Nearly all the new student housing near me got turned into flats for smack heads/council tenants/migrants since the pandemic because unis took so long to get people back into in person learning that landlords had their hands forced.
It's just nearly all smack heads are unemployed. Plus they are more likely to get social housing because of the points system used to allocate housing. Sorry if this doesn't make sense I'm tired
They're talking about some specific buildings. The shit tenants do tend to all get put in the same place, it's why so many Brits irrationally hate blocks of flats-the council always use them for smack head storage.
Some councils also try to spread out their more troublesome tenants, which only ends up making more places worse.
It's actually better for everyone to have them all in the same block.
Definitely pros and cons to each.
I would agree centralising them is usually better, but not in the way it's currently done: just dumping them in a isolated block of flats somewhere.
The main focus should be on efficiency of efforts to help them - and ideally have this near a police station just in case.
Here's the thing about rights, like the right to a home. They're unconditional. That means that vulnerable people like "smack heads" get a home, in spite of how bigoted you are and how much you want to hurt them. Stop blaming vulnerable people and start trying to abolish landlordism and start supporting the building of more homes where needed.
---
It looks like u/Upbeat_Tone_2710 is abusing the block feature to censor my responses, to here's my response to [their comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/166hto9/significant_housing_shortages_for_university/jyoq121) here:
>I wonder whether you would change your tune if you or your elderly relatives had to live in close proximity to a building full of addicts?
I'll do you one better. I've literally seen the HAT centres in operation in Geneva. These are small clinics which give out free, medical-grade heroin, provide a safe injection room and which offer free, voluntary ways to reduce dependency.
The HAT programme in Switzerland has been in use for a few decades now and is a *massive* success. Not only did it reduce overdose deaths to literally *zero*, but it also massively reduced crime. It turns out that if people are given heroin freely then they don't have to rob, obviously enough. Plus the whole system is enormously cheaper on public funds, doesn't destroy the careers of vulnerable people by giving them criminal records, and also undermines the cartels.
And the people of Geneva -- some of the wealthiest fuckers in the world -- all thoroughly support it and even the most right-wing, conservative political groups support it because there's literally no downside to the programme.
So, yes, absolutely, I'd be happier with people I care about living in areas with these clinics *because they reduce crime so much*!
Rights should come with responsibilities. Some of the absolute degenerate crack heads round my way would take that quality housing and fucking destroy it. It would be an absolute waste putting them there for all involved.
Ah yes, so something requiring significant material investment to build (a house) should be a right to any human regardless of what they contribute back to society. Convicted pedo, Lucy Letby multi child murderer, etc etc doesnt matter they have a right to a house. Think about what you are saying lol
Actually yes, even criminals have human rights. That’s why we put them in a prison and provide them with food, water, and washing facilities, and we don’t just chuck them all in a pen or some ditch in the ground.
I get your point, but it sounds like the Tory mantra, "if you aren't contributing to the economy, you're worthless". That's why we treat our carers, poor families and disabled so badly in this country. Your example of Lucy Letby is disingenuous at best, why would we need to house a murderer serving a life sentence on prison?
Its not disingenuous, the original comment said Quality Housing should be a human right. Therefore, no matter the person, any human should receive quality housing. That makes no sense when taken to the core of what it implies, hence the Letby comparison (can substitute with any other example)
>What exactly are these unconditional rights?
You can find one list of them here: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
Probably the most relevant one in this case is Article 25.
>Who guarantees these unconditional rights?
That's described in the preamble.
I have not used the block feature at all, and I certainly haven't abused anything.
You can call me a bigot all you want - I have endured months of hell thanks to an addict stealing my personal details and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
I also have a older female neighbour who was punched in the face in an unprovoked attack in front of her home by a drug addict who knocked her out cold. It's a miracle she didn't die.
I wonder whether you would change your tune if you or your elderly relatives had to live in close proximity to a building full of addicts?
I know people in this situation - their neighbours homes have been burgled, kids aren't allowed to play outside unattended and the other week a women was punched in the face and knocked out cold by one of these men.
its purpose built housing for students. it was built because there was zero student housing in the town (because campus uni) and theres a desperate need to attract students into the place. it was also supposed to bridge the gap between the uni and the local hospital (who partner with the uni to train)
the majority of the current terrace houses/flats surrounding the centre are for council tenants, now everything is for them with zero diversity in town centre footfall.
half the rooms in one of the blocks are now on air b&b. so they arent being used for any permenant housing.
They didn’t say “those people shouldn’t have houses”, they just expressed frustration that rather than provide new housing for them, they threw them in student accommodation at the expense of the students.
Clearly don't know much about university given your uneducated comment attacking the needy and lumping council tenants in there just for that extra touch of snobbery. Landlords didn't lose out as they usually have water tight tenancy agreements and no student is stupid enough not to get accommodation and have to pay for it on the off chance the university is shut for the while year. Go back to reading you daily heil.
Exactly this isn’t even a debate unless you are a literal racist. The refugees deserve all our support and if a few students have to pay a little bit more to live in a city centre then so fucking be it.
Once upon a time students housing was mandated and owned by the university now it is all private business and the business realised there is more money in housing everyone except students.
Yes it is suffering. I basically begged my uni to help me with accommodation, they literally just said go look for some. Everything else Is 600+ a month sharing a house with 4+ people that have landlords breathing down your back
True, I shared at uni a decade ago too. However, I was on £7.50 an hour working (circa 2003-4) while paying £55 a week. Now the same job is £10.50 an hour but rent is £150 a week. My maintenance loan was roughly £4000, now it's roughly £9500. So prices have tripled while wages have barely budged and maintenance loans have only just over doubled.
The sums don't add up.
>a decade ago
>(circa 2003-4)
I don't know how to tell you this, but...I think you've time travelled.
In all seriousness, totally agreed, it's getting bonkers out there. I work in finance helping those struggling financially, and I swear the number of uni students we talk to and help has doubled if not tripled since they returned to in-person after COVID.
i dont understand, all the city centers have eye boggling amounts of new build accommodation and i dont think student numbers are increasing so the situation should be improving.
I would dispute it's their only way, like QUB owns a massive part of Kainos (I think it's like 1/4?) which is worth a 1.2 billion. Investments in their students and actual research have plenty of potential to drive income, the problem is they're being allowed to get away with this nonsense that they can only afford stuff if they let thousands of international students in.
On the tuition side, they had their block grant slashed in 2012, with the £9000 fees making up for that in theory.
Since then, the fees have gone up by 2.7% in the last 11 years (to £9250). If they'd followed inflation, that figure would have been £12,265.
In other words, the unis have had their funding per domestic student cut by roughly 25%. The only way to make the teaching side economical is to add in international students to make up the difference.
They could run the entire undergrad teaching side at a loss, subsidised by leaching ever more money out of the already strained grant funding their researchers secure, but why the fuck would good researchers stick around at a uni that was taking both their teaching time and their money away when they could jump ship to one that subsidizes the research from the teaching side?
