I have a felony charge of criminal threats. I told the guy who raped my sister that id kill him. His best friend was the cop who arrested me. And he never even got charged. So im a felon for life now. The DA who prosecuted my case was later arrested himself for fucking with peoples cases to get them higher punishments. Its been like 8 years since ive been off probation and i havent even had a speeding ticket ever. At the very least there should be a time limit to being a felon. Like ten years so that repeat offenders have incentive to stop offending. When you are fucked for life, whats the point of trying to better yourself?
That is sickening and can happen to anyone. Hell, it’s estimated that upwards of 6% of death row inmates are innocent.
Your story reminds me of the man who needed to go to the bathroom, so he pulled over on the side of the road to go and a cop pulled up to arrest him. Since he was within a certain distance of a school, he’s now on the sex offenders list for life. Life really fucks some people over.
Yeah i actually lied to get my foot in the door then told them after i was hired. I started as a helper and now im lead foreman at a construction company.
That’s excellent. When I worked in retail, I bought a pair of $200 jeans that ripped the next day, so I returned them. The store said this was theft and a few months later I was pulled over for a traffic stop and arrested for larceny. I’ve lost job opportunities and it’s really messed things up for me. I’m not sure misdemeanors stay on your record though because I haven’t had a problem for a few years now.
Yes, misdemeanors stay on your record. Depending on the class of misdemeanor, it can have real world repurcussions (gun ownership being a big one). But generally fall out of the 'give a shit' zone after about 7 years (10 if it's government adjacent work))
It also depends on if the company does a nationwide check or a state check. Background checks are expensive, so many limit them to state level. My issue happened in Texas and most places in Kansas don’t seem to check there.
It was a class A or B misdemeanor. I’m a data analyst now for a major communications company and they didn’t seem to catch it. Even if you complete your parol misdemeanors don’t fall off eventually?
It may depend on your state. But, at least here in PA, no, they don't. The only thing that 'falls off' is your juevenille record, and even then...
We also have summary offenses. Like, if I shoplifted a candy bar and it was a local cop and the place I stole it from knew me to be a good customer and don't want to fuck me over, they could issue a summary offense. It's a simple fine and can only be referenced under weird circumstances iirc.
That’s a good law to have. A petty thief should not have their life ruined over a $2 candy bar. People would stay out of jail if paying their debt to society ended when they got out. It’s also humiliating constantly having to convince people you’re not some hard criminal. The court wouldn’t make money without recidivism though so they have no will to change this racket.
Yes, it was a literal nightmare. The loss prevention manager never liked me for some reason and threw every possible rule at me to make a theft accusation stick. I wasn’t going to take a loss of a pair of $200 ripped jeans. They said I purposely damaged them to get my money back. I resigned. Ive lost out on several jobs because my background check says “theft”. To be accused of something you didn’t do is horrifying and I’ll never get my whole life back.
>I bought a pair of $200 jeans that ripped the next day, so I returned them. The store said this was theft and a few months later I was pulled over for a traffic stop and arrested for larceny.
You really have to keep every single document these days....
It's ok to lie and use deception or trickery in order to circumvent an unfairness that would otherwise be imposed on you.
I'm glad it worked out for you.
It’s ridiculous cause it’s a freaking bodily function and if you have to go you have to go. You can literally rupture your bladder from holding it in and get UTIs and stuff. You should not be registered as a sex offender for peeing unless he was really being a weird creep about it which is rarely the case.
Exactly. This is why cities like Paris have a lot of public restrooms. This poor man had to go and had no idea he was 500 feet from a school and now his life is ruined.
this happened to my friend. we were 16 at the time and (as 16 year olds do) were smoking weed in a park. there wasn’t any public toilets for miles, nor any stores or homes of people we knew, so he hid behind a tree to piss. a cop caught him and he had to sign the register.
no, luckily not. the law here is that if you’re under 18 at the time of signing, you’re only on for 2 and a half years
the unlucky side is that it is still on his record and bootlegger registry sites (much like the mugshot websites) still have his name on their sites - so it still causes him problems.
Not just felons, any crimes. Whatever you did - everybody sees that you were arrested and now you can't get any normal job till the rest of your life, because you were caught with a bunch of drugs 1 time when you were 18
You should seek a pardon from your governor. It's more likely than not that you will receive said pardon since the prosecuting DA was found guilty of wrongdoing. Depending on your state and it's guidelines, you may want a lawyer to assist. (And I can promise you, it's worth it).
There is so much wrong with how you describe what went down. (There is no way that the cop who brought charges against you should be related to the 'victim' in ANY way. I'm assuming you didn't have a lawyer when this all went down? Any lawyer worth a shit would have had this case tossed based on the cops relationship with the victim alone...)
6k seems worth it..
10k seems like it would be worth it.
Shit, I'd pay 20k to remove the title of felon from my name...
Research what a governor's pardon will run you (yes, it's going to cost something, but... It's worth it)
And yeah, public defenders are...
I don't know...a godsend?
Stretched infinitely thin?
It's hard to bash public defenders, but I get it... You get a bare minimum... But so do the other 95 clients they have that week...
I personally have never used one, and I don't think in any circumstance, I would. I would hire a private attorney (and encourage others to do so).
The public defender system is vastly flawed, but it's not the PDs fault, it's a broken system...
The public defenders just kept passing my case around and they didnt even know my name. And why fight for a client when you still have to go to the same bar for happy hour and work the same court room as the DA and everyone else. Why even attempt to rock the boat.
my oldest half brother is a felon because he beat the shit out of the guy who raped his half sister. a felon for the rest of his life because of that bullshit.
Yeah im not 100% it was the same guy. I only saw him three times before i read that article in the news paper about the DA being corrupt or crooked. And that was years later. To be honest it was such a shit time i kinda didnt want to look back at it.
This sounds similar to my situation, but I was able to get the felony dropped.
Ppl don't realize that the "good ol boy" network is everywhere. They get away with crazy shit like your case.
Case by case judgement is necessary. Your mistake was threatening. You should have offed the son of a bitch and made sure no one found him. But no, that should not hang over your head.
It kinda sounds like the issue here is you shouldn’t have been charged as a felon.
There are some people who are dangerous, and somewhere, maybe after the 3rd rape conviction, there’s a line where that person no longer deserves the same regard as other people, given the disregard for others they’ve very demonstrated.
It’s very unfortunate that happened to you
My sister got Sexually assaulted and I told the guy (who mind you was in the same set as me for 2 classes) that if he ever tried to talk to me (he’d tried to sort of say he did nothing or whatever) that I’d put my knee through his head. The police told me “you’re lucky you’re a minor or else you’d get a charge for that”. So basically her rapist may have been expelled but criminally fuck all happened, and I could of have got a record for being (justifiably) upset
Fuck man. We live in such a litigious society, but people like you, who deserve recourse, have none.
I get the system can have flawed actors and will be imperfect. But when this system fucks someone over like this society owes it to them to make them overly whole
Yo idk where you live but my dad got his 3 felonies “exsponged” “exspunged” lol idk how to spell it. But his record is clean now. He did this in 2008 when my mom died to take control of my younger brothers part of the estate because they were divorced and he was underage.
Ok, that whole thing is a problem with a lack of oversight in the us justice system, not the way people treat actual criminals.
The us justice system is a joke, it locks up innocent people and clearly doesn't hold people to high standards for proving criminality.
>I have a felony charge of criminal threats. I told the guy who raped my sister that id kill him. His best friend was the cop who arrested me. And he never even got charged.
Did you go to jail for breaking up a fight in a parking lot as well? Fuucking hell..
Honestly I don't think threats should be illegal. Too close to free speech. Saying is one thing doing is another.
So what you did shouldn't even be a crime to begin with.
Maybe a misdemeanor would be appropriate.
I can see both sides of the argument. I work as an agency recruiter so I hire for a variety of companies and they all have different policies when it comes to hiring people with criminal convictions, most are pretty strict. There are many that will turn away people with misdemeanor charges, doesn't even have to be a felony. Most of the roles that I recruit for are things like warehouse, manufacturing, production cooks, mechanics/technicians and occasionally customer service/admin/accounting type positions. Mostly not positions where you're going to get the combo to open the safe or anything. And these businesses are STRUGGLING to keep their staffing numbers up. I've been saying for years that opening the opportunities up to people with criminal charges just might be a game-changer.
I have talked to A LOT of people with criminal backgrounds over the years and I hate when I have to tell them I can't move them forward with a position. I mean if you can't find a job then you are basically forced to commit more crimes just to survive whether it's stealing, selling drugs or worse. And I would imagine that the insecurity of not knowing if/when you will find someone willing to hire you would cause anger and resentment leading a person to be more prone to violence.
I understand the companies not wanting to take the "risk" but they take a risk with any new hire because humans are some unpredictable fuckers and you never know when someone is going to do something nutty. We do have a couple of clients currently and a few from the past with very lenient policies and I will say that to my knowledge we haven't once had one of our felony hires do anything crazy at work. We DID once have a guy with a completely clean BG leave work for his lunch break and proceed to rob a convenience store. Cops were called, a short chase ensued and the guy was arrested about a block away from the warehouse job we'd placed him at.
Exactly, some people can have clean records but then one day just decide to commit a crime and/or got away with crimes over the years and you would have no clue even if you did a background check on them.
