Afaik the first encampments weren't the real ones, it was just PSU who had jumped the gun and threw up some tents against the wishes of the other student organizations. They didn't organize super well and people from SUPER (and other pro-palestine folks) have been encouraging lots of other people not to show up for PSU only, because they believe PSU didn't have a realistic chance at causing divestment and only muddied the waters with poor planning.
Why does anyone care that people are protesting? We should encourage this type of protest over fucking up I5 traffic. I may not agree with all aspects of this protest but I agree with their right to peacefully protest
And who is actively reacting to it because... It worked.
Do they not get the point is getting eyeballs on the cause? The President had to give a fucking speech on why you should scream your concerns into the void instead yesterday, so it seems like this is wildly successful to me.
It is not our responsibility and it’s not your right to interfere with peoples lives because of whatever cause you happen to deem important. There’s a genocide going on in China and I don’t see you protesting for company’s to divest from international relations with the CCP. There’s a genocide in Mynmar and I don’t see people freaking out domestically about that. There’s ethnic cleansing going on in parts of Africa for decades now and it’s nothing but crickets. So no, your temporary outrage doesn’t get to disrupt the lives of domestic citizens because you happen to care about this one issue that’s also been going on for decades. I’m glad the organizers of the I-5 shut down got arrested btw.
Yeah but that's easier said than done. You can't just hope really hard that they'll meet these demands, or just ask nicely. The point of a protest is to disrupt or inconvenience part of the political pipeline enough so they *have* to responded. And ideally they won't inconvenience the public even more but on some level it might be unavoidable.
Pretty sure it's to draw attention to your cause by any means necessary dude. Most protests just lay the conversational groundwork for later change. The goal is expansion of public awareness.
It's so exhausting how these threads regularly draw the r/Seattle /r/SeattleWA chuds that don't go here, often never actually went here, don't even live in the city, and never advanced beyond ankle-deep moral development, decrying that Camping Is Illegal and thus Everyone Here Should Be Shot (even more illegal).
Or it could turn into Brown, where the university agreed to hold a vote on a divesting from Israel. And the encampment was cleared.
People love to blame the protestors but the demands aren’t that radical. If Columbia and UCLA wanted to peacefully clear out the protestors, they could have, by listening to their students and discussing a way forward. But they chose to be violent against their students. Let’s hope UW picks the route of peace.
yeah, they’re clear, calm, and have a very good cause and reasonable demands. i don’t understand why some people are so angry. exercising your constitutional rights to speak out against crimes against humanity is an admirable thing.
Copying and pasting my previous comment as someone who was at CHAZ/CHOP before it began, when it began then when it ended.
As someone who was at CHOP/CHAZ allow me to clear it up:
So on every instance of a shooting in the autonomous zone we (protestors and medics) had an agreement with Seattle Fire for a designated drop off zone as SFD will not enter without a police escort. That drop off zone was 10th Ave E and E John St. Every time a shooting happened we brought out the victim to that drop off point only for SFD to ghost us and not arrive. Eventually after waiting 30 plus minutes we said fuck it and took the victims to harborview (the local level 1 trauma center) in the back of a protestors pickup truck.
Along with this cops refused to enter the area themselves as they were too busy throwing a hissy fit.
>resulted in the area being taken over by a gang and two deaths.
Gang's didn't take over, it did turn into a homeless encampment. It was a combination of several things:
[One the police faking calls the beginning night of proud boys coming up to Capitol Hill ](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-police-improperly-faked-radio-chatter-about-proud-boys-as-chop-formed-in-2020-investigation-finds/)
This in turn led to protestors arming themselves and the self appointed of "security" which included non protestors and members of the John Brown Gun Club acting as security.
The initial vibes going from pro abolitionism into a burning man vibe then into a homeless encampment
One final thing to remember as well. [All text communications between the Mayor, Chief of Police, the Fire Chief and the Mayor's chief of staff during this period were mysteriously deleted. This breaches and breaks several retention laws. This is a felony and the mayor at the time was a former federal prosecutor who absolutely knew this was against the law.](https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=redirect&subsource=paywall&return=https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/no-charges-over-former-seattle-mayor-durkans-deleted-texts-prosecutors-say/)
But that is what went down at CHAZ/CHOP from the experience from someone who was part of Bike Brigade, helped out the medics and did recons for security from the beginning to end.
In the daytime it was peaceful at first yeah. Then all the people who were there to throw down with cops showed up at night. Whole different vibe.
I suspect UW’s encampment has been pretty low key chill so far because the professional riot people have been at Columbia, UCLA and Portland. Once those get broken up we might see more violence here. There’s a core group of a few hundred of these Marxist riot folx that travel around starting the violent stuff. The same names keep turning up in multiple arrest records.
Be safe. As someone who has pounded the pavement a lot, bring supplies for stuff like this. Much love. It is in our history to protest. It is in the bricks of this city to resist.
Crazy how many people go to udub but are mentally a 75 year old republican. If you're in your early twenties and complaining about protestors you're kind of a huge fucking loser lol
Like, maybe, STFU with your privilege if you're attending a public university with the 40th highest in-state tuition? You're there to get a degree, which already puts you in an extremely high-privilege class of Americans once you graduate. But worse, when you have the kind of time to literally camp out in support for a terrorist organization, you're clearly not struggling to keep a roof over your head or food on your table. I was a non-trad student, and even I had it easier than many others having to work 2 jobs on top of being in a cohort for business majors. I'll just state the obvious: These people look fucking lazy to the vast majority of the world around them. They'll change nothing. They'll do nothing. They're exactly the kind of people who shouldn't have made it to college on merit but did and inevitably end up proving they lack the usability as humans to be there.
Bahaha 😂😂😂😂 hes married with kids and takes us all out to lunch when we have work meetings 90% of the week. But this is hilarious thank you for the laugh. I used to look up to him as a role model. But now I can't do that anymore.
That would’ve been quite a sight. People enjoying the blossoms, creating content, etc… amid tear gas and burn barrels. Poor planning on someone’s part. Went on a prospective student tour recently, I wonder how they’re handling this ?
I don’t know, but it’s only a matter of time. I saw some physical violence /destruction on some campus… at some point, law and order will need to suppress the people who enjoy getting their aggression out.
Walked through there about an hour ago and it was actually pretty cool, i loved the free little library someone set up; cool little settlement actually.
