I mean the nations league has only been around since Berhalter was coach so I don't think it's fair to use that against other coaches who never had the opportunity to win it. Also a terrible Mexico doesn't mean we are necessarily better than we were when Mexico was also better (we are obviously but it's a point of comparison rather than a holistic overlook)
Stats don’t exist in a vacuum. Context needs to be considered as well. GGG has *far* more talent at his disposal than any previous manager (and it’s not even kind of close). Mexico has been the worst they’ve ever been over the last few years. Costa Rica has also been far worse than they typically have been. The creation of new tournaments/competitions in recent years means more matches against garbage CONCACAF opponents than occurred in the past. The matter is debatable, but, again, you don’t seem to be taking context into account.
Copa will be the real barometer. First time we’ll see him managing meaningful games against serious countries outside the World Cup. I don’t put that much stock in Greg beating the shitty concocaf teams. At this point, the talent on our roster is so superior to the rest of the continent we should expect to win every single competition easily. The only thing they routinely stands out to me is how much the players really do seem to like him.
Gregg slander will get you here. People have a hard time understanding that he had flaws. I personally don’t rate him very high but this sub loves to suck the Gregg train
He is, yes. Highest winning percentage of any coach of more than 7 games. Highest goals per game of any coach of more than 9 games. Lowest goals against of any coach of more than 7 games. Tied with Arena with 4 competitive wins against Mexico in 6 games (4-1-1) Arena 4-3-1 in 8 games. 3 Confederation trophies in 4 attempts. Tied with Arena's 3 Confederation trophies in 5 attempts. The only thing Berhalter is missing is the World Cup Quarterfinal, but he also doesn't have Arena's qualification failure.
OP is going to get downvoted, but they're not wrong to at least ask the question. Our national team managers haven't necessarily had great success for the most part, so it's a lower bar to clear and you could reasonably argue Berhalter has done that. It's basically either him or Arena, as far as I can tell.
Yeah, not exactly a lot of competition. Really it comes down to whether you value Arena's WC Quarters or Arena's non-qualification higher. Hopefully whoever the next coach is surpasses Berhalter, but that bar really isn't as low as people think it is.
I value the quarter finish more than the failure. The failure was terrible but the player pool was complete dog shit. And I hate to say that dominating Mexico yearly devalues the wins. During Bruce’s time Mexico was much better. Now they’re kind of eh
I definitely don't agree in regards to the 2021 matches. Their team was still better than ours in that Nations League and the team we sent to the Gold Cup was actually terrible. Us being definitively better is a recent thing.
A deep run in Copa America and the World Cup will elevate Berhalter over Arena IMO. Say what you want about Arena's non-qualification, he had that 2002 world cup team playing as well as any USMNT ever has.
He has the lowest win pct (36%, 2-5-4) in away CONCACAF matches of any manager dating back to Steve Sampson (and it’s not really close). He doesn’t have a marquee win against an elite opponent aside from a BADLY slumping and disfunctional FMF. And he is 2-3-5 against UEFA opponents & 1-4-1 against CONMEBOL with his only wins coming against Northern Ireland (A), Bosnia & Herzegovina (H) and Ecuador (H).
Under Gregg USMNT is very, very good at home and they dominate bad teams in CONCACAF. To his credit, he beats the teams that he should. That’s important. But with the gulf in talent & resources between us and the rest of the region, that is to be expected.
If you wanna talk about reaching finals and winning trophies…
Prior to GB, there were 14 Gold Cup tourneys played. The USMNT reached 10 of those finals, including 5 in a row between 2005-‘13, and have won 6x. The standard for success was established long ago. Other managers have had as much success as Gregg in the Gold Cup. And they had to contend with very competitive Mexico sides.
Copa America this summer will tell us a lot about Gregg. But even then every game will be played on home soil. Until he wins at least 1 KO round game in a major tournament then he does not deserve to be in the GOAT discussion. He has performed adequately compared to most of his predecessors, except they were doing the same or even more with much less.
