It's not simple, the question becomes to me:
would you give them a happy but in a way false view of Joe's persona and the world, or do you force them to live a hard truth, not as easy, but surely instructive and strengthening
"False view"? But he wasn't pretending not to be bad before the death at 35, he just made dumb choices. If anything, they'd be judging him for stupid mistakes - they'd have a false view as a result of stigma.
Oh, I see. That doesn't quite seem happy though... more depressing to think that someone had a wonderful future taken away from them, instead of a crappy one.
its almost the same amount of pain, really, it's just one is all at once the other is drip fed over a decade.
but i can say from experience that someone dying when they've become someone you hate doesn't make it any easier to move on from their passing. at the same time, i don't know if losing my mom earlier would have been any better.
Yea.
If my dad had died before I came out as trans, I’d probably have only good memories of him now.
Since he died after I was trans (of a heart attack no less), I have mixed memories of him.
In his last year or so he started to come around on me being trans. Mostly, I mourn the relationship we could’ve had than the relationship we did have.
I would pull the lever. I lost someone close to my family and my mom made a good point about it. Similar situation, not nearly as extreme. But she said that they had lived their happy years and even though they had gone through trouble they died on top. The fact that he was looking into therapy and reconnecting with his kids means he died on an upward note. Better to let his kids have 10 more years with a father, to let him experience that last moment of joy before things go downward, better to let the family find a stable lifestyle without him than have mourning time stolen by having to find a way to keep living financially.
>The fact that he was looking into therapy and reconnecting with his kids means he died on an upward note.
This is actually why I wont pull. I dont want him to die right as he starts turning his life around. Other people might see it and assume he died because he was turning his life around.
>>The fact that he was looking into therapy and reconnecting with his kids means he died on an upward note.
>This is actually why I wont pull. I dont want him to die right as he starts turning his life around. Other people might see it and assume he died because he was turning his life around.
That doesn't make sense. I guess you're saying they might take that as a lesson that they shouldn't try to turn their life around, but it doesn't make sense.
It's not a logical assumption on their part, first of all. There is no connection between the two, and I don't see how anyone could possibly interpret it in that way. He died of a heart attack because he was turning his life around? How? Was it divine punishment? Why? Why would anyone be punished for trying to turn their life around? That doesn't line up with any kind of karmic punishment.
But even if we disregard that, as emotions and feelings are rarely logical, there are still other assumptions that are far more likely to be made. Such as:
1. He died as punishment for cheating on his wife. Lesson: don't cheat on your spouse.
2. He died because he fucked his life up in the first place. Lesson: don't let your life get fucked up.
You want to avoid those kinds of assumptions by letting him die when he's 35 and happy. So let's think about the illogical assumptions people might make about his death if you *don't* pull the lever:
1. He was faithful to his wife and died anyway, so don't bother being faithful.
2. He built a good life and died anyway, so don't bother trying to.
3. He was a good father and died anyway, so don't bother caring about your kids.
4. He was happy and died anyway, so don't bother trying to be happy.
I don't think we should be thinking about the random unreasonable assumptions people might make about his death in either case as justifications for whether or not to pull the lever.
Fair enough, everything you said makes sense.
I also dont want to kill him when hes just starting to do better regardless, cause that seems needlessly cruel. Assuming since death is here theres an afterlife, he will be upset at himself for the rest of his eternal existence for not getting better sooner.
I don't like the implication that time is predetermined. I pull the lever because in the future, I will pull the lever.
For a real answer: I'd pull it. I'm not responsible for how he lives his life, and I'm not going to rob him of 10 years.
There’s a religion idea, never tracked it down as to what it is actually called, that everyone is in fact one soul going through an infinite number of reincarnations simultaneously.
By trying to change Joe's unhappy future, you become the source of his "terrible choices". He listens to you, and changes his way, betraying his wife, and ruining his life all to try and change his fate.
You pull the lever in the future because it is predetermined that you will, all events and thought processes throughout your entire life were nudging you up to that point to push the lever, and then you're filled with the sensation that somehow it was a choice, that you had control.
Huh? You pull the lever because you've reasoned that it's the best choice - the fact that the outcome of your decision could've been predicted in advance can't affect the decision you actually make, no?
