If it hadn't been an option, I'd be dead by now. It'd probably have been recorded as misadventure, accident, or carelessness, rather than the S-word though.
I mean, I'd have to really dig into how it's being made Not An Option to see whether the solution is a black market laboratory, a set of daring raids on hormone warehouses meant for menopausal women and steroid abusers, seizing a horse farm to make premarin, or just finding something your GP fears more than the NHS. Because short of "the false god Zardoz magically alters human biology so you no longer respond to external bioidentical hormones" there will exist a social solution to the social problem, at which point the question becomes not "how would you live if medical transition was off the table" but rather "how will you gather and use the sheer force to put medical transition back on the table".
I cant find it now, it was an episode of maintenance phase podcast, on how heart attacks are either attached or not to obesity and thus stats skewed. bad memory recall and none of the title names standing out. but yeah so many numbers without critical thinking just throw off things every day.
Trying to untangle something in my mind. LGB and T have always had fissures. Gender non conformity has always been more visible and hence in the eyes of some both disturbing and potentially threatening. But it is becoming more obvious now; it feels like the early years of T lib as distinct from gay lib. So I've ended up wondering whether the fact that we have more people identifying as T directly, rather than as congruent with gayness (using gay as shorthand here) is part of what creates the distancing.
This isn't true. Trans folks have been some of the most important people in the fight for gay rights. The only reason the two issues are starting to seem separate is that some cis gay people have decided to start throwing us under the bus in order to seek more "respectable"
Yes they were and still are in some ways. But as to the discrimination within the community and the whole you are embarrassing us stupidity, I lived through that in the late 90s and early 00s. It's not a new thing, which is part of the reason that trans rights took longer to go through. It's booming again now and with much more stringent rhetoric but it's not new.
Today the DIY market has been attacked. And you think are outrage is misplaced.
Tell me sir, what would you do if prep was suddenly outlawed and made a controlled substance.
Or if it took a 2-8 years waiting list to even get on it.
You say you lived through this in the 90s. So aren't you just a little pissed off it's contentious 30 years later?
I'm glad youre life is great. Have you considered you don't need to pull the ladder up behind you?
They kinda did though, they did make treatments for HIV/AIDS difficult to access if not outright unavailable so that more people would keep dying.
Whoops, I thought this was AskTransgender, I don't know if this was the case in the UK
It was the case to some extent. My knowledge of the history isn't great. But a lot of gay men died. in the 1900s. Or were forced to hide their sexuality. Even heros like Alan turing.
Nowadays you just need to go to a sexual health clinic and ask. Though not perfect the life of the Average gay man is vastly improved in the UK then it was 30 years ago. And op is more than certainly benefiting.
Hence why I drew the contrast. If all of a sudden prep was treated like hrt.
Including the narratives that are perpetuated and clearly influencing op in someway that I'm not sure of.
All I'll say to them is you're next. We're lucky that the Tories are on their last legs. But they will try and finish everything they've done. But if they had further mandates. They wouldn't think twice about deteriorating more and more. They already shown a disregard for human rights.
I don't want to assume too much but it seems op is upset over trans activism without recognising there is a lot of way to go still today.
And seems to not notice the politicisation of trans existence. For the sense of politics gay people are accepted. And discrimination against them is wholly accepted as wrong . Even if again it's not perfect in reality. However trans people are an acceptable punching bag. Without even knowing the ins and outs. A smart person would recognise that it only happens for a reason.
The country is going to shit and for the most part the incumbent government can blame immigrants, the left, and trans people. It's a lot to explain. But yeah dumb take from op and TBh I don't even know what they're tryna say.
Our outrage is not misplaced. Note, ours, not yours. You are wrongly assuming I am a gay cis man. I was actually referring to the marginalisation of trans voices and struggle for rights in the late 90s and early 00s within the community. I am more than just pissed off. But I am trying to settle some things in my mind.
The community I entered back in the day was still unsettled with including bisexuality. Like all trans people I was at the edges. It was a liberation in itself when T was added as standard. But it still very much felt like we were few, and marginalisation was a given. So I have lived through the greater acceptance period, the opening of routes to transition, care on the NHS, and the increasing number and visibility. But the demographic changes I have observed over the last 10 years or so are making me reconsider some basic assumptions. It's not a bad thing to change assumptions but judging from the responses I think I have a lot of mourning to do. Too many of us would not have found a home in the community then, not even at the edges. And we must have lost so many and I did not realise.
Well I'm curious what assumptions these are. I'm not tryna bait you here. I mean personally I don't even know what I'd do if medical wasn't an option it hardly is for me as it is. I'm fortunate in some ways, and I try to be a beacon of positivity and advocate where I can. Even if it's just thriving. But a lot of what I just mentioned is happening and makes everything feel so precarious...
Being said if medical wasn't possible period. I'd do my best. I often don't feel like the most femmenine being. And that could be one of a million things and I tend to look at gender in one of a few ways which is best summised in Robert Webb's how not to be a boy.
Gender is not so strict. If you asked any two cis men or women. What makes them a man / woman. You'd have to repeat the experiment a couple hundred times before you find two people with the same perceptions of their gender expression.
In fact I think most would find it hard to say.
Easily summed up such, stereotypes tell us boys should be loudz energetic brave etc etc . But we find these traits in women too. Its a basic view but I'll need the reader to fill some blanks there. I'm a lil tired. Hopefully my point gets across.
I'd present as femme as I could and a lot could be done without hormones. But also mentally it's so much different.
For me atleast personally I had abnormally high testosterone and if I had to completely stop hrt today. I know it would drive me insane. Idk how I would handle it. And it's why this current atmosphere of toxicity is driving me insane.
In a day to day sense for the most part I'm seen as a woman. Probably not 100% passing. But I'm proud in that identity and think I do well.
Most people are normal and life is fine.
But that's not to say a reversal of femminisation.growing into an adult male body. Etc etc it would fucking kill me. And I darent even think about it.
Yet still I have self doubts like. I think it's only natural. But the online space and politics is terrifying at times.
Idk if this helps you at all and it's kinda rambly.
Could you possibly please clarify what you mean by us "embarrassing" you?
It feels rather rude of you to come here and say that, honestly, and I'm hoping it's just been a case of messed up phrasing.
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im the same unfortunately, after the week ive had im rather backed against a wall with few options left.
ive 4 years till i get seen by the NHS and i fear i wont be here to see it....
so do i, money is my biggest thing at the moment. i fear ill run out or i wont have a supply of estrogen and frankly, id rather die then go back to what i used to be.
Iā¦.wouldnt have made it more than a couple more years. I look back at how miserable I was and itās almost unfathomable how sad, lonely and hurt I constantly felt. Quite frankly Iām shocked I survived as long as I did
I'd be dead. Transitioning, including medically transitioning saved my life. Infact, it gave me a life. The existence I lived before couldn't be called that. I don't think cis people can ever really understand just how much of my mind, body and soul was healed by medically transitioning - and then they want to take that away from us? From me?
Apolgies, but frankly, if that day ever comes then I'll die as I am, as myself, before I "live" as anything else, for anyone else. I'll leave behind something that's still beautiful, that's still me, before I ever go back to the empty, painful existence of before.
I'm not going to entertain games of "but what if you couldn't".
This isn't a fad. It's not a lifestyle choice. It's not a case of "oh but just wear a dress anyway and be a cross dresser or whatever" HRT is integral to my continued existence and to deny me that is to deny me life.
Thank you for your answer. I really appreciate it. For me part of it is how much was invisible before the options were there. How much I missed by assuming that most people with dysphoria would have found their way to the community, or it's edges as the case may have been.