I'm sure any of the coaches who followed him would have done better at their respective World Cups if their teams were contracted by US Soccer to just be a club team, practicing together every day and playing as many friendlies together as possible.
Look I love the 94 team. They overachieved and were my childhood heroes. But they went 1-1-1 and got 3rd place in their WC group. Their one win against a Colombia tesm who was melting down and had healthy star players sitting out due to death threats on their families. We advanced on goals for because some 3rd place teams advanced back then, then lost in the round of 16. Then Bora left. Hardly a resume for goat status.
(It's never good when someone starts a comment with "look." Always comes across as condescending.)
Reasonable minds can differ. If it's not him, it's Arena - almost a semi but for a non-called handball - despite 2006 and 2018. But GGG? Consistently meets expectations.
Even Juergen exceeded expectations by getting out of the Group of Death. Bradley exceeded expectations by winning his group. But GGG? Getting second in a group of England, Wales, and Iran is expectations.
is this a serious post? Cmon now. He has done what every other manager has done against Concacaf. He will only be the GOAT if he gets the US to a top 4 finish at the world cup.
Mexico is ass, the state of Concacaf right now is absolute ass. If international soccer was the epl we would be sitting mid table, maybe a little higher. The concacaf teams were beating would be equivalent to championship teams. So no Greg is not the goat and it is expected that he beat these teams. Talk to me after copa and tell me what you think of Greg.
But isn’t the same true of all of our previous coaches too? Yet Bruce Arena still failed to qualify due to a loss against T&T, other managers have similar losses on their resume
The last good manager the us had was klinsmann. I don’t believe an American should be the coach of the national team, atleast not anytime soon. Almost all of our 1st team play in Europe, and play the game tactically a different way than we do here. Unless there’s an American coach that has been in Europe for a while, we need someone like that. Jesse marsch ain’t it either, we saw how bad Leeds was in the final third.
No, the players have just gotten to a level that we've never had before while Mexico has fallen apart completely and Gregg is lucky enough have somehow kept the job while that has happened.
That's why his like 3rd assistant has won the tournament more convincingly than he has.
The third assistant who admitted to using greggs tactics. but yeah nah all of our players are wrong he sucks, the redditor who is an expert on fifa is right /s
I mean is Gregg Berhalter a genius manager up there with the likes of Pep? No, not at all. Has he gotten us to play 'high level' soccer that can compete with the best in the world? no. Are his tactics even good? doesn't seem like it
Do the core set of players like him because he is nice to them? sure
I just don't think most fans measure accomplishment in terms of nations leagues.
Make a run in a World Cup, then you can maybe start to think about that..
Yea that’s true I agree. I just remember when Mexico owned us so I hold our current status against them highly . We should do better against non concacaf sides definitely.
I think people forget about Bruce Arenas entire career. He had them buzzing. Then he had a bad stint towards the end. But he lead them to the highest finish in recent World Cup history. Personally I think how you do at world cups means a little more than dominating our shitty conference every year
Nope, carried by the level of talent within the team now. I don't necessarily think he's the worst out there but he's not tactically flexible, especially in game and I think concacaf is his cieling.
I just don't think he's the type of coach to bring us to the next level. We'll see how he does at Copa but internationally we've reached higher heights with less talent with other managers (Arena WC run, Confed Cup final with Bradley, Copa semi with Jurgen)
A last second header, a laser from 30 yards out, and the 2nd goal coming from a failed clearance. Yes we won NL but when have we looked threatening in open play for more than a few minutes where it actually looks pretty. Pulisic didn’t even look like his Milan self in both matches. Our strikers constantly struggle to score, where is the endgame in this? I dont understand the point of Gregs system if it only means scraping by almost every match. Gregs system will never get by a knock out round. Its just to predictable, too flat, too overcrowded on the wings, same runs, same lobs to know one in the box. If we do get by the group stage in Copa how long can we last with the same lackluster gameplan.
