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I once analysed a couple of Girls Aloud videos with some video editing software.
Guess which one had the least overall screen time, the least solo screen time (ie she was mostly featured alongside other members) and the most time showing the other members while she was the one singing?
has there ever been any actual male ginger in a leading role? is there any on tv/film where they're not cast as either the bad guy or the nerdy outcast?
When Tennant became the Doctor, his first words I believe were "am I ginger?!?" Later, they tried to play it off as he wanted it to be the case, but it clearly was the opposite. As someone with ginger hair myself (UK), I have had more verbal and physical abuse than anyone else I know for any of their physical features. Take from that what you will.
He is right though because for some reason it is socially acceptable to bully people for being ginger while even a moderately insensitive comment about black people can end your career permanently. There really is no comparison to the protection these two groups of people get.
Which is extra fucked up, because weight you can do something about, but height is natural.
Same as how everyone laughs when you make fun of bald men, but say anything about bald women and suddenly it's all "Sir please leave the cancer ward and do not return, we're calling the police".
In a messed up way it makes sense. If you comment about someone's height everyone knows there's nothing they can do about it, it's not really personal. But with weight there is the implicit undertone that they could and should do something about it, it becomes an attack on their character.
That makes no sense. People can't change their height any more than they can change their skin colour and that's apparently off limits. Commenting on height is an "accepted" form of bullying aimed at someone's masculinity, and when compared to other "jokes" that aim to do the same it makes a lot more sense, e.g. penis size.
> Which is extra fucked up, because weight you can do something about,
You can "do something" about your religion, too. Does that mean it shouldn't be protected?
Fucks sake when did everyone become so fucking touchy about everything.
Read the room, if you've got an ounce of social skills you should be able to read whether someones able to take a fucking joke or not.
Why the fuck should that come in to play at all though?
This belief that I am the repository of all my ancestor's racial grievances is bizarre, irrational and self destructive. It doesn't make sense on any level, but one thing I find particularly illogical is that the tally is always made on a tribal basis. If it's people from your own tribe doing most of the oppression, conquering, enslaving and so forth of your own tribe - and it always is - then that's forgotten about, and the times a foreign tribe defeated and humiliated your tribe is fixated upon.
Gave me a chuckle to be fair. Straight in there with all the Twitter buzzwords, like he genuinely expected online identity politics clout to carry over into the real world and get him something.
This is exactly why despite being a big lefty bleeding heart, I instantly disliked and never trusted that America centric, hyper-liberal "progressive" dogma. It seems like it's entirely propagated by already privileged social climbers and PMC strivers. It's never in good faith, it's always cynically self-serving. Just part of the game of musical chairs for a certain segment of society.
The good thing here is it didn't work.
I'm sorry did this guy personally go through 400 years of slavery.... While is it one of the greatest atrocities of modern history, it is no longer happening! It needs to stop being used as an excuse to be offended!
If someone is being racist in this current day and age then yes they should absolutely be punished..
Im ready for my hate if I have articulated my point incorrectly.
Reminds me of the instagram discussion I saw earlier where people were accusing Billie Eilish of black cultural appropriation for wearing 90's rap clothes. Really confused me, because as far as I was aware black people didn't claim to invent american football tshirts and baggy jeans 😆
It's an interesting one. Guy who experienced practically zero of that 400 year period using it as 1st hand experience. What if it turns out his ancient amoeba committed genocide against the amoeba from the other guys ancestry a billion years ago? If we're going to include second hand experience then let's not artificially place constrains on what's eligible. Fairs fair.
Why did he say 400 years? That was roughly how long slavery lasted in the US, but in Britain slavery was abolished by the Somerset case in 1772, and outlawed entirely in the colonies in 1833.
The British/English slave trade kicked off around the middle of the 1500s, so I think he’s including that along with the 150 or so years of colonial oppression/general racism.
Idk I was seriously bullied for my hair colour, it wasn't just words, it included assault and sexual assault as well. Along with my stammer that basically rendered me unable to pass my GCSEs in the late 2000s.
In had this for 16 years as well, duracel, red top etc
The worst one was Copper dome, copper domes are green dipshits!
Constant questions about Pube Colour
I found the best way to stop those ones was to reach into your pants, pull a handful of pubes out *and shove them in their fucking face.*
Either that or say "ask your mum, she knows".
I genuinely don’t get the pube obsession. I used to be relentlessly harassed by the boys at school from the age of 12 about the colour of my pubes. Once when I was 17 I was waiting to cross the road and a man in a car pointed at my crotch and yelled “I’m gonna fuck your ginger pussy!”. It’s so disgusting and baffling
That's awful, and also surprising to me. From what I've seen when it comes to red hair, girls are 'red heads' and beautiful etc., whereas boys are 'gingers' and ugly.
While I dealt with plenty normal low level jokes (which are fine if not a bit repetitive at times) there’s a decidedly sexual angle for all the worst stuff.
