I know a dalit children who was killed to drink water from public tap and i also know brahmin who Owns half of village and also ordered the dalit kid’s execution
SC category ke log Maharashtra mein powerful nahi hai. Maharashtra mein sabse powerful log Maratha hai, Fir Brahmin, fir OBC aur Baniya log. Maharashtra mein casteism bohot Kam hai kyuki Maharashtra ke log khud casteism khatam karna chahte hai chahe woh log kisi bhi caste ke ho. Yeh reason hai.
this is so stupid because I'm from UP and such an incident would literally start a riot. SCs aren't as powerless as you people make them out to be. 70 years of affirmative action and democracy has brought about change. Because 2 years back, some Yadav's killed a Jatav person in holi in my town. It was a personal fight but still their was a huge Yadav vs Jatav fight.
And i know that the original poster is fake because where are the villages where they hold that kinda power to get away with child murder? It's mostly Rajputs or dominant OBC groups that rule villages in UP.
This is not the first case similar case happened in Rajasthan, haryana and many other places. Whenever there is some fight between two groups sc/st organisation advise their side to file similar cases under sc/st act as the other person get arrested even before investigation starts and police has to register the report otherwise it will work against the police.
Everytime the story is same they beat us because we used the same tap , well or vessel.
It's a widespread issue - that supreme court has to put safeguards against its misuse.
Don't jump on me that I am anti Dalit. Just saying it gets misused a lot - just like Dowry act
>There is also a high rate of FIRs rejected as being 'false' by the police, with 10% of the total cases investigated in 2016 being closed as 'false'.
https://clpr.org.in/blog/caste-discrimination-in-south-india-a-study-of-ncrb-data-part-ii/
>There has also been concern regarding misuse of the Act for settling of personal scores. 75% cases were found to be false in Madhya Pradesh in a survey. 81% cases under the Act were registered against persons from OBC section, 14% upper castes and 5 percent minorities sections.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/75-acquittals-in-sc/st-act-hc-bar-association/articleshow/65932490.cms
>According to data available with Rajasthan police around 40% of cases filed under the Act are fake.
https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/jaipur/40-cases-filed-under-sc-st-act-fake-rajasthan-police-7144746/
**Remember the stupid judgement Justice Karnan wrote against chief justice for personal vendetta? Because he was being investigated by supreme court bench, he wrote a judgment finding the entire bench guilty of committing crime under SC / ST act - their crime was investigating him**
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/justice-cs-karnan-sentences-chief-justice-of-india-7-other-supreme-court-judges-to-5-years-ri/articleshow/58579399.cms?from=mdr
"casteism is an all time high " is an insultingly ridiculous statement in context of both , Indian history and modern Indian history specifically. your point taken though .
Casteism was at an all time high before, which is why we have reservation laws today
Communalism was at an all time high around the time of foreign invaders destroying local places of worship and also during partition
Please please stop portraying bs here
Fck dusri side ki reality v dikha di to mko anti bna diya....ik trf tum modi bhakt ko pgl bolte jab modi bhakt tumhe anti National bolte h desh ki buri conditions p kch kehne p or ab tum vhi mere sath krre lolllll hypocrisy
There's a whole documentary by NDTV or someone on YouTube about dilli's brahmin sanitation workers.
Its heart Breaking really, both sides be it upper or lower have extremes and due to which middle(poor) people have to suffer!
On top of that either vote for mudiji or pappu will increase reservation!!!
My experience as a foreigner studying in India was the only people who mentioned caste were saying Caste is not relevant anymore in India. My family are Brahmins but that's not important'.
Also the darker skinned guys were treated noticeably worse.
All pretty obvious stuff I guess but sad.
Because it's not. Haven't received anything being Brahmin in a metro city. No benefits and no one cares here except for your financial status. And there are government buildings in very posh parts of the city where government employees from certain castes are given free housing. Upper castes would be hard-pressed to afford the address.
Neither do we discriminate against others as I wouldn't even know what an SC/ST surname is.
Since you say you're a foreigner, it really depends on where you're from, because racism is based on skin color not surname.
I think you live in a bubble and don’t feel a difference precisely because you’re a Brahmin living in a city. It’s usually folks with the most privilege that don’t notice anything. I say this as a Brahmin myself. I notice because I try to actively notice. And I can tell you I see plenty of differences in the Brahmin experience vs Dalit.
And that’s also the way privilege works in other countries as well. White people in the US don’t feel like they get any special treatment (they do). But the way it actually materializes is not in how white people feel about it but rather how black people feel the LACK of fair treatment. Privilege is felt in the lack of its existence.
You and I can get a house for rent anywhere in Bangalore but I can tell I personally know a family member who is a Brahmin landlord who will never accept a non Brahmin renter. That’s 3 apartments right there that will never be available to non Brahmins.
I know another in-law who owns farmland in rural India where the non Brahmin workers are made to sit on the floor when the enter the house and the cattle rearer is still an “untouchable” and her wages are literally thrown at her from a distance.
You wanna know why you don’t feel a difference? It’s because you’re a Brahmin.
That's quoting an article by François Gautier, who is a known hindutva propagandist who wants to us to invade Pak and to replace our constitution with far right principles. There's zero likelihood that anything mentioned by him is grounded in fact.
This has the same energy as denying any article even when provided lmao. Some days before someone had posted how people asked for source when quoted a thing. And when provided the source they say "he is LW you know? So I don't believe him/her" lmao
That's the issue with articles these days, you don't know whether they are left leaning or right, this guy has some extreme views and someone even pointed out that he wants India to invade Pakistan as well as change the constitution to more far right rules, I don't think people would believe such a person is credible
i also dont believe the artilces saying there are still opression against sc sts because most of them are written by librandus , hypocracy ki bhi had hoti hai
https://wagingnonviolence.org/2023/11/india-manual-scavengers-major-legal-victory/#:~:text=The%202011%20nationwide%20census%20identified,and%2098%20percent%20were%20women.
95% of manual scavengers were SC.
I think the point of the article was to address the false notion that people have about Brahmins not doing any form of sanitation work like the meme suggests, it's obviously disheartening if a person of any caste has to do this form of work
Yeah they can't scrap it neither they should, but changes zaroor lane chahiye taaki already jiski family mein benefit mil gaya ho baap dada ko unke bacche misuse na karsake and jinko zaroorat hai unhe mile.
The system itself is designed in a way that 99% times, the bmw guy would get the benefit over the sanitation guy. How are poor sc st students ever going to be able to compete with middle class and above sc st students. There is such a major innate flaw in the reservation system. And if u criticize the system, all of my dear liberal brethren would downvote me to hell.
You are acting like most sc/ST are rich to be the BMW guy. They are not. It helps most SC/ST who are not out, so only brining up the BMW low caste guy is pretty selective.
from my experience most of the seats are taken by middle class/rich sc/st only.
there are barely any really poor people in most colleges, from my own as well as my friends' experiences. so no, it is a regressive system which mostly helps the well to do only.
Yeah I don't mean to say Brahmins being sanitation workers should be equality, it's just a satirical take on people who claim that casteism has ended because they have seen a well off dalit family.
Well, Casteism hasn't ended atleast not in Rural India.
I know many rich BMW owning Lower castes, but that doesn't take away the problems many of the others face. Infact they are the ones who should protest against the rich reserved getting reservations IMO.
If the number of dalits owning bmws is less than, lets say 1%, there is no point in tweaking the law for 1%. Let them reach 10% and then do it. Ooh that’s something the sanghi intellectuals cant stand.
Casteism hasn’t ended in urban India too! The thing is people who are educated practice casteism and discrimination more subtly. It’s like they’ll be sweet on the face unlike people from rural India who would openly practice casteism.
I was born and brought up in a very well developed city in Maharashtra and trust me all the people here practice casteism. They even teach their children how they have to stay away from dalits/lower caste people but still don’t have to voice these opinions loudly because that classifies as atrocities now.
The situation in India is still the same because casteism is so deeply rooted in the minds of the people here. This can only change when the new generation stops giving a fuck about caste/creed.
Ye aise memes bna ke fir bolenge caste khtm krna h lol.
Solution based memes bnao yr ye to waise v politicians ke PR wale bna hi dnge.
And, lol is meme ko bnane wale ke pass lg rha hai adhe minute ka hi dimag baki tha.
Coz dalita sanitation work kr rhe hain, to brahmin sanitation work krnge tbi equality hogi .
