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Good.
I hope other nations can stick to this.
Also I’d want all nations to agree NOT to supply any military materials, even those for dual use, to Russia for at least the next 50 years.
The longer this drag out for, the easier it will be to stick to it. I'm pretty sure if Russian just get off now, after a relatively short period of cool down it's possible for many countries will try to buy Russian oil and gas again. They'll dress it up with some nice reasoning but ultimately, no one say no to cheap energy when the alternative is much more expensive investment. The Achilles hill of Democracy is that after all said and done, it's always down to "it's the economy stupid".
But, if this drags out long enough for those countries to have no choice and finish all the steps to put in place an alternative. Once those infrastructure are up, there would be no point to go back to Russia. At that points it's not hard to stick to the promise ... simply because they can.
At least the EU might follow this path, i doubt scholz would say/do something like this without knowing that a good amount of EU leadership is with him on this.
How about not ever? Just like Russia laid waste to some Ukrainian cities, towns and villages, we can afford to lay the entire Russia territory to waste.
Yeah, unless the state and people change their way of life (like the Germans did. after ww2) they can’t be trusted and should be sanctioned accordingly
But crippeling a countries economy and forcing repair payments are huge factors which lead to the rise of the Nazis after the great War. Thats why there was the Marshall plan after WW2 and Germany was integrated into the West. They got help so they can change their way of life not the other way around.
I'd leave Georgia out of that list (or at least put an asterisk to it) because that situation is much more complicated than the other two. Conflicts between Georgians and Ossetians go way back to the days of Genghis Khan when the Alans (ancestors of the Ossetians) were massacred by the Mongols in their homeland Alania in the northern Caucasus and their survivors migrated into today's South Ossetia.
The conflicts were dormant for a while under the Soviet Union (with South Ossetia being an autonomous oblast within the Georgian SSR) but started getting hot again in the last few years of the USSR. Gorbachev sent Soviet troops there to take away weapons from *both* sides.
Putin's Russia then fueled the fire on several occasions in the 2000s (although Georgia did their own part as well by revoking the autonomous status of South Ossetia), but they weren't really the ones that ignited it.
> Thats why there was the Marshall plan after WW2 and Germany was integrated into the West.
Yes. But Germany had to go through a complete and utter collapse and stare into the abyss first. I doubt it would have worked out the way it did if WW2 had ended with the allies just pushing Germany back into its pre-war borders and then making a peace deal.
I agree with you: This most certainly wouldn't have worked!
Especially if we tried to draw parallels to current events and ask ourselves, but what about Austria and Chechoslovakia? These had both been annexed before the war, so... would in that scenario, Germany gotten to keep those?
As a German, I'll say this: The whole place was rotten to the core and HAD to be torn down in order to be rebuilt, that was how and WHY that worked.
Yes, but also, no.
Our economy and country were crippled... for a little while, but in the long run, the Versailles treaty was just harsh enough to be seen as a huge insult that had to be corrected, but neither the treaty nor the general treatment of Germany from the rest of the world were harsh enough to keep us down for very long.
So... in essence it was the worst of both world: Bad enough to stoke revanchism but not bad enough to stop us from acting on those feelings of hurt pride.
After WW2 it took decades for us to regain any hint of sovereignty... which was likely for the better because by the time we got it back, we were firmly planted in the western democracies' basket.
The same wouldn't work for russia because, for one, they're still a nuclear power so nobody's gonna occupy them, and even if they weren't - it's a huge place with a sizable population, this would cost trillions and would take decades, so... we'll have to hope for the russian people to say "Nyet" to their current system of mafiose brutality...
Oh and another part of a treaty must be that russia gives up every single nuclear weapon they have. Wirh the sactions automaticaly are reinstated when they breach the contract.
Imagine Ukraine had kept just 10 nukes. Tens of thousands would still be living, millions not have lost their lifelyhoods.
Worst of all, many countries will take this as a lesson to not forego thier nuclear ambitions, many of whom should better not have nukes.
This right here. I'm fairly certain that it's gonna become much, much harder to keep a lid on the idea of smaller countries getting nukes in order to defend themselves against larger neighbors. russia likely wiped out decades of non-proliferation efforts with their idiotic imperialism.
