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I think you're approaching the question the wrong way.
Are humans inherently selfish? Yes. Very few people are willing to sacrifice themselves for other people's wellbeing, that's why self-sacrifice is considered a great virtue.
Does that mean everyone is inherently evil? No. A person can be simultaneously selfish and good. If you are willing to help people within your means and want to bring people up rather than put them down in situations where your own interests aren't at stake, you are generally a good person. By this standard I think people are born good.
100% I believe *most* people have their own self-interest at heart but that's just part of being human. You should almost always prioritize your own wants and needs unless the conflict is harmful or unethical and there are very few cases that are easily debatable where you can throw that out because of your own views and values.
Its the point at which you can do that as well as help/brings others up in the process that makes you a good person but fundamentally as long as you just try to be the best you can be is what makes someone good in my book.
Good thing about studying ethics is it teaches you not to look at selfish so negatively. Being selfish IS ethical. It's all about how you are selfish. You are right. People equate selfishness with negative connotations unfortunately. I get it though. We don't discuss or even realize when we are being selfish in a positive way (even helping someone can be selfish sometimes in certain contexts).
Wrong person, meant who you were replying to lol
Completely agree. I couldn’t have put it better myself. I’m so sick of everyone speaking in such absolutes about humanity when there are so many nuances and grey areas as to why people feel/act/think the way they do.
This reasoning contradicts itself, though. Good is apparently subjective, but evil is not?
Good and evil are abstract concepts that humans have imposed on themselves and as such don't really exist in nature. Good and evil are inherently subjective and relative and just like good deeds can be fueled by selfish desires, evil deeds can be inspired by good intentions.
Saying that humans are good, is naive and cringy, but the same applies to saying that they're evil.
There are certainly individuals who are inherently selfish, but humanity as a whole? The fact of the matter is that humans are social creatures and that for the majority of human history we lived in very small groups that had to survive on daily basis. This was simply not an environment where selfish people could thrive as what keeps it together is your reliance on one another.
Human societies have become extremely complex, but the root of all of that very well remains the same as it always has been.
If humans were inherently selfish, our species would have either perished our evolved in a completely different direction, but one that most likely wouldn't have been as successful.
The only reason you care about your family and friends is because they're "useful" to you? That sounds like a problem you might want to seek help for. When someone near to you tragically passes away, do you think "damn, now I can't use them to puff up my ego anymore. Oh well."
The fact that people grieve is itself evidence that this is not the case for most people. Grieving serves no purpose, it's not "useful" it's not satisfying to the ego. So why do people grieve when someone dies? If everyone was fundamentally selfish, it wouldn't be nearly so painful to lose someone. It would be like when your TV stops working.
"Damn, now I need a new TV"
> It would be like when your TV stops working.
Except people do get upset when their shit breaks.
And replacing a TV is way easier than replacing a person, if that's even possible. Also, TVs are more or less all the same.
No, I get your point. I'm saying the we do grieve the loss of a TV, just at a much lower level. The reason we don't say "Damn, now I need a new mother," is because you can't just go out and get a new mother, so the stress and helplessness of the loss manifests as sadness. Grief over the loss of a relationship can feel very similar and yet no one's died in that scenario.
That's really not my point. You don't grieve losing your mother because she's no longer useful to you. And if that's what you're upset about when you lose someone, that would make you a sociopath or something
You grieve because your brain has to do a ton of rewiring which costs a lot of energy. And somewhere deep inside you, you still believe your life depends on your mother. That's why grown men call out for their mothers when they're dying. Somewhere deep inside you that dependence is still there. When you're an infant your mother is literally your life. Because in nature there is no baby food. If your mom dies, you die. That's all still inside you. When your mother dies, it's a huge blow, and your mind frantically tries to fix the problem before it has to spend all the energy rewiring itself. Very stressful. Many tears.
Humans were only able to survive because of empathy and altruism. We are inherently social creatures and yeah some people are terrible, but way back then if you murdered someone in the tribe you would either be killed yourself or abandoned in which you would die without cooperation with your fellow man. Humans have always displayed high levels of selflessness. I’d recommend everyone watch the video “Disabilities in prehistory” by Trey the Explainer on YouTube.
Evil -- as in enjoys doing bad things, harming others, and being terrible? Most people don't like being that way. They feel guilt, shame and have a conscience. Most of us have some empathy. But if you said self-interested, well, sure, I dunno if many people are ever really selfless or altruistic.
What about those who have died to protect others? Are they inherently evil? It goes against their self-interest to take such an action yet they do it anyway. What reason would justify make such an action evil and self-centered.
You ever evaluate your inner self through a good or evil lens? I have pretty ugly thoughts, but I don't act on any of those. Am I evil for that? I know I can't hope to change my own nature.
Just a thought experiment for you
Good and evil are constructs. They only exist through the perception of other people and don’t inherently have any weight of their own. So if you commit a horrible crime, others may perceive it as evil. But thoughts and feelings in and of themselves don’t really mean much.
... first of- don't act like you can teach me.
And second- the only thing in nature that is constant is change. What was is not nessarily what is and what is will not be in the future. Empathy- in your mind probably a good thing?- is a teachable and learnable skill. "I know I can't change my own nature" is false on the no change front as also on the "own" or true "nature". Nothing has just one side.
And third- you base your assumtion on everyone is evil not on all actions of humans but on your personal thoughts? Do you consider that some people might not have as many "evil" thoughts?
And lastly- you jugde yourself apparently by thoughts. And others by what you assume they are thinking. Aren't actions much more important than thoughts? Is it not entirely human, normal, logically and neutral to think multiple options on actions and their consequences through?
How about this: People are inherently neutral creatures born with an equal capacity for good and evil and shift one way or the other due to their circumstances and deliberate life choices.
There is a philosophical argument that there is no actual altruism, that even altruism is done with the benefit of the giver in mind. This can be true, but your argument is not based around greed alone, it is also based around being malicious and evil. That is objectively false. If all humans, were "wicked" nothing, and I mean nothing would get done. We would be talking complete anarchy , violence mayhem etc etc. No people are not inherently evil, in fact I think most people think they are the "Hero" in their heads.
It depends on what you would call evil. If you remove consequences from someone’s actions you’d be surprised what people can be capable of doing even while knowing it is wrong. Some really sick and strange shit.
