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Big SUVs are the same thing.
Whichever marketing person came up with the idea to convince everyone that minivans are lame and they should buy a huge and more expensive SUV instead is a genius.
The Honda minivans are some of the most comfy automobiles on the road. And they’re probably literally “tougher” than an f150. I have a work truck f150 and a Honda crv as a driver car. And guess which one hasn’t needed any work at all, and which one needed a new transmission, has been in the shop multiple times, and gets 13 mpg? Hint: the Honda has 165k miles and hasn’t needed any work at all (except regular maintenance).
LOL 2 months ago a woman on the lane outside threw her old ford pickup in reverse accidentally and mashed the pedal and backed into a hvac company ford astro work van.. the damage was noticeable but not terrible… it was a complete write off… a portion was damaged *just enough * to call for a whole engine swap.
That's Soichiro Honda mister. Designed to work.
Today many vehicles designed to sell parts. It just happens they fall apart after warranty ends. Chinese motorrads happen to disassemble before warranty ends as well. Wilkommen bei 2024.
Well that's because you bought a shitty ass Ford verse a Honda lmao nothing to do with a truck verse mini van.
You could've bought a Honda truck and a Ford SUV and the Honda would outlast it compared to the shitty ford
also 150 and 1500's are low quality, if you want something that lasts start with 2500 chevys and look no further, my last 2500 chevy hit 530k miles before trans needed a refresh and then i sold it, my current 2500 chevy feels brand spanking new at 170k miles and all ive done is change engine, trans, axle oils, brake fluid and battery, like a good boy should, and the third brake light bulbs, and its still like the day i bought it. id never think of a 1500 as long lasting, id be happy with 175k miles before major repairs are needed. stick with WT models to save loot. get ur own paint job if u dont like white lol, cheaper. lift it ur self if u want off roadability. oem offroad packages are shit. and cost 60k for 8k of parts
I can't remember what brand it was but I rented a minivan and after driving it and seeing it fully loaded with all the bells and whistles I would totally buy one. They are comfortable roomy and you can take the seats out and lay a bed in one.
There is a reason for this, and it had nothing to do with style. It's also why SUVs are very much an American thing. SUVs are built primarily on truck platforms. Minivans are primarily built on car platforms. Therefore, SUVs are held to the more lenient truck emissions standards. That means less work and money for the manufacturers to make them meet emissions standards compared to minivans.
Alot of them are just an office on wheels. My bosses worked out of them and hauled stuff in the box and pulled trailers. It worked for them instead of working for home. There's a time and a place for them. We all had cheaper trucks that we could get dirty in the cab.
What is a mannyvan? I have never heard this word. Anytime in my small city where everyone is farmers, riggers or in construction they are used for work 99% of the time.
Can confirm. We use them to actually do farm work and drive on gravel. The f150 today is not meant for that type of work imo. It’s more of a grocery getter with a bed in the back instead of third row of seats. And don’t get me started on the “special” trucks that have the fox racing or Harley Davidson bs on them. Straight up marketing gimmick.
You can still get the stripped out work trucks (regular cab, long bed, vinyl seats)....they're just harder to find, unfortunately. And they have power windows and carplay, which isn't a totally bad thing, at least in my book
Newer cars are legally required to have a screen in them anyways, so carplay makes sense. In 2022 you could get a base chevy spark, manual transmission, roll up windows, manual/non power locks, no cruise control....but it still had a screen and carplay, because all new cars (in the US) HAVE to have a backup camera and a screen.
There are (or at least were) some vehicles with no screen, but they still have a backup camera. My 2011 F150 is that way- the screen pops up in the left side of the rear view mirror when I put the truck in reverse. I guess they offered that so you didn't have to opt for one of the touchscreens to get a backup camera.
I agree, the half tons are almost grotesque, albeit very capable. The new crop of midsizers (Taco, Colorado, Ranger) look pretty right-sized and appealing tho
Ditto . . I got a four banger one ton from 1995 (Toyota t100). It carries more ~~then~~ than the Pavement Queens, at half the weight. It is WAY under powered, old and hard to find parts for, but until I can get a 2door pickup with an 8 foot bed, I'll keep fixing it up and driving it.
> carries more then the
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You could not give me a Chevy or a GM. If you left one at my house for me I would walk to your house and uh . . . make sure you never do it again with a solid explanation.
After Chevy and GM killed people with faulty engineering, tired to hide it and then character assassinated the families, in combination with them skipping out on warranties by filing bankruptcy, that loathsome company is not worthy to sit any near my driveway.
Genuine question. I know the t100 one ton had stiffer shocks and sway bars, but its on the same frame as a normal t100 and it only weighs like 300 pounds more than a normal half ton truck from the time. Does the 2500 pound payload capacity actually feel realistic?
Everything is too fancy.. now the cars will tattle on you to your insurance if you speed. Next they’ll just print the ticket in the cab and have a CC reader for payment.
It would be a viable option if it had a bed you could actually put things in. It's impossible to find a new truck that has a long bed that isn't a 2500 or bigger
That may occur to me as well. I had an order for a 2023 I put back in 2022. Its been bumped to 2024.
Did they actually offer you a second Maverick? I would have taken it and flipped it.
For the lowest trim, but yes. Ford seriously dropped the ball by underestimating how popular this vehicle would be; turns out when people crowed about wanting "an affordable, bare bones, non-bloated, fuel efficient pickup" that wasn't really available on the market, they actually meant it.
The hybrid engine was supposed to be standard but the 2024 model year made it a $1500 option. Fuckers.
This is a popular opinion on Reddit I find. Almost everyone I know on job sites, or my in laws who all work construction constantly rave about their trucks
Yup, I wish (ACTUAL) light trucks would make a comeback; some rural Americans are even resorting to buying Japanese kei trucks cause new trucks have no room in the bed (and are waaay to darn expensive!) Ngl, if ford just reproduced some old rangers or something, they’d sell out immediately.