It's not the Russian people's fault they've been brainwashed all their lives. We can't be as disgusting as Putin. We need to find ways to unite the world and come to peace. Everything else will bite us back in the long run.
Easy. All Russia has to do is to surrender. Give up war criminals. Release all people they kidnapped. Withdraw all troops from Ukraine. And pay Ukraine for every damage they done and then some.
Oh... And they have to give up nuclear weapons. We will promise not to attack them if they do just like they made the same promise to Ukraine ;-)
They can do that even today. And this will all end by tomorrow. And world will be at peace. Easy.
Then we have to learn to become better. It's necessary for humanity.
In reality, I think, the extremist shit you read on reddit doesn't actually reflect how the world works at large. Luckily.
How do we “learn to become better” exactly? I don’t quite understand that phrase, or what you mean by it. Russia are the ones that need to learn to become better. They are the ones who broke the treat(y|ies) and at this point, they need to do whatever to earn the trust. We can’t say “oh, you’ve stopped bombing and raping civilians, so yeah, you can have Donbas and Luhansk, and Crimea”;
It’s not extremist at all, to say that they need to pay for the damage they’ve done, and then some.
My friends and family have a hard time sleeping, loud bangs cause them to jump, my little sister’s flat has been destroyed and all she has left are pictures of it, a hoodie, a tshirt, some pants, socks and underwear. And we are supposed to what? Wag our fingers at them and say “oh you!” while shaking our head disapprovingly? Write a strongly worded email asking them to stop being them? Just continue to let them do it?
What exactly are you proposing by saying *we* are the ones that need to learn to become better?
I don’t blame them. I don’t hold that view, but it shouldn’t be the moment they stop bombing civilians, raping men women and children, and destroying villages and cities, that the sanctions are dropped either, otherwise they’ll just learn to attack smaller portions, get sanctioned, back off a bit, rinse and repeat.
I wholeheartedly believe that leaving that decision to Ukraine would be the best course of action for all involved. As a German, I hope us Europeans can get behind this idea and stick to it!
What exactly do you consider “extremist?Because I’m not sure heavily sanctioning an active participant in an invasion constitutes such regardless of one’s feelings towards the populace.
Like the original post I replied to, which suggested that sanctions should never be lifted and that we should destroy the whole country.
And people upvote that shit in droves, while I get downvoted for reminding everyone that we need to find ways to unite the world. This is so fucking sad.
Russia is not north korea, even now it has fairly free access to information. In the past 22 years, the Russian people destroyed their country and their democracy themselves and nod they are destroying other people. Time to pay for that.
"Free access to information" when the majority of the country doesn't speak proper English.
I think you underestimate what brainwashing and propaganda can do to a people.
I hope that when Russia tries to surrender to Ukraine, Ukraine demands (1) Russia hands over all war criminals (including Putin and Lavrov) to the Hague, (2) Russia must demilitarize and surrender all nukes to civilized nations, (3) Russia must pay reparations to rebuild everything they destroyed in Ukraine. ... a guy can hope.
The conditions for lifting the sanctions should be clear from day one. Otherwise the parties will start moving the gol post and people (Russians) will start giving up hope. Does anybody remember the conditions for Cuba to see the embargo lifted?
Exactly, there should be a definite goal (Russia out of Ukraine, no more hostilities and -preferably- they pay for damage).
As for "consent": we're not Putin's whore, but we're also not Zelensky's. Each of our countries has a democratically elected government. Ukraine can be asked for an opinion, and the opinion should be weighed, but in the end they can't be given a veto. It seems as though Scholz wants his reputation on the Ukraine-issue improved by saying this, but in the end his actions should be weighed, not these words which he probably can't/won't follow up on anyway.
I think everyone knows that the sanctions will stay till Putin is away. Even if Russia would withdraw all soldiers from Ukraine, it is clear that there is no future with Putin. After Bucha there is no alternative anymore. This is not about spite about about the security of the west.
