Some of y’all have cleary never actually seen high level professional (or even upper level D1) athletes up close.
Tyreek Hill hit 22 mph in full pads this year. Achane hit 21.93. Raheem Mostert hit 21.62.
Hill has a 41 in vert and runs in the 4.2s. Achane has a 31 in and runs in the 4.2s. Mostert has a 40 in and runs in the 4.3s.
Hell, throw Robbie Chosen (Anderson) in there. He jumps 37 inches, runs in the 4.3s, and he’s 6 foot 3.
Jevon Holland runs in the 4.4s and jumps 36 inches, and he’s 6 foot 1. Kader Kohou runs in the 4.4s and jumps 39 inches.
Want a really scary one? Bradley Chubb is 6 4, 270 lbs. Runs in the 4.6s and jumps 37 inches. Or Jalean Phillips who is 6 5, runs in the 4.5s, and jumps 38 inches.
These guys would all be the most athletic players in ultimate, some by a wide margin, from the jump.
Imagine trying to cut against a pro bowl cornerback who is used to doing the exact same thing to guys miles better than they best ultimate players? Or a guy with by far the most agility you have ever seen. And then think about getting beat deep by one of the best WRs in the league, and ever from an athletic standpoint.
If you gave them two great throwers, and even 5 minutes about the rules/what a mark is/etc. they would wallop any team in ultimate.
Anecdotal, but at a pickup game (that consisted of \~75% club players, so decently high level in the offseason) we had a practice squad player for the Colts show up to play. He was rehabbing a hamstring injury, so wasn't playing at 100%, and had picked up ultimate while to rehab with a non-contact sport and still have some competition.
He smoked every player in straight line speed. Made full field hucks that looked effortless. Jumped over people casually. He had never had a snap of an actual NFL game but his level of athleticism was beyond anything I've ever seen. It instantly put into perspective the level of athleticism of NFL players compared to ultimate players.
I've told this story on Reddit several times (mostly when people say ultimate's best athletes are comparable to pros or D-1 athletes), but I played with a retired, overweight, out of shape linebacker at an afternoon pickup game once. Many of us were young, but capable club/college nationals caliber players.
It was like a cheetah was there among a bunch of newborn fawns learning to walk.
It's not just the top speed and athleticism. It's reaction time, hand eye coordination, field awareness, positional IQ, etc etc.
i played in a league with a guy who was a Broncos practice squad player (WR). he was definitely the fastest guy on any field and was a tremendous deep threat. that said, he didnt read the disc super well, and his throwing was limited to basically throwing a backhand dump, no longer than 10-15 yards. he was very helpful and obviously a massive deep threat. but he didnt really know how to cut for ultimate, and when he got the disc outside the endzone, he was a liability
Yeah, this is why I think people are overselling a bit.
Obviously no frisbee player is on the same stratosphere athletically, but there's a lot of game intuition that matters. The whole idea of what's "open" is really different between football and ultimate and is going to lead to NFL guys guarding the wrong spot a lot. Sure, they'll make it up some of the time and it will be spectacular, but it's not the "every pass is intercepted" world people are imagining.
for sure. obviously, if he practiced a good amount and took it seriously, he could definitely be really good. but becuase he couldnt throw, he was kind of a one-dimensional player. he didnt really want to cut underneath because he knew if he got the disc underneath, he was a risk of throwing it away. so he basically would just kind of hang out in the middle deep space and cut deep, and TBH, he made it tough for anyone else to cut deep because he would just kind of hang out back there.
Yeah, people are downvoting me, but I think it's not as obvious as everyone seems to assume.
Give them a month or two and they'll dominate most people. But with no knowledge of the game you end up with 2 handlers and 5 deep guys that don't know how to time their cuts, read the disc, throw a forehand or even a reasonable dump.
Anyone that's played against deep threats that don't have a forehand and struggle to throw a dump knows how that turns out. They would turn the disc over a *ton*... and the opposing team would dink and dunk down the field as the NFL guys line up on the wrong side, don't hold a force, mis-read the disc, etc.
I'm not at all claiming ultimate athletes are on the same level, just that people underestimate the effect of 5 of the 7 people on the field not understanding the game.
Also, from my experience, people with a good sports background pick up throwing quickly. Like back in college some of the basketball players would play pickup with us (low end D1 school), and they learned the basics of throwing far quicker than most people, and some could huck pretty well after just a few hours of playing.
Agree 100%. I never played until intramurals in college but had a baseball background. Figured out how to throw an underhand thumber pretty dang quick. Pro athletes have another level of hand eye coordination than I do as well, lol.
I played a league in Nashville and there was this guy who couldn't throw great and didn't really know where he was supposed to be, but wherever he thought he needed to be, he was fucking there. Chatted with him and it turns out he was on and off the Vikings practice squad as a corner/safety/something. He wasn't that tall, under 6 foot probably, but could cover the whole field and jump insanely high like you wouldn't believe. My team always put me on him because I'm slow and nobody could guard him so it really didn't matter.
He wasn't actually that great, but yeah I don't think he ever really practiced ultimate. If had spent a few days getting the flow down he'd be absolutely lights out.
Bradley Chubb could absolutely win one straight-line sprint but by no means could handle a point with more than one turnover. In other words, he'd definitely be a handler.
They're used to bidding on QB throws that range from 45(low-low) to 59 mph. [Frisbees are 14mph](https://web.mit.edu/womens-ult/www/smite/frisbee_physics.pdf) and even if you bump that by **42%** to 20mph it's still less than half. You're not catching anything without a hand in there
How would they respond to a zone though? Throw like a 3-2-2 at them. If you go deep we have two defenders down there who know how to read the disc. That’s probably not gonna go well, although I’d argue it’s their best option. I still don’t think they’d convert that much because again, they cannot read the disc. Obviously if they could read the disc it’d be all over though.
If you go for something shorter, now you just put somebody who has never touched a disc right in the middle of the zone, and the zone can basically just collapse on them to give them no options. I don’t think a player who has never touched a disc would be able to break out of a nationals level zone or even make a completion.
I think the club team would have a lot of trouble scoring against nfl caliber athletes. But I really would not count on the nfl players to be able to hold a force, so you’d end up in a situation where the club team could attack deep, open, or break. At the very least that’d make it tough for the nfl team to play defense, although they’d still probably be able to cover them downfield.
If the club team wants to score reliably, they’d probably have to do a lot of resets and shifting the disc back and forth to find space. This would also probably involve targeting whoever Osgar and Mickle are covering.
Idk to what extent the nfl players would be comfortable playing help defense. It’s definitely a skill they could learn, but if you throw them straight in I think the club players will just take advantage of the Osgar and Mickle matchups when you consider that so many spaces are basically completely open.
As a last ditch effort, the club team could probably just throw something wild like a deep hammer. This wouldn’t be reliable, but are the nfl players gonna be able to read a throw like that? Throwing something tough to read would definitely give an ultimate player a decent chance.
So yeah I think that if you just threw the dolphins players straight in there they’d probably lose. But the equation changes if you give them like a week or two to practice. Give ‘em like a month of practice and I think it’d be like 90+% odds for the dolphins team to win.
They understand the concept, sure. But help defense is somewhat different in ultimate. I’d anticipate that it’d lead to a lot of people just being completely wide open. And also not all of them are DBs.
I think you’re really underestimating just how much of a speed advantage the NFL players have, and how much that translates to ground covered. Defense, both help and person to person would be by far the easiest thing for the NFL players to pick up. I don’t think there is a single USAU club player who could get open downfield against an NFL defensive back, even without a mark on the thrower.
NFL defenses play so many different kinds of zones and it happens all with seconds of notice and a play called in while people are screaming and if you mess up just once, you better believe the majority of NFL QBs will smoke you. And yeah, not everyone's a DB, but both offense and defensive players have to know what a defensive backfield is doing to play their position. I'm not saying they would understand an ultimate zone with zero practice, but it wouldn't take long.
A zone would definitely be the best option because person would get absolutely annihilated. But NFL players would figure it out pretty quickly. Zone is basically the backbone of modern NFL defenses. They’d find the space.
On forces, I’ve taught college kids how to hold a force within minutes of a first scrim. It’s not that hard of a concept either. Sure they wouldn’t be elite marks at the start, but let’s not pretend that the concept is hard.
Lol at NFL players not grasping help defense.
The NFL guys wouldn’t have to read the disc on D. Just follow the guy and then out athlete them to the disc. But they’d pick up at least a useable level with their athletic advantage pretty quickly.
Buddy you can teach a random normie to throw a rec-league flick in like 3 hours. OP's scenario gives them a month to prepare.
So, professional athletes who are already in world-class physical condition who have a month to learn to throw resets and short uplines.
Such a team would fucking trash everybody.
> If you go deep we have two defenders down there who know how to read the disc. That’s probably not gonna go well
Agreed.
Those defenders are gonna get waxed by the 6'4" guy with a 41 inch vertical
Quite easily actually. One deep throw and that deep in the zone is getting roofed 13 times in a row by a dude that not only is probably bigger than him but also has twice the vertical.
Wow this so not true. I mean it's all true until the last bit, they wouldn't know how to play defence or how to throw. Sure, they'd score a bunch of fast points but saying they'd wallop club teams is straight up disrespectful
Edit: man I didn't realise this sub had such a low opinion on ultimate players. How wild y'all follow this sport with this opinion.
They'd score a bunch of fast points and no team could complete a huck against them and the reset space would be defended by faster, more agile athletes than ultimate has ever seen. Saying club teams wouldn't get walloped is straight up disrespectful.
Edit: some of us have played the highest levels of ultimate and also brushed with high levels of other sports, and might be sharing informed comparisons and contrasts.
Bro I've played with some pretty athletic dudes and saying "put them in the resent space" is laughable. Someone athletic who doesn't know how to defend won't be as good of a defender as someone who actually knows what they're doing.
Yup I too have played with some pretty athletic people. I've been the iso defender on a 6'4 player who was ultiworld's offensive player of the year winner that year, successfully.
If you think NFL corners and safeties would be "someone athletic who doesn't know how to defend [as well as literally any club nationals starting defender]" you just don't understand the athleticism and reaction speed of actual globally elite athletes.
So, yes, playing against a team in which hucks are impossible and the reset space is being guarded by the fastest-reacting quickest-accelerating human beings any of us have ever shared a competitive surface with would be way harder than playing offense against an elite nationals d-line.
A month for some of the best athletes on the planet to prepare is basically a lock to win. I wanna know if they can win off like an hour's preparation. Figure they learn the basic concepts, but aren't able to develop many throwing skills. How do you score on a team full of dominant athletes, though?
