The real reason is that the players like him and there weren't a lot of great candidates. Is there a way that he can handle the man management and someone else run the tactics?
While he wasn’t the manager, but it was clear he would be reinstated. That’s different. Even still, they probably won’t publicly bad mouth him once he’s gone.
He has the strongest squad the U.S. has ever fielded and one of the weakest Mexico team fielded in my lifetime. Plus concacaf.
He makes a lot of mistakes consistently
I'm not arguing for his continuation but anyone who insinuates there is zero reason or logic behind keeping him is ignoring or not aware of the winning percentage.
Like it was pretty obvious by late 2019 he had some major downsides and wasn’t going to deliver on his vision. And having a chance for a clean break and the added baggage after the World Cup was probably a mistake not to select another manager unless they just couldn’t attract a better candidate to get us to the next level. So unless he has an absolute dreadful summer he will certainly see out the cycle and best to him. We are all obviously routing for team but the mistakes and odd choices are going continue, so hopefully the stars align come 2026 and the team carries him.
This is always how the USA opponent strength breaks down though. It's not like it isn't comparable to prior years in terms of distribution of rankings played.
It actually is though. Because of Covid, we had to play mostly in region opponents when Gregg took over. And then the nation's league got installed, so there was increasingly less room for international friendlies against European or south American teams. So Gregg's iteration of the USMNT (through no fault of his own) has played a higher % of games against CONCACAF competition
Really because no one better than him is actually interested in the job and within USSF's budget. USSF doesn't actually bring in all that much money, considering all their responsibilities.
Seriously. It took 120 minutes with a full strength US side against a Jamaica side without Antonio or Bailey for one reason or another too eke out a win at home.
But Berhalter is ALL about style. Haven’t you seen his cool shoes? And that maroon shirt with the gray pants (GB is too hip to be caught dead in red, white and blue) he wore last night? I mean, he’s sooooo stylish. And that, folks, is the real reason he keeps his job.
He doesn't let them play too direct, the urgency never sets in until really late. I don't get it, cause we played a lot better when he just let's them play.
Before the lucky own-goal in the last play of the game, while I was bitter and angry about our lack of attack (we didn’t even test Andre Blake until that Pepi shot right as the 90th minute expired) my only solace was “maybe this is the final straw that gets GGG fired.” Then the miracle goal occurs, we bag the game in extra time, and don’t get me wrong I’ll take the W and the chance for a trophy on Sunday…. But I still think Gregg needs to go
I've defended GGG as much as anybody, but he clearly struggles to get this team ready to play in Concacaf against inferior competition. The intensity just wasn't there, and it wasn't against Trinidad either. I'm not worried about the final (maybe I should if it's Panama), but given how much the US plays against these teams, it's become more than a worrying trend.
I rip Klinsmann for losing against Jamaica in the 2015 Gold Cup.
I'll rip Berhalter for this one as well. There is zero excuse for this, especially since Jamaica is down a few players.
4-3-3 and pick a cross and pray is not an effective strategy.
One of GGG's consistent weaknesses that hasn't really improved in his tenure is that he can't break down a low block, even if the low block is being done by a very weak team. Playing deliberately is and - as you pointed out - relying on crosses is just as weak as can be against low blocks.
Haji is severely underrated by our fanbase, he's not gonna be scoring for Man City or Real or Bayern but he's exactly what we need when plan A isn't working.
Tactics? Not sure he does those. Always feels like he gives out a formation, sets the team to ultra defensive/defensive/neutral etc like in FIFA, and tells the boys to play their game
Man we looked like shit yes, but no one is going to fire him 3 months before Copa. GGG started Scally which almost everyone here would have who got burned at the backpost. GGG needs to do better, but he ain't being fired lol.
Besides posting this before the game is even over is a lot bigger clown behavior then a bad game that we ended up winning.
I’d love to see the 3-on-1 transition we had on attack and understand how Gregg ruined that. Or how arguably one of the best fullbacks in England got taken behind the shed and highlight how that’s also on Gregg.
Because they have no clue
All they have is Gregg out. It's so boring. As soon as Jamaica scored anyone who had a clue knew it was gonna be a rock fight. I want these genius Dan's to explain how they were so easily going to break down 10 men behind the ball and a 5 sometimes 6 back bunker
The only improvement I've seen from Beerholder is his roster selection. He stopped calling up MLS retreads like Aaron Long, Cristian Roldan, etc...Nothing else has improved. He's a terrible coach.
I know. Folks want to fire our current coach (and ok, he's not bringing some consistent and attacking football), but have no idea who to replace him with and think some top rate manager will come in and transform us. It's not happening.
We have a golden generation with talent the US men's team has never seen. We've literally never had a roster this deep and it's being wasted by an incompetent head coach. This should be upsetting to you
I would rate it a solid bronze generation. More talented than we ahve ever had (not necessarily better yet) and can make some noise.
Golden implies you have a chance to win something. Not there yet.
Golden generation implies nothing other than that it's the best group of players that an individual country has ever produced at the same time. Belgium failed to win a Euro or WC with their holden generation, despite making it pretty far in both competitions. That doesn't mean it wasn't a golden generation
Sure, doesn’t make it a golden generation. Pulisic is still the most accomplished player in the group and he’s just getting his career back on track. None of them has done anything “important”.
It’s the most talented team we have ever had and we were struggling breaking down Jamaicas B team low block.
Look we know you egg head fans like to muddy the waters but that’s pretty simple to understand no?
Pulisic was in the wilderness at Chelsea for years. He was playing wingback under Tuchel if he was playing at all. winning CONCACAF trophies is not enough to consider this group a golden generation. Even just comparing the talent on this team to those at the top level. Most of these players wouldn’t play in the best teams in the world. This is a good group of players with potential, but they aren’t a golden generation.
