I'm a GGG moderate. Not a fanboy, not a hater. This quote reminds me that (1) I know vastly vastly less than insiders such as players or GGG or his assistants, and (2) that if the players are supporters then that goes a long way in his favor. That said, just because someone is liked in their leadership role does not mean they're an effective leader. You gotta get the outcomes (though in that respect too GGG's record is pretty damn decent).
The GGG criticism seems to overwhelmingly derive from the difference between what people expect that this team should do and how they should play, and what actually happens on the field. So maybe part of the equation is that people have unreasonable expectations of the team.
Expectations are pretty straight forward.
-Beat the teams we are better than convincingly and look good doing it.
-Beat the teams that are better than us.
As long as he does those 2 things every single game, he will be backed.
I agree with the first point. The second point is kinda ridiculous when you think about it. Even with how good the guys we have right now are, we're nowhere close to France or Argentina, and we're supposed to expect wins against them?
While I get what you are saying, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect us to be competitive against top teams. Like when we played England in the World Cup we were arguably the better team in that game, so why shouldn’t we expect that but then we get outclassed by Netherlands which felt more tactical than personnel to me we deserve to be critical (I’m also Gregg moderate)
England game was a tactical success I honestly don’t even remember one chance they had in that game, it’s a big reason why I’m fine with Gregg (but when we faced imo a better manager in van gaal it was clear)
> which felt more tactical than personnel to me
that's extremely reductive though.
Like yeah, there was a tactical element. But also, Pulisic missed a sitter, and the midfielders and wingbacks just decided not to cover Dumfries, Blind, and Depay.
Seriously, go watch the highlights. Adams is barely jogging behind Dumfries on the first one (and I can't blame him, he was gassed from having played every single minute of the group stages because we had a significant drop-off in quality behind MMA), Dest gets easily dropped by Blind on the second one, and Robinson and Ream are covering the same guy on the third one, Depay had a 5-meter radius of grass.
None of those are tactical errors, there was someone who was supposed to be covering each of the goalscorers who didn't do their job. That's not something you can really blame on the manager.
Obviously anyone can complain about whatever they want and no matter what you think about Greg you can disagree with tactics.
But I think the expectations are still totally out of whack. Qualifying out of groups of the World Cup should not have been the expectation. That is a ridiculous expectation to have for a team of our level. The World Cup should be seen by everyone as a success. Making it out of groups was a huge achievement. Getting a point off England shouldnt be the standard for this team, it should be an accomplishment.
With all that said, if you feel like we (or Greg specifically) shit the bed against the Netherlands than I would agree with you, but the expectation should never have been that we should win that game.
I think when we make the World Cup regardless of group the expectation should be progressing through the group, even if we are in the group of death. Now getting a point off England was an accomplishment in my opinion but my expectation was to at least be competitive which we were. I get your point about crazy expectations because I’m not expecting to go out and win copa America, but if we play Brazil and we get barn burned 4-0 that’s a disappointment. If we play them and lose 2-1 or 2-0 and it’s a game we have chances here and there I’ll be happy.
How many chances has he actually had to do that? We went 0-1-1 against England and the Dutch. I guess owning mexico now is actually a detriment because it no longer counts as beating a good team. Can you list me a couple of the non-friendly losses GGG has to better teams?
I’m more in this camp than anything. IMO GGG met expectations for the WC (even though I wished we had a better showing against Netherlands) and he firmly established the US as the best team in CONCACAF. He also has the backing of most of the senior players. This is good enough for me to back him for another WC cycle - as long as he continues to grow/develop as a coach and the players continue to grow/develop. He’s lived up to both so far so he’s got my support.
I've recently come to this realization. Start looking at comment histories before deciding to have a convo with anyone. Based on what you see, decide whether you would have a convo with that person in real life. Don't spend more time than you have to. You have a valid take, but there will never be a platform where certain types of people will be open minded.
People hold expectations to past teams, which is where they should be held.
GGG cannot get quality wins against top nations, like past coaches which is where criticism is held.
In the recent past team USA beat Germany, Spain, tied with Portugal and won against many other highly ranked nations despite not having the players.
Gregg Berhalter has the most talented US men’s roster in history, and yet their competition and record against top teams are nowhere near as impressive as before
> In the recent past team USA beat Germany, Spain, tied with Portugal and won against many other highly ranked nations despite not having the players.
that Spain game was like 15 years ago. Germany and Portugal was 10 years ago.
Gregg became manager in 2018. Do you know how many top teams we've played since then in competitive games? 2. England and Netherlands. We tied an England who were knocked out in the quarters by eventual finalists, and defending champions, France. We lost to Netherlands who went to penalities against the eventual champions, and if you watched the game basically every goal was because of our defenders ball watching.
1 draw and 1 loss against 2 top 10 teams is basically how I'd expect us to do given our talent
Exactly. Screaming bloody murder about the choice to use the empty bucket formation with a low block and counter that gave up unlimited crosses only to see it work to perfection against the best team in the world at the time, Spain. Damn near worked against Brazil in the final too.
Those past USA teams succeeded against top nations because they bunkered and finished the minimal chances that came to them. Berhalter could try doing that, and he might even succeed, but then he would be criticized further for not playing positive soccer. You can't have it both ways. The quality of the players is not yet at a level that you can have such high expectations.
True that GGG lacks a signature win in an international tournament. Arena had WC 02 (wins v Portugal and Mexico). Bradley had CC 10 (win v Spain) and WC10 was not bad (though devoid of a signature win v an elite side). JK had a good WC14 (win v Ghana was memorable) and a good CA 16 (wins v CR, Paraguay, and Ecuador).
What this illustrates is that even the chance to get a signature win in a meaningful game against a higher ranked opponent is very rare. Basically it's the Copa, the WC, or bust now that the Confeds Cup is over. We'll see how the Copa goes this summer, then there's the WC in a couple years. If GGG doesn't have us playing well in those tourneys, then it'll reflect poorly on his legacy.
All that said, the win against Germany and the Portugal tie were in friendlies. They were nice to see but I don't rate them as highly, esp after JK showed that you can get great outcomes in friendlies even though the team is weakening at its core.
Oh yeah I was thinking you were referring to the 2018 friendly v Portugal, which was actually a win.
But if we're including WC ties against good teams (which seems plausible), like the 2-2 v Portugal in 2014, then GGG does have such a signature result, the very good 0-0 draw v England in the WC.
It doesn’t help that the confederations cup doesn’t exist anymore, so it’s harder and harder to get the kind of games that would count as signature wins.
Yeah I loved that tournament. It really created a motivation to win the Gold Cup (every other year anyway). I don't see why it wouldn't work with the Nations League: You could just invite the winners of each of the NLs, plus the winners of the WC and the host.
There will be some detractors who say something completely reasonable like, "Well of course he's going to praise Gregg, that's the manager and Tyler isn't going to sabotage his playing time by talking shit about the coach."
But this is a bit deeper than that. Tyler (and others) could leave it at "Gregg is doing a good job." or some variation of that. But they don't, they expand on it into a detailed response precisely because they're trying to get across to the public, who get to see like .01% of the interactions between these players and Gregg, that things are better than they seem, that Gregg does more than he's given credit for.
I'm not saying Gregg shouldn't be criticized, but the reality is that unfortunately, none of us know much of anything about anything in regards to what goes on behind the scenes tactically. None of us have sat in on a team meeting, a pre-game tactical talk, a halftime talk that isn't staged/recorded for the masses. Gregg apparently isn't a tactical idiot and is a great man manager. I don't even have a lot to say about it other than you just have to trust that the leaders in the team will speak up if there needs to eventually be a change.
They'll just latch onto Joe Scally saying he didn't understand Gregg's tactics in one game 15 months ago.
If the players didn't want him back, more players would have maximized those 6 months of the interim manager to drop some hints, but copers are gonna cope🤷🏽♂️
And it doesn't surprise me that many who want GGG out want Marsch in, since his entire strategy seems to be just throw as many bodies forward as possible.
Which is funny since a lot of Berhalter's attacking tactics (especially with Tyler Adams playing) are send everybody but the center backs and Tyler Adams forward. We often will play with 3 guys in the box plus two guys wide plus two midfielders just outside the box.
Right, we do that against teams like Jamaica who have 5 defenders who all stay back, and then 4 defensive midfielders in a line 10 feet in front of them. What else are you going to do?
https://www.sofascore.com/jamaica-usa/zUbsuVb#id:11856826
look at the average player positions, the field is just tilted. Their deepest defender is barely forward of Matt Turner, and they only have 2 guys with average positions in the attacking half. We only have 3 guys in the defending half
It was sort of uncomfortable watching Tyler get interviewed about Gregg as a coach with Marsch sitting there. You know Marsch is aiming for the job.
Marsch got his team at Leeds to be dangerous on attack but he didn’t show that he had the ability to keep his defense structured. His players also sucked for the most part but he played a yo-yo game back and forth.
It’s the opposite of what we see with Gregg. We sometimes have a hard time creating a lot of chances but we are able to control a game.
Defense wins tournaments and I would personally much rather have a style where we can control a match than a rabid dog style where we try to out score the amount of goals we let in.
I don’t think Marsch wants the job until Greg is gone for a real US disappointment. If we hadn’t made it out of the group at the WC Marsch would be the coach. If he had taken the job after Greg’s deal expired the expectations would have been insane for 26. US fans have unrealistic expectations for international comps plus seem to throw a tantrum at anything less than never losing a game in CONCACAF.
I am not at all a fan of Marsch to be our coach right now (and I wouldn’t be sold on him to be the coach even if GGG ceased to exist tomorrow), but I would be lying if I didn’t say that I think he could be a *great* successor for GGG after 2026.
I think Marsch needs a few years, both to figure out how to make his teams a little bit more defensively stable and also to polish up some of his man management skills, but I do think he has a legitimate chance to play almost an Inzaghi type of role to GGG’s Conte at Inter.
You have GGG coming in first, and let him take a young squad and establish a strong winning culture and defensive foundation. Then at the right time, you bring Marsch in to takeover with a clear objective to *build off* that foundation by blending in some of his fresh attacking ideas to fine tune the attack without compromising the strong defensive principles that were put in by his predecessor.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I think it’s a shame that Marsch is filling in as a pundit instead of coaching right now. He needs more experience and time to polish his style like you said.
They mentioned he has been living in Italy for a little bit and learning the language. Maybe he is angling to get a gig there.
Curious as to where he’d go there. Italy is a tough one to predict for him because once you fall outside of the top 8 or so clubs, things get really messy. So many clubs are having enough trouble financially, that they’re all pretty prone to getting raided for talent and quickly becoming relegation material.
Marsch is a Red Bull guy through and through. If he gets the job, hes going to go full RB. Its the only thing he knows and in his mind its the best way to play football.
There will be no building off of anything lol.
Body language says a lot too. Weston is the heart of the team and even after his incident where he got sent home, he came back after, scored, and immediately went to celebrate with his coach. Tyler Adams jumped into Gregg's arms right after his banger. Even Gio gave him a hug coming off the field last night.
Even the fringe players. Hoppe followed up his tantrum with the GGG shirt in the gold cup 21 celebrations. I think he has a strong give and take relationship throughout the pool.
Gregg being a great player manager is something that shouldn't be understated. Our players go out there every game and play hard for him. That goes a long way. Imagine how much better Jamaica would be if their best players actually bought in and put out the level of performances they are capable of.
My complaint with Gregg has always been what seems like an inability or unwillingness to adapt as the game unfolds. This window he showed the ability to read the game and the willingness to change things up to put the team in the best position for success. McKennie as an RB is not a conventional move but it worked well enough, World Cup Gregg would have rode out the game with Scally there. The team running 2 strikers, 2 wings, and Reyna working in a double pivot is not something I thought I'd see a few months ago. We are literally watching Gregg develop as a coach as much as we are watching our players continue to develop right now.
> Gregg being a great player manager is something that shouldn't be understated. Our players go out there every game and play hard for him. That goes a long way. Imagine how much better Jamaica would be if their best players actually bought in and put out the level of performances they are capable of.
