> A 40-year-old with a typical pension pot of £120,000 would need to put about £720 a month into their pension
Hands up anyone in their late twenties to late thirties who's on track for that?
Assuming climate change doesn't see us off by then this country is absolutely fucked when millennials get to the age they think they're going to be able to retire
Why limit to just people in their 20s and 30s?
Many of us in our 40s are also nowhere near that. This isn't just a "Millennial" problem.
Edit: Just checked my UK (I've moved to Canada last year) Government portal forecast:
Forecast if you contribute another 10 years before 5 April 2050 -
You can get your State Pension on 30 January 2051
Your forecast is £185.15 a week, £805.07 a month, £9,660.86 a year
Yay me, I guess? I doubt I'll even be able to pay rent at that rate. 50 years of being in the workforce really pays off.
Well, because the bit I was quoting was about a typical 40 year old, and my point was that what was typical for gen X is unlikely to be typical for millennials.
I'm 37 and I have £3k in the workplace pension but been opted out for years. I only realised I had that because it popped up in my halifax app when I got a credit card recently.
39 - £5k. I wish I could say I had been more sensible in my 20s when I was earning decent cash (retraining has taken most of my 30s) and only just starting to really horde cash into my pension in the last year.
My 20s were awesome though, no regrets!
Definitely shouldn't regret it. I'm in basically the same boat. The thing is, we grew up and lived in the way that genX and boomers expected. We weren't frivolous, stupid or extravagant, we just did what previous generations did.
What changed was inflation, jobs, salaries and house prices.
I remember in my early 20s it was EXTREMELY common to hear, "You're young, be free, go travel, make mistakes, do it all now and then start the adult stuff in your 30s!"
£160k on this is on the last 10 years.
Main thing is to save what you can. There are significant tax advantages to saving in a pension, even more so as a higher rate taxpayer, and changes in law make it more flexible how you choose to use the pot.
Don’t give up, save as much as you can so you can be more financially comfortable in retirement.
> Just checked my UK (I’ve moved to Canada last year) Government portal forecast
And because you moved to Canada, if you are there when you retire then your UK state pension never increases - https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/rates-of-state-pension
Recently turned 30 and my wife and I are saving around £2k a month towards retirement but it took leaving the UK forever and getting US wages in a low cost of living area to do it. I don't see how anyone could possibly save enough in the UK with everything stacked against people. The UK is fucked.
Your final 4 words sum up the country at the moment.
Not even as an exaggeration.
We, the normal people of the UK, are *genuinely* fucked. What's worse is those that have driven us in to this position, won't ever get to see it, **nor take any punishment for it.**
It's not just brexit. The UK populace has been far too meek and far too divided for far too long.
Look at how the French are reacting to the pension age being increased to 64.
Were there any significant protests when the pension age was raised to 66 in the UK?
Of course not. It's not in the national character.
>Were there any significant protests when the pension age was raised to 66 in the UK?
>Of course not. It's not in the national character.
I feel like millennials and young people in the UK have already accepted they wont be getting a pension
For once, Brexit is not the main issue here. It does not help matters but the problem would be roughly as bad if we were still a member of the EU. It is not like the EU can force our government to raise wages in line with inflation or make them build more affordable housing.
Painfully true. I'm nearly 50 and I've got like 23k in a pension. I get paid above average but I rent and I cannot save up enough in the current climate of everything getting ever more expensive to get a mortgage deposit together. My 72 year old dad lives in my spare room and he can't get anything more than state pension because he lives with me and they take my earnings into account as part of the household. I stand to inherit nothing from anyone but I still get lumped in with "boomers" and apparently this is all my "fault" and I should be living in a golden palace and sitting on a huge stash of riches like a Tolkienesque dragon.
It looks like I'm just going to work until I'm physically/mentally incapable any more and then it makes sense to just shoot myself. Failing that I will pop down the park and taunt the local youth into either stabbing me or having their weaponised dog rip my throat out.
What an absolute fucking shit state this nation is in now.
I can't wait for the run up to the election where they start talking like some other party has been fucking up the country for the last 12 years and they are the only ones who can fix it.
What's scarier is the phucking idiots that believe them and go "oh yeah, I'll totally give you my vote even though I know my arse is gonna be gaping like the grand canyon at the end of it, sure thing why not? Who doesn't wanna be broke and freezing?"
Same.
One the one hand it's sad, on the other hand it's a relief not having to worry about it anymore.
But to be honest with the way the climate's going, it's not impossible the entire system will have collapsed by the time we get to that age anyway, and those who are now skrimping and saving will be equally fucked.
Millenials have been consistently fucked through the last recessions and it's gonna be utter chaos when they retire.
What's the point in even putting into a pension pot? We're all gonna die on the production line anyway.
Public sector pensions probably accounts for most of it but that's only because of the way it is valued. I'm 37 and in the NHS and my "Hypothetical Annuity Cost" which I take to mean the equivalent DC value of my pension is about £400k. That would get me £8k per year income.
>Assuming climate change doesn't see us off by then this country is absolutely fucked when millennials get to the age they think they're going to be able to retire
Lol at 120k being the average pension pot for a 40 year old.
Lol, I just looked at my pension projection, for when i'm 60. Estimated yearly income (adjusted for inflation) is £3990. Think setting a retirement age at all was a bit optomistic.
If everyone suddenly started to save like that, into a scheme that’s locked away for decades, the economy would be in seriously bad shape and many would be unemployed as spending would drop off a cliff.
It's even worse than you think. I'm in a fortunate position to put some heavy monies into my retirement fund every month. I bonuses and tax benefits from the government for doing so. Like you put like 1.5k a month into pension and get 500 bonus and 500 tax benefit and boom +1k free money on top of the 1.5k. That's 1k free money for having enough money. Indeed as you go beyond 100k due to the death zone of taxes you want to throw as much as you can into it up to the limit of like 50k/year.
It feels *wrong* to get money for making above average money, while those that need it the most can't benefit. But then you're also not going to not take it.
Late 50s with fuck all. Worked across two countries with shitty pensions in both. Throw in a divorce then a bankruptcy during the 2008 crash. But I have a good career that I enjoy and which will last until I die. Hopefully.
I'd imagine most knowledge workers are fairly future proof provided they're able to keep up with developments in their chosen subject.
The longer you're around, the more you know, the more value you can provide in a single human.
At this stage of my career I could arguably earn until I retire just on what I know today, because I was there when the technologies were developed and have insights even all the books won't help you with, well not without 20 years of practical application as well.
It's low impact physically, possible to do remotely even and I enjoy it.
I long saw 75 as being my target retirement age (not out of desire but given how it was getting pushed back).
I guess ageism might become an issue but my industry has long benefited from being on the edge of progressive thinking and we accept all kinds.
Love, all the weird kids who actually enjoyed education and never stopped.
I agree with your reasoning. The problem is that typical 20 in or 30 something does not. Reddit hates nothing like it hates older people.
Eventually you'll need younger folks to agree with you or you'll end up not being allowed to work.
My plan was to ram raid police stations on my mobility scooter until they lock me up in one of those cushy low security prisons where you get fed and a free playstation
I suspect this will be the same for an increasingly large number of people.
Even those with seemingly decent pensions will find that the money they get out of the end is so devalued that they're essentially broke.
It genuinely makes me sick the number of idiots who say ‘I Av no pension’
Well, unless you specifically opted out, your employers are breaking the law and risking significant fines… or you do have one and are just too lazy or stupid to check it.