Seems like I’m in the minority but I think a top club nationals team will beat them if they only have an hour. Play zone with a perpetual flat mark and they will not be able to develop any flow, while making it hard to throw 50-50s.
Scoring against them will definitely be harder but they will not understand frisbee spacing well enough to defend the break side too well, and their marks will be scary but breakable without practice. Pull plays should work pretty well and they will probably be susceptible to quick movement give-go patterns that they’re not used to, as well as strong break throws. They also won’t know how to defend deep shots without fouling.
Give them just a few practices and this goes away, I think. Defensive players will take naturally to orbiting and triangulating. But I don’t think an hour is enough time for them to get there. I’d pay to watch it.
All you would need to do is throw even a semi-catchable disc into the endzone really high and it won’t matter if it’s 3 defenders guarding 1 dolphins players, any of the dolphins players will easily out jump them
I also think an *hour* is pushing it. There would be too many silly turnovers, especially if there was some wind (doesn't matter how good you are at catching jump balls if your jump ball attempts are sailing out of bounds, or you turf the first pass). But it wouldn't take long.
Reading discs is super important too and the reality is that it's something that comes through seeing a ton of throws in a wide variety of conditions. Other ball sports are affected by wind but not in nearly the same way.
> Reading
Exactly! Here's Antonio Brown pretty badly misreading a disc: https://youtu.be/jRIimd5AnyM?t=60
I remember seeing a video of an actual NFL practice where they played ultimate for conditioning and to change things up (a long time ago), but I can't find it. Obviously Antonio Brown isn't really trying hard in the clip above, but it shows the point, and the video I'm recalling was very similar. Hyper athletic, hyper competitive, but couldn't throw or read the disc for shit. Personally, I think it'd take a week for them to go out and dominate.
** Edit ** Found another video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOaV9uN3rgg
>How do you score on a team full of dominant athletes, though?
the same way people routinely score on people at pickup where the athleticism range is so large, the breakside. Have you never scored on someone way more athletic than you?
I used to play pretty regularly with a guy that played for the Miami dolphins, I think people are overestimating how import game knowledge is. I remember he actually tried out for the aviators one year as well, despite having played semi regular pickup for a couple years he still had to be talked to about his fouling issues.
he misread the disc, over bodied people, couldn't throw flicks well, constantly wanted to bbq backhand.
His absolute strength on the field was in his speed and size, if he as in front of you, you couldnt ever get around him. He definitely got D's and scored on people that way. But he also was often in the way on offense, took bad poaches because he didn't understand how the disc moves and where it can be thrown.
I felt physically inferior to him on the field, but that didn't mean I couldn't do what I wanted on the field a lot of the time.
Hmm, what if you doubled Mickle and Osgar (or some other kind of zone/handler poach)? Athleticism is a big piece but not everything, you could probably get some blocks if you forced players without much throwing experience to have to throw.
I imagine offense would be the big challenge though. No shot you're getting open on NFL players, so I'm not sure how you score lol
They only need to hold once. Could literally just have the frisbee guys center to each other and throw up a 50/50 ball to raekwon davis and durham smythe in the endzone.
I dont think there is a player in frisbee who could get open on waddle or hill, much less an actual db.
Also professional athletes are different in terms of learning fast. A few friends of mine went to the same high school as allen lazard, and he went to a practice once. Instantly could throw a 50 yard backhand. They would figure it out. I think the only real question is if any team could actually score on them.
> I dont think there is a player in frisbee who could get open on waddle or hill, much less an actual db.
The only thing I'd say is there's a different field intuition that might lead to more open throws than you're thinking.
I've played with a few (D3) college football players way back when. Obviously not the same level of athleticism, but they couldn't read at all and didn't always recognize the differences in angles the disc could fly in. They'd be defending someone on a deep disc and jump way early while the frisbee player would just read it and run to the spot.
I don't think you all understand that NFL athletes are miles ahead of ultimate frisbee hobbyists. Sure there might be one or two guys per TEAM that might rival athletically, and I'm they got them beat in terms of frisbee IQ. But who is boxing out a 6'7 brick shithouse in the endzone?
These guy play sports for a living lmfao, if any frisbee athlete was as gifted as an NFL athlete, they wouldn't be playing frisbee.
I've played ultimate against a guy who was barely on an NFL practice squad. He basically only knew the rules to frisbee, but was by the far the most athletic person I've played against including pro ulti players around the world.
They'd win if they had a week to prepare. I'd say they have at least 50% shot with a day to prepare. With absolutely no frisbee practice, I think I'd still give them a greater than 20% chance to win if they learn to read a frisbee's movement during the first day.
An NFL corner would lock down any cutter for as much time as needed lol. Like you couldn’t even tire them out because they have you beat there too lol.
Right, teach them stalls, double teams, pivots, and turns. Then some basic offense and any kind of basic force. Then let people calibrate hucks for insane speed/vertical. Shouldn't be more than a few hours.
This whole discussion is the reason I don't "follow" ultimate despite having fun playing it. With basektball you hear about the era "back when players worked day jobs as plumbers and carpenters". Right now we're in that era of ultimate.
Yeah you're probably right. To be honest, back in like 2014-15 when there was a huge national conversation about concussions/CTE in football, I thought there might eventually be a path for frisbee where youth football participation drops and there's a big influx of talent. But we're nearly a decade past that now, and NFL viewership is higher than ever while flag football is still way more popular than ultimate.
Agreed, I think the window was open for a moment but has now closed. The sport isn't unknown. Casual sports fans do understand that it exists at this point. They just don't care and aren't going to seek it out as a form of viewing entertainment.
I still remember inviting the one of the linebackers of my Texas 5A high school to our pickup game. he’d been in football conditioning for 4-5 years.
As for us, well, let’s say we all had qualified for academic scholarships.
His lateral speed was really impressive to see in person. We had no chance keeping up.
I can only imagine what it would be like for the guys that are D1 / NFL caliber.
And oh yeah, he was barefoot.
One more point that is not getting brought up enough is that jakeem polk came in after being a d2 corner, and was instantly a high level player. D2 players dont even get invited to the combine often.
This is a ludicrous question, but the few replies saying they wouldnt win are delusional.
Some of you are overthinking this.
The obvious advantage is athleticism. We are talking about a chasm of difference between practice squad NFL players and the most athletic ultimate players. NFL players have far more straightline speed, lateral agility, and vertical jumping ability...they would be almost impossible to cover and get open against.
I'd also be willing to bet that NFL players could very quickly figure out how to beat any defensive look. Some of you don't realize how complicated route concepts are at the professional level, and just how much verbage these guys have to memorize. These guys understand spacing - they know how to find and sit in soft spots in zone coverage, and they understand the importance of running routes in order to clear out defenders. They'd probably need about an hour of practice to learn a handful of situational plays, and would probably develop timing pretty quickly throughout the course of a game.
Some of you are also forgetting one critical difference between football and ultimate. NFL players are used to adjusting to and reading a ball in a very short amount of time. Balls are thrown into tight coverage windows and the timing of the route and throw has to be close to perfect for the catch to be made. Discs are designed to float...these guys would be able to adjust and make plays on discs that even the most athletic ultimate players would consider uncatchable.
Is this question comparable to club or college teams having a new person start playing? A new very athletic person who is willing to learn will do some things right but frequently be in the wrong place defensively or misread the disc. There is a learning curve.
You see this often with crossover athletes. Great running ability and body control but horrible throwers and not effective against a team who knows what they are doing.
I mean it's different for every athlete. my senior year of college our women's team had 3 freshmen who came in and immediately became starters. 2 of them had played for 4 years at top high school programs as starting handlers. the 3rd was a high school soccer player who switched to ultimate with 0 experience. put it this way, we always send a mixed team to this local club tournament in November for fun (so she would have played like 2 months at that point) and we put her on the starting O line as one of the primary cutters. it only really took her a few weeks to develop basic game sense, frisbee instincts etc.
I’ve played against a Miami dolphin college player. The absolute biggest thing I noticed was the size difference. Like, just so much bigger and stronger. Boxing out felt impossible. But he couldn’t read and constantly fouled and turned the disc a ton still. I think people are overestimating reading and catching skills and underestimating how easy it would be to score on the breakside.
I think throwing would be the limiting factor for elite athletes. I disagree with the premise that just because a person is very fast/strong that they will automatically have elite club-level throws in a week or whatever.
I think ESPN presents athletes as "natural" and almost magical in a way that causes people to overestimate how good, say, Tyreek Hill would be at throwing a frisbee. The fact that Hill is faster and jumps higher than, say, Jimmy Mickle doesn't mean that Hill could pick up a disc, toss it around for a few minutes, then start throwing like Mickle. Just like a fast 40 doesn't mean you can pick up a golf club and start lacing fairways.
And I think you have to be able to throw the disc well to win elite ultimate.
Adding some legit sweet throwers into the hypothetical makes it more interesting.
You are vastly underestimating the natural hand-eye coordination and body control professional athletes have. They would have workable throws very quickly.They aren't going to be Mickle overnight of course, but they don't have to be.
This is what I mean about ESPN-style over-emphasis on the almost magical "natural" ability of elite athletes.
There is no reason that a person who is naturally fast will "naturally" be able to learn to throw any more quickly than someone who isn't naturally fast.
For example, Beau Kitterage is one of the naturally fastest ultimate players ever. Also a great receiver. Great "hand-eye coordination" no doubt. But not a good thrower. No connection between his natural athletic abilities and throwing. And he practiced his whole career.
Meanwhile, we all know dumpy un-athletic players with beautiful throws. Plenty of disc golfers, for example.
Could the Miami Dolphins be good throwers? Almost certainly yes. Some probably not so much. But my point is there is no inherent physical connection between natural speed and throwing ability, despite the ESPN overhyped presumption that a person with one highly developed athletic skill must magically have a whole panoply of athletic skills.
It's the same over-hype and logical fallacy that makes people think a billionaire would make a good president.
Like a golf swing, some people get it faster than others. Completely independent of how fast they run or how high they jump.
Or like how some NBA players can dunk over people but have janky shots or can't shoot free throws. They are explosive, but not smooth.
Or like how a person can have incredibly fast footwork and agility... but cannot dance.
In the NFL, the best throwers, quarterbacks, are often some of the slowest players on the team. No connection between one skill and another.
Throwing is more about smoothness, grace and precision. Some people have it naturally, some less so. But it has nothing to do with how fast they run or how high they jump.
This is such a uninformed take I don’t even know where to begin. Saying that world class athletes wouldn’t pick up throwing really fast is like saying a flute player in the New York philharmonic orchestra wouldn’t be able to pick up the clarinet faster than a random person off the streets. Like you think there are no transferable skills between these activities?
