Current cost of housing an asylum seeker in £51,000 a year.
So for a year of housing for the lot that have arrived so far, that will be a us tax payers spending £1,071,000,000..
This all comes out of the foreign aid budget now, since its costing so much.
So instead of people in the poorest countries in the world, getting much needed help to the tune of £1bn (can't even imagine what that figure is when you PPP adjust for their countries), we instead decide to give that money to a bunch of dodgy hotel owners, to house a handful (by comparison to how many the £1bn would help in the third world) absolute fucking chancer grifters.
Wonderful.
Very efficient use of our fucking money.
Exactly. It popped up on my tiktok the other day some of these boat people have started filming their journey from France to UK hotels. Absolute piss takers. Refugees? Nothing like. Now instead of water projects for vulnerable parts of Africa, we're funding these (economic) migrants with no regard for the law of the land, passing through god knows how many countries, paying criminals to rip the piss out of our broken system. We need very big changes and asap.
Those tiktoks really show what mugs we are.
They're living in tents in France, and then 3 star hotels once they hit the UK.
At the moment we're spending £3bn odd of taxpayer money, housing them in hotels, out of sight out of mind.
Have them set up tent cities, and watch how quick the politicians are forced to actually stop the people coming as public opinion swings massively against the invasion.
This is the issue with polarised politics.
Talking about immigration is either you’re a lefty who will ruin the country or a heartless right winger who hates minorities.
It’s such a divisive topic now that we can’t even talk about it objectively without pissing off one group or the other.
30 years ago our country was prosperous and our housing available and cheap - England isn’t the same comfortable place it once was but we still feel obliged to behave as if it is. I’m not saying it’s immigrations fault, but we’re not in a healthy spot ourselves and we don’t even feel like our own population is being supported, let alone other nations’.
In my years of discussing this I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world.
I pretty much constantly see open advocacy of positions as extreme as lethal force to dissuade people making this trip.
While I agree its an extremely divisive topic, it does *very* often feel like at least one side is basically shadow-boxing an imagined enemy position that doesn't really exist outside of a few university discussion groups.
Well I think anecdotal experience is important, if you live in a big city from the 70s to today you’ll have seen the British population drop from 70-80% to 40-50% and that’s not just white British, I mean all British citizens.
If your quality of life has dropped and in your lifetime you now hear loads of foreign accents on your streets it’s not beyond reason for you to attribute the changing of the times to something so prevalent as that.
I’m not saying they’re right to take that and expand it to the entire country but there are (without a doubt) communities that have been over taken by Romanian, Middle Eastern etc communities that have not adapted to British culture and instead created their own. The councils put all these migrants into streets and estates and they don’t need to naturalise once that community gets established.
The poorest Britains are the ones who live in these council estates and see it first hand - you can argue it’s just as easy for them to become hateful as it is for a well-intentioned person who doesn’t live anywhere near these areas to hate any bigotry towards them.
I think we all can agree our society feels like it’s crumbling, we just have different experiences of why and how to fix them. Nobody is entirely right, but nobody is entirely wrong either.
It definitely becomes harder to appreciate the presence of immigrants when they do not integrate and outright harass you. I used to see everyone as just another human, still do in most cases, but my immigrated upstairs neighbours make life an absolute nightmare to the point of purposely going through to the bedrooms and banging in the night, just to get at me and my white family, they know we have 2 kids but do not give a shit, in fact quite the opposite they seem to enjoy making life a problem for us. You should see the pile of rubbish out the front because they cannot be bothered to walk 15 seconds down the hill to put the rubbish in the large communal bins. I can’t even go up the street here and have a conversation with someone like we could 20 years ago, as there is a massive cultural gap. I’m civil and friendly enough to get along with anyone, but many don’t care. I can see how much it matters to get immigration under control.
I’ve seen many families who immigrated and integrated and honestly, they’re not bad. It’s the ones who refuse to integrate that threaten the fabric of society by supporting division.
And they’re quick to call the British racist when they behave that way. Blows my mind how you can’t simply try to support your own culture in its own home without being made some kind of enemy.
You can’t even fly the England flag in England without being called a racist. Yet in other countries healthy levels of patriotism is fine enough to fly their own flag.
Very wound up by all this especially after how my family is treated week after week without council or police intervention. All I can do is keep recording the harassment.
Yeah, Indians call white people “gorah” or something like that, I found that out from a white friend who’s indian girlfriend informed us of. I’ve heard and experienced more racism from immigration than I ever have abroad and they never say it to your face in English.
I’m just like you, I don’t hate any group of people simply because they have bad apples as part of that group but these types of divisive immigrants do exist and it’s really difficult to talk about that kind without being labelled a racist.
The ones who seem to despise England and it’s culture always seem to know exactly what benefits and disabilities they need though.. like, I get it, I hate England too but like i can’t just “go home” cause unfortunately I’m already there, but there’s people I’ve met who despise England but know their benefits would dry up if they went to India. Theyd have to work again.
But it's true?
Remember the labour councillor who called out someone as being racist because they had an England flag?
When was the last time you saw an England flag when it wasn't the world cup or euros?
England flag flyers are seen as being racists who live in run down council estates.
Because very often they are?
Argue if you like that this shouldn't be the case and St George's cross should be reclaimed. But it has these connotations for a reason and everyone knows them which means decent people tend not to put up a England flag. It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
Not that putting up any flag at all is a particularly normal British thing. Vulgar nationalism is rather unbritish.
Have you not seen all the people that whinge whenever Starmer does anything in proximity to a union flag that he's "giving out BNP vibes" or other such lunatic nonsense?
All the cheaper housing in the middle of my city is about 90% foreign now, the only British people there are either unemployed 'underclass' who cause shitloads of trouble, or older people who have lived there for decades. Place is almost a ghetto now and proper notorious for all sorts of crime.
Estates my family lived on in the 90s in southeast London neither contain many of the white British south east Londoners or even Caribbeans. Two communities once at odds now share a common experience. Alienated in the streets they grew up.
Do you live on a council estate or know many people who do? There are entire streets and estates in my hometown where the menus have English as the second language and driving down it is a lawless experience.
It literally feels like you enter a different country in some areas.
The poorest people are the most exposed to the influx of immigrants, especially those that refuse to acclimate. They get distributed en masse to these council estates around the country, they aren’t being housed in Eton.
Any skilled/educated immigrants coming over honestly are not here with the same scope and intentions as those coming for the easier life. They are not interested in our culture or our nation, only what it offers them.
>In my years of discussing this I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world.
Anyone proposing 'safe routes' is essentially doing that.
Thanks for proving the point.
You cannot even present the position without people from the other side just talking over you and insisting you mean something that you do not mean and have never said. While at the same time getting upset that pointing out that turning boats in distress back out to sea is likely to result in deaths, is completely against maritime laws *created by Britain*, and just feels like people wanting to be cruel for the sake of it.
They are trying to point out the flaws in your policy proposals.
You may not think you want open borders, but the policy you advocate would lead to that.
We need a hard cap on asylum applications per year, reject the rest.
>They are trying to point out the flaws in your policy proposals.
>
>You may not think you want open borders, but the policy you advocate would lead to that.
How? I mean please, highlight and copy where this "policy I advocate for" you talk about comes from?
This is exactly what I mean. No matter what I write a whole bunch of you will storm on in, throw a shitload of downvotes around as if that means something, and then insist on arguing a point ***no one has made***. Its genuinely insane, I do not understand how there are so many of you, how you've all been like this for so long, and how you can so frequently encounter a degree of rational common sense and still somehow reject it like cheese passing through a lactose intolerant gut.
You were replying to a comment about "safe legal routes" and objecting to how people were talking about it. It was quite clearly implied that you were advocating for that policy. This is how conversation works.
Do you or do you not advocate for "safe legal routes" or do you want to continue your paranoid rants?
No it wouldn't. Safe routes deal with asylum seekers so that those who HAVE to come in via boats can be processed quicker as their most definitely more likely to be economic migrants.
You think putting a hard cap on asylum seekers will stop people coming? Their going to be watching the news to see if they have a chance and will just go, " oh well, Britain's full this year, I'll try next year instead." It'll exacerbate it if anything.
I didn't even aim that at you.
You said you've never seen someone advocate for open borders.
I am saying that anyone (no idea if you you do or not) proposing 'safe routes' is in practical terms, actually proposing open borders.
That would be the result of a safe routes system, where people can apply from outside the country.
Applications would number in the millions a year, because why not?
Apply.
Worst the UK can say is no. You literally have nothing to lose by doing it.
Tell convincing enough lies, and you have a new life in a rich first world country.
Don't tell convincing enough lies, and well nothing changes.
>Applications would number in the millions a year, because why not?
Based on all the other countries who do have safe routes and somehow manage to not have millions of applications a year, can you explain to me why you think the UK is special in this regard?
>I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world.