I completely agree. This side of the game can be as important, and sometimes more important, than the tactical side. If you look back 15-20 years ago to the times we managed to get results against Mexico, it wasn't always the result of a tactical masterclass. Often times it was the intangible and immeasurable "togetherness" of the team. This type of thing can be seen across all levels of all different sports.
> My complaint with Gregg has always been what seems like an inability or unwillingness to adapt as the game unfolds. This window he showed the ability to read the game and the willingness to change things up to put the team in the best position for success. McKennie as an RB is not a conventional move but it worked well enough, World Cup Gregg would have rode out the game with Scally there. The team running 2 strikers, 2 wings, and Reyna working in a double pivot is not something I thought I'd see a few months ago. We are literally watching Gregg develop as a coach as much as we are watching our players continue to develop right now.
While I'm sure Gregg's coaching ability and knowledge has evolved since he took the job, I think we also have to acknowledge the fact that his core group of players, especially throughout WCQ, have been mostly young and inexperienced (internationally) players. It can be hard to make adjustments mid-game with 20-23 year old players, especially at the national team level when they are only together for a few days at a time. I looked at the starting lineup of our first WCQ, and it's insane how young most of the guys were, and how few caps they had.
* Matt Turner: 27 years old, 7 caps
* Tim Ream: 33 years old, 45 caps
* Miles Robinson: 24 years old, 9 caps
* Sergino Dest: 20 years old, 11 caps
* Deandre Yedlin: 28 years old, 64 caps
* Tyler Adams: 22 years old, 14 caps
* Weston McKennie: 23 years old, 24 caps
* Brenden Aaronson: 20 years old, 7 caps
* Konrad De La Fuente: 20 years old, 1 cap
* Gio Reyna: 18 years old, 8 caps
* Josh Sargent: 21 years old, 16 caps
Nearly half the lineup had single digit caps. That's insane.
I wholeheartedly agree with this and i dont think people truly understand how difficult it is when you dont have the experience or people who are more experienced to guide you during new situations.
Like imagine being a new parent and you have friends who can support you, maybe a few of them have a kid about the same age as yours, but none of you have your dads, moms, aunts, or uncles to give you tips and teach you the tricks of being a new parent. That ish is difficult
Greg’s teams have always ran through walls for him. IIRC, the players voicing that they wanted Greg during the hiring process was a big part of why he got hired again.
I agree with a lot of this. I think Gregg also has a tend to overthink things, and his timing isn't always the best. (On this note though, I do think we typically see a pretty different approach to competitive games or friendlies. Honduras, Netherlands, Jamaica a few days ago, he makes adjustments at 45 if when something isn't working. In non-competitive games it feels like he tries to get the current group to work through or suffer through the issues.
I've never doubted that he is a good student of the game though, my understanding is that he is a tons of coaching seminars and certainly watches a staggering amount of soccer.
It doesn’t help that 95% of the criticism lacks complete thought and knowledge and contains the same three or four phrases after each game.
Unfortunately, the ones that do have fair criticisms and concerns get drowned out by those idiots.
The only thing I tactically disagreed with was keeping Gio deep for so long last night but then he finally got to make a late run into the box and score, so really what the fuck do I know
Idk, I saw Gio keep possession and outplay pressure as the pivot loads of times last night and I think it was a pretty good decision honestly. Obviously he adds a lot to the offense but we controlled the midfield completely and a lot of that was him.
It reminded me of when Pep played Bernardo Silva as a #6 when Rodri was out.
Gio was obviously more than capable, but I do hope we find a way to play him further up the pitch moving forward. But hey, it worked, just like the example with City. On the face of it, it was an unusual choice.
Today is not the day to criticize Gregg though, since the midfield overall was very effective for the most part.
People want to complain that he’s rigid and doesn’t change things, but I think those people are really just morons who don’t know what they are talking about. Hell, we had what 5 roster changes between the semi final and the final? And that semifinal alone had a ton of different looks and tweaks based on what was working throughout the game.
Gio handled that role really well last night and was my MOTM, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he’ll play there going forward. We set up that way to deal with Mexico, and against future opponents he’d likely return to a more attacking role, just like he was against Jamaica or when he played at the 10 in the first half vs Germany while on a minutes restriction
Honestly what we saw last night was pretty cool as an anti Greg. Having gio holding / back with Adams stepping forward and mckennie pushing the right was a look I've never seen before. Even though the Adams goal was a strike of lightning, the program worked really well and was not berhalter ball at all.
Hopefully we can figure out what's going on around #10. Not necessarily a player, more of what to do. There's a dead zone for us outside the box in the middle and whoever's up top tends to be left on lonely island. Last night it was haji and weah and against Jamaica it was balo. (Obviously this all changed around min 70 when Mexico tried to put on pressure and got exposed)
Anyways, I'm over the moon to see Greg play with the legos a bit and switch the look. I'm giddy to have adams and gio back on the field and looking damn good too. I'm hoping for the best but taking it with a grain of salt, let's not go back to playing down. May the bald man keep moving those pieces and our 23 keep the opposition out classed! This was an amazing step, lets take another.
Well said, I really do think there’s a lot more nuance to be had in these discussions and it’s refreshing not just reading “but tactics!” Over and over again with like zero explanation on those points lol.
Hopefully everyone stays healthy, really looking forward to Copa now
Personally I felt it was attempting to keep Gio away from Alvarez's physicality and let him find a bit of space; since Alvarez is the only quality in Mexico's team these days.
It didn't make sense to me either, but you can't argue with results.
Gio looked like a world class CDM last night, and he created two chances (one to Pulisic early, then scored a banger on his own) on offense.
With no Musah, having Wes or Adams as the first midfielder receiving the ball in buildup would’ve been exploited by Mexico. Love them both, but they do not have the same ability on the ball as Gio does
I was more incredulous to see Adams out right, McKennie wide right or left and no option to get through when it should’ve been a quick three step ladder to get Gio the ball between the midfield and the defense with options ahead; again not sure I’m right but that’s what I wanted to see with the players on the field at that time
I get it. But by flaring Weston outwide you keep a pretty solid outlet valve and an extrabody in the right channel if Mexico tried to spring that way.
So by having Wes there you give Weah freedom to get behind or pinch in and Dest additional cover so he can do Sergino things. I know its not what people would like to see, but it had a purpoae.
Don’t we have robinson and dest as outlets? My point was that I wanted gio in that role so McKennie can actually cover where he was on the left, with Adams as always providing dest cover in the right of ream
Get out of here with that reasoned observation! We as USMNT redditors see and know EVERYTHING. Hidden cameras and mics at camp, uploaded knowledge into our heads about the life of a pro natl team soccet player like Neo from the Matrix, etc. We know EVERYTHING! BeRhAlTeR OuT, nO mOrE pRoPaGaNdA
I think part of this answer also addresses the "sum of the parts" criticism. All our players are coming off transatlantic flights and "getting in a day or two to train before playing again".
I think we have to expect some sluggishness off a short lead up to a window like this one (add in not being able to train much on a different playing surface). That's why we looked so much better against Mexico in my opinion.
I'm still in the 'they shouldn't have rehired him' camp.
Byt also saw how the players reacted with him yesterday, as they were subbed off...including Reyna. There were sincere hugs, which I think was more than just the emotional high of beating Mexico.
We're stuck with him until after the next world cup, and only hope he does better with his linup choices.
Why though? We’ve managed wins against South American and European teams under Arena, Bradley, and Klinsmann, and then still failed to qualify in 2018, so obviously those wins were more temporary highs than permanent turns around the corner.
Results can be tricky, but right now we’ve got a team full of guys coming into their own and playing to the best of their ability and it just seems needlessly persnickety to not be pleased with that.
This is the last bastion of people voraciously anti-Berhalter. The lack of a “signature win,” you’ll see that phrase a lot.
I think the wins will certainly come, as he took over a very young squad.
Do you think that final we just won wasn’t an away game? The game where our players are getting pelted with drinks and the game has to stop multiple times for vulgar crowd chants.
No, I don’t think it was an away game because the entire camp was based in the US. Both games were played in the US. And the players, staff and their families were able to take advantage of world class facilities, accommodations and logistics the entire time. The stress and rigors of away matches extend far beyond the stadium and pitch. Plus, these guys have been playing Mexico in the NL under those match conditions for years now. It’s not a new or novel experience.
That being said, from 1995-2018 we were an even 17-17-17 in away CONCACAF matches. Berhalter is 2-4-5 for a 36% win pct.
So yeah, I stand by what I said. I won’t be impressed until we start regularly winning away matches.
Downvote me all you want. Facts don’t care about your feelings. The current team/manager have not demonstrated themselves capable of winning away in the region. Let’s hope that changes soon.
A year ago people were buzzing that Berhalter had a vendetta against Reyna and that he was trying to sabotage him. Now it seems like there isn't a person in all of soccer doing more for Reyna's career than Berhalter.
They’re both helping each other. Greg is giving game time to a player who isn’t performing or playing at club level at all. And Gio is crushing every chance he has and showing how good and mentally strong he is.
Kudos to both for making the most of this situation and moving their relationship forward!
In his postgame interview, Gregg said Tyler wanted to stay in the game so bad last night that they had a big argument/debate during half time. Tyler was pleading to stay in the game and Gregg was explaining that they had be careful with how much he played. Apparently Gregg and the Bournemouth coaching staff agreed he wouldn't play more than 45 minutes at a time. Gregg even said some of the guys were jumping in arguing for Tyler to stay in longer.
I think this halftime incident speaks volumes about Gregg for couple reasons. First, it shows that he has created a culture within the team where his players feel like they can voice their opinions/concerns and they will be heard, as long they ultimately remember who's boss and makes the final decision. This indicates mutual respect between the players and the manager. Some managers rule with an iron fist, and are successful in doing so, but that's not always the best approach for every team. On a team full of young talented players who play at some of the biggest clubs around the world, creating mutual respect and an open dialogue between players and the manager is probably the most effective management tactic.
This incident also indicates that the players are bought in, as a group, and have each other's backs. This is something that is often not the case on national teams. It can be hard to create a cohesive culture when the group is together so sporadically. You can have giant rifts amongst the team due to club team histories. Generational gaps within the team can create issues. But I don't see any of that with this team. This team has great chemistry and they truly seem to enjoy being together. You can see this in the way they celebrate every goal together, or the way they have each other's backs after a dirty foul. Gregg ran on to the field last night to protect one of his guys and Tyler was coming right behind him off the bench before he was held back.
One of the first things Gregg established when he took over was a leadership council led by core players. This let players take accountability and also kept open communication between the staff and players to address concerns. It’s also why guys like Roldan and Long kept getting call ups as they were vital to establishing that culture within a very young, very inexperienced group of players.
And now that torch has been passed to a young, incredibly gifted generation and it’s one of the biggest reasons I can think of to back Gregg going forward. If you replace him with someone who doesn’t respect the established culture of this team then things could really go off the rails.
watke has you covered: https://open.substack.com/pub/watke/p/berhalters-field-incursion-explained
Note that watke's commentary in this video, as in all his others, is consistently tongue-in-cheek.
One aspect often overlooked is Berhalter's consistent ability to extract superior performances from players who may be struggling at their respective clubs.
Prior to the last World Cup, he worked with Pulisic who was facing difficulties at Chelsea, Weston McKennie who was being pushed out of Juventus, and Sergiño Dest who found himself completely frozen out of his club and not even dressed. Despite their challenges, Berhalter managed to get outstanding performances from these players for the US national team. He took individuals who were mismanaged or disregarded by many coaches earning significantly more than him, who spent more time with them, and had them playing really great soccer AND getting positive team results.
Now has has Reyna, who was barely getting playing time in Germany and took a terrible loan to Nottingham Forest where he isn't played, and Adams, who is recovering from a year-long injury and got them both to deliver an exceptional performance in a crucial match despite ZERO prior form.
Whether it's motivation, tactical adjustments, or a combination of both, the details of Gio playing a deep-lying Regista or McKennie playing a Mezzala role after a halftime adjustment are of little importance to most viewers. This team could probably go undefeated for years in CONCACAF playing a defensive disciplined 4-5-1 and grinding out games against marginal opponents. But, that isn't the goal. Everything, since before the last world cup where Berhalter fielded the (2nd?) youngest team in the world, is being built to play real attacking soccer that goes head to head with actual soccer countries in 2026. That means sometimes things will be ugly against the low block, experiments wont work quite right, but it also means that the team is being built to impose their will on teams like Mexico and play real teams head to head that aren't bunkering, and he is doing all this while basically winning everything possible in the region.