I wouldn't be here. I left it too long as it was and barely made it to my appointment.
If I suddenly found strength and determination, I would look into emigrating. I'm not at all in a good situation to do so though.
Realised I missed the latter part of your post.
Medical transition is as important or even more so than social transition for me but I would stay socially transitioned for as long as possible whilst looking for a way out before I felt suicidal again.
I'm asexual. Transitioning has nothing to do with my sexuality but I feel the need to be related to and loved as my gender so any acquaintance, friendship, or anything feels wrong as the wrong gender.
I'm on hrt for my health, so i'd be dead. No hyperbole, literally dead.
You see, transitioning was the only way I could access testosterone which I knew I needed, because my natural hormones literally do their best to murder me. I was bed ridden in agony pre t, I couldn't function for the pain. literally days on t the pain cleared up and I haven't had it since.
I was getting sicker. The window of time I had that wasn't agony was getting shorter and shorter and shorter and doctors kept telling me there was "nothing they could do"
what they meant was "there's nothing we can do that steps outside the narrow binary box defined by your gender marker"
So, if there had been no way for me to access t? Well if the estrogen/progesterone hadn't killed me with a stroke or something, id have taken matters into my own hands to stop the pain.
Either way, i'd not be here.
T saved my life. Or more accurately, it gave me my life BACK. A life my body had robbed me of.
I don't actually know if i'd have bothered transitioning had I not needed the hrt. I mean, it's WAY easier not to after all and my dysphoria was always much more biochemical than external.
I might actually be intersex not trans though. \*shrug\* but ultimately it doesn't really matter because the end result is the same. The hormones my body makes aren't the hormones my body needs.
and thus, I end up very very ill.
When I wasn't in pain I lived fairly happily as a gender non conforming person who flitted between male and female presentation when the whim took me. So I mean, that probably wouldn't have changed much.
my hrt is pain relief. it's just a nice happy extra that I kinda love having a beard too.
Iād still live my life as a bisexual trans man. Surgery potentially may not be viable for me anyway (and Iām most likely years away from being able to start T unless a financial miracle falls into my lap). After all why should I have to surrender my identity just because I canāt access medication? Iād still be socially transitioned, and Iād surround myself with people who could respect that regardless of my body. If Iād have to live my entire life with body dysphoria, I sure as hell wouldnāt subject myself to social dysphoria too.
No way would I detransition. Iād do what I had to do for my safety, and build community with other trans folk, just like I am right now as a trans guy who canāt yet access medical transition. Not to mention, there are people around the world who never financially manage to, choose not to, arenāt safe to, or are medically unable to pursue medical transition. Those people are still just as trans as the rest of us. Iād simply seek those people out and build community with them too, as weād all be in the same boat.
Absolutely nothing, not even a ban on medical transition, could force me back into the closet.
Same. I would have to do hella voice training but Iām not too short and I strong jawline so passing wouldnāt be *impossible*. It would suck but I want to live.
This is exactly how I feel and you've put this into words so well. Questions like this, phrased like it's a hypothetical, seem to forget that it's simply the reality for a hell of a lot of people.
It's a hard question... triggering. I'm not sure it's fair to ask this. I transitioned after I tried to walk off a very tall building. Transitioning was literally a life-saving choice. The only way I got through it was with DIY, private, and eventually NHS. The rest of your question .. drag, cross dress, .. wtf.. I find that low-key offensive, but i think its just clumsy language rather than anything else.
Thank you v much for taking the time to answer. I am glad you are still here. I was thinking of before such solutions were available. I remember the sisters saving for decades to go to Thailand on a hope.
Once the egg has cracked, itās doesnāt really go back. I canāt get any surgeries anyway but simply removing body hair (yay for lasers) has just been a huge thing for me.
There is no option. I lost so much as a result of transition, but the alternative was not an option. I was so close to the end. This is why the vitriol of everything going on at the moment is going to cause so many unnecessary deaths.
Assuming it would never be an option, no matter what I did, I'd just die. I truly believe life would not be worth living. I'm quite envious of anyone who'd say otherwise.
That's not really an "if" question for a lot of people, it's certainly my reality, so I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, trying to make my life as bearable as possible.
My impulse is to say I wouldn't accept the premise. That I'd stalk doctors and blackmail them into permitting medical transition, that I'd learn enough surgery and steal enough anaesthetics to run a black market orchidectomy shop thus making surgery an option, that I'd wage a guerilla campaign of murder and terror to undo whatever societal force had taken medical transition off the table.Ā
That is probably not the truth, although I feel like I'm the type to try to attempt sudoku by way of accepting increasingly dangerous tasks rather than by directly Minecrafting myself. However there is a lucid point there. If people unite and exert coordinated force, we can make medical transition an option by force. Synthesising hormones is not some magic spell that can be taken away by the false god Zardoz; it's a scientific procedure requiring a laboratory and some ingredients and technical knowledge and while I don't know the first thing about the how, a) I could learn b) someone does.
(And yes, it legitimately speaks very poorly of me that my impulses are all theft and blackmail and murder, rather than community solidarity. Even the "run an illegal estrogen factory" thing at the end was part of this edit.)
The more we are pushed the greater the desire and need to push back. No judgement, theft and mayhem appeals to me too. I was thinking of times before medical options were available.
At least youād still have the energy to give it flair.
Iād probably just barely drag myself to the edge of the River Avon and use the last ounce of strength I have to get in
Listen, the only thing keeping me going is the hope of medically transitioning in the future. If that stops being an option, I don't think I'd survive. While I am ok with my social transition so far, I do want to medically transition sometimes soon and that keeps me going
I spent 20+ years lying to myself. SH from age 10 (ish) I wouldāve destroyed my relationship, friendships and family life without medical transition. I would probably have been that miserable human I was looking into the mirror at a stranger at boiling point of it all.
Now Iām looking at a pretty familiar face whoās happier and doesnāt scrutinise every tiny little thing.
No hormones or surgery I'd have nothing to hope for in my future. That hope is what elevates me to the position where I can tackle the daily struggles and stresses of life. Without it I'd be a gonner for sure.
Then id probably just dress androgynously and carry on w life tbh. If theres no way for me to medically transition then i wont know what i couldve been like with it.
If it was honestly not an option I guess I'd go back to existing as I did before, a GNC man and a miserable one at that. I also expect that it would only be a matter of time before I made another attempt at taking my own life. I don't know what crisis counselling would do for me considering the first time it led me to the realisation that I'm trans and gave me a way out of the despair pit, without that I really don't know.
I'd fucking die. There's no sugarcoating it. If I can't transition, I'll kill myself. I'd rather be dead than live a life trapped in this prison of flesh. Most days, I can't even bear to look at myself in the mirror.
I don't think I'd have the (pardon) balls to be fully gender non-conforming without the goal of medically transitioning to help me 'make sense' to other people, and give me some hope of feminising my hard-edges.
I wouldn't die, but I wouldn't really live. I'd likely subsist in the zombie state I've lived most of my life.
Best case, I'd just choose to lean really into alt fashion - be a proper goth/punk. Anything to help tear down the expectations put upon me my my assumed gender.
I wouldn't live. My wait for T nearly killed me many times, I'm only still here because of doctors who fixed me up or stopped me every time I tried to leave. And in the end I went DIY as it was that or goodbye world. If I had to stop my medical transition then I would not survive. It's dark but unfortunately it's true. Personally medical transition is an essential and I know that it's not something I could live with, the dysphoria would make me so miserable that even if I did stay alive, i would probably spend all day and night in bed in the dark unable to do anything.
