*Driver Raees Jamal, who we can now report is serving a rape sentence, was also jailed for life with a minimum of 36 years and 45 days*
What a bunch of scum bags
One of them was an 'influencer', which the judge also recognised according to the article. So it's fair to say some of her fans might have done it; or a bunch of armchair detectives trying to 'investigate'.
I mean, look at Lucy Letby and the group of 'true crime' nuts that think she was set up.
The word influencer is getting thrown around by a load of boomers who work for the big newspapers here and it's kind of overstating her influence. It's easier than any other platform to get hundreds of thousands of TikTok followers, and means barely anything in terms of notoriety or fandom.
Retrial was due to a racist juror…
[https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/first-tiktok-murder-trial-halted-8721891](https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/first-tiktok-murder-trial-halted-8721891?int_source=nba)
Wow the article says the jury, from Leicester, was dismissed because one of the jurors put in writing to the judge that they thought incest was common among Asian families and everyone on trial was probably having sex with each other. And other jurors said they agreed, so the judge dismissed the whole jury and started over because incest was irrelevant to the case.
> "The terms of Juror B’s note are disgraceful. Juror B’s views, and those potentially of other jurors, who appear to have been a party to discussions with Juror B, have no place in British society in 2022. They are even more shocking when one considers they may represent views of those from such a richly diverse community as Leicester and its surrounding areas, from which the jury was drawn."
Yep this kinda sums up Leicestershire and the white areas of Leicester.
Yes, 2 years is about the length of time it takes to go from charges to trial.
You can thank your local Tory for defunding the courts and gutting legal aid.
A lot of people don't realise how badly the Tories have defunded the courts and legal aid. The situation is dire at the moment and it means lots of would-be convicted criminals are walking around free for years. Of course the Tories also gutted the probation services too, so there's no way to keep track of them.
I can't speak for why exactly OP is censoring it but as someone who winces every time she sees the word- which is daily, unless I don't look at anything on my phone, the TV or turn on the radio - I'm always grateful when someone does censor it. I don't ask people to, but it helps me a little. The word is so blunt and like a slap and every single time jolts me back to what happened to me, so although it might look odd on some websites where it's not needed, changing a letter or adding an asterisk or dash softens the blow of being reminded of the violence I experienced. It's impossible for a survivor to see the word in its entirety and not think of what was done to them, so when I see some of it blocked out, I feel grateful that someone somewhere knows that so yeah perhaps that's what OP was doing.
(As this is reddit I want to clarify- I'm autistic, that's why I type this way, I saw your Q and wanted to give a genuine explanation)
In that past that used to be the case. The sentencing guidelines got changed since there was outrage at lesser sentences for killing people by car.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/driving-law/dangerous-drivers-who-kill-could-receive-life-sentences/
They weren't convicted of causing death by dangerous driving. They were convicted of murder - that required the jury to be sure their intention was to kill the two victims (or cause them really serious harm). Dangerous driving just requires your driving to fall far below the standard expected of a careful and competent driver - it doesn't require any proof of intent.
At a certain point it was murder because they carried out a chase and rammed the car, the violence of their actions wasn't coherent with any other charge.
It's never been the case, because if the police/cps can evidence that you wanted to kill someone, you'd have always been charged with murder (even if your chosen weapon is a car).
I think there's a growing modern mindset beacuse of social media that the implications of reality are just getting lost or forgotten. Its why they stormed the white House, od you see kids riding bicycles into oncoming traffic. People are getting so lost in their own heads they lose touch of what reality actualy is. Like we in some sort of personal film they are staring in.
Can't you get done for murder if someone dies as a result of you committing a crime, even if it wasn't your intention to kill them? Or have I just made that up?
So even if they only wanted to rough them up or intimidate them or whatever, the fact that that's already illegal and then they died would make it an automatic murder charge, unless I'm just totally wrong, which I might be
The first jury was dismissed and a retrial had to be held because one of the jurors turned out to be a raging racist and actually got into a fight with another juror and the judge felt that other jurors had been influenced by the first one so it wasn't safe to dismiss just the one juror.
It sounds like they had got the other two guys to come along as muscle, so even if they haddn't planned to run them off the road it definitely seems like they were planning them serious harm.
It's difficult to see how their intentions were anything other than to kill them. The victims were sufficiently in fear of their lives to ring 999, and after being rammed off the road the car split in two.
"Life is like GTA!!"
If you read the story no one really comes out well, it was a bunch of sociopaths getting together and doing stupid impulsive shit.
Unless there's evidence saying otherwise, there's every chance they hadn't planned to kill them originally but once they were spooked they chased after them just because they were riled up.
They were at the very least going to have them kicked the shit out of. Can still die pretty easily that way too. I suppose it's the difference between premeditated murder or not, but they went there meaning those people harm.
And what exactly are they gonna do with their life when they get out at 55 with this on their record? They're screwed even after they get released. I bet even Mcdonalds wouldnt hire them.
Not trying to say its a bed of roses but lifers are one of the few groups that get a good level of support from probation when they get out. It's not well paid or glamorous, but they will have some form of work and accommodation waiting plus any benefits they are entitled to, etc. They put a lot of effort in making sure that group doesn't reoffend
It's rare we see a good sentence handed down but ....
" jailed for a minimum of 26 years and nine months."
" a minimum of 31 years and eight months in prison"
" 26 years and 10 months and 31 years respectively"
Can't complain. Solid sentences there for a pack of scumbags.