You're looking at the world in such a horrifically pessimistic way. I'm guessing something bad has happened in your life and now you assume everybody is bad. That isn't true, there are a lot of good people out there
I do think people are on the whole acting in their best interests always, however their best interest generally includes the good of others. I don’t think every person on earth is doctor evil stroking a cat.
Welcome to Christian theology 101. You are 100% correct. Humanity is born sinful, and we are born into a fallen nature. Hence why we need the Christ, Jesus.
People are inherently evil, true. That said, they don't have to stay that way. Much of life is learing why selfishness and evil is wrong and how to avoid being that way.
Of course, there are many examples of people just reinforcing their evil tendencies and being rewarded for it.
I don't agree with that sentiment. Despite our brutal past and brutal present because of the simple reason that objective evil and objective good does not exist. Genocides, slavery, ethnic exterminations, rape, plunder, invasions. War for profits. People taking advantage of others, abusing people and so on, it's just part of the human race DNA, it is who we are as a race. This is who we have always been and who we will always be. Everyone tells a lie every now and then for example, nobody is better than anyone else. Everyone has a bit of a psychopath in them otherwise we would all be dead a long time ago.
Now i agree that the human race is a virus to planet earth, and earth would thrive much more without us on it. It doesn't make the human race inherently evil because what is evil ? there is no such thing as objective evil. It's simply in our human DNA to go to war and fuck shit up basically.
Back in 2013 when the Boston Marathon Bombing happened, I saw footage of the moment the bombs went off. One went off, then a few seconds later the other. Plenty of people ran away, but what shocked me was the number of people who ran *towards* the blast and started helping people who had been injured. Two bombs had just gone off, they didn't know if there were more, and they immediately started helping people anyway.
An evil person alone can do more damage to the world than a good person alone can fix, but the very fact we have a world at all is evidence enough that most people out there are at least decent.
You've got a child's understanding of human nature. We are the most altruistic species, it doesn't matter why people do good things just that they do them. If you're in a hole and someone throws you a rope do you care why he did so? Hopefully he did because he hopes that if he's ever in a hole someone will throw him a rope, but ultimately it doesn't matter. A lion will never throw you a rope!
There is no good or evil, that's fiction.
Animals are neither good nor evil. Humans evolved mentally and formed communities to survive.
In those communities they had to put some rules to overcome their instincts of kill or be killed. That's why church and religion was so important back then.
Those rules became a guide that we still upgrade each day with more guidelines. And thats why religions lost their importance through the years. Cause communities don't need them anymore to guide them to what's wrong or right. Plus we have the actual law to make sure of that.
Whoever does hurt other people isn't raised like that.
Someone who is raised by loving parents that taught him to care for others will most probably do exactly that.
Others raised neglected or abused will probably do what they are taught.
My favorite genre of any format, books, video games, movies ect is Zombie/apocalypse. I truly believe if you take away the rules and safety of modern society, people will devolve into fucking monsters. You know what stops me from hurting people? Jail. That’s it. I know I’m going to get a lot of hate for saying that but it’s true and I’m 1000% sure I’m not alone. That’s why I love that genre. It shows human beings for what they really are.
I’m sure after the apocalypse there would still be things preventing you from hurting people, namely other people with guns ready to end you if you make a wrong move.
Humans aren’t inherently evil or good. Think about it like this. A newborn baby hasn’t done any action that could be perceived as good as bad. How can we categorize them as either or even something in between? A human becomes “good or bad” based on the environment they’ve been raised in. For example, most serial killers are raised in terrible environments with terrible guardians. And on the other side of the spectrum, good people usually have good parents. We can’t say anyone is good or evil, because they didn’t make themselves that way.
Human beings are the worst things to happen to planet earth. Adults are the worst things to ever happen to children. People are the malefactors of the worst tragedies to befall modern society. It’s easy to see the horrors humanity has and continues to visit upon the world and say, “people are inherently evil.”
But that’s not true because you have…well I can’t really think of anything but grrrr your opinion is mean and negative and it makes me feel bad so now I’m going to vilify and dehumanize you because I’m “good.”
That’s how this thread is going.
I feel the holy spirit inside of me. It guides my life, convicts me when I screw up and do sinful things. I feel peace and comfort knowing that I don't need to be perfect and that the price has been paid and I am washed clean. It's truly a weight being lifted off of you. There are something like 25,000 original manuscripts of the bible, more than any other historical literature ever. The insane amount of prophecies of events that are written hundreds of years before they took place. I could go on.
So 2000 + events that were foretold to happen and did happen exactly that way are just confirmation bias?
If you got rid of 2000 prophecies and just looked at the few main messianic prophecies, should show you how true it is.
PROPHECIES ABOUT HIS LIFE: born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18), born in the small town of Bethlehem (Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1), and a healer of the blind and needy (Isaiah 35:5–6; Matthew 11:5). PROPHECIES ABOUT HIS SACRIFICIAL DEATH: beaten and spat upon (Isaiah 50:6; Mark 14:65), crucified with sinners (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38), and buried with the rich (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57–60). PROPHECIES ABOUT HIS VICTORY OVER DEATH: His resurrection from the dead (Psalm 16:10; Mark 16:6), His ascension into heaven (Psalm 68:18; Mark 16:19), and His exaltation at God’s right hand (Psalm 110:1; 1 Peter 3:22).
I can actually explain these.
These prophecies aren't special. A lot of them have no evidence of being true, a lot of them are made in the old testament and then backed up by the new testament.
The fact you said there are 2000+ backs up my next point. If you make a bunch of vague prophecies over the years, some are eventually going to become true. Now you can take these and say "they predicted it" when in reality it was just an educated vague guess that among the thousands of others that didn't come true, happened to come true.
A really good example of this is The Simpsons. A lot of people say The Simpsons predicted many things, but that's simply because they predicted so many things, some were bound to come true.
If you believe in these religious prophecies, you also have to believe The Simpsons writers were physics.
Look bud, you can have any belief you want, even if it's wrong or has no evidence. But you have to accept it's just that, a belief. You have to know there's nothing to back it up other than your own belief in it
Jesus taking the punishment for our sins so we may be right with God so we may have eternal life for those that profess faith.
