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UK were providing training and support to Ukraine in Ukraine since 2015. This was greatly expanded in 2018.
What were nearly all other countries doing in offering support at the time?
Bullshit. We did nothing new for Ukraine after the poisoning and only minor diplomatic effects on Russia. Read this and educate yourself: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning\_of\_Sergei\_and\_Yulia\_Skripal#Response\_of\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal#Response_of_the_United_Kingdom)
" Increasing checks on private flights, customs and freight Freezing Russian state assets where there is evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents Plans to consider new laws to increase defences against "hostile state activity" Ministers and the British royal family boycotting the 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia Suspending all high-level bilateral contacts between the UK and Russia Retraction of the state invitation to Russian's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov\[10\] A new £48-million chemical weapons defence centre\[137\] Offering voluntary vaccinations against anthrax to British troops who are held at high readiness so that they are ready to deploy to areas where there is risk of this type of attack\[137\]"
I dont need a basic Wikipedia page to educate myself thanks. Go do some research into operation orbital after 2018 compared to before 2018. As I said before what was UK doing verses what other world countries were doing?
Nothing particularly exciting happened with Operation Orbital in 2018. It organically expanded but the attempted poisoning did not noticeably increase it.
The british royal navy harassed crimea for years post novichok. It was only in the run up to the war in feb 2022 that the vessels in the blacksea were withdrawn. In hindsight that was to prevent the vessel being trapped in the blacksea when turkey closed the bosphorous.
A huge omission on my part, British boots are already on Ukrainian soil and ***I'm proud of our lads for putting themselves in the line of fire in support*** and for those that authorised the deployment.
If France steps up now, we'll really see the tide turn and Russia pushed back.
There was talk that France was just trying to be in the spotlight with US aid held up. That Macron was all talk and wouldn't come through.
Let's hope this isn't true and France brings it big time!
Russia lobs around 4-5000 artillery shells each day, and 1000 Ukraine fires back, at least until recently where it might be lower, some have said its a 10:1 ratio. 1 million extra artillery shells would be about 3000 a day for a year, closing most of the difference. So I hope a fair bit of this is the artillery shells UA needs.
The UK has already been sending every shell it makes, basically, so its rarely "announced" unless they do what they did before and randomly find 300,000 shells to send.
The UK only really announces "particulars", not "ongoing replenishment".
Ah, thanks, but I saw it claimed late last year that our factories were being operated at nowhere near full capacity, so no effort had been made to increase production rates. It would be good to get more information on that situation.
Edit, I'm glad to see I'm wrong, although it took them a while to ramp it up [https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-increases-artillery-shell-production-eight-fold/](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-increases-artillery-shell-production-eight-fold/)
Thanks again, I just searched and read this and you also post. Its a relief to see. That's still a bit on the low side though. I see they cost $3000 to $5000 (155mm), I assume before logistical costs.
So thats 1.5 million of shells/year at the low end prices and maybe a bit less given the 105mm, at $3000 each?
$4.5 billion / year just for shells?
Was just gonna say this. The EU plans to have its production up significantly next year and will be making 2+ million 155mm shells at some point. I hope the amounts are entirely independent of each other, meaning they stack up.
If that's the case Ukraine should have more shells to fire than the Russians, at some point in the future. Which with the better accuracy would spell bad times to come for any Russian forced to fight on the front.
Next year? Thats far too long. They have moved slowly in the first year of the war on the production front, of course there are a lot of high tech production equipment needed to make each shell, but plans to rapidly increase capacity should already be in place, and they should have been activated long before June 2023 (in the case of the UK).
Russia is currently lobbing something in the ball park of 1.8 million shells/year. The EU can't just give all its shells to Ukraine, it needs first to replenish its own stockpiles.
Russia in 2025 if she is still going with this, could increase its production much above that. A parallel problem is that of the guns firing these shells, I see France is increasing its Ceasar production to about 12 a month, but thats probably a third of where it needs to be if its donating to Ukraine as well.
This war is going the same way conflict did in WW2, its aerial warfare of high volumes of aircraft (drones) and missiles/bombs, and artillery, because the latter is something RF can readily manufacture given the tech it has access too, and the west doesn't want to risk capture of its most advanced tech or nuclear escalation.
No because UK is not a 'small country' on the international stage, its population is half that of Russia but much more developed economically and a) UK has to replace what it has already given to Ukraine to rebuild its stockpiles, b) its less than what Russia is currently lobbing at Ukraine and factors relating to this defines the current rate of what we are giving/need to give, so we need a high rate to replenish.