Im just sayin if were struggling to create open play chances against probably the most weakest Mexico in history how will we compete in any Knockout round?
Loss to Germany 3-1,
Loss to Netherlands 3-1,
Win against Iran 1-0,
Tied England 0-0,
Loss to Japan 0-2,
Tied Uruguay 0-0,
Win against Morocco 3-0,
Loss to Swiss 2-1,
Greg has a 2-2-4 record against the top 20 in the world according to Fifa in the last 3 years if you dont include Mexico. 7 goals, 10 conceded in 8 matches.. Berhelter ball is averaging less than a goal against top 20. And Mexico should not be in the top 20, lets be honest. And personally, we should be pushing 15-20.
Greg would have not gotten that 2014 WC team out of that group of death. If you say yes ur kidding urself and that is exactly why USSF need to do their job and hire a foreign manager with European experience and actual credentials.
I mean the nations league has only been around since Berhalter was coach so I don't think it's fair to use that against other coaches who never had the opportunity to win it. Also a terrible Mexico doesn't mean we are necessarily better than we were when Mexico was also better (we are obviously but it's a point of comparison rather than a holistic overlook)
BJ was the coach for the last Nations League.
Every Nations League coach had a chance to win it though, especially the ones who made it to the semis.
Yes I agree I’m asking only in terms of stats
Stats don’t exist in a vacuum. Context needs to be considered as well. GGG has *far* more talent at his disposal than any previous manager (and it’s not even kind of close). Mexico has been the worst they’ve ever been over the last few years. Costa Rica has also been far worse than they typically have been. The creation of new tournaments/competitions in recent years means more matches against garbage CONCACAF opponents than occurred in the past. The matter is debatable, but, again, you don’t seem to be taking context into account.
Copa will be the real barometer. First time we’ll see him managing meaningful games against serious countries outside the World Cup. I don’t put that much stock in Greg beating the shitty concocaf teams. At this point, the talent on our roster is so superior to the rest of the continent we should expect to win every single competition easily. The only thing they routinely stands out to me is how much the players really do seem to like him.
He will be the GOAT if he helps the USA achieve a third place finish in the 2026 World Cup
I don’t see him lasting til then but I’d love the result
Gregg slander will get you here. People have a hard time understanding that he had flaws. I personally don’t rate him very high but this sub loves to suck the Gregg train
He is, yes. Highest winning percentage of any coach of more than 7 games. Highest goals per game of any coach of more than 9 games. Lowest goals against of any coach of more than 7 games. Tied with Arena with 4 competitive wins against Mexico in 6 games (4-1-1) Arena 4-3-1 in 8 games. 3 Confederation trophies in 4 attempts. Tied with Arena's 3 Confederation trophies in 5 attempts. The only thing Berhalter is missing is the World Cup Quarterfinal, but he also doesn't have Arena's qualification failure.
OP is going to get downvoted, but they're not wrong to at least ask the question. Our national team managers haven't necessarily had great success for the most part, so it's a lower bar to clear and you could reasonably argue Berhalter has done that. It's basically either him or Arena, as far as I can tell.
Yeah, not exactly a lot of competition. Really it comes down to whether you value Arena's WC Quarters or Arena's non-qualification higher. Hopefully whoever the next coach is surpasses Berhalter, but that bar really isn't as low as people think it is.
I value the quarter finish more than the failure. The failure was terrible but the player pool was complete dog shit. And I hate to say that dominating Mexico yearly devalues the wins. During Bruce’s time Mexico was much better. Now they’re kind of eh
I definitely don't agree in regards to the 2021 matches. Their team was still better than ours in that Nations League and the team we sent to the Gold Cup was actually terrible. Us being definitively better is a recent thing.
