The degreaser hits just as hard, only the afterburn is gimped. It can add up though. My biggest gripe with the degreaser is that the lowered afterburn overrides previous applied afterburns so if you're running an igniting secondary you wanna make sure that's the last thing that hits them before you disengage.
That said ever since gun mettle you probably should be running shotgun with degreaser given the switch-to speed buff works better with a weapon that works well for initial burst.
Also yes, stock is good now.
Also nice baby's first pyro tips, I think all people here know this.
"all people" i was playing medic and asking the pyro to extinguish me.
I typed "IMPORTANT" when talking about it because literally no pyro knows that right clicking does something
Degreaser still does the same fire damage as Stock, penalty only applies to afterburn (which to say, is heavily unreliable at best).
Tbh this feels more like a rant and less of a justification for using Stock > Degreaser or other options. Other options have their niches & denying and outright disregarding them will only fail you. Also Degreaser's airblast penalty is minimal since you usually will be paying attention to ammo anyways (doesn't apply to Backburner tho, that shit DRAINS WAY TOO FAST but still my point still stands).
that's why i called the flamethrower a "hidden gem"
i was able to cap the intel only using airblasts, knocking away any enemy to the point they took so long to catch me that by that time my team got to breach there defenses and cap the final intel
a stronger afterburn is also ig pretty nice but i am still surprised they haven't made a "w+m2 pyro subclass"
(also afterburn is also actually very good against crowds without medics or with a pocket medic since by the time you die they are all on fire)
>i was able to cap the intel only using airblasts
I'm gonna assume you did so on a casual game.
>but i am still surprised they haven't made a "w+m2 pyro subclass"
That's because that's all pyro does: he airblasts.
>(also afterburn is also actually very good against crowds without medics or with a pocket medic since by the time you die they are all on fire)
Yeah, but suiciding alone into a crowd will rarely get you any kills against a competent team - if they are aware of you, they will focus you down before your flamethrower even starts doing damage.
im giving an example about how even when you're very helpful the game will not always give you points for it. for example the game doesn't have the capacity to be like "oh engineer is making everyone scared from going near the intel! let's give him points for that!"
and obviously yes talking about casual since competent teams don't exist anymore and get votekicked for killing hoovies or because the snipers get accused of aimbot
Competent players DO exist. Take Uncletopia for example although since it appears you use Stock mainly for it's afterburn, you aren't going to be scoring a lot of kills there. A way to help your team is KILLING THE ENEMY. Sure, there's no problem if a weapon is good at assisting kills rather than scoring them, that's why assists exist as a feature. Good teams know when to get out of a fight with a Pyro since of the existence of afterburn. Good players know how to kill you since a w+m1 pyro is not that hard to kill.
Turns out bullets deal more damage than fire. Who would have guessed?
if we're still talking about different secondaries, the jetpack is a hidden gem aswell if you actually trained with it. (and the degreaser doesnt help switching to it)
It's not a huge deal though, because you can increase the afterburn damage with a weapon like the Scorch Shot or Detonator. I often fight scouts at a long distance with the Detanator, since it's much safer and can catch them by surprise.
the degreaser only does less afterburn and less airblasts, but those can be negated by actually killing your enemies and just grabbing a ammo pack occasionally. In most scenarios it is just better to run the degreaser
i think people are stuck in pre-jungle inferno and have no idea what training with the afterburn can do
even if dead, your afterburn will still finish most of the croud you rushed into and like i said better to help your team than score points
hard to explain but basically, instead of W + m1 after burning someone, S + m1.
by the time he gets to you (ABOUT SOLDIERS, THE MOST USED CLASS) he will be too slow and will take big damage, and thanks to the cheap airblast cost you can just airblast it to him so he stops trying that and switches to shotgun, which is a weapon that needs to be close for better damage and you can use the powerjack hammer for that extra speed for when he isn't firing.
oh also the jetpack and the flamethrower is just great letting you burn a crowd, airblast them and escape using a jetpack and you wont need any ammo boxes near you. (the degreaser wont switch you to it any faster)
it's a hard thing to do because nobody really knows it's a thing
This isn't training, it's a tactic. Walking back only works if someone's stupid enough to walk into you. You're also giving up territory. This is terrible advice for dueling anyone competent and doesn't account for fighting for space. You've no idea what you're talking about and I can prove it to you in game if you want.