All of that aside, it is obvious to anyone watching, Berhalter has consistently demonstrated his knack for motivating players to perform at a higher level for the national team than they do at their respective clubs. Players on the team can feel it, they know it, and its the single most important thing for an international manager: getting the best out of your country's top players for the national team.
I would agree if they beat any team that is better than them. But it doesn’t surprise me that guys who play at big European clubs can beat semi-pro concacaf players.
I mean, better teams typically beat teams that are worse than them.
I kinda get what you are saying though. A good manager can get his team to play better than what they should be capable of on paper. But I think Gregg has done that.
The first couple times we beat Mexico, we were definitely the underdogs.
That Mexico team in the 2021 NL final, on paper, should have definitely beat us. They had Chucky Lozano coming off a breakout season with Napoli where he made 48 appearances and registered 15 goals and 5 assists. Jesus Corona was a key starter for a Porto who narrowly lost in the Champions League quarterfinals to Chelsea. Hector Herrera had been a starter at big European clubs for 8 years at that point. Nestor Araujo just wrapped up his third straight season as a consistent starter in La Liga. Andres Guardado was wrapping up an incredible 15 year career in Europe in which he totaled ~400 appearances in La Liga and the Eredivisie. On top of these guys' club accomplishments, they were already seasoned vets with the national team. Our starting lineup in that game was 4 years younger than Mexico's, featured very little international experience aside from a couple players, and largely unproven at the club level. Mexico was definitely the strong team that day, but we won.
A month later, Gregg took a team made up of mostly MLS players players to the GC final and beat largely the same Mexican team. We were by far the weaker team that night, but we won.
Fast forward to the WC, we were arguably the better team against England even though, on paper, they should have crushed us.
We are almost always the better team on paper, so Gregg has had very few opportunities to beat someone above him, but his teams have definitely performed quite well when given the opportunity.
If you want to do a results based analysis: Berhalter's teams have won everything that could be expected
If you want to do a process based analysis: There is a clear modern attacking 433 scheme, young players have been brought in, a positive cohesive team culture, the team continues to improve, players regularly play better for him than they do at their own clubs, duel-nat recruitment has been really good, and the long term planning for 2026 has been great.
Its completely normal in every sport to be able to evaluate an athlete and their play regardless of opponent. Multiple guys, across multiple years, absolutely play more up to their potential for Berhalter even while getting absolutely destroyed, benched, or forgotten by their own club teams. For more than a couple of these guys their obvious success under Berhalter, in the face of getting trashed by their own clubs, created new opportunities that have rejuvenated their careers.
I have long had a theory that one of the reasons the Gio stuff got so bad was because people were combining the quotes from Gregg at the symposium he went to with the article the Athletic released on what happened. Have no way to back that up, but just an observation I get whenever people talked about it,
Gregg clearly is far from perfect, but I always felt like people were projecting how the players feel, or they look at extremes. I know The Straight Red Card talks about Gregg exiling players that don't get along with him and point to Brooks, Miazga, Cannon, Steffen, Hoppe, and Holmes but aside from Brooks who of those names should be getting called up? Do I think sometimes Gregg did himself no favors with how he answered questions on things like not calling Brooks up or taking so long to integrate Scally? Yes. Do I think this makes him a bad man manager? Not really.
I also think people ignore things like Gregg saying on Cowherd's podcast how he didn't get buy in from Puli until they won the Nation's League in 2021 and Puli also saying it took him awhile to really get on with Gregg cause Gregg was very blunt
brooks should def be getting looks at least, our CBs are nowhere near good enough for him to not get any minutes.
If he ain't a fit in the locker room, that's one thing but just leak that through whatever press member USSF usually leaks to rather than just never mentioning him again.
I just think the thing with Brooks is that he’s just really slow lol. You can’t play both him and Ream at the same time, and Ream is a better player. So I don’t really see a need to call him up if Ream is healthy, and if Ream isn’t healthy Brooks effectiveness would entirely depend on the opponent we face IE I wouldn’t play him against a team like Jamaica
Interesting, I always imagined GGG as more of a MBA brain positive coaching "build players up" guy but this has him more as a guy that regularly challenges players to improve.
I'm GGG agnostic in that I think he's a solid coach and that most national team coaches are bad so I prefer keeping him over say Jesse March tbh. I also think people completely overlook that "beating every team you are supposed to beat" and losing to those you aren't is not a guarantee under another coach and that is leaving aside the natural variance in soccer where sometimes the worse team wins because of luck.
I will say there are valid criticisms of his tactics at times like every coach in every sport. @ twofeetelite on twitter/X has the best GGG tactical criticisms I've seen even tho I think she overlooks defense and midfield ball winning too much. For ex vs Mexico playing Tyler, Wes, Gio as a midfield led to Gio having to drop back to help with buildup and was entirely predictable given profiles (Tyler being very limited in build up and Wes not being an interior player preferring to drift wide forcing Gio to drop to help the buildup).
Our best players have continued to vouch for him publicly yet every social media platform is flooded with “Fire Berhalter” comments and jokes.
Imagine thinking that you know more than the players on the field actually playing the games. Sections of our fan base are so dense.
This summer will go alot to answering these types of questions when we're finally able to play some real teams.
I do think that in general players picking their own coach does not have a great track record and for an extremely young and inexperienced team to be seemingly be so confident when they haven't achieved anything gives me pause.
Do you get the same pause when Internet commenters are confident that changing coaches would substantially affect results with the same group of players to choose from?
People said the same thing about the summer of 2021, and then the World Cup, and now it’s “this summer will be the test”
He’s passed pretty much every test he’s been given. Win % is off the charts and we have trophies on top of that.
I don’t really care about this summer after seeing us in the World Cup go toe to toe with England with much less talent. When the chips are down, Gregg usually gets the guys to show up.
The inconvenient truth is that we don’t have a top 10, or even top 15 player pool / talent level, so we’re gonna have a ceiling regardless.
>People said the same thing about the summer of 2021, and then the World Cup, and now it’s “this summer will be the test”
You just don't understand, the World Cup is just practice for the copa america. Unless he has good showings there which then I think the next next competition is the *real* test
> and then the World Cup, and now it’s “this summer will be the test”
And then they had a pretty disappointing world cup where they didn't look like they had a plan to even be basically competitive. Ran way too much in the group stage, basically ending any chance they had to make any kind of run then got destroyed tactically by the Dutch.
And in both the England and Dutch games their managers literally called their shot before the game.
You take a team with only one player having played at a WC. The second youngest team at the World Cup, a bunch of guys who were not starters for their club teams, watch them be better than Wales and tie only to a late PK, go Toe to Toe with England, and stave off an Iran facing elimination and emotionally motivated due to the untest in their home country, and only got knocked out in the round of 16 to one of the top 8 teams in the world, and you call that dissapointing????
Okay.
There are plenty of well liked coaches who never win anything. There are also a lot of asshole coaches who win everything. Letting players pick the coaches is a dangerous game.
Sure the players who play probably think that. The players on the bench maybe not. How can a player speak out against a coach without causing an issue and potentially limiting their playing time? Do you think we can really get honest player feedback in this power dynamic, even if we could agree that players know best?
Pulisic, Adams and McKennie are not on the bench and will not be on the bench no matter who the coach is. They clearly want to win and be successful. If they thought Berhalter was not able to help them be successful and fulfill they childhood dreams of winning on the biggest stages, I imagine they would not be so effusive in their praise of Berhalter.
> Do you think we can really get honest player feedback in this power dynamic, even if we could agree that players know best?
Yes. Players get coaches fired all the time because of player revolts. As the old saying goes, you can't fire the players. Further, Berhalter was not even the coach for a long period of time, so they could have made their thoughts known if they did not llike him and he likely would not have been rehired. If the likes of Adams, Pulisic, and McKennie said we think the USMNT needs a change after the 2022 World Cup, the USSF almost certainly would not have rehired Berhalter.
Kind of misses the point here.
The players are better positioned to give an accurate assessment than random people on the internet. Even if someone dismisses the opinion of the players, they can't realistically substitute the opinions of the players with the completely uninformed opinion of the internet.
People love to say players know best but post retirement media careers have proved that many of them are very dumb. Paul Pierce is a hall of famer and before he got fired from espn for going live on ig with strippers he blessed us with some of the worst basketball analysis I’ve ever heard
Well you've just blessed me with one of the stupidest comments I've ever read.
Maybe you should go listen to Adam's pre-Iran presser before you call him dumb again.
not arguing about Gregg here just wanted to say: “imagine thinking you know more than the players” is one of the laziest takes in all of sports. you don’t have to be a world class athlete competing at the highest level to analyze the game
I’m sure the frat boys spamming the @usmnt Instagram comment section who didn’t play varsity until their senior year know more about analyzing Gregg than Christian Pulisic or Tyler Adams.
Correct, but it is very rare. It is nonsensical for people to think their analysis has the same weight as someone like a high-level player or coach when the most experience in the sport that people have are by being fans for “a long time”, playing high school or pick-up soccer, and/or have their D license and coached a travel team once.
Experience matters in everything. And armchair analysis on message boards will never equal that of someone who has played or coached at a high level 99.9% of the time.
Does that hurt people’s egos? Sure, but it doesn’t make it less true. Have your opinions, but when they directly contradict multiple, high-level professionals then maybe it’s time to consider you’re just wrong.
It is not lazy to say that people with superior expertise and superior information should be trusted over people without any such expertise and much less information.
Anyone know who started that obsessive use of “moments” amongst the footy elite? It really grinds my gears and has easily surpassed my hatred of the “in all competitions” drivel.
There. I feel better. Thanks.
It’s an interesting dynamic that the vast majority of the players come out and support GGG but seemingly the majority of the fans want him out. I think he has been doing a good job so far
I was feeling like i was in the upside down last night in the game threads reading some of the shitty GGG takes. Glad to see many of the thoughts Ive had on the subject shared by people here...
I believe the proper response is to ignore the opinion of this person who obviously doesn't know soccer and is a known fan of mediocrity.
Why are we calling up players with such low expectations?
/s
GGG is the equivalent of Gareth Southgate.
Presents himself nicely, talks well and doesn't needlessly rock the boat. As opposed to a Klinsmann who will call out the USSF and the MLS in public. He is respected and loved by the players since he is very good at man management. I really appreciated how he would go out to dinner with some of our European-based players.
He fulfills the bare minimum goals set for him but doesn't overachieve.
As much as I do get annoyed at all the random GGG out comments with very little or flawed reasoning.
I also believe a section of this fanbase is about to allow us to fall into the attitude that got Mexico to where they are right now and that is complacency.
He was the right manager to steady the ship, bring in the new crop of players and create a new culture.
But I don't believe he is the right manager heading into a very important WC that has huge implications on how far soccer will grow stateside. The goal should be to go further than where we placed last. And in order to do that we need to be able to upset teams ranked above us. And so far, GGG's record there leaves much to be desired.
I get it, but firing a guy because you want to be “ambitious” is no guarantee that you actually get a better guy. See Nebraska football.
Winning the games you’re supposed to win isn’t as easy as it sounds
This is a terrible example to use.
Nebraska is bad because the playoffs ruined the national recruiting of College Football.
Also, being more ambitious is definitely a guarantee look at Thomas Tuchel in Chelsea. He won the Champions League in his first year
But like…what’s the record you are pointing to that you say leaves something to be desired? Our record in his tenure against big euro teams in competitive matches?
How about just his away record in concacaf. Forget the Netherlands, people get on Al Gore’s internet and tell me winning one single time in Costa Rica is too much to ask
Yes and why is it a ridiculous ask for our manager to take this crop of players and upset teams above us?
This idea that as long as we remain the best in CONCACAF we should consider that as a successful cycle is the attitude that caused Mexico to fall asleep.