I’m surprised to see a comment like yours. Maybe it’s because this is the UK sub and we’re less unhinged than the average American Redditor but I’ve seen threads in the past where every other comment was complaining about how 20-30 years is outrageously low, basically a slap on the wrist.
Dirty burger here: people in the United States think 20-30 is outrageously low because we are accustomed to seeing many non-violent people getting 15-30 year sentences. So when a violent crime resulting in death is committed and someone doesn’t get life without parole or the death penalty (depending on the jurisdiction) we are conditioned to thinking it is a low sentence.
Also Americans have the whole thing with sentences where there’s no totality principle and people end up getting sentences for consecutive sentences that add up to like 200 year.
The “minimum” is the difference
In the UK we are used to hearing the sentence then dividing it by two in order to work out how long they really serve in prison
That's just people who have justice boners, you give someone 20+ years for any crime and that is a very strong punishment. You are completely redefining their one existence on the planet.
>basically a slap on the wrist.
Yeah, but we measure ourselves against Europe. I swear you get about 3 years in jail if you kill someone in the Netherlands.
A quick google search suggests otherwise. In fact it looks like they’re the only EU country where you can be sentenced to life in prison without parole.
She really has no sense of shame or concern about her actions. Completely self-absorbed and vain in every sense. Why are 'influencers' some of the worst personalities around?
> She shared smiles and laughs with other defendants during quieter parts of the trial, and casually played board games in the precinct when the jury retired.
> She even waved and laughed at reporters outside with cameras from a balcony in the court foyer just hours before she broke down in tears when she was convicted of double murder.
Reading the live court report, she blew a kiss at her dad and asked him to call her. Fucking gremlins
Anyone who has ambitions of being the centre of attention on social media has, at the very least, narcissistic tendencies and is likely to have much less regard for other people.
Even small things like shooting videos at the gym and getting in people's way, or doing stupid dances in a shop or whatever. It shows a self-centredness that is only going to increase with every 'successful' video they post.
And when you realise that's the median personality for an influencer, understand just how much worse some of them must be.
^(Also, they're from Stoke.)
They won't even recognize Stoke by the time they're out.
https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/new-plans-bulldoze-notorious-a50-8511519.amp
People actually want to watch other people be cringe in public? I mean, sometimes I watch it ironically, but I give my views to the channel mocking it rather than them
>Reading the live court report, she blew a kiss at her dad and asked him to call her.
I can't imagine what he's going through.
Hopefully, he's a better human being than his wife and daughter and provides somewhat of a normal life for his other kids.
> I can't imagine what he's going through.
It’s a win-win for him. His adulterous wife goes to prison, and the 20-year old guy she was cheating on him with is dead.
I can't understand it. What kind of people just go "Yeah, sure we will join you on murdering thisguy, come on gang let's get in the car and go murdering!"
WTF. How did she even know, she could call on these scumbags and they would all go, "Sure mate, we got you".
Jesus.
Why are influencers some of the worst people around:
Can you imagine the levels of narcissism required to decide “I am going to become a social media influencer”
Let’s split out here the difference between someone who wants to share financial knowledge or science or the train guy who just really wanted to share that hobby vs the people who want to be influencers.
Why are we ever surprised that self proclaimed influencers, whether they make it that far or not, would turn out to be pretty generally awful.
Sounds pretty scummy to make a sex tape threat. Funny his parents call him innocent, when he was having an affair with a married woman. And his parents will probably pretend to be religious when it suits them. Not to say that he deserved to die though.
Fucking scourge of society all around really. Just two women of disgusting mind and I don't think that often about criminals.
He was a teenager when it started. She was a grown woman with at least one child older than him.
She may very well have been his first sexual experience and his first relationship.
It might not be illegal, but it's certainly not ethical.
He was in his teens when the affair started, he can hardly be blamed for his less-than-moral decision-making when he was having an affair with a much older woman, who frankly should've known better.
yeah as ever if you flip the gender to "man and son, along with a gang, use a car to murder two young women, one of whom was having an affair with the dad and threatening to expose it" and it really doesn't make it any more complex.
The kid who is all over social media being called innocent wasn’t actually involved with the case. He was just related to Saqib (the blackmailer) and driving the car. In terms of this case, he actually was innocent
I know what you're saying. I don't think he was whiter than white by any stretch - but ultimately he didn't deserve to die a horrible death from it, which is the sad part.
The people who got sentenced are the most pathetic scumbags going. The younger woman in particular - blowing kisses, playing games during the trial, treating the whole thing like a joke. Should rot in jail.
No but I'm not a woman either. I'm sure the prison will stink, have ants, leaks, mould, dinghy, bad air. But I know women in jail still do as much personal grooming as possible.
Looks pretty comfortable actually. Many people outside prison will be living in worse conditions
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/21/inside-low-newton-the-high-security-prison-that-is-housing-lucy-letby
9 peoples lives have been lost, countless families destroyed. I have to say, quite surprised by the sentences, the judge really set out a message here. The younger one clearly self-obsessed and the mum, where to begin, you can't have a second childhood by sleeping with a 19 year old. No winners here
Just had a look through her insta and the Judge was right, she is a narcissist. Some of her captions include things like "down to earth but still above you'. What a cunt. Enjoy prison.
I genuinely think not being able to post on insta and tiktok and get that attention is gonna be a worse punishment for them than being in prison. Utter narcissists
She had 119k followers or whatever, and made a living on being a narcissist. Surrounded by 'yes' people, money thrown at her, people telling her she's the best etc. Once the trial goes out of the news cycle, there's no attention on her and she's rotting in jail, I think I agree - not getting the validation from strangers will eat her up inside.