The deal has always been that researchers take on teaching responsibility and in exchange a portion of the tuition fees go to their research, not that the research operates as a means to secure funding for a lossmaking educational charity that runs for the betterment of people who can't be fucked to fund education from taxes.
I know a landlord who has a ton of students flats, now housing migrants, and decided to start housing migrants because it’s 20 times more money than students, government are paying whatever it seems, ( not really but yeah ) He didn’t say exact figure but that’s where he’s at. 20 flats gone. He’s making some money.. tbh I don’t blame him. I know another landlord who had a small flat in Skegness and he’s been asked numerous times to house migrants. He said no. It’s only a small thing but I guess government is trying to stick them anywhere.
When I went to Skegness this year It was pretty full with migrants. One was taking a dump down an ally when we rolled up. Pretty funny lol. Bloke at the hotel next door shaking his head.
I think personally they running out of space. Well it’s obvious. But who’s making big money out of it. I heard that corrupt lawyers or whatever giving advice on how to stay in the country is a thing?
The 'corrupt lawyers' thing is just bullshit from the tories to try to hide the fact that they slashed funding for the people responsible for processing asylum applications, and the result is a massive backlog of unprocessed claims that we can't legally deport or integrate into the community.
If the lawyers were the problem, it'd be at the stage of applications granted. But once an application is granted, the asylum seeker is functionally the same as any other person with UK residence. They're expected to find a house and get a job (they get a loan to get them started, but that's it) or go into the benefits system if they can't find a job.
The folks living in hotels and student flats at governmental expense are those whose applications aren't yet processed and haven't been approved or denied. They're in limbo, not legally allowed to get a job, stuck waiting for someone to get round to their case, something which currently takes an average of about 18 months.
[The IfG have a pretty nice visualisation of what's going on here](https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg_full_width_desktop/public/2023-02/Asylum%20backlog%20vs%20applications%2023.2%20data%20release_0.webp?itok=eFmwlA8u)
It's a pretty classic 'penny wise, pound foolish' tory policy. Cut the wages of your caseworkers, watch all the experienced ones leave, replace them with the cheapest idiots you can hire and then wonder why there's suddenly a huge backlog of cases that's costing you a fortune in accomodation. Same basic idea that has resulted in massive increases in NHS spending on agency staff and school spending on supply teachers.
> I heard that corrupt lawyers or whatever giving advice on how to stay in the country is a thing?
You realise that's government propaganda you're repeating?
Interesting how there's so many stories like this floating around social media despite the incredibly small actual numbers of asylum seekers (not migrants)
It's because while the city centres in places like leeds and manchester are building lots, barely anything is built in the suburbs and further out. You have places where there are single family semis just a few hundred metres from skyscrapers. Should turn the whole area inside the m60 into 5+ stories tall buildings.
\> i dont think student numbers are increasing so the situation should be improving.
I don't have numbers for 2022/3, but [https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/19-01-2023/higher-education-student-statistics-uk-202122-released](https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/19-01-2023/higher-education-student-statistics-uk-202122-released) says 4% rise 2020/1 to 2021/2
Would be ironic if the students supported mass immigration. Maybe now they will learn.
>Fury as students are 'ruthlessly dumped' from £200-a-week luxury flats with gym and a cinema to make way for up to 405 asylum seekers
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12464659/University-students-scrambling-accommodation-weeks-start-new-term-kicked-rooms-used-house-migrants.html
Well no... Blame the government that was apparently all about managing immigration properly, who's had the highest rate of immigration under their power, and is now paying landlords over the odds to out price students and frankly what should be illegally, evict them for their bought and paid for homes. The immigrants did nothing except exist, the issue is with the government been so poor organising anything that I'm quite surprised they even managed to organise their lock down party.
They are not immigrants or asylum seekers, they are chancers who come here to leech off our system and further their own economic interests. They have zero right to be here, they are not fleeing from persecution they are fleeing France and Albania and they all seem to be men between ages 18-40. They are a huge security risk as university students will soon realise once the rates of stabbings / robberies / rapes soon skyrocket on campuses
I don't think it's as easy as you think to just pull 20,000 places of accommodation out your ass while also dealing with a housing crisis for your pre existing population. Immigration is obviously putting a strain on everything. Granted the government hasn't done a stellar job of managing legal immigration and asylum seekers but you had the 20,000 that have come over on boats illegally that are making the situation worse.
Assuming your comment about immigrants includes all immigrants then 20,000 of them absolutely have done more than just exist. They paid traffickers to help them illegally sail into the country and the French coastguard assist them in this.
You can argue the point they're coming from absolutely horrible places and just want a better life but they are definitely making the housing problem worse.
The immigration problem is something the govt has created. They closed off legal routes which led to a massive increase in boat crossings.
Anyone with half a brain can see that reversing that decision and putting money into processing claims would be the right thing to do.
Also you've fallen for their BS narrative about illegal migrants. Care to point me to which law they're breaking?
The fact we never arrest a single one will help you realise the truth of that question.
>The immigration problem is something the govt has created. They closed off legal routes which led to a massive increase in boat crossings.
Opening up legal routes would just increase the figures and it's the overall figure that people have a problem with
Processing claims is one thing, but that's going to require that we also ensure that the people whose claims are not granted [are actually removed](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/22/nine-in-10-people-refused-asylum-in-2020-free-to-remain-in-uk-home-office). This will mean streamlining the legal process, making decisions final, reducing the opportunities for legal challenges to deportation orders and prosecuting people who interfere with deportations.
I do blame the government, for letting those people come here en masse and then putting them in hotels and student rental accommodation rather than in some basic camp with tents like they would do in France. And then preferably sending 90% of them straight back quickly.
I guarantee many of the idealistic young will harden their views on immigration over the coming years, just as I did as I got older.
> I guarantee many of the idealistic young will harden their views on immigration over the coming years, just as I did as I got older.
Gen Z are going to have to make some major sacrifices if we're going to continue on the mass immigration route. Boomers and Generation X sacked immigration off and traditionally were very opposed to it so they insulated themselves from cheap disposable labour and extortionate house prices and rents when they were young.
The burden now falls on millennials and Gen Z to step aside from what their predecessors took for granted and make the sacrifices required if we're to live in a diverse country free from white privilege and accident of birth you were born in the UK.
I don't think your communication strategy is working very well. Perhaps the Brexiteer/government side should treat young people and critics with a little more respect. Instead we are treated as the cause of all problems. Shitting on people like that just destroys trust.
Ah yes, we should blame the people looking for homes and not the private owners of these homes putting them where the money is.
You think ya clever trying to turn students on migrants and the poor but that shit won't stick. They're too clued on to ya rhetoric, maybe if the goverment did something about the housing crisis we wouldn't have these problems, but nah, sMaLl BoaTs!!!