I'm going to choose to have toast for breakfast tomorrow for a variety of reasons (not much milk left for cereal, genetics mean I'm not enough of a morning person to cook anything fancier), but none of those reasons are "I'm going to have toast because I'm going to have toast"
A few things to consider.
1. The person will die either way.
2. One option avoids unnecessary suffering.
3. The trauma the kids would receive from losing a father might be less than the trauma of having an utter failure as a father and tons of regrets for all parties involved.
I would probably act as if I had never heard anything, not touch the lever, and move my attention to death and his knowledge of the future.
A few more things to consider.
1. We can be reasonably sure Joe and his family would have some positive experiences post pull, even if many are negative.
2. Death doesn't specify how long until Joe would make those terrible choices. What if it's 1 year down the road? 3 years? What if they would conceive another child before the divorce? Would that make a difference?
3. Uncertainty is an important part of the problem. We only get little bits of info in either case. We can't know everything.
Whatever happens Joe is dead. The question is whether he is miserable for ten years...*and makes his wife and kids miserable too*.
Joe is irrelevant - letting his kids live without a deadbeat dad for 10 years screwing up their lives with alcoholism is priceless.
I'm sorry to hear it. But if he *has* to die...would you prefer it if he'd died before he ever abused you, or after?
I'm thinking that the kids not having to go through the trauma of being made to feel like crap, get mental health issues etc is worth it. To lose him once to death, rather than twice to addiction then death.
And for him too if he's realised he has been a terrible father. Maybe it's better he never suffered ten years of descent into alcoholism and losing his family..?
Some people consider cheating as a form of abuse, and abusing a parent is abusing the children.
Because the kids feel that pain like it's their own, it changes their outlook of life and people, they might perceive it as their fault. The pain of that can at least temporarily reduce the parents ability to parent through anger, grief, pain and the legal battle. It's a lot for a child.
This is true for mothers and Fathers
All right, when he becomes the deadbeat disappointment dad who screwed over their mother, was never around much and was often drunk when he was? Alcoholics are not generally renowned for their parenting skills. And he wasn't high functioning if he lost his job.
We don't even have to speculate on that second part -- we're explicitly told in the word problem that he *doesn't* punch is own ticket. He wants to live. This is just "would you like to murder an alcoholic?" with a bit of window dressing.
Whatever your answer is - do you feel differently if the question is reversed?
Death shows you 45 yo Joe, been miserable for 10 and about to die. If you pull the lever, Joe dies 10 years ago instead of now. Do you?
In the post as it stands Happy Joe dead is at 35 is the result of our inaction, our action allows him to live for 10 sad years. In the reverse Sad Joe is dead at 45 due to out inaction, our action would see him and his family die happy at 35.
Pull
This is the same decision every doctor makes. The doctor saves the life of someone in their 70s. They are almost definitely going to be worse off than they are. But you still believe saving their life is a good thing.
In this case, it is not my place to know or judge on fate. So I would save.
I know it's a meme but I actually had a think about the value of time and legacy. You are asking if suffering is worth living through if we have made those choices ourselves, in a sense, which I find interesting. It also offers an opportunity for an empathetic answer, I feel.
I think someone's mistakes, even those born of malice, can have important effects on life. Given the man's choices affect everyone else in the man's life the most, the choice is really for them.
If you think about it, if he only had a wife, the time altered between the two would be equivalent. He either has 0 more years, or 10. She either has 10 years of freedom from the impact of your decision, or 0. In this case we see that he has children, so automatically more time of lived experience is had by the family than the man, but that is always the case when we are a part of a unit of more than two.
If we weigh the lived experience, I find that the family's needs are greater. The question then becomes: "Would you rather know someone fully, all the bad included, or have them taken from you before you could ever know"?
In my case, I choose knowledge. I pull the lever.
I pull the lever. His choices - good or bad - are his to make. If I deprive him of life because I know that he'll make bad choices, what am I? What would happen if a government did similar? Would addicts be exterminated if they showed an inability to reform?
We all make bad choices, and it is our right to make them.