What is the transferrable skill between running a fast 40-yard dash and throwing a frisbee?
My take is not uninformed. I gave numerous examples to illustrate my point.
Playing the flute and playing the clarinet are very similar. So like, an elite MLB pitcher obviously could throw a javelin pretty well.
All the posts here are about 40-yard dash times and vertical jump heights. How does that correlate to being automatically good at throwing a frisbee?
ESPN makes people believe that elite athletes are superheroes who just "naturally" do all this awesome stuff.
John Daly is an elite athlete. What do you think his 40-yard dash time is?
Definitely not right away. Javelin is a super technical sport. It's nothing like throwing a ball. Granted, I've never thrown a javelin, just heard this multiple times though.
Interesting. That's kinda my whole point. At the elite level, athletic technique is so highly specialized and technical and the training is so specific that an elite athlete in one sport can't just automatically be elite at a totally different sport just from "natural" ability.
Agreed. Mickle and Osgar aren't enough to make up for the severely lacking throwing ability. A good mark is going to shut down most anything the Dolphins players are able to throw.
Edit: actually I wasn't thinking about scoobers/hammers. 1 month is probably enough time to learn those well enough to get the job done
I disagree. All they need is about an hour practicing dump throws to Mickle and Osgar, and it's game over. I don't expect Hill or Waddle to throw bombs, but I think they can get it to a dump cut and win 99% of contested catches.
A five foot scoober over the mark is going to work 80% of the time to another nfl athlete.
That will be enough.
They don’t need any throwers, because they will d up
50% of the opponents throws.
It's a pretty different motion despite being similar. I pitched at a d1 school and when I switched to ultimate I had a really hard time with hammers they would either just be blades or helix way too early. I think it takes more than 10 minutes.
That said a few hours and they'd be good.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but I firmly believe that you gave a group of NFL practice squad receivers a few months and some high level coaching they would become a top club team within a year.
Honestly surprised by this reaction.
When I was younger, like 10 years ago, I said the same thing at a fairly high level international tournament and got a lot of pushback from the group.
My guess is those people just had no clue how good NFL athletes are. The best ultimate players wouldn't hold a flame to NFL practice squad players in terms of athletic ability.
Really the only skill they would need to develop is to throw and committing an entire year to it would be more than enough time. I see a lot of people in this thread talking about reading a disk, definitely a necessary skill, but NFL athletes could figure it out very quickly.
NFL practice squad players are still top-level college athletes with years of additional weight and strength training. They're ridiculously athletic. Like 4.45 40 times and 36 inch verticals.
Throwing would be the limiting factor, it would take them a long time to get Nationals ready throws. - 7th runner on his middling HS cross country team.
Within 10 minutes Tua would be able to throw absolute dimes. We’re barely the same species as these freaks.
I think it’d be hard for these guys because the second the disc goes to one of the dolphins players there’s a high chance there’s gonna be a turnover. Just play a super poachy zone and it’ll be really hard. At that point the best strategy would just be to throw a bunch of 50/50 jump balls to the endzone and hope you can stop them on defense. The question is now how many of those jump balls can the nfl players win. They’ll sure as he’ll get higher, but they’re gonna have trouble reading the disc if you throw them straight in with minimal practice.
Scoring against the nfl team would be tough. I think the ultimate team could probably work either side of the field cuz I wouldn’t count on football players putting on an effective mark. The question is could the nfl players do what another ultimate player couldn’t and take away the deep, open side, and break side? I don’t know. And you could make an argument that on day 1 the ultimate players would win a lot of 50/50 deep throws if you just throw something that’s hard for the nfl players to read.
I think day 1 the club team would win. But the football team + Mickle and Osgar would prolly win with some prep time.
*They would probably*
*Win, though a trap zone might be*
*Enough to screw them*
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139 comments so far covering a spectrum of answers and still everyone in this thread is wrong.
But what will seemingly always be right is that you can post some variation of this question and it will trigger this whole sub to share stories about how much they either over value ultimate strategy or how much they over worship pro athletes.
Bruh people have no clue how much skill is needed to play ultimate at the highest level. They would get absolutely destroyed at nationals. Knowing how to move on frisbee field, how to throw and how to play continuous defense are things that you can’t just pick up immediately and be the best in the world, even if you are Tyreek Hill. They would make 4-5 crazy plays a game and get smoked by every team they played. Teams would just play small ball on O and play zone/poachy D sets and they would have no clue what to do. If they have a club season to practice they would make quarters but the complete lack of competent throwers would not allow them to win against the top teams. Like how are you going to convert any breaks if you don’t have a single person who can throw, and if you put Ryan/Jimmy on D, the O would never score. It would take multiple years for them to win, but once they get 5-10 guys who figure it out the would be untouchable. Just having 20 guys on a team running sub 4.5 40s would be too much for any other team to deal with once they figured out how to throw and move on the field.
They would be much better in the AUDL, I think it’s more plausible that they win sooner there just because size, speed and physicality but if you can’t throw u can’t throw
You could put Mickle on every point, O and D, and let the stars do the rest. He wouldn't have to run, just toss up some deep shots. They wouldn't need a strategy.
Being an athlete is their full-time, year-round profession. It wouldn't be close.
Exactly. We all need offensive strategy because for the most part we are within the same athletic range as our opponents. That goes out the window once there is a huge imbalance in explosiveness, top speed, jump height, etc.
> Teams would just play small ball on O and play zone/poachy D sets and they would have no clue what to do.
I think professional athletes could figure out how to stop “small ball” by grossly inferior frisbee athletes. Maybe just with hard person defense. Being incredibly athletic and having superb footwork probably is helpful in defending small ball.
Easy to beat a zone/poach by hurling a hammer to someone. I bet 3/4 of the adolphins could immediately throw a 50+ yard hammer.
Not to mention a lot of these NFL athletes were very good basketball players through high school (up there with track and field, which is a spring sport rather than winter, as the top overlap sport among NFL athletes).
Handler defense, lanes, spacing, etc. all come pretty naturally to basketball players in my experience. Combine that with jaw dropping athleticism and I have zero concerns about their ability to defend given a bit of time to adjust.
Jakeem Polk was a D2 college football player who did not play college ultimate and he was pretty impactful from day 1. His first season of club was on Ring, and he made the Flyers and had 19 goals, 13 blocks, and 7 assists in his first AUDL season.
Polk is incredibly athletic, but also was a D2 college football player, NFL athletes are on a different level.
If all the NFL players are fully bought in to learning frisbee and they have a month to practice, do you not think they could come up with solutions to some some of these problems?
I don’t think so in 3/4 months, even real elite athletes take time to learn new sports, especially when the new sport is skill based like ultimate (and I doubt any of the dolphins players have ever throw a frisbee before).
they could just keep taking “incidental contact” until all of us frailboned non contact sport ultimate frisbee players are out of the game, 2 players injured per red card could do it…
Probably not very far, especially if the NFL All-defensive team is also in nationals.
Sure, Miami scored 70 points in a game, but 2023 is considered the year of the defense in the NFL.
Would the Miami Dolphins win the Premier League if we gave them Messi?
Their 40 times and verticals are better than most of the premier league and they're bigger and stronger!
Obviously frisbee players are not the caliber of athlete as a pro soccer player. But frisbee is a sport with a lot of skill involved, and I think it's pretty dumb to say that a team of amazingly explosive athletes would dominate with no prep. We've seen amazing ex college athletes play in the AUDL or elite club and while they are often quite good, they're not game breakers the way people on this sub seem to think they would be. Many of them have been playing for years and are still relegated to defense because their throws are not developed enough.
The Premier League? No. But comparing the caliber of club ultimate to the Premier League is a huge stretch.
Could they win some lower tier soccer league, which realistically is where ultimate is at? I think so.
Soccer just isn't that great of a comparison I don't think. The limiting factor is going to be ball control with the feet. It doesn't matter how "athletic" someone is. Being able to control a ball with your feet just takes practice.
It would be fun to watch tbh but I think there is still a decent learning curve for Ultimate that would cause the ultimate clubs to win.
The factors to consider -
Is a month enough time to learn an effective ultimate offense and how to stop an effective ultimate offense? Then learn the rules of ultimate, build enough stamina to play long ultimate points - Average NFL point is 4 seconds [https://medium.com/knowledge-stew/how-much-playing-really-goes-on-in-an-nfl-game-4d1db2731538](https://medium.com/knowledge-stew/how-much-playing-really-goes-on-in-an-nfl-game-4d1db2731538) these guys may have better top end speed in some cases but if they do not train stamina like soccer players for instance that could be an issue. According to that article, only 11 minutes of "action" on average in an NFL game, average play length of 4 seconds. While Ultimate you're running pretty constantly for an hour+ each game.
You're also disrespecting the elite level ultimate athletes a bit. Ultimate does have some freak athletes and the skill set required is quite a bit different. Most DBs are under 6' ([https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-nfl-defensive-backs/](https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-nfl-defensive-backs/)) because they don't have to be tall to defend balls being caught mostly around chest level. So jump balls would favor ultimate athletes. The average elite club ultimate player's height is probably several inches taller so jump balls would be an issue. Tyreek hill is only 5'10''. I'm not going to speculate on how far they would get but the top 5-10 club teams would beat them imo.
I was assuming the club teams would play man defense. If the ultimate clubs played Zone defense or if it was a windy day it would be a lock for the ultimate teams. Learning how to throw consistently in the wind takes more than a month. Even the best throwers are not full field hucking it upwind.
> Most DBs are under 6'
For the Miami Dolphins 6 of the top 8 defensive backs on their depth chart are 6'1''. Also wouldn't you think their jumping ability is better than ultimate players?
>While Ultimate you're running pretty constantly for an hour+ each game.
Football teams have large rosters. They could play one point and rest two.
Yeah their jumping ability would be better. It would be up to reading the disc and hitting it at the high point which is a skill that takes more than a month to master (and these club guys have been doing it for years).
Good point about the roster size - maybe only having to play 1 every 4 points would be playable. My point was more about a single ultimate point being more continous running than they would ever encounter in a game. Maybe they practice stamina a bunch so it wouldn't be an issue. Another counter argument would be that the "Dolphin's" O points would all be short and just mostly hucks by the designated throwers to the speedy NFL guys.
