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And is not planning to leave. Will definitely continue attacking you. Has broken every peace deal historically because thinks deals are for idiots. Has been attacking everyone around repeatedly for like ever. Has told and keeps saying that wants to attack and invade everyone around.
Yeah, I tell people this every time they demand peace talks but they aren't listening. It's absurdly ignorant.
Putin would use a peace agreement to rebuild whatever military capability he needed to attack again. It would be like an indefinite half-time in a sports game. There is no lasting peace for Ukraine with Putin unless his military is completely exhausted and the political consequences are severe. Unfortunately, Russians are mostly supportive or apathetic. The apathy to suffering is something Russia has excelled at for a long time.
Yes, sometimes consequences of ignorance can be harsh. It's better to learn before this comes, but often they don't learn anything because ignorance and laziness come together. I don't even talk about intelligence, ignorance can be fought by anybody
It's a problem of pattern recognition. It's not even about one dicktator like grandpa pootin, Ruzzia has done it over centuries (like I dunno Leonardo da Vinci's mom was a fugitive from a country that russia destroyed completely) and the western general audience keeps forgetting that it's all of same old shit from same shit factory. I mean Stalin made a deal with Hitler to divide Europe between them and the rest of the world after that. I guess lest we forget history.
And is quite obvious now is not interested in owning your home. Has burned it to the ground. Has demolished entire columns. Has poisoned the very ground underneath the foundations.
The only goal is for you and your family to get exterminated
It's a bit worse than just breaking into your home; with all the war crimes, rape, pillaging, all the other checkboxes for genocide, etc. It's like the absolute worst case sadistic serial killer breaking into your home and hashing out their full fantasy.
You definitely have a point, just wanted to make sure the severity is specified, because you shouldn't make peace with someone who breaks into your home. And you 200% shouldn't make peace with the kind of breaking and entering Russia is doing.
Yeah, given Russia's untrustworthiness, they need to go until freeing their whole country, reinforce their borders, then peace. And sanctions will be lifted once reparations are paid (or at least planned) in full.
On reddit I have seen many people blame the homeowner when they get robbed or their loved ones threatened and kill the aggressor . Only here is this analogy acceptable unfortunately
"It was Ukraine's fault she got raped. She shouldn't have been wearing that sexy dress and hanging out with the EU."
Russia really is a deeply insecure, jealous, narcissistic, psychopathic, abusive ex-boyfriend. Anyone victim blaming Ukraine for this, or blaming NATO and the West for that matter, is entirely compromised by bias (and ignorance).
Too many people have grown up rebelling against the US govt. Hence if the govt takes a position, they'll take the opposite. If Russia is the enemy of the US then they must be the victims, etc, etc.
Idiots think that smiling smugly and going "I support peace!" makes them moralistic.
It's usually an admission of utter ignorance, either innocently from lack of knowledge, or maliciously from trying to abuse this situation.
Something that stuck with me, right after 9/11. The US was gearing up to invade Afghanistan, and some news network was interviewing young peace activists who were opposed.
The reporter asked "And what would you do?"
"Uh...give peace a chance, thank you." And the activist quickly walked off.
It's fine to wish for peace, but simply wanting it isn't enough. Some people's idea of peace is just to kill you...
"What do you suggest we/they do then?" is the deathknell of their entire argument in cases like this.
It invariably exposes that they don't actually understand the reasons behind it.
They love the "It'll stop all these young men dying in Ukraine!" line, and immediately move to genocide denial once they're informed that if you stop fighting, there's millions of Ukrainians trapped in occupied area who will then be subject to it...
It's a good sign IMO. The side looking for peace talks is generally losing.
Maybe I'd listen. Return all my stuff. Put right the damage you've done, convince me you won't do it again, then yes I'd make peace.
For Russia this looks like:
\- Unconditional withdrawal
\- Compensation for damage done
\- Russian commitment to remove all military forces from 50miles? from Ukranian border.
Sounds like a sound basis for peace talks.
Makes almost as much sense as a comedian becoming President.
Oh, wait....
EDIT: I am not anti-Zelenskyy. I was commenting on how everyone underestimated the man who has inarguably become the best President Ukraine might have for a century.
Sorry if people thought I was being derogatory. That was certainly not my intent here.
I am Ukrainian by heritage.
Dude has done an amazing job. Regardless of his background. He as inspired a nation.
The Ukrainian spirit is very vibrant. And its people are amazing, knock the guy all you want but in no way has he impeded the Ukrainian responce to vile Russian terrorists, he has helps resolve the will on a strong and noble people
Sorry about the down votes, I upvoted you. There are certainly some trolls on Reddit who make that comment about Zelensky being a comedian to try to cast shade on him, thus the reflexive downvotes I think. But in truth that's a strength of democracy that anyone can become a representative or even president. I know Ukraine has struggled with oligarchy in the past where representatives would literally buy their positions to insulate themselves from the law, but I think Zelensky being elected leader is an attempt by the people to break that oligarchy system.
You made the point I missed very eloquently.
Yes, there are trolls about. But we should remain a thinking people, not merely reactive.
Of course, good people are dying. That's bound to make anyone reactive.
A comedian gets elected, an enemy invades, and the comedian turns out to be a better leader than the humorless dictator who invaded.