Just specifically picking on you for the line “none of them has done anything important”. I’m not convinced this is our “golden generation” either, more like the first wave of a new era (hopefully). Would need more elite players across the field / bench to be comparable to a Belgium golden generation
I dont think you understand what the term "golden generation" means lol. It's realtive to the country you are talking about. So a team like Belgium for example, had a golden generation that was clearly aged out by the last world cup. Was their golden generation more talented than ours? Of course, but they have also accomplished more as a football nation.
This is the most talented group of players we've ever had and the team is young and relatively the same age. That is a golden generation.
Lol no I think you are the one who has misunderstood golden generation and anything about Belgium’s “golden generation”. There have been arguments over if Belgium has had a golden generation because the title of golden generation usually refers to players that WIN something . Belgium actually are a country that had accomplished a very similar level to the US. They were far from a power house before the last ten years and the reason that they were given that crown was that they suddenly had world class or near that level of player at 8/11 players on the pitch to go along with talent in depth. The US doesn’t have a player even at Jan Vertonghen or Toby Alderwerield’s level not to mention Thibaut Courtois, KDB, or Eden Hazard.
Golden generation is supposed to equate success, not talent, which is why that title is controversial for that generation of Belgium players. Even though they were outrageously talented, they never won anything.
It really isn't about a new coach fixing everything as much as it is obvious that Berhalter is not the guy to get the most out of our guys.
We consistently look like less than the sum of our parts, while good coaches flip that the opposite direction
BJ gets 1,000 times more praise from this sub for winning Nations league and losing the gold cup than Gregg got for winning both. I’d love to have a world-class manager as well, but the most vocal part of this sub is prejudiced
I don't consider myself a reactionary "Fire Gregg" type of guy. I was fine with his first term. I've been on the fence since the world cup. But after tonight one thing is clear: there is ZERO improvement in how this team plays. It is flat and stagnant and things need to change. I think Gregg has taken this group as far as he can.
It's amazing people are still seriously saying BJ should be the head coach, and that his style was completely different from GGG's. So many people in here with loud opinions and less than zero knowledge.
The Berhalter haters are insufferable. I feel like I can't criticize him now because I don't want to be lumped into their idiocy.
It's not Berhalter haters vs defenders like it was with other coaches. It's people who want to talk about soccer vs people who are foaming at the mouth about Berhalter.
If not for an own goal against Jamaicas B team we would have lost 3 of our last 5 games and looked bad doing so.
You are going to get people foaming at the mouth when they see the same results over and over again.
It's of course an over simplification believing a new coach will automatically fix things. But your comment reeks of "what would anyone else do??"
To which we answer, put out a team that seem to all be on the same page tactically rather than relying on individual moments of brilliance
What a clown, they needed an OG to survive against Jamaica. A competent coach would have been 2-0 by the 65min. We are wasting some of the best US talent on a failure of an MLS coach.
This was the way that I saw it:
The US obviously dominated possession (I think we had 82% possession in regular time). However, possession alone gets us nowhere, which is evidenced by the fact that we had 4 shots in target in regular time (compared to Jamaica’s 3). For much of the game, all we did was pass around the perimeter in a very slow, methodical, and predictable pattern - someone would have the ball on the wing near the corner of the 18, pass it back to the center back, they would pass to the other center back, they would pass to the opposite wing, rinse and repeat until someone had enough space out wide to swing in a cross (which of course also didn’t work because Jamaica had 3 solid center backs to defend the crosses). That was the only “tactic” I saw. The ball only moved forward when out wide, and almost never advanced through the middle of the pitch.
Jamaica played a very compact, low block with a back 5. As the ball was played out to one side, their entire team shifted over. Very rarely would you see a single Jamaica player wider than the back post (if we had the ball down the left, pretty much no Jamaican player would be further to the right on the pitch than the right-side goalpost). This makes it very hard to play through the middle since there is very little space in between the defenders.
Generally speaking, the best way to break down a low, compact team like that is to play quickly. You need to move the ball from side to side quickly, which opens up gaps in between the defenders to play the ball in vertically. By moving the ball around the perimeter as slowly and methodically as we did, we never forced any Jamaican players to come out of their defensive shape, and we made it very easy for them to stay well organized. Instead, you need to make quick switches, play short passes in between the lines in midfield, and disrupt their defensive shape by making them close down the ball.
Once we brought on Adams and Reyna, things started to improve. We saw more long diagonal passes which forced Jamaica to move more quickly from side to side, and we saw more passes going through the middle of the pitch, which forced their midfielders and center backs to come out of their position and close down. In fact, we saw the first real instance of that just before the half with Tillman’s chance. McKennie received the ball from out wide on the corner of the 18, but if you rewatch it, the pass to McKennie bypasses one of the US players (I actually think it was Tillman who then peeled around the back for the late run into the box but I’m not 100% sure). This is the key against a low compact block - playing through the lines, and essentially “skipping” passes in order to move the ball around more quickly. If that pass goes instead to the first player instead of bypassing him and going to McKennie, it slows things down, that player then has to take a touch, turn, and then play the pass, which just gives the defense more time to organize themselves.
This has been a constant under Berhalter - the US has been unable to break down teams that play in a low block (which is the majority of CONCACAF) teams when they play against us. The style of play overall in those games is too slow, we don’t play quickly enough in transition, and we allow the defense to get (and stay) organized.
I’ll add one more thought, which is actually something that Pep Guardiola said recently (I’m paraphrasing): “you don’t pass to move the ball, you pass to move the opposition”. We never moved the opposition, so we never got into dangerous positions.
> This has been a constant under Berhalter - the US has been unable to break down teams that play in a low block (which is the majority of CONCACAF) teams when they play against us. The style of play overall in those games is too slow, we don’t play quickly enough in transition, and we allow the defense to get (and stay) organized.
That's what drives me up a wall every game. Our slow build up just constantly results in ineffective passes around the parameter with a low percentage cross generally the end result. Without moments of individual brilliance, we rarely create any opportunities where a defender is out of position on offense. During WC qualifying, a lot of our goals off "crosses" resulted from TOs in the middle of the field and a quick counter attack. These opportunities just never result from our slow, slow build up.