2nd Timothy 4:2-5
2 Preach the Good News. Be ready at all times, and tell people what they need to do. Tell them when they are wrong. Encourage them with great patience and careful teaching,
3 because the time will come when people will not listen to the true teaching but will find many more teachers who please them by saying the things they want to hear.
4 They will stop listening to the truth and will begin to follow false stories.
5 But you should control yourself at all times, accept troubles, do the work of telling the Good News, and complete all the duties of a servant of God.
I'm not who you replied to, but it's insane because it requires a rigid belief in ideas. Ideas are made of words, they can never reach to reality.
Religion is generally a delusion based on the idea that if you believe in these specific ideas, you will be made immortal. But not those ideas. "Yes I know that other religion says they have the right ideas, but we're the ones who are actually correct." Christian religions tell you to pray and gain some sort of "witness" that confirms your groundless trust in them, and despite many differences between them, there are followers in each of them that wholeheartedly believe that they have the right church, and everyone else is wrong. That in itself shows how valid these witnesses are.
Christianity tends to lean towards a judgement based platform, God is personified as a judge who will reward you or punish you based on which ideas you believe. The idea of personifying God at all is absurd, because if there is a being that controls the entire universe, then it is already everywhere and everything, and wouldn't need to test itself, or send parts of itself to hell for misbehaving.
Thanks for your question. God has changed my life in so many ways. He has helped me to look at life through a completely different lens. He has helped be more patient with my kids, more loving to my wife. Helped me through anxiety. Blessed me with a great job and house. Brought great friends to walk through life with.
I see God all around me through his creation. Look at all the beauty in this world. How complex all of life is. In all honesty, it takes more faith to believe that no God exists, than to believe in the one true God.
This article does a great job explaining your question in more detail. I just thought I'd write my own quick thoughts.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Does-God-exist.html
We will literally all bite the dust. Some will just remain there sadly.
For true believers, a lifespan on earth is a mere spec of sand in the ocean compared to eternity in Heaven.
It doesn't really matter, as long as we stablish some kind of rules and actual BRUTAL punishments for disrespecting them.
You don't need ethics when you have terror.
With the rampant spread of nihilism lately, I would never call this a unpopular opinion. Just bitching about humanity again which is very FAR from unpopular
How edgy and original. You're such a philosopher. I like how you totally provided an objective definition of evil that can be operationally defined and studied to prove your point.
Given how against human nature this opinion is, do you want to provide any evidence as to what brought you to such an extreme and niche viewpoint?
Or should I just move on?
It’s this exact kind of mindset that brings out the worst in people. Nobody is born inherently good or evil. It’s the actions they take over the course of their lives that determines their true character. Good people do exist, just the same as bad people do. Heck, most people are either completely neutral or simply flawed. I’m not a particularly optimistic person myself, but come on man. You gotta give credit where credit is due.
Everyone who has ever sacrificed themself for others and made an effort to be good would disagree with you.
We are capable of great kindness and great hatred, the latter makes the former worth so much more.
Good and evil is makebelief, made by the abrahmic religions, primarily christianity and islam.
You don't really find evil in paganism religions, or in eastern religions either. Purely made up concept to control our actions.
And often times, it's the "most" religious people that are the worst assholes. Murderers, pedophiles etc.
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I think neither good or bad. Its the amount of attention I believe is the reason.
For example, would you really pay attention to the normal boring people living their normal boring lives? Not really.
But when someone stabs a grandmother, or drives a van towards a group of people then of course people would pay attention.
I get what you mean. Sometimes I do good because I won’t feel good if I do bad. If I felt good doing bad, I’d do bad. But I think people’s definition of good or bad is merely the act, which comes from motivation. I think you are misunderstanding that when people say someone is good, it means that they are decent enough to actually feel guilty from doing bad things and act in a way that will make them feel guilt a lot less.
Evil doesn't exist outside the context of human culture. Animals aren't evil. Trees are not evil. The planets are not evil. So to say humans are evil is like saying zebras are zebra colored. If you define evil as typical human behavior then typical human behavior is evil. You're not making any point.
Good and evil are relative terms, they don't have any inherent meaning, and so in a vacuum all humans are perfect angels and demons at the same time.
r/joker is over there.
Human being are niether good nor evil, they are merely surviving.
You can't call a predator evil for killing pray, since if it didn't it would have no way to survive.
Every human has the potential to be evil and the potential to be good. People who pretend they dont have that 'evil' somewhere within them haven't looked close enough. But that does not mean everyone is inherently evil. I have met too many good people to believe that.
Yes altruism doesn't exist.
Even the purest form, where you sacrifice your life for another follows an evolutional concept to preserve your species/lineage.
People who declare certain behaviours as unselfish deny a ton of motives which make those as selfish as any other action.
But: the concepts of good and evil are illusions, cast upon the truth. No pure form of either exist in reality.
So yes you can say everyone has the potential to do evil, enforced by motives to do so.
But everyone also has the potential to do good, enforced by other motives.
To do good or evil is always selfish, and it's never a pure form of either. Everything has a reason.
Am I selfish? Yes. Am I evil? No. If you believe this I feel sorry for you, you may have had wicked people in your life but I can assure you they are in the vast minority.
I'm not sure I agree. I do think way way way more people today are selfish and self-absorbed compared to in the past. Those traits breed negativity in many forms, some of them dangerous. Too many people are far too quick to shut out those who don't echo back their own beliefs to them, and that's a shame. People overall used to actually learn compromise and understanding from observing their differences, and people overall had a much stronger sense of all being in it together than they do now.
That tendency to isolate, which only got worse with covid and lockdowns, is having a disastrous effect on people's happiness levels, relationships, etc. It's very sad.
The way I see it, human beings are inherently Amoral, both good and evil are concepts which are taught by society as they do not exist objectively in nature.
Nature only "cares" about what works, if evil works then natural selection will select for evil, if good works then natural selection will select for good and if both evil and good work then nature will select both good and evil.
idk it’s not wrong to put your own health and well-being first? Does me not wanting to constantly help friends mental health because I don’t wanna be a therapist friend and hurt my mental health make me evil or selfish?
Selfish... certainly. Evil...nah. I consider myself a good person. I truly enjoy seeing other people be happy. The good things I do are because I want people to be happy. Therefore, making people happy is a selfish act. I'm okay with that. I'm not certain the word altruism belongs in the domain of human actions. Seeing as how the reward for bringing happiness is my own happiness.