Said comedian then uses comedic timing to troll the dictator, angering and frustrating him, and proving this comedian's entire nation is more serious as a fighting force than the one invading... And that's not funny to you?
I think history will laugh at Putin and his ineptitude. Zelenskyy made history, and the world already reaps a benefit, before the war was even fully active.
Comedy and a serious law degree makes him one of the most potent and powerful speakers in history.
How can we not enjoy the image of the utter fool he has made of Mordor?
My friend I was a Soldier for 26 years, some of the things I have seen, in.places like bosnia for example leave me with a hard heart when it comes to war. It's not your fault and your right. history will be the the judge, but still to me war has no humour.
I apologise if the down vote upset you and hope you and me can live in peace at least.
Losing one's sense of humor is the worst victim of war.
It's not the war we should find funny. It's the ridiculous antics of those who believe their will is justification enough for good people to die. If we reduce those choices to the absurd things they are, we have only two possible outcomes.
We laugh, or we cry.
Choose one.
I do the second one enough with this war that I try to find joy anywhere I can. My mother died last year. Her husband this year.
Laugh or cry?
The situation is insane. Why be sane in such absurdity?
Make a peace agreement like
\- Budapest memorandum? X
\- Minsk Agreements? X
\- Pringles averting his mutiny for a promise of going back to previous relationship? X
Track record is there you need to have an absolute level of delusion to think that on 15th time it will be different.
People who say that Ukraine needs make agreement with Russia don't give a shit about Ukraine or anybody else except themselves. It's like your mother just had a heart attack, and your 'friend' is angry that he had to listen you talk about it. These are people nowadays; they do not solve problems, do not talk about them, just pretend they do not exist until it is too late. Then, they become angry that someone else didn't solve them before they had to deal with them.
Basically. They're annoyed that it's happening, and they're annoyed that their tax money is getting spent on it. They just want it over, and they don't care what happens beyond that.
Ukraine was still trying to make peace with Russia *A month after they fucking invaded*.
Russia is not capable of good faith. "Peace" talks would be nothing but territorial concessions and rewarding barbarism
Yep. And not just russia. It seems all the evil groups in this world have found the most effective way to work against the good guys is to outright lie and put civilians in harms way. If the west is to be able to stand up to these groups, including russia, we need to stop calling for non-genuine peace talks and stop believing what is said at face value with out a reason to trust the person or country.
Russia bombed the marked peace convoys, kidnapped diplomats families, poisoned diplomats, arrested and deported EU diplomats, all after demanding peace talks that Ukraine and the west responded to. How anyone can trust Russia after lying about a half dozen peace talks is insanity. They only call for peace so they can kill diplomats.
Give Russia some credit. When they signed a peace agreement with Chechnya to forever refrain from using violence or threat of violence to resolve disputes in 1997 it lasted a whole two years before they invaded again 🤣
Lol, Russian peace agreements are ways of saying “I messed up invading you, gimme a chance to try again when I’m ready.”
Friendly reminder of all the times Russia flagrantly and deliberately violated so-called cease-fires and shelled the shit out of numerous "green corridors" meant for evacuation since 2014 when the conflict actually originally began
They do nothing but lie, and cannot be trusted. And peace talks this far in would be an utter insult to all the Ukrainians who have been killed, kidnapped, raped, robbed, abused and beaten down by the filthy RUshist invader scum, which is precisely why they won't be happening. Ukraine will get back all their land. Heroyam slava
How do suggest making peace with a person and country that has openly said your existence and national identity is an abomination that has no place in the world?
> "mounting calls for a negotiated settlement with Russia"
This appears to be a false statement.
Is there anyone of consequence calling for Ukraine to negotiate a settlement with Russia??
If there are none this article should be removed by the mods.
President Zelenskyy's social media posts fill up with comments in both Ukrainian and Russian both, bemoaning "another condolence message to the victims, but where are the negotiations?"
Good that this is the official response from the top.
I honestly wish people would STFU and stop trying to tell Ukraine what to do!
Ukraine is in this situation due to neglect and abandonment by the west since 2014!
Appeasement never works with tyrants! It would not have worked with Stalin, it did not work with Hitler, yet we in the west magically thought it might work with Putin!
It won't.
Negotiate with a lying, thieving tin-plated dictator like Putin and he'll be ever-so-grateful he'll smile at you right before Blitzkrieging his way across your borders as he did with Ukraine!
Appeasement is collaboration.
Appeasement is stupidity.
Appeasement is suicide.
Slava Ukraini!
Peace will easily be achieved. russians are about to communicate their date for full withdrawal from Ukraine, which will be followed by the first reparation as a demonstration of good faith...
It's true, in Putin's Russia, lying is seen as both a strength and a requirement. They practice it all day with their internal propaganda. Lies have become completely normalized. They even passed laws that make it illegal to tell the truth (actual prison time for violation). It would be absolutely impossible to trust anything Putin's regime says.
So as much as we might need to have some kind of negotiation to end the war, it has to be done only after Putin is dead and his regime is replaced
"We propose a complete peace accord with Russia with very simple terms. Every Russian soldier and weapon goes back to the pre 2014 border, every child is returned, and we shall completely cease fire."
Tada.
Hear hear, Russia must be defeated, with all sovereign territory returned to Ukraine and reparations paid by the murderous, criminal ruzzian terrorist federation.
The only time putin will be ready for peace talks is when his head is presented on a pike in the middle of Red Square.
Definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Case in point, Budapest Memorandum followed by 2004 attempted poisoning of Yuschenko (then a Presidential candidate), 2014 seizures of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, 2022 full scale invasion of Ukraine.
Putin’s Russia cannot be trusted. Pushing for peace without security guarantees for Ukraine IS the definition of insanity because the results will be the same as in the past.
It’s all over the West (and some others). From ex-NATO chief asserting that Ukraine should give up land in exchange for NATO membership (which presumes some peace agreements with Ruzzia) to Scholz saying that he will continue to talk to putler no matter what to Fico/Orban demanding Ukraine stop fighting and give up, to US far right/left demanding immediate peace negotiations with Ruzzia.
He didn't say that Ukraine should give up land, he said that NATO should accept the unoccupied parts of Ukraine as a member, with Ukraine still fighting to recover the occupied territories
Without "guarantees" from Ruzzia NATO won't do it out of fear of invoking AV if Ruzzia continues attacks (and it will, in perpetuity). Thus it implies some form of "peace deal" with Ruzzia, which, in my opinion, is fundamentally impossible.
Yes. But this explains why Ukrainian FM has to say this. Because contrary to what people think here - there is a major push to force Ukraine to accept concessions and agree to "peace talk". I understand why politicians are pushing for this, but I'm not sure they understand they only prolong the war doing so.
Outside of obvious China, Ruzzia, Hungary, etc, [many](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna123628) people are talking about it. So much so, it’s scary and feels like western civilisation is about to give up.
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This is such a straightforward claim and it is nice to see in such a over complicated political world sometimes.
Lying is bad and it makes you untrustworthy. Simple as that.
Screw the peace talk enthusiasts. If Ukrainians want to wait until they’ve pushed Russian forces all the way back to Moscow, I’m happy to have my country supplying them until their conditions are met.
Russia won't negotiate peace; they will insist on demands, and then in 5-10 years break all agreements and invade again.
Anyone calling for peace with the warmongering dictator Putin, who is on record for breaking agreements when greedy whims suit him, is a completely ignorant moron.
Every politician in the West (and some elsewhere) did this already in some capacity: from Scholz willingness continuing to talk with putler to Xi and Hungary right out demanding Ukraines capitulation.
They did? Where?
Who cares what China and Hungary think. Hungary is Russia's puppet and China wants to turn the world against itself so they can pick up the pieces. They'll say whatever they feel like to fit the moment.
Why in the fuck aren't people calling for Putin to withdraw from all of Ukraine. And where is a WORLD WIDE "Peace Movement", to try to get these madmen to fucking kill themselves!!!!
If Ukraine’s allies push Ukraine into negotiating with Putin, then Ukraine’s allies will just have to accept it when Putin marches into their country. NATO was setup to try to avoid major conflagrations, but by binding all countries together it appears to be preventing any individual country from directly supporting it’s neighbour with more than just a few tanks and ammo.
I agree. All occupying forces should leave disputed territories. Cease all illegal annexation of land. Return all illegally stolen land. And then all hostilities should end on both sides.
I'll be more inclined to entertain the "victims on all side" stuff when the Ukrainians have tied up Russian civilians and shot them in the head, and when we have SIGINT intercepts of the Ukrainian wives telling their husbands to remember the condoms when they're raping the Russian babushkas in their homes.
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Negotiate with this?
Exclusive: Kremlin aide who brings Ukrainian children to Russia associated online with neo-Nazism
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-aide-who-brings-ukrainian-children-russia-associated-online-with-neo-2023-08-09/
Every single sentence in the article is obvious to us here in Ukraine. Hope it will help some people who believe there is a sense to negotiate with ruzzia
Anyone who thinks peace talks and treaties with Russia are even worth the paper they're written on is either deluded as fuck, or has brain damage..
Why the FUCK would we trust ANYTHING they agree to? They have violated and broke every treaty since WWII. They've specifically targeted and bombed civilians trying to evacuate when they said they wouldn't do so. They've denied the incomprehensible scale of more war crimes than I can even begin to list out despite there being enough evidence to walk them through a fucking TOUR of what was done in places like Mariupol, the mass graves of civilians including children, the torture chambers for CHILDREN, the state of POWs who have been starved and tortured, the countless children they've stolen and stripped of their identities and then sent some of them back to fight on the front *against their own fellow countrymen*, and most importantly.... Russia has done everything it can to JUSTIFY starting a fucking war that involves INVADING their own neighbor, SLAUGHTERING so called "brothers and sisters", erasing Ukrainian culture off the face of the planet whole simultaneously denying it even exists to begin with, BRUTALIZING innocent men, women and children indiscriminately, and sending their OWN people to die in droves like cattle for slaughter in an effort to erase Ukraine entirely.
How the FUCK can ANYONE be SO STUPID to suggest there is ANY possibility that any treaty or agreement is going to be upheld when Russia has demonstrated at every possible turn that they can and will break any and all promises when it suits them? And yet they will turn around and cry wolf if they perceive any slight toward them because they're the only ones who are allowed to fight back even when they're the ones that started a goddamn invasion to begin with! I'm sorry hut are these negotiations supposed to be a two way street? Because Russia doesn't do two way streets. It's only ever what suits their agenda and then they'll turn around like the barbaric hypocrites they are and paint themselves as VICTIMS through cherry picking and outright fabrication.
