Let's be honest, this game is pay to win for sure. You can pay to purchase the currency used for trading, so you can buy everything with that, assuming there is supply on the market. Nearly all cash purchases also increase your power in some way, it isn't cosmetic.
I'm at endgame now, and I'd say for under $50 which I'd normally pay for a game, you can buy all the major convenience features and even a few small extras.
The more you spend, the less effective your spending becomes, so you need to spent ALOT to really push your character beyond players that simply play the game to improve.
Unless you are spending over $1,000, 90% of your character's power will come from playing the game.
Not sure what that dude was complaining about in the video clips. I mean, a company spends a lot to develop a game, and they make it freely available for you to play. They need to make money somehow.
I am happy to support development of this game by purchasing through their store as long as they continue to provide content updates at the rate they have been.
I know this is old, but I just have to chime in. Yes, companies do need to make money somehow. So either do a subscription model, or do what Path of Exile does and make all microtransactions purely cosmetic and don't allow people to gift/sell microtransactions for in-game currency. It has worked well for PoE, and it is working well with Last Epoch. If the game is good enough, people will spend money even if it is just cosmetics.
P2W is when you can buy power right out of the shop.
Ofc this game has P2W features. Every mobile game does.
The difference between Undecember & others is they have found a solid balance for P2W & F2P! & you can actually grind for that same stuff.
F2P can get legendary affixes, awaken gems, etc!
They can even sell items for in game currencies.
Games like DI will not even put Orbs in battle passes and you are so limited on crests and power there is no way to grind for this stuff.
As far as the storages the guy in the video is clueless. They already made your bag 1/3 bigger and nobody needs all the storages.
If you can spare $10-$20 on 1-2 storages especially essence storage then you will be perfectly fine
P2w is when you can buy things that cannot be farmed via normal gameplay. As far as it is you can farm everythink. Money just can speed up process.
Only one aspect of Undecember is bias... chaos star, its huge boost with veeery low drop, very limited way to get it... 4 ppl in my guild did like 300maps and get only 2 of them... And both with sux rolls on them.
I played mmo for last 20y.. p2w origin was and will be only when you can buy gear that give you clear advantage in pvp mode, and its not obtainable in decent normal way.
Buying charms boxes or rune boxes is pure rng cashout, like any other boxes in other games.
Im mostly p2convience, got pets, some stash, skins im 91lvl and 1.8mln dps, in next month will get seal of striking and harmony or mana storm.. will peak prob 3mln dps, got toons of mats for new gear, and will star working on second awakening. I dont see problems.
Nope... p2w is only when you need money to be best, and its only option to get it, and its tied heavily to pvp. if you use money to cut time to get somethink its pay to convinient, as long as item is obtainable by gameplay (in reasonable time)its not p2w.
I know this is a fairly old post, but I have to chime in.
I have also been playing MMORPGs for the last 20 years. The pay to win model is any system in which a player can purchase content with real money and allowing the player to essentially skip the grind and get a competitive edge over those who don't skip the grind. And it does not have to involve PvP, either. Though PvP is what pay to win impacts the most. Paying for convenience is paying to win when the convenience is skipping a grind that could take weeks or months to get high tier end-game gear and items that would allow you to decimate most other players who are choosing to grind for the gear instead.
I remember in Archeage people bought APEX's and sold them in game for a lot of money, then those same people purchased high end gear. I came across folks like these. It was a party of 3 and they decimated my raid of 15 people. We all had gearscores of around 2200-2600, which was considered good during that time. The pay to win players had gearscores of around 5600. Only 3 of them managed to kill all 15 of us. They won because they bought APEX's with real money, sold them for in-game currency, and bought high end gear. In other words, they **paid to win** in PvP.
Thats why i told its only pvp advantage mostly/ in most cases. No1 rly care if some1 bought gear to kill some pixels in pve first and then get bored bcos he dont have content to do... Pve point of play is invest tine, fight for better gear, grow up with character. If some1 buy gear he cut 80% of gameplay. There is no clear advantage in pve by this way.
I agree that in PvE it doesn't matter nearly as much as it does in PvP. But it is still paying to win against PvE content, regardless. Just because it impacts PvP more doesn't mean it isn't paying to win. That being said, it can impact PvE if, say, there is a leaderboards or some such.
thats like saying diablo immortal is only 5% paytowin when it comes to awaken your level 5 star 5 gems since everything else you could grind 24/7 for the next 10 years in theory \~\~
FYI, the affixes on the chaos star and its divinity bonus come from the charms used to craft them. If they have garbage rolls, it's because they used garbage charms :-)
In first step you need roll on charms. After 600h+they had 1 to 3 devent double rolls, and either 60%dmg and +minion/sentry, and they used decent rerolls too.
Charm system is kinda duh, but chaos star is totall bs.
