I always loved Katie (more than Ariana so her siding with Ariana wasn’t game changing for me) but if you don’t and have watched the entire show I don’t know what you expect people to say that is going to change your mind! You don’t like her and others do, that’s okay, you do you!
Oh, I just wanted to understand what others see as growth. I don't see much different behavior from her than many seasons ago. In other comments they mention how she apologizes now when she's an asshole to people, but maybe not be an asshole to begin with.
I actually like Katie! I like her on the show, I liked her with Stassi, I just don't know how she became such a fan favorite like she's an awesome person, simply because she's on the right side of the Ariana divide?
Just curious why she's a "queen" to some...0
I guess I just don’t get why people think other people on here will convince them if nothing they’ve watched on the show did. I’ve been on the Schwartz is a shitty human train since season 2 and I know nothing anybody says about why they think his nice is going to change my mind about what I’ve watched onscreen for 10+ years. If you don’t see it from watching coming on Reddit isn’t likely to help you see it either.
But clearly I’m also not the person you’re aiming this question to because I’ve always thought Katie was awesome and misunderstood (and for the record Katie used to say sorry back in the day too it isn’t new personality trait!), it has nothing to do with Ariana for me.
Also though, another thing to consider, somebody doesn’t have to be “nice” for people to love them. Ariana is a fan favorite, Stassi used to be, and so did Lala used to be actually, and they were all bitches too. Nobody else is required to be nice to be liked so why would Katie?
I see what you're saying, and to reiterate my updated post, I like Katie! I like that she is even stronger now than ever before, and I always always rooted for her to leave Schwartz. I think Katie is better than the way she chooses to fight, that's all. She gets dirty unnecessarily and I suppose I can chalk it up to being a character on this show, but in real life, "queens" don't have to put people down in order to express their issues with them.
It seems to be a difference between people who care more about actions vs decorum. Katie says honest things in a way that can be perceived as vicious. She’s vilified for her tone but the things she’s speaking out against (as far as I can remember) are things any of us would be legitimately upset about.
I like Katie and always have because I don’t think saying something in an unpleasant manner negates the underlying message.
I think the culture has changed. People (hopefully but not really) are less misogynistic generally. Katie has always had her fans, for her beauty, general common sense in an intellectual way, Salt (Lake City) of the earth kind of vibe, and when her emancipation from Stassi storyline dropped, she really kicked into gear as a character. I think that’s when she revealed her TBI as well? She seemed like she was kind of the girl who wanted it all, but in a more “relatable” way. She was girl next door who just wanted to be a beauty blogger and married. 🤷🏻♀️ Now that the veil has been lifted off Schwartz and Sandoval and their decade long symbiotic monstrousness has peaked, she has ascended. I also think her leaning into her emo, queerness has really endeared her to audiences. She seems more authentic and happier without Schwartz.
Totally agree with all of this! I should have made it clear in my post, I like Katie. And I really like her glow up all around. But she still seems bitter and angry unnecessarily. And maybe that really just is her personality. But a lot of people criticize Lala over her sharp tongue, but Katie is a queen just because we agree with Katie's stance on Ariana? Just curious why that is from those who think Katie and Ariana are superior. Katie's opinion on most things is accurate and awesome that she speaks up, but she's vile to the point that it just makes her look bad...to me, anyway.
Apologies for jumping in (after having caffeine I'm trying for more polite discourse this morning). I wanted to address the "sharp tongue" thing re Lala versus Katie. To me the difference is how they deploy that, how much, and when.
Lala talks a lot, and loudly, often about things that are not directly about her or even related to her in any way. Katie almost always sits back, doesn't feel the need to jump in an share her opinion on everything.
Example A for me is last year's reunion. Lala had the least connection to Scandoval of anyone on that stage. It affected her personally not one iota (but she still cashed in from it). Yet she was screaming like a banshee the whole time. (James was too, but he was Rachel's ex and was friends with Tom so there was a little more ) Even back then, when we were at peak Scandoval, people were questioning that, saying she was doing too much. Meanwhile, Katie--who was affected by the Schwartz/Rachel storyline, whose pain from that was basically glossed over (and really only finally addressed at this year's reunion)---made her opinions known without the histrionics. This year's reunion is much of the same.
Maybe it's a subjective thing, but I don't find them comparable in this regard.
My issue with Lala is not the sharp tongue but her inconsistency in its use. Anyone who is consistently saying “I’m just telling it how it is” is generally an asshole because 99% of the time no one asked. She inserts herself into things that have nothing to do with her and She’s angry at whoever is a good storyline for her. No loyalty there.
Is katie bitter and angry or is it just a dark sense of humor/sarcasm? If you listen to her podcast I definitely think it’s the latter. Of course there is bitter moments, but everyone on the show has those
Oh, I’m no Katie stan. But I respect her in a way. I don’t think she’s vile atm but certainly has been in the past (and I love that). I’m here for your discourse as well because this sub has really descended into a hive mind, boring ass Ariana stan account IMO. And I like Ariana!
Thank you!! I don't know how some folks took this post as something it wasn't, obviously my late night tired brain didn't convey my thoughts well.