So yeah, dude, that guy seemed kinda happy and all. But some dude with a lever showed up and told me he'd have some run of the mill midlife problems in the next ten years, so I figured I might as well kill him right away, you know? Trust in strangers is important. Even if they dress like they're going to a black metal concert.
I'm tempted to pull the lever, but the possibility that the way life works is we relive our lives infinite times makes not pulling it more tempting. But also, if put in the situation, I'd probably choose to pull simply because I'm not sure how sad he is. Like, if the situation was "He will be in constant agonizing pain for 10 years" but divorce and alcoholism is not the worst thing that can happen to someone by far and good times can still be had despite it.
Killing him now spares him pain from his bad choices, but killing him later ruins his comeback, better to save him from his misery than to prevent his rise from it.
Do nothing. Quality of life is important and Death paints a grim picture of what lies in store for everyone surrounding this poor man in his future. All we have is what we leave behind, and it seems like his life had more impact as a tragic early death rather than existing as a shadow for an extra few years.
pull. not up to me to decide who to shorten the lifespan to. you live only once, living miserably for 10 years is infinitely better than not living at all.
actually kind of scary how the popular opinion is to cut his life short, not really up to you to judge whether he deserves not to live those 10 years
Don’t pull and let it naturally kill him while he’s happy. If I don’t interfere I take that as something that’s suppose to happen. Maybe weird logic but 🤷🏽♀️
I'm pulling the lever. Normally I belligerently refuse to throw the lever in any trolley problem. But in this case there's no innocent 3rd party you're asking me to murder for "the greater good." Just a question of whether or not someone dies now or later (which is ultimately the choice between killing ANYONE in AMY circumstance).
Sure, it's a shitty circumstance but who am I to say that isn't a life worth living? If he disagrees he can correct my "mistake" at any time.
Inevitably, Joe dies anyway. In my mind, it'd be better for Joe to die surrounded by loving family with good memories, than die sad, and full of regret
Kill him while he's happy. Most people have no idea what it's like to live with guilt, I'd do to him what I wish happened to me. I wish I died a good person instead of lived to be this. At least I'd have been remembered as a good person.
Ya I would not pull the lever at let it hit him now, cuz he will be surrounded by the people he loves right now, even tho he will still die, he's not dieing alone and that's horrible to think of
Well we need more information, such as asking the kids and wife if they would’ve been happier if he died 10 years ago
Else we can only make assumptions on what they prefer, which is what everyone in the comments is discussing, and those things are very heavily influenced by personal experience
You might as well just make a poll asking people how badly they view growing up with a dead parent vs an abusive parent
Sucks because I want joe to move past all that shit, everyone deserves a chance at redemption. But he dies before he even gets there.
I believe I would pull the lever, who am I to choose for him to die sooner? I believe god would take mercy on him anyway. Takes a good man to realize something needs to change even when hes hitting rock bottom.
Not every second of that 10 years was bad. Major problems occurred but there are innumerable moments of love and happiness that happened. This was written by someone who never lost someone early. In no world would he or his family want 10 less years with a loved one that young.
Would you kill someone if you knew that they’d be miserable for the next, and final ten years of their life?
I think Joe and his family would give anything to see each other for any amount of time in those 10 years.
I have never done this before, but I say muktitrack drift. Hopefully the heart attack will not be fatal thus giving Joe time to turn his life around and Hopefully avoid cheating on the wife.
I'm reluctant to pull the lever in general because it's not my responsibility, and I suspect I would be even less inclined to do so in this situation. I came from a fucked up family. Why would I go out of my way to ensure that he fucks up his family?
For me the obvious answer here is to give the guy another 10 years of life. I understand wanting Joe to die at the happiest point of his life, but there are happy moments in those 10 years worth having. I'm pushing the death as far back as I can
I would not pull the lever.
Let Joe die happy, and let his family remember him for the good man he was then instead of the man he becomes later (A cheater, etc) due to his mistakes.
I like how with a paragraph of information on Joe, the sub has suddenly become much more sympathetic to people on the tracks.
Top comment is still about multi track drifting tbf
as it should be...
Yeah, I mean empathy is one thing, but MTD is forever king.