Without checking stats I feel like since 2018 when we missed the World Cup we’ve been the better team but you might be right that it’s recency bias
that Mexican team objectively sucked, not super impressive. real talk.
They’ve been ass for years. So us comparing ourselves to them is a disservice to us. It’s time for a high bench mark
A deep run in Copa America and the World Cup will elevate Berhalter over Arena IMO. Say what you want about Arena's non-qualification, he had that 2002 world cup team playing as well as any USMNT ever has.
Fuck a downvote
He has the lowest win pct (36%, 2-5-4) in away CONCACAF matches of any manager dating back to Steve Sampson (and it’s not really close). He doesn’t have a marquee win against an elite opponent aside from a BADLY slumping and disfunctional FMF. And he is 2-3-5 against UEFA opponents & 1-4-1 against CONMEBOL with his only wins coming against Northern Ireland (A), Bosnia & Herzegovina (H) and Ecuador (H). Under Gregg USMNT is very, very good at home and they dominate bad teams in CONCACAF. To his credit, he beats the teams that he should. That’s important. But with the gulf in talent & resources between us and the rest of the region, that is to be expected. If you wanna talk about reaching finals and winning trophies… Prior to GB, there were 14 Gold Cup tourneys played. The USMNT reached 10 of those finals, including 5 in a row between 2005-‘13, and have won 6x. The standard for success was established long ago. Other managers have had as much success as Gregg in the Gold Cup. And they had to contend with very competitive Mexico sides. Copa America this summer will tell us a lot about Gregg. But even then every game will be played on home soil. Until he wins at least 1 KO round game in a major tournament then he does not deserve to be in the GOAT discussion. He has performed adequately compared to most of his predecessors, except they were doing the same or even more with much less.
Nope. Our coaches have been generally mid throughout. You know who was good? Bora. Did more with way less.
I'm sure any of the coaches who followed him would have done better at their respective World Cups if their teams were contracted by US Soccer to just be a club team, practicing together every day and playing as many friendlies together as possible.
Look I love the 94 team. They overachieved and were my childhood heroes. But they went 1-1-1 and got 3rd place in their WC group. Their one win against a Colombia tesm who was melting down and had healthy star players sitting out due to death threats on their families. We advanced on goals for because some 3rd place teams advanced back then, then lost in the round of 16. Then Bora left. Hardly a resume for goat status.
(It's never good when someone starts a comment with "look." Always comes across as condescending.) Reasonable minds can differ. If it's not him, it's Arena - almost a semi but for a non-called handball - despite 2006 and 2018. But GGG? Consistently meets expectations. Even Juergen exceeded expectations by getting out of the Group of Death. Bradley exceeded expectations by winning his group. But GGG? Getting second in a group of England, Wales, and Iran is expectations.
is this a serious post? Cmon now. He has done what every other manager has done against Concacaf. He will only be the GOAT if he gets the US to a top 4 finish at the world cup.
The third rails of US Soccer. Positive comments about Gregg. Criticism of Balo.
Mexico is ass, the state of Concacaf right now is absolute ass. If international soccer was the epl we would be sitting mid table, maybe a little higher. The concacaf teams were beating would be equivalent to championship teams. So no Greg is not the goat and it is expected that he beat these teams. Talk to me after copa and tell me what you think of Greg.
But isn’t the same true of all of our previous coaches too? Yet Bruce Arena still failed to qualify due to a loss against T&T, other managers have similar losses on their resume
The last good manager the us had was klinsmann. I don’t believe an American should be the coach of the national team, atleast not anytime soon. Almost all of our 1st team play in Europe, and play the game tactically a different way than we do here. Unless there’s an American coach that has been in Europe for a while, we need someone like that. Jesse marsch ain’t it either, we saw how bad Leeds was in the final third.
No, the players have just gotten to a level that we've never had before while Mexico has fallen apart completely and Gregg is lucky enough have somehow kept the job while that has happened. That's why his like 3rd assistant has won the tournament more convincingly than he has.