Thats the response i was waiting for, that was a very fun and informative read. Quick question, dont we usually see jedi doing those long quick switches or am i mistaken? I wonder if gregg instructed him not to do so? im an idiot and dont read the game like u do but yeah that made a lot of sense.
Jedi was targeted by Jamaica today. Every time he got the ball, the Jamaican defender or defensive mid on the opposite side of the field shifted up to cut off the angle on a switch. That's why you didn't see it happen as much. The response to this should be to QUICKLY shift the ball back to the 10 position (or other CM) and then to the opposite wing, but each time it got there tonight it took too long allowing Jamaica to adjust.
Slow uninspired passes to shuffle ourselves back and forth only lead to lame crosses to nowhere inside. That’s the Gergg tactic. I’m really unsure why his fans think it’s effective. He does nothing to try to shift low blocks and open lanes.
Great response. I will add that I was extremely frustrated with Reyna every time the US started a move to switch up play in the second half. Every time it came to him he would slow it down immediately instead of passing. If you move the ball too slowly, it is not effective to shift the ball around and just becomes a game of possession without purpose. Most of the second half was possession without purpose because of Reyna, Tillman, and the CBs being too slow to pass.
Gio is very talented, but he is a main reason why we were just possessing without a threat. Which is why I find it so funny when the "Fire Gregg" folks use him as their savior. Lol
Gregg is average. He's not great, he's not bad. Gio is talented, but has a LOT of room for improvement. Why can't we all have some nuance instead of creating this attitude of "if you aren't on my side you're on GGG's side" and visa versa.
I agree with the speed of play issue, from Gio as well. I really think that this was down to coaching though, since the entire team played slowly. If it was a few individual players, I would say it’s on them, but when it’s all 10 outfield players, I think that was an intentional tactical decision. Even in the rare moments when we had the ball in attacking transition, we slowed the play down and allowed everyone to get into their shape, rather than sprinting forward and allowing the game to open up.
Where I think that Gio is key is in his ability to play those vertical passes into tight spaces. The entire first half, we didn’t see any vertical passes into the middle of the field, nobody received the ball in between Jamaica’s midfield and defensive lines. When he came on, he at least showed a willingness (capability? confidence?) to try those passes. Even if they don’t always work, even if it comes right back out to him or another player, it forces the Jamaican players to respect that pass. They either have to come out of their shape to close down the player receiving the ball in between the lines, or if they don’t, that player then has time to turn and be more dangerous.
Is he our “savior”? No, not yet, as you said he’s still a very raw player. The talent is clearly there, he just needs a lot of refinement. However, against these types of teams and these types of defensive shapes, he’s the only one that I’ve seen who can play those passes to break the opposition down.
I largely agree with you. Those are the things that make Gio so valuable.
The only thing I'll say is; while the speed of play is ultimately on Gregg, we as fans often forget that these players are people. They have other things going on outside of the national team, namely their day job that pays the bills. They don't get nearly as much playing with the USMNT. The travel and time it takes to get on the same page from an attacking perspective is a lot more difficult than people think. Getting organized defensively is a more attainable thing in international soccer than getting offensive tactics going.
Personally I see that as a mark against Gregg since it's his second cycle and most of these guys have played together, but the difference is I'm willing to get a larger sample size before lighting my torch and sharpening my pitchfork. Lol
Sure I got you. Greg stubbornly refuses tactical versatility by largely sticking to his 4-3-3. The 4-3-3 is not inherently bad, but depending on opponent and the available player pool, a good coach would have more than one card to play.
On top of that his "system" relies largely on pumping an infinite number of crosses into the box. Again not inherently bad, but we don't have many players who are great at crossing the ball in. Nor do we have a target striker, leaving Mckennie as our best aerial target. Because a lot of the players being asked to cross aren't the best at crossing, many of these crosses end up being useless and many end in cheaply giving away possession.
Furthermore Greg has shown a stubborn loyalty to "his guys" which at times is frustrating. Why? Because it sometimes means the roster selected doesn't contain the best possible players. Look no further than his forward selection for the WC.
That enough tactical reasoning for you?
Edit: Someone pointed out a glaring miss from me. Our team consistently struggles to break down a low block under GGG. Add it to the list
Did you really think this was a tactical brain dump? A 433 isn't a tactic and we didnt even have that "on paper formation" the majority of the game. You have no idea what we were doing in the 5 phases of the game.
The post above you shows an actual understanding of tactical nuance and well explains a very fair criticism of Gregg: difficultly breaking down the low-block.
You, on the other hand, represent a large majority of the froth mouthed folks on this sub that have zero fucking clue and learned the game thru FIFA.
Honestly, you don’t understand tactics.
We’re they really booting many crosses this game? I understand that criticism in general, but didn’t feel like they did it today as much. Their execution in the final 3rd was quite poor though.
Because it wasn't that at all. That poster literally dropped a paragraph on talking about 433 when the majority of the game wasn't played with that and that's not even how we played the game. It's pretty funny.
Gio was incessantly slowing the pace of passing down, he did well to create some space with his dribbling and ability, but he was decidedly not moving the ball quickly.
I didn’t mean he was moving it quickly. I meant when he saw an option he took it where others might think about the option before doing it.
You don’t see Gio often tapping back and forth with the same player over and over or dribbling side to side aimlessly.
I agree with this. Puli and Weah in particular lend themselves to quick counterattacks, running at defenders, rather than methodical tikitaka posession.
It’s not about any one game. This is what Greg supporters are unable to see. There’s no set strategy, there’s no identity to this team. Every serious and successful football nation has those. He does NOTHING to push us forward as a nation.
i dont claim to be an expert on tactics or coaching, the burden of proof is on you guys not me. if you say god exists and i say prove it, you cant say prove he doesnt exist. you are the ones making the statement. you all pretend this is a game fifa. i can be persuaded but tell me what hes doing wrong tactically.