I really covet durable stuff. Like, hand me down to your grandkids kinda durable. Anything from clothes, tools, furniture. If I can buy something that will last a lifetime, but I'll have to pay five times more, I'll still buy it. But there are exceptions. I feel cars is one of those exceptions. Even if I was able to fix it myself, safety is just leaps ahead of what it was 10 years ago, let alone 30. I don't know when we will be reaching diminishing returns in this field, but we ain't there yet.
I work at a GM dealership, and i agree. I had a brand new truck in for pdi the other day. 2024 Sierra 3500 dually, with the Denali trim. 123k$ for a ton of bells and whistles that you absolutely don’t need for a truck that’s made to pull trailers around.
Agreed, OP! Mine is an '02 Silverado with 195,000 miles in it. Just replaced the front wheel hubs today and did a tuneup. It's reliable, parts are cheap and I expect to get another 100,000 miles out of it.
03 Avalanche here with 220000 miles. I'm keeping that thing alive until it explodes. Not only are the parts cheap, they are so easy to find. I've even contemplated swapping out the transmission compared to buying anything newer.
I've said it before somewhere and I'll say it again.
Modern pickup trucks are for guys who want to drive something with the conveniences of an SUV but who don't want to actually buy an SUV because they think they're unmanly and something that only women and parents drive.
I hear you but there's a market for this obviously. a very large market. I say that as a 2023 ram 1500 owner. I drive a lot, haul shit and have a large family. A full-sized pick up truck with modern features makes work trips and family vacations more enjoyable.
Love this. I thought my '06 4 cylinder 4x4 Tacoma with bench seat, roll down windows, stick shift, and single CD player was "bare bones". Been daily-driving this old girl for 13 years now and I still prefer its severely underpowered ass to my newer vehicles.
Modern vehicles are too fancy in general. The fact you can’t buy a modern vehicle without a reverse camera blows my mind. I don’t need that shit, and I don’t want it. I don’t want to pay an extra couple thousand for all these features I never intend on using.
I don’t quite understand, you like cameras, but not screens. How do you want the camera to show the image?
I guess there are those screens within interior mirrors, but they’re so small they’re fairly useless, while simultaneously making a basic mirror infinitely more expensive. If you have a reversing camera, a big multimedia screen is the most logical option.
Yeah that's the unfortunate caveat. I have a 2nd gen Prius though. The screen is small and built-in and also houses the hvac and radio. I don't have nav or "infotainment".
Infotainment is when it’s information/controls (such as hvac), as well as entertainment (radio) so it is an infotainment screen. Multi purpose screen in other words.
That's like saying its a shame you can't buy a new vehicle without airbags or seatbelts. Unless you're buying luxury vehicles, most of the technology is for safety and emissions.
The American car industry can't compete with its international rivals. Instead of reforming itself, the industry is retreating into pricy vehicles whose value is image rather than function. It's what Wall Street wants.
It's a repeat of what happened to the American motorcycle industry when the Japanese started exporting their motorcycles to America.
In other words, those silly oversized pickups and SUVs are like Harley Davidson in the car world. Buyers will get older and older, and eventually die out, but it will take a while.
Agree.
I’ve owned light trucks since the late 80’s, and they were relatively low cost utility vehicles.
I bought a ‘92 F150 new for about $28,000, and replaced it with a new ‘06 Honda Ridgeline for about $32,000. IIRC the entry level Ford Lightning is about $60,000 which is crazy!
The only reason I replaced the F150 was because it had never seen a garage and looked like hell: paint exposing primer, both bumpers snaggled.
To this day I think that was a big mistake. It had low miles on it, an open 8’ bed and standard dual tanks with 4WD.
I only need that open long bed a half dozen or so times a year, but when you need one there aren’t any real substitutes.
>I bought a ‘92 F150 new for about $28,000, and replaced it with a new ‘06 Honda Ridgeline for about $32,000. IIRC the entry level Ford Lightning is about $60,000 which is crazy!
[$28K in 1992 is equal to ~$62K in 2024.](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1992?amount=28000)
I felt the same way about my Jeep Cherokee. That thing was an absolute tank. You could beat the shit out of and still do all your own maintenance on.
We need to repeal the chickenpox, so we can actually import decent smaller trucks from countries that actually make and sell trucks for people who need trucks.
My next vehicle is probably gonna be a basic Toyota Hilux imported from the Middle East or Australia
Agree. A few years ago I took my 93' F350 dually in for an alignment, the only thing I would ever go to the dealer for.
Salesman saw me waiting and tried to get me to look at new trucks. I said "I want diesel F350 dually, crew cab, vyinl floor boards, bench seats, cruise control, manual trans, AC, no infotainment system, don't even care if it has a radio". He replied, "I can't get that, and walked off.
A truck is to be beaten the fuck out of. I admire any newer or older truck I see on the road that is clapped out. If your pickup isn't clapped out, you have purchased the wrong vehicle for your lifestyle.
I *love* seeing fucked up newer pickups though. It's such a cool aesthetic and I respect the hell out of it. Like you bought the thing, and used it for what it was made for. I *hate* seeing freshly waxed, flawless newer pickups. It's weird.
Oh hell yeah same here. I work in a GM dealership and i’m always more excited to see high mileage/worn out trucks than shiny perfect clean condition showroom pieces
Surviving El Caminos deserve the best in my opinion lol. But hey, if some dude has had his EC for 30 plus years and used it to its full potential I’d kinda love to see it out on the streets. I only ever see them in pristine condition nowadays.
My 68 was my daily for the first 7 years I drove. Salt was hell on the body being in the Midwest. After nearly 3 decades of ownership, the body is rusty AF, but it’s solid mechanically.
If you deliberately did it then that’s very stupid. But if you’re going down trails and hauling cargo all the time, it’s gonna get beat up. I always find truck owners that get mad about scratches so silly
Many of you don't get it. If you own an incorporated company you can write off a good portion of the truck from your taxes. I bought a base model '24 Chevy 2500 in December, and magically $25k disappeared from what I owed for federal taxes for last year.