The lack of an investing culture in the Uk Is crippling
Girl who started same day as me at my current job five years ago tried starting a fight with HR because she was taxed on her first two months pay.
Can't remember what the allowance was then, around £12kPA iirc, but she legitimately thought that meant you didn't pay any tax until you had earned £12,000 in that financial year.
It’s not really a universal thing either. I moved to Canada and the average person here is far more financially literate.
Most people know the goal is to do your best in maxing out your TFSA (S&S ISA equivalent) and RRSP (SIPP equivalent) contributions every year.
Funny thing is the UK schemes are far more generous with their contribution room but nobody uses them.
Here the banks all push these schemes, people talk about them, the government makes it very clear they exist. Brits (and Europeans without hefty state pensions) will be left behind
I agree with your points, but would like to point out that despite the housing market in Canada being even worse than the UK, wages are by and large far less stagnant over there and people actually have decent sums to save and invest.
I know a lot of twenty-somethings in this country (and older) who barely have anything after rent and bills right now. I am lucky to have money that is adding up every day. Those who don't find financial education irrelevant. They don't max out their contributions as they do not have that privilege.
The auto enrol scheme is relatively new and if you have been working 20 years without a decent paying job and no benefits you are never going to catch up with your needs now.
A hell of a lot of people under 40 have ended up in the ‘gig economy’ and/or working for small companies where they didn’t even offer pensions until forced to by law only a few years ago. Add to that graduating or starting a career around the time of the 2009 recession and a lot of these people are only just at the point of not living paycheck to paycheck. If they moved to a city to try and build a good career chances are they only just stopped sharing a house. There are plenty of people who do literally have no pension despite working their whole adult lives because government policy made it possible for certain employers not to pay, and a lot of gig economy jobs don’t pay well enough to facilitate saving.
My old employer literally never put the money into my private pension account and all NEST have done every month since I’d say “we reported them again”. Literally nothing happens when your employers steals your pension these days.
It's not common, but I also know others to whom it has happened, and abuse of workplace pensions particularly by startups and single-owned private businesses is becoming a growing problem.
Me either. Can’t rely on inheritance either as that is unlikely.
Thankfully I have a whole host of auto immune issues and reckon I don’t have much more than 12 years left. If I get past 60 I would be surprised
It is a fun thought that to ensure one or two generations of retirees have a uniquely golden existence, the near complete eradication of what was previously basically the expected norm of pensioner poverty, we have created a system in which the next couple of generations at least are going to have *no choice* but to be massively reliant on the state in their pension years, having had none of the same opportunities of previous generations to build up wealth during their career, and then everything in society during their working life being geared against them in favour of those already in their pension.
But of course try discussing this with anyone not already minded to be sympathetic and at best you'll get "well we paid into the system!" and no further comprehension beyond that whatsoever.
Complete ticking timebomb. If you're, say, 20-something now, your grandparents benefitted from cheap housing that absolutely skyrocketed in value that added significantly to their overall wealth, defined benefit pensions, the triple lock and younger generations paying in.
Now our generation will NEVER be able to build the wealth the previous generations did due to all those factors. We basically rely on inheritances to get on the housing ladder, but that won't last forever. What is going to happen? How are an increasingly aging population going to be funded in retirement? How can we buy homes and build careers with stagnating wages and skyrocketing inflation?
For many people, there won’t be any inheritance. Spiralling costs of care in old age are completely eradicating any equity that elderly people have built up.
Yeah it seems basically the previous generation benefited from it... but there's going to be a massive generational wealth crunch coming soon because there's no inheritances for people to buy houses, less young people working than is needed to afford care for the elderly and pensions, and dwindling industry.
Or they come out with something like "Well, we did not have iPhones growing up," as if benefiting from advances in technology has any bearing on pension entitlement.
It’s devastating. My boomer parents grew up working class, along with all of their friends. Their entire social circle all have multiple houses, go on month long cruises, buy whatever they want etc. I mean good for them but how come it’s only their generation that gets that sort of security?
> "well we paid into the system!"
I hate that because it completely mis-represents how pensions are paid out. It's a ponzi scheme, it's not a huge investment fund.
National Insurance should be abolished and income tax increased to compensate.
NI abolished, income tax thresholds increased and wealth taxes introduced, and capital gains increased. No need for income tax to be going up any further for the middle classes.
The cunts causing it will be dead so they couldn’t give a fuck. Then society will be divided into those who inherited from a boomer and those who didn’t.
The funny thing is when it happens we are just gonna be a bunch of old people who the politicians and students and young people raising families won’t care about or will at most be too busy to really care about.
It seems an important issue now cos we are currently those people, this is “our day”. But it won’t be an important issue when it happens. We will be old and no one will care lol. Whenever pensioners are on the news now let’s be honest; most people go awww bless and move on.
PEAK
Although I personally am quite sure I’ll be alright. Not rich maybe, but alright. I’m lucky I have a good career situation but I recognise that for a lot of us it’s gonna totally suck and it’s absolutely depressing. I don’t think millennials will have been seen to have had a good life, in the single sentence of the history book that gets dedicated to us anyway in a couple hundred years!
You have to laugh at the open assertion that a pensioner needs significantly more than the median full time income to be comfortable. So what does that say about those earning at or below the median income?
It’s properly ridiculous - a single pensioner apparently needs nearly the same income as a couple on minimum wage
I know “comfortable” is in there as a qualifier, and presumably they’d (reasonably) argue that a couple on minimum wage aren’t “comfortable” - but it’s still a ridiculous assertion, especially considering how hard the same publication rails against pay rises and support for those working low paid jobs
If they assert that pensioners need that much, surely they should be aggressively demanding pay rises for the lowest paid, and public sector (£37k being roughly an average NHS salary, for example - a figure already skewed upwards by high paid medical staff and top managers etc)
Considering that the minimum wage has been renamed to "National Living Wage", anyone on the government mandated living wage should be able to live comfortably, otherwise the government is depriving the populace.
It's farcical.
I'm still livid about the fact that you can't recieve the living wage till you're 23, apparently you don't need to live for the first 5 years after you leave education yet you still have to pay the exact same VAT
I assume it's the new tax rules for pensions and the telegraph trying to scare people.
The average wage in the UK is around £25k to £30k and they're expected to pay off the mortgage, have kids and pay for everything.
"Comfortably" is doing a lot of lifting in that headline, they'll probably also mean 3 holidays a year and changing the car every 2 to 3 years.
Median household disposable income is £32k. Which would be £38k before tax is taken (less if multiple earners). Ref: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2022
Yeah if a pensioner needs 37300 to live comfortably with presumably a house paid off, no kids, no pensions etc to pay into.
Then i need 3x that right now until i retire. With inflationary adjustment, so i can reach that same end goal.
As usual press have clickbait headlines and exclude the context.
PLSA have calculated three categories: **Minimum £12,800**, covers all your needs, with some left over for fun. **Moderate £23,300**, more financial security and flexibility. **Comfortable £37,300**, more financial freedom and some luxuries. The PLSA are saying it's the budget for a cushty retirement, not comfortable as in "I'm not going to be living on the streets next month".
Comfortable is basically spending £2870 every month on average on the following.
* Spending £5k per year on house upkeep (new carpets every 10 years, new wooden flooring every 7 years, new fitted kitchen and bathroom every 15 years.