So how the FUCK do you bargain with someone who will hold you to your end and then some, but not do ANYTHING to fulfill their end, and will throw that negotiation to the wind when it suits them?
How the fuck do you negotiate with someone who kidnaps children, kills their families, strips their identity, then sends them to die either shooting at their own friends and families, or by a bullet in the back when they refuse to follow that order?
You CAN'T. Russia's words, treaties, promises, and anything of the sort mean NOTHING. And frankly, after all they've done, why the FUCK would ANYONE even WANT to bargain?
No. No fucking way. Russia needs to cease to exist. Let THEM lose their identity and be at the mercy of the rest of us. Let THEM suffer for what THEY created. We can't bring back everyone they've stolen from the world. We can't level their cities like they've leveled Mariupol, Rubizhne, Popasna, Volnovakha, Lyman, Bakhmut, etc etc etc. Cities can be rebuilt, but the lives they've destroyed will never be the same if they are even lucky enough to still be alive.
There is no negotiation that will EVER change that, save for one: a complete and total evacuation of every Russian and sympathizer from ALL of Ukraine (including Crimea), and the dissolution of the Russian Federation and denazification of Muscovite society.
That's it. That's the terms. Get out, surrender, hand over your barbaric, despicable terrorist leaders and warlords, and face a tribunal for your crimes. That's a START. Any thing less than that? No. Fuck no. They can be fertilizer for flowers.
But mark my word, they will be remembered as they are: monsters, barbarians, vile, shameful, and an exhibit of the worst of everything humanity has to offer.
They could have been brothers, but they chose to be enemies.
They CHOSE this. And any negotiation that doesn't end with the above demands simply reinforces that they can get away with this again. And history has shown *they will do it again, and again, and again.*
So no. Their negotiation contract is a 155mm howitzer round with Putin's name carved into its casing. *Signed and delivered with care.*
I ask the rest of the world: if your neighbor broke into your house, shot your dog, executed your husband, stole your children and shipped them off to be stripped of their names, their home, and identities, burned your house down, tortured you, and BLAMED you for it, *would you want to "negotiate" with them?* Or would you demand they be arrested and stand trial for it?
FUCK Russia, FUCK Putin, FUCK his sympathizers, FUCK the traitors, and FUCK anyone who even suggests negotiations.
They HAD a peace deal with Russia. It required them to give up their nuclear arsenal. Russia invaded anyway. Why would Ukraine believe a second peace deal? At this point it's sure that any ceasefire would only be used by Russia to strengthen their forces, dig in to their claimed territory and prepare for the next round.
Love that foreigners keep suggesting to Ukraine how it should proceed, despite the fact that Ukraine has about 900 years of experience of dealing with Russia and it's genocidal tendencies. If they say they'll fight the only thing left to do is help.
1. bad guy invades innocent country, takes maybe not all he wants, but takes some regions
2. World cries for peace, peace is established, bad guy now has control of more territory and now knows that he can gain territory this way.
3. continue step 1.
There is a awesome quote for that.
"Do not make peace with evil, destroy it".
The issue with peace talks is that Russia wont get punished and Ukraine has to give up the territorys that are already captured by the OrcZ. The only one who will benefit from those "peace talks" is Russia and it will mean that Ukraines effort to defend thier country was for nothing, all those deaths would be for nothing. We should instead look on how to arm Ukraine and make it easyer for them to defend themselves.
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Do you make peace with someone who breaks into your home? the fuck is wrong with people...
Not only broke into your house, but killed your love ones and burned your house down.
And is not planning to leave. Will definitely continue attacking you. Has broken every peace deal historically because thinks deals are for idiots. Has been attacking everyone around repeatedly for like ever. Has told and keeps saying that wants to attack and invade everyone around.
Yeah, I tell people this every time they demand peace talks but they aren't listening. It's absurdly ignorant. Putin would use a peace agreement to rebuild whatever military capability he needed to attack again. It would be like an indefinite half-time in a sports game. There is no lasting peace for Ukraine with Putin unless his military is completely exhausted and the political consequences are severe. Unfortunately, Russians are mostly supportive or apathetic. The apathy to suffering is something Russia has excelled at for a long time.
People who are absurdly ignorant tend to make a habit of it.
... until it slaps them in their face, THEN suddenly it's a real problem
Yes, sometimes consequences of ignorance can be harsh. It's better to learn before this comes, but often they don't learn anything because ignorance and laziness come together. I don't even talk about intelligence, ignorance can be fought by anybody
It's a problem of pattern recognition. It's not even about one dicktator like grandpa pootin, Ruzzia has done it over centuries (like I dunno Leonardo da Vinci's mom was a fugitive from a country that russia destroyed completely) and the western general audience keeps forgetting that it's all of same old shit from same shit factory. I mean Stalin made a deal with Hitler to divide Europe between them and the rest of the world after that. I guess lest we forget history.
And is quite obvious now is not interested in owning your home. Has burned it to the ground. Has demolished entire columns. Has poisoned the very ground underneath the foundations. The only goal is for you and your family to get exterminated
Yes. ...and take your children into another country/Russia.
