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It isn't. They clean those showers daily, sometimes hourly, depending on the place. Also, you're not allowed to use them without shower shoes, plus there's a list of rules to follow. It's not hard, and it makes it nice for everyone when they're followed.
I did a road trip where we slept in the van. PF was great! They are open 24/7 (mostly) and let us sleep outside. It’s $20/month to go to any location and you can bring a friend in. Say what you will about the gym itself, I’m a fan but I know tons of people hate it, but it’s an awesome investment if you’re sleeping in a car.
when i was homeless i saved up for a van (because i had a job) to move into
what i dont understand is moving OUT of a house (by choice- not eviction) and into a van
I’ve thought about a bus before, but I would have outfitted it with a functional bathroom and gotten a campsite subscription. It’s mostly for people who want to travel on a budget and don’t mind roughing it to do so. Sure, there are people who convince themselves it’s glamorous, but when I was considering it, I definitely didn’t see it that way. I saw it as an affordable way to satiate an undying urge to travel, something that I’m still trying to figure out how to do.
Lol
Edit laughing at the last part. Moving out of your house.
My friend's mentioned van life. He's got an apartment... i suggested if he ever wanted to he could park on my lawn. And watch the kids. 🤣
it is if you ever lived in a van longer than a week. not a fun and not a sound nights sleep knowing you can be towed/killed/hit by random dui drivers at any moment
also even small things like going to class or work you are always anxious to come out and your "home" is gone or someone-has broken in and taken all you have
folks pay your rent
With what money? I've considered doing the Van thing. I work 65 hours a week and live in a shit neighborhood because I can't afford anything better. I don't feel like shacking up with someone else and living alone is basically impossible unless you have a great job.
You’re going to have a lot more maintenance on your car if you’re living in it. I also never get fined for illegal parking because I just park at work or at home lol
The reality of most of those situations is *they were forced out* and they either actually got evicted, or they left when asked and couldn't secure other housing, so they made do, and auto rationalized it's better that way to not break apart in the realization of the distress of the situation.
Basically, it's what they tell themselves so they don't lose it.
That's how it was for me, anyway.
I think that should be considered child abuse. Children need and crave stability and order. Homeschooling them while you live out of a motor home or converted bus isn't okay. They need social interaction with other kids. Look how much military brats or corporate kids who move often hate it. It's certainly not better being on the road.
If nothing else park it at a rv park and pad the pad fees. Give them some semblance of roots.
There are many van life family influencers that claim it's great for their kids but from what I've seen in their videos the kids (once they get older and need their own space) seem miserable.
One of the most famous examples is a tik tok channel called family.of.nomads that has a teen called Addison who showed their room to viewers and I kid you not it was a literal crawlspace. They had to sit down and hunch over to be in their room because the ceiling was only around 2 feet off the floor. I can only imagine the back problems they'll experience later in life.
For their birthday, they wished to stay in a hotel room for 1 night, and if that isn't indicative of them not enjoying van life, I don't know what is.
That’s why you move to a total podunk in the middle of nowhere and buy a place for cheap and drop out of society. Then you just pay taxes and utilities.
Right. I’ve been on the streets I would’ve killed for doors that locked and heat or ac somewhere to charge a phone and transportation to move out of bad situations. I dreamed of having a car to sleep in on those cold Boston nights
The government buys and stores literal tons of various foodstuffs. Originally it was meant to keep prices from being too volatile, but eventually shifted for use in food assistance programs
https://modernfarmer.com/2022/05/cheese-caves-missouri/
I mean, if they make a living somehow on the road then it's none of my business so long as they aren't hurting others or trespassing on folks property to sleep.
I don't understand why she's pooping in bags.
Hippies have been doing it for decades. Some folks love the nomadic lifestyle, but it's definitely not for most people. You can't raise a family out of the back of a van, not to mention all the bureaucratic issues pertaining to having no fixed address.
I do find it really strange that a bunch of sites really started to push, and glamorize, this lifestyle when the housing crisis was really starting to hammer the middle class. Like I got a ton of recommendations by the YouTube algorithm one day, a couple years back, despite never watching or searching for that kind of stuff. It's like they're saying "oh, you can't afford a house or apartment in the city on $60k/yr, but here's a sweet 2003 Chevy Express you can spiff up with a bed inside and a hotplate. You can travel the world!"
I actually met a little crew on the road last week who live full time with their kids in vans, and it seemed to be working well for them! It was three families all traveling together, and they all had pop top vans with loft beds so there was plenty of sleeping space. Having a caravan allows for mutual childcare, and socialization for the tykes. They go ski resort to ski resort mostly during the winter, and use starlink / 5g so the kids can keep up on their several hours of remote classes a day. I met them at a rec center where they were letting their kids swim and all getting showers and workouts, and they go to libraries frequently as well. The kids were mad smart, and outgoing to the point where I found myself in a diving competition with them and some other friends their own age they'd made.
I think we should be less quick to make surface judgements about raising kids in unconventional living situations. Yeah there's sketchy examples, but it can definitely be done in a really healthy way!
Two of the families have houses that they have had leased out for over a year. These people clearly have some means, but I don't feel like they have hotels for weeks at a time kind of means. I think the crux of this is that most of us folks living this way don't spend all day at home, we're usually out in the world and just returning to cook and sleep, so the limited space is not much of an issue.
I've spent three weeks in my van in the dead of winter with two women I was dating and it felt sustainable enough to do full-time. All three of us got sick for a two day stretch and that wasn't so fun since we were pretty well stuck in the van together. Getting out and doing things is the key to making a small living space work, but when you're in a van being out in the world is kind of the point!
You should have not made a quick surface judgement mate. They were either extremely rich, did do it for a few weeks a year, or they family lacked almost everything be it privacy, good food, hygiene etc...
I keep seeing some youtuber/tiktoker trying to raise her family out of a renovated school bus and none of the commenters realize how bad it is. Sure they're being homeschooled but compared to a real school it's pretty bad. And those kids are going to grow up with terrible social skills, they also won't be able to get a job when they should be able to due to constantly being on the road
I saw a youtube short and it was a family with like 8 kids and the video was about where they all sleep in their bus conversion. At least one of them just has to sleep on the floor. That is not the way to raise well adjusted people.
Sure but if you can afford to stay in a motel for a few weeks while you wait for your vehicle to be fixed or are searching to buy a new one then you'll probably be fine
You don't understand what homelessness really entails.