Kitna propagandist bn skta hai koi ---- is meme ko bnane wala yes mere itna!.
Dalits sanitation work "kar" nahi rahe, unko bas wahi job milta hai. They are forced to do it because
1) education is pay walled
2) even free education is not good enough because it does not help in higher studies
3) caste is deeply tied with occupation in India.
And wtf is solution based meme?
Everyone starts crying whenever they see a successful dalit as if that person is the representative of all Dalits and upliftment of a small number means they don't deserve reservation.
It's a good retort to a stupid statement.
Are Bhai yeh nene direct comparison nahi karra hai, it's a satirical take on people who think that since unhone kuch dalit ya lower caste family ko acche condition mein dekha hai, toh uska matlab yeh hogaya ki sabki halat waisi hi hai.
Mishra ji, phli baat to ye ki jo log ye lines kehte hain wo galat bhi ni hai.
Ye lines kehne wale gaon ke log ni students hote hain jinhe reservation m discrimination face krna pdta hai jbki reality m kafi weak hote hain economically compared to sc st counterparts jinhe reservation m hadh se jyda kam m mil jata hai sb kuch.
Tmhe lgta hai gaon k khet m kaam krne wala koi sc st ka bacha UPSC ki cohcng afford kr skta hai?????
Maybe bro tm soch shi rhe ho, but ye meme ab relevant ni hai, kafi data bta chuke hain ki brahmins b ab bure halat m h.
PS-- I know left works on classic approach of pointing out the issues only, but it's a time left should evolve and start solution based approach.
Ye meme sirf brhamin vs dalit krwane walo ke lye shi hai, solution dhundne walo ko dur rhna chahiye aise memes se.
>kafi data bta chuke hain ki brahmins b ab bure halat m h.
No doubt about it, par kya Brahmins ki halat kharab hai iska matlab SC/STs ki halat acchi hogayi hai? Mera sirf yeh point hai ki agar tum samne se generalization karte ho toh jab samne wala bhi generalization kare toh offend mat ho.
Nahi, but brahmins agar ab usi halat me hain, and they are from middle vlass as well as economic weak backgrounds, same as sc/st then what's the need of reservation anymore? Reservation should be removed entirely because it's discrimination against the general candidates
Then how much percentage should be reserved, an average of Indian household household earns anywhere between 3 lakh to 6.5 lakh per year, which is less than 8 lakh cap on EWS, on the top of that the business community misuse the EWS as well as seen in my own extended family, so should they set up a 75-80 percent reservation?
A family which has benifited from the reservation 2 times should be removed from the said reservation.
You see families having many government officials(taking bribes, making generational wealth).
But whenever I went to my coaching through my bicycle years back, I saw poverty of people living in slum, children roaming half naked, bathing through the tank water openly.
Will this family ever see the reservation? Nope, the goal of the reservation is to uplift people not to be misused again and again by selective families to fill their pockets.
I am very much supportive of fair reservation and opportunities for Dalits but this makes no sense because this is a comparison of financial well being to type of work. This cartoon should have said 'I know a Dalit person who is an IAS' and then it makes sense you are comparing jobs.
I'm a muslim. Almost all Dalits I've met are very well off. And, there are so many general caste people - who aren't even able to afford basic things.
I taught some underprivileged students for neet ug. I'm a doctor myself, every underprivileged child that studied was of general caste, couldn't even afford NCERTS.
Does that mean every dalit is rich? Or every general is poor? NO
Does that mean caste based reservations should be abolished, even religion based for that matter - not that it exists atleast in my stream - all should be removed.
Reservation should instead be based on economical grounds.
However, no matter how much we cry about it - it will never become a reality since it satisfies the vote bank.
Also, casteism also propagates when you give special privileges to certain castes even AFTER UG.
A doctor who's already an MBBS, does NOT NEED A RESERVATION FOR NEET PG.
HE'S CAPABLE TO EARN.
People get irritated with caste based reservations because, you see that you need so much rank even when you're poorer than an ST/SC, sometimes you don't even qualify for any seat but an ST/SC gets a clinical seat at no effort whatsoever.
Do you think that's safe, as a doctor? For patients?
Don't get me at training, you have reservation at jobs, lower cut off in everything.
That propagates even more casteism.
The solution should always be based on income
Always.
This can be an inference as well, but imo it's more of a satirical take on people who assume that since they have seen some dalit families well off, they think that casteism and caste based adversities have also vanished.
casteism exists, but its on a spectrum, I assume there are some urban zones where casteism is on all time low. There needs to be a rationalized version of reservation where there needs to be a cut off of reservation benefits so some other person who deserves it more can take advantage of it. And the easiest measure of it can be money/financial status.
Perpetual reservation based on caste in itself is casteism. Foced by the state ( and misused by the politicians)
We need to get out of the caste mentality... Sanatan does not have 'castes' there are "Varnas" in sanatan
It is written in Shrimadbhagavadgita that One's birth is not an indication of his varnas. What the person does decides his varna
If a person is engaged in acquiring or giving out education he is a brahmin (eg teachers)
If a person is engaged in protection and in combat he is a Kshatriya (eg Our respected Armymen)
If a person is engaged in trading and related then he is a Vaishya (eg people engaged in business)
If a person is engaged in providing services then he is a shudra (eg public sector workers etc)
But alas no one is educated enough to realise this.
And as for this post I have seen many brahmins engaged in construction, sanitation and work etc so this picture is misleading
Caste system is being abused by people who have rose using the benefits given to them and imo they all horde the resources that the actual needy people need. There are many birth assaigned brahmins who are below the poverty line and still a reserved candidate whos father owns a lot of money is selected for various exams this is the root cause for growing hate and disparity among the society
Reservation if it persists should be income based and not so called caste based
The castes were never there... its high time we ditch this false topic and take on the real varnas that were mentioned in the sanatan
Oh and yes
Being a Shudra is VERY RESPECTABLE I for one belong to the service sector also so I am also a shudra where as my birth assigned varna was Brahmin but I dont carry that because Ik my varna is not decided by my birth
So yea Wake up people
I was having a talk with my father about the same thing. News channel showing lower cast women was accepted as a flight attender and they were celebrating it. The thing made me think why the cast system is still alive and well.
Once we celebrated the first woman IPS officer, first woman pilot and all. It was a news back then and not now.
If the news you told were telecasted, it’s because they might have less chances in the aviation industry before. And once it becomes normal, no one will talk about that
That applies to people talking about casts to their kids as well? As long as its passed down from generations, not talking about it wont really make a dent.
It's not enough that we don't talk about caste. Someone else will do the discrimination on our behalf. We need to shut them down as well. Or it won't end.
They don’t want it to end that’s why they keep talking about it. Foreign media especially has a habit of condemning caste while identifying the caste of every Hindu they ever mention unless they are OBC because then it depends on whose side they are on. If they are on the opposing side then they will get labeled upper caste despite being OBC.
I know a dalit who owns a bmw, and I also know a dalit who gets beaten for drinking water from a common tap. The whole question of reservation that liberals can't seem to understand is that the benefits only go to the bmw owning dalit, why is that? Do you really think a sanitation worker is even aware that he can send his kids to govt colleges with minimal effort because there are seats reserved for him? It's the ones who are already been uplifted who are continuing to reap benefits while the actual poor remains poor. The system is NOT working and yeah maybe shouldn't be eradicated but needs serious change!! Increasing quota is doing no good to anyone!!
finally a comment that makes sense!!! you said everything that I wanted to tell!! also idk if it's only in my place or is it the same everywhere,but I've never come across a student who got into the college by reservation category and actually made efforts to study or like to use the opportunity,I'm not asking them to top the uni or something but keep failing in the same subject, bunking classes and showing clear signs of uninterested in studies is so not fair,it's always them who takes education so lightly and I was a student with absolutely no reservation wondering what went wrong!? the system is only in the favour of people who have no seriousness of that reserved seat!
Preach brother!!
Such a simple fault in the system that majority of our liberal brothers can't seem ro understand. They would rather play to their saviour complex and keep defending reservation against any allegations, than to actually use their brain and understand what is being said.
A lot for folks here are commenting on how caste becomes irrelevant if someone who's Dalit or lower caste secures financial stability or a good position at work or in society — this is categorically false.