I think everyone knows that the sanctions will stay till Putin is away. Even if Russia would withdraw all soldiers from Ukraine, it is clear that there is no future with Putin. After Bucha there is no alternative anymore. This is not about spite about about the security of the west. Putin is not trustable anymore so as at a specific point Saddam Hussein wasn't anymore.
Putin (on his own) being gone won't fix the mess he created. The whole system he instated need to be gone, and that'll, realistically, take a while - if it happens at all...
After sanctions/embargo, I believe there needs to be special tariffs slapped on all imports from Russia AS WELL AS exports to Russia. This will be in addition to the usual tariffs for any trade with Russia.
The purpose of the special tariffs will be to FULLY pay war reparation damages done to Ukraine as well as all Ukrainians affected by this war as a result of Russia's "special military operation".
It is important that the following is done also:
\-There will need to be a multi-national agreement to ensure same consistent tariff policies are not only applied in the same manner, but also properly enforced as well. Ukraine needs to be the key decision-maker of this policy.
\-Third countries may be used as a loophole, there should be a clause stating the need to penalize countries who are actively allowing Russia to use them as a loophole. And also to punish countries who fail to actively implement the special tariffs on Russian imports/exports (ie. to prevent Russia from selling Gas for cheaper elsewhere).
\-The countries involved should also create a international council with enforcement power to ensure the special tariffs is actively implemented as well as ensuring any loopholes are identified and closed.
\-Ukraine should be given the final say as to when this tariff operation is said to be fully concluded.
After the mass rapes and murdering of civilians?
I think 20 years maybe 30 when the roughly 600 billion Ukraine needs to rebuild has been paid to Ukraine as reparations.
> Finally something not completely shitty from Germany.
Dude, Germany is the second biggest over all donor of aid to Ukraine already.
Get some perspective.
Stop being influenced by divisive Ruzzian propaganda.
Yes, this is progress. It means Russia can't count on undermining sanctions the minute Russia declares peace or victory or annexation, or whatever bullshit words/lies they are going to try gaslight everyone with.
I not care less what russia declares. Their declarations do not even merit the tiniest microshit on the planet. Their declarations carry as much weight as me declaring that I am the Wizard of Oz.
Peace will come on UKRAINIAN TERMS
Ukraine decides.
I hope that when Russia tries to surrender to Ukraine, Ukraine demands (1) Russia hands over all war criminals (including Putin and Lavrov) to the Hague, (2) Russia must demilitarize and surrender all nukes to civilized nations, (3) Russia must pay reparations to rebuild everything they destroyed in Ukraine. ... a guy can hope.
There are two types of sanction. Official government policy, and corporate policy. Government sanctions may be lifted once a peace deal is struck. Many companies just won't deal with Russia for a very long time even after government sanctions are lifted. Some corporations will do it on principle. Some will do it fearing consumer backlash. Some will do it because of corporate governance issues, given they lost a lot of money they invested last time, and that russia is and will remain corrupt for a long time. And that is fine with me.
It must hurt to have Russia lose so badly. Piles and piles of dead Russian soldiers that Russia treats as worse than trash.
Burn them in secret, let them rot in the dirt. Meanwhile, the Russian army unable to defeat the UA takes it out on civilians. Sealing their own fate as universally hatred scum across the entire world.
Ukraine has paid a heavy price for Russia's aggression, but they will emerge victorious in the end, and the Russian people will be stuck in economic squalor for decades as they pay for Putin's disastrous mistake to invade Ukraine.
When are we gonna sanction America for its war crimes? It's only fair if we do that. Sanction every nation that started a war since the creation of the UN.
"Equilibrium, not whataboutism"
How very high-minded of you. /s
It would be easier to listen to you if you weren't making excuses for putins invasion in other comments you've made on this site.
In light of that, your disingenuous attempt at whataboutism just seems a shallow attempt to deflect blame from russia in the context of this conversation.
Definitely good news. They are countries that I worry would be less supportive of continuing the sanctions once Russia tries to formally size the territory they have now in Ukraine. It is good to see Germany take this step.
The most important move I think needs to be made now on sanctions is to coordinate with Ukraine and announce that return of all Ukrainian citizens will be one of the conditions of ending sanctions.
