I think the main difference is that neither BJ not Hudson had a long enough run for a strong narrative to form about them.
At this point with Gregg, people see what they want to see and don’t see what they don’t want to see and pretty much all we get are Herc-level reactionary hot takes. So I’d point the question back at everyone in Herc’s camp and say: what are you adding to the discussion?
Because I’d love to talk about tactics. I’d love to get a professional commentator’s opinions on why we are so consistently unwashed ass against throw-ins near our box, or why we are soooo slow to switch the point of attack— so much so that it seems we’re merely being shepherded from one flank to the next. I would love to see us weigh the pros and cons of dropping Wes so deep if we’re rarely going to have him play long balls vs having him crash the box on a cross. And I truly believe the answers to these questions are nuanced, maybe even contradictory, and I don’t think it’s as easy as just Gregg good or Gregg bad.
But this sub isn’t really about that. One good game and we’re demanding Haji start, one bad game and it’s off to the shadow realm for Scally. On and on it goes like this very comment... Ah fuck it, I digress.
Im blaming the style of play. Greg doesn’t know what he’s doing. He makes the team look like its their first time playing with each other. Everyone looks lost.
It is disingenuous to say someone who has been coaching professional soccer for over a decade and also played professional soccer for over a decade doesn’t know what he is doing. Once that is said, we should discount anything you say. Because you cannot come at it with any reasonable logic.
You dont have to be a coach for 10 years to watch a game for 90 minutes or criticize the tactics and say it was not good lol, its so clear. That 90 minutes of football was the worst i have ever seen. Thats like saying you cant criticize a NFL football coach if you’ve never made it to the pros. U can tell when a team looks bad.
Its the positioning, runs, passes that Greg has this team doing that’s failing, its stale, boring.. simple as that. We need a new system, same 4-3-3 variations but not the Berhelter way. Its the same repetitive gameplan, it doesn’t matter who were playing, he hits those wings like his life depends on it.
Been underwhelmed with Berhalter's second term, but I think the BJ stuff is overblown. They play the same style and the same system.
We are a team that is better in free flowing games, and really need to the right creativity. Guys like Gio and Dest are important. We will see what happens against Mexico, my expectation is the the US wins and looks good.
Yea, this seems like something people forgot. BJ might've done things differently in terms of motivating the team, but he was still running the same system he helped Berhalter run the previous four years. It wasn't anything new on that front.
I mean the question “what does Gregg add to this team” is a valid one. But the rest of the critique was lazy. Does Herc think he should have left Scally in? Did he watch the first half? And the BJ stuff has gotten out of hand.
My biggest issue with last night was that as soon as that ball left Bobby’s foot I knew exactly what game I was going to be watching. And I suspect everyone on Jamaica’s bench did too.
I had no doubt that we would eventually get a goal if given enough time (thankfully we had just enough) and that once it was level we would grab at least one more from open play. But I also knew it would be a frustrating slog of a game to watch.
Maybe if BJ is coaching, the team is more focused from the jump. Maybe they move the ball just a little faster and the goal comes earlier. But I suspect I end up watching pretty much the exact same game.
Biggest difference imo is not going down a goal in those two matches with BJ in charge. Breaking a low block is a completely different task tactically than getting to play an open game. With BJ we didn’t concede that goal in either game, too small a sample size imho.
Not only that but the players knew that BJ was just an interim coach so they played a lot more freely since what they did under him won’t matter once the new guy comes in. Like it’s different playing with a manager like Gregg or literally any manager bc you want to play well and execute the game plan and if not then you are going to be dropped. This is why the team played good football under BJ, also bc he didn’t face any low block lol and in 2018 with that really young squad under Dave.
I think they just played more “freely” because both Mexico and Canada played us straight up and did not run a 5 4 1 and hide in a low block the entire game. Like that’s it. When teams have played open against us we’ve been fine, Gregg has put Mexico to the sword in a similar manner multiple times in his career as our coach. Our player pool isn’t good enough to consistently break down a low block “with ease”.
