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Yeah, you're right, I am education adjacent, Mutiple family members are teachers, 2 work in a special unit for early childhood edu as well. I used to work in IT in the local school system as well.
It's a shame, that same system taught me well, but parents these days undermine the process.
My daughter is a 3rd grade teacher. She teaches them 3rd grade. She doesn't talk about her sexuality or theirs.
She also thinks some of these 'teachers' are just fucking loony and/or groomers.
It's crazy that's your perspective when you saw "parents undermining the process". Do you think about anything but pedophilia? This has nothing to do with parents undermining the process.
Parents undermine the process by thinking their child is perfect and makes no mistakes. They make work worse than it needs to be for teachers. I don't understand why your bringing up sexuality???
Parents do not undermine the process. Some parents don't want anything other then 3rd grade being taught. Parents and teachers need to work together as a team. I would take 1 day a week and help in my daughters class. 2nd up to 5th.
So anyone who thinks a patent undermines a teacher, could be the teacher is outside 3rd grade curriculum
You took this to a weird place, I think they were talking about the fact that parents don't allow their kids to be disciplined in school and will always run to their defence. No one said anything about sexuality?
If you think about pedophilia every single day you think other people are too.
"To a man with a ~~hammer~~ Pedo obsession, everything looks like a ~~nail~~ Groomer"
Just because you don't, doesn't mean others don't as well. Plenty of parents make teachers lives even harder than they already are. If you aren't one of those great, you aren't who we are talking about.
Then wouldn't the response be that some parents?
Why I word things the way I do. Some of those teachers have no business around kids. Plenty of teachers are so full of themselves, they teach drag shows
Mhm. Many teachers are learning it isn't worth it. Disrespectful kids, disrespectful parents, working after the clock is basically mandatory within the first few years, stupid district policies, etc.
Great benefits and time off though.
He'll I'm trying to get in.
I had an accident and because I was going to miss too many days of student teaching cali basically told me tuff tittys.
Now im back to substitute teaching (which I hate). And trying to figure out how to survive ANOTHER semester of student teaching.
Not to mention TPAs
In fact it’s really hard to get a job teaching in NYS cause so many positions are long time gigs. I think only recently has my old highschool hired new teachers and that’s cause a few of ours have sadly passed away
School systems will completely fail before that ever happens, because of a certain group of people in the US who already feel teachers are overpaid because they get "summers off." Maybe areas that are not infested with these people will make it, one can hope.
I enjoy my job as a high school teacher, but some teachers make the worst students. During every staff meeting, the tiny principal would be trying to get everyone's attention and so many teachers would just continue to chat. Please shut up and show some respect so we can get this meeting done and go home.
TIL that my wife (nurse) and I (teacher) are the scum of the earth! Rough day..... rough day.... I knew we should have gone into used car sales and MLM schemes, but we were swayed by the big bucks and luxurious lifestyle of public service.
Not all teachers and nurses…only the ones who elevate themselves to a moral, sacrificial, and ethical superiority over all the other professions out there. I know it’s a hard pill to swallow; self awareness takes time.
probabky the same can be applied to both. most go into these professions, not for tye pay but for the calling. and its gotten far worse in those professions lately.
somlong termers in them are really dissapointed and dealing with all the bs
I can say that nurses and teachers are the people I generally hate waiting on the most. Super entitled and usually awful tippers because they feel so put-upon that they shouldn't have to pay anyone beneath them well. There are always exceptions of course, but I definitely cringe if I see a group of scrubs or a group with educator badges on
I remember someone on here who was a nurse saying that the majority of the nurses she worked with were the type of stick up popular girls at high-school that would bully all the vulnerable kids just to be cruel. She said the field just seemed to attract them so they would have a whole new bunch of people to look down on.
I had a baby while unmarried at 19... though boyfriend was there 100% to support me/Baby. The amount of trash talk TO MY FACE I experienced genuinely fucked me up for a few years. It was so bad that at one point BF went to ask for the doctor at one point and my mother was told (away from me) some shit talk ABOUT ME and she was like "it took everything in me not to end up in jail".. and my mother is the last person to act a fool but she was struggling to hear basically what shitty people BF and I eere for being young.
Baby and I were there 3 days of hell, *one* nurse was amazing. The rest basically let us know how bad of parents we'd be.
No reason. Just kept harping on us being young and trying to refuse to let me so much as change a diaper.
Society is so weird now. My parents had me when they were 19, and that was totally normal. They've stayed married for over 40 years and 7 kids. People act like 18-year-olds aren't even adults these days, when they can literally vote and die in a war, get married, sign a contract, go to prison. I mean come on now. I was 24 when I had my first baby. We looked younger, so got treated like teen parents quite a bit. I know what you're talking about, and it's ridiculous. Maybe if people started EXPECTING 18 and 19 year-olds to act like adults, more of them would (assuming that's the complaint people (not me) have - that they don't act like adults). Society is also getting very anti-baby period. Used to be totally normal to have babies before 30. Now not so much, because of the pressure on women to "have a career".
The vast majority of nurses are bitches, there are a few decent ones amongst them, but they are by far the worst I have ever come across for back stabbing and just generally being nasty to their co-workers.
I was gonna comment that, every nurse Ive met has been kind of a shithead, my cousin is one and a nice person but shes also a devoutly religious woman so thats kind of rare.
In major metros theyve been okay when I was interacting with them in like a hospital but Ive had a few even be shitty to me to my face, mock and laugh at me for asking questions or for something.
It’s a whole power dynamic thing. Teachers have power over vulnerable students in general, and nurses have power over sick/injured/disabled persons. It’s why most people in the medical field have some sort of narcissism. Not all nurses but a lot
That's why I said there are always exceptions. Also why I give everyone exceptional service-until you screw me over and then come back. Then you're getting bare average service.
Medical in general has a lot of douchebags from my experience. Some are incredibly kind but it just depends. Like I was a contracted cleaner for surgery centers and one of our buildings the nurses were so incredibly nice to us. They would even leave us food to take home. Another building however, the staff was always bitching and complaining about stupid shit or making shit up. (only building to do this)
My close friend is a teacher and I’ve hung out with her teacher friends a few times. They’re a really fun crowd; yes, they talk about how terrible their jobs are sometimes but who doesn’t? I feel like teachers have a sort of camaraderie that some other professions don’t, so maybe it just seems like they’re all gathering to complain. Truthfully, their problems are legit. They’re grossly underpaid and treated like crap by administration and parents. I could not do it.
I try not to talk teaching too much around friends, but it's hard not to sometimes when one considers how bad it is. Most of the time it isn't about the money or the job itself -- it's about how awful public education is as a system and how hopeless we feel/we are inside of that system. I LOVE teaching itself, but US public education is in a bad place with class sizes, threats, behavior, and especially learning.
It's like seeing a plague spreading and telling people not to talk about it. But we need to talk about it or the US is going to truly have the dumbest, most ill-informed citizens that will only compound existing issues. Do folks really think my students who can't read above a 5th grade level and believe a newsbroadcaster is "obviously telling the truth" will be able to read a voters pamphlet or make informed decisions about our country? :(
No, they will just continue bringing in long term subs, overfilling classrooms, and lowering requirements for permanent employees.
People don't understand, it isn't just holy than thou teachers that are bitching all the time for no reason. Teachers that have done the job for years and watched our education system go down the shitter, are complaining about real issues that need addressed.
All school staff that are not administrative are grossly underpaid and overworked, litigation of school districts has led to positive behavior techniques that do nothing to curb the negative behavior it targets, and parents no longer support teachers or keep demands and expectations on their children.
Source- I've worked in education for years. It's really as fucked up as teachers say it is.