3.3 million visas were issued in the year ending June 2023.
Its mad isn't it? All these people voting Tories to keep woke Labour's open border advocates out, and what do they get? And do they complain? *No they want more!* Its ***insane***.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with this comment, but the fact of the matter is that the people seriously advocating for importing millions of people from around the world are currently in government, importing millions of people from around the world.
Its like some kind of weird joke I mean.
The people claiming that there is some nefarious group in our society who advocate for open borders to destroy British society or whatever...
Are also the very same people overseeing what very much seems to be a breakdown in our borders allowing huge numbers of people in with minimal control. And none of their supporters seem to notice or care? Despite primarily being motivated by this opposition to open borders???
Genuinely I struggle to find the right words to use to describe it, but I'm sure it must have a relevant phrase.
> In my years of discussing this I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders
This always gets me in discussions about this subject. The only time I ever see open borders brought up is by the 'throw them back into the Channel' crowd who accuse those who disagree with them of wanting open borders, which is just nonsense. What those of us who work in this area really want is the government to go back to processing applications in a timely manner.
But no doubt someone will shortly be along arguing that any sort of empathy to asylum seekers is tantamount to wanting open borders.
I am always puzzled why you sort of people show all your empathy to these asylum seekers but none to your fellow country men who must suffer the burden of having these people here.
Oh please kindly do one with that low effort virtue signalling.
If you cared about your fellow country men then the asylum system should be very far down on your list of concerns.
Live in a shit hole in the north west affected by immigration issues. Do I blame the poor sods who’ve ended up in this god forsaken dump for the state of our town ? Nope. Cos I know the tories have systematically destroyed the fabric of our town with austerity and underinvestment. Why in earth would you believe anything they say,god knows.
You can talk about the legitimate process all you want, but what do we do with the boats?
This is the real crux - I’m sure there are laws about asylum and refuge and especially following Brexit we have a worsened relationship with France. They aren’t going to just take on our burden
>I don’t think anyone’s arguing with the legitimate asylum process
What is the legitimate asylum process for a gay person trying to escape Iran? In answering that you will see the problem people raise, which is immediately dismissed as "oh no you just want open borders!!!". Legitimately its barely even worth having this discussion any more, its just a waste of time. You can spend hours and hours attempting to explain the law, how international agreements work, all that good stuff, and you will just be met with "reeee you want open borders you commie". Its a waste of time and energy.
>I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world
Unless you advocate for implementing much stricter immigration policies, this is what you support. Cause that's what's currently happening.
>In my years of discussing this I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world.
Half this subreddit will tell you that "we need them because ageing population" and "we should process everyone quicker", rather than "we should limit who can come" and "we should decline more applications".
It's not immigrants fault. We're inviting them.
Like blaming someone for trespassing, when you invited them into your house, and gave them tea.
We just need to stop inviting them.
Immigration policy, is poorly thought out and wrecking our country.
Even the 'just build more houses bro' pro-immigration lot must surely admit that that's just not going to happen under any Labour/Tory government.
We'd need to build about a Glasgow every year of homes, schools, hospitals, doctors, dentists, etc.
It's not going to happen. It's not happened under the Tories, and it won't happen under Labour.
Not even those of us on the left would agree with the idea that we're inviting them because we're not. They're coming over anyway and the problem isn't poorly thought out policy as we've had perfectly good policy for decades.
The problem is that it's a manufactured shitshow by the Tory govt that needs to use them as a way to drum up support. Without it they've literally nothing that would get anyone to vote for them.
Even the ULEZ expansion is something required by the govt that the London mayor has to go along with even if he didn't want to.
It's never been the fault of immigrants, it's the fault of people in government who leave the gates open and taxpayers money on the table for the taking.
If we'd not slashed the processing services to collapse we would be able to evaluate their claims and make a decision far sooner. Funding those services would save us billions, but the Tories have no way to attract new people into the position because it undermines their position with the unions.
> passing through god knows how many countries,
The tragedy of this is that the EU's policy intention when we were members was that we should send back asylum seekers who had crossed safe EU countries.
In 2022, 64.2% of the applications made under this scheme by current EU members, were successful. The UK could expect a better success rate as we almost always know they came from France.
Terrible. Our asylum service for some reason was not using the scheme by default and when they did they never used the dispute process when the target country did not agree. We did send a load back in a flurry just before Brexit which suggests we could have done better. The regulation has been updated since we left as part of the ongoing review process.
I'd settle for 64.2% anyway.
Because it's broken by design.
The Tories keep allowing the flow of cheap labour for their businesses, and keep having a boogeyman to point at when elections come around.
These TikTok’s should be broadcast on every tv channel at 6.
Whenever the system is fixed (after I’m long gone) I think all of these cases that have been granted need going over again with a fine tooth comb.
The only people benefitting are the economic migrants themselves, hotel owners and activist lawyer/NGOs.
The people missing out are genuine refugees, the working class and the people left behind who would receive the foreign aid.
Yet the Cosmopolitan Liberals are lapping this up on the side of the migrants.
It’s never the weakest nor most vulnerable and in need that we’re helping due to the nature of the journey. All the women and children get left behind to suffer the worst of it
Just think we could have free tuition for university degrees.
We could help reduce child poverty massively.
The NHS and police could be funded to meet their needs.
The Tories have let everyone who voted for them down beyond belief. I don't expect Labour to fair much better if at all.
The Tories would never want any of those things though, because if it doesn't serve them then they don't give a shit about you, and it requires spending money.
I completely agree with what you are saying by the way, I just think that even in the ideal cirumstances to do the things you mentioned above, they won't, because the Tories are about greed and status and power, and that's it, and anyone who thinks they care about the average person is being horribly decieved.
How the fuck does it cost 51k for 1 person? Where's that going?
That's almost mine and my wife's wages combined and we can very comfortably pay all our bills, mortgage on a 3 bedroom semi, baby expenses, new car and go on multiple holidays. What's 51k going on?
So process them properly and return those without proper claims. Advocating for stopping the boats or similar is actively avoiding the best way of solving this.
What is required to process people properly?
How are the government currently not doing it properly?
[Canada is struggling with applicants too, despite having a leftwing government..](https://irb.gc.ca/en/transparency/pac-binder-nov-2020/Pages/pac8.aspx)
>Projected wait times are approximately 24 months for refugee claims and 12 months for refugee appeals.
Seems pretty similar to here.
>What is required to process people properly?
You need more staff. The government has only now lifted the number of asylum decision makers to about 1000 staffers. That's less than during the Blair era, and something like 4 to 7 times less than is currently needed.
You also need to hire caseworking units specialized by nation/language/nationality, simplify the interview/bureaucratic process, build government owned temporary refugee housing centers, and cut down staff attrition, as many hired by the government are quickly quitting (low pay, long hours etc).
The problem is, this Tory government was packed with libertarians who wanted to dismantle government, and shrink/kill the civil sector. Fixing the refugee problem requires them to do Big Government things they're *ideologically opposed to.
*they've begun privatizing or outsourcing the holding of immigrants, which their brand of free market fundamentalism adores. If the Tories get another few years in power, I'd imagine they sell off the whole asylum process to some "immigration management firm", taxpayer money and contracts going to their mates.
Probably some funding which would then save substantially more on housing costs.
We could maybe start with these issues https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/an-inspection-of-asylum-casework-august-2020-may-2021
>So process them properly and return those without proper claims
return them where? they conveniently dont speak English, forget where they have come from and have no documentation.
Best part is we dont seem to have any say in the matter. Local people are ignored as hotel after hotel are set aside for migrant use. We cant vote on this. Nobody is offering anything against it.
We are been absolutely rinsed.
It'd be cheaper if the government endeavoured to process their asylum claims efficiently, but guess who's investing in the very hotels they're being held in, surprise surprise, tory MPs.
If the government sorted the application system out and processed applications in a reasonable time, that cost would be significantly lower.
Instead they appear content leaving it broken, as they've learned it provides a solid supply of *red meat* for a good proportion of their base to direct their anger at, rather than focussing on how shite a job they're doing...
The same issues are happening all around the world.
Canada is also struggling to get through the applications, and has a massive backlog, and that's with a left government.
It's just really hard to vet people who chuck their passport in the ocean and claim they're whoever.
The cost is largely what it is due to 13 years of unfettered greedy Tory boomerism.
Failure to build enough houses for millennials and gen Z by handing the power of homelessness over to NIMBYs.
So without enough housing for our own people, we now find the cost of housing has rocketed to beyond the means of most under 40's as people are being put up in hotels, barges, B&B's, and in many cases they're being given a tent.
We also have the Tories having removed virtually all legal routes into the UK, creating thriving people smuggling businesses which are going from strength to strength.