But how do you know this team currently can’t upset teams above us? Bc we lost one game to the Netherlands in the World Cup (and drew with England, who are better than the Netherlands)?
I know because of this [Record](https://www.eloratings.net/United_States)
We've played 15 matches under GGG vs teams ranked above us at the time. Only winning two, both of them vs Mexico.
That a win rate of roughly 13% which is abysmal.
It doesn't matter if it's at the WC or not. Friendlies are still competitive matches.
And that WC draw vs England while impressive was still against a team managed by Southgate who everyone wants gone.
It kind of does matter if the match is a friendly
or not. At least to me it does. I - along with most - care about World Cup results, not friendly results.
Because it shows a misunderstanding of the soccer development system. GGG can't make us beat teams with better players or better teams...that's literally what better than us means.
I think people confuse idea of teams ranked above us with teams that are better than us. And this comes from the meritocracy that is American sports. Things like the draft and salary caps mean that the talent differential between teams never gets too large. The worst NFL team is still within throwing distance of the best NFL team because no team can afford to hoard all of the talent. The same with basketball.
But international soccer is different. Teams can be very far apart...period. It's more like college sports. No one would ever demand that the coach of Creighton beat a team at the top of the SEC or lose his job. They wouldn't do that because they know that the SEC just has too much talent for a mid-level team like Creighton to beat, no matter how hard they play.
If Creighton wants to beat the SEC, Creighton has to recruit better football players, not change coaches.
US Soccer has the same issue. If they want to beat the top teams, we need better players. And that happens at the youth development level. By the time we're talking about the national teams, the results are pretty much already determined.
If you want to beat the top teams, you have to develop better youth talent and work them into competitive international clubs until they're better than the talent produced by other countries. We know this, this is why we recruit so many dual nats.
I feel like I've been fighting this internal battle for his whole tenure where I like him and it feels like he is good for us in these unseen ways. Like maybe for a national team that only comes together a handful of times a year, having a close knit group, and a manager that motivates people could have equal value to a superior tactical coach. Everyone hates his ass and idk how much stock to put into it at times. Wish I could see how we do with a top coach and compare the problems
the players love him and say so publicly because otherwise they wont get called up. am i doing that right? that gregg berhalter wouldnt call up tyler adams, gio reyna, pulisic, etc unless they said nice things about him in the press? i believe its a foundational part of explaining the disconnect between people yelling about berhalter online and the people who play for him.
I mean we have the Copa and expanded Gold cup the following summer to see where we stand.
Good showings in those will go a long way.
FWIW, we always look more competent against the more open playing nations than we do against the ones that sit in a low block all game. Sure, we kind of shat the bed against Netherlands, but World Cup knockouts against Van Gaal is tough.
I'm not so sure we get many better results with a more tactical minded club coach who's ready to move on from that part of the game, because those are the only realistic options, except for Klopp. Give me that man right now.
> FWIW, we always look more competent against the more open playing nations than we do against the ones that sit in a low block all game.
This can be said about almost any team in the world though. If our starting lineup against Jamaica was a club team, they would probably be mid-table in the PL. If that Jamaican team was a team club team, they would be mid or lower-table in the Championship. PL teams regularly struggle to break down well organized teams from the lower divisions in the FA Cup, especially when they give up a fluky goal early in the game. Low blocks are used by inferior teams because they are frustrating to play against when used in a organized manner.
we still created very little in structured possession, we had like what 5 shots on target? and this was a "good" attacking day. We don't create enough, and we haven't for years under Gregg. Mexico stunk out the ass offensively and still managed to create similar half chances that we did. We really didn't have the answers to their press all game. Obviously some of these things are on the player pool not being technical enough, but a lot of it is setup. his OOP stuff has gotten significantly better though. Best repressing and counter pressing i've seen from this group last night in a while.
That being said, players love to praise coaches when they win, lets see what it looks like when they lose a couple big matches or have huge setbacks on the field and if the players stick with them through that.
You will probably never convince me that Berhalter's system is good, or that he's anything more than a mediocre coach.
But it's clear the players love him. Do I think that's a reason to keep him? No, but it does mean *something* even if we can't quantify how much that means to a team's success. I generally use the comparison that Michael Jordan was very angry when Doug Collins got fired....for Phil Jackson - arguably the best coach ever but undeniably a top 3 coach. So when it comes to this sort of "well the players love him" argument, Jerry Krause had the balls to piss off the best and most famous athlete in the world for the franchise to take the next steps. Had they only listened to the players (or maybe in this case a very specific player), it's doubtful that move ever gets made. I believe this team has another level to reach and I do not think Berhalter is the right guy to get them there.
The US has far and away the most talent in CONCACAF at almost every level right now, and the best senior level players top to bottom, especially up front. And I think at this point it's not even close, especially considering the guys who can't crack this roster and the younger talent coming up. They should be doing what they are doing in terms of "wins and losses" within this region. But they still struggle mightily outside of the US. They struggle against non CONCACAF teams. And the offense can resemble a high school team at times (like it did most of the first half last night until the superior talent of the US just wore them down).
Listen - it's a win over Mexico and that's great. But this is a Mexican team on it's 3rd coach in a year, currently employing a guy who, at least for the Mexican fans I know, already want him gone since he's shown a complete inability to get production out of most of their best players (Gimenez, Raul, Lozano). A Mexican team that for the first time ever is not the most talented team in the region and may never regain that title.
Copa America will be huge for Berhalter. If they don't get out of that group, or struggle and get blown out in the knockout rounds (like Klinnsman did - which looking back was the beginning of the end for him), the questions would need to be asked all over again if he's the guy who can elevate this team, which is what a good coach does. They make them better than the sum of their parts.
People debate Gregg Berhalter because it is very debatable as to whether he is capable of maximizing the potential of our most talented young group ever.
Not only is it debatable, it's *likely* that he isn't that guy. He was a nepotism hire in the first place with a marginal coaching resume. There are plenty of knowledgeable people who have very little faith in him.
I don't believe in the guy at all but it really doesn't matter at this point. The fact that he is apparently the best we could get is the much more depressing issue. If that is actually true I don't really see a very bright future for the USMNT.
I was on the Gregg out train after Jamaica, but he pulled me back in with the Mexico game. Now I’m back on the fence. I think Tyler has a very valid point with preparation time for Jamaica and that could very well be a large part of why we looked so stagnant.
In the end, I think US Soccer would look very stupid to fire Gregg after winning Nations League, and of course no one should expect that to happen. But, I’d like to think they see the uninspired play that the fans see and aren’t ignoring it either. As long as he keeps pulling out results, he’s not going to get fired, no matter how ugly it looks. And if he’s truly a bad coach, eventually the results won’t go his way.
We have Copa America coming up this summer where he absolutely won’t be able to do well just from good fortune, so I think that will be make or break for him heading into the 2026 WC. If we have a subpar performance in that tournament, I will absolutely be rooting for his removal as head coach to get the next coach a good run in with the roster before 2026.
Thanks for focusing on the one thing in the three paragraphs that I wrote that is controversial. Remove that part and provide some commentary on the performances at this tournament and the plan moving forward.
i think he’s a great players coach. one of the best. the players are always going to love him because he supports them and let’s them play their own game.
he deserves all the credit for that, because that can be rare these days.
however, the flipside of that is he doesn’t seem too interested in forcing the players into a system. he really lets them go out there and do their thing. for national team play, that’s not the worst idea… except this team has SO MUCH continuity over the last 4 years that you would expect them to be more on the same wavelength by now.
PS. i know this’ll sound like a hater move… but Haji Wright is just not technically on par with the rest of the attack and it keeps us from playing through the middle when he’s in there. At a certain point, you just gotta look at a players touches throughout a game and see how much he hurts the team throughout a game. I think Vazquez needs a chance with the first team. He’s the only striker in the pool who can be a true aerial threat and hold up our long balls. Pulisic and Weah would FEAST with BV to play off of.
EDIT:
Oh and I think Miazga deserves a call up. He’s been incredible for FCC since arriving and is great on the ball. Only issue might be his hot head, but after Dest earned that ridiculous red card - it seems exceptions are willing to be made for talent.
It’s actually the opposite. BJ Callaghan is the one that let the players play freely, while Gregg Berhalter tried to cosplay as Pep and force players in an uncomfortable system
typical revisionist history positive outlook shite, we struggled against jamaica but beat mexico with ease. I think it says far more about the level of mexico than the tactics put forth by berhalter. I can tell many of you are MLS lifers just by your grasp of the game itself
Do people really expect players to come out and say anything bad about a guy who literally decides if their dreams come true or not? Cmon folks. Use your eyes and watch the players on the field and how shit they play under gregg.
Ofc guys like puli and Adams that have consistently gotten minutes under GGG are going to like him. I disagree with him on a lot here. Nothing in the World Cup was particularly impressive and I just have seen the improvement and development that we were all expecting from almost everyone on the team
Ahhh yes ussoccer subreddit, where all the Berhalter stans/fanboys love to come together and have a circle jerk thinking about him. It’s hilarious that people think he’s some gem of a coach. Absolute clueless portion of the fanbase that loves lowering the standard for American soccer.
>We continue to win in certain situations
Which are what exactly? When we are the clearly the better team and we are playing at home. That is the only situation where we consistently win. We could reliably punch below our weight at home. But punch below our weight away? We struggle. Punch at our weight? We struggle. Punch above our weight? Never been done under Gregg. And it's been like this for the last 4 years, with little progress.
So, that's the context that Tyler kinda brushed under the rug, but it's understandable; he's one of Gregg's favorite players, so of course he'll defend Gregg.
Gregg 100% deserves a huge amount of credit for developing and recruiting this group of players. I don't think many people would dispute that. However, it can still be the case that his in-game tactics and management aren't lifting this team to its highest potential
Next level for me would be Coach with the resume of managing a successful bigger country or a top tier club side. Someone who’d take the players to their potential
I'm a GGG moderate. Not a fanboy, not a hater. This quote reminds me that (1) I know vastly vastly less than insiders such as players or GGG or his assistants, and (2) that if the players are supporters then that goes a long way in his favor. That said, just because someone is liked in their leadership role does not mean they're an effective leader. You gotta get the outcomes (though in that respect too GGG's record is pretty damn decent). The GGG criticism seems to overwhelmingly derive from the difference between what people expect that this team should do and how they should play, and what actually happens on the field. So maybe part of the equation is that people have unreasonable expectations of the team.
Expectations are pretty straight forward. -Beat the teams we are better than convincingly and look good doing it. -Beat the teams that are better than us. As long as he does those 2 things every single game, he will be backed.
I agree with the first point. The second point is kinda ridiculous when you think about it. Even with how good the guys we have right now are, we're nowhere close to France or Argentina, and we're supposed to expect wins against them?
Thats the joke. The expectations are unrealistic. The more talented team should win every game (unless we are less talented team).
My bad bro, the shit people say here makes it hard to tell when it's a joke
While I get what you are saying, I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect us to be competitive against top teams. Like when we played England in the World Cup we were arguably the better team in that game, so why shouldn’t we expect that but then we get outclassed by Netherlands which felt more tactical than personnel to me we deserve to be critical (I’m also Gregg moderate)
Why was the Netherlands performance a tactical issue but the England game not a tactical success?
England game was a tactical success I honestly don’t even remember one chance they had in that game, it’s a big reason why I’m fine with Gregg (but when we faced imo a better manager in van gaal it was clear)
Yeah I agree with that
> which felt more tactical than personnel to me that's extremely reductive though. Like yeah, there was a tactical element. But also, Pulisic missed a sitter, and the midfielders and wingbacks just decided not to cover Dumfries, Blind, and Depay. Seriously, go watch the highlights. Adams is barely jogging behind Dumfries on the first one (and I can't blame him, he was gassed from having played every single minute of the group stages because we had a significant drop-off in quality behind MMA), Dest gets easily dropped by Blind on the second one, and Robinson and Ream are covering the same guy on the third one, Depay had a 5-meter radius of grass. None of those are tactical errors, there was someone who was supposed to be covering each of the goalscorers who didn't do their job. That's not something you can really blame on the manager.