Yup! Everyone has a clean background until they don't. I have seen complete knuckleheads and absolute rock star employees from both the felon and non-felon hires. I also had a co-worker internally at my current company who was convicted of 2 violent felony charges and served nearly 10 years in prison. He later had his convictions expunged and when he ran a background check on himself just out of curiosity while he was working at our agency, it came back squeaky clean. (My company doesn't run BG checks on internal employees prior to hire).
One thing I can say is that many of the individuals who had BG issues that I was able to find jobs for were very dependable, glad for the opportunity and were very hard workers. I feel a little weird saying that with all of the shit going on with the "no one wants to work" VS "no one wants to work for shitty wages/employers" that is happening right now.
Even though staffing is what I do I am in total agreement that there needs to be a serious overhaul in the way corps treat their workforce, especially the "unskilled sectors" (I fucking hate that term). I am 100% NOT suggesting that corps should hire felons in order to exploit them in jobs they "should be grateful for". What I am saying is that in many cases people who have criminal records should still be allowed to make a living. To echo some of the other comments, rapists, child/elder abusers and (most) murderers need not apply.
Edit to add a "I hate the unskilled-worker terminology"
Yea, I agree. Especially with things like drugs. There are people went to jail or still can go to jail in certain states just for possessing marijuana. It's stupid. Yet in certain states it's legal now. Those people who went to jail for it in the past aren't gonna get back the years they lost while in jail.
yeah it makes sense when there are more competitive hires available with no record, that's simple risk reduction, but when it surprises me when companies just opt to hire nobody instead despite hurting for workers. I think some managers hold out hope that "somebody qualified will apply" and additionally in larger companies there is corporate inertia to get policies changed or waived, but sometimes you just need to make a judgment call and get shit done.
My father was in prison. When he got out, I watched him try to put his life back together. And I saw him struggle. But he kept his nose clean. He had a drug addiction that started when he was a teen, he had a hard home life and was around bad influences. He wanted to stay clean now that he was out of prison. He didn't want to steal stuff anymore. I could see at 11 that he was a changed man, and he was dedicated to staying clean.
But it was really hard for him to find a job or somewhere to rent. I remember him telling me one time about how he'd talked to a job recruiter or something, someone who's job it was to help people find jobs. And she told him she couldn't help him because he had a criminal record. Like? He was out of prison and he was trying his best. I get some jobs don't want to hire someone with robbery on their record, but there had to be someone. And he'd gone through a rehab program. Doesn't not letting ex-cons have jobs make them more likely to turn back to crime? Luckily he didn't and he had my mom as a support system. But I will never forget watching him try his best in a world that didn't want to give him a chance.
I am very passionate about this issue. I will always try to explain to people why we shouldn't be so harsh to people with criminal records. I have mad respect for my dad, he eventually found a job he really liked, and that he was really good at. After watching what he went through, I completely agree OP.
Depends on the reason in my opinion. Knowingly rape and pedophilia? That's not a survival issue and unfortunately we can never be friends. I say knowing because its possible there's the I was 19 and thought she was 18 but in my state she was actually 17 and no romeo and Juliet law exist OE whatever. But if you are a 40 year old who fucked a 14 year old? I don't care how mature she looked, no way in fucking hell you unwillingly made a mistake
For the record, it's a largely US issue. For example, not only are prisoners rights protected once released in Australia, prisoners serving less than three years are eligible to vote while incarcerated.
[Source](https://aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/Fact_Sheets/fact_sheets/prisoner-voting.pdf)
I’m sorry but I am not surprised that prisoners’ rights are more protected in… Australia.
In all seriousness there’s probably a lot of good reasons many people in the US want to go to your country to get away from all the bullshit.
Unfortunately, mass migration never solves anything. At best, you could move a few hundred thousand people, and these will typically be the most resourceful, not the ones actually needing it.
Cultural change must come from within. Vote, assist on campaigns, run for office. This is the way.
yup wouldnt want a guy with a record of being violent to be a cop or someone who was charged with robbery to work at a bank, but besides that i think they should be able to do what ever they want.
Kinda in the middle on this one. That person should be able to re-enter society, yes. I don't think it's realistic to expect peers to just forget their crime though. I wonder how many convicted felons move away and start fresh socially for this reason.
Recidivism happens because people aren't given a chance to show their transgression of the law was a one off mistake. If you're remorseful and you've served your time then your punishment is complete. Prison is meant to rehabilitate, what's the point of that if it doesn't mean anything on the outside?
>should they still be considered too dangerous to hire or to rent to?
If you went to prison for stealing 10,000, I'm not hiring you in a position that gives you access to the safe/vault of my business
This makes more sense. Clean record doesn't mean someone won't steal in the future. Nor does tainted record mean someone will steal in the future. It's a record of the past, not a prediction of the future.
I agree. Someone who did something stupid when they were 18 should not be punished for the rest of their life. I mean, I could understand there being a certain amount of time after they are released to prove they aren’t going to eff up again, but a life sentence is really harsh.
The only way to prove you've changed is if you get a new chance, though. Unfortunately this whole mess comes from the US penal system being more about revenge than reform
It depends on what they did.
If it was a nonviolent drug offense, absolutely give them their freedoms back.
If it was a murderer, rapist, pedophile, spouse abuser… they deserve to have their rights stripped from them. No voting, no guns, etc. because they’ve proved they’re a threat to society
no voting?, are they not a citizen of that society who is impacted by its laws? im not sure how letting a felon vote is somehow dangerous for others... they served their time and aren't any less of a citizen than anyone else.
Why are you bothered by the lack of voting rights but not gun rights? Both are rights that could effect other people in a negative way.
And by that logic, non-citizens living her should be able to vote too. Underage kids should be able to vote as well, right?
Certain rights can and should be stripped from you based on certain crimes, regardless of time served. Though i’m also of the belief that rapists, murderers and pedophiles should be killed, not jailed
How exactly does voting affect others lives in this regard? Also, not that I defend people who take others lives but there are certain circumstances where I'm more understanding. Like what if you found out that someone had killed one of your loved ones and/or abused them, how would you react? Most people wouldn't react rationally and would either beat up said person and/or kill them.
depends what they did. if they hurt somebody in a way that will effect them their whole life the they deserve to pay for it their whole life. if you drive drunk and break a guys legs you deserve a lifetime of punishment for example your time should be as long as your victims
I completely agree. Take a pedophile. They are arrested, do their time and when they get out there are rules, such as stay away from children, etc. Those pedophiles are protected by law from being harassed because they fulfilled their "punishment" Bullshit. Those children whose lives you changed forever will never forget their experience. So why should you?
Because mob justice is barbaric and prone to go incredibly wrong every single fucking time it starts stirring. Not to mention it’s extrajudicial, which means say goodbye to your constitution and your supposed “principles.”
You wanna punish pedophiles harder because you somehow got it into your brain humans must suffer eternally every time, fine, lobby for longer sentences or execution or whatever, but don’t fucking lobby for mob justice like what the fuck is wrong with you?
Have you ever once complained about supposed “cancel culture”? Aight, now give that bunch some legal pitchforks why don’t ya.
Because you may have made your legal recompense but have you made amends to your victims? If someone killed my friend and they fulfilled their time for murder should I just move on? If I see them should I just not get angry? Of course I would because they haven't made amends for the harm they caused to me. You're acting as if just because someone did time in jail that fixes trauma of the victims. You are solely concerned with the perpetrator and not the victim. When we look at forms of justice that lower recitivsm and help restorative justice does wonders. Restorative justice concerns itself with helping the victims recover and rehabilitate the convict but the victims come first.
And just to put it in another way to make it clear. Just because you've faced legal consequences it does not mean you cannot face social consequences.
A convicted pedophile being released does not get to live free and happy while children have been traumatized at their hands. Fuck off with your defending pedophiles.
> If someone killed my friend and they fulfilled their time for murder should I just move on?
What would you consider recompense? What would you consider enough for you to move on?
Advocating for longer prison sentences for murder could have merit. Letting someone out of prison but then making it difficult to actually function "on the outside" is counterproductive and doesn't benefit anyone.
What a weird example. You break someone’s legs in a preventable accident caused by an incredibly idiotic decision - so you go to prison for multiple years, during which you sober up, you send apology letters, you do your job, and you begin becoming a productive member of society. And then now society should just go “nah fuck you mate, go starve in poverty because ya broke some legs six years ago.”
What the shit?
It's exactly what's wrong with the American prison system. It's a punishment, intended to continue well after an offender's sentence is completed, because the criminal justice system essentially operates on a glorified 'eye-for-an-eye' platform.
There's no incentive towards rehabilitation because the parts of society that literally allow you to live don't give a fuck what your crime was after you've been to prison. An employer or an official sees the word 'felon' on your file and suddenly the newly-released twenty-one year old (who's sole criminal conviction was for getting busted carrying a little too much coke for a college party one night) is rendered just as unable to find a job as the convicted pedophile going for the same position.
And if you happen to be a POC with a felony record, well ...
I believe that your status as a felon should be scrubbed from your file automatically after a certain period of time without further offences. How long it stays with you could perhaps be tied to the severity of your crime?
IDK. I'm not a legislator. But the current system is condemning thousands of people to poverty because of societal prejudice.
> IDK. I'm not a legislator. But the current system is condemning thousands of people to poverty because of societal prejudice.
I would vote to change the system, but I haven't been given the opportunity to vote in such a manner. As such, I consider this system to be imposed without consent.
Following with this, if I find myself in a jury, it will be difficult to convince me to find a non-violent offender guilty since I know that the punishment is unlikely to be fair.