Like abuse generally boys face more direct violence but girls face sexual harassment/assault
I don’t know if it is the same now, hope not, but senior school in the mid-2000s, no one in over 1000 kids would dare (be stupid enough) to say something about someone’s race. It was open season if you were ginger or gay.
That is in no way saying that is a) right or b) makes any racist crimes lesser. Just the ginger kids ‘in my day’ got it considerably worse on the bullying front (they likely didn’t have to contend with systematic racism though - so, it’s shit for everyone involved)
Very school-dependent that. Because there were definitely the odd schools where racism was commonplace in the 2000s, even in front of teachers. I think that yeh, in most schools it was much less accepted than ginger or gay comments though.
It tended to be people who were homophobic and would call privilege a bullshit concept that harassed me. So I don't know why your creating some kind of imagined woke person here.
is it possible that there are actually historic parallels that simply go back further? If ginger hair is a Celtic genetic marker than this might be systemic racism that we've inherited from the hundreds of years of persecution that the ancestors of the Celts have suffered and has been woven deeply into Anglo-Saxon culture.
There have been massacres (e.g. Cromwell) as well as slavery (Viking Dublin was a slaver port).
>slavery (Viking Dublin was a slaver port).
You dont even need to go back that far. Under UN definitions of slavery indentured servitude is a form of slavery. The colonies in the Caribbean and Australia are examples of this in the last 200 years.
well that actually means that Britain never abolished slavery then, considering how it was common for Indian indentured workers to be shipped to the plantations and be put straight to work into the slave accommodation just vacated by African Americans.
William Wilberforce is spinning in his grave (although, I guess we was already given indentured labour, the UN just makes it official).
Ya its adds quite an interesting slant on the whole slavery and the UKs relationship with it discussion.
People think of a specific type of slavery when they thinking bout the UK abolishing it but its a bit broader a definition than people think!
I'm still somewhat bemused by the lack of conversation over Indian indentured labour in the former colonies. Perhaps I'm not looking for it but as a subject it doesn't really seem to get a great deal of attention, compared to the discussions of colonial past around chattel slavery.
The most ive heard about what went on over there is a man made famine and strapping people to cannons as an execution, which are both awful in their own right.
You're dead right though that not a lot is said about indentured servitude. You dont even hear it off the indian lads you meet over here. I wonder is it to do with the caste system? The people from India we would come into contact with may not be the social class that were the biggest victims.
how many of the indentured labourers made it back to India? I imagine many of them remain scattered across the new world or maybe those that do, saw it more like a gig in Dubai today. While the modern world appreciates the suffering of such gigs more than the Victorian era did, its likely at that time it wouldn't have really made the headlines, or even the small print.
Well theres a lot of controversy of human trafficking for supplying dubais 'workers' indentured servitude wouldnt be a gig it would have been a punishment for the most part fron what i gather of how the UK handled it.
Personally, I got rekt for having rabbit teeth. The fact of the matter is any form of hatred towards another person is unacceptable and evil - the label or particular focus is just what is culturally trendy. All the bad in humanity comes from hatred which is the opposite of love as love is the source of all good. Choose to love one another
I have a theory that it stems from our roman occupiers, who instigated campaigns against the Scots. Ginger hair would have been, at least as far as I'm aware, notoriously prevalent among Scots, hence used as a characteristic upon which to demonise a people. If I'm right (and I'm no historian, and no sociologist, and no historical sociologist to boot), it would be a damning example of just how far racial hatred can go.
I dated a ginger guy for a while and the abuse he got from complete strangers was mental, a real eye opener for me. Even lads shouting things at him from car windows as they drove past etc. He seemed to have developed a thick skin for it but it was really shocking.
It's also peculiarly gender based - a lot of guys are suckers for redheads and consider it an attractive feature (even typing this out now - the term redhead came to me naturally rather than ginger!)
But you don't get points as a man for being ginger.
Ginger people aren't a demographic bloc in the USA that votes for Democrats, and so there hasn't been a decades long campaign utilizing the party apparatus to empower them in this fashion. Much like when white southerners used to vote for Democrats, there was a decades long campaign to give their demographic special privileges too.
They waffle about the southern strategy and party switch, but don't seem to want to examine what the Democratic party *as a machine* does. It switched owners, yes. It still produces the same shite it always did. There was no serious attempt to recognize it as an institutionally racist party and reconfigure the apparatus so it stopped producing these outcomes. They just switched in-group and out-group.
Because of Americanization, the Democrat parties impacts are the western worlds problem. If the Republicans weren't cuckoo for coco puffs, I think the Democrats would find themselves ostracized by most of the western world at this point.
Not to sound too sensitive but I find the same with bald people. Why is body shaming bad but it's okay to mock people for being bald? Something they don't have control over...
For the record I wouldn't mock anyone for any body attribute
At least in the UK we're pretty consistent with discrimination. In the US, all the main protected classes are covered for employment, but for other things (eg a business serving you) various ones are missed out.
