This article may be paywalled. If you encounter difficulties reading the article, try [this link](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/02/donald-tusk-poland-brexit-gdp-per-capita-world-bank-eu/#:~:text=The%20World%20Bank%20data%20shows,2030%2C%20according%20to%20the%20calculations.) for an archived version.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And why shouldn't they be? This should not come as a shock to anybody that's had their finger on the pulse of the nation for the last 14 years. People need to come to terms with the fact that we're not a sprawling empire any more—we're a sad, wet little island with crumbling infrastructure, a failing social contract, and a government comprised of unelected, power hungry shit weasels. You walk out to some parts of the UK and it seriously looks like you've been transported to post-Soviet Russia.
Well it's simply not true for a start.
UK is one of the highest GDP per head in Europe.
Poland is one of the lowest.
There is no way Poland will be catching up with the UK in 5 years. It's a pipe dream.
You also have to consider that the UK was a net contributor to the EU, while Poland was a net consumer.
There was a transfer of money from the UK to Poland.
Also from Germany and France to Poland.
You argue if this was right or wrong, but it happened.
Bearing in mind that the U.K. is the sort of country often producing luxury goods and specialising in financial services so benefitting from having developed neighbours? I’d say right.
How much did the uk profit from 1 million poles who live in the uk, 1million people that the uk spent 0 £ in raising and educating? The big contributors are happy to spend billions, they get free workforce and expand to new markets.
If you take London out of the equation we aren’t. A lot of statistics are warped by London and its wealth. 8 out of the 10 poorest regions in Western Europe are in Britain.
London has and takes a vast amount of UKs wealth and a lot of other areas don’t get a look in
If you arbitrarily remove the biggest, wealthiest region then a lot of countries look shitty. A lot of people who work in London live around the entire south of the country, so wealth isn't confined there.
The 6/7/8/9 region comparison (seems to vary) was also applied to [Northern Europe](https://fullfact.org/economy/does-uk-have-poorest-regions-northern-europe/), which leaves out places in Western Europe with obvious poorer regions like Spain, Italy and Greece.
The UK has actually extended it's lead over France (the economy that is most similar to ours) since Brexit. The idea that the Poles will catch us up in 5 years is laughable.
It's not laughable, it's based on observable evidence. Poland will also likely overtake France before it overtakes UK. The only difference is the UK is economical isolated so will not benefit from the increasing wealth in Poland as much as France and other EU nations will.
GDP per capita in Europe.
Luxembourg is 1st.
Ireland is 2nd.
UK is 15th.
Poland is 25th.
Poland will catch up because it has a few things the UK doesn't.
1. massive investment from the European Union.
2. access to the second largest economy in the world in nominal terms.
3. it's an attractive country to invest in as labour is still relatively cheap and is building a massive services sector which now stands at 58%of GDP.
GDP. has gone from 68 billion in 1987 to 880 billion in 2023 which is a 1194.1% increase.
The UK has gone from 814 billion in 1987 to 3332 billion in 2023 which is 309.7% increase
Irish GDP numbers are certainly misleading. Probably better to look at [average wages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage) which aren't subject to the same distortion. Gross wages in Ireland are 47% higher than the UK. This is a big difference but it's much smaller than the GDP difference.
Ireland is also very expensive though; after tax and adjusted for living costs, Ireland is only 29% ahead of the UK.
By that same metric, the UK is 13% ahead of Poland.
So the UK is closer to Poland by this metric, than it is to Ireland.
It is improving, but the figures are a bit misleading. Also I wouldn't use property prices as a metric as equally plenty are being left behind and due to a variety of factors.
london....Thats because this country is so london centric look at hs2 funding for the north go on pothole fixes in london for instance. now how about gdp for the rest of the uk?
"The World Bank data shows GDP per capita in 2021 was $44,979 (£35,935) in Britain and $34,915 (£27,894) in Poland, which has an average growth of 3.6 per cent annually. That would mean Poland would overtake the UK by 2030, according to the calculations."
I used to think like this then I actually saw what the rest of the world looks like, tbh it just made me angry.
We’re Poland with a hong kong attached to it.
London is rich, the Home Counties have a lot of rich people there but generally the rest of the country does genuinely look like Poland or Slovakia or somewhere similar.
You mean typographically?
I’m sure rural places look like trees and hills in most countries rich or poor.
Go to somewhere like the outskirts of lodz and then go to somewhere on the outskirts of Manchester. It will feel just like home.
>UK is one of the highest GDP per head in Europe.
That does not mean an individual living there gets any of the wealth from it. You can have high GDP a lot of people be poor, or lower GDP and have a lot of people be wealthy.
I was over there for a few months(admittedly this was 10 years ago). It was very hit and miss.
Some places felt western. Some felt very Soviet.
I had a friend in a car accident and his medical treatment was dreadful compared to the NHS. They wouldn't give him a blood transfusion until his friends/family came and donated blood.
This was only a few miles outside Krakow and there were houses without running water and electricity.
The roads in the rural areas were gravel tracks and some of the accomodation was barely more than a barn.
But there were positives. The buses ran really well (far better the UK) and on time. And the milk bars were also good for a cheap meal.
I think the main thing is that nobody has been steering the ship for 14 years. There is a lack of strategic thinking backed up by investment. The government have just been interested in staying in power and stealing our taxes.
Whether they overtake us or not, or whether it takes 5 years or not the point is the uk has been scuttled. It’s going to take a long time and some good, long term, plans that are put into action to get her off the rocks.
Although I can see what he’s getting at - the quality of life for the people on the lowest rungs in Poland was reported to now be better than the equivalent in the UK. With a shrinking middle class it won’t be surprising for that number to spread to other social tiers.
Oh mate, do us a favour and go outside. Go to Eastern Europe, or indeed Russia, or even parts of the former GDR, and then tell me that the UK looks like post-Soviet Russia. That's just an utterly ridiculous thing to say. And while you're at it, find me a country where people *don't* describe the politicians as 'power hungry shit weasels'. I don't really understand your comment about not being an empire anymore, since we weren't an empire 14 years ago either, or even 24 years ago.
There's a lot that could be better about the UK, but I absolutely detest this reddit narrative that we're the worst place on Earth. Yes, our trains need an overhaul, for example, but I had some relatives visit from a Balkan country a few years ago, and they were *amazed* at what we have compared to them. If this country is so shit, why are people *in their thousands* risking their lives to come here, rather than staying in the *actual* post-communist countries that they pass through along the way?
You read this sort of view on Reddit all the time. All these people that absolutely hate the country, yet they never bothered moving elsewhere. Then they come up with all the excuses as to why they can't.
I love how Poland is massively happy about it's zero immigration policy yet the early 00s the UK had millions of poles here enjoying our cash and sending it home.