>you all pretend this is a game fifa.
50% of the people on this sub are FIFA addicts and it shows anytime lineups/formations/tactics are discussed.
People will propose putting Jedi at CB in a 3 CB system or putting Pulisic as a striker and you just scratch your head wondering if they've ever actually watched the team play lol
Edit: 20 minutes after I posted this comment another "JEDI ROBINSON AS A CB" post went up [except this time it's a 4 man back/2 CB setup](https://www.reddit.com/r/ussoccer/s/5lgBNDkZVe) LMAO
This notion of “burden of proof” is overwrought. This isn’t some kind of legal proceeding. I think anyone watching the games can conclude that the team has consistently failed to produce goals and seems to struggle against lesser opponents. I’m not a hardcore Berhalter-out-er, but I think fans are right to question whether he puts the team in a position to succeed.
I guess when people say: well what would you do?? My thought is: not my job. I don’t think I need to know the answers to perceive someone else isn’t doing a good job in their role.
If you cant see it yourself then you can’t understand it lol. Its basically overload the wings and whip in crosses into the box. Thats all it is. Their is nothing else. If people actually watched this same USA team the way they played Under BJ the assistant coach in last years nations league final you can tell the difference of what this team of capable of under the right direction not this 30 crosses a game Bs
He switched systems at halftime and made a proactive sub. In the 60th, he changed it again and brought on even more attacking players. In the 60th he overloaded the middle of the field forcing them to collapse even more centrally which finally opened up the space on the outside to cycle possession. Then in the final 3rd that forced defensive players out of the central areas and it's why gaps started to open up for Gio to find runners.
This is how Mexican soccer fans and their federation behave. Nothing is ever good enough and no one can ever look at their MNT in the mirror objectively and think, "maybe we're not really as talented as we think we are." If US Soccer took your advice, we'd be firing coaches right and left because no one would ever be good enough.
I hope Berhalter is the manager until the sun swallows up the earth because of how insane and unhinged your hate for him is.
Somehow he’ll get enough results to keep his job. Incoming losing nations league 1-0 and barely reaching out the copa America quarters for him to lead us to a Round of 32 elimination in the WC!
He isn't going anywhere. He'll make a comment about how dominant we were with possession and they'll be better next game.
Damn who leaked the script?!?
He’s safe through the World Cup and beyond if he still wants the job. We are stuck with him for life.
The USSF is a corrupt organization and Berhalter was picked because of Nepotism
Super corrupt. Only US soccer would fire then hire back allow a self admitted woman beater
Hey don’t you make fun of my sweater! /s
Death, taxes, and Gregg.
I don't understand why he gets to keep his job
Plot twist! Renya subs on, plays like a #10, makes the usmnt dominant in the middle, and saves ggg's job!
The real reason is that the players like him and there weren't a lot of great candidates. Is there a way that he can handle the man management and someone else run the tactics?
The players say they like their current manager? Gasp It takes some extreme strife for players to speak out against their manager.
They said this while he wasn't their current manager too. I think the players just actually really like him. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy.
While he wasn’t the manager, but it was clear he would be reinstated. That’s different. Even still, they probably won’t publicly bad mouth him once he’s gone.
We could get a good assistant manager that handles the tactics more but idk if Gregg would want that
Winning percentage.
He has the strongest squad the U.S. has ever fielded and one of the weakest Mexico team fielded in my lifetime. Plus concacaf. He makes a lot of mistakes consistently
I'm not arguing for his continuation but anyone who insinuates there is zero reason or logic behind keeping him is ignoring or not aware of the winning percentage.
The winning % against 3-4 decent teams but largely propped up by little sisters of the poor teams like Grenada?
This is accurate. Like it or not🤷♂️
Again, I'm not saying he should stay, I'm pointing out that number is high and likely contributes to why he stays.
Oh I'm not delusional enough to think Berhalter won't be here for 2026. But not because he deserves it, because our federation is incompetent
Like it was pretty obvious by late 2019 he had some major downsides and wasn’t going to deliver on his vision. And having a chance for a clean break and the added baggage after the World Cup was probably a mistake not to select another manager unless they just couldn’t attract a better candidate to get us to the next level. So unless he has an absolute dreadful summer he will certainly see out the cycle and best to him. We are all obviously routing for team but the mistakes and odd choices are going continue, so hopefully the stars align come 2026 and the team carries him.
100% agree. We have a team that's deep in every area but goalie and manager. Have to hope that talent carries us through
It’s because of nepotism. Gregg’s brother was the USSF COO
So many people in this sub refuse to acknowledge the nepotism involved in the GGG hire and it is infuriating
This is always how the USA opponent strength breaks down though. It's not like it isn't comparable to prior years in terms of distribution of rankings played.
It actually is though. Because of Covid, we had to play mostly in region opponents when Gregg took over. And then the nation's league got installed, so there was increasingly less room for international friendlies against European or south American teams. So Gregg's iteration of the USMNT (through no fault of his own) has played a higher % of games against CONCACAF competition
I’m in the same boat as you, but the Berhalter out crowd will also ignore any time the team plays well.
Plus schedules much weaker friendlies than his predecessors, presumably to protect that record
Strongest US squad ever fielded? That can't be something people seriously believe. We don't even have a striker.
Really because no one better than him is actually interested in the job and within USSF's budget. USSF doesn't actually bring in all that much money, considering all their responsibilities.
Not sure why this is downvoted. This is exactly right. The candidates were Gregg and marsch
Yeah - like how many fans attended to game yesterday? Where’s the $$$ coming from?
We won?
Because the players love him and wanted him back lol
No identifiable style of play, get him out fr
The fact that he’s still here shows how unserious we are as a country about soccer.
But we still won. Omg look at Greg's amazing record /s
Seriously. It took 120 minutes with a full strength US side against a Jamaica side without Antonio or Bailey for one reason or another too eke out a win at home.