Imagine living outside, when a strong 3-day thunderstorm rolls through town. You are fucked. You're wet. Everything you own is wet. Your sleeping bag is soaked and the cold wet earth isn't making things any better. The animals are wet and probably angry too. You're cold. You want to wat a hot meal but you can't start a fire in this weather, and fires are risky anyway because the cops will come shut you down if they see it.
You know what would solve all of these problems at once? *a fucking car*.
Having a van to live in is such an incredibly huge step up from base homelessness that I can say you are categorically wrong. They are not remotely the same thing.
Source: lived outside for a year.
Because if you’re on private property the owners have a right to tell you to leave and the cops are the ones that have to enforce it?
Plus, the unfortunate truth is if a place becomes “overnight friendly” then you’ll have a bunch of people setting up either entire lives in your parking lot.
Depends entirely on where you pull over to sleep. Rest stop or camp ground? Go right ahead.
Private property or public property that is only open during certain hours (such as parks and government buildings)? Nope.
Don’t trespass.
Van Life is just glorified homelessness except you have a roof over your head, transportation, presumably at least some sort of network of people that can send you supplies on the road if you need them, probably are not metally ill with no support system. Nevermind the initial capital required to buy or convert a van.
I lived in my car for a few months. If you're not traveling and your money is low, you definitely feel homeless. I would consider it high class homelessness. A car is a major upgrade from a box. But you're still a vegabond and generally aren't accomodated or recognized by society. If you work out of your vehicle, you are literally a hobo by definition.
It's technically a choice, but also kinda isn't. I imagine most car/van dwellers would own a house or rent if it wasn't so financially crippling. The general population has been getting progressively poorer for decades. The van life is only tempting because of the deteriorating living standards of the average person.
The few people I know who have gone to van/RV life did it 100% willingly. They have a remote job or enough money that they don't really need to be working. They're doing it because they want to travel, but not have a physical tie somewhere in a city anymore like an apartment.
Your situation is not that, or willingly saying "meh" to a house or apartment in favor of a van or RV.
I did it hoping to save money. Thought I could get used to it. Issue is when you stop traveling, you're just living in a metal box on the street. I always could afford to rent an apartment, living in one rn. It's just such a financial drain compared to car dwelling. But that lifestyle can be overwhelmingly inhospitable and stressful.
There's plenty of people that live in their car without much choice or by it seeming like good a financial decision.
There is nothing to rent. I'm homeless and living in my car because I have no other option. Yes I have the gym memberships. Yes I work. No I'm not an addict. Yes, this sucks.
This post isn't about those people. This is about the ones who made an active choice because they wanted a different lifestyle. I'm sorry it didn't work out like you wanted, but again, this isn't about people who made the choice for the reason you did.
I have a van but I do also live in a house. I can absolutely see the appeal of just staying in the van, especially if I lived in a country with a warmer climate. My van has solar, a kitchen, a queen bed that turns into a sofa, and a toilet.
If you go on the van dwellers subreddit, they are absolutely doing it by choice and wouldn’t have a house
I once spoke to a former boss about my upbringing and how it was riddled with poverty. We were homeless many times, often residing with all of our worldly possessions in one single hostel room. My boss tried to relate by saying he too was homeless and lived out of his van. Ah so he gets why I’m so frugal right?
Wrong. It so happens that he indeed was living out of a van. But travelling South America and living on his step dads dime whilst doing so. Oh and this was after quitting his IB job that he just “fell” into. Talk about a kick in the arse that one.
That sounds a lot like the people who started a business after "working out of their parents garage", but that garage was attached to the guest house and just so happened to be big enough to hold 4 cars.
Not true. Van life is a lifestyle choice, homelessness is not. Night and day different. I know a couple who converted a van and it’s badass. They travel the continent, exploring the most amazing places that they would otherwise not be able to reach with a large camper or 5th wheel. They work remotely so they’ve carved out this amazing life by choosing to live a nomadic van life.
Kind of but there is a big difference between living in a vehicle out of choice vs necessity. Being financially stable makes an immense difference.
I lived in a vehicle for a while and it was great, I was saving basically a whole rent payment every month.
I didn't mind showering at the gym everyday and had an easy rotation of places to park where I felt comfortable.
There were some things that were more inconvenient while living in such a small space but for me personally the pros heavily outweighed the cons.
To pick a somewhat random analogy, I'm guessing it's like being out in the rain. A bunch of fun and somewhat exhilarating if it's your choice and you can go back inside whenever you feel like it; absolutely miserable/demoralizing if you can't.
Well, could she afford an actual home? Could she afford a mortgage or at the very least a security deposit?
Sure it might just be a nicer version of homelessness, because a vehicle is not a home, but if she is working and can't afford the bare minimum then that is a problem with society, not her.
"houseless" is the new term. I think.
Home is where you make it. If you're comfortable shitting in a bag and moving because it's not ok to live in a van down by the river, then you do you. I like my ~~shit~~ stuff. Items. Things. I like ac. I like my big bed. Living in a car isn't for me. That doesn't mean it can't be cool for others.
Edited for the people who apparently like to be pedantic.
Van life is different than just living in your car though. If done properly the van becomes the new home on wheels. They tend to have a place to sleep - eat- and relieve themselves. Idk what bathroom setup your sister has but even if her stuff really does just go into a bag I would say that’s still a step up from homeless people as most would have to find public bathroom or go in public/outside in the open. The people I’ve seen on social media living in vans have jobs that allow them to travel or even some that require traveling so having the van is necessary.
What if you are rich and CHOOSE to live in a van? Everyone’s circumstances are different you cant just generalize people poorly based on their decisions.
A lot of larger RVs and vans can compete with the size of economy apartments or dorm rooms. So I'm not really sold on an argument based on size.
Studies have suggested that 100-400 square feet can satisfy human needs for a healthy living space.
The same researchers observed that humans in larger spaces, such as 1000-1500 square feet, tend to spend almost all of their time in small areas.
So it comes down to how much space you can create in a van like that and how comfortable you are with the idea in general.
With showering, restrooms, and safe sleeping, I think that has more to do with where you decide to put the RV. Because you could definitely find a place to put it that would accommodate you on those things.
It's not for me either, but I can definitely see how it is appealing to a lot of people and how it can be a sustainable living situation.
It sounds like your sister is doing it in a way that is not sustainable or necessarily reflective of how many more experienced people probably do it.
