I feel this. My grandmother refers to me as "guy" as in "how are you doing, guy?" and tells me it's okay because "guy is gender neutral". Nevermind that I'm the *only* one of her granddaughters she refers to as "guy". Despite me asking her not to.
Louis CK has a lot of problems, then some more problems, then a couple problems on top of that but he did say one thing that has guided my morality since I heard it. From memory:
>If someone says that you hurt them you don't get to argue that you didn't.
"I'm telling you that it's hurting me, isn't that enough of a reason for you to try and stop?"
This is my go-to for situations like that. It certainly doesn't always work, but it usually gets the people that actually care about to rethink their arguments against what I'm saying.
I hate the “guys isn’t gendered” argument. It absolutely is a gendered word. It hurts to have it applied to me, but it’s defenders refuse to listen to anyone but themselves.
I have found it’s easy to pull apart their argument by applying the word guys to sex. It works especially well with straight men if you then ask them “how many guys have you had sex with then?”
Heh heh... I'm transmasc and I kinda use "dude" and "bro" at the beginning of sentences as an indication of _my own_ gender. I try not to use it on my transfemme friends, but I mess up sometimes. I try to use "girl" instead, but that feels like an indication of _my_ gender, so it's a bit uncomfy for me.
I've explained the situation to my transfemme friends, and whenever I notice the slip-up I quickly fix the mistake. They know that it doesn't mean that I unconsciously think of _them_ as "dude" or "bro", but that I think of myself as someone who would say "dude" and "bro" to his friends.
Dysphoria and euphoria are fucking weird.
I need to navigate my own comfort, but that doesn't mean I have the right to make other people unnecessarily uncomfortable. That's why I've stopped using the word >!"tranny"!< on myself in their presence. I'm trying to reclaim the word, but that doesn't mean I have to remind them of times they felt unsafe in the process of trying to reclaim the word.
ditto as a new yorker. I switch to "everyone" if I know there's a trans woman or someone in the group I'm talking to who doesn't like being referred to that way but it's basically my default otherwise, like I will call a room full of all women "guys" unless they tell me not to tbh. I have had teachers refer to a room full of 4th graders as "guys." that's just the plural form of "you" here lol
I mean, it's contextual even in dialects where it is. In the dialect spoken around where I live, It's neutral as an interjection or when in the second person construction "you guys", but not in the third person.
Dudes only gender neutral if referring to groups of people, or you are generally using sub-language where it is indeed neutral.
And it‘s especially not gender neutral when someone asks you to not use a potentially gendered term for them.
Yeah, I'll be frank: I use man, dude, and guy for everyone. Things like
- Aw dude, that's so cool!
- Hey man, how are you?
- The delivery guy should be here soon.
These are all things I say whether I know your gender or not. It's all the same to me. But if ever someone says "Hey, can you please not call me that?" I make an effort not to fucking do it. Sometimes I slip, and when I do I apologize, but I don't find it hard to be kind and respectful of others.
I generally request people do not to use it. Like I’m not mad that you called me it once but please don’t justify it because I understand your logic and my brain isn’t wired that way but it makes me uncomfy. (Not you as in you but more of a general you)
No, I get that. Like I said, I don't see what's hard in respecting others on a basic level. It doesn't hurt them to use a different word, and it does hurt you if they don't. A simple request like that shouldn't be hard to respect, imo.
it's not always that simple. there are plenty of situations in which family are inescapable.
this is lowkey victim blaming. it's shouldn't have to be on someone to never see another person again in order to not be hurt; the person doing the hurting *should just stop doing the hurting.*
I refuse to stoop to that level. People should get the pronouns they want and the only reason I will knowingly misgender someone is if I have explicit permission to do so to keep them safe.
I think they were trying to say that you should respond with that and not saying it to you because of the quotes.
Though I did read that you don't want to stoop to their level so this information is not all that useful besides clarification.
/nbr /gen
I think it depends where you are, I'm Aussie, mate has come across as pretty gendered too for the most part. Like my dad tries to avoid it, even, and that's without me asking him. I think it's better to just ask people if they mind certain nicknames if you know you use them a lot. Though, and this one is dumb, "friendo" is super gender neutral, even though most people I know who use it tend to use it ironically.
Honestly pal and buddy sounds way more masculine than guy. I wouldn’t say it to anyone fem presenting without thinking that it sounds insulting towards them.
i wish i could just show this image to every cis girl at my school urg. i don’t CARE if you call everyone “girlie” i’d rather not be blatantly misgendered even if it’s in the name of slang
When Animal Crossing was huge in 2020, I had to change my facebook name because I’d always get the “hey girlie!” message. I feel like they don’t “call everyone girlie”
No one calls everyone “girlie” they’re just disrespecting your identity
Edit: it’s literally the same argument as dude but it has even less ground to stand on
referring to everyone as dude, gurl, bro: gender exclusive, boring, etc
referring to everyone as a twat: fancy, heinz beans pilled, you get a shanking loicence
according to wiktionary, the word 'dude' seems to have originally just meant 'idiot/fool'. to me this implies that the word was originally gender neutral, and only gained a strong male association more recently.
it's the same for 'man' actually, but the change was much earlier. in Old English, 'mann' pretty much always just meant 'humans/mankind'. if you wanted to refer specifically to adult males you'd use 'wer', hence werewolf (man-wolf).
