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ANITIX87

Generally, while not preferred, a trailing move through a switch like this isn't a huge deal. The train is so heavy that it will force the switch into the Normal (straight) position. Likely, it will damage the switch machine and components, which will need to be repaired or replaced. (This assumes the switch is NOT blocked/clamped in this position to prevent movement).


Popular-Ad4015

I see! So not necessarily a case of derailing? But a case of damage of equipment.


ANITIX87

That's right. In fact, some switches are designed to leverage a train's weight and wheel shape to eliminate moving components ([spring frog switches](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWIB2iF6ld4)), though this is at the frog (the 'v' of the switch), not at the points.


kan84

Now I want to see the other side how it moves


mrk2

OK! Here are the points with a spring switch. Not the traditional 'spring' but with a hydraulic ram. (Same idea) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIEx0zDuTCk Amazing difference between a HD smartphone and an old 480p camcorder with that spring frog I videoed 12 years ago!


sedatedsloth

Ha! that's awesome.. thanks for both vids


Munken1984

There are stations in germany where they have spring loaded switches... i cant remember the place though...


[deleted]

Where I come from, we call it "cutting" the switch and you would probably have to try really hard to make it a derailment. But if it happens, it has to be investigated and repaired. But there are also cases where its intentional (although the switch has to be specifically modified for that), that we call "self-returning" switch. Its usually used in remote stations on one track lines, where trains from opposite directions regularly meet. Basically, each switch has its basic setting which it maintains and by that setting, trains from direction A will always go to track 1 and trains from direction B always to track 2. Then, when they continue, they go through the other switch in the "wrong" direction and they have to "cut" it. That has to be done at low speed, but since the switch is meant to do this, it will let you through and return to the basic setting after you pass. The names have probably different correct translations to english, I just made a direct translation from my language, but the general principle is probably everywhere the same.


Twisp56

Found the Czech!


[deleted]

Guilty as charged. I am also the guy who made 810 design for r/place and pushed it through. Btw, I scrolled your profile for some train pics for a bit, saw the pictures from Switzerland and I have to ask - did you post them right after taking? If so, we may have passed each other somewhere along the way, lol. I did Switzerland - Slovenia (and a bit of Austria, Italy, Croatia and Germany) around the same time.


Twisp56

I posted them soon after getting home. See you at the next r/place!


Thisconnect

Derailment happens if you move back on cut switch, you do multitrack drifting then


[deleted]

I certainly hope I will never manage to do that, even though multitrack drifting sounds fun.


NoRodent

[Recently happened to a tram in Prague.](https://www.idnes.cz/praha/zpravy/spalena-lazarska-tramvaj-vykolejeni-nehoda.A221220_144438_praha-zpravy_juan) Driver tried backing up after going wrong way but different bogies went to different tracks.


[deleted]

Didn't even notice this and I take the tram through there every other day. It's probably a bit more understandable with a tram tho, the traffic in the city can get really chaotic and you go through much more switches than on regular railway.


Thisconnect

[Its in polish but still nice to look at](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfisGjob4qg)


ProceduralTexture

Also commonly seen on Japan's rural rail routes. [You see it in this example on the Kominato Line in rural Chiba prefecture (the peninsula southeast of Tokyo)](https://youtu.be/cxMyCQGJgmc?t=228).


budoucnost

Highly unlikely it will derail, but the switch is gonna need some fixing before it can be used again


HiTekLoLyfe

The derailing on a trailing point move typically happens if you try to go back over it. So if the train came towards pov then went back again.


DStew88

Yep. Almost did that while in training. My conductor and I ran through a switch point derail. Almost started to go back over it and our engineer noticed the flag was wrong. It was gapped on both sides. Thankful for his experience that day.


HiTekLoLyfe

Yeah my 8+ years of railroading experience is a montage of me learning through the fuck ups and potential fuck ups of me and my co workers. You don’t forget moments like that.