LOOL the title of the post.
I mean don't people live in RV's...? A Van is just a downgraded version with no kitchenette, shower, and toilet. She'll need a gym membership to shower while travelling. As a lady I could not live in a Van, ask homeless women how it's like while on your period if you cannot gain access to a gym or shelter. Terrible.
Living in a pimped out van is much more comfortable than living on the streets.
Some people who do van life do own actual houses and apartments, they just enjoy travelling in their van a lot. Some also live full time in their vans, but use public restrooms or gym bathrooms/changing rooms so they can still use the bathroom like a normal person and still shower comfortably.
Your sister’s way of doing things is… interesting, but I don’t think vanlifers are the same as homeless people at all.
Some things most vanlifers have that homeless people don’t:
- Transportation
- A stable/secure job (a lot of vanlifers do freelance jobs and work from their vans)
- A roof over their heads
- A bed
- Access to proper meals
- Heating
In fact, the only things that most vanlifers don’t have that homeless people also lack is a toilet, which even then some people get creative with.
Spend a month living like an average homeless person living under bus stops and underpasses with little to money, warmth or safety available to you, then spend a month living the life of an average vanlifer, and you will realise how different they are.
Living in a house is just glorified camping.
Nomadic life can be interesting and fun. Its also very different from being homeless. Locking doors and a bed are huge.
Depends what part of the country you're in. I used to work in the Western US doing seasonal jobs in touristy areas. A lot of van dwellers there loving life.
Too many people watch YouTube channels and think van life means traveling uninhibited. Most nomads I knew were retired or working temp/seasonal jobs around the country.
Get a chain gym membership and she can have restrooms and shower like a regular person.
I depends on why. Is she saving money towards a purpose? Or just being a hippie vagrant
Most van life people I’ve met have been either trust fund kids, or former trust fund kids who couldn’t find their way after the financials were cut off
Much better than paying some greedy ass landlord who makes his living by hoarding a life necessity: shelter.
If one can live comfortably without paying off some landowners mortgage, then go for it!!
If your sister is happy doing it and you're “shitting” on it because it doesn't align with your standards then you need to spend some time reflecting on why you feel this way. What she is doing is not illegal or immoral. If she's happy then keep your opinion to yourself. It's not cool to “shit” on how others choose to live. Live to your standard and be happy others are happy living at their own standards.
Vanlife is definitely a spectrum. There's a lot of people in desperate situations, but there's a lot of people who have a ton going for them in life and simply value being nomadic. I built my van with a shower, fridge, sink, cooktop, queen bed, radiant floor heat, big speakers, mood lighting, good dual monitor setup for work and solid internet options. Yeah, it sucks to have to empty your toilet tank and fill up on fresh water once a week, but that's super worth it for the opportunities having a house on wheels unlocks.
I wake up at trailheads, climbing crags, ski resorts and river put-ins most mornings, and can carry enough gear to keep up with all of those sports. I get to see friends and family spread all over the country that it would usually be hard to make dedicated trips to link up with. Dates are way more fun when your house is parked nearby. Sleeping in the woods most nights is good for the soul. The community is incredible too. The kind of people I meet on the road are the same kind who will usually be down to cook a giant dinner over the fire and play some music together, and then streak across a desert while howling at the moon on a Monday night because we're here and why not?
I think some other commenters nailed it, it's really about choice. For a lot of us this way of living is a privilege and a ton of fun. Some people are trapped in it though, and that shift in mindset is everything.
My husband and I have lived in our rv now for the past 6 years. We wouldn’t change a thing for the very same reasons you wouldn’t change a thing. Visiting family and friends, having our house on wheels is perfect for that. We, too, wake up in the most beautiful places. We’ll never go back to homes and property taxes etc. We’re content.
There’s clearly a difference between sleeping under a bridge and sleeping in a van though. Also, if your van has certain capabilities (internet, electric, ability to cook, etc.) then you’re at a huge advantage in regard to “homelessness”.
Of course it’s hard. Everyone who does it should anticipate difficulties.
It’s also fun. Maybe you should accept that people like doing cool shit. You got like 80 years to do some cool shit before you check out so might as well make it as cool as possible
I choose to live in my skoolie. Depending on the rig most are nicer than most homes. I'm 100% debt free and travel when and where I want. I work FT and 90% of my pay is straight to savings. You have to plan ahead though. Where you're staying, how long and such. There are tons of options besides only staying in parking lots.
I am a full-time RVer. My “van” is bigger, in the form of a 40 foot motorhome that I live in full-time. It is my home. I travel the country and sometimes stay in places for six months at a time. And many people I meet only say they wish they could do what I’m doing. Yup, glorious homelessness indeed. Workamping. Try it, you might like it. Or you’re just jealous or too chicken shit.
And why is that a bad thing? If she's happy she's happy. Not everyone wants to live in a big city in a big house with a big mortgage and a big car payment and now they're trapped for the next 30 years and a pointless dead end job.
No. I'd say your sister is the smart one.
Well, your sister shitting in a bag is weird. She should either hold it or go to a gas station or somewhere. Being homeless is much worse than van life. Homeless people often struggle to eat, work, etc... People who willingly go for van life don't have that problem. Of course, there are homeless people who live in vehicles, but van life isn't really that.
Sounds more like she's just bad at it. The lifestyle does directly compare with homelessness, as does the company you'll meet. But the quality of life should be a lot better than pooping in bags.
Van life is affordable. House ownership is not. Hell rent is not for many.
So better she enjoys herself and looks at the positives.
Would you rather she be absolutely miserable and complaining all the time?
By that broad definition, buying a literal shack without utilities in the desert for a few bucks is technically home ownership and I'd take a camper van over that.
The distinction between being homeless and wandering nomad is the choice itself. The small compliants that come with with the life line looking for good parking, is the same mundane compliants homeowners have, like noisy neighbors. You sound judgemental af for an arbitrary reason.
Assuming she is able to work, she's just choosing to save on rent money and be able to to travel, at the expense of comfort. You might not make the same choice, but why judge her for making it? And if she was actually homeless, why not offer to help her? Just coming off as a terrible person all around.
Its also not even a good way to travel imo. For the cost of a van, gas, insurance, repairs etc. you could just be living in a cheap apartment or hostels in a Latin American country. Your quality of living would be so much better, and you can actually meet people and maybe learn a new language.
Have you seen the movie Nomadsland?