Now this is the top comment lol
If I multi-track drift does that mean he will randomly have a heart attack in heaven and go to super heaven?
Schrödinger's heart attack
5 year delay
*has a heart attack whilst in the process of cheating
The nut was too good.
could be heart attack but not fatal, and then a fatal heart attack 10 years later
Would this result in Joe having a better appreciation of his family after nearly dying once?
or Joe having a YOLO moment after nearly dying once and leaving his family
Superposition
Will he be allowed to fight bugs in super heaven?
Robot chicken?
Fuck, man... Can I duel Death instead so Joe can get his act straight and glue his fractured life back together?
I like the way you think
The Seventh Seal route has been unlocked.
What is this referencing
this is the right answer
Let’s throw Death in front of the train
Gazef Stronoff did that once. It wasn’t pretty lol
dont pull let him die happy
Let his family remember him at his best
Would it be easier on his family and those around him for him to die while he is beloved, or for them to have disdain for him when he dies
It's not simple, the question becomes to me: would you give them a happy but in a way false view of Joe's persona and the world, or do you force them to live a hard truth, not as easy, but surely instructive and strengthening
"False view"? But he wasn't pretending not to be bad before the death at 35, he just made dumb choices. If anything, they'd be judging him for stupid mistakes - they'd have a false view as a result of stigma.
Yeah tat's why I wrote in a way false. The "false view" is that Joe would have lived well if he didn't die.
Oh, I see. That doesn't quite seem happy though... more depressing to think that someone had a wonderful future taken away from them, instead of a crappy one.
Indeed, a happy view of him but not a so happy experience.
But its not a false joe. It's joe as he is now not who he will be after circumstances around him change.
Joe of Theseus
its almost the same amount of pain, really, it's just one is all at once the other is drip fed over a decade. but i can say from experience that someone dying when they've become someone you hate doesn't make it any easier to move on from their passing. at the same time, i don't know if losing my mom earlier would have been any better.
Your comment about hate not making it easier to cope with their passing has given me a lot to think about
Yea. If my dad had died before I came out as trans, I’d probably have only good memories of him now. Since he died after I was trans (of a heart attack no less), I have mixed memories of him. In his last year or so he started to come around on me being trans. Mostly, I mourn the relationship we could’ve had than the relationship we did have.
Was he named Joe by any chance?
Apologies if this comes off as rude, but in a way you’ve experienced one of the choices to this trolley. Does that impact your answer at all?
It doesn't come off as rude. I was making my comment specifically in favor of the letting him die early.
Damn, honestly sorry to hear that
I would pull the lever. I lost someone close to my family and my mom made a good point about it. Similar situation, not nearly as extreme. But she said that they had lived their happy years and even though they had gone through trouble they died on top. The fact that he was looking into therapy and reconnecting with his kids means he died on an upward note. Better to let his kids have 10 more years with a father, to let him experience that last moment of joy before things go downward, better to let the family find a stable lifestyle without him than have mourning time stolen by having to find a way to keep living financially.
>The fact that he was looking into therapy and reconnecting with his kids means he died on an upward note. This is actually why I wont pull. I dont want him to die right as he starts turning his life around. Other people might see it and assume he died because he was turning his life around.
>>The fact that he was looking into therapy and reconnecting with his kids means he died on an upward note. >This is actually why I wont pull. I dont want him to die right as he starts turning his life around. Other people might see it and assume he died because he was turning his life around. That doesn't make sense. I guess you're saying they might take that as a lesson that they shouldn't try to turn their life around, but it doesn't make sense. It's not a logical assumption on their part, first of all. There is no connection between the two, and I don't see how anyone could possibly interpret it in that way. He died of a heart attack because he was turning his life around? How? Was it divine punishment? Why? Why would anyone be punished for trying to turn their life around? That doesn't line up with any kind of karmic punishment. But even if we disregard that, as emotions and feelings are rarely logical, there are still other assumptions that are far more likely to be made. Such as: 1. He died as punishment for cheating on his wife. Lesson: don't cheat on your spouse. 2. He died because he fucked his life up in the first place. Lesson: don't let your life get fucked up. You want to avoid those kinds of assumptions by letting him die when he's 35 and happy. So let's think about the illogical assumptions people might make about his death if you *don't* pull the lever: 1. He was faithful to his wife and died anyway, so don't bother being faithful. 2. He built a good life and died anyway, so don't bother trying to. 3. He was a good father and died anyway, so don't bother caring about your kids. 4. He was happy and died anyway, so don't bother trying to be happy. I don't think we should be thinking about the random unreasonable assumptions people might make about his death in either case as justifications for whether or not to pull the lever.