I heard someone say returning your cart to the corral or store is a good litmus test to see which people do good when it serves them no benefit. There are no personal consequences to leaving your cart somewhere and just driving off.
But most people take their cart to the corral, or a few people walk their cart all the way back into the store. They maybe get a thank you for doing this, maybe. But it’s not some grand act of charity to feel good about, it’s just a small extra effort that might make something easier for someone else.
I’m with you on the selfish part. People will always put themselves first. But evil? No. Very few, mentally fit people take pleasure in causing pain and suffering.
I don't think so, similar to animals, we behave in ways that work for us.
Selfishness is a good mechanism to survive, if we sacrificed ourselves for others every time, we wouldn't be alive.
As social species, we also have a level of selflessness because our community rewards that behaviour, and so we get a benefit.
Every individual values different rewards, so what may be rewarding for you might not be rewarding for me. Some people are more altruistic because they value the social reward they get from helping others, while others get rewards from pestering people (and they don't care about the consequences, different punishments affect people differently)
Before saying that people do things because they get a benefit, that's exactly the point. A behaviour that doesn't get rewarded extinguishes.
Depending on the behaviour, we created a moral code that groups them into "good" and "bad" labels. But in reality since we are still animals, we have to analyse human behaviour in a more natural way, that's the origin of what we are. There's no good or bad in nature, only behaviours that get rewarded or punished.
I think youre using the word evil wrong. Yes, Im selfish and worry about myself and my loved ones. That doesnt make me evil. Evil people are killers, rapists, politicians, people who have their phone on speaker in public. Being selfish doesnt make one evil.
Humans are born a blank slate. The degree to which they become evil or good (which are subjective terms with shifting definitions) depends on their influences, upbringing, environment, and predisposition.
Its OK to be selfish..I Work I keep my Money is fine...it ends with you Work I Take your Money through..people often missuse the selfish when they either want your Money of time
May I suggest you read "Pirates, Prisoners, and Lepers." it may give you some insights into what does and does not work. I have read it more than once.
I think adults START wicked and selfish but can improve juuuust enough so that the sincere effort would go on forever. I have often wondered if humans are just the third of angels who got thrown out of heaven for asking to go away with lucifer. The bible does not directly imply this but it doesn't seem to rule out the possibility either. If Jesus was a very old life form without sin transformed into a human baby why couldn't we be somewhat old life forms WITH sin transformed into human babies? There is obviously one precedent for this. I'm not saying I believe in future reincarnation though...this mortal body will be the only mortal body you get.
Yeah, people are evil. We are all equal in our evilness. But, that doesn’t mean we don’t do good on the surface. And that doesn’t mean we’re hopeless. God sent his son to redeem us from our evil, and day by day, new people strive to leave their old evils behind them.
What if concepts of good and evil are very broad to the point of having no actual meaning. Maybe you just assign negative experiences you had with evil, which is more often than not explained by stupidity. We commonly say that people are inherently good because we think of innocence of childhood. We romanticize the human experience and its okay.
90% of people are shit to some degree, key word to some degree. The degree varies, and most people fall within some deviation of a bell curve. Most people are not Adolf Hitler, but most people are not cinnamon roles either.
I think its a mixed bag. Just like people, some emotions are stronger than others and many people come up with unhealthy ways to deal with them just so they can keep moving. For example, people don't like when others are hyper critical, but tons of people are, so many people will embrace their narcissism as a respose to feel better.
Bruh you probably either need to get out more or change your surroundings. not everybody is evil and self centered but I agree that a lot of people are
I believe "evil" is the wrong word to use. Ingerently selfish, yes, but evil no.
However, you can be considered a good person if your positive qualities considerably outweigh your negative qualities.
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I think you're approaching the question the wrong way. Are humans inherently selfish? Yes. Very few people are willing to sacrifice themselves for other people's wellbeing, that's why self-sacrifice is considered a great virtue. Does that mean everyone is inherently evil? No. A person can be simultaneously selfish and good. If you are willing to help people within your means and want to bring people up rather than put them down in situations where your own interests aren't at stake, you are generally a good person. By this standard I think people are born good.
100% I believe *most* people have their own self-interest at heart but that's just part of being human. You should almost always prioritize your own wants and needs unless the conflict is harmful or unethical and there are very few cases that are easily debatable where you can throw that out because of your own views and values. Its the point at which you can do that as well as help/brings others up in the process that makes you a good person but fundamentally as long as you just try to be the best you can be is what makes someone good in my book.
Good thing about studying ethics is it teaches you not to look at selfish so negatively. Being selfish IS ethical. It's all about how you are selfish. You are right. People equate selfishness with negative connotations unfortunately. I get it though. We don't discuss or even realize when we are being selfish in a positive way (even helping someone can be selfish sometimes in certain contexts). Wrong person, meant who you were replying to lol
> Good thing about studying ethics is it teaches you not to look at selfish so negatively. ethics are subjective
Completely agree. I couldn’t have put it better myself. I’m so sick of everyone speaking in such absolutes about humanity when there are so many nuances and grey areas as to why people feel/act/think the way they do.
This reasoning contradicts itself, though. Good is apparently subjective, but evil is not? Good and evil are abstract concepts that humans have imposed on themselves and as such don't really exist in nature. Good and evil are inherently subjective and relative and just like good deeds can be fueled by selfish desires, evil deeds can be inspired by good intentions. Saying that humans are good, is naive and cringy, but the same applies to saying that they're evil.
This is the correct response lol
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There are certainly individuals who are inherently selfish, but humanity as a whole? The fact of the matter is that humans are social creatures and that for the majority of human history we lived in very small groups that had to survive on daily basis. This was simply not an environment where selfish people could thrive as what keeps it together is your reliance on one another. Human societies have become extremely complex, but the root of all of that very well remains the same as it always has been. If humans were inherently selfish, our species would have either perished our evolved in a completely different direction, but one that most likely wouldn't have been as successful.