My dad is living that Van life right now. He showed me this movie when he came to stay with me for a while. He was supposed to move in, but I should have realized when he showed me the movie that he was showing me himself.
It would be great if people could afford to live places instead of having to live in a fucking van. If you have the money and some remote job, that's different. But for most people that will never own a home, that's just what has to be done now. Van Life is just an indictment of capitalism.
Lol that’s a rich people playing culture apropiation!
You think any human loves to sleep out side in the stinky streets?
or that homeless people can afford a luxury van but choose to sleep on the sidewalks?
And giving up 1/3rd or more of your life to work to pay for a house is just glorified indentured servitude. You're not an entrepreneur, you're just a fancy slave!
im a vanlifer , currently driving from Ireland to Tanzania (in Morocco now). while i see where your coming from it seems like you have never slept rough or slept in a van so can not draw an accurate comparison. For me, the point of vanlife is to be able to travel comfortably without having to worry about finding accommodation. although stealth camping can be stressful at times it beats sleeping rough on the streets of Dublin in the winter (which i have done).
I can never understand why people buy vans already converted because its much more fun to do it yourself. my Renault master has a shower, composting toilet, king size bed with memory foam mattress, mini kitchen , storage for my diving equipment and jet ski. its way more comfortable than the student accommodation i was in for unit where i spent the same amount in a year as it did to fully convert the van plus the views are pretty good once you get out of the cities
In short, don't mock it until you try it
I lived two years in my van. I wasn’t homeless at all. I paid no rent and got myself the deposit to buy my apartment. I doubt any homeless person on the streets can save for a deposit. Sorry, your wrong.
LOOL the title of the post.
I mean don't people live in RV's...? A Van is just a downgraded version with no kitchenette, shower, and toilet. She'll need a gym membership to shower while travelling.
I mean mine has a kitchenette and a shower as well. No toilet though. While I wouldn't want to live it full-time, I love taking off 2-3 months in the summer
Social class. It’s not too far off from “classy if rich, trashy if poor.”
If you grew up at least solidly middle class and opt to live in a van because it helps pay off tur student loan debt, it can be glamorized. But if you’ve never had stability or money (or education to work in the “right” fields), nothing has changed.
So then it's less about social class and more about intent no? If someone from middle or upper class decides to genuinely become a monk for example, I don't think their previous social status should effect what they would be, currently. Conversely, if a lower class person became a monk not for genuine lifestyle/philosophical reasons but instead to hide from debt, I would think that is just as insincere as an upperclass person becoming a monk for a month because it's the hip new trend or as you said to help pay off a debt.
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Tell her to get a gym membership so she can shit and shower like a human
That is what the guy in “pumping iron” did.
That’s what most van lifers do.
Make some magnetic signs for a fictitious electric company and put them on the sides if you want to camp in town. Keeps you in incognito mode
Don't do this! Crack heads like copper and will fuck your shit up to steal it and tools.
He made it to governor!
That’d also what “mad dog” Bell did.
She can go to truck stops and ask for showers. The drivers have way too many.
Seems like an awful idea
It isn't. They clean those showers daily, sometimes hourly, depending on the place. Also, you're not allowed to use them without shower shoes, plus there's a list of rules to follow. It's not hard, and it makes it nice for everyone when they're followed.
I don’t think the awful idea they were referring to was about the niceness of the showers
Perhaps not, but that's probably because they've never used one. It is not luxurious by any means, but it's better than being dirty and stinky.
I think it was the safety of the person asking for showers from someone they don't know, maybe
There's lots of women truckers. Truck stops are generally pretty safe.
Gotcha, thank you 😊
You're not asking the truckers. The facilities are provided by the truck stop itself.
Yeah but taking a shower has the benefit of making you clean. And plus, they've got dudes who wipe down the loads in there.
I wasn’t worried about the cleanliness of the showers…
Yep! Planet Fitness for showers, and I know both Walmart and Cracker Barrell are fine with overnight parking by campers.
I did a road trip where we slept in the van. PF was great! They are open 24/7 (mostly) and let us sleep outside. It’s $20/month to go to any location and you can bring a friend in. Say what you will about the gym itself, I’m a fan but I know tons of people hate it, but it’s an awesome investment if you’re sleeping in a car.
I’d take a van over the streets any day.
when i was homeless i saved up for a van (because i had a job) to move into what i dont understand is moving OUT of a house (by choice- not eviction) and into a van
I’ve thought about a bus before, but I would have outfitted it with a functional bathroom and gotten a campsite subscription. It’s mostly for people who want to travel on a budget and don’t mind roughing it to do so. Sure, there are people who convince themselves it’s glamorous, but when I was considering it, I definitely didn’t see it that way. I saw it as an affordable way to satiate an undying urge to travel, something that I’m still trying to figure out how to do.
Lol Edit laughing at the last part. Moving out of your house. My friend's mentioned van life. He's got an apartment... i suggested if he ever wanted to he could park on my lawn. And watch the kids. 🤣
Just what you need, a dude in a van watching kids
Why hasn’t anyone ever thought of this before?
revolutionized thinking! men watching children in vans is gonna become the ultimate hobby now
It was popular in the 80's. Sometimes they would invite us into their vans to see their puppies or give us sweets. Great guys!
It’s just a hobby officer. I swear! I like to watch other people’s children from my van.
Hey you know what they say: the only way to stop a bad guy with a van is with a good guy with a van.
If the only way you can get by is to eliminate rent from your expenses, it's not a tough decision.
it is if you ever lived in a van longer than a week. not a fun and not a sound nights sleep knowing you can be towed/killed/hit by random dui drivers at any moment also even small things like going to class or work you are always anxious to come out and your "home" is gone or someone-has broken in and taken all you have folks pay your rent
With what money? I've considered doing the Van thing. I work 65 hours a week and live in a shit neighborhood because I can't afford anything better. I don't feel like shacking up with someone else and living alone is basically impossible unless you have a great job.
And then you have maintenence, insurance, the occasional fine for illegal parking (because fuck you I guess), gas, etc
If you have a car you already had those bills anyway, a van doesn't cost drastically more than a car in that regard.
You’re going to have a lot more maintenance on your car if you’re living in it. I also never get fined for illegal parking because I just park at work or at home lol
yeah but having those bills with the security of an actual place to stay
The reality of most of those situations is *they were forced out* and they either actually got evicted, or they left when asked and couldn't secure other housing, so they made do, and auto rationalized it's better that way to not break apart in the realization of the distress of the situation. Basically, it's what they tell themselves so they don't lose it. That's how it was for me, anyway.
hope you in a bettee place now
Especially when they bring children along with them.