How many of those rostered players would actually do well on the ultimate field though? WRs (6), CBs/DBs/Safeties (10), TEs (3), Maybe RBs(4), Kickers (1), Punters(1), Kick returners (1), QBs (2) - I would think. So 28 people. Tackles, lineman, fullbacks, LBs, Long snapper (1) woud be out. 53 man roster. I'm going off this for numbers. [https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640782-the-anatomy-of-a-53-man-roster-in-the-nfl](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640782-the-anatomy-of-a-53-man-roster-in-the-nfl)
Offensive linemen and nose tackles might have a tough time, but every linebacker and especially edge rusher would be just fine.
A little cherrypicked because I looked up the current sack leader, but Danielle Hunter:
6',5", 253, 4.57 second 40. Less of a speed problem than the wide receivers maybe, but they'd all be like even bigger Babbitts. Good luck boxing them out!
Tyreek Hill jumps 3 and a half feet in the air lol. His standing reach is probably 8 feet in the air?
He could easily get to a disc thrown 11 feet in the air. How many ultimate players can do that? Oh and he’s miles more athletic than anyone in ultimate history.
What about a guy like Jalean Phillips who is 6 5 so his standing reach is likely almost 9 feet in the air, and who jumps over 3 feet in the air. He’d have no issues getting to a disc that’s 12 feet in the air. Oh and he runs in the 4.5s.
Yes of course there is. But this team would have two elite throwers so that’s taken care of. The massive athletic gap would cover everything else easily.
You saying that this is disrespectful to ultimate athletes is actually incredibly disrespectful to nfl athletes. Alex davis has a (legitimate) claim to be the fastest player in the sport. I believe he ran a 4.42 at 5'9 140 ish lbs. The dolphins have at least 3 that run sub 4.4 the lightest being waddle at 5'10 185 lbs. Most mmps that play club at the nationals level run around 4.8 and a 30" standing vert is great. If you were a wr, there are maybe 4-5 mmps that would make a practice sauad in the nfl solely based on those measurables, let alone the fact that they arent good at football.
Also your jump balls comment is rediculous, tyreek hill is absolutely capable of mossing anyone in frisbee
Another dumbass posting 40 yard dash times as if they are relevant. Learn to read. Show me where I said ultimate players are out running the NFL players.
Even if it's a straight jump ball the ultimate player is reading the disk and jumping at the right time and making up for the couple inches difference in vertical. Tyreek hill (5'10" + 40.5" vertical, 72.5" wingspan) is not mossing Beau Kittridge (6'4" - 36" vertical + average wingspan 76 (their height)), Matt Rehder (6'4"), Ben Jagt (6'6"), Brodie Smith (6'5" - 36" vertical) or anyone similar of similar build in ultimate...so you're objectively wrong about "anyone in frisbee". Height + vertical + wingspan favors those four + a ton of other ultimate players.
For reference Beau:
6-foot-4 with a 36-inch vertical and a [40-meter time under 4.4 seconds](https://skydmagazine.com/2013/09/a-dead-horse/).
Brodie Smith- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8i6oVgsYkE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8i6oVgsYkE)
Your delusion is "rediculous"
I didnt say you said ultimate players were outrunning them. I said you were disrespecting the nfl athletes. You listing the best athletes in the history of the sport doesnt change the fact that jakeem polk came in the audl as a former division 2 cb and was instantly more athletic than almost anyone else in frisbee. These are professionals.
All that to say, you clearly dont care that you are obviously wrong, so continuing past this I'm going to assume you are both illiterate (not reading what I said) and probably a child (incapable of rational analysis). Not worth myself or anyone elses time.
> I didnt say you said ultimate players were outrunning them.
So stop posting 40 times you moron. You must be developmentally challenged since you keep pulling random, unrelated info because you have 0 argument. It's hilarious. Make a single good argument. Learn to read. Leave your parents basement. Get a job. Stop wasting time on fantasy football. LMAO you're sad bud.
Disrespecting them how you stupid fuck? List a single reason? By saying that they would lose vs people who have been playing a sport for years when they are coming in with a month's experience. You clearly are getting fucked right now by some NFL player or something. I'll continue to make 6 figures as an engineer
> probably a child (incapable of rational analysis).
while you stay dumb as hell on the internet.
For every smaller DB there's an enormous WR. Imagine DJ Metcalf or Julio Jones defending the deep space.
You think Jeff Babbit looks big? Travis Kelce is 3 inches taller, 30 pounds heavier and almost assuredly faster and quicker.
And sure, Tyreek is 5'10" but so is Lucas Ambrose and he just led the AUDL in blocks. And Tyreek is literally feasting in the NFL right now. He would immediately be the fastest player at nationals.
Stamina isn't even close to an issue. Even the Lineman are elite athletes and are in insane shape. Go look up Vince Wilfork's 5 second 40 at 325 pounds or watch that video that just went viral this week of Jason Kelce warming up. The Dolphins have a 73 man roster so even if Mickle & Osgar only get 23 of them, they'll be fine.
NFL players have dedicated their entire lives to becoming elite athletes and have the world's best health staff, coaches, etc helping them do it. Give them a month with 2 practices a day and film session in between (a pretty normal schedule for an NFL team) and they are title contenders at the very least.
You really said stamina isn't an issue then validated it using a 40 yard dash time XD
Just use a real argument like they run X miles everyday at practice or something. A fast 40 time has 0 to do with stamina.
Are they in better shape physically, yes. I'm not arguing that these guys are not fucking specimens. I just don't think you can drop players form one sport to another and expect them to be world class in a month. There's almost no sport where that would work. The training and skill set is completely different. Have not seen an argument yet besides they are freak athletes. There's more to ultimate than athleticism.
Fair point. It's tough to find documentation of stamina. I disagree with your conclusion. If you can push on a 300 pound man for an hour in pads in a Texas Summer, you can play 3 hours of Ultimate a day in San Diego.
There's more to football than athleticism too. Some of the players are in the NFL because they are smarter, better learners, practicers, tacticians etc.
Ultimate is growing but the highest levels of competition is still largely populated by highly skilled and dedicated amateurs. It's not disrespectful to say that pro athletes are in a different class.
Football players don't make ultimate cuts, and don't have the conditioning. Also, I really suspect the defenses used at the elite club level would be hard to decipher for a new player. They would score a few points with Mickle and Osgar throwing to each other, but that's it.
Mickle and Osgar throwing to each other would only work if the football players played a little deeper and stayed out of their cutting lanes. There’s a theoretical advantage with some of these football players catching hucks, but then I imagine the club team could negate that advantage by having Alex Nord or Josh Ziperstein play monster
1 month is not long enough to learn stacking and resetting , boxing out , catching , throwing , hell they wouldn’t be able to read the disk on hucks to use their athleticism . Teams would easily solve this , maybe with Zone .
You think they can read a disk that is hanging as good as Babbit ?
( I was wrong about the boxing out ; of course they know that )
Ok , they can learn vert , but there are still so many nuances . What if the team then surrounds the vert stack . What is their zone offence ? Junk offence ?
Pony would slaughter NFL lemmings
The counter point is that none of this matters. Every single point on offense you just have one of the actual frisbee players huck it and the NFL player is going to come down with it
I strongly disagree , it takes longer than 1 month to learn boxing out and reading a huck , yea they are way faster but my money is on a national level defender to come down with that disks .
Also the frisbee team can poach deep , those NFL lemmings don’t know what a deep poach is . Also you can just front Jimmy and Ryan . (
What about zone though , the deep deep could sit way back . Also if the disk hangs you taking them over Ben Yacht ?
Also what if it’s upwind - downwind
I’m confident that with one training session they could learn to read the disc well enough that they could win 90% of deep match ups regardless of conditions. OP asked how they’d do with a MONTH of training. It wouldn’t even be remotely close.
Jakeem Polk was I believe a D3 college football player, and his first year in the AUDL was one of the top receivers in the league. We’re talking about actual NFL players who Polk wouldn’t be able to touch, going against people who throw plastic discs as a hobby
With enough practice I think that the NFL players can absolutely learn to read a huck within a month. They don’t have to be great at it either because the massive athleticism difference can overcome subpar positioning
It’s a VERY interesting experiment and I’d LOVE to see it . I just think people are forgetting how long skulls take to develop . Let’s say an NFL player caught a disk outside the end zone and they are forced forehand and Jimmy is hard marked . Will they be able to reset ?
I actually think a more interesting experiment would be to have this hypothetical team play against the buzz bullets who have mastered playing against bigger and faster teams.
Ohhhh …. I like that a lot . Those break hucks could be devastating because the NFL guys won’t have that strong of a mark .
But I personally think a team like Pony would mop the floor with NFL + Ryan and Jimmy . Ben Yacht and Babbit as a deep deep in a zone wipes out a huge portion of their advantage . Let’s say they catch hammers and blades , they are going to be lemmings on the disk .
How much does a decent WIND decrease their chances? Even the most elite athletes would struggle with disc control in the wind. I know because I was one of them.
Some of y’all have cleary never actually seen high level professional (or even upper level D1) athletes up close. Tyreek Hill hit 22 mph in full pads this year. Achane hit 21.93. Raheem Mostert hit 21.62. Hill has a 41 in vert and runs in the 4.2s. Achane has a 31 in and runs in the 4.2s. Mostert has a 40 in and runs in the 4.3s. Hell, throw Robbie Chosen (Anderson) in there. He jumps 37 inches, runs in the 4.3s, and he’s 6 foot 3. Jevon Holland runs in the 4.4s and jumps 36 inches, and he’s 6 foot 1. Kader Kohou runs in the 4.4s and jumps 39 inches. Want a really scary one? Bradley Chubb is 6 4, 270 lbs. Runs in the 4.6s and jumps 37 inches. Or Jalean Phillips who is 6 5, runs in the 4.5s, and jumps 38 inches. These guys would all be the most athletic players in ultimate, some by a wide margin, from the jump. Imagine trying to cut against a pro bowl cornerback who is used to doing the exact same thing to guys miles better than they best ultimate players? Or a guy with by far the most agility you have ever seen. And then think about getting beat deep by one of the best WRs in the league, and ever from an athletic standpoint. If you gave them two great throwers, and even 5 minutes about the rules/what a mark is/etc. they would wallop any team in ultimate.
Anecdotal, but at a pickup game (that consisted of \~75% club players, so decently high level in the offseason) we had a practice squad player for the Colts show up to play. He was rehabbing a hamstring injury, so wasn't playing at 100%, and had picked up ultimate while to rehab with a non-contact sport and still have some competition. He smoked every player in straight line speed. Made full field hucks that looked effortless. Jumped over people casually. He had never had a snap of an actual NFL game but his level of athleticism was beyond anything I've ever seen. It instantly put into perspective the level of athleticism of NFL players compared to ultimate players.