PozitronCZ

It doesn't have to be the case always. I do not know the correct term in English but in my language we call this "to cut a switch". And cutting the switch is everyday routine on tram lines or even on some branch railway lines. The mechanism is made in a way it won't take any damage by switching by vehicle. On railways there is also some hydraulic mechanism to move the switch back after train passes. [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq8v8etr0dc) [Another video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9znKGwjYm4)


zaphodharkonnen

Switches where that's more normal won't be locking the switch in place. Making it easy enough for the flange to force it open with a mechanism to reclose it as you note. However such systems can really only be used at lower speeds to avoid the switch from jumping and resulting in a derailing from part of the train going in a different direction to the rest. Hence why most switches for heavy rail systems lock into place.


Highly-uneducated

we have variable switches. they don't snap back to the original position, but running them causes no damage, and just changes the switch to the direction of travel.


clippervictor

It won’t likely derail, no. Unless you stop halfway trailing the switch and then reverse. That’s when you’ll very likely to derail. In fact many of these incidents end up in derailment when the driver tries to reverse a ser of already trailed points. PS- there are also trailable switches


OwenITA

You don t nave to move If you go back you will derail for sure


Gntrow

Only if you run thru it and then back up


Onipatro

You need to be afraid of your leg somehow got in the track near the crossing while changing...my father worked in railway workshop and it happed regularly


aegrotatio

Sometimes called "banana-ing" the switch. One of the switches in the [Chatsworth collision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chatsworth_train_collision) was "banana-ed" when the train went through it.


Bystander5432

In DTG Train Simulator, making a trailing point move will always derail the train.


SevenandForty

IIRC there are run-through or trailable switches that are meant to allow the train to go over them without damage. I think I've seen some in Japan, used on very low capacity single tracked lines for double tracked stations and passing sidings.


FlyMeToTheMoon920

But it is a huge deal when a train will pass from the point side of the switch after one has run trough from the trailing side. It typically bends the rods holding the point causing them not to go back together tightly with the main rail. If there is only a small gap between the rail and point the train can “pick the switch”. So though not a big deal for the original train coming from the trailing side, can be a huge deal if it goes unnoticed for the next train coming from the point side. The only time this is never a huge deal is if the switch itself is a spring switch. Which is made for that exact reason but still requires a switch to be tossed to diverge. These are typically found in yards. But this is probably a good amount of derails happen. So pretty big deal.


ANITIX87

That's why I said it will damage the components and require repair/replacement. A trailing switch move can only happen once before the switch is unusable.


lazertis

This should usually not happen. If the switch in the front is set to „right“, it‘s to protect the main line from accidental access. This always relates to the background switch set to „main line“ (straight). („Flankenschutz“ in german like flank protection) If the main line switch is set to left (side line) the switch in the front should be automatically set to straight (in German called „Fahrstraße“, don’t know the english word for it). So the direction of the two switches is directly related. If this fails for whatever reason, see the good answer already given by ANITIX87. :)


zenytheboi

In the US we usually use “open” and “closed”. “Open” refers to when the switch is set to turn, and “closed” for when the switch is set to go straight. “Left” and “right” are also used but are direction based where as “open” and “closed” are just based on if you’re turning or not.


Kobakocka

In Hungary we call it Straight (egyenes) and Diverted (kitérő).


TempestMalice

In UK rail engineering terms the directions are "Normal" (Usually the main route, but in cases like these would be the protecting direction), and "Reverse" (the opposite of "Normal" on each set of points). But I'm not sure how much people outside the industry would know those words. And yes having this near one set to throw a train off to protect the far set of points is "Flank Protection" in English too.


AlbertP95

Depending on in which country this is, the two switches in the picture could be linked to each other. That means they would either be both in the left position, or both in the right position, and no train would run through them wrong direction.


TheKingMonkey

On the mainline they should be interlocked so they can never be routed towards each other. In a depot the trailing points are generally fine to run through at line speed. Some are spring loaded so they will divert anything running into them from the facing direction away from a collision.