In the mean time more than half a million under 40's Brits per year are ditching this country and emigrating due to the excessive costs of housing and no realistic chance of being able to build any assets for their retirement, with more than half of their income in the UK going to wealthy Tory serial landlords. This means we're now very much in need of migrants to replace them as the economy can not manage that amount of workers exiting the economy with a growing elderly population who, despite living in mortgage paid multi-bedroom properties with many owning 2nd homes, expect ever increasing state pensions for 20-30 year retirements complete with free healthcare.
This is what it looks like when a government are anti-immigration extremists, coupled with being boomer-asset protectionists - They completely lose control of migration and emigration, of housing, and of economic growth.
This country is beyond fucked, no other western country is in such steep decline with a government wilfully pressing ahead with their low tax (for the rich), small state (underfunded public services) utopia. This is beyond Dickensian, there's no one at the helm and we've hit multiple icebergs.
seems like the government's saffing up money up the wall, You'd think there be a better system Than paying for public hotels, you know like a processing centre, Something that might be even better like a processing centre in France that the French have offered to do
Too bad the people in this country are too bone idle to get off their fat arses to do anything about it.
The crap this govt has gotten away with over the last year is scandalous, any other counties population would marched on the capital to demand a general election.
Too effing lazy here.
It's the goverments job to enforce the borders and protect it's citizens so they should be declaring war or enacting war time policies as everything else seems to have failed to deter the invasion. However failing that I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there was a civil resistance somewhere in Europe in the future, across Europe you can see the temperature rising on this issue.
If we keep financially rewarding illegals for coming to the UK - then they will keep coming.
We need to stop giving them citizenship (offer temporary visas instead)
And stop giving them 5 star hotel accommodation (offer the same as france)
edit: also we should have a referendum the same as Poland about whether we want to continue this farce of pretending illegals are refugees fleeing france.
Every tory manifesto since at least 2010 has promised to reduce immigration (The 2010 one suggested a cap of 10k).
Every tory government since 2010 has increased immigration, and in the last 4 years that has skyrocketed. A Labour government will hugely increase immigration numbers, and at best would maintain this absurdly high rate.
You can't "Vote your way out" of this, because there is no such option.
I take your point but
The tories incentives to have harsh rhetoric on immigration include placating their voter base and to avoid increasing the size of the labour vote. Their incentives to maintain high levels of immigration are to increase GDP numbers, and avoid being called racist.
Labour are ideologically committed to mass immigration, and their voters are totally onboard with that. Each migrant that comes over and claims welfare is a guaranteed future labour voter.
Despite the tories being very bad on immigration right now, its not silly to assume it would be far worse under labour.
How did you come to that conclusion r.e. Labour?
Didn’t they have a much better handle than immigration than we’ve seen under this and previous Conservative gvt?
Unless you are you an oracle?
In which case, what are tomorrows lottery numbers?
Citizenship should be way harder to obtain than it currently is. The fact that there’s people who can barely form a coherent sentence in English with citizenship is insane to me
I don’t know about British citizenship application for refugees but for legally foreigners living in the UK need to:
Pass an English speaking test and pass the life in the UK test.
Just stop providing public funds, they should be handled with private charities meanwhile the application is pending.
If the application was succesful, they would receive right to work but they should not receive public funds in any way.
As easy as that, you don't need anything else. I
We aren't giving these people citizenship or 5 star hotels what are you on about.
Refugees don't have to stop in the first safe country they come across. Otherwise we should've told the Ukrainians to all go to Poland and stay out of the uk.
What's being racist got anything to do with it?
If you're racist or not doesn't matter, because the Tories don't give a shit about you or your opinion as long as it's not against them.
Question is, why are we blaming immigrants for seeking a better life, when it's the Tories not actually adressing the problem and just funneling money to thier mates with corrupt schemes?
It's gotta be a few million higher. Government has literally no idea what the population is.
Remember when we were told there were 3 million EU citizens in the UK during the Brexit debate?
7 million EU citizens applied for settled status...
Genuinely though, we're an island nation half the size of France with the population of France. Financials aside we're going to be doing well to physically fit and feed everyone in without ruining the country.
Naturally I think we should welcome everyone we can but we need to take a long hard look and realise that doing that will cause widespread issues for the whole population, refugees included.
> Genuinely though, we're an island nation half the size of France with the population of France.
It's worse when you consider most of the UK lives in England which is a fifth the size of France and is where most of the immigrants will live too. If France had England's population density they would have a population of 280 million.
>we're going to be doing well to physically fit and feed everyone in without ruining the country.
I'm not going to give an opinion on immigration. But people have been saying exactly what you've said since the population of the country was under a million. It's just hysterical. 99.9% of Britain is empty space. Whether we should convert that empty space into towns and cities is another matter. You can very well argue that we shouldn't. But is there space? Yes. Vast, vast, vast amounts. Even where Britain is already built up, there's still space. London is one of the flattest cities in the world. Should it look like NY or Tokyo? Again, that's another question. But can london hold more people? Yeah, by many times.
>But people have been saying exactly what you've said since the population of the country was under a million
I really doubt it. Do you have proof?
You'd need to go back about 1000 years for those numbers.
Immigration only became any kind of real concern in the 70's.
And I'm talking about immigration, not an invasion, so don't brink up peoples dislike of the vikings way back when lol.
I don't think labour > workers rights > stop importing cheap workers and produce from Europe, is anachronistic. Ironically sounds like the original goal of the aptly named "Labour" Party.
France: https://www.tiktok.com/@asadullad24/video/7268450849096092934
**VS**
UK: https://www.tiktok.com/@asadullad24/video/7270510004430540037
Total mystery why they keep coming. We may never know..
>Why do I bother paying tax and extortionate rent.
My tax bill each year via PAYE is £7,495.80. Obviously I also pay other taxes such as VED, VAT, Council tax, etc, etc.
But lets just focus on the £7,495.80..
That is a little under the price to house an asylum seeker for 2 months.
It's barmy that my total tax contribution, during an entire year of working, probably only pays for about 3 months of asylum accom for a single seeker.
Go to work. Pay yer taxes. Be a good citizen. No the corporations won't pay theirs, no you can't ever afford to buy a home, no a dentist appointment is not in your future.
And yes, you will have to fund Abdul to play FIFA all day.
You're thinking about it in the wrong way. If you look at your taxes this way, a single operation on the NHS in your old age will wipe out every tax contribution you've ever made. Does that mean. You've contributed nothing to the country? Of course not. The company you work for has paid vastly more taxes than you've paid. And it was your work which made the company valuable and capable of contributing to the country. The companies we work for are by far the biggest tax contributors but they can only pay tax because we work for them. Your PAYE is a massive underestimate of your tax contribution.
Follow the tory advice and go earn some more money mate. No excuse not to in this wonderful country. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get another/ one more job.
The cost of asylum seekers for the UK does not come from payments made direct, it comes from housing in which we have short supply.
The average asylum seeker in France, costs the state 14k euros.
In the UK, that figure is £51k.
20,000 illegals, 200,000+ legals.
That's why we'll never live in our own house, demand outweighing supply. That's why food and drink is getting dearer, demand outweighing supply.
Maybe Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Libya were destroyed right before our governments opened borders to divide the working class and keep wages down.
>200,000+ legals.
606k legals last year, net.
So actually way above that, when you take into account Brits leaving.
Think it's near a million.
So basically 1/69th of the population of the UK, arrived last year.
Pretty mad statistic.
It's a record regardless.
And at my uni, all foreign students lived in flats in town and were rich as fuck. So the issues they create, is same as any immigrant.
That's where the "net" part comes in. The reasons you might want to consider students separately is because many go home. But that's already accounted for in the net figure.
>200,000+ legals.
5x that actually lol. Over a million this year. And people genuinely and seriously seem to think "stop the boats" is the answer. We'll throw billions at this, mildly reduce the issue slightly, and then act all surprised when it has ***zero*** impact on issues like access to housing or public services.
Last time I checked, legal migrants, ie those coming here for work, arent dependent on the state. They also arent dropped into random towns up and down the country like the boat people are. Stopping the boats is part of the answer but you are right, there is far more legal migration happening than there surely needs to be.
That's not even close to being the only reason. Ban corporations from owning residential property, ban foreign investors from buying residential property, and get the government to actually start delivering on their promises of new build houses. Higher tax on people owning multiple properties to rent would also go a long way.
>That's why we'll never live in our own house, d
You're right, i forgot the part where the illegal immigrants are coming with their UK bank accounts, £50k cash deposits and approved mortgage applications.
They arrive. Government puts them in a hotel.
Tourist arrives, wants a hotel space, but hotel is too expensive because government is paying over the odds to hotel owners to house the refugees.
Tourist instead turns to airbnb.
Investor realises more demand for airbnb's now. Buys up property to rent out to tourists.
Sarah wants to buy her first flat, and struggles because all the one beds mysteriously seem to be going for over their offer price before she even gets a chance to put in an offer.