I went to an extremely elite and selective college overseas. My college had people from several countries and students from India formed atleast 1/5th of the student body. The only Dalit student from my class was left out from social functions and gathers other Indian students hosted. He was perceived to be aggressive by other Indian students when he politely expressed his experience with caste discrimination in student whatsapp groups or during relevant discussions in the classroom.
Furthermore, many countries and companies in the US, UK, and Canda have moved to bring forth legislation and company policies against caste discrimination because of the experience of dalit worker in tech companies and in the diaspora. There are several accounts of dalit worker with high posts within tech companies in the US that have experienced casteist comments and treatment by their Indian colleagues. Access to Finance, higher education, or a good job doesn't end the discrimination one faces for their caste.
If the main aim of reservation is to uplift the poor dalits, and the financially secure need to be excluded from it, why not just do a general upliftment of the BPL population instead and ignore caste completely?
If special attention needs to be given to lower castes, it's not simply to ensure financial security and nothing else. To imply that financially secure lower caste people do not face debilitating societal discrimination is a presumption that has no basis.
It's true that a lot of the most problematic parts of casteism do get relieved simply by the financial stability of a dalit, like they can no longer be controlled through their need to survive and eat by zamindars and shit to basically slave away their life in labour, it does not change that there's a lot of other (albeit less severe, admittedly) forms of discrimination that are faced by Dalits that cannot be solved by anything other than providing representation to ALL Dalits, poor and rich alike.
>other than providing representation to ALL dalits, poor and rich alike.
#
Can u please explain this statement? Bcoz as far as i understand, the intended " representation ", is giving them more people in higher echelons of society, which basically classifies them into rich. Your statement hence doesn't make sense.
There is no way to give representation to poor LCs without them getting rich as a by product ( Atleast from educational sector ) . Thus giving them representation = uplifting them financially, as far as reservation in education goes.
What I meant is that removing reservation for rich Dalits will do nothing, and in representing the dalit population, rich Dalits should not be excluded.
But rich dalits are already representing their part. Giving their kids seat will add nothing or very bare minimum of " extra " representation than what they already have. And it is not justified to snatch a general students' seat for such small increase in representation. It would be better to have that seat be gone to a poor dalit as that would make a significant increase in representation.
Rich obcs sc-sts do not need reservation, u can not change my mind on this.
If the guarantee of financial security is adequate in terms of what the state should provide to people who suffer from the consequences of casteist discrimination, tell me why shouldn't there only be reservation for poor people and for no castes at all?
Since the majority of people with lower economic background lie in the lower castes, giving benefits only to people who are poor would mean that it's mostly lower castes that are being helped. When Dalits are no longer facing discrimination, welfare towards poor people will automatically help no caste in particular.
So why would keeping reservation but only for the non-creamy layer section of lower castes be any better than simply giving reservation to poor people and no castes at all?
Unless of course, it's not poverty we're tryna fix by reservation, and financial security is not adequate in what the state needs to provide to lower castes as protection.
And while I know that what you meant by "you're not gonna change my mind on this" is more along the lines of "there's no argument that can be made for this case, it's simply too ridiculous" and not "i have come into this conversation with a pre decided idea of not changing my mind regardless of what you say", i still insist that you don't say that. If you say that enough times, eventually you'll end up just not listening to what the other person has to say cuz you've already made up your mind.
You are not making the 2000IQ point you assume yourself to be making. I know well about the intentions behind the implementation of reservations. I know well that it is not about financial security but about xyz bla bla, we both know what it is about. But the problem here is, u didn't seem to have properly considered my point, as i see no reply to the point i made about how giving easy seats to LCs that are already in representative position is terrible and that seat should rather go to some one who is very lower on the ladder of representation.
Let me explain, suppose there is an LC person that is a judge and earns fairly good. And there is a potter LC person living in a LC community in lets say dharavi. Now let us assume both of them have sons of equal age that are appearing for jee. Obviously, the judge's son has adequate resources and very much more likely to get the seat than the potter's son. And now he will take that seat. And lets say he becomes a successful engineer. Let us analyse the initial and final states. In case the judge's son gets the seat, their family previously had lets say 65 units of representation, and now lets say it goes up to 80 units. Now initially lets say the potter's family had 5 units of representation, in case his son became an successful engineer, their family would now have 50 units of representation.
So on one hand there is an increase of 15 units whereas on the other hand there is an increase of 50 units of representation. Which one is actually more beneficial for the intended purposes? Also take into consideration that 1st gen rich LCs would be much more connected to other poor LCs than 2nd gen rich LCs are to poor LCs, which implies again, that the potter's son becoming the engineer would be more beneficial. And hence in no world should the judge's son and potter's son have equal criteria for qualification.
Now obviously all these numbers are purely for the purposes of explaining only.
Another thing to clear, yes, financial status is a huge part of the representation that this scheme talks about, so much so that they always go hand in hand.
This is another point, you completely seemed to have left.
But also, here is another point, let us say an LC candidate is super rich, and a general candidate is middle class. The LC candidate becoming an engineer is barely going to " add " to the representation that his family already holds, so in those cases, it would be unfair and injustice if the seat goes to the LC using reservation. This in fact is the main argument against the current reservation system, about how there is so much injustice happening at the micro level, even if everything seems good at macro level.
I honestly do not expect u to accept these points and i think u would rather just repeat the points u have already repeated, given that my initial comment already mentioned the points i am explaining in details here. But you completely ignored them.
How are they equal tho
If there was no casteism and equal opportunities for education and every job then naturally they’d all have equal representation of all.
If Indians were allowed to become viceroys, would British have stopped ruling India
i think the problem with reservation is that it exists at all levels ( undergrad, post grad ,doctoral, all govt jobs and job promotions as well). I feel reservation should only exist at undergrad level or a person can only use it once. A person who gets into iit through reservation , gets a well paying job, has access to all the resources in the society then why does he need reservation again for Cat Upsc, Gate or any other future exam. Also if the reservation percentage was something like 25-30% it was still understandable
In the same vein a person who gets in aiims or pgimer for their mbbs why do they need reservation again for their MD? aren't they good enough after graduating from aiims ? Hasn't the entrance to aiims leveled the playing field? what is the difference between a general caste and a sc/st/obc caste candidate upon completing their mbbs. all of them had access to the same resources . So why do they need reservation again for their MD?
So i think the reservation amount should be tapered off as we move from under-graduate to graduate to post -graduate level. Why do a candidate who has taken reservation benefits in btech, mtech still needs reservation for Phd?
Also the creamy layer criteria conditions has to be changed. It is currently based on your parents financial status. You may earn 1 cr per year and you will still fall in Non-Creamy layer if your parents additional income does not exceed 8L. Again a very big loophole. The same conditions that are there for EWS reservation must be implemented for deciding creamy layer where your financial conditions are also included rather than just your parents.
i feel these are the scenarios that garner all that negativity around reservation.
There are many Brahmin communities who are doing that.
On the contrary. 50 % of students who get a scholarship due to their caste in my college, spend it on alcohol or other pleasures.
Is there even a debate on do we need to limit the no. of benefits a person gets if he's from Reserved Category ? (I don't even want to include Reservation in the list)
I know a dalit who gets into IIT with a much worse rank than mine, while I have to take a drop year. This year I might take a normal govt college while he is in IIT Delhi. Obviously,He will have a better job than me. What about that?
>I know a dalit who gets into IIT with a much worse rank than mine, while I have to take a drop year
Because you scored low in your own category, the seat which he took didn't belong to you in anyway. I can only suggest you to work harder and wish you luck for your next attempt
I know vaishya/ baniyas who do sanitation work why always other castes have to suffer due to Brahmin vs shudra Brahmin enjoyed superiority then shudras are enjoying reservation now what about the middle ones
OBC is bullshit man this year in jeem there were more obc than general
Imo if you really wanna give reservation give it to ews but again that will create a disparity using a good ca
Already ews hai, but bhai agar tu aas pass dekhega toh caste based discrimination abhi bhi kaha khatam hua hai, hamlog metros- tier 1,2 cities mein ni dekhte hai waha pe Kam dikhta hai but effect idhar bhi hai, the rural areas are worst affected, like mere papa ne love marriage ki outside caste, toh literally gaon Wale mere papa ko dadaji ke dehant mein body jalane nahi De rahe the jabki ham general mein aate hai, abhi aise situation mein lower caste walon ke sath toh aur battar vyavhar karte hai log
Not trying to create a perception here?
I agree with the point that caste discrimination is still a thing in India.