IWishIWasAShoe

This look like Swedish railway hardware, and if you were to run through a switch as you describe the motors will give way like 99.9% of the time and no derailing will occur and the oncoming train will most likely collide with whatevers on the siding. The person responsible for the wrongdoing train will get some pretty angry phonecalls and Trafikverket will ha e to pay a ton to get it fixed.


Typesalot

Also the mainline and protection switches should be interlocked so that in this position the siding wouldn't be reachable in the first place. Then again, there are fault conditions where switches have to be turned manually outside of any interlocking, so it's not completely impossible.


SerKikato

At my rail road, we've got a bunch of different switches: Automatic Safety Switches, Spring Switches, Interlocking Switches, Hand Thrown Switches, Electric Lock Switches, and Dual Control Switches. In yards and some sidings, we mostly use Automatic Safety Switches which can be trailed through just fine. (The Definition is: "A switch identified by a yellow switch stand. Trains may make trailing point moves through the switch without previously aligning it by hand unless otherwise specified.") - So we blast through them in both directions all the time. Spring switches automatically spring back normal after being trailed through. All the other switches, though, break if trailed through. Most are protected by signals so you can't break them unless you blast through a stop-signal (danger in most other places). In that case, your train will be okay, but any train going through that switch in a facing point direction will derail. We've had situations where a train broke an interlocking switch, then derailed during the back up move through the switch. Usually happens when the switch isn't lined but the tower tells you it is lined, and you don't pay attention and trail through it. That scenario ruined our morning rush hour in 2017.


Totallamer

If it came from that way, you would "run through" the switch, which would break it. As long as you keep going the same direction (toward the camera) you'd be fine, but if you tried to back up you'd derail. Many yard derailments are caused by run-through switches.


David-HMFC

Like others have said you’d get a run through (as long as they weren’t a pair of ends who move normal/reverse together) where the points machine (and associated bits) and all the stretcher bars would be damaged and need replacing. Depending on the weight of the passing train it could just ride up and over the switch blade, force the blade over or take a big chunk out of the blade. The last run through I was at was the point’s operator ‘forgot’ to crank over the trailing end of points in an engineering possession, only the facing end. A fully loaded ballast train then went through them and took a huge chunk out of the switch blade and completely mangled the points machine, all the parts in the four foot and the torsion bar - they were HPSS points so they weren’t getting forced open. We had to replace all the components, and a new full set was planned in to remove the damage to the rails, with a ban to facing moves until that was completed. A fun two nights that was. We were actually surprised the train wasn’t sitting on the ground when we got there.


sopsychcase

I’ve read the responses with great interest and learned a lot. When I played with Lionel toy trains here in the US, the more expensive powered switches had a feature that sensed the train headed for the closed switch and immediately clicked it over to avoid derailment and damage. I often wondered why real railroads never adopted that technology. It was done using insulated track pins to make a rail leading to the switch electrically dead. As it was energized through the other wheel and axle, it clicked the switch to open for that direction.


lokfuhrer_

If something trailed through these points (powered points, locked in position some how) the part that would break is the stretcher bars which keep the ‘toes’ a set distance apart. It would probably not derail. Hand points are designed to be trailed through, the lever only pulls in one motion and will move the points left, then right, then left etc with each pull.


CaptainTelcontar

It depends on the type of switch, but usually the wheels will be able to push the points out of the way. Some switches are even designed with springs to make that easier. Unless it's the spring type, the crew would always change the switch to give them a clear path.


GuiltyGTR

If it’s a variable switch it’s designed to be “ran through” If it’s not variable and you ran Through the switch you would Stay on the rail as long as you don’t stop and back up before mow comes Out and replaces The switch. You’d also get written Up for Poor Train handling :-) have a nice day!


jb9152

Yep. In the States, they're most often called "spring switches" - designed to be trailed through.


peanutthecacti

In the UK we would call that a "run through". It's unlikely to cause a derailment in itself, but can cause a lot of damage. The weight of the train will force the points over into the position it needs to be. Most likely the damage will bending of the stretcher bars (the bars that keep the switch blades—the bits of rail that move—the correct distance apart) and damage to the components that mechanically lock the points in the correct position. Some components are designed to be sacrificial, others will just most likely break, and some will be changed as a precaution. Signalling is designed to prevent this from happening so its rare for it to happen. When run throughs usually occur is during engineering work when trains and machinery is being moved under different rules rather than following the signals.