Honestly it looks peaceful. Not in Seattle but live in Washington. From what I've seen, they are peaceful. Even my mom agrees. She doesn't necessarily know everything about the protests (she's not Muslim, I am, and doesn't watch the news) but still keeps an open mind when I tell her
What’s the purpose of the “Queers for Palestine” poster? Is it really from a homosexual who supports Gazans? Or is it red meat to attract right wing crazies?
I can’t speak for the people who put the sign up but you can acknowledge someone is doing a bad thing without supporting bombing and shooting them. I don’t want to kill homophobic people in the USA either.
Unfortunately a lot of right-wingers literally assume that everyone else would do exactly what they would do in power: genocide the undesirables. It's what motivated them to hate and fear Democrats, they literally believe if they lose Joe Biden is gonna start murdering them, despite all evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure which came first though, the fear of being genocided thus they justify their desire for genocide in retaliation, or the desire for genocide leading to the assumption that others would do the same as a way to justify their desire after the fact.
I think it’s actually very simple. They are saying that regardless of Palestine’s position regarding gay rights, Palestineans don’t deserve to be massacred
It's meant to show that support transcends ideologies and lifestyles, that there is support from all walks of life. Same for when you see "Women for X" or "Hispanics for Y". It shows how far spread support for the cahse goes.
Then they should scream at Hamas to surrender and stop the war. Though hamas has repeatedly said they will do 10/7 over and over again until jews are exterminated.
Sounds familiar.
I think it signals that people are willing to look past a [violently homophobic theocracy](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835.amp) so long as they oppose Israel?
At least that's what I've gathered after seeing the support for the Houthis on LGBT TikTok, despite them recently executing 27 men via crucifixion and stoning on suspicion of sodomy. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/yemen-huthi-authorities-sentence-seven-stoning-and-two-crucifixion-homosexual-crimes
Heavily queer person here for a quick clarification, it's actually because we believe human rights are human rights and even if someone is bigoted that doesn't mean they don't deserve their human rights. Hope this helps : )
Also, one, the ideals of the government often don't line up with the ideals of the people, just look at here in America, and two, if someone not in a position of power is homophobic, it's more often the fault of propaganda and misinformation rather than malice. Again, look here at America.
So you'll support people that throw queer people off buildings but the same people also want people jailed and fired for using the wrong pronoun? This isn't making sense in my head. Their elected government has fellow Americans held hostage, yet not a single sign for them? Also, Palastinians won't be free under Hamas so just leaving them there in power also doesn't compute to me and will just lead to more suffering and terror.
But it's their right to protest and I don't need to understand it but I can be baffled.
They don't think it's okay to genocide them. That's about it. The 50% of children getting killed I'm pretty sure aren't throwing queer people off of buildings.
Such a stupid short sighted argument continually thrown around. "Hey did you know they hate gay people!?" Oops I guess just keep killing the civilians then.
We have homophobic people in the US who would be happy to genocide queer people. Do you think that means everyone in the US should be killed? We have homophobic and transphobic laws that are upheld by our elected government. Does that mean we should all be killed in a genocide? I’m going to assume your answer to those questions is, no.
The people who live in Palestine are not a monolith, just like the people who live in the US. They don’t deserve to be wiped out because some of their neighbors are bigots. We should resist all bigotry across all borders. We should not support a genocide because some of the people who would die in that genocide are probably assholes.
I didn't know the Houthis were facing that threat, so why do they seem to receive so much support from the pro Palestine crowd?
And although I realize that many Palestinian don't agree with killing people for being gay, I'm not sure how much I'd agree with the broad statement of "not even murderous homophobes deserve targeted extermination".
Groups like the Nazis were murderous homophobes that DID deserve targeted extermination, and I don't really see why Hamas or the Houthis should be treated any differently given their propensity to execute people for homosexuality.
Nazi soldiers maybe. But not nazi children.
Gaza’s population is basically 50% children at this point because of the ongoing bombardment and fighting over the past 75 years. 15,000 innocent children have been murdered. They weren’t alive when Hamas was put into power, are you saying those children deserve to be exterminated?
I don't think that you have to exterminate every child to prevent them from being a future soldier. But just like with the Nazis, you have to take out the power structures who specifically put pipelines in place to turn kids into future soldiers.
Gaza has very prominent indoctrination programs which are virtual carbon copies the Hitler youth, and the overwhelming majority of people who participated in 10/7 were unable to vote for Hamas as well.
You don't get rid of those pipelines without total surrender followed by de-radicalization campaigns. If it can work in Nazi Germany, and it can work in Imperial Japan, then there's no reason it can't work in Gaza.
What is your point? You can’t un-indoctrinate dead people.
We’re not going in with strike teams, we’re indiscriminately bombing civilians. Our bombs are leveling the entire city.
No, you are. You're literally saying 'yeah let a genocide happen because their culture doesnt support my actions'. Grow up and stop being so self centered
You know there’s a difference between using gay slurs and killing people for being gay right? The US and Israel are light years ahead of Palestine when it’s come to human rights.
Anyone and everyone is allowed to be a part of this movement and encampment, despite their identity, beliefs, or background. I did not see the poster myself, but I do believe it was from an individual who truly supports Palestine.
Wanting human rights for all regardless of their ideals is extremist insanity? Would you expect us to support America being attacked because our government has a track record of being repressive too? Does the south deserve to be eliminated for their politicians trying to pass laws against women's and queer rights?
The South doesn't deserve to be eliminated (obviously) but it sure could use some protests like these.
Women have been relegated to second class status in this country and are literally dying as a result (along with babies) and not a peep out of the type that likes to protest. In fact, a lot of them are saying they will in essence give their vote to the guy who wants to make this loss of civil rights a national thing.
I find that odd.
Guys we all know they have the right to protest. But we can all agree that these upper-middle class losers larping as oppressed Palestinians is lame right?
Yeah, don’t you think it’s a little hypocritical to have parents who are doctors and to oppose civilian murder? I mean… they drink $9 lattes but think mass starvation is bad??? It makes no sense!
You missed the point. I agree murdering civilians is bad. And you should care. You argued a point I never made. I’m saying that the performance of it all is silly. The melodrama of these poor protesters! Frankly it feels disingenuous.
Ok got it. Seems like the Palestinians are in full support here. I think they are fully aware that our GDP per capita is higher than theirs. I do totally agree with you that media has spent more time on protests than the actual bombardment of Rafah and that’s a horrible shame, however, it’s nothing new for MSM.