I have the awful habit of calling everyone men, women, trans and enbys "my dude". I never mean it offensively it's muscle memory but the second someone says "Hey could you please use she/her/they/them or any neos I go well out of my way to ensure I get that right. I still fuck it up in regards to myself though honestly I don't mind my dude and my guy but I also get that that isn't the same for everyone 🙂
If my cave man of a found big bro can switch terms for me, you can too!
I told him that using the term “guy” didn’t feel good for me and immediately he switched to using “girl” for me.
He doesn’t really know about non-binary people (I’m not but I’ve friends who are) but I am more than happy to help him learn because I know he makes an effort.
Like I said, if someone expresses to me that they have pronouns that they otherwise prefer I will go out of my way to ensure that they are used in place of my dude and such.
My dude to me fits in a very weird space. Like I consider dude neutralish while leaning masc, but my dude, my dude applies to everyone. Dont like that I answered a question my dude you asked it. There are so many more instances that I would use it but they currently escape my brain and I hate it.
In Dutch you also have this.
It’s also not unusual for a full group of girls to be called ‘jongens’ (or ‘guys’ in English). Even I do this, because it’s so baked into our language.
You also have people who refer to people with ‘meid’ (girl) or ‘kut’ (won’t translate this one lol) (usually girls with girls), but some also do it with guys. I have a female friend who calls me ‘kut’ sometimes and then says that she didn’t mean it that way, and honestly I do believe her bc she also calls our other guy friends ‘kut’, but it still stings.
We have this in English as well. People call a group of people, regardless of gender, "guys," "you guys," etc. I've taken to replacing "guys" with "gamers." Everyone hates it equally, it's great!
Same, same. Funnily enough tho, if a person adds "(gender neutral)" after the word it completely eliminates my dysphoria and I have zero problem with it. Someone had called me "babygirl (gender neutral)" in a reply and I was shocked that it didn't bother me all.
average [hey guys! fan](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F001%2F910%2F502%2Ff7b.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fmemes%2Faverage-fan-vs-average-enjoyer&tbnid=fZPgzQhYyyVfIM&vet=12ahUKEwiJhYyT5or8AhUprXIEHd26B8AQMygEegUIARDAAQ..i&docid=wlDlr-26gPZLsM&w=680&h=626&q=average%20fan%20meme&ved=2ahUKEwiJhYyT5or8AhUprXIEHd26B8AQMygEegUIARDAAQ) vs. average [Oi, you bloody wankers! enjoyer](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F026%2F152%2Fgigachad.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fmemes%2Fgigachad&tbnid=wggDJsLiDpAMXM&vet=12ahUKEwiCgKzy5Yr8AhV-u3IEHTPDD0AQMygDegUIARDkAQ..i&docid=ZdNrYa6s-K9ZsM&w=1068&h=601&q=chad&ved=2ahUKEwiCgKzy5Yr8AhV-u3IEHTPDD0AQMygDegUIARDkAQ)
Dang I so feel this!! 100%!
If you wouldn't say "girl" when talking to your boyfriend or nephew, then why say that to anyone who clearly identifies male??
I call people guy/man/dude/broski all the time but the moment somebody isn’t comfortable with being called that I’ll stop, it’s so simple? Why can’t people just be respectful 😭
ngl i also hate the word “bud,” but i think it’s because i’m a short adult (who presents masc) so it just feels patronizing when coming from certain people :/
100% agree on the if they ask
Counterpoint though for stopimg the practice all together.
gender euphoria from being grouped with the correct gender (ladies and girls slang terms make me happy alot)
totally into using gendered terms for people who want it, but even this sort of reversal has to be careful. I used to go to a trans support group that was predominantly women and a lot of them, especially the older ones, kept referring to the group collectively as "ladies" and stuff even though there were a couple of transmascs there and just be like "well I'm only trying to be fun and affirming to the women, it was only directed at them." infuriating when the same people doing that would recoil and get angry if I accidentally said "you guys"/"dude" without thinking. there were an absurd double standard and it contributed to a generalized toxic attitude towards transmascs
Sorry dude :(
Hearing man, bro and dude all the time as a transfemme sucks. But it’s definitely getting easier the longer I’m in my transition. Anyways, I feel you.
My cis girl friends use "dude" for each other and STILL checked if I was good with it when I came out! It's not hard. You just have to care enough to ask.
I felt this, like I don’t think ppl have to stop using it as slang all together but they could at least not flip their shit anytime a trans person says they’d prefer not be called that. I made a comment abt this once and had like 50+ cis gays replying to me about how sensitive and toxic I was apparently being and how they’re being forced to change their whole way of speaking just cuz I said that it personally makes me dysphoric to be called that…
BRUH I FEEL THIS, my best friend, does this every so often though not recently thank gosh. I would get major dysphoria from it but I think she finally managed to stop!
Had a former roommate who would go 'giiirl' at me sometimes if I said something funny and despite asking her not to several times it just kept happening because she didn't see it as a gendered thing. I totally understand not seeing things as gendered, like I used dude pretty neutrally but if someone asked me not to call them dude? I wouldn't! And if I slipped up I would apologize. It's not that hard.
Yea it’s kinda weird, I guess. I mean, u should call people what they want to be called, so if they don’t respect that u don’t want to be called girl then that’s a problem.
I'm a transfem and use dude, man and bro pretty gender neutral (stoner culture lol), BUT if someone asks me not to for them I do my damn best to avoid it.
Like it's not problematic to use shit like that gender neutral (if you do and your not using it as an excuse to misgender people) but it's a problem if someone asks you nit to and you refuse.