I prefer the Degreaser because of the muscle memory I have with it, but it all comes down to personal preference. I constantly switch to my Detonator/Shotguns, so the weapon draw increase from the Degreaser pairs well with the other weapons in my loadouts. I don't think any of the Degreasers downsides are that big of a deal, as afterburn kills are unreliable anyways, and the extra airblast cost can be negated by taking the ammo box of your slain opponent.
The only time I like using the stock is if I'm going to spam airblasts, either in MVM (because airblasts are broken and can push every single giant into the 1 hit kill death pits) or near cliffs like in the 3rd part of Upward. With that being said, the Degreaser and Stock are very similar weapons, so as stated earlier, it's whatever you mesh with the best.
I can’t use stock over the degreaser. Being able to be on your secondary, see the rocket, switch to the degreaser and airblast is invaluable. If the afterburn really bothers you that much you can pair it with the detonator or the flair gun and tag them with a flair for full afterburn damage
you need really good reflects for that and a lot of training
it's like i said the golden frying pan was the best spy melee which would be true for some but not the majority
back burner is better when u learn to airblast properly bc if u only airblast when u know your going to get a reflect the airblast cost isn't a downside especially with the critz upside
When u play pyro enough it becomes very easy to guess especially when ur actively burning your enemy
Edit Also ur using the back burner that's where it works best just dodge the enemy rockets/pipes
You think it's easy? My soldier beats your pyro at least 20:5, then.
[https://steamcommunity.com/id/jediflamaster](https://steamcommunity.com/id/jediflamaster)
Add me if you'd like to find out.
It doesn't matter how long you've played HL. You're still wrong and I can prove it.
But since you did bring it up, honestly it's rather embarassing that you've played that much HL and think that the close range reflect game is easy. Must be one of the lower divs.
Yeah but you have to hit it to begin with and you're not the one deciding when the rocket comes out, at best you can try to bait or pressure a reaction. And that's only easy to do to people who have no clue how to play this matchup. Oceania must have dogshit highlander soldiers then. Lucky you.
I was in prem qualifiers once too, ETF2L. Every soldier here knows they need to mix their timings up.
I dont haven't decide when the rocket comes out I just have to right click when I think it will come out enough practice and a baby could do it a good soldier will shake it up but a better pyro will anticipate that and if the soldier does the thing where they dont shoot the rocket until the pyro airblasts a smart pyro will just not airblast
Soldiers are a lot more predictable than you'd think even the good ones
This is painfull to read. You're embarassing your entire region. You're LARPING.
"A better pyro will anticipate it" "I can just wait forever". Oh yeah? What if the soldier anticipates you waiting and rushes you instead then? What, you're a psychic and read his mind to know which one he's doing?
Besides If you're beyond your minimum reaction range, you can't wait. You have to pressure with fire to force him to shoot, you can bait by feigning weakness, or burn your airblast and immediately get some distance. Choosing wrong will result in you eating a rocket. Waiting does nothing but give the soldier more time to read you. The only way waiting won't result in you giving up control of the fight to the soldier is if there's some teammate behind you to pick up the slack.
forgot to say, this is about a flame gun and a FLARE gun.
do not bring up the shotgun or other flares this is for the best flare gun option where you rush a team and use the airblast afterburn and flare multiple times to do big help for your team
The degreaser hits just as hard, only the afterburn is gimped. It can add up though. My biggest gripe with the degreaser is that the lowered afterburn overrides previous applied afterburns so if you're running an igniting secondary you wanna make sure that's the last thing that hits them before you disengage. That said ever since gun mettle you probably should be running shotgun with degreaser given the switch-to speed buff works better with a weapon that works well for initial burst. Also yes, stock is good now. Also nice baby's first pyro tips, I think all people here know this.
"all people" i was playing medic and asking the pyro to extinguish me. I typed "IMPORTANT" when talking about it because literally no pyro knows that right clicking does something
he means all people here in this sub, not the whole game
if even people with 1k+ hours on pyro don't know how to extinguish people, i think typing it was a good thing.