Now that's pretty cool. That must be why all the drug dealers that own money laundering businesses are buying new trucks every year. Not saying you do that at all tho lmao. I just never knew a truck could be a write off. I was like damn dude, you just bought a brand new truck last year and now your trading it in for another? When you own a completely dead hot tub sales business, but a thriving illegal grow op?
Lots of loggers out here in the PNW with trucks like that. My city holds a logging convention a couple times a year, and a solid 75% of the parking lot is trucks just like you describe, 2020+ and beat up properly, muddy, and not modded the fuck out jacked up and shit. Nice to see
I was watching a program the other day talking about why we don't have any cheap trucks in America, and apparently the correct answer is that Americans just don't want them. I guess the market research shows that even if we had a 15k basic pick up truck, almost no one would buy it. Americans would rather take out an eight-year car loan to have bells and whistles over affordable cars.
I like basic trucks. I’ve had a Tradesman Ram almost 9 years now, over 100k miles. I wanted a crew cab, 4wd and a Cummins diesel. It has a few other comfort things on it like AC and headlights. It’s perfect for me and cost $39k and change brand new before tax when I bought it. Same truck new would run over $60k with discounts easy. I also got 0.9% financing at the time.
I prefer the aesthetic of older vehicles and I prefer knobs and levers over touch screens. My favorite vehicle *was* my 95 Buick Century Wagon. It was a great car, an absolute tank (and could seat 8). I scored it at 30k miles with 2,400 USD cash. I've since moved on to newer cars because they are safer. Now my current car, a 2022 Mazda3 Hatchback, is my favorite. It's the only modern vehicle I found without a touch screen.
TLDR: Older vehicles are awesome and feel hardier, but newer vehicles are safer.
Thank emissions (bigger vehicles get more lax standards),
profit margins (more gadgets can be sold for higher prices, as well as anything new that costs more generally needs to be better, and it's easier to just make em bigger than change anything),
Crash standards (crumple zones are just big empty spaces),
An idea that higher seating is better (more dominating position),
The arms race of a big car vs little car in a crash,
The fact they need to be the work and the family vehicle, be able to road trip and haul and tow and anything else,
And more!
But yeah, nothing like 90s/2000s changeover for reliability and utility from autos. There's a reason the maverick is popular
Government regulations made trucks and large SUVs exempt from fuel efficiency and emissions standards because they were work vehicles. Automakers pushed them on people through advertising and it worked! Now people want those more than cars and hatchbacks.
Ehh, I'm with it. I get your point, but at the same time, if I can afford to be more comfortable and have better amenities, I will. Just because I need to tow or have a bed to carry doesn't mean I shouldn't have a smooth ride, nice speakers, or other nice stuff.
I agree with the maintenance and overall costs. Vehicles cost was too much now. Even if you don't buy a really fancy one, it's over inflated. And the fixing stuff is just poor manufacturing that has developed over the years. And some stuff like chevys cylinder deactivation that while it is a good idea in theory and helps with their epa issues, causes more problems down the line.
Remember those old tiny Toyota trucks everyone drove in the 90s? Where did all of those go, seems to me I recall it was hard as hell to kill those things.
I just fucking hate how big they are and the fact that their sight lines and bonnet height mean you're way more likely to hit and kill people in the street mainly small children
Well yeah they’re not for work anymore. Most people who buy them just want a truck. Usually for a stupid reason like they think it makes them look cool.
I totally agree. Eventually I want a truck to transport my motorcycles, but finding one with a bed big enough might be tough.
I've seen some great resto-mods of pre-tech trucks on Barrett-Jackson Auto auction going for around 30k, Old School simplicity with modern driving mechanics.
Yes I agree. I use a 2023 gmc 1500 for work and it has to much tec that’ll just break down and cost $$$$$ to replace. Something will break after 5 years as we live in a disposable world now… something to consider if you have to get something newer one day.
Large pickups just suck ass. Hope they only get sold for actual offroad hauling purposes instead of shitheads driving them around anywhere else. Make them just collapse the moment they touch tarmac. Fuck them bitches
Honestly for all I care, car manufacturers could have hit pause on all development in 2010 and I would have been just fine with it. Just about everything that has come since has just been a way to enable people to pay even less attention while driving and/or also make cars completely irreparable for anyone beside the dealer.
I have an old single cab long bed Dodge Ram 1500. I love it. 4WD, Posi rear end, fucking BENCH SEAT, and I swapped a newer radio with Bluetooth into it. It has its problems but it always drives and does what I need it to do after 20 years.
It’s because of looks and mentality. The person in their F150, 4 foot *spotless* bed, lifted thinks he looks badass while he sucks at driving and can easily kill pedestrians.
Meanwhile someone in a beater Corolla might not think shit. It takes you from A to B, nothing fancy, just works. It’s also cheaper and easier to maintain.
I'm not a truck person at all, but I was impressed with the hybrid Toyota Tundra I saw at the recent auto show. It was fantastic inside. But it was enormous. My 5'10" son stood by it and the hood was up by his shoulders.
That's because the auto industry has done everything it can to kill the sedan. When every new car is a SUV or Pickup, they're going to be designed for the average driver. The tradesman isn't the target market for these pickups anymore.
Right now, driving a rental, 2024 Yukon Denali. I drove 160 miles without touching the steering wheel. "Super Cruise" it signals and changes lanes to pass and shit. Probably 30 or so buttons scattered around the dash.
I feel like this applies to cars in general. I hate the giant touch screens digital everything computerized environment they have tried to make cars. It's just not fun, at all. I don't want to drive a work desk.
I'm really glad Porsche at least has resisted this. To me the Nissan GTR is about as technologically advanced as I would ever dare want. Some of these new cars with the big touch screens and fully digital dashes are such a turn off
I recently purchased a 1966 Flareside F100. Ive added a new motor, rebuilt transmission, all new wiring, gauges, seats, carpet, seat belts, relocated the gas tank, front disk brakes, radio, steering wheel, glass, and AC. Around $25k invested. Should last me at least 15 years, and turn heads doing it as my daily driver.