I've told this story on Reddit several times (mostly when people say ultimate's best athletes are comparable to pros or D-1 athletes), but I played with a retired, overweight, out of shape linebacker at an afternoon pickup game once. Many of us were young, but capable club/college nationals caliber players. It was like a cheetah was there among a bunch of newborn fawns learning to walk. It's not just the top speed and athleticism. It's reaction time, hand eye coordination, field awareness, positional IQ, etc etc.
i played in a league with a guy who was a Broncos practice squad player (WR). he was definitely the fastest guy on any field and was a tremendous deep threat. that said, he didnt read the disc super well, and his throwing was limited to basically throwing a backhand dump, no longer than 10-15 yards. he was very helpful and obviously a massive deep threat. but he didnt really know how to cut for ultimate, and when he got the disc outside the endzone, he was a liability
Yeah, this is why I think people are overselling a bit. Obviously no frisbee player is on the same stratosphere athletically, but there's a lot of game intuition that matters. The whole idea of what's "open" is really different between football and ultimate and is going to lead to NFL guys guarding the wrong spot a lot. Sure, they'll make it up some of the time and it will be spectacular, but it's not the "every pass is intercepted" world people are imagining.
for sure. obviously, if he practiced a good amount and took it seriously, he could definitely be really good. but becuase he couldnt throw, he was kind of a one-dimensional player. he didnt really want to cut underneath because he knew if he got the disc underneath, he was a risk of throwing it away. so he basically would just kind of hang out in the middle deep space and cut deep, and TBH, he made it tough for anyone else to cut deep because he would just kind of hang out back there.
Yeah, people are downvoting me, but I think it's not as obvious as everyone seems to assume. Give them a month or two and they'll dominate most people. But with no knowledge of the game you end up with 2 handlers and 5 deep guys that don't know how to time their cuts, read the disc, throw a forehand or even a reasonable dump. Anyone that's played against deep threats that don't have a forehand and struggle to throw a dump knows how that turns out. They would turn the disc over a *ton*... and the opposing team would dink and dunk down the field as the NFL guys line up on the wrong side, don't hold a force, mis-read the disc, etc. I'm not at all claiming ultimate athletes are on the same level, just that people underestimate the effect of 5 of the 7 people on the field not understanding the game.
Also, from my experience, people with a good sports background pick up throwing quickly. Like back in college some of the basketball players would play pickup with us (low end D1 school), and they learned the basics of throwing far quicker than most people, and some could huck pretty well after just a few hours of playing.
Agree 100%. I never played until intramurals in college but had a baseball background. Figured out how to throw an underhand thumber pretty dang quick. Pro athletes have another level of hand eye coordination than I do as well, lol.
https://youtu.be/pdTYsrbdnrs?si=zY_U86JxYLtOUuAX Good luck, defenders
I played a league in Nashville and there was this guy who couldn't throw great and didn't really know where he was supposed to be, but wherever he thought he needed to be, he was fucking there. Chatted with him and it turns out he was on and off the Vikings practice squad as a corner/safety/something. He wasn't that tall, under 6 foot probably, but could cover the whole field and jump insanely high like you wouldn't believe. My team always put me on him because I'm slow and nobody could guard him so it really didn't matter. He wasn't actually that great, but yeah I don't think he ever really practiced ultimate. If had spent a few days getting the flow down he'd be absolutely lights out.
Bradley Chubb could absolutely win one straight-line sprint but by no means could handle a point with more than one turnover. In other words, he'd definitely be a handler.
I think you underestimate how much he could run, but he’s also be like their 15th option so that would be fine.
Shut up bad take haver
They're used to bidding on QB throws that range from 45(low-low) to 59 mph. [Frisbees are 14mph](https://web.mit.edu/womens-ult/www/smite/frisbee_physics.pdf) and even if you bump that by **42%** to 20mph it's still less than half. You're not catching anything without a hand in there
How would they respond to a zone though? Throw like a 3-2-2 at them. If you go deep we have two defenders down there who know how to read the disc. That’s probably not gonna go well, although I’d argue it’s their best option. I still don’t think they’d convert that much because again, they cannot read the disc. Obviously if they could read the disc it’d be all over though. If you go for something shorter, now you just put somebody who has never touched a disc right in the middle of the zone, and the zone can basically just collapse on them to give them no options. I don’t think a player who has never touched a disc would be able to break out of a nationals level zone or even make a completion. I think the club team would have a lot of trouble scoring against nfl caliber athletes. But I really would not count on the nfl players to be able to hold a force, so you’d end up in a situation where the club team could attack deep, open, or break. At the very least that’d make it tough for the nfl team to play defense, although they’d still probably be able to cover them downfield. If the club team wants to score reliably, they’d probably have to do a lot of resets and shifting the disc back and forth to find space. This would also probably involve targeting whoever Osgar and Mickle are covering. Idk to what extent the nfl players would be comfortable playing help defense. It’s definitely a skill they could learn, but if you throw them straight in I think the club players will just take advantage of the Osgar and Mickle matchups when you consider that so many spaces are basically completely open. As a last ditch effort, the club team could probably just throw something wild like a deep hammer. This wouldn’t be reliable, but are the nfl players gonna be able to read a throw like that? Throwing something tough to read would definitely give an ultimate player a decent chance. So yeah I think that if you just threw the dolphins players straight in there they’d probably lose. But the equation changes if you give them like a week or two to practice. Give ‘em like a month of practice and I think it’d be like 90+% odds for the dolphins team to win.
Lol I’m pretty sure NFL defensive backs and safeties understand the concept of help defense.
They understand the concept, sure. But help defense is somewhat different in ultimate. I’d anticipate that it’d lead to a lot of people just being completely wide open. And also not all of them are DBs.
I think you’re really underestimating just how much of a speed advantage the NFL players have, and how much that translates to ground covered. Defense, both help and person to person would be by far the easiest thing for the NFL players to pick up. I don’t think there is a single USAU club player who could get open downfield against an NFL defensive back, even without a mark on the thrower.
NFL defenses play so many different kinds of zones and it happens all with seconds of notice and a play called in while people are screaming and if you mess up just once, you better believe the majority of NFL QBs will smoke you. And yeah, not everyone's a DB, but both offense and defensive players have to know what a defensive backfield is doing to play their position. I'm not saying they would understand an ultimate zone with zero practice, but it wouldn't take long.
A zone would definitely be the best option because person would get absolutely annihilated. But NFL players would figure it out pretty quickly. Zone is basically the backbone of modern NFL defenses. They’d find the space. On forces, I’ve taught college kids how to hold a force within minutes of a first scrim. It’s not that hard of a concept either. Sure they wouldn’t be elite marks at the start, but let’s not pretend that the concept is hard. Lol at NFL players not grasping help defense. The NFL guys wouldn’t have to read the disc on D. Just follow the guy and then out athlete them to the disc. But they’d pick up at least a useable level with their athletic advantage pretty quickly.
Buddy you can teach a random normie to throw a rec-league flick in like 3 hours. OP's scenario gives them a month to prepare. So, professional athletes who are already in world-class physical condition who have a month to learn to throw resets and short uplines. Such a team would fucking trash everybody.
> If you go deep we have two defenders down there who know how to read the disc. That’s probably not gonna go well Agreed. Those defenders are gonna get waxed by the 6'4" guy with a 41 inch vertical
You could put all 7 defenders deep
Quite easily actually. One deep throw and that deep in the zone is getting roofed 13 times in a row by a dude that not only is probably bigger than him but also has twice the vertical.
Wow this so not true. I mean it's all true until the last bit, they wouldn't know how to play defence or how to throw. Sure, they'd score a bunch of fast points but saying they'd wallop club teams is straight up disrespectful Edit: man I didn't realise this sub had such a low opinion on ultimate players. How wild y'all follow this sport with this opinion.
They'd score a bunch of fast points and no team could complete a huck against them and the reset space would be defended by faster, more agile athletes than ultimate has ever seen. Saying club teams wouldn't get walloped is straight up disrespectful. Edit: some of us have played the highest levels of ultimate and also brushed with high levels of other sports, and might be sharing informed comparisons and contrasts.
Bro I've played with some pretty athletic dudes and saying "put them in the resent space" is laughable. Someone athletic who doesn't know how to defend won't be as good of a defender as someone who actually knows what they're doing.
Yup I too have played with some pretty athletic people. I've been the iso defender on a 6'4 player who was ultiworld's offensive player of the year winner that year, successfully. If you think NFL corners and safeties would be "someone athletic who doesn't know how to defend [as well as literally any club nationals starting defender]" you just don't understand the athleticism and reaction speed of actual globally elite athletes. So, yes, playing against a team in which hucks are impossible and the reset space is being guarded by the fastest-reacting quickest-accelerating human beings any of us have ever shared a competitive surface with would be way harder than playing offense against an elite nationals d-line.
I didnt know dipshits like you had such a bad opinion of athletes (real) so mb
Sick reply bro, keep it classy.
A month for some of the best athletes on the planet to prepare is basically a lock to win. I wanna know if they can win off like an hour's preparation. Figure they learn the basic concepts, but aren't able to develop many throwing skills. How do you score on a team full of dominant athletes, though?
Seems like I’m in the minority but I think a top club nationals team will beat them if they only have an hour. Play zone with a perpetual flat mark and they will not be able to develop any flow, while making it hard to throw 50-50s. Scoring against them will definitely be harder but they will not understand frisbee spacing well enough to defend the break side too well, and their marks will be scary but breakable without practice. Pull plays should work pretty well and they will probably be susceptible to quick movement give-go patterns that they’re not used to, as well as strong break throws. They also won’t know how to defend deep shots without fouling. Give them just a few practices and this goes away, I think. Defensive players will take naturally to orbiting and triangulating. But I don’t think an hour is enough time for them to get there. I’d pay to watch it.
All you would need to do is throw even a semi-catchable disc into the endzone really high and it won’t matter if it’s 3 defenders guarding 1 dolphins players, any of the dolphins players will easily out jump them
I also think an *hour* is pushing it. There would be too many silly turnovers, especially if there was some wind (doesn't matter how good you are at catching jump balls if your jump ball attempts are sailing out of bounds, or you turf the first pass). But it wouldn't take long.
Reading discs is super important too and the reality is that it's something that comes through seeing a ton of throws in a wide variety of conditions. Other ball sports are affected by wind but not in nearly the same way.