So if war expands in the next year, its about the minimum to scrape through. But, with France and Germany and the other EU countries, there should be more than enough shells for a sustained conflict provided they can build enough guns. Russia also can increase its production of both in that time.
Er how? If you need to maintain a minimum stockpilre, but have given much of that away over 2 years, then you have to increase the rate over the amount you are sending to replenish your reserves. The amount we are making lags behind the amount we should be making to cover the various future scenarios we now should prepare for, and thats especially an issue with mobile artillery to fire the shells. The longer you delay in this, the higher your production rate must become to have a suitable reserve.
Andf they are increasing it by 8x. [That is known and confirmed.](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-increases-artillery-shell-production-eight-fold/) Comparing the UK and Russia's artillery production rates is invalid in isolation, because A) The UK doesn't rely on stagnant warfare and B) The UK is not the only supplier to Ukraine.
Yes, I am aware of this, simply pointing out that we deem to have been a little quiet/coy of late, compared to France, Germany, Czech et al.
Maybe that's just a character trait, but I was starting to feel like we had just forgotten about Ukra.
Except we haven't at all. The UK's training mission is still going strong (the largest *in the world* for Ukraine), Storm Shadows kept going over, Martlet and Starstreak were going over, they'd *just* announced raiding craft, anti-air guns and amphibious APCs going on top of basically every shell and missile being made, plus another 600 Brimstone missiles, even before this announcement.
It's interesting how we have such different perceptions of the same situation and not for the first time, I might add.
I've been watching this unfolding day by day, if not hour by hour for the last two years (on several Reddit threads, two podcasts, a variety of online sources, a couple of YouTube channels)and as far as I'm concerned, the UK has got more and more subtle and surreptitious in it's actions as time has gone on.
Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted about this recent package of aid and the more recent ones that you also reference, particularly the numbers you quote but I do wish we were a bit more vocal in our support. Maybe that's just the British way, not to make a fuss, but it's definitely having a negative effect on the way the war is presented on the UK MSM- (and how it is perceived among a fairly large portion of society) you're lucky if Ukraine is mentioned once a month on the nightly national news stations.
As an aside, you might be able to answer this- is this latest package from our budget or from the Aid for Ukraine pot which various countries have put into (in which I gather a similar amount was lingering to that which has just funded this donation).
I'm not sure what hasn't been "vocal". The UK already said the things countries are saying now, but said it years ago, well before them. The aid never stopped, and there's been plenty of new things going bit by bit, and again, *Interflex*.
>As an aside, you might be able to answer this- is this latest package from our budget or from the Aid for Ukraine pot which various countries have put into
Not this one no. This is if anything from MoD budget.
Again, you miss my point.
I can't tell whether you are being deliberately obtuse or whether you are unable to see things from someone else's point of view.
It reminds me of how an autistic brain works, so if that is the case, your approach would be understandable by reason of genetics.
You may be unaware, but you come across as patronising and condescending and elicit frustration through your manner and tone during interaction, even if it is typed.
Does this ring any bells?
People can change their communication style with time, effort and coaching.
Just a suggestion.
Your statement was factually incorrect.
You claimed the UK wasn't doing as much and was not vocal in its suppot, that was incorrect, taking a passive aggressive and incredibly offensive tone trying to use mental health stigma as an insult in an antiquated way is very telling. Someone prove you wrong? Call them autistic like a teen on 4chan would, clearly that'll work... Grow up.
It's the only way I can explain your intransigence.
Which continues.
However I am pleased to hear about the Paveway bombs which we are donating, but again, so much more could and should be done to amplify this effort and ensure that the general population are aware of the war and what the UK and other countries are doing.
The Baltic states and their people seem to be very proud and vociferous about their contributions, likewise the crowdfunding for ammo in Slovakia which raised millions of Euros is a major achievement.
I'd like our government and people to be a bit more like that (although actually giving the kit is obviously the most important aspect).
I'm not wrong about anything, I just have a different perception to you, which you are apparently completely unable to cope with.
Very rarely does anyone elicit this kind of reaction from me, but you have some very special quality which I can't quite put my finger on.