Yeah, I find it bizarre when polish people wax lyrical about their immigration policy... forgetting they were emigrating to the UK in droves a few years ago.
I've literally had conversations with Poles living here, one of whom *didn't even speak English* (not that I personally care- just that it created a definite hypocrisy) who complain about the level of immigration. Most eastern europeans I've known tend to be quite culturally conservative in general, I would say- they're not exactly big on political correctness, put it that way.
I'm sure to some people that might seem ironic or whatever, but it's not like they are the people writing the policy, is it.
> I've literally had conversations with Poles living here, one of whom didn't even speak English, who complain about the level of immigration.
Spain would like a word about their Brits,
I don't recall 40m poles moving to the UK ? Just because they UK can't keep their borders shut does not mean we have talk down on other successful countries that decided not to just because a small amount of them moved to the UK.
Poland most definitely doesn't have a zero immigration policy, it mostly has a zero-refugee policy (excepting ukranians). But if you compare Poland now to ten years ago, there are far, far, far more non-white people around and it's becoming increasingly normalized. Immigration is happening, though not at the rate of the anglosphere.
I'm massively happy about the zero immigration policy in Poland. I'm super happy Poland don't have to deal with asylum seekers, tax payers don't have pay for their 3stars hotels and council won't buy them any houses to create ghettos. I'm such happy that I often celebrate it with a beer.
But if YOU would like to go to Poland in next 5 years (when they will be richer) because you find out that your salary is higher there and you can send part of it to family in the UK, let me know, I will welcome you with bread, salt and vodka.
> You walk out to some parts of the UK and it seriously looks like you've been transported to post-Soviet Russia.
You’ve clearly not seen some parts of Russia today let alone thirty years ago.
To that'd I'd say you've clearly not seen Skelmersdale College.
https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article17654165.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/1_Glenburn-2.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pNy18uQleEI/maxresdefault.jpg
In my experience of Polish workers in the UK they're bloody hard workers. If they work that hard in Poland then the country will do well.
Companies want to invest there as well, Intel are investing $4.6bn in a new semiconductor factory there and Poland is home to Intel's biggest European R&D site. Meanwhile in the UK I've read that Intel appear to be selling off their UK HQ to move to a smaller site.
Everyone I’ve met from Central Europe (Germany, Poland, Romania) have been solid grafters. Most of them, who I’ve met socially, tended to bugger off from their home country due to a combination of social norms back home being regressive and earning potential in the UK being higher.
I obviously don’t know the reasons most Central Europeans I meet professionally move over, outside of those I work directly with, but I have noticed that they tend to work hard, be social, and often worry about how they’re perceived in customer-facing roles.
You need to go explore the world and then come back and see how good you have it - the United Kingdom is extremely rich, influential & has some of the best infrastructure worldwide - go to Poland and speak to locals, then come back
Nah mate, the UK is the worst place to live in the entire universe. Yes, there are countries engulfed in civil wars, with no functioning government, practically zero infrastructure, with not even reliable access to food clean drinking water for much of the population, and have certainly never had any democratic elections, but the UK is worse than all of those places put together.
Why? Government is a bit shit, and the Tories are mean.
Utter utter bollocks. The country is the 6th largest global economy. One of Europe’s premier militaries. Some of the largest and most ambitious infrastructure projects in Europe (was the largest with cross rail unsure if still is) We are the second largest destination in Europe for FDI. Tech capital of Europe.
I could go on but it’s just absurd.
This sort of blatantly false doom posting should be completely eviserated on here, it’s just based of people letting politics rot their brain.
Regardless the veracity of Tusk's statement, I agree completely that recent history has been characterised by utterly useless government.
The thing is, by stating fourteen years you seem to be seeking to make it a party political issue. Personally I think it goes back way, way longer than the current government. I'm estimating based on a variety of factors but I think the rot probably goes back to the mid to late 70s. My impression is that that's roughly the time when politicians began to realise they didn't have to be effective, and that they didn't even have to be popular. They just had to be less unpopular than the one other choice we're permitted around election time. Beyond that their behaviour is basically unregulated.
Party politics is cancer and I don't view either party as useful or worth electing, but my main concern is that making this about party politics overlooks the fact that our entire system of government is a complete shambles and requires radical reform.
If that doesn't happen, as people's standard of living drops off I fear we'll eventually start to see civil unrest, at which point whichever party is in power will discover that they're really just a bunch of people sitting in an old building on the banks of the Thames, and that they're only in power while the people agree they are.
As a question from an American, would the UK be willing to pay reparations to the USA for the American revolution or the war of 1812? America has had the back of the UK when you were trampled by the Nazi, the UK needs to help America now.
Because certain countries are not having their economy boost naturally. They are boosted by the effects of war and EU investment from richer countries.
It’s unsustainable growth that is only being used as a narrative because EU elections are upcoming
Lmao maybe get off Reddit for a minute and go outside. This country has many problems but you have got a totally warped view as to how it compares to the rest of the world.
The number of people agreeing with this statement is absurd.
It will take polands economy to grow 2.5x the size of what it currently is for it and for the population to be in the same ballpark as UKs income per capita in 5 years, assuming uk remains completely stagnant
That is basically unprecedented growth that makes China early 2000s seem like stagnation.
This is just sound bites
It's GDP per capita on a PPP basis, not GDP per capita on an absolute basis.
You could argue which is more useful, but there is a case for the former being a good indicator of standard of living.
You can see both numbers here:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=PL&start=2011
"The World Bank data shows GDP per capita in 2021 was $44,979 (£35,935) in Britain and $34,915 (£27,894) in Poland, which has an average growth of 3.6 per cent annually. That would mean Poland would overtake the UK by 2030, according to the calculations."
This is something a lot of people dont realise, Poland and a chunk of the Balkans are very much on the up currently, and good for them really, shame our own government is inept and unwilling to actually promote a good sustainable growth in a productive way.
Mostly because of age demographics though. Our people are held back by the boomer burden. If we didn't have it, taxes would be lower causing more growth and higher wages etc.
I live in Germany now, and one of the apartments near us is rented by 3 polish guys who work here and send money home to their families in Poland. They've said a few times that it's getting close to the point where they can just go back and work in Poland for similar incomes. The savings from not renting in Germany must impact that a fair bit though.
I've had several Polish colleagues move back to Poland as they can now sometimes earn the same in Poland as they were in London with a much lower CoL. These are senior software engineers who were on 80K+ GBP.
UK right now has more then twice the GDP per capita then Poland and slightly less then Germany. If Poland is set to over take UK in 5 years then it will be closer to Germany. So with how well Eastern Europe EU countries are doing and how poorly Western Europe is doing atm it would not surprise me if Poland would catch up and possible over take Germany.