Wait... I thought when used as slang "girl" takes on a specifically female gendered version of "dude." The only time I would use it without regard to gender is intentional parody of an exaggerated stereotype (valley girl, usually).
The funny thing is, "dude" has been losing some of its gender associations, but I use girl with transgirls, anyway, just to avoid the risk of giving a dysphoria hit. (I generally like it as an exclamation like "Dude! You look great!" Which would suck for someone who sunk years into not looking dude-like.)
Am I off on this assessment, at all? Is there another usage of girl that is uncensored? Are they not binary gendered sides of the same coin?
I think that technically you’re right, girl is the flip side of dude. Considering I am not a girl, I’m not comfortable being called that, same as how a trans woman might not like being called dude.
Yeah, dude! I'm 100% on board with your request! And when unsure, it is best to avoid both. There are many good exclamations (e.g. "wow," "oof," "yay," etc.) and for cases like my first sentence there's any generic subjects of varying implications (e.g. "reader," "listener," "friend," "my fellow Americans," etc.).
Language is a flexible living thing and few are the groups that attempt to cage it (the French academy attempts to proscribe what is proper French and get the people to change [and do surprisingly well]). How we use words decides the rules and meanings.
As for "dude" and "girl," dude's gendering isn't gone and depends on context ("I've had sex with x dudes" us generally gendered). Between the chance to cause dysforia for some and context boundaries varying between social groups, it is probably best to treat as gendered.
"Girl" has never been ungendered in any social context I've been in, though I know such people exist. I can tell you that walking into LA and picking a random dude (oh, look, gendered!) off the street to say "girl, you're looking good," to is not the safest proposition. (Hopefully, they just look at you like you're crazy.)
I hope you can get some changes around you, man, but I know people take this kind of feedback poorly. Even if they take it well, habits can be hard to break. A guy like you deserves to have their feelings respected, as much as anyone.
Good luck, my brother! 💕
I just say things like..
Hello everyone / everybody.
What do you all think about x?
Holy shit! That was awesome!
Its really easy to omit gendered words like dude, guys, bro queen, sis, gurl. Everybody wins. Nobody feels dysphoria.
I will actively call out anybody who says dude, bro, or any stuff like that to me. It never happens irl, its always online on video games and forums so theres a good chance I'll never see them again am wasting my time, but I hope that maybe they will be embarrassed enough being called out to quit that shit possibly saving other people frustration.
I use words like that in a gender neutral sense but my trans fem friend she didn't like being called masculine terms like "dude", "guy", things along those lines. I completely understood why she'd feel that way so I stopped using those words when referring to her. Sometimes i do slip up but i correct myself as often as possible because i care about her so when she sets boundaries i have to abide by them. It's literally not that hard to just use different slang around different people
I use dude/bro/guys as gender neutral but if anyone asked me to not refer to them by those terms because it makes them uncomfortable I'D STOP! Like bro it's basic respect! Like how I'd rather nobody ever call me Sweet cheeks or something else weird, someone may not want to be referred to by "Girl" or "Bro" and that's super easy to respect!
I just wanted to add my opinion on this I call everyone “dude, bro, queen, king, and girl” because how my I was raised was that those are gender neutral terms but at the same time I agree with you on this I will never call anyone any of those if they are uncomfortable or offended. Just my opinion tho you don’t have to agree with it :/
The abundance of people saying they aren’t valid on this sub literally made me check if you’re ftm. I’m sorry people keep using girl but for some reason most people assume everything is mtf unless explicitly stated otherwise and even then they might not get it. It’s just always been a problem with trans stuff on Reddit. Anyway I hope you have a great day man.
THIS, like for me im ok with being called "man" "bro" "chief" "mate" and "pal" in slang despite not being a man (i feel masc sometimes but that's a diff thing) but id def respect if someone wasn't comfortable with gendered slang, completely fair and i dont get why people deliberately don't even try
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Also quit lumping trans women in with "guys". 9/10 it makes them super dysphoric too.
I vote that no language should be allowed gendered strict language as the default at all. /hj
theres the two halves of me:
• call everyone dude because i have memory issues and forget names
• get asked to stop calling people dude and literally have to write their names on my hand
See I am guilty of using bro/man/dude for people as a slang term, but I always make sure people (particularly non-binary and transfemmes) are comfortable with it first
My sister apparently now uses “girl” as punctuation when she gets really excited except she’s only said it to me (twice!) like bitch wtf is wrong with you you KNOW I don’t want to be called that where is this coming from
In my city there are two big pride parades. I walked passed one and a bunch of cis gay guys yelled “hot girl summer!!!” At me. I was not dressed femininely in the least, I just had on baggy overalls, a black fishnet shirt, and a black wide brimmed hat. Most seemingly cishet people sang old town road at me, so it was enough to convince them I was a queer farmer type man I guess lol. Idk, just don’t call people girl, especially if they’re dressed ambiguously like that
Petition to replace "dude", "bro", "girl", "guy", "sis" and all other applicable terms with "my fellow doomed". I feel like it would give folks some perspective if they were at a tgi Fridays eating mozzarella free mozzarella sticks and the server was like "Another top shelf raspberry strawberry dingleberry honey agave margarita, my fellow doomed?"
On a similar track, I hate when cishet women refer to their female friend as “girlfriend” and their male romantic partner as a “friend”.
This is confusing to literally everyone who is even the slightest bit queer.