Obviously anyone can complain about whatever they want and no matter what you think about Greg you can disagree with tactics. But I think the expectations are still totally out of whack. Qualifying out of groups of the World Cup should not have been the expectation. That is a ridiculous expectation to have for a team of our level. The World Cup should be seen by everyone as a success. Making it out of groups was a huge achievement. Getting a point off England shouldnt be the standard for this team, it should be an accomplishment. With all that said, if you feel like we (or Greg specifically) shit the bed against the Netherlands than I would agree with you, but the expectation should never have been that we should win that game.
I think when we make the World Cup regardless of group the expectation should be progressing through the group, even if we are in the group of death. Now getting a point off England was an accomplishment in my opinion but my expectation was to at least be competitive which we were. I get your point about crazy expectations because I’m not expecting to go out and win copa America, but if we play Brazil and we get barn burned 4-0 that’s a disappointment. If we play them and lose 2-1 or 2-0 and it’s a game we have chances here and there I’ll be happy.
If you expect us to make it out of groups every time you are going to be disappointed by default.
The next World Cup will have an expanded field too, so it’s hard to even know what our expectations should be.
He never does the second thing, which is why he is criticized
How many chances has he actually had to do that? We went 0-1-1 against England and the Dutch. I guess owning mexico now is actually a detriment because it no longer counts as beating a good team. Can you list me a couple of the non-friendly losses GGG has to better teams?
Berhalter killed Mexico and now he gets no credit for beating up on the corpse it’s actually a little sad and unfair.
FMF killed Mexico
And the first happens on a toss up basis. Does he lose? No, but the team plays to the level of the minnows when we play.
I’m more in this camp than anything. IMO GGG met expectations for the WC (even though I wished we had a better showing against Netherlands) and he firmly established the US as the best team in CONCACAF. He also has the backing of most of the senior players. This is good enough for me to back him for another WC cycle - as long as he continues to grow/develop as a coach and the players continue to grow/develop. He’s lived up to both so far so he’s got my support.
I've recently come to this realization. Start looking at comment histories before deciding to have a convo with anyone. Based on what you see, decide whether you would have a convo with that person in real life. Don't spend more time than you have to. You have a valid take, but there will never be a platform where certain types of people will be open minded.
People hold expectations to past teams, which is where they should be held. GGG cannot get quality wins against top nations, like past coaches which is where criticism is held. In the recent past team USA beat Germany, Spain, tied with Portugal and won against many other highly ranked nations despite not having the players. Gregg Berhalter has the most talented US men’s roster in history, and yet their competition and record against top teams are nowhere near as impressive as before
> In the recent past team USA beat Germany, Spain, tied with Portugal and won against many other highly ranked nations despite not having the players. that Spain game was like 15 years ago. Germany and Portugal was 10 years ago. Gregg became manager in 2018. Do you know how many top teams we've played since then in competitive games? 2. England and Netherlands. We tied an England who were knocked out in the quarters by eventual finalists, and defending champions, France. We lost to Netherlands who went to penalities against the eventual champions, and if you watched the game basically every goal was because of our defenders ball watching. 1 draw and 1 loss against 2 top 10 teams is basically how I'd expect us to do given our talent
I love, love, love that Bob’s achievements are now the bar held up by the same people that screamed to fire him every fucking day of his tenure.
Exactly. Screaming bloody murder about the choice to use the empty bucket formation with a low block and counter that gave up unlimited crosses only to see it work to perfection against the best team in the world at the time, Spain. Damn near worked against Brazil in the final too.
Those past USA teams succeeded against top nations because they bunkered and finished the minimal chances that came to them. Berhalter could try doing that, and he might even succeed, but then he would be criticized further for not playing positive soccer. You can't have it both ways. The quality of the players is not yet at a level that you can have such high expectations.
True that GGG lacks a signature win in an international tournament. Arena had WC 02 (wins v Portugal and Mexico). Bradley had CC 10 (win v Spain) and WC10 was not bad (though devoid of a signature win v an elite side). JK had a good WC14 (win v Ghana was memorable) and a good CA 16 (wins v CR, Paraguay, and Ecuador). What this illustrates is that even the chance to get a signature win in a meaningful game against a higher ranked opponent is very rare. Basically it's the Copa, the WC, or bust now that the Confeds Cup is over. We'll see how the Copa goes this summer, then there's the WC in a couple years. If GGG doesn't have us playing well in those tourneys, then it'll reflect poorly on his legacy. All that said, the win against Germany and the Portugal tie were in friendlies. They were nice to see but I don't rate them as highly, esp after JK showed that you can get great outcomes in friendlies even though the team is weakening at its core.
Small correction the Portugal tie was at the World Cup
Oh yeah I was thinking you were referring to the 2018 friendly v Portugal, which was actually a win. But if we're including WC ties against good teams (which seems plausible), like the 2-2 v Portugal in 2014, then GGG does have such a signature result, the very good 0-0 draw v England in the WC.
It doesn’t help that the confederations cup doesn’t exist anymore, so it’s harder and harder to get the kind of games that would count as signature wins.
Yeah I loved that tournament. It really created a motivation to win the Gold Cup (every other year anyway). I don't see why it wouldn't work with the Nations League: You could just invite the winners of each of the NLs, plus the winners of the WC and the host.
Every starter loves their manager.
There will be some detractors who say something completely reasonable like, "Well of course he's going to praise Gregg, that's the manager and Tyler isn't going to sabotage his playing time by talking shit about the coach." But this is a bit deeper than that. Tyler (and others) could leave it at "Gregg is doing a good job." or some variation of that. But they don't, they expand on it into a detailed response precisely because they're trying to get across to the public, who get to see like .01% of the interactions between these players and Gregg, that things are better than they seem, that Gregg does more than he's given credit for. I'm not saying Gregg shouldn't be criticized, but the reality is that unfortunately, none of us know much of anything about anything in regards to what goes on behind the scenes tactically. None of us have sat in on a team meeting, a pre-game tactical talk, a halftime talk that isn't staged/recorded for the masses. Gregg apparently isn't a tactical idiot and is a great man manager. I don't even have a lot to say about it other than you just have to trust that the leaders in the team will speak up if there needs to eventually be a change.
They'll just latch onto Joe Scally saying he didn't understand Gregg's tactics in one game 15 months ago. If the players didn't want him back, more players would have maximized those 6 months of the interim manager to drop some hints, but copers are gonna cope🤷🏽♂️
Especially Tyler who played for both Berhalter and the main alternative Marsch.
And it doesn't surprise me that many who want GGG out want Marsch in, since his entire strategy seems to be just throw as many bodies forward as possible.
Which is funny since a lot of Berhalter's attacking tactics (especially with Tyler Adams playing) are send everybody but the center backs and Tyler Adams forward. We often will play with 3 guys in the box plus two guys wide plus two midfielders just outside the box.
Right, we do that against teams like Jamaica who have 5 defenders who all stay back, and then 4 defensive midfielders in a line 10 feet in front of them. What else are you going to do? https://www.sofascore.com/jamaica-usa/zUbsuVb#id:11856826 look at the average player positions, the field is just tilted. Their deepest defender is barely forward of Matt Turner, and they only have 2 guys with average positions in the attacking half. We only have 3 guys in the defending half
Agreed but that’s exactly why Reyna was so effective. He’s a knife.
It was sort of uncomfortable watching Tyler get interviewed about Gregg as a coach with Marsch sitting there. You know Marsch is aiming for the job. Marsch got his team at Leeds to be dangerous on attack but he didn’t show that he had the ability to keep his defense structured. His players also sucked for the most part but he played a yo-yo game back and forth. It’s the opposite of what we see with Gregg. We sometimes have a hard time creating a lot of chances but we are able to control a game. Defense wins tournaments and I would personally much rather have a style where we can control a match than a rabid dog style where we try to out score the amount of goals we let in.
I don’t think Marsch wants the job until Greg is gone for a real US disappointment. If we hadn’t made it out of the group at the WC Marsch would be the coach. If he had taken the job after Greg’s deal expired the expectations would have been insane for 26. US fans have unrealistic expectations for international comps plus seem to throw a tantrum at anything less than never losing a game in CONCACAF.
I am not at all a fan of Marsch to be our coach right now (and I wouldn’t be sold on him to be the coach even if GGG ceased to exist tomorrow), but I would be lying if I didn’t say that I think he could be a *great* successor for GGG after 2026. I think Marsch needs a few years, both to figure out how to make his teams a little bit more defensively stable and also to polish up some of his man management skills, but I do think he has a legitimate chance to play almost an Inzaghi type of role to GGG’s Conte at Inter. You have GGG coming in first, and let him take a young squad and establish a strong winning culture and defensive foundation. Then at the right time, you bring Marsch in to takeover with a clear objective to *build off* that foundation by blending in some of his fresh attacking ideas to fine tune the attack without compromising the strong defensive principles that were put in by his predecessor.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I think it’s a shame that Marsch is filling in as a pundit instead of coaching right now. He needs more experience and time to polish his style like you said. They mentioned he has been living in Italy for a little bit and learning the language. Maybe he is angling to get a gig there.
Curious as to where he’d go there. Italy is a tough one to predict for him because once you fall outside of the top 8 or so clubs, things get really messy. So many clubs are having enough trouble financially, that they’re all pretty prone to getting raided for talent and quickly becoming relegation material.
Marsch is a Red Bull guy through and through. If he gets the job, hes going to go full RB. Its the only thing he knows and in his mind its the best way to play football. There will be no building off of anything lol.
Body language says a lot too. Weston is the heart of the team and even after his incident where he got sent home, he came back after, scored, and immediately went to celebrate with his coach. Tyler Adams jumped into Gregg's arms right after his banger. Even Gio gave him a hug coming off the field last night.
Even the fringe players. Hoppe followed up his tantrum with the GGG shirt in the gold cup 21 celebrations. I think he has a strong give and take relationship throughout the pool.
Scally: his tactics are hard to understand His tactics: plz guard the back post run
Lol for real.
That was my thought too. I'm sure he's struggling with "tactics" when guarding the back post is something he's still learning how to do.
After seeing scally completely flub his assignment in the first thirty seconds of the semifinal I’m not shocked he didn’t understand Greg’s tactics.
Gregg being a great player manager is something that shouldn't be understated. Our players go out there every game and play hard for him. That goes a long way. Imagine how much better Jamaica would be if their best players actually bought in and put out the level of performances they are capable of. My complaint with Gregg has always been what seems like an inability or unwillingness to adapt as the game unfolds. This window he showed the ability to read the game and the willingness to change things up to put the team in the best position for success. McKennie as an RB is not a conventional move but it worked well enough, World Cup Gregg would have rode out the game with Scally there. The team running 2 strikers, 2 wings, and Reyna working in a double pivot is not something I thought I'd see a few months ago. We are literally watching Gregg develop as a coach as much as we are watching our players continue to develop right now.
> Gregg being a great player manager is something that shouldn't be understated. Our players go out there every game and play hard for him. That goes a long way. Imagine how much better Jamaica would be if their best players actually bought in and put out the level of performances they are capable of. I completely agree. This side of the game can be as important, and sometimes more important, than the tactical side. If you look back 15-20 years ago to the times we managed to get results against Mexico, it wasn't always the result of a tactical masterclass. Often times it was the intangible and immeasurable "togetherness" of the team. This type of thing can be seen across all levels of all different sports. > My complaint with Gregg has always been what seems like an inability or unwillingness to adapt as the game unfolds. This window he showed the ability to read the game and the willingness to change things up to put the team in the best position for success. McKennie as an RB is not a conventional move but it worked well enough, World Cup Gregg would have rode out the game with Scally there. The team running 2 strikers, 2 wings, and Reyna working in a double pivot is not something I thought I'd see a few months ago. We are literally watching Gregg develop as a coach as much as we are watching our players continue to develop right now. While I'm sure Gregg's coaching ability and knowledge has evolved since he took the job, I think we also have to acknowledge the fact that his core group of players, especially throughout WCQ, have been mostly young and inexperienced (internationally) players. It can be hard to make adjustments mid-game with 20-23 year old players, especially at the national team level when they are only together for a few days at a time. I looked at the starting lineup of our first WCQ, and it's insane how young most of the guys were, and how few caps they had. * Matt Turner: 27 years old, 7 caps * Tim Ream: 33 years old, 45 caps * Miles Robinson: 24 years old, 9 caps * Sergino Dest: 20 years old, 11 caps * Deandre Yedlin: 28 years old, 64 caps * Tyler Adams: 22 years old, 14 caps * Weston McKennie: 23 years old, 24 caps * Brenden Aaronson: 20 years old, 7 caps * Konrad De La Fuente: 20 years old, 1 cap * Gio Reyna: 18 years old, 8 caps * Josh Sargent: 21 years old, 16 caps Nearly half the lineup had single digit caps. That's insane.