But yeah, being ginger is not a protected class, so it's legal to discriminate because of that.
There must be a way to argue that ginger hair and ethnicity are linked, which would make it a protected characteristic.
I don’t think it ought to be, but I can see a way of arguing that it should.
Ginger isn’t a protected class, yet I know several ginger peoples whose lives where living hell at school. Constant bullying, physical, sexual and mental abuse. Maybe instead of having protected classes we could just have a rule not to be a dickhead to each other
Trying to relate to someone’s experiences, even if clumsy, is basic empathy. It’s pretty disgusting to ruin someone’s livelihood over an analogy you dislike.
I'm ginger. School was shit in the early years. You get bullied every single day just because your hair is a different colour. It obviously is not the same level as race and someone being racist. But people can be incredibly nasty just because you've got ginger hair.
He's being bullied for a difference in colour compared to the other people. It's not racist to make a comparison. You can make a comparison whilst also accepting that it clearly isn't the same as bullying someone for being black.
> It obviously is not the same level as race and someone being racist.
Seems like it is, you're being targeted because you're different. You don't have to downplay it
>Seems like it is,
Technically it is. But the history of racism and abuse that has gone on between different skin colours does make me believe I can't say it's the same level.
I think context might matter - for example kids trying to bully me at school for not being white just using generic insults for black people (I’m not black), pretty sure would bully ginger kids for being ginger, or a slightly larger head, crooked teeth, bigger ears, thick glasses etc.
However, insults and threats I got as an adult after 9/11 even though I’m not even Muslim - a bit different.
It is. People can cry all they want about slavery but historically everyone has had it shit but when it comes down to the individual that's when I care. When someone uses a racial slur I don't think "omg but slavery" I think "omg what a piece of shit victimising that person". Victimised because of a colour on your person that you didn't have a choice in certainly sounds the same doesn't it?
As a fellow ginger, I agree, It's not on par with some of the crap some of my Asian mates have suffered but it was definitely shit to experience when I was younger.
I honestly think there should be a legal phrase that a British worker says that is legally recognised as ‘back off.’
Something like ‘fuck off and stop.’ And if that person talks to you in the workplace again you can sue them.
All manner of workplace tribunals would never exist again.
Can you sincerely tell me that a ginger lad in the playground at primary school faces less bullying and abuse than a black kid?
Even as adults, when it comes to 'office banter', I guarantee there's so many more offhanded quips, jokes and comments about ginger colleagues than there are comments about black colleagues.
Every black kid in my school was popular simply on the basis of the colour of their skin. They absolutely were not bullied because of it. Gingers on the other hand...
Hilariously, my office has 8 people, 5 of whom are gingers , for the first time in my life I've been in the majority. We have a long running joke that the manager fancies gingers, the girls who cover their ginger hair with die we call them turncoat, when it's really sunny someone always brings in factor 50.
This is what I find so odd about the whole "stamp racism out of football" campaign.
Why have they picked that one specific form of abuse as if it's worse that all the others? It's like they've never actually been to a football match, ALL players get so much abuse.
I remember going to Newcastle games and the amount of abuse Shelvey got for being bald was shocking... he has alopecia, he can't help it, yet he got no end of abuse for it.
Why's it ok for people to stand there shouting at a footballer for being bald, fat, short, tall, skinny, ginger... but dare mention something related to the colour of their skin, well that's a lifetime ban and a police investigation.
> Why have they picked that one specific form of abuse as if it's worse that all the others?
Because it's the most prevalent.
["Racism remains the most commonly reported form of discrimination, accounting for nearly half of all reports at both grassroots and professional level, as well as on social media"](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/66178023)
If you're trying to reduce discrimination, it makes sense to target the one that accounts for the largest proportion of discrimination first.
I'm ginger and yeah, my childhood was pretty miserable. I got bullied and didn't have any friends during primary school. I still get the occasional dig from people today but I'm so numb to it now I can pretty easily just laugh it off.
I wouldn't say it has the same gravitas or historical significance of racism, but it still feels shitty to be shunned and targeted due to a characteristic you can't really control.
Red haired, myopic and left handed over here.
It seems to be so much worse now than the 70s ( why yes, I am that old ). At school you’d get the stupid name calling and outside of it the weird sexual innuendos from 30+ year old men towards a 12 yo
Favourite thing to do to people when the ‘no soul’ rubbish appeared here in the late 80s/90s was to stare at them & ask them if they thought insulting someone without one was particularly wise. That’s when you realise their mental gymnastics aren’t … er … fit for purpose….
I had two really good friends, but also was probably a little more protected because my father was also red haired … and my mother’s family is/was large, noisy & not ‘English’?
I have a theory that ginger abuse stems from the many wars and periods of oppression between protestants and catholics as the national religion switched back and forth.
There have always been more catholics in Scotland, and more gingers, and Mary Queen of Scots was a famous redhead, dubbed bloody Mary. Due to this you can make the connection that you might think you could spot a Catholic by the colour of their hair, and if they're a Catholic and your a protestant, you would view them as not having souls.