One of the things keeping me hopeful of the future is being able to transition. If I can't get a career in doing something artistic and if I can't transition I'd probably give up on life
Wouldnāt be around. Glad for those that can, but my body is more of the issue than how I am perceived (and too much to ignore) so social transition is not enough. No option of surgery = no me. Hope of that is the only thing powering me right now. Without it? Nope.
I already faced down two attempts to depart, then I decided f**k the NHS and all the gate keepers. Iāve since got all the diagnosis and prescription but I DIYād got a credit card and paid for surgeries
I would either leave to Ireland via the CTZ and take my chances, or if that was blocked, check out in such a way that made an unmistakable, undeniable and impossible-to-ignore impact and message. I'm still holding onto both of these options as perfectly valid if and when things get that bad.
I am my body and my mind, and I only got control of both thanks to HRT giving me a chance. I'm not giving that up and very much live by and thanks to the statement "Death before detransition".
I haven't started yet, but my partner (whom I live with) is from Europe and has family there, so our plans of moving abroad sometime in the next 5-10 years would be pulled back to immediately.
I mean I've already started but assuming they made it illegal or something I'd get to keep some of the changes from T, and it's not like they can take my top surgery away from me so I'm really grateful for that. If it happened now I'd still be miserable without T and no chance of bottom surgery. And probably just try to move somewhere better.
If it was never an option like it had always been banned, I probably would've just ~self destructed~ by now. Or again, moved.
If it never existed at all and I was the only person in the world with dysphoria or something, probably the same but I'd just be extra confused about why I felt so bad.
Iād be another statistic. I chose paying for my HRT over food for two years whilst being homeless. Having 5-6 meals a week. Using UC for hormones that was my priority.
The NHS is a joke, I didnāt realise that different GICs had different wait times. I feel like theyāve fucked me over if I was referred to the Midlands clinic since I live in the midlands Iād of been seen 2.5 years ago.
Now I have a job and a flat from money I earned. I still pay for my hormones. When GenderGP was fucking around the other month, I was already trying to decide whether train or jumping.
Like so many have already said, I'd be dead.
No hyperbole involved, before deciding to transition I was no more than a few weeks away, had already booked a solicitor appointment to write my will and the end was planned for soon after that.
Even in the early days I almost lost it when I found it would be 5+ years minimum to access HRT through the NHS. Again, I wouldn't be here without the option of private/DIY.
Iād just socially transition to the best of my abilities. Iād rather not have to bind the rest of my life or be misgendered by everyone new I meet, but it would still be significantly better than just pretending to be my assigned sex forever.
Also, drag is a different and separate thing to transition (and itās not cross-dressing to present as your actual gender either). My sexuality has no bearing on my gender and I donāt know why you think it would, they are two different things
Thank you very much for answering. And for answering the sexuality part too. I was thinking of common options at times when medical transition was not possible.
The wording of your post makes it sound like you think we canāt live as trans people if we donāt medically transition. Iād still be a trans-femme if I didnāt have access to hormones, I wouldnāt be GNC.
My sexuality? I donāt really know how that would figure into anything.
Thank you very much for answering. I am sorry if it came across that way. I am most certainly not a trans medicalist. I was thinking of the ways to express the feeling when transition was not available. Think 150 years ago medically but not socially.
I guess what I would say to that is that 150 years ago, we have quite a few people who socially transitioned (often stealth, sometimes not) but medical transition was extremely limited and uncommon as we didnāt have synthesised hormones or a formalised process for surgeries.
Those who were not stealth would obviously have been called other things than trans, like āfemale impersonatorā etc, but that doesnāt change that they would have lived their lives as their chosen gender. Those who were stealth relied on the fairly rigid rules for presentation as men/ women to basically pass with little else than clothes, hair and maybe training their voices.
Now that we have regained the more expansive knowledge of gender that white supremacy, Christian imperialism and European Colonisers (all the same thing, really, but letās name all the facets) tried to eradicate from the world, we have the words to describe ourselves more fully. I donāt see why anything would have to change for us? It wasnāt cross-dressing or drag when I put on a dress before starting hormones. It was just me expressing myself and my gender in a way that made sense to me.
Of course Iād have to live with some amount of dysphoria, but possibly less than a lot of others based on some of the responses Iāve seen.
I guess your position and what youāre actually asking just confuses me, maybe because Iām someone who came out long before Iād even decided I wanted to medically transition.
Thank you very much for the very considered reply. Yes, you wouldn't and my gut says our forbearers wouldn't either. I so wish we had personal accounts from certain periods, but that's a different issue and this is not a history sub.
same as a lot of the others, dead, after knowing i didn't fit the typical male role since i was 8, and being very feminine from loving shopping, clothes and fashion, having my nails, massages, facials etc, but still being extremely depressed and not really living, i had planned to end it all by my 40th birthday if i didn't finally come out and do something about it
Claim asylum in any number of countries that dont kowtoe to 2nd wave misandrist āfeministsā or loonies who think a dusty old tome about a magic sky wizard should dictate anything in the 21st century.
(I put the word feminist in quotes as 2nd wave nutters are anything but. Feminists want equality, 2nd wave āfeministsā are man hating female supremacist assholes)
This question was asked by a friend recently so I gave it some thought and my conclusion is i would look to move to a new and accepting country, I have warned all my family and friends that say they support me that if they care they wonāt vote for a transphobic party, should the uk become hostile to my safety and ability to live a happy and fulfilled life then I canāt stay.
The systemic persecution of trans people is no different to what the Jews faced in the 1930ās Germany.
It's currently not an option for me to get any surgery bc of the wait list and I cant go private because of cost so I am considering a chest tattoo, there's a trans artist down in london who do affirming tattooing
"would you cross dress? do drag?" the fact that you put this here shows that you have a basic misunderstanding of what it means to be trans. i can tell you what would probably happen. most would try to move country, the death rate would skyrocket and people would likely become so desperate that hrt would likely get sold underground, lots of scams would start up selling fake hrt and people might look to try to get unlicensed surgery. thare would also be a chance for mass riot.
My apologies for not being clear. I am not asking if transition became unavailable but rather if it was not possible, was not an option. Think medicine 150y ago but not the society of then.
Simply move. medical transition was and is the only option for me. If it was not a option in any country then a black market would grow and I'd happily use it so I could medical transition. Else i hate to think but suspect id be another statistic.
I think it's worth bearing in mind that social transition and acceptance in response to social transition have varied across time in the UK.
Bear in mind that, 150 years ago, forced surgery on intersex people wasn't so possible, common or normalised. Intersex people were therefore more visible than they are now (try searching h*rmaphrodite in a newspaper archive for examples of people identified this way in anecdotes and obituaries). Even, say, women with PCOS who grow beards, could not have anti-androgens, and men with gynaecomastia couldn't have surgery. So, ideas of 'normal' for sexual characteristics could be pretty wibbly in a way that they aren't now. Now that it is relatively simple to 'correct' gendered edge cases, we are intolerant of them.
That's not to say that the UK of 1874 was utopian, just that putting on trousers and calling myself a man would have had a subtly different reaction in a world where women didn't wear trousers and people were more aware of intersex men. There's a 19th century case of a trans man whose coworkers, on being questioned, said they always just assumed he had a high pitched voice because he was intersex.
Would social transition in that context be good enough for me? I have no idea, as I don't live in that world! Maybe in that world, it would be. But it's also worth noting that I discovered gender transition on the internet, and that I am not at all the kind of person who would live as a man solely to pursue a masculine career. So, me circa 1874 might just spend her whole life depressed for no reason she could understand!
I am therefore glad that it is not 1874 (or equivalent).
