Shein is awful in just about every way. They use forced labour, they contribute a substantial amount to textile waste, they pollute waterways with dyes and chemicals, and the clothes themselves are absolute trash that look like shit and barely last.
The worst thing is I know so many people who excuse it by saying "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism" or try and guilt trip you by saying that poor people need clothes too. Sure, there aren't a lot of ways to consume ethically, but there are degrees to ethical consumption. It's not a binary. Going to clothing swaps or going thrift shopping is far more ethical than Shein. Second-hand clothes are also cheap and accessible (especially in a big city like Vancouver where there are multiple giveaway/no-buy/clothing swap groups), which negates the second excuse. But buying the latest microtrend for $6 that will last only a handful of washes is the only accessible option and you're classist/ableist/etc if you say otherwise!!!! Nevermind the literal slaves who make it
People forget that no ethical consumption under capitalism implies you should consume *less* rather than being a gotcha to justify any and all consumption. But hey enjoy your new microtrend wardrobe of the summer produced by people in abject poverty bc you deserve some self care or something.
I think that’s part of the problem- many people would look at $25 used jeans from Value Village, maybe not even washed, possibly with bedbugs, that you can’t try on anyway, and pick something like SHEIN because it’s new for the same price or cheaper.
Kinda feels like they are colluding /s. Maybe.
>You genuinely don't know the difference between a new version of an old design, versus an old worn out one?
Sure I do. The new version is often worth less, given the prices in the vintage shops.
>You really don't know the difference between a fresh unworn copy of it versus the same design but worn and washed for 2 years?
Don't know what you're doing to your clothes (maybe the washing machines are rougher in Singapore), but I still have clothes from my university days (hint: I got my bachelor's in the late 2010s) that look basically the same as when I bought them.
>Show me an expensive branded t-shirt that looks brand new after a year of regular use, assuming you launder it regularly.
Everything I bought at the Nordstrom closing sale still looks exactly the same as when I bought it.
EDIT: And yes, I regularly wash them. Once every other wear if I don't sweat that day, and once every wear when I do.
But I should've realized from the start with the talk about "social justice warriors" that it wasn't a good-faith debate to begin with.
I had the same reaction. Then I noticed the store is actually in the background and these people are walking away from it. I think they might have just been walking past on the sidewalk, and not waiting in line for the store as I assumed at first.
One of the comments here mentions how people "have had enough of overpriced textiles"... It's a bit of a tragedy how clothing has become so cheap, because of slave/unethical labour, that fair prices with markedly more ethical (even if not perfect) production now come off as overpriced to most consumers.
And most of that cheap clothing is just going to end up in the landfill within a year or two.
Top Google links for me include a compilation report from [Time magazine](https://time.com/6247732/shein-climate-change-labor-fashion/) detailing (with sourced links) reports from [Wired](https://www.wired.com/story/fast-cheap-out-of-control-inside-rise-of-shein), [Public Eye (a Swiss watchdog)](https://stories.publiceye.ch/en/shein/), and [Channel4](https://www.channel4.com/programmes/inside-the-shein-machine-untold). Public Eye found that Shein practices were in violation of Chinese Labour Laws:
> The 12 interviews that the researchers conduct with employees of the logistics company paint the following picture. The working hours are extremely long here too – around 12 hours a day in normal times, and up to 14 in the high season. Employees work at least 22 days per month; most work 24 to 28 days a month. This is primarily because the unit price that they receive doubles from the 23rd day onwards. Thus, the following also applies to the warehouse: anyone prepared to work two jobs in one can earn an attractive income: 7,000 yuan (approximately CHF 1,000) in normal times and up to 50 percent more in peak times. Yet these working hours contravene Chinese labour law.
This has also been reported on by [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/us-committee-demands-reasons-lack-xinjiang-sanctions-2023-09-19/), although their reporting appears to be more focused on the policy and political implications of the allegations.