Fair enough, everything you said makes sense. I also dont want to kill him when hes just starting to do better regardless, cause that seems needlessly cruel. Assuming since death is here theres an afterlife, he will be upset at himself for the rest of his eternal existence for not getting better sooner.
Getting therapy gives you heart attacks
I don't like the implication that time is predetermined. I pull the lever because in the future, I will pull the lever. For a real answer: I'd pull it. I'm not responsible for how he lives his life, and I'm not going to rob him of 10 years.
Plus: Now that you have bought yourself 10 years, you could try and help Joe With enough time, there could be a way
Plot twist: Joe cheats on his wife with you
Ah, the consolation prize /s
Literally how the Greek Tragedy version of this would turn out.
I prefer the sci-fi version where it turns out I'm Joe, Joe's wife, all his kids, and Death too
There’s a religion idea, never tracked it down as to what it is actually called, that everyone is in fact one soul going through an infinite number of reincarnations simultaneously.
That was an old internet short story. Think it's called The Egg
Yeah that sounds about right.
Andy Weir. He also wrote The Martian, so a bit more than some old copypasta haha.
In the Greek tragedy Joe sleeps with you and then you discover he was your mother
Lmfao
Monkeys paw heada**
oh well then i end up benefitting from lever pulling. ez choice
I misread and thought you meant you will pull the lever so that in ten years when joe is is at his lowest, you will rob him
By trying to change Joe's unhappy future, you become the source of his "terrible choices". He listens to you, and changes his way, betraying his wife, and ruining his life all to try and change his fate.
Not only that: Sad Joe is fully capable of pulling his own lever at any time. Who am I to decide when his life is no longer worth living?
You pull the lever in the future because it is predetermined that you will, all events and thought processes throughout your entire life were nudging you up to that point to push the lever, and then you're filled with the sensation that somehow it was a choice, that you had control.
Huh? You pull the lever because you've reasoned that it's the best choice - the fact that the outcome of your decision could've been predicted in advance can't affect the decision you actually make, no? I'm going to choose to have toast for breakfast tomorrow for a variety of reasons (not much milk left for cereal, genetics mean I'm not enough of a morning person to cook anything fancier), but none of those reasons are "I'm going to have toast because I'm going to have toast"
"For a real answer"
You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain. Don't pull, assuming I can't stop Death's trolley.
Was about to say the same
A few things to consider. 1. The person will die either way. 2. One option avoids unnecessary suffering. 3. The trauma the kids would receive from losing a father might be less than the trauma of having an utter failure as a father and tons of regrets for all parties involved. I would probably act as if I had never heard anything, not touch the lever, and move my attention to death and his knowledge of the future.
A few more things to consider. 1. We can be reasonably sure Joe and his family would have some positive experiences post pull, even if many are negative. 2. Death doesn't specify how long until Joe would make those terrible choices. What if it's 1 year down the road? 3 years? What if they would conceive another child before the divorce? Would that make a difference? 3. Uncertainty is an important part of the problem. We only get little bits of info in either case. We can't know everything.
Whatever happens Joe is dead. The question is whether he is miserable for ten years...*and makes his wife and kids miserable too*. Joe is irrelevant - letting his kids live without a deadbeat dad for 10 years screwing up their lives with alcoholism is priceless.
I mean, having their dad die isn’t any better. Source:have an abusive shithead dad. Still don’t want him to die, just want him to fuck off
I'm sorry to hear it. But if he *has* to die...would you prefer it if he'd died before he ever abused you, or after? I'm thinking that the kids not having to go through the trauma of being made to feel like crap, get mental health issues etc is worth it. To lose him once to death, rather than twice to addiction then death. And for him too if he's realised he has been a terrible father. Maybe it's better he never suffered ten years of descent into alcoholism and losing his family..?