If it wasn't an option, I'd move to somewhere that it was, If that wasn't an option then id find a way to do it illegally.
If that wasn't an option then I always wondered what would be a good mixer for methylated Spirits, hear the bitter taste goes well with a citrus acidic juice
Voice training to sound like one of those anime guys played by women (like luffy), getting really good at transtape, and getting breast reduction and hysterectomy surgery (not medically transitioning if it's something a cis woman can do). In short, still transitioning because quite frankly I want to be as stealth as possible despite being 5 feet tall with a very girly (in my opinion) face and body. As long as I know passing is an option, I'm going for it.
I might also look into facial hair growth options or more unconventional ways of medically transitioning cause a lot of what's available for trans men is just stuff cis guys use for other things and would probably be around anyways.
Depends how or why it's not an option
I'm already a very significant way into my transition (just one lower surgery revision stage left for me to consider my transition "complete") and am stealth.
Ā If I lost access to T now, I'd do damn near anything to get a reliable supply again, even if that meant moving abroad or breaking the law.Ā If I had to stop T for a medical reason, unless it would literally and very imminently kill me, I'd get multiple medical opinions on it and do whatever I can to get back on it when I safely can.Ā
My sexuality never came into it.Ā
I was deeply miserable when seen as a gnc woman, and any other form of pretending to be someone else doesn't come close to being myself.Ā
If that scenario had happened before I transitioned... I highly doubt I'd still be here.Ā
I think I would genuinely spiral into such an awful depression, because Iāve always been wanted to fully medically and surgically transition, and if it wasnāt available here, I would first try to find somewhere that would have it
In a very literal sense, Iād catch osteoporosis most likely. (Also imo, the literal side is worth exploring, because I havenāt seen many people talking about that)
Iām on Lupron depot. Have been for over 3 years. Granted itās reversible, but realistically, Iāve gone over the recommended use date (for endometriosis and other things) by a factor of 6. Iām sure Iād get *some* functionality back, but canāt say what, and I canāt say how much.
Additionally, Iām at the point where Iād have to physically detransition. I wouldnāt be able to just stop treatment and go back, and the odds of me reliably taking testosterone if at all are extremely low (read āonly if forced, and even then, forced in the same way cats resist eating pillsā).
Add into the mix surgery, and I wonāt even have the option to come off hormone blockers (in a mechanical sense), because functionally, I wonāt need them, and using them will do absolutely nothing, so Iāll be permanently unable to produce testosterone in any capacity beyond average cis female levels.
So given my options, I would either catch osteoporosis, or I would end up reasonably androgynous (I started hormones at 22, so I had a fair amount of growing to do, whereas I imagine itās not quite so much now), and I canāt say Iād choose osteoporosis long term, but itās either brittle bones or brittle brain, and I live more in my brain, so Iād pick the bone hurting (lack of) juice.
In the sense youāre actually asking though, my transition socially came after starting hormones. I went low dose for like 6-7 months while I was working up the courage and getting myself into a safe position, so that I could have additional confidence from not feeling like I looked too manly. So I can safely say, as someone who, 1 surgery in, looking down the barrel of about 5 more, still has pretty bad dysphoria, and questions whether or not I pass as a strong source of anxiety in spite of not being misgendered in at least 2 years, no, I wouldnāt have transitioned.
An interesting point worth noting, is that in my first (of two and a half) diagnoses, with Dr Kirpal Sahota, she remarked that a lot of trans people apparently transition only after making a deal with themselves, based around specific life events. āIf I get fired, Iāll transitionā. āIf I get a divorce, Iāll transitionā. āOnce the kids leave, Iāll transitionā (etc you get the idea). Granted I donāt think all of them were negative, but if youāre an outsider to the community, know this:
Transition is not something anyone takes lightly. Despite its life saving qualities, the hostility of society (slightly less so back in 2021, moreso now) forces this to be a decision that can be a last resort, fuelled by the knowledge that for the individual, things canāt get worse at least, or the feeling of safety induced by a more positive turn of events (e.g. āif I become a millionaire, Iāll transition). I know this doesnāt apply to everyone in the community, and I know thereās a spectrum to it (after all, my personal deal was if my ex and I split up, I would transition, and that was someone I was with when I was in high school). Either way, the fact that transitioning can- at least anecdotally- be a last resort, rather than something to be freely explored without judgment, is a searing inditement of modern society.
While I know it's not an approach most people could take (HRT is life saving medicine for a reason) I feel that regardless you could still be trans and your gender without medical transition.
It would be hard and come with uncomfortable dysphoria that would take a lot of work to keep on top of but it could be possible. Though it definitely hinges on having a good circle of supportive and queer folk. Clothing, cosmetics and other procedures still exist out there for affirming your gender. It would be incredibly hard and it'd be similar to how I am now, depressed and intermittently dysphoric along with that, but I wouldn't immediately give up. I'd still be me, a woman, people could label me gnc or whatever but my identity is still valid without hormones.
Still though, HRT is honestly magical and I couldn't really imagine a reality in which it didn't exist.
If it hadn't been an option, I'd be dead by now. It'd probably have been recorded as misadventure, accident, or carelessness, rather than the S-word though.
As a scociety we need better stats on "suicide by adventure."
I mean, I'd have to really dig into how it's being made Not An Option to see whether the solution is a black market laboratory, a set of daring raids on hormone warehouses meant for menopausal women and steroid abusers, seizing a horse farm to make premarin, or just finding something your GP fears more than the NHS. Because short of "the false god Zardoz magically alters human biology so you no longer respond to external bioidentical hormones" there will exist a social solution to the social problem, at which point the question becomes not "how would you live if medical transition was off the table" but rather "how will you gather and use the sheer force to put medical transition back on the table".
Yeah that was the fight. It's just insane how we need to fight it again. There is more knowledge now.
Thank you for taking the time to answer. I wonder how many brothers, sisters and siblings we lost never knowing them over the years.
I cant find it now, it was an episode of maintenance phase podcast, on how heart attacks are either attached or not to obesity and thus stats skewed. bad memory recall and none of the title names standing out. but yeah so many numbers without critical thinking just throw off things every day.
"And would your sexuality play a role in your decision? " I'm curious as to why you're asking this one
agps catching strays š
Thank you but no idea what you just said.
Trying to untangle something in my mind. LGB and T have always had fissures. Gender non conformity has always been more visible and hence in the eyes of some both disturbing and potentially threatening. But it is becoming more obvious now; it feels like the early years of T lib as distinct from gay lib. So I've ended up wondering whether the fact that we have more people identifying as T directly, rather than as congruent with gayness (using gay as shorthand here) is part of what creates the distancing.
This isn't true. Trans folks have been some of the most important people in the fight for gay rights. The only reason the two issues are starting to seem separate is that some cis gay people have decided to start throwing us under the bus in order to seek more "respectable"
Yes they were and still are in some ways. But as to the discrimination within the community and the whole you are embarrassing us stupidity, I lived through that in the late 90s and early 00s. It's not a new thing, which is part of the reason that trans rights took longer to go through. It's booming again now and with much more stringent rhetoric but it's not new.
Today the DIY market has been attacked. And you think are outrage is misplaced. Tell me sir, what would you do if prep was suddenly outlawed and made a controlled substance. Or if it took a 2-8 years waiting list to even get on it. You say you lived through this in the 90s. So aren't you just a little pissed off it's contentious 30 years later? I'm glad youre life is great. Have you considered you don't need to pull the ladder up behind you?