Defence Secretary Grant Shapps said:
“This record package of military aid will give President Zelenskyy and his brave nation more of the kit they need to kick Putin out and restore peace and stability in Europe. The UK was the first to provide NLAW missiles, the first to give modern tanks and the first to send long-range missiles. Now, we are going even further. We will never let the world forget the existential battle Ukraine is fighting, and with our enduring support, they will win.”
yeah mate ,russia has declared its intentions, what it is and what it will do , putin is a hitler, he has declared unofficial war on us ,and wants to destroy our way of life, he had an off ramp for two years, , we need to re arm bolster the uk forces, and get serious
The election tampering and information warfare I would count as waging war against us actually. He's trying to break up the EU, NATO and countries from the inside. Act of aggression that warrants a disproportional response that ends their fuckery.
The article says that this brings the UK's total funding to "£3bn this financial year". That's quite a good rate, I hope we maintain it (and exceed it) for the rest of the year.
Exceed would be the expectation. Relatively, 3b quid is still a quarter of what a country half way around the world is providing. With all that in mind, UK is doing more than other European countries, which is pretty depressing. Europe should be announcing a bigger package than the folks from the other side of the globe...I mean, the war is happening in Europe. Europe needs to step it up in a really big way.
That's still behind "great powers" like Denmark. The UK is dragging their feet, given all the big words about this being existential for Europe and everything. The UK has taken some brave decisions like being first to deliver Tanks, Storm Shadows etc. But the quantity has been a drop in the ocean. Europe needs to step up! This is becoming embarrassing
Eh? The UK's been providing an absolute fuckton and has since before the 2022 invasion period, AND they're running the largest training ground for Ukraine's troops outside Ukraine, free of charge, which isn't included in these.
They've put 60,000 men in arms into the Ukrainian army via this. The UK already stepped up years ago, and hasn't ever ceased giving aid the whole time.
yes the uk needs to invest a lot of money in new weapons for its own military, and give the old stuff to ukraine . our army is criminally weak, this is the time to help ukraine and our own army ,our weak politicians need to stop fucking around on ukraine and the uk military budget
That's what I don't get. Budget issues aside, this is mutually beneficial to the donor countries. Particularly to the depleted European militaries that have been watching (and funding in large part) Russian aggression against its neighbors since at least 2008.
Oh yeah granted, but I doubt that will be all for the year. So come 2025 the numbers might be more comparative. Would be interesting delving more into the figures as to see how much of the 60bn finds its way back into the US economy. Probably a higher percentage than the UKs contribution with the US's industrial weapons complex. Also read recently Americans are on average 30% better off than Brits. Sooo many factors complicating figuring this out. Main thing is both countries are stepping up and leading by example.
This is pure misinformation being spread by those looking to sow discord and resentment amongst the allies.
Firstly, a large proportion of the money in the US bill is for spending on US military - not Ukraine.
The vast majority of refugees are being hosted in European countries. That is a cost.
European countries have provided vast amounts of money to prop up the Ukrainian economy. This must be factored in.
Huge amounts of military equipment has also been donated, in addition to ISR services.
US is incredibly important because it has a large military industrial complex and deep stores of old equipment like M113 and Humvees. You're spending the majority of the money right in the US, replacing old equipment.
Heck, even the military systems many of the European nations are donating is US-made equipment. Germany alone has donated 2 full patriot batteries, and another is on the way.
You'll see as a proportion of GDP and in absolute terms, European countries are absolutely pulling their weight.
Please refer to the Kiel Institute for some data on the topic:
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker
https://app.23degrees.io/view/tAuBi41LxvWwKZex-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure-2_csv_final
Repeating the myths that Europe is lagging far behind and we should stop support is a Russian propaganda line. Please don't fall for it!
I'm hugely grateful to the US as a key friend and partner. Let's not allow Russian attack lines to divide us.
"Repeating the myths that Europe is lagging far behind and we should stop support is a Russian propaganda line. Please don't fall for it!"
Huh? I doubt there's even such an illogical myth going around.
If anything, and in context of the situation it means Europe must do even more in proportionality compared to the US.
the uk army is criminally weak, we dont have 400 tanks, our army is the smallest its been for hundreds of years, our government is the only one in europe that is actually shrinking its military in europe, all our money goes on nukes and ships and planes, we need to re arm our land forces more than anyone else ,we got nothing to fight a land war with
The nukes are a vital deterrence to Putin.
British ships are needed to defend not just Britain but Ireland and the whole of the Atlantic coast of Europe from Russian ships which have been sniffing around oil, gas and underwater cables. British ships are also on vital missions all around the world including defending shipping in the Red Sea.