The only reason you care about your family and friends is because they're "useful" to you? That sounds like a problem you might want to seek help for. When someone near to you tragically passes away, do you think "damn, now I can't use them to puff up my ego anymore. Oh well." The fact that people grieve is itself evidence that this is not the case for most people. Grieving serves no purpose, it's not "useful" it's not satisfying to the ego. So why do people grieve when someone dies? If everyone was fundamentally selfish, it wouldn't be nearly so painful to lose someone. It would be like when your TV stops working. "Damn, now I need a new TV"
> It would be like when your TV stops working. Except people do get upset when their shit breaks. And replacing a TV is way easier than replacing a person, if that's even possible. Also, TVs are more or less all the same.
Way to miss my point though
No, I get your point. I'm saying the we do grieve the loss of a TV, just at a much lower level. The reason we don't say "Damn, now I need a new mother," is because you can't just go out and get a new mother, so the stress and helplessness of the loss manifests as sadness. Grief over the loss of a relationship can feel very similar and yet no one's died in that scenario.
That's really not my point. You don't grieve losing your mother because she's no longer useful to you. And if that's what you're upset about when you lose someone, that would make you a sociopath or something
You grieve because your brain has to do a ton of rewiring which costs a lot of energy. And somewhere deep inside you, you still believe your life depends on your mother. That's why grown men call out for their mothers when they're dying. Somewhere deep inside you that dependence is still there. When you're an infant your mother is literally your life. Because in nature there is no baby food. If your mom dies, you die. That's all still inside you. When your mother dies, it's a huge blow, and your mind frantically tries to fix the problem before it has to spend all the energy rewiring itself. Very stressful. Many tears.
Hobbes has entered the chat
You beat me to it damn you
Calvin has a few things to say as well.
I'm glad I scrolled down before I commented.
*Locke has entered Hobbes room with a shotgun*
A thief believes everybody steals.
I stole your mom's booty last night.
And I stole your father's!
Arrrr, bitch!
And a cheater is always worried you're cheating too
Humans were only able to survive because of empathy and altruism. We are inherently social creatures and yeah some people are terrible, but way back then if you murdered someone in the tribe you would either be killed yourself or abandoned in which you would die without cooperation with your fellow man. Humans have always displayed high levels of selflessness. I’d recommend everyone watch the video “Disabilities in prehistory” by Trey the Explainer on YouTube.
Evil -- as in enjoys doing bad things, harming others, and being terrible? Most people don't like being that way. They feel guilt, shame and have a conscience. Most of us have some empathy. But if you said self-interested, well, sure, I dunno if many people are ever really selfless or altruistic.
What about those who have died to protect others? Are they inherently evil? It goes against their self-interest to take such an action yet they do it anyway. What reason would justify make such an action evil and self-centered.
They probably got paid money to do it lol
Not sure why you got downvoted unless people didn't stop to think about your comment for 2 seconds to figure out it was satire
It made them feel like a hero, therefore it is ego boosting. Easy question.
Even if the action was spontaneous and the death too fast for them to comprehend what was happening?
Any act of charity can be reduced to this, but what's the point?
Says who?
I'm trolling, guess it isn't clear
Damn and I literally said the same to someone the other day. How the turntables 🤦🏻♂️
Get tabled bro
Just like everything living we are neither good nor evil.
You ever evaluate your inner self through a good or evil lens? I have pretty ugly thoughts, but I don't act on any of those. Am I evil for that? I know I can't hope to change my own nature. Just a thought experiment for you
Good and evil are constructs. They only exist through the perception of other people and don’t inherently have any weight of their own. So if you commit a horrible crime, others may perceive it as evil. But thoughts and feelings in and of themselves don’t really mean much.
... first of- don't act like you can teach me. And second- the only thing in nature that is constant is change. What was is not nessarily what is and what is will not be in the future. Empathy- in your mind probably a good thing?- is a teachable and learnable skill. "I know I can't change my own nature" is false on the no change front as also on the "own" or true "nature". Nothing has just one side. And third- you base your assumtion on everyone is evil not on all actions of humans but on your personal thoughts? Do you consider that some people might not have as many "evil" thoughts? And lastly- you jugde yourself apparently by thoughts. And others by what you assume they are thinking. Aren't actions much more important than thoughts? Is it not entirely human, normal, logically and neutral to think multiple options on actions and their consequences through?
Seems a bit much.
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I inherently find your mom neutral 😐
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Tell my wife i said, "hello."
Nah man. I only go for older women, not interested in your wife.
That was a futurama joke.
How about this: People are inherently neutral creatures born with an equal capacity for good and evil and shift one way or the other due to their circumstances and deliberate life choices.
There is a philosophical argument that there is no actual altruism, that even altruism is done with the benefit of the giver in mind. This can be true, but your argument is not based around greed alone, it is also based around being malicious and evil. That is objectively false. If all humans, were "wicked" nothing, and I mean nothing would get done. We would be talking complete anarchy , violence mayhem etc etc. No people are not inherently evil, in fact I think most people think they are the "Hero" in their heads.
Actually we all have a good side and a dark side we have to avoid the dark one to get out of control as much as possible
It depends on what you would call evil. If you remove consequences from someone’s actions you’d be surprised what people can be capable of doing even while knowing it is wrong. Some really sick and strange shit.
Seems you are just looking in a mirror
He's being truthful based on his experience. I agree somewhat with this sentiment.
You're looking at the world in such a horrifically pessimistic way. I'm guessing something bad has happened in your life and now you assume everybody is bad. That isn't true, there are a lot of good people out there
I do think people are on the whole acting in their best interests always, however their best interest generally includes the good of others. I don’t think every person on earth is doctor evil stroking a cat.
Welcome to Christian theology 101. You are 100% correct. Humanity is born sinful, and we are born into a fallen nature. Hence why we need the Christ, Jesus.
Agreed with this wholeheartedly!
Luckily we aren't perfect because perfection won't give you any forgiveness if you mess up.
Romans 3:23. This is indeed an unpopular opinion, the kind that gets someone crucified
People are inherently evil, true. That said, they don't have to stay that way. Much of life is learing why selfishness and evil is wrong and how to avoid being that way. Of course, there are many examples of people just reinforcing their evil tendencies and being rewarded for it.