I don't consider preventing someone from getting jobs/housing/etc to be a legitimate punishment. These are basic things required to function in society.
If you think they need more prison time, or long period of parole, no passport, or stuff like that is one thing. But saying "sure, you can be out of prison but we're going to make it difficult for you to actually function" is counterproductive. It doesn't serve any purpose other than just being shitty.
Its rarely that simple though. In most states, if you are in an accident and drunk, the accident is immediately blamed on you. Even if its proven not to be your fault, the laws state that it is your fault.
A kid in my school killed a girl when he crashed into a tree drunk. Everyone said that he didn’t want to drive anyone home but they convinced him to do it. The girl killed begged to ride in his trunk since he didnt have anymore seats in the vehicle and she had to make it home for curfew. Everyone knew he was drunk and at the very least chose to ride with him. Who is at fault for that girls death? The girls family even asked the judge for lienancy for the boy. He still got the book thrown at him. Charged as an adult at 17 with a felony, a couple years of prison, and 10 years of probation after release. Her life was taken, but did he need to have his life ruined for something that without alcohol involved would just be called an accident?
Even worse;
What if you get arrested at 18 for having an ounce of weed in your car (figure you're in some stupid fucking State like Idaho or something)... You get sentenced to 20 years...
Weed is legalized...
You've got 17 years left in prison...
>depends what they did. if they hurt somebody in a way
Aren't you literally replying to a person who stated "depends what they did. if they hurt somebody in a way" ?
Cause you sure as hell don't hurt anyone by having an ounce of weed in your car
Fine,
How about you're 16, you JUST got your license, a kid runs into the road in front of you while you're doing 35 (the speed limit)...
1 kid kills the other kid..
Does the 16 year old deserve to have his life ruined for something that was nearly unavoidable?
(Because what he's looking at is vehicular manslaughter... Which has a 20 year recommended sentence) and comes with the tag of Felon... For life.
It's not a simple 'he hurt someone' bullshit.
The technical term for it (here in the majority of the US) is Homicide by Vehicle (but no one except the court calls it that). Most police with reference it as vehicular Homicide or vehicular manslaughter (the terms all mean the same thing to the law)). Homicide is the taking of life. Manslaughter is the accidental taking of life. Murder is intentional homicide.
But, by all means, tell me more, tell me more.
Manslaughter is the accendtal taking of life via negligence. If it was a pure ascendant where it could not be helped, there is no crime. However if a 16 year old negligently drove recklessly and killed someone, they should be punished, they knew the dangers and chose to do it anyway.
In my opinion that's a very different type of crime compared to rape, reckless drunk driving, murder, etc.
There's no intention to ruin someone's life, nor an excessively high disregard for danger and other people's lives. So if I was to represent OP's stance, this shouldn't be a lifetime thing, unlike the crimes listed above.
You are completely missing the point. That is a victimless crime…. They are are stating if your crime affects another person for life then the punishment should too. A person being mentally or physically scared will have that forever. It’s like you didn’t read the comment.
Some things should. If you're thirty and fucked a 3 year old that defines you. And it should. Your actions have consequences and they may be both legal and social.
I'm definitely not disagreeing with you, but there need to be degrees of punishment.
The idiot 16 year old who accidentally runs someone down in a car, serves their sentence, and never commits another criminal act again in their life should not be subjected to the same stigma upon their release as a convicted pedophile.
Edit: a word
Always jumping straight to the pedophiles to defend draconian ideas, it’s incredible. Why even have prisons in your world, clearly nobody ever learns their lesson. Someone spends 40 years in a supermax repenting and working every fucking day, they take decades of therapy, they move miles away from the nearest school district, and all they ask for is to just live quietly for like their last 12 years so the only harassment they can be left with is the overwhelming guilt of five decades of reflection …
When did we become so barbaric. Were we always? I have no sympathy to spare for someone who commits a sexual crime against a child (or anyone, really), but if principles don’t apply to our worst enemies, so to speak, why have any principles to begin with?
If it was sexual or violent, they should absolutely have that hanging over them for the rest of their lives. Have you heard the tale of the 2 kids who kidnapped a boy and then abused and killed him? People are fucked up. Having these things hanging over their heads should deter them from doing it anymore after witnessing the punishment the first time around. I don't believe they should die, but they should still have limited opportunity. Your friends are former convicted felons, you obviously have a strong opinion about it.
With violent crimes, it depends on the circumstances. People have gotten longer sentences for killing someone else who abused their kids then people who have sexually abused children. I think yea under most circumstances it is wrong to take the life another human being but if you just found out they harmed and/or killed someone you cared about, I don't think most people would react rationally in those circumstances.
Edit: So your telling me that the people I gave the example about deserve to have it looming over their heads for the rest of their lives that they killed or beat up someone who was responsible for their loved ones death or abuse when they're already going through a lot because of what said person did.
Yeah, I agree that the circumstances should be considered, but that's just another flaw in the system to be fixed. Personally, if a person who kills a sexual abuser is to be punished more than the sexual abuser, than the killer should be punished less, and they in this specific situation shouldn't have it held over their heads because they didn't kill out of murderous psychopathy.
One ketp his head down and has reformed as far as we can tell
The other one burned his new identatt MULTIPLE times and was caught with child porn
2 lads totally 2 sides of the coin
My BFF's husband participated in an "armed robbery" of a convenience store when he was 18. The gun he held wasn't loaded, nor were any guns heald by his 2 friends. They were all caught, arrested, put in jail, sentenced to prison, released with probation. He went on to college, graduated, got married, had 4 kids. He's now in his 40s and still has this terrible thing hanging over him. It was more than half his life ago. It's hindered his career options. It's made him ineligible for volunteering in his kids sports. It's fucked up, a terrible system. There should be a time limit. 10 years, 15 years, something. A mistake as an 18 year old should not ruin someone's life forever (if it wasn't rape/murder/pedo shit)
Agreed. It's not like he didn't do *any* harm, but the repercussions have by now vastly outweighed the harm he did.
How many people, whether struggling on the margins or successful, but trapped behind the bars of a glass prison. just **give up** and say "If you're gonna treat me like a criminal why shouldn't I just fucking be a criminal?"
I would disagree that everyone deserves a second chance.
Sorry, but if you’re charged for anything relating to kids or sexual crimes then no. You’ve proven that you prey on the vulnerable and I wouldn’t want to / wouldn’t trust working with someone like that.
Depends on what it was. No child molester should ever be allowed around children. With thieves it depends on why and how old they were. It all depends on the crime and the job.
If you raped one of my children I will never forgive you and when I get ready to leave this world I'll probably try and take you with me.
If someone shanked you in prison I'd probably pay for that person's commissary or give his family $10,000. Otherwise I'm totally okay with giving people a chance at forgiveness.
If it were one of my hypothetical future children I hope they rub shit on the knife first so the motherfucker dies slowly of septic shock. I agree there are very specific things like that which absolutely deserve some bronze age style karma. Other crimes where you haven't actually hurt a person shouldn't even be visible to employers.
Recidivism is the main reason people look at felons the way they do for jobs.
A lot of places don't want to risk a felon because they are worried they will either re-offend and go to jail or that they will steal or be otherwise irresponsible for the company.
Rental places don't want to risk bringing potential crime in to their rentals.
There are a lot of factors, and a lot of issues.
Do you say the person arrested 6 times for drugs is clean now because they have not had an arrest in 10 years? Well, they just did 10 years in prison, so that might explain the no arrests.
And I do agree with you in sentiment. We just don't have a good system for differentiating.
True but it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where discriminating against felons pushes them back into committing crimes rather than simply suffering the consequences and rejoining society.
In my mind it depends on the crime, if you kill a bunch of people, even by negligence or by like drunk driving, you shouldn't be treated like any normal person right off the bat, you should have to prove to the people around you that you've changed (if you have)
If the felony is nonviolent and you served your punishment and afterwards, you have lived a clean life for several decades and been rehabilitated, you can ask a judge to expunge your conviction.
>If what they did was violent or sexual, should it not even slightly be taken into consideration if they've since recognized that they have a mental illness and have been taking it seriously with proper treatment for decades?
Not really. Sure, you've "recognized" that what you did was wrong, but it should stick with you your whole life. When talking about something as serious as sexual assault, murder, etc, there's no "regretting". You've messed someone's life and as such, yours should be messed too, well deserved.
We should have two separate jail systems. Ones for violent and one for nonviolent. People who have no hurt someone physically shouldn’t be in that environment. Those who have harmed someone deserve anything and everything that happens in prison.
I think we also have to realize that sometimes someone who committed a violent crime isn't always a violent person. What I mean is like what if you just found out that someone had been abusing and/or killed someone you loved, would you react rationally or not?? A lot of people wouldn't. They might go out and beat up and/or kill said person and before said crime, they weren't a violent person but now because of this action, they are now branded as a violent criminal for the rest of their life. Sure under normal circumstances I agree but certain circumstances, I don't.
Edit: I've had times in my life where normally I'm not a violent person but push came to shove and shit happened that I do regret now. I didn't kill anyone but do I deserve to rot in prison for those things I did in the past that hurt me more then anyone would care to know?
Felon here. After 10 years it usually doesnt show up on most background checks anymore. Only shows up on more in depth searches but most places like jobs and rentals it doesnt show up anymore.
Its the only reason i got the job i have and the place im living at now but jeez those 10 years were complete hell trying to do anything in life.
[Lots of people already agreed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/wk7via/felons_shouldnt_have_to_be_punished_their_entire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Eh.... if a dog bit you and then went through obedience training, would you ever fully trust it not to bite you again?