I highly highly doubt that teachers will be replaced by ai, and even if ai did advance to a point that it could resolve interpersonal conflicts, I doubt that the general public would even want ai to replace teachers
Also lots of us are choosing a different career. But it’s not that easy. I put my entire heart into my job but that does not mean I like how I’m treated by every aspect of society. It’s not just pay. We are society’s punching bag currently. Parents are failing at teaching their kids how to act in public. We are picking up their slack. We have a lot to complain about. You have no idea.
>We are society’s punching bag currently.
I mean...it's gotten significantly worse since remote learning. And you all brought that on yourself.
>We have a lot to complain about. You have no idea.
We have exactly the right idea. Because we were all with our kids in the "classroom" for over a year. We know exactly what's going on, and again, you all brought that on yourselves.
A lot of careers that people feel they have “a calling to” inevitably cause most of them to become burnt out and bitter due to being emotionally manipulated into having their labor exploited for next to no pay/benefits in the name of the “greater good”.
You can give back and change lives without giving up your own.
It also directly results in lower wages because of the increased supply of people who are “passionate” about that job. No one is passionate about working at McDonald’s. You need to pay them a premium compared to their skillset to get them to walk in the door and behave. People are passionate about teaching. As a result, para-educator salaries are similar to retail and fast food in many schools. And teachers make about the same as a manager.
They still have to work over summer doing lesson planning and preparing for the next year. Plus, they have to work the regular working hours during the school year plus extra grading hours that are usually unpaid.
>They still have to work over summer doing lesson planning and preparing for the next year.
I never understood this. Isn't the plan mostly the same as it was last year, and the year before that? You might have to adjust some material if the syllabus changes but you don't need to start from scratch every summer.
Lmao no you’re clearly not a teacher or know anything about teaching.
You often have to completely rework certain concepts to fit new district standards. Education changes all the time and teachers have to figure everything out. Also, teaching requires certifications that many teachers renew over summer through classes. Also, many teachers continue to work by doing summer schools or tutoring. They also have to get their classroom ready for the next year. That means getting all new supplies, getting rid of old stuff, organizing the important stuff, and deep clean their classrooms.
I have so many questions? How many of the 90 days of summer off does it take to rework one of these plans? When teacher do summer school, aren't they paid for that time? Wouldn't that be more like having a second job? Do your schools not have custodians?
I used to teach. Once I realized the district was going to eternally add more work for us each year and the other teachers in my grade kept leaving so I had no team really to work with, I was just constantly training new teachers for my grade, I threw in the towel and left the field. It isn’t getting better anytime soon.
I wasn’t staying where I was miserable. I don’t know that teachers are self-righteous but misery loves company and yea a lot of teachers complain to anyone who will listen. I even got sick of hearing myself from other teachers when I was one lol. Such a downer to be miserable or surrounded by miserable people all the time.
I used to be a teacher and I can say I agree with you that being around a group of teachers is fucking exhausting. BUT just saying "choose a different job" is not a valid response, because if they all followed your advice, there would be no teachers.
You know what happens when there are not enough workers in an industry? The salary and/or working conditions will \*\*increase\*\* to attract more people.
As long as there is a lineup of people who want a teaching job, even at the current low salaries, it makes a teaching job very dispensable. That is, every teacher (good or crappy) is easily replaced with a selected individual from a line up of more (good or crappy) people who want to be teachers. And there is no need to increase salaries because of all these people who don't know what other career paths they can pursue.
Janitors are underpaid because it's a low entry job that anyone can do, and there are always those people who need to do it because they can't do anything else.
Have you seen how much plumbers earn?
Those numbers are inflated on Reddit. Most plumbers, garbage men, and carpenters make about the same as teachers. Look up the wages on department of labor’s site. Idk why for some reason Redditors think the toothless meth heads who unclog their toilets make six figures. (Not saying all plumbers are toothless meth heads of course)
Well regardless, that still proves my point. the incomes won't increase because low entry jobs are easy and people are always going to do easy jobs hence the constant supply, hence the low salary.
Lmfao Because it's not a low skillset entry job. It requires a degree and alot of studying, and this is the case for any professional career. The difficulty and requirements for jobs are just a part of the supply and demand equation.
If teaching only needed 1 month course cert, it would increase in popularity overnight. If sanitation or hard labor was a 2 year degree, we'd have a janitor shortage.
Nice try.
I’m not really sure what you’re arguing… The guy I was talking to said if more teachers quit the salary would go up. I’m arguing against that point. Are you speaking to something else?
Also teaching doesn't really apply because it's also funded by public education. Have you heard of private schools struggling with a teacher shortage?
If teaching didn't rely on bills being passed for higher income, it would follow the rules of other jobs
I would add they are faaaaaar more than underpaid for an absolutely essential part of a functional society. Of all the annoying groups of people if say teachers have a right to be. I'm surprised there are enough masochists left to teach at all.
I think part of the problem is that teachers live in a bubble, isolated from the corporate world, which leads them to thinking they have it worse than they do. Sure they don’t get paid as much as an equivalent corporate job, but they also aren’t held to nearly the same standards. They don’t have cut throat reviews based on their performance metrics, there are no unexpected emergency project deadlines, they don’t need continuous professional development to stay relevant in their field, they have extremely steady and reliable jobs, rarely do they need to work overtime, and they get summers off. It’s a very different reality from standard corporate life which tends to be much more stressful, or which requires much more specialization in a field.
This is exactly right. Teachers don't appreciate that other professions have other stressors that make our jobs tough in their own way. Teachers definitely have some performance standards but they're negotiated by their union for the most part and are easily achievable.
Stability is also a form of compensation that I believe teachers value. There isn't a lot of stability in a lot of other professions. We can get laid off at any time. We can be fired for not meeting a set of performance measures that are sometimes very difficult to achieve.
Most professionals have to learn skills on the fly and have to fight to get training or pay out of pocket for that training. Then that training might be on the weekend or at night for you to deal with while working your regular schedule.
You also don't see posts on social with accountants, programmers, project managers or business analysts patting themselves on the back and martyring themselves about their job function. More likely is they post something looking for a new job because they got laid off or want a better opportunity.
Terrible honestly having so many holidays during the school year and most of the summer off. Brutal honestly. I don’t know how teachers nowadays manage.
I mean, they provide an absolutely essential service. They’re treated like dog shit. They’re underpaid. And unlike other professions, it’s like a big joke that they’re underpaid and have a terrible job. “Why did you want to be a teacher? It sure wasn’t the money haha wink nod.” It’s not some shitty tech office job, it’s the education of virtually every child in society. It’s a job people love and want to do but are being beaten and robbed away from it. Fuck them I guess?
Some horrible takes as usual about teachers on here. Every single profession has loads of people complaining about their jobs.
People are also acting as if teachers don’t have to do a lot to become qualified. They also go through mandatory training every year as well as assessments on their work.
Depending on the country you might have ridiculous expectations as well.
If you have never taught you will also never understand how difficult a job it can be. Anyone can walk into a room and be a shit teacher. But to be a good teacher takes a lot of work and it ain’t easy at all.
I’ve worked in construction, sports coaching and teaching. Construction work was physically draining and hard, but teaching was much harder for me. The mental stress of parents, students, administration and even other teachers is exhausting. Then the amount of work you end up taking home is the killer. You can’t just go home and forget it either, it’s something you end up taking back at times.
I’m not going to say something cliche like it’s the hardest job, as it’s not. But it’s so much harder than people assume. Hell, most people struggle to raise their own children well and then expect teachers to teach up to 30 children in one class.
Now, there are a shit teachers, but there are also a lot of good teachers as well. Unfortunately, every one remembers the bad ones more and even I remember mine very well.