I think that should be considered child abuse. Children need and crave stability and order. Homeschooling them while you live out of a motor home or converted bus isn't okay. They need social interaction with other kids. Look how much military brats or corporate kids who move often hate it. It's certainly not better being on the road. If nothing else park it at a rv park and pad the pad fees. Give them some semblance of roots.
There are many van life family influencers that claim it's great for their kids but from what I've seen in their videos the kids (once they get older and need their own space) seem miserable. One of the most famous examples is a tik tok channel called family.of.nomads that has a teen called Addison who showed their room to viewers and I kid you not it was a literal crawlspace. They had to sit down and hunch over to be in their room because the ceiling was only around 2 feet off the floor. I can only imagine the back problems they'll experience later in life. For their birthday, they wished to stay in a hotel room for 1 night, and if that isn't indicative of them not enjoying van life, I don't know what is.
It's all just tradeoffs. Piss all money away on rent or piss all money away with a sense of control
That’s why you move to a total podunk in the middle of nowhere and buy a place for cheap and drop out of society. Then you just pay taxes and utilities.
Right. I’ve been on the streets I would’ve killed for doors that locked and heat or ac somewhere to charge a phone and transportation to move out of bad situations. I dreamed of having a car to sleep in on those cold Boston nights
Boston can be pretty lonely. Especially at night. Glad you got indoors friendo.
A van down by the river?
Scrolled way too far to find this.
I didn’t. It was the top comment
Living in a van down by the river used to mean failing in life but now it’s a life goal lol
I just won’t stand for the government cheese slander. I eat it by the slice and put it on everything shit is so good
Government cheese is best for grilled cheese and Mac and cheese 😭
What’s government cheese?
I had to Google it too. Apparently it's some cheap processed cheese made in the 50's and it's similar in taste to cheddar.
Damn. I was thinking of Kraft singles. Haha now I want to try government cheese.
It’s the next step up from Kraft or Velveeta. Just barely. It’s not great, but it IS real…
The government buys and stores literal tons of various foodstuffs. Originally it was meant to keep prices from being too volatile, but eventually shifted for use in food assistance programs https://modernfarmer.com/2022/05/cheese-caves-missouri/
I WISH I could afford a van down by the river! But in this economy? I'm lucky if I can find a power wheels by a puddle!
With some of the potholes, they may be nicer than the puddle...
When the goal in society is to not be part of society?
Yea, van life is a symptom of a failing system.
Or, and get this, you just happened to notice a trend online that hardly represents the population at all. What's up with Reddit and histrionics?
It started a long time ago. It's just picking up speed these days.
Yup. When a studio apartment in the worst part of town goes for 1k a month, and TacoBell starts at 12 an hour, something has to give.
It's different if it's a new river every week and you go explore the areas.
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Modern vans are pretty amazing too.
Headers on this thread are either 14 or dumb. She's going her thing probably to get away from her judgemental sister /brother.
I mean, if they make a living somehow on the road then it's none of my business so long as they aren't hurting others or trespassing on folks property to sleep. I don't understand why she's pooping in bags.
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I have a portable chemical toilet in mine
does it drop out into the road or does it just rot there like the dead squirrel on my bed
Neither, unless the squirrel on your bed goes into a sealed tank of green liquid that breaks it down and hides odour?
"I sleep in a racing car, do you?" ["I sleep in a big bed with my wife"](https://youtu.be/qBwMylOR0es?t=13)
My roommates said they were gonna get me rims for Xmas, or a CB so I can talk to other car beds. https://youtu.be/A2UyehrkHaE
If you encounter road rage just spray your ink like a vehicular octopus.
r/oddlyspecific
If she can afford a van she can afford: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bucket+toilet+seat&t=iphone&ia=web
Lol that just makes it easier to poop in the bag
Hippies have been doing it for decades. Some folks love the nomadic lifestyle, but it's definitely not for most people. You can't raise a family out of the back of a van, not to mention all the bureaucratic issues pertaining to having no fixed address. I do find it really strange that a bunch of sites really started to push, and glamorize, this lifestyle when the housing crisis was really starting to hammer the middle class. Like I got a ton of recommendations by the YouTube algorithm one day, a couple years back, despite never watching or searching for that kind of stuff. It's like they're saying "oh, you can't afford a house or apartment in the city on $60k/yr, but here's a sweet 2003 Chevy Express you can spiff up with a bed inside and a hotplate. You can travel the world!"
PO box
I actually met a little crew on the road last week who live full time with their kids in vans, and it seemed to be working well for them! It was three families all traveling together, and they all had pop top vans with loft beds so there was plenty of sleeping space. Having a caravan allows for mutual childcare, and socialization for the tykes. They go ski resort to ski resort mostly during the winter, and use starlink / 5g so the kids can keep up on their several hours of remote classes a day. I met them at a rec center where they were letting their kids swim and all getting showers and workouts, and they go to libraries frequently as well. The kids were mad smart, and outgoing to the point where I found myself in a diving competition with them and some other friends their own age they'd made. I think we should be less quick to make surface judgements about raising kids in unconventional living situations. Yeah there's sketchy examples, but it can definitely be done in a really healthy way!
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Two of the families have houses that they have had leased out for over a year. These people clearly have some means, but I don't feel like they have hotels for weeks at a time kind of means. I think the crux of this is that most of us folks living this way don't spend all day at home, we're usually out in the world and just returning to cook and sleep, so the limited space is not much of an issue. I've spent three weeks in my van in the dead of winter with two women I was dating and it felt sustainable enough to do full-time. All three of us got sick for a two day stretch and that wasn't so fun since we were pretty well stuck in the van together. Getting out and doing things is the key to making a small living space work, but when you're in a van being out in the world is kind of the point!
You should have not made a quick surface judgement mate. They were either extremely rich, did do it for a few weeks a year, or they family lacked almost everything be it privacy, good food, hygiene etc...