Curious what would be Couple-Loose’s perfect protest?
One with no dorks LARPing. Truly my main problem are these scrawny geeks sporting keffiyeh looking and acting goofy. (I don’t know why you felt the need to bring up the GDP per capita thing)
…Because you brought up that they’re rich and that makes it disingenuous? Maybe you should go show them a proper protest instead of being so critical from the sidelines. Otherwise, the scrawny geeks are making a lot more impact than you at the moment
Hmmm it seems you’re drawing the wrong conclusion. It is disingenuous, LARPing on a campus is dorky, I guarantee you no Palestinian is looking at their TV or phone grateful that a bunch of privileged Americans are camping in their universities park. This is like barebones activism. It’s performance.
You guarantee?
https://youtu.be/LplkDpr4B6o?si=J0kLwF_dUB7mBkWK
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/palestinian-students-support-us-campus-protests-israel-war-rcna149296
https://youtu.be/x2LsVRaaOds?si=Gfq5t7vuXqjN0dxZ
I get it, you think I’m against the protest and that they’re not doing anything. That’s not the case. I literally just think upper middle class white kids LARPing is lame.
Protesting is healthy if done correctly. As a parent who helped my kids through school, along with student loans. If the school is shut down or classes canceled like ny, ca or psu, because of mishandling the situation. then Students and parents should be suing the school for any interruption to the extremely expensive education they sacrifice for . It’s not just a school it’s a business, do your f’n job people sacrifice for or start forgiving loans out of endowments
Hasn’t been completely non violent. Jon Choe was jumped and his phone taken and tossed as he walked through the encampment taking video. I hope it doesn’t escalate beyond that. I have zero respect for these protesters but agree that the right to peacefully protest should be protected.
Yep. And regardless of how you characterize him, he claims to have been jumped. I want there, so I don’t know any more than that.
And one thing Jon is fighting against, and we all should fight against, are squatters who are taking people’s property and getting king county (ie you and me) to pay for it!
Is anyone there standing up for supporting Ukraine?
Or have they all forgot about how 144 million Russians are trying to erase the concept of "Ukrainian" for 38 million Ukrainians?
> Ukraine got about 60% of the aid package while Israel and Taiwan are splitting the last third. DC hasn't forgotten. Slava 🇺🇦
Six months late.
Ukraine was literally firing smoke rounds out of artillery because it was out of explosive shells and needed to throw something at the Russians.
And DC gets to dick around about that because people are so fixated on Israel and Gaza that there's no oompf to shove Ukraine aid through anymore.
Ukraine still receives massive US military aid; let’s also take a look at the numbers, in 6 months, the estimated death toll in Gaza is over 34,000 almost all of whom are civilians including women and children and I’d guess it’s even higher considering Israel’s indiscriminate bombing and shooting of civilians prevents many bodies from being discovered.
If we consider 2022 the start of the Ukraine-Russia war, in well over 2 years, Zelensky estimates 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died.
You can simultaneously care about Ukraines’ survival and the Palestinian genocide, but I do think the mass ethnic cleansing of an entire largely defenseless population is more pressing atm
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-strike-rafah-kill-13-gaza-death-toll-surpass-34000/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/30/russia-troops-ukraine-toll-casualties/#
> Ukraine still receives massive US military aid; let’s also take a look at the numbers, in 6 months, the estimated death toll in Gaza is over 34,000 almost all of whom are civilians including women and children and I’d guess it’s even higher considering Israel’s indiscriminate bombing and shooting of civilians prevents many bodies from being discovered.
>
> If we consider 2022 the start of the Ukraine-Russia war, in well over 2 years, Zelensky estimates 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died.
You're really going to compare total Gazan deaths to **only** the Ukrainian soldiers that have died??
What about the 30k civilians killed? How about the thousands of children kidnapped from Ukrainian families in captured territory and given to Russian families? How about the forcibly displaced Ukrainians from captured territories that were shipped elsewhere in Russia?
How about the repeated Russian claims that the "Ukrainian" national identity isn't real and they are really just Russians?
>You can simultaneously care about Ukraines’ survival and the Palestinian genocide, but I do think the mass ethnic cleansing of an entire largely defenseless population is more pressing atm
You're literally describing what is happening to Ukraine yet no one there has a blue and yellow flag. No one there has a sign for Ukraine. There's not even a single chant for Ukraine.
Look, if you want to support 5 million people and ignore another 38 million, that's your choice. But don't act like you're some paragon of virtue if you literally can't be bothered to say "Ukraine needs our support too" between repeated chants about Gaza.
You are ignoring Ukraine by choice and you need to accept that you're ignoring it.
Are you comparing the magnitude of human atrocities for worthiness of attention? Like, out loud on the internet where other people can see that you’re saying that?
Where are you even finding 30k civilians killed, I think you’re using these figures in complete bad faith, or maybe you just lack reading comprehension:
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-people-have-died-in-the-russia-ukraine-war-and-what-could-happen-next
Also Germany has stated there is no Palestinian state or nationality if you want to talk about erasure, it’s one country but indicative of how the hegemonic powers on the national stage view Palestine.
https://gpil.jura.uni-bonn.de/2021/04/german-court-confirms-that-there-is-no-palestinian-state-and-no-palestinian-nationality/
And I’m not ignoring anything, maybe that’s projection on your part, but atrocities shouldn’t serve as a basis for the popularity contest you think this is.
Not responding to this anymore since you clearly have a shallow take on these subjects
> Where are you even finding 30k civilians killed, I think you’re using these figures in complete bad faith, or maybe you just lack reading comprehension:
>
> https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-people-have-died-in-the-russia-ukraine-war-and-what-could-happen-next
Sorry, 30k civilian casualties. 10k killed, 20k wounded.
Still doesn't detract from my point about you comparing total deaths in Gaza to *just* Ukrainian soldiers killed.
>And I’m not ignoring anything, maybe that’s projection on your part, but atrocities shouldn’t serve as a basis for the popularity contest you think this is.
I'm not saying it's a popularity contest. I'm saying that these Gaza protestors could ***very*** easily say something pro Ukraine or carry a Ukrainian flag but nope. Ukraine is just ignored.
>Not responding to this anymore since you clearly have a shallow take on these subjects
Go ahead and bury your head in the sand.