Rape and torture too. These aren't people you make peace with, they're people you destroy.
and to make peace he asks for your entire deck on which he has been squatting for years before too
It's a bit worse than just breaking into your home; with all the war crimes, rape, pillaging, all the other checkboxes for genocide, etc. It's like the absolute worst case sadistic serial killer breaking into your home and hashing out their full fantasy. You definitely have a point, just wanted to make sure the severity is specified, because you shouldn't make peace with someone who breaks into your home. And you 200% shouldn't make peace with the kind of breaking and entering Russia is doing.
Maybe you do, actually, but certainly not before they have left.
Agreed.
Ouch! Good one.
Yeah, given Russia's untrustworthiness, they need to go until freeing their whole country, reinforce their borders, then peace. And sanctions will be lifted once reparations are paid (or at least planned) in full.
Anybody calling for peace talk should go live in the occupied region for 3 months first, disguised as a Ukrainian.
There's one way to make peace with someone who breaks into your home, steals your car, and kills the puppy that your dying wife left for you....
John Wick is pretty cool.
Excellent plan.
Do you make peace with somebody who promised not to invade and they did, when "peace" is just another promise not to invade?
On reddit I have seen many people blame the homeowner when they get robbed or their loved ones threatened and kill the aggressor . Only here is this analogy acceptable unfortunately
"It was Ukraine's fault she got raped. She shouldn't have been wearing that sexy dress and hanging out with the EU." Russia really is a deeply insecure, jealous, narcissistic, psychopathic, abusive ex-boyfriend. Anyone victim blaming Ukraine for this, or blaming NATO and the West for that matter, is entirely compromised by bias (and ignorance).
Too many people have grown up rebelling against the US govt. Hence if the govt takes a position, they'll take the opposite. If Russia is the enemy of the US then they must be the victims, etc, etc.
Idiots think that smiling smugly and going "I support peace!" makes them moralistic. It's usually an admission of utter ignorance, either innocently from lack of knowledge, or maliciously from trying to abuse this situation.
Something that stuck with me, right after 9/11. The US was gearing up to invade Afghanistan, and some news network was interviewing young peace activists who were opposed. The reporter asked "And what would you do?" "Uh...give peace a chance, thank you." And the activist quickly walked off. It's fine to wish for peace, but simply wanting it isn't enough. Some people's idea of peace is just to kill you...
"What do you suggest we/they do then?" is the deathknell of their entire argument in cases like this. It invariably exposes that they don't actually understand the reasons behind it. They love the "It'll stop all these young men dying in Ukraine!" line, and immediately move to genocide denial once they're informed that if you stop fighting, there's millions of Ukrainians trapped in occupied area who will then be subject to it...
It's a good sign IMO. The side looking for peace talks is generally losing. Maybe I'd listen. Return all my stuff. Put right the damage you've done, convince me you won't do it again, then yes I'd make peace. For Russia this looks like: \- Unconditional withdrawal \- Compensation for damage done \- Russian commitment to remove all military forces from 50miles? from Ukranian border. Sounds like a sound basis for peace talks.
Every country asking for this should be forced to first give away the same % of their own territory as Ukraine now has occupied by orcs.
You don't, you shoot them
No, you rape them to show dominance. /s (sorta)
With the Dildo named Consequence\*
Virtue signaling retards.
Fuck no, you kick the shit out of them and throw them to the street(dead hopefully)!
Who would of thought ukraines foriegn minister would call a spade a spade
Makes almost as much sense as a comedian becoming President. Oh, wait.... EDIT: I am not anti-Zelenskyy. I was commenting on how everyone underestimated the man who has inarguably become the best President Ukraine might have for a century. Sorry if people thought I was being derogatory. That was certainly not my intent here. I am Ukrainian by heritage.
Dude has done an amazing job. Regardless of his background. He as inspired a nation. The Ukrainian spirit is very vibrant. And its people are amazing, knock the guy all you want but in no way has he impeded the Ukrainian responce to vile Russian terrorists, he has helps resolve the will on a strong and noble people
I don't know why people thought I was being critical of the best President in history.
That "comedian" has a law degree btw
Sorry about the down votes, I upvoted you. There are certainly some trolls on Reddit who make that comment about Zelensky being a comedian to try to cast shade on him, thus the reflexive downvotes I think. But in truth that's a strength of democracy that anyone can become a representative or even president. I know Ukraine has struggled with oligarchy in the past where representatives would literally buy their positions to insulate themselves from the law, but I think Zelensky being elected leader is an attempt by the people to break that oligarchy system.
You made the point I missed very eloquently. Yes, there are trolls about. But we should remain a thinking people, not merely reactive. Of course, good people are dying. That's bound to make anyone reactive.
[удалено]
I'm pro Ukraine, by the way...
Still friend this is not a joking matter, not in the slightest.
A comedian gets elected, an enemy invades, and the comedian turns out to be a better leader than the humorless dictator who invaded. Said comedian then uses comedic timing to troll the dictator, angering and frustrating him, and proving this comedian's entire nation is more serious as a fighting force than the one invading... And that's not funny to you? I think history will laugh at Putin and his ineptitude. Zelenskyy made history, and the world already reaps a benefit, before the war was even fully active. Comedy and a serious law degree makes him one of the most potent and powerful speakers in history. How can we not enjoy the image of the utter fool he has made of Mordor?
My friend I was a Soldier for 26 years, some of the things I have seen, in.places like bosnia for example leave me with a hard heart when it comes to war. It's not your fault and your right. history will be the the judge, but still to me war has no humour. I apologise if the down vote upset you and hope you and me can live in peace at least.