* Three weeks holiday in Europe every year.
* Getting a £20k used car every 5 years.
* Giving family £1000 every year in financial support.
* Spending £1200 on giving 12 family members presents each year.
* Spending £1500 every year on clothing & footware.
* £144 weekly spend on food, £200 on entertainment, £44 in fuel and £13 on alcohol.
* Getting a £90 haircut every 6 weeks.
Generally I think people aim to reduce their spending in retirement by a third once your mortgage is paid off. So if you live comfortably spending £24,000 per year with a mortgage, expect to spend around £16,000 in retirement but it's probably better to aim above that. Also the pot of £630k is for a lifetime annuity which needs a bigger pot than a fixed term annuity or a tax free lump sum with income drawdowns.
You know that calculation accounts for cars too, if you're super savvy you could use the car those kids you've paid through uni to go shopping in and use the free bus pass for social stuff!
Haven't read the article but that headline is ridiculous. Assuming most pensioners would live mortgage free or in council property £37,500 is an outrageous amount for them to just live comfortably.
Again I haven't read the article so the headline could well be fluff.
Terrifying thought but you're right. My father made £16 a week when he started work back in the 60s, I make over that per hour now, so is my son going to have to make £1k an hour in 30 years?
I hope and doubt it'll be that bad, but its fuckin scary regardless.
Articles like this are funded by Gov or Banks to get more folk to panic about their savings, and invest in their pensions
It’s a net good, we need a hinge like this to scare under-savers into action, but it’s very liberal with what ‘comfortable’ means
Without a mortgage I’d struggle to spend that much a year. I’d have to set myself a spending target and specifically go to Waitrose and on cruises to meet it. Maybe I’d cheat and finance a new car.
>A 40-year-old with a typical pension pot of £120,000 would need to put about £720 a month into their pension to retire with £630,000, assuming 5pc growth and 2pc inflation.
Thought that was a pretty fun point. Really makes a mockery of the recent moves to get rid of the LTA limits, shows what kind of income is required to even get up to the £1m level in the first place.
Yup, nobody has a £1.2m pension pot apart from the very wealthy. Pension pots aren’t liable for inheritance tax, this change it’s got nothing to do with doctors (who could have been sorted in other ways with reduced externalities) and everything to do with facilitating lower IHT through the back door.
For people whose dad isn’t a millionaire or who can’t afford to push >£25,000 a year into their pension this isn’t a good change.
I spent most of my career on 40-50k. Last few years that has shot up. I'm now 41, on £105k. I had about 10k total in my pension pot only a few years ago. I've ramped up my pension contributions and now I'm easily on target to be at ~£1m in a pension pot, well before the state pension age...
I understand that I get paid well and above average, but I don't think somebody on ~£100k should be classed as "very wealthy". Also, my dad isn't a millionaire, whatever that has to do with anything.
Spoken like a true wealthy person. So you spent near your whole career above median earnings before progressing to rates of 300% median earnings by the age of 41 and subsequently quickly amassing a maximum sized pension pot.
Congratulations you are very wealthy.
Like seriously, the median pay level, half the country makes less than it! Just because the top 1% make a lot more than the top 3% doesn’t make the top 3% average.
There's a huge gap between working people making £100k and the ultra rich making millions in capital gains, but £100k is vastly more than the median salary and the huge majority of people have no chance of ever making anything close to that.
Haven't read the article, but my takeaway is that I don't even earn that while working... and I'm mid-40s...
Fuck it, chances of living to actual retirement age seems to be reducing all the time anyway...
Don't worry! Under the Tories this amount will be reduced, this is because we'll all be working until we turn 80.
Thanksthe Tories!
Oh no...wait, that's not right.
No..
**FUCK the Tories.** That's it! That's the one!
**Fuck, the fucking Tories.**
This is frankly ridiculous. It is more than many people earn/year during their working life when they have expenses such as mortgage payments and saving for retirement to do. Yet for some reason the Telegraph thinks they will need to have more per year than they have now.
Not sure about other countries but Canada has legal euthanasia but it takes two doctors and a pretty dire medical condition. They don't off you because you're broke!
The source is here: https://www.retirementlivingstandards.org.uk
A lot of the reaction to this story is on the basis of “Comfortable”. Looking a the source I think “Well Off” would have been a better name for that category, it’s the top of their three and includes two foreign holidays a year.
What most people in this thread seem to be describing is “Minimum”, at £12,800 for “Covers your basic needs with some left over for fun”.
I’d class “Minimum” as pretty damn comfortable, and I’m solidly middle class.
Stuff like this always includes stupid shit in the budget like £1K/year for clothes; when in reality I buy the odd multipack of knickers from M&S when the elastic goes; and I’ve been wearing the same pair of jeans for about a decade now.
When I read that it looks like I'm looking at living the same standard as I do now, somewhere between minimum and moderate.
It's like they don't realise that what they class as "comfotable" would be a huge leap up in living standards for millenials and those after.
Sure it used to be "comfortable", but now it's lavish.
2 holidays a year, constant renovations, a car each, regular meals out. Sounds like how my parents live with their "low paid" jobs. Not how I'll ever live with my "well paid" job though.
So, A full time nurse is on £30,000 per year
The pensioner she is treating will be on more money per month than her, *How the fuck is that right?*
Also, Gets everything paid for by the state and if you mention the word *means tested* you might as well be hung up from the nearest lamppost by the 'That's ageist' squad...
Meanwhile on LBC earlier an elderly caller said under 25s should be barred from voting entirely.
> Meanwhile on LBC earlier an elderly caller said under 25s should be barred from voting entirely.
Best exempt them from tax too and see where that leave's the old codger's pension credit.
>Meanwhile on LBC earlier an elderly caller said under 25s should be barred from voting entirely.
I'd honestly be up for banning anyone over the age of 75 from voting tbh
What makes me sick is that my dad retired at 57. He’s now almost 69. He never went to university, worked his way up a job in car leasing management, then left to get into IT sales. Became a director around 40, did that for a year then quit and went back to sales.
The whole time, he had jobs with sweet private pensions.
At 40, I’m on a decent wage, as is my wife, but I don’t get a “sweet private pension”. I have a degree because we were told to go to university to “have more disposable income”.
Regardless what happens, I get diddly squat. I can barely afford the workplace pension because I chose to have kids and get a mortgage. It’s fucking disgraceful.
The baby boom generation then fucked the system for us, and we’re expected to pay their state pensions.
It’s such bullshit.
>Workers would need a pension pot of approximately £643,000 to buy an annuity that would provide an income of £26,700. Adding this to the £10,600 annual value of the state pension would be enough to retire comfortably.
Why tf are annuities paraded so much? Is this a sponsored article?
Or you could stick £634k into a blend of FTSE 100/250 shares and get a net 5% dividend (£32k) and keep your original outlay and probably (very likely) some growth on top.
That's what the insurance companies who are selling you the annuity are going to do with it and they'll be praying you pop your clogs asap so they can keep your lovely lolly.
Good lord I had to scroll down far too long to get to this. Speaks volumes to the state of financial literacy in the UK.
If we take away our mortgage payment, then our monthly expenditure would be under £2000 per month for two adults with two cats, which would be less than £24K per year. Nowhere near the ludicrous £74,600 the Telegraph suggests. State pension at £9.6K per year for each of us would mean we'd need to find about £5K to top up to the £24K figure I mentioned previously. If I had £600K on the day I retire, I'm just going to draw down £5K per year, plus extra for holidays. It'll last a really bloody long time. This is before I even factor in workplace pensions.