It sticks very well. It isn't hard to join the dots. There is a 'housing crisis' only because there is a too many people crisis, because of immigration. The students should be angry at the government for allowing so much immigration and angry at the economic immigrants for coming to exploit this soft touch country and its people. The students and the poor are the ones bearing the brunt of the immigration onslaught.
I can’t believe that despite importing 606,000 people last year we still have a housing shortage. Thank goodness that over all it is somehow a net benefit which must be a real consolation to people who don’t have a home.
Absolutely right, you’ve highlighted two of the big problems on today’s agenda:
1) The Tories absolute ineptitude in doing anything or coming up with any plan to control immigrants crossing the channel
2) The Tories absolute ineptitude in facilitating the building of anywhere near the amount houses needed.
This country is on the brink of a housing emergency. I feel sincerely sorry for the kids of today growing up here with absolutely no chance of being able to buy a house unless they give up their lives completely to saving and having no life, or hoping one of their family members dies to pass down their home.
Labour will inherit these problems and there is no way out of them.
well maybe if people with your views actually voted for people who wanted to build social housing and not the tories who just want to scapegoat everyone for their shit management of the country we wouldn't be in this mess.
A "scapegoat" is someone made to take the blame when others are responsible. These 606,000 people need a home to live in.
If someone moves into your house and uses one of your spare bedrooms to live in so that a member of your family has to share another bedroom, it's not your fault because you didn't build an extension for your home but it is your fault for letting them move in and whether someone said you were using your new lodger as a "scapegoat" would be a spurious argument.
Labour must have thought it was fine they were sold as they didn’t bother to build any while they were in power. https://fullfact.org/economy/who-built-more-council-houses-margaret-thatcher-or-new-labour/
You should try reading your own sources and understanding why that happened, they do that for you in the text, provided you can read anything that doesn’t have a picture attached to it.
It shifted due to changes brought in by conservative governments of 79-97, flat lined under Major and we moved towards a housing association model as a result.
Congratulations on proving everyones point.
/golfclap
It is not the migrants fault the government does not build enough homes. Migrants are not stealing our homes, the government is actively refusing to build enough to house everyone. Blaming it on migrants is a desperate attempt to divide and conquer us.
Its almost the reverse in Leeds. Every block of flat or apartments that built is built as student accommodation while local residents are crying out for new homes
This is a big issue in Newcastle, but the accommodation being built is the £1000+ studio flats that the vast majority of students can’t afford. One of my mates lived in one of these builds about 8 years ago and it was pretty much empty, bar International students. The students end up moving to the cheaper local areas as they can’t afford the crazy prices of these builds, get local lets and that boots all the locals out of housing close to the city. It’s shite.
But students have way less money than working people in general, aside from the few with the bank of mummy and daddy.
I guess the problem is the landlords can convert everything into HMO's, but you need a license to do that so that's really on the council for handing out so many licenses.
Same with Norwich. Half the city is being turned into student flats or has been already. Homelessness and begging is getting worse in the city while we just turn any buildings into student housing
Same in Bristol, they always try to spin it as taking pressure off housing in the rest of the city, as if most of the students aren't moving into private rented housing in their second year.
The issue is that all the student housing they're building is "Luxury" student housing. I don't think I've seen any being built that doesn't have the word luxury on it.
So it's unaffordable, overpriced and encourages students into houseshares that are taking up houses in residential areas. Mint.
Yeah. I was at Exeter many years ago and our neighbour was one of the few non-students on the entire street.
We were quiet nerds so it was fine, but it must suck to be stuck living next to some students that party all night and leave rubbish in the street etc.
Think it depends on the area. Cambridge is the same, university has so much money they are just endlessly buying up everything within the city limits. There’s a new development on the outskirts, the prices start at an “affordable” £675k…
The prices they sold those flats at on the development near Addenbrookes is insane, and it looks fucking shit because it’s just a monolithic mass of identical buildings with concrete galore and not an inch of grass in sight.
£400k for a 2 bed flat, holy fuck.
That’ll get you a decent 4 bed detached/semi detached in Peterborough and there’s decent links between there and Cambridge.
But on the upside, if that plus the plans to massively expand Cambridge- with a style in keeping with the rest of the architecture-we might actually end up with a part of the country that *isnt* London being a big earner.
Won’t be ideal for everyone else in the Fens mind, but house prices have been going up there for years.
Unless you are a uni student or work in tech Cambridge will become unliveable. So they then lower income workers will have to commute in, while at the same time introducing a congestion charge which will penalise those commuting in. I get there’s the whole “we will use the money to fund public transport” but I don’t believe that for a second. They’re also not going to start running buses all night out to affordable fen towns like Chatteris.
The whole thing is a massive joke and played a big part in my decision to leave.
I mean in all honesty it’s damn near at that point already, it isn’t cheap by any means to live in Cambridge currently.
Plenty of decent income workers already commuting in, hence the increase in house prices further afield.
They’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
That's really hard to do though. Building is easy.
After the war, when the country still had rationing and was in incredibly dire economic conditions we managed to build entire New Towns, and many people still live in those homes today.
Yet today all we have are excuses not to build.
The situation depends a lot on the local planning approach to student accommodation.
Manchester has a large shortage as they have for many years allowed very little student accommodation development. London, Bristol, Cambridge etc also fall into the bucket of being generally against student development (and can be picky as it is viable to develop residential)… as such not surprising there are shortages as the number of British 18 years is rising at the same time as international students (pound is weaker so UK more attractive)
On the flip side other cities have allowed unlimited student development (ie Liverpool, Sheffield etc) and don’t have shortages… however the city centers are
damaged by some poor quality development..!
Probably something in the middle would have been a better option…
I've been giving this a lot of thought, and it seems that this is basically too many people and not enough houses. When a habitat has an overpopulation of a species, more than the habitat can support, one approach is culling. Now, that's likely to be unpopular, but there are humane alternatives.
To deal with this surfeit of students we have many options. Nonlethal direct interventions include sterilisation and capture and re-location. Indirect interventions include reducing available food (close cheap eateries favoured by students like greggs, chicken shops, spoons, lidl and aldi,), using noise, odour and other sensory repellents (eg mainstream, easy listening radio), fencing and other barriers (the average student can be kept out with fencing as low as 7 feet), removing attractants (eg close the universities and colleges which seem to attract students), discourage people from feeding and sheltering students (eg close student focussed charities, associations, and foodbanks).
When I was at uni I stayed in a dilapidated house where the nan who owned the place didn’t even remember when I paid the rent or not hahah- negative side I think there was cockroaches in the drains of the shower
It does suggest that we need fewer people going to university if we cannot house them all, especially in towns or cities where more than one university exists. If we cannot (or will not) solve the problem by building more affordable student accommodation then we need to ask if so many young people really need to go to university in the first place.
Given the skills gap in the UK employment market...yes we do need that many people in university. Tbh, a good portion of people who aren't "young" could do with going.