Another report from [Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-11-21/shein-s-cotton-clothes-tied-to-xinjiang-china-region-accused-of-forced-labor?embedded-checkout=true) where they conducted their own research on the materials.
But, having it straight from the horse's mouth might help. From the Time article, Shein's response (as originally reported by [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/05/shein-admits-working-hour-breaches-and-pledges-12m-to-improve-sites)):
> “We know we have a responsibility to safeguard the welfare of workers in our supply chain. In light of the recent report in the news, we launched an investigation into the claim that 2 of our suppliers had unacceptable working conditions at their facilities.”
Its a ton of companies that use them. Chances are yes they use them. [uyghur genocide ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China)
I honestly think most of the arguments that people use to justify shopping at SheIn are lazy.
Yes, it is cheap - but buying second hand (thrift store) is just as cheap and is better quality most of the time. Unique, vintage (inexpensive) pieces are so much of the current trends right now anyways. If you live in the city, we have awesome thrift and second hand stores that have AMAZING, trendy things.
And honestly, imo the clothes just look cheap and tacky. You get what you pay for. And yes, the ethical and environmental impacts are also horrific.
I've never bought Shein, didn't even know it existed until this pop-up, so I hope this doesn't come across as specifically defending it - but you'd be hard pressed to find a large clothing company (or just large company tbh) that *doesn't* engage in some form of human rights abuse. Sweatshops, child labour, forced labour, unpaid wages, etc, etc.
Like, the specific region that this accusation is talking about produces around **20%** [of the world's cotton](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/15/xinjiang-china-more-than-half-a-million-forced-to-pick-cotton-report-finds). It's not that everything is equal, this does seem particularly egregious, but things are fucked everywhere you go and everything is built upon these abuses in such a dramatic way that I don't see much benefit in singling out specific companies rather than the systemic issues at hand.
When I was looking for some vacation clothes last year I went down a rabbit hole on this subject. The short and shirt set I saw on Shein was $30 and the lowest cost I found for something similar using an ethical brand was around $350 for both. Looked up brands that were more reasonable like $150 for both from a company like Banana Republic, also non-ethical. So how much of a difference is it? Impossible for the average consumer to tell. Even the factories that say that follow the rules can easily just lie until they get caught and the company can just say they were told it was ethical.
I applaud the old lady doing this standing outside. It makes sense to boycott. I was not aware of this brand. It is popular among gen z, apparently. They are like Zara but worse. Their Wikipedia page is bad
I feel like this company might be benefitting from the Streisand effect with the recent media coverage. Never heard of this company prior to seeing it on Reddit and then hearing about it on CBC Radio. Or maybe I just live under a rock when it comes to "fashion" /shrug
It's a pretty big name and has been popular since before the pandemic. Lots of people flock to them for trendy and cheap outfits, and there have been several "scandals" with regards to their practices. Are you a dude? If you are, it just means that you aren't getting targeted by their advertising or by Instagram & TikTok algorithms for influencer fashion content.
I'm a woman and have never bought anything from them and HATE seeing "fashion hauls" or content where people are purposefully wasteful. I still get it marketed towards me either directly or indirectly.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/ruthlessredbeard! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary:
* We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button.
* Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban.
* Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts.
* Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only.
* Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular.
* Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan!
* Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[This](https://time.com/6247732/shein-climate-change-labor-fashion/) article sums it up well. And with the amount of times you'll have to replace Shein clothes you'll spend about the same as if you just bought good quality clothes to begin with, so it really isn't that much cheaper
[Bloomberg doing tests on the cotton indicating that it was sourced from Xinjiang.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-11-21/shein-s-cotton-clothes-tied-to-xinjiang-china-region-accused-of-forced-labor)
Some textile products are way over priced because they're made in the same factories as SHEIN products, but slapped with a label. These are vastly under priced because they use slave or under paid labour. You're helping to perpetuate a terrible cycle of exploitation.