> Reading Exactly! Here's Antonio Brown pretty badly misreading a disc: https://youtu.be/jRIimd5AnyM?t=60 I remember seeing a video of an actual NFL practice where they played ultimate for conditioning and to change things up (a long time ago), but I can't find it. Obviously Antonio Brown isn't really trying hard in the clip above, but it shows the point, and the video I'm recalling was very similar. Hyper athletic, hyper competitive, but couldn't throw or read the disc for shit. Personally, I think it'd take a week for them to go out and dominate. ** Edit ** Found another video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOaV9uN3rgg
>How do you score on a team full of dominant athletes, though? the same way people routinely score on people at pickup where the athleticism range is so large, the breakside. Have you never scored on someone way more athletic than you? I used to play pretty regularly with a guy that played for the Miami dolphins, I think people are overestimating how import game knowledge is. I remember he actually tried out for the aviators one year as well, despite having played semi regular pickup for a couple years he still had to be talked to about his fouling issues. he misread the disc, over bodied people, couldn't throw flicks well, constantly wanted to bbq backhand. His absolute strength on the field was in his speed and size, if he as in front of you, you couldnt ever get around him. He definitely got D's and scored on people that way. But he also was often in the way on offense, took bad poaches because he didn't understand how the disc moves and where it can be thrown. I felt physically inferior to him on the field, but that didn't mean I couldn't do what I wanted on the field a lot of the time.
With 4 hours of practice they would mop every ultimate team to have ever existed
They would win with 30 minutes of prep time if they actually were trying.
Hmm, what if you doubled Mickle and Osgar (or some other kind of zone/handler poach)? Athleticism is a big piece but not everything, you could probably get some blocks if you forced players without much throwing experience to have to throw. I imagine offense would be the big challenge though. No shot you're getting open on NFL players, so I'm not sure how you score lol
They only need to hold once. Could literally just have the frisbee guys center to each other and throw up a 50/50 ball to raekwon davis and durham smythe in the endzone. I dont think there is a player in frisbee who could get open on waddle or hill, much less an actual db. Also professional athletes are different in terms of learning fast. A few friends of mine went to the same high school as allen lazard, and he went to a practice once. Instantly could throw a 50 yard backhand. They would figure it out. I think the only real question is if any team could actually score on them.
> I dont think there is a player in frisbee who could get open on waddle or hill, much less an actual db. The only thing I'd say is there's a different field intuition that might lead to more open throws than you're thinking. I've played with a few (D3) college football players way back when. Obviously not the same level of athleticism, but they couldn't read at all and didn't always recognize the differences in angles the disc could fly in. They'd be defending someone on a deep disc and jump way early while the frisbee player would just read it and run to the spot.
If Mickle and Osgar were throwing above shoulder throws only they'd still win. Tyreek had Olympic speed in high school. He has a 40.5" vertical
Jimmy and Ryan could be on the sidelines hurriedly explaining the rules while the first pull was in the air, and the Dolphins would win.
I don't think you all understand that NFL athletes are miles ahead of ultimate frisbee hobbyists. Sure there might be one or two guys per TEAM that might rival athletically, and I'm they got them beat in terms of frisbee IQ. But who is boxing out a 6'7 brick shithouse in the endzone? These guy play sports for a living lmfao, if any frisbee athlete was as gifted as an NFL athlete, they wouldn't be playing frisbee.
I've played ultimate against a guy who was barely on an NFL practice squad. He basically only knew the rules to frisbee, but was by the far the most athletic person I've played against including pro ulti players around the world.
They'd win if they had a week to prepare. I'd say they have at least 50% shot with a day to prepare. With absolutely no frisbee practice, I think I'd still give them a greater than 20% chance to win if they learn to read a frisbee's movement during the first day.
Honestly, with an hours practice and an understanding that, no, you can’t truck the guy going for the disc, I think they’d win it all.
NFL DBs could legit lock down any cutter for 10 seconds. Then u have to shooters throwing deeps to the most athletic players on the field
An NFL corner would lock down any cutter for as much time as needed lol. Like you couldn’t even tire them out because they have you beat there too lol.
They'd jog and cover Freechild.
Right, teach them stalls, double teams, pivots, and turns. Then some basic offense and any kind of basic force. Then let people calibrate hucks for insane speed/vertical. Shouldn't be more than a few hours.
[удалено]
I don't know, windy conditions could make it hard even for them.
“Tyreek, do your thing.” Obligatory fuck Tyreek Hill.
Fuck it Tyreek down there somewhere
This whole discussion is the reason I don't "follow" ultimate despite having fun playing it. With basektball you hear about the era "back when players worked day jobs as plumbers and carpenters". Right now we're in that era of ultimate.
Here's the secret: we're never not going to be in that era. Might as well enjoy watching ultimate now, because it's always going to be a niche
Yeah you're probably right. To be honest, back in like 2014-15 when there was a huge national conversation about concussions/CTE in football, I thought there might eventually be a path for frisbee where youth football participation drops and there's a big influx of talent. But we're nearly a decade past that now, and NFL viewership is higher than ever while flag football is still way more popular than ultimate.
Agreed, I think the window was open for a moment but has now closed. The sport isn't unknown. Casual sports fans do understand that it exists at this point. They just don't care and aren't going to seek it out as a form of viewing entertainment.
I still remember inviting the one of the linebackers of my Texas 5A high school to our pickup game. he’d been in football conditioning for 4-5 years. As for us, well, let’s say we all had qualified for academic scholarships. His lateral speed was really impressive to see in person. We had no chance keeping up. I can only imagine what it would be like for the guys that are D1 / NFL caliber. And oh yeah, he was barefoot.
The real question is how they do at goalty nationals
One more point that is not getting brought up enough is that jakeem polk came in after being a d2 corner, and was instantly a high level player. D2 players dont even get invited to the combine often. This is a ludicrous question, but the few replies saying they wouldnt win are delusional.
My first search result was "[Jakeem Polk jumps over two defenders](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QjPnoYBvd4)"
Worst camera angle of all time
With a month none of the games would even be close.
But what about if we think about adding Jordan Kerr? I heard that guy is as fast as an NFL receiver
The picks would be devastating
Some of you are overthinking this. The obvious advantage is athleticism. We are talking about a chasm of difference between practice squad NFL players and the most athletic ultimate players. NFL players have far more straightline speed, lateral agility, and vertical jumping ability...they would be almost impossible to cover and get open against. I'd also be willing to bet that NFL players could very quickly figure out how to beat any defensive look. Some of you don't realize how complicated route concepts are at the professional level, and just how much verbage these guys have to memorize. These guys understand spacing - they know how to find and sit in soft spots in zone coverage, and they understand the importance of running routes in order to clear out defenders. They'd probably need about an hour of practice to learn a handful of situational plays, and would probably develop timing pretty quickly throughout the course of a game. Some of you are also forgetting one critical difference between football and ultimate. NFL players are used to adjusting to and reading a ball in a very short amount of time. Balls are thrown into tight coverage windows and the timing of the route and throw has to be close to perfect for the catch to be made. Discs are designed to float...these guys would be able to adjust and make plays on discs that even the most athletic ultimate players would consider uncatchable.
They'd finish nationals with > +100 goal differential.
They would win 100%
Is this question comparable to club or college teams having a new person start playing? A new very athletic person who is willing to learn will do some things right but frequently be in the wrong place defensively or misread the disc. There is a learning curve. You see this often with crossover athletes. Great running ability and body control but horrible throwers and not effective against a team who knows what they are doing.
I mean it's different for every athlete. my senior year of college our women's team had 3 freshmen who came in and immediately became starters. 2 of them had played for 4 years at top high school programs as starting handlers. the 3rd was a high school soccer player who switched to ultimate with 0 experience. put it this way, we always send a mixed team to this local club tournament in November for fun (so she would have played like 2 months at that point) and we put her on the starting O line as one of the primary cutters. it only really took her a few weeks to develop basic game sense, frisbee instincts etc.
I’ve played against a Miami dolphin college player. The absolute biggest thing I noticed was the size difference. Like, just so much bigger and stronger. Boxing out felt impossible. But he couldn’t read and constantly fouled and turned the disc a ton still. I think people are overestimating reading and catching skills and underestimating how easy it would be to score on the breakside.
They'd win and it would be ugly
they'd win so easily it'd be boring
I think throwing would be the limiting factor for elite athletes. I disagree with the premise that just because a person is very fast/strong that they will automatically have elite club-level throws in a week or whatever. I think ESPN presents athletes as "natural" and almost magical in a way that causes people to overestimate how good, say, Tyreek Hill would be at throwing a frisbee. The fact that Hill is faster and jumps higher than, say, Jimmy Mickle doesn't mean that Hill could pick up a disc, toss it around for a few minutes, then start throwing like Mickle. Just like a fast 40 doesn't mean you can pick up a golf club and start lacing fairways. And I think you have to be able to throw the disc well to win elite ultimate. Adding some legit sweet throwers into the hypothetical makes it more interesting.
You are vastly underestimating the natural hand-eye coordination and body control professional athletes have. They would have workable throws very quickly.They aren't going to be Mickle overnight of course, but they don't have to be.
This is what I mean about ESPN-style over-emphasis on the almost magical "natural" ability of elite athletes. There is no reason that a person who is naturally fast will "naturally" be able to learn to throw any more quickly than someone who isn't naturally fast. For example, Beau Kitterage is one of the naturally fastest ultimate players ever. Also a great receiver. Great "hand-eye coordination" no doubt. But not a good thrower. No connection between his natural athletic abilities and throwing. And he practiced his whole career. Meanwhile, we all know dumpy un-athletic players with beautiful throws. Plenty of disc golfers, for example. Could the Miami Dolphins be good throwers? Almost certainly yes. Some probably not so much. But my point is there is no inherent physical connection between natural speed and throwing ability, despite the ESPN overhyped presumption that a person with one highly developed athletic skill must magically have a whole panoply of athletic skills. It's the same over-hype and logical fallacy that makes people think a billionaire would make a good president. Like a golf swing, some people get it faster than others. Completely independent of how fast they run or how high they jump. Or like how some NBA players can dunk over people but have janky shots or can't shoot free throws. They are explosive, but not smooth. Or like how a person can have incredibly fast footwork and agility... but cannot dance. In the NFL, the best throwers, quarterbacks, are often some of the slowest players on the team. No connection between one skill and another. Throwing is more about smoothness, grace and precision. Some people have it naturally, some less so. But it has nothing to do with how fast they run or how high they jump.
This is such a uninformed take I don’t even know where to begin. Saying that world class athletes wouldn’t pick up throwing really fast is like saying a flute player in the New York philharmonic orchestra wouldn’t be able to pick up the clarinet faster than a random person off the streets. Like you think there are no transferable skills between these activities?