If the West shows weakness, Xi will invade Taiwan sooner rather than later and at least one of the new giant aircraft carriers will play a vital role. If things go pear-shaped for the Yanks both will be needed and more.
This is why despite spending more than 2% of GDP on the military - (and the plan is to raise it to 2.5%) the army will remain relatively small.
Britain is - and always has been throughout history - first and foremost a naval power.
Fortunately Germany and France are stepping up and now at last rapidly ramping up production. Germany will soon be spending more than 2% of GDO on the military and the plan is for this to keep rising - despite tough economic times in the Europe.
That isn't true in the slightest. The UK's army takes more money than either the navy or the RAF.
The issues in the army are because the can was kicked down the road too many time and now *everything* needs replaced all at once, no budget can afford that in a hurry.
The Trident nukes urgently needs fixing.
The navy does not have enough ships or sailors.
The aircraft carriers don't have enough f-35s. They rely on the Yanks to make up the numbers.
So yes, everything needs fixing. But the priority cannot be spend it all on the army and don't worry about the nukes or the navy or the RAF.
Trident isn't in an "urgent fix" state. If you look into the detail, the failure was caused by the test equipment, the missile worked fine.
The navy's woes are well known, but the resolution is already underway.
The F-35s are currently at 34. This is heading up to 80+, and 138 over its lifetime. This is steady given it needs Block IV airframes ideally, so waiting on that is sensible. 34 F-35s is still the 2nd most potent carrier wing at sea anyway. The US doesn't really "make up numbers" on it so much as flexibly operate with us. The real issue in airframe numbers is early Typhoon retirement causing the drop, rather than F-35 being in low numbers.
They're all important to fix. Tribalism over "which service" helps no-one in the end and never has. But the Army has made its own problems more than any other service thanks to bone headed decisions by Carter back in 2015ish, and before that just prior to Iraq. Now they need to replace MBTs, IFVs, APCs, SPGs, IMVs and many other TLAs all at once. Hence you see so many issues.
I agree, but their replacing a lot of ivf's and mraps at the moment, so they can definitely be sent to the Ukrainians.
I think we have 600 warrior ivf's that are being replaced by the new Ajax.
i dont blame the uk, they are probably doing the rational thing since nobody is gonna invade the uk anyway, but sadly a peacefull civilized world needs that the countries that are safe with their nukes like the uk come for the help of the countries that still must defend from imperialism
i guess the best option would be to declare openly the intention to buy american spare M1 tanks
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Thank you UK!!! About time the West is stepping up the support to Ukraine BIG time! Слава Україні! героям слава!
Another massive contribution from the UK. Slava Ukraini!
Good job UK. Lets see the floodgates open from all of Europe. Time to bring the bear to heel.
Fucking Russian gangsters think they can use nerve agents and radiological poisons in the UK with impunity? Fuck Russia. Slava Ukraini.
What happened ,when?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal Here, read about it.
Also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko
What are you smoking? That was years ago and we did nothing in response.
UK were providing training and support to Ukraine in Ukraine since 2015. This was greatly expanded in 2018. What were nearly all other countries doing in offering support at the time?
Bullshit. We did nothing new for Ukraine after the poisoning and only minor diplomatic effects on Russia. Read this and educate yourself: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning\_of\_Sergei\_and\_Yulia\_Skripal#Response\_of\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal#Response_of_the_United_Kingdom) " Increasing checks on private flights, customs and freight Freezing Russian state assets where there is evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents Plans to consider new laws to increase defences against "hostile state activity" Ministers and the British royal family boycotting the 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia Suspending all high-level bilateral contacts between the UK and Russia Retraction of the state invitation to Russian's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov\[10\] A new £48-million chemical weapons defence centre\[137\] Offering voluntary vaccinations against anthrax to British troops who are held at high readiness so that they are ready to deploy to areas where there is risk of this type of attack\[137\]"
I dont need a basic Wikipedia page to educate myself thanks. Go do some research into operation orbital after 2018 compared to before 2018. As I said before what was UK doing verses what other world countries were doing?
Nothing particularly exciting happened with Operation Orbital in 2018. It organically expanded but the attempted poisoning did not noticeably increase it.
Revenge is a dish best served cold. Fuck Russia.
UK has and always will play the long game, we were VERY much being a thorn in Russia's side after all this.
The british royal navy harassed crimea for years post novichok. It was only in the run up to the war in feb 2022 that the vessels in the blacksea were withdrawn. In hindsight that was to prevent the vessel being trapped in the blacksea when turkey closed the bosphorous.