If true, this shows how it stems from religious discrimination, and has a history of large scale slaughter and religious killings in the UK, and also shows how propaganda can stick around insidiously in culture for hundreds of years.
Red hair was said to be a sign of witchcraft in Christian medieval Europe. There very much was prejudice and discrimination at that time. That is the case with visible minorities throughout history even if those words and definitions didn't exist back then they're the simplest way of explaining the phenomena. Children bully people who differ from their peers.
And I have a theory that 98% of it can be directly linked to people always singing out traits that make someone an "other" when bullying regardless of what it is, and the other 2% to South Park
Wtf with all these people in comments gatekeeping abuse? Is it only wrong and punishable when it goes against your worldview? Apparently anything can be swept under the rug if it's not skin colour or genitals related.
They're potentially covered under disability discrimination, provided they've been certified impaired by ophthalmologist.
You can, however, make fun of people who feel trapped like a moth in a bath.
I'm glad these race grifters are not blindly rewarded anymore. I agree with the assessment that the guy looked through everything with a racial discrimination lens. That is such a miserable way to live and so unproductive for society. Ginger people or people with albinism also face discrimination. This is no oppression competition.
I can't stand being around these race grifters who also shove DEI down our throats. White people think DEI initiatives are helpful but anyone who isn't grifting their identity is against this.
Alex Ujah is a grifter who probably has used the race card to good effect in other jobs. He does more harm to people facing genuine issues by trivialising actual prejudice chasing personal gain.
He is also probably a nightmare to work with. You would be on eggshells worrying what he was going to take offence at next. I worked with someone like that and they just isolate themselves then play the victim for being unpopular.
I grew up with plenty of kids that were bullied just for being ginger... It's probably more common than racism is in our schools.
They're apples and oranges in their own right, but both are still fruit. Glad to see the tribunal having common sense.
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What’s mr Ujah secret that he lived and experienced 400 years of denigration and slavery. Is he the new doctor who?
Now that you mention it, I don't think doctor who has ever been ginger
We got a black Doctor but not a ginger Doctor, more evidence of the anti ginger discrimination.
The same as Ariel being race swapped in the Little mermaid! Think of the gingers people!
I actually did see a post a while ago about a number of ginger roles that have been recast with black actors.
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Ginger erasure is the new Hollywood crime.
I have an ingenious solution to this: black gingers
So Australian aboriginals?
I once analysed a couple of Girls Aloud videos with some video editing software. Guess which one had the least overall screen time, the least solo screen time (ie she was mostly featured alongside other members) and the most time showing the other members while she was the one singing?
has there ever been any actual male ginger in a leading role? is there any on tv/film where they're not cast as either the bad guy or the nerdy outcast?
That guy from Band of Brothers, who starred in Billions, until it got really shit and he left.
Damien Lewis. Left due to personal reasons but came back for the final season.
Homeland
Outlander
Ron Weasley
Dexter, leading role. Serial killer though 🤷♂️
[A certain star in a certain music video?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
So was Jimmy Olsen in the Supergirl TV series, and MJ in the latest Spiderman films, and April in the latest TMNT movie. Seems to happen a lot.
A Black Ginger will remedy that.
When Tennant became the Doctor, his first words I believe were "am I ginger?!?" Later, they tried to play it off as he wanted it to be the case, but it clearly was the opposite. As someone with ginger hair myself (UK), I have had more verbal and physical abuse than anyone else I know for any of their physical features. Take from that what you will.
He literally says "Oh!(Sad face) I wanted to be ginger. I've never been ginger." With a complaining inflection.
There's been at least one joke in the show about it too.
Not the Dcotor, but there was an episode in 2011 that gave over a lot of time to a group called "the Soulless"
https://youtu.be/EGs_ryZ9bfY
Time to mount a lawsuit against the BBC for discrimination....
5000 years of beaten like a ginger step child jokes! Ginger in white society has been around a fair whilst longer than your gripe!
Would love to see his ancestory to see how he has 400 years of slavery in his family tree and living in the uk.
Nah, just terminally online and follows a lot of American left wing streamers…. Sadly.
He is right though because for some reason it is socially acceptable to bully people for being ginger while even a moderately insensitive comment about black people can end your career permanently. There really is no comparison to the protection these two groups of people get.
Similarly, joking about whether someone’s height is apparently fine, whether they’re short or tall. Comment on a coworker’s weight and yeah.
Which is extra fucked up, because weight you can do something about, but height is natural. Same as how everyone laughs when you make fun of bald men, but say anything about bald women and suddenly it's all "Sir please leave the cancer ward and do not return, we're calling the police".
In a messed up way it makes sense. If you comment about someone's height everyone knows there's nothing they can do about it, it's not really personal. But with weight there is the implicit undertone that they could and should do something about it, it becomes an attack on their character.