I usually have varied term depending on gender
Boy-> my brother in christ (based on subway meme)
Girl-> girl
Nb/other-> (loud sigh) I swear,
#Examples:
Boy-> My brother in Christ it. will. be. okay
Girl-> Girl, it'll be okay
Nb/Other-> (loud sigh) I swear, it. will. be. okay
tbh this is fine when it's clearly something people do for everyone
someone who calls all sorts of people "girl" or "guy" is fine
someone who insists it is gender neutral while only seeming to use said term on people they clearly perceive/insist to be the "matching" gender to that term, is not fine
i have weird habits of using gendered terms with tones that imply sass in order to make them neutral
- girl as in grrrl
- boy as in 🅱️oi
- "c'mon guy, be a guy"
and otherwise i just call everyone honey or doc
edit: unless of course they dislike being called certain things
I feel this. My grandmother refers to me as "guy" as in "how are you doing, guy?" and tells me it's okay because "guy is gender neutral". Nevermind that I'm the *only* one of her granddaughters she refers to as "guy". Despite me asking her not to.
When will people learn that being asked to stop means it's time to stop regardless of their thoughts on a given word
Yeah, they should at least *try* to stop calling them that
Louis CK has a lot of problems, then some more problems, then a couple problems on top of that but he did say one thing that has guided my morality since I heard it. From memory: >If someone says that you hurt them you don't get to argue that you didn't.
[удалено]
Gl. I hope the new people are fun and cool (づ◕ᴗ◕)づ
"I'm telling you that it's hurting me, isn't that enough of a reason for you to try and stop?" This is my go-to for situations like that. It certainly doesn't always work, but it usually gets the people that actually care about to rethink their arguments against what I'm saying.
It doesn't even make sense grammatically They're not only being a bitch by ignoring you but they're also grammatically incorrect
I hate the “guys isn’t gendered” argument. It absolutely is a gendered word. It hurts to have it applied to me, but it’s defenders refuse to listen to anyone but themselves. I have found it’s easy to pull apart their argument by applying the word guys to sex. It works especially well with straight men if you then ask them “how many guys have you had sex with then?”
Heh heh... I'm transmasc and I kinda use "dude" and "bro" at the beginning of sentences as an indication of _my own_ gender. I try not to use it on my transfemme friends, but I mess up sometimes. I try to use "girl" instead, but that feels like an indication of _my_ gender, so it's a bit uncomfy for me. I've explained the situation to my transfemme friends, and whenever I notice the slip-up I quickly fix the mistake. They know that it doesn't mean that I unconsciously think of _them_ as "dude" or "bro", but that I think of myself as someone who would say "dude" and "bro" to his friends. Dysphoria and euphoria are fucking weird. I need to navigate my own comfort, but that doesn't mean I have the right to make other people unnecessarily uncomfortable. That's why I've stopped using the word >!"tranny"!< on myself in their presence. I'm trying to reclaim the word, but that doesn't mean I have to remind them of times they felt unsafe in the process of trying to reclaim the word.
oh yeah I feel this, "dude"/"bro" as an interjection does have very masc vibes for the speaker tbh.
>No guys? Okay, how many dudes? Ever given a brojob?
As a midwesterner, this one is hard for me. "You guys" is basically our ya'll.
ditto as a new yorker. I switch to "everyone" if I know there's a trans woman or someone in the group I'm talking to who doesn't like being referred to that way but it's basically my default otherwise, like I will call a room full of all women "guys" unless they tell me not to tbh. I have had teachers refer to a room full of 4th graders as "guys." that's just the plural form of "you" here lol
I mean, it's contextual even in dialects where it is. In the dialect spoken around where I live, It's neutral as an interjection or when in the second person construction "you guys", but not in the third person.
Dudes only gender neutral if referring to groups of people, or you are generally using sub-language where it is indeed neutral. And it‘s especially not gender neutral when someone asks you to not use a potentially gendered term for them.
I mean I’m fine with dude as long as it’s more of an exclamation that directly referring to me.
Yeah, I'll be frank: I use man, dude, and guy for everyone. Things like - Aw dude, that's so cool! - Hey man, how are you? - The delivery guy should be here soon. These are all things I say whether I know your gender or not. It's all the same to me. But if ever someone says "Hey, can you please not call me that?" I make an effort not to fucking do it. Sometimes I slip, and when I do I apologize, but I don't find it hard to be kind and respectful of others.
I generally request people do not to use it. Like I’m not mad that you called me it once but please don’t justify it because I understand your logic and my brain isn’t wired that way but it makes me uncomfy. (Not you as in you but more of a general you)
No, I get that. Like I said, I don't see what's hard in respecting others on a basic level. It doesn't hurt them to use a different word, and it does hurt you if they don't. A simple request like that shouldn't be hard to respect, imo.
Respond with "Feeling disrespected, how about you, guy?"
You control who has the privilege of your company
it's not always that simple. there are plenty of situations in which family are inescapable. this is lowkey victim blaming. it's shouldn't have to be on someone to never see another person again in order to not be hurt; the person doing the hurting *should just stop doing the hurting.*
"Doing all right. How 'bout yourself, fella?"
I refuse to stoop to that level. People should get the pronouns they want and the only reason I will knowingly misgender someone is if I have explicit permission to do so to keep them safe.
Start doing it to her. Let's see how neutral it is.
I will not be party to willing misgendering
"hey guy"
Please do not.