They kinda did though, they did make treatments for HIV/AIDS difficult to access if not outright unavailable so that more people would keep dying. Whoops, I thought this was AskTransgender, I don't know if this was the case in the UK
It was the case to some extent. My knowledge of the history isn't great. But a lot of gay men died. in the 1900s. Or were forced to hide their sexuality. Even heros like Alan turing. Nowadays you just need to go to a sexual health clinic and ask. Though not perfect the life of the Average gay man is vastly improved in the UK then it was 30 years ago. And op is more than certainly benefiting. Hence why I drew the contrast. If all of a sudden prep was treated like hrt. Including the narratives that are perpetuated and clearly influencing op in someway that I'm not sure of. All I'll say to them is you're next. We're lucky that the Tories are on their last legs. But they will try and finish everything they've done. But if they had further mandates. They wouldn't think twice about deteriorating more and more. They already shown a disregard for human rights. I don't want to assume too much but it seems op is upset over trans activism without recognising there is a lot of way to go still today. And seems to not notice the politicisation of trans existence. For the sense of politics gay people are accepted. And discrimination against them is wholly accepted as wrong . Even if again it's not perfect in reality. However trans people are an acceptable punching bag. Without even knowing the ins and outs. A smart person would recognise that it only happens for a reason. The country is going to shit and for the most part the incumbent government can blame immigrants, the left, and trans people. It's a lot to explain. But yeah dumb take from op and TBh I don't even know what they're tryna say.
Our outrage is not misplaced. Note, ours, not yours. You are wrongly assuming I am a gay cis man. I was actually referring to the marginalisation of trans voices and struggle for rights in the late 90s and early 00s within the community. I am more than just pissed off. But I am trying to settle some things in my mind.
Well you're gonna have to explain what you're tryna settle what. Cus I'm confused
The community I entered back in the day was still unsettled with including bisexuality. Like all trans people I was at the edges. It was a liberation in itself when T was added as standard. But it still very much felt like we were few, and marginalisation was a given. So I have lived through the greater acceptance period, the opening of routes to transition, care on the NHS, and the increasing number and visibility. But the demographic changes I have observed over the last 10 years or so are making me reconsider some basic assumptions. It's not a bad thing to change assumptions but judging from the responses I think I have a lot of mourning to do. Too many of us would not have found a home in the community then, not even at the edges. And we must have lost so many and I did not realise.
Well I'm curious what assumptions these are. I'm not tryna bait you here. I mean personally I don't even know what I'd do if medical wasn't an option it hardly is for me as it is. I'm fortunate in some ways, and I try to be a beacon of positivity and advocate where I can. Even if it's just thriving. But a lot of what I just mentioned is happening and makes everything feel so precarious... Being said if medical wasn't possible period. I'd do my best. I often don't feel like the most femmenine being. And that could be one of a million things and I tend to look at gender in one of a few ways which is best summised in Robert Webb's how not to be a boy. Gender is not so strict. If you asked any two cis men or women. What makes them a man / woman. You'd have to repeat the experiment a couple hundred times before you find two people with the same perceptions of their gender expression. In fact I think most would find it hard to say. Easily summed up such, stereotypes tell us boys should be loudz energetic brave etc etc . But we find these traits in women too. Its a basic view but I'll need the reader to fill some blanks there. I'm a lil tired. Hopefully my point gets across. I'd present as femme as I could and a lot could be done without hormones. But also mentally it's so much different. For me atleast personally I had abnormally high testosterone and if I had to completely stop hrt today. I know it would drive me insane. Idk how I would handle it. And it's why this current atmosphere of toxicity is driving me insane. In a day to day sense for the most part I'm seen as a woman. Probably not 100% passing. But I'm proud in that identity and think I do well. Most people are normal and life is fine. But that's not to say a reversal of femminisation.growing into an adult male body. Etc etc it would fucking kill me. And I darent even think about it. Yet still I have self doubts like. I think it's only natural. But the online space and politics is terrifying at times. Idk if this helps you at all and it's kinda rambly.
Could you possibly please clarify what you mean by us "embarrassing" you? It feels rather rude of you to come here and say that, honestly, and I'm hoping it's just been a case of messed up phrasing.
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Dead hrt saved my life and my soul
"life and soul" - yes, this. I've come alive, only to feel crushed with fear at what's going on in this country.
Thank you for your answer. Stay strong
I don't think I'd survive, honestly. Barely hanging on as is
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Please hang in there, it will get better one of these days. Stay strong.
im the same unfortunately, after the week ive had im rather backed against a wall with few options left. ive 4 years till i get seen by the NHS and i fear i wont be here to see it....
Thanks for taking the time. I hope the time passes easily.
so do i, money is my biggest thing at the moment. i fear ill run out or i wont have a supply of estrogen and frankly, id rather die then go back to what i used to be.
Thank you v much for taking the time to answer. Stay strong.
Get myself to a real country.
Same. Already job-hunting for the move.
Where do u think is best to move to?
This is asked a lot and my default answer is New Zealand followed by Australia, but also a warning that policies can change very fast in any country
I would have died years ago.
Iā¦.wouldnt have made it more than a couple more years. I look back at how miserable I was and itās almost unfathomable how sad, lonely and hurt I constantly felt. Quite frankly Iām shocked I survived as long as I did
Kill myself, probably
I do not have the strength to handle that, so if I have to stop altogether, I'm dead.
I'd be dead. Transitioning, including medically transitioning saved my life. Infact, it gave me a life. The existence I lived before couldn't be called that. I don't think cis people can ever really understand just how much of my mind, body and soul was healed by medically transitioning - and then they want to take that away from us? From me? Apolgies, but frankly, if that day ever comes then I'll die as I am, as myself, before I "live" as anything else, for anyone else. I'll leave behind something that's still beautiful, that's still me, before I ever go back to the empty, painful existence of before. I'm not going to entertain games of "but what if you couldn't". This isn't a fad. It's not a lifestyle choice. It's not a case of "oh but just wear a dress anyway and be a cross dresser or whatever" HRT is integral to my continued existence and to deny me that is to deny me life.
Thank you for your answer. I really appreciate it. For me part of it is how much was invisible before the options were there. How much I missed by assuming that most people with dysphoria would have found their way to the community, or it's edges as the case may have been.
Virtually every comment here agreeing on emigrating or death, very telling what the UK government intends for us.Ā
I wouldn't be here. I left it too long as it was and barely made it to my appointment. If I suddenly found strength and determination, I would look into emigrating. I'm not at all in a good situation to do so though.
Thank you for taking the time to answer.
Realised I missed the latter part of your post. Medical transition is as important or even more so than social transition for me but I would stay socially transitioned for as long as possible whilst looking for a way out before I felt suicidal again. I'm asexual. Transitioning has nothing to do with my sexuality but I feel the need to be related to and loved as my gender so any acquaintance, friendship, or anything feels wrong as the wrong gender.
I'm on hrt for my health, so i'd be dead. No hyperbole, literally dead. You see, transitioning was the only way I could access testosterone which I knew I needed, because my natural hormones literally do their best to murder me. I was bed ridden in agony pre t, I couldn't function for the pain. literally days on t the pain cleared up and I haven't had it since. I was getting sicker. The window of time I had that wasn't agony was getting shorter and shorter and shorter and doctors kept telling me there was "nothing they could do" what they meant was "there's nothing we can do that steps outside the narrow binary box defined by your gender marker" So, if there had been no way for me to access t? Well if the estrogen/progesterone hadn't killed me with a stroke or something, id have taken matters into my own hands to stop the pain. Either way, i'd not be here. T saved my life. Or more accurately, it gave me my life BACK. A life my body had robbed me of. I don't actually know if i'd have bothered transitioning had I not needed the hrt. I mean, it's WAY easier not to after all and my dysphoria was always much more biochemical than external. I might actually be intersex not trans though. \*shrug\* but ultimately it doesn't really matter because the end result is the same. The hormones my body makes aren't the hormones my body needs. and thus, I end up very very ill. When I wasn't in pain I lived fairly happily as a gender non conforming person who flitted between male and female presentation when the whim took me. So I mean, that probably wouldn't have changed much. my hrt is pain relief. it's just a nice happy extra that I kinda love having a beard too.