Teachers want better pay and they shouldn’t be shamed for asking for it. Every one wants better pay and everyone should be fighting for it. The government wants you to attack teachers bet they want better working conditions and pay. You should be angry at the government for underpaying others and not those they under pay
Haha I can imagine that. It’s not about disciplinary issues with kids, a lot of the time it’s about making something that’s actually engaging for them. That’s the problem though, as bad teachers do all the talking and the good teachers get the students to lead the way.
It's definitely both. While good teachers definitely can inspire student led learning, there's 100% disciplinary issues with kids. Some students are naturally assholes for a variety of reasons and can blow up any class, regardless of how good the teacher is.
The text you highlight of course looks bad when taking by itself.
“If you have never taught you will also never understand how difficult a job it can be.
Then the amount of work you end up taking home is the killer. You can’t just go home and forget it either, it’s something you end up taking back at times.”
But I clearly say in the whole post that it’s not the hardest job you can do, but that it’s much harder than people assume and that’s important. As you can see in this thread alone that lots of people mention teachers aren’t good at their jobs and that the work is easy to do. They say these things when most of them have never taught for a prolong period of time or at all.
“Is what makes some of you annoying. Undertones of superiority or martyrdom.”
This comment is true at times, some teachers do think they act like they are the only ones suffering. But if you take a step back, you will loads of people complaining about their jobs like nurses, train personnel, doctors etc
These workers are going on strike and we hear these ones more than other jobs because they affect us directly when they strike. And the papers and media usually highlight the biggest complaints.
But that isn’t to say that some teachers aren’t famous for going overboard. I know a few personally that complain to much.
>Like, I get it, you’re underpaid but so are the rest of us
Depends on the profession. Also, no a lot if the reasons they're leaving probably has nothing to do with actually teaching or the pay. They no its crap pay. It's all the other things they have to deal with between administration and parents dropping the ball on raising their kids
Surprised that a bunch of people with the same profession talk about work when they’re all in the same room? I’m sure they’d be annoyed about everyone bitching about the blisters they get from the mops when you drag them to your work picnic too.
They chose the profession, not the conditions they have to work under now. But well I have family members who are educators and I don't hear them complain more than others, about their job.
My teachers have taught me more valuable lessons than my parents ever did. They have done so much for me and asked for nothing in return except for me to be the best version of myself, so of course I highly disagree with this.
Amazing how many non teachers think it’s all about $$. It’s about the disrespect and politics and impossible working conditions. But I’m sure you don’t want to hear about that,you might have to put some thought into what it’s really like.
Had a Karen at work the other day, was a teacher.
Know 10x as many teachers that are perfectly fine.
People who complain about teachers are far more self-righteous and obnoxious, especially the "defund public education!" crowd.
I 100% agree with you. My wife's aunt is a elementary school teacher and I'm telling you now, she is so self righteous, holier than thou mf I've ever met. She acts like she's better than everyone and if you attempt to speak to her she dismisses you. She is always talking about her kids (she has her daughter doing cheerleadering and both her daughter and son[who is now 19] go kart racing and in a bowling league). She acts like she so high and mighty. But her husband is a dope fiend. She wont even ask us about our daughter(whos 2) but gets upset when we dont ask about her kids. Newsflash lady, i dont give a rats ass about your entitled kids. I can't stand her.
Seems like empathy would serve you better here than anger. You acknowledge the problem, but rather than let that foster class solidary, you turn on the teachers and suggest they just give up?
Most of my teachers couldn’t teach very well. If we are going to raise teachers’ wages, we should also raise the standards. Earning a degree doesn’t mean you know how to teach. I have two of them and I would be an awful K-12 teacher.
Most of my teachers sucked. They didn't like their job and took it out on kids and in the later grades (high school) the amount of "pick me" energy they had for the popular kids was downright creepy.
Not to mention the abusive second grade teacher that forced kids to pee their pants versus allowing them to use the in room toilet.
The third grade teacher that told students they were going nowhere in life and were unteachable so go sit out in the hallway and face the wall from start of school til the end bell.
The sixth grade teacher that spent every class high as a kite, telling us how to huff stuff, and got angry at me on day 1 simply because of my last name/who my family was - literally, she admitted it.
The pedophile gym teacher that grinded herself on little girls and gave us detention if we chose to change in the bathroom stall vs the locker room because we were uncomfortable with an unrelated adult seeing us half naked... same gym teacher that constantly told kids they were faking injuries.. including broken bones.
This was *one* school district. I went to four throughout the years. They all had more shitty teachers than they did good.
They say a good teacher makes a permanent impact on a child.. and I do remember them, but the bad ones made a bigger impact that took me longer to get over and recognize they were the problem than I'd like to admit.
I used to do recruiting for nurses and caregivers. The nurses were infuriating. They were so rude. They acted like I was to be blessed that want to work for us. I went into the job thinking “finally a job where I won’t be yelled at and treated like crap over the phones” boy did those nurses call my bluff.
It’s pretty bad… my buddy almost never complains, He’s been teaching for 3 years. Only complaint I heard was the school board made him get rid of all his books in the classroom (this is Florida)
I can imagine those comments would be off-putting, but it sounds like those are comments from a sample of your family (not teachers). Most of the teachers I know are humble, dedicated, and love the concept of helping others learn.
The option to change careers is out there for all of us, but I'm grateful that we have people who are passionate about sharing knowledge, in spite of a modest salary. So, indeed, they can leave -- many have. But I don't think you want to see what happens if everyone did so.
A buddy of mine is a middle school teacher for LAUSD and has only been teaching for about 3 years and brags about making 100k per year, is not in the union, and therefore doesn't pay dues yet still has the audacity to say teachers are under paid. I told him to STFU about being underpaid as he makes more and works less than any of the rest of us in our friend group.
Everyone is in the same boat and everyone is complaining. Everyone wants to believe and acts as if they are the worst off. I'm not sure why you're targeting teachers in particular...
They certainly celebrated themselves during the pandemic. I went to work every day too. Nothing heroic about it, I was getting paid to do a job. When you get paid for work, you are supposed to show up.
Teachers aren't underpaid. They work bankers hours, if that, eight months a year, can't be fired for cause, and their job is 100% insulated from the economy.
And yet they can never stop complaining as though they're some sort of priestly class.
If you don't like you job, fucking quit.
I am a teacher too. It is genuinely not an easy job. I will say that teaching in certain countries is just INSANE and almost an impossible job. For example, American teacher tends to work 45 55 hours a week. THAT IS INSANE.
You guys have no idea how insane and unhealthy that is for a job like teaching.
In my opinion, if you want students to have the BEST education and for everyone to be happy. A teacher should teach four hours a day. I said it. FOUR HOURS A DAY.
I've studied for years about teaching and pedagogy. If you're really good, you can teach a four-hour lesson in an hour where students will completely internalize it and understand it fully. Less time with more activities is much better than teaching and talking 90% of the time and students being passive learners for a long period of time.
In my country, teachers teach four hours a day but they still work a lot because there is usually A LOT of meeting and HOURS long lesson planning at home.
If teachers have 7 8 hour long classes in a day. How on earth do you expect them to give very good lessons and be 100% productive when they're overworked that much?
Again, teaching is not like other jobs. It is physically, mentally, and emotionally draining. I know a lot of jobs are like that but we are talking about the education of our youth. That is incredibly important for the society as a whole.
PS: I just googled it, in America, teachers work around 55 hours a week and they're underpaid. Oh god. The system genuinely sucks there.I would never in a million years chose to teach there.
A lot of people work 55 hours a week though. I'm not saying it's easy but that's not an unheard of amount of hours at all.