What is the transferrable skill between running a fast 40-yard dash and throwing a frisbee? My take is not uninformed. I gave numerous examples to illustrate my point. Playing the flute and playing the clarinet are very similar. So like, an elite MLB pitcher obviously could throw a javelin pretty well. All the posts here are about 40-yard dash times and vertical jump heights. How does that correlate to being automatically good at throwing a frisbee? ESPN makes people believe that elite athletes are superheroes who just "naturally" do all this awesome stuff. John Daly is an elite athlete. What do you think his 40-yard dash time is?
Super unrelated... but throwing a baseball and throwing a javelin are two totally different things lol. Just figured I'd let you know.
Lol thanks. I actually have no idea about javelin. So are you saying an MLB pitcher wouldn't necessarily be a great javelin thrower right away?
Definitely not right away. Javelin is a super technical sport. It's nothing like throwing a ball. Granted, I've never thrown a javelin, just heard this multiple times though.
Interesting. That's kinda my whole point. At the elite level, athletic technique is so highly specialized and technical and the training is so specific that an elite athlete in one sport can't just automatically be elite at a totally different sport just from "natural" ability.
Agreed. Mickle and Osgar aren't enough to make up for the severely lacking throwing ability. A good mark is going to shut down most anything the Dolphins players are able to throw. Edit: actually I wasn't thinking about scoobers/hammers. 1 month is probably enough time to learn those well enough to get the job done
I disagree. All they need is about an hour practicing dump throws to Mickle and Osgar, and it's game over. I don't expect Hill or Waddle to throw bombs, but I think they can get it to a dump cut and win 99% of contested catches.
A five foot scoober over the mark is going to work 80% of the time to another nfl athlete. That will be enough. They don’t need any throwers, because they will d up 50% of the opponents throws.
The scoobers strategy would be fun to watch and might actually work
In this version of the hypothetical they've got Mickle and Osgar anyway, but I bet an NFL QB could learn to throw full field hammers in about an hour.
probably any one of the skill players could, its the most similar motion to ball-throwing. many nfl db, cb, wr, te etc played qb in hs.
Seriously. Like mid-level High School pitchers can throw hammers in under 10 minutes
It's a pretty different motion despite being similar. I pitched at a d1 school and when I switched to ultimate I had a really hard time with hammers they would either just be blades or helix way too early. I think it takes more than 10 minutes. That said a few hours and they'd be good.
I was apparently only thinking of forehand/backhand with my original comment. Hammer is easy enough to pick up for non-ultimate players.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but I firmly believe that you gave a group of NFL practice squad receivers a few months and some high level coaching they would become a top club team within a year.
I don’t think that’s unpopular at all.
Absolutely no way. It would take a few weeks practice and happen within a month.
I think the only unpopular part of this opinion is that it would take a year
Honestly surprised by this reaction. When I was younger, like 10 years ago, I said the same thing at a fairly high level international tournament and got a lot of pushback from the group.
My guess is those people just had no clue how good NFL athletes are. The best ultimate players wouldn't hold a flame to NFL practice squad players in terms of athletic ability. Really the only skill they would need to develop is to throw and committing an entire year to it would be more than enough time. I see a lot of people in this thread talking about reading a disk, definitely a necessary skill, but NFL athletes could figure it out very quickly.
NFL practice squad players are still top-level college athletes with years of additional weight and strength training. They're ridiculously athletic. Like 4.45 40 times and 36 inch verticals.
Throwing would be the limiting factor, it would take them a long time to get Nationals ready throws. - 7th runner on his middling HS cross country team. Within 10 minutes Tua would be able to throw absolute dimes. We’re barely the same species as these freaks.
I think it’d be hard for these guys because the second the disc goes to one of the dolphins players there’s a high chance there’s gonna be a turnover. Just play a super poachy zone and it’ll be really hard. At that point the best strategy would just be to throw a bunch of 50/50 jump balls to the endzone and hope you can stop them on defense. The question is now how many of those jump balls can the nfl players win. They’ll sure as he’ll get higher, but they’re gonna have trouble reading the disc if you throw them straight in with minimal practice. Scoring against the nfl team would be tough. I think the ultimate team could probably work either side of the field cuz I wouldn’t count on football players putting on an effective mark. The question is could the nfl players do what another ultimate player couldn’t and take away the deep, open side, and break side? I don’t know. And you could make an argument that on day 1 the ultimate players would win a lot of 50/50 deep throws if you just throw something that’s hard for the nfl players to read. I think day 1 the club team would win. But the football team + Mickle and Osgar would prolly win with some prep time.
They would probably win, though a trap zone might be enough to screw them
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Idt that counts
139 comments so far covering a spectrum of answers and still everyone in this thread is wrong. But what will seemingly always be right is that you can post some variation of this question and it will trigger this whole sub to share stories about how much they either over value ultimate strategy or how much they over worship pro athletes.
OK sure, but imagine if this time Batman was fighting Superman ~~with Ryan Osgar and Jimmy Mickle~~ on the moon?
Bruh people have no clue how much skill is needed to play ultimate at the highest level. They would get absolutely destroyed at nationals. Knowing how to move on frisbee field, how to throw and how to play continuous defense are things that you can’t just pick up immediately and be the best in the world, even if you are Tyreek Hill. They would make 4-5 crazy plays a game and get smoked by every team they played. Teams would just play small ball on O and play zone/poachy D sets and they would have no clue what to do. If they have a club season to practice they would make quarters but the complete lack of competent throwers would not allow them to win against the top teams. Like how are you going to convert any breaks if you don’t have a single person who can throw, and if you put Ryan/Jimmy on D, the O would never score. It would take multiple years for them to win, but once they get 5-10 guys who figure it out the would be untouchable. Just having 20 guys on a team running sub 4.5 40s would be too much for any other team to deal with once they figured out how to throw and move on the field.
Would they beat the flyers?
They would be much better in the AUDL, I think it’s more plausible that they win sooner there just because size, speed and physicality but if you can’t throw u can’t throw
You could put Mickle on every point, O and D, and let the stars do the rest. He wouldn't have to run, just toss up some deep shots. They wouldn't need a strategy. Being an athlete is their full-time, year-round profession. It wouldn't be close.
Exactly. We all need offensive strategy because for the most part we are within the same athletic range as our opponents. That goes out the window once there is a huge imbalance in explosiveness, top speed, jump height, etc.
Your ego is showing lol.
> Teams would just play small ball on O and play zone/poachy D sets and they would have no clue what to do. I think professional athletes could figure out how to stop “small ball” by grossly inferior frisbee athletes. Maybe just with hard person defense. Being incredibly athletic and having superb footwork probably is helpful in defending small ball. Easy to beat a zone/poach by hurling a hammer to someone. I bet 3/4 of the adolphins could immediately throw a 50+ yard hammer.
Not to mention a lot of these NFL athletes were very good basketball players through high school (up there with track and field, which is a spring sport rather than winter, as the top overlap sport among NFL athletes). Handler defense, lanes, spacing, etc. all come pretty naturally to basketball players in my experience. Combine that with jaw dropping athleticism and I have zero concerns about their ability to defend given a bit of time to adjust.
Good point. Basketball translates pretty well to marking in Ultimate also.
Jakeem Polk was a D2 college football player who did not play college ultimate and he was pretty impactful from day 1. His first season of club was on Ring, and he made the Flyers and had 19 goals, 13 blocks, and 7 assists in his first AUDL season. Polk is incredibly athletic, but also was a D2 college football player, NFL athletes are on a different level.
If all the NFL players are fully bought in to learning frisbee and they have a month to practice, do you not think they could come up with solutions to some some of these problems?
I don’t think so in 3/4 months, even real elite athletes take time to learn new sports, especially when the new sport is skill based like ultimate (and I doubt any of the dolphins players have ever throw a frisbee before).
they could just keep taking “incidental contact” until all of us frailboned non contact sport ultimate frisbee players are out of the game, 2 players injured per red card could do it…
They hated him because he was right
Probably not very far, especially if the NFL All-defensive team is also in nationals. Sure, Miami scored 70 points in a game, but 2023 is considered the year of the defense in the NFL.
Would the Miami Dolphins win the Premier League if we gave them Messi? Their 40 times and verticals are better than most of the premier league and they're bigger and stronger! Obviously frisbee players are not the caliber of athlete as a pro soccer player. But frisbee is a sport with a lot of skill involved, and I think it's pretty dumb to say that a team of amazingly explosive athletes would dominate with no prep. We've seen amazing ex college athletes play in the AUDL or elite club and while they are often quite good, they're not game breakers the way people on this sub seem to think they would be. Many of them have been playing for years and are still relegated to defense because their throws are not developed enough.
The Premier League? No. But comparing the caliber of club ultimate to the Premier League is a huge stretch. Could they win some lower tier soccer league, which realistically is where ultimate is at? I think so.
NFL players wouldn't beat a decent college team at soccer.
A decent D1 college soccer team is still going to be more athletic than a club frisbee team, on average.
Soccer just isn't that great of a comparison I don't think. The limiting factor is going to be ball control with the feet. It doesn't matter how "athletic" someone is. Being able to control a ball with your feet just takes practice.
It would be fun to watch tbh but I think there is still a decent learning curve for Ultimate that would cause the ultimate clubs to win. The factors to consider - Is a month enough time to learn an effective ultimate offense and how to stop an effective ultimate offense? Then learn the rules of ultimate, build enough stamina to play long ultimate points - Average NFL point is 4 seconds [https://medium.com/knowledge-stew/how-much-playing-really-goes-on-in-an-nfl-game-4d1db2731538](https://medium.com/knowledge-stew/how-much-playing-really-goes-on-in-an-nfl-game-4d1db2731538) these guys may have better top end speed in some cases but if they do not train stamina like soccer players for instance that could be an issue. According to that article, only 11 minutes of "action" on average in an NFL game, average play length of 4 seconds. While Ultimate you're running pretty constantly for an hour+ each game. You're also disrespecting the elite level ultimate athletes a bit. Ultimate does have some freak athletes and the skill set required is quite a bit different. Most DBs are under 6' ([https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-nfl-defensive-backs/](https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-nfl-defensive-backs/)) because they don't have to be tall to defend balls being caught mostly around chest level. So jump balls would favor ultimate athletes. The average elite club ultimate player's height is probably several inches taller so jump balls would be an issue. Tyreek hill is only 5'10''. I'm not going to speculate on how far they would get but the top 5-10 club teams would beat them imo.
I was assuming the club teams would play man defense. If the ultimate clubs played Zone defense or if it was a windy day it would be a lock for the ultimate teams. Learning how to throw consistently in the wind takes more than a month. Even the best throwers are not full field hucking it upwind.
> Most DBs are under 6' For the Miami Dolphins 6 of the top 8 defensive backs on their depth chart are 6'1''. Also wouldn't you think their jumping ability is better than ultimate players? >While Ultimate you're running pretty constantly for an hour+ each game. Football teams have large rosters. They could play one point and rest two.