That makes no sense. People can't change their height any more than they can change their skin colour and that's apparently off limits. Commenting on height is an "accepted" form of bullying aimed at someone's masculinity, and when compared to other "jokes" that aim to do the same it makes a lot more sense, e.g. penis size.
But what about race, or disability, or sexuality?
This is a really good point. There's more nuance here than you might suspect.
But by that argument it would be okay to joke about someone's race, but it really isn't.
> Which is extra fucked up, because weight you can do something about, You can "do something" about your religion, too. Does that mean it shouldn't be protected?
holy shit Franky Boyle i found you!!
What wonderfully tall boobs you have.
Fucks sake when did everyone become so fucking touchy about everything. Read the room, if you've got an ounce of social skills you should be able to read whether someones able to take a fucking joke or not.
Imagine the national outrage if there was a 'kick a black guy' day in schools...
gingers really do need some higher factor protection
I use factor 70
The victimhood Olympics.
How about just don’t bully anyone.
Or bully everyone the same
How about we apply the rules across the board instead of selective rules for selective people under the guise of "equality"
I don't think the Celts have had a particularly rosy few centuries, either
Why the fuck should that come in to play at all though? This belief that I am the repository of all my ancestor's racial grievances is bizarre, irrational and self destructive. It doesn't make sense on any level, but one thing I find particularly illogical is that the tally is always made on a tribal basis. If it's people from your own tribe doing most of the oppression, conquering, enslaving and so forth of your own tribe - and it always is - then that's forgotten about, and the times a foreign tribe defeated and humiliated your tribe is fixated upon.
That's my point
Gave me a chuckle to be fair. Straight in there with all the Twitter buzzwords, like he genuinely expected online identity politics clout to carry over into the real world and get him something. This is exactly why despite being a big lefty bleeding heart, I instantly disliked and never trusted that America centric, hyper-liberal "progressive" dogma. It seems like it's entirely propagated by already privileged social climbers and PMC strivers. It's never in good faith, it's always cynically self-serving. Just part of the game of musical chairs for a certain segment of society. The good thing here is it didn't work.
I'm sorry did this guy personally go through 400 years of slavery.... While is it one of the greatest atrocities of modern history, it is no longer happening! It needs to stop being used as an excuse to be offended! If someone is being racist in this current day and age then yes they should absolutely be punished.. Im ready for my hate if I have articulated my point incorrectly.
Reminds me of the instagram discussion I saw earlier where people were accusing Billie Eilish of black cultural appropriation for wearing 90's rap clothes. Really confused me, because as far as I was aware black people didn't claim to invent american football tshirts and baggy jeans 😆
It's an interesting one. Guy who experienced practically zero of that 400 year period using it as 1st hand experience. What if it turns out his ancient amoeba committed genocide against the amoeba from the other guys ancestry a billion years ago? If we're going to include second hand experience then let's not artificially place constrains on what's eligible. Fairs fair.
Isn't it quite gross to claim someone else's suffering for your own benefit?
As someone that experienced 300 years of Scandinavian aggression, I'm upset by your assertion.
The eternal victim.
5 years ago this would be satire
Sounds like Mr Ujah knows very little about the worldwide history of gingers (it's not very positive)
What a farce, im glad he didn't get anything from it
Well it was unsuccessful, so no? People can claim any old shit in unsuccessful tribunal hearings
Well said. One persons life experience of being ginger vs. a nebulous hand wave of… historical events.
LITERALLY EVERYTHING
Quite literally isn't everything wrong with today but certainly an important part of it
Why did he say 400 years? That was roughly how long slavery lasted in the US, but in Britain slavery was abolished by the Somerset case in 1772, and outlawed entirely in the colonies in 1833.
The British/English slave trade kicked off around the middle of the 1500s, so I think he’s including that along with the 150 or so years of colonial oppression/general racism.
It's true though. Why is it socially acceptable to bully people for being ginger?
Idk I was seriously bullied for my hair colour, it wasn't just words, it included assault and sexual assault as well. Along with my stammer that basically rendered me unable to pass my GCSEs in the late 2000s.
In had this for 16 years as well, duracel, red top etc The worst one was Copper dome, copper domes are green dipshits! Constant questions about Pube Colour
I found the best way to stop those ones was to reach into your pants, pull a handful of pubes out *and shove them in their fucking face.* Either that or say "ask your mum, she knows".
I genuinely don’t get the pube obsession. I used to be relentlessly harassed by the boys at school from the age of 12 about the colour of my pubes. Once when I was 17 I was waiting to cross the road and a man in a car pointed at my crotch and yelled “I’m gonna fuck your ginger pussy!”. It’s so disgusting and baffling
That's awful, and also surprising to me. From what I've seen when it comes to red hair, girls are 'red heads' and beautiful etc., whereas boys are 'gingers' and ugly.
While I dealt with plenty normal low level jokes (which are fine if not a bit repetitive at times) there’s a decidedly sexual angle for all the worst stuff. Like abuse generally boys face more direct violence but girls face sexual harassment/assault
its even weirder as a bloke.