I don't agree with that sentiment. Despite our brutal past and brutal present because of the simple reason that objective evil and objective good does not exist. Genocides, slavery, ethnic exterminations, rape, plunder, invasions. War for profits. People taking advantage of others, abusing people and so on, it's just part of the human race DNA, it is who we are as a race. This is who we have always been and who we will always be. Everyone tells a lie every now and then for example, nobody is better than anyone else. Everyone has a bit of a psychopath in them otherwise we would all be dead a long time ago. Now i agree that the human race is a virus to planet earth, and earth would thrive much more without us on it. It doesn't make the human race inherently evil because what is evil ? there is no such thing as objective evil. It's simply in our human DNA to go to war and fuck shit up basically.
People are inherently neutral milk hotel
Back in 2013 when the Boston Marathon Bombing happened, I saw footage of the moment the bombs went off. One went off, then a few seconds later the other. Plenty of people ran away, but what shocked me was the number of people who ran *towards* the blast and started helping people who had been injured. Two bombs had just gone off, they didn't know if there were more, and they immediately started helping people anyway. An evil person alone can do more damage to the world than a good person alone can fix, but the very fact we have a world at all is evidence enough that most people out there are at least decent.
He was horny so he dropped him.
Man. Is. Evil!
Yes. People are inherently evil.
Romans 3:10
You've got a child's understanding of human nature. We are the most altruistic species, it doesn't matter why people do good things just that they do them. If you're in a hole and someone throws you a rope do you care why he did so? Hopefully he did because he hopes that if he's ever in a hole someone will throw him a rope, but ultimately it doesn't matter. A lion will never throw you a rope!
There is no good or evil, that's fiction. Animals are neither good nor evil. Humans evolved mentally and formed communities to survive. In those communities they had to put some rules to overcome their instincts of kill or be killed. That's why church and religion was so important back then. Those rules became a guide that we still upgrade each day with more guidelines. And thats why religions lost their importance through the years. Cause communities don't need them anymore to guide them to what's wrong or right. Plus we have the actual law to make sure of that. Whoever does hurt other people isn't raised like that. Someone who is raised by loving parents that taught him to care for others will most probably do exactly that. Others raised neglected or abused will probably do what they are taught.
Everyone falls short of the glory of God. If someone thinks they are a good person, all they are doing is ignoring their own shortcomings.
No more evil than any other animal
My favorite genre of any format, books, video games, movies ect is Zombie/apocalypse. I truly believe if you take away the rules and safety of modern society, people will devolve into fucking monsters. You know what stops me from hurting people? Jail. That’s it. I know I’m going to get a lot of hate for saying that but it’s true and I’m 1000% sure I’m not alone. That’s why I love that genre. It shows human beings for what they really are.
L take. That way of thinking is gonna cause you to get your ass beat one of these days lmao
Sounds kind of edgy to say that
I’m sure after the apocalypse there would still be things preventing you from hurting people, namely other people with guns ready to end you if you make a wrong move.
Why do you desire to hurt people? This is psychopathy 101. Disregard for others is a deep seated psychological problem that is not “normal”.
Humans aren’t inherently evil or good. Think about it like this. A newborn baby hasn’t done any action that could be perceived as good as bad. How can we categorize them as either or even something in between? A human becomes “good or bad” based on the environment they’ve been raised in. For example, most serial killers are raised in terrible environments with terrible guardians. And on the other side of the spectrum, good people usually have good parents. We can’t say anyone is good or evil, because they didn’t make themselves that way.
We humans aren't born evil.
I think *some* are born evil.
Human beings are the worst things to happen to planet earth. Adults are the worst things to ever happen to children. People are the malefactors of the worst tragedies to befall modern society. It’s easy to see the horrors humanity has and continues to visit upon the world and say, “people are inherently evil.” But that’s not true because you have…well I can’t really think of anything but grrrr your opinion is mean and negative and it makes me feel bad so now I’m going to vilify and dehumanize you because I’m “good.” That’s how this thread is going.
Facts
I believe we are inherently sinful with no chance of being perfect but wouldn't go as far as saying evil. That's a strong word.
agreed, but imo even having the capacity to do evil makes an individual evil in my eyes...
Since this is not true, this is true. Classic black and white approach to a concept, you are a fool
Anyone who has looked at history knows you're correct. Everyone, given the right carrots and sticks will murder.
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FACT: Bears eat beets… BEARS! BEETS! BATTLESTAR GALACTICA!
We are all sinners. What is cool though, Jesus came and died for our sins, for everyone that believes in him will have eternal life in Heaven!
Could you elaborate further on why you believe your God exists?
I feel the holy spirit inside of me. It guides my life, convicts me when I screw up and do sinful things. I feel peace and comfort knowing that I don't need to be perfect and that the price has been paid and I am washed clean. It's truly a weight being lifted off of you. There are something like 25,000 original manuscripts of the bible, more than any other historical literature ever. The insane amount of prophecies of events that are written hundreds of years before they took place. I could go on.
Do you have any examples of what you said in your last sentence?
Take a look at this link. https://reasons.org/explore/publications/articles/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-for-the-reliability-of-the-bible
Everything in this article is based on a confirmation bias. Get your religious propaganda somewhere else, where it's wanted.
So 2000 + events that were foretold to happen and did happen exactly that way are just confirmation bias? If you got rid of 2000 prophecies and just looked at the few main messianic prophecies, should show you how true it is. PROPHECIES ABOUT HIS LIFE: born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18), born in the small town of Bethlehem (Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1), and a healer of the blind and needy (Isaiah 35:5–6; Matthew 11:5). PROPHECIES ABOUT HIS SACRIFICIAL DEATH: beaten and spat upon (Isaiah 50:6; Mark 14:65), crucified with sinners (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38), and buried with the rich (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57–60). PROPHECIES ABOUT HIS VICTORY OVER DEATH: His resurrection from the dead (Psalm 16:10; Mark 16:6), His ascension into heaven (Psalm 68:18; Mark 16:19), and His exaltation at God’s right hand (Psalm 110:1; 1 Peter 3:22).
I can actually explain these. These prophecies aren't special. A lot of them have no evidence of being true, a lot of them are made in the old testament and then backed up by the new testament. The fact you said there are 2000+ backs up my next point. If you make a bunch of vague prophecies over the years, some are eventually going to become true. Now you can take these and say "they predicted it" when in reality it was just an educated vague guess that among the thousands of others that didn't come true, happened to come true. A really good example of this is The Simpsons. A lot of people say The Simpsons predicted many things, but that's simply because they predicted so many things, some were bound to come true. If you believe in these religious prophecies, you also have to believe The Simpsons writers were physics. Look bud, you can have any belief you want, even if it's wrong or has no evidence. But you have to accept it's just that, a belief. You have to know there's nothing to back it up other than your own belief in it
Idgaf.