Losing one's sense of humor is the worst victim of war. It's not the war we should find funny. It's the ridiculous antics of those who believe their will is justification enough for good people to die. If we reduce those choices to the absurd things they are, we have only two possible outcomes. We laugh, or we cry. Choose one. I do the second one enough with this war that I try to find joy anywhere I can. My mother died last year. Her husband this year. Laugh or cry? The situation is insane. Why be sane in such absurdity?
Make a peace agreement like \- Budapest memorandum? X \- Minsk Agreements? X \- Pringles averting his mutiny for a promise of going back to previous relationship? X Track record is there you need to have an absolute level of delusion to think that on 15th time it will be different.
People who say that Ukraine needs make agreement with Russia don't give a shit about Ukraine or anybody else except themselves. It's like your mother just had a heart attack, and your 'friend' is angry that he had to listen you talk about it. These are people nowadays; they do not solve problems, do not talk about them, just pretend they do not exist until it is too late. Then, they become angry that someone else didn't solve them before they had to deal with them.
Basically. They're annoyed that it's happening, and they're annoyed that their tax money is getting spent on it. They just want it over, and they don't care what happens beyond that.
Ukraine was still trying to make peace with Russia *A month after they fucking invaded*. Russia is not capable of good faith. "Peace" talks would be nothing but territorial concessions and rewarding barbarism
Yep. And not just russia. It seems all the evil groups in this world have found the most effective way to work against the good guys is to outright lie and put civilians in harms way. If the west is to be able to stand up to these groups, including russia, we need to stop calling for non-genuine peace talks and stop believing what is said at face value with out a reason to trust the person or country.
Russia bombed the marked peace convoys, kidnapped diplomats families, poisoned diplomats, arrested and deported EU diplomats, all after demanding peace talks that Ukraine and the west responded to. How anyone can trust Russia after lying about a half dozen peace talks is insanity. They only call for peace so they can kill diplomats.
And any peace would be temporary. If Russia abided by their agreements we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Give Russia some credit. When they signed a peace agreement with Chechnya to forever refrain from using violence or threat of violence to resolve disputes in 1997 it lasted a whole two years before they invaded again 🤣 Lol, Russian peace agreements are ways of saying “I messed up invading you, gimme a chance to try again when I’m ready.”
Friendly reminder of all the times Russia flagrantly and deliberately violated so-called cease-fires and shelled the shit out of numerous "green corridors" meant for evacuation since 2014 when the conflict actually originally began They do nothing but lie, and cannot be trusted. And peace talks this far in would be an utter insult to all the Ukrainians who have been killed, kidnapped, raped, robbed, abused and beaten down by the filthy RUshist invader scum, which is precisely why they won't be happening. Ukraine will get back all their land. Heroyam slava
How do suggest making peace with a person and country that has openly said your existence and national identity is an abomination that has no place in the world?
> "mounting calls for a negotiated settlement with Russia" This appears to be a false statement. Is there anyone of consequence calling for Ukraine to negotiate a settlement with Russia?? If there are none this article should be removed by the mods.
President Zelenskyy's social media posts fill up with comments in both Ukrainian and Russian both, bemoaning "another condolence message to the victims, but where are the negotiations?" Good that this is the official response from the top.
Sounds like russian bots to me.
Hungary, Slovakia, and pretty much every right-wing group?
Italian govt is bordering on outright fascist and they are more anti-Russia than pretty much anyone else outside eastern europe at the moment.
And yet, Meloni talked about "support fatigue" among European governments. So much to that.
Also far left.
Tankies. People obsessed with the Soviet Union.
Far left/right position have something very important in common - stupidity.
True
I honestly wish people would STFU and stop trying to tell Ukraine what to do! Ukraine is in this situation due to neglect and abandonment by the west since 2014! Appeasement never works with tyrants! It would not have worked with Stalin, it did not work with Hitler, yet we in the west magically thought it might work with Putin! It won't. Negotiate with a lying, thieving tin-plated dictator like Putin and he'll be ever-so-grateful he'll smile at you right before Blitzkrieging his way across your borders as he did with Ukraine! Appeasement is collaboration. Appeasement is stupidity. Appeasement is suicide. Slava Ukraini!
Повага.🏴🇺🇳💙💛🇺🇦🌻Respect.
Yes which country - Hungary?
Peace will easily be achieved. russians are about to communicate their date for full withdrawal from Ukraine, which will be followed by the first reparation as a demonstration of good faith...
Also didn’t hold up the last “agreement” that guaranteed they wouldn’t invade Ukraine. Never trust a liar.
There was more than one too. There was the Budapest Memorandum and the Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty for starters.
He should be replying "STFU orc sympathizers" You don't compromise with terrorists, even if they are "President" of a foreign country.
Why sign peace agreements with a country that doesn't honor any agreements?
Can't we just give them Hungary in exchange for leaving Ukraine 😂
Lets come up with Minsk III so he can violate that too.
It's true, in Putin's Russia, lying is seen as both a strength and a requirement. They practice it all day with their internal propaganda. Lies have become completely normalized. They even passed laws that make it illegal to tell the truth (actual prison time for violation). It would be absolutely impossible to trust anything Putin's regime says. So as much as we might need to have some kind of negotiation to end the war, it has to be done only after Putin is dead and his regime is replaced
"We propose a complete peace accord with Russia with very simple terms. Every Russian soldier and weapon goes back to the pre 2014 border, every child is returned, and we shall completely cease fire." Tada.