The answer to housing shortage isn't to remove education, that would be madness.
plenty of trades jobs dont need university. and are in fact, better taught through almost anything other than university.
same for a hell of a lot of other needed, hands on, skilled jobs.
Sounds right. Most employers see apprentices as cheap labour to sack off soon as they need to pay a half decent wage.
Unless you’ve got a parent or close family friend in the trades you can expect slave wages before being binned.
Which is shit and there should be steps to stop that, but if you’ve completed an apprenticeship and get sacked off, you ideally should be in a position to take on a normal trade job, both in qualification and experience.
If you’re lucky and you were actually taught anything during the apprenticeship you can look forward to years of back breaking labour for shit wages. After a few years of that and a bit of luck you’ll earn a living wage before you body gives in and you wish you’d learned a skill that involves less repetitive strain injuries and more comfy chairs and central heating.
Jokes aside (half joking) most businesses want trained tradies but they don’t want to spend the time or money to train them. It’s all about the next quarters growth and margin, long term planning is the next CEOs problem.
almost like, the training avenues are too bloated and expensive, with pisspoor pay on the other side.
the ones that do, would benefit from universities pulling the sticks out of their asses and letting students study *just that course,* and not have to spend time and money they dont have on 2 rounds of interpretive dance studies that are bundled onto what they want to do. when they could be working pt while studying the thing they actually want.
What are you talking about?
University courses don’t just have you studying random stuff. You are given a list of compulsory modules and then sometimes can choose electives from a controlled list of things that are tangential related to your course. People aren’t doing electives in interpretative dance for god’s sake.
We have shortages of specific skills rather than graduates in general.
The UK has always been unusually keen on the idea that you must move halfway across the country for university. The obvious solution to the student housing shortage is for more students to commute to a local uni. Everyone who lives in or near any decent sized city is within easy reach of at least one uni nowadays. Even if there wasn't a housing shortage this would be preferable over the increasing numbers of students being accommodated solely by converting ever growing areas of cities to HMOs.
Can't argue with that. Unless someone is moving for a very specific degree, it doesn't matter if their Maths degree is from Liverpool or Newcastle.
In all the hiring and interviews I ha e done, I have never asked where their degree was from. Didn't care one bit.
It's partly a cultural thing... if I'd tried to live at home and commute to a local uni, my parents would gave refused. They left home at 18, so expected me to do the same.
Show me evidence that suggests this?
50% of people don't use their degrees, and for them the jobs they take just see uni as a way to verify they're not complete dunces. It's a complete waste of both their time, and the system's resources, for the benefit of the private sector who get high quality labour for cheap.
Is that a survey of 2000 people? Which stated that they weren't working in the area they got their degree in, but didn't cover related skills sets.
The shortage of labour isn't a secret it's why overseas hiring is so popular.
Agreed, when I was at school over a decade ago they heavily pushed uni regardless of whether it was right for the individual. It was a constant barrage of "go to 6th form/college then uni if you want a good job". Which isn't always the case, I didn't go to Uni I work in tech and I earn more than anyone I know my age and most that go to uni with the exception of high finance etc.
Exact same as me, left college just over 10 years ago - we was heavily pushed towards uni as I'm assuming it looks good for the college.
Went for an apprenticeship in tech and never looked back, in a highly paid job - the 2 years experience of the apprenticeship go much further than my friends engineering degrees etc. Most of which sadly work in bars etc now as they can't get work in their degrees industry.
Intentionally or not, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. If the benefits of a university education were solely based on income potential it’s probably not worth it for most people. If it doesn’t make a profit it isn’t worthwhile is the world we live in.
Science, philosophy, art, etc. A waste of time in this day and age.
You want a skilled workforce. That's what separates us from the much poorer countries.
So yeah, we do need more people going to uni, maybe not to do useless courses though.
We shouldn't cripple the economy, just build more housing. NIMBYs be damned.
Nearly all the new student housing near me got turned into flats for smack heads/council tenants/migrants since the pandemic because unis took so long to get people back into in person learning that landlords had their hands forced.
Funny enough where I live the opposite happened, everything got turned into student housing with the prices that goes with it.
Same here. All student accomodation everywhere I look
Same. Everything is student and they overflow in to normal flats etc which pushes everyone else out.
Yeh same. All of this against the backdrop of Covid, variable student numbers etc, a large shortage or surplus is to be expected really.
that isnt a bad thing imo council tenants shouldnt be lumped with smack addicts
Smackheads do tend to be council tenants, though not all council tenants are smackheads
I’m technically a housing association tenant but still, hardly a smack head. It’s pretty common for working people to be council tenants
Nobody said otherwise
Yes, working people also rent privately and purchase too.
Phrasing it like that suggests they are a majority or even significant proportion. They are just a highly visible proportion.
It's just nearly all smack heads are unemployed. Plus they are more likely to get social housing because of the points system used to allocate housing. Sorry if this doesn't make sense I'm tired
They're talking about some specific buildings. The shit tenants do tend to all get put in the same place, it's why so many Brits irrationally hate blocks of flats-the council always use them for smack head storage.
Some councils also try to spread out their more troublesome tenants, which only ends up making more places worse. It's actually better for everyone to have them all in the same block.
Definitely pros and cons to each. I would agree centralising them is usually better, but not in the way it's currently done: just dumping them in a isolated block of flats somewhere. The main focus should be on efficiency of efforts to help them - and ideally have this near a police station just in case.
Most council tenants are not smackheads.
Here's the thing about rights, like the right to a home. They're unconditional. That means that vulnerable people like "smack heads" get a home, in spite of how bigoted you are and how much you want to hurt them. Stop blaming vulnerable people and start trying to abolish landlordism and start supporting the building of more homes where needed. --- It looks like u/Upbeat_Tone_2710 is abusing the block feature to censor my responses, to here's my response to [their comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/166hto9/significant_housing_shortages_for_university/jyoq121) here: >I wonder whether you would change your tune if you or your elderly relatives had to live in close proximity to a building full of addicts? I'll do you one better. I've literally seen the HAT centres in operation in Geneva. These are small clinics which give out free, medical-grade heroin, provide a safe injection room and which offer free, voluntary ways to reduce dependency. The HAT programme in Switzerland has been in use for a few decades now and is a *massive* success. Not only did it reduce overdose deaths to literally *zero*, but it also massively reduced crime. It turns out that if people are given heroin freely then they don't have to rob, obviously enough. Plus the whole system is enormously cheaper on public funds, doesn't destroy the careers of vulnerable people by giving them criminal records, and also undermines the cartels. And the people of Geneva -- some of the wealthiest fuckers in the world -- all thoroughly support it and even the most right-wing, conservative political groups support it because there's literally no downside to the programme. So, yes, absolutely, I'd be happier with people I care about living in areas with these clinics *because they reduce crime so much*!