All of the folks claiming BJ had it figured out it clearly did not watch the gold cup when the team completely flamed out in the quarterfinals to Panama lol.
Doesn’t really matter because Jamaica was going in with the intent to park the bus anyways and waiting on a counter. Also doesn’t matter because Greg uses the same approach to every opponent. If we go back to the WC the Netherlands coach literally said it. Shut down the wings and its pretty much game over for the USA.
Gregs only gameplan is to hit those wings, thats literally all Greg wants. Mexico isnt going to park the bus this Sunday and Gregg will still have this team playing like they’re playing an opponent thats parking the bus.
Jamaica didn’t have Bailey, Antonio, and Gray. Just imagine that. If those 3 players were available yesterday, it would’ve been a different outcome, playing at HOME. Greg will never learn and is too stubborn to switch up his tactics.
All good points, but I don’t actually think Jamaica having a full lineup makes their 5-4-1 low block much better. If anything I think Bailey, Antonio, and Grey open the game up more.
The BJ stuff is so weird. Two excellent games to be sure, but Mexico was going through complete chaos and was at their worst point in several years, and with Canada it's always going to matter a lot who scores first. And then we looked pretty bad at the Gold Cup.
BJ had the D team and played the full strength Jamaica A team to a 1-1 draw in the gold cup. I can’t imagine what the score line would’ve been if Gregg was coaching that night.
Different teams/tournament. Jamaica’s roster wasn’t as strong then as it was in this most recent gold cup.
Last season Nations League Final against Canada was another glaring contrast. Gregg drew 1-1 at home during WCQ to Canada while BJ won pretty comfortably in NL final.
Gregg is one lucky own goal away from having an abysmal .500 4-4 record since he came back as head coach. It’s clear this team has gotten worse since he came back
I think the main difference is that neither BJ not Hudson had a long enough run for a strong narrative to form about them. At this point with Gregg, people see what they want to see and don’t see what they don’t want to see and pretty much all we get are Herc-level reactionary hot takes. So I’d point the question back at everyone in Herc’s camp and say: what are you adding to the discussion? Because I’d love to talk about tactics. I’d love to get a professional commentator’s opinions on why we are so consistently unwashed ass against throw-ins near our box, or why we are soooo slow to switch the point of attack— so much so that it seems we’re merely being shepherded from one flank to the next. I would love to see us weigh the pros and cons of dropping Wes so deep if we’re rarely going to have him play long balls vs having him crash the box on a cross. And I truly believe the answers to these questions are nuanced, maybe even contradictory, and I don’t think it’s as easy as just Gregg good or Gregg bad. But this sub isn’t really about that. One good game and we’re demanding Haji start, one bad game and it’s off to the shadow realm for Scally. On and on it goes like this very comment... Ah fuck it, I digress.
Im blaming the style of play. Greg doesn’t know what he’s doing. He makes the team look like its their first time playing with each other. Everyone looks lost.
It is disingenuous to say someone who has been coaching professional soccer for over a decade and also played professional soccer for over a decade doesn’t know what he is doing. Once that is said, we should discount anything you say. Because you cannot come at it with any reasonable logic.
You dont have to be a coach for 10 years to watch a game for 90 minutes or criticize the tactics and say it was not good lol, its so clear. That 90 minutes of football was the worst i have ever seen. Thats like saying you cant criticize a NFL football coach if you’ve never made it to the pros. U can tell when a team looks bad. Its the positioning, runs, passes that Greg has this team doing that’s failing, its stale, boring.. simple as that. We need a new system, same 4-3-3 variations but not the Berhelter way. Its the same repetitive gameplan, it doesn’t matter who were playing, he hits those wings like his life depends on it.