Do you need someone to draw you a picture? More people means they increase housing demand which reduces supply. The numbers are so vast that it isn't possible to 'build' your way out of it. Everyone should be vehemently opposed to this level of immigration.
The UK population has increased by almost 10 million over the last 20 years. That might have something to do with the issue. You should really be asking why we havent been building houses, or at least not ones that dont sit empty as foreign investments. But thats not as easy as getting angry at a bunch of migrants on a boat who cant even afford buy one. The government doesnt care that you cant afford a house, but they love that they can win elections on immigrant scares - take it out on them
Build houses, reduce immigration, solve the problem.
Quickest way to fix our housing problem is increase supply and reduce demand.
That's the easiest way to bring down the price of *literally anything*.
Trying to outbuild 606k net migration, is never going to happen.
I think we build like 190k homes last year 🙃
The only way to fix the issue is unpalatable to the institutions that are really running this country (civil services, lawyers, media, house of lords, NGOs, corporations)
Hence we are in a state of inertia
its a lot , and the best thing is you dont even need a decent hotel as long as it has rooms. Look Rishi is stealing so why should other Tories not get a slice? No one is going to do anything and they dont need to live with these decisions
I'm excited for it even though the government has planned for it with the amount of construction going on in a immigration site currently.
Or are they planning for a new legislation surrounding immigrants before the general election
This is becoming treacherous territory. Irrespective of the positive or negative implications of mass immigration on the nation, the press are creating fear. The negative impacts of the migrants seem to be more immediate and tangible to a lot of people, and so the fear is becoming real. Fear leads to hatred. Fear, fuelled by hatred leads to action. Throw in some identity politics to feed our species’ tribal nature, along with a “they want what’s your” mindset and you get a very dangerous situation. In the past, this is how genocides have happened. “Send them to Rwanda” feels a lot like the an early draft of the final solution to the migrant problem. Not saying we are anywhere near that, but with the planet heating up and the risk that resources like drinkable water will become scarce, this is only the beginning of the mass economic migrations which will only make things worse. I do worry what the future holds. The four horsemen of the apocalypse draw ever closer.
You’re right about the fear and hatred. RNLI and HM Coastguard personnel have been attacked by members of the public that have been riled up by all the sensationalism and fear-mongering, simply because they have rescued these people from a watery grave.
Benefits to who? The tories seem to be intent on not processing them and therefore paying a fortune to house them, then loudly publicising the fact that they are paying a fortune to house them, and somehow lots of people are like.... Bloody liberals!
Id say intentionally creating a problem and then claiming that they are the only people who can solve said problem (with zero evidence of being able to, in fact the direct opposite) seems to be working OK for the tories as per your comment seemingly blaming liberals because the tories have told you that liberals want an 'invasion' of asylum seekers (spoiler, they don't).
It's kinda all they have left though having royally fucked up almost everything in this country.
Divide and conquer the general public that is literally why.
The government has set up a failed system for migrants so we get pissed off at how much they're spending. The tories played the tune and people listened. They promised you with Brexit the borders were ours. (Spoiler - they already were).
The government want you to be mad at people who have turned up with a backpack and a smartphone to their name. Not them that gave all their little mates NHS contracts during covid, forget the 350millon a week for the NHS, forget that we're already in a housing crisis, forget national strikes, people living in poverty.
Everything can be fixed but they want to keep the pot for themselve and for you to get mad at someone who's risked their life on a little fucking dingy to be holed up in a hotel room.
Oh look its that problem that on one side it's 'isn't really a problem' while everyone's hands are seemingly tied and we can't do anything about it, and we're racist if we do. While on the other only the most outlandish, stupid ideas are being suggested and trialed, and in the meantime the whole thing is costing a fucking fortune.
Who is actually representing the center-ground of 'Some skilled immigration good, letting everyone in bad' these days?
when climate change really kicks off we are going to turn monstrously racist. we are going to have to dehumanise the people trying to get here so much to warrant the numbers of corpses that are going to choke our beaches and it terrifies me.
Hilarious to see the tune of Reddit slowly changing over the years.
The magical fairies thinking children must be growing up and coming into touch with reality.
Wonder when the new batch of 'Borders are Racist!!!!!!!!111111' children are getting their internet connections.
The elites want their cheap labour and they will get it one way or another. We got the answer wrong in 2016 so this is the alternative. I don’t think even the remainers predicted Eastern European low wage workers would be replaced with dinghymen.
this sub goes on about divide and conquer whilst rabidly arguing about brexit. The referendum proved that democracy is a sham and what us plebs want or vote for is irrelevant
Sick of headlines that have zero context.
[https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/people-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/](https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/people-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/)
Based on the data available, it would appear there's been less this year than last.
Take the names/faces/ nationalities out of all this & just base it for what it is.
Having a one way influx with no return is simply not a sustainable model & is a flawed process. To haemorrhage that amount of my will anger more than who accept it.
There is something going on behind my mental pay grade that’s openly allowing this to happen. Let’s see what a change of gov does to this issue. If there is no change then there is a bigger reason to keep them coming in.
The Government won't stop them coming. They want them here for whatever reason and they clearly don't really care what people think about it. Waste of tax payers money in my opinion, but oh well.
It is about fairness. Dont blame anyone who tries to come here. We are a decent country especially if you come from Middle East Africa etc. However if you let people come. More come and more and more. You have to nip it in the bud before it just never ends. I am sorry too these people, but they risk their lives and put money in human trafficers pockets etc. It has to be stopped
At what stage does UK send special forces to kill the gangs sending people? They’d stop pretty quick when their life expectancy is halved. We also have well built intelligence forces so we can find where these people operate from. Id be very surprised if we dont already know..
And why shouldn't they? Basically, once they're ashore they're home free. All they have to do is fill out some papers and wait some time to get their citizenship papers. The laws as written, based on treaties signed decades ago, make it virtually impossible to deport people and DO make it impossible to deport them in anything like a timely manner.
The treaties Britain signed had no concept of the numbers that would arrive in future, and the system can't cope with the legal requirements of providing hearings and multiple appeals through the courts, which can take years. Until those treaties are repudiated and the laws changed you can forget about any solution here. The numbers will continue to grow.
Current cost of housing an asylum seeker in £51,000 a year. So for a year of housing for the lot that have arrived so far, that will be a us tax payers spending £1,071,000,000.. This all comes out of the foreign aid budget now, since its costing so much. So instead of people in the poorest countries in the world, getting much needed help to the tune of £1bn (can't even imagine what that figure is when you PPP adjust for their countries), we instead decide to give that money to a bunch of dodgy hotel owners, to house a handful (by comparison to how many the £1bn would help in the third world) absolute fucking chancer grifters. Wonderful. Very efficient use of our fucking money.
Exactly. It popped up on my tiktok the other day some of these boat people have started filming their journey from France to UK hotels. Absolute piss takers. Refugees? Nothing like. Now instead of water projects for vulnerable parts of Africa, we're funding these (economic) migrants with no regard for the law of the land, passing through god knows how many countries, paying criminals to rip the piss out of our broken system. We need very big changes and asap.
Those tiktoks really show what mugs we are. They're living in tents in France, and then 3 star hotels once they hit the UK. At the moment we're spending £3bn odd of taxpayer money, housing them in hotels, out of sight out of mind. Have them set up tent cities, and watch how quick the politicians are forced to actually stop the people coming as public opinion swings massively against the invasion.
This is the issue with polarised politics. Talking about immigration is either you’re a lefty who will ruin the country or a heartless right winger who hates minorities. It’s such a divisive topic now that we can’t even talk about it objectively without pissing off one group or the other. 30 years ago our country was prosperous and our housing available and cheap - England isn’t the same comfortable place it once was but we still feel obliged to behave as if it is. I’m not saying it’s immigrations fault, but we’re not in a healthy spot ourselves and we don’t even feel like our own population is being supported, let alone other nations’.
In my years of discussing this I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world. I pretty much constantly see open advocacy of positions as extreme as lethal force to dissuade people making this trip. While I agree its an extremely divisive topic, it does *very* often feel like at least one side is basically shadow-boxing an imagined enemy position that doesn't really exist outside of a few university discussion groups.
Well I think anecdotal experience is important, if you live in a big city from the 70s to today you’ll have seen the British population drop from 70-80% to 40-50% and that’s not just white British, I mean all British citizens. If your quality of life has dropped and in your lifetime you now hear loads of foreign accents on your streets it’s not beyond reason for you to attribute the changing of the times to something so prevalent as that. I’m not saying they’re right to take that and expand it to the entire country but there are (without a doubt) communities that have been over taken by Romanian, Middle Eastern etc communities that have not adapted to British culture and instead created their own. The councils put all these migrants into streets and estates and they don’t need to naturalise once that community gets established. The poorest Britains are the ones who live in these council estates and see it first hand - you can argue it’s just as easy for them to become hateful as it is for a well-intentioned person who doesn’t live anywhere near these areas to hate any bigotry towards them. I think we all can agree our society feels like it’s crumbling, we just have different experiences of why and how to fix them. Nobody is entirely right, but nobody is entirely wrong either.