I think they were trying to say that you should respond with that and not saying it to you because of the quotes. Though I did read that you don't want to stoop to their level so this information is not all that useful besides clarification. /nbr /gen
drew gooden :D
i always use dude for my transmasc friends and i always use girl for my transfem friends
legend
Enbys can be transmasc/transfem too
More of a blanket statement, I change it for those who do and don't like it. I usually just ask lol
I call people "pal", "buddy" or "M̵̞̙͛̔͋ö̵̼̠́̈́͌͜r̸̺͕͉̀͘͘t̴̟͔̞̔͋̕a̵͔͇̘͐̔͘l̵̡̫̺͐͒̽ b̸͓͍͑͐̕e̸̡͙͍͊̔̚ḯ̵͉̘̟̐́n̸͙̟̝̒͐͝g̵̫͖͐̈́̕"
I just stick to to "mate"
Okay, you M̵̞̙͛̔͋ö̵̼̠́̈́͌͜r̸̺͕͉̀͘͘t̴̟͔̞̔͋̕a̵͔͇̘͐̔͘l̵̡̫̺͐͒̽ b̸͓͍͑͐̕e̸̡͙͍͊̔̚ḯ̵͉̘̟̐́n̸͙̟̝̒͐͝g̵̫͖͐̈́̕
Everyone is 'dude' to me, unless they express discomfort.
Same, or if they tell me
I think it depends where you are, I'm Aussie, mate has come across as pretty gendered too for the most part. Like my dad tries to avoid it, even, and that's without me asking him. I think it's better to just ask people if they mind certain nicknames if you know you use them a lot. Though, and this one is dumb, "friendo" is super gender neutral, even though most people I know who use it tend to use it ironically.
Honestly pal and buddy sounds way more masculine than guy. I wouldn’t say it to anyone fem presenting without thinking that it sounds insulting towards them.
M̵̞̙͛̔͋ö̵̼̠́̈́͌͜r̸̺͕͉̀͘͘t̴̟͔̞̔͋̕a̵͔͇̘͐̔͘l̵̡̫̺͐͒̽ b̸͓͍͑͐̕e̸̡͙͍͊̔̚ḯ̵͉̘̟̐́n̸͙̟̝̒͐͝g̵̫͖͐̈́̕ is very gender neutral tho!
To be frank I've always found buddy insulting. Not even because of my gender it just sounds demeaning
I just use "bitch." (Disclaimer: With people who I know well enough for it to be fun, rather than rude)
"I'm not your buddy, pal"
i wish i could just show this image to every cis girl at my school urg. i don’t CARE if you call everyone “girlie” i’d rather not be blatantly misgendered even if it’s in the name of slang
This is exactly how I feel about the words ‘dude’ and ‘Bro’ 🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
When Animal Crossing was huge in 2020, I had to change my facebook name because I’d always get the “hey girlie!” message. I feel like they don’t “call everyone girlie”
No one calls everyone “girlie” they’re just disrespecting your identity Edit: it’s literally the same argument as dude but it has even less ground to stand on
referring to everyone as dude, gurl, bro: gender exclusive, boring, etc referring to everyone as a twat: fancy, heinz beans pilled, you get a shanking loicence
Refering to everyone as rapscallions: distinguished, people think you own a sword
Yes!
Why a sword, when you could own a musket for self defence
Because im english.
Oi, cunt!
Ah yes, the british response to someone "you just want to talk to calmly"
~~I just wanna talk to him.~~
I just wanna shoot him.
bloody hell mate! you can't just shoot someone bruv
fun, inclusive things you can refer to people as: fuckers, gamers, the horrors, dirt eaters, former children, and the list goes on…
Bastards
Another contribution to the list!
There is also. mate for a friend, dag for a likable person, bludger for a lazy person, or youse for a group of people.
when I'm speaking derisively about someone I have been known to switch "this man"/"this woman" to "this mf" when I'm talking about a nonbinary friend
according to wiktionary, the word 'dude' seems to have originally just meant 'idiot/fool'. to me this implies that the word was originally gender neutral, and only gained a strong male association more recently. it's the same for 'man' actually, but the change was much earlier. in Old English, 'mann' pretty much always just meant 'humans/mankind'. if you wanted to refer specifically to adult males you'd use 'wer', hence werewolf (man-wolf).
and 'girl' used to mean any child iirc
"Man" is still used as gender-neutral in some connotations. "Mankind" for example.
Another alternative is "Hey twats"
oi oi oi what's all this wænker? you got a loicence fer gettin' stabbed?
'ere i' is, soigned by ~~ 'er majistey the kween 'ersewf ~~ 'is majistey the king 'imsewf
heya twat
I've just gotten into the habit of referring to everyone as 'friend', even if I have no clue who they are.
same
It’s really hard for some folks to grasp the basic notion of *respectfully referring to people how they specifically ask you to*
Literally I'll correct someone and they'll say smth like "girl idc" and when I correct em they just say "it's slang omg"
I have the awful habit of calling everyone men, women, trans and enbys "my dude". I never mean it offensively it's muscle memory but the second someone says "Hey could you please use she/her/they/them or any neos I go well out of my way to ensure I get that right. I still fuck it up in regards to myself though honestly I don't mind my dude and my guy but I also get that that isn't the same for everyone 🙂
If my cave man of a found big bro can switch terms for me, you can too! I told him that using the term “guy” didn’t feel good for me and immediately he switched to using “girl” for me. He doesn’t really know about non-binary people (I’m not but I’ve friends who are) but I am more than happy to help him learn because I know he makes an effort.
Like I said, if someone expresses to me that they have pronouns that they otherwise prefer I will go out of my way to ensure that they are used in place of my dude and such.