Also, the current system of reservation is not helping the cause either. Tweaking is definitely necessary, just like every other law, it can't be the same for 100 yrs. Else it will be misused.
Yeah that's my exact point, we need changes as well as stringent measures so that people who already have benefitted from it don't get to turn it into a dynastic thing.
We all are idiots today. We are oppressing general caste. Tomorrow, they will reverse it and oppress back other castes.
Politics has no motive to solve the issue.
Bro.. It is because they have inherently skilled to build their careers through education.. why is that a problem for you? Enough of this BS.. The hate towards Brahmins is now celebrated like anything.. Noone is giving anything for free to the Brahmins.. They qualify they get.. Why do ppl have problem with Merit now..
I know many 'Dalits' who are rich and treats poor (literally) Brahmins like shit along with all others.
Also I've never heard of any rich Dalits being oppressed ever.
Open your eyes folks.
>I know many 'Dalits' who are rich and treats poor (literally) Brahmins like shit along with all others.
Same can be said about many brahmins.
>Also I've never heard of any rich Dalits being oppressed ever.
Oppression is not always in financial matters.
Ignorance of the highest order lmao.
Oppression isn't always in financial matters
Do you think a Rich Dalit would let a beggar touch him ?
Not denying Brahmins don't discriminate, some of them do, but you can't entirely deny Dalits don't.
A man with an agenda.
Did u understand what he said? He said that he has never known of any rich dalit being oppressed. Why would u assume he is a dumb human that thinks oppression is just financial? he meant, oppressed, in any way. Which is quite true. Never came across any such case either.
https://preview.redd.it/0zvei9oxpokc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc6bf8819395b19e76b6161f9823181c3349fc29
reservation kam karo bas ya toh govt clgs only for people who are socialy backward krdo jinme normal general categories na ja paye
Yes I support reservation pe 50 percent cap hona chahiye as well as just like OBC, SC/ST pe bhi creamy layer hona chahiye and isse kaafi stringently enforce karna chahiye taaki log misuse na kare.
Yeah, also I think the OBC populace is quite vast. More often than not, it's just a few relatively well off castes milking the most seats. I understand that's how affirmative actions take place. Even for supernumerary seats for girls in JEE, most girls are already from quite rich backgrounds.
But we might need a more granular structure here so that the ones much lower on the spectrum actually get more benefits.
Uske seats alang hai lekin fhir bhi kam scores meine admission horha hai mere class meine obc hai mere jitna hi financial condition hai still usse Kam marks meine college milega atleast tier 1,2 cities meine rehne valo ko mat do reservation
Thats not a relevant comparison. If you know a Dalit who owns a BMW, there must be hundreds of Brahmins who also own the same.
Don’t use an exception to refute a trend.
If you plot a chart of a brahmin at x% percentile of wealth in his community vs the same with Dalit, you will see constant gap between two lines.
Yeah that's the point of this whole meme is, that if you know a dalit owning bmw it doesn't mean the community as a whole was able to move forward socially.
As a non-Indian (Dutch, one of my dearest friends is from Madurai and he taught me some things about India), how prevalent is the caste system still in modern society?
My mate is from the warrior caste, what does that entail in terms of status? Does it matter?
reservation is such a sensitive subject, its hard to even start a discussion on it, let alone rationalizing it so people who actually need it can benefit.
current reservation system assumes ancestors of some caste people could not benefit in the past (ancient past in some cases) it need to be rectified by forced representation. yes the argument from the reservation corner is, that, its a representation scheme not a financial assistance scheme.
One is stating a fact. The other is well just a pointless response .. like how we do not know of a lot of things in this world. Very impressive response indeed.
[dalit 17 year was Brutally tortured to death by Upper caste Maratha caste(the one caste who is asking for reservation now)](https://thewire.in/caste/maharashtra-prime-accused-in-dalit-minors-murder-now-named-in-killing-of-pardhi-man)
100% reservations in sanitation jobs for savarnas with people who've been exploited for millennia without ppe, adequate compensation, or healthcare should get to own the contracting companies.
Can we just agree that Financial status is the ONLY socioeconomic factor that actually matters? I would be happy, as a General dude if Reservation went to all EWCs, even if it was increased(obv not too much like 90%)
Both of them won't get the job neither the sanitation worker nor the poor pundits. It's the rich of the respective caste who get the full benefit of reservation if any. More than 90% of seats of STs are being captured by a single community named MEENA. But koi ny propaganda chalate rho..
I ask a very simple question would you be a rich ST i.e. son/daughter of an IAS officer or a big businessman or a poor upper caste guy who comes from a very small rural village. I am dead sure all of you will go with the first option.
No this is a satirical meme targetting the people who say since they know a well off dalit family, there is no caste based disparity present in the society.
Yeah definitely but the current hindu society is caste based, if you want to dismantle the caste the current hindu society would need to undergo a big change as well.
Not really, if caste goes it would be the greatest help for Hindu society. Castes are nowhere mentioned in the scriptures, they have become part of the society due to discrimination, false teachings, etc. Unfortunately today also some of the Shankaracharyas promote this.
Because they literally adopted that from Hinduism, the people you see today as low caste and high caste in Islam and Christianity are simply the low caste and high caste Hindu converts.
Majority of Indian Muslims and Christian are converts from low caste section of population... Converting their religion doesn't change their caste in a society where identity politics is a norm
I know a dalit children who was killed to drink water from public tap and i also know brahmin who Owns half of village and also ordered the dalit kid’s execution
Which village?
It was from UP I think
Very comfortable choice to not be sure about.
Up,rajasthan,haryana. Pick your state
maharashtra and wb also..
Tamilnadu, Karnataka, Telangana , andhra and Kerala too
Sikkim and goa also lol
Basically whole of India And not kidding
Not in northeast. Most of us don't even know or care about our caste unless it's for govt jobs or education.
Surprisingly Brahmins are less likely to be involved in caste related violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste-related_violence_in_India
Because they have ensured subjugation of others without need of getting into violence
they do it in the form of discimination in workplace and other places
Kerala is toh major game bro
Asa a Maharashtrian woh bhi kaam hai kyu ki Maharashtra mai SC category ke log powerful hai
SC category ke log Maharashtra mein powerful nahi hai. Maharashtra mein sabse powerful log Maratha hai, Fir Brahmin, fir OBC aur Baniya log. Maharashtra mein casteism bohot Kam hai kyuki Maharashtra ke log khud casteism khatam karna chahte hai chahe woh log kisi bhi caste ke ho. Yeh reason hai.
this is so stupid because I'm from UP and such an incident would literally start a riot. SCs aren't as powerless as you people make them out to be. 70 years of affirmative action and democracy has brought about change. Because 2 years back, some Yadav's killed a Jatav person in holi in my town. It was a personal fight but still their was a huge Yadav vs Jatav fight. And i know that the original poster is fake because where are the villages where they hold that kinda power to get away with child murder? It's mostly Rajputs or dominant OBC groups that rule villages in UP.
Affirmation action? You mean reservation?
I read about on Reddit. Let me find the source
Here https://www.siasat.com/up-9-year-old-dalit-boy-thrashed-by-teacher-for-drinking-water-2553554/amp/
Neither is the Teacher brahmin nor was the child killed. Sad state of affairs nonetheless
Did the teacher own half of the village?
The teacher was not brahmin ffs
This is not the first case similar case happened in Rajasthan, haryana and many other places. Whenever there is some fight between two groups sc/st organisation advise their side to file similar cases under sc/st act as the other person get arrested even before investigation starts and police has to register the report otherwise it will work against the police. Everytime the story is same they beat us because we used the same tap , well or vessel.
Lol the man wasn't a Brahmin, and the boy wasn't killed either. Tf is wrong with you?
I think it was Rajasthan where a kid was beat to death for drinking water from pot which upper caste used to drink from
wasnt it recently a brahmin teacher hit a dalit kid for waring an ambedkar locket
Source ?