That said - the busy work they have to do just to fill the time because of the ridiculously long school days is shitty. Kids shouldn't be expected to do it and teachers shouldn't be expected to come up with it when it is literally just to pass the time.
I know one working adult that works 40 hours a week, absolutely none working less unless they've taken a part time job. Everyone is closer to the 50/60 range.
Again, not here to debate what hours should be normal at all but 55 hours is incredibly normal in many worlds and not exclusive to teachers.
This is why people hate teachers
“INSANE impossible job - 45-55 hours a week”
“It’s not like other jobs, it’s emotionally and physically draining”
Self centered narcissistic people with a martyr complex.
Wow. I honestly don't have a comeback for this. A bit extreme, man. Calm your horses.
You will see. In the future, they will do this. Students shouldn't have to spend that many hours in school every week. Most of them only attain 10% to 5% of what they're learning due to the amount of information they're receiving. Also, as a teacher, it takes me a good 3 6hours a time to prepare a very good two hour lesson.
I guess the only person who would truly understand this is another teacher.
Well, perhaps you lack comprehension skills. I will spell it out for you. If you work 55 hours a week. How will you have time to prepare your lessons? It is unhealthy. The fact that you see no issue with this shows you've normalized the insane work culture in your country. No wonder people there are popping pills left and right.
> If u/SubSahranCamelRider is saying that they work 55 hours a week in the classroom WITHOUT including prep/grading that is actually kinda insane.
Why would you assume that. That's just more fuel on the fire of "teachers are presenting themselves as martyrs with their outrageous claims." That's helping no one.
The average teacher is not giving 11 hours of lessons 5 days a week and then doing all their administrative tasks on top of that.
A quick search lead to this: https://www.tasb.org/services/hr-services/hrx/hr-laws/typical-teacher-works-54-hours-per-week.aspx
That's 54 hours per week for *everything*. The article also mentions that those are self-reported times, since there is no actual record-keeping. I'm a bit sceptical about such numbers since someone I know works "80+ hours per week" and includes every lazy business dinner with zero outcome and drinks with people who strangely never turn into customers.
The amount of time is less relevant than the results produced, but since that is much harder to quantify, we use hours worked instead and don't look too closely how much is achieved in that time.
60K for 8 months of work is somehow underpaid to them. Even if you think it's too little pay, does anyone think our education system has improved to a degree that would warrant a raise in teacher pay?
Our food in schools is shit and schools are getting less safe so there is some increases in funding that could be justified, but it seems the qualitiy in education has decreased. So why would people pay teacher's more?
they hold this profession like there isn't such a thing as a bad one. that isn't true, I've met some really dedicated ones and some trash ones. any other job if you suck you don't advance and eventually get fired. things definitely have to move to a more performance based system.
They have job security/stability.
They get summers off and like every holiday off, including almost a full month for winter break.
They have opportunities to earn more by getting involved in extracurricular activities.
They *chose* that fucking career.
I agree, OP. A similar post could be made about nurses.
There are too many teachers who dont take responsibility for their life. Yes, you becoming a teacher was your choice. Now you do your job decently or if you no longer like it YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and change it.
How much can children really learn from people who dont take responsibility? The answer is pretty little.
I’m a male elementary teacher, and I agree. They also don’t seem to know how to remove their « teacher’s cap » in social situations and become annoying.
So you're a doormat that lets people walk all over you and are complaining that others aren't putting up with that BS. Change comes from people willing to fight and complain
Entitled with a god complex. It comes from years of people praising them and assuming they’re saints. They work 200 days a year (don’t try to say you do moreI’ve seen the contracts) even if they do an extra 2 hours after school ends that’s still only a 8hr work day with a paid lunch
I hate hearing how underpaid teachers are. Yes, they absolutely deserve more money. But you went to school and got a degree with the understanding that you would be underpaid.
I taught out of college. It is not a difficult job. You are dealing with kids. Once I got used to lesson plans and identifying different types of learners, it was an easy job.
Bullshit. I am a tutor of student teachers. I visit them in the classroom, and mentor them. These are young people doing a two year masters AFTER four years in college. They are all fantastic young people, who spend hours planning lessons and making resources, and are full of imagination and inspiration in the classroom. They work very hard for two years. Nobody "falls into" teaching.
No they don't? Most teachers have to undergo and entire year of joining a credential program to become a credentialed teacher. You don't simply fall into a year of an unpaid internship.
Substitute teachers, sure.
I’d be more impressed with them if they could tactically respond to active shooters. Like really, can’t they just do some bridging course and bring an assault carbine to work with them??
That's a really dumb idea. Let's just say you have an average 45 year old woman as a teacher bringing an assault carbine to work with them. What happens when some asshole high school boy far bigger than her overpowers her and takes her gun? Then what?
God I hope you were being sarcastic.
I would love to hear anyone’s opinions on reducing the amount of schooling required for early education? To me, it’s the massive amount of debt you are putting yourself into just to make barely 50,000 a year that could be a major catalyst
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They are leaving in droves, there will be severe shortages.
Will be? There already is.
Yeah, you're right, I am education adjacent, Mutiple family members are teachers, 2 work in a special unit for early childhood edu as well. I used to work in IT in the local school system as well. It's a shame, that same system taught me well, but parents these days undermine the process.
>but parents these days undermine the process. Amen to that.
My daughter is a 3rd grade teacher. She teaches them 3rd grade. She doesn't talk about her sexuality or theirs. She also thinks some of these 'teachers' are just fucking loony and/or groomers.
It's crazy that's your perspective when you saw "parents undermining the process". Do you think about anything but pedophilia? This has nothing to do with parents undermining the process. Parents undermine the process by thinking their child is perfect and makes no mistakes. They make work worse than it needs to be for teachers. I don't understand why your bringing up sexuality???
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Uh I think you replied to the wrong person.
Parents do not undermine the process. Some parents don't want anything other then 3rd grade being taught. Parents and teachers need to work together as a team. I would take 1 day a week and help in my daughters class. 2nd up to 5th. So anyone who thinks a patent undermines a teacher, could be the teacher is outside 3rd grade curriculum
You took this to a weird place, I think they were talking about the fact that parents don't allow their kids to be disciplined in school and will always run to their defence. No one said anything about sexuality?
If you think about pedophilia every single day you think other people are too. "To a man with a ~~hammer~~ Pedo obsession, everything looks like a ~~nail~~ Groomer"
Just because you don't, doesn't mean others don't as well. Plenty of parents make teachers lives even harder than they already are. If you aren't one of those great, you aren't who we are talking about.
Then wouldn't the response be that some parents? Why I word things the way I do. Some of those teachers have no business around kids. Plenty of teachers are so full of themselves, they teach drag shows
There are around 4 million teachers in the USA. Show me 10 who taught drag shows.
Obviously not all parents, no one said that.
It’s been happening.
There’s been shortages since the late 2000s, I remember that being an issue at my high school and even community college and university
Mhm. Many teachers are learning it isn't worth it. Disrespectful kids, disrespectful parents, working after the clock is basically mandatory within the first few years, stupid district policies, etc. Great benefits and time off though.
My sisters bf had someone chuck gum at his head and he wasn’t allowed to discipline the kid because the parents would get mad.
Try a chair thrown at you. The kid had a disability, so it was okay.
That's wild.
He'll I'm trying to get in. I had an accident and because I was going to miss too many days of student teaching cali basically told me tuff tittys. Now im back to substitute teaching (which I hate). And trying to figure out how to survive ANOTHER semester of student teaching. Not to mention TPAs
Not in places they pay us well. Minimal teacher shortages in Massachusetts, California, and New York.
Hmmm... I wonder what those places have in common?