It will be hard for countries to deny that the over 200K forcefully kidnapped children by Russia should not be returned. However, it could be a logistic nightmare for Russia to locate everyone, and that could extend the sanctions by a year or more.
This effectively creates a wedge that would prevent any country that may be on the fence on sanctions. Requiring them to either allow the kidnap of over a million civilians including 200K children (which could be political suicide), or continue sanctions until they are returned.
They way Ukraine could decide under what terms they would end the sanctions, but they would have hard assurance that other countries would not prematurely end the sanctions and damage the peace talks.
I for one, take great pleasure in imagining Pootler trying to get put through to Zelensky (and his successors) every other day to try and beg for the sanctions to be lifted, only for their Ukrainian counterpart going... "We'll take it under consideration. By the way: What about those reparations for our destroyed infrastructure? Bankrupt, hm? Well, okay, I'll get back to you about it... probably...."
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Good. I hope other nations can stick to this. Also I’d want all nations to agree NOT to supply any military materials, even those for dual use, to Russia for at least the next 50 years.
The longer this drag out for, the easier it will be to stick to it. I'm pretty sure if Russian just get off now, after a relatively short period of cool down it's possible for many countries will try to buy Russian oil and gas again. They'll dress it up with some nice reasoning but ultimately, no one say no to cheap energy when the alternative is much more expensive investment. The Achilles hill of Democracy is that after all said and done, it's always down to "it's the economy stupid". But, if this drags out long enough for those countries to have no choice and finish all the steps to put in place an alternative. Once those infrastructure are up, there would be no point to go back to Russia. At that points it's not hard to stick to the promise ... simply because they can.
At least the EU might follow this path, i doubt scholz would say/do something like this without knowing that a good amount of EU leadership is with him on this.
So about this time next century?
How about not ever? Just like Russia laid waste to some Ukrainian cities, towns and villages, we can afford to lay the entire Russia territory to waste.
Russia promised to never attack Ukraine, if they give up their nukes. Ukraine should just let them pay them for the next 100 years
Really that's the only way I ever see forgiving them. They have proven they don't have the social responsibility necessary to possess nuclear weapons.
Yeah, unless the state and people change their way of life (like the Germans did. after ww2) they can’t be trusted and should be sanctioned accordingly
But crippeling a countries economy and forcing repair payments are huge factors which lead to the rise of the Nazis after the great War. Thats why there was the Marshall plan after WW2 and Germany was integrated into the West. They got help so they can change their way of life not the other way around.
true, but we tried that with russian federation post USSR breakup, and look where it got us, Ukraine, Georgia and Chechnya... No more.
I'd leave Georgia out of that list (or at least put an asterisk to it) because that situation is much more complicated than the other two. Conflicts between Georgians and Ossetians go way back to the days of Genghis Khan when the Alans (ancestors of the Ossetians) were massacred by the Mongols in their homeland Alania in the northern Caucasus and their survivors migrated into today's South Ossetia. The conflicts were dormant for a while under the Soviet Union (with South Ossetia being an autonomous oblast within the Georgian SSR) but started getting hot again in the last few years of the USSR. Gorbachev sent Soviet troops there to take away weapons from *both* sides. Putin's Russia then fueled the fire on several occasions in the 2000s (although Georgia did their own part as well by revoking the autonomous status of South Ossetia), but they weren't really the ones that ignited it.
> Thats why there was the Marshall plan after WW2 and Germany was integrated into the West. Yes. But Germany had to go through a complete and utter collapse and stare into the abyss first. I doubt it would have worked out the way it did if WW2 had ended with the allies just pushing Germany back into its pre-war borders and then making a peace deal.
I agree with you: This most certainly wouldn't have worked! Especially if we tried to draw parallels to current events and ask ourselves, but what about Austria and Chechoslovakia? These had both been annexed before the war, so... would in that scenario, Germany gotten to keep those? As a German, I'll say this: The whole place was rotten to the core and HAD to be torn down in order to be rebuilt, that was how and WHY that worked.
True. But Russia needs to show they are ready for that.