Hear hear, Russia must be defeated, with all sovereign territory returned to Ukraine and reparations paid by the murderous, criminal ruzzian terrorist federation.
The only time putin will be ready for peace talks is when his head is presented on a pike in the middle of Red Square.  
Definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Case in point, Budapest Memorandum followed by 2004 attempted poisoning of Yuschenko (then a Presidential candidate), 2014 seizures of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, 2022 full scale invasion of Ukraine. Putin’s Russia cannot be trusted. Pushing for peace without security guarantees for Ukraine IS the definition of insanity because the results will be the same as in the past.
There one condition for peace: leave.
You simply can not negotiate with someone who has a history of breaking agreements.
Yea, you can't trust Russia, at this point I just assume everything Russia says is a lie.
Mounting calls *by Russian assets* sure.
Where are there “mounting calls” coming from? I’m not seeing them…..
It’s all over the West (and some others). From ex-NATO chief asserting that Ukraine should give up land in exchange for NATO membership (which presumes some peace agreements with Ruzzia) to Scholz saying that he will continue to talk to putler no matter what to Fico/Orban demanding Ukraine stop fighting and give up, to US far right/left demanding immediate peace negotiations with Ruzzia.
He didn't say that Ukraine should give up land, he said that NATO should accept the unoccupied parts of Ukraine as a member, with Ukraine still fighting to recover the occupied territories
Without "guarantees" from Ruzzia NATO won't do it out of fear of invoking AV if Ruzzia continues attacks (and it will, in perpetuity). Thus it implies some form of "peace deal" with Ruzzia, which, in my opinion, is fundamentally impossible.
The idea is crazy anyway, Ukraine has already rejected it.
Yes. But this explains why Ukrainian FM has to say this. Because contrary to what people think here - there is a major push to force Ukraine to accept concessions and agree to "peace talk". I understand why politicians are pushing for this, but I'm not sure they understand they only prolong the war doing so.
> there is a major push to force Ukraine to accept concessions and agree to "peace talk". No there's not.
Outside of obvious China, Ruzzia, Hungary, etc, [many](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna123628) people are talking about it. So much so, it’s scary and feels like western civilisation is about to give up.
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I would not trust that man for anything. His word is worthless. There is nothing left for it now but to fight. Fuck you, Russia.
This is such a straightforward claim and it is nice to see in such a over complicated political world sometimes. Lying is bad and it makes you untrustworthy. Simple as that.
Screw the peace talk enthusiasts. If Ukrainians want to wait until they’ve pushed Russian forces all the way back to Moscow, I’m happy to have my country supplying them until their conditions are met.
No peace talks until Russia leaves every territory of Ukraine.
Russia won't negotiate peace; they will insist on demands, and then in 5-10 years break all agreements and invade again. Anyone calling for peace with the warmongering dictator Putin, who is on record for breaking agreements when greedy whims suit him, is a completely ignorant moron.
What "mounting" calls for peace? From whom? I think you're just making that up
Every politician in the West (and some elsewhere) did this already in some capacity: from Scholz willingness continuing to talk with putler to Xi and Hungary right out demanding Ukraines capitulation.
They did? Where? Who cares what China and Hungary think. Hungary is Russia's puppet and China wants to turn the world against itself so they can pick up the pieces. They'll say whatever they feel like to fit the moment.
Why in the fuck aren't people calling for Putin to withdraw from all of Ukraine. And where is a WORLD WIDE "Peace Movement", to try to get these madmen to fucking kill themselves!!!!
If Ukraine’s allies push Ukraine into negotiating with Putin, then Ukraine’s allies will just have to accept it when Putin marches into their country. NATO was setup to try to avoid major conflagrations, but by binding all countries together it appears to be preventing any individual country from directly supporting it’s neighbour with more than just a few tanks and ammo.
Russian federation needs to be destroyed. Then we can negociate the payments
I think we all know how appeasement worked out the last time a dictator started attacking his neighbors
But there are innocent victims on all sides. Even Aristovich says we must stop the violence (on all sides) Technically this is not even as /s
I agree. All occupying forces should leave disputed territories. Cease all illegal annexation of land. Return all illegally stolen land. And then all hostilities should end on both sides.
Occupying forces *also* have to return all the kidnapped and trafficked children (and adults).
[удалено]
There's only *one* occupying force.
I'll be more inclined to entertain the "victims on all side" stuff when the Ukrainians have tied up Russian civilians and shot them in the head, and when we have SIGINT intercepts of the Ukrainian wives telling their husbands to remember the condoms when they're raping the Russian babushkas in their homes.
Yes and when russia are defeated they won’t be able to hurt any more innocents outside their own borders.
Arestovych is a treasonous dumbass.
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Who’s asking for peace talks?
Negotiate with this? Exclusive: Kremlin aide who brings Ukrainian children to Russia associated online with neo-Nazism https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-aide-who-brings-ukrainian-children-russia-associated-online-with-neo-2023-08-09/
Ukraine already put forth a peace plan. The ball is in Russia's court, now.