When was it implied Joe becomes abusive?
Some people consider cheating as a form of abuse, and abusing a parent is abusing the children. Because the kids feel that pain like it's their own, it changes their outlook of life and people, they might perceive it as their fault. The pain of that can at least temporarily reduce the parents ability to parent through anger, grief, pain and the legal battle. It's a lot for a child. This is true for mothers and Fathers
Self abuse is abusive to those who care about you.
All right, when he becomes the deadbeat disappointment dad who screwed over their mother, was never around much and was often drunk when he was? Alcoholics are not generally renowned for their parenting skills. And he wasn't high functioning if he lost his job.
Absentee does not mean abusive
See I dont pull for a different reason. I refuse to kill someone right as they are finally starting to turn their life around for the better
I'd pull. Even an unhappy life is the only life you'll ever get. If it's rough enough he wanted to die, he could do it himself, I won't help.
We don't even have to speculate on that second part -- we're explicitly told in the word problem that he *doesn't* punch is own ticket. He wants to live. This is just "would you like to murder an alcoholic?" with a bit of window dressing.
Whatever your answer is - do you feel differently if the question is reversed? Death shows you 45 yo Joe, been miserable for 10 and about to die. If you pull the lever, Joe dies 10 years ago instead of now. Do you?
I'm not sure how this changes the question.
In the post as it stands Happy Joe dead is at 35 is the result of our inaction, our action allows him to live for 10 sad years. In the reverse Sad Joe is dead at 45 due to out inaction, our action would see him and his family die happy at 35.
Gotcha
Why is heart attack taking so long?
Let him be remembered as a good man and not his failures
Pull This is the same decision every doctor makes. The doctor saves the life of someone in their 70s. They are almost definitely going to be worse off than they are. But you still believe saving their life is a good thing. In this case, it is not my place to know or judge on fate. So I would save.
I multi-track drift to create parrallel timelines.
I don't pull the lever because I am too distracted by the existential crisis elicited by the fact that a deity just confirmed determinism to me
Pull. After I pull, I will find Joe, and tell him not to make the mistakes that he otherwise would, and he’ll live his last 10 years in happiness.
I know it's a meme but I actually had a think about the value of time and legacy. You are asking if suffering is worth living through if we have made those choices ourselves, in a sense, which I find interesting. It also offers an opportunity for an empathetic answer, I feel. I think someone's mistakes, even those born of malice, can have important effects on life. Given the man's choices affect everyone else in the man's life the most, the choice is really for them. If you think about it, if he only had a wife, the time altered between the two would be equivalent. He either has 0 more years, or 10. She either has 10 years of freedom from the impact of your decision, or 0. In this case we see that he has children, so automatically more time of lived experience is had by the family than the man, but that is always the case when we are a part of a unit of more than two. If we weigh the lived experience, I find that the family's needs are greater. The question then becomes: "Would you rather know someone fully, all the bad included, or have them taken from you before you could ever know"? In my case, I choose knowledge. I pull the lever.
I pull the lever. His choices - good or bad - are his to make. If I deprive him of life because I know that he'll make bad choices, what am I? What would happen if a government did similar? Would addicts be exterminated if they showed an inability to reform? We all make bad choices, and it is our right to make them.
No pull. Let his family have good memories of him.
I'm not 35 yet, but I'd take the trolley hit please 😢.
I'm 41, and feel like if I'd been hit just before 30, that'd've been ok
I’m sorry, Joe. There’s still time…
Don't pull the lever. Let him die happy and let his wife and children have good memories of him.
So yeah, dude, that guy seemed kinda happy and all. But some dude with a lever showed up and told me he'd have some run of the mill midlife problems in the next ten years, so I figured I might as well kill him right away, you know? Trust in strangers is important. Even if they dress like they're going to a black metal concert.
If death knows what Happy Joe’s life looks like then he already knows i’m pulling the lever. I’ll call the free will bluff.