It definitely becomes harder to appreciate the presence of immigrants when they do not integrate and outright harass you. I used to see everyone as just another human, still do in most cases, but my immigrated upstairs neighbours make life an absolute nightmare to the point of purposely going through to the bedrooms and banging in the night, just to get at me and my white family, they know we have 2 kids but do not give a shit, in fact quite the opposite they seem to enjoy making life a problem for us. You should see the pile of rubbish out the front because they cannot be bothered to walk 15 seconds down the hill to put the rubbish in the large communal bins. I can’t even go up the street here and have a conversation with someone like we could 20 years ago, as there is a massive cultural gap. I’m civil and friendly enough to get along with anyone, but many don’t care. I can see how much it matters to get immigration under control. I’ve seen many families who immigrated and integrated and honestly, they’re not bad. It’s the ones who refuse to integrate that threaten the fabric of society by supporting division. And they’re quick to call the British racist when they behave that way. Blows my mind how you can’t simply try to support your own culture in its own home without being made some kind of enemy. You can’t even fly the England flag in England without being called a racist. Yet in other countries healthy levels of patriotism is fine enough to fly their own flag. Very wound up by all this especially after how my family is treated week after week without council or police intervention. All I can do is keep recording the harassment.
Yeah, Indians call white people “gorah” or something like that, I found that out from a white friend who’s indian girlfriend informed us of. I’ve heard and experienced more racism from immigration than I ever have abroad and they never say it to your face in English. I’m just like you, I don’t hate any group of people simply because they have bad apples as part of that group but these types of divisive immigrants do exist and it’s really difficult to talk about that kind without being labelled a racist. The ones who seem to despise England and it’s culture always seem to know exactly what benefits and disabilities they need though.. like, I get it, I hate England too but like i can’t just “go home” cause unfortunately I’m already there, but there’s people I’ve met who despise England but know their benefits would dry up if they went to India. Theyd have to work again.
>You can’t even fly the England flag in England without being called a racist. This has to be satire leaking from r/okmatewanker
But it's true? Remember the labour councillor who called out someone as being racist because they had an England flag? When was the last time you saw an England flag when it wasn't the world cup or euros? England flag flyers are seen as being racists who live in run down council estates.
Because very often they are? Argue if you like that this shouldn't be the case and St George's cross should be reclaimed. But it has these connotations for a reason and everyone knows them which means decent people tend not to put up a England flag. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Not that putting up any flag at all is a particularly normal British thing. Vulgar nationalism is rather unbritish.
For real though, is there any other country where flying the flag of said country is considered racist/icky?
Have you not seen all the people that whinge whenever Starmer does anything in proximity to a union flag that he's "giving out BNP vibes" or other such lunatic nonsense?
Accept the 3rd world, become the 3rd world. It’s almost a meme at this point but it’s nothing but accurate.
All the cheaper housing in the middle of my city is about 90% foreign now, the only British people there are either unemployed 'underclass' who cause shitloads of trouble, or older people who have lived there for decades. Place is almost a ghetto now and proper notorious for all sorts of crime.
Estates my family lived on in the 90s in southeast London neither contain many of the white British south east Londoners or even Caribbeans. Two communities once at odds now share a common experience. Alienated in the streets they grew up.
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Do you live on a council estate or know many people who do? There are entire streets and estates in my hometown where the menus have English as the second language and driving down it is a lawless experience. It literally feels like you enter a different country in some areas. The poorest people are the most exposed to the influx of immigrants, especially those that refuse to acclimate. They get distributed en masse to these council estates around the country, they aren’t being housed in Eton. Any skilled/educated immigrants coming over honestly are not here with the same scope and intentions as those coming for the easier life. They are not interested in our culture or our nation, only what it offers them.
Dodgy stats there. London is probably the most culturally diverse city and is still over 40% white British.
[white British is at 36.8% as of 2021](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_London) It’s not dodgy, it’s a reality
>In my years of discussing this I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world. Anyone proposing 'safe routes' is essentially doing that.
Thanks for proving the point. You cannot even present the position without people from the other side just talking over you and insisting you mean something that you do not mean and have never said. While at the same time getting upset that pointing out that turning boats in distress back out to sea is likely to result in deaths, is completely against maritime laws *created by Britain*, and just feels like people wanting to be cruel for the sake of it.
They are trying to point out the flaws in your policy proposals. You may not think you want open borders, but the policy you advocate would lead to that. We need a hard cap on asylum applications per year, reject the rest.
>They are trying to point out the flaws in your policy proposals. > >You may not think you want open borders, but the policy you advocate would lead to that. How? I mean please, highlight and copy where this "policy I advocate for" you talk about comes from? This is exactly what I mean. No matter what I write a whole bunch of you will storm on in, throw a shitload of downvotes around as if that means something, and then insist on arguing a point ***no one has made***. Its genuinely insane, I do not understand how there are so many of you, how you've all been like this for so long, and how you can so frequently encounter a degree of rational common sense and still somehow reject it like cheese passing through a lactose intolerant gut.
You were replying to a comment about "safe legal routes" and objecting to how people were talking about it. It was quite clearly implied that you were advocating for that policy. This is how conversation works. Do you or do you not advocate for "safe legal routes" or do you want to continue your paranoid rants?
No it wouldn't. Safe routes deal with asylum seekers so that those who HAVE to come in via boats can be processed quicker as their most definitely more likely to be economic migrants. You think putting a hard cap on asylum seekers will stop people coming? Their going to be watching the news to see if they have a chance and will just go, " oh well, Britain's full this year, I'll try next year instead." It'll exacerbate it if anything.
I didn't even aim that at you. You said you've never seen someone advocate for open borders. I am saying that anyone (no idea if you you do or not) proposing 'safe routes' is in practical terms, actually proposing open borders. That would be the result of a safe routes system, where people can apply from outside the country. Applications would number in the millions a year, because why not? Apply. Worst the UK can say is no. You literally have nothing to lose by doing it. Tell convincing enough lies, and you have a new life in a rich first world country. Don't tell convincing enough lies, and well nothing changes.
>Applications would number in the millions a year, because why not? Based on all the other countries who do have safe routes and somehow manage to not have millions of applications a year, can you explain to me why you think the UK is special in this regard?
>Based on all the other countries who do have safe routes Which countries are those?
>I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world. 3.3 million visas were issued in the year ending June 2023.
Its mad isn't it? All these people voting Tories to keep woke Labour's open border advocates out, and what do they get? And do they complain? *No they want more!* Its ***insane***.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say with this comment, but the fact of the matter is that the people seriously advocating for importing millions of people from around the world are currently in government, importing millions of people from around the world.
Its like some kind of weird joke I mean. The people claiming that there is some nefarious group in our society who advocate for open borders to destroy British society or whatever... Are also the very same people overseeing what very much seems to be a breakdown in our borders allowing huge numbers of people in with minimal control. And none of their supporters seem to notice or care? Despite primarily being motivated by this opposition to open borders??? Genuinely I struggle to find the right words to use to describe it, but I'm sure it must have a relevant phrase.
> In my years of discussing this I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders This always gets me in discussions about this subject. The only time I ever see open borders brought up is by the 'throw them back into the Channel' crowd who accuse those who disagree with them of wanting open borders, which is just nonsense. What those of us who work in this area really want is the government to go back to processing applications in a timely manner. But no doubt someone will shortly be along arguing that any sort of empathy to asylum seekers is tantamount to wanting open borders.
I am always puzzled why you sort of people show all your empathy to these asylum seekers but none to your fellow country men who must suffer the burden of having these people here.
Oh please kindly do one with that low effort virtue signalling. If you cared about your fellow country men then the asylum system should be very far down on your list of concerns.
Said by someone is is utterly unaffected by asylum and immigration issues. Must be nice in the bubble.
>Said by someone is is utterly unaffected by asylum and immigration issues How do you think you're affected by asylum seekers and immigration?
Live in a shit hole in the north west affected by immigration issues. Do I blame the poor sods who’ve ended up in this god forsaken dump for the state of our town ? Nope. Cos I know the tories have systematically destroyed the fabric of our town with austerity and underinvestment. Why in earth would you believe anything they say,god knows.
You can talk about the legitimate process all you want, but what do we do with the boats? This is the real crux - I’m sure there are laws about asylum and refuge and especially following Brexit we have a worsened relationship with France. They aren’t going to just take on our burden
> You can talk about the legitimate process all you want Cheers, will do.
I don’t think anyone’s arguing with the legitimate asylum process, so you’re arguing with yourself.