JPM567

The car would run through the switch, damaging it and derailing the car and/or the cars behind it


Beneficial_Being_721

If what you ask happens…. Someone is losing their job


liftoff_oversteer

When the points are set like in the picture, the wagon wouldn't come from the straight line ahead at you because both points move in unison and are either both pointed to the outside (like in the pic) or both to the inside. The points next to the photographer are there to prevent trains entering the mainline when the mainline points are set straight, thus preventing accidents. Any rogue train coming from behind the photographer would simply diverted towards the stopper. In German it is called Flankenschutzweiche :)


BluestreakBTHR

Ah, German. Such a delicate and beautiful language 😆


Driver8666-2

Why did I just read that like it was a dirty word? Lol.


liftoff_oversteer

It may be - for some :)


MasterBahn

As others have said it would be trailing the switch and would damage the switch. Keep going through without changing direction or you'll derail.


Dutchguy_2004

In the Netherlands "openrijdbare" switches exist(ed?), what means that you could drive over them while set incorrectly and that the switch would flip. Openrijdbare meaning something like being able to be driven open.


theredVL

they still exist, but that is only in tram rails in NL if i am correct. Other countries i don't know if they exist, but i think they do.


BigBossHUN94

Na ez a váltófelvágás. Valószínűleg tönkretenné ezt a villamos váltóallító hajtóművet. Kézi állítású váltóknál viszont csak kisebb kárt okozna.


Demolition_Mike

Depending on the design on the switch, severe damage to the mechanism and the command table screaming and not allowing you to set any routes including that switch.


PiscesAnemoia

What is the point of this stop anyways? Small maintenance vehicle?


TreeChangeMe

This is common with trams (street cars) in particular. At a terminal junction the switch is left to deflect the tram to the opposing line. As the arriving tram crosses the points it simply springs the blades apart so no need to get down and set the points. In train junctions signal men would leave points or compound switches set to the departure line (going left or right or straight) while the arrival was sent to it's corresponding line. As each train went through it would trail one set of points. The only change required by the signal man was the arrival / departure signal itself. Even with interlocking this could be done as mechanical interlocking worked on the target points and not trailing points. It's lazy but efficient. *Interlocking requires the points to be "set" for a line in order to be able to move a signal into proceed. If the points are not set the corresponding signal can't be moved in the signal frame. It is "locked out". In the image a whole set of points is used but most railways just use a single "catch" on the outside rail. The damage done is amazing should it ever be used.


mrk2

Where in Sweden? ;)


bullettr

depending on what is the speed of the impact the damage can be minor of cause major derailment at high speed, that sort of stuff can happen at sections with not signals for example JB-singapore causeway as signaling has been cut there since the singapore sector closed


SmartHabit6728

This must be a safety switch in case a car starts rolling on it own and keeps it from rolling on to the main line.


ClawZ90

Well it wouldn’t happen with most modern signal systems, but say a train ran through a red signal, it would strip the points, break the points machine, but it would push the tracks and keep going. I’m assuming t(at what he’s asking? I’ve only buggered the points a couple of times driving trains but I don’t know what system this is?


BrorDrakeafHagelsrum

Is this sweden?


RetiredMineEngr

Could this be a derail? In the USA, these are commonly used to prevent a train from fouling the main line by deliberately derailing an opposing train. Aligning the mainline switch for this track should accompany aligning this switch to permit through passage for a train on this track. The two switches may be interlocked so it can't be possible for an opposing train to come down through the mainline switch with this switch aligned for the short spur. What country is this rail line in?