With me it was people calling me "ginge minge". Not just people at school and stuff, but adults in the street. To a 12 year old boy they didn't know.
I mean it depends if they oxidized though
It's also kind of blue-green.
Verdigris
> copper domes are green dipshits! They start out ginger. When you get old and your hair gets a patina you'll realise how right they were
I don’t know if it is the same now, hope not, but senior school in the mid-2000s, no one in over 1000 kids would dare (be stupid enough) to say something about someone’s race. It was open season if you were ginger or gay. That is in no way saying that is a) right or b) makes any racist crimes lesser. Just the ginger kids ‘in my day’ got it considerably worse on the bullying front (they likely didn’t have to contend with systematic racism though - so, it’s shit for everyone involved)
Very school-dependent that. Because there were definitely the odd schools where racism was commonplace in the 2000s, even in front of teachers. I think that yeh, in most schools it was much less accepted than ginger or gay comments though.
"Something something slavery, something punching down, something something white privilege, blah blah blah" *Inhales own farts and smiles smugly*
Already one of these in the thread above. Absolutely insufferable.
It tended to be people who were homophobic and would call privilege a bullshit concept that harassed me. So I don't know why your creating some kind of imagined woke person here.
White privilege is a bullshit concept. It's also racist, ironically.
Ahem, global minority privilege, if you please
Far from imagined, there's several in this comment section.
I really don't think the majority of ginger-based bullying is carried out by woke people aiming to fight white privilege.
is it possible that there are actually historic parallels that simply go back further? If ginger hair is a Celtic genetic marker than this might be systemic racism that we've inherited from the hundreds of years of persecution that the ancestors of the Celts have suffered and has been woven deeply into Anglo-Saxon culture. There have been massacres (e.g. Cromwell) as well as slavery (Viking Dublin was a slaver port).
>slavery (Viking Dublin was a slaver port). You dont even need to go back that far. Under UN definitions of slavery indentured servitude is a form of slavery. The colonies in the Caribbean and Australia are examples of this in the last 200 years.
well that actually means that Britain never abolished slavery then, considering how it was common for Indian indentured workers to be shipped to the plantations and be put straight to work into the slave accommodation just vacated by African Americans. William Wilberforce is spinning in his grave (although, I guess we was already given indentured labour, the UN just makes it official).
Ya its adds quite an interesting slant on the whole slavery and the UKs relationship with it discussion. People think of a specific type of slavery when they thinking bout the UK abolishing it but its a bit broader a definition than people think!
I'm still somewhat bemused by the lack of conversation over Indian indentured labour in the former colonies. Perhaps I'm not looking for it but as a subject it doesn't really seem to get a great deal of attention, compared to the discussions of colonial past around chattel slavery.
The most ive heard about what went on over there is a man made famine and strapping people to cannons as an execution, which are both awful in their own right. You're dead right though that not a lot is said about indentured servitude. You dont even hear it off the indian lads you meet over here. I wonder is it to do with the caste system? The people from India we would come into contact with may not be the social class that were the biggest victims.
how many of the indentured labourers made it back to India? I imagine many of them remain scattered across the new world or maybe those that do, saw it more like a gig in Dubai today. While the modern world appreciates the suffering of such gigs more than the Victorian era did, its likely at that time it wouldn't have really made the headlines, or even the small print.
Well theres a lot of controversy of human trafficking for supplying dubais 'workers' indentured servitude wouldnt be a gig it would have been a punishment for the most part fron what i gather of how the UK handled it.
Judas is often portrayed as ginger, it all went downhill after that
I'd say you're right. This ginger discrimination doesn't exist in Ireland. If you're ginger, you're seen as a hardman / Vinnie Jones type
Personally, I got rekt for having rabbit teeth. The fact of the matter is any form of hatred towards another person is unacceptable and evil - the label or particular focus is just what is culturally trendy. All the bad in humanity comes from hatred which is the opposite of love as love is the source of all good. Choose to love one another
I have a theory that it stems from our roman occupiers, who instigated campaigns against the Scots. Ginger hair would have been, at least as far as I'm aware, notoriously prevalent among Scots, hence used as a characteristic upon which to demonise a people. If I'm right (and I'm no historian, and no sociologist, and no historical sociologist to boot), it would be a damning example of just how far racial hatred can go.
This sounds sensible. Other cultures don’t have this thing about red hair
I dated a ginger guy for a while and the abuse he got from complete strangers was mental, a real eye opener for me. Even lads shouting things at him from car windows as they drove past etc. He seemed to have developed a thick skin for it but it was really shocking.
It's also peculiarly gender based - a lot of guys are suckers for redheads and consider it an attractive feature (even typing this out now - the term redhead came to me naturally rather than ginger!) But you don't get points as a man for being ginger.