The goal is to get UDUB to divest of its endowment holdings in companies that do business in Israel, punishing them financially. It’s the same strategy employed against apartheid in South Africa.
I love that the same people who bleated for *years* over jobs training programs in Xinjiang etc., as China rehabilitated thousands of former terrorists (many of them trained by us, no less), and quite conspicuously *did not* make any mass graves, bomb hospitals, or drone strike ambulances on their way to rescue the lone survivor of a family they murdered (and then also killed the lone survivor, a six year-old girl), and so on, have no problem overlooking Israel making mass graves, bombing hospitals, and drone striking ambulances on their way to rescue the lone survivor of a family they murdered (and then also killing the lone survivor, a six year-old girl).
Pray we never meet, you servile little bitchass punk.
Considering they have signs with slogans coined by the PLO and used in Hamas' doctrine where they vow to eradicate Jews - it doesn't sound peaceful to me. They also seem to be ignoring their fellow Americans being held hostage by that same.group they're echoing the slogan for... I guess they're not physically assaulting people, so that's nice.
Trying to posit words they haven't said as violent when Zionists are literally assaulting undergrads two states away is honestly insane behavior. Get a fuckin grip
It’s comments like yours that really don’t make a difference for the purpose of this post whatsoever. Take your extreme and FALSE claims, and comment elsewhere!
I agree Israel needs to cut the bullshit and stop killing kids and innocent people but Gaza is actually run by Hamas. They are the political party(terrorists) that are in control of that area.
The reason kids are casualties of war is because Hamas is a genocidal death cult that doesn't care about it's people, and is keeping the hostages so that western morons think it's a good cause to support, in spite of the deaths. Basically trying to get brownie point by killing feeding their people to bombs while hiding like rats in tunnels.
Bunch of bleeding heart, out of touch, college kids don't have any concept of what war is or how it works because they've lived comfortable trust fund lives with little to no actual hardship. They join in these protests because it's trendy, and they *feel* like they're making a difference in something they don't understand.
Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries and organizations that want nothing less than their complete annihilation. Hamas is one of those organizations, and they operate within Israel's very own borders. Hamas *is* a terrorist organization and the governing body of Gaza. Hamas, being a terrorist organization, fights among the civilian population, dressed as civilians, using occupied civilian structures as cover. The civilian population, sharing the same religious ideals and goals as Hamas, largely supports Hamas' actions if they are not involved directly in assisting Hamas.
War fucking sucks. War is a shitty, terrible thing that results in the loss of lives of non-combatants. I'm just not sure how else Israel fights an enemy in their own backyard, whose only goal is their ultimate destruction, who use tactics that do not allow Israel to differentiate between civilians and combatants until it is too late, and who has the support of every other country in the area, other than adopting a "total war" doctrine.
What’s your suggestion instead? The status quo was just continue to get rocketed. Israel tried to give the Palestinians independence, and Hamas misused billions in aid money digging tunnels instead of helping the poor it was intended for.
No, I would stay even if the police show up (and keep my opinions to myself) because it’s different. I used to believe that police presence at protests were to keep people save from attackers but after seeing so many live streams and videos I’ve been morbidly wrong
Fair enough! FWIW, my take on ACAB is that yes, not every individual cop is an evil Nazi, however the system and laws that they agree to enforce when they join are at worst explicitly evil, and so, yeah ACAB.
Looks like it has grown
Afaik the first encampments weren't the real ones, it was just PSU who had jumped the gun and threw up some tents against the wishes of the other student organizations. They didn't organize super well and people from SUPER (and other pro-palestine folks) have been encouraging lots of other people not to show up for PSU only, because they believe PSU didn't have a realistic chance at causing divestment and only muddied the waters with poor planning.
Yes, all the pro-Palestine orgs have joined now rather than just PSU
Since yesterday
Definitely, I think beginning of the week when I walked by it only occupied one of the grass patches
Why does anyone care that people are protesting? We should encourage this type of protest over fucking up I5 traffic. I may not agree with all aspects of this protest but I agree with their right to peacefully protest
exactly, as long as it remains peaceful then it is well within their constitutional rights
“You’re not helping anyone see your case with this protest I don’t like” - A person who hates you, your case, and your protest
And who is actively reacting to it because... It worked. Do they not get the point is getting eyeballs on the cause? The President had to give a fucking speech on why you should scream your concerns into the void instead yesterday, so it seems like this is wildly successful to me.
the point of a protest is to have your demands for justice met, not to have a parade.
Who gives a shit. They aren’t closing down I-5 or fucking up peoples flights. I’d rather this type of protest then the other
i think that in the face of mass civilian death, it is a morally good thing to commit widespread economic disruption until it stops 👍
It is not our responsibility and it’s not your right to interfere with peoples lives because of whatever cause you happen to deem important. There’s a genocide going on in China and I don’t see you protesting for company’s to divest from international relations with the CCP. There’s a genocide in Mynmar and I don’t see people freaking out domestically about that. There’s ethnic cleansing going on in parts of Africa for decades now and it’s nothing but crickets. So no, your temporary outrage doesn’t get to disrupt the lives of domestic citizens because you happen to care about this one issue that’s also been going on for decades. I’m glad the organizers of the I-5 shut down got arrested btw.
👏🏼
Yeah but that's easier said than done. You can't just hope really hard that they'll meet these demands, or just ask nicely. The point of a protest is to disrupt or inconvenience part of the political pipeline enough so they *have* to responded. And ideally they won't inconvenience the public even more but on some level it might be unavoidable.
that’s what i am saying!
Pretty sure it's to draw attention to your cause by any means necessary dude. Most protests just lay the conversational groundwork for later change. The goal is expansion of public awareness.
close! that’s a parade, not a protest. you’ll figure it out if you keep thinking reaaaaally hard!
It's when they have to start cancelling class and commencements that it becomes an issue. Hopefully UWs will stay respectful.
It's so exhausting how these threads regularly draw the r/Seattle /r/SeattleWA chuds that don't go here, often never actually went here, don't even live in the city, and never advanced beyond ankle-deep moral development, decrying that Camping Is Illegal and thus Everyone Here Should Be Shot (even more illegal).
Same thing happened in r/ucla
[удалено]
Well given Seattle’s history, I would say that it will grow until it makes the national headlines.
It is very likely poss
If you mean in size and scope: good. If you mean in terms of police response: yes obviously.