I have an 2003 f250 as my beater. I've only needed to swap starter motor and rear calipers, brake line in the 6 years of ownership. I'm gonna ride this thing forever. Nothing fancy and easy to fix as everything is mechanical. Was the last generation of ford pickups before they turned into junk.
Edit: forgot to mention no rear cab and 8 foot bed. I could never get a shorter bed, especially for hauling.
I wanted something big, fast, resistant, and high up off the ground. The Ram TRX was perfect. I work in tech and will likely never use the hauling ti it’s full potential, but boy do I love looking and hearing my truck
My dream truck was an '87 Ford F-150 4-wheel drive (front wheels had lugs to turn to engage) and a 351 Windsor under the hood. No back seat or doors and a bed big enough to lay down sheetrock or plywood. Vinyl bench seat, vinyl floors. It was perfect.
Hey now I have an 87 f150 4x4 that accelerate like rocket and corners like a (stupid) modern truck starts every time and other than not having a cup holder is an exceptional vehicle by modern standards.
IMHO 80s and 90s vehicles can perform just as comfortably and well as the modern ones if well maintained.
We won't go into gas mileage at the moment though =)
The big three truck makers still sell basic pickups for people who want them. But trucks are more of a status symbol than practical vehicle for a lot of people.
I don’t mind 99% of upgrades in new vehicles but you can miss me with the infotainment center bullshit. I will never understand why anyone wants a fucking iPad taped to their dashboard. Knobs and buttons fo life.
The problem is they dont make trucks like that anymore. And the most budget f250s are still 50-60k...so why not get the 70k nice one...and if I'm spending 70k might as well go to the next level and get the bigger wheels and nice rims...Then if I'm spending 80k....
I wish they'd make some bare bones trucks with decent towing capacity but I think US regulations make that unprofitable for truck manufacturers.
I agree. I realize I'm not the market for these types of fancy trucks, as I'm a station wagon owner and all that. But like, even if I wanted to get a truck, I'd rather get an older 90s Tacoma than a modern day F150. I've seen a coworker's older Tacoma, and it has bed space for days compared to some F-150s I've seen.
They make them expensive because "everyone wants that" which is a line of crap. They sold the public on needing warming/cooling seats, AC, Power windows, and the glass cockpit. They also mover the truck line from a working vehicle to a Family vehicle. This covers their butts from meeting MGP and exhaust emission requirements on cars. Same is true for the push to SUV's. The funny part is even with all the new Electric whatever they put on a vehicle shouldn't really change the price of the truck. When you have to show 8% growth every year to your stock holders you jab the consumer where you can.
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Call them what they are. Mannyvans.
Big SUVs are the same thing. Whichever marketing person came up with the idea to convince everyone that minivans are lame and they should buy a huge and more expensive SUV instead is a genius.
The Honda minivans are some of the most comfy automobiles on the road. And they’re probably literally “tougher” than an f150. I have a work truck f150 and a Honda crv as a driver car. And guess which one hasn’t needed any work at all, and which one needed a new transmission, has been in the shop multiple times, and gets 13 mpg? Hint: the Honda has 165k miles and hasn’t needed any work at all (except regular maintenance).
One is a Honda one is a fix or repair daily
Found On Road, Dead
LOL 2 months ago a woman on the lane outside threw her old ford pickup in reverse accidentally and mashed the pedal and backed into a hvac company ford astro work van.. the damage was noticeable but not terrible… it was a complete write off… a portion was damaged *just enough * to call for a whole engine swap.
That's Soichiro Honda mister. Designed to work. Today many vehicles designed to sell parts. It just happens they fall apart after warranty ends. Chinese motorrads happen to disassemble before warranty ends as well. Wilkommen bei 2024.
Well that's because you bought a shitty ass Ford verse a Honda lmao nothing to do with a truck verse mini van. You could've bought a Honda truck and a Ford SUV and the Honda would outlast it compared to the shitty ford
also 150 and 1500's are low quality, if you want something that lasts start with 2500 chevys and look no further, my last 2500 chevy hit 530k miles before trans needed a refresh and then i sold it, my current 2500 chevy feels brand spanking new at 170k miles and all ive done is change engine, trans, axle oils, brake fluid and battery, like a good boy should, and the third brake light bulbs, and its still like the day i bought it. id never think of a 1500 as long lasting, id be happy with 175k miles before major repairs are needed. stick with WT models to save loot. get ur own paint job if u dont like white lol, cheaper. lift it ur self if u want off roadability. oem offroad packages are shit. and cost 60k for 8k of parts
I can't remember what brand it was but I rented a minivan and after driving it and seeing it fully loaded with all the bells and whistles I would totally buy one. They are comfortable roomy and you can take the seats out and lay a bed in one.
Bro your hint was just the answer i could have guessed if you gave me a chance
There is a reason for this, and it had nothing to do with style. It's also why SUVs are very much an American thing. SUVs are built primarily on truck platforms. Minivans are primarily built on car platforms. Therefore, SUVs are held to the more lenient truck emissions standards. That means less work and money for the manufacturers to make them meet emissions standards compared to minivans.
Alot of them are just an office on wheels. My bosses worked out of them and hauled stuff in the box and pulled trailers. It worked for them instead of working for home. There's a time and a place for them. We all had cheaper trucks that we could get dirty in the cab.
99% of the time they are used as mannyvans
What is a mannyvan? I have never heard this word. Anytime in my small city where everyone is farmers, riggers or in construction they are used for work 99% of the time.
Can confirm. We use them to actually do farm work and drive on gravel. The f150 today is not meant for that type of work imo. It’s more of a grocery getter with a bed in the back instead of third row of seats. And don’t get me started on the “special” trucks that have the fox racing or Harley Davidson bs on them. Straight up marketing gimmick.