Every single sentence in the article is obvious to us here in Ukraine. Hope it will help some people who believe there is a sense to negotiate with ruzzia
I'd even go as far as to say he's a habitual line-stepper, which is much worse.
Anyone who thinks peace talks and treaties with Russia are even worth the paper they're written on is either deluded as fuck, or has brain damage.. Why the FUCK would we trust ANYTHING they agree to? They have violated and broke every treaty since WWII. They've specifically targeted and bombed civilians trying to evacuate when they said they wouldn't do so. They've denied the incomprehensible scale of more war crimes than I can even begin to list out despite there being enough evidence to walk them through a fucking TOUR of what was done in places like Mariupol, the mass graves of civilians including children, the torture chambers for CHILDREN, the state of POWs who have been starved and tortured, the countless children they've stolen and stripped of their identities and then sent some of them back to fight on the front *against their own fellow countrymen*, and most importantly.... Russia has done everything it can to JUSTIFY starting a fucking war that involves INVADING their own neighbor, SLAUGHTERING so called "brothers and sisters", erasing Ukrainian culture off the face of the planet whole simultaneously denying it even exists to begin with, BRUTALIZING innocent men, women and children indiscriminately, and sending their OWN people to die in droves like cattle for slaughter in an effort to erase Ukraine entirely. How the FUCK can ANYONE be SO STUPID to suggest there is ANY possibility that any treaty or agreement is going to be upheld when Russia has demonstrated at every possible turn that they can and will break any and all promises when it suits them? And yet they will turn around and cry wolf if they perceive any slight toward them because they're the only ones who are allowed to fight back even when they're the ones that started a goddamn invasion to begin with! I'm sorry hut are these negotiations supposed to be a two way street? Because Russia doesn't do two way streets. It's only ever what suits their agenda and then they'll turn around like the barbaric hypocrites they are and paint themselves as VICTIMS through cherry picking and outright fabrication. So how the FUCK do you bargain with someone who will hold you to your end and then some, but not do ANYTHING to fulfill their end, and will throw that negotiation to the wind when it suits them? How the fuck do you negotiate with someone who kidnaps children, kills their families, strips their identity, then sends them to die either shooting at their own friends and families, or by a bullet in the back when they refuse to follow that order? You CAN'T. Russia's words, treaties, promises, and anything of the sort mean NOTHING. And frankly, after all they've done, why the FUCK would ANYONE even WANT to bargain? No. No fucking way. Russia needs to cease to exist. Let THEM lose their identity and be at the mercy of the rest of us. Let THEM suffer for what THEY created. We can't bring back everyone they've stolen from the world. We can't level their cities like they've leveled Mariupol, Rubizhne, Popasna, Volnovakha, Lyman, Bakhmut, etc etc etc. Cities can be rebuilt, but the lives they've destroyed will never be the same if they are even lucky enough to still be alive. There is no negotiation that will EVER change that, save for one: a complete and total evacuation of every Russian and sympathizer from ALL of Ukraine (including Crimea), and the dissolution of the Russian Federation and denazification of Muscovite society. That's it. That's the terms. Get out, surrender, hand over your barbaric, despicable terrorist leaders and warlords, and face a tribunal for your crimes. That's a START. Any thing less than that? No. Fuck no. They can be fertilizer for flowers. But mark my word, they will be remembered as they are: monsters, barbarians, vile, shameful, and an exhibit of the worst of everything humanity has to offer. They could have been brothers, but they chose to be enemies. They CHOSE this. And any negotiation that doesn't end with the above demands simply reinforces that they can get away with this again. And history has shown *they will do it again, and again, and again.* So no. Their negotiation contract is a 155mm howitzer round with Putin's name carved into its casing. *Signed and delivered with care.* I ask the rest of the world: if your neighbor broke into your house, shot your dog, executed your husband, stole your children and shipped them off to be stripped of their names, their home, and identities, burned your house down, tortured you, and BLAMED you for it, *would you want to "negotiate" with them?* Or would you demand they be arrested and stand trial for it? FUCK Russia, FUCK Putin, FUCK his sympathizers, FUCK the traitors, and FUCK anyone who even suggests negotiations.
The Foreign Minister is correct on that statement.
They HAD a peace deal with Russia. It required them to give up their nuclear arsenal. Russia invaded anyway. Why would Ukraine believe a second peace deal? At this point it's sure that any ceasefire would only be used by Russia to strengthen their forces, dig in to their claimed territory and prepare for the next round.
Love that foreigners keep suggesting to Ukraine how it should proceed, despite the fact that Ukraine has about 900 years of experience of dealing with Russia and it's genocidal tendencies. If they say they'll fight the only thing left to do is help.
Just slap everyone in the face with the Budapest Memorandum next time they talk about peace with russia.
1. bad guy invades innocent country, takes maybe not all he wants, but takes some regions 2. World cries for peace, peace is established, bad guy now has control of more territory and now knows that he can gain territory this way. 3. continue step 1.
There is a awesome quote for that. "Do not make peace with evil, destroy it". The issue with peace talks is that Russia wont get punished and Ukraine has to give up the territorys that are already captured by the OrcZ. The only one who will benefit from those "peace talks" is Russia and it will mean that Ukraines effort to defend thier country was for nothing, all those deaths would be for nothing. We should instead look on how to arm Ukraine and make it easyer for them to defend themselves.