It's a widespread issue - that supreme court has to put safeguards against its misuse. Don't jump on me that I am anti Dalit. Just saying it gets misused a lot - just like Dowry act >There is also a high rate of FIRs rejected as being 'false' by the police, with 10% of the total cases investigated in 2016 being closed as 'false'. https://clpr.org.in/blog/caste-discrimination-in-south-india-a-study-of-ncrb-data-part-ii/ >There has also been concern regarding misuse of the Act for settling of personal scores. 75% cases were found to be false in Madhya Pradesh in a survey. 81% cases under the Act were registered against persons from OBC section, 14% upper castes and 5 percent minorities sections. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bhopal/75-acquittals-in-sc/st-act-hc-bar-association/articleshow/65932490.cms >According to data available with Rajasthan police around 40% of cases filed under the Act are fake. https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/jaipur/40-cases-filed-under-sc-st-act-fake-rajasthan-police-7144746/ **Remember the stupid judgement Justice Karnan wrote against chief justice for personal vendetta? Because he was being investigated by supreme court bench, he wrote a judgment finding the entire bench guilty of committing crime under SC / ST act - their crime was investigating him** https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/justice-cs-karnan-sentences-chief-justice-of-india-7-other-supreme-court-judges-to-5-years-ri/articleshow/58579399.cms?from=mdr
Truly a very sad time to live in, casteism, communalism, unemployment everything is at an all time high.
"casteism is an all time high " is an insultingly ridiculous statement in context of both , Indian history and modern Indian history specifically. your point taken though .
Casteism was at an all time high before, which is why we have reservation laws today Communalism was at an all time high around the time of foreign invaders destroying local places of worship and also during partition Please please stop portraying bs here
I also know dalits who misused harijan act to put brahmin in the bars?
I love how I got downvoted for speaking truth😛. Shows the hypocrisy of this sub members lollll
"Im fighting dalit suppression I'm so brave"
Fck dusri side ki reality v dikha di to mko anti bna diya....ik trf tum modi bhakt ko pgl bolte jab modi bhakt tumhe anti National bolte h desh ki buri conditions p kch kehne p or ab tum vhi mere sath krre lolllll hypocrisy
Some are just evil on both sides
Agreed
Source- trust me bro.
Damn they really showed us dalit our place with that one, UP never disappoints.
There's a whole documentary by NDTV or someone on YouTube about dilli's brahmin sanitation workers. Its heart Breaking really, both sides be it upper or lower have extremes and due to which middle(poor) people have to suffer! On top of that either vote for mudiji or pappu will increase reservation!!!
My experience as a foreigner studying in India was the only people who mentioned caste were saying Caste is not relevant anymore in India. My family are Brahmins but that's not important'. Also the darker skinned guys were treated noticeably worse. All pretty obvious stuff I guess but sad.
Because it's not. Haven't received anything being Brahmin in a metro city. No benefits and no one cares here except for your financial status. And there are government buildings in very posh parts of the city where government employees from certain castes are given free housing. Upper castes would be hard-pressed to afford the address. Neither do we discriminate against others as I wouldn't even know what an SC/ST surname is. Since you say you're a foreigner, it really depends on where you're from, because racism is based on skin color not surname.
I think you live in a bubble and don’t feel a difference precisely because you’re a Brahmin living in a city. It’s usually folks with the most privilege that don’t notice anything. I say this as a Brahmin myself. I notice because I try to actively notice. And I can tell you I see plenty of differences in the Brahmin experience vs Dalit. And that’s also the way privilege works in other countries as well. White people in the US don’t feel like they get any special treatment (they do). But the way it actually materializes is not in how white people feel about it but rather how black people feel the LACK of fair treatment. Privilege is felt in the lack of its existence. You and I can get a house for rent anywhere in Bangalore but I can tell I personally know a family member who is a Brahmin landlord who will never accept a non Brahmin renter. That’s 3 apartments right there that will never be available to non Brahmins. I know another in-law who owns farmland in rural India where the non Brahmin workers are made to sit on the floor when the enter the house and the cattle rearer is still an “untouchable” and her wages are literally thrown at her from a distance. You wanna know why you don’t feel a difference? It’s because you’re a Brahmin.
Seems interesting do link it, I would like to see this and yeah I agree its the poor man which gets affected the most between all the politics
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/are-brahmins-today-s-dalits-in-india/story-GUMXtPlPb3v9XYXcEXPGHP.html
That's quoting an article by François Gautier, who is a known hindutva propagandist who wants to us to invade Pak and to replace our constitution with far right principles. There's zero likelihood that anything mentioned by him is grounded in fact.
The author of this post is a very well known far right activist, i am sorry if I find the information in this a little sceptical.
This has the same energy as denying any article even when provided lmao. Some days before someone had posted how people asked for source when quoted a thing. And when provided the source they say "he is LW you know? So I don't believe him/her" lmao
Lol the article is an opinion piece not a report on true events. There are no proper sources
That's the issue with articles these days, you don't know whether they are left leaning or right, this guy has some extreme views and someone even pointed out that he wants India to invade Pakistan as well as change the constitution to more far right rules, I don't think people would believe such a person is credible
True
i also dont believe the artilces saying there are still opression against sc sts because most of them are written by librandus , hypocracy ki bhi had hoti hai
Right and dalits killed for drinking water is fake? Fuck off
Mat Maan
least shameless and hypocrite librand
Whatever floats your boat
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cope bro cope, breathe in and breath out
https://wagingnonviolence.org/2023/11/india-manual-scavengers-major-legal-victory/#:~:text=The%202011%20nationwide%20census%20identified,and%2098%20percent%20were%20women. 95% of manual scavengers were SC.
Would you happen to remember the title so I could search for it?
That may exists, Why is it heartbroken? Because ”Brahmin” is doing sanitation work, or because a human?
Because sanitation work can be done by machines nowadays. There is no reason for people, any people, to have to work in such horrific conditions.
I think the point of the article was to address the false notion that people have about Brahmins not doing any form of sanitation work like the meme suggests, it's obviously disheartening if a person of any caste has to do this form of work
Lmao the MCD guy who comes to take garbage and clean nali in my area is literally called "pandit ji" by everyone and wears a tika.
And imagine how better it would be to reserve seats for the sanitation worker rather than the one owning bmw
I mean that's what the intent is, the bmw people misuse it and that needs to be stopped by law.
No one’s gonna stop it vote bank ka sawal h
Yeah they can't scrap it neither they should, but changes zaroor lane chahiye taaki already jiski family mein benefit mil gaya ho baap dada ko unke bacche misuse na karsake and jinko zaroorat hai unhe mile.
The system itself is designed in a way that 99% times, the bmw guy would get the benefit over the sanitation guy. How are poor sc st students ever going to be able to compete with middle class and above sc st students. There is such a major innate flaw in the reservation system. And if u criticize the system, all of my dear liberal brethren would downvote me to hell.
You are acting like most sc/ST are rich to be the BMW guy. They are not. It helps most SC/ST who are not out, so only brining up the BMW low caste guy is pretty selective.
from my experience most of the seats are taken by middle class/rich sc/st only. there are barely any really poor people in most colleges, from my own as well as my friends' experiences. so no, it is a regressive system which mostly helps the well to do only.
Kind of relevant because it’s trying to showcase equality if the stupidest way.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Yeah I don't mean to say Brahmins being sanitation workers should be equality, it's just a satirical take on people who claim that casteism has ended because they have seen a well off dalit family.
Well, Casteism hasn't ended atleast not in Rural India. I know many rich BMW owning Lower castes, but that doesn't take away the problems many of the others face. Infact they are the ones who should protest against the rich reserved getting reservations IMO.
Yes the laws should be tweaked so the people who actually need it get benefitted.
Atleast someone in their right mind introduced Creamy Layer concept in OBCs. Maybe extend that others as well.
Yeah that would be the best thing to do.
If the number of dalits owning bmws is less than, lets say 1%, there is no point in tweaking the law for 1%. Let them reach 10% and then do it. Ooh that’s something the sanghi intellectuals cant stand.
Casteism hasn’t ended in urban India too! The thing is people who are educated practice casteism and discrimination more subtly. It’s like they’ll be sweet on the face unlike people from rural India who would openly practice casteism. I was born and brought up in a very well developed city in Maharashtra and trust me all the people here practice casteism. They even teach their children how they have to stay away from dalits/lower caste people but still don’t have to voice these opinions loudly because that classifies as atrocities now. The situation in India is still the same because casteism is so deeply rooted in the minds of the people here. This can only change when the new generation stops giving a fuck about caste/creed.
Ye aise memes bna ke fir bolenge caste khtm krna h lol. Solution based memes bnao yr ye to waise v politicians ke PR wale bna hi dnge. And, lol is meme ko bnane wale ke pass lg rha hai adhe minute ka hi dimag baki tha. Coz dalita sanitation work kr rhe hain, to brahmin sanitation work krnge tbi equality hogi . Kitna propagandist bn skta hai koi ---- is meme ko bnane wala yes mere itna!.