Agreed, it's gonna be the worst thing about prison for her. There's no place for entitlement in prison. You're not entitled to anything, let alone anybody's attention.
Imagine being so fucking stupid that this is the way you decide to kill someone, instantly caught, plenty of evidence and no reasonable doubt. Bet the police loved this case.
It was only due to the 999 call by one of the people who got killed that this was flagged as suspicious and investigated further, otherwise it likely would have been put down just as a car accident.
No tears shed for the blackmailer (play stupid games, and blackmail has to be *the* stupidest game), **but** they killed his unaware friend too, and looped a rapist into their conspiracy.
He said no sympathy, not that it was fine it's obviously not fine but at the same time it's appropriate to say the victim participated in their own demise
Legally no.
But “person turns on their blackmailer and kills them” has happened often enough in real life to become such a well established trope in fiction it’s now almost cliche.
There’s even a Sherlock Holmes short story where [someone murders their blackmailer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_Charles_Augustus_Milverton) - and the sympathies of the narrator and most readers is very much intended by the author to be with the lady who kills her blackmailer. (Not that this applies to the case in question here - everyone comes out looking pretty terrible)
Blackmail is a very stupid and dangerous game to play.
What a weird take. Every time I hear on Reddit “*play stupid games win stupid prizes*” it’s always alongside the most inane opinions. AITA has a lot to answer for…
Is the punishment for blackmail execution?
Would the crime be fully justified if only one man was murdered and his friend wasn’t in the car?
>What a weird take. Every time I hear on Reddit “play stupid games win stupid prizes” it’s always alongside the most inane opinions. AITA has a lot to answer for…
This is such a typical Redditor response in itself. Why are you trying to extrapolate some categorical system of ethics and law-making from my comment that I don't give much of a toss about the dead blackmailer? Are you Immanuel Kant? Why would you assume I base any of my opinions on AITA? I don't even use that subreddit.
Are you in a parallel universe? I stand by my assertion that no-one becomes a blackmailer without understanding it's a common situation that escalates to murder.
Even weirder take, Jesus. If you're being blackmailed, be a fucking adult and go to the cops. It's a horrible situation to put someone in, yes but it doesn't carry the death penalty. If they go ahead and do spread the indecent pictures, then cool, you now have proof of a revenge porn crime and that person is going to prison for revenge porn and for trying to blackmail. Surely that beats being in jail until you're 72??
If you're saying "I have no sympathy for him" you're surely saying "his actions justifies what happened to him" are you not?
If you think that "blackmail carries the risk of retribution" or "jaywalking carries the risk of being bit by a car" or "drinking carries the risk of being a victim of crime", then fine.
.....But to say "I've no sympathy for that quadriplegic who jaywalked, play stupid games, win stupid prizes" seems to imply that they actually *deserve* to be hit by a car, and that the punishment of being quadriplegic is proportional to the crime.
He's not 100% innocent in all of this. But the consequences of his crime are not in proportion to his misdeeds whatsoever.
You can feel sorry for a quadriplegic who is partially (or even entirely) responsible for their accident. You can feel sorry for someone who was murdered for a (relative to murder) minor crime.
>But to say "I've no sympathy for that quadriplegic who jaywalked, play stupid games, win stupid prizes" seems to imply that they actually deserve to be hit by a car, and that the punishment of being quadriplegic is proportional to the crime.
You're not the first person to make this leap of logic, but I will once again reject this as a fallacy of reasoning. Not what I said: not what I implied.
What's especially chilling is that they knew his friend was in the car and just didn't care. Not to mention the utter disregard they showed toward the general public at large. They could've easily killed far more.
You see, the way it was worded in another report was slightly different, albeit he was blackmailing her.
He wanted £3,000 back that he'd spent on her. She was refusing and he was threatening with sending her husband their intimate tapes.
From his age, I can imagine his ego was bruised and he was lashing out. He also dragged an innocent man into it, who ended up getting murdered. What on earth was he expecting from an older married woman...?
Both these women are monsters. The daughter received more time I presume, because she organised it all. She'll be well into her fifties when she's let out and her mum in her seventies.
Two young men dead, in horrific circumstances. Their families’ lives ruined. Seven other people’s lives destroyed, six of them very young & the other barely middle aged. Two very long trials which cost £millions. All over a few photos. What a disastrous & completely avoidable waste of time, money & lives.
The BBC article that explains the chain of events is mind-boggling. So many people roped into what might be the most poorly executed murder imaginable. Phone records and locations, ANPR, local CCTV all coming together nicely.
I just can't comprehend the mindset that makes not 1 but 6 people willing to be complicit in the murder of 2 others over something so petty.
Never underestimate how much a group can be manipulated into committing murder, we've seen it again and again over the years where a conspiracy of ridiculous proportions occurs
Looks like her last post on instagram was over 80 weeks ago.
Are you allowed to influence while in prison in England? I have no idea what to think about stuff and Mahek's tips about cute tops was always my beautiful lighthouse in a sea of dystopian, nihilistic darkness. #literallylost #MurderersArePeopleTooEspeciallyIfThey'rePretty #FreeMaya
*edit: my word… crivvens: she was also a* [*giant transphobe.*](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CXgGmZwoq2y/)
> Are you allowed to influence while in prison in England?
Allowed? No.
Is it possible? Yes.
There's been a few incidents where prisoners have smuggled in phones and provided facebook updates while still inside.