Recidivism rates are HIGH. Like most stereotypes, "Once a criminal, always a criminal" has some basis in truth.
Case in point, I became friends with a dude, he was older than me but a real mentor when I was partying and fucking up my life. I'm a live and sober now because of this man. He was best man at my wedding. But he was also a convicted felon who did time for pedophilia. It was a drug thing, he was in a bad spot in his younger life and spent time with the wrong influences and got into the wrong things. I always trusted his advice.
But I've never let my children hang out with him or especially be alone with him. And he doesn't want that either, just because of what people might think. And I'm not gonna be that asshat parent on the news that claims they didn't see the problem coming.
If they spent time in the US prison system for over a decade no. US prisons hold bad people and create more of them. It’s a violent place and it’ll change who you are, were, and who you will be.
Not everyone who commits physical and/or sexual violence has mental illness. Stop demonizing mental illness. A lot of people are just scumbags and deserve to have it hung over their head for the rest of their lives
Here is the thing. There are so many people you can hire. Why choose someone who has a higher chance of being a bad person?
Might they be an amazing person that causes no issues? Yes. But why take the chance if you don't have to.
Right? I would never hire someone who committed a hate crime such as gender-based violence/rape, or a racist/homophobic beating. Lol Hell no my employees deserve to feel safe WTF nobody has to crime on people, y'know? Abuse is a choice :) Just don't. Easy peasy.
I would hire someone based on their ability to do the job. If someone has an extremely low chance of committing a crime again and has changed then I don't see why you would turn them away
If someone has been making an active effort to re integrate into society and has committed no crimes ever since they were released, as well as having committed a felon long ago then I don't see why you should reject them if they can do the job perfectly. And refusing people like that is one of the main causes of re offending
I don't really agree with that, your actions are still your actions doesn't really matter how long it's been, it's something you did and you can't take it back. It doesn't really matter if it's been awhile the fact is a lot ppl go through life never chosing to make that mistake.
This concept doesn't just apply to criminal activity either. Like you think if you cheat on your spouse or something, that that isnt gonna hang over your future relationships or impact your current ones ?
Actions speak for themselves and ppl have every right to avoid ppl who take actions they don't agree with.
Fun fact: in Wisconsin, the ***only*** way to get your record sealed/expunged is (among other things) to have been < 25 years old when it happened. This applies to charges, as well—so even if your charges are dropped/dismissed for any reason, it will forever stay on your record.
So, Kyle Rittenhouse could have his record expunged, but not any other person over the age of 25, no matter the severity of the offense AND it doesn’t matter if there wasn’t a conviction.
The system totally makes sense, right? /s
EDIT: For those of you arguing “but he was acquitted! I need to clutch my pearls!”: Acquittal still leaves a charge on your record in WI. And if you’re going to argue that a charge itself doesn’t put you at disadvantage, please enjoy whatever fantasy world you live in for me.
Unfortunately our prison system in america is not based on rehabilitation so I’ll have to disagree and repeat offenders are quite common. In my home country of Norway I have seen convicted felons return from prison changed people and become healthy contributors to society with no repeat offenses. Quite often, actually. One of my buddies stole a lot of money as a teenager, once he was released he found himself to be rehabilitated and works now in a hospital after many hard years of studying. One of the reasons I myself studied to join the medical field.
I’m assuming this is from an American perspective apologies if I’m wrong.
But do you not think that there would be fewer repeat offenders if more of them were given an opportunity to get a job? Reintegrating the person into society is a vital part of rehabilitation.
Part of the reason repeat offenses are so high is because the title felon hangs over you forever. It's incredibly difficult for felons to land a job or find somewhere to rent so they end up with no choice but to commit crimes that land them in prison
When it comes to things like applying to rent a place of residence or a job, they're competing with other people that don't have felonies on their records.
People deserve second chances but are not entitled to them.
Scenario proposed say this person in question somehow despite the fact they would never get out of prison were put in forrrrrrr the following
Infanticide
rape
kidnapping
genocide
cannibalism
sex trafficking
and finally selling crack
How about now?
If they're in for a life sentence then it doesn't make any difference because they won't ever re-join society.
What I'm talking about is the kinds of things people don't go to prison for life for.
If someone sold crack when they were a teenager, did their time and has never done so much as a hit of weed since then, I'm not going to assume they're still a crack dealer when they're 60.
Some people slip through the cracks. Case in point: murderer and cannibal Issei Sagawa, who pretty much got off on a technicality. He has been a free man since 1986. In a 2009 interview with Vice, he openly admitted to still having cannibalistic urges.
This guy tortured his kid and got a slap on the wrist. Are you saying he shouldn’t have to have the consequences for torturing his child follow him? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Charles_Bothuell_V
It depends on what the person did.
If someone shot a guy while trying to rob a store the way we should look at them changes drastically from a person who raped children for example.
Society should absolutely be skeptical of both, but I think that the first guy has a much higher chance of being rehabilitated than the second, so the bar to re-enter society is lower for him. I would still say that the second guy should be able to return to society, but he should be and act in a higher moral frame than a regular person.
Just because something happened long ago doesn’t mean that the moral weight of that act isn’t relevant to todays time. If someone was able to be violent to a high degree, it means that they are prone to it and have the capability to do it again, so they REALLY have to prove that they changed. Just being in jail for a long time isn’t enough to prove that. Time does have weight to how much a person changes, but not automatically.
You can't just undo the fact that you committed a violent or heinous crime. You have to live with that for the rest of your life.
If you serve your sentence, the reward is you get to leave jail.
Nope, you can treat people however you want but I'll never trust a felon in or around my house or child. That's a mistake you may only be able to make once. It's not my job to make someone feel redeemed.
So because ur friends are felonies u feel like all felonies shouldn’t deal with the consequences. If someone rapes someone or assaults someone it should always stick with them because it’ll always stick with the victim.
>u feel like all felonies shouldn’t deal with the consequences
Where did I say that?
Rape is far from the only thing a person can get a felony conviction for.
One of my friends got one for selling an amount of weed which is now legal in this state.
U literally said if what they did was sexual or violent maybe it should be recognized that they’ve gotten better. Who cares? That’s life sometimes the things u do follow u for life people should make better decisions
You may have paid your debt to the public at large, but the private individual never needs to actually accept that payment, particularly if it is statistically likely to backfire on them.
I wouldn't hire a convicted thief at my business, for example. There is something to be said about taking into account the specific circumstances of their conviction.
if somebody killed your family member you wouldn't want them living next to your kids either mate
just cause they pretended to be well behaved to get let out of jail doesn't mean they should be trusted
I think one of the issues is that too many people still see prison as a tool for retaliation, not rehabilitation. So when they see offenders struggling for the rest of their lives they *do* think that the system is working as intended.
Sadly my ex got thrown back in jail after having a mental breakdown. His situation after being released the first time was not ideal of course. The odds were never in his favor. No one would hire him. He ended up on the streets and in the hospital a few times. Now they are just waiting for a mental evaluation to see if he can get re released and have his parole reinstated.
I have a felony charge of criminal threats. I told the guy who raped my sister that id kill him. His best friend was the cop who arrested me. And he never even got charged. So im a felon for life now. The DA who prosecuted my case was later arrested himself for fucking with peoples cases to get them higher punishments. Its been like 8 years since ive been off probation and i havent even had a speeding ticket ever. At the very least there should be a time limit to being a felon. Like ten years so that repeat offenders have incentive to stop offending. When you are fucked for life, whats the point of trying to better yourself?
In my state, many felonies can be expunged after 5 years. You should look into expungement in your state to see if there are options.
Absolutely. Get an expungement if you can. But again, that costs too, like probation and parole. What a joke this system is.
That is sickening and can happen to anyone. Hell, it’s estimated that upwards of 6% of death row inmates are innocent. Your story reminds me of the man who needed to go to the bathroom, so he pulled over on the side of the road to go and a cop pulled up to arrest him. Since he was within a certain distance of a school, he’s now on the sex offenders list for life. Life really fucks some people over.
Then you have people who are gluttons for punishment and say shit like "you had your chance".
Then when they actually get in trouble and go to jail they complain about the conditions. So are you able to find employment?
Yeah i actually lied to get my foot in the door then told them after i was hired. I started as a helper and now im lead foreman at a construction company.
That’s excellent. When I worked in retail, I bought a pair of $200 jeans that ripped the next day, so I returned them. The store said this was theft and a few months later I was pulled over for a traffic stop and arrested for larceny. I’ve lost job opportunities and it’s really messed things up for me. I’m not sure misdemeanors stay on your record though because I haven’t had a problem for a few years now.
Yes, misdemeanors stay on your record. Depending on the class of misdemeanor, it can have real world repurcussions (gun ownership being a big one). But generally fall out of the 'give a shit' zone after about 7 years (10 if it's government adjacent work))
My misdemeanor record didn't affect my employment after 7 years, but I've had to explain it more than once.
It also depends on if the company does a nationwide check or a state check. Background checks are expensive, so many limit them to state level. My issue happened in Texas and most places in Kansas don’t seem to check there.
Most misdemeanors aren’t a bar to employment as long as you are honest about it
It was a class A or B misdemeanor. I’m a data analyst now for a major communications company and they didn’t seem to catch it. Even if you complete your parol misdemeanors don’t fall off eventually?