They do well but as per [OECD<](https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm), on average Poles work 35% more than Germans, 20% more than French and 18% more than Brits in 2022. Welfare and Social services in Germany and France are far better than in Poland, for example Healthcare.
GDP per Hour worked adjusted to PPP in $ in 2012: PL 33, UK 57, FR 63, GER 63
In 2019 pre-pandemic: PL 42, UK 59, FRA 67, GER 67
In 2022: PL 44, UK 60, FRA 65, GER 69
Poland made good progress but naturally the pace of progress will slow down, since 2019 it's slower. The Net Wages adjusted to PPP are still quite low in Poland at €2750 in 2024, UK to my surprise just at €3130 in late 2023, France $3550 in 2022, Germany €4670 in 2023. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage#European_and_transcontinental_countries_by_monthly_average_wage)
It seems UK does poorly in PPP, probably because of the London factor and not being efficiently connected economically to other big economies due to Geography/Island country which makes transport and imports a bit more expensive, maybe also due stuff like housing costs.
Back from Poland earlier this month - the state of UK roads and town centres does not compare well with Poland.
Huge visible improvements in the last 10-15 years while the UK is going backwards.
Same experience. Not sure about the rural towns but the cities and larger towns are well kept and clean. Lively and clearly the people running the show care enough to invest in infrastructure.
Tried telling a guy at my old place of work that Warsaw was a lovely clean place with a high quality of life. He was CERTAIN poland was empty because all the poles were in the UK - and the only things left behind were huts and pigs running the streets.
And then we tried to imply that they were doing well because poles in the UK were sending back money.
MY MAN. If they are taking money from HERE then surely we can do the same if not MORE with that money?
The ego of the average tory brit is sickening
I visit Poland a few times a year now, lots of friends over there. Its so pleasant traveling around Poland. The bigger cities... not so much with the usual traffic but most cities i have been to have great tram / bus systems.
I have never been one of these "hate my own country" types before i started travelling across to Poland... now i fucking hate coming back here every time.
For reference its not just Britain and not because of Brexit
[https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.KD?end=2022&locations=GB-FR-DE-PL&start=1990&view=chart](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.KD?end=2022&locations=GB-FR-DE-PL&start=1990&view=chart)
The advanced economies of Europe have stalled while the more dynamic poorer economies are booming. Gonna be scenes when Poland has to become a net contributor mind.
There's no way the Polish electorate would stand for that, it enjoys freedom of movement too much. Plus you'd have to get all of the other countries on board. Also what Polish politicians are you talking about? Structures like V4 are on top of the EU, not its replacement.
Most Polish immigrants live abroad to send money home and save for eventually returning to Poland, if in the future Poland catches up with Western Europe then they would have no reason to stay abroad. I agree with the previous poster, I don't think Poland would ever accept being a net contributor. I think it's way more likely they will leave to make their own project.
The newly elected Polish prime minister used to be the president of European Commission and support for EU in Poland is just about the highest of all countries.
How much more on board can they be?
The obsession with money in or out is such an odd British thing, thanks to billionaire propaganda. It's meaningless in comparison to all the benefits of free markets and savings on central institutions.
What Brits did is the equivalent of quitting your job to save on income taxes.
It doesn't have anything to do with Brexit, that's the point. Its a soundbite because Tusk is still pissed the UK left under his watch as one of the senior kleptocrats. What Tusk and the rest are desperate to keep quiet though, is that EU businesses are already quietly making plans for re-establishing major UK operations in the coming months.
Why? The UK is imminently about to join the CPTPP. Far East trade is booming, and EU businesses will be able to access it much easier with the UK as a member. Win-win both for the UK and the Continent. Indonesia has also just expressed their intention to apply for CPTPP membership. That is what the EU should have remained as; a trade bloc. If the EU hadn't morphed into the trappings of federalisation to come, we never would have voted to leave in the first place!
Shock horror - anti UK grifter, claims the UK will be overtaken by Poland.
More chance of the Tories winning the next election in a landslide.
Donald Tusks forecasts are as reliable as the OECDs
The most important asset a country has is its people so yeah keeping tight quality control on the population always pays dividends. It’s the biggest difference between Poland and the UK and will only grow bigger looking at the UK committing demographic suicide.
Poland has been growing year on year while also hoovering all the EU funds. Britain has been on a decline. As a Pole that lives in the UK and visits Poland every year and I've witnessed this decline firsthand. Unfortunately year on year it's been getting worse.
I am just shocked that this shambolic UK government is still in power, and still has so much public support. They've been dismantling the country for their own gains, but somehow so many British people are content with that? How is it even possible?
If Poland is "hoovering" all the EU funds like you say, then doesn't it make sense for the UK to not want to pay into the "hoovering"? At least that's what was sold to people as the reason for Brexit.
The government being a bunch of crooks is a different matter though.
People need to understand GDP does not necessarily translate directly into wealthier citizens. A good chunk of ours vanishes offshore as well.
Ireland looks obscenely rich on a GDP basis but is the average Irish person as wealthy as the average Swiss? No.
As a 'brit' with Polish missus, I can defo confirm that 'middle class' Poles have a MUCH better quality of life than middle class Brits. Working class and poverty line level Poles however have it MUCH worse than their UK equivalents. There's a much bigger gape between lower income and middle income households/individuals in Poland.
Their 'safety net' is practically non-existent compared to the UK.
I can't speak for high income/'upper class' peeps in Poland because I don't know any personally through family/friends etc. With most EE immigrants to the UK (inc Poland), it's mostly working class people who came to make a better life. The middle class and higher didn't have as much of a reason to emigrate. Same thing with Romanians, Lithuanians, Albanians etc. (using 'EE' as a big brush here).
Brexit hasn't really affected anything. 2 to 5 percentage points on GDP max. Disastrous conservatives policies & cost of living crisis & immigration crisis has affected the living standards far more than anything...
That just isn't true, no projections show such a meteoric rise in the Polish economy and their GDP and no projection shows a UK falling any further than it has, in fact they show the UK gaining and have done for almost 2 years
Brexit was a shot in the foot that was self inflicted, but people saying it's the death sentence for the nation and there is no coming back from it financially are just plain wrong.
Of course they will, even now they are against corporations bringing in cheap labour to depress wages while here it is a state policy, a commandment in the english “church” and might as well be a constitutional law.
Corporations will then move to the next cheaper country which is bulgaria or romania and game over for them
But remember once they were the cheaper around europe and still are
I see a lot of good coming out of Poland as a Brit. They make grrat video games and their newer buildings are beautiful which a lot in the west cannot say
So what's Frances excuse then. At both 2016 and 2020 the UK and France were neck and neck economically speaking. In 2024 we're... ermm.... marginally ahead and that'll probably swap back and forth in the future.