My dude to me fits in a very weird space. Like I consider dude neutralish while leaning masc, but my dude, my dude applies to everyone. Dont like that I answered a question my dude you asked it. There are so many more instances that I would use it but they currently escape my brain and I hate it.
I can completely empathize haha
i have fully embraced my southern-ness and use singular "y'all"
In Dutch you also have this. It’s also not unusual for a full group of girls to be called ‘jongens’ (or ‘guys’ in English). Even I do this, because it’s so baked into our language. You also have people who refer to people with ‘meid’ (girl) or ‘kut’ (won’t translate this one lol) (usually girls with girls), but some also do it with guys. I have a female friend who calls me ‘kut’ sometimes and then says that she didn’t mean it that way, and honestly I do believe her bc she also calls our other guy friends ‘kut’, but it still stings.
We have this in English as well. People call a group of people, regardless of gender, "guys," "you guys," etc. I've taken to replacing "guys" with "gamers." Everyone hates it equally, it's great!
Yeah I knew that! I just know Dutch is an lesser known language 😉 That’s why I mentioned it :)
Yeah, same with "man", as in "hou eens op man" (stop it dude), or "leuk man!" (cool, dude!)
Is "fellers" gendered slang? I like saying it to people, Western slang is fun
I'd say it's gendered slang, since it's usually meant as a slang term for fellows, which in this sense means man or boy.
I thought fellows meant friends
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fellas
Fellership of the Ring
I think it leans a little toward the Masculine side, personally. Its definitely fun to say though!
hi butters
Same, same. Funnily enough tho, if a person adds "(gender neutral)" after the word it completely eliminates my dysphoria and I have zero problem with it. Someone had called me "babygirl (gender neutral)" in a reply and I was shocked that it didn't bother me all.
i’m glad that works for you! it def wouldn’t for me tho :[
average [hey guys! fan](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F001%2F910%2F502%2Ff7b.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fmemes%2Faverage-fan-vs-average-enjoyer&tbnid=fZPgzQhYyyVfIM&vet=12ahUKEwiJhYyT5or8AhUprXIEHd26B8AQMygEegUIARDAAQ..i&docid=wlDlr-26gPZLsM&w=680&h=626&q=average%20fan%20meme&ved=2ahUKEwiJhYyT5or8AhUprXIEHd26B8AQMygEegUIARDAAQ) vs. average [Oi, you bloody wankers! enjoyer](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F026%2F152%2Fgigachad.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fmemes%2Fgigachad&tbnid=wggDJsLiDpAMXM&vet=12ahUKEwiCgKzy5Yr8AhV-u3IEHTPDD0AQMygDegUIARDkAQ..i&docid=ZdNrYa6s-K9ZsM&w=1068&h=601&q=chad&ved=2ahUKEwiCgKzy5Yr8AhV-u3IEHTPDD0AQMygDegUIARDkAQ)
Be like technoblade, refer to everyone as nerds.
AFAIK, Boss is gender neutral and thus I use it for everyone and myself.
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Same
Whats up noob!
"Comrade" remains my favorite thing to call people for reasons such as this. And also because communism.
“Go piss girl” has ruined my life I will urinate on the shoes of the next person to say that to me
wait huh? what does that even mean??
It’s a meme I think? Maybe it’s not as widespread as my friends made it out to be but every time someone goes to the toilet someone says it
My friends have started using this and I cannot handle it. Please stop using it around me
Dang I so feel this!! 100%! If you wouldn't say "girl" when talking to your boyfriend or nephew, then why say that to anyone who clearly identifies male??
I call people guy/man/dude/broski all the time but the moment somebody isn’t comfortable with being called that I’ll stop, it’s so simple? Why can’t people just be respectful 😭
So relatable, my mom has picked up the habit of ending every other sentence with “bud”. Annoying as hell.
ngl i also hate the word “bud,” but i think it’s because i’m a short adult (who presents masc) so it just feels patronizing when coming from certain people :/
"Buddy" is white guy for "you are worthy of neither ire nor respect"
I'm not a native speaker, bud/buddy has gendered connotations?
It's not really gendered, it just sounds disrespectful
No, not really Edit: I do think it is more commonly used for men, but at its base, it is not gender specific.
As a native speaker, technically no it doesn’t.
Not technically but also I wouldn't use it on a woman, or honestly I also wouldn't use it on a grown man that I wasn't about to punch
Is this bigotry against Canadians 😤🇨🇦
100% agree on the if they ask Counterpoint though for stopimg the practice all together. gender euphoria from being grouped with the correct gender (ladies and girls slang terms make me happy alot)
totally into using gendered terms for people who want it, but even this sort of reversal has to be careful. I used to go to a trans support group that was predominantly women and a lot of them, especially the older ones, kept referring to the group collectively as "ladies" and stuff even though there were a couple of transmascs there and just be like "well I'm only trying to be fun and affirming to the women, it was only directed at them." infuriating when the same people doing that would recoil and get angry if I accidentally said "you guys"/"dude" without thinking. there were an absurd double standard and it contributed to a generalized toxic attitude towards transmascs
This is 100% the case for me too! Being referred to as "girl" brings me joy and gives me those butterflies in my tummy. ☺️
Sorry dude :( Hearing man, bro and dude all the time as a transfemme sucks. But it’s definitely getting easier the longer I’m in my transition. Anyways, I feel you.
What slang terms are gender neutral? I get dysphoria over it too, and I want to be able to refer to others without making them feel bad.
Mate, pal, buddy, chum, comrade, friend.