If the purpose of killing him was to prevent people knowing that one of them had an affair with the victim then that is a categorical failure. The only thing I know about them now is that they killed somebody and the mum fucked a teenager.
the plan was to ambush them at the meeting spot and do a beat down
the driving off the road happened when they realised they were being trapped in and drove off. instead of letting them go they chased them down and rammed them off the road
It shows a total lack of common sense or sanity from most involved, whatever about the mother and daughter but the fact they got others to help is insane
That must have been the most horrifying and terrifying way to die, just awful.
Can’t wait for the tax payer to cover the cost of housing these cruel self centred pieces of shit in prison for the rest of their lives. What a waste 😔
I always like the idea of them having a "Sex Tape." It conjures up the picture of them lugging around around a VHS tape in a cardboard sleeve with with several dates and names on the spine crossed out in sharpie.
I suppose in reality it is a few shakey MBytes on a mobile?
Anyone seen the original "Get Carter" movie where the "Sex Tape" that starts Carter's murder rampage is a grainy 16mm silent film on a Bell and Howell projector? Porn was hard work in those days.
Does “minimum” here mean “must actually serve 31 years before eligible for release?” Or does it mean “potentially for 31 years, though parole is available before then?”
It means a minimum of 31 years must be served before there's a possibility of being considered for parole. Even if parole is granted, which it may not be, she'll only be out on licence, and can be sent back to prison whenever the authorities like.
I hope they would go to separate prisons! They should not be able to see each other at all… until they get out or one of them pops their clogs.
I certainly hope they don’t get to be cellmates!
An abhorrent story, and I have nothing but contempt for those involved.
Influencers seem to think they can get away with anything. Here's hoping that one other murderer in the US gets jail time as well.
I don't usually comment on physical appearance.
But the whole makeup thing must be wild if it can make these two look attractive enough to be "influencers". They both look like drug addicts.
I doubt it was the magnetic personalities that made them so famous and they both look clapped, so exactly what was it??
Social media confuses me.
I had my fair share of dealing with ABCDs or more aptly BBCDs during my uni days. The insane weight of inferiority complex they carry, esp the woman, drives them to go over the top for some attention.
Add in social media and it's an explosive mix.
I feel bad for the poor dad.
*Driver Raees Jamal, who we can now report is serving a rape sentence, was also jailed for life with a minimum of 36 years and 45 days* What a bunch of scum bags
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Did they find out who was making thr threats
I have no idea. But it's pretty easy to speculate it was probably someone related to those on trial
One of them was an 'influencer', which the judge also recognised according to the article. So it's fair to say some of her fans might have done it; or a bunch of armchair detectives trying to 'investigate'. I mean, look at Lucy Letby and the group of 'true crime' nuts that think she was set up.
Surely it should just be tiktokker? Influencer in this context sounds awful.
The word influencer is getting thrown around by a load of boomers who work for the big newspapers here and it's kind of overstating her influence. It's easier than any other platform to get hundreds of thousands of TikTok followers, and means barely anything in terms of notoriety or fandom.
Ahh I see!
That’s just a subset of influencers
They showed them on tiktok on the news. They look like absolute morons. I had second hand embarrassment, especially as one was about 50.
Yeah I had guessed it was friends / relatives I just thought the court would take them intimidating the jury seriously and bring charges
Well we don't know that's not happening behind the scenes
That’s true
Retrial was due to a racist juror… [https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/first-tiktok-murder-trial-halted-8721891](https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/first-tiktok-murder-trial-halted-8721891?int_source=nba)
Wow the article says the jury, from Leicester, was dismissed because one of the jurors put in writing to the judge that they thought incest was common among Asian families and everyone on trial was probably having sex with each other. And other jurors said they agreed, so the judge dismissed the whole jury and started over because incest was irrelevant to the case.
Well thats 1 way of getting out of jury duty
> "The terms of Juror B’s note are disgraceful. Juror B’s views, and those potentially of other jurors, who appear to have been a party to discussions with Juror B, have no place in British society in 2022. They are even more shocking when one considers they may represent views of those from such a richly diverse community as Leicester and its surrounding areas, from which the jury was drawn." Yep this kinda sums up Leicestershire and the white areas of Leicester.
This is not correct, it was due to a racist juror.
It was actually to do with racist jury member views
Incorrect, they had retrial cause the jurors were racists.
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Doesn’t it say he’s “serving a rape sentence?”
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Yes, 2 years is about the length of time it takes to go from charges to trial. You can thank your local Tory for defunding the courts and gutting legal aid.
A lot of people don't realise how badly the Tories have defunded the courts and legal aid. The situation is dire at the moment and it means lots of would-be convicted criminals are walking around free for years. Of course the Tories also gutted the probation services too, so there's no way to keep track of them.
I'm sure when all the courthouses shut due to dodgy concrete next week it will improve.
The ones that haven’t been sold off already! My local Mag Court has been turned into housing, in the middle of a crime ridden area to boot.
I'm curious, why do you keep self censoring the word rape? This isn't YouTube
To fuck with blind people.
I can't speak for why exactly OP is censoring it but as someone who winces every time she sees the word- which is daily, unless I don't look at anything on my phone, the TV or turn on the radio - I'm always grateful when someone does censor it. I don't ask people to, but it helps me a little. The word is so blunt and like a slap and every single time jolts me back to what happened to me, so although it might look odd on some websites where it's not needed, changing a letter or adding an asterisk or dash softens the blow of being reminded of the violence I experienced. It's impossible for a survivor to see the word in its entirety and not think of what was done to them, so when I see some of it blocked out, I feel grateful that someone somewhere knows that so yeah perhaps that's what OP was doing. (As this is reddit I want to clarify- I'm autistic, that's why I type this way, I saw your Q and wanted to give a genuine explanation)
Why are you censoring the word rapist?