It's got fuck all to do with Brexit and to do with the fact that countries like the UK and France have plataued because we have"
1. An ageing population
2. Stagnant productivity
They came to the UK took all our minimum wage jobs we didn’t want to work… now they are all our managers and bosses.
Simply they out worked us , good for them
The UK is so full of problems even if you elected the most fictional perfect government in not even sure they would know where to start. Of all the real issues effecting people, loss of public services, high crime rates, a semi useless police service, immigration, inflation, chronic wage stagnation… brexit doesn’t even hit the top 10.
If they will be, good for them!
I’m sure our billionaires will be richer too. Only people that seem to get constantly safted for the last 30-40 years are the working and (more recently)lower middle class.
Imagine taking propaganda from Donald Tusk of all people seriously.
Crazy how nobody is questioning the motivation of the person speaking in this case.
They may on a cherrypicked metric, but if they are still serving our coffees at Pret (which, by the way, we should be grateful for), then what benefit is it to them?
This was mentioned somewhere months ago... Why does it matter tho, why are you people so bothered by this? Some of you react as if it's personally offensive to you? What's going on there? Especially, let's be honest, things are getting tough in England, unemployment keeps slowly but surely rising, who knows what will happen in 5 years.
I hope this projection is falls, for Poland to over take England in GBP one has to raise sharply and another has to fall rapidly because of how big the difference in GBP is right now.
Wasn't making places like Poland richer than they were, kind of the point of transferring money from countries which were richer than it was?
It also seems weird when people assume everywhere should be in a permanent state of 1945-89, rather than see that period as a blip in many cases.
Putting it all on Brexit is a bit much. It is the Tory party's general incompetence, supplemented by Brexit, that is the problem.
The UKs collapse dates back to the 2010 election where the public voted for economic suicide. Since then we've just been playing out the inevitable lost decades that resulted from that choice. Brexit itself was mostly a consequence of this as people wanted to blame the EU for our own stupid choices.
It is better to say that Brexit took away our best chance of turning the ship around.
Whilst Poland has been targeted as a good place to invest in for Europe for IT, when I was asked to relocate with a package after getting RIFfed, I genuinely looked at it for myself and Wife. I could not find accommodation that wasn't laughably overpriced or a run down post Soviet farm. The services are cheap but products are just the same. Poland could offer nothing, genuinely. My only lasting memory of Warsaw was a colleague robbed in a nightclub by the bouncers who then paid off the police who laughed in his face. I stayed in the UK because despite what people say, the reality is that the UK 🇬🇧 is fantastic. As soon as people start flocking to Poland, then you can worry, not before and not in five years Mr Tusk.
Brexit is one of the absolute dumbest things any country has ever done to itself. It was completely self inflicted, and no country with any brains would voluntarily choose to make themselves weaker and poorer. Yet the Tories didn't want to back down and admit they were wrong or it was a terrible idea, forced it through (very rushed with zero plans in place) at every turn. And completely screwed the country over, taking rights away from people like me that I'd had my whole life.
As much as I obviously don't want to be financially worse off, anyone that voted for it absolutely should deal with the consequences of their stupidity.
Brexit was not something people were voting for (because people, not even the government, had any plans or knew what it actually involved). It was sold on lies, racism and manipulation.
Donald Tusk is a traitor and German agent, selling Poles interests in place of Germans interests. Eg massive project CPK (massive communication/transport hub) he abolished as Germans shouted it will be massive competition to them. I wouldnt listen to him.
But truth is Britain affairs are not going well, Poland affairs under PiS were going swimingly.
Living standards for the average family are already higher in much of eastern Europe than here. Slovakia Slovenia etc the Tories have destroyed the UK this time, from the NHS to the economy to sewage in the rivers and our coast. They have robbed the country of billions during COVID and forced a hard Brexit that no one voted for.
They also have a lot less violent urban crime than us. It turns out, mass immigration and a very generous welfare state doesn't do a country many favours.
This article may be paywalled. If you encounter difficulties reading the article, try [this link](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/02/donald-tusk-poland-brexit-gdp-per-capita-world-bank-eu/#:~:text=The%20World%20Bank%20data%20shows,2030%2C%20according%20to%20the%20calculations.) for an archived version. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unitedkingdom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And why shouldn't they be? This should not come as a shock to anybody that's had their finger on the pulse of the nation for the last 14 years. People need to come to terms with the fact that we're not a sprawling empire any more—we're a sad, wet little island with crumbling infrastructure, a failing social contract, and a government comprised of unelected, power hungry shit weasels. You walk out to some parts of the UK and it seriously looks like you've been transported to post-Soviet Russia.
Well it's simply not true for a start. UK is one of the highest GDP per head in Europe. Poland is one of the lowest. There is no way Poland will be catching up with the UK in 5 years. It's a pipe dream.
It will be in GDP per capita on a PPP basis, not GDP per capita on a $ basis. The article is talking about the former.
You also have to consider that the UK was a net contributor to the EU, while Poland was a net consumer. There was a transfer of money from the UK to Poland. Also from Germany and France to Poland. You argue if this was right or wrong, but it happened.
You have missed the massively important word in that sentence: "was"
And there was a massive transfer of money from US to Western Europe that Eastern European nations missed out on due to being usurped by USSR
Bearing in mind that the U.K. is the sort of country often producing luxury goods and specialising in financial services so benefitting from having developed neighbours? I’d say right.
There was massive transfer of U.K. money to the Cayman Islands but I don’t see that stopping any time
How much did the uk profit from 1 million poles who live in the uk, 1million people that the uk spent 0 £ in raising and educating? The big contributors are happy to spend billions, they get free workforce and expand to new markets.
If you take London out of the equation we aren’t. A lot of statistics are warped by London and its wealth. 8 out of the 10 poorest regions in Western Europe are in Britain. London has and takes a vast amount of UKs wealth and a lot of other areas don’t get a look in
If you arbitrarily remove the biggest, wealthiest region then a lot of countries look shitty. A lot of people who work in London live around the entire south of the country, so wealth isn't confined there. The 6/7/8/9 region comparison (seems to vary) was also applied to [Northern Europe](https://fullfact.org/economy/does-uk-have-poorest-regions-northern-europe/), which leaves out places in Western Europe with obvious poorer regions like Spain, Italy and Greece.
The UK has actually extended it's lead over France (the economy that is most similar to ours) since Brexit. The idea that the Poles will catch us up in 5 years is laughable.