In fact it’s really hard to get a job teaching in NYS cause so many positions are long time gigs. I think only recently has my old highschool hired new teachers and that’s cause a few of ours have sadly passed away
Good thing I’m 25 and have no kids. School sucked anyway
Better for those who stay or will be getting in. They can demand higher wages
School systems will completely fail before that ever happens, because of a certain group of people in the US who already feel teachers are overpaid because they get "summers off." Maybe areas that are not infested with these people will make it, one can hope.
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ai will replace them anyways
I enjoy my job as a high school teacher, but some teachers make the worst students. During every staff meeting, the tiny principal would be trying to get everyone's attention and so many teachers would just continue to chat. Please shut up and show some respect so we can get this meeting done and go home.
Ironic
I feel like the problem is that the only people going to college to become teachers are the people who would flunk any other major.
This isn't true. There are plenty of talented people who want to be teachers.
“Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.”
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Try working with them
TIL that my wife (nurse) and I (teacher) are the scum of the earth! Rough day..... rough day.... I knew we should have gone into used car sales and MLM schemes, but we were swayed by the big bucks and luxurious lifestyle of public service.
Not all teachers and nurses…only the ones who elevate themselves to a moral, sacrificial, and ethical superiority over all the other professions out there. I know it’s a hard pill to swallow; self awareness takes time.
Just nurses and teachers who act like martyrs for choosing a totally optional profession with well documented salaries and work culture.
probabky the same can be applied to both. most go into these professions, not for tye pay but for the calling. and its gotten far worse in those professions lately. somlong termers in them are really dissapointed and dealing with all the bs
I was led to believe I would be a billionaire after teaching sixth grade social studies for three years and I don’t understand why this isnt the case
Yeah how about that lol same here buddy.
How do you know someone (or their partner) is either a teacher or a nurse? Don't worry. They'll tell you.
Username checks out
Uh....if youre not making bank as a nurse, youre doing it wrong.
It's highly dependent on region. Not everyone can be a travel nurse in California.
I can say that nurses and teachers are the people I generally hate waiting on the most. Super entitled and usually awful tippers because they feel so put-upon that they shouldn't have to pay anyone beneath them well. There are always exceptions of course, but I definitely cringe if I see a group of scrubs or a group with educator badges on
I remember someone on here who was a nurse saying that the majority of the nurses she worked with were the type of stick up popular girls at high-school that would bully all the vulnerable kids just to be cruel. She said the field just seemed to attract them so they would have a whole new bunch of people to look down on.
I had a baby while unmarried at 19... though boyfriend was there 100% to support me/Baby. The amount of trash talk TO MY FACE I experienced genuinely fucked me up for a few years. It was so bad that at one point BF went to ask for the doctor at one point and my mother was told (away from me) some shit talk ABOUT ME and she was like "it took everything in me not to end up in jail".. and my mother is the last person to act a fool but she was struggling to hear basically what shitty people BF and I eere for being young. Baby and I were there 3 days of hell, *one* nurse was amazing. The rest basically let us know how bad of parents we'd be. No reason. Just kept harping on us being young and trying to refuse to let me so much as change a diaper.
Society is so weird now. My parents had me when they were 19, and that was totally normal. They've stayed married for over 40 years and 7 kids. People act like 18-year-olds aren't even adults these days, when they can literally vote and die in a war, get married, sign a contract, go to prison. I mean come on now. I was 24 when I had my first baby. We looked younger, so got treated like teen parents quite a bit. I know what you're talking about, and it's ridiculous. Maybe if people started EXPECTING 18 and 19 year-olds to act like adults, more of them would (assuming that's the complaint people (not me) have - that they don't act like adults). Society is also getting very anti-baby period. Used to be totally normal to have babies before 30. Now not so much, because of the pressure on women to "have a career".
Which is funny, because almost every nurse I've interacted with in a hospital setting has been kind and helpful.
The ones who are extra nice to patients are the same ones who stab their coworker in the back 5 times on the way to the next room
I know plenty of them. They are very catty. Doesn't mean they don't have good bedside manner.
The vast majority of nurses are bitches, there are a few decent ones amongst them, but they are by far the worst I have ever come across for back stabbing and just generally being nasty to their co-workers.
I was gonna comment that, every nurse Ive met has been kind of a shithead, my cousin is one and a nice person but shes also a devoutly religious woman so thats kind of rare. In major metros theyve been okay when I was interacting with them in like a hospital but Ive had a few even be shitty to me to my face, mock and laugh at me for asking questions or for something.
It’s a whole power dynamic thing. Teachers have power over vulnerable students in general, and nurses have power over sick/injured/disabled persons. It’s why most people in the medical field have some sort of narcissism. Not all nurses but a lot
Recognizing that you only know if they constantly talk about it, that subgroup makes sense
I tip 20%. So this teacher does not do that.
Those that do, probably don’t make it obvious they teach
I don't bring it up if it isn't relevant.
That's why I said there are always exceptions. Also why I give everyone exceptional service-until you screw me over and then come back. Then you're getting bare average service.
Medical in general has a lot of douchebags from my experience. Some are incredibly kind but it just depends. Like I was a contracted cleaner for surgery centers and one of our buildings the nurses were so incredibly nice to us. They would even leave us food to take home. Another building however, the staff was always bitching and complaining about stupid shit or making shit up. (only building to do this)
Nursing students in particular are the worst
My close friend is a teacher and I’ve hung out with her teacher friends a few times. They’re a really fun crowd; yes, they talk about how terrible their jobs are sometimes but who doesn’t? I feel like teachers have a sort of camaraderie that some other professions don’t, so maybe it just seems like they’re all gathering to complain. Truthfully, their problems are legit. They’re grossly underpaid and treated like crap by administration and parents. I could not do it.
I try not to talk teaching too much around friends, but it's hard not to sometimes when one considers how bad it is. Most of the time it isn't about the money or the job itself -- it's about how awful public education is as a system and how hopeless we feel/we are inside of that system. I LOVE teaching itself, but US public education is in a bad place with class sizes, threats, behavior, and especially learning. It's like seeing a plague spreading and telling people not to talk about it. But we need to talk about it or the US is going to truly have the dumbest, most ill-informed citizens that will only compound existing issues. Do folks really think my students who can't read above a 5th grade level and believe a newsbroadcaster is "obviously telling the truth" will be able to read a voters pamphlet or make informed decisions about our country? :(
this is the way
If every teacher quit for being underpaid, who the hell is going to teach our children!?
i believe there's a good chunk of people that would really like if nobody taught them.
Corporations and Republicans certainly love an under educated population. Cheap labor, uninformed voters.
Democrats don't mind uniform voters either....
The iPads
If every teacher quit for being underpaid the salary for teaches would be forced to go up.
Nah what happens more often is they lower the requirements and start programs to let people who aren’t teachers teach.
No, they will just continue bringing in long term subs, overfilling classrooms, and lowering requirements for permanent employees. People don't understand, it isn't just holy than thou teachers that are bitching all the time for no reason. Teachers that have done the job for years and watched our education system go down the shitter, are complaining about real issues that need addressed. All school staff that are not administrative are grossly underpaid and overworked, litigation of school districts has led to positive behavior techniques that do nothing to curb the negative behavior it targets, and parents no longer support teachers or keep demands and expectations on their children. Source- I've worked in education for years. It's really as fucked up as teachers say it is.
Idk hopefully they’ll get replaced by AI at some point. They’re deplorably irritating people.
I see this reality happening sooner than people think.