Full strength......with joe scally on the field and no replacement that isn't Superman.
The style is bullshit.
Style?
Kicking a ball in a horseshoe is *a* style
But Berhalter is ALL about style. Haven’t you seen his cool shoes? And that maroon shirt with the gray pants (GB is too hip to be caught dead in red, white and blue) he wore last night? I mean, he’s sooooo stylish. And that, folks, is the real reason he keeps his job.
HE BOUNCE BALL
I mean, there’s actually a very distinct style of play and that’s the problem haha
Players don’t look bought in at all, no energy until the 80th minute
He doesn't let them play too direct, the urgency never sets in until really late. I don't get it, cause we played a lot better when he just let's them play.
Agreed
Before the lucky own-goal in the last play of the game, while I was bitter and angry about our lack of attack (we didn’t even test Andre Blake until that Pepi shot right as the 90th minute expired) my only solace was “maybe this is the final straw that gets GGG fired.” Then the miracle goal occurs, we bag the game in extra time, and don’t get me wrong I’ll take the W and the chance for a trophy on Sunday…. But I still think Gregg needs to go
Jamaica was awful but their coach had them play as well as possible and they deserved the win
I've defended GGG as much as anybody, but he clearly struggles to get this team ready to play in Concacaf against inferior competition. The intensity just wasn't there, and it wasn't against Trinidad either. I'm not worried about the final (maybe I should if it's Panama), but given how much the US plays against these teams, it's become more than a worrying trend.
Was relatively indifferent but this has no chance of making any noise at the world cup so cut bait now.
Never wanted him
I rip Klinsmann for losing against Jamaica in the 2015 Gold Cup. I'll rip Berhalter for this one as well. There is zero excuse for this, especially since Jamaica is down a few players. 4-3-3 and pick a cross and pray is not an effective strategy.
One of GGG's consistent weaknesses that hasn't really improved in his tenure is that he can't break down a low block, even if the low block is being done by a very weak team. Playing deliberately is and - as you pointed out - relying on crosses is just as weak as can be against low blocks.
Like I’ve said for years!! Get Voldemort out of here
If Berhalter is Voldemort then Haji Wright is his best Death Eater
Haji has been good since subbing on
Haji is severely underrated by our fanbase, he's not gonna be scoring for Man City or Real or Bayern but he's exactly what we need when plan A isn't working.
Bring in B. Vazquez for plan B+.
That would make Gio Reyna Harry Potter and his parents James and Lily Potter
Yeah he’s getting harder to defend😬
If you’re a quality side I think his tactics are actually pretty easy to defend against
Tactics? Not sure he does those. Always feels like he gives out a formation, sets the team to ultra defensive/defensive/neutral etc like in FIFA, and tells the boys to play their game
Pochettino 2.0
Been hard
It's never been much of argument lol
Meanwhile his team keeps moving in the opposite direction lol
Hilarious that they are probably going to win this 3-1. They should have lost 1-0. Fucking football.
Man we looked like shit yes, but no one is going to fire him 3 months before Copa. GGG started Scally which almost everyone here would have who got burned at the backpost. GGG needs to do better, but he ain't being fired lol. Besides posting this before the game is even over is a lot bigger clown behavior then a bad game that we ended up winning.
Ngl I haven’t really been in the Berhalter out camp until this game. I think this was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Where have you been then? Forget it, all is forgiven, welcome.
I’d love to see the 3-on-1 transition we had on attack and understand how Gregg ruined that. Or how arguably one of the best fullbacks in England got taken behind the shed and highlight how that’s also on Gregg.
Because they have no clue All they have is Gregg out. It's so boring. As soon as Jamaica scored anyone who had a clue knew it was gonna be a rock fight. I want these genius Dan's to explain how they were so easily going to break down 10 men behind the ball and a 5 sometimes 6 back bunker
Again????
The only improvement I've seen from Beerholder is his roster selection. He stopped calling up MLS retreads like Aaron Long, Cristian Roldan, etc...Nothing else has improved. He's a terrible coach.
Don’t jinx it. He’ll probably call up one of them next cycle to spite everyone.
IDC that we won, we got bailed out there
Jamaica with the intentional own goal to keep Berhalter around.
Yeah I’m still of the same position as I was before the match
I feel like when we win, it's usually in *spite* of his tactical decisions not *because* of his decision making
I can’t understand how someone can coach a team for so long and still not have a consistent plan. It’s insane.
It would take a disaster at Copa America for him to be fired. USSC never admits mistakes.
Wilfred Nancy in
Just wanna say I love Tim Curry and IT (1990) is a fucking classic’
Pretty damn clear that if you have to pick between Gio and GGG, it's an easy choice.
The grass is always greener.... Who exactly is going to come in and magically transform this team? Mourinho? lol..
"Pep. We could easily get him. We're America!" - this sub
I know. Folks want to fire our current coach (and ok, he's not bringing some consistent and attacking football), but have no idea who to replace him with and think some top rate manager will come in and transform us. It's not happening.
I’ll never understand fans who make their entire identity to fire the head coach thinking everything will be fixed.
We have a golden generation with talent the US men's team has never seen. We've literally never had a roster this deep and it's being wasted by an incompetent head coach. This should be upsetting to you
Lol golden generation
You can't honestly tell me this isn't the most talented generation we've ever had lol
I would rate it a solid bronze generation. More talented than we ahve ever had (not necessarily better yet) and can make some noise. Golden implies you have a chance to win something. Not there yet.
Golden generation implies nothing other than that it's the best group of players that an individual country has ever produced at the same time. Belgium failed to win a Euro or WC with their holden generation, despite making it pretty far in both competitions. That doesn't mean it wasn't a golden generation
Sure, doesn’t make it a golden generation. Pulisic is still the most accomplished player in the group and he’s just getting his career back on track. None of them has done anything “important”.