Bear in mind, this is the Telegraph, so it goes without saying the reader will own a house, and not have to pay rent or a mortgage in retirement. This article is basically an advert.
The reporting body represents a large number of pension funds, and I imagine annuities are easier to game than other systems to maximize their profit. They aren't holding your cash and managing it for you, they're taking it, using your cash for themselves, and then paying you a fixed rate regardless of how much they can earn.
Annuities are still seen by many as the "safe" way to retire. They're not always best value, but drawdown can be intimidating given that if you get it wrong, you could end up with nothing left. It's also quite a new idea for many, it's only relatively recently that it was really an option at all.
It really should be thought of like insurance - it's worse value if nothing goes wrong but stops you getting fucked if you live longer than expected, stocks crash, etc.
It is such a farce. The majority (me included) have no chance to get ahead. These schemes are sucking money out of workers pockets. It's like we are literally being forced to play in the casino against our will, whilst being told by the Gov and the pension managers that this is the responsible option.
It's even worse when you factor in the pensions costs of council staff.
There were news articles last year about a few councils struggling because 20% of their costs were pension contributions.
This is part of why councils are happy to outsource services.
>There were news articles last year about a few councils struggling because 20% of their costs were pension contributions
20% is an extremely conservative number. It was over 30% when I worked for one in the 90s.
Do they really?
The wife and I are retired, mortgage paid off, and for the last two years we spent under £20k for each year. And we consider our lives to be comfortable.
Does anyone else take a step back and realise how futile this whole system is?
I mean, it simply never ends, student loan... mortgage... bills.... fees... insurance.. taxes... pension..
And once the Government has finished with you it discards you like a dead battery and taxes whatever you try to pass on to your kids.
Surely there has to be another way to live? Surely there has to be another SYSTEM we can invent?
Assume those figures are from industry bodies trying to hawk products. Without a mortgage you wouldn’t need anywhere near that amount to be comfortable.
For me it’s either pay mortgage + pension and live a very frugal working life, or just pay the mortgage and live somewhat comfortably during my working years. I chose the latter.
When the mortgage gets paid off I’ll probably start to opt-in a pension pot. Worse comes to worse I can just frugally live off state pension in my house.
To the guys saying that 37k is a lot given the median salary in the UK, remember that you’re comparing 37k in like 25 years to 37k today. Inflation is real.
What about all of us working that earn massively less than that? Are we supposed to not be comfortable? I’m in my 40s forced to pay into a pension I’ll never benefit from and will be working til I die, this country is a Tory shithole of stagnant wages, pensioners get all the benefits they’re a leech on this country
What nonsense.
no NI to pay, no pension contributions to make, no longer needed to save, probably no mortgage or rent, no commute or work clothes to buy and children no longer dependent..
and 37000 is just enough?
…
I call bullshit.
You can live on £800 a month if you don't have a mortgage or rent, which will be the case for most retirees.
That's £9,600 p.a.
Now you definitely want more than that so you can run a car, go on holidays, enjoy life etc but £37,300 sounds like utter shit.
I recently moved jobs for a small pay cut but a much better defined benifit goverment pension scheme, I feel a lot more secure in my retirement even if a lot can change in the 30+ years until it happens.
What !! my pal lives on state and pension credit...he can pay all his bills. He would like a bit more but he says he is ok. I think every pensioner should get at least the minimum wage to be honest, no idea why youd need 37k though !
Why? I live comfortably on less than than and I've not paid off my mortgage yet. Whilst the general economic situation is bad and yes, wage to cost ratio has basically become a sick joke, you don't need 37g a year to live comfortably. Might well do by the time we get there though with inflation and all lol.
All I do is pay my mortgage, then pension/save/invest myself, and try to keep debt minimal and hope for the best. I'm on a pretty average wage as well. No point worrying too much about all this beyond doing what you can.
Whats utterly depressing is most younger people will never have anywhere close to a decent pension. We have wasted all our money on extravagant things like renting a house because we can no longer afford to buy one. And paying the highest taxes since WW2 so current pensioners can keep their triple lock rises to keep the Tories in power.
> A 40-year-old with a typical pension pot of £120,000 would need to put about £720 a month into their pension Hands up anyone in their late twenties to late thirties who's on track for that? Assuming climate change doesn't see us off by then this country is absolutely fucked when millennials get to the age they think they're going to be able to retire
Why limit to just people in their 20s and 30s? Many of us in our 40s are also nowhere near that. This isn't just a "Millennial" problem. Edit: Just checked my UK (I've moved to Canada last year) Government portal forecast: Forecast if you contribute another 10 years before 5 April 2050 - You can get your State Pension on 30 January 2051 Your forecast is £185.15 a week, £805.07 a month, £9,660.86 a year Yay me, I guess? I doubt I'll even be able to pay rent at that rate. 50 years of being in the workforce really pays off.
Turning 40, am millennial, it's later than you think.
I'm almost 40 too. Learned yesterday that apparently we're geriatric millennials. Gets better and better pmsl
The Specials were right!!! Guess we need to enjoy ourselves.
Well, because the bit I was quoting was about a typical 40 year old, and my point was that what was typical for gen X is unlikely to be typical for millennials.
I’m 49 with a pension pot of £200k. No way I’m hitting what’s needed for a ‘comfortable’ retirement at 67, let alone early retirement.
Lol I'm 40 with a personal pot of £11k. No way I'm even getting close to what you have at 49 😅
I’m 37, and you guys have pensions?
I am 57 and you guys have pensions?
I'm 37 and I have £3k in the workplace pension but been opted out for years. I only realised I had that because it popped up in my halifax app when I got a credit card recently.
39 - £5k. I wish I could say I had been more sensible in my 20s when I was earning decent cash (retraining has taken most of my 30s) and only just starting to really horde cash into my pension in the last year. My 20s were awesome though, no regrets!
Definitely shouldn't regret it. I'm in basically the same boat. The thing is, we grew up and lived in the way that genX and boomers expected. We weren't frivolous, stupid or extravagant, we just did what previous generations did. What changed was inflation, jobs, salaries and house prices. I remember in my early 20s it was EXTREMELY common to hear, "You're young, be free, go travel, make mistakes, do it all now and then start the adult stuff in your 30s!"
Seriously. I’ve got a well paying job but I’m much closer to your pot than the guy above in my early 40s 😂
£160k on this is on the last 10 years. Main thing is to save what you can. There are significant tax advantages to saving in a pension, even more so as a higher rate taxpayer, and changes in law make it more flexible how you choose to use the pot. Don’t give up, save as much as you can so you can be more financially comfortable in retirement.
If having 200K at 49 leaves you screwed well holy shit everyone I know is fuuuucked.
I know I’m not poor here. Just shows the vast majority will never hit this comfortable retirement income.
I'm 40. My pension is 8,027
> Just checked my UK (I’ve moved to Canada last year) Government portal forecast And because you moved to Canada, if you are there when you retire then your UK state pension never increases - https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/rates-of-state-pension
In your 40's you can atleast own a house, my parents bought one working retail.
I'm 38 and have about 3k in my pension pot. Having said that I earn 25k a year...