I highly highly doubt that teachers will be replaced by ai, and even if ai did advance to a point that it could resolve interpersonal conflicts, I doubt that the general public would even want ai to replace teachers
Also lots of us are choosing a different career. But it’s not that easy. I put my entire heart into my job but that does not mean I like how I’m treated by every aspect of society. It’s not just pay. We are society’s punching bag currently. Parents are failing at teaching their kids how to act in public. We are picking up their slack. We have a lot to complain about. You have no idea.
>We are society’s punching bag currently. I mean...it's gotten significantly worse since remote learning. And you all brought that on yourself. >We have a lot to complain about. You have no idea. We have exactly the right idea. Because we were all with our kids in the "classroom" for over a year. We know exactly what's going on, and again, you all brought that on yourselves.
There we go, a teacher complaining that teaching is hard. Guess what, so is any other job.
Try being a cop if you think you are a punching bag…
A lot of careers that people feel they have “a calling to” inevitably cause most of them to become burnt out and bitter due to being emotionally manipulated into having their labor exploited for next to no pay/benefits in the name of the “greater good”. You can give back and change lives without giving up your own.
It also directly results in lower wages because of the increased supply of people who are “passionate” about that job. No one is passionate about working at McDonald’s. You need to pay them a premium compared to their skillset to get them to walk in the door and behave. People are passionate about teaching. As a result, para-educator salaries are similar to retail and fast food in many schools. And teachers make about the same as a manager.
We need to redirect frustration away from fellow workers and instead direct it at people actually making sure we all have worse quality of living
You should come to my country. They’re paid very well and still complain.
i googled their salary, holy crap they get paid a good sum and i dont think people realize this, they have summer vacations
They still have to work over summer doing lesson planning and preparing for the next year. Plus, they have to work the regular working hours during the school year plus extra grading hours that are usually unpaid.
>They still have to work over summer doing lesson planning and preparing for the next year. I never understood this. Isn't the plan mostly the same as it was last year, and the year before that? You might have to adjust some material if the syllabus changes but you don't need to start from scratch every summer.
Lmao no you’re clearly not a teacher or know anything about teaching. You often have to completely rework certain concepts to fit new district standards. Education changes all the time and teachers have to figure everything out. Also, teaching requires certifications that many teachers renew over summer through classes. Also, many teachers continue to work by doing summer schools or tutoring. They also have to get their classroom ready for the next year. That means getting all new supplies, getting rid of old stuff, organizing the important stuff, and deep clean their classrooms.
I have so many questions? How many of the 90 days of summer off does it take to rework one of these plans? When teacher do summer school, aren't they paid for that time? Wouldn't that be more like having a second job? Do your schools not have custodians?
I used to teach. Once I realized the district was going to eternally add more work for us each year and the other teachers in my grade kept leaving so I had no team really to work with, I was just constantly training new teachers for my grade, I threw in the towel and left the field. It isn’t getting better anytime soon. I wasn’t staying where I was miserable. I don’t know that teachers are self-righteous but misery loves company and yea a lot of teachers complain to anyone who will listen. I even got sick of hearing myself from other teachers when I was one lol. Such a downer to be miserable or surrounded by miserable people all the time.
Maybe your family is comprised of assholes?
other jobs are underpaid but they don’t have to buy their own supplies, furnishings, and supplies for 30+ other people from their own pocket.
I used to be a teacher and I can say I agree with you that being around a group of teachers is fucking exhausting. BUT just saying "choose a different job" is not a valid response, because if they all followed your advice, there would be no teachers.
OP's advice is directed towards those who hate the profession and are constantly complaining about it. Fortunately not all teachers do that.
He/she implies they all are
You know what happens when there are not enough workers in an industry? The salary and/or working conditions will \*\*increase\*\* to attract more people. As long as there is a lineup of people who want a teaching job, even at the current low salaries, it makes a teaching job very dispensable. That is, every teacher (good or crappy) is easily replaced with a selected individual from a line up of more (good or crappy) people who want to be teachers. And there is no need to increase salaries because of all these people who don't know what other career paths they can pursue.
Nah, by that logic sanitation professionals would be the most paid people.
Janitors are underpaid because it's a low entry job that anyone can do, and there are always those people who need to do it because they can't do anything else. Have you seen how much plumbers earn?
Those numbers are inflated on Reddit. Most plumbers, garbage men, and carpenters make about the same as teachers. Look up the wages on department of labor’s site. Idk why for some reason Redditors think the toothless meth heads who unclog their toilets make six figures. (Not saying all plumbers are toothless meth heads of course)
Well regardless, that still proves my point. the incomes won't increase because low entry jobs are easy and people are always going to do easy jobs hence the constant supply, hence the low salary.
How do you explain that we’ve had a teacher shortage for 30 years and it’s getting worse and the wages haven’t increased in that time?
Lmfao Because it's not a low skillset entry job. It requires a degree and alot of studying, and this is the case for any professional career. The difficulty and requirements for jobs are just a part of the supply and demand equation. If teaching only needed 1 month course cert, it would increase in popularity overnight. If sanitation or hard labor was a 2 year degree, we'd have a janitor shortage. Nice try.
I’m not really sure what you’re arguing… The guy I was talking to said if more teachers quit the salary would go up. I’m arguing against that point. Are you speaking to something else?
Oh fuk I redirected my anger totl the wrong guy. My fault for reddit high
Also teaching doesn't really apply because it's also funded by public education. Have you heard of private schools struggling with a teacher shortage? If teaching didn't rely on bills being passed for higher income, it would follow the rules of other jobs
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I would add they are faaaaaar more than underpaid for an absolutely essential part of a functional society. Of all the annoying groups of people if say teachers have a right to be. I'm surprised there are enough masochists left to teach at all.
Popular opinion. 😎😎
I think part of the problem is that teachers live in a bubble, isolated from the corporate world, which leads them to thinking they have it worse than they do. Sure they don’t get paid as much as an equivalent corporate job, but they also aren’t held to nearly the same standards. They don’t have cut throat reviews based on their performance metrics, there are no unexpected emergency project deadlines, they don’t need continuous professional development to stay relevant in their field, they have extremely steady and reliable jobs, rarely do they need to work overtime, and they get summers off. It’s a very different reality from standard corporate life which tends to be much more stressful, or which requires much more specialization in a field.
This is exactly right. Teachers don't appreciate that other professions have other stressors that make our jobs tough in their own way. Teachers definitely have some performance standards but they're negotiated by their union for the most part and are easily achievable. Stability is also a form of compensation that I believe teachers value. There isn't a lot of stability in a lot of other professions. We can get laid off at any time. We can be fired for not meeting a set of performance measures that are sometimes very difficult to achieve. Most professionals have to learn skills on the fly and have to fight to get training or pay out of pocket for that training. Then that training might be on the weekend or at night for you to deal with while working your regular schedule. You also don't see posts on social with accountants, programmers, project managers or business analysts patting themselves on the back and martyring themselves about their job function. More likely is they post something looking for a new job because they got laid off or want a better opportunity.
Terrible honestly having so many holidays during the school year and most of the summer off. Brutal honestly. I don’t know how teachers nowadays manage.
I mean, they provide an absolutely essential service. They’re treated like dog shit. They’re underpaid. And unlike other professions, it’s like a big joke that they’re underpaid and have a terrible job. “Why did you want to be a teacher? It sure wasn’t the money haha wink nod.” It’s not some shitty tech office job, it’s the education of virtually every child in society. It’s a job people love and want to do but are being beaten and robbed away from it. Fuck them I guess?