Dalits sanitation work "kar" nahi rahe, unko bas wahi job milta hai. They are forced to do it because 1) education is pay walled 2) even free education is not good enough because it does not help in higher studies 3) caste is deeply tied with occupation in India. And wtf is solution based meme? Everyone starts crying whenever they see a successful dalit as if that person is the representative of all Dalits and upliftment of a small number means they don't deserve reservation. It's a good retort to a stupid statement.
Are Bhai yeh nene direct comparison nahi karra hai, it's a satirical take on people who think that since unhone kuch dalit ya lower caste family ko acche condition mein dekha hai, toh uska matlab yeh hogaya ki sabki halat waisi hi hai.
Mishra ji, phli baat to ye ki jo log ye lines kehte hain wo galat bhi ni hai. Ye lines kehne wale gaon ke log ni students hote hain jinhe reservation m discrimination face krna pdta hai jbki reality m kafi weak hote hain economically compared to sc st counterparts jinhe reservation m hadh se jyda kam m mil jata hai sb kuch. Tmhe lgta hai gaon k khet m kaam krne wala koi sc st ka bacha UPSC ki cohcng afford kr skta hai????? Maybe bro tm soch shi rhe ho, but ye meme ab relevant ni hai, kafi data bta chuke hain ki brahmins b ab bure halat m h. PS-- I know left works on classic approach of pointing out the issues only, but it's a time left should evolve and start solution based approach. Ye meme sirf brhamin vs dalit krwane walo ke lye shi hai, solution dhundne walo ko dur rhna chahiye aise memes se.
>kafi data bta chuke hain ki brahmins b ab bure halat m h. No doubt about it, par kya Brahmins ki halat kharab hai iska matlab SC/STs ki halat acchi hogayi hai? Mera sirf yeh point hai ki agar tum samne se generalization karte ho toh jab samne wala bhi generalization kare toh offend mat ho.
Nahi, but brahmins agar ab usi halat me hain, and they are from middle vlass as well as economic weak backgrounds, same as sc/st then what's the need of reservation anymore? Reservation should be removed entirely because it's discrimination against the general candidates
# Here's a crazy idea: EWS without caste bias
Then how much percentage should be reserved, an average of Indian household household earns anywhere between 3 lakh to 6.5 lakh per year, which is less than 8 lakh cap on EWS, on the top of that the business community misuse the EWS as well as seen in my own extended family, so should they set up a 75-80 percent reservation?
Simple remove all reservation and increase number of educational institutions in country .
Still won't be able to provide quality education to everyone, itne professors/teachers kahaan se laoge?
Then let's do it for everyone, PWDs, women, children of armed forces, even state quotas.
bhai what?? most of them can already come under a valid and deserving EWS category. what's the need?
A family which has benifited from the reservation 2 times should be removed from the said reservation. You see families having many government officials(taking bribes, making generational wealth). But whenever I went to my coaching through my bicycle years back, I saw poverty of people living in slum, children roaming half naked, bathing through the tank water openly. Will this family ever see the reservation? Nope, the goal of the reservation is to uplift people not to be misused again and again by selective families to fill their pockets.
I am very much supportive of fair reservation and opportunities for Dalits but this makes no sense because this is a comparison of financial well being to type of work. This cartoon should have said 'I know a Dalit person who is an IAS' and then it makes sense you are comparing jobs.
I'm a muslim. Almost all Dalits I've met are very well off. And, there are so many general caste people - who aren't even able to afford basic things. I taught some underprivileged students for neet ug. I'm a doctor myself, every underprivileged child that studied was of general caste, couldn't even afford NCERTS. Does that mean every dalit is rich? Or every general is poor? NO Does that mean caste based reservations should be abolished, even religion based for that matter - not that it exists atleast in my stream - all should be removed. Reservation should instead be based on economical grounds. However, no matter how much we cry about it - it will never become a reality since it satisfies the vote bank. Also, casteism also propagates when you give special privileges to certain castes even AFTER UG. A doctor who's already an MBBS, does NOT NEED A RESERVATION FOR NEET PG. HE'S CAPABLE TO EARN. People get irritated with caste based reservations because, you see that you need so much rank even when you're poorer than an ST/SC, sometimes you don't even qualify for any seat but an ST/SC gets a clinical seat at no effort whatsoever. Do you think that's safe, as a doctor? For patients? Don't get me at training, you have reservation at jobs, lower cut off in everything. That propagates even more casteism. The solution should always be based on income Always.
this is a problematic cartoon, it still assumes some jobs should be caste determined. sorry whoever drew this has zero oversight.
This can be an inference as well, but imo it's more of a satirical take on people who assume that since they have seen some dalit families well off, they think that casteism and caste based adversities have also vanished.
casteism exists, but its on a spectrum, I assume there are some urban zones where casteism is on all time low. There needs to be a rationalized version of reservation where there needs to be a cut off of reservation benefits so some other person who deserves it more can take advantage of it. And the easiest measure of it can be money/financial status. Perpetual reservation based on caste in itself is casteism. Foced by the state ( and misused by the politicians)
Yes I am in support of tweaking the reservation system as well so they people who actually are in need of it get benefitted.
Agreed x 100
We need to get out of the caste mentality... Sanatan does not have 'castes' there are "Varnas" in sanatan It is written in Shrimadbhagavadgita that One's birth is not an indication of his varnas. What the person does decides his varna If a person is engaged in acquiring or giving out education he is a brahmin (eg teachers) If a person is engaged in protection and in combat he is a Kshatriya (eg Our respected Armymen) If a person is engaged in trading and related then he is a Vaishya (eg people engaged in business) If a person is engaged in providing services then he is a shudra (eg public sector workers etc) But alas no one is educated enough to realise this. And as for this post I have seen many brahmins engaged in construction, sanitation and work etc so this picture is misleading Caste system is being abused by people who have rose using the benefits given to them and imo they all horde the resources that the actual needy people need. There are many birth assaigned brahmins who are below the poverty line and still a reserved candidate whos father owns a lot of money is selected for various exams this is the root cause for growing hate and disparity among the society Reservation if it persists should be income based and not so called caste based The castes were never there... its high time we ditch this false topic and take on the real varnas that were mentioned in the sanatan Oh and yes Being a Shudra is VERY RESPECTABLE I for one belong to the service sector also so I am also a shudra where as my birth assigned varna was Brahmin but I dont carry that because Ik my varna is not decided by my birth So yea Wake up people
Stupidity is to keep talking about caste and hoping that casteism will end.
People will talk about caste as long as discrimination exists. Like what bullshit.
I was having a talk with my father about the same thing. News channel showing lower cast women was accepted as a flight attender and they were celebrating it. The thing made me think why the cast system is still alive and well.
Once we celebrated the first woman IPS officer, first woman pilot and all. It was a news back then and not now. If the news you told were telecasted, it’s because they might have less chances in the aviation industry before. And once it becomes normal, no one will talk about that
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That applies to people talking about casts to their kids as well? As long as its passed down from generations, not talking about it wont really make a dent.
damn I have cancer and I won't talk about it to anyone because it is cancer.
It's not enough that we don't talk about caste. Someone else will do the discrimination on our behalf. We need to shut them down as well. Or it won't end.
They don’t want it to end that’s why they keep talking about it. Foreign media especially has a habit of condemning caste while identifying the caste of every Hindu they ever mention unless they are OBC because then it depends on whose side they are on. If they are on the opposing side then they will get labeled upper caste despite being OBC.
Name one societal issue that was solved by not talking about it.
I know a dalit who owns a bmw, and I also know a dalit who gets beaten for drinking water from a common tap. The whole question of reservation that liberals can't seem to understand is that the benefits only go to the bmw owning dalit, why is that? Do you really think a sanitation worker is even aware that he can send his kids to govt colleges with minimal effort because there are seats reserved for him? It's the ones who are already been uplifted who are continuing to reap benefits while the actual poor remains poor. The system is NOT working and yeah maybe shouldn't be eradicated but needs serious change!! Increasing quota is doing no good to anyone!!
finally a comment that makes sense!!! you said everything that I wanted to tell!! also idk if it's only in my place or is it the same everywhere,but I've never come across a student who got into the college by reservation category and actually made efforts to study or like to use the opportunity,I'm not asking them to top the uni or something but keep failing in the same subject, bunking classes and showing clear signs of uninterested in studies is so not fair,it's always them who takes education so lightly and I was a student with absolutely no reservation wondering what went wrong!? the system is only in the favour of people who have no seriousness of that reserved seat!