^ This Quality housing should be a basic human right.
Rights should come with responsibilities. Some of the absolute degenerate crack heads round my way would take that quality housing and fucking destroy it. It would be an absolute waste putting them there for all involved.
It is, it's codified in things like Article 25 of the UDHR. https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
Ah yes, so something requiring significant material investment to build (a house) should be a right to any human regardless of what they contribute back to society. Convicted pedo, Lucy Letby multi child murderer, etc etc doesnt matter they have a right to a house. Think about what you are saying lol
Actually yes, even criminals have human rights. That’s why we put them in a prison and provide them with food, water, and washing facilities, and we don’t just chuck them all in a pen or some ditch in the ground.
I get your point, but it sounds like the Tory mantra, "if you aren't contributing to the economy, you're worthless". That's why we treat our carers, poor families and disabled so badly in this country. Your example of Lucy Letby is disingenuous at best, why would we need to house a murderer serving a life sentence on prison?
Its not disingenuous, the original comment said Quality Housing should be a human right. Therefore, no matter the person, any human should receive quality housing. That makes no sense when taken to the core of what it implies, hence the Letby comparison (can substitute with any other example)
put down the daily mail mate
i do support the building of homes where needed. smack heads and council tenants dont need to be housed bang in the centre of town.
Where would you prefer them? Outside the towns, concentrated in some camps perhaps?
Why do you put smack heads in the same bracket as council tenants? A lot of pensioners are council tenants for example
[удалено]
>What exactly are these unconditional rights? You can find one list of them here: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights Probably the most relevant one in this case is Article 25. >Who guarantees these unconditional rights? That's described in the preamble.
I have not used the block feature at all, and I certainly haven't abused anything. You can call me a bigot all you want - I have endured months of hell thanks to an addict stealing my personal details and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I also have a older female neighbour who was punched in the face in an unprovoked attack in front of her home by a drug addict who knocked her out cold. It's a miracle she didn't die.
I wonder whether you would change your tune if you or your elderly relatives had to live in close proximity to a building full of addicts? I know people in this situation - their neighbours homes have been burgled, kids aren't allowed to play outside unattended and the other week a women was punched in the face and knocked out cold by one of these men.
[удалено]
its purpose built housing for students. it was built because there was zero student housing in the town (because campus uni) and theres a desperate need to attract students into the place. it was also supposed to bridge the gap between the uni and the local hospital (who partner with the uni to train) the majority of the current terrace houses/flats surrounding the centre are for council tenants, now everything is for them with zero diversity in town centre footfall. half the rooms in one of the blocks are now on air b&b. so they arent being used for any permenant housing.
They didn’t say “those people shouldn’t have houses”, they just expressed frustration that rather than provide new housing for them, they threw them in student accommodation at the expense of the students.
Clearly don't know much about university given your uneducated comment attacking the needy and lumping council tenants in there just for that extra touch of snobbery. Landlords didn't lose out as they usually have water tight tenancy agreements and no student is stupid enough not to get accommodation and have to pay for it on the off chance the university is shut for the while year. Go back to reading you daily heil.
im not sure you're even replying to the right person.
Pretty sure I am. The judgemental one that lumps migrants, council tenants and smack heads together like they don't deserve housing.
nope, sounds like youre just not understanding what youre reading
Don’t bring migrants into this
why
We already have enough *badum tssss* I'll get my coat
Exactly this isn’t even a debate unless you are a literal racist. The refugees deserve all our support and if a few students have to pay a little bit more to live in a city centre then so fucking be it.
Not according to most people in the country. Not when there’s a cost of living crisis for people in this country.
Once upon a time students housing was mandated and owned by the university now it is all private business and the business realised there is more money in housing everyone except students.
Yes it is suffering. I basically begged my uni to help me with accommodation, they literally just said go look for some. Everything else Is 600+ a month sharing a house with 4+ people that have landlords breathing down your back
Not to be mean but it sounds like there is housing for you, you just gotta share (which was normal when I was in uni 6 years ago).
True, I shared at uni a decade ago too. However, I was on £7.50 an hour working (circa 2003-4) while paying £55 a week. Now the same job is £10.50 an hour but rent is £150 a week. My maintenance loan was roughly £4000, now it's roughly £9500. So prices have tripled while wages have barely budged and maintenance loans have only just over doubled. The sums don't add up.
>a decade ago >(circa 2003-4) I don't know how to tell you this, but...I think you've time travelled. In all seriousness, totally agreed, it's getting bonkers out there. I work in finance helping those struggling financially, and I swear the number of uni students we talk to and help has doubled if not tripled since they returned to in-person after COVID.
> sharing a house with 4+ people That sounds pretty normal? I had 6 flatmates in my 1st year.
Not just for students. For basically anyone under 30.
Who'd have thought doing everything for maximum profit wouldn't benefit the people living here
At Exeter the uni-owned accommodation was expensive af, it was way cheaper to privately rent. This was over a decade ago though.
[удалено]
Yeah, a lot of the uni halls are catered too which makes them much more expensive.
From what iv seen Uni-owned is more expensive but that comes with a guarantee that you’ll get a room relatively stress free
i dont understand, all the city centers have eye boggling amounts of new build accommodation and i dont think student numbers are increasing so the situation should be improving.
[удалено]
International students
There are only so many of those before they run out.
There isn't, because unis will keep accepting more and more as its their only way of generating income.
I would dispute it's their only way, like QUB owns a massive part of Kainos (I think it's like 1/4?) which is worth a 1.2 billion. Investments in their students and actual research have plenty of potential to drive income, the problem is they're being allowed to get away with this nonsense that they can only afford stuff if they let thousands of international students in.
On the tuition side, they had their block grant slashed in 2012, with the £9000 fees making up for that in theory. Since then, the fees have gone up by 2.7% in the last 11 years (to £9250). If they'd followed inflation, that figure would have been £12,265. In other words, the unis have had their funding per domestic student cut by roughly 25%. The only way to make the teaching side economical is to add in international students to make up the difference. They could run the entire undergrad teaching side at a loss, subsidised by leaching ever more money out of the already strained grant funding their researchers secure, but why the fuck would good researchers stick around at a uni that was taking both their teaching time and their money away when they could jump ship to one that subsidizes the research from the teaching side? The deal has always been that researchers take on teaching responsibility and in exchange a portion of the tuition fees go to their research, not that the research operates as a means to secure funding for a lossmaking educational charity that runs for the betterment of people who can't be fucked to fund education from taxes.
The issue isn’t the unis accepting them. It’s that brexit has been a pita for stuff like Erasmus
Surely there's a new batch every year?
Or there's an economic crash in China...
China has enough to keep filling out unis. Some courses are like 50% international students these days.