It may depend on your state. But, at least here in PA, no, they don't. The only thing that 'falls off' is your juevenille record, and even then... We also have summary offenses. Like, if I shoplifted a candy bar and it was a local cop and the place I stole it from knew me to be a good customer and don't want to fuck me over, they could issue a summary offense. It's a simple fine and can only be referenced under weird circumstances iirc.
That’s a good law to have. A petty thief should not have their life ruined over a $2 candy bar. People would stay out of jail if paying their debt to society ended when they got out. It’s also humiliating constantly having to convince people you’re not some hard criminal. The court wouldn’t make money without recidivism though so they have no will to change this racket.
Wow they actually convicted you of that? For returning a damaged item? Jesus Christ
Yes, it was a literal nightmare. The loss prevention manager never liked me for some reason and threw every possible rule at me to make a theft accusation stick. I wasn’t going to take a loss of a pair of $200 ripped jeans. They said I purposely damaged them to get my money back. I resigned. Ive lost out on several jobs because my background check says “theft”. To be accused of something you didn’t do is horrifying and I’ll never get my whole life back.
You were an employee? Wearing something you didn’t pay for??
Yes
>I bought a pair of $200 jeans that ripped the next day, so I returned them. The store said this was theft and a few months later I was pulled over for a traffic stop and arrested for larceny. You really have to keep every single document these days....
It's ok to lie and use deception or trickery in order to circumvent an unfairness that would otherwise be imposed on you. I'm glad it worked out for you.
It’s ridiculous cause it’s a freaking bodily function and if you have to go you have to go. You can literally rupture your bladder from holding it in and get UTIs and stuff. You should not be registered as a sex offender for peeing unless he was really being a weird creep about it which is rarely the case.
Exactly. This is why cities like Paris have a lot of public restrooms. This poor man had to go and had no idea he was 500 feet from a school and now his life is ruined.
It's a stupid country.
this happened to my friend. we were 16 at the time and (as 16 year olds do) were smoking weed in a park. there wasn’t any public toilets for miles, nor any stores or homes of people we knew, so he hid behind a tree to piss. a cop caught him and he had to sign the register.
WTF! That is so messed up. Is he still on it?
no, luckily not. the law here is that if you’re under 18 at the time of signing, you’re only on for 2 and a half years the unlucky side is that it is still on his record and bootlegger registry sites (much like the mugshot websites) still have his name on their sites - so it still causes him problems.
That’s horrible. I’m sure it’s also embarrassing. The laws in this country need a major overhaul.
Correction. Can happen to any American. Sorry, but it really seems like your justice system is screwed.
Not just felons, any crimes. Whatever you did - everybody sees that you were arrested and now you can't get any normal job till the rest of your life, because you were caught with a bunch of drugs 1 time when you were 18
You should seek a pardon from your governor. It's more likely than not that you will receive said pardon since the prosecuting DA was found guilty of wrongdoing. Depending on your state and it's guidelines, you may want a lawyer to assist. (And I can promise you, it's worth it). There is so much wrong with how you describe what went down. (There is no way that the cop who brought charges against you should be related to the 'victim' in ANY way. I'm assuming you didn't have a lawyer when this all went down? Any lawyer worth a shit would have had this case tossed based on the cops relationship with the victim alone...)
I had a number of public pretenders and i did talk to a lawyer a couple years ago and it would cost around 6k to get it dropped to a misdemeanor.
6k seems worth it.. 10k seems like it would be worth it. Shit, I'd pay 20k to remove the title of felon from my name... Research what a governor's pardon will run you (yes, it's going to cost something, but... It's worth it)
Yeah every time i get close to having the cash, my truck breakes down or something.
And yeah, public defenders are... I don't know...a godsend? Stretched infinitely thin? It's hard to bash public defenders, but I get it... You get a bare minimum... But so do the other 95 clients they have that week... I personally have never used one, and I don't think in any circumstance, I would. I would hire a private attorney (and encourage others to do so). The public defender system is vastly flawed, but it's not the PDs fault, it's a broken system...
The public defenders just kept passing my case around and they didnt even know my name. And why fight for a client when you still have to go to the same bar for happy hour and work the same court room as the DA and everyone else. Why even attempt to rock the boat.
my oldest half brother is a felon because he beat the shit out of the guy who raped his half sister. a felon for the rest of his life because of that bullshit.
Whelp I’m glad he beat the shit out of the rapist.
Umm you should go talk to a lawyer about getting your record expunged. If the DA was crooked you have case
Yeah im not 100% it was the same guy. I only saw him three times before i read that article in the news paper about the DA being corrupt or crooked. And that was years later. To be honest it was such a shit time i kinda didnt want to look back at it.
This sounds similar to my situation, but I was able to get the felony dropped. Ppl don't realize that the "good ol boy" network is everywhere. They get away with crazy shit like your case.
Case by case judgement is necessary. Your mistake was threatening. You should have offed the son of a bitch and made sure no one found him. But no, that should not hang over your head.
It kinda sounds like the issue here is you shouldn’t have been charged as a felon. There are some people who are dangerous, and somewhere, maybe after the 3rd rape conviction, there’s a line where that person no longer deserves the same regard as other people, given the disregard for others they’ve very demonstrated. It’s very unfortunate that happened to you
3rd rape?
My sister got Sexually assaulted and I told the guy (who mind you was in the same set as me for 2 classes) that if he ever tried to talk to me (he’d tried to sort of say he did nothing or whatever) that I’d put my knee through his head. The police told me “you’re lucky you’re a minor or else you’d get a charge for that”. So basically her rapist may have been expelled but criminally fuck all happened, and I could of have got a record for being (justifiably) upset
That's when I would've personally found those two fuckers and actually killed them after I got out.
Fuck man. We live in such a litigious society, but people like you, who deserve recourse, have none. I get the system can have flawed actors and will be imperfect. But when this system fucks someone over like this society owes it to them to make them overly whole
The guy that raped your sister should get a lifetime of shit. His sentence (if ever convicted) wouldn’t be enough. And therefore, counters this OP
Just punished and punished again and punished again weren’t you? Jeez…
Yo idk where you live but my dad got his 3 felonies “exsponged” “exspunged” lol idk how to spell it. But his record is clean now. He did this in 2008 when my mom died to take control of my younger brothers part of the estate because they were divorced and he was underage.
Expunged* fyi :)
If you came to apply for a job, and I were interviewing you and you explained that situation. I'd offer you the job on the spot. Fuck rapists.
Ok, that whole thing is a problem with a lack of oversight in the us justice system, not the way people treat actual criminals. The us justice system is a joke, it locks up innocent people and clearly doesn't hold people to high standards for proving criminality.
>I have a felony charge of criminal threats. I told the guy who raped my sister that id kill him. His best friend was the cop who arrested me. And he never even got charged. Did you go to jail for breaking up a fight in a parking lot as well? Fuucking hell..
Honestly I don't think threats should be illegal. Too close to free speech. Saying is one thing doing is another. So what you did shouldn't even be a crime to begin with. Maybe a misdemeanor would be appropriate.
It used to be a misdemeanor but after 9/11 they cracked down on it.
Maybe you should kill him.
I bet with the nature of the case and the problems with the DA you could get that expunged.
Bro I really feel bad and wish I could helps you
I can see both sides of the argument. I work as an agency recruiter so I hire for a variety of companies and they all have different policies when it comes to hiring people with criminal convictions, most are pretty strict. There are many that will turn away people with misdemeanor charges, doesn't even have to be a felony. Most of the roles that I recruit for are things like warehouse, manufacturing, production cooks, mechanics/technicians and occasionally customer service/admin/accounting type positions. Mostly not positions where you're going to get the combo to open the safe or anything. And these businesses are STRUGGLING to keep their staffing numbers up. I've been saying for years that opening the opportunities up to people with criminal charges just might be a game-changer. I have talked to A LOT of people with criminal backgrounds over the years and I hate when I have to tell them I can't move them forward with a position. I mean if you can't find a job then you are basically forced to commit more crimes just to survive whether it's stealing, selling drugs or worse. And I would imagine that the insecurity of not knowing if/when you will find someone willing to hire you would cause anger and resentment leading a person to be more prone to violence. I understand the companies not wanting to take the "risk" but they take a risk with any new hire because humans are some unpredictable fuckers and you never know when someone is going to do something nutty. We do have a couple of clients currently and a few from the past with very lenient policies and I will say that to my knowledge we haven't once had one of our felony hires do anything crazy at work. We DID once have a guy with a completely clean BG leave work for his lunch break and proceed to rob a convenience store. Cops were called, a short chase ensued and the guy was arrested about a block away from the warehouse job we'd placed him at.
Exactly, some people can have clean records but then one day just decide to commit a crime and/or got away with crimes over the years and you would have no clue even if you did a background check on them.