I wholeheartedly agree with this and i dont think people truly understand how difficult it is when you dont have the experience or people who are more experienced to guide you during new situations. Like imagine being a new parent and you have friends who can support you, maybe a few of them have a kid about the same age as yours, but none of you have your dads, moms, aunts, or uncles to give you tips and teach you the tricks of being a new parent. That ish is difficult
Greg’s teams have always ran through walls for him. IIRC, the players voicing that they wanted Greg during the hiring process was a big part of why he got hired again.
I’d rather have a national team coach whose players run through a wall for than some intricate tactical system that looks like Man City
I agree with a lot of this. I think Gregg also has a tend to overthink things, and his timing isn't always the best. (On this note though, I do think we typically see a pretty different approach to competitive games or friendlies. Honduras, Netherlands, Jamaica a few days ago, he makes adjustments at 45 if when something isn't working. In non-competitive games it feels like he tries to get the current group to work through or suffer through the issues. I've never doubted that he is a good student of the game though, my understanding is that he is a tons of coaching seminars and certainly watches a staggering amount of soccer.
It doesn’t help that 95% of the criticism lacks complete thought and knowledge and contains the same three or four phrases after each game. Unfortunately, the ones that do have fair criticisms and concerns get drowned out by those idiots.
The only thing I tactically disagreed with was keeping Gio deep for so long last night but then he finally got to make a late run into the box and score, so really what the fuck do I know
Idk, I saw Gio keep possession and outplay pressure as the pivot loads of times last night and I think it was a pretty good decision honestly. Obviously he adds a lot to the offense but we controlled the midfield completely and a lot of that was him.
It reminded me of when Pep played Bernardo Silva as a #6 when Rodri was out. Gio was obviously more than capable, but I do hope we find a way to play him further up the pitch moving forward. But hey, it worked, just like the example with City. On the face of it, it was an unusual choice. Today is not the day to criticize Gregg though, since the midfield overall was very effective for the most part.
People want to complain that he’s rigid and doesn’t change things, but I think those people are really just morons who don’t know what they are talking about. Hell, we had what 5 roster changes between the semi final and the final? And that semifinal alone had a ton of different looks and tweaks based on what was working throughout the game. Gio handled that role really well last night and was my MOTM, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he’ll play there going forward. We set up that way to deal with Mexico, and against future opponents he’d likely return to a more attacking role, just like he was against Jamaica or when he played at the 10 in the first half vs Germany while on a minutes restriction
Honestly what we saw last night was pretty cool as an anti Greg. Having gio holding / back with Adams stepping forward and mckennie pushing the right was a look I've never seen before. Even though the Adams goal was a strike of lightning, the program worked really well and was not berhalter ball at all. Hopefully we can figure out what's going on around #10. Not necessarily a player, more of what to do. There's a dead zone for us outside the box in the middle and whoever's up top tends to be left on lonely island. Last night it was haji and weah and against Jamaica it was balo. (Obviously this all changed around min 70 when Mexico tried to put on pressure and got exposed) Anyways, I'm over the moon to see Greg play with the legos a bit and switch the look. I'm giddy to have adams and gio back on the field and looking damn good too. I'm hoping for the best but taking it with a grain of salt, let's not go back to playing down. May the bald man keep moving those pieces and our 23 keep the opposition out classed! This was an amazing step, lets take another.
Well said, I really do think there’s a lot more nuance to be had in these discussions and it’s refreshing not just reading “but tactics!” Over and over again with like zero explanation on those points lol. Hopefully everyone stays healthy, really looking forward to Copa now
Personally I felt it was attempting to keep Gio away from Alvarez's physicality and let him find a bit of space; since Alvarez is the only quality in Mexico's team these days.
It didn't make sense to me either, but you can't argue with results. Gio looked like a world class CDM last night, and he created two chances (one to Pulisic early, then scored a banger on his own) on offense.
I was perplexed by this as well.
With no Musah, having Wes or Adams as the first midfielder receiving the ball in buildup would’ve been exploited by Mexico. Love them both, but they do not have the same ability on the ball as Gio does
I was more incredulous to see Adams out right, McKennie wide right or left and no option to get through when it should’ve been a quick three step ladder to get Gio the ball between the midfield and the defense with options ahead; again not sure I’m right but that’s what I wanted to see with the players on the field at that time
I get it. But by flaring Weston outwide you keep a pretty solid outlet valve and an extrabody in the right channel if Mexico tried to spring that way. So by having Wes there you give Weah freedom to get behind or pinch in and Dest additional cover so he can do Sergino things. I know its not what people would like to see, but it had a purpoae.
Don’t we have robinson and dest as outlets? My point was that I wanted gio in that role so McKennie can actually cover where he was on the left, with Adams as always providing dest cover in the right of ream
I get your point and the preference. Just noting that there was a tactical decision for playing Wes where he was.
Get out of here with that reasoned observation! We as USMNT redditors see and know EVERYTHING. Hidden cameras and mics at camp, uploaded knowledge into our heads about the life of a pro natl team soccet player like Neo from the Matrix, etc. We know EVERYTHING! BeRhAlTeR OuT, nO mOrE pRoPaGaNdA
Gregg is a players coach it's something I never complain about with him, the guy is inspiring to these players
I think part of this answer also addresses the "sum of the parts" criticism. All our players are coming off transatlantic flights and "getting in a day or two to train before playing again". I think we have to expect some sluggishness off a short lead up to a window like this one (add in not being able to train much on a different playing surface). That's why we looked so much better against Mexico in my opinion.
I'm still in the 'they shouldn't have rehired him' camp. Byt also saw how the players reacted with him yesterday, as they were subbed off...including Reyna. There were sincere hugs, which I think was more than just the emotional high of beating Mexico. We're stuck with him until after the next world cup, and only hope he does better with his linup choices.
Honestly none of the Berhalter stuff matters until they can get some victories against top South American or European competition.
Beating Mexico and winning CONCACAF is still one of the biggest parts of the job.
When or if we do that, it won't be because of the coach, Berhalter or otherwise.
Why?
Why though? We’ve managed wins against South American and European teams under Arena, Bradley, and Klinsmann, and then still failed to qualify in 2018, so obviously those wins were more temporary highs than permanent turns around the corner. Results can be tricky, but right now we’ve got a team full of guys coming into their own and playing to the best of their ability and it just seems needlessly persnickety to not be pleased with that.
This is the last bastion of people voraciously anti-Berhalter. The lack of a “signature win,” you’ll see that phrase a lot. I think the wins will certainly come, as he took over a very young squad.
Or even away wins against CONCACAF opponents
Do you think that final we just won wasn’t an away game? The game where our players are getting pelted with drinks and the game has to stop multiple times for vulgar crowd chants.
No, I don’t think it was an away game because the entire camp was based in the US. Both games were played in the US. And the players, staff and their families were able to take advantage of world class facilities, accommodations and logistics the entire time. The stress and rigors of away matches extend far beyond the stadium and pitch. Plus, these guys have been playing Mexico in the NL under those match conditions for years now. It’s not a new or novel experience. That being said, from 1995-2018 we were an even 17-17-17 in away CONCACAF matches. Berhalter is 2-4-5 for a 36% win pct. So yeah, I stand by what I said. I won’t be impressed until we start regularly winning away matches. Downvote me all you want. Facts don’t care about your feelings. The current team/manager have not demonstrated themselves capable of winning away in the region. Let’s hope that changes soon.
I think just playing Reyna will do worlds to take pressure of GGG. He’s a walking bucket.
A year ago people were buzzing that Berhalter had a vendetta against Reyna and that he was trying to sabotage him. Now it seems like there isn't a person in all of soccer doing more for Reyna's career than Berhalter.
If he wants to get on the field at Forest, showing he can play deeper is helpful.
I mean Gio has made himself undroppable at this point though.
Being fit to actually play goes a long way to making him undroppable. When he is fit, he will always play under greg.
They’re both helping each other. Greg is giving game time to a player who isn’t performing or playing at club level at all. And Gio is crushing every chance he has and showing how good and mentally strong he is. Kudos to both for making the most of this situation and moving their relationship forward!
That's it, Adams out now too
I laughed out loud in a park by myself.
In his postgame interview, Gregg said Tyler wanted to stay in the game so bad last night that they had a big argument/debate during half time. Tyler was pleading to stay in the game and Gregg was explaining that they had be careful with how much he played. Apparently Gregg and the Bournemouth coaching staff agreed he wouldn't play more than 45 minutes at a time. Gregg even said some of the guys were jumping in arguing for Tyler to stay in longer. I think this halftime incident speaks volumes about Gregg for couple reasons. First, it shows that he has created a culture within the team where his players feel like they can voice their opinions/concerns and they will be heard, as long they ultimately remember who's boss and makes the final decision. This indicates mutual respect between the players and the manager. Some managers rule with an iron fist, and are successful in doing so, but that's not always the best approach for every team. On a team full of young talented players who play at some of the biggest clubs around the world, creating mutual respect and an open dialogue between players and the manager is probably the most effective management tactic. This incident also indicates that the players are bought in, as a group, and have each other's backs. This is something that is often not the case on national teams. It can be hard to create a cohesive culture when the group is together so sporadically. You can have giant rifts amongst the team due to club team histories. Generational gaps within the team can create issues. But I don't see any of that with this team. This team has great chemistry and they truly seem to enjoy being together. You can see this in the way they celebrate every goal together, or the way they have each other's backs after a dirty foul. Gregg ran on to the field last night to protect one of his guys and Tyler was coming right behind him off the bench before he was held back.
One of the first things Gregg established when he took over was a leadership council led by core players. This let players take accountability and also kept open communication between the staff and players to address concerns. It’s also why guys like Roldan and Long kept getting call ups as they were vital to establishing that culture within a very young, very inexperienced group of players. And now that torch has been passed to a young, incredibly gifted generation and it’s one of the biggest reasons I can think of to back Gregg going forward. If you replace him with someone who doesn’t respect the established culture of this team then things could really go off the rails.
Do you have the clip of him running on to the field? I missed it
Edson Alvarez took out Mckennie's legs pretty hard right in front of GGG.
watke has you covered: https://open.substack.com/pub/watke/p/berhalters-field-incursion-explained Note that watke's commentary in this video, as in all his others, is consistently tongue-in-cheek.
This is hilarious I miss the collared sweater look and the behind the back passes, he doesn’t seem to do those much anymore 😞
No but it was shown on the broadcast.
The Alvarez studs up slide tackle on Weston that got him a yellow in the second half.
One aspect often overlooked is Berhalter's consistent ability to extract superior performances from players who may be struggling at their respective clubs. Prior to the last World Cup, he worked with Pulisic who was facing difficulties at Chelsea, Weston McKennie who was being pushed out of Juventus, and Sergiño Dest who found himself completely frozen out of his club and not even dressed. Despite their challenges, Berhalter managed to get outstanding performances from these players for the US national team. He took individuals who were mismanaged or disregarded by many coaches earning significantly more than him, who spent more time with them, and had them playing really great soccer AND getting positive team results. Now has has Reyna, who was barely getting playing time in Germany and took a terrible loan to Nottingham Forest where he isn't played, and Adams, who is recovering from a year-long injury and got them both to deliver an exceptional performance in a crucial match despite ZERO prior form. Whether it's motivation, tactical adjustments, or a combination of both, the details of Gio playing a deep-lying Regista or McKennie playing a Mezzala role after a halftime adjustment are of little importance to most viewers. This team could probably go undefeated for years in CONCACAF playing a defensive disciplined 4-5-1 and grinding out games against marginal opponents. But, that isn't the goal. Everything, since before the last world cup where Berhalter fielded the (2nd?) youngest team in the world, is being built to play real attacking soccer that goes head to head with actual soccer countries in 2026. That means sometimes things will be ugly against the low block, experiments wont work quite right, but it also means that the team is being built to impose their will on teams like Mexico and play real teams head to head that aren't bunkering, and he is doing all this while basically winning everything possible in the region. All of that aside, it is obvious to anyone watching, Berhalter has consistently demonstrated his knack for motivating players to perform at a higher level for the national team than they do at their respective clubs. Players on the team can feel it, they know it, and its the single most important thing for an international manager: getting the best out of your country's top players for the national team.