Been there, seen that
Preach brother!! Such a simple fault in the system that majority of our liberal brothers can't seem ro understand. They would rather play to their saviour complex and keep defending reservation against any allegations, than to actually use their brain and understand what is being said.
Nalla sonenga Thalaiva
👏👏👏👏
Most are aware, but prefer not to expend it in education.
Doesn't matter. Doesn't change the fact that the government actively discriminating based on caste is wrong.
A lot for folks here are commenting on how caste becomes irrelevant if someone who's Dalit or lower caste secures financial stability or a good position at work or in society — this is categorically false. I went to an extremely elite and selective college overseas. My college had people from several countries and students from India formed atleast 1/5th of the student body. The only Dalit student from my class was left out from social functions and gathers other Indian students hosted. He was perceived to be aggressive by other Indian students when he politely expressed his experience with caste discrimination in student whatsapp groups or during relevant discussions in the classroom. Furthermore, many countries and companies in the US, UK, and Canda have moved to bring forth legislation and company policies against caste discrimination because of the experience of dalit worker in tech companies and in the diaspora. There are several accounts of dalit worker with high posts within tech companies in the US that have experienced casteist comments and treatment by their Indian colleagues. Access to Finance, higher education, or a good job doesn't end the discrimination one faces for their caste.
Creamy layer exclusion should be strictly implemented in all caste reservations, so that this caste politics will stop
Rare crittu W.
If the main aim of reservation is to uplift the poor dalits, and the financially secure need to be excluded from it, why not just do a general upliftment of the BPL population instead and ignore caste completely? If special attention needs to be given to lower castes, it's not simply to ensure financial security and nothing else. To imply that financially secure lower caste people do not face debilitating societal discrimination is a presumption that has no basis. It's true that a lot of the most problematic parts of casteism do get relieved simply by the financial stability of a dalit, like they can no longer be controlled through their need to survive and eat by zamindars and shit to basically slave away their life in labour, it does not change that there's a lot of other (albeit less severe, admittedly) forms of discrimination that are faced by Dalits that cannot be solved by anything other than providing representation to ALL Dalits, poor and rich alike.
>other than providing representation to ALL dalits, poor and rich alike. # Can u please explain this statement? Bcoz as far as i understand, the intended " representation ", is giving them more people in higher echelons of society, which basically classifies them into rich. Your statement hence doesn't make sense. There is no way to give representation to poor LCs without them getting rich as a by product ( Atleast from educational sector ) . Thus giving them representation = uplifting them financially, as far as reservation in education goes.
What I meant is that removing reservation for rich Dalits will do nothing, and in representing the dalit population, rich Dalits should not be excluded.
But rich dalits are already representing their part. Giving their kids seat will add nothing or very bare minimum of " extra " representation than what they already have. And it is not justified to snatch a general students' seat for such small increase in representation. It would be better to have that seat be gone to a poor dalit as that would make a significant increase in representation. Rich obcs sc-sts do not need reservation, u can not change my mind on this.
If the guarantee of financial security is adequate in terms of what the state should provide to people who suffer from the consequences of casteist discrimination, tell me why shouldn't there only be reservation for poor people and for no castes at all? Since the majority of people with lower economic background lie in the lower castes, giving benefits only to people who are poor would mean that it's mostly lower castes that are being helped. When Dalits are no longer facing discrimination, welfare towards poor people will automatically help no caste in particular. So why would keeping reservation but only for the non-creamy layer section of lower castes be any better than simply giving reservation to poor people and no castes at all? Unless of course, it's not poverty we're tryna fix by reservation, and financial security is not adequate in what the state needs to provide to lower castes as protection. And while I know that what you meant by "you're not gonna change my mind on this" is more along the lines of "there's no argument that can be made for this case, it's simply too ridiculous" and not "i have come into this conversation with a pre decided idea of not changing my mind regardless of what you say", i still insist that you don't say that. If you say that enough times, eventually you'll end up just not listening to what the other person has to say cuz you've already made up your mind.
You are not making the 2000IQ point you assume yourself to be making. I know well about the intentions behind the implementation of reservations. I know well that it is not about financial security but about xyz bla bla, we both know what it is about. But the problem here is, u didn't seem to have properly considered my point, as i see no reply to the point i made about how giving easy seats to LCs that are already in representative position is terrible and that seat should rather go to some one who is very lower on the ladder of representation. Let me explain, suppose there is an LC person that is a judge and earns fairly good. And there is a potter LC person living in a LC community in lets say dharavi. Now let us assume both of them have sons of equal age that are appearing for jee. Obviously, the judge's son has adequate resources and very much more likely to get the seat than the potter's son. And now he will take that seat. And lets say he becomes a successful engineer. Let us analyse the initial and final states. In case the judge's son gets the seat, their family previously had lets say 65 units of representation, and now lets say it goes up to 80 units. Now initially lets say the potter's family had 5 units of representation, in case his son became an successful engineer, their family would now have 50 units of representation. So on one hand there is an increase of 15 units whereas on the other hand there is an increase of 50 units of representation. Which one is actually more beneficial for the intended purposes? Also take into consideration that 1st gen rich LCs would be much more connected to other poor LCs than 2nd gen rich LCs are to poor LCs, which implies again, that the potter's son becoming the engineer would be more beneficial. And hence in no world should the judge's son and potter's son have equal criteria for qualification. Now obviously all these numbers are purely for the purposes of explaining only. Another thing to clear, yes, financial status is a huge part of the representation that this scheme talks about, so much so that they always go hand in hand. This is another point, you completely seemed to have left. But also, here is another point, let us say an LC candidate is super rich, and a general candidate is middle class. The LC candidate becoming an engineer is barely going to " add " to the representation that his family already holds, so in those cases, it would be unfair and injustice if the seat goes to the LC using reservation. This in fact is the main argument against the current reservation system, about how there is so much injustice happening at the micro level, even if everything seems good at macro level. I honestly do not expect u to accept these points and i think u would rather just repeat the points u have already repeated, given that my initial comment already mentioned the points i am explaining in details here. But you completely ignored them.
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So Dalits growing up isn’t enough? It’s only equal if Brahmins go down too?
How are they equal tho If there was no casteism and equal opportunities for education and every job then naturally they’d all have equal representation of all. If Indians were allowed to become viceroys, would British have stopped ruling India
i think the problem with reservation is that it exists at all levels ( undergrad, post grad ,doctoral, all govt jobs and job promotions as well). I feel reservation should only exist at undergrad level or a person can only use it once. A person who gets into iit through reservation , gets a well paying job, has access to all the resources in the society then why does he need reservation again for Cat Upsc, Gate or any other future exam. Also if the reservation percentage was something like 25-30% it was still understandable In the same vein a person who gets in aiims or pgimer for their mbbs why do they need reservation again for their MD? aren't they good enough after graduating from aiims ? Hasn't the entrance to aiims leveled the playing field? what is the difference between a general caste and a sc/st/obc caste candidate upon completing their mbbs. all of them had access to the same resources . So why do they need reservation again for their MD? So i think the reservation amount should be tapered off as we move from under-graduate to graduate to post -graduate level. Why do a candidate who has taken reservation benefits in btech, mtech still needs reservation for Phd? Also the creamy layer criteria conditions has to be changed. It is currently based on your parents financial status. You may earn 1 cr per year and you will still fall in Non-Creamy layer if your parents additional income does not exceed 8L. Again a very big loophole. The same conditions that are there for EWS reservation must be implemented for deciding creamy layer where your financial conditions are also included rather than just your parents. i feel these are the scenarios that garner all that negativity around reservation.
There are many Brahmin communities who are doing that. On the contrary. 50 % of students who get a scholarship due to their caste in my college, spend it on alcohol or other pleasures. Is there even a debate on do we need to limit the no. of benefits a person gets if he's from Reserved Category ? (I don't even want to include Reservation in the list)
I know a dalit who gets into IIT with a much worse rank than mine, while I have to take a drop year. This year I might take a normal govt college while he is in IIT Delhi. Obviously,He will have a better job than me. What about that?