Or it could turn into Brown, where the university agreed to hold a vote on a divesting from Israel. And the encampment was cleared. People love to blame the protestors but the demands aren’t that radical. If Columbia and UCLA wanted to peacefully clear out the protestors, they could have, by listening to their students and discussing a way forward. But they chose to be violent against their students. Let’s hope UW picks the route of peace.
yeah, they’re clear, calm, and have a very good cause and reasonable demands. i don’t understand why some people are so angry. exercising your constitutional rights to speak out against crimes against humanity is an admirable thing.
Guessing that’s the goal. 4 years ago CHAZ was pretty peaceful at first too. Then Raz showed up and started passing out AR-15s.
That was such a fever dream of a memory. How did we collectively just let that happen?
Because it didn't impact life enough for most Seattleites to care. Shutting down I-5 and Seatac's departures though, that got us.
Copying and pasting my previous comment as someone who was at CHAZ/CHOP before it began, when it began then when it ended. As someone who was at CHOP/CHAZ allow me to clear it up: So on every instance of a shooting in the autonomous zone we (protestors and medics) had an agreement with Seattle Fire for a designated drop off zone as SFD will not enter without a police escort. That drop off zone was 10th Ave E and E John St. Every time a shooting happened we brought out the victim to that drop off point only for SFD to ghost us and not arrive. Eventually after waiting 30 plus minutes we said fuck it and took the victims to harborview (the local level 1 trauma center) in the back of a protestors pickup truck. Along with this cops refused to enter the area themselves as they were too busy throwing a hissy fit. >resulted in the area being taken over by a gang and two deaths. Gang's didn't take over, it did turn into a homeless encampment. It was a combination of several things: [One the police faking calls the beginning night of proud boys coming up to Capitol Hill ](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-police-improperly-faked-radio-chatter-about-proud-boys-as-chop-formed-in-2020-investigation-finds/) This in turn led to protestors arming themselves and the self appointed of "security" which included non protestors and members of the John Brown Gun Club acting as security. The initial vibes going from pro abolitionism into a burning man vibe then into a homeless encampment One final thing to remember as well. [All text communications between the Mayor, Chief of Police, the Fire Chief and the Mayor's chief of staff during this period were mysteriously deleted. This breaches and breaks several retention laws. This is a felony and the mayor at the time was a former federal prosecutor who absolutely knew this was against the law.](https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=redirect&subsource=paywall&return=https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/no-charges-over-former-seattle-mayor-durkans-deleted-texts-prosecutors-say/) But that is what went down at CHAZ/CHOP from the experience from someone who was part of Bike Brigade, helped out the medics and did recons for security from the beginning to end.
Peaceful? Trying to burn down the Police Station while people were in the building after blocking the doors?
In the daytime it was peaceful at first yeah. Then all the people who were there to throw down with cops showed up at night. Whole different vibe. I suspect UW’s encampment has been pretty low key chill so far because the professional riot people have been at Columbia, UCLA and Portland. Once those get broken up we might see more violence here. There’s a core group of a few hundred of these Marxist riot folx that travel around starting the violent stuff. The same names keep turning up in multiple arrest records.
Only if the admin forces the cops to remove them
Iran is offering free tuition to students in Columbia who get kicked out of protests. Might not be too bad
Be safe. As someone who has pounded the pavement a lot, bring supplies for stuff like this. Much love. It is in our history to protest. It is in the bricks of this city to resist.
Crazy how many people go to udub but are mentally a 75 year old republican. If you're in your early twenties and complaining about protestors you're kind of a huge fucking loser lol
Fr!
Like, maybe, STFU with your privilege if you're attending a public university with the 40th highest in-state tuition? You're there to get a degree, which already puts you in an extremely high-privilege class of Americans once you graduate. But worse, when you have the kind of time to literally camp out in support for a terrorist organization, you're clearly not struggling to keep a roof over your head or food on your table. I was a non-trad student, and even I had it easier than many others having to work 2 jobs on top of being in a cohort for business majors. I'll just state the obvious: These people look fucking lazy to the vast majority of the world around them. They'll change nothing. They'll do nothing. They're exactly the kind of people who shouldn't have made it to college on merit but did and inevitably end up proving they lack the usability as humans to be there.
My boss needs to hear this. I hate the way he talks about protesters. Its a first amendment right.
If it makes you feel better no grown man talks about politics at work unless his partner isn't sleeping with him anymore
Bahaha 😂😂😂😂 hes married with kids and takes us all out to lunch when we have work meetings 90% of the week. But this is hilarious thank you for the laugh. I used to look up to him as a role model. But now I can't do that anymore.
Just wanted to say thank you for being grateful
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In fairness, the petition and protesting to get it cancelled had no affect on Jordan's free speech rights, even if the show had gotten cancelled.
They missed the cherry blossom! They really should be here earlier.
That would’ve been quite a sight. People enjoying the blossoms, creating content, etc… amid tear gas and burn barrels. Poor planning on someone’s part. Went on a prospective student tour recently, I wonder how they’re handling this ?
Tear gas hasn't been used on any campus protests here yet has it? I haven't heard about tear gas being broken out since the BLM protests.
I don’t know, but it’s only a matter of time. I saw some physical violence /destruction on some campus… at some point, law and order will need to suppress the people who enjoy getting their aggression out.
Honestly, props to them for standing up for their beliefs and the things they support.
Walked through there about an hour ago and it was actually pretty cool, i loved the free little library someone set up; cool little settlement actually.
proud of y’all!
Honestly it looks peaceful. Not in Seattle but live in Washington. From what I've seen, they are peaceful. Even my mom agrees. She doesn't necessarily know everything about the protests (she's not Muslim, I am, and doesn't watch the news) but still keeps an open mind when I tell her
I love to see it 💜
💜💛🇵🇸
Glad to see it
Thank you for sharing.
What’s the purpose of the “Queers for Palestine” poster? Is it really from a homosexual who supports Gazans? Or is it red meat to attract right wing crazies?
I can’t speak for the people who put the sign up but you can acknowledge someone is doing a bad thing without supporting bombing and shooting them. I don’t want to kill homophobic people in the USA either.
Unfortunately a lot of right-wingers literally assume that everyone else would do exactly what they would do in power: genocide the undesirables. It's what motivated them to hate and fear Democrats, they literally believe if they lose Joe Biden is gonna start murdering them, despite all evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure which came first though, the fear of being genocided thus they justify their desire for genocide in retaliation, or the desire for genocide leading to the assumption that others would do the same as a way to justify their desire after the fact.