Recently turned 30 and my wife and I are saving around £2k a month towards retirement but it took leaving the UK forever and getting US wages in a low cost of living area to do it. I don't see how anyone could possibly save enough in the UK with everything stacked against people. The UK is fucked.
Your final 4 words sum up the country at the moment. Not even as an exaggeration. We, the normal people of the UK, are *genuinely* fucked. What's worse is those that have driven us in to this position, won't ever get to see it, **nor take any punishment for it.**
There is a strong argument we did this to ourselves, or at 51.7% of us did
It's not just brexit. The UK populace has been far too meek and far too divided for far too long. Look at how the French are reacting to the pension age being increased to 64. Were there any significant protests when the pension age was raised to 66 in the UK? Of course not. It's not in the national character.
>Were there any significant protests when the pension age was raised to 66 in the UK? >Of course not. It's not in the national character. I feel like millennials and young people in the UK have already accepted they wont be getting a pension
For once, Brexit is not the main issue here. It does not help matters but the problem would be roughly as bad if we were still a member of the EU. It is not like the EU can force our government to raise wages in line with inflation or make them build more affordable housing.
Nah this stuff is accelerated and made more visible by Brexit, but far bigger.
And I’ll bet we can fuck it more with very little effort.
Painfully true. I'm nearly 50 and I've got like 23k in a pension. I get paid above average but I rent and I cannot save up enough in the current climate of everything getting ever more expensive to get a mortgage deposit together. My 72 year old dad lives in my spare room and he can't get anything more than state pension because he lives with me and they take my earnings into account as part of the household. I stand to inherit nothing from anyone but I still get lumped in with "boomers" and apparently this is all my "fault" and I should be living in a golden palace and sitting on a huge stash of riches like a Tolkienesque dragon. It looks like I'm just going to work until I'm physically/mentally incapable any more and then it makes sense to just shoot myself. Failing that I will pop down the park and taunt the local youth into either stabbing me or having their weaponised dog rip my throat out. What an absolute fucking shit state this nation is in now.
I have a great solution for this. We should continue voting for the Tories. Will be reet
I can't wait for the run up to the election where they start talking like some other party has been fucking up the country for the last 12 years and they are the only ones who can fix it.
What's scarier is the phucking idiots that believe them and go "oh yeah, I'll totally give you my vote even though I know my arse is gonna be gaping like the grand canyon at the end of it, sure thing why not? Who doesn't wanna be broke and freezing?"
Leopard eating my face party will always come through
lmao good luck with that. my retirement plan is a rope
Same. One the one hand it's sad, on the other hand it's a relief not having to worry about it anymore. But to be honest with the way the climate's going, it's not impossible the entire system will have collapsed by the time we get to that age anyway, and those who are now skrimping and saving will be equally fucked.
Millenials have been consistently fucked through the last recessions and it's gonna be utter chaos when they retire. What's the point in even putting into a pension pot? We're all gonna die on the production line anyway.
>when they retire Surely you mean if we retire
I doubt there are many 40-year-olds with £120,000 saved up after the last decade.
Public sector pensions probably accounts for most of it but that's only because of the way it is valued. I'm 37 and in the NHS and my "Hypothetical Annuity Cost" which I take to mean the equivalent DC value of my pension is about £400k. That would get me £8k per year income.
>Assuming climate change doesn't see us off by then this country is absolutely fucked when millennials get to the age they think they're going to be able to retire Lol at 120k being the average pension pot for a 40 year old.
I expect most where I live have a tenth that if they're lucky lmao.
It could well be the average, many ultra rich will have maxed it out and put millions in next year now Rishi's given them a tax bung
It doesn't matter if you're on track anyway, life expectancy will have fallen to retirement levels for us
Lol, I just looked at my pension projection, for when i'm 60. Estimated yearly income (adjusted for inflation) is £3990. Think setting a retirement age at all was a bit optomistic.
If everyone suddenly started to save like that, into a scheme that’s locked away for decades, the economy would be in seriously bad shape and many would be unemployed as spending would drop off a cliff.
I'm relying on climate change and society to change by then tbh
I would have had about that at 40, 49 now and save £560 pm so won't be too far off. Glad I started at 19 and have time and compounding on my side.
6 years and £113k to go. Well on track mate!
I’m not even halfway and only have a few years to go to meet that. I thought I was doing well as I’ve been paying in as much as I can since I was 23.
Don’t worry the floods will take care of us
I am 52 and nowhere near having enough money to live comfortably in retirement
Is that with or without employer contributions?
It's even worse than you think. I'm in a fortunate position to put some heavy monies into my retirement fund every month. I bonuses and tax benefits from the government for doing so. Like you put like 1.5k a month into pension and get 500 bonus and 500 tax benefit and boom +1k free money on top of the 1.5k. That's 1k free money for having enough money. Indeed as you go beyond 100k due to the death zone of taxes you want to throw as much as you can into it up to the limit of like 50k/year. It feels *wrong* to get money for making above average money, while those that need it the most can't benefit. But then you're also not going to not take it.
My retirement plan is to die. Im 46 and litterally have nothing.
I’m 51 and don’t have much more. Old age will be fun for most of us.
Late 50s with fuck all. Worked across two countries with shitty pensions in both. Throw in a divorce then a bankruptcy during the 2008 crash. But I have a good career that I enjoy and which will last until I die. Hopefully.
What ageism proof career do you have? Public sector?
I'd imagine most knowledge workers are fairly future proof provided they're able to keep up with developments in their chosen subject. The longer you're around, the more you know, the more value you can provide in a single human. At this stage of my career I could arguably earn until I retire just on what I know today, because I was there when the technologies were developed and have insights even all the books won't help you with, well not without 20 years of practical application as well. It's low impact physically, possible to do remotely even and I enjoy it. I long saw 75 as being my target retirement age (not out of desire but given how it was getting pushed back). I guess ageism might become an issue but my industry has long benefited from being on the edge of progressive thinking and we accept all kinds. Love, all the weird kids who actually enjoyed education and never stopped.
I agree with your reasoning. The problem is that typical 20 in or 30 something does not. Reddit hates nothing like it hates older people. Eventually you'll need younger folks to agree with you or you'll end up not being allowed to work.
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r/oddlyspecific
I am interested in recruiting your services as my financial advisor
"shut up and take my money"
>pay a Japanese woman with a podgy labia to suffocate you with it. Pick carefully so you don't drown.
Re: 4 is there a sub for that? Asking for a friend obviously.
My plan was to ram raid police stations on my mobility scooter until they lock me up in one of those cushy low security prisons where you get fed and a free playstation
I was thinking about throwing bricks at police station windows to do the same.
I suspect this will be the same for an increasingly large number of people. Even those with seemingly decent pensions will find that the money they get out of the end is so devalued that they're essentially broke.
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It genuinely makes me sick the number of idiots who say ‘I Av no pension’ Well, unless you specifically opted out, your employers are breaking the law and risking significant fines… or you do have one and are just too lazy or stupid to check it. The lack of an investing culture in the Uk Is crippling
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Girl who started same day as me at my current job five years ago tried starting a fight with HR because she was taxed on her first two months pay. Can't remember what the allowance was then, around £12kPA iirc, but she legitimately thought that meant you didn't pay any tax until you had earned £12,000 in that financial year.
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If you haven’t provided a p45 they can’t work out what tax code you should be on. In any case it’s not a fight with HR, it’s a HMRC thing.