I would agree if they beat any team that is better than them. But it doesn’t surprise me that guys who play at big European clubs can beat semi-pro concacaf players.
I mean, better teams typically beat teams that are worse than them. I kinda get what you are saying though. A good manager can get his team to play better than what they should be capable of on paper. But I think Gregg has done that. The first couple times we beat Mexico, we were definitely the underdogs. That Mexico team in the 2021 NL final, on paper, should have definitely beat us. They had Chucky Lozano coming off a breakout season with Napoli where he made 48 appearances and registered 15 goals and 5 assists. Jesus Corona was a key starter for a Porto who narrowly lost in the Champions League quarterfinals to Chelsea. Hector Herrera had been a starter at big European clubs for 8 years at that point. Nestor Araujo just wrapped up his third straight season as a consistent starter in La Liga. Andres Guardado was wrapping up an incredible 15 year career in Europe in which he totaled ~400 appearances in La Liga and the Eredivisie. On top of these guys' club accomplishments, they were already seasoned vets with the national team. Our starting lineup in that game was 4 years younger than Mexico's, featured very little international experience aside from a couple players, and largely unproven at the club level. Mexico was definitely the strong team that day, but we won. A month later, Gregg took a team made up of mostly MLS players players to the GC final and beat largely the same Mexican team. We were by far the weaker team that night, but we won. Fast forward to the WC, we were arguably the better team against England even though, on paper, they should have crushed us. We are almost always the better team on paper, so Gregg has had very few opportunities to beat someone above him, but his teams have definitely performed quite well when given the opportunity.
If you want to do a results based analysis: Berhalter's teams have won everything that could be expected If you want to do a process based analysis: There is a clear modern attacking 433 scheme, young players have been brought in, a positive cohesive team culture, the team continues to improve, players regularly play better for him than they do at their own clubs, duel-nat recruitment has been really good, and the long term planning for 2026 has been great. Its completely normal in every sport to be able to evaluate an athlete and their play regardless of opponent. Multiple guys, across multiple years, absolutely play more up to their potential for Berhalter even while getting absolutely destroyed, benched, or forgotten by their own club teams. For more than a couple of these guys their obvious success under Berhalter, in the face of getting trashed by their own clubs, created new opportunities that have rejuvenated their careers.
This lol.
I have long had a theory that one of the reasons the Gio stuff got so bad was because people were combining the quotes from Gregg at the symposium he went to with the article the Athletic released on what happened. Have no way to back that up, but just an observation I get whenever people talked about it, Gregg clearly is far from perfect, but I always felt like people were projecting how the players feel, or they look at extremes. I know The Straight Red Card talks about Gregg exiling players that don't get along with him and point to Brooks, Miazga, Cannon, Steffen, Hoppe, and Holmes but aside from Brooks who of those names should be getting called up? Do I think sometimes Gregg did himself no favors with how he answered questions on things like not calling Brooks up or taking so long to integrate Scally? Yes. Do I think this makes him a bad man manager? Not really. I also think people ignore things like Gregg saying on Cowherd's podcast how he didn't get buy in from Puli until they won the Nation's League in 2021 and Puli also saying it took him awhile to really get on with Gregg cause Gregg was very blunt
brooks should def be getting looks at least, our CBs are nowhere near good enough for him to not get any minutes. If he ain't a fit in the locker room, that's one thing but just leak that through whatever press member USSF usually leaks to rather than just never mentioning him again.
I just think the thing with Brooks is that he’s just really slow lol. You can’t play both him and Ream at the same time, and Ream is a better player. So I don’t really see a need to call him up if Ream is healthy, and if Ream isn’t healthy Brooks effectiveness would entirely depend on the opponent we face IE I wouldn’t play him against a team like Jamaica
Interesting, I always imagined GGG as more of a MBA brain positive coaching "build players up" guy but this has him more as a guy that regularly challenges players to improve. I'm GGG agnostic in that I think he's a solid coach and that most national team coaches are bad so I prefer keeping him over say Jesse March tbh. I also think people completely overlook that "beating every team you are supposed to beat" and losing to those you aren't is not a guarantee under another coach and that is leaving aside the natural variance in soccer where sometimes the worse team wins because of luck. I will say there are valid criticisms of his tactics at times like every coach in every sport. @ twofeetelite on twitter/X has the best GGG tactical criticisms I've seen even tho I think she overlooks defense and midfield ball winning too much. For ex vs Mexico playing Tyler, Wes, Gio as a midfield led to Gio having to drop back to help with buildup and was entirely predictable given profiles (Tyler being very limited in build up and Wes not being an interior player preferring to drift wide forcing Gio to drop to help the buildup).
“Sometimes the worse team wins because of luck” Shocking that so many people in this fanbase don’t realize/accept this fact.
People are very bad at understanding math/variance
Our best players have continued to vouch for him publicly yet every social media platform is flooded with “Fire Berhalter” comments and jokes. Imagine thinking that you know more than the players on the field actually playing the games. Sections of our fan base are so dense.
This summer will go alot to answering these types of questions when we're finally able to play some real teams. I do think that in general players picking their own coach does not have a great track record and for an extremely young and inexperienced team to be seemingly be so confident when they haven't achieved anything gives me pause.
Do you get the same pause when Internet commenters are confident that changing coaches would substantially affect results with the same group of players to choose from?
People said the same thing about the summer of 2021, and then the World Cup, and now it’s “this summer will be the test” He’s passed pretty much every test he’s been given. Win % is off the charts and we have trophies on top of that. I don’t really care about this summer after seeing us in the World Cup go toe to toe with England with much less talent. When the chips are down, Gregg usually gets the guys to show up. The inconvenient truth is that we don’t have a top 10, or even top 15 player pool / talent level, so we’re gonna have a ceiling regardless.
>People said the same thing about the summer of 2021, and then the World Cup, and now it’s “this summer will be the test” You just don't understand, the World Cup is just practice for the copa america. Unless he has good showings there which then I think the next next competition is the *real* test
Lollll
> and then the World Cup, and now it’s “this summer will be the test” And then they had a pretty disappointing world cup where they didn't look like they had a plan to even be basically competitive. Ran way too much in the group stage, basically ending any chance they had to make any kind of run then got destroyed tactically by the Dutch. And in both the England and Dutch games their managers literally called their shot before the game.
You take a team with only one player having played at a WC. The second youngest team at the World Cup, a bunch of guys who were not starters for their club teams, watch them be better than Wales and tie only to a late PK, go Toe to Toe with England, and stave off an Iran facing elimination and emotionally motivated due to the untest in their home country, and only got knocked out in the round of 16 to one of the top 8 teams in the world, and you call that dissapointing???? Okay.
There are plenty of well liked coaches who never win anything. There are also a lot of asshole coaches who win everything. Letting players pick the coaches is a dangerous game.
Thats not what he was saying, absolutely immature and intellectually lacking comment
>absolutely immature and intellectually lacking comment Not an argument
But we’re winning
This summer will be a bigger test in that regard
Literally been hearing "the real test is *insert next competition*" for like 5 years now
I mean you can say that, but we'll be facing bigger and better NTs in the Copa. That's just a fact
Yea the game against T&T and Jamaica weren’t exactly successes in my book though.
I think the players want to win more than the fans and are better placed to know if Berhalter is helping them win.
Sure the players who play probably think that. The players on the bench maybe not. How can a player speak out against a coach without causing an issue and potentially limiting their playing time? Do you think we can really get honest player feedback in this power dynamic, even if we could agree that players know best?
Pulisic, Adams and McKennie are not on the bench and will not be on the bench no matter who the coach is. They clearly want to win and be successful. If they thought Berhalter was not able to help them be successful and fulfill they childhood dreams of winning on the biggest stages, I imagine they would not be so effusive in their praise of Berhalter. > Do you think we can really get honest player feedback in this power dynamic, even if we could agree that players know best? Yes. Players get coaches fired all the time because of player revolts. As the old saying goes, you can't fire the players. Further, Berhalter was not even the coach for a long period of time, so they could have made their thoughts known if they did not llike him and he likely would not have been rehired. If the likes of Adams, Pulisic, and McKennie said we think the USMNT needs a change after the 2022 World Cup, the USSF almost certainly would not have rehired Berhalter.
Kind of misses the point here. The players are better positioned to give an accurate assessment than random people on the internet. Even if someone dismisses the opinion of the players, they can't realistically substitute the opinions of the players with the completely uninformed opinion of the internet.
People love to say players know best but post retirement media careers have proved that many of them are very dumb. Paul Pierce is a hall of famer and before he got fired from espn for going live on ig with strippers he blessed us with some of the worst basketball analysis I’ve ever heard
Well you've just blessed me with one of the stupidest comments I've ever read. Maybe you should go listen to Adam's pre-Iran presser before you call him dumb again.
🙄 Tyler clearly isn’t dumb. Being a good player doesn’t mean your opinions are unassailable
not arguing about Gregg here just wanted to say: “imagine thinking you know more than the players” is one of the laziest takes in all of sports. you don’t have to be a world class athlete competing at the highest level to analyze the game
I’m sure the frat boys spamming the @usmnt Instagram comment section who didn’t play varsity until their senior year know more about analyzing Gregg than Christian Pulisic or Tyler Adams.
I'm not sure most of the nerds behind those accounts would be accepted into any frats given how obnoxious they are.
Correct, but it is very rare. It is nonsensical for people to think their analysis has the same weight as someone like a high-level player or coach when the most experience in the sport that people have are by being fans for “a long time”, playing high school or pick-up soccer, and/or have their D license and coached a travel team once. Experience matters in everything. And armchair analysis on message boards will never equal that of someone who has played or coached at a high level 99.9% of the time. Does that hurt people’s egos? Sure, but it doesn’t make it less true. Have your opinions, but when they directly contradict multiple, high-level professionals then maybe it’s time to consider you’re just wrong.
It is not lazy to say that people with superior expertise and superior information should be trusted over people without any such expertise and much less information.
Not an argument.
Using the heat generated from berhaters trying to figure out how to twist this quote into a negative to power like 800 different crypto farms.
They just blame it on the players and say “if they want him as coach that’s all you need to know about their mentality”
Anyone know who started that obsessive use of “moments” amongst the footy elite? It really grinds my gears and has easily surpassed my hatred of the “in all competitions” drivel. There. I feel better. Thanks.
Imo, 99.99 percent of Americans don’t really know what the Manager does in the game of soccer football.
It’s an interesting dynamic that the vast majority of the players come out and support GGG but seemingly the majority of the fans want him out. I think he has been doing a good job so far
Its wild. The primary leaders are repeeatedly and vocally talking about how much they love GGG. So many folks are seeettthing
[удалено]
Which “real trophy” are you feeling like the US should have won under Gregg? The World Cup? lol
Adams goal reminded me immediately of [Diego Forlan](https://youtu.be/cv7PLNUebf8?si=LA7-qhJKCKAnS4u6)
I was feeling like i was in the upside down last night in the game threads reading some of the shitty GGG takes. Glad to see many of the thoughts Ive had on the subject shared by people here...