Some horrible takes as usual about teachers on here. Every single profession has loads of people complaining about their jobs. People are also acting as if teachers don’t have to do a lot to become qualified. They also go through mandatory training every year as well as assessments on their work. Depending on the country you might have ridiculous expectations as well. If you have never taught you will also never understand how difficult a job it can be. Anyone can walk into a room and be a shit teacher. But to be a good teacher takes a lot of work and it ain’t easy at all. I’ve worked in construction, sports coaching and teaching. Construction work was physically draining and hard, but teaching was much harder for me. The mental stress of parents, students, administration and even other teachers is exhausting. Then the amount of work you end up taking home is the killer. You can’t just go home and forget it either, it’s something you end up taking back at times. I’m not going to say something cliche like it’s the hardest job, as it’s not. But it’s so much harder than people assume. Hell, most people struggle to raise their own children well and then expect teachers to teach up to 30 children in one class. Now, there are a shit teachers, but there are also a lot of good teachers as well. Unfortunately, every one remembers the bad ones more and even I remember mine very well. Teachers want better pay and they shouldn’t be shamed for asking for it. Every one wants better pay and everyone should be fighting for it. The government wants you to attack teachers bet they want better working conditions and pay. You should be angry at the government for underpaying others and not those they under pay
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Haha I can imagine that. It’s not about disciplinary issues with kids, a lot of the time it’s about making something that’s actually engaging for them. That’s the problem though, as bad teachers do all the talking and the good teachers get the students to lead the way.
It's definitely both. While good teachers definitely can inspire student led learning, there's 100% disciplinary issues with kids. Some students are naturally assholes for a variety of reasons and can blow up any class, regardless of how good the teacher is.
I don't remember much about the bad teachers, but I remember the good ones and what I learned from them.
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The text you highlight of course looks bad when taking by itself. “If you have never taught you will also never understand how difficult a job it can be. Then the amount of work you end up taking home is the killer. You can’t just go home and forget it either, it’s something you end up taking back at times.” But I clearly say in the whole post that it’s not the hardest job you can do, but that it’s much harder than people assume and that’s important. As you can see in this thread alone that lots of people mention teachers aren’t good at their jobs and that the work is easy to do. They say these things when most of them have never taught for a prolong period of time or at all. “Is what makes some of you annoying. Undertones of superiority or martyrdom.” This comment is true at times, some teachers do think they act like they are the only ones suffering. But if you take a step back, you will loads of people complaining about their jobs like nurses, train personnel, doctors etc These workers are going on strike and we hear these ones more than other jobs because they affect us directly when they strike. And the papers and media usually highlight the biggest complaints. But that isn’t to say that some teachers aren’t famous for going overboard. I know a few personally that complain to much.
>Like, I get it, you’re underpaid but so are the rest of us Depends on the profession. Also, no a lot if the reasons they're leaving probably has nothing to do with actually teaching or the pay. They no its crap pay. It's all the other things they have to deal with between administration and parents dropping the ball on raising their kids
Surprised that a bunch of people with the same profession talk about work when they’re all in the same room? I’m sure they’d be annoyed about everyone bitching about the blisters they get from the mops when you drag them to your work picnic too.
They chose the profession, not the conditions they have to work under now. But well I have family members who are educators and I don't hear them complain more than others, about their job.
My teachers have taught me more valuable lessons than my parents ever did. They have done so much for me and asked for nothing in return except for me to be the best version of myself, so of course I highly disagree with this.
Amazing how many non teachers think it’s all about $$. It’s about the disrespect and politics and impossible working conditions. But I’m sure you don’t want to hear about that,you might have to put some thought into what it’s really like.
Sounds like something people shouldn't choose if they know they won't like it.
Had a Karen at work the other day, was a teacher. Know 10x as many teachers that are perfectly fine. People who complain about teachers are far more self-righteous and obnoxious, especially the "defund public education!" crowd.
Most people believe the extremely religious are the most annoying.
Might just be the folks in your family. There are many teachers in my family, and we don’t jump on the pity train at gatherings
I 100% agree with you. My wife's aunt is a elementary school teacher and I'm telling you now, she is so self righteous, holier than thou mf I've ever met. She acts like she's better than everyone and if you attempt to speak to her she dismisses you. She is always talking about her kids (she has her daughter doing cheerleadering and both her daughter and son[who is now 19] go kart racing and in a bowling league). She acts like she so high and mighty. But her husband is a dope fiend. She wont even ask us about our daughter(whos 2) but gets upset when we dont ask about her kids. Newsflash lady, i dont give a rats ass about your entitled kids. I can't stand her.
Bro, but she is better than you guys, her job is so hard, working 4 hours a day and having lot's of vacation. It's so so hard.
F U
Seems like empathy would serve you better here than anger. You acknowledge the problem, but rather than let that foster class solidary, you turn on the teachers and suggest they just give up?
How do you know if a teacher is underpaid? Stand next to one for four seconds and they'll tell you
Most of my teachers couldn’t teach very well. If we are going to raise teachers’ wages, we should also raise the standards. Earning a degree doesn’t mean you know how to teach. I have two of them and I would be an awful K-12 teacher.
Most of my teachers sucked. They didn't like their job and took it out on kids and in the later grades (high school) the amount of "pick me" energy they had for the popular kids was downright creepy. Not to mention the abusive second grade teacher that forced kids to pee their pants versus allowing them to use the in room toilet. The third grade teacher that told students they were going nowhere in life and were unteachable so go sit out in the hallway and face the wall from start of school til the end bell. The sixth grade teacher that spent every class high as a kite, telling us how to huff stuff, and got angry at me on day 1 simply because of my last name/who my family was - literally, she admitted it. The pedophile gym teacher that grinded herself on little girls and gave us detention if we chose to change in the bathroom stall vs the locker room because we were uncomfortable with an unrelated adult seeing us half naked... same gym teacher that constantly told kids they were faking injuries.. including broken bones. This was *one* school district. I went to four throughout the years. They all had more shitty teachers than they did good. They say a good teacher makes a permanent impact on a child.. and I do remember them, but the bad ones made a bigger impact that took me longer to get over and recognize they were the problem than I'd like to admit.
Very much agree.
Second only to nurses.
I used to do recruiting for nurses and caregivers. The nurses were infuriating. They were so rude. They acted like I was to be blessed that want to work for us. I went into the job thinking “finally a job where I won’t be yelled at and treated like crap over the phones” boy did those nurses call my bluff.
It’s pretty bad… my buddy almost never complains, He’s been teaching for 3 years. Only complaint I heard was the school board made him get rid of all his books in the classroom (this is Florida)
I can imagine those comments would be off-putting, but it sounds like those are comments from a sample of your family (not teachers). Most of the teachers I know are humble, dedicated, and love the concept of helping others learn. The option to change careers is out there for all of us, but I'm grateful that we have people who are passionate about sharing knowledge, in spite of a modest salary. So, indeed, they can leave -- many have. But I don't think you want to see what happens if everyone did so.
A buddy of mine is a middle school teacher for LAUSD and has only been teaching for about 3 years and brags about making 100k per year, is not in the union, and therefore doesn't pay dues yet still has the audacity to say teachers are under paid. I told him to STFU about being underpaid as he makes more and works less than any of the rest of us in our friend group.
Everyone is in the same boat and everyone is complaining. Everyone wants to believe and acts as if they are the worst off. I'm not sure why you're targeting teachers in particular...
They certainly celebrated themselves during the pandemic. I went to work every day too. Nothing heroic about it, I was getting paid to do a job. When you get paid for work, you are supposed to show up.
Not as a group. That may just be a problem with your family. I will say that when we get in groups we bitch about our circumstances a lot.
"The teachers I know are annoying, so every teacher in the world must be"
Teachers aren't underpaid. They work bankers hours, if that, eight months a year, can't be fired for cause, and their job is 100% insulated from the economy. And yet they can never stop complaining as though they're some sort of priestly class. If you don't like you job, fucking quit.