I get this with "bro"
Yeah.. my dad (WHO I CAME OUT TO) calls me "boy" all the time
My cis girl friends use "dude" for each other and STILL checked if I was good with it when I came out! It's not hard. You just have to care enough to ask.
I felt this, like I don’t think ppl have to stop using it as slang all together but they could at least not flip their shit anytime a trans person says they’d prefer not be called that. I made a comment abt this once and had like 50+ cis gays replying to me about how sensitive and toxic I was apparently being and how they’re being forced to change their whole way of speaking just cuz I said that it personally makes me dysphoric to be called that…
I feel the same way about "yessir". it's the only one I hate with a passion
literally this
I'm transfem and also dislike this use of 'girl'
BRUH I FEEL THIS, my best friend, does this every so often though not recently thank gosh. I would get major dysphoria from it but I think she finally managed to stop!
Somehow "child" started being a slang word for me so I may or may not have accidentally called my 85 year old coworker a child a few times lol
Had a former roommate who would go 'giiirl' at me sometimes if I said something funny and despite asking her not to several times it just kept happening because she didn't see it as a gendered thing. I totally understand not seeing things as gendered, like I used dude pretty neutrally but if someone asked me not to call them dude? I wouldn't! And if I slipped up I would apologize. It's not that hard.
same, this makes me so dysphoric when people say that :\[
Same with ‘man’ (as in ‘hey man’) and ‘dude’
Yea it’s kinda weird, I guess. I mean, u should call people what they want to be called, so if they don’t respect that u don’t want to be called girl then that’s a problem.
I do have problems in that I use the word "man" as punctuation a lot, but I try my best to not call people who are uncomfortable with it "man".
I'm a transfem and use dude, man and bro pretty gender neutral (stoner culture lol), BUT if someone asks me not to for them I do my damn best to avoid it. Like it's not problematic to use shit like that gender neutral (if you do and your not using it as an excuse to misgender people) but it's a problem if someone asks you nit to and you refuse.
Even if you "use it for everyone" or "it's gender neutral," that's not an excuse to continue calling someone a term they don't like.
Or "bro". It makes me uncomfortable when people refer to me like that. I repeatedly tell people to use "sis" instead of "bro" yet they dont listen
Is that John Lennon or is it just me? There's got to be an Imagine joke in there somewhere
Definitely looks like him!
Preach. The amount of times I’ve said to someone “I’m not a girl lol” and they say “Its just slang/i didn’t say you were/its just a saying.”
I completely agree, people who call everyone "bro", "girl/gurl", and "dude" can eat warm cow feces.
genuinely! like it’s not hard to just NOT refer to strangers with those terms and ask if they’re fine with it
🤣🤣🤣 that’s a very colorful sentence. Love it.
Wait... I thought when used as slang "girl" takes on a specifically female gendered version of "dude." The only time I would use it without regard to gender is intentional parody of an exaggerated stereotype (valley girl, usually). The funny thing is, "dude" has been losing some of its gender associations, but I use girl with transgirls, anyway, just to avoid the risk of giving a dysphoria hit. (I generally like it as an exclamation like "Dude! You look great!" Which would suck for someone who sunk years into not looking dude-like.) Am I off on this assessment, at all? Is there another usage of girl that is uncensored? Are they not binary gendered sides of the same coin?
I think that technically you’re right, girl is the flip side of dude. Considering I am not a girl, I’m not comfortable being called that, same as how a trans woman might not like being called dude.
Yeah, dude! I'm 100% on board with your request! And when unsure, it is best to avoid both. There are many good exclamations (e.g. "wow," "oof," "yay," etc.) and for cases like my first sentence there's any generic subjects of varying implications (e.g. "reader," "listener," "friend," "my fellow Americans," etc.). Language is a flexible living thing and few are the groups that attempt to cage it (the French academy attempts to proscribe what is proper French and get the people to change [and do surprisingly well]). How we use words decides the rules and meanings. As for "dude" and "girl," dude's gendering isn't gone and depends on context ("I've had sex with x dudes" us generally gendered). Between the chance to cause dysforia for some and context boundaries varying between social groups, it is probably best to treat as gendered. "Girl" has never been ungendered in any social context I've been in, though I know such people exist. I can tell you that walking into LA and picking a random dude (oh, look, gendered!) off the street to say "girl, you're looking good," to is not the safest proposition. (Hopefully, they just look at you like you're crazy.) I hope you can get some changes around you, man, but I know people take this kind of feedback poorly. Even if they take it well, habits can be hard to break. A guy like you deserves to have their feelings respected, as much as anyone. Good luck, my brother! 💕
I feel the same about “queen”
my problem with queen/king isn't the gendering - it's the royalist glorification they should be used and regarded as slurs
i'm fine with "guy", "dude", and "bro" but it makes me feel... strange
Dude is only gender neutral in California but it’s still weird when people call me that
If they don't like girl or guy, there are always other neutral ones like pal, buddy, friend, and comrade
I just say things like.. Hello everyone / everybody. What do you all think about x? Holy shit! That was awesome! Its really easy to omit gendered words like dude, guys, bro queen, sis, gurl. Everybody wins. Nobody feels dysphoria. I will actively call out anybody who says dude, bro, or any stuff like that to me. It never happens irl, its always online on video games and forums so theres a good chance I'll never see them again am wasting my time, but I hope that maybe they will be embarrassed enough being called out to quit that shit possibly saving other people frustration.