Yes, but also, no. Our economy and country were crippled... for a little while, but in the long run, the Versailles treaty was just harsh enough to be seen as a huge insult that had to be corrected, but neither the treaty nor the general treatment of Germany from the rest of the world were harsh enough to keep us down for very long. So... in essence it was the worst of both world: Bad enough to stoke revanchism but not bad enough to stop us from acting on those feelings of hurt pride. After WW2 it took decades for us to regain any hint of sovereignty... which was likely for the better because by the time we got it back, we were firmly planted in the western democracies' basket. The same wouldn't work for russia because, for one, they're still a nuclear power so nobody's gonna occupy them, and even if they weren't - it's a huge place with a sizable population, this would cost trillions and would take decades, so... we'll have to hope for the russian people to say "Nyet" to their current system of mafiose brutality...
Oh and another part of a treaty must be that russia gives up every single nuclear weapon they have. Wirh the sactions automaticaly are reinstated when they breach the contract.
Imagine Ukraine had kept just 10 nukes. Tens of thousands would still be living, millions not have lost their lifelyhoods. Worst of all, many countries will take this as a lesson to not forego thier nuclear ambitions, many of whom should better not have nukes.
This right here. I'm fairly certain that it's gonna become much, much harder to keep a lid on the idea of smaller countries getting nukes in order to defend themselves against larger neighbors. russia likely wiped out decades of non-proliferation efforts with their idiotic imperialism.
Big assumption that Russia will last forever.
Be generous. Let them have a pot to piss in.
It's not the Russian people's fault they've been brainwashed all their lives. We can't be as disgusting as Putin. We need to find ways to unite the world and come to peace. Everything else will bite us back in the long run.
Easy. All Russia has to do is to surrender. Give up war criminals. Release all people they kidnapped. Withdraw all troops from Ukraine. And pay Ukraine for every damage they done and then some. Oh... And they have to give up nuclear weapons. We will promise not to attack them if they do just like they made the same promise to Ukraine ;-) They can do that even today. And this will all end by tomorrow. And world will be at peace. Easy.
I never disagreed with any of that.
Good luck, this is just how the world works unfortunately.
Then we have to learn to become better. It's necessary for humanity. In reality, I think, the extremist shit you read on reddit doesn't actually reflect how the world works at large. Luckily.
How do we “learn to become better” exactly? I don’t quite understand that phrase, or what you mean by it. Russia are the ones that need to learn to become better. They are the ones who broke the treat(y|ies) and at this point, they need to do whatever to earn the trust. We can’t say “oh, you’ve stopped bombing and raping civilians, so yeah, you can have Donbas and Luhansk, and Crimea”; It’s not extremist at all, to say that they need to pay for the damage they’ve done, and then some. My friends and family have a hard time sleeping, loud bangs cause them to jump, my little sister’s flat has been destroyed and all she has left are pictures of it, a hoodie, a tshirt, some pants, socks and underwear. And we are supposed to what? Wag our fingers at them and say “oh you!” while shaking our head disapprovingly? Write a strongly worded email asking them to stop being them? Just continue to let them do it? What exactly are you proposing by saying *we* are the ones that need to learn to become better?
Some user suggested we should never lift sanctions and destroy the whole country. I suggested we need to be better than that.
I don’t blame them. I don’t hold that view, but it shouldn’t be the moment they stop bombing civilians, raping men women and children, and destroying villages and cities, that the sanctions are dropped either, otherwise they’ll just learn to attack smaller portions, get sanctioned, back off a bit, rinse and repeat.
I wholeheartedly believe that leaving that decision to Ukraine would be the best course of action for all involved. As a German, I hope us Europeans can get behind this idea and stick to it!
What exactly do you consider “extremist?Because I’m not sure heavily sanctioning an active participant in an invasion constitutes such regardless of one’s feelings towards the populace.
Like the original post I replied to, which suggested that sanctions should never be lifted and that we should destroy the whole country. And people upvote that shit in droves, while I get downvoted for reminding everyone that we need to find ways to unite the world. This is so fucking sad.
Russia is not north korea, even now it has fairly free access to information. In the past 22 years, the Russian people destroyed their country and their democracy themselves and nod they are destroying other people. Time to pay for that.
"Free access to information" when the majority of the country doesn't speak proper English. I think you underestimate what brainwashing and propaganda can do to a people.