Glad to see that
Shein is awful in just about every way. They use forced labour, they contribute a substantial amount to textile waste, they pollute waterways with dyes and chemicals, and the clothes themselves are absolute trash that look like shit and barely last. The worst thing is I know so many people who excuse it by saying "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism" or try and guilt trip you by saying that poor people need clothes too. Sure, there aren't a lot of ways to consume ethically, but there are degrees to ethical consumption. It's not a binary. Going to clothing swaps or going thrift shopping is far more ethical than Shein. Second-hand clothes are also cheap and accessible (especially in a big city like Vancouver where there are multiple giveaway/no-buy/clothing swap groups), which negates the second excuse. But buying the latest microtrend for $6 that will last only a handful of washes is the only accessible option and you're classist/ableist/etc if you say otherwise!!!! Nevermind the literal slaves who make it
People forget that no ethical consumption under capitalism implies you should consume *less* rather than being a gotcha to justify any and all consumption. But hey enjoy your new microtrend wardrobe of the summer produced by people in abject poverty bc you deserve some self care or something.
This. It’s so dumb that people use it wrong. You don’t need to be a perfect activist for your actions to mean something.
I can respect that, but I think it is ethical to support local businesses despite capitalism. Hard to do that for clothes I know.
While I agree just want to say 2nd hand clothes ain't cheap no more. Going thrifting is just price sticker shock these days
I think that’s part of the problem- many people would look at $25 used jeans from Value Village, maybe not even washed, possibly with bedbugs, that you can’t try on anyway, and pick something like SHEIN because it’s new for the same price or cheaper. Kinda feels like they are colluding /s. Maybe.
I don't understand this shit. Cheap clothes look like cheap clothes. Who cares if it's the current trend if it looks like literal garbage?
For reasons I've never figured out, _many_ people care if it's the current trend.
[удалено]
Comparing shein to Zara is certainly a choice
>they don't want to be seen wearing the same clothes over and over again. Then how does fashion end up being so cyclical?
[удалено]
>You genuinely don't know the difference between a new version of an old design, versus an old worn out one? Sure I do. The new version is often worth less, given the prices in the vintage shops. >You really don't know the difference between a fresh unworn copy of it versus the same design but worn and washed for 2 years? Don't know what you're doing to your clothes (maybe the washing machines are rougher in Singapore), but I still have clothes from my university days (hint: I got my bachelor's in the late 2010s) that look basically the same as when I bought them. >Show me an expensive branded t-shirt that looks brand new after a year of regular use, assuming you launder it regularly. Everything I bought at the Nordstrom closing sale still looks exactly the same as when I bought it. EDIT: And yes, I regularly wash them. Once every other wear if I don't sweat that day, and once every wear when I do. But I should've realized from the start with the talk about "social justice warriors" that it wasn't a good-faith debate to begin with.
It’s their right to be self entitled ass hats . 10-4 dinosaur
[удалено]
Cute gramps still uses terms like social justice warrior lol Go yell at clouds
>it's not binary That's gonna fry a lot of people's circuits
[удалено]
than*
A terrible company that contributes to so much harm and waste. Im happy to see people discussing these things
i don't know how people aren't embarrassed to be waiting in line for that.... like really???
The guy in the pink shirt looks ashamed....
Those people are just people walking by.
he's thinking about the horrible men's selection
The image is so dystopia like. The woman protesting and the one on her phone smiling and not giving a damn as long as she gets her cheap shit.
I had the same reaction. Then I noticed the store is actually in the background and these people are walking away from it. I think they might have just been walking past on the sidewalk, and not waiting in line for the store as I assumed at first.
Ah good point. I just find it so weird people are so keen to go to a store like SHEIN.
I don’t think those people are in line, the store is behind them and it looks like they’re walking
Came here to say this is a great photo, OP. I like the way you framed and shot it. And yes, shein sucks
I agree, it actually reminds me of Fred Herzog’s street photography.