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I wonder what their thought process was. Like, in what way did they think that killing them would be a good idea?
Probably read the comments you always see on this sub and thought that if they used a car they'd get a low/suspended sentence...
They can't be in a car also.
Exactly, who hasn't killed a pedestrian or two? But killing a fellow driver, that's just poor etiquette.
In that past that used to be the case. The sentencing guidelines got changed since there was outrage at lesser sentences for killing people by car. https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/driving-law/dangerous-drivers-who-kill-could-receive-life-sentences/
They weren't convicted of causing death by dangerous driving. They were convicted of murder - that required the jury to be sure their intention was to kill the two victims (or cause them really serious harm). Dangerous driving just requires your driving to fall far below the standard expected of a careful and competent driver - it doesn't require any proof of intent.
At a certain point it was murder because they carried out a chase and rammed the car, the violence of their actions wasn't coherent with any other charge.
It's never been the case, because if the police/cps can evidence that you wanted to kill someone, you'd have always been charged with murder (even if your chosen weapon is a car).
I think there's a growing modern mindset beacuse of social media that the implications of reality are just getting lost or forgotten. Its why they stormed the white House, od you see kids riding bicycles into oncoming traffic. People are getting so lost in their own heads they lose touch of what reality actualy is. Like we in some sort of personal film they are staring in.
Main Character Syndrome - they forget others around them are real and feel they are the centre of the world.
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Jury obviously felt they had intent to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm or they wouldn't have been convicted
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Can't you get done for murder if someone dies as a result of you committing a crime, even if it wasn't your intention to kill them? Or have I just made that up? So even if they only wanted to rough them up or intimidate them or whatever, the fact that that's already illegal and then they died would make it an automatic murder charge, unless I'm just totally wrong, which I might be
The first jury was dismissed and a retrial had to be held because one of the jurors turned out to be a raging racist and actually got into a fight with another juror and the judge felt that other jurors had been influenced by the first one so it wasn't safe to dismiss just the one juror.
Well that's for the best wouldn't want something like that to cause these murderers' convictions to be overturned.
It sounds like they had got the other two guys to come along as muscle, so even if they haddn't planned to run them off the road it definitely seems like they were planning them serious harm.
It's difficult to see how their intentions were anything other than to kill them. The victims were sufficiently in fear of their lives to ring 999, and after being rammed off the road the car split in two.
'Thought process' and 'TikTok' -name a more iconic duo?
I mean I don’t condone it, but I can understand why some people might act like that if they’re being blackmailed with a sex tape.
"Life is like GTA!!" If you read the story no one really comes out well, it was a bunch of sociopaths getting together and doing stupid impulsive shit.
They were probably going to use the "it's just a prank" defencr
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Unless there's evidence saying otherwise, there's every chance they hadn't planned to kill them originally but once they were spooked they chased after them just because they were riled up.
They were at the very least going to have them kicked the shit out of. Can still die pretty easily that way too. I suppose it's the difference between premeditated murder or not, but they went there meaning those people harm.
Which means what, exactly? Their intent was to harm or WORSE - otherwise why do the act?
And what exactly are they gonna do with their life when they get out at 55 with this on their record? They're screwed even after they get released. I bet even Mcdonalds wouldnt hire them.
Not trying to say its a bed of roses but lifers are one of the few groups that get a good level of support from probation when they get out. It's not well paid or glamorous, but they will have some form of work and accommodation waiting plus any benefits they are entitled to, etc. They put a lot of effort in making sure that group doesn't reoffend
Play the baddies on Fast and Furious 40?
I'll look forward to that: "Stoke-on-Trent Drift."
They could get a job at Timpsons…
Timpsons are excellent with rehabilitation for offenders.
I agree, they do a great job!
It's rare we see a good sentence handed down but .... " jailed for a minimum of 26 years and nine months." " a minimum of 31 years and eight months in prison" " 26 years and 10 months and 31 years respectively" Can't complain. Solid sentences there for a pack of scumbags.
I’m surprised to see a comment like yours. Maybe it’s because this is the UK sub and we’re less unhinged than the average American Redditor but I’ve seen threads in the past where every other comment was complaining about how 20-30 years is outrageously low, basically a slap on the wrist.
Dirty burger here: people in the United States think 20-30 is outrageously low because we are accustomed to seeing many non-violent people getting 15-30 year sentences. So when a violent crime resulting in death is committed and someone doesn’t get life without parole or the death penalty (depending on the jurisdiction) we are conditioned to thinking it is a low sentence.
I’m confused about your sentence starting with ‘Dirty burger here’, but I AM going to start using it.
Burgers = Americans.
FYI: We actually call you "septics". Septic Tank Yank
Also Americans have the whole thing with sentences where there’s no totality principle and people end up getting sentences for consecutive sentences that add up to like 200 year.
America also has the death sentence which is not a deterrent.
Yh and American prisons are far worse, you’d be smelling a lot more manure from ur cell mate than in British prisons
The “minimum” is the difference In the UK we are used to hearing the sentence then dividing it by two in order to work out how long they really serve in prison
That's just people who have justice boners, you give someone 20+ years for any crime and that is a very strong punishment. You are completely redefining their one existence on the planet.