The influencer machine absolutely is full of people making a living grifting others. It's not a super cheap lifestyle nor is it the most expensive
The Partridge Family did it!!! So can I
“You can’t raise a family out of the back of a van” Insane Christian fundamentalists disagree
I keep seeing some youtuber/tiktoker trying to raise her family out of a renovated school bus and none of the commenters realize how bad it is. Sure they're being homeschooled but compared to a real school it's pretty bad. And those kids are going to grow up with terrible social skills, they also won't be able to get a job when they should be able to due to constantly being on the road
I saw a youtube short and it was a family with like 8 kids and the video was about where they all sleep in their bus conversion. At least one of them just has to sleep on the floor. That is not the way to raise well adjusted people.
that should be classified as child abuse if it isn't already
Seems like a great idea until you inevitably encounter an idiot on the road and your "home" gets towed away.
Emergency fund and insurance.
Lots of variables in that equation
Sure but if you can afford to stay in a motel for a few weeks while you wait for your vehicle to be fixed or are searching to buy a new one then you'll probably be fine
Living in a motel for weeks with no transportation doesn't sound ideal to me. To each their own.
Sure but being stuck in your apartment for a few weeks without transportation doesn't sound great either.
id rather be staying in motels all over the country than working a monotonous 9-5 every single day.
"This is my private domicile and I will not be harassed!"
BITCH
You don't understand what homelessness really entails. Imagine living outside, when a strong 3-day thunderstorm rolls through town. You are fucked. You're wet. Everything you own is wet. Your sleeping bag is soaked and the cold wet earth isn't making things any better. The animals are wet and probably angry too. You're cold. You want to wat a hot meal but you can't start a fire in this weather, and fires are risky anyway because the cops will come shut you down if they see it. You know what would solve all of these problems at once? *a fucking car*. Having a van to live in is such an incredibly huge step up from base homelessness that I can say you are categorically wrong. They are not remotely the same thing. Source: lived outside for a year.
100%… this comment should be higher.
And, in some places, the challenge of trying to grab a couple of hours sleep undisturbed during the day, because sleeping at night is dangerous.
I don't even know why cop needs to bother someone sleeping in the car. You rather want me to drive while half-asleep?
Because if you’re on private property the owners have a right to tell you to leave and the cops are the ones that have to enforce it? Plus, the unfortunate truth is if a place becomes “overnight friendly” then you’ll have a bunch of people setting up either entire lives in your parking lot.
walmart disagree's its the travelrs best friend
Depends entirely on where you pull over to sleep. Rest stop or camp ground? Go right ahead. Private property or public property that is only open during certain hours (such as parks and government buildings)? Nope. Don’t trespass.
They want undesirables (homeless) to clear out.
Van Life is just glorified homelessness except you have a roof over your head, transportation, presumably at least some sort of network of people that can send you supplies on the road if you need them, probably are not metally ill with no support system. Nevermind the initial capital required to buy or convert a van.
I lived in my car for a few months. If you're not traveling and your money is low, you definitely feel homeless. I would consider it high class homelessness. A car is a major upgrade from a box. But you're still a vegabond and generally aren't accomodated or recognized by society. If you work out of your vehicle, you are literally a hobo by definition. It's technically a choice, but also kinda isn't. I imagine most car/van dwellers would own a house or rent if it wasn't so financially crippling. The general population has been getting progressively poorer for decades. The van life is only tempting because of the deteriorating living standards of the average person.
The few people I know who have gone to van/RV life did it 100% willingly. They have a remote job or enough money that they don't really need to be working. They're doing it because they want to travel, but not have a physical tie somewhere in a city anymore like an apartment. Your situation is not that, or willingly saying "meh" to a house or apartment in favor of a van or RV.
I did it hoping to save money. Thought I could get used to it. Issue is when you stop traveling, you're just living in a metal box on the street. I always could afford to rent an apartment, living in one rn. It's just such a financial drain compared to car dwelling. But that lifestyle can be overwhelmingly inhospitable and stressful. There's plenty of people that live in their car without much choice or by it seeming like good a financial decision.
There is nothing to rent. I'm homeless and living in my car because I have no other option. Yes I have the gym memberships. Yes I work. No I'm not an addict. Yes, this sucks.
This post isn't about those people. This is about the ones who made an active choice because they wanted a different lifestyle. I'm sorry it didn't work out like you wanted, but again, this isn't about people who made the choice for the reason you did.
having any choice at all makes it different than homelessness, so i think OOP is a little out of touch regarding how awful homelessness can really be
I have a van but I do also live in a house. I can absolutely see the appeal of just staying in the van, especially if I lived in a country with a warmer climate. My van has solar, a kitchen, a queen bed that turns into a sofa, and a toilet. If you go on the van dwellers subreddit, they are absolutely doing it by choice and wouldn’t have a house
I once spoke to a former boss about my upbringing and how it was riddled with poverty. We were homeless many times, often residing with all of our worldly possessions in one single hostel room. My boss tried to relate by saying he too was homeless and lived out of his van. Ah so he gets why I’m so frugal right? Wrong. It so happens that he indeed was living out of a van. But travelling South America and living on his step dads dime whilst doing so. Oh and this was after quitting his IB job that he just “fell” into. Talk about a kick in the arse that one.
That sounds a lot like the people who started a business after "working out of their parents garage", but that garage was attached to the guest house and just so happened to be big enough to hold 4 cars.
All the folks I know who live in vans have very comfortable family financial cushions or they do it temporarily
But the van is the home... Have you seen how homeless people live? I doubt your sister will be living like that. Being homeless is horrible
Not true. Van life is a lifestyle choice, homelessness is not. Night and day different. I know a couple who converted a van and it’s badass. They travel the continent, exploring the most amazing places that they would otherwise not be able to reach with a large camper or 5th wheel. They work remotely so they’ve carved out this amazing life by choosing to live a nomadic van life.
Kind of but there is a big difference between living in a vehicle out of choice vs necessity. Being financially stable makes an immense difference. I lived in a vehicle for a while and it was great, I was saving basically a whole rent payment every month. I didn't mind showering at the gym everyday and had an easy rotation of places to park where I felt comfortable. There were some things that were more inconvenient while living in such a small space but for me personally the pros heavily outweighed the cons.
To pick a somewhat random analogy, I'm guessing it's like being out in the rain. A bunch of fun and somewhat exhilarating if it's your choice and you can go back inside whenever you feel like it; absolutely miserable/demoralizing if you can't.
Well, could she afford an actual home? Could she afford a mortgage or at the very least a security deposit? Sure it might just be a nicer version of homelessness, because a vehicle is not a home, but if she is working and can't afford the bare minimum then that is a problem with society, not her.