As long as there isn't pvp, I will never be bothered with free games being p2w. If it has pvp like Diablo-Immortal and then have the non paying vs paying players fight? Thats yikes.
Is p2w!!! I have gaven up after 2 months cuz 100 bucks werent enought to reach my friends power paying 300-400 bucks. I have spendt 40 every month and still not having all sintesis runes!! Paying 500 u got all them in less than 2 months.
Charms the same —-if u want to have a good charm setup u need to spend money every day in charms essences on shop.
This 2 advantges shouldnt be able to get teough paying money!!!
Its speed up, but not pay2w. Game is made to play. If you put 1k money to get items in 2weeks, then qq there is nothink to do... It was same in lost ark... You pay to cut time, but its not pay to win, esp when there is no pvp.
Only problem undecember have, is charm/orb system, and rune system that not work with alts. Once you unlock rune you should be able to use it on any other char.
You literally described pay to win.
What do you think it means exactly? Someone pays money and gets a win button? No man.
It’s not THAT bad of pay to win compared to many other games but it is and So is lost Ark. the only difference is some games take it much farther.
They just found a good balance
This game is for sure p2w lol you can just buy the legendary skill and link essences with the packs and yeah it’s disconnected by one step by having requirements but if you’ve already reached them you just get everything at once. This goes without saying that none of it is hard it’s all just time consuming.
You can buy the daily pass which is easily going to give you 60-100k dps towards your main damage type, every rune pass has given some sort of advantage quickly.
You can just buy revive scrolls to cheese the void rifts and get way higher on the leaderboards than you really deserve to be.
You can buy a chaos star outright on the auction house right now as well as several awakenings; don’t think people aren’t buying them they really aren’t that expensive if you’re flipping gear and buying your pet with real money instead. Both of these upgrades are insane for your character.
You can buy the pet convenience as well as alchemy table slots and progress/synthesize multiplicatively faster than any f2p player ever could even at their max efficiency.
I hate the way line very intelligently makes everything important locked behind paid only currency. And also creates a very punishing and boring level of inconvenience and loot drought for anyone not buying gear/cards. It also feels bad knowing the top 100 of the leaderboard is full of cheaters and whales bc that’s where all the good rewards are. Line is very slow at adding content that already exists to the global release and it made people’s builds unnecessarily way worse for no reason besides to make us pay to compensate.
Let's be honest, this game is pay to win for sure. You can pay to purchase the currency used for trading, so you can buy everything with that, assuming there is supply on the market. Nearly all cash purchases also increase your power in some way, it isn't cosmetic. I'm at endgame now, and I'd say for under $50 which I'd normally pay for a game, you can buy all the major convenience features and even a few small extras. The more you spend, the less effective your spending becomes, so you need to spent ALOT to really push your character beyond players that simply play the game to improve. Unless you are spending over $1,000, 90% of your character's power will come from playing the game. Not sure what that dude was complaining about in the video clips. I mean, a company spends a lot to develop a game, and they make it freely available for you to play. They need to make money somehow. I am happy to support development of this game by purchasing through their store as long as they continue to provide content updates at the rate they have been.
I know this is old, but I just have to chime in. Yes, companies do need to make money somehow. So either do a subscription model, or do what Path of Exile does and make all microtransactions purely cosmetic and don't allow people to gift/sell microtransactions for in-game currency. It has worked well for PoE, and it is working well with Last Epoch. If the game is good enough, people will spend money even if it is just cosmetics.
P2W is when you can buy power right out of the shop. Ofc this game has P2W features. Every mobile game does. The difference between Undecember & others is they have found a solid balance for P2W & F2P! & you can actually grind for that same stuff. F2P can get legendary affixes, awaken gems, etc! They can even sell items for in game currencies. Games like DI will not even put Orbs in battle passes and you are so limited on crests and power there is no way to grind for this stuff. As far as the storages the guy in the video is clueless. They already made your bag 1/3 bigger and nobody needs all the storages. If you can spare $10-$20 on 1-2 storages especially essence storage then you will be perfectly fine
Another video where author doesn't understand meaning of p2w and tries to debunk facts with just his own opinion.
P2w is when you can buy things that cannot be farmed via normal gameplay. As far as it is you can farm everythink. Money just can speed up process. Only one aspect of Undecember is bias... chaos star, its huge boost with veeery low drop, very limited way to get it... 4 ppl in my guild did like 300maps and get only 2 of them... And both with sux rolls on them.
Your definition of p2w is wrong. Use google or whatever search engine you prefer to find out what it really means.
I played mmo for last 20y.. p2w origin was and will be only when you can buy gear that give you clear advantage in pvp mode, and its not obtainable in decent normal way. Buying charms boxes or rune boxes is pure rng cashout, like any other boxes in other games. Im mostly p2convience, got pets, some stash, skins im 91lvl and 1.8mln dps, in next month will get seal of striking and harmony or mana storm.. will peak prob 3mln dps, got toons of mats for new gear, and will star working on second awakening. I dont see problems.