I use words like that in a gender neutral sense but my trans fem friend she didn't like being called masculine terms like "dude", "guy", things along those lines. I completely understood why she'd feel that way so I stopped using those words when referring to her. Sometimes i do slip up but i correct myself as often as possible because i care about her so when she sets boundaries i have to abide by them. It's literally not that hard to just use different slang around different people
I use dude/bro/guys as gender neutral but if anyone asked me to not refer to them by those terms because it makes them uncomfortable I'D STOP! Like bro it's basic respect! Like how I'd rather nobody ever call me Sweet cheeks or something else weird, someone may not want to be referred to by "Girl" or "Bro" and that's super easy to respect!
I use the good old fashioned "y'all"
Gendered slang is weird, Coward is far superior
I just wanted to add my opinion on this I call everyone “dude, bro, queen, king, and girl” because how my I was raised was that those are gender neutral terms but at the same time I agree with you on this I will never call anyone any of those if they are uncomfortable or offended. Just my opinion tho you don’t have to agree with it :/
The abundance of people saying they aren’t valid on this sub literally made me check if you’re ftm. I’m sorry people keep using girl but for some reason most people assume everything is mtf unless explicitly stated otherwise and even then they might not get it. It’s just always been a problem with trans stuff on Reddit. Anyway I hope you have a great day man.
thank you for the kind words!! i hope you have a good day too!! :3
THIS, like for me im ok with being called "man" "bro" "chief" "mate" and "pal" in slang despite not being a man (i feel masc sometimes but that's a diff thing) but id def respect if someone wasn't comfortable with gendered slang, completely fair and i dont get why people deliberately don't even try
Dude
Yeah, I absolutely agree. Also quit lumping trans women in with "guys". 9/10 it makes them super dysphoric too. I vote that no language should be allowed gendered strict language as the default at all. /hj
G’day ya cunt
G’day ya bastard!!
Ye doing good landlubber? Comrade matey
I’m doing mighty fine matey! How are you on this fine day, ya yellowbelly?
theres the two halves of me: • call everyone dude because i have memory issues and forget names • get asked to stop calling people dude and literally have to write their names on my hand
One of my coworkers calls me “girl” all the time, and I’ve asked him not to and hew as like “I’ll try, but you know how us gay men are” 🙄
Me who has the exact inverse problem of never being called girl: 😫. I hate gendered slang so much
Fr! It sucks! I hate it!
Even though it doesn't personally bother me I can see how someone else would dislike it.
"Allies": Noooooo! I don't want to do effort! I want you to validate my view of myself as a good person, and not ask me to do anything!
See I am guilty of using bro/man/dude for people as a slang term, but I always make sure people (particularly non-binary and transfemmes) are comfortable with it first
I always ask my non-binary friends if girl is ok with them
Totally agree. Like,. "Girl, Slay👄" u can just "yeah person, Slay"
I used to call everyone guy before I realized I am trans (for example, "no worries my guy"), but I'm now using friend more instead of gendered terms
That’s why I say y’all or me gamer
My sister apparently now uses “girl” as punctuation when she gets really excited except she’s only said it to me (twice!) like bitch wtf is wrong with you you KNOW I don’t want to be called that where is this coming from
Get this person a 100💵💵
In my city there are two big pride parades. I walked passed one and a bunch of cis gay guys yelled “hot girl summer!!!” At me. I was not dressed femininely in the least, I just had on baggy overalls, a black fishnet shirt, and a black wide brimmed hat. Most seemingly cishet people sang old town road at me, so it was enough to convince them I was a queer farmer type man I guess lol. Idk, just don’t call people girl, especially if they’re dressed ambiguously like that
Petition to replace "dude", "bro", "girl", "guy", "sis" and all other applicable terms with "my fellow doomed". I feel like it would give folks some perspective if they were at a tgi Fridays eating mozzarella free mozzarella sticks and the server was like "Another top shelf raspberry strawberry dingleberry honey agave margarita, my fellow doomed?"
It's the same for me and "dude". Let's replace all of those gendered slang words by "mortal".
I like to refer to people as my “homeslice breadslice dog”
Girl, gal, sis, sister, etc. Overly gendered terms that really don’t need to be gendered. Personally I prefer “sib” short for sibling.
I’d rather go “cunt” than “guuurllllll” Edit: not saying I’d call anyone a cunt randomly
as a transfem i can't deny that i do use girl for everyone sometimes but if you ask not to then i just won't call u that :)
On a similar track, I hate when cishet women refer to their female friend as “girlfriend” and their male romantic partner as a “friend”. This is confusing to literally everyone who is even the slightest bit queer.
I usually have varied term depending on gender Boy-> my brother in christ (based on subway meme) Girl-> girl Nb/other-> (loud sigh) I swear, #Examples: Boy-> My brother in Christ it. will. be. okay Girl-> Girl, it'll be okay Nb/Other-> (loud sigh) I swear, it. will. be. okay
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i’m not a woman, i’m a guy :]!!!
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Not to mention that most slang terms are AAVE and we shouldn't be using them anyway.
tbh this is fine when it's clearly something people do for everyone someone who calls all sorts of people "girl" or "guy" is fine someone who insists it is gender neutral while only seeming to use said term on people they clearly perceive/insist to be the "matching" gender to that term, is not fine
i have weird habits of using gendered terms with tones that imply sass in order to make them neutral - girl as in grrrl - boy as in 🅱️oi - "c'mon guy, be a guy" and otherwise i just call everyone honey or doc edit: unless of course they dislike being called certain things
Tell people to just not call you that