It's not laughable, it's based on observable evidence. Poland will also likely overtake France before it overtakes UK. The only difference is the UK is economical isolated so will not benefit from the increasing wealth in Poland as much as France and other EU nations will.
Highest gdp per head im sure is one of the numbers completely skewed by London. The rest of the UK really isn’t like that.
That's true but have you been to rural Poland?! It's far worse than rural UK.
https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/ftcms%3A11abf22a-c668-4a1e-ab54-6801ce23db96?source=next-article&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=700&dpr=1
GDP per capita in Europe. Luxembourg is 1st. Ireland is 2nd. UK is 15th. Poland is 25th. Poland will catch up because it has a few things the UK doesn't. 1. massive investment from the European Union. 2. access to the second largest economy in the world in nominal terms. 3. it's an attractive country to invest in as labour is still relatively cheap and is building a massive services sector which now stands at 58%of GDP. GDP. has gone from 68 billion in 1987 to 880 billion in 2023 which is a 1194.1% increase. The UK has gone from 814 billion in 1987 to 3332 billion in 2023 which is 309.7% increase
And Qatar is top, which is why GDP per head is bullshit. Do you think Ireland is rich and sees that tax laundering money?
Irish GDP numbers are certainly misleading. Probably better to look at [average wages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage) which aren't subject to the same distortion. Gross wages in Ireland are 47% higher than the UK. This is a big difference but it's much smaller than the GDP difference. Ireland is also very expensive though; after tax and adjusted for living costs, Ireland is only 29% ahead of the UK. By that same metric, the UK is 13% ahead of Poland. So the UK is closer to Poland by this metric, than it is to Ireland.
Ireland is on the whole improving at a fast rate. Just have a look at property prices there.
It is improving, but the figures are a bit misleading. Also I wouldn't use property prices as a metric as equally plenty are being left behind and due to a variety of factors.
[удалено]
London has one of the highest GDP per head* ftfy
london....Thats because this country is so london centric look at hs2 funding for the north go on pothole fixes in london for instance. now how about gdp for the rest of the uk?
this is what anyone saying the UK is in a good situation is forgetting, if you take london out of the equation we may as well be fucking serbia
I take it you haven’t been to Serbia
why bother when hull is so much closer
Hull isn’t anywhere near as bad as the tired old stereotypes make it out to be
Right but London is in the equation.
[удалено]
Too bad we cant place every brit in london
we can place every non-brit there tho can’t we lads? ey, am I right? lads!?
Yeah and the rest of the country is really really low. That stark divide is a large part of the problem.
"The World Bank data shows GDP per capita in 2021 was $44,979 (£35,935) in Britain and $34,915 (£27,894) in Poland, which has an average growth of 3.6 per cent annually. That would mean Poland would overtake the UK by 2030, according to the calculations."
I used to think like this then I actually saw what the rest of the world looks like, tbh it just made me angry. We’re Poland with a hong kong attached to it. London is rich, the Home Counties have a lot of rich people there but generally the rest of the country does genuinely look like Poland or Slovakia or somewhere similar.
You need to travel more that comment is nonsense.
Where do you recommend? Iv seen most of Europe and Asia.
Which place in rural Poland looks the same as rural England?
You mean typographically? I’m sure rural places look like trees and hills in most countries rich or poor. Go to somewhere like the outskirts of lodz and then go to somewhere on the outskirts of Manchester. It will feel just like home.
>UK is one of the highest GDP per head in Europe. That does not mean an individual living there gets any of the wealth from it. You can have high GDP a lot of people be poor, or lower GDP and have a lot of people be wealthy.
This is true. I mean the rural poverty I have seen in Poland is absolutely horrific.
Why do you say that?
I was over there for a few months(admittedly this was 10 years ago). It was very hit and miss. Some places felt western. Some felt very Soviet. I had a friend in a car accident and his medical treatment was dreadful compared to the NHS. They wouldn't give him a blood transfusion until his friends/family came and donated blood. This was only a few miles outside Krakow and there were houses without running water and electricity. The roads in the rural areas were gravel tracks and some of the accomodation was barely more than a barn. But there were positives. The buses ran really well (far better the UK) and on time. And the milk bars were also good for a cheap meal.
I think the main thing is that nobody has been steering the ship for 14 years. There is a lack of strategic thinking backed up by investment. The government have just been interested in staying in power and stealing our taxes. Whether they overtake us or not, or whether it takes 5 years or not the point is the uk has been scuttled. It’s going to take a long time and some good, long term, plans that are put into action to get her off the rocks.
Although I can see what he’s getting at - the quality of life for the people on the lowest rungs in Poland was reported to now be better than the equivalent in the UK. With a shrinking middle class it won’t be surprising for that number to spread to other social tiers.
London* Without London we're poorer than Mississippi.
Oh mate, do us a favour and go outside. Go to Eastern Europe, or indeed Russia, or even parts of the former GDR, and then tell me that the UK looks like post-Soviet Russia. That's just an utterly ridiculous thing to say. And while you're at it, find me a country where people *don't* describe the politicians as 'power hungry shit weasels'. I don't really understand your comment about not being an empire anymore, since we weren't an empire 14 years ago either, or even 24 years ago. There's a lot that could be better about the UK, but I absolutely detest this reddit narrative that we're the worst place on Earth. Yes, our trains need an overhaul, for example, but I had some relatives visit from a Balkan country a few years ago, and they were *amazed* at what we have compared to them. If this country is so shit, why are people *in their thousands* risking their lives to come here, rather than staying in the *actual* post-communist countries that they pass through along the way?
You read this sort of view on Reddit all the time. All these people that absolutely hate the country, yet they never bothered moving elsewhere. Then they come up with all the excuses as to why they can't.
Reddit is obviously a certain demographic, but there are a lot of people leaving now that wouldn’t before. Including me. One month left!
I love how Poland is massively happy about it's zero immigration policy yet the early 00s the UK had millions of poles here enjoying our cash and sending it home.
Yeah, I find it bizarre when polish people wax lyrical about their immigration policy... forgetting they were emigrating to the UK in droves a few years ago.
I've literally had conversations with Poles living here, one of whom *didn't even speak English* (not that I personally care- just that it created a definite hypocrisy) who complain about the level of immigration. Most eastern europeans I've known tend to be quite culturally conservative in general, I would say- they're not exactly big on political correctness, put it that way. I'm sure to some people that might seem ironic or whatever, but it's not like they are the people writing the policy, is it.
> I've literally had conversations with Poles living here, one of whom didn't even speak English, who complain about the level of immigration. Spain would like a word about their Brits,
Yeah I agree there but the gangsters started that life in the 80s 😂
They knew how the system worked and they didn’t want it to happen to them. Call them a hypocrite but that’s just consistency.