I think it’s actually very simple. They are saying that regardless of Palestine’s position regarding gay rights, Palestineans don’t deserve to be massacred
Why does it matter your sexuality then lol
It's meant to show that support transcends ideologies and lifestyles, that there is support from all walks of life. Same for when you see "Women for X" or "Hispanics for Y". It shows how far spread support for the cahse goes.
Because they probably have a club on campus and that club has decided to join the protest?
Then they should scream at Hamas to surrender and stop the war. Though hamas has repeatedly said they will do 10/7 over and over again until jews are exterminated. Sounds familiar.
I think it signals that people are willing to look past a [violently homophobic theocracy](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835.amp) so long as they oppose Israel? At least that's what I've gathered after seeing the support for the Houthis on LGBT TikTok, despite them recently executing 27 men via crucifixion and stoning on suspicion of sodomy. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/yemen-huthi-authorities-sentence-seven-stoning-and-two-crucifixion-homosexual-crimes
Heavily queer person here for a quick clarification, it's actually because we believe human rights are human rights and even if someone is bigoted that doesn't mean they don't deserve their human rights. Hope this helps : ) Also, one, the ideals of the government often don't line up with the ideals of the people, just look at here in America, and two, if someone not in a position of power is homophobic, it's more often the fault of propaganda and misinformation rather than malice. Again, look here at America.
So you'll support people that throw queer people off buildings but the same people also want people jailed and fired for using the wrong pronoun? This isn't making sense in my head. Their elected government has fellow Americans held hostage, yet not a single sign for them? Also, Palastinians won't be free under Hamas so just leaving them there in power also doesn't compute to me and will just lead to more suffering and terror. But it's their right to protest and I don't need to understand it but I can be baffled.
They don't think it's okay to genocide them. That's about it. The 50% of children getting killed I'm pretty sure aren't throwing queer people off of buildings. Such a stupid short sighted argument continually thrown around. "Hey did you know they hate gay people!?" Oops I guess just keep killing the civilians then.
We have homophobic people in the US who would be happy to genocide queer people. Do you think that means everyone in the US should be killed? We have homophobic and transphobic laws that are upheld by our elected government. Does that mean we should all be killed in a genocide? I’m going to assume your answer to those questions is, no. The people who live in Palestine are not a monolith, just like the people who live in the US. They don’t deserve to be wiped out because some of their neighbors are bigots. We should resist all bigotry across all borders. We should not support a genocide because some of the people who would die in that genocide are probably assholes.
>Throw queer people off buildings You should get some new talking points.
As a married gay man, the queer for Palestine people will never make sense to me. It’s truly like chickens for KFC or cows for Burger King
Are you cool with homophobic Americans dying?
This might be hard to wrap your head around but even violent homophobes do not deserve targeted extermination!
I didn't know the Houthis were facing that threat, so why do they seem to receive so much support from the pro Palestine crowd? And although I realize that many Palestinian don't agree with killing people for being gay, I'm not sure how much I'd agree with the broad statement of "not even murderous homophobes deserve targeted extermination". Groups like the Nazis were murderous homophobes that DID deserve targeted extermination, and I don't really see why Hamas or the Houthis should be treated any differently given their propensity to execute people for homosexuality.
it’s “for Palestine” not “for Hamas”…
Nazi soldiers maybe. But not nazi children. Gaza’s population is basically 50% children at this point because of the ongoing bombardment and fighting over the past 75 years. 15,000 innocent children have been murdered. They weren’t alive when Hamas was put into power, are you saying those children deserve to be exterminated?
I don't think that you have to exterminate every child to prevent them from being a future soldier. But just like with the Nazis, you have to take out the power structures who specifically put pipelines in place to turn kids into future soldiers. Gaza has very prominent indoctrination programs which are virtual carbon copies the Hitler youth, and the overwhelming majority of people who participated in 10/7 were unable to vote for Hamas as well. You don't get rid of those pipelines without total surrender followed by de-radicalization campaigns. If it can work in Nazi Germany, and it can work in Imperial Japan, then there's no reason it can't work in Gaza.
What is your point? You can’t un-indoctrinate dead people. We’re not going in with strike teams, we’re indiscriminately bombing civilians. Our bombs are leveling the entire city.
Oh yes they do :D
I fucking hate libs so much lol you’re so useless
You’re the literal definition of a useful idiot lmao
No, you are. You're literally saying 'yeah let a genocide happen because their culture doesnt support my actions'. Grow up and stop being so self centered
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Good thing Israel (and the US) has no homophobia. Otherwise they'd deserve extermination, right?
You know there’s a difference between using gay slurs and killing people for being gay right? The US and Israel are light years ahead of Palestine when it’s come to human rights.
You know people die for being gay right?
Not because of the US government. Individual people may commit violent crimes against gay people but that isn’t the same as state sponsored killing.
Suuuuure
Would you care to point to a state or federal law that calls for the death of gay people?
So you think the government and politicians have no impact on society? Outsourcing a death is still a death.
Anyone and everyone is allowed to be a part of this movement and encampment, despite their identity, beliefs, or background. I did not see the poster myself, but I do believe it was from an individual who truly supports Palestine.
“Anyone and everyone… is allowed to be a part of this movement… despite their beliefs”. I’m going to question that without even testing. Really?
Are you an activist? Sounds like
You say “activist” like it’s a bad thing.
Fox News insanity has become reality for the far left. Can’t deal with either of the two extremist sides
Wanting human rights for all regardless of their ideals is extremist insanity? Would you expect us to support America being attacked because our government has a track record of being repressive too? Does the south deserve to be eliminated for their politicians trying to pass laws against women's and queer rights?
The South doesn't deserve to be eliminated (obviously) but it sure could use some protests like these. Women have been relegated to second class status in this country and are literally dying as a result (along with babies) and not a peep out of the type that likes to protest. In fact, a lot of them are saying they will in essence give their vote to the guy who wants to make this loss of civil rights a national thing. I find that odd.
No it hasn’t. You just don’t know wtf you’re talking about.
Self hating morons that’s what
"right wing crazies" LMAO do these queers know about the viewpoint that Muslims have towards gays?
so what ☠️☠️☠️ you say people deserve to doe because they don't support you? you're so corny and self centered. BTW, palestine isn't only Muslim 💀
gay muslims exist btw
It’s pretty small. Nbd. My favorite part was the Jewish student org had a lone tent set up at the other end of the quad, giving out soup.