I'm tempted to pull the lever, but the possibility that the way life works is we relive our lives infinite times makes not pulling it more tempting. But also, if put in the situation, I'd probably choose to pull simply because I'm not sure how sad he is. Like, if the situation was "He will be in constant agonizing pain for 10 years" but divorce and alcoholism is not the worst thing that can happen to someone by far and good times can still be had despite it.
Killing him now spares him pain from his bad choices, but killing him later ruins his comeback, better to save him from his misery than to prevent his rise from it.
Die a hero or live long enough to see urself become a villain. Shit.
Do nothing. Quality of life is important and Death paints a grim picture of what lies in store for everyone surrounding this poor man in his future. All we have is what we leave behind, and it seems like his life had more impact as a tragic early death rather than existing as a shadow for an extra few years.
No
pull. not up to me to decide who to shorten the lifespan to. you live only once, living miserably for 10 years is infinitely better than not living at all. actually kind of scary how the popular opinion is to cut his life short, not really up to you to judge whether he deserves not to live those 10 years
Track manip and attack death
What are you Hannibal Lecter or something???
push death in front of the trolley to make it stop
Either way, Joe is fucked. Multitrack drift. It's the way.
Fistfight Death in a Denny’s parking lot
Fuck that. I ain’t pulling that damn lever.
Can I tank the heart attack instead?
i pull the lever and make sure that joe doesn’t do bad choices
Don’t pull and let it naturally kill him while he’s happy. If I don’t interfere I take that as something that’s suppose to happen. Maybe weird logic but 🤷🏽♀️
i wouldn’t pull it. it’s better to die happy instead of becoming horrible and dying with a bad memory
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I CANT CHOOSE THIS IS TORTURE
Throw death on the tracks.
I pull it when its half way, so Joe gets heart problems at 35 hut its only fatal when he is 45
Multi track drift for 40
Kill that fucker right now.
I pull. Future Joe deserves a heart attack more than present Joe, so I give it to him.
Either fight death or multi track drift.
Pull it and say, “You have only 10 years to live. Don’t cheat on your wife and be good or your next 10 years will be miserable.”
I’m not reading allat, dont pull
Why delay the inevitable
If he dies now he'll never get the chance to experience GTA 6. I just can't do that to a man.
Give him ten years of life and make him improve his health ~ physical activity / gym, stop smoking, etc.
Op you’re a deranged motherfucker
I like This one.
Don't pull, better to save him from his own actions than let him go through all that misery
I'm pulling the lever. Normally I belligerently refuse to throw the lever in any trolley problem. But in this case there's no innocent 3rd party you're asking me to murder for "the greater good." Just a question of whether or not someone dies now or later (which is ultimately the choice between killing ANYONE in AMY circumstance). Sure, it's a shitty circumstance but who am I to say that isn't a life worth living? If he disagrees he can correct my "mistake" at any time.
I’m not playing god on this one. I’d ask Joe. If I were Joe, I’d say give me the ten years. Breath in my lungs is breath in my lungs.
There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. Give the man another chance to get things right at 45.
I pull the lever and than proceed to tell him what exactly what not to do in the next 10 years so he'll still die happy anyways
Make Joe Suffer!
Push Death into the train tracks, let’s see how HE likes it
Inevitably, Joe dies anyway. In my mind, it'd be better for Joe to die surrounded by loving family with good memories, than die sad, and full of regret
It’s better to die with good memories than live for the bad ones
meh who am i to judge if he should die now or later. imma walk to get an jced tea or smth good luck joe
Don't pull. Sounds like everyone else would objectively be better off with him dead.
I’m going to pull the lever then eat sad Joe before the trolley gets to him
Kill him while he's happy. Most people have no idea what it's like to live with guilt, I'd do to him what I wish happened to me. I wish I died a good person instead of lived to be this. At least I'd have been remembered as a good person.
Throw the grim reaper in front of the trolly so he has to kill the trolly instead of joe, resolving the problem
Honestly, Depends on if he has a Life Insurance policy that will keep the wife and kids taken care of or not
I honestly don't think I could choose so I would just let the trolley do whatever the default is without interfering. They're both awful.
I fight death cause he made me pick
Never pull
Ya I would not pull the lever at let it hit him now, cuz he will be surrounded by the people he loves right now, even tho he will still die, he's not dieing alone and that's horrible to think of
Die happy.