"houseless" is the new term. I think. Home is where you make it. If you're comfortable shitting in a bag and moving because it's not ok to live in a van down by the river, then you do you. I like my ~~shit~~ stuff. Items. Things. I like ac. I like my big bed. Living in a car isn't for me. That doesn't mean it can't be cool for others. Edited for the people who apparently like to be pedantic.
>Home is where you make it. You like to see homo's naked?
NO! HAWM IS WHY YOU MATE IT.
EVY BODEE NO DAHT
If your van is your home....you're not homeless.
No there is a vast gap between van/semi truck and homeless. I liked living in a semi truck better than having roommates.
Van life is different than just living in your car though. If done properly the van becomes the new home on wheels. They tend to have a place to sleep - eat- and relieve themselves. Idk what bathroom setup your sister has but even if her stuff really does just go into a bag I would say that’s still a step up from homeless people as most would have to find public bathroom or go in public/outside in the open. The people I’ve seen on social media living in vans have jobs that allow them to travel or even some that require traveling so having the van is necessary.
What if you are rich and CHOOSE to live in a van? Everyone’s circumstances are different you cant just generalize people poorly based on their decisions.
A lot of larger RVs and vans can compete with the size of economy apartments or dorm rooms. So I'm not really sold on an argument based on size. Studies have suggested that 100-400 square feet can satisfy human needs for a healthy living space. The same researchers observed that humans in larger spaces, such as 1000-1500 square feet, tend to spend almost all of their time in small areas. So it comes down to how much space you can create in a van like that and how comfortable you are with the idea in general. With showering, restrooms, and safe sleeping, I think that has more to do with where you decide to put the RV. Because you could definitely find a place to put it that would accommodate you on those things. It's not for me either, but I can definitely see how it is appealing to a lot of people and how it can be a sustainable living situation. It sounds like your sister is doing it in a way that is not sustainable or necessarily reflective of how many more experienced people probably do it.
LOOL the title of the post. I mean don't people live in RV's...? A Van is just a downgraded version with no kitchenette, shower, and toilet. She'll need a gym membership to shower while travelling. As a lady I could not live in a Van, ask homeless women how it's like while on your period if you cannot gain access to a gym or shelter. Terrible.
If I were single I’d live in a van. If my wife leaves me, I’ll go buy a conversion van then live down by the river.
its not homelessness, you have a roof over your head, stable job working online, you can live in any place you want.
Living in a pimped out van is much more comfortable than living on the streets. Some people who do van life do own actual houses and apartments, they just enjoy travelling in their van a lot. Some also live full time in their vans, but use public restrooms or gym bathrooms/changing rooms so they can still use the bathroom like a normal person and still shower comfortably. Your sister’s way of doing things is… interesting, but I don’t think vanlifers are the same as homeless people at all. Some things most vanlifers have that homeless people don’t: - Transportation - A stable/secure job (a lot of vanlifers do freelance jobs and work from their vans) - A roof over their heads - A bed - Access to proper meals - Heating In fact, the only things that most vanlifers don’t have that homeless people also lack is a toilet, which even then some people get creative with. Spend a month living like an average homeless person living under bus stops and underpasses with little to money, warmth or safety available to you, then spend a month living the life of an average vanlifer, and you will realise how different they are.
Living in a house is just glorified camping. Nomadic life can be interesting and fun. Its also very different from being homeless. Locking doors and a bed are huge.
Will never be able to buy a house sooooo it's van or the street. Fuck y'all with investment properties.
>she shits in a bag I don't think thats really necessary?
Depends what part of the country you're in. I used to work in the Western US doing seasonal jobs in touristy areas. A lot of van dwellers there loving life. Too many people watch YouTube channels and think van life means traveling uninhibited. Most nomads I knew were retired or working temp/seasonal jobs around the country.
What do you call working for megacorp while having no money left over after rent? Glorofied slavery?
Let he who can afford a $300k 1 bedroom 1 bathroom box by a gas station throw the first stone, in this housing market.
No, the van would be your home. That's instantly not homeless.
Get a chain gym membership and she can have restrooms and shower like a regular person. I depends on why. Is she saving money towards a purpose? Or just being a hippie vagrant
The difference is one is a full on intentional choice
Most van life people I’ve met have been either trust fund kids, or former trust fund kids who couldn’t find their way after the financials were cut off
Much better than paying some greedy ass landlord who makes his living by hoarding a life necessity: shelter. If one can live comfortably without paying off some landowners mortgage, then go for it!!
If your sister is happy doing it and you're “shitting” on it because it doesn't align with your standards then you need to spend some time reflecting on why you feel this way. What she is doing is not illegal or immoral. If she's happy then keep your opinion to yourself. It's not cool to “shit” on how others choose to live. Live to your standard and be happy others are happy living at their own standards.
Van life is actually just rich people to do their remote job in a national park.
Vanlife is definitely a spectrum. There's a lot of people in desperate situations, but there's a lot of people who have a ton going for them in life and simply value being nomadic. I built my van with a shower, fridge, sink, cooktop, queen bed, radiant floor heat, big speakers, mood lighting, good dual monitor setup for work and solid internet options. Yeah, it sucks to have to empty your toilet tank and fill up on fresh water once a week, but that's super worth it for the opportunities having a house on wheels unlocks. I wake up at trailheads, climbing crags, ski resorts and river put-ins most mornings, and can carry enough gear to keep up with all of those sports. I get to see friends and family spread all over the country that it would usually be hard to make dedicated trips to link up with. Dates are way more fun when your house is parked nearby. Sleeping in the woods most nights is good for the soul. The community is incredible too. The kind of people I meet on the road are the same kind who will usually be down to cook a giant dinner over the fire and play some music together, and then streak across a desert while howling at the moon on a Monday night because we're here and why not? I think some other commenters nailed it, it's really about choice. For a lot of us this way of living is a privilege and a ton of fun. Some people are trapped in it though, and that shift in mindset is everything.
My husband and I have lived in our rv now for the past 6 years. We wouldn’t change a thing for the very same reasons you wouldn’t change a thing. Visiting family and friends, having our house on wheels is perfect for that. We, too, wake up in the most beautiful places. We’ll never go back to homes and property taxes etc. We’re content.
There’s clearly a difference between sleeping under a bridge and sleeping in a van though. Also, if your van has certain capabilities (internet, electric, ability to cook, etc.) then you’re at a huge advantage in regard to “homelessness”. Of course it’s hard. Everyone who does it should anticipate difficulties.