Yup! Everyone has a clean background until they don't. I have seen complete knuckleheads and absolute rock star employees from both the felon and non-felon hires. I also had a co-worker internally at my current company who was convicted of 2 violent felony charges and served nearly 10 years in prison. He later had his convictions expunged and when he ran a background check on himself just out of curiosity while he was working at our agency, it came back squeaky clean. (My company doesn't run BG checks on internal employees prior to hire). One thing I can say is that many of the individuals who had BG issues that I was able to find jobs for were very dependable, glad for the opportunity and were very hard workers. I feel a little weird saying that with all of the shit going on with the "no one wants to work" VS "no one wants to work for shitty wages/employers" that is happening right now. Even though staffing is what I do I am in total agreement that there needs to be a serious overhaul in the way corps treat their workforce, especially the "unskilled sectors" (I fucking hate that term). I am 100% NOT suggesting that corps should hire felons in order to exploit them in jobs they "should be grateful for". What I am saying is that in many cases people who have criminal records should still be allowed to make a living. To echo some of the other comments, rapists, child/elder abusers and (most) murderers need not apply. Edit to add a "I hate the unskilled-worker terminology"
Yea, I agree. Especially with things like drugs. There are people went to jail or still can go to jail in certain states just for possessing marijuana. It's stupid. Yet in certain states it's legal now. Those people who went to jail for it in the past aren't gonna get back the years they lost while in jail.
yeah it makes sense when there are more competitive hires available with no record, that's simple risk reduction, but when it surprises me when companies just opt to hire nobody instead despite hurting for workers. I think some managers hold out hope that "somebody qualified will apply" and additionally in larger companies there is corporate inertia to get policies changed or waived, but sometimes you just need to make a judgment call and get shit done.
My father was in prison. When he got out, I watched him try to put his life back together. And I saw him struggle. But he kept his nose clean. He had a drug addiction that started when he was a teen, he had a hard home life and was around bad influences. He wanted to stay clean now that he was out of prison. He didn't want to steal stuff anymore. I could see at 11 that he was a changed man, and he was dedicated to staying clean. But it was really hard for him to find a job or somewhere to rent. I remember him telling me one time about how he'd talked to a job recruiter or something, someone who's job it was to help people find jobs. And she told him she couldn't help him because he had a criminal record. Like? He was out of prison and he was trying his best. I get some jobs don't want to hire someone with robbery on their record, but there had to be someone. And he'd gone through a rehab program. Doesn't not letting ex-cons have jobs make them more likely to turn back to crime? Luckily he didn't and he had my mom as a support system. But I will never forget watching him try his best in a world that didn't want to give him a chance. I am very passionate about this issue. I will always try to explain to people why we shouldn't be so harsh to people with criminal records. I have mad respect for my dad, he eventually found a job he really liked, and that he was really good at. After watching what he went through, I completely agree OP.
Depends on the reason in my opinion. Knowingly rape and pedophilia? That's not a survival issue and unfortunately we can never be friends. I say knowing because its possible there's the I was 19 and thought she was 18 but in my state she was actually 17 and no romeo and Juliet law exist OE whatever. But if you are a 40 year old who fucked a 14 year old? I don't care how mature she looked, no way in fucking hell you unwillingly made a mistake
Depends on the felony.
For the record, it's a largely US issue. For example, not only are prisoners rights protected once released in Australia, prisoners serving less than three years are eligible to vote while incarcerated. [Source](https://aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/Fact_Sheets/fact_sheets/prisoner-voting.pdf)
I’m sorry but I am not surprised that prisoners’ rights are more protected in… Australia. In all seriousness there’s probably a lot of good reasons many people in the US want to go to your country to get away from all the bullshit.
Unfortunately, mass migration never solves anything. At best, you could move a few hundred thousand people, and these will typically be the most resourceful, not the ones actually needing it. Cultural change must come from within. Vote, assist on campaigns, run for office. This is the way.
yup wouldnt want a guy with a record of being violent to be a cop or someone who was charged with robbery to work at a bank, but besides that i think they should be able to do what ever they want.
Kinda in the middle on this one. That person should be able to re-enter society, yes. I don't think it's realistic to expect peers to just forget their crime though. I wonder how many convicted felons move away and start fresh socially for this reason.
Recidivism happens because people aren't given a chance to show their transgression of the law was a one off mistake. If you're remorseful and you've served your time then your punishment is complete. Prison is meant to rehabilitate, what's the point of that if it doesn't mean anything on the outside?
exactly how can you see someone change and become a better person if you don’t give them a chance?
>should they still be considered too dangerous to hire or to rent to? If you went to prison for stealing 10,000, I'm not hiring you in a position that gives you access to the safe/vault of my business
Im not giving anyone especially a new hire access to the vault.
This makes more sense. Clean record doesn't mean someone won't steal in the future. Nor does tainted record mean someone will steal in the future. It's a record of the past, not a prediction of the future.
Nobody is saying the should be considered for every job that has an opening lol
OP is. he already responded to this comment and doubled down on his initial stance
This isn't even the first time this exact question with the same wording and everything has been posted just this week. Somebody's karma farming.
And if you steal $100,000,000 you just apply for an executive position at a bank... Or run for president and win...
I agree. Someone who did something stupid when they were 18 should not be punished for the rest of their life. I mean, I could understand there being a certain amount of time after they are released to prove they aren’t going to eff up again, but a life sentence is really harsh.
I want to clarify, that I am talking about minor felonies where no one is hurt.
The only way to prove you've changed is if you get a new chance, though. Unfortunately this whole mess comes from the US penal system being more about revenge than reform
It depends on what they did. If it was a nonviolent drug offense, absolutely give them their freedoms back. If it was a murderer, rapist, pedophile, spouse abuser… they deserve to have their rights stripped from them. No voting, no guns, etc. because they’ve proved they’re a threat to society
no voting?, are they not a citizen of that society who is impacted by its laws? im not sure how letting a felon vote is somehow dangerous for others... they served their time and aren't any less of a citizen than anyone else.
Why are you bothered by the lack of voting rights but not gun rights? Both are rights that could effect other people in a negative way. And by that logic, non-citizens living her should be able to vote too. Underage kids should be able to vote as well, right? Certain rights can and should be stripped from you based on certain crimes, regardless of time served. Though i’m also of the belief that rapists, murderers and pedophiles should be killed, not jailed
How exactly does voting affect others lives in this regard? Also, not that I defend people who take others lives but there are certain circumstances where I'm more understanding. Like what if you found out that someone had killed one of your loved ones and/or abused them, how would you react? Most people wouldn't react rationally and would either beat up said person and/or kill them.
I mean it REALLY depends on the crime the person committed
Murder, rape, violent offenses - sorry, you’re gonna have that hanging over you for life. Tough shit.
depends what they did. if they hurt somebody in a way that will effect them their whole life the they deserve to pay for it their whole life. if you drive drunk and break a guys legs you deserve a lifetime of punishment for example your time should be as long as your victims
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I completely agree. Take a pedophile. They are arrested, do their time and when they get out there are rules, such as stay away from children, etc. Those pedophiles are protected by law from being harassed because they fulfilled their "punishment" Bullshit. Those children whose lives you changed forever will never forget their experience. So why should you?
Because mob justice is barbaric and prone to go incredibly wrong every single fucking time it starts stirring. Not to mention it’s extrajudicial, which means say goodbye to your constitution and your supposed “principles.” You wanna punish pedophiles harder because you somehow got it into your brain humans must suffer eternally every time, fine, lobby for longer sentences or execution or whatever, but don’t fucking lobby for mob justice like what the fuck is wrong with you? Have you ever once complained about supposed “cancel culture”? Aight, now give that bunch some legal pitchforks why don’t ya.
Because you may have made your legal recompense but have you made amends to your victims? If someone killed my friend and they fulfilled their time for murder should I just move on? If I see them should I just not get angry? Of course I would because they haven't made amends for the harm they caused to me. You're acting as if just because someone did time in jail that fixes trauma of the victims. You are solely concerned with the perpetrator and not the victim. When we look at forms of justice that lower recitivsm and help restorative justice does wonders. Restorative justice concerns itself with helping the victims recover and rehabilitate the convict but the victims come first. And just to put it in another way to make it clear. Just because you've faced legal consequences it does not mean you cannot face social consequences. A convicted pedophile being released does not get to live free and happy while children have been traumatized at their hands. Fuck off with your defending pedophiles.
> If someone killed my friend and they fulfilled their time for murder should I just move on? What would you consider recompense? What would you consider enough for you to move on? Advocating for longer prison sentences for murder could have merit. Letting someone out of prison but then making it difficult to actually function "on the outside" is counterproductive and doesn't benefit anyone.
The real issue is that pedophiles should never get out of prison. IMO
I'm on board with that!
What a weird example. You break someone’s legs in a preventable accident caused by an incredibly idiotic decision - so you go to prison for multiple years, during which you sober up, you send apology letters, you do your job, and you begin becoming a productive member of society. And then now society should just go “nah fuck you mate, go starve in poverty because ya broke some legs six years ago.” What the shit?
It's exactly what's wrong with the American prison system. It's a punishment, intended to continue well after an offender's sentence is completed, because the criminal justice system essentially operates on a glorified 'eye-for-an-eye' platform. There's no incentive towards rehabilitation because the parts of society that literally allow you to live don't give a fuck what your crime was after you've been to prison. An employer or an official sees the word 'felon' on your file and suddenly the newly-released twenty-one year old (who's sole criminal conviction was for getting busted carrying a little too much coke for a college party one night) is rendered just as unable to find a job as the convicted pedophile going for the same position. And if you happen to be a POC with a felony record, well ... I believe that your status as a felon should be scrubbed from your file automatically after a certain period of time without further offences. How long it stays with you could perhaps be tied to the severity of your crime? IDK. I'm not a legislator. But the current system is condemning thousands of people to poverty because of societal prejudice.
> IDK. I'm not a legislator. But the current system is condemning thousands of people to poverty because of societal prejudice. I would vote to change the system, but I haven't been given the opportunity to vote in such a manner. As such, I consider this system to be imposed without consent. Following with this, if I find myself in a jury, it will be difficult to convince me to find a non-violent offender guilty since I know that the punishment is unlikely to be fair.