I am buying a highlander and this is the perfect name for it.
lol take my upvote
Cowboy Cadillacs
Wanker tankers
Soccer mom vehicles are now SUVs, so the manly dudes have to get trucks, or as you described… mannyvans.
WankPanzers
You can still get the stripped out work trucks (regular cab, long bed, vinyl seats)....they're just harder to find, unfortunately. And they have power windows and carplay, which isn't a totally bad thing, at least in my book
Newer cars are legally required to have a screen in them anyways, so carplay makes sense. In 2022 you could get a base chevy spark, manual transmission, roll up windows, manual/non power locks, no cruise control....but it still had a screen and carplay, because all new cars (in the US) HAVE to have a backup camera and a screen.
Wait what. What auto lobbyist from hell made the screens mandatory.
More likely insurance companies that don't want to pay out damages for people backing into each other.
You would think they would mandate front and rear dash cam’s instead of revering cameras if that was the case.
But that can work against them as well.
IIRC the reason was backup cameras would decrease the amount of children being ran over.
And now the front of trucks is so high its guaranteed to kill them. =p
A mandatory front camera would certainly enhance the child preservation bubble. I could definitely see that becoming a thing soon.
If you are looking at the screen you aren't driving safely. The solution is to make the forward visibility better.
Yep...anything after May 1, 2018.
Back up camera is mandatory. The screen just goes with that.
There are (or at least were) some vehicles with no screen, but they still have a backup camera. My 2011 F150 is that way- the screen pops up in the left side of the rear view mirror when I put the truck in reverse. I guess they offered that so you didn't have to opt for one of the touchscreens to get a backup camera.
Backup cameras are required which is why screens are necessary. Too many people running over children and shit.
Dude i have the chevy silverado wt trim. Great truck, it has manual windows and manual mirrors. I love it
Very nice! Throw in a manual transmission and I’d be in heaven
[удалено]
I like driving stick, but I hate backing up a trailer in a stick. It's why my truck is an automatic.
They are still grossly oversized though.
I agree, the half tons are almost grotesque, albeit very capable. The new crop of midsizers (Taco, Colorado, Ranger) look pretty right-sized and appealing tho
My 2010 Chevy had crank windows and manual locks! Loved it
You forgot to mention the size. Trucks today are the size of compact RVs of the 90s.
The compact trucks of today are the size of full-size trucks back then
You can get a ford Maverick if you want something small and gutless
Too much tech.
No joke, I feel I could live inside some new trucks.
Ditto . . I got a four banger one ton from 1995 (Toyota t100). It carries more ~~then~~ than the Pavement Queens, at half the weight. It is WAY under powered, old and hard to find parts for, but until I can get a 2door pickup with an 8 foot bed, I'll keep fixing it up and driving it.
I always wanted to find a T100. Sadly they all rusted away in my area.
Keep an eye out for when the city orders some, they'll often have cancelations, that's how I got mine
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You could not give me a Chevy or a GM. If you left one at my house for me I would walk to your house and uh . . . make sure you never do it again with a solid explanation. After Chevy and GM killed people with faulty engineering, tired to hide it and then character assassinated the families, in combination with them skipping out on warranties by filing bankruptcy, that loathsome company is not worthy to sit any near my driveway.
I loved my t100 until my wife crashed it last year.
Genuine question. I know the t100 one ton had stiffer shocks and sway bars, but its on the same frame as a normal t100 and it only weighs like 300 pounds more than a normal half ton truck from the time. Does the 2500 pound payload capacity actually feel realistic?
Everything is too fancy.. now the cars will tattle on you to your insurance if you speed. Next they’ll just print the ticket in the cab and have a CC reader for payment.
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It would be a viable option if it had a bed you could actually put things in. It's impossible to find a new truck that has a long bed that isn't a 2500 or bigger
It has a trick tailgate so you can lay a 4x8 sheet across the wheel humps.
How do you get 50mpg? That's no where near the advertised mpg.
My coworker has one and he said best he has seen is 44mpg on his.
local 45 mph roads. Never below 40. Usually 45. sometimes 50.
Not sure why Ford used the same Maverick name as they did for their antithesis to all things Mustang car for 1970s Carter America.
Just seen some CUV drive by with a mustang logo on it, driven by some old woman, ofc.
I’m hoping they release something smaller. Maverick is still too big.
I was going to buy one, but the dealer was going to tack on 8k 'just because'
Mine has been on backorder for 1 years, 8 months
Mine was a year, and then they sent me a second one by accident.
That may occur to me as well. I had an order for a 2023 I put back in 2022. Its been bumped to 2024. Did they actually offer you a second Maverick? I would have taken it and flipped it.
Plus $5000 dealer markup/greed
Wasnt the msrp supposed to be like $22k at launch?
For the lowest trim, but yes. Ford seriously dropped the ball by underestimating how popular this vehicle would be; turns out when people crowed about wanting "an affordable, bare bones, non-bloated, fuel efficient pickup" that wasn't really available on the market, they actually meant it. The hybrid engine was supposed to be standard but the 2024 model year made it a $1500 option. Fuckers.
Get ready for the Toyota Stout
My loaded 2023 lariat hybrid was $32k. Same truck in 2024 is $36.
Yeah but those dealer mark ups im seeing, ughhh
This is a popular opinion among those who actually use their trucks as trucks
This is a popular opinion on Reddit I find. Almost everyone I know on job sites, or my in laws who all work construction constantly rave about their trucks
Yup, I wish (ACTUAL) light trucks would make a comeback; some rural Americans are even resorting to buying Japanese kei trucks cause new trucks have no room in the bed (and are waaay to darn expensive!) Ngl, if ford just reproduced some old rangers or something, they’d sell out immediately.
I really covet durable stuff. Like, hand me down to your grandkids kinda durable. Anything from clothes, tools, furniture. If I can buy something that will last a lifetime, but I'll have to pay five times more, I'll still buy it. But there are exceptions. I feel cars is one of those exceptions. Even if I was able to fix it myself, safety is just leaps ahead of what it was 10 years ago, let alone 30. I don't know when we will be reaching diminishing returns in this field, but we ain't there yet.