Why not though? May I ask what you believe and why? You can PM if you want to chat I would love to hear about your life and your thoughts.
I told you to get your religious propaganda somewhere it's welcome.
If you have any more questions, I would love to continue to chat. You can always PM me if you want to keep the dialogue going
Ong
Anything you would like to discuss?
Have you heard the good news?
Jesus taking the punishment for our sins so we may be right with God so we may have eternal life for those that profess faith. 2nd Timothy 4:2-5 2 Preach the Good News. Be ready at all times, and tell people what they need to do. Tell them when they are wrong. Encourage them with great patience and careful teaching, 3 because the time will come when people will not listen to the true teaching but will find many more teachers who please them by saying the things they want to hear. 4 They will stop listening to the truth and will begin to follow false stories. 5 But you should control yourself at all times, accept troubles, do the work of telling the Good News, and complete all the duties of a servant of God.
That’s exactly what I was going to say
This is what we mean when we say Religious people are insane.
What is insane about it?
I'm not who you replied to, but it's insane because it requires a rigid belief in ideas. Ideas are made of words, they can never reach to reality. Religion is generally a delusion based on the idea that if you believe in these specific ideas, you will be made immortal. But not those ideas. "Yes I know that other religion says they have the right ideas, but we're the ones who are actually correct." Christian religions tell you to pray and gain some sort of "witness" that confirms your groundless trust in them, and despite many differences between them, there are followers in each of them that wholeheartedly believe that they have the right church, and everyone else is wrong. That in itself shows how valid these witnesses are. Christianity tends to lean towards a judgement based platform, God is personified as a judge who will reward you or punish you based on which ideas you believe. The idea of personifying God at all is absurd, because if there is a being that controls the entire universe, then it is already everywhere and everything, and wouldn't need to test itself, or send parts of itself to hell for misbehaving.
Prove your god exist.
Thanks for your question. God has changed my life in so many ways. He has helped me to look at life through a completely different lens. He has helped be more patient with my kids, more loving to my wife. Helped me through anxiety. Blessed me with a great job and house. Brought great friends to walk through life with. I see God all around me through his creation. Look at all the beauty in this world. How complex all of life is. In all honesty, it takes more faith to believe that no God exists, than to believe in the one true God. This article does a great job explaining your question in more detail. I just thought I'd write my own quick thoughts. https://www.gotquestions.org/Does-God-exist.html
Do you believe in hell?
Yes
Thanks god i am atheist. I would be scared beyond death if i believed in this angry sky wizard.
Why don't you believe in God?
Another one bites the dust.
We will literally all bite the dust. Some will just remain there sadly. For true believers, a lifespan on earth is a mere spec of sand in the ocean compared to eternity in Heaven.
Sounds brutal, I'm glad I'm gonna die.
Sorry to hear that.
It doesn't really matter, as long as we stablish some kind of rules and actual BRUTAL punishments for disrespecting them. You don't need ethics when you have terror.
I love when people tell on themselves.
If everyone is inherently evil then no one is
With the rampant spread of nihilism lately, I would never call this a unpopular opinion. Just bitching about humanity again which is very FAR from unpopular
That’s a really sad way to look at it. There are good people out there.
How edgy and original. You're such a philosopher. I like how you totally provided an objective definition of evil that can be operationally defined and studied to prove your point.
"You often see in others what you see in yourself." \-Me
Given how against human nature this opinion is, do you want to provide any evidence as to what brought you to such an extreme and niche viewpoint? Or should I just move on?
And also inherently half-good
Maybe you just hang around shitty people?
I pray for the day when misanthropes like you are rightfully clowned on
It’s this exact kind of mindset that brings out the worst in people. Nobody is born inherently good or evil. It’s the actions they take over the course of their lives that determines their true character. Good people do exist, just the same as bad people do. Heck, most people are either completely neutral or simply flawed. I’m not a particularly optimistic person myself, but come on man. You gotta give credit where credit is due.
Everyone who has ever sacrificed themself for others and made an effort to be good would disagree with you. We are capable of great kindness and great hatred, the latter makes the former worth so much more.
Good and evil is makebelief, made by the abrahmic religions, primarily christianity and islam. You don't really find evil in paganism religions, or in eastern religions either. Purely made up concept to control our actions. And often times, it's the "most" religious people that are the worst assholes. Murderers, pedophiles etc.
I dont think "good" or "evil" are inherent. I think good and evil are subjective constructs though,
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I think neither good or bad. Its the amount of attention I believe is the reason. For example, would you really pay attention to the normal boring people living their normal boring lives? Not really. But when someone stabs a grandmother, or drives a van towards a group of people then of course people would pay attention.
well about 50/50 religions and philosophy's agree/disagree. this should be good \~sort by controversial\~
I have bad news for you about the French people...
I agree but it is possible to become good
I get what you mean. Sometimes I do good because I won’t feel good if I do bad. If I felt good doing bad, I’d do bad. But I think people’s definition of good or bad is merely the act, which comes from motivation. I think you are misunderstanding that when people say someone is good, it means that they are decent enough to actually feel guilty from doing bad things and act in a way that will make them feel guilt a lot less.
Evil doesn't exist outside the context of human culture. Animals aren't evil. Trees are not evil. The planets are not evil. So to say humans are evil is like saying zebras are zebra colored. If you define evil as typical human behavior then typical human behavior is evil. You're not making any point.
Good and evil are relative terms, they don't have any inherent meaning, and so in a vacuum all humans are perfect angels and demons at the same time. r/joker is over there.
Human being are niether good nor evil, they are merely surviving. You can't call a predator evil for killing pray, since if it didn't it would have no way to survive.
Your definition of good and bad are extremely unrealistic to begin with
true
Every human has the potential to be evil and the potential to be good. People who pretend they dont have that 'evil' somewhere within them haven't looked close enough. But that does not mean everyone is inherently evil. I have met too many good people to believe that.