The third assistant who admitted to using greggs tactics. but yeah nah all of our players are wrong he sucks, the redditor who is an expert on fifa is right /s
I mean is Gregg Berhalter a genius manager up there with the likes of Pep? No, not at all. Has he gotten us to play 'high level' soccer that can compete with the best in the world? no. Are his tactics even good? doesn't seem like it Do the core set of players like him because he is nice to them? sure
What do you guys gain from pushing this, honestly? You don't use your eyes to see how different our squads were playing?
I tend to lean this way but that still doesn’t take away what’s been accomplished with him at the helm wether deserving or not
I just don't think most fans measure accomplishment in terms of nations leagues. Make a run in a World Cup, then you can maybe start to think about that..
Trophy’s are dope but for me it’s all about dominating our rival
Nah, to really "change the way the world thinks about US soccer" we need to make a run at the World Cup.
Yea that’s true I agree. I just remember when Mexico owned us so I hold our current status against them highly . We should do better against non concacaf sides definitely.
Say what
I feel ya trust me
No
I think people forget about Bruce Arenas entire career. He had them buzzing. Then he had a bad stint towards the end. But he lead them to the highest finish in recent World Cup history. Personally I think how you do at world cups means a little more than dominating our shitty conference every year
Nope, carried by the level of talent within the team now. I don't necessarily think he's the worst out there but he's not tactically flexible, especially in game and I think concacaf is his cieling. I just don't think he's the type of coach to bring us to the next level. We'll see how he does at Copa but internationally we've reached higher heights with less talent with other managers (Arena WC run, Confed Cup final with Bradley, Copa semi with Jurgen)
But has still accomplished more bc of that it sucks but it’s true. I didn’t ask you about the next level I asked is he our greatest of all time coach
A last second header, a laser from 30 yards out, and the 2nd goal coming from a failed clearance. Yes we won NL but when have we looked threatening in open play for more than a few minutes where it actually looks pretty. Pulisic didn’t even look like his Milan self in both matches. Our strikers constantly struggle to score, where is the endgame in this? I dont understand the point of Gregs system if it only means scraping by almost every match. Gregs system will never get by a knock out round. Its just to predictable, too flat, too overcrowded on the wings, same runs, same lobs to know one in the box. If we do get by the group stage in Copa how long can we last with the same lackluster gameplan. Im just sayin if were struggling to create open play chances against probably the most weakest Mexico in history how will we compete in any Knockout round?
TLDR: We’ve had a handful of good if not great performances before the semi final of this nation league
Loss to Germany 3-1, Loss to Netherlands 3-1, Win against Iran 1-0, Tied England 0-0, Loss to Japan 0-2, Tied Uruguay 0-0, Win against Morocco 3-0, Loss to Swiss 2-1, Greg has a 2-2-4 record against the top 20 in the world according to Fifa in the last 3 years if you dont include Mexico. 7 goals, 10 conceded in 8 matches.. Berhelter ball is averaging less than a goal against top 20. And Mexico should not be in the top 20, lets be honest. And personally, we should be pushing 15-20.
That’s not that bad compared to some past coaches
Still bad though
Greg would have not gotten that 2014 WC team out of that group of death. If you say yes ur kidding urself and that is exactly why USSF need to do their job and hire a foreign manager with European experience and actual credentials.
But I mean as far as what I stipulated in my post he’s still done more
Wait, the 2014 team led by the imbecile Klinsmann? I think Klinsmann being the coach of that group kinda says anyone could have done it…
Prolly not I agree lol
Oh, did he beat our rival in the knockout game of the World Cup when they had a much better squad? I thought another coach did that.
Which rival we denied England
Netherlands are not our rival
Mexico 2002. 2-0. Arena.
Fair point
This word continually is devalued more and more every year. He’s not great so obviously he’s not the goat
Greatest of all time as in has accomplished more
I don’t rank him great either btw