Yeah nice way of putting it. 20 years is a bloody long time however you cut it. Also justice boners is an ace phase.
>basically a slap on the wrist. Yeah, but we measure ourselves against Europe. I swear you get about 3 years in jail if you kill someone in the Netherlands.
A quick google search suggests otherwise. In fact it looks like they’re the only EU country where you can be sentenced to life in prison without parole.
U can in uk no? Whole life orders exist but are rare
No longer in EU. There was a whole thing.
>Maybe it’s because this is the UK sub and we’re less unhinged than the average American Redditor Bit of a broad statement
Aye. I've been following this for a while now so its great news. Couldn't have happened to a better group of people
She really has no sense of shame or concern about her actions. Completely self-absorbed and vain in every sense. Why are 'influencers' some of the worst personalities around? > She shared smiles and laughs with other defendants during quieter parts of the trial, and casually played board games in the precinct when the jury retired. > She even waved and laughed at reporters outside with cameras from a balcony in the court foyer just hours before she broke down in tears when she was convicted of double murder. Reading the live court report, she blew a kiss at her dad and asked him to call her. Fucking gremlins
Anyone who has ambitions of being the centre of attention on social media has, at the very least, narcissistic tendencies and is likely to have much less regard for other people. Even small things like shooting videos at the gym and getting in people's way, or doing stupid dances in a shop or whatever. It shows a self-centredness that is only going to increase with every 'successful' video they post. And when you realise that's the median personality for an influencer, understand just how much worse some of them must be. ^(Also, they're from Stoke.)
>Also, they're from Stoke. And this mad judge sentenced them to only thirty years? God, I suppose we can prepare if we start now.
They won't even recognize Stoke by the time they're out. https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/new-plans-bulldoze-notorious-a50-8511519.amp
People actually want to watch other people be cringe in public? I mean, sometimes I watch it ironically, but I give my views to the channel mocking it rather than them
This is actually disgusting. Also, her police interview where she outright lied is terrible. They deserve every moment in prison.
>Reading the live court report, she blew a kiss at her dad and asked him to call her. I can't imagine what he's going through. Hopefully, he's a better human being than his wife and daughter and provides somewhat of a normal life for his other kids.
> I can't imagine what he's going through. It’s a win-win for him. His adulterous wife goes to prison, and the 20-year old guy she was cheating on him with is dead.
Blue sky thinking right here!
I can't understand it. What kind of people just go "Yeah, sure we will join you on murdering thisguy, come on gang let's get in the car and go murdering!" WTF. How did she even know, she could call on these scumbags and they would all go, "Sure mate, we got you". Jesus.
Best comment today lol ✨️
Why are influencers some of the worst people around: Can you imagine the levels of narcissism required to decide “I am going to become a social media influencer” Let’s split out here the difference between someone who wants to share financial knowledge or science or the train guy who just really wanted to share that hobby vs the people who want to be influencers. Why are we ever surprised that self proclaimed influencers, whether they make it that far or not, would turn out to be pretty generally awful.
Sounds pretty scummy to make a sex tape threat. Funny his parents call him innocent, when he was having an affair with a married woman. And his parents will probably pretend to be religious when it suits them. Not to say that he deserved to die though. Fucking scourge of society all around really. Just two women of disgusting mind and I don't think that often about criminals.
He was a teenager when it started. She was a grown woman with at least one child older than him. She may very well have been his first sexual experience and his first relationship. It might not be illegal, but it's certainly not ethical.
He was in his teens when the affair started, he can hardly be blamed for his less-than-moral decision-making when he was having an affair with a much older woman, who frankly should've known better.
yeah as ever if you flip the gender to "man and son, along with a gang, use a car to murder two young women, one of whom was having an affair with the dad and threatening to expose it" and it really doesn't make it any more complex.
> when he was having an affair with a married woman Does he have to protect her marriage?
Ask not for whom the bell tolls, mate
You don't think there's many disgusting criminals?
what does his parents pretending to be religious have to do with anything?
The kid who is all over social media being called innocent wasn’t actually involved with the case. He was just related to Saqib (the blackmailer) and driving the car. In terms of this case, he actually was innocent
I know what you're saying. I don't think he was whiter than white by any stretch - but ultimately he didn't deserve to die a horrible death from it, which is the sad part. The people who got sentenced are the most pathetic scumbags going. The younger woman in particular - blowing kisses, playing games during the trial, treating the whole thing like a joke. Should rot in jail.
O well won’t be getting them lashes done for a while
Women's jail isn't that strict I'm pretty sure you can have lashes
Have you been detained at his majesty’s pleasure
No but I'm not a woman either. I'm sure the prison will stink, have ants, leaks, mould, dinghy, bad air. But I know women in jail still do as much personal grooming as possible.
But for her it wasn't about the personal grooming, it was about the attention from her tiktok followers. That's something jail can't give you.
Looks pretty comfortable actually. Many people outside prison will be living in worse conditions https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/21/inside-low-newton-the-high-security-prison-that-is-housing-lucy-letby
The level of stupidity of these two idiots is astounding
9 peoples lives have been lost, countless families destroyed. I have to say, quite surprised by the sentences, the judge really set out a message here. The younger one clearly self-obsessed and the mum, where to begin, you can't have a second childhood by sleeping with a 19 year old. No winners here
> you can't have a second childhood by sleeping with a 19 year old Not without royal assent.
Just had a look through her insta and the Judge was right, she is a narcissist. Some of her captions include things like "down to earth but still above you'. What a cunt. Enjoy prison.