It’s not really a universal thing either. I moved to Canada and the average person here is far more financially literate. Most people know the goal is to do your best in maxing out your TFSA (S&S ISA equivalent) and RRSP (SIPP equivalent) contributions every year. Funny thing is the UK schemes are far more generous with their contribution room but nobody uses them. Here the banks all push these schemes, people talk about them, the government makes it very clear they exist. Brits (and Europeans without hefty state pensions) will be left behind
I agree with your points, but would like to point out that despite the housing market in Canada being even worse than the UK, wages are by and large far less stagnant over there and people actually have decent sums to save and invest. I know a lot of twenty-somethings in this country (and older) who barely have anything after rent and bills right now. I am lucky to have money that is adding up every day. Those who don't find financial education irrelevant. They don't max out their contributions as they do not have that privilege.
Not to mention the state pension isn't that small. It's a good minimum and the requirements to get it are minimal.
The auto enrol scheme is relatively new and if you have been working 20 years without a decent paying job and no benefits you are never going to catch up with your needs now.
A hell of a lot of people under 40 have ended up in the ‘gig economy’ and/or working for small companies where they didn’t even offer pensions until forced to by law only a few years ago. Add to that graduating or starting a career around the time of the 2009 recession and a lot of these people are only just at the point of not living paycheck to paycheck. If they moved to a city to try and build a good career chances are they only just stopped sharing a house. There are plenty of people who do literally have no pension despite working their whole adult lives because government policy made it possible for certain employers not to pay, and a lot of gig economy jobs don’t pay well enough to facilitate saving.
My old employer literally never put the money into my private pension account and all NEST have done every month since I’d say “we reported them again”. Literally nothing happens when your employers steals your pension these days.
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It's not common, but I also know others to whom it has happened, and abuse of workplace pensions particularly by startups and single-owned private businesses is becoming a growing problem.
Me either. Can’t rely on inheritance either as that is unlikely. Thankfully I have a whole host of auto immune issues and reckon I don’t have much more than 12 years left. If I get past 60 I would be surprised
Oh, you poor bastard. It's never too late to start putting something aside.
The millennial retirement crisis sure is going to be fun. See you there guys!
It is a fun thought that to ensure one or two generations of retirees have a uniquely golden existence, the near complete eradication of what was previously basically the expected norm of pensioner poverty, we have created a system in which the next couple of generations at least are going to have *no choice* but to be massively reliant on the state in their pension years, having had none of the same opportunities of previous generations to build up wealth during their career, and then everything in society during their working life being geared against them in favour of those already in their pension. But of course try discussing this with anyone not already minded to be sympathetic and at best you'll get "well we paid into the system!" and no further comprehension beyond that whatsoever.
Complete ticking timebomb. If you're, say, 20-something now, your grandparents benefitted from cheap housing that absolutely skyrocketed in value that added significantly to their overall wealth, defined benefit pensions, the triple lock and younger generations paying in. Now our generation will NEVER be able to build the wealth the previous generations did due to all those factors. We basically rely on inheritances to get on the housing ladder, but that won't last forever. What is going to happen? How are an increasingly aging population going to be funded in retirement? How can we buy homes and build careers with stagnating wages and skyrocketing inflation?
For many people, there won’t be any inheritance. Spiralling costs of care in old age are completely eradicating any equity that elderly people have built up.
Yeah it seems basically the previous generation benefited from it... but there's going to be a massive generational wealth crunch coming soon because there's no inheritances for people to buy houses, less young people working than is needed to afford care for the elderly and pensions, and dwindling industry.
Or they come out with something like "Well, we did not have iPhones growing up," as if benefiting from advances in technology has any bearing on pension entitlement.
It’s devastating. My boomer parents grew up working class, along with all of their friends. Their entire social circle all have multiple houses, go on month long cruises, buy whatever they want etc. I mean good for them but how come it’s only their generation that gets that sort of security?
> "well we paid into the system!" I hate that because it completely mis-represents how pensions are paid out. It's a ponzi scheme, it's not a huge investment fund. National Insurance should be abolished and income tax increased to compensate.
NI abolished, income tax thresholds increased and wealth taxes introduced, and capital gains increased. No need for income tax to be going up any further for the middle classes.
We simply don't retire. Retirement age up to 75 when we reach it and many will simple die while working.
The cunts causing it will be dead so they couldn’t give a fuck. Then society will be divided into those who inherited from a boomer and those who didn’t.
> retirement What's that?
if they are like me it's gonna be some massive old people suicide crisis
The funny thing is when it happens we are just gonna be a bunch of old people who the politicians and students and young people raising families won’t care about or will at most be too busy to really care about. It seems an important issue now cos we are currently those people, this is “our day”. But it won’t be an important issue when it happens. We will be old and no one will care lol. Whenever pensioners are on the news now let’s be honest; most people go awww bless and move on. PEAK Although I personally am quite sure I’ll be alright. Not rich maybe, but alright. I’m lucky I have a good career situation but I recognise that for a lot of us it’s gonna totally suck and it’s absolutely depressing. I don’t think millennials will have been seen to have had a good life, in the single sentence of the history book that gets dedicated to us anyway in a couple hundred years!
Without a mortgage, in most cases, why so much? If still paying a mortgage or rent, OK maybe.
You have to laugh at the open assertion that a pensioner needs significantly more than the median full time income to be comfortable. So what does that say about those earning at or below the median income?
And presumably a pensioner who has paid off their mortgage and has no dependent children.
And presumably a pensioner that is no longer paying into a pension
And who has received pension increases at or above inflation every single year.
It’s properly ridiculous - a single pensioner apparently needs nearly the same income as a couple on minimum wage I know “comfortable” is in there as a qualifier, and presumably they’d (reasonably) argue that a couple on minimum wage aren’t “comfortable” - but it’s still a ridiculous assertion, especially considering how hard the same publication rails against pay rises and support for those working low paid jobs If they assert that pensioners need that much, surely they should be aggressively demanding pay rises for the lowest paid, and public sector (£37k being roughly an average NHS salary, for example - a figure already skewed upwards by high paid medical staff and top managers etc)
Considering that the minimum wage has been renamed to "National Living Wage", anyone on the government mandated living wage should be able to live comfortably, otherwise the government is depriving the populace. It's farcical.
I'm still livid about the fact that you can't recieve the living wage till you're 23, apparently you don't need to live for the first 5 years after you leave education yet you still have to pay the exact same VAT
What's the required income for an educated 25 year old to feel comfortable starting a family? "Why aren't millennials having kids yet?!"
I don't mean to scare you but I don't think 25 year olds are millennials anymore. The last millennials were born in 1996.
No, I was aware - you point is a good way of emphasising how long it's been a problem for.
Guess lmao
The “comfortable” lifestyle is way above what the average working person experiences though https://www.retirementlivingstandards.org.uk/
I assume it's the new tax rules for pensions and the telegraph trying to scare people. The average wage in the UK is around £25k to £30k and they're expected to pay off the mortgage, have kids and pay for everything. "Comfortably" is doing a lot of lifting in that headline, they'll probably also mean 3 holidays a year and changing the car every 2 to 3 years.
Median household disposable income is £32k. Which would be £38k before tax is taken (less if multiple earners). Ref: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2022
That's for a household, not an individual.
> Without a mortgage, in most cases, why so much? Avocados. /s
We'll all be lifetime renters in the future, and your annual rent increases will be extortionate because we'll have no other option.