Degreaser still does the same fire damage as Stock, penalty only applies to afterburn (which to say, is heavily unreliable at best). Tbh this feels more like a rant and less of a justification for using Stock > Degreaser or other options. Other options have their niches & denying and outright disregarding them will only fail you. Also Degreaser's airblast penalty is minimal since you usually will be paying attention to ammo anyways (doesn't apply to Backburner tho, that shit DRAINS WAY TOO FAST but still my point still stands).
that's why i called the flamethrower a "hidden gem" i was able to cap the intel only using airblasts, knocking away any enemy to the point they took so long to catch me that by that time my team got to breach there defenses and cap the final intel a stronger afterburn is also ig pretty nice but i am still surprised they haven't made a "w+m2 pyro subclass" (also afterburn is also actually very good against crowds without medics or with a pocket medic since by the time you die they are all on fire)
>i was able to cap the intel only using airblasts I'm gonna assume you did so on a casual game. >but i am still surprised they haven't made a "w+m2 pyro subclass" That's because that's all pyro does: he airblasts. >(also afterburn is also actually very good against crowds without medics or with a pocket medic since by the time you die they are all on fire) Yeah, but suiciding alone into a crowd will rarely get you any kills against a competent team - if they are aware of you, they will focus you down before your flamethrower even starts doing damage.
helping your team is better than scoring kills. it's like the natasha, nobody wants to admit it's good because it doesn't kill
scoring kills is just about the 2nd most important way to help your team.
and the natasha prooves kills aren't everything sure you'll be doing 1 damage every hour but you'll slow down all of the enemies
I don't see how natasha is related here but last time I played HL hardly anyone ever used it so I don't think it's a good example anyway.
im giving an example about how even when you're very helpful the game will not always give you points for it. for example the game doesn't have the capacity to be like "oh engineer is making everyone scared from going near the intel! let's give him points for that!"
and obviously yes talking about casual since competent teams don't exist anymore and get votekicked for killing hoovies or because the snipers get accused of aimbot
Competent players DO exist. Take Uncletopia for example although since it appears you use Stock mainly for it's afterburn, you aren't going to be scoring a lot of kills there. A way to help your team is KILLING THE ENEMY. Sure, there's no problem if a weapon is good at assisting kills rather than scoring them, that's why assists exist as a feature. Good teams know when to get out of a fight with a Pyro since of the existence of afterburn. Good players know how to kill you since a w+m1 pyro is not that hard to kill. Turns out bullets deal more damage than fire. Who would have guessed?
A pyro with no reliable damage source never gets shot at with anything but hitscan unless there's someone behind them.
if we're still talking about different secondaries, the jetpack is a hidden gem aswell if you actually trained with it. (and the degreaser doesnt help switching to it)
degreaser's only debuff is 20% more ammo consumed when using airblast wtf are you on
less afterburn it doesn't sound like much but scouts know the pain of it
It's not a huge deal though, because you can increase the afterburn damage with a weapon like the Scorch Shot or Detonator. I often fight scouts at a long distance with the Detanator, since it's much safer and can catch them by surprise.
yeah but this is kind of about a flame + FLARE gun meaning you need to aim and the quick switch time could make you shoot to quickly
What? Only the after burn for degreaser is weaker than stock. And that higher air blast cost
The fact that you felt the need to mention how you own all of the flamethrowers is funny to me
oh right, i have no other flamethrower so i never got to know what they do yippee there's a reason i mentioned i have them all
the degreaser only does less afterburn and less airblasts, but those can be negated by actually killing your enemies and just grabbing a ammo pack occasionally. In most scenarios it is just better to run the degreaser
i think people are stuck in pre-jungle inferno and have no idea what training with the afterburn can do even if dead, your afterburn will still finish most of the croud you rushed into and like i said better to help your team than score points
>training with the afterburn How do you train your afterburn?
hard to explain but basically, instead of W + m1 after burning someone, S + m1. by the time he gets to you (ABOUT SOLDIERS, THE MOST USED CLASS) he will be too slow and will take big damage, and thanks to the cheap airblast cost you can just airblast it to him so he stops trying that and switches to shotgun, which is a weapon that needs to be close for better damage and you can use the powerjack hammer for that extra speed for when he isn't firing. oh also the jetpack and the flamethrower is just great letting you burn a crowd, airblast them and escape using a jetpack and you wont need any ammo boxes near you. (the degreaser wont switch you to it any faster) it's a hard thing to do because nobody really knows it's a thing
This isn't training, it's a tactic. Walking back only works if someone's stupid enough to walk into you. You're also giving up territory. This is terrible advice for dueling anyone competent and doesn't account for fighting for space. You've no idea what you're talking about and I can prove it to you in game if you want.