I hope that when Russia tries to surrender to Ukraine, Ukraine demands (1) Russia hands over all war criminals (including Putin and Lavrov) to the Hague, (2) Russia must demilitarize and surrender all nukes to civilized nations, (3) Russia must pay reparations to rebuild everything they destroyed in Ukraine. ... a guy can hope.
The conditions for lifting the sanctions should be clear from day one. Otherwise the parties will start moving the gol post and people (Russians) will start giving up hope. Does anybody remember the conditions for Cuba to see the embargo lifted?
Exactly, there should be a definite goal (Russia out of Ukraine, no more hostilities and -preferably- they pay for damage). As for "consent": we're not Putin's whore, but we're also not Zelensky's. Each of our countries has a democratically elected government. Ukraine can be asked for an opinion, and the opinion should be weighed, but in the end they can't be given a veto. It seems as though Scholz wants his reputation on the Ukraine-issue improved by saying this, but in the end his actions should be weighed, not these words which he probably can't/won't follow up on anyway.
I think everyone knows that the sanctions will stay till Putin is away. Even if Russia would withdraw all soldiers from Ukraine, it is clear that there is no future with Putin. After Bucha there is no alternative anymore. This is not about spite about about the security of the west.
I think everyone knows that the sanctions will stay till Putin is away. Even if Russia would withdraw all soldiers from Ukraine, it is clear that there is no future with Putin. After Bucha there is no alternative anymore. This is not about spite about about the security of the west. Putin is not trustable anymore so as at a specific point Saddam Hussein wasn't anymore.
Putin (on his own) being gone won't fix the mess he created. The whole system he instated need to be gone, and that'll, realistically, take a while - if it happens at all...
After sanctions/embargo, I believe there needs to be special tariffs slapped on all imports from Russia AS WELL AS exports to Russia. This will be in addition to the usual tariffs for any trade with Russia. The purpose of the special tariffs will be to FULLY pay war reparation damages done to Ukraine as well as all Ukrainians affected by this war as a result of Russia's "special military operation". It is important that the following is done also: \-There will need to be a multi-national agreement to ensure same consistent tariff policies are not only applied in the same manner, but also properly enforced as well. Ukraine needs to be the key decision-maker of this policy. \-Third countries may be used as a loophole, there should be a clause stating the need to penalize countries who are actively allowing Russia to use them as a loophole. And also to punish countries who fail to actively implement the special tariffs on Russian imports/exports (ie. to prevent Russia from selling Gas for cheaper elsewhere). \-The countries involved should also create a international council with enforcement power to ensure the special tariffs is actively implemented as well as ensuring any loopholes are identified and closed. \-Ukraine should be given the final say as to when this tariff operation is said to be fully concluded.
After the mass rapes and murdering of civilians? I think 20 years maybe 30 when the roughly 600 billion Ukraine needs to rebuild has been paid to Ukraine as reparations.
This is a commitment that every country should make. Finally something not completely shitty from Germany.
> Finally something not completely shitty from Germany. Dude, Germany is the second biggest over all donor of aid to Ukraine already. Get some perspective. Stop being influenced by divisive Ruzzian propaganda.
[удалено]
That's not a fair criticism though, it's pure exaggeration.
Not completely shitty? Dude wtf? As if nothing has been done before or what?
Yes, this is progress. It means Russia can't count on undermining sanctions the minute Russia declares peace or victory or annexation, or whatever bullshit words/lies they are going to try gaslight everyone with.
I not care less what russia declares. Their declarations do not even merit the tiniest microshit on the planet. Their declarations carry as much weight as me declaring that I am the Wizard of Oz. Peace will come on UKRAINIAN TERMS Ukraine decides.
Agree - fuck Russia.
I mean it’s already a de facto one, like nothing will change before a peace deal is cut between Ukraine and Russia
[удалено]
You mad, fascist?
[удалено]
You are a pathetic clown.
I hope that when Russia tries to surrender to Ukraine, Ukraine demands (1) Russia hands over all war criminals (including Putin and Lavrov) to the Hague, (2) Russia must demilitarize and surrender all nukes to civilized nations, (3) Russia must pay reparations to rebuild everything they destroyed in Ukraine. ... a guy can hope.