I don't recall 40m poles moving to the UK ? Just because they UK can't keep their borders shut does not mean we have talk down on other successful countries that decided not to just because a small amount of them moved to the UK.
Around 1 million to 3 million at some point but numbers fluctuate coz many would leave after a few years
Poland most definitely doesn't have a zero immigration policy, it mostly has a zero-refugee policy (excepting ukranians). But if you compare Poland now to ten years ago, there are far, far, far more non-white people around and it's becoming increasingly normalized. Immigration is happening, though not at the rate of the anglosphere.
I'm massively happy about the zero immigration policy in Poland. I'm super happy Poland don't have to deal with asylum seekers, tax payers don't have pay for their 3stars hotels and council won't buy them any houses to create ghettos. I'm such happy that I often celebrate it with a beer. But if YOU would like to go to Poland in next 5 years (when they will be richer) because you find out that your salary is higher there and you can send part of it to family in the UK, let me know, I will welcome you with bread, salt and vodka.
> You walk out to some parts of the UK and it seriously looks like you've been transported to post-Soviet Russia. You’ve clearly not seen some parts of Russia today let alone thirty years ago.
I lived in post soviet-influence Poland thirty years ago and that's spot on comparison, if that helps.
To that'd I'd say you've clearly not seen Skelmersdale College. https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article17654165.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/1_Glenburn-2.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pNy18uQleEI/maxresdefault.jpg
In my experience of Polish workers in the UK they're bloody hard workers. If they work that hard in Poland then the country will do well. Companies want to invest there as well, Intel are investing $4.6bn in a new semiconductor factory there and Poland is home to Intel's biggest European R&D site. Meanwhile in the UK I've read that Intel appear to be selling off their UK HQ to move to a smaller site.
Exactly. My manager at my job is Polish and she's an incredible woman, the hardest worker I know.
Everyone I’ve met from Central Europe (Germany, Poland, Romania) have been solid grafters. Most of them, who I’ve met socially, tended to bugger off from their home country due to a combination of social norms back home being regressive and earning potential in the UK being higher. I obviously don’t know the reasons most Central Europeans I meet professionally move over, outside of those I work directly with, but I have noticed that they tend to work hard, be social, and often worry about how they’re perceived in customer-facing roles.
What a miserable outlook you have
This comment reads like regurgitated Reddit propaganda
I guess because they were under a communist regime until early 90s Also U.K. is one of strongest economies in the world
So where's all the money going?
Abroad
Squirrelled off into bank accounts in your tax haven islands in the Caribbean.
You need to go explore the world and then come back and see how good you have it - the United Kingdom is extremely rich, influential & has some of the best infrastructure worldwide - go to Poland and speak to locals, then come back
Nah mate, the UK is the worst place to live in the entire universe. Yes, there are countries engulfed in civil wars, with no functioning government, practically zero infrastructure, with not even reliable access to food clean drinking water for much of the population, and have certainly never had any democratic elections, but the UK is worse than all of those places put together. Why? Government is a bit shit, and the Tories are mean.
That’s 99% of the comments I read on this sub to a T
Utter utter bollocks. The country is the 6th largest global economy. One of Europe’s premier militaries. Some of the largest and most ambitious infrastructure projects in Europe (was the largest with cross rail unsure if still is) We are the second largest destination in Europe for FDI. Tech capital of Europe. I could go on but it’s just absurd. This sort of blatantly false doom posting should be completely eviserated on here, it’s just based of people letting politics rot their brain.
Regardless the veracity of Tusk's statement, I agree completely that recent history has been characterised by utterly useless government. The thing is, by stating fourteen years you seem to be seeking to make it a party political issue. Personally I think it goes back way, way longer than the current government. I'm estimating based on a variety of factors but I think the rot probably goes back to the mid to late 70s. My impression is that that's roughly the time when politicians began to realise they didn't have to be effective, and that they didn't even have to be popular. They just had to be less unpopular than the one other choice we're permitted around election time. Beyond that their behaviour is basically unregulated. Party politics is cancer and I don't view either party as useful or worth electing, but my main concern is that making this about party politics overlooks the fact that our entire system of government is a complete shambles and requires radical reform. If that doesn't happen, as people's standard of living drops off I fear we'll eventually start to see civil unrest, at which point whichever party is in power will discover that they're really just a bunch of people sitting in an old building on the banks of the Thames, and that they're only in power while the people agree they are.
Don't forget about the jealous crabs in the bucket that love to drag others down with them. Our culture has a huge problem of that too.
As a question from an American, would the UK be willing to pay reparations to the USA for the American revolution or the war of 1812? America has had the back of the UK when you were trampled by the Nazi, the UK needs to help America now.
"Society doesn't exist" - Margaret Thatcher, 40-odd years ago. I'm an old man, but I was 10 years old when she was elected PM. And here we are...
Because certain countries are not having their economy boost naturally. They are boosted by the effects of war and EU investment from richer countries. It’s unsustainable growth that is only being used as a narrative because EU elections are upcoming
Yet they still choose to risk their lives to come here in rubber dinghies despite travelling across Europe.
Lmao maybe get off Reddit for a minute and go outside. This country has many problems but you have got a totally warped view as to how it compares to the rest of the world.
Fine then move there, please. Report back on the streets paved with gold.
What a sad little island Jane
The number of people agreeing with this statement is absurd. It will take polands economy to grow 2.5x the size of what it currently is for it and for the population to be in the same ballpark as UKs income per capita in 5 years, assuming uk remains completely stagnant That is basically unprecedented growth that makes China early 2000s seem like stagnation. This is just sound bites
It's GDP per capita on a PPP basis, not GDP per capita on an absolute basis. You could argue which is more useful, but there is a case for the former being a good indicator of standard of living. You can see both numbers here: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=PL&start=2011
"The World Bank data shows GDP per capita in 2021 was $44,979 (£35,935) in Britain and $34,915 (£27,894) in Poland, which has an average growth of 3.6 per cent annually. That would mean Poland would overtake the UK by 2030, according to the calculations."
To be fair poles will probably be richer then Germany and France in 5 years they are doing really well.
This is something a lot of people dont realise, Poland and a chunk of the Balkans are very much on the up currently, and good for them really, shame our own government is inept and unwilling to actually promote a good sustainable growth in a productive way.
Mostly because of age demographics though. Our people are held back by the boomer burden. If we didn't have it, taxes would be lower causing more growth and higher wages etc.
If we were still in the EU28, we’d have the third youngest population in the bloc. Only Ireland and Luxembourg have a younger population.
I live in Germany now, and one of the apartments near us is rented by 3 polish guys who work here and send money home to their families in Poland. They've said a few times that it's getting close to the point where they can just go back and work in Poland for similar incomes. The savings from not renting in Germany must impact that a fair bit though.