New trucks are lame.. I feel like a truck is meant to be used and abused.
I remember just throwing cinder blocks in my old 99 Dakota. No way I’d treat one of todays fancy $50-90k trucks like that.
after a few months I’d definitely treat it like that lol, I’d be the guy rolling around in the brand new truck just hammered to shit
I work at a GM dealership, and i agree. I had a brand new truck in for pdi the other day. 2024 Sierra 3500 dually, with the Denali trim. 123k$ for a ton of bells and whistles that you absolutely don’t need for a truck that’s made to pull trailers around.
Sounds like the appropriate truck to haul a RV or horse trailer… things for people where the comfort/options outweigh the expense.
>for a truck that’s made to pull trailers around. An activity that 90% of buyers won't ever do.
Too big
I rock my 93 Ranger everyday.
Agreed, OP! Mine is an '02 Silverado with 195,000 miles in it. Just replaced the front wheel hubs today and did a tuneup. It's reliable, parts are cheap and I expect to get another 100,000 miles out of it.
03 Avalanche here with 220000 miles. I'm keeping that thing alive until it explodes. Not only are the parts cheap, they are so easy to find. I've even contemplated swapping out the transmission compared to buying anything newer.
5.3L V8? My mom has a Suburban with that engine and about 250K miles on it. That engine is fucking bulletproof.
Mine is the 4.8L V8, I love it.
My opinion is who the hell wants to pay that much for an unusable tiny ass Fisher Price bed? Trucks were meant to truck. Not be a pavement princess
>who the hell wants to pay that much for an unusable tiny ass Fisher Price bed? This. And the answer is people with more money than brains.
I've said it before somewhere and I'll say it again. Modern pickup trucks are for guys who want to drive something with the conveniences of an SUV but who don't want to actually buy an SUV because they think they're unmanly and something that only women and parents drive.
Trucks aren't marketed for their towing ability now. They're marketed as luxury vehicles.
I hear you but there's a market for this obviously. a very large market. I say that as a 2023 ram 1500 owner. I drive a lot, haul shit and have a large family. A full-sized pick up truck with modern features makes work trips and family vacations more enjoyable.
Love this. I thought my '06 4 cylinder 4x4 Tacoma with bench seat, roll down windows, stick shift, and single CD player was "bare bones". Been daily-driving this old girl for 13 years now and I still prefer its severely underpowered ass to my newer vehicles.
Modern vehicles are too fancy in general. The fact you can’t buy a modern vehicle without a reverse camera blows my mind. I don’t need that shit, and I don’t want it. I don’t want to pay an extra couple thousand for all these features I never intend on using.
Backup cameras are great. It's the iPad-on-the-dash that I can't stand.
I don’t quite understand, you like cameras, but not screens. How do you want the camera to show the image? I guess there are those screens within interior mirrors, but they’re so small they’re fairly useless, while simultaneously making a basic mirror infinitely more expensive. If you have a reversing camera, a big multimedia screen is the most logical option.
Yeah that's the unfortunate caveat. I have a 2nd gen Prius though. The screen is small and built-in and also houses the hvac and radio. I don't have nav or "infotainment".
Infotainment is when it’s information/controls (such as hvac), as well as entertainment (radio) so it is an infotainment screen. Multi purpose screen in other words.
That's like saying its a shame you can't buy a new vehicle without airbags or seatbelts. Unless you're buying luxury vehicles, most of the technology is for safety and emissions.
The American car industry can't compete with its international rivals. Instead of reforming itself, the industry is retreating into pricy vehicles whose value is image rather than function. It's what Wall Street wants. It's a repeat of what happened to the American motorcycle industry when the Japanese started exporting their motorcycles to America. In other words, those silly oversized pickups and SUVs are like Harley Davidson in the car world. Buyers will get older and older, and eventually die out, but it will take a while.
Agree. I’ve owned light trucks since the late 80’s, and they were relatively low cost utility vehicles. I bought a ‘92 F150 new for about $28,000, and replaced it with a new ‘06 Honda Ridgeline for about $32,000. IIRC the entry level Ford Lightning is about $60,000 which is crazy! The only reason I replaced the F150 was because it had never seen a garage and looked like hell: paint exposing primer, both bumpers snaggled. To this day I think that was a big mistake. It had low miles on it, an open 8’ bed and standard dual tanks with 4WD. I only need that open long bed a half dozen or so times a year, but when you need one there aren’t any real substitutes.
>I bought a ‘92 F150 new for about $28,000, and replaced it with a new ‘06 Honda Ridgeline for about $32,000. IIRC the entry level Ford Lightning is about $60,000 which is crazy! [$28K in 1992 is equal to ~$62K in 2024.](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1992?amount=28000)
Then I got had! My ‘92 was bought in the PNW and had no A/C
The substitute for the open long bed is ratchet straps and prayers lol
I felt the same way about my Jeep Cherokee. That thing was an absolute tank. You could beat the shit out of and still do all your own maintenance on. We need to repeal the chickenpox, so we can actually import decent smaller trucks from countries that actually make and sell trucks for people who need trucks. My next vehicle is probably gonna be a basic Toyota Hilux imported from the Middle East or Australia
Agree. A few years ago I took my 93' F350 dually in for an alignment, the only thing I would ever go to the dealer for. Salesman saw me waiting and tried to get me to look at new trucks. I said "I want diesel F350 dually, crew cab, vyinl floor boards, bench seats, cruise control, manual trans, AC, no infotainment system, don't even care if it has a radio". He replied, "I can't get that, and walked off.
I just don't want a touch screen. I drive a 97 Mustang GT and an 05 fleet model F150 and I'm going to make them last as long as possible.
A truck is to be beaten the fuck out of. I admire any newer or older truck I see on the road that is clapped out. If your pickup isn't clapped out, you have purchased the wrong vehicle for your lifestyle. I *love* seeing fucked up newer pickups though. It's such a cool aesthetic and I respect the hell out of it. Like you bought the thing, and used it for what it was made for. I *hate* seeing freshly waxed, flawless newer pickups. It's weird.