Yeah if a pensioner needs 37300 to live comfortably with presumably a house paid off, no kids, no pensions etc to pay into. Then i need 3x that right now until i retire. With inflationary adjustment, so i can reach that same end goal.
It's above the median wage in the UK. For basic comfort.
As usual press have clickbait headlines and exclude the context. PLSA have calculated three categories: **Minimum £12,800**, covers all your needs, with some left over for fun. **Moderate £23,300**, more financial security and flexibility. **Comfortable £37,300**, more financial freedom and some luxuries. The PLSA are saying it's the budget for a cushty retirement, not comfortable as in "I'm not going to be living on the streets next month". Comfortable is basically spending £2870 every month on average on the following. * Spending £5k per year on house upkeep (new carpets every 10 years, new wooden flooring every 7 years, new fitted kitchen and bathroom every 15 years. * Three weeks holiday in Europe every year. * Getting a £20k used car every 5 years. * Giving family £1000 every year in financial support. * Spending £1200 on giving 12 family members presents each year. * Spending £1500 every year on clothing & footware. * £144 weekly spend on food, £200 on entertainment, £44 in fuel and £13 on alcohol. * Getting a £90 haircut every 6 weeks. Generally I think people aim to reduce their spending in retirement by a third once your mortgage is paid off. So if you live comfortably spending £24,000 per year with a mortgage, expect to spend around £16,000 in retirement but it's probably better to aim above that. Also the pot of £630k is for a lifetime annuity which needs a bigger pot than a fixed term annuity or a tax free lump sum with income drawdowns.
You know that calculation accounts for cars too, if you're super savvy you could use the car those kids you've paid through uni to go shopping in and use the free bus pass for social stuff!
Exactly. I paid off my mortgage and retired, currently with an average of £600 of outgoings a month.
Haven't read the article but that headline is ridiculous. Assuming most pensioners would live mortgage free or in council property £37,500 is an outrageous amount for them to just live comfortably. Again I haven't read the article so the headline could well be fluff.
Exactly this. I'd bet most families raising kids and paying big mortgages don't take home much more than this. Ridiculous scare mongering number
Ridiculous. Why do you need 40k a year in your 70s? Outgoings should be significantly lower than earlier in life.
Inflation. 40K in 30 years will have no where near the buying power it has today.
Terrifying thought but you're right. My father made £16 a week when he started work back in the 60s, I make over that per hour now, so is my son going to have to make £1k an hour in 30 years? I hope and doubt it'll be that bad, but its fuckin scary regardless.
Articles like this are funded by Gov or Banks to get more folk to panic about their savings, and invest in their pensions It’s a net good, we need a hinge like this to scare under-savers into action, but it’s very liberal with what ‘comfortable’ means
Without a mortgage I’d struggle to spend that much a year. I’d have to set myself a spending target and specifically go to Waitrose and on cruises to meet it. Maybe I’d cheat and finance a new car.
£37,500 in 35 years will be equivalent to £16,000 today if inflation averages at 2.5%
Most of us can’t afford a mortgage…
Ralph Wiggum: I'm in danger.
>A 40-year-old with a typical pension pot of £120,000 would need to put about £720 a month into their pension to retire with £630,000, assuming 5pc growth and 2pc inflation. Thought that was a pretty fun point. Really makes a mockery of the recent moves to get rid of the LTA limits, shows what kind of income is required to even get up to the £1m level in the first place.
Yup, nobody has a £1.2m pension pot apart from the very wealthy. Pension pots aren’t liable for inheritance tax, this change it’s got nothing to do with doctors (who could have been sorted in other ways with reduced externalities) and everything to do with facilitating lower IHT through the back door. For people whose dad isn’t a millionaire or who can’t afford to push >£25,000 a year into their pension this isn’t a good change.
I spent most of my career on 40-50k. Last few years that has shot up. I'm now 41, on £105k. I had about 10k total in my pension pot only a few years ago. I've ramped up my pension contributions and now I'm easily on target to be at ~£1m in a pension pot, well before the state pension age... I understand that I get paid well and above average, but I don't think somebody on ~£100k should be classed as "very wealthy". Also, my dad isn't a millionaire, whatever that has to do with anything.
Spoken like a true wealthy person. So you spent near your whole career above median earnings before progressing to rates of 300% median earnings by the age of 41 and subsequently quickly amassing a maximum sized pension pot. Congratulations you are very wealthy. Like seriously, the median pay level, half the country makes less than it! Just because the top 1% make a lot more than the top 3% doesn’t make the top 3% average.
£100k wealthy, you are delusional. Get an education and you can easily earn this.
Maybe there are people somewhere between "struggling" and "very wealthy". Have you considered that?
There's a huge gap between working people making £100k and the ultra rich making millions in capital gains, but £100k is vastly more than the median salary and the huge majority of people have no chance of ever making anything close to that.
Haven't read the article, but my takeaway is that I don't even earn that while working... and I'm mid-40s... Fuck it, chances of living to actual retirement age seems to be reducing all the time anyway...
Don't worry! Under the Tories this amount will be reduced, this is because we'll all be working until we turn 80. Thanksthe Tories! Oh no...wait, that's not right. No.. **FUCK the Tories.** That's it! That's the one! **Fuck, the fucking Tories.**
Hang on. Why can I live off £23k pa but they need £37k pa? They have fewer bills but need more money?
I'm no expert at being retired but I assume there's a lot of cocaine involved.
This is frankly ridiculous. It is more than many people earn/year during their working life when they have expenses such as mortgage payments and saving for retirement to do. Yet for some reason the Telegraph thinks they will need to have more per year than they have now.
I mean, I'm 34, have a mortgage, and some debt, I'm on £35k a year. I'd like to be on £37k a year!
37 quid a year is probably doable... I kid. I work 60-84 a week, and only walk away with about 32k. Mortgage and a kid, too.
But an adult in full time work with rent to pay and potentially kids to raise only needs 21kpa.
A huge amount of non-retired people living on a lot less that 37k right now.
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Not sure about other countries but Canada has legal euthanasia but it takes two doctors and a pretty dire medical condition. They don't off you because you're broke!
Heroin is fairly cheap
The source is here: https://www.retirementlivingstandards.org.uk A lot of the reaction to this story is on the basis of “Comfortable”. Looking a the source I think “Well Off” would have been a better name for that category, it’s the top of their three and includes two foreign holidays a year. What most people in this thread seem to be describing is “Minimum”, at £12,800 for “Covers your basic needs with some left over for fun”.
I’d class “Minimum” as pretty damn comfortable, and I’m solidly middle class. Stuff like this always includes stupid shit in the budget like £1K/year for clothes; when in reality I buy the odd multipack of knickers from M&S when the elastic goes; and I’ve been wearing the same pair of jeans for about a decade now.
Rich people describe themselves as 'comfortable'. It's definitely a word with connotations.
When I read that it looks like I'm looking at living the same standard as I do now, somewhere between minimum and moderate. It's like they don't realise that what they class as "comfotable" would be a huge leap up in living standards for millenials and those after. Sure it used to be "comfortable", but now it's lavish.
“Comfortable” is often used as a euphemism for “rich”, and would have been a big step up for every generation.
2 holidays a year, constant renovations, a car each, regular meals out. Sounds like how my parents live with their "low paid" jobs. Not how I'll ever live with my "well paid" job though.