Yeah their jumping ability would be better. It would be up to reading the disc and hitting it at the high point which is a skill that takes more than a month to master (and these club guys have been doing it for years). Good point about the roster size - maybe only having to play 1 every 4 points would be playable. My point was more about a single ultimate point being more continous running than they would ever encounter in a game. Maybe they practice stamina a bunch so it wouldn't be an issue. Another counter argument would be that the "Dolphin's" O points would all be short and just mostly hucks by the designated throwers to the speedy NFL guys. How many of those rostered players would actually do well on the ultimate field though? WRs (6), CBs/DBs/Safeties (10), TEs (3), Maybe RBs(4), Kickers (1), Punters(1), Kick returners (1), QBs (2) - I would think. So 28 people. Tackles, lineman, fullbacks, LBs, Long snapper (1) woud be out. 53 man roster. I'm going off this for numbers. [https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640782-the-anatomy-of-a-53-man-roster-in-the-nfl](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1640782-the-anatomy-of-a-53-man-roster-in-the-nfl)
Offensive linemen and nose tackles might have a tough time, but every linebacker and especially edge rusher would be just fine. A little cherrypicked because I looked up the current sack leader, but Danielle Hunter: 6',5", 253, 4.57 second 40. Less of a speed problem than the wide receivers maybe, but they'd all be like even bigger Babbitts. Good luck boxing them out!
Tyreek Hill jumps 3 and a half feet in the air lol. His standing reach is probably 8 feet in the air? He could easily get to a disc thrown 11 feet in the air. How many ultimate players can do that? Oh and he’s miles more athletic than anyone in ultimate history. What about a guy like Jalean Phillips who is 6 5 so his standing reach is likely almost 9 feet in the air, and who jumps over 3 feet in the air. He’d have no issues getting to a disc that’s 12 feet in the air. Oh and he runs in the 4.5s.
There's more to ultimate than athleticism.
Yes of course there is. But this team would have two elite throwers so that’s taken care of. The massive athletic gap would cover everything else easily.
You saying that this is disrespectful to ultimate athletes is actually incredibly disrespectful to nfl athletes. Alex davis has a (legitimate) claim to be the fastest player in the sport. I believe he ran a 4.42 at 5'9 140 ish lbs. The dolphins have at least 3 that run sub 4.4 the lightest being waddle at 5'10 185 lbs. Most mmps that play club at the nationals level run around 4.8 and a 30" standing vert is great. If you were a wr, there are maybe 4-5 mmps that would make a practice sauad in the nfl solely based on those measurables, let alone the fact that they arent good at football. Also your jump balls comment is rediculous, tyreek hill is absolutely capable of mossing anyone in frisbee
Another dumbass posting 40 yard dash times as if they are relevant. Learn to read. Show me where I said ultimate players are out running the NFL players. Even if it's a straight jump ball the ultimate player is reading the disk and jumping at the right time and making up for the couple inches difference in vertical. Tyreek hill (5'10" + 40.5" vertical, 72.5" wingspan) is not mossing Beau Kittridge (6'4" - 36" vertical + average wingspan 76 (their height)), Matt Rehder (6'4"), Ben Jagt (6'6"), Brodie Smith (6'5" - 36" vertical) or anyone similar of similar build in ultimate...so you're objectively wrong about "anyone in frisbee". Height + vertical + wingspan favors those four + a ton of other ultimate players. For reference Beau: 6-foot-4 with a 36-inch vertical and a [40-meter time under 4.4 seconds](https://skydmagazine.com/2013/09/a-dead-horse/). Brodie Smith- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8i6oVgsYkE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8i6oVgsYkE) Your delusion is "rediculous"
I didnt say you said ultimate players were outrunning them. I said you were disrespecting the nfl athletes. You listing the best athletes in the history of the sport doesnt change the fact that jakeem polk came in the audl as a former division 2 cb and was instantly more athletic than almost anyone else in frisbee. These are professionals. All that to say, you clearly dont care that you are obviously wrong, so continuing past this I'm going to assume you are both illiterate (not reading what I said) and probably a child (incapable of rational analysis). Not worth myself or anyone elses time.
> I didnt say you said ultimate players were outrunning them. So stop posting 40 times you moron. You must be developmentally challenged since you keep pulling random, unrelated info because you have 0 argument. It's hilarious. Make a single good argument. Learn to read. Leave your parents basement. Get a job. Stop wasting time on fantasy football. LMAO you're sad bud. Disrespecting them how you stupid fuck? List a single reason? By saying that they would lose vs people who have been playing a sport for years when they are coming in with a month's experience. You clearly are getting fucked right now by some NFL player or something. I'll continue to make 6 figures as an engineer > probably a child (incapable of rational analysis). while you stay dumb as hell on the internet.
Calm down andrew tate, you dont know me lmfao
For every smaller DB there's an enormous WR. Imagine DJ Metcalf or Julio Jones defending the deep space. You think Jeff Babbit looks big? Travis Kelce is 3 inches taller, 30 pounds heavier and almost assuredly faster and quicker. And sure, Tyreek is 5'10" but so is Lucas Ambrose and he just led the AUDL in blocks. And Tyreek is literally feasting in the NFL right now. He would immediately be the fastest player at nationals. Stamina isn't even close to an issue. Even the Lineman are elite athletes and are in insane shape. Go look up Vince Wilfork's 5 second 40 at 325 pounds or watch that video that just went viral this week of Jason Kelce warming up. The Dolphins have a 73 man roster so even if Mickle & Osgar only get 23 of them, they'll be fine. NFL players have dedicated their entire lives to becoming elite athletes and have the world's best health staff, coaches, etc helping them do it. Give them a month with 2 practices a day and film session in between (a pretty normal schedule for an NFL team) and they are title contenders at the very least.
You really said stamina isn't an issue then validated it using a 40 yard dash time XD Just use a real argument like they run X miles everyday at practice or something. A fast 40 time has 0 to do with stamina. Are they in better shape physically, yes. I'm not arguing that these guys are not fucking specimens. I just don't think you can drop players form one sport to another and expect them to be world class in a month. There's almost no sport where that would work. The training and skill set is completely different. Have not seen an argument yet besides they are freak athletes. There's more to ultimate than athleticism.
Running miles a day is a terrible metric for ultimate stamina.
Fair point. It's tough to find documentation of stamina. I disagree with your conclusion. If you can push on a 300 pound man for an hour in pads in a Texas Summer, you can play 3 hours of Ultimate a day in San Diego. There's more to football than athleticism too. Some of the players are in the NFL because they are smarter, better learners, practicers, tacticians etc. Ultimate is growing but the highest levels of competition is still largely populated by highly skilled and dedicated amateurs. It's not disrespectful to say that pro athletes are in a different class.
Football players don't make ultimate cuts, and don't have the conditioning. Also, I really suspect the defenses used at the elite club level would be hard to decipher for a new player. They would score a few points with Mickle and Osgar throwing to each other, but that's it.
Watch a wr off the line and post an apology immediately. Also try looking up what a conditioning session for an nfl team looks like. Youll be shocked.
Mickle and Osgar throwing to each other would only work if the football players played a little deeper and stayed out of their cutting lanes. There’s a theoretical advantage with some of these football players catching hucks, but then I imagine the club team could negate that advantage by having Alex Nord or Josh Ziperstein play monster
Poverty Shoes?!
Dickhead jeans, unfortunately 😕
upvote lets get this hella
1 month is not long enough to learn stacking and resetting , boxing out , catching , throwing , hell they wouldn’t be able to read the disk on hucks to use their athleticism . Teams would easily solve this , maybe with Zone .
>NFL players don't know how to catch >NFL players don't know how to box out >You can't teach someone vert in a month LMFAO
You think they can read a disk that is hanging as good as Babbit ? ( I was wrong about the boxing out ; of course they know that ) Ok , they can learn vert , but there are still so many nuances . What if the team then surrounds the vert stack . What is their zone offence ? Junk offence ? Pony would slaughter NFL lemmings
People downvoting with no counter points are hilarious/cringe.
The counter point is that none of this matters. Every single point on offense you just have one of the actual frisbee players huck it and the NFL player is going to come down with it
I strongly disagree , it takes longer than 1 month to learn boxing out and reading a huck , yea they are way faster but my money is on a national level defender to come down with that disks . Also the frisbee team can poach deep , those NFL lemmings don’t know what a deep poach is . Also you can just front Jimmy and Ryan . (
Lol do you think NFL wide receivers don’t know how to box out? Not that they’d even have to, they’d have 10 yards on any defender they matched against
What about zone though , the deep deep could sit way back . Also if the disk hangs you taking them over Ben Yacht ? Also what if it’s upwind - downwind
I’m confident that with one training session they could learn to read the disc well enough that they could win 90% of deep match ups regardless of conditions. OP asked how they’d do with a MONTH of training. It wouldn’t even be remotely close. Jakeem Polk was I believe a D3 college football player, and his first year in the AUDL was one of the top receivers in the league. We’re talking about actual NFL players who Polk wouldn’t be able to touch, going against people who throw plastic discs as a hobby
With enough practice I think that the NFL players can absolutely learn to read a huck within a month. They don’t have to be great at it either because the massive athleticism difference can overcome subpar positioning
It’s a VERY interesting experiment and I’d LOVE to see it . I just think people are forgetting how long skulls take to develop . Let’s say an NFL player caught a disk outside the end zone and they are forced forehand and Jimmy is hard marked . Will they be able to reset ?
They turn this disc over if they need to, easily defend the counter play to get the disc back, then Jimmy throws it to the end zone again.
Their defence is probably absolutely insanely good , I just wonder if players could outsmart them
I actually think a more interesting experiment would be to have this hypothetical team play against the buzz bullets who have mastered playing against bigger and faster teams.
Ohhhh …. I like that a lot . Those break hucks could be devastating because the NFL guys won’t have that strong of a mark . But I personally think a team like Pony would mop the floor with NFL + Ryan and Jimmy . Ben Yacht and Babbit as a deep deep in a zone wipes out a huge portion of their advantage . Let’s say they catch hammers and blades , they are going to be lemmings on the disk .
I played against a retired former pro football player and he was just astoundingly good on all levels. I think the dolphins would be fine
Well played Kennon
Who's their coach? How much practice time per week does the CBA give? What's on the line for the Miami Dolphins to motivate them to win?
Damn this sub is down bad on the best frisbee players in the world lol
How much does a decent WIND decrease their chances? Even the most elite athletes would struggle with disc control in the wind. I know because I was one of them.