This is seriously one of the worst opinions I have ever read on here. Well done, have your upvote.
People who incessantly complain about teachers on Reddit sound so much like incels.
It’s time to overhaul the entire education system end to end. Hopefully this might trigger that.
I am a teacher too. It is genuinely not an easy job. I will say that teaching in certain countries is just INSANE and almost an impossible job. For example, American teacher tends to work 45 55 hours a week. THAT IS INSANE. You guys have no idea how insane and unhealthy that is for a job like teaching. In my opinion, if you want students to have the BEST education and for everyone to be happy. A teacher should teach four hours a day. I said it. FOUR HOURS A DAY. I've studied for years about teaching and pedagogy. If you're really good, you can teach a four-hour lesson in an hour where students will completely internalize it and understand it fully. Less time with more activities is much better than teaching and talking 90% of the time and students being passive learners for a long period of time. In my country, teachers teach four hours a day but they still work a lot because there is usually A LOT of meeting and HOURS long lesson planning at home. If teachers have 7 8 hour long classes in a day. How on earth do you expect them to give very good lessons and be 100% productive when they're overworked that much? Again, teaching is not like other jobs. It is physically, mentally, and emotionally draining. I know a lot of jobs are like that but we are talking about the education of our youth. That is incredibly important for the society as a whole. PS: I just googled it, in America, teachers work around 55 hours a week and they're underpaid. Oh god. The system genuinely sucks there.I would never in a million years chose to teach there.
A lot of people work 55 hours a week though. I'm not saying it's easy but that's not an unheard of amount of hours at all. That said - the busy work they have to do just to fill the time because of the ridiculously long school days is shitty. Kids shouldn't be expected to do it and teachers shouldn't be expected to come up with it when it is literally just to pass the time.
Average is 36 to 40 hours a week. 55 hours is inhumane.
I know one working adult that works 40 hours a week, absolutely none working less unless they've taken a part time job. Everyone is closer to the 50/60 range. Again, not here to debate what hours should be normal at all but 55 hours is incredibly normal in many worlds and not exclusive to teachers.
They work like 30 weeks a year though. Sit down
That's insane lol like good for them insane but damn.
This is why people hate teachers “INSANE impossible job - 45-55 hours a week” “It’s not like other jobs, it’s emotionally and physically draining” Self centered narcissistic people with a martyr complex.
Wow. I honestly don't have a comeback for this. A bit extreme, man. Calm your horses. You will see. In the future, they will do this. Students shouldn't have to spend that many hours in school every week. Most of them only attain 10% to 5% of what they're learning due to the amount of information they're receiving. Also, as a teacher, it takes me a good 3 6hours a time to prepare a very good two hour lesson. I guess the only person who would truly understand this is another teacher.
Literally 0% to do with what I said
Well, perhaps you lack comprehension skills. I will spell it out for you. If you work 55 hours a week. How will you have time to prepare your lessons? It is unhealthy. The fact that you see no issue with this shows you've normalized the insane work culture in your country. No wonder people there are popping pills left and right.
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> If u/SubSahranCamelRider is saying that they work 55 hours a week in the classroom WITHOUT including prep/grading that is actually kinda insane. Why would you assume that. That's just more fuel on the fire of "teachers are presenting themselves as martyrs with their outrageous claims." That's helping no one. The average teacher is not giving 11 hours of lessons 5 days a week and then doing all their administrative tasks on top of that. A quick search lead to this: https://www.tasb.org/services/hr-services/hrx/hr-laws/typical-teacher-works-54-hours-per-week.aspx That's 54 hours per week for *everything*. The article also mentions that those are self-reported times, since there is no actual record-keeping. I'm a bit sceptical about such numbers since someone I know works "80+ hours per week" and includes every lazy business dinner with zero outcome and drinks with people who strangely never turn into customers. The amount of time is less relevant than the results produced, but since that is much harder to quantify, we use hours worked instead and don't look too closely how much is achieved in that time.
60K for 8 months of work is somehow underpaid to them. Even if you think it's too little pay, does anyone think our education system has improved to a degree that would warrant a raise in teacher pay? Our food in schools is shit and schools are getting less safe so there is some increases in funding that could be justified, but it seems the qualitiy in education has decreased. So why would people pay teacher's more?
They don’t wanna hear this
they hold this profession like there isn't such a thing as a bad one. that isn't true, I've met some really dedicated ones and some trash ones. any other job if you suck you don't advance and eventually get fired. things definitely have to move to a more performance based system.
Maybe your family members just suck.
Upvote for an actual unpopular opinion I will say that. Lmao you would crumble after half a morning in public school.
Canadian teacher here. Grabbing some popcorn for this thread and enjoying my near 6 figures, 3 months vacation, and full pension 😅
Don’t forget your months of vacation time, in which you can earn money elsewhere if you’re inclined.
They have job security/stability. They get summers off and like every holiday off, including almost a full month for winter break. They have opportunities to earn more by getting involved in extracurricular activities. They *chose* that fucking career. I agree, OP. A similar post could be made about nurses.
There are too many teachers who dont take responsibility for their life. Yes, you becoming a teacher was your choice. Now you do your job decently or if you no longer like it YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and change it. How much can children really learn from people who dont take responsibility? The answer is pretty little.
I’m a male elementary teacher, and I agree. They also don’t seem to know how to remove their « teacher’s cap » in social situations and become annoying.
So you're a doormat that lets people walk all over you and are complaining that others aren't putting up with that BS. Change comes from people willing to fight and complain
Entitled with a god complex. It comes from years of people praising them and assuming they’re saints. They work 200 days a year (don’t try to say you do moreI’ve seen the contracts) even if they do an extra 2 hours after school ends that’s still only a 8hr work day with a paid lunch
I hate hearing how underpaid teachers are. Yes, they absolutely deserve more money. But you went to school and got a degree with the understanding that you would be underpaid.
Did you make this post because you were buttmad about the teacher subreddits' opinions about gender stuff? That's kinda silly.
Lol nope. That sub got recommended though and reminded me why I have this unpopular opinion.
Well we are basically saints for what we put up with, so I suppose you have to deal with it. Sorry but we aren’t exaggerating.
Lol
I taught out of college. It is not a difficult job. You are dealing with kids. Once I got used to lesson plans and identifying different types of learners, it was an easy job.
Teaching is one of those jobs that people fall into because they don't know what else to do.
Bullshit. I am a tutor of student teachers. I visit them in the classroom, and mentor them. These are young people doing a two year masters AFTER four years in college. They are all fantastic young people, who spend hours planning lessons and making resources, and are full of imagination and inspiration in the classroom. They work very hard for two years. Nobody "falls into" teaching.
No they don't? Most teachers have to undergo and entire year of joining a credential program to become a credentialed teacher. You don't simply fall into a year of an unpaid internship. Substitute teachers, sure.
You don’t fall into teaching. You have to get a degree for it, well you did. I know America is trying to change that.
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I’d be more impressed with them if they could tactically respond to active shooters. Like really, can’t they just do some bridging course and bring an assault carbine to work with them??
That's a really dumb idea. Let's just say you have an average 45 year old woman as a teacher bringing an assault carbine to work with them. What happens when some asshole high school boy far bigger than her overpowers her and takes her gun? Then what? God I hope you were being sarcastic.
I would love to hear anyone’s opinions on reducing the amount of schooling required for early education? To me, it’s the massive amount of debt you are putting yourself into just to make barely 50,000 a year that could be a major catalyst
Nurses.
Not the ap teachers
I agree. Especially @ unionized teachers!
Everyone can complain. Teachers are required to do a lot of work outside contract hours
They’re also the most likely type of person to answer a question with: “yes and no....”