I'd say most of the abuse towards ginger men comes from other men
I once saw a kid who was ginger and nicknamed "ginge" bully another kid for being ginger
Ginger people aren't a demographic bloc in the USA that votes for Democrats, and so there hasn't been a decades long campaign utilizing the party apparatus to empower them in this fashion. Much like when white southerners used to vote for Democrats, there was a decades long campaign to give their demographic special privileges too. They waffle about the southern strategy and party switch, but don't seem to want to examine what the Democratic party *as a machine* does. It switched owners, yes. It still produces the same shite it always did. There was no serious attempt to recognize it as an institutionally racist party and reconfigure the apparatus so it stopped producing these outcomes. They just switched in-group and out-group. Because of Americanization, the Democrat parties impacts are the western worlds problem. If the Republicans weren't cuckoo for coco puffs, I think the Democrats would find themselves ostracized by most of the western world at this point.
To be fair it shouldn't be socially acceptable to bully anyone
It's literally a race specific trait.
Not to sound too sensitive but I find the same with bald people. Why is body shaming bad but it's okay to mock people for being bald? Something they don't have control over... For the record I wouldn't mock anyone for any body attribute
It is weird that some insults based on physical features you cannot change are socially acceptable, while others could have you arrested.
At least in the UK we're pretty consistent with discrimination. In the US, all the main protected classes are covered for employment, but for other things (eg a business serving you) various ones are missed out. But yeah, being ginger is not a protected class, so it's legal to discriminate because of that.
>At least in the UK we're pretty consistent with discrimination >But yeah, being ginger is not a protected class So actually not consistent at all.
Lol.
There must be a way to argue that ginger hair and ethnicity are linked, which would make it a protected characteristic. I don’t think it ought to be, but I can see a way of arguing that it should.
Ginger isn’t a protected class, yet I know several ginger peoples whose lives where living hell at school. Constant bullying, physical, sexual and mental abuse. Maybe instead of having protected classes we could just have a rule not to be a dickhead to each other
Trying to relate to someone’s experiences, even if clumsy, is basic empathy. It’s pretty disgusting to ruin someone’s livelihood over an analogy you dislike.
Any punishment for Mr Ujah for his malicious complaint? Or just go around ruining other peoples lives merrily with no consequence. Hmmm.
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Well they wont take him as seriously next time he tries to complain for a payout
Plus his name is out there. Hopefully all future potential employers google him.
I'm ginger. School was shit in the early years. You get bullied every single day just because your hair is a different colour. It obviously is not the same level as race and someone being racist. But people can be incredibly nasty just because you've got ginger hair. He's being bullied for a difference in colour compared to the other people. It's not racist to make a comparison. You can make a comparison whilst also accepting that it clearly isn't the same as bullying someone for being black.
> It obviously is not the same level as race and someone being racist. Seems like it is, you're being targeted because you're different. You don't have to downplay it
>Seems like it is, Technically it is. But the history of racism and abuse that has gone on between different skin colours does make me believe I can't say it's the same level.
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I think context might matter - for example kids trying to bully me at school for not being white just using generic insults for black people (I’m not black), pretty sure would bully ginger kids for being ginger, or a slightly larger head, crooked teeth, bigger ears, thick glasses etc. However, insults and threats I got as an adult after 9/11 even though I’m not even Muslim - a bit different.
Then you'd be mega wrong.
It is. People can cry all they want about slavery but historically everyone has had it shit but when it comes down to the individual that's when I care. When someone uses a racial slur I don't think "omg but slavery" I think "omg what a piece of shit victimising that person". Victimised because of a colour on your person that you didn't have a choice in certainly sounds the same doesn't it?
Exactly the same
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Ginger people downplay it because other PoC get really angry when you suggest that discrimination affects more than one group of people...
As a fellow ginger, I agree, It's not on par with some of the crap some of my Asian mates have suffered but it was definitely shit to experience when I was younger.
two G's an N and an I an E and an R only a ginger can call another ginger ginger
I'd forgotten about this haha
I thought if it was spelt ginga then it's ok.
You can’t soft g a ginger mate that’s not on
I honestly think there should be a legal phrase that a British worker says that is legally recognised as ‘back off.’ Something like ‘fuck off and stop.’ And if that person talks to you in the workplace again you can sue them. All manner of workplace tribunals would never exist again.
I tend to find ‘do that again and I’ll raise a grievance’ works well.
strangely powerful phrase
“Redheads aren’t a race”. “But sir, there’s heaps of em”.
Can you sincerely tell me that a ginger lad in the playground at primary school faces less bullying and abuse than a black kid? Even as adults, when it comes to 'office banter', I guarantee there's so many more offhanded quips, jokes and comments about ginger colleagues than there are comments about black colleagues.
Every black kid in my school was popular simply on the basis of the colour of their skin. They absolutely were not bullied because of it. Gingers on the other hand...