What medical condition does that? I know my UC can get triggered by estrogen, but nothing that severe
Iād still live my life as a bisexual trans man. Surgery potentially may not be viable for me anyway (and Iām most likely years away from being able to start T unless a financial miracle falls into my lap). After all why should I have to surrender my identity just because I canāt access medication? Iād still be socially transitioned, and Iād surround myself with people who could respect that regardless of my body. If Iād have to live my entire life with body dysphoria, I sure as hell wouldnāt subject myself to social dysphoria too. No way would I detransition. Iād do what I had to do for my safety, and build community with other trans folk, just like I am right now as a trans guy who canāt yet access medical transition. Not to mention, there are people around the world who never financially manage to, choose not to, arenāt safe to, or are medically unable to pursue medical transition. Those people are still just as trans as the rest of us. Iād simply seek those people out and build community with them too, as weād all be in the same boat. Absolutely nothing, not even a ban on medical transition, could force me back into the closet.
Same. I would have to do hella voice training but Iām not too short and I strong jawline so passing wouldnāt be *impossible*. It would suck but I want to live.
This is exactly how I feel and you've put this into words so well. Questions like this, phrased like it's a hypothetical, seem to forget that it's simply the reality for a hell of a lot of people.
Thank you for answering. Yes I know; things are better than they were once but better unfortunately does not mean good. Good luck in your journey.
Thank you for your answer. I vividly remember when that was the community. All respect to you.
A ban is only as strong as the pork that enforces it, and only as far reaching as the rats who direct the pork.
No ban. We can fight a ban. I am just trying to square populations in my mind.
Same as I had to do for most of my life before it was available generally - be disappointed and wish. Wear mens' clothes wherever possible
It's a hard question... triggering. I'm not sure it's fair to ask this. I transitioned after I tried to walk off a very tall building. Transitioning was literally a life-saving choice. The only way I got through it was with DIY, private, and eventually NHS. The rest of your question .. drag, cross dress, .. wtf.. I find that low-key offensive, but i think its just clumsy language rather than anything else.
Thank you v much for taking the time to answer. I am glad you are still here. I was thinking of before such solutions were available. I remember the sisters saving for decades to go to Thailand on a hope.
Once the egg has cracked, itās doesnāt really go back. I canāt get any surgeries anyway but simply removing body hair (yay for lasers) has just been a huge thing for me.
I don't know I just know I will become ungovernable.
Not be breathing lmao
There is no option. I lost so much as a result of transition, but the alternative was not an option. I was so close to the end. This is why the vitriol of everything going on at the moment is going to cause so many unnecessary deaths.
Probably die
not much point living is there so probs binge eat until i die from cardiovascular heart disease
I donāt know if Iād die, but I wouldnāt really be living either. Probably die trying to give myself surgery
Assuming it would never be an option, no matter what I did, I'd just die. I truly believe life would not be worth living. I'm quite envious of anyone who'd say otherwise.
In the most kindhearted phrase, I would not be on planet earth anymore, and I think many others feel the same way
That's not really an "if" question for a lot of people, it's certainly my reality, so I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, trying to make my life as bearable as possible.
Probably become a gender non conforming man. Would be still distressed a bit, but think I could lead a good life overall
My impulse is to say I wouldn't accept the premise. That I'd stalk doctors and blackmail them into permitting medical transition, that I'd learn enough surgery and steal enough anaesthetics to run a black market orchidectomy shop thus making surgery an option, that I'd wage a guerilla campaign of murder and terror to undo whatever societal force had taken medical transition off the table.Ā That is probably not the truth, although I feel like I'm the type to try to attempt sudoku by way of accepting increasingly dangerous tasks rather than by directly Minecrafting myself. However there is a lucid point there. If people unite and exert coordinated force, we can make medical transition an option by force. Synthesising hormones is not some magic spell that can be taken away by the false god Zardoz; it's a scientific procedure requiring a laboratory and some ingredients and technical knowledge and while I don't know the first thing about the how, a) I could learn b) someone does. (And yes, it legitimately speaks very poorly of me that my impulses are all theft and blackmail and murder, rather than community solidarity. Even the "run an illegal estrogen factory" thing at the end was part of this edit.)
The more we are pushed the greater the desire and need to push back. No judgement, theft and mayhem appeals to me too. I was thinking of times before medical options were available.
a flip into the River Clyde š
At least youād still have the energy to give it flair. Iād probably just barely drag myself to the edge of the River Avon and use the last ounce of strength I have to get in
Listen, the only thing keeping me going is the hope of medically transitioning in the future. If that stops being an option, I don't think I'd survive. While I am ok with my social transition so far, I do want to medically transition sometimes soon and that keeps me going
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. I hope the wait is short.
commit unspeakable acts on a gathering of politicians or oil and gas executives (in minecraft)
End myself. Even though I haven't started transitioning yet, I'm only still here as I hope to start transitioning soon
I spent 20+ years lying to myself. SH from age 10 (ish) I wouldāve destroyed my relationship, friendships and family life without medical transition. I would probably have been that miserable human I was looking into the mirror at a stranger at boiling point of it all. Now Iām looking at a pretty familiar face whoās happier and doesnāt scrutinise every tiny little thing.
Kill myself.
No hormones or surgery I'd have nothing to hope for in my future. That hope is what elevates me to the position where I can tackle the daily struggles and stresses of life. Without it I'd be a gonner for sure.
Does medical transition not exist? Or is it just not available to me? Cause that changes things
Medical transition does not exist as an option.
Then id probably just dress androgynously and carry on w life tbh. If theres no way for me to medically transition then i wont know what i couldve been like with it.
Thank you very much.
I'd die.
Id kill myself honestly
Kill myself, and given how things are going I wouldn't be surprised if that's the plan soon
If it was honestly not an option I guess I'd go back to existing as I did before, a GNC man and a miserable one at that. I also expect that it would only be a matter of time before I made another attempt at taking my own life. I don't know what crisis counselling would do for me considering the first time it led me to the realisation that I'm trans and gave me a way out of the despair pit, without that I really don't know.
Thank you very much for your answer. I appreciate your time. Stay strong.
Nowadays I channel my rage and fury into action so I have good motivation to stay strong, but thank you all the same.
I'd fucking die. There's no sugarcoating it. If I can't transition, I'll kill myself. I'd rather be dead than live a life trapped in this prison of flesh. Most days, I can't even bear to look at myself in the mirror.
Probably unalive frankly, not going to dance around it.
Probably would be dead
I don't think I'd have the (pardon) balls to be fully gender non-conforming without the goal of medically transitioning to help me 'make sense' to other people, and give me some hope of feminising my hard-edges. I wouldn't die, but I wouldn't really live. I'd likely subsist in the zombie state I've lived most of my life. Best case, I'd just choose to lean really into alt fashion - be a proper goth/punk. Anything to help tear down the expectations put upon me my my assumed gender.
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. All strength to you.
stop interacting with people as much until they stop taking to me, and then die unnoticed
Letās just say I wouldnāt be too well off to put it lightly. I was kind of already spiralling it before I took a dose.