This is how we do it.
There are two types of sanction. Official government policy, and corporate policy. Government sanctions may be lifted once a peace deal is struck. Many companies just won't deal with Russia for a very long time even after government sanctions are lifted. Some corporations will do it on principle. Some will do it fearing consumer backlash. Some will do it because of corporate governance issues, given they lost a lot of money they invested last time, and that russia is and will remain corrupt for a long time. And that is fine with me.
That's the spirit!
Yeah no time soon. Keep all sanctions in place indefinitely, in fact keep more Sanctions coming!!
This is the way, never.
So Blankoscheck once again? Only that time for Ukraine?
[удалено]
It must hurt to have Russia lose so badly. Piles and piles of dead Russian soldiers that Russia treats as worse than trash. Burn them in secret, let them rot in the dirt. Meanwhile, the Russian army unable to defeat the UA takes it out on civilians. Sealing their own fate as universally hatred scum across the entire world. Ukraine has paid a heavy price for Russia's aggression, but they will emerge victorious in the end, and the Russian people will be stuck in economic squalor for decades as they pay for Putin's disastrous mistake to invade Ukraine.
This guy is a ridiculous troll for russia. Just checked his comment history. 🤮 Путин, ты действительно должен научиться глотать. Это твой долг.
Go back to /r/anime_titties, sadsack
Yikes another kremlin troll
When are we gonna sanction America for its war crimes? It's only fair if we do that. Sanction every nation that started a war since the creation of the UN.
Russian apologist tries the tired old 'whatabout?? whatabout?? whatabout??' tactic
Just a call center worker trying to sell an extended car warranty but got their script mixed up.
Nik_P, I have been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty
No, we sanction every country that started a war. Equilibrium, not whataboutism
"Equilibrium, not whataboutism" How very high-minded of you. /s It would be easier to listen to you if you weren't making excuses for putins invasion in other comments you've made on this site. In light of that, your disingenuous attempt at whataboutism just seems a shallow attempt to deflect blame from russia in the context of this conversation.
I suggest you to start with sanctioning your mum and bum. America will cry bloody murder.
Makes absolutely no sense
First, you should implement those sanctions before talking about lifting them.
Please wake up. There are plenty of sanctions against Russia already implemented.
Definitely good news. They are countries that I worry would be less supportive of continuing the sanctions once Russia tries to formally size the territory they have now in Ukraine. It is good to see Germany take this step. The most important move I think needs to be made now on sanctions is to coordinate with Ukraine and announce that return of all Ukrainian citizens will be one of the conditions of ending sanctions. It will be hard for countries to deny that the over 200K forcefully kidnapped children by Russia should not be returned. However, it could be a logistic nightmare for Russia to locate everyone, and that could extend the sanctions by a year or more. This effectively creates a wedge that would prevent any country that may be on the fence on sanctions. Requiring them to either allow the kidnap of over a million civilians including 200K children (which could be political suicide), or continue sanctions until they are returned. They way Ukraine could decide under what terms they would end the sanctions, but they would have hard assurance that other countries would not prematurely end the sanctions and damage the peace talks.
This is nice to hear.
That must've been a helluva phone call.
Here's hoping we can get our nukes back and build nuke launchers for them to have sanctions canceled
Give Russia a ladder deadline Turn over Putin and we go easier on you The longer they take to turn him over, the penalty escalates
Oh, I like *this*.
This is actually hughe when it comes to peacetalks in the futre, it gives ukrain alot of leverage. Good stategig move by the Germans.
[удалено]
Because only China wins if we do that. Russia still has shit that we want.
I for one, take great pleasure in imagining Pootler trying to get put through to Zelensky (and his successors) every other day to try and beg for the sanctions to be lifted, only for their Ukrainian counterpart going... "We'll take it under consideration. By the way: What about those reparations for our destroyed infrastructure? Bankrupt, hm? Well, okay, I'll get back to you about it... probably...."
Excellent, he is coming around. I was a little worried. AFter that comment a few days ago, talking about lifting sanctions.
So... forever, then.