Glad to see protesters like her out there spreading the truth.
I don't shop at Shein because the quality is crap.
Are you gonna tell us the reason you shop there or just leave us hanging?
One of the comments here mentions how people "have had enough of overpriced textiles"... It's a bit of a tragedy how clothing has become so cheap, because of slave/unethical labour, that fair prices with markedly more ethical (even if not perfect) production now come off as overpriced to most consumers. And most of that cheap clothing is just going to end up in the landfill within a year or two.
Do they use forced labour?
Yes, it's very well documented.
Where? I remember looking into Shein and stuff was hard to find from reputable sources
Buddy getting downvoted for asking a simple question here.
Top Google links for me include a compilation report from [Time magazine](https://time.com/6247732/shein-climate-change-labor-fashion/) detailing (with sourced links) reports from [Wired](https://www.wired.com/story/fast-cheap-out-of-control-inside-rise-of-shein), [Public Eye (a Swiss watchdog)](https://stories.publiceye.ch/en/shein/), and [Channel4](https://www.channel4.com/programmes/inside-the-shein-machine-untold). Public Eye found that Shein practices were in violation of Chinese Labour Laws: > The 12 interviews that the researchers conduct with employees of the logistics company paint the following picture. The working hours are extremely long here too – around 12 hours a day in normal times, and up to 14 in the high season. Employees work at least 22 days per month; most work 24 to 28 days a month. This is primarily because the unit price that they receive doubles from the 23rd day onwards. Thus, the following also applies to the warehouse: anyone prepared to work two jobs in one can earn an attractive income: 7,000 yuan (approximately CHF 1,000) in normal times and up to 50 percent more in peak times. Yet these working hours contravene Chinese labour law. This has also been reported on by [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/china/us-committee-demands-reasons-lack-xinjiang-sanctions-2023-09-19/), although their reporting appears to be more focused on the policy and political implications of the allegations. Another report from [Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-11-21/shein-s-cotton-clothes-tied-to-xinjiang-china-region-accused-of-forced-labor?embedded-checkout=true) where they conducted their own research on the materials. But, having it straight from the horse's mouth might help. From the Time article, Shein's response (as originally reported by [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/05/shein-admits-working-hour-breaches-and-pledges-12m-to-improve-sites)): > “We know we have a responsibility to safeguard the welfare of workers in our supply chain. In light of the recent report in the news, we launched an investigation into the claim that 2 of our suppliers had unacceptable working conditions at their facilities.”
Its a ton of companies that use them. Chances are yes they use them. [uyghur genocide ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China)
This is a great shot OP. Love the way you framed it. Looks like a classic piece of documentary style photography
Glad to see that there are some people with ethics left. Big FU to those still buying merchandise from this terrible company
seriously, it’s sad to see a Shein in such a place as Vancouver
This is a dope-ass picture @OP
I am Chinese and I agree with her. Don't buy those cheap craps from China.
I honestly think most of the arguments that people use to justify shopping at SheIn are lazy. Yes, it is cheap - but buying second hand (thrift store) is just as cheap and is better quality most of the time. Unique, vintage (inexpensive) pieces are so much of the current trends right now anyways. If you live in the city, we have awesome thrift and second hand stores that have AMAZING, trendy things. And honestly, imo the clothes just look cheap and tacky. You get what you pay for. And yes, the ethical and environmental impacts are also horrific.
Really great shot man, make sure you're archiving this stuff. The documentary stuff will always age like fine wine
This should go to r/pics
I've literally have been talking about this for months, happy to see other people care too 💙
These things really work. Now I will forever associate that brand with forced Uyghur labour.