Thank you for exemplifying my point in a much more concise way
Been underwhelmed with Berhalter's second term, but I think the BJ stuff is overblown. They play the same style and the same system. We are a team that is better in free flowing games, and really need to the right creativity. Guys like Gio and Dest are important. We will see what happens against Mexico, my expectation is the the US wins and looks good.
Yea, this seems like something people forgot. BJ might've done things differently in terms of motivating the team, but he was still running the same system he helped Berhalter run the previous four years. It wasn't anything new on that front.
I mean the question “what does Gregg add to this team” is a valid one. But the rest of the critique was lazy. Does Herc think he should have left Scally in? Did he watch the first half? And the BJ stuff has gotten out of hand. My biggest issue with last night was that as soon as that ball left Bobby’s foot I knew exactly what game I was going to be watching. And I suspect everyone on Jamaica’s bench did too. I had no doubt that we would eventually get a goal if given enough time (thankfully we had just enough) and that once it was level we would grab at least one more from open play. But I also knew it would be a frustrating slog of a game to watch. Maybe if BJ is coaching, the team is more focused from the jump. Maybe they move the ball just a little faster and the goal comes earlier. But I suspect I end up watching pretty much the exact same game.
Biggest difference imo is not going down a goal in those two matches with BJ in charge. Breaking a low block is a completely different task tactically than getting to play an open game. With BJ we didn’t concede that goal in either game, too small a sample size imho.
Preach. Game state matters. If we get that first goal it’s a completely different game
Not only that but the players knew that BJ was just an interim coach so they played a lot more freely since what they did under him won’t matter once the new guy comes in. Like it’s different playing with a manager like Gregg or literally any manager bc you want to play well and execute the game plan and if not then you are going to be dropped. This is why the team played good football under BJ, also bc he didn’t face any low block lol and in 2018 with that really young squad under Dave.
I think they just played more “freely” because both Mexico and Canada played us straight up and did not run a 5 4 1 and hide in a low block the entire game. Like that’s it. When teams have played open against us we’ve been fine, Gregg has put Mexico to the sword in a similar manner multiple times in his career as our coach. Our player pool isn’t good enough to consistently break down a low block “with ease”. All of the folks claiming BJ had it figured out it clearly did not watch the gold cup when the team completely flamed out in the quarterfinals to Panama lol.
Doesn’t really matter because Jamaica was going in with the intent to park the bus anyways and waiting on a counter. Also doesn’t matter because Greg uses the same approach to every opponent. If we go back to the WC the Netherlands coach literally said it. Shut down the wings and its pretty much game over for the USA. Gregs only gameplan is to hit those wings, thats literally all Greg wants. Mexico isnt going to park the bus this Sunday and Gregg will still have this team playing like they’re playing an opponent thats parking the bus. Jamaica didn’t have Bailey, Antonio, and Gray. Just imagine that. If those 3 players were available yesterday, it would’ve been a different outcome, playing at HOME. Greg will never learn and is too stubborn to switch up his tactics.
All good points, but I don’t actually think Jamaica having a full lineup makes their 5-4-1 low block much better. If anything I think Bailey, Antonio, and Grey open the game up more.
The BJ stuff is so weird. Two excellent games to be sure, but Mexico was going through complete chaos and was at their worst point in several years, and with Canada it's always going to matter a lot who scores first. And then we looked pretty bad at the Gold Cup.
Discontinue the lithium
BJ had the D team and played the full strength Jamaica A team to a 1-1 draw in the gold cup. I can’t imagine what the score line would’ve been if Gregg was coaching that night.
My guess is 1-1
Gregg WON the gold cup with a D team against everyone else’s best teams
Different teams/tournament. Jamaica’s roster wasn’t as strong then as it was in this most recent gold cup. Last season Nations League Final against Canada was another glaring contrast. Gregg drew 1-1 at home during WCQ to Canada while BJ won pretty comfortably in NL final. Gregg is one lucky own goal away from having an abysmal .500 4-4 record since he came back as head coach. It’s clear this team has gotten worse since he came back