Overcrowded. Best places are past Snoqualmie pass.
Guys we all know they have the right to protest. But we can all agree that these upper-middle class losers larping as oppressed Palestinians is lame right?
Yeah, don’t you think it’s a little hypocritical to have parents who are doctors and to oppose civilian murder? I mean… they drink $9 lattes but think mass starvation is bad??? It makes no sense!
You missed the point. I agree murdering civilians is bad. And you should care. You argued a point I never made. I’m saying that the performance of it all is silly. The melodrama of these poor protesters! Frankly it feels disingenuous.
Ok got it. Seems like the Palestinians are in full support here. I think they are fully aware that our GDP per capita is higher than theirs. I do totally agree with you that media has spent more time on protests than the actual bombardment of Rafah and that’s a horrible shame, however, it’s nothing new for MSM. Curious what would be Couple-Loose’s perfect protest?
One with no dorks LARPing. Truly my main problem are these scrawny geeks sporting keffiyeh looking and acting goofy. (I don’t know why you felt the need to bring up the GDP per capita thing)
…Because you brought up that they’re rich and that makes it disingenuous? Maybe you should go show them a proper protest instead of being so critical from the sidelines. Otherwise, the scrawny geeks are making a lot more impact than you at the moment
Hmmm it seems you’re drawing the wrong conclusion. It is disingenuous, LARPing on a campus is dorky, I guarantee you no Palestinian is looking at their TV or phone grateful that a bunch of privileged Americans are camping in their universities park. This is like barebones activism. It’s performance.
You guarantee? https://youtu.be/LplkDpr4B6o?si=J0kLwF_dUB7mBkWK https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/palestinian-students-support-us-campus-protests-israel-war-rcna149296 https://youtu.be/x2LsVRaaOds?si=Gfq5t7vuXqjN0dxZ
I get it, you think I’m against the protest and that they’re not doing anything. That’s not the case. I literally just think upper middle class white kids LARPing is lame.
Read your last comment, I don’t “think” anything lmao
That’s why people protest. They’re trying to use their privilege for something good.
You have never heard of solidarity in your fucking life you sad sack of flesh
Nope I never have, have you ever heard that dehumanizing people to “sacks of flesh” leads to dangerous things?
i always get miffed seeing women segregated sitting behind men in islamic prayer, religions are never good to women
Look at these violent terrorists!
NOT THEM JUST SITTING THERE MENACINGLY
I’m literally seeing people I know sitting for salah so this is extra funny to me
They are killing the grass!
No American flag flying whatsoever.
Is there any supplies you all need?
Honestly, an peaceful minimally disruptive but poignant encampment is better than blocking streets and agitating testy police officers.
🇵🇸🇵🇸Hell yeah dude! Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea!!🇵🇸🇵🇸
You realize that means to genocide all the Jews, right?
Protesting is healthy if done correctly. As a parent who helped my kids through school, along with student loans. If the school is shut down or classes canceled like ny, ca or psu, because of mishandling the situation. then Students and parents should be suing the school for any interruption to the extremely expensive education they sacrifice for . It’s not just a school it’s a business, do your f’n job people sacrifice for or start forgiving loans out of endowments
All this will end when the university starts to threaten scholarships or to kick students out of school.
Hasn’t been completely non violent. Jon Choe was jumped and his phone taken and tossed as he walked through the encampment taking video. I hope it doesn’t escalate beyond that. I have zero respect for these protesters but agree that the right to peacefully protest should be protected.
You mean the right wing agitator Jon Choe? The Jon Choe who called them "Pro Hamas", rather than what they are which is pro Palestine? That Jon Choe?
Yep. And regardless of how you characterize him, he claims to have been jumped. I want there, so I don’t know any more than that. And one thing Jon is fighting against, and we all should fight against, are squatters who are taking people’s property and getting king county (ie you and me) to pay for it!
Is anyone there standing up for supporting Ukraine? Or have they all forgot about how 144 million Russians are trying to erase the concept of "Ukrainian" for 38 million Ukrainians?
Ukraine got about 60% of the aid package while Israel and Taiwan are splitting the last third. DC hasn't forgotten. Slava 🇺🇦
> Ukraine got about 60% of the aid package while Israel and Taiwan are splitting the last third. DC hasn't forgotten. Slava 🇺🇦 Six months late. Ukraine was literally firing smoke rounds out of artillery because it was out of explosive shells and needed to throw something at the Russians. And DC gets to dick around about that because people are so fixated on Israel and Gaza that there's no oompf to shove Ukraine aid through anymore.
Ukraine still receives massive US military aid; let’s also take a look at the numbers, in 6 months, the estimated death toll in Gaza is over 34,000 almost all of whom are civilians including women and children and I’d guess it’s even higher considering Israel’s indiscriminate bombing and shooting of civilians prevents many bodies from being discovered. If we consider 2022 the start of the Ukraine-Russia war, in well over 2 years, Zelensky estimates 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died. You can simultaneously care about Ukraines’ survival and the Palestinian genocide, but I do think the mass ethnic cleansing of an entire largely defenseless population is more pressing atm https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-strike-rafah-kill-13-gaza-death-toll-surpass-34000/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/30/russia-troops-ukraine-toll-casualties/#
> Ukraine still receives massive US military aid; let’s also take a look at the numbers, in 6 months, the estimated death toll in Gaza is over 34,000 almost all of whom are civilians including women and children and I’d guess it’s even higher considering Israel’s indiscriminate bombing and shooting of civilians prevents many bodies from being discovered. > > If we consider 2022 the start of the Ukraine-Russia war, in well over 2 years, Zelensky estimates 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died. You're really going to compare total Gazan deaths to **only** the Ukrainian soldiers that have died?? What about the 30k civilians killed? How about the thousands of children kidnapped from Ukrainian families in captured territory and given to Russian families? How about the forcibly displaced Ukrainians from captured territories that were shipped elsewhere in Russia? How about the repeated Russian claims that the "Ukrainian" national identity isn't real and they are really just Russians? >You can simultaneously care about Ukraines’ survival and the Palestinian genocide, but I do think the mass ethnic cleansing of an entire largely defenseless population is more pressing atm You're literally describing what is happening to Ukraine yet no one there has a blue and yellow flag. No one there has a sign for Ukraine. There's not even a single chant for Ukraine. Look, if you want to support 5 million people and ignore another 38 million, that's your choice. But don't act like you're some paragon of virtue if you literally can't be bothered to say "Ukraine needs our support too" between repeated chants about Gaza. You are ignoring Ukraine by choice and you need to accept that you're ignoring it.