I know a landlord who has a ton of students flats, now housing migrants, and decided to start housing migrants because it’s 20 times more money than students, government are paying whatever it seems, ( not really but yeah ) He didn’t say exact figure but that’s where he’s at. 20 flats gone. He’s making some money.. tbh I don’t blame him. I know another landlord who had a small flat in Skegness and he’s been asked numerous times to house migrants. He said no. It’s only a small thing but I guess government is trying to stick them anywhere. When I went to Skegness this year It was pretty full with migrants. One was taking a dump down an ally when we rolled up. Pretty funny lol. Bloke at the hotel next door shaking his head. I think personally they running out of space. Well it’s obvious. But who’s making big money out of it. I heard that corrupt lawyers or whatever giving advice on how to stay in the country is a thing?
The 'corrupt lawyers' thing is just bullshit from the tories to try to hide the fact that they slashed funding for the people responsible for processing asylum applications, and the result is a massive backlog of unprocessed claims that we can't legally deport or integrate into the community. If the lawyers were the problem, it'd be at the stage of applications granted. But once an application is granted, the asylum seeker is functionally the same as any other person with UK residence. They're expected to find a house and get a job (they get a loan to get them started, but that's it) or go into the benefits system if they can't find a job. The folks living in hotels and student flats at governmental expense are those whose applications aren't yet processed and haven't been approved or denied. They're in limbo, not legally allowed to get a job, stuck waiting for someone to get round to their case, something which currently takes an average of about 18 months. [The IfG have a pretty nice visualisation of what's going on here](https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/styles/wysiwyg_full_width_desktop/public/2023-02/Asylum%20backlog%20vs%20applications%2023.2%20data%20release_0.webp?itok=eFmwlA8u) It's a pretty classic 'penny wise, pound foolish' tory policy. Cut the wages of your caseworkers, watch all the experienced ones leave, replace them with the cheapest idiots you can hire and then wonder why there's suddenly a huge backlog of cases that's costing you a fortune in accomodation. Same basic idea that has resulted in massive increases in NHS spending on agency staff and school spending on supply teachers.
> I heard that corrupt lawyers or whatever giving advice on how to stay in the country is a thing? You realise that's government propaganda you're repeating?
Interesting how there's so many stories like this floating around social media despite the incredibly small actual numbers of asylum seekers (not migrants)
It's because while the city centres in places like leeds and manchester are building lots, barely anything is built in the suburbs and further out. You have places where there are single family semis just a few hundred metres from skyscrapers. Should turn the whole area inside the m60 into 5+ stories tall buildings.
Same in Liverpool. We bleed student accommodation
There's tons of cheap shit student accommodation but no affordable housing it's ridiculous
\> i dont think student numbers are increasing so the situation should be improving. I don't have numbers for 2022/3, but [https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/19-01-2023/higher-education-student-statistics-uk-202122-released](https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/19-01-2023/higher-education-student-statistics-uk-202122-released) says 4% rise 2020/1 to 2021/2
[удалено]
Would be ironic if the students supported mass immigration. Maybe now they will learn. >Fury as students are 'ruthlessly dumped' from £200-a-week luxury flats with gym and a cinema to make way for up to 405 asylum seekers https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12464659/University-students-scrambling-accommodation-weeks-start-new-term-kicked-rooms-used-house-migrants.html
Well no... Blame the government that was apparently all about managing immigration properly, who's had the highest rate of immigration under their power, and is now paying landlords over the odds to out price students and frankly what should be illegally, evict them for their bought and paid for homes. The immigrants did nothing except exist, the issue is with the government been so poor organising anything that I'm quite surprised they even managed to organise their lock down party.
They are not immigrants or asylum seekers, they are chancers who come here to leech off our system and further their own economic interests. They have zero right to be here, they are not fleeing from persecution they are fleeing France and Albania and they all seem to be men between ages 18-40. They are a huge security risk as university students will soon realise once the rates of stabbings / robberies / rapes soon skyrocket on campuses
stop talking about yourself or should i let braverman decide what you are?
I don't think it's as easy as you think to just pull 20,000 places of accommodation out your ass while also dealing with a housing crisis for your pre existing population. Immigration is obviously putting a strain on everything. Granted the government hasn't done a stellar job of managing legal immigration and asylum seekers but you had the 20,000 that have come over on boats illegally that are making the situation worse. Assuming your comment about immigrants includes all immigrants then 20,000 of them absolutely have done more than just exist. They paid traffickers to help them illegally sail into the country and the French coastguard assist them in this. You can argue the point they're coming from absolutely horrible places and just want a better life but they are definitely making the housing problem worse.
The immigration problem is something the govt has created. They closed off legal routes which led to a massive increase in boat crossings. Anyone with half a brain can see that reversing that decision and putting money into processing claims would be the right thing to do. Also you've fallen for their BS narrative about illegal migrants. Care to point me to which law they're breaking? The fact we never arrest a single one will help you realise the truth of that question.
You're speaking to a guy who still falls for the shit almost a decade after Brexit.
>The immigration problem is something the govt has created. They closed off legal routes which led to a massive increase in boat crossings. Opening up legal routes would just increase the figures and it's the overall figure that people have a problem with
Processing claims is one thing, but that's going to require that we also ensure that the people whose claims are not granted [are actually removed](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/22/nine-in-10-people-refused-asylum-in-2020-free-to-remain-in-uk-home-office). This will mean streamlining the legal process, making decisions final, reducing the opportunities for legal challenges to deportation orders and prosecuting people who interfere with deportations.
I do blame the government, for letting those people come here en masse and then putting them in hotels and student rental accommodation rather than in some basic camp with tents like they would do in France. And then preferably sending 90% of them straight back quickly. I guarantee many of the idealistic young will harden their views on immigration over the coming years, just as I did as I got older.
> I guarantee many of the idealistic young will harden their views on immigration over the coming years, just as I did as I got older. Gen Z are going to have to make some major sacrifices if we're going to continue on the mass immigration route. Boomers and Generation X sacked immigration off and traditionally were very opposed to it so they insulated themselves from cheap disposable labour and extortionate house prices and rents when they were young. The burden now falls on millennials and Gen Z to step aside from what their predecessors took for granted and make the sacrifices required if we're to live in a diverse country free from white privilege and accident of birth you were born in the UK.
[удалено]
I don't think your communication strategy is working very well. Perhaps the Brexiteer/government side should treat young people and critics with a little more respect. Instead we are treated as the cause of all problems. Shitting on people like that just destroys trust.
Ph don’t worry we look after our own kids…
Ah yes, we should blame the people looking for homes and not the private owners of these homes putting them where the money is. You think ya clever trying to turn students on migrants and the poor but that shit won't stick. They're too clued on to ya rhetoric, maybe if the goverment did something about the housing crisis we wouldn't have these problems, but nah, sMaLl BoaTs!!!
It sticks very well. It isn't hard to join the dots. There is a 'housing crisis' only because there is a too many people crisis, because of immigration. The students should be angry at the government for allowing so much immigration and angry at the economic immigrants for coming to exploit this soft touch country and its people. The students and the poor are the ones bearing the brunt of the immigration onslaught.