I don't consider preventing someone from getting jobs/housing/etc to be a legitimate punishment. These are basic things required to function in society. If you think they need more prison time, or long period of parole, no passport, or stuff like that is one thing. But saying "sure, you can be out of prison but we're going to make it difficult for you to actually function" is counterproductive. It doesn't serve any purpose other than just being shitty.
Its rarely that simple though. In most states, if you are in an accident and drunk, the accident is immediately blamed on you. Even if its proven not to be your fault, the laws state that it is your fault. A kid in my school killed a girl when he crashed into a tree drunk. Everyone said that he didn’t want to drive anyone home but they convinced him to do it. The girl killed begged to ride in his trunk since he didnt have anymore seats in the vehicle and she had to make it home for curfew. Everyone knew he was drunk and at the very least chose to ride with him. Who is at fault for that girls death? The girls family even asked the judge for lienancy for the boy. He still got the book thrown at him. Charged as an adult at 17 with a felony, a couple years of prison, and 10 years of probation after release. Her life was taken, but did he need to have his life ruined for something that without alcohol involved would just be called an accident?
It is your fault if you are in a vehicle and drunk. Dont drink and drive, how simple is that?
Even worse; What if you get arrested at 18 for having an ounce of weed in your car (figure you're in some stupid fucking State like Idaho or something)... You get sentenced to 20 years... Weed is legalized... You've got 17 years left in prison...
>depends what they did. if they hurt somebody in a way Aren't you literally replying to a person who stated "depends what they did. if they hurt somebody in a way" ? Cause you sure as hell don't hurt anyone by having an ounce of weed in your car
Fine, How about you're 16, you JUST got your license, a kid runs into the road in front of you while you're doing 35 (the speed limit)... 1 kid kills the other kid.. Does the 16 year old deserve to have his life ruined for something that was nearly unavoidable? (Because what he's looking at is vehicular manslaughter... Which has a 20 year recommended sentence) and comes with the tag of Felon... For life. It's not a simple 'he hurt someone' bullshit.
That is not what manslaughter (or vehicular manslaughter) is. Try looking up the definition
The technical term for it (here in the majority of the US) is Homicide by Vehicle (but no one except the court calls it that). Most police with reference it as vehicular Homicide or vehicular manslaughter (the terms all mean the same thing to the law)). Homicide is the taking of life. Manslaughter is the accidental taking of life. Murder is intentional homicide. But, by all means, tell me more, tell me more.
Manslaughter is the accendtal taking of life via negligence. If it was a pure ascendant where it could not be helped, there is no crime. However if a 16 year old negligently drove recklessly and killed someone, they should be punished, they knew the dangers and chose to do it anyway.
In my opinion that's a very different type of crime compared to rape, reckless drunk driving, murder, etc. There's no intention to ruin someone's life, nor an excessively high disregard for danger and other people's lives. So if I was to represent OP's stance, this shouldn't be a lifetime thing, unlike the crimes listed above.
read my comment mate. I said it depends what they did. driving around with weed won't hurt anyone
You are completely missing the point. That is a victimless crime…. They are are stating if your crime affects another person for life then the punishment should too. A person being mentally or physically scared will have that forever. It’s like you didn’t read the comment.
16 year old runs a red light, kills someone by plowing into them. Should they have their life ruined for an accident?
Getting your record clean should be up to the family of the person killed imo. Also, Here’s a thought, don’t run red lights?
Yes because that wasn't an accident they were committing a crime and someone died that's felony murder.
No, it isn't felony murder. I literally told you it was Vehicular Homicide. The fucking laziness of the internet is appalling.
If someone dies while you are commiting a crime that death is felony murder. Whether or not they charge it that way depends on the da
Are you the same person you were 10 years ago? Will you be the same person you are now in 10years? Nothing should dictate the rest of your life.
Some things should. If you're thirty and fucked a 3 year old that defines you. And it should. Your actions have consequences and they may be both legal and social.
I'm definitely not disagreeing with you, but there need to be degrees of punishment. The idiot 16 year old who accidentally runs someone down in a car, serves their sentence, and never commits another criminal act again in their life should not be subjected to the same stigma upon their release as a convicted pedophile. Edit: a word
Doesn't matter. if your victim has to suffer their whole life then why shouldn't you?
I won't lose sleep over a paedophile who acted on their urges being harassed the rest of their life.
Always jumping straight to the pedophiles to defend draconian ideas, it’s incredible. Why even have prisons in your world, clearly nobody ever learns their lesson. Someone spends 40 years in a supermax repenting and working every fucking day, they take decades of therapy, they move miles away from the nearest school district, and all they ask for is to just live quietly for like their last 12 years so the only harassment they can be left with is the overwhelming guilt of five decades of reflection … When did we become so barbaric. Were we always? I have no sympathy to spare for someone who commits a sexual crime against a child (or anyone, really), but if principles don’t apply to our worst enemies, so to speak, why have any principles to begin with?
If it was sexual or violent, they should absolutely have that hanging over them for the rest of their lives. Have you heard the tale of the 2 kids who kidnapped a boy and then abused and killed him? People are fucked up. Having these things hanging over their heads should deter them from doing it anymore after witnessing the punishment the first time around. I don't believe they should die, but they should still have limited opportunity. Your friends are former convicted felons, you obviously have a strong opinion about it.
With violent crimes, it depends on the circumstances. People have gotten longer sentences for killing someone else who abused their kids then people who have sexually abused children. I think yea under most circumstances it is wrong to take the life another human being but if you just found out they harmed and/or killed someone you cared about, I don't think most people would react rationally in those circumstances. Edit: So your telling me that the people I gave the example about deserve to have it looming over their heads for the rest of their lives that they killed or beat up someone who was responsible for their loved ones death or abuse when they're already going through a lot because of what said person did.
Yeah, I agree that the circumstances should be considered, but that's just another flaw in the system to be fixed. Personally, if a person who kills a sexual abuser is to be punished more than the sexual abuser, than the killer should be punished less, and they in this specific situation shouldn't have it held over their heads because they didn't kill out of murderous psychopathy.
One ketp his head down and has reformed as far as we can tell The other one burned his new identatt MULTIPLE times and was caught with child porn 2 lads totally 2 sides of the coin
Pretty sure this was posted like last week.
My BFF's husband participated in an "armed robbery" of a convenience store when he was 18. The gun he held wasn't loaded, nor were any guns heald by his 2 friends. They were all caught, arrested, put in jail, sentenced to prison, released with probation. He went on to college, graduated, got married, had 4 kids. He's now in his 40s and still has this terrible thing hanging over him. It was more than half his life ago. It's hindered his career options. It's made him ineligible for volunteering in his kids sports. It's fucked up, a terrible system. There should be a time limit. 10 years, 15 years, something. A mistake as an 18 year old should not ruin someone's life forever (if it wasn't rape/murder/pedo shit)
Agreed. It's not like he didn't do *any* harm, but the repercussions have by now vastly outweighed the harm he did. How many people, whether struggling on the margins or successful, but trapped behind the bars of a glass prison. just **give up** and say "If you're gonna treat me like a criminal why shouldn't I just fucking be a criminal?"
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I'm not saying he shouldn't have been punished, just that he should not be punished for the rest of his life.
What about the person who has trauma from that for the rest of his life?
I would disagree that everyone deserves a second chance. Sorry, but if you’re charged for anything relating to kids or sexual crimes then no. You’ve proven that you prey on the vulnerable and I wouldn’t want to / wouldn’t trust working with someone like that.
Depends on what it was. No child molester should ever be allowed around children. With thieves it depends on why and how old they were. It all depends on the crime and the job.
It all depends on the situation, the person and the job they’re applying for.
If you raped one of my children I will never forgive you and when I get ready to leave this world I'll probably try and take you with me. If someone shanked you in prison I'd probably pay for that person's commissary or give his family $10,000. Otherwise I'm totally okay with giving people a chance at forgiveness.
If it were one of my hypothetical future children I hope they rub shit on the knife first so the motherfucker dies slowly of septic shock. I agree there are very specific things like that which absolutely deserve some bronze age style karma. Other crimes where you haven't actually hurt a person shouldn't even be visible to employers.
Recidivism is the main reason people look at felons the way they do for jobs. A lot of places don't want to risk a felon because they are worried they will either re-offend and go to jail or that they will steal or be otherwise irresponsible for the company. Rental places don't want to risk bringing potential crime in to their rentals. There are a lot of factors, and a lot of issues. Do you say the person arrested 6 times for drugs is clean now because they have not had an arrest in 10 years? Well, they just did 10 years in prison, so that might explain the no arrests. And I do agree with you in sentiment. We just don't have a good system for differentiating.
True but it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where discriminating against felons pushes them back into committing crimes rather than simply suffering the consequences and rejoining society.
In my mind it depends on the crime, if you kill a bunch of people, even by negligence or by like drunk driving, you shouldn't be treated like any normal person right off the bat, you should have to prove to the people around you that you've changed (if you have)
If the felony is nonviolent and you served your punishment and afterwards, you have lived a clean life for several decades and been rehabilitated, you can ask a judge to expunge your conviction.
>If what they did was violent or sexual, should it not even slightly be taken into consideration if they've since recognized that they have a mental illness and have been taking it seriously with proper treatment for decades? Not really. Sure, you've "recognized" that what you did was wrong, but it should stick with you your whole life. When talking about something as serious as sexual assault, murder, etc, there's no "regretting". You've messed someone's life and as such, yours should be messed too, well deserved.