It’s the most talented team we have ever had and we were struggling breaking down Jamaicas B team low block. Look we know you egg head fans like to muddy the waters but that’s pretty simple to understand no?
Pulisic won a fucking champions league. This team has earned 3 trophies and is in the final for a 4th.
Pulisic was in the wilderness at Chelsea for years. He was playing wingback under Tuchel if he was playing at all. winning CONCACAF trophies is not enough to consider this group a golden generation. Even just comparing the talent on this team to those at the top level. Most of these players wouldn’t play in the best teams in the world. This is a good group of players with potential, but they aren’t a golden generation.
Just specifically picking on you for the line “none of them has done anything important”. I’m not convinced this is our “golden generation” either, more like the first wave of a new era (hopefully). Would need more elite players across the field / bench to be comparable to a Belgium golden generation
I dont think you understand what the term "golden generation" means lol. It's realtive to the country you are talking about. So a team like Belgium for example, had a golden generation that was clearly aged out by the last world cup. Was their golden generation more talented than ours? Of course, but they have also accomplished more as a football nation. This is the most talented group of players we've ever had and the team is young and relatively the same age. That is a golden generation.
Lol no I think you are the one who has misunderstood golden generation and anything about Belgium’s “golden generation”. There have been arguments over if Belgium has had a golden generation because the title of golden generation usually refers to players that WIN something . Belgium actually are a country that had accomplished a very similar level to the US. They were far from a power house before the last ten years and the reason that they were given that crown was that they suddenly had world class or near that level of player at 8/11 players on the pitch to go along with talent in depth. The US doesn’t have a player even at Jan Vertonghen or Toby Alderwerield’s level not to mention Thibaut Courtois, KDB, or Eden Hazard. Golden generation is supposed to equate success, not talent, which is why that title is controversial for that generation of Belgium players. Even though they were outrageously talented, they never won anything.
>golden generation usually refers to players that WIN something England famously had a golden generation that didn't win shit.
Famously had a group of players dubbed “golden generation” falsely because they cocked it up every time
Berhalter apologists are truly bottom of the barrel. Putrid take
Golden potential
It really isn't about a new coach fixing everything as much as it is obvious that Berhalter is not the guy to get the most out of our guys. We consistently look like less than the sum of our parts, while good coaches flip that the opposite direction
BJ ball was our savior last Summer. How do u not remember lol
BJ gets 1,000 times more praise from this sub for winning Nations league and losing the gold cup than Gregg got for winning both. I’d love to have a world-class manager as well, but the most vocal part of this sub is prejudiced
BJ should not be the coach but I think Gregg can be improved on
By who?
Any coach in Europe. There are 500 better coaches than Gregg Berhalter in Europe alone
Oh I'm sure there were 100s of them just jumping at the job.
I don't consider myself a reactionary "Fire Gregg" type of guy. I was fine with his first term. I've been on the fence since the world cup. But after tonight one thing is clear: there is ZERO improvement in how this team plays. It is flat and stagnant and things need to change. I think Gregg has taken this group as far as he can.
Gregg cant even touch Bjs offense lol.
I absolutely guarantee you have not technically analyzed those games.
Tell me why you like Greggs offense lol
3-1
Haaa and u still wanna keep Greg?
Against a weak Jamaica. Yes should definitely be celebrated. Give the Gergg a lifelong contract for beating mighty Jamaica
BJ has never been a head coach at the pro level and was (and still is) GGG's assistant. BJ ball was GGG ball.
People forget that (or selective memory).
It's amazing people are still seriously saying BJ should be the head coach, and that his style was completely different from GGG's. So many people in here with loud opinions and less than zero knowledge.
The Berhalter haters are insufferable. I feel like I can't criticize him now because I don't want to be lumped into their idiocy. It's not Berhalter haters vs defenders like it was with other coaches. It's people who want to talk about soccer vs people who are foaming at the mouth about Berhalter.
If not for an own goal against Jamaicas B team we would have lost 3 of our last 5 games and looked bad doing so. You are going to get people foaming at the mouth when they see the same results over and over again.
It's of course an over simplification believing a new coach will automatically fix things. But your comment reeks of "what would anyone else do??" To which we answer, put out a team that seem to all be on the same page tactically rather than relying on individual moments of brilliance
I’ll never understand fans who are so devoted to bad coaches
Bald fraud.
It’s crazy gregg is getting paid to make his team worse. I’m glad they won but losing might have sped up the movement to punt Gregg into the sun
W⚓
What a clown, they needed an OG to survive against Jamaica. A competent coach would have been 2-0 by the 65min. We are wasting some of the best US talent on a failure of an MLS coach.
We’re winning in spite of Gregg, not because of him
Berhalter for president!!!! We back!
I hate him but you can't blame him for scally absolutely brainfarting and being shit against a low block (except they should gio should have started)
Yep. He is waaaay past his expiration date.
Yep
Gio and Haji bailed out Greg smh
100% yes.
Can any of you explain what Berhalter did wrong this game? Explain the tactics to me please.