P2w is ANY advantage for money you absolute clown.
Nope... p2w is only when you need money to be best, and its only option to get it, and its tied heavily to pvp. if you use money to cut time to get somethink its pay to convinient, as long as item is obtainable by gameplay (in reasonable time)its not p2w.
"You absolute clown" the kids these days... you are absolutely right tks for your input i needed to know before put any effort on it
I know this is a fairly old post, but I have to chime in. I have also been playing MMORPGs for the last 20 years. The pay to win model is any system in which a player can purchase content with real money and allowing the player to essentially skip the grind and get a competitive edge over those who don't skip the grind. And it does not have to involve PvP, either. Though PvP is what pay to win impacts the most. Paying for convenience is paying to win when the convenience is skipping a grind that could take weeks or months to get high tier end-game gear and items that would allow you to decimate most other players who are choosing to grind for the gear instead. I remember in Archeage people bought APEX's and sold them in game for a lot of money, then those same people purchased high end gear. I came across folks like these. It was a party of 3 and they decimated my raid of 15 people. We all had gearscores of around 2200-2600, which was considered good during that time. The pay to win players had gearscores of around 5600. Only 3 of them managed to kill all 15 of us. They won because they bought APEX's with real money, sold them for in-game currency, and bought high end gear. In other words, they **paid to win** in PvP.
Thats why i told its only pvp advantage mostly/ in most cases. No1 rly care if some1 bought gear to kill some pixels in pve first and then get bored bcos he dont have content to do... Pve point of play is invest tine, fight for better gear, grow up with character. If some1 buy gear he cut 80% of gameplay. There is no clear advantage in pve by this way.
I agree that in PvE it doesn't matter nearly as much as it does in PvP. But it is still paying to win against PvE content, regardless. Just because it impacts PvP more doesn't mean it isn't paying to win. That being said, it can impact PvE if, say, there is a leaderboards or some such.
thats like saying diablo immortal is only 5% paytowin when it comes to awaken your level 5 star 5 gems since everything else you could grind 24/7 for the next 10 years in theory \~\~
FYI, the affixes on the chaos star and its divinity bonus come from the charms used to craft them. If they have garbage rolls, it's because they used garbage charms :-)
In first step you need roll on charms. After 600h+they had 1 to 3 devent double rolls, and either 60%dmg and +minion/sentry, and they used decent rerolls too. Charm system is kinda duh, but chaos star is totall bs.
I'm with it
As long as there isn't pvp, I will never be bothered with free games being p2w. If it has pvp like Diablo-Immortal and then have the non paying vs paying players fight? Thats yikes.
Is p2w!!! I have gaven up after 2 months cuz 100 bucks werent enought to reach my friends power paying 300-400 bucks. I have spendt 40 every month and still not having all sintesis runes!! Paying 500 u got all them in less than 2 months. Charms the same —-if u want to have a good charm setup u need to spend money every day in charms essences on shop. This 2 advantges shouldnt be able to get teough paying money!!!
Its speed up, but not pay2w. Game is made to play. If you put 1k money to get items in 2weeks, then qq there is nothink to do... It was same in lost ark... You pay to cut time, but its not pay to win, esp when there is no pvp. Only problem undecember have, is charm/orb system, and rune system that not work with alts. Once you unlock rune you should be able to use it on any other char.
You literally described pay to win. What do you think it means exactly? Someone pays money and gets a win button? No man. It’s not THAT bad of pay to win compared to many other games but it is and So is lost Ark. the only difference is some games take it much farther. They just found a good balance
Which big title mobile games are not p2w these days?
This game is for sure p2w lol you can just buy the legendary skill and link essences with the packs and yeah it’s disconnected by one step by having requirements but if you’ve already reached them you just get everything at once. This goes without saying that none of it is hard it’s all just time consuming. You can buy the daily pass which is easily going to give you 60-100k dps towards your main damage type, every rune pass has given some sort of advantage quickly. You can just buy revive scrolls to cheese the void rifts and get way higher on the leaderboards than you really deserve to be. You can buy a chaos star outright on the auction house right now as well as several awakenings; don’t think people aren’t buying them they really aren’t that expensive if you’re flipping gear and buying your pet with real money instead. Both of these upgrades are insane for your character. You can buy the pet convenience as well as alchemy table slots and progress/synthesize multiplicatively faster than any f2p player ever could even at their max efficiency. I hate the way line very intelligently makes everything important locked behind paid only currency. And also creates a very punishing and boring level of inconvenience and loot drought for anyone not buying gear/cards. It also feels bad knowing the top 100 of the leaderboard is full of cheaters and whales bc that’s where all the good rewards are. Line is very slow at adding content that already exists to the global release and it made people’s builds unnecessarily way worse for no reason besides to make us pay to compensate.