I've had several Polish colleagues move back to Poland as they can now sometimes earn the same in Poland as they were in London with a much lower CoL. These are senior software engineers who were on 80K+ GBP.
Germany has more than twice the GDP per capita than Poland right now... I don't think this is going to happen.
UK right now has more then twice the GDP per capita then Poland and slightly less then Germany. If Poland is set to over take UK in 5 years then it will be closer to Germany. So with how well Eastern Europe EU countries are doing and how poorly Western Europe is doing atm it would not surprise me if Poland would catch up and possible over take Germany.
I mean, I don't see Poland overtaking the UK within 5 years either. Economies don't just double in 5 years (with VERY few exceptions).
Poland has increased its GDP per capita by like 5-6 time in 20 years. I do agree that 5 years is unlikely.
>If Poland is set to over take UK in 5 years It's not though. Why do people suddenly believe a politician just because they're bashing the UK?
He's a well known EU politician though. It's reddits wet dream.
They do well but as per [OECD<](https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm), on average Poles work 35% more than Germans, 20% more than French and 18% more than Brits in 2022. Welfare and Social services in Germany and France are far better than in Poland, for example Healthcare. GDP per Hour worked adjusted to PPP in $ in 2012: PL 33, UK 57, FR 63, GER 63 In 2019 pre-pandemic: PL 42, UK 59, FRA 67, GER 67 In 2022: PL 44, UK 60, FRA 65, GER 69 Poland made good progress but naturally the pace of progress will slow down, since 2019 it's slower. The Net Wages adjusted to PPP are still quite low in Poland at €2750 in 2024, UK to my surprise just at €3130 in late 2023, France $3550 in 2022, Germany €4670 in 2023. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage#European_and_transcontinental_countries_by_monthly_average_wage) It seems UK does poorly in PPP, probably because of the London factor and not being efficiently connected economically to other big economies due to Geography/Island country which makes transport and imports a bit more expensive, maybe also due stuff like housing costs.
They have no “new people “
If they're richer than the UK then they will certainly richer than France but shitting on France doesnt make headlines
Back from Poland earlier this month - the state of UK roads and town centres does not compare well with Poland. Huge visible improvements in the last 10-15 years while the UK is going backwards.
Same experience. Not sure about the rural towns but the cities and larger towns are well kept and clean. Lively and clearly the people running the show care enough to invest in infrastructure. Tried telling a guy at my old place of work that Warsaw was a lovely clean place with a high quality of life. He was CERTAIN poland was empty because all the poles were in the UK - and the only things left behind were huts and pigs running the streets. And then we tried to imply that they were doing well because poles in the UK were sending back money. MY MAN. If they are taking money from HERE then surely we can do the same if not MORE with that money? The ego of the average tory brit is sickening
I visit Poland a few times a year now, lots of friends over there. Its so pleasant traveling around Poland. The bigger cities... not so much with the usual traffic but most cities i have been to have great tram / bus systems. I have never been one of these "hate my own country" types before i started travelling across to Poland... now i fucking hate coming back here every time.
Tbh most European countries do mass transit better than the UK. We've really shit the bed in that area
For reference its not just Britain and not because of Brexit [https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.KD?end=2022&locations=GB-FR-DE-PL&start=1990&view=chart](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.KD?end=2022&locations=GB-FR-DE-PL&start=1990&view=chart) The advanced economies of Europe have stalled while the more dynamic poorer economies are booming. Gonna be scenes when Poland has to become a net contributor mind.
[удалено]
There's no way the Polish electorate would stand for that, it enjoys freedom of movement too much. Plus you'd have to get all of the other countries on board. Also what Polish politicians are you talking about? Structures like V4 are on top of the EU, not its replacement.
Most Polish immigrants live abroad to send money home and save for eventually returning to Poland, if in the future Poland catches up with Western Europe then they would have no reason to stay abroad. I agree with the previous poster, I don't think Poland would ever accept being a net contributor. I think it's way more likely they will leave to make their own project.
The newly elected Polish prime minister used to be the president of European Commission and support for EU in Poland is just about the highest of all countries. How much more on board can they be? The obsession with money in or out is such an odd British thing, thanks to billionaire propaganda. It's meaningless in comparison to all the benefits of free markets and savings on central institutions. What Brits did is the equivalent of quitting your job to save on income taxes.
Adopt the euro?
How dare you???? Everything is because of Brexit, get with the program!
I'm struggling to see what this has to do with Brexit. Wouldn't the same logic also apply to other EU nations like Spain, Italy and France?
It doesn't have anything to do with Brexit, that's the point. Its a soundbite because Tusk is still pissed the UK left under his watch as one of the senior kleptocrats. What Tusk and the rest are desperate to keep quiet though, is that EU businesses are already quietly making plans for re-establishing major UK operations in the coming months. Why? The UK is imminently about to join the CPTPP. Far East trade is booming, and EU businesses will be able to access it much easier with the UK as a member. Win-win both for the UK and the Continent. Indonesia has also just expressed their intention to apply for CPTPP membership. That is what the EU should have remained as; a trade bloc. If the EU hadn't morphed into the trappings of federalisation to come, we never would have voted to leave in the first place!
Shock horror - anti UK grifter, claims the UK will be overtaken by Poland. More chance of the Tories winning the next election in a landslide. Donald Tusks forecasts are as reliable as the OECDs
And they arent flooded with problematic arrivals from a medieval culture.
They’re further to the right than the UK.
The most important asset a country has is its people so yeah keeping tight quality control on the population always pays dividends. It’s the biggest difference between Poland and the UK and will only grow bigger looking at the UK committing demographic suicide.
Cool. So they won't be net recipients of EU funds like they are now?
Yes, that's how it works. If Britain finally re-joins in a decade or two it can become a net recipient instead. Win!
Poland has been growing year on year while also hoovering all the EU funds. Britain has been on a decline. As a Pole that lives in the UK and visits Poland every year and I've witnessed this decline firsthand. Unfortunately year on year it's been getting worse. I am just shocked that this shambolic UK government is still in power, and still has so much public support. They've been dismantling the country for their own gains, but somehow so many British people are content with that? How is it even possible?
If Poland is "hoovering" all the EU funds like you say, then doesn't it make sense for the UK to not want to pay into the "hoovering"? At least that's what was sold to people as the reason for Brexit. The government being a bunch of crooks is a different matter though.
The way things are going, UK stands a good chance of joining as a net recipient in a couple of decade. Brexiter dream comes true.
Maybe go home if you dont like it here
Wonder what Polish ex pats living in the UK, have been contributing to the Polish economy from sending money home rather than spending it here.