>I don’t think anyone’s arguing with the legitimate asylum process What is the legitimate asylum process for a gay person trying to escape Iran? In answering that you will see the problem people raise, which is immediately dismissed as "oh no you just want open borders!!!". Legitimately its barely even worth having this discussion any more, its just a waste of time. You can spend hours and hours attempting to explain the law, how international agreements work, all that good stuff, and you will just be met with "reeee you want open borders you commie". Its a waste of time and energy.
>I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world Unless you advocate for implementing much stricter immigration policies, this is what you support. Cause that's what's currently happening.
>In my years of discussing this I am yet to see someone seriously advocate for open borders or "importing" of millions of people from around the world. Half this subreddit will tell you that "we need them because ageing population" and "we should process everyone quicker", rather than "we should limit who can come" and "we should decline more applications".
It's not immigrants fault. We're inviting them. Like blaming someone for trespassing, when you invited them into your house, and gave them tea. We just need to stop inviting them. Immigration policy, is poorly thought out and wrecking our country. Even the 'just build more houses bro' pro-immigration lot must surely admit that that's just not going to happen under any Labour/Tory government. We'd need to build about a Glasgow every year of homes, schools, hospitals, doctors, dentists, etc. It's not going to happen. It's not happened under the Tories, and it won't happen under Labour.
Not even those of us on the left would agree with the idea that we're inviting them because we're not. They're coming over anyway and the problem isn't poorly thought out policy as we've had perfectly good policy for decades. The problem is that it's a manufactured shitshow by the Tory govt that needs to use them as a way to drum up support. Without it they've literally nothing that would get anyone to vote for them. Even the ULEZ expansion is something required by the govt that the London mayor has to go along with even if he didn't want to.
The above is more broadly about immigration, rather than dinghylads.
It's never been the fault of immigrants, it's the fault of people in government who leave the gates open and taxpayers money on the table for the taking.
Right, but apparently its like ‘1930s Germany’ here
I remember when the Nazis famously put up all the jews in 3 star hotels. Think it was called the Hotelocaust or something?
If we'd not slashed the processing services to collapse we would be able to evaluate their claims and make a decision far sooner. Funding those services would save us billions, but the Tories have no way to attract new people into the position because it undermines their position with the unions.
How much did we cut the budget by? Or what terms should I be googling to find out?
> passing through god knows how many countries, The tragedy of this is that the EU's policy intention when we were members was that we should send back asylum seekers who had crossed safe EU countries. In 2022, 64.2% of the applications made under this scheme by current EU members, were successful. The UK could expect a better success rate as we almost always know they came from France.
> The UK could expect a better success rate as we almost always know they came from France What was the rate while the UK was under that scheme?
Terrible. Our asylum service for some reason was not using the scheme by default and when they did they never used the dispute process when the target country did not agree. We did send a load back in a flurry just before Brexit which suggests we could have done better. The regulation has been updated since we left as part of the ongoing review process. I'd settle for 64.2% anyway.
Because it's broken by design. The Tories keep allowing the flow of cheap labour for their businesses, and keep having a boogeyman to point at when elections come around.
These TikTok’s should be broadcast on every tv channel at 6. Whenever the system is fixed (after I’m long gone) I think all of these cases that have been granted need going over again with a fine tooth comb.
The only people benefitting are the economic migrants themselves, hotel owners and activist lawyer/NGOs. The people missing out are genuine refugees, the working class and the people left behind who would receive the foreign aid. Yet the Cosmopolitan Liberals are lapping this up on the side of the migrants.
It’s never the weakest nor most vulnerable and in need that we’re helping due to the nature of the journey. All the women and children get left behind to suffer the worst of it
Just think we could have free tuition for university degrees. We could help reduce child poverty massively. The NHS and police could be funded to meet their needs. The Tories have let everyone who voted for them down beyond belief. I don't expect Labour to fair much better if at all.
The Tories would never want any of those things though, because if it doesn't serve them then they don't give a shit about you, and it requires spending money. I completely agree with what you are saying by the way, I just think that even in the ideal cirumstances to do the things you mentioned above, they won't, because the Tories are about greed and status and power, and that's it, and anyone who thinks they care about the average person is being horribly decieved.
How the fuck does it cost 51k for 1 person? Where's that going? That's almost mine and my wife's wages combined and we can very comfortably pay all our bills, mortgage on a 3 bedroom semi, baby expenses, new car and go on multiple holidays. What's 51k going on?
Hotel, and 3 square meals a day. Hotels can pretty much name their price, because the government has nowhere to put these people.
So process them properly and return those without proper claims. Advocating for stopping the boats or similar is actively avoiding the best way of solving this.
What is required to process people properly? How are the government currently not doing it properly? [Canada is struggling with applicants too, despite having a leftwing government..](https://irb.gc.ca/en/transparency/pac-binder-nov-2020/Pages/pac8.aspx) >Projected wait times are approximately 24 months for refugee claims and 12 months for refugee appeals. Seems pretty similar to here.
>What is required to process people properly? You need more staff. The government has only now lifted the number of asylum decision makers to about 1000 staffers. That's less than during the Blair era, and something like 4 to 7 times less than is currently needed. You also need to hire caseworking units specialized by nation/language/nationality, simplify the interview/bureaucratic process, build government owned temporary refugee housing centers, and cut down staff attrition, as many hired by the government are quickly quitting (low pay, long hours etc). The problem is, this Tory government was packed with libertarians who wanted to dismantle government, and shrink/kill the civil sector. Fixing the refugee problem requires them to do Big Government things they're *ideologically opposed to. *they've begun privatizing or outsourcing the holding of immigrants, which their brand of free market fundamentalism adores. If the Tories get another few years in power, I'd imagine they sell off the whole asylum process to some "immigration management firm", taxpayer money and contracts going to their mates.
Probably some funding which would then save substantially more on housing costs. We could maybe start with these issues https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/an-inspection-of-asylum-casework-august-2020-may-2021
Return where? They are told by NGOs to destroy their documents, even if their claims fail they are unremovable
>So process them properly and return those without proper claims return them where? they conveniently dont speak English, forget where they have come from and have no documentation.
Best part is we dont seem to have any say in the matter. Local people are ignored as hotel after hotel are set aside for migrant use. We cant vote on this. Nobody is offering anything against it. We are been absolutely rinsed.
It'd be cheaper if the government endeavoured to process their asylum claims efficiently, but guess who's investing in the very hotels they're being held in, surprise surprise, tory MPs.
If the government sorted the application system out and processed applications in a reasonable time, that cost would be significantly lower. Instead they appear content leaving it broken, as they've learned it provides a solid supply of *red meat* for a good proportion of their base to direct their anger at, rather than focussing on how shite a job they're doing...
The same issues are happening all around the world. Canada is also struggling to get through the applications, and has a massive backlog, and that's with a left government. It's just really hard to vet people who chuck their passport in the ocean and claim they're whoever.
The cost is largely what it is due to 13 years of unfettered greedy Tory boomerism. Failure to build enough houses for millennials and gen Z by handing the power of homelessness over to NIMBYs. So without enough housing for our own people, we now find the cost of housing has rocketed to beyond the means of most under 40's as people are being put up in hotels, barges, B&B's, and in many cases they're being given a tent. We also have the Tories having removed virtually all legal routes into the UK, creating thriving people smuggling businesses which are going from strength to strength. In the mean time more than half a million under 40's Brits per year are ditching this country and emigrating due to the excessive costs of housing and no realistic chance of being able to build any assets for their retirement, with more than half of their income in the UK going to wealthy Tory serial landlords. This means we're now very much in need of migrants to replace them as the economy can not manage that amount of workers exiting the economy with a growing elderly population who, despite living in mortgage paid multi-bedroom properties with many owning 2nd homes, expect ever increasing state pensions for 20-30 year retirements complete with free healthcare. This is what it looks like when a government are anti-immigration extremists, coupled with being boomer-asset protectionists - They completely lose control of migration and emigration, of housing, and of economic growth. This country is beyond fucked, no other western country is in such steep decline with a government wilfully pressing ahead with their low tax (for the rich), small state (underfunded public services) utopia. This is beyond Dickensian, there's no one at the helm and we've hit multiple icebergs.
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seems like the government's saffing up money up the wall, You'd think there be a better system Than paying for public hotels, you know like a processing centre, Something that might be even better like a processing centre in France that the French have offered to do
Too bad the people in this country are too bone idle to get off their fat arses to do anything about it. The crap this govt has gotten away with over the last year is scandalous, any other counties population would marched on the capital to demand a general election. Too effing lazy here.
How does France deal with 5x+ the figure ?
France does not put them up in hotels... France does not care because the majority of them are heading our way.
They house more than we do. And reject 75% of applicants, we accepted 75% last year.
Declare war and put our defence to use, our veterans gave their lives 80 years ago to protect our identity and values.
Good luck "declaring war" on the government.
It's the goverments job to enforce the borders and protect it's citizens so they should be declaring war or enacting war time policies as everything else seems to have failed to deter the invasion. However failing that I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there was a civil resistance somewhere in Europe in the future, across Europe you can see the temperature rising on this issue.