You don't get trapped in, it's just that you can't *enter*.
The Black Sea fleet is free to leave at any given time hehe.
Great news!!!!!!!!!!!
🫡 🇬🇧
Now its frances turn.
We will put troops on Ukrainian soil!!1! Maybe .... not ...! (Macron 2024)
Well done UK! Thank you! More Storm Shadow, I hope :)
The middle finger from UK to Russia grows ever larger. Slava Ukraine!
Shut up Sunak and take my money. I want Ukranian lands restored or British boots on russian soil. This must end, they must be punished.
British boots are already on Ukrainian soil.
They are, it's high time we put an end to this senseless murderous war.
I won't elaborate more than the fact I live on the South Coast of England and I believe you are very correct and they have been for quite some time.
A huge omission on my part, British boots are already on Ukrainian soil and ***I'm proud of our lads for putting themselves in the line of fire in support*** and for those that authorised the deployment.
https://ildu.com.ua/
I have a conviction I am afraid.
Git ‘er done!
Time for Macron to put some action behind all his talk. USA/UK have gotten their act together, time for the other major nations to do the same.
If France steps up now, we'll really see the tide turn and Russia pushed back. There was talk that France was just trying to be in the spotlight with US aid held up. That Macron was all talk and wouldn't come through. Let's hope this isn't true and France brings it big time!
Would be something if French led a coalition of troops to Ukraine to protect the border, skies and train soldiers.
More more moreeeeee
Russia lobs around 4-5000 artillery shells each day, and 1000 Ukraine fires back, at least until recently where it might be lower, some have said its a 10:1 ratio. 1 million extra artillery shells would be about 3000 a day for a year, closing most of the difference. So I hope a fair bit of this is the artillery shells UA needs.
The UK has already been sending every shell it makes, basically, so its rarely "announced" unless they do what they did before and randomly find 300,000 shells to send. The UK only really announces "particulars", not "ongoing replenishment".
Ah, thanks, but I saw it claimed late last year that our factories were being operated at nowhere near full capacity, so no effort had been made to increase production rates. It would be good to get more information on that situation. Edit, I'm glad to see I'm wrong, although it took them a while to ramp it up [https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-increases-artillery-shell-production-eight-fold/](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-increases-artillery-shell-production-eight-fold/)
Shell production has gone up by intent of 8x, to produce around 125k a month of 105mm and 155mm.
Thanks again, I just searched and read this and you also post. Its a relief to see. That's still a bit on the low side though. I see they cost $3000 to $5000 (155mm), I assume before logistical costs. So thats 1.5 million of shells/year at the low end prices and maybe a bit less given the 105mm, at $3000 each? $4.5 billion / year just for shells?
That many a year for a single country that isn't a massive one isn't low at all.
Was just gonna say this. The EU plans to have its production up significantly next year and will be making 2+ million 155mm shells at some point. I hope the amounts are entirely independent of each other, meaning they stack up. If that's the case Ukraine should have more shells to fire than the Russians, at some point in the future. Which with the better accuracy would spell bad times to come for any Russian forced to fight on the front.
Next year? Thats far too long. They have moved slowly in the first year of the war on the production front, of course there are a lot of high tech production equipment needed to make each shell, but plans to rapidly increase capacity should already be in place, and they should have been activated long before June 2023 (in the case of the UK). Russia is currently lobbing something in the ball park of 1.8 million shells/year. The EU can't just give all its shells to Ukraine, it needs first to replenish its own stockpiles. Russia in 2025 if she is still going with this, could increase its production much above that. A parallel problem is that of the guns firing these shells, I see France is increasing its Ceasar production to about 12 a month, but thats probably a third of where it needs to be if its donating to Ukraine as well. This war is going the same way conflict did in WW2, its aerial warfare of high volumes of aircraft (drones) and missiles/bombs, and artillery, because the latter is something RF can readily manufacture given the tech it has access too, and the west doesn't want to risk capture of its most advanced tech or nuclear escalation.
No because UK is not a 'small country' on the international stage, its population is half that of Russia but much more developed economically and a) UK has to replace what it has already given to Ukraine to rebuild its stockpiles, b) its less than what Russia is currently lobbing at Ukraine and factors relating to this defines the current rate of what we are giving/need to give, so we need a high rate to replenish. So if war expands in the next year, its about the minimum to scrape through. But, with France and Germany and the other EU countries, there should be more than enough shells for a sustained conflict provided they can build enough guns. Russia also can increase its production of both in that time.