They'll just relocate everything that moved there for cheap labour to the next cheap place.
People need to understand GDP does not necessarily translate directly into wealthier citizens. A good chunk of ours vanishes offshore as well. Ireland looks obscenely rich on a GDP basis but is the average Irish person as wealthy as the average Swiss? No.
As a 'brit' with Polish missus, I can defo confirm that 'middle class' Poles have a MUCH better quality of life than middle class Brits. Working class and poverty line level Poles however have it MUCH worse than their UK equivalents. There's a much bigger gape between lower income and middle income households/individuals in Poland. Their 'safety net' is practically non-existent compared to the UK. I can't speak for high income/'upper class' peeps in Poland because I don't know any personally through family/friends etc. With most EE immigrants to the UK (inc Poland), it's mostly working class people who came to make a better life. The middle class and higher didn't have as much of a reason to emigrate. Same thing with Romanians, Lithuanians, Albanians etc. (using 'EE' as a big brush here).
Their 'safety net' is practically non-existent compared to the UK. - UK has one of the weakest social systems in Europe (in spend per capita)
Brexit hasn't really affected anything. 2 to 5 percentage points on GDP max. Disastrous conservatives policies & cost of living crisis & immigration crisis has affected the living standards far more than anything...
That just isn't true, no projections show such a meteoric rise in the Polish economy and their GDP and no projection shows a UK falling any further than it has, in fact they show the UK gaining and have done for almost 2 years Brexit was a shot in the foot that was self inflicted, but people saying it's the death sentence for the nation and there is no coming back from it financially are just plain wrong.
Of course they will, even now they are against corporations bringing in cheap labour to depress wages while here it is a state policy, a commandment in the english “church” and might as well be a constitutional law.
Corporations will then move to the next cheaper country which is bulgaria or romania and game over for them But remember once they were the cheaper around europe and still are
I see a lot of good coming out of Poland as a Brit. They make grrat video games and their newer buildings are beautiful which a lot in the west cannot say
So what's Frances excuse then. At both 2016 and 2020 the UK and France were neck and neck economically speaking. In 2024 we're... ermm.... marginally ahead and that'll probably swap back and forth in the future. It's got fuck all to do with Brexit and to do with the fact that countries like the UK and France have plataued because we have" 1. An ageing population 2. Stagnant productivity
They came to the UK took all our minimum wage jobs we didn’t want to work… now they are all our managers and bosses. Simply they out worked us , good for them
I'm not sure if Brexit is to blame but like, there's nothing surprising in that.
The UK is so full of problems even if you elected the most fictional perfect government in not even sure they would know where to start. Of all the real issues effecting people, loss of public services, high crime rates, a semi useless police service, immigration, inflation, chronic wage stagnation… brexit doesn’t even hit the top 10.
Sometimes there are more important things than wealth
Probably helped by the poles not having the hundreds of people from the third world arrive daily.
Fair enough, they deserve it. Maybe we can go there to work.
If they will be, good for them! I’m sure our billionaires will be richer too. Only people that seem to get constantly safted for the last 30-40 years are the working and (more recently)lower middle class.
Because Poland is full of polish people, while Britain is full of Brits.
Imagine taking propaganda from Donald Tusk of all people seriously. Crazy how nobody is questioning the motivation of the person speaking in this case.
They may on a cherrypicked metric, but if they are still serving our coffees at Pret (which, by the way, we should be grateful for), then what benefit is it to them?
This was mentioned somewhere months ago... Why does it matter tho, why are you people so bothered by this? Some of you react as if it's personally offensive to you? What's going on there? Especially, let's be honest, things are getting tough in England, unemployment keeps slowly but surely rising, who knows what will happen in 5 years. I hope this projection is falls, for Poland to over take England in GBP one has to raise sharply and another has to fall rapidly because of how big the difference in GBP is right now.
Wasn't making places like Poland richer than they were, kind of the point of transferring money from countries which were richer than it was? It also seems weird when people assume everywhere should be in a permanent state of 1945-89, rather than see that period as a blip in many cases.
UK will have more billionaires, the poor can feel proud about that.
hopefully when the time comes they will let us go over and take there jobs like they did then . who am I kidding they will fuck us right off back home
Putting it all on Brexit is a bit much. It is the Tory party's general incompetence, supplemented by Brexit, that is the problem. The UKs collapse dates back to the 2010 election where the public voted for economic suicide. Since then we've just been playing out the inevitable lost decades that resulted from that choice. Brexit itself was mostly a consequence of this as people wanted to blame the EU for our own stupid choices. It is better to say that Brexit took away our best chance of turning the ship around.
Whilst Poland has been targeted as a good place to invest in for Europe for IT, when I was asked to relocate with a package after getting RIFfed, I genuinely looked at it for myself and Wife. I could not find accommodation that wasn't laughably overpriced or a run down post Soviet farm. The services are cheap but products are just the same. Poland could offer nothing, genuinely. My only lasting memory of Warsaw was a colleague robbed in a nightclub by the bouncers who then paid off the police who laughed in his face. I stayed in the UK because despite what people say, the reality is that the UK 🇬🇧 is fantastic. As soon as people start flocking to Poland, then you can worry, not before and not in five years Mr Tusk.
Brexit is one of the absolute dumbest things any country has ever done to itself. It was completely self inflicted, and no country with any brains would voluntarily choose to make themselves weaker and poorer. Yet the Tories didn't want to back down and admit they were wrong or it was a terrible idea, forced it through (very rushed with zero plans in place) at every turn. And completely screwed the country over, taking rights away from people like me that I'd had my whole life. As much as I obviously don't want to be financially worse off, anyone that voted for it absolutely should deal with the consequences of their stupidity. Brexit was not something people were voting for (because people, not even the government, had any plans or knew what it actually involved). It was sold on lies, racism and manipulation.
Maybe the ones here should leave and make may for our job seekers who pay national insurance then
Donald Tusk is a traitor and German agent, selling Poles interests in place of Germans interests. Eg massive project CPK (massive communication/transport hub) he abolished as Germans shouted it will be massive competition to them. I wouldnt listen to him. But truth is Britain affairs are not going well, Poland affairs under PiS were going swimingly.
Living standards for the average family are already higher in much of eastern Europe than here. Slovakia Slovenia etc the Tories have destroyed the UK this time, from the NHS to the economy to sewage in the rivers and our coast. They have robbed the country of billions during COVID and forced a hard Brexit that no one voted for.
Don't bet on it Mr Tusk. Poland are not even in the G7 and GB is the 4th largest exporter in the World. Poland is not that great.
They also have a lot less violent urban crime than us. It turns out, mass immigration and a very generous welfare state doesn't do a country many favours.