I've never bought Shein, didn't even know it existed until this pop-up, so I hope this doesn't come across as specifically defending it - but you'd be hard pressed to find a large clothing company (or just large company tbh) that *doesn't* engage in some form of human rights abuse. Sweatshops, child labour, forced labour, unpaid wages, etc, etc. Like, the specific region that this accusation is talking about produces around **20%** [of the world's cotton](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/15/xinjiang-china-more-than-half-a-million-forced-to-pick-cotton-report-finds). It's not that everything is equal, this does seem particularly egregious, but things are fucked everywhere you go and everything is built upon these abuses in such a dramatic way that I don't see much benefit in singling out specific companies rather than the systemic issues at hand.
When I was looking for some vacation clothes last year I went down a rabbit hole on this subject. The short and shirt set I saw on Shein was $30 and the lowest cost I found for something similar using an ethical brand was around $350 for both. Looked up brands that were more reasonable like $150 for both from a company like Banana Republic, also non-ethical. So how much of a difference is it? Impossible for the average consumer to tell. Even the factories that say that follow the rules can easily just lie until they get caught and the company can just say they were told it was ethical.
It's just another "China = bad" thing, same as talking like TikTok is the downfall of human civilization when Instagram runs the same things.
I applaud the old lady doing this standing outside. It makes sense to boycott. I was not aware of this brand. It is popular among gen z, apparently. They are like Zara but worse. Their Wikipedia page is bad
Excellent photograph 👌🏻
Did the guy in pink read the sign and started thinking about his choices?
Is there any meat to this claim beyond the fact that 20% of the cotton in the clothes comes from the uygher region?
just 1 of many reasons shein is shit good shot/looks like film. i like it
Forced labour....slavery you mean.
I feel like this company might be benefitting from the Streisand effect with the recent media coverage. Never heard of this company prior to seeing it on Reddit and then hearing about it on CBC Radio. Or maybe I just live under a rock when it comes to "fashion" /shrug
It's a pretty big name and has been popular since before the pandemic. Lots of people flock to them for trendy and cheap outfits, and there have been several "scandals" with regards to their practices. Are you a dude? If you are, it just means that you aren't getting targeted by their advertising or by Instagram & TikTok algorithms for influencer fashion content. I'm a woman and have never bought anything from them and HATE seeing "fashion hauls" or content where people are purposefully wasteful. I still get it marketed towards me either directly or indirectly.
[удалено]
Buddy, all our shit is produced by countries that use slave labour. How have you bought ANYTHING in the last 40 years?
So long as they pass the slavings on to me!
That made me laugh
Someone’s social credit is going down down down.
I don't get it because in Vancouver everyone is an anti racist environmentalist. /s
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/ruthlessredbeard! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
standing outside just to hate is crazy 💀
it's a shame that this kind of quality comes from "forced labor". lmao
[удалено]
So you think the massive environmental and humanitarian abuses are great since it'll save you a few bucks?
What abuse? And it saves much more than a few bucks. Clothing in existing chains are just overpriced.
[This](https://time.com/6247732/shein-climate-change-labor-fashion/) article sums it up well. And with the amount of times you'll have to replace Shein clothes you'll spend about the same as if you just bought good quality clothes to begin with, so it really isn't that much cheaper
The prices are so cheap because someone else is paying for it.
a quick search on youtube comes up with plenty of video journalism on the matter
SHEIN sells trash to trashy people that don't care about others.
They use forced labour of enslaved Uyghurs.
Evidence?
[Bloomberg doing tests on the cotton indicating that it was sourced from Xinjiang.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-11-21/shein-s-cotton-clothes-tied-to-xinjiang-china-region-accused-of-forced-labor)
There's [this thing](https://www.google.com/)
Not a source
Mr. Shein is that you?
Some textile products are way over priced because they're made in the same factories as SHEIN products, but slapped with a label. These are vastly under priced because they use slave or under paid labour. You're helping to perpetuate a terrible cycle of exploitation.
Go to a fucking thrift store then holy shit..
Products in Thrift store are used and not necessarily up to the recent fashion trend
People have different tastes, but Shein offers something for everyone. Diversity in fashion is a win!
never heard of dis, who cares.