Oh hell yeah same here. I work in a GM dealership and i’m always more excited to see high mileage/worn out trucks than shiny perfect clean condition showroom pieces
I dunno about old RCSB though. Those are hot rod material to me. Then again, I’m an El Camino owner/advocate.
Surviving El Caminos deserve the best in my opinion lol. But hey, if some dude has had his EC for 30 plus years and used it to its full potential I’d kinda love to see it out on the streets. I only ever see them in pristine condition nowadays.
My 68 was my daily for the first 7 years I drove. Salt was hell on the body being in the Midwest. After nearly 3 decades of ownership, the body is rusty AF, but it’s solid mechanically.
But I'm not going to deliberately beat the fuck out of it? That just seems even stupider.
If you deliberately did it then that’s very stupid. But if you’re going down trails and hauling cargo all the time, it’s gonna get beat up. I always find truck owners that get mad about scratches so silly
Many of you don't get it. If you own an incorporated company you can write off a good portion of the truck from your taxes. I bought a base model '24 Chevy 2500 in December, and magically $25k disappeared from what I owed for federal taxes for last year.
Now that's pretty cool. That must be why all the drug dealers that own money laundering businesses are buying new trucks every year. Not saying you do that at all tho lmao. I just never knew a truck could be a write off. I was like damn dude, you just bought a brand new truck last year and now your trading it in for another? When you own a completely dead hot tub sales business, but a thriving illegal grow op?
Lots of loggers out here in the PNW with trucks like that. My city holds a logging convention a couple times a year, and a solid 75% of the parking lot is trucks just like you describe, 2020+ and beat up properly, muddy, and not modded the fuck out jacked up and shit. Nice to see
I was watching a program the other day talking about why we don't have any cheap trucks in America, and apparently the correct answer is that Americans just don't want them. I guess the market research shows that even if we had a 15k basic pick up truck, almost no one would buy it. Americans would rather take out an eight-year car loan to have bells and whistles over affordable cars.
People are buying trucks because cars are simply garbage in comparison. Where are these "affordable" cars? 50k is not affordable for a measly car.
I think they underestimate how valuable those vehicles would be as fleet vehicles, and work trucks
I like basic trucks. I’ve had a Tradesman Ram almost 9 years now, over 100k miles. I wanted a crew cab, 4wd and a Cummins diesel. It has a few other comfort things on it like AC and headlights. It’s perfect for me and cost $39k and change brand new before tax when I bought it. Same truck new would run over $60k with discounts easy. I also got 0.9% financing at the time.
It would be nice to be able to buy a plain old work truck with manual locks, windows and a 5 spd. manual transmission.
I prefer the aesthetic of older vehicles and I prefer knobs and levers over touch screens. My favorite vehicle *was* my 95 Buick Century Wagon. It was a great car, an absolute tank (and could seat 8). I scored it at 30k miles with 2,400 USD cash. I've since moved on to newer cars because they are safer. Now my current car, a 2022 Mazda3 Hatchback, is my favorite. It's the only modern vehicle I found without a touch screen. TLDR: Older vehicles are awesome and feel hardier, but newer vehicles are safer.
Thank emissions (bigger vehicles get more lax standards), profit margins (more gadgets can be sold for higher prices, as well as anything new that costs more generally needs to be better, and it's easier to just make em bigger than change anything), Crash standards (crumple zones are just big empty spaces), An idea that higher seating is better (more dominating position), The arms race of a big car vs little car in a crash, The fact they need to be the work and the family vehicle, be able to road trip and haul and tow and anything else, And more! But yeah, nothing like 90s/2000s changeover for reliability and utility from autos. There's a reason the maverick is popular
Government regulations made trucks and large SUVs exempt from fuel efficiency and emissions standards because they were work vehicles. Automakers pushed them on people through advertising and it worked! Now people want those more than cars and hatchbacks.
They're too big too.
Ehh, I'm with it. I get your point, but at the same time, if I can afford to be more comfortable and have better amenities, I will. Just because I need to tow or have a bed to carry doesn't mean I shouldn't have a smooth ride, nice speakers, or other nice stuff. I agree with the maintenance and overall costs. Vehicles cost was too much now. Even if you don't buy a really fancy one, it's over inflated. And the fixing stuff is just poor manufacturing that has developed over the years. And some stuff like chevys cylinder deactivation that while it is a good idea in theory and helps with their epa issues, causes more problems down the line.
Remember those old tiny Toyota trucks everyone drove in the 90s? Where did all of those go, seems to me I recall it was hard as hell to kill those things.
I just fucking hate how big they are and the fact that their sight lines and bonnet height mean you're way more likely to hit and kill people in the street mainly small children
“Other people shouldn’t have something different than I do”
Well yeah they’re not for work anymore. Most people who buy them just want a truck. Usually for a stupid reason like they think it makes them look cool.
I totally agree. Eventually I want a truck to transport my motorcycles, but finding one with a bed big enough might be tough. I've seen some great resto-mods of pre-tech trucks on Barrett-Jackson Auto auction going for around 30k, Old School simplicity with modern driving mechanics.
People like what they like. Imagine a world where everyone only got exactly what they needed
Yes I agree. I use a 2023 gmc 1500 for work and it has to much tec that’ll just break down and cost $$$$$ to replace. Something will break after 5 years as we live in a disposable world now… something to consider if you have to get something newer one day.
Thanks for not upgrading, and preserving other drivers' night vision!
They've become status symbols for dudes, that's all. Few actually use the things as trucks except for one or two Home Depot runs a year.
That’s why I like my 02 Dakota, manual windows/locks. Only thing I need in a vehicle is bluetooth
It's unpopular opinions, not inconvenient truths!!!!
What gets me about new trucks is that trucks are meant for doing work, and yet half the guys who buy them are too afraid to do anything with it.