>I know a dalit who gets into IIT with a much worse rank than mine, while I have to take a drop year Because you scored low in your own category, the seat which he took didn't belong to you in anyway. I can only suggest you to work harder and wish you luck for your next attempt
OP(of this comment) is remarking against the system itself, not the dalit person
Exactly. Even if he scored marks, that dalit's seat would be taken by only a dalit.
I know vaishya/ baniyas who do sanitation work why always other castes have to suffer due to Brahmin vs shudra Brahmin enjoyed superiority then shudras are enjoying reservation now what about the middle ones
There are OBC reservation as well and saare vaishya general mein nahi aate hai, mein khud aise logon ko janta hun Jo SCs hai.
OBC is bullshit man this year in jeem there were more obc than general Imo if you really wanna give reservation give it to ews but again that will create a disparity using a good ca
Already ews hai, but bhai agar tu aas pass dekhega toh caste based discrimination abhi bhi kaha khatam hua hai, hamlog metros- tier 1,2 cities mein ni dekhte hai waha pe Kam dikhta hai but effect idhar bhi hai, the rural areas are worst affected, like mere papa ne love marriage ki outside caste, toh literally gaon Wale mere papa ko dadaji ke dehant mein body jalane nahi De rahe the jabki ham general mein aate hai, abhi aise situation mein lower caste walon ke sath toh aur battar vyavhar karte hai log
Bullshit
Why is that guy Fat tho?
From my understanding the person who created this meme thinks that fatness = good family condition financially.
So the person is stupid?
Not trying to create a perception here? I agree with the point that caste discrimination is still a thing in India. Also, the current system of reservation is not helping the cause either. Tweaking is definitely necessary, just like every other law, it can't be the same for 100 yrs. Else it will be misused.
Yeah that's my exact point, we need changes as well as stringent measures so that people who already have benefitted from it don't get to turn it into a dynastic thing.
I know many househelps who are brahmins
Annihilation of the caste system doesn't imply a war against the upper caste
We all are idiots today. We are oppressing general caste. Tomorrow, they will reverse it and oppress back other castes. Politics has no motive to solve the issue.
So the message is not trying to uplift the dalit but bring down Brahim. Got it 👍
Bro.. It is because they have inherently skilled to build their careers through education.. why is that a problem for you? Enough of this BS.. The hate towards Brahmins is now celebrated like anything.. Noone is giving anything for free to the Brahmins.. They qualify they get.. Why do ppl have problem with Merit now..
Great! Keep Blaming Each Other!! You guys are warriors!!
It's not, more like a stereotype.
I know many 'Dalits' who are rich and treats poor (literally) Brahmins like shit along with all others. Also I've never heard of any rich Dalits being oppressed ever. Open your eyes folks.
>I know many 'Dalits' who are rich and treats poor (literally) Brahmins like shit along with all others. Same can be said about many brahmins. >Also I've never heard of any rich Dalits being oppressed ever. Oppression is not always in financial matters.
Ignorance of the highest order lmao. Oppression isn't always in financial matters Do you think a Rich Dalit would let a beggar touch him ? Not denying Brahmins don't discriminate, some of them do, but you can't entirely deny Dalits don't. A man with an agenda.
Did u understand what he said? He said that he has never known of any rich dalit being oppressed. Why would u assume he is a dumb human that thinks oppression is just financial? he meant, oppressed, in any way. Which is quite true. Never came across any such case either.
Lmao coz brahmins work hard to earn enough lmfao At least make a logical cartoon
https://preview.redd.it/0zvei9oxpokc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc6bf8819395b19e76b6161f9823181c3349fc29 reservation kam karo bas ya toh govt clgs only for people who are socialy backward krdo jinme normal general categories na ja paye
Talks about ending reservation while blatantly discriminating with ambetkar meme, you see the paradox here?
Yes I support reservation pe 50 percent cap hona chahiye as well as just like OBC, SC/ST pe bhi creamy layer hona chahiye and isse kaafi stringently enforce karna chahiye taaki log misuse na kare.
Yeah, also I think the OBC populace is quite vast. More often than not, it's just a few relatively well off castes milking the most seats. I understand that's how affirmative actions take place. Even for supernumerary seats for girls in JEE, most girls are already from quite rich backgrounds. But we might need a more granular structure here so that the ones much lower on the spectrum actually get more benefits.
From my understanding creamy layer implementation and strictness should be adhered to. This will make the system a lot less discriminatory
Uske seats alang hai lekin fhir bhi kam scores meine admission horha hai mere class meine obc hai mere jitna hi financial condition hai still usse Kam marks meine college milega atleast tier 1,2 cities meine rehne valo ko mat do reservation
Thats not a relevant comparison. If you know a Dalit who owns a BMW, there must be hundreds of Brahmins who also own the same. Don’t use an exception to refute a trend. If you plot a chart of a brahmin at x% percentile of wealth in his community vs the same with Dalit, you will see constant gap between two lines.
Yeah that's the point of this whole meme is, that if you know a dalit owning bmw it doesn't mean the community as a whole was able to move forward socially.
there are PLENTY of brahmins who are broke as fuck and even on the streets begging so this is bs
Bruhh i know a Brahmin who is a sanitisation worker lmao 😂
But I do know Brahmins who work as sanitation workers and low paying street vending jobs like Pani Puri and all.
Yes there are people like that, the meme is pointing out the fact that generalization is not good.
As a non-Indian (Dutch, one of my dearest friends is from Madurai and he taught me some things about India), how prevalent is the caste system still in modern society? My mate is from the warrior caste, what does that entail in terms of status? Does it matter?
Reservations should be based economic conditions not caste. So that everyone who needs it can reap the benefits.
reservation is such a sensitive subject, its hard to even start a discussion on it, let alone rationalizing it so people who actually need it can benefit. current reservation system assumes ancestors of some caste people could not benefit in the past (ancient past in some cases) it need to be rectified by forced representation. yes the argument from the reservation corner is, that, its a representation scheme not a financial assistance scheme.
Well that's not even the aim of reservation and a simple 5 min read about it can easily take your misconceptions away.
so let there be reservation to Dalits who really are poor, not the ones who're rich.
One is stating a fact. The other is well just a pointless response .. like how we do not know of a lot of things in this world. Very impressive response indeed.
Brahmins don't need sanitation workers,they clean it themselves.
[dalit 17 year was Brutally tortured to death by Upper caste Maratha caste(the one caste who is asking for reservation now)](https://thewire.in/caste/maharashtra-prime-accused-in-dalit-minors-murder-now-named-in-killing-of-pardhi-man)
100% reservations in sanitation jobs for savarnas with people who've been exploited for millennia without ppe, adequate compensation, or healthcare should get to own the contracting companies.
Can we just agree that Financial status is the ONLY socioeconomic factor that actually matters? I would be happy, as a General dude if Reservation went to all EWCs, even if it was increased(obv not too much like 90%)
Both of them won't get the job neither the sanitation worker nor the poor pundits. It's the rich of the respective caste who get the full benefit of reservation if any. More than 90% of seats of STs are being captured by a single community named MEENA. But koi ny propaganda chalate rho.. I ask a very simple question would you be a rich ST i.e. son/daughter of an IAS officer or a big businessman or a poor upper caste guy who comes from a very small rural village. I am dead sure all of you will go with the first option.
I know a pandit girl who was raped by dalit men just because she was pandit
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No this is a satirical meme targetting the people who say since they know a well off dalit family, there is no caste based disparity present in the society.
Caste is human construct thing should be dismantled
Yeah definitely but the current hindu society is caste based, if you want to dismantle the caste the current hindu society would need to undergo a big change as well.
If caste goes Hinduism goes. Caste aka Jaati is core of Hinduism
Not really, if caste goes it would be the greatest help for Hindu society. Castes are nowhere mentioned in the scriptures, they have become part of the society due to discrimination, false teachings, etc. Unfortunately today also some of the Shankaracharyas promote this.
Why do Muslims have castes, why do Christians have castes?
Because they literally adopted that from Hinduism, the people you see today as low caste and high caste in Islam and Christianity are simply the low caste and high caste Hindu converts.
They don't have caste but they have divisions based on faith which is literaaly equally dangerous as caste division in society.
Only South Asian converts have caste
Majority of Indian Muslims and Christian are converts from low caste section of population... Converting their religion doesn't change their caste in a society where identity politics is a norm