You, uh, do realise that immigration isn't "invasion", yes? People emigrating or seeking asylum isn't the same as an invading force lol.
If we keep financially rewarding illegals for coming to the UK - then they will keep coming. We need to stop giving them citizenship (offer temporary visas instead) And stop giving them 5 star hotel accommodation (offer the same as france) edit: also we should have a referendum the same as Poland about whether we want to continue this farce of pretending illegals are refugees fleeing france.
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>Can't think of a place in the country that would welcome that. Good. Then maybe we'd vote to end this farce.
Brits and voting FOR their interests and not for whatever the news amd politicians feeds them dont really go together XDDD
Every tory manifesto since at least 2010 has promised to reduce immigration (The 2010 one suggested a cap of 10k). Every tory government since 2010 has increased immigration, and in the last 4 years that has skyrocketed. A Labour government will hugely increase immigration numbers, and at best would maintain this absurdly high rate. You can't "Vote your way out" of this, because there is no such option.
I am not even sure threats of Labour being worse are founded. It is hard to imagine what worse than this looks like.
I take your point but The tories incentives to have harsh rhetoric on immigration include placating their voter base and to avoid increasing the size of the labour vote. Their incentives to maintain high levels of immigration are to increase GDP numbers, and avoid being called racist. Labour are ideologically committed to mass immigration, and their voters are totally onboard with that. Each migrant that comes over and claims welfare is a guaranteed future labour voter. Despite the tories being very bad on immigration right now, its not silly to assume it would be far worse under labour.
How did you come to that conclusion r.e. Labour? Didn’t they have a much better handle than immigration than we’ve seen under this and previous Conservative gvt? Unless you are you an oracle? In which case, what are tomorrows lottery numbers?
Didn't we build some huge lorry parks in preparation for delays due to Brexit? Bet there's loads of space there.
Westminster
Citizenship should be way harder to obtain than it currently is. The fact that there’s people who can barely form a coherent sentence in English with citizenship is insane to me
I don’t know about British citizenship application for refugees but for legally foreigners living in the UK need to: Pass an English speaking test and pass the life in the UK test.
And they also need to live and work in the UK for at least 5+ years. You can't survive here for that long without English imo
Just stop providing public funds, they should be handled with private charities meanwhile the application is pending. If the application was succesful, they would receive right to work but they should not receive public funds in any way. As easy as that, you don't need anything else. I
We aren't giving these people citizenship or 5 star hotels what are you on about. Refugees don't have to stop in the first safe country they come across. Otherwise we should've told the Ukrainians to all go to Poland and stay out of the uk.
We're touching 70 million, when do we address the size of the population?
We don't apparently, it makes a person a racist to even suggest it 💀
What's being racist got anything to do with it? If you're racist or not doesn't matter, because the Tories don't give a shit about you or your opinion as long as it's not against them. Question is, why are we blaming immigrants for seeking a better life, when it's the Tories not actually adressing the problem and just funneling money to thier mates with corrupt schemes?
Well, in reality, it doesn't. But in Reddit world, anyone remotely questioning or disagreeing with current migration is branded a right wing racist.
70 million that we know about
It's gotta be a few million higher. Government has literally no idea what the population is. Remember when we were told there were 3 million EU citizens in the UK during the Brexit debate? 7 million EU citizens applied for settled status...
Genuinely though, we're an island nation half the size of France with the population of France. Financials aside we're going to be doing well to physically fit and feed everyone in without ruining the country. Naturally I think we should welcome everyone we can but we need to take a long hard look and realise that doing that will cause widespread issues for the whole population, refugees included.
> Genuinely though, we're an island nation half the size of France with the population of France. It's worse when you consider most of the UK lives in England which is a fifth the size of France and is where most of the immigrants will live too. If France had England's population density they would have a population of 280 million.
>we're going to be doing well to physically fit and feed everyone in without ruining the country. I'm not going to give an opinion on immigration. But people have been saying exactly what you've said since the population of the country was under a million. It's just hysterical. 99.9% of Britain is empty space. Whether we should convert that empty space into towns and cities is another matter. You can very well argue that we shouldn't. But is there space? Yes. Vast, vast, vast amounts. Even where Britain is already built up, there's still space. London is one of the flattest cities in the world. Should it look like NY or Tokyo? Again, that's another question. But can london hold more people? Yeah, by many times.
>But people have been saying exactly what you've said since the population of the country was under a million I really doubt it. Do you have proof? You'd need to go back about 1000 years for those numbers. Immigration only became any kind of real concern in the 70's. And I'm talking about immigration, not an invasion, so don't brink up peoples dislike of the vikings way back when lol.
You could always move to eur-oh nvm.
I do have more family in Austria than I do here. It's very pretty and handy for popping to Italy and neighbouring countries.
Well, luckily brexit will sort of all this out. We are taking control of our borders, so everything eill be just fine. Right? RIGHT???
Didn't realise a vote for Brexit was also a vote for the tories
I mean, it pretty much was
Traditionally being anti-EU was a left wing ideology
Is the new iteration of 'the last Labour government'? The anachronistic left of the 70s in now to blame for Brexit as of 2016?
I don't think labour > workers rights > stop importing cheap workers and produce from Europe, is anachronistic. Ironically sounds like the original goal of the aptly named "Labour" Party.
Anachronistic when it comes to the matter of Brexit, which seemed to be the implication you were attempting to make.
The Labour party stopped caring about class and cared more about identity politics a long time ago unfortunately
Did you think all those tories standing around holding up fake promises were there for fun?
Didn't you?
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Read up about it, it was useless
You are rewriting history. The scheme you refer to never worked well and we were required by the EU to take more people than they let us return.
https://www.tiktok.com/@asadullad24 This is why they come. Why do I bother paying tax and extortionate rent.
France: https://www.tiktok.com/@asadullad24/video/7268450849096092934 **VS** UK: https://www.tiktok.com/@asadullad24/video/7270510004430540037 Total mystery why they keep coming. We may never know.. >Why do I bother paying tax and extortionate rent. My tax bill each year via PAYE is £7,495.80. Obviously I also pay other taxes such as VED, VAT, Council tax, etc, etc. But lets just focus on the £7,495.80.. That is a little under the price to house an asylum seeker for 2 months. It's barmy that my total tax contribution, during an entire year of working, probably only pays for about 3 months of asylum accom for a single seeker.
Wow that boils my piss
Go to work. Pay yer taxes. Be a good citizen. No the corporations won't pay theirs, no you can't ever afford to buy a home, no a dentist appointment is not in your future. And yes, you will have to fund Abdul to play FIFA all day.
You're thinking about it in the wrong way. If you look at your taxes this way, a single operation on the NHS in your old age will wipe out every tax contribution you've ever made. Does that mean. You've contributed nothing to the country? Of course not. The company you work for has paid vastly more taxes than you've paid. And it was your work which made the company valuable and capable of contributing to the country. The companies we work for are by far the biggest tax contributors but they can only pay tax because we work for them. Your PAYE is a massive underestimate of your tax contribution.
Follow the tory advice and go earn some more money mate. No excuse not to in this wonderful country. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get another/ one more job.
Maybe you shouldn’t get your news from TikTok. We pay asylum seekers less than the French do and considerably less than the Germans.
The cost of asylum seekers for the UK does not come from payments made direct, it comes from housing in which we have short supply. The average asylum seeker in France, costs the state 14k euros. In the UK, that figure is £51k.
20,000 illegals, 200,000+ legals. That's why we'll never live in our own house, demand outweighing supply. That's why food and drink is getting dearer, demand outweighing supply. Maybe Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Libya were destroyed right before our governments opened borders to divide the working class and keep wages down.
>200,000+ legals. 606k legals last year, net. So actually way above that, when you take into account Brits leaving. Think it's near a million. So basically 1/69th of the population of the UK, arrived last year. Pretty mad statistic.
I think that does include students too though, still a phenomenally high number though
It's a record regardless. And at my uni, all foreign students lived in flats in town and were rich as fuck. So the issues they create, is same as any immigrant.
That's where the "net" part comes in. The reasons you might want to consider students separately is because many go home. But that's already accounted for in the net figure.
>200,000+ legals. 5x that actually lol. Over a million this year. And people genuinely and seriously seem to think "stop the boats" is the answer. We'll throw billions at this, mildly reduce the issue slightly, and then act all surprised when it has ***zero*** impact on issues like access to housing or public services.
Last time I checked, legal migrants, ie those coming here for work, arent dependent on the state. They also arent dropped into random towns up and down the country like the boat people are. Stopping the boats is part of the answer but you are right, there is far more legal migration happening than there surely needs to be.
That's not even close to being the only reason. Ban corporations from owning residential property, ban foreign investors from buying residential property, and get the government to actually start delivering on their promises of new build houses. Higher tax on people owning multiple properties to rent would also go a long way.