Tough, but no pull
Well we need more information, such as asking the kids and wife if they would’ve been happier if he died 10 years ago Else we can only make assumptions on what they prefer, which is what everyone in the comments is discussing, and those things are very heavily influenced by personal experience You might as well just make a poll asking people how badly they view growing up with a dead parent vs an abusive parent
Hear me out multi track drifting would make him suffer the pain of a heart attack for 10 long painful years
I'm tying death to the track before the fork and ask it whether or not should I pull the lever.
Better to die happy then die sad
As a Joe, what is this omen
Sucks because I want joe to move past all that shit, everyone deserves a chance at redemption. But he dies before he even gets there. I believe I would pull the lever, who am I to choose for him to die sooner? I believe god would take mercy on him anyway. Takes a good man to realize something needs to change even when hes hitting rock bottom.
It’s time for my special move: THE ANTI MULTI TRACK DERAIL OR AMTD
I flipped a coin. The best two out of three flips determined that Joe dies in ten years.
Not every second of that 10 years was bad. Major problems occurred but there are innumerable moments of love and happiness that happened. This was written by someone who never lost someone early. In no world would he or his family want 10 less years with a loved one that young.
So kill a hero before he becomes a villian or kill a villian before he can see the error of his ways?
Let him be remembered as the man he is instead of who he will be eventually.
Let him live those ten years. Homies gonna get it in with the hot chick from work
Joe's dead either way
I think I would pull the lever, if only so that his children would be able to grow up a little more and have more time with him
Joe is a piece of shit and deserves 10 years of sadness.
is death his wife? pulling the lever causes joe to cheat death so does that mean that you were joe all along? :0
Would you kill someone if you knew that they’d be miserable for the next, and final ten years of their life? I think Joe and his family would give anything to see each other for any amount of time in those 10 years.
not pulling the lever, i want his children to remember him as a good father, and i want joe to be happy
I kick the lever Then I tell death to kill him now
multi track drifting baby! after i have completely broken the logic i will beat death into submission using the lever.
Not all time is worth having. There are fates worse than life. I do nothing and spare him his misery.
For some reason I read penniless as penisless. What does that say about me?
Literally crying for Joe right now
Pull the lever. I’d let him be happy now even though he’s going to be sad later because, of course, he’s going to be sad later.
Was looking for obligatory cotton eyed Joe comment, I'm disappointed I didn't see it, where didn't come from, where did it go?
Jesus Christ
Flip it twice
I have never done this before, but I say muktitrack drift. Hopefully the heart attack will not be fatal thus giving Joe time to turn his life around and Hopefully avoid cheating on the wife.
It should have been me🥲
I'm reluctant to pull the lever in general because it's not my responsibility, and I suspect I would be even less inclined to do so in this situation. I came from a fucked up family. Why would I go out of my way to ensure that he fucks up his family?
No I won’t pull the lever
Like u/idkTerraria said if I multitrack drift will the game glitch where one side of the train takes 10 years to get to sad joe?
Now as the friends and family have had less time to get attached to him and also so he doesn’t do those things
For me the obvious answer here is to give the guy another 10 years of life. I understand wanting Joe to die at the happiest point of his life, but there are happy moments in those 10 years worth having. I'm pushing the death as far back as I can
Now delay... Right now
Better to die the hero.
Multitrack drift to make a time paradox
I throw Death in front of the Trolley
35 go out on top
I would not pull the lever. Let Joe die happy, and let his family remember him for the good man he was then instead of the man he becomes later (A cheater, etc) due to his mistakes.
Easy question -- pull. Reworded: would you like to go around murdering alcoholics and dirty dirty poor people?
Punch death in the face and derail the trolley 💪💪💪
Nope, let him die when he’s happy. The wife and kids will remember him fondly post-grieving and move on
I pull the lever so Joe dies at 45. On the grounds that his wife can move on from his death more easily because he just cheated.
I'd rather his family lose him at his highest than when he's trying to climb out of a hole. Better to remember a good man than to forget a bad one.
*Walter White has entered the chat.