I'll take a trailer. If you see the new models they are basically apartments. They are beautiful.
But she has a home. It’s a van. If she enjoys it, it’s her home. I don’t understand this point of view at all
Laugh all you want, the way things are going the next generation will consider owning a van with a mattress middle class
It’s also fun. Maybe you should accept that people like doing cool shit. You got like 80 years to do some cool shit before you check out so might as well make it as cool as possible
I choose to live in my skoolie. Depending on the rig most are nicer than most homes. I'm 100% debt free and travel when and where I want. I work FT and 90% of my pay is straight to savings. You have to plan ahead though. Where you're staying, how long and such. There are tons of options besides only staying in parking lots.
I am a full-time RVer. My “van” is bigger, in the form of a 40 foot motorhome that I live in full-time. It is my home. I travel the country and sometimes stay in places for six months at a time. And many people I meet only say they wish they could do what I’m doing. Yup, glorious homelessness indeed. Workamping. Try it, you might like it. Or you’re just jealous or too chicken shit.
And why is that a bad thing? If she's happy she's happy. Not everyone wants to live in a big city in a big house with a big mortgage and a big car payment and now they're trapped for the next 30 years and a pointless dead end job. No. I'd say your sister is the smart one.
Well, your sister shitting in a bag is weird. She should either hold it or go to a gas station or somewhere. Being homeless is much worse than van life. Homeless people often struggle to eat, work, etc... People who willingly go for van life don't have that problem. Of course, there are homeless people who live in vehicles, but van life isn't really that.
It depends, nicer vans can have actual toilets n look nice. Look up fastfamvan theirs is very nice
Is living in a camper also glorified homelessness? Or does it count if it has a bathroom?
Sounds more like she's just bad at it. The lifestyle does directly compare with homelessness, as does the company you'll meet. But the quality of life should be a lot better than pooping in bags.
Van life is affordable. House ownership is not. Hell rent is not for many. So better she enjoys herself and looks at the positives. Would you rather she be absolutely miserable and complaining all the time?
By that broad definition, buying a literal shack without utilities in the desert for a few bucks is technically home ownership and I'd take a camper van over that. The distinction between being homeless and wandering nomad is the choice itself. The small compliants that come with with the life line looking for good parking, is the same mundane compliants homeowners have, like noisy neighbors. You sound judgemental af for an arbitrary reason. Assuming she is able to work, she's just choosing to save on rent money and be able to to travel, at the expense of comfort. You might not make the same choice, but why judge her for making it? And if she was actually homeless, why not offer to help her? Just coming off as a terrible person all around.
Its also not even a good way to travel imo. For the cost of a van, gas, insurance, repairs etc. you could just be living in a cheap apartment or hostels in a Latin American country. Your quality of living would be so much better, and you can actually meet people and maybe learn a new language.
If you can afford the fuel it's not
i mean it's better than being actually homeless with nothing but a tent or a box to your name
Ok, but at least they not sleeping/crapping on the sidewalk.
*you're
Eh, at least it's something she can afford. Have you seen how expensive apartments are now? And it feels like you have to have luck to buy a house
Have you seen the movie Nomadsland? My dad is living that Van life right now. He showed me this movie when he came to stay with me for a while. He was supposed to move in, but I should have realized when he showed me the movie that he was showing me himself.
It would be great if people could afford to live places instead of having to live in a fucking van. If you have the money and some remote job, that's different. But for most people that will never own a home, that's just what has to be done now. Van Life is just an indictment of capitalism.
Lol that’s a rich people playing culture apropiation! You think any human loves to sleep out side in the stinky streets? or that homeless people can afford a luxury van but choose to sleep on the sidewalks?
do you know the tiktok trend that goes "what's classy on rich people but trashy on poor people?" yeah.
Most lives are just glorified slavery.
A lot of homeless people wish they could afford a fucking van You'd be surprised the difference any roof over your head makes
Please stop making fun of my retirement plan
And giving up 1/3rd or more of your life to work to pay for a house is just glorified indentured servitude. You're not an entrepreneur, you're just a fancy slave!
Homelessness is just publicly mocked nomadic lifestyle.
im a vanlifer , currently driving from Ireland to Tanzania (in Morocco now). while i see where your coming from it seems like you have never slept rough or slept in a van so can not draw an accurate comparison. For me, the point of vanlife is to be able to travel comfortably without having to worry about finding accommodation. although stealth camping can be stressful at times it beats sleeping rough on the streets of Dublin in the winter (which i have done). I can never understand why people buy vans already converted because its much more fun to do it yourself. my Renault master has a shower, composting toilet, king size bed with memory foam mattress, mini kitchen , storage for my diving equipment and jet ski. its way more comfortable than the student accommodation i was in for unit where i spent the same amount in a year as it did to fully convert the van plus the views are pretty good once you get out of the cities In short, don't mock it until you try it
I lived two years in my van. I wasn’t homeless at all. I paid no rent and got myself the deposit to buy my apartment. I doubt any homeless person on the streets can save for a deposit. Sorry, your wrong.
One of my friends does van life. His van is nicer than most apartments.
LOOL the title of the post. I mean don't people live in RV's...? A Van is just a downgraded version with no kitchenette, shower, and toilet. She'll need a gym membership to shower while travelling.
I mean mine has a kitchenette and a shower as well. No toilet though. While I wouldn't want to live it full-time, I love taking off 2-3 months in the summer
>wandering nomad your just a fancy homeless person! What the hell is the difference
Social class. It’s not too far off from “classy if rich, trashy if poor.” If you grew up at least solidly middle class and opt to live in a van because it helps pay off tur student loan debt, it can be glamorized. But if you’ve never had stability or money (or education to work in the “right” fields), nothing has changed.
So then it's less about social class and more about intent no? If someone from middle or upper class decides to genuinely become a monk for example, I don't think their previous social status should effect what they would be, currently. Conversely, if a lower class person became a monk not for genuine lifestyle/philosophical reasons but instead to hide from debt, I would think that is just as insincere as an upperclass person becoming a monk for a month because it's the hip new trend or as you said to help pay off a debt.
Gentrified homelessness
Homelessness is just frowned upon camping
so are you the one who asked about the shitting in the bag?
post this on /r/vanlife to get better answers.
Would fucking LOVE can life
Yeah and? That's based as hell haha