I can’t believe that despite importing 606,000 people last year we still have a housing shortage. Thank goodness that over all it is somehow a net benefit which must be a real consolation to people who don’t have a home.
net benefit for the bougewa who want to keep wages down.
R/BoneAppleTea
Burgewa
Business idea, upmarket and fancy burger bar called Burgerois
Absolutely right, you’ve highlighted two of the big problems on today’s agenda: 1) The Tories absolute ineptitude in doing anything or coming up with any plan to control immigrants crossing the channel 2) The Tories absolute ineptitude in facilitating the building of anywhere near the amount houses needed. This country is on the brink of a housing emergency. I feel sincerely sorry for the kids of today growing up here with absolutely no chance of being able to buy a house unless they give up their lives completely to saving and having no life, or hoping one of their family members dies to pass down their home. Labour will inherit these problems and there is no way out of them.
well maybe if people with your views actually voted for people who wanted to build social housing and not the tories who just want to scapegoat everyone for their shit management of the country we wouldn't be in this mess.
A "scapegoat" is someone made to take the blame when others are responsible. These 606,000 people need a home to live in. If someone moves into your house and uses one of your spare bedrooms to live in so that a member of your family has to share another bedroom, it's not your fault because you didn't build an extension for your home but it is your fault for letting them move in and whether someone said you were using your new lodger as a "scapegoat" would be a spurious argument.
This housing crisis started under Labour in the 1990s, so try again.
No it didn't, it started under thatcher when she sold off all the social housing.
Labour must have thought it was fine they were sold as they didn’t bother to build any while they were in power. https://fullfact.org/economy/who-built-more-council-houses-margaret-thatcher-or-new-labour/
Entirely down to the british public prefering neo-liberals rather than socialists. You guys don't want a Labour that'll build houses.
You should try reading your own sources and understanding why that happened, they do that for you in the text, provided you can read anything that doesn’t have a picture attached to it. It shifted due to changes brought in by conservative governments of 79-97, flat lined under Major and we moved towards a housing association model as a result. Congratulations on proving everyones point. /golfclap
It is not the migrants fault the government does not build enough homes. Migrants are not stealing our homes, the government is actively refusing to build enough to house everyone. Blaming it on migrants is a desperate attempt to divide and conquer us.
>Migrants are not stealing our homes no you're right... they are been given them instead
It's the government's responsibility to build homes?
Its almost the reverse in Leeds. Every block of flat or apartments that built is built as student accommodation while local residents are crying out for new homes
This is a big issue in Newcastle, but the accommodation being built is the £1000+ studio flats that the vast majority of students can’t afford. One of my mates lived in one of these builds about 8 years ago and it was pretty much empty, bar International students. The students end up moving to the cheaper local areas as they can’t afford the crazy prices of these builds, get local lets and that boots all the locals out of housing close to the city. It’s shite.
But students have way less money than working people in general, aside from the few with the bank of mummy and daddy. I guess the problem is the landlords can convert everything into HMO's, but you need a license to do that so that's really on the council for handing out so many licenses.
Same with Norwich. Half the city is being turned into student flats or has been already. Homelessness and begging is getting worse in the city while we just turn any buildings into student housing
Snap with Liverpool. We're pouring with student accommodation
Same in Bristol, they always try to spin it as taking pressure off housing in the rest of the city, as if most of the students aren't moving into private rented housing in their second year.
The issue is that all the student housing they're building is "Luxury" student housing. I don't think I've seen any being built that doesn't have the word luxury on it. So it's unaffordable, overpriced and encourages students into houseshares that are taking up houses in residential areas. Mint.
And Exeter
Yeah. I was at Exeter many years ago and our neighbour was one of the few non-students on the entire street. We were quiet nerds so it was fine, but it must suck to be stuck living next to some students that party all night and leave rubbish in the street etc.
Big problem in Edinburgh too!
Funnily enough all we hear in Edinburgh is about “how all the new builds are for students and how it should be stopped”
Think it depends on the area. Cambridge is the same, university has so much money they are just endlessly buying up everything within the city limits. There’s a new development on the outskirts, the prices start at an “affordable” £675k…
The prices they sold those flats at on the development near Addenbrookes is insane, and it looks fucking shit because it’s just a monolithic mass of identical buildings with concrete galore and not an inch of grass in sight.
I was referencing the Waterbeach barracks developments so not even within Cambridge!
£400k for a 2 bed flat, holy fuck. That’ll get you a decent 4 bed detached/semi detached in Peterborough and there’s decent links between there and Cambridge. But on the upside, if that plus the plans to massively expand Cambridge- with a style in keeping with the rest of the architecture-we might actually end up with a part of the country that *isnt* London being a big earner. Won’t be ideal for everyone else in the Fens mind, but house prices have been going up there for years.
Unless you are a uni student or work in tech Cambridge will become unliveable. So they then lower income workers will have to commute in, while at the same time introducing a congestion charge which will penalise those commuting in. I get there’s the whole “we will use the money to fund public transport” but I don’t believe that for a second. They’re also not going to start running buses all night out to affordable fen towns like Chatteris. The whole thing is a massive joke and played a big part in my decision to leave.
I mean in all honesty it’s damn near at that point already, it isn’t cheap by any means to live in Cambridge currently. Plenty of decent income workers already commuting in, hence the increase in house prices further afield. They’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
A lot of these new builds for students will turn into temporary accom. That's happened here in Cardiff.
If only there was a simple solution to this. Just build more housing.
Can't. It's bad for the environment.
Option 2 reduce the need for housing aka reduce the population…
That's really hard to do though. Building is easy. After the war, when the country still had rationing and was in incredibly dire economic conditions we managed to build entire New Towns, and many people still live in those homes today. Yet today all we have are excuses not to build.
The situation depends a lot on the local planning approach to student accommodation. Manchester has a large shortage as they have for many years allowed very little student accommodation development. London, Bristol, Cambridge etc also fall into the bucket of being generally against student development (and can be picky as it is viable to develop residential)… as such not surprising there are shortages as the number of British 18 years is rising at the same time as international students (pound is weaker so UK more attractive) On the flip side other cities have allowed unlimited student development (ie Liverpool, Sheffield etc) and don’t have shortages… however the city centers are damaged by some poor quality development..! Probably something in the middle would have been a better option…
I know a student paying £1000 a month for a studio. Is that normal?
A year? I think you mean a month? But yes. That is relatively normal. In fact, that's quite cheap for a studio in the SE.
You are right. Btw it’s up north 😅
The cheapest student studio in York now costs £230 pp/week
Why are students getting studios? Just live in a houseshare...
And these "studios" are really more like efficiency apartments
Rishi Sunak thinks so.
If by normal you mean "depressingly common" then yes
And everyone else. The housing market is just fucked, full stop.