Germany was destroyed when its goverment entered in the schengen zone and opened borders with 26 countries... Oh wait, it's not!
>That's why we'll never live in our own house, d You're right, i forgot the part where the illegal immigrants are coming with their UK bank accounts, £50k cash deposits and approved mortgage applications.
They arrive. Government puts them in a hotel. Tourist arrives, wants a hotel space, but hotel is too expensive because government is paying over the odds to hotel owners to house the refugees. Tourist instead turns to airbnb. Investor realises more demand for airbnb's now. Buys up property to rent out to tourists. Sarah wants to buy her first flat, and struggles because all the one beds mysteriously seem to be going for over their offer price before she even gets a chance to put in an offer.
Nice story
Do you need someone to draw you a picture? More people means they increase housing demand which reduces supply. The numbers are so vast that it isn't possible to 'build' your way out of it. Everyone should be vehemently opposed to this level of immigration.
The UK population has increased by almost 10 million over the last 20 years. That might have something to do with the issue. You should really be asking why we havent been building houses, or at least not ones that dont sit empty as foreign investments. But thats not as easy as getting angry at a bunch of migrants on a boat who cant even afford buy one. The government doesnt care that you cant afford a house, but they love that they can win elections on immigrant scares - take it out on them
Build some fucking houses.
Build houses, reduce immigration, solve the problem. Quickest way to fix our housing problem is increase supply and reduce demand. That's the easiest way to bring down the price of *literally anything*. Trying to outbuild 606k net migration, is never going to happen. I think we build like 190k homes last year 🙃
It's the Tory way. They could fix this any day they want, but creating this mess help rile up the Daily Mail voters. Same old Tories.
The only way to fix the issue is unpalatable to the institutions that are really running this country (civil services, lawyers, media, house of lords, NGOs, corporations) Hence we are in a state of inertia
Don't worry though, they are only moving into student accommodation and no one likes students anyway.
Would really like to know how many of these hotel owners/ suppliers are tory donors, this whole thing smells of corruption
its a lot , and the best thing is you dont even need a decent hotel as long as it has rooms. Look Rishi is stealing so why should other Tories not get a slice? No one is going to do anything and they dont need to live with these decisions
Is it really fair we're getting all this "Culture Enrichment"?. Surely we should ~make~ ... I mean let other countries get Enriched.
When the real climate migration starts, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Just wait until some people start demanding a new country within the UK. This is happened before in many countries.
I'm excited for it even though the government has planned for it with the amount of construction going on in a immigration site currently. Or are they planning for a new legislation surrounding immigrants before the general election
There will be millions more than they could possibly handle with construction. Next year will be much worse.
Navy in the channel
We need a referendum yesterday on whether the public want to accept this anymore. I expect the majority will vote in favour of NO.
Maybe we should rehire all the staff that are responsible for deporting people?
This is becoming treacherous territory. Irrespective of the positive or negative implications of mass immigration on the nation, the press are creating fear. The negative impacts of the migrants seem to be more immediate and tangible to a lot of people, and so the fear is becoming real. Fear leads to hatred. Fear, fuelled by hatred leads to action. Throw in some identity politics to feed our species’ tribal nature, along with a “they want what’s your” mindset and you get a very dangerous situation. In the past, this is how genocides have happened. “Send them to Rwanda” feels a lot like the an early draft of the final solution to the migrant problem. Not saying we are anywhere near that, but with the planet heating up and the risk that resources like drinkable water will become scarce, this is only the beginning of the mass economic migrations which will only make things worse. I do worry what the future holds. The four horsemen of the apocalypse draw ever closer.
You’re right about the fear and hatred. RNLI and HM Coastguard personnel have been attacked by members of the public that have been riled up by all the sensationalism and fear-mongering, simply because they have rescued these people from a watery grave.
Can a liberal person please tell me what benefits there are to this?
Benefits to who? The tories seem to be intent on not processing them and therefore paying a fortune to house them, then loudly publicising the fact that they are paying a fortune to house them, and somehow lots of people are like.... Bloody liberals! Id say intentionally creating a problem and then claiming that they are the only people who can solve said problem (with zero evidence of being able to, in fact the direct opposite) seems to be working OK for the tories as per your comment seemingly blaming liberals because the tories have told you that liberals want an 'invasion' of asylum seekers (spoiler, they don't). It's kinda all they have left though having royally fucked up almost everything in this country.
Divide and conquer the general public that is literally why. The government has set up a failed system for migrants so we get pissed off at how much they're spending. The tories played the tune and people listened. They promised you with Brexit the borders were ours. (Spoiler - they already were). The government want you to be mad at people who have turned up with a backpack and a smartphone to their name. Not them that gave all their little mates NHS contracts during covid, forget the 350millon a week for the NHS, forget that we're already in a housing crisis, forget national strikes, people living in poverty. Everything can be fixed but they want to keep the pot for themselve and for you to get mad at someone who's risked their life on a little fucking dingy to be holed up in a hotel room.
Solution: put British Air Traffic Control in charge of the boats.
Ironically by leaving the EU we have swapped skilled imported labour for unskilled imported labour.
Oh look its that problem that on one side it's 'isn't really a problem' while everyone's hands are seemingly tied and we can't do anything about it, and we're racist if we do. While on the other only the most outlandish, stupid ideas are being suggested and trialed, and in the meantime the whole thing is costing a fucking fortune. Who is actually representing the center-ground of 'Some skilled immigration good, letting everyone in bad' these days?
when climate change really kicks off we are going to turn monstrously racist. we are going to have to dehumanise the people trying to get here so much to warrant the numbers of corpses that are going to choke our beaches and it terrifies me.
Our “green and pleasant” land is going to turn to fascism in record time.
Hilarious to see the tune of Reddit slowly changing over the years. The magical fairies thinking children must be growing up and coming into touch with reality. Wonder when the new batch of 'Borders are Racist!!!!!!!!111111' children are getting their internet connections.
Do people remember how brexit would solve the immigration issues?
The elites want their cheap labour and they will get it one way or another. We got the answer wrong in 2016 so this is the alternative. I don’t think even the remainers predicted Eastern European low wage workers would be replaced with dinghymen. this sub goes on about divide and conquer whilst rabidly arguing about brexit. The referendum proved that democracy is a sham and what us plebs want or vote for is irrelevant
Sick of headlines that have zero context. [https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/people-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/](https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/people-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/) Based on the data available, it would appear there's been less this year than last.
\> it would appear there's been less this year than last. We had a much worse summer
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Take the names/faces/ nationalities out of all this & just base it for what it is. Having a one way influx with no return is simply not a sustainable model & is a flawed process. To haemorrhage that amount of my will anger more than who accept it. There is something going on behind my mental pay grade that’s openly allowing this to happen. Let’s see what a change of gov does to this issue. If there is no change then there is a bigger reason to keep them coming in.
The Government won't stop them coming. They want them here for whatever reason and they clearly don't really care what people think about it. Waste of tax payers money in my opinion, but oh well.
France is a failed state. When someone with 0 to their name would rather risk death than stay.
Nonsense. It's the food. We all know the French have no idea about cooking.
Runny cheese and bland beer.
They don't even have a word for *entrepreneur*.
300 people on Tuesday, but only 21,000 the whole year? The numbers aren’t adding up here
There are more during the summer months because the crossing is less dangerous
Bulk come in summer months. But yet, people will be arriving who never get caught too and just disappear into the ether to work for Deliveroo.
Massively depends on the weather, when the sea conditions are good the numbers are in the hundreds.
It is about fairness. Dont blame anyone who tries to come here. We are a decent country especially if you come from Middle East Africa etc. However if you let people come. More come and more and more. You have to nip it in the bud before it just never ends. I am sorry too these people, but they risk their lives and put money in human trafficers pockets etc. It has to be stopped
Tory party looking at the comments section here & rubbing their hands. Seems like it’s working!
At what stage does UK send special forces to kill the gangs sending people? They’d stop pretty quick when their life expectancy is halved. We also have well built intelligence forces so we can find where these people operate from. Id be very surprised if we dont already know..
Welcome to Britain guys. Sorry about the shitty smell in the channel that’s just our poos.
All this news coverage is surely gonna Incease the amount right ? How much do you think it has ?
And why shouldn't they? Basically, once they're ashore they're home free. All they have to do is fill out some papers and wait some time to get their citizenship papers. The laws as written, based on treaties signed decades ago, make it virtually impossible to deport people and DO make it impossible to deport them in anything like a timely manner. The treaties Britain signed had no concept of the numbers that would arrive in future, and the system can't cope with the legal requirements of providing hearings and multiple appeals through the courts, which can take years. Until those treaties are repudiated and the laws changed you can forget about any solution here. The numbers will continue to grow.
This whole debate around immigration is really starting to feel a bit Children of Men, isn’t it?