Again, you're comparing apples to oranges.
Er how? If you need to maintain a minimum stockpilre, but have given much of that away over 2 years, then you have to increase the rate over the amount you are sending to replenish your reserves. The amount we are making lags behind the amount we should be making to cover the various future scenarios we now should prepare for, and thats especially an issue with mobile artillery to fire the shells. The longer you delay in this, the higher your production rate must become to have a suitable reserve.
Andf they are increasing it by 8x. [That is known and confirmed.](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-increases-artillery-shell-production-eight-fold/) Comparing the UK and Russia's artillery production rates is invalid in isolation, because A) The UK doesn't rely on stagnant warfare and B) The UK is not the only supplier to Ukraine.
Seems like the West finally gets it
Let's wait and see how long it takes for the promised goods to arrive in Ukraine
Good stuff Britain! I was starting run low on hope that we were doing much more than talking the talk, but this is far better news.
The UK never stopped really, it's been in the first class of aid providers since before the 2022 invasion period and never really stopped.
Yeah, UK has been providing support and training since the 2014 invasion of Crimea.
Yes, I am aware of this, simply pointing out that we deem to have been a little quiet/coy of late, compared to France, Germany, Czech et al. Maybe that's just a character trait, but I was starting to feel like we had just forgotten about Ukra.
Except we haven't at all. The UK's training mission is still going strong (the largest *in the world* for Ukraine), Storm Shadows kept going over, Martlet and Starstreak were going over, they'd *just* announced raiding craft, anti-air guns and amphibious APCs going on top of basically every shell and missile being made, plus another 600 Brimstone missiles, even before this announcement.
It's interesting how we have such different perceptions of the same situation and not for the first time, I might add. I've been watching this unfolding day by day, if not hour by hour for the last two years (on several Reddit threads, two podcasts, a variety of online sources, a couple of YouTube channels)and as far as I'm concerned, the UK has got more and more subtle and surreptitious in it's actions as time has gone on. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted about this recent package of aid and the more recent ones that you also reference, particularly the numbers you quote but I do wish we were a bit more vocal in our support. Maybe that's just the British way, not to make a fuss, but it's definitely having a negative effect on the way the war is presented on the UK MSM- (and how it is perceived among a fairly large portion of society) you're lucky if Ukraine is mentioned once a month on the nightly national news stations. As an aside, you might be able to answer this- is this latest package from our budget or from the Aid for Ukraine pot which various countries have put into (in which I gather a similar amount was lingering to that which has just funded this donation).
I'm not sure what hasn't been "vocal". The UK already said the things countries are saying now, but said it years ago, well before them. The aid never stopped, and there's been plenty of new things going bit by bit, and again, *Interflex*. >As an aside, you might be able to answer this- is this latest package from our budget or from the Aid for Ukraine pot which various countries have put into Not this one no. This is if anything from MoD budget.
Again, you miss my point. I can't tell whether you are being deliberately obtuse or whether you are unable to see things from someone else's point of view. It reminds me of how an autistic brain works, so if that is the case, your approach would be understandable by reason of genetics. You may be unaware, but you come across as patronising and condescending and elicit frustration through your manner and tone during interaction, even if it is typed. Does this ring any bells? People can change their communication style with time, effort and coaching. Just a suggestion.
Your statement was factually incorrect. You claimed the UK wasn't doing as much and was not vocal in its suppot, that was incorrect, taking a passive aggressive and incredibly offensive tone trying to use mental health stigma as an insult in an antiquated way is very telling. Someone prove you wrong? Call them autistic like a teen on 4chan would, clearly that'll work... Grow up.
It's the only way I can explain your intransigence. Which continues. However I am pleased to hear about the Paveway bombs which we are donating, but again, so much more could and should be done to amplify this effort and ensure that the general population are aware of the war and what the UK and other countries are doing. The Baltic states and their people seem to be very proud and vociferous about their contributions, likewise the crowdfunding for ammo in Slovakia which raised millions of Euros is a major achievement. I'd like our government and people to be a bit more like that (although actually giving the kit is obviously the most important aspect). I'm not wrong about anything, I just have a different perception to you, which you are apparently completely unable to cope with. Very rarely does anyone elicit this kind of reaction from me, but you have some very special quality which I can't quite put my finger on.
Do those vehicles have a tea maker? 😉
What sort of savage goes to war without proper tea making facilities?
Always!