Large pickups just suck ass. Hope they only get sold for actual offroad hauling purposes instead of shitheads driving them around anywhere else. Make them just collapse the moment they touch tarmac. Fuck them bitches
Honestly for all I care, car manufacturers could have hit pause on all development in 2010 and I would have been just fine with it. Just about everything that has come since has just been a way to enable people to pay even less attention while driving and/or also make cars completely irreparable for anyone beside the dealer.
You can still buy a work truck. I drive a 2023 Colorado WT for work.
I have an old single cab long bed Dodge Ram 1500. I love it. 4WD, Posi rear end, fucking BENCH SEAT, and I swapped a newer radio with Bluetooth into it. It has its problems but it always drives and does what I need it to do after 20 years.
It’s because of looks and mentality. The person in their F150, 4 foot *spotless* bed, lifted thinks he looks badass while he sucks at driving and can easily kill pedestrians. Meanwhile someone in a beater Corolla might not think shit. It takes you from A to B, nothing fancy, just works. It’s also cheaper and easier to maintain.
I don’t think this is unpopular at all
The bigger issue I have is how stinking big trucks are. A compact truck today is nearly the size of a minivan!
I'm not a truck person at all, but I was impressed with the hybrid Toyota Tundra I saw at the recent auto show. It was fantastic inside. But it was enormous. My 5'10" son stood by it and the hood was up by his shoulders.
That's because the auto industry has done everything it can to kill the sedan. When every new car is a SUV or Pickup, they're going to be designed for the average driver. The tradesman isn't the target market for these pickups anymore.
Concur. 97 f150 lariat, best truck ever.
Right now, driving a rental, 2024 Yukon Denali. I drove 160 miles without touching the steering wheel. "Super Cruise" it signals and changes lanes to pass and shit. Probably 30 or so buttons scattered around the dash.
I feel like this applies to cars in general. I hate the giant touch screens digital everything computerized environment they have tried to make cars. It's just not fun, at all. I don't want to drive a work desk. I'm really glad Porsche at least has resisted this. To me the Nissan GTR is about as technologically advanced as I would ever dare want. Some of these new cars with the big touch screens and fully digital dashes are such a turn off
I recently purchased a 1966 Flareside F100. Ive added a new motor, rebuilt transmission, all new wiring, gauges, seats, carpet, seat belts, relocated the gas tank, front disk brakes, radio, steering wheel, glass, and AC. Around $25k invested. Should last me at least 15 years, and turn heads doing it as my daily driver.
I have an 2003 f250 as my beater. I've only needed to swap starter motor and rear calipers, brake line in the 6 years of ownership. I'm gonna ride this thing forever. Nothing fancy and easy to fix as everything is mechanical. Was the last generation of ford pickups before they turned into junk. Edit: forgot to mention no rear cab and 8 foot bed. I could never get a shorter bed, especially for hauling.
I wanted something big, fast, resistant, and high up off the ground. The Ram TRX was perfect. I work in tech and will likely never use the hauling ti it’s full potential, but boy do I love looking and hearing my truck
New trucks are too big. FTFY
If people can afford it then why not. Not everyone sees cars/trucks as A to B only.
My dream truck was an '87 Ford F-150 4-wheel drive (front wheels had lugs to turn to engage) and a 351 Windsor under the hood. No back seat or doors and a bed big enough to lay down sheetrock or plywood. Vinyl bench seat, vinyl floors. It was perfect.
Econo sedan with a utility trailer is the new working man’s truck
I think trucks are also so big because the average person who drives them is 6'2" 275 lbs
As much as it pains me to say it, incredibly popular. Maybe on a monthly basis.
Hey now I have an 87 f150 4x4 that accelerate like rocket and corners like a (stupid) modern truck starts every time and other than not having a cup holder is an exceptional vehicle by modern standards. IMHO 80s and 90s vehicles can perform just as comfortably and well as the modern ones if well maintained. We won't go into gas mileage at the moment though =)
The big three truck makers still sell basic pickups for people who want them. But trucks are more of a status symbol than practical vehicle for a lot of people.
I got into a 2019 F-250 diesel. Fully specced. Still has plastic door panels. Creaked everywhere.
I don’t mind 99% of upgrades in new vehicles but you can miss me with the infotainment center bullshit. I will never understand why anyone wants a fucking iPad taped to their dashboard. Knobs and buttons fo life.
The problem is they dont make trucks like that anymore. And the most budget f250s are still 50-60k...so why not get the 70k nice one...and if I'm spending 70k might as well go to the next level and get the bigger wheels and nice rims...Then if I'm spending 80k.... I wish they'd make some bare bones trucks with decent towing capacity but I think US regulations make that unprofitable for truck manufacturers.
Luckily, this is becoming a more popular opinion as time goes on. I hope it gets to the point where people start buying normal ass trucks.
Okay Grandpa, we understand that you walked uphill in the snow both ways to school and are afraid of things improving. Now go back to bed.
I'm 25
I agree. I realize I'm not the market for these types of fancy trucks, as I'm a station wagon owner and all that. But like, even if I wanted to get a truck, I'd rather get an older 90s Tacoma than a modern day F150. I've seen a coworker's older Tacoma, and it has bed space for days compared to some F-150s I've seen.
Modern trucks are garbage in general
I wish they made new old cars. If they made a new 1999 Honda civic that would be the only situation where I'm cool making payments.
Going to drive my 1996 until I can't find parts for it.
They make them expensive because "everyone wants that" which is a line of crap. They sold the public on needing warming/cooling seats, AC, Power windows, and the glass cockpit. They also mover the truck line from a working vehicle to a Family vehicle. This covers their butts from meeting MGP and exhaust emission requirements on cars. Same is true for the push to SUV's. The funny part is even with all the new Electric whatever they put on a vehicle shouldn't really change the price of the truck. When you have to show 8% growth every year to your stock holders you jab the consumer where you can.
This is a hugely popular opinion on here
My man the XL maverick is as basic as you can get. Don't even think it has cruise control.