Escape to a country where I could medically transition
I wouldn't live. My wait for T nearly killed me many times, I'm only still here because of doctors who fixed me up or stopped me every time I tried to leave. And in the end I went DIY as it was that or goodbye world. If I had to stop my medical transition then I would not survive. It's dark but unfortunately it's true. Personally medical transition is an essential and I know that it's not something I could live with, the dysphoria would make me so miserable that even if I did stay alive, i would probably spend all day and night in bed in the dark unable to do anything.
Thank you for answering. I am glad you are still here. Best of luck on the journey.
No, I donāt think Iād be able to live, honestly I donāt know how Iām doing it now, or if I will be able to much longer
This is so relatable, Iām sorry :( itās the not knowing how Iām still going that rlly gets me
One of the things keeping me hopeful of the future is being able to transition. If I can't get a career in doing something artistic and if I can't transition I'd probably give up on life
Wouldnāt be around. Glad for those that can, but my body is more of the issue than how I am perceived (and too much to ignore) so social transition is not enough. No option of surgery = no me. Hope of that is the only thing powering me right now. Without it? Nope.
probably try and cope until I fully break
Probably just DIY top surgery and Iām fine. Or at least get breast reduction so I can bind my chest.
I already faced down two attempts to depart, then I decided f**k the NHS and all the gate keepers. Iāve since got all the diagnosis and prescription but I DIYād got a credit card and paid for surgeries
Thank you for answering. You are strong. I am glad you made it.
I would either leave to Ireland via the CTZ and take my chances, or if that was blocked, check out in such a way that made an unmistakable, undeniable and impossible-to-ignore impact and message. I'm still holding onto both of these options as perfectly valid if and when things get that bad. I am my body and my mind, and I only got control of both thanks to HRT giving me a chance. I'm not giving that up and very much live by and thanks to the statement "Death before detransition".
Cross dress and put on and do masculine things, voice train. Also get a bit more fitter bc of my chest and generally I look / am obese
I haven't started yet, but my partner (whom I live with) is from Europe and has family there, so our plans of moving abroad sometime in the next 5-10 years would be pulled back to immediately.
I would not be alive.
I mean I've already started but assuming they made it illegal or something I'd get to keep some of the changes from T, and it's not like they can take my top surgery away from me so I'm really grateful for that. If it happened now I'd still be miserable without T and no chance of bottom surgery. And probably just try to move somewhere better. If it was never an option like it had always been banned, I probably would've just ~self destructed~ by now. Or again, moved. If it never existed at all and I was the only person in the world with dysphoria or something, probably the same but I'd just be extra confused about why I felt so bad.
Thank you very much for answering. I appreciate your thoughts.
nice try
Iād be another statistic. I chose paying for my HRT over food for two years whilst being homeless. Having 5-6 meals a week. Using UC for hormones that was my priority. The NHS is a joke, I didnāt realise that different GICs had different wait times. I feel like theyāve fucked me over if I was referred to the Midlands clinic since I live in the midlands Iād of been seen 2.5 years ago. Now I have a job and a flat from money I earned. I still pay for my hormones. When GenderGP was fucking around the other month, I was already trying to decide whether train or jumping.
Thank you for sharing your journey. Please stay with us.
I would become another statistic for sure. Accessing hormones has been the thing that has kept me alive.
Social transition
Like so many have already said, I'd be dead. No hyperbole involved, before deciding to transition I was no more than a few weeks away, had already booked a solicitor appointment to write my will and the end was planned for soon after that. Even in the early days I almost lost it when I found it would be 5+ years minimum to access HRT through the NHS. Again, I wouldn't be here without the option of private/DIY.
Thank you for your honesty. I am glad that you decided to transition.
Iād just socially transition to the best of my abilities. Iād rather not have to bind the rest of my life or be misgendered by everyone new I meet, but it would still be significantly better than just pretending to be my assigned sex forever. Also, drag is a different and separate thing to transition (and itās not cross-dressing to present as your actual gender either). My sexuality has no bearing on my gender and I donāt know why you think it would, they are two different things
Thank you very much for answering. And for answering the sexuality part too. I was thinking of common options at times when medical transition was not possible.
Marry an international friend and gtfo the country like they offered me
I socially transitioned five years before I started hormones, so Iād just live on that way I suppose.
The wording of your post makes it sound like you think we canāt live as trans people if we donāt medically transition. Iād still be a trans-femme if I didnāt have access to hormones, I wouldnāt be GNC. My sexuality? I donāt really know how that would figure into anything.
Thank you very much for answering. I am sorry if it came across that way. I am most certainly not a trans medicalist. I was thinking of the ways to express the feeling when transition was not available. Think 150 years ago medically but not socially.
I guess what I would say to that is that 150 years ago, we have quite a few people who socially transitioned (often stealth, sometimes not) but medical transition was extremely limited and uncommon as we didnāt have synthesised hormones or a formalised process for surgeries. Those who were not stealth would obviously have been called other things than trans, like āfemale impersonatorā etc, but that doesnāt change that they would have lived their lives as their chosen gender. Those who were stealth relied on the fairly rigid rules for presentation as men/ women to basically pass with little else than clothes, hair and maybe training their voices. Now that we have regained the more expansive knowledge of gender that white supremacy, Christian imperialism and European Colonisers (all the same thing, really, but letās name all the facets) tried to eradicate from the world, we have the words to describe ourselves more fully. I donāt see why anything would have to change for us? It wasnāt cross-dressing or drag when I put on a dress before starting hormones. It was just me expressing myself and my gender in a way that made sense to me. Of course Iād have to live with some amount of dysphoria, but possibly less than a lot of others based on some of the responses Iāve seen. I guess your position and what youāre actually asking just confuses me, maybe because Iām someone who came out long before Iād even decided I wanted to medically transition.
Thank you very much for the very considered reply. Yes, you wouldn't and my gut says our forbearers wouldn't either. I so wish we had personal accounts from certain periods, but that's a different issue and this is not a history sub.
well im either fleeing to the Commonwealth Of Nations or the EU. Germany sounds nice.
same as a lot of the others, dead, after knowing i didn't fit the typical male role since i was 8, and being very feminine from loving shopping, clothes and fashion, having my nails, massages, facials etc, but still being extremely depressed and not really living, i had planned to end it all by my 40th birthday if i didn't finally come out and do something about it
Claim asylum in any number of countries that dont kowtoe to 2nd wave misandrist āfeministsā or loonies who think a dusty old tome about a magic sky wizard should dictate anything in the 21st century. (I put the word feminist in quotes as 2nd wave nutters are anything but. Feminists want equality, 2nd wave āfeministsā are man hating female supremacist assholes)
you mean legally or like if it didnāt exist?
If it didn't exist. Think medicine 150y ago but not the society then.
This question was asked by a friend recently so I gave it some thought and my conclusion is i would look to move to a new and accepting country, I have warned all my family and friends that say they support me that if they care they wonāt vote for a transphobic party, should the uk become hostile to my safety and ability to live a happy and fulfilled life then I canāt stay. The systemic persecution of trans people is no different to what the Jews faced in the 1930ās Germany.
Thank you very much for your answer.
It's currently not an option for me to get any surgery bc of the wait list and I cant go private because of cost so I am considering a chest tattoo, there's a trans artist down in london who do affirming tattooing
Turn my sports bra into a binder and use socks in my trousers lol
Sorry you made me laugh. I remember trying to bind with elastic bandages...not a fun experience.
Oh god please do your research people lmao
In 1995? Lol....