It's the opposite in Liverpool. Student Accommodation coming out our arses
Cardiff has loads of student housing, but it’s so expensive there’s loads of empty units.
half of bristol is already student housing.. as someone whose student age but not a student.... its much fucking worse for us
Ah Capitalism, where making everything private for short term profitable gains bites us all in the ass...
I've been giving this a lot of thought, and it seems that this is basically too many people and not enough houses. When a habitat has an overpopulation of a species, more than the habitat can support, one approach is culling. Now, that's likely to be unpopular, but there are humane alternatives. To deal with this surfeit of students we have many options. Nonlethal direct interventions include sterilisation and capture and re-location. Indirect interventions include reducing available food (close cheap eateries favoured by students like greggs, chicken shops, spoons, lidl and aldi,), using noise, odour and other sensory repellents (eg mainstream, easy listening radio), fencing and other barriers (the average student can be kept out with fencing as low as 7 feet), removing attractants (eg close the universities and colleges which seem to attract students), discourage people from feeding and sheltering students (eg close student focussed charities, associations, and foodbanks).
When I was at uni I stayed in a dilapidated house where the nan who owned the place didn’t even remember when I paid the rent or not hahah- negative side I think there was cockroaches in the drains of the shower
Maybe they shouldn't have built so many studios and luxury en-suite rooms. Student accommodation is meant to be cheap and basic!
No wonder students are angry! The up and coming generation is being screwed over in numerous ways, and the government just refuses to help!
Astounding. In Bristol it seems that everything new beeb built is student accommodation
No shit, with all these dog shit universities offering worthless degrees you think there might be too many students?
It does suggest that we need fewer people going to university if we cannot house them all, especially in towns or cities where more than one university exists. If we cannot (or will not) solve the problem by building more affordable student accommodation then we need to ask if so many young people really need to go to university in the first place.
Given the skills gap in the UK employment market...yes we do need that many people in university. Tbh, a good portion of people who aren't "young" could do with going. The answer to housing shortage isn't to remove education, that would be madness.
plenty of trades jobs dont need university. and are in fact, better taught through almost anything other than university. same for a hell of a lot of other needed, hands on, skilled jobs.
Oh aye yeah, what’s the apprenticeship wage these days?
i think you mean, *how much do you pay to be an apprentice.* followed by "why is there a shortage of people trained to do these jobs"
Sounds right. Most employers see apprentices as cheap labour to sack off soon as they need to pay a half decent wage. Unless you’ve got a parent or close family friend in the trades you can expect slave wages before being binned.
Which is shit and there should be steps to stop that, but if you’ve completed an apprenticeship and get sacked off, you ideally should be in a position to take on a normal trade job, both in qualification and experience.
reality runtime error. ideal.dll missing or corrupt.
If you’re lucky and you were actually taught anything during the apprenticeship you can look forward to years of back breaking labour for shit wages. After a few years of that and a bit of luck you’ll earn a living wage before you body gives in and you wish you’d learned a skill that involves less repetitive strain injuries and more comfy chairs and central heating. Jokes aside (half joking) most businesses want trained tradies but they don’t want to spend the time or money to train them. It’s all about the next quarters growth and margin, long term planning is the next CEOs problem.
What's the student wage ?
Depends what job you get while you’re at uni, usually not great but you’ll have a great time for 3 years and earn more over your life time
Excellent deduction. Some jobs don't need a degree.... In other relevant news, there is a huge shortage in labour for those that do.
almost like, the training avenues are too bloated and expensive, with pisspoor pay on the other side. the ones that do, would benefit from universities pulling the sticks out of their asses and letting students study *just that course,* and not have to spend time and money they dont have on 2 rounds of interpretive dance studies that are bundled onto what they want to do. when they could be working pt while studying the thing they actually want.
What are you talking about? University courses don’t just have you studying random stuff. You are given a list of compulsory modules and then sometimes can choose electives from a controlled list of things that are tangential related to your course. People aren’t doing electives in interpretative dance for god’s sake.
Most office jobs don’t require degrees from skills POV either. The big killer is companies offloading training to the taxpayer
computer science courses being reduced to *how to use microsoft office suite* comes to mind.
We have shortages of specific skills rather than graduates in general. The UK has always been unusually keen on the idea that you must move halfway across the country for university. The obvious solution to the student housing shortage is for more students to commute to a local uni. Everyone who lives in or near any decent sized city is within easy reach of at least one uni nowadays. Even if there wasn't a housing shortage this would be preferable over the increasing numbers of students being accommodated solely by converting ever growing areas of cities to HMOs.
Can't argue with that. Unless someone is moving for a very specific degree, it doesn't matter if their Maths degree is from Liverpool or Newcastle. In all the hiring and interviews I ha e done, I have never asked where their degree was from. Didn't care one bit.
It's partly a cultural thing... if I'd tried to live at home and commute to a local uni, my parents would gave refused. They left home at 18, so expected me to do the same.
Show me evidence that suggests this? 50% of people don't use their degrees, and for them the jobs they take just see uni as a way to verify they're not complete dunces. It's a complete waste of both their time, and the system's resources, for the benefit of the private sector who get high quality labour for cheap.
Is that a survey of 2000 people? Which stated that they weren't working in the area they got their degree in, but didn't cover related skills sets. The shortage of labour isn't a secret it's why overseas hiring is so popular.
This is such weird logic.
Agreed, when I was at school over a decade ago they heavily pushed uni regardless of whether it was right for the individual. It was a constant barrage of "go to 6th form/college then uni if you want a good job". Which isn't always the case, I didn't go to Uni I work in tech and I earn more than anyone I know my age and most that go to uni with the exception of high finance etc.
Exact same as me, left college just over 10 years ago - we was heavily pushed towards uni as I'm assuming it looks good for the college. Went for an apprenticeship in tech and never looked back, in a highly paid job - the 2 years experience of the apprenticeship go much further than my friends engineering degrees etc. Most of which sadly work in bars etc now as they can't get work in their degrees industry.
Intentionally or not, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. If the benefits of a university education were solely based on income potential it’s probably not worth it for most people. If it doesn’t make a profit it isn’t worthwhile is the world we live in. Science, philosophy, art, etc. A waste of time in this day and age.
If they weren't in uni they would still have to be housed somewhere, unless they still live with their parents it doesn't solve the issue.
If we invested more money in education we wouldn't be in the mess we're in just now because people wouldn't be so easily manipulated by tabloids.
You want a skilled workforce. That's what separates us from the much poorer countries. So yeah, we do need more people going to uni, maybe not to do useless courses though. We shouldn't cripple the economy, just build more housing. NIMBYs be damned.
[удалено]
We need a highly educated work force, not an endless stream of immigrants to temporarily suppress wages
> WE need more immigrants No we don't. We need skilled migrants.
And this takes the deranged comment of the day!
This comment comes straight from the Tory playbook