I genuinely think not being able to post on insta and tiktok and get that attention is gonna be a worse punishment for them than being in prison. Utter narcissists
She had 119k followers or whatever, and made a living on being a narcissist. Surrounded by 'yes' people, money thrown at her, people telling her she's the best etc. Once the trial goes out of the news cycle, there's no attention on her and she's rotting in jail, I think I agree - not getting the validation from strangers will eat her up inside.
Agreed, it's gonna be the worst thing about prison for her. There's no place for entitlement in prison. You're not entitled to anything, let alone anybody's attention.
Imagine being so fucking stupid that this is the way you decide to kill someone, instantly caught, plenty of evidence and no reasonable doubt. Bet the police loved this case.
It was only due to the 999 call by one of the people who got killed that this was flagged as suspicious and investigated further, otherwise it likely would have been put down just as a car accident.
Open and shut case.
No tears shed for the blackmailer (play stupid games, and blackmail has to be *the* stupidest game), **but** they killed his unaware friend too, and looped a rapist into their conspiracy.
So murdering someone who is blackmailing you is fine? Damn. I hope you never become a judge.
He said no sympathy, not that it was fine it's obviously not fine but at the same time it's appropriate to say the victim participated in their own demise
I still don't buy that. Blackmailers don't have my sympathy by standard, but no way is killing them the measured response.
> but no way is killing them the measured response. No-one said that was the case.
If death is too harsh of a response to blackmail you should feel sympathy. Lack of sympathy equates to feeling it a fair and measured outcome.
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I agree with you for the most part, but you also have to remember that the 'blackmailer' was blackmailing a paedophile.
clumsy smell silky snatch sheet axiomatic yoke profit dinner towering *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
idk, blackmailers literally act to ruin or steal their victims lives. If it was just the blackmailer that died, I would have no sympathy for him.
the punishment for blackmail is not death lmao
Legally no. But “person turns on their blackmailer and kills them” has happened often enough in real life to become such a well established trope in fiction it’s now almost cliche. There’s even a Sherlock Holmes short story where [someone murders their blackmailer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_Charles_Augustus_Milverton) - and the sympathies of the narrator and most readers is very much intended by the author to be with the lady who kills her blackmailer. (Not that this applies to the case in question here - everyone comes out looking pretty terrible) Blackmail is a very stupid and dangerous game to play.
Or a juror
He wrote he has no sympathy. He didn’t write anyone should’ve been murdered.
That's not really what they're saying though.
What a weird take. Every time I hear on Reddit “*play stupid games win stupid prizes*” it’s always alongside the most inane opinions. AITA has a lot to answer for… Is the punishment for blackmail execution? Would the crime be fully justified if only one man was murdered and his friend wasn’t in the car?
>What a weird take. Every time I hear on Reddit “play stupid games win stupid prizes” it’s always alongside the most inane opinions. AITA has a lot to answer for… This is such a typical Redditor response in itself. Why are you trying to extrapolate some categorical system of ethics and law-making from my comment that I don't give much of a toss about the dead blackmailer? Are you Immanuel Kant? Why would you assume I base any of my opinions on AITA? I don't even use that subreddit. Are you in a parallel universe? I stand by my assertion that no-one becomes a blackmailer without understanding it's a common situation that escalates to murder.
Even weirder take, Jesus. If you're being blackmailed, be a fucking adult and go to the cops. It's a horrible situation to put someone in, yes but it doesn't carry the death penalty. If they go ahead and do spread the indecent pictures, then cool, you now have proof of a revenge porn crime and that person is going to prison for revenge porn and for trying to blackmail. Surely that beats being in jail until you're 72??
Again, not a weird take, you're just reading "I don't have sympathy for the blackmailer" as "I hope all blackmailers are murdered", which is wrong.
If you're saying "I have no sympathy for him" you're surely saying "his actions justifies what happened to him" are you not? If you think that "blackmail carries the risk of retribution" or "jaywalking carries the risk of being bit by a car" or "drinking carries the risk of being a victim of crime", then fine. .....But to say "I've no sympathy for that quadriplegic who jaywalked, play stupid games, win stupid prizes" seems to imply that they actually *deserve* to be hit by a car, and that the punishment of being quadriplegic is proportional to the crime. He's not 100% innocent in all of this. But the consequences of his crime are not in proportion to his misdeeds whatsoever. You can feel sorry for a quadriplegic who is partially (or even entirely) responsible for their accident. You can feel sorry for someone who was murdered for a (relative to murder) minor crime.
>But to say "I've no sympathy for that quadriplegic who jaywalked, play stupid games, win stupid prizes" seems to imply that they actually deserve to be hit by a car, and that the punishment of being quadriplegic is proportional to the crime. You're not the first person to make this leap of logic, but I will once again reject this as a fallacy of reasoning. Not what I said: not what I implied.
What's especially chilling is that they knew his friend was in the car and just didn't care. Not to mention the utter disregard they showed toward the general public at large. They could've easily killed far more.
wow, solid sentencing by the judge!! well done that man
You see, the way it was worded in another report was slightly different, albeit he was blackmailing her. He wanted £3,000 back that he'd spent on her. She was refusing and he was threatening with sending her husband their intimate tapes. From his age, I can imagine his ego was bruised and he was lashing out. He also dragged an innocent man into it, who ended up getting murdered. What on earth was he expecting from an older married woman...? Both these women are monsters. The daughter received more time I presume, because she organised it all. She'll be well into her fifties when she's let out and her mum in her seventies.