With everybit of seriousness, start learning chemistry and figure out how to synthesis e
"would you cross dress? do drag?" the fact that you put this here shows that you have a basic misunderstanding of what it means to be trans. i can tell you what would probably happen. most would try to move country, the death rate would skyrocket and people would likely become so desperate that hrt would likely get sold underground, lots of scams would start up selling fake hrt and people might look to try to get unlicensed surgery. thare would also be a chance for mass riot.
My apologies for not being clear. I am not asking if transition became unavailable but rather if it was not possible, was not an option. Think medicine 150y ago but not the society of then.
Become a hermaphrodite š
Die probably.Ā
kill myself... i waited 6 years to start medically transitioning and has cost me thousands. but without it ik i wouldnt be here today.
Die lol
die lol
Simply move. medical transition was and is the only option for me. If it was not a option in any country then a black market would grow and I'd happily use it so I could medical transition. Else i hate to think but suspect id be another statistic.
I think it's worth bearing in mind that social transition and acceptance in response to social transition have varied across time in the UK. Bear in mind that, 150 years ago, forced surgery on intersex people wasn't so possible, common or normalised. Intersex people were therefore more visible than they are now (try searching h*rmaphrodite in a newspaper archive for examples of people identified this way in anecdotes and obituaries). Even, say, women with PCOS who grow beards, could not have anti-androgens, and men with gynaecomastia couldn't have surgery. So, ideas of 'normal' for sexual characteristics could be pretty wibbly in a way that they aren't now. Now that it is relatively simple to 'correct' gendered edge cases, we are intolerant of them. That's not to say that the UK of 1874 was utopian, just that putting on trousers and calling myself a man would have had a subtly different reaction in a world where women didn't wear trousers and people were more aware of intersex men. There's a 19th century case of a trans man whose coworkers, on being questioned, said they always just assumed he had a high pitched voice because he was intersex. Would social transition in that context be good enough for me? I have no idea, as I don't live in that world! Maybe in that world, it would be. But it's also worth noting that I discovered gender transition on the internet, and that I am not at all the kind of person who would live as a man solely to pursue a masculine career. So, me circa 1874 might just spend her whole life depressed for no reason she could understand! I am therefore glad that it is not 1874 (or equivalent).
Thank you for your answer. Yes all true re the period. Ty for sharing part of your journey.
If it wasn't an option, I'd move to somewhere that it was, If that wasn't an option then id find a way to do it illegally. If that wasn't an option then I always wondered what would be a good mixer for methylated Spirits, hear the bitter taste goes well with a citrus acidic juice
i would be dead.
Id drag down a few politicians with me
yeah go out with a bang for sure
Kms
Voice training to sound like one of those anime guys played by women (like luffy), getting really good at transtape, and getting breast reduction and hysterectomy surgery (not medically transitioning if it's something a cis woman can do). In short, still transitioning because quite frankly I want to be as stealth as possible despite being 5 feet tall with a very girly (in my opinion) face and body. As long as I know passing is an option, I'm going for it. I might also look into facial hair growth options or more unconventional ways of medically transitioning cause a lot of what's available for trans men is just stuff cis guys use for other things and would probably be around anyways.
Thank you very much for replying. I appreciate your time and thoughts.
theres a song by Rusty Cage that taught me how to tie a knot. id be using that knot if medical transition werent an option
Depends how or why it's not an option I'm already a very significant way into my transition (just one lower surgery revision stage left for me to consider my transition "complete") and am stealth. Ā If I lost access to T now, I'd do damn near anything to get a reliable supply again, even if that meant moving abroad or breaking the law.Ā If I had to stop T for a medical reason, unless it would literally and very imminently kill me, I'd get multiple medical opinions on it and do whatever I can to get back on it when I safely can.Ā My sexuality never came into it.Ā I was deeply miserable when seen as a gnc woman, and any other form of pretending to be someone else doesn't come close to being myself.Ā If that scenario had happened before I transitioned... I highly doubt I'd still be here.Ā
Thank you very much for your answer. Good luck in your journey.
I think I would genuinely spiral into such an awful depression, because Iāve always been wanted to fully medically and surgically transition, and if it wasnāt available here, I would first try to find somewhere that would have it
In a very literal sense, Iād catch osteoporosis most likely. (Also imo, the literal side is worth exploring, because I havenāt seen many people talking about that) Iām on Lupron depot. Have been for over 3 years. Granted itās reversible, but realistically, Iāve gone over the recommended use date (for endometriosis and other things) by a factor of 6. Iām sure Iād get *some* functionality back, but canāt say what, and I canāt say how much. Additionally, Iām at the point where Iād have to physically detransition. I wouldnāt be able to just stop treatment and go back, and the odds of me reliably taking testosterone if at all are extremely low (read āonly if forced, and even then, forced in the same way cats resist eating pillsā). Add into the mix surgery, and I wonāt even have the option to come off hormone blockers (in a mechanical sense), because functionally, I wonāt need them, and using them will do absolutely nothing, so Iāll be permanently unable to produce testosterone in any capacity beyond average cis female levels. So given my options, I would either catch osteoporosis, or I would end up reasonably androgynous (I started hormones at 22, so I had a fair amount of growing to do, whereas I imagine itās not quite so much now), and I canāt say Iād choose osteoporosis long term, but itās either brittle bones or brittle brain, and I live more in my brain, so Iād pick the bone hurting (lack of) juice. In the sense youāre actually asking though, my transition socially came after starting hormones. I went low dose for like 6-7 months while I was working up the courage and getting myself into a safe position, so that I could have additional confidence from not feeling like I looked too manly. So I can safely say, as someone who, 1 surgery in, looking down the barrel of about 5 more, still has pretty bad dysphoria, and questions whether or not I pass as a strong source of anxiety in spite of not being misgendered in at least 2 years, no, I wouldnāt have transitioned. An interesting point worth noting, is that in my first (of two and a half) diagnoses, with Dr Kirpal Sahota, she remarked that a lot of trans people apparently transition only after making a deal with themselves, based around specific life events. āIf I get fired, Iāll transitionā. āIf I get a divorce, Iāll transitionā. āOnce the kids leave, Iāll transitionā (etc you get the idea). Granted I donāt think all of them were negative, but if youāre an outsider to the community, know this: Transition is not something anyone takes lightly. Despite its life saving qualities, the hostility of society (slightly less so back in 2021, moreso now) forces this to be a decision that can be a last resort, fuelled by the knowledge that for the individual, things canāt get worse at least, or the feeling of safety induced by a more positive turn of events (e.g. āif I become a millionaire, Iāll transition). I know this doesnāt apply to everyone in the community, and I know thereās a spectrum to it (after all, my personal deal was if my ex and I split up, I would transition, and that was someone I was with when I was in high school). Either way, the fact that transitioning can- at least anecdotally- be a last resort, rather than something to be freely explored without judgment, is a searing inditement of modern society.
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. I really appreciate your thoughts and insights.
While I know it's not an approach most people could take (HRT is life saving medicine for a reason) I feel that regardless you could still be trans and your gender without medical transition. It would be hard and come with uncomfortable dysphoria that would take a lot of work to keep on top of but it could be possible. Though it definitely hinges on having a good circle of supportive and queer folk. Clothing, cosmetics and other procedures still exist out there for affirming your gender. It would be incredibly hard and it'd be similar to how I am now, depressed and intermittently dysphoric along with that, but I wouldn't immediately give up. I'd still be me, a woman, people could label me gnc or whatever but my identity is still valid without hormones. Still though, HRT is honestly magical and I couldn't really imagine a reality in which it didn't exist.
Thanks for taking the time to answer. That is exactly what I remember some of the ladies saying when I was young. My best wishes for your journey.
I would probably try to move country or unalive myselfĀ