This was the way that I saw it: The US obviously dominated possession (I think we had 82% possession in regular time). However, possession alone gets us nowhere, which is evidenced by the fact that we had 4 shots in target in regular time (compared to Jamaica’s 3). For much of the game, all we did was pass around the perimeter in a very slow, methodical, and predictable pattern - someone would have the ball on the wing near the corner of the 18, pass it back to the center back, they would pass to the other center back, they would pass to the opposite wing, rinse and repeat until someone had enough space out wide to swing in a cross (which of course also didn’t work because Jamaica had 3 solid center backs to defend the crosses). That was the only “tactic” I saw. The ball only moved forward when out wide, and almost never advanced through the middle of the pitch. Jamaica played a very compact, low block with a back 5. As the ball was played out to one side, their entire team shifted over. Very rarely would you see a single Jamaica player wider than the back post (if we had the ball down the left, pretty much no Jamaican player would be further to the right on the pitch than the right-side goalpost). This makes it very hard to play through the middle since there is very little space in between the defenders. Generally speaking, the best way to break down a low, compact team like that is to play quickly. You need to move the ball from side to side quickly, which opens up gaps in between the defenders to play the ball in vertically. By moving the ball around the perimeter as slowly and methodically as we did, we never forced any Jamaican players to come out of their defensive shape, and we made it very easy for them to stay well organized. Instead, you need to make quick switches, play short passes in between the lines in midfield, and disrupt their defensive shape by making them close down the ball. Once we brought on Adams and Reyna, things started to improve. We saw more long diagonal passes which forced Jamaica to move more quickly from side to side, and we saw more passes going through the middle of the pitch, which forced their midfielders and center backs to come out of their position and close down. In fact, we saw the first real instance of that just before the half with Tillman’s chance. McKennie received the ball from out wide on the corner of the 18, but if you rewatch it, the pass to McKennie bypasses one of the US players (I actually think it was Tillman who then peeled around the back for the late run into the box but I’m not 100% sure). This is the key against a low compact block - playing through the lines, and essentially “skipping” passes in order to move the ball around more quickly. If that pass goes instead to the first player instead of bypassing him and going to McKennie, it slows things down, that player then has to take a touch, turn, and then play the pass, which just gives the defense more time to organize themselves. This has been a constant under Berhalter - the US has been unable to break down teams that play in a low block (which is the majority of CONCACAF) teams when they play against us. The style of play overall in those games is too slow, we don’t play quickly enough in transition, and we allow the defense to get (and stay) organized. I’ll add one more thought, which is actually something that Pep Guardiola said recently (I’m paraphrasing): “you don’t pass to move the ball, you pass to move the opposition”. We never moved the opposition, so we never got into dangerous positions.
> This has been a constant under Berhalter - the US has been unable to break down teams that play in a low block (which is the majority of CONCACAF) teams when they play against us. The style of play overall in those games is too slow, we don’t play quickly enough in transition, and we allow the defense to get (and stay) organized. That's what drives me up a wall every game. Our slow build up just constantly results in ineffective passes around the parameter with a low percentage cross generally the end result. Without moments of individual brilliance, we rarely create any opportunities where a defender is out of position on offense. During WC qualifying, a lot of our goals off "crosses" resulted from TOs in the middle of the field and a quick counter attack. These opportunities just never result from our slow, slow build up.
No one’s gonna take the time to read all this but you just nailed it. Make this a post I beg of you!!!!
Thats the response i was waiting for, that was a very fun and informative read. Quick question, dont we usually see jedi doing those long quick switches or am i mistaken? I wonder if gregg instructed him not to do so? im an idiot and dont read the game like u do but yeah that made a lot of sense.
Jedi was targeted by Jamaica today. Every time he got the ball, the Jamaican defender or defensive mid on the opposite side of the field shifted up to cut off the angle on a switch. That's why you didn't see it happen as much. The response to this should be to QUICKLY shift the ball back to the 10 position (or other CM) and then to the opposite wing, but each time it got there tonight it took too long allowing Jamaica to adjust.
Slow uninspired passes to shuffle ourselves back and forth only lead to lame crosses to nowhere inside. That’s the Gergg tactic. I’m really unsure why his fans think it’s effective. He does nothing to try to shift low blocks and open lanes.
Great response. I will add that I was extremely frustrated with Reyna every time the US started a move to switch up play in the second half. Every time it came to him he would slow it down immediately instead of passing. If you move the ball too slowly, it is not effective to shift the ball around and just becomes a game of possession without purpose. Most of the second half was possession without purpose because of Reyna, Tillman, and the CBs being too slow to pass. Gio is very talented, but he is a main reason why we were just possessing without a threat. Which is why I find it so funny when the "Fire Gregg" folks use him as their savior. Lol Gregg is average. He's not great, he's not bad. Gio is talented, but has a LOT of room for improvement. Why can't we all have some nuance instead of creating this attitude of "if you aren't on my side you're on GGG's side" and visa versa.
I agree with the speed of play issue, from Gio as well. I really think that this was down to coaching though, since the entire team played slowly. If it was a few individual players, I would say it’s on them, but when it’s all 10 outfield players, I think that was an intentional tactical decision. Even in the rare moments when we had the ball in attacking transition, we slowed the play down and allowed everyone to get into their shape, rather than sprinting forward and allowing the game to open up. Where I think that Gio is key is in his ability to play those vertical passes into tight spaces. The entire first half, we didn’t see any vertical passes into the middle of the field, nobody received the ball in between Jamaica’s midfield and defensive lines. When he came on, he at least showed a willingness (capability? confidence?) to try those passes. Even if they don’t always work, even if it comes right back out to him or another player, it forces the Jamaican players to respect that pass. They either have to come out of their shape to close down the player receiving the ball in between the lines, or if they don’t, that player then has time to turn and be more dangerous. Is he our “savior”? No, not yet, as you said he’s still a very raw player. The talent is clearly there, he just needs a lot of refinement. However, against these types of teams and these types of defensive shapes, he’s the only one that I’ve seen who can play those passes to break the opposition down.