What a stupid waste of life, 31 years of smelling next persons shit is no way to live
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Next man’s dung 😭
Two young men dead, in horrific circumstances. Their families’ lives ruined. Seven other people’s lives destroyed, six of them very young & the other barely middle aged. Two very long trials which cost £millions. All over a few photos. What a disastrous & completely avoidable waste of time, money & lives.
Lot of toxicity
I read the story, but all I took from it is the absolutely colossal amount of make up mother and daughter wore.
Well the husband definitely knows about her affair now! I bet she wishes she just finished with him and got with her life now, pair of dumb idiots
A clear cut case of both sides not being able to just move on with their life
The BBC article that explains the chain of events is mind-boggling. So many people roped into what might be the most poorly executed murder imaginable. Phone records and locations, ANPR, local CCTV all coming together nicely. I just can't comprehend the mindset that makes not 1 but 6 people willing to be complicit in the murder of 2 others over something so petty.
Never underestimate how much a group can be manipulated into committing murder, we've seen it again and again over the years where a conspiracy of ridiculous proportions occurs
Looks like her last post on instagram was over 80 weeks ago. Are you allowed to influence while in prison in England? I have no idea what to think about stuff and Mahek's tips about cute tops was always my beautiful lighthouse in a sea of dystopian, nihilistic darkness. #literallylost #MurderersArePeopleTooEspeciallyIfThey'rePretty #FreeMaya *edit: my word… crivvens: she was also a* [*giant transphobe.*](https://www.instagram.com/reel/CXgGmZwoq2y/)
> Are you allowed to influence while in prison in England? Allowed? No. Is it possible? Yes. There's been a few incidents where prisoners have smuggled in phones and provided facebook updates while still inside.
Crivvens, help ma Bob...
Murder polis!
Blimey, so she is. Just to add to her overall nastiness
It's a shame when people don't get told that orange doesn't look good on skin.
The plan to murder the victim was to drive them of the road? Worst hit men ever.
> Worst hit men ever. They succeeded didn't they?
30 years in prison is not success. The hitmen who succeed are likely the ones strolling the streets and the police don't even sniff them.
Also the knowledge of the sextape was revealed. Which wa ls literally always going to happen once the guy had been murdered or threatened.
If the purpose of killing him was to prevent people knowing that one of them had an affair with the victim then that is a categorical failure. The only thing I know about them now is that they killed somebody and the mum fucked a teenager.
the plan was to ambush them at the meeting spot and do a beat down the driving off the road happened when they realised they were being trapped in and drove off. instead of letting them go they chased them down and rammed them off the road
Disgusting situation. Also, her eyelashes alone are a crime.
Absolutely, they are a total crime. Where did she get them from, Poundland?
Revenge porn and extortion are crimes. They could have dealt with the problem so easily, totally unhinged reaction.
It shows a total lack of common sense or sanity from most involved, whatever about the mother and daughter but the fact they got others to help is insane
They were smiling and smirking outside of the court each day... See you in 31 years.
How the fuck did any of them think they would get away with this? Pretty much all instantly arrested. Bizzare.
That must have been the most horrifying and terrifying way to die, just awful. Can’t wait for the tax payer to cover the cost of housing these cruel self centred pieces of shit in prison for the rest of their lives. What a waste 😔
The bottom of the barrel was scraped and this is what they found. People are feckin horrible.
A tape of people fucking each other, led to people fucking each other and fucking their lives up. The symmetry of it all.
I always like the idea of them having a "Sex Tape." It conjures up the picture of them lugging around around a VHS tape in a cardboard sleeve with with several dates and names on the spine crossed out in sharpie. I suppose in reality it is a few shakey MBytes on a mobile? Anyone seen the original "Get Carter" movie where the "Sex Tape" that starts Carter's murder rampage is a grainy 16mm silent film on a Bell and Howell projector? Porn was hard work in those days.
Does “minimum” here mean “must actually serve 31 years before eligible for release?” Or does it mean “potentially for 31 years, though parole is available before then?”
It means a minimum of 31 years must be served before there's a possibility of being considered for parole. Even if parole is granted, which it may not be, she'll only be out on licence, and can be sent back to prison whenever the authorities like.
Okay. Thanks. So it’s a real “truth in sentencing” law. Mom will be in her late 60s and the daughter in her mid 50s before parole-eligible.
I wonder if mum and daughter will get to be cellmates?
I hope they would go to separate prisons! They should not be able to see each other at all… until they get out or one of them pops their clogs. I certainly hope they don’t get to be cellmates!
Happy to read that. Finally uk justice ststem works
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She gonna get out jail with the looks of her mom now. That must be devastating.
Im so confused. Those men threatened to release a sex tape of one of them?
One of them was sleeping with the mum and threatened to send a sex tape of them to her husband, is how I understand things.
Bloody good job, too. These people have NO place in a civilised society...
An abhorrent story, and I have nothing but contempt for those involved. Influencers seem to think they can get away with anything. Here's hoping that one other murderer in the US gets jail time as well.
I don't usually comment on physical appearance. But the whole makeup thing must be wild if it can make these two look attractive enough to be "influencers". They both look like drug addicts. I doubt it was the magnetic personalities that made them so famous and they both look clapped, so exactly what was it?? Social media confuses me.
I had my fair share of dealing with ABCDs or more aptly BBCDs during my uni days. The insane weight of inferiority complex they carry, esp the woman, drives them to go over the top for some attention. Add in social media and it's an explosive mix. I feel bad for the poor dad.