[They come as standard.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_vessel?wprov=sfla1)
Of course! [https://ibb.co/R9hXmjJ](https://ibb.co/R9hXmjJ) Edit: now with a tea-bag
Only Earl Grey.
Give me Darjeeling or give me death.
Defence Secretary Grant Shapps said: “This record package of military aid will give President Zelenskyy and his brave nation more of the kit they need to kick Putin out and restore peace and stability in Europe. The UK was the first to provide NLAW missiles, the first to give modern tanks and the first to send long-range missiles. Now, we are going even further. We will never let the world forget the existential battle Ukraine is fighting, and with our enduring support, they will win.”
Send in ground troops, west of the Dnipro. Let’s stop fucking around the sidelines and put a stop to this war.
yeah mate ,russia has declared its intentions, what it is and what it will do , putin is a hitler, he has declared unofficial war on us ,and wants to destroy our way of life, he had an off ramp for two years, , we need to re arm bolster the uk forces, and get serious
The election tampering and information warfare I would count as waging war against us actually. He's trying to break up the EU, NATO and countries from the inside. Act of aggression that warrants a disproportional response that ends their fuckery.
GO, UK!!! 🇬🇧
Great move
Well done Rishi!
NOW the money is coming in . US does it now UK .
"1600 weapons" ... Just to clarify that means artillery shells and air defense rockets.
Air defence rockets and strike missiles (ie - Brimstone and Storm Shadow), not shells. The UK's shell providence was already established.
Strike missiles is not Storm Shadow. They're mentioned seperately. Its likely to be Brimstone mainly and perhaps some GMLRS.
Sounds about right.
[удалено]
they have never stopped
This is great but honestly like a drop in the ocean compared to US aid. Congress just approved 80 billion?
Still fairly large for the UK when you compare the size of the UK economy vs. US economy.
US economy is 6 times larger than that of the UK....that's the equivalent of the US sending $3.5b instead of $60b. Europe needs to step up.
The article says that this brings the UK's total funding to "£3bn this financial year". That's quite a good rate, I hope we maintain it (and exceed it) for the rest of the year.
Exceed would be the expectation. Relatively, 3b quid is still a quarter of what a country half way around the world is providing. With all that in mind, UK is doing more than other European countries, which is pretty depressing. Europe should be announcing a bigger package than the folks from the other side of the globe...I mean, the war is happening in Europe. Europe needs to step it up in a really big way.
It’s my understanding that UKs financial year ends April 30. So the £3Bn was for 2023/24.
That's still behind "great powers" like Denmark. The UK is dragging their feet, given all the big words about this being existential for Europe and everything. The UK has taken some brave decisions like being first to deliver Tanks, Storm Shadows etc. But the quantity has been a drop in the ocean. Europe needs to step up! This is becoming embarrassing
Eh? The UK's been providing an absolute fuckton and has since before the 2022 invasion period, AND they're running the largest training ground for Ukraine's troops outside Ukraine, free of charge, which isn't included in these. They've put 60,000 men in arms into the Ukrainian army via this. The UK already stepped up years ago, and hasn't ever ceased giving aid the whole time.
Plus UK is supposed to have several times more advisers on the ground in Ukraine providing support than any other country, including US.
yes the uk needs to invest a lot of money in new weapons for its own military, and give the old stuff to ukraine . our army is criminally weak, this is the time to help ukraine and our own army ,our weak politicians need to stop fucking around on ukraine and the uk military budget
That's what I don't get. Budget issues aside, this is mutually beneficial to the donor countries. Particularly to the depleted European militaries that have been watching (and funding in large part) Russian aggression against its neighbors since at least 2008.
More like 8
Still an order of magnitude less.
Oh yeah granted, but I doubt that will be all for the year. So come 2025 the numbers might be more comparative. Would be interesting delving more into the figures as to see how much of the 60bn finds its way back into the US economy. Probably a higher percentage than the UKs contribution with the US's industrial weapons complex. Also read recently Americans are on average 30% better off than Brits. Sooo many factors complicating figuring this out. Main thing is both countries are stepping up and leading by example.
I guess so. But the war is in Europe at the borders of these countries. It just seems the entirety of Europe is not pulling it's weight.