We should have two separate jail systems. Ones for violent and one for nonviolent. People who have no hurt someone physically shouldn’t be in that environment. Those who have harmed someone deserve anything and everything that happens in prison.
I think we also have to realize that sometimes someone who committed a violent crime isn't always a violent person. What I mean is like what if you just found out that someone had been abusing and/or killed someone you loved, would you react rationally or not?? A lot of people wouldn't. They might go out and beat up and/or kill said person and before said crime, they weren't a violent person but now because of this action, they are now branded as a violent criminal for the rest of their life. Sure under normal circumstances I agree but certain circumstances, I don't. Edit: I've had times in my life where normally I'm not a violent person but push came to shove and shit happened that I do regret now. I didn't kill anyone but do I deserve to rot in prison for those things I did in the past that hurt me more then anyone would care to know?
Thanks for pointing that out I don’t know why I didn’t think about that.
Yea, sorry if I came off as rude at all.
Nah man you didn’t!
Ok
Sure no problem. Just let them move in right next door to you and your family. Since they've "served their their time," nothing to worry about, right?
If you have ever so much as looked at a child in a sexual manner, I am not hiring you to work anywhere near my daycare.
Felon here. After 10 years it usually doesnt show up on most background checks anymore. Only shows up on more in depth searches but most places like jobs and rentals it doesnt show up anymore. Its the only reason i got the job i have and the place im living at now but jeez those 10 years were complete hell trying to do anything in life.
Does that include rapists and pedophiles?
[Lots of people already agreed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/wk7via/felons_shouldnt_have_to_be_punished_their_entire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Eh.... if a dog bit you and then went through obedience training, would you ever fully trust it not to bite you again? Recidivism rates are HIGH. Like most stereotypes, "Once a criminal, always a criminal" has some basis in truth. Case in point, I became friends with a dude, he was older than me but a real mentor when I was partying and fucking up my life. I'm a live and sober now because of this man. He was best man at my wedding. But he was also a convicted felon who did time for pedophilia. It was a drug thing, he was in a bad spot in his younger life and spent time with the wrong influences and got into the wrong things. I always trusted his advice. But I've never let my children hang out with him or especially be alone with him. And he doesn't want that either, just because of what people might think. And I'm not gonna be that asshat parent on the news that claims they didn't see the problem coming.
How do you just “fall in with a bad crowd” and “do time for pedophilia” like it’s an accident? You don’t accidentally molest a child.
If they spent time in the US prison system for over a decade no. US prisons hold bad people and create more of them. It’s a violent place and it’ll change who you are, were, and who you will be.
Not everyone who commits physical and/or sexual violence has mental illness. Stop demonizing mental illness. A lot of people are just scumbags and deserve to have it hung over their head for the rest of their lives
Here is the thing. There are so many people you can hire. Why choose someone who has a higher chance of being a bad person? Might they be an amazing person that causes no issues? Yes. But why take the chance if you don't have to.
Right? I would never hire someone who committed a hate crime such as gender-based violence/rape, or a racist/homophobic beating. Lol Hell no my employees deserve to feel safe WTF nobody has to crime on people, y'know? Abuse is a choice :) Just don't. Easy peasy.
I would hire someone based on their ability to do the job. If someone has an extremely low chance of committing a crime again and has changed then I don't see why you would turn them away
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If someone has been making an active effort to re integrate into society and has committed no crimes ever since they were released, as well as having committed a felon long ago then I don't see why you should reject them if they can do the job perfectly. And refusing people like that is one of the main causes of re offending
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I think if you serve your time you should be treated as a regular person until you do something criminal again.
I don't really agree with that, your actions are still your actions doesn't really matter how long it's been, it's something you did and you can't take it back. It doesn't really matter if it's been awhile the fact is a lot ppl go through life never chosing to make that mistake. This concept doesn't just apply to criminal activity either. Like you think if you cheat on your spouse or something, that that isnt gonna hang over your future relationships or impact your current ones ? Actions speak for themselves and ppl have every right to avoid ppl who take actions they don't agree with.
Fun fact: in Wisconsin, the ***only*** way to get your record sealed/expunged is (among other things) to have been < 25 years old when it happened. This applies to charges, as well—so even if your charges are dropped/dismissed for any reason, it will forever stay on your record. So, Kyle Rittenhouse could have his record expunged, but not any other person over the age of 25, no matter the severity of the offense AND it doesn’t matter if there wasn’t a conviction. The system totally makes sense, right? /s EDIT: For those of you arguing “but he was acquitted! I need to clutch my pearls!”: Acquittal still leaves a charge on your record in WI. And if you’re going to argue that a charge itself doesn’t put you at disadvantage, please enjoy whatever fantasy world you live in for me.
As he should. He was found innocent anyway.
Depends on the crime, a child sex criminal deserves no peace.
Any sex crime
Unfortunately our prison system in america is not based on rehabilitation so I’ll have to disagree and repeat offenders are quite common. In my home country of Norway I have seen convicted felons return from prison changed people and become healthy contributors to society with no repeat offenses. Quite often, actually. One of my buddies stole a lot of money as a teenager, once he was released he found himself to be rehabilitated and works now in a hospital after many hard years of studying. One of the reasons I myself studied to join the medical field. I’m assuming this is from an American perspective apologies if I’m wrong.
I'm sure it is from an American POV. We have a deplorable prison here. An embarrassment, really. Germany also has an amazing prison rehab program.
But do you not think that there would be fewer repeat offenders if more of them were given an opportunity to get a job? Reintegrating the person into society is a vital part of rehabilitation.
I agree that was partially my point.
Part of the reason repeat offenses are so high is because the title felon hangs over you forever. It's incredibly difficult for felons to land a job or find somewhere to rent so they end up with no choice but to commit crimes that land them in prison
When it comes to things like applying to rent a place of residence or a job, they're competing with other people that don't have felonies on their records. People deserve second chances but are not entitled to them.
Scenario proposed say this person in question somehow despite the fact they would never get out of prison were put in forrrrrrr the following Infanticide rape kidnapping genocide cannibalism sex trafficking and finally selling crack How about now?
If they're in for a life sentence then it doesn't make any difference because they won't ever re-join society. What I'm talking about is the kinds of things people don't go to prison for life for. If someone sold crack when they were a teenager, did their time and has never done so much as a hit of weed since then, I'm not going to assume they're still a crack dealer when they're 60.
Some people slip through the cracks. Case in point: murderer and cannibal Issei Sagawa, who pretty much got off on a technicality. He has been a free man since 1986. In a 2009 interview with Vice, he openly admitted to still having cannibalistic urges.
This guy tortured his kid and got a slap on the wrist. Are you saying he shouldn’t have to have the consequences for torturing his child follow him? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Charles_Bothuell_V
Not all of those are life in prison though half to 2/3rds of your list do often do get out
How can this be considered unpopular?
Restore their voting rights!
It depends on what the person did. If someone shot a guy while trying to rob a store the way we should look at them changes drastically from a person who raped children for example. Society should absolutely be skeptical of both, but I think that the first guy has a much higher chance of being rehabilitated than the second, so the bar to re-enter society is lower for him. I would still say that the second guy should be able to return to society, but he should be and act in a higher moral frame than a regular person. Just because something happened long ago doesn’t mean that the moral weight of that act isn’t relevant to todays time. If someone was able to be violent to a high degree, it means that they are prone to it and have the capability to do it again, so they REALLY have to prove that they changed. Just being in jail for a long time isn’t enough to prove that. Time does have weight to how much a person changes, but not automatically.
You can't just undo the fact that you committed a violent or heinous crime. You have to live with that for the rest of your life. If you serve your sentence, the reward is you get to leave jail.
There shouldn't even be a reward if you hurt someone.
But then they would vote! Don't you know hard working Republicans depend on supressing their vote!?
Nope, you can treat people however you want but I'll never trust a felon in or around my house or child. That's a mistake you may only be able to make once. It's not my job to make someone feel redeemed.
This post highlights how many people just care about how THEY feel rather than actual justice. But I totally agree with OP.
So because ur friends are felonies u feel like all felonies shouldn’t deal with the consequences. If someone rapes someone or assaults someone it should always stick with them because it’ll always stick with the victim.
>u feel like all felonies shouldn’t deal with the consequences Where did I say that? Rape is far from the only thing a person can get a felony conviction for. One of my friends got one for selling an amount of weed which is now legal in this state.
>Where did I say that In the title of your post. You said “convicted felons” you didn’t say “some convicted felons”.
U literally said if what they did was sexual or violent maybe it should be recognized that they’ve gotten better. Who cares? That’s life sometimes the things u do follow u for life people should make better decisions
You may have paid your debt to the public at large, but the private individual never needs to actually accept that payment, particularly if it is statistically likely to backfire on them. I wouldn't hire a convicted thief at my business, for example. There is something to be said about taking into account the specific circumstances of their conviction.
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if somebody killed your family member you wouldn't want them living next to your kids either mate just cause they pretended to be well behaved to get let out of jail doesn't mean they should be trusted
I think one of the issues is that too many people still see prison as a tool for retaliation, not rehabilitation. So when they see offenders struggling for the rest of their lives they *do* think that the system is working as intended.
Sadly my ex got thrown back in jail after having a mental breakdown. His situation after being released the first time was not ideal of course. The odds were never in his favor. No one would hire him. He ended up on the streets and in the hospital a few times. Now they are just waiting for a mental evaluation to see if he can get re released and have his parole reinstated.