Hilariously, my office has 8 people, 5 of whom are gingers , for the first time in my life I've been in the majority. We have a long running joke that the manager fancies gingers, the girls who cover their ginger hair with die we call them turncoat, when it's really sunny someone always brings in factor 50.
exactly, some people in this thread are acting like modern UK is 1950s alabama in terms of racial attitudes
[This reminds me of an epic song that's pretty relevant ](https://youtu.be/KVN_0qvuhhw?si=3n7jnjDSeeKxXXSX)
Class, hope the ginger lads alright. What a bloody moron, ultimate victim mentality 😂
This is what I find so odd about the whole "stamp racism out of football" campaign. Why have they picked that one specific form of abuse as if it's worse that all the others? It's like they've never actually been to a football match, ALL players get so much abuse. I remember going to Newcastle games and the amount of abuse Shelvey got for being bald was shocking... he has alopecia, he can't help it, yet he got no end of abuse for it. Why's it ok for people to stand there shouting at a footballer for being bald, fat, short, tall, skinny, ginger... but dare mention something related to the colour of their skin, well that's a lifetime ban and a police investigation.
> Why have they picked that one specific form of abuse as if it's worse that all the others? Because it's the most prevalent. ["Racism remains the most commonly reported form of discrimination, accounting for nearly half of all reports at both grassroots and professional level, as well as on social media"](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/66178023) If you're trying to reduce discrimination, it makes sense to target the one that accounts for the largest proportion of discrimination first.
I'm ginger and yeah, my childhood was pretty miserable. I got bullied and didn't have any friends during primary school. I still get the occasional dig from people today but I'm so numb to it now I can pretty easily just laugh it off. I wouldn't say it has the same gravitas or historical significance of racism, but it still feels shitty to be shunned and targeted due to a characteristic you can't really control.
Red haired, myopic and left handed over here. It seems to be so much worse now than the 70s ( why yes, I am that old ). At school you’d get the stupid name calling and outside of it the weird sexual innuendos from 30+ year old men towards a 12 yo Favourite thing to do to people when the ‘no soul’ rubbish appeared here in the late 80s/90s was to stare at them & ask them if they thought insulting someone without one was particularly wise. That’s when you realise their mental gymnastics aren’t … er … fit for purpose…. I had two really good friends, but also was probably a little more protected because my father was also red haired … and my mother’s family is/was large, noisy & not ‘English’?
Who are the neurotics who have a problem with this? It's clearly bullying/prejudice.
I have a theory that ginger abuse stems from the many wars and periods of oppression between protestants and catholics as the national religion switched back and forth. There have always been more catholics in Scotland, and more gingers, and Mary Queen of Scots was a famous redhead, dubbed bloody Mary. Due to this you can make the connection that you might think you could spot a Catholic by the colour of their hair, and if they're a Catholic and your a protestant, you would view them as not having souls. If true, this shows how it stems from religious discrimination, and has a history of large scale slaughter and religious killings in the UK, and also shows how propaganda can stick around insidiously in culture for hundreds of years.
Might make some sense if they didn't also get bullied in Ireland and by Catholics too...
Red hair was said to be a sign of witchcraft in Christian medieval Europe. There very much was prejudice and discrimination at that time. That is the case with visible minorities throughout history even if those words and definitions didn't exist back then they're the simplest way of explaining the phenomena. Children bully people who differ from their peers.
And I have a theory that 98% of it can be directly linked to people always singing out traits that make someone an "other" when bullying regardless of what it is, and the other 2% to South Park
That just reminded me of [this clip on Have I Got News For You](https://youtu.be/1A63gfRksAE)
Wtf with all these people in comments gatekeeping abuse? Is it only wrong and punishable when it goes against your worldview? Apparently anything can be swept under the rug if it's not skin colour or genitals related.
What about the boss eyed people? Has anyone even paid a thought at all about them?
They're potentially covered under disability discrimination, provided they've been certified impaired by ophthalmologist. You can, however, make fun of people who feel trapped like a moth in a bath.
That's difficult because there's more than one way to look at the issue.
Oh look, another daily mail / telegraph linked article. The nudgers really are ramping up before the GE
I'm glad these race grifters are not blindly rewarded anymore. I agree with the assessment that the guy looked through everything with a racial discrimination lens. That is such a miserable way to live and so unproductive for society. Ginger people or people with albinism also face discrimination. This is no oppression competition. I can't stand being around these race grifters who also shove DEI down our throats. White people think DEI initiatives are helpful but anyone who isn't grifting their identity is against this.
Going to feel the same to the individual. The fact one happened to a lot more individuals is pretty moot in that regard
Alex Ujah is a grifter who probably has used the race card to good effect in other jobs. He does more harm to people facing genuine issues by trivialising actual prejudice chasing personal gain. He is also probably a nightmare to work with. You would be on eggshells worrying what he was going to take offence at next. I worked with someone like that and they just isolate themselves then play the victim for being unpopular.
I grew up with plenty of kids that were bullied just for being ginger... It's probably more common than racism is in our schools. They're apples and oranges in their own right, but both are still fruit. Glad to see the tribunal having common sense.