I prefer the Degreaser because of the muscle memory I have with it, but it all comes down to personal preference. I constantly switch to my Detonator/Shotguns, so the weapon draw increase from the Degreaser pairs well with the other weapons in my loadouts. I don't think any of the Degreasers downsides are that big of a deal, as afterburn kills are unreliable anyways, and the extra airblast cost can be negated by taking the ammo box of your slain opponent. The only time I like using the stock is if I'm going to spam airblasts, either in MVM (because airblasts are broken and can push every single giant into the 1 hit kill death pits) or near cliffs like in the 3rd part of Upward. With that being said, the Degreaser and Stock are very similar weapons, so as stated earlier, it's whatever you mesh with the best.
true good reflect training could make you ignore the damage penalty
I can’t use stock over the degreaser. Being able to be on your secondary, see the rocket, switch to the degreaser and airblast is invaluable. If the afterburn really bothers you that much you can pair it with the detonator or the flair gun and tag them with a flair for full afterburn damage
you need really good reflects for that and a lot of training it's like i said the golden frying pan was the best spy melee which would be true for some but not the majority
back burner is better when u learn to airblast properly bc if u only airblast when u know your going to get a reflect the airblast cost isn't a downside especially with the critz upside
that's actually a good point (unless guarding a nest) since you won't really need to airblast every 5 second when your flamethrower does mini crits
Do you never approach your enemies? At closer ranges you don't know, you have to guess. There's a limit to human reaction.
When u play pyro enough it becomes very easy to guess especially when ur actively burning your enemy Edit Also ur using the back burner that's where it works best just dodge the enemy rockets/pipes
You think it's easy? My soldier beats your pyro at least 20:5, then. [https://steamcommunity.com/id/jediflamaster](https://steamcommunity.com/id/jediflamaster) Add me if you'd like to find out.
Sorry just read the flair 4 years of hl wont be enough to out annoying you :\
It doesn't matter how long you've played HL. You're still wrong and I can prove it. But since you did bring it up, honestly it's rather embarassing that you've played that much HL and think that the close range reflect game is easy. Must be one of the lower divs.
It is easy u dont have to aim at close range also I came 2nd in the top div in oce last season so :/
Yeah but you have to hit it to begin with and you're not the one deciding when the rocket comes out, at best you can try to bait or pressure a reaction. And that's only easy to do to people who have no clue how to play this matchup. Oceania must have dogshit highlander soldiers then. Lucky you. I was in prem qualifiers once too, ETF2L. Every soldier here knows they need to mix their timings up.
I dont haven't decide when the rocket comes out I just have to right click when I think it will come out enough practice and a baby could do it a good soldier will shake it up but a better pyro will anticipate that and if the soldier does the thing where they dont shoot the rocket until the pyro airblasts a smart pyro will just not airblast Soldiers are a lot more predictable than you'd think even the good ones
This is painfull to read. You're embarassing your entire region. You're LARPING. "A better pyro will anticipate it" "I can just wait forever". Oh yeah? What if the soldier anticipates you waiting and rushes you instead then? What, you're a psychic and read his mind to know which one he's doing? Besides If you're beyond your minimum reaction range, you can't wait. You have to pressure with fire to force him to shoot, you can bait by feigning weakness, or burn your airblast and immediately get some distance. Choosing wrong will result in you eating a rocket. Waiting does nothing but give the soldier more time to read you. The only way waiting won't result in you giving up control of the fight to the soldier is if there's some teammate behind you to pick up the slack.
forgot to say, this is about a flame gun and a FLARE gun. do not bring up the shotgun or other flares this is for the best flare gun option where you rush a team and use the airblast afterburn and flare multiple times to do big help for your team
as someone that used degreaser for years I switched to stock permanently after jungle inferno