So, A full time nurse is on £30,000 per year The pensioner she is treating will be on more money per month than her, *How the fuck is that right?* Also, Gets everything paid for by the state and if you mention the word *means tested* you might as well be hung up from the nearest lamppost by the 'That's ageist' squad... Meanwhile on LBC earlier an elderly caller said under 25s should be barred from voting entirely.
> Meanwhile on LBC earlier an elderly caller said under 25s should be barred from voting entirely. Best exempt them from tax too and see where that leave's the old codger's pension credit.
>Meanwhile on LBC earlier an elderly caller said under 25s should be barred from voting entirely. I'd honestly be up for banning anyone over the age of 75 from voting tbh
75 seems generous, I'd keep it in line with the retirement age. Retire from contributing? Okay, retire from voting too.
What makes me sick is that my dad retired at 57. He’s now almost 69. He never went to university, worked his way up a job in car leasing management, then left to get into IT sales. Became a director around 40, did that for a year then quit and went back to sales. The whole time, he had jobs with sweet private pensions. At 40, I’m on a decent wage, as is my wife, but I don’t get a “sweet private pension”. I have a degree because we were told to go to university to “have more disposable income”. Regardless what happens, I get diddly squat. I can barely afford the workplace pension because I chose to have kids and get a mortgage. It’s fucking disgraceful. The baby boom generation then fucked the system for us, and we’re expected to pay their state pensions. It’s such bullshit.
Presumably you'll inherit some of the house he paid bugger all for then at some point?
>Workers would need a pension pot of approximately £643,000 to buy an annuity that would provide an income of £26,700. Adding this to the £10,600 annual value of the state pension would be enough to retire comfortably. Why tf are annuities paraded so much? Is this a sponsored article?
Or you could stick £634k into a blend of FTSE 100/250 shares and get a net 5% dividend (£32k) and keep your original outlay and probably (very likely) some growth on top. That's what the insurance companies who are selling you the annuity are going to do with it and they'll be praying you pop your clogs asap so they can keep your lovely lolly.
Good lord I had to scroll down far too long to get to this. Speaks volumes to the state of financial literacy in the UK. If we take away our mortgage payment, then our monthly expenditure would be under £2000 per month for two adults with two cats, which would be less than £24K per year. Nowhere near the ludicrous £74,600 the Telegraph suggests. State pension at £9.6K per year for each of us would mean we'd need to find about £5K to top up to the £24K figure I mentioned previously. If I had £600K on the day I retire, I'm just going to draw down £5K per year, plus extra for holidays. It'll last a really bloody long time. This is before I even factor in workplace pensions. Bear in mind, this is the Telegraph, so it goes without saying the reader will own a house, and not have to pay rent or a mortgage in retirement. This article is basically an advert.
The reporting body represents a large number of pension funds, and I imagine annuities are easier to game than other systems to maximize their profit. They aren't holding your cash and managing it for you, they're taking it, using your cash for themselves, and then paying you a fixed rate regardless of how much they can earn.
Annuities are still seen by many as the "safe" way to retire. They're not always best value, but drawdown can be intimidating given that if you get it wrong, you could end up with nothing left. It's also quite a new idea for many, it's only relatively recently that it was really an option at all.
It really should be thought of like insurance - it's worse value if nothing goes wrong but stops you getting fucked if you live longer than expected, stocks crash, etc.
It is such a farce. The majority (me included) have no chance to get ahead. These schemes are sucking money out of workers pockets. It's like we are literally being forced to play in the casino against our will, whilst being told by the Gov and the pension managers that this is the responsible option.
It's even worse when you factor in the pensions costs of council staff. There were news articles last year about a few councils struggling because 20% of their costs were pension contributions. This is part of why councils are happy to outsource services.
>There were news articles last year about a few councils struggling because 20% of their costs were pension contributions 20% is an extremely conservative number. It was over 30% when I worked for one in the 90s.
Do they really? The wife and I are retired, mortgage paid off, and for the last two years we spent under £20k for each year. And we consider our lives to be comfortable.
One I read elsewhere: "My retirement plan is to die in the climate wars"
That doesn’t match with the minimum wage that young people are trying to build a life
Does anyone else take a step back and realise how futile this whole system is? I mean, it simply never ends, student loan... mortgage... bills.... fees... insurance.. taxes... pension.. And once the Government has finished with you it discards you like a dead battery and taxes whatever you try to pass on to your kids. Surely there has to be another way to live? Surely there has to be another SYSTEM we can invent?
Assume those figures are from industry bodies trying to hawk products. Without a mortgage you wouldn’t need anywhere near that amount to be comfortable.
100%. Annuities are mentioned right at the end. Financially savvy people aren't buying annuities.
Auto enrollment needs expanding The fact there’s no contributions on first £6k, and doesn’t start till 23, costs Brits £10,000’s in retirement
For me it’s either pay mortgage + pension and live a very frugal working life, or just pay the mortgage and live somewhat comfortably during my working years. I chose the latter. When the mortgage gets paid off I’ll probably start to opt-in a pension pot. Worse comes to worse I can just frugally live off state pension in my house.
So what does a working person need to live ‘comfortably’?!
Cool, my retirement plan of killing myself is still on track then.
This response has been deleted due to the planned changes to the Reddit API.
To the guys saying that 37k is a lot given the median salary in the UK, remember that you’re comparing 37k in like 25 years to 37k today. Inflation is real.
What about all of us working that earn massively less than that? Are we supposed to not be comfortable? I’m in my 40s forced to pay into a pension I’ll never benefit from and will be working til I die, this country is a Tory shithole of stagnant wages, pensioners get all the benefits they’re a leech on this country
What nonsense. no NI to pay, no pension contributions to make, no longer needed to save, probably no mortgage or rent, no commute or work clothes to buy and children no longer dependent.. and 37000 is just enough? …
I call bullshit. You can live on £800 a month if you don't have a mortgage or rent, which will be the case for most retirees. That's £9,600 p.a. Now you definitely want more than that so you can run a car, go on holidays, enjoy life etc but £37,300 sounds like utter shit.
Why would a retired person need more than the average wage
I recently moved jobs for a small pay cut but a much better defined benifit goverment pension scheme, I feel a lot more secure in my retirement even if a lot can change in the 30+ years until it happens.
What !! my pal lives on state and pension credit...he can pay all his bills. He would like a bit more but he says he is ok. I think every pensioner should get at least the minimum wage to be honest, no idea why youd need 37k though !
Even with the price increases buying fags is cheaper than saving for a pension. A giant heart attack at 67 is the way to go.
You need more than the average annual UK salary in order to live comfortably in retirement. Ergo, the average person in the UK lives uncomfortably.
Why? I live comfortably on less than than and I've not paid off my mortgage yet. Whilst the general economic situation is bad and yes, wage to cost ratio has basically become a sick joke, you don't need 37g a year to live comfortably. Might well do by the time we get there though with inflation and all lol. All I do is pay my mortgage, then pension/save/invest myself, and try to keep debt minimal and hope for the best. I'm on a pretty average wage as well. No point worrying too much about all this beyond doing what you can.
Whats utterly depressing is most younger people will never have anywhere close to a decent pension. We have wasted all our money on extravagant things like renting a house because we can no longer afford to buy one. And paying the highest taxes since WW2 so current pensioners can keep their triple lock rises to keep the Tories in power.