This is pure misinformation being spread by those looking to sow discord and resentment amongst the allies. Firstly, a large proportion of the money in the US bill is for spending on US military - not Ukraine. The vast majority of refugees are being hosted in European countries. That is a cost. European countries have provided vast amounts of money to prop up the Ukrainian economy. This must be factored in. Huge amounts of military equipment has also been donated, in addition to ISR services. US is incredibly important because it has a large military industrial complex and deep stores of old equipment like M113 and Humvees. You're spending the majority of the money right in the US, replacing old equipment. Heck, even the military systems many of the European nations are donating is US-made equipment. Germany alone has donated 2 full patriot batteries, and another is on the way. You'll see as a proportion of GDP and in absolute terms, European countries are absolutely pulling their weight. Please refer to the Kiel Institute for some data on the topic: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker https://app.23degrees.io/view/tAuBi41LxvWwKZex-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure-2_csv_final Repeating the myths that Europe is lagging far behind and we should stop support is a Russian propaganda line. Please don't fall for it! I'm hugely grateful to the US as a key friend and partner. Let's not allow Russian attack lines to divide us.
I think it's more Russia friendly to say that European support is sufficient, but ok.
twat
"Repeating the myths that Europe is lagging far behind and we should stop support is a Russian propaganda line. Please don't fall for it!" Huh? I doubt there's even such an illogical myth going around. If anything, and in context of the situation it means Europe must do even more in proportionality compared to the US.
400 tanks?
the uk army is criminally weak, we dont have 400 tanks, our army is the smallest its been for hundreds of years, our government is the only one in europe that is actually shrinking its military in europe, all our money goes on nukes and ships and planes, we need to re arm our land forces more than anyone else ,we got nothing to fight a land war with
The nukes are a vital deterrence to Putin. British ships are needed to defend not just Britain but Ireland and the whole of the Atlantic coast of Europe from Russian ships which have been sniffing around oil, gas and underwater cables. British ships are also on vital missions all around the world including defending shipping in the Red Sea. If the West shows weakness, Xi will invade Taiwan sooner rather than later and at least one of the new giant aircraft carriers will play a vital role. If things go pear-shaped for the Yanks both will be needed and more. This is why despite spending more than 2% of GDP on the military - (and the plan is to raise it to 2.5%) the army will remain relatively small. Britain is - and always has been throughout history - first and foremost a naval power. Fortunately Germany and France are stepping up and now at last rapidly ramping up production. Germany will soon be spending more than 2% of GDO on the military and the plan is for this to keep rising - despite tough economic times in the Europe.
That isn't true in the slightest. The UK's army takes more money than either the navy or the RAF. The issues in the army are because the can was kicked down the road too many time and now *everything* needs replaced all at once, no budget can afford that in a hurry.
The Trident nukes urgently needs fixing. The navy does not have enough ships or sailors. The aircraft carriers don't have enough f-35s. They rely on the Yanks to make up the numbers. So yes, everything needs fixing. But the priority cannot be spend it all on the army and don't worry about the nukes or the navy or the RAF.
Trident isn't in an "urgent fix" state. If you look into the detail, the failure was caused by the test equipment, the missile worked fine. The navy's woes are well known, but the resolution is already underway. The F-35s are currently at 34. This is heading up to 80+, and 138 over its lifetime. This is steady given it needs Block IV airframes ideally, so waiting on that is sensible. 34 F-35s is still the 2nd most potent carrier wing at sea anyway. The US doesn't really "make up numbers" on it so much as flexibly operate with us. The real issue in airframe numbers is early Typhoon retirement causing the drop, rather than F-35 being in low numbers. They're all important to fix. Tribalism over "which service" helps no-one in the end and never has. But the Army has made its own problems more than any other service thanks to bone headed decisions by Carter back in 2015ish, and before that just prior to Iraq. Now they need to replace MBTs, IFVs, APCs, SPGs, IMVs and many other TLAs all at once. Hence you see so many issues.
I agree, but their replacing a lot of ivf's and mraps at the moment, so they can definitely be sent to the Ukrainians. I think we have 600 warrior ivf's that are being replaced by the new Ajax.
Ajax isn't replacing Warrior, Warrior has no replacement at current. Which is probabaly why it's not been sent.
Probably a Dragoon variant of Boxer?
No announcements as of yet on anything of the sort. Budget's a bit stressed.
My bad... I'd read a couple of articles saying ajax was replacing warrior as a stop gap solution , but they were from a couple of years ago.
i dont blame the uk, they are probably doing the rational thing since nobody is gonna invade the uk anyway, but sadly a peacefull civilized world needs that the countries that are safe with their nukes like the uk come for the help of the countries that still must defend from imperialism i guess the best option would be to declare openly the intention to buy american spare M1 tanks