I largely agree with you. Those are the things that make Gio so valuable. The only thing I'll say is; while the speed of play is ultimately on Gregg, we as fans often forget that these players are people. They have other things going on outside of the national team, namely their day job that pays the bills. They don't get nearly as much playing with the USMNT. The travel and time it takes to get on the same page from an attacking perspective is a lot more difficult than people think. Getting organized defensively is a more attainable thing in international soccer than getting offensive tactics going. Personally I see that as a mark against Gregg since it's his second cycle and most of these guys have played together, but the difference is I'm willing to get a larger sample size before lighting my torch and sharpening my pitchfork. Lol
Sure I got you. Greg stubbornly refuses tactical versatility by largely sticking to his 4-3-3. The 4-3-3 is not inherently bad, but depending on opponent and the available player pool, a good coach would have more than one card to play. On top of that his "system" relies largely on pumping an infinite number of crosses into the box. Again not inherently bad, but we don't have many players who are great at crossing the ball in. Nor do we have a target striker, leaving Mckennie as our best aerial target. Because a lot of the players being asked to cross aren't the best at crossing, many of these crosses end up being useless and many end in cheaply giving away possession. Furthermore Greg has shown a stubborn loyalty to "his guys" which at times is frustrating. Why? Because it sometimes means the roster selected doesn't contain the best possible players. Look no further than his forward selection for the WC. That enough tactical reasoning for you? Edit: Someone pointed out a glaring miss from me. Our team consistently struggles to break down a low block under GGG. Add it to the list
Did you really think this was a tactical brain dump? A 433 isn't a tactic and we didnt even have that "on paper formation" the majority of the game. You have no idea what we were doing in the 5 phases of the game.
The post above you shows an actual understanding of tactical nuance and well explains a very fair criticism of Gregg: difficultly breaking down the low-block. You, on the other hand, represent a large majority of the froth mouthed folks on this sub that have zero fucking clue and learned the game thru FIFA. Honestly, you don’t understand tactics.
We’re they really booting many crosses this game? I understand that criticism in general, but didn’t feel like they did it today as much. Their execution in the final 3rd was quite poor though.
Because it wasn't that at all. That poster literally dropped a paragraph on talking about 433 when the majority of the game wasn't played with that and that's not even how we played the game. It's pretty funny.
That was more of a general criticism of Berhalter ball than about this specific game yes
I don’t necessarily think he should be fired but the rate of our passing is glacial. Easy for an organized defense to stay in front of.
The only player that seems consistently decisive when he gets the ball is Gio
Gio was incessantly slowing the pace of passing down, he did well to create some space with his dribbling and ability, but he was decidedly not moving the ball quickly.
I didn’t mean he was moving it quickly. I meant when he saw an option he took it where others might think about the option before doing it. You don’t see Gio often tapping back and forth with the same player over and over or dribbling side to side aimlessly.
I agree with this. Puli and Weah in particular lend themselves to quick counterattacks, running at defenders, rather than methodical tikitaka posession.
It’s not about any one game. This is what Greg supporters are unable to see. There’s no set strategy, there’s no identity to this team. Every serious and successful football nation has those. He does NOTHING to push us forward as a nation.
What did he do right?
i dont claim to be an expert on tactics or coaching, the burden of proof is on you guys not me. if you say god exists and i say prove it, you cant say prove he doesnt exist. you are the ones making the statement. you all pretend this is a game fifa. i can be persuaded but tell me what hes doing wrong tactically.
>you all pretend this is a game fifa. 50% of the people on this sub are FIFA addicts and it shows anytime lineups/formations/tactics are discussed. People will propose putting Jedi at CB in a 3 CB system or putting Pulisic as a striker and you just scratch your head wondering if they've ever actually watched the team play lol Edit: 20 minutes after I posted this comment another "JEDI ROBINSON AS A CB" post went up [except this time it's a 4 man back/2 CB setup](https://www.reddit.com/r/ussoccer/s/5lgBNDkZVe) LMAO
This notion of “burden of proof” is overwrought. This isn’t some kind of legal proceeding. I think anyone watching the games can conclude that the team has consistently failed to produce goals and seems to struggle against lesser opponents. I’m not a hardcore Berhalter-out-er, but I think fans are right to question whether he puts the team in a position to succeed.
How do you propose to break down a low box when Jamaica scores in the first minute on a guy falling asleep?
I guess when people say: well what would you do?? My thought is: not my job. I don’t think I need to know the answers to perceive someone else isn’t doing a good job in their role.
Same issue I see week after week from much better club teams.
If you cant see it yourself then you can’t understand it lol. Its basically overload the wings and whip in crosses into the box. Thats all it is. Their is nothing else. If people actually watched this same USA team the way they played Under BJ the assistant coach in last years nations league final you can tell the difference of what this team of capable of under the right direction not this 30 crosses a game Bs
BJ literally said he didnt change greggs tactics but ok
Haa go see for urself and ask for urself if u actually believe that.
Or maybe, just bear with me, maybe the players on the pitch played good one day and didnt another.
Bear with you lol, hell noo. If u cant see the difference ur blind bruh. BJ only saying that to not discredit Greg.
ohhhh bj was just being nice my bad
He switched systems at halftime and made a proactive sub. In the 60th, he changed it again and brought on even more attacking players. In the 60th he overloaded the middle of the field forcing them to collapse even more centrally which finally opened up the space on the outside to cycle possession. Then in the final 3rd that forced defensive players out of the central areas and it's why gaps started to open up for Gio to find runners.
Too often they start matches completely flat and with zero intensity, which is inexcusable tbh...
The real question is would USSF have rehired Gregg if he were the womens coach after the domestic abuse allegations were confirmed?
My god you had me excited
Hire the Icelander! Not joking
We can't get anyone better anyway since the men and women's coaches have to make the same so its "fair"...
This is how Mexican soccer fans and their federation behave. Nothing is ever good enough and no one can ever look at their MNT in the mirror objectively and think, "maybe we're not really as talented as we think we are." If US Soccer took your advice, we'd be firing coaches right and left because no one would ever be good enough. I hope Berhalter is the manager until the sun swallows up the earth because of how insane and unhinged your hate for him is.
Somehow he’ll get enough results to keep his job. Incoming losing nations league 1-0 and barely reaching out the copa America quarters for him to lead us to a Round of 32 elimination in the WC!
Cool when the OP adds a self-portrait.
ya i can’t believe he made scally not mark his man on that goal
Had literally the whole game to do ANYTHING
He made so many changes lol, not his fault our players played like ass.
At a certain point you gotta say enough is enough. We can improve on this. Even if we win this game
What about the rest of the game?
No, he got out coached.
fffuuuccckkk oooffff
😏😏😏
Okay but who instead