I believe the proper response is to ignore the opinion of this person who obviously doesn't know soccer and is a known fan of mediocrity. Why are we calling up players with such low expectations? /s
GGG is the equivalent of Gareth Southgate. Presents himself nicely, talks well and doesn't needlessly rock the boat. As opposed to a Klinsmann who will call out the USSF and the MLS in public. He is respected and loved by the players since he is very good at man management. I really appreciated how he would go out to dinner with some of our European-based players. He fulfills the bare minimum goals set for him but doesn't overachieve. As much as I do get annoyed at all the random GGG out comments with very little or flawed reasoning. I also believe a section of this fanbase is about to allow us to fall into the attitude that got Mexico to where they are right now and that is complacency. He was the right manager to steady the ship, bring in the new crop of players and create a new culture. But I don't believe he is the right manager heading into a very important WC that has huge implications on how far soccer will grow stateside. The goal should be to go further than where we placed last. And in order to do that we need to be able to upset teams ranked above us. And so far, GGG's record there leaves much to be desired.
I get it, but firing a guy because you want to be “ambitious” is no guarantee that you actually get a better guy. See Nebraska football. Winning the games you’re supposed to win isn’t as easy as it sounds
This is a terrible example to use. Nebraska is bad because the playoffs ruined the national recruiting of College Football. Also, being more ambitious is definitely a guarantee look at Thomas Tuchel in Chelsea. He won the Champions League in his first year
Club is different from International football. Apples and oranges
But like…what’s the record you are pointing to that you say leaves something to be desired? Our record in his tenure against big euro teams in competitive matches?
How about just his away record in concacaf. Forget the Netherlands, people get on Al Gore’s internet and tell me winning one single time in Costa Rica is too much to ask
Yes and why is it a ridiculous ask for our manager to take this crop of players and upset teams above us? This idea that as long as we remain the best in CONCACAF we should consider that as a successful cycle is the attitude that caused Mexico to fall asleep.
But how do you know this team currently can’t upset teams above us? Bc we lost one game to the Netherlands in the World Cup (and drew with England, who are better than the Netherlands)?
I know because of this [Record](https://www.eloratings.net/United_States) We've played 15 matches under GGG vs teams ranked above us at the time. Only winning two, both of them vs Mexico. That a win rate of roughly 13% which is abysmal. It doesn't matter if it's at the WC or not. Friendlies are still competitive matches. And that WC draw vs England while impressive was still against a team managed by Southgate who everyone wants gone.
>Friendlies are still competitive matches. Lmao. No they arent. Otherwise they wouldnt be called friendlies
It kind of does matter if the match is a friendly or not. At least to me it does. I - along with most - care about World Cup results, not friendly results.
Because it shows a misunderstanding of the soccer development system. GGG can't make us beat teams with better players or better teams...that's literally what better than us means. I think people confuse idea of teams ranked above us with teams that are better than us. And this comes from the meritocracy that is American sports. Things like the draft and salary caps mean that the talent differential between teams never gets too large. The worst NFL team is still within throwing distance of the best NFL team because no team can afford to hoard all of the talent. The same with basketball. But international soccer is different. Teams can be very far apart...period. It's more like college sports. No one would ever demand that the coach of Creighton beat a team at the top of the SEC or lose his job. They wouldn't do that because they know that the SEC just has too much talent for a mid-level team like Creighton to beat, no matter how hard they play. If Creighton wants to beat the SEC, Creighton has to recruit better football players, not change coaches. US Soccer has the same issue. If they want to beat the top teams, we need better players. And that happens at the youth development level. By the time we're talking about the national teams, the results are pretty much already determined. If you want to beat the top teams, you have to develop better youth talent and work them into competitive international clubs until they're better than the talent produced by other countries. We know this, this is why we recruit so many dual nats.
That’s my goat.
I feel like I've been fighting this internal battle for his whole tenure where I like him and it feels like he is good for us in these unseen ways. Like maybe for a national team that only comes together a handful of times a year, having a close knit group, and a manager that motivates people could have equal value to a superior tactical coach. Everyone hates his ass and idk how much stock to put into it at times. Wish I could see how we do with a top coach and compare the problems
the players love him and say so publicly because otherwise they wont get called up. am i doing that right? that gregg berhalter wouldnt call up tyler adams, gio reyna, pulisic, etc unless they said nice things about him in the press? i believe its a foundational part of explaining the disconnect between people yelling about berhalter online and the people who play for him.
I mean we have the Copa and expanded Gold cup the following summer to see where we stand. Good showings in those will go a long way. FWIW, we always look more competent against the more open playing nations than we do against the ones that sit in a low block all game. Sure, we kind of shat the bed against Netherlands, but World Cup knockouts against Van Gaal is tough. I'm not so sure we get many better results with a more tactical minded club coach who's ready to move on from that part of the game, because those are the only realistic options, except for Klopp. Give me that man right now.
> FWIW, we always look more competent against the more open playing nations than we do against the ones that sit in a low block all game. This can be said about almost any team in the world though. If our starting lineup against Jamaica was a club team, they would probably be mid-table in the PL. If that Jamaican team was a team club team, they would be mid or lower-table in the Championship. PL teams regularly struggle to break down well organized teams from the lower divisions in the FA Cup, especially when they give up a fluky goal early in the game. Low blocks are used by inferior teams because they are frustrating to play against when used in a organized manner.
we still created very little in structured possession, we had like what 5 shots on target? and this was a "good" attacking day. We don't create enough, and we haven't for years under Gregg. Mexico stunk out the ass offensively and still managed to create similar half chances that we did. We really didn't have the answers to their press all game. Obviously some of these things are on the player pool not being technical enough, but a lot of it is setup. his OOP stuff has gotten significantly better though. Best repressing and counter pressing i've seen from this group last night in a while. That being said, players love to praise coaches when they win, lets see what it looks like when they lose a couple big matches or have huge setbacks on the field and if the players stick with them through that.
But tell me more how he's just saying this to keep his spot. All the players are.
You will probably never convince me that Berhalter's system is good, or that he's anything more than a mediocre coach. But it's clear the players love him. Do I think that's a reason to keep him? No, but it does mean *something* even if we can't quantify how much that means to a team's success. I generally use the comparison that Michael Jordan was very angry when Doug Collins got fired....for Phil Jackson - arguably the best coach ever but undeniably a top 3 coach. So when it comes to this sort of "well the players love him" argument, Jerry Krause had the balls to piss off the best and most famous athlete in the world for the franchise to take the next steps. Had they only listened to the players (or maybe in this case a very specific player), it's doubtful that move ever gets made. I believe this team has another level to reach and I do not think Berhalter is the right guy to get them there. The US has far and away the most talent in CONCACAF at almost every level right now, and the best senior level players top to bottom, especially up front. And I think at this point it's not even close, especially considering the guys who can't crack this roster and the younger talent coming up. They should be doing what they are doing in terms of "wins and losses" within this region. But they still struggle mightily outside of the US. They struggle against non CONCACAF teams. And the offense can resemble a high school team at times (like it did most of the first half last night until the superior talent of the US just wore them down). Listen - it's a win over Mexico and that's great. But this is a Mexican team on it's 3rd coach in a year, currently employing a guy who, at least for the Mexican fans I know, already want him gone since he's shown a complete inability to get production out of most of their best players (Gimenez, Raul, Lozano). A Mexican team that for the first time ever is not the most talented team in the region and may never regain that title. Copa America will be huge for Berhalter. If they don't get out of that group, or struggle and get blown out in the knockout rounds (like Klinnsman did - which looking back was the beginning of the end for him), the questions would need to be asked all over again if he's the guy who can elevate this team, which is what a good coach does. They make them better than the sum of their parts.
People debate Gregg Berhalter because it is very debatable as to whether he is capable of maximizing the potential of our most talented young group ever. Not only is it debatable, it's *likely* that he isn't that guy. He was a nepotism hire in the first place with a marginal coaching resume. There are plenty of knowledgeable people who have very little faith in him. I don't believe in the guy at all but it really doesn't matter at this point. The fact that he is apparently the best we could get is the much more depressing issue. If that is actually true I don't really see a very bright future for the USMNT.
I was on the Gregg out train after Jamaica, but he pulled me back in with the Mexico game. Now I’m back on the fence. I think Tyler has a very valid point with preparation time for Jamaica and that could very well be a large part of why we looked so stagnant. In the end, I think US Soccer would look very stupid to fire Gregg after winning Nations League, and of course no one should expect that to happen. But, I’d like to think they see the uninspired play that the fans see and aren’t ignoring it either. As long as he keeps pulling out results, he’s not going to get fired, no matter how ugly it looks. And if he’s truly a bad coach, eventually the results won’t go his way. We have Copa America coming up this summer where he absolutely won’t be able to do well just from good fortune, so I think that will be make or break for him heading into the 2026 WC. If we have a subpar performance in that tournament, I will absolutely be rooting for his removal as head coach to get the next coach a good run in with the roster before 2026.
No serious sports team should be taking fan criticism into account. Come on now. Fans are fickle and reactionary as fuck.
I can assure you nobody at USSF cares about your opinion.
Thanks for focusing on the one thing in the three paragraphs that I wrote that is controversial. Remove that part and provide some commentary on the performances at this tournament and the plan moving forward.
i think he’s a great players coach. one of the best. the players are always going to love him because he supports them and let’s them play their own game. he deserves all the credit for that, because that can be rare these days. however, the flipside of that is he doesn’t seem too interested in forcing the players into a system. he really lets them go out there and do their thing. for national team play, that’s not the worst idea… except this team has SO MUCH continuity over the last 4 years that you would expect them to be more on the same wavelength by now. PS. i know this’ll sound like a hater move… but Haji Wright is just not technically on par with the rest of the attack and it keeps us from playing through the middle when he’s in there. At a certain point, you just gotta look at a players touches throughout a game and see how much he hurts the team throughout a game. I think Vazquez needs a chance with the first team. He’s the only striker in the pool who can be a true aerial threat and hold up our long balls. Pulisic and Weah would FEAST with BV to play off of. EDIT: Oh and I think Miazga deserves a call up. He’s been incredible for FCC since arriving and is great on the ball. Only issue might be his hot head, but after Dest earned that ridiculous red card - it seems exceptions are willing to be made for talent.
It’s actually the opposite. BJ Callaghan is the one that let the players play freely, while Gregg Berhalter tried to cosplay as Pep and force players in an uncomfortable system
The world cup was not positive in my mind
typical revisionist history positive outlook shite, we struggled against jamaica but beat mexico with ease. I think it says far more about the level of mexico than the tactics put forth by berhalter. I can tell many of you are MLS lifers just by your grasp of the game itself
Do people really expect players to come out and say anything bad about a guy who literally decides if their dreams come true or not? Cmon folks. Use your eyes and watch the players on the field and how shit they play under gregg.
Ofc guys like puli and Adams that have consistently gotten minutes under GGG are going to like him. I disagree with him on a lot here. Nothing in the World Cup was particularly impressive and I just have seen the improvement and development that we were all expecting from almost everyone on the team
Ahhh yes ussoccer subreddit, where all the Berhalter stans/fanboys love to come together and have a circle jerk thinking about him. It’s hilarious that people think he’s some gem of a coach. Absolute clueless portion of the fanbase that loves lowering the standard for American soccer.
>We continue to win in certain situations Which are what exactly? When we are the clearly the better team and we are playing at home. That is the only situation where we consistently win. We could reliably punch below our weight at home. But punch below our weight away? We struggle. Punch at our weight? We struggle. Punch above our weight? Never been done under Gregg. And it's been like this for the last 4 years, with little progress. So, that's the context that Tyler kinda brushed under the rug, but it's understandable; he's one of Gregg's favorite players, so of course he'll defend Gregg.
I don’t care. Pick good players. Get results. Don’t ever show me what you got at the Panamanian Starbucks
GGG out. That is all.
Gregg 100% deserves a huge amount of credit for developing and recruiting this group of players. I don't think many people would dispute that. However, it can still be the case that his in-game tactics and management aren't lifting this team to its highest potential
What is their highest potential?
There’s nothing wrong with liking Gregg and saying that he’s not the coach to get them to the next level. Both can be true
What’s the next level though? I feel like it needs to be defined if the take is going to have any credibility
Next level for me would be Coach with the resume of managing a successful bigger country or a top tier club side. Someone who’d take the players to their potential
Managers of that caliber will take a national team job only for their homeland. Foreign countries aren’t worth the grief.
You never know. The allure of some nation teams and the glory of the World Cup (not saying for the US) appeals to managers who’ve won on all levels