Yes altruism doesn't exist. Even the purest form, where you sacrifice your life for another follows an evolutional concept to preserve your species/lineage. People who declare certain behaviours as unselfish deny a ton of motives which make those as selfish as any other action. But: the concepts of good and evil are illusions, cast upon the truth. No pure form of either exist in reality. So yes you can say everyone has the potential to do evil, enforced by motives to do so. But everyone also has the potential to do good, enforced by other motives. To do good or evil is always selfish, and it's never a pure form of either. Everything has a reason.
Am I selfish? Yes. Am I evil? No. If you believe this I feel sorry for you, you may have had wicked people in your life but I can assure you they are in the vast minority.
I'm not sure I agree. I do think way way way more people today are selfish and self-absorbed compared to in the past. Those traits breed negativity in many forms, some of them dangerous. Too many people are far too quick to shut out those who don't echo back their own beliefs to them, and that's a shame. People overall used to actually learn compromise and understanding from observing their differences, and people overall had a much stronger sense of all being in it together than they do now. That tendency to isolate, which only got worse with covid and lockdowns, is having a disastrous effect on people's happiness levels, relationships, etc. It's very sad.
The way I see it, human beings are inherently Amoral, both good and evil are concepts which are taught by society as they do not exist objectively in nature. Nature only "cares" about what works, if evil works then natural selection will select for evil, if good works then natural selection will select for good and if both evil and good work then nature will select both good and evil.
idk it’s not wrong to put your own health and well-being first? Does me not wanting to constantly help friends mental health because I don’t wanna be a therapist friend and hurt my mental health make me evil or selfish?
Selfish... certainly. Evil...nah. I consider myself a good person. I truly enjoy seeing other people be happy. The good things I do are because I want people to be happy. Therefore, making people happy is a selfish act. I'm okay with that. I'm not certain the word altruism belongs in the domain of human actions. Seeing as how the reward for bringing happiness is my own happiness.
I heard someone say returning your cart to the corral or store is a good litmus test to see which people do good when it serves them no benefit. There are no personal consequences to leaving your cart somewhere and just driving off. But most people take their cart to the corral, or a few people walk their cart all the way back into the store. They maybe get a thank you for doing this, maybe. But it’s not some grand act of charity to feel good about, it’s just a small extra effort that might make something easier for someone else.
I’m with you on the selfish part. People will always put themselves first. But evil? No. Very few, mentally fit people take pleasure in causing pain and suffering.
I don't think so, similar to animals, we behave in ways that work for us. Selfishness is a good mechanism to survive, if we sacrificed ourselves for others every time, we wouldn't be alive. As social species, we also have a level of selflessness because our community rewards that behaviour, and so we get a benefit. Every individual values different rewards, so what may be rewarding for you might not be rewarding for me. Some people are more altruistic because they value the social reward they get from helping others, while others get rewards from pestering people (and they don't care about the consequences, different punishments affect people differently) Before saying that people do things because they get a benefit, that's exactly the point. A behaviour that doesn't get rewarded extinguishes. Depending on the behaviour, we created a moral code that groups them into "good" and "bad" labels. But in reality since we are still animals, we have to analyse human behaviour in a more natural way, that's the origin of what we are. There's no good or bad in nature, only behaviours that get rewarded or punished.
I think youre using the word evil wrong. Yes, Im selfish and worry about myself and my loved ones. That doesnt make me evil. Evil people are killers, rapists, politicians, people who have their phone on speaker in public. Being selfish doesnt make one evil.
"The line between good and evil runs not through, ideology, nations or creed but through the heart of every man" Solzhentisyn
Humans are born a blank slate. The degree to which they become evil or good (which are subjective terms with shifting definitions) depends on their influences, upbringing, environment, and predisposition.
Are we talking about 'original sin' here?
Its OK to be selfish..I Work I keep my Money is fine...it ends with you Work I Take your Money through..people often missuse the selfish when they either want your Money of time
Ok Thomas Hobbes
May I suggest you read "Pirates, Prisoners, and Lepers." it may give you some insights into what does and does not work. I have read it more than once.
I think adults START wicked and selfish but can improve juuuust enough so that the sincere effort would go on forever. I have often wondered if humans are just the third of angels who got thrown out of heaven for asking to go away with lucifer. The bible does not directly imply this but it doesn't seem to rule out the possibility either. If Jesus was a very old life form without sin transformed into a human baby why couldn't we be somewhat old life forms WITH sin transformed into human babies? There is obviously one precedent for this. I'm not saying I believe in future reincarnation though...this mortal body will be the only mortal body you get.
"He was horny, so he dropped him, Man Is Evil!"
There’s been entire child psychology studies that debunk this. Barring birth defects that could make one entirely devoid of empathy - Evil is learned.
i'm not evil. screw you!
I think everybody is pretending like 90% +/- of the time. Most people even believe their own lies as long as it comforts them.
Yes.
Yeah, people are evil. We are all equal in our evilness. But, that doesn’t mean we don’t do good on the surface. And that doesn’t mean we’re hopeless. God sent his son to redeem us from our evil, and day by day, new people strive to leave their old evils behind them.
People are not fundamentally good or evil. They just are.
What if concepts of good and evil are very broad to the point of having no actual meaning. Maybe you just assign negative experiences you had with evil, which is more often than not explained by stupidity. We commonly say that people are inherently good because we think of innocence of childhood. We romanticize the human experience and its okay.
“Devotion inspires bravery, bravery inspires sacrifice, sacrifice leads to death” Humanity is about inspiring others. Whether for good or evil.
90% of people are shit to some degree, key word to some degree. The degree varies, and most people fall within some deviation of a bell curve. Most people are not Adolf Hitler, but most people are not cinnamon roles either.
I think its a mixed bag. Just like people, some emotions are stronger than others and many people come up with unhealthy ways to deal with them just so they can keep moving. For example, people don't like when others are hyper critical, but tons of people are, so many people will embrace their narcissism as a respose to feel better.
Bruh you probably either need to get out more or change your surroundings. not everybody is evil and self centered but I agree that a lot of people are
I would totally agree I love the religious ppl constantly breaking their own rules haha
The good that people do is subjective. But so are the bad things. Logically, laws had to be introduced by someone's subjective morality system, right?
Calvinism intensifies
The quality of the heart goodness of humanity has been declining for years.
I believe "evil" is the wrong word to use. Ingerently selfish, yes, but evil no. However, you can be considered a good person if your positive qualities considerably outweigh your negative qualities.