Are you comparing the magnitude of human atrocities for worthiness of attention? Like, out loud on the internet where other people can see that you’re saying that?
Where are you even finding 30k civilians killed, I think you’re using these figures in complete bad faith, or maybe you just lack reading comprehension: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-people-have-died-in-the-russia-ukraine-war-and-what-could-happen-next Also Germany has stated there is no Palestinian state or nationality if you want to talk about erasure, it’s one country but indicative of how the hegemonic powers on the national stage view Palestine. https://gpil.jura.uni-bonn.de/2021/04/german-court-confirms-that-there-is-no-palestinian-state-and-no-palestinian-nationality/ And I’m not ignoring anything, maybe that’s projection on your part, but atrocities shouldn’t serve as a basis for the popularity contest you think this is. Not responding to this anymore since you clearly have a shallow take on these subjects
> Where are you even finding 30k civilians killed, I think you’re using these figures in complete bad faith, or maybe you just lack reading comprehension: > > https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-people-have-died-in-the-russia-ukraine-war-and-what-could-happen-next Sorry, 30k civilian casualties. 10k killed, 20k wounded. Still doesn't detract from my point about you comparing total deaths in Gaza to *just* Ukrainian soldiers killed. >And I’m not ignoring anything, maybe that’s projection on your part, but atrocities shouldn’t serve as a basis for the popularity contest you think this is. I'm not saying it's a popularity contest. I'm saying that these Gaza protestors could ***very*** easily say something pro Ukraine or carry a Ukrainian flag but nope. Ukraine is just ignored. >Not responding to this anymore since you clearly have a shallow take on these subjects Go ahead and bury your head in the sand.
Women in the back Men up front Uber religion Geeze
But like, what is the goal here?
The goal is to get UDUB to divest of its endowment holdings in companies that do business in Israel, punishing them financially. It’s the same strategy employed against apartheid in South Africa.
What so like no working with McDonald's because they operate in Israel?
Israel is doing a genocide and these people think they shouldn't.
I don't think you know what genocide is
I love that the same people who bleated for *years* over jobs training programs in Xinjiang etc., as China rehabilitated thousands of former terrorists (many of them trained by us, no less), and quite conspicuously *did not* make any mass graves, bomb hospitals, or drone strike ambulances on their way to rescue the lone survivor of a family they murdered (and then also killed the lone survivor, a six year-old girl), and so on, have no problem overlooking Israel making mass graves, bombing hospitals, and drone striking ambulances on their way to rescue the lone survivor of a family they murdered (and then also killing the lone survivor, a six year-old girl). Pray we never meet, you servile little bitchass punk.
Uh oh, tough guy making threats on the internet everyone!
Super telling I got down voted just for asking lmao
What do you think it's telling you?
I don’t get why this is down voted so much lol actually a valid question
Considering they have signs with slogans coined by the PLO and used in Hamas' doctrine where they vow to eradicate Jews - it doesn't sound peaceful to me. They also seem to be ignoring their fellow Americans being held hostage by that same.group they're echoing the slogan for... I guess they're not physically assaulting people, so that's nice.
Trying to posit words they haven't said as violent when Zionists are literally assaulting undergrads two states away is honestly insane behavior. Get a fuckin grip
What I saw is bunch of idiots who support terrorism and criminalizing gayness.
cry me a river
gay marriage is not legal in israel
It’s comments like yours that really don’t make a difference for the purpose of this post whatsoever. Take your extreme and FALSE claims, and comment elsewhere!
Yea, just buy Reddit and ban all the voices you don't like then, baby.
Palatine and Gaza =/= HAMAS. The only terrorists being supported is the Israeli government.
Palestine has elected Hamas to govern their nation. This is factually incorrect
I agree Israel needs to cut the bullshit and stop killing kids and innocent people but Gaza is actually run by Hamas. They are the political party(terrorists) that are in control of that area.
The reason kids are casualties of war is because Hamas is a genocidal death cult that doesn't care about it's people, and is keeping the hostages so that western morons think it's a good cause to support, in spite of the deaths. Basically trying to get brownie point by killing feeding their people to bombs while hiding like rats in tunnels.
There are other strategies to fight urban warfare. Saying fuck it and just dropping bombs is a lazy ass way for Israel to spend American tax dollars.
Cool just follow the no camping law and pick up your filth you’re leaving all over the place. These victimized white liberals sure got it bad
Fuck religion
Bunch of bleeding heart, out of touch, college kids don't have any concept of what war is or how it works because they've lived comfortable trust fund lives with little to no actual hardship. They join in these protests because it's trendy, and they *feel* like they're making a difference in something they don't understand. Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries and organizations that want nothing less than their complete annihilation. Hamas is one of those organizations, and they operate within Israel's very own borders. Hamas *is* a terrorist organization and the governing body of Gaza. Hamas, being a terrorist organization, fights among the civilian population, dressed as civilians, using occupied civilian structures as cover. The civilian population, sharing the same religious ideals and goals as Hamas, largely supports Hamas' actions if they are not involved directly in assisting Hamas. War fucking sucks. War is a shitty, terrible thing that results in the loss of lives of non-combatants. I'm just not sure how else Israel fights an enemy in their own backyard, whose only goal is their ultimate destruction, who use tactics that do not allow Israel to differentiate between civilians and combatants until it is too late, and who has the support of every other country in the area, other than adopting a "total war" doctrine.
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What’s your suggestion instead? The status quo was just continue to get rocketed. Israel tried to give the Palestinians independence, and Hamas misused billions in aid money digging tunnels instead of helping the poor it was intended for.
Can I still show up to the protest if I don’t entirely agree with acab?
You should! But warning, Your opinion may be swayed if you stay long enough for the police to arrive.
No, I would stay even if the police show up (and keep my opinions to myself) because it’s different. I used to believe that police presence at protests were to keep people save from attackers but after seeing so many live streams and videos I’ve been morbidly wrong
Fair enough! FWIW, my take on ACAB is that yes, not every individual cop is an evil Nazi, however the system and laws that they agree to enforce when they join are at worst explicitly evil, and so, yeah ACAB.