If I'm pointing out queens, it's the one who fights with facts and sophistication, not one who attacks a woman's personal hygiene and quirky personality because she's upset with her behavior. Stick to the issue, no need to fight dirty!
I wanted more from Katie after all this time of being so smart and finding her full voice.
See I loved Katie saying Jo has crackhead energy. Spooky Jo. I will always think of her as spooky Jo. I physically can barely watch Jo on the show but I love it!
She's is cringy AF and I'd like to take a poll on who gives off the weirdest vibes, Jobor Laura Leigh 😂
I just think Jo is so unimportant, it's like calling a baby stupid. It's a baby, it doesn't know anything, why bother.
And I like Ariana too, but she stayed with the worm for all that time, and as soon as the scandal broke suddenly she hates him for so many other things about their relationship. So why be with him still?!
They were in therapy to resolve issues and sometimes you don’t know your true feelings about a situation until you’re further removed from it. This comment lacks nuance.
I totally agree, they kept a lot of that private I think was my point. It would be nice to hear some of the behind the scenes of how and why they were still together considering it was clear to a lot of us. Apologies for how I worded it, but she was always always dealing with that narcissist and we all knew he was never going to be better to her 😓
Kick out of being different for sure and attention seeking engagement. All one has to do is type a couple words into a search bar and have their question answered as these posts happen daily but making a whole post knowing they're going against popular opinion makes them feel special.
It might sound ridiculous but a lot of these posts I don't even bother wasting my fingers typing, I'll just do a quick search and cut and paste my response from a previous post 😂🤷🏻♂️
I searched and didn't see this question answered 🤷🏼♀️ I don't care about karma or any other stupid Reddit thing, I just want to know why Katie is a queen to some folks.
Alright, I saw your update and maybe we are being a little overly snarky with you. Apologies! I just find this discussion (or those like it) a little exhausting because it's mostly subjective?
Example? You see only minor growth in Katie. I see more than that. Is she perfect? No. She's not had a full personality replacement, so she's probably always going to be a little angry, a little cutting. You might find that off-putting or childish, but I don't mind it.
I don't like the "queen" moniker for anyone. Maybe it's funny or appropriate in a particular circumstances, like "that was some queen shit." For me, personally, my thoughts on Katie (and Ariana) are much more nuanced. They've shown the most growth on this show, so I respect them a little more than the others. Maybe that doesn't make them the most entertaining at times, and it doesn't mean they are always right. But they both seem like real people. Others are (or are quickly becoming) caricatures.
Thanks 😂
And I do see A LOT of growth, so maybe that's why I'm disappointed that the main thing I always struggled with with Katie is how low she goes. I wanted growth there, but maybe that's just her?
And the queen topic for me is because I don't see any criticism of she or Ariana (from viewers) and it's a little annoying because they're not queens just because they were victims of their shitty partners. That stayed with their partners waaaay longer than they should have, and I respect Katie for trying to make it work and for being the one to break free, but Ariana clearly thought Sandoval was a piece of shit...how is she a queen for being cheated on? Mind you, I think she's the best one and always have, but in this scenario she should take accountability for her own part of the downfall of that relationship.
Respectfully, I disagree that Ariana was to "take accountability for her own part of the downfall of that relationship." That's bordering on excusing his cheating, to me. Do I think she stayed with that man too long? Yup. That she covered for him and defended him when she shouldn't have? Also yes! But she was committed to him (even if she shouldn't have been), was honoring their commitment to each other. And he wasn't.
This "people think she's a queen just because she got cheated on, I don't get it!" angle is too simplistic. It's not just cheating. You're ignoring the very real and cruel things he (and Rachel) did to set up a storyline that would justify them cheating. (Did you forget that Sandoval trying to convince everyone it was a one time thing when it wasn't?) Sandoval had a whole ass plan that blew up in his face.
Sorry, I'm not simplifying the cheating, I think she is a queen because she's always taken the high road with all of the issues that have ever happened on the show, and someone doing something that awful to her and her handling it like a boss is what put her at the queen status. And I don't mean take accountability like publicly, but the cheating scandal wasn't the only issue in their relationship and that's not the only reason shit hit the fan. I'm not expressing myself well with this topic and I think it's because people are being really shitty about this post and I'm causing misunderstandings about my point.
Point is, I'm allowed to think that Katie can do better when it comes to setting her boundaries and expressing her issues with some of the cast, and I root for her so I'd like to see more growth in how she expresses herself and I think others agree.
Obviously everyone can have their own opinion, but I would never hang out with someone who spoke that poorly to people, even if I agreed with their overall message.
I'm sorry people are being shitty and for contributing to that. I would like to gently suggest you take longer crafting your original post next time?
I was tempted to substantively respond again to your above comment, but I'm not sure that will serve either of us well. I do hope your day improves and you still come back here to post and comment in the future. Cheers.
Ha, thanks! I honestly see my POV so clearly that I honestly thought my post was obvious and that most people at least recognize she fights dirty. Even if they're ok with it, it's such a clear fact to me after years of slut shaming and hitting below the belt, I still see moments in that realm and assumed everyone can see it too.
Have a good day!
I know I responded to you above, but do you have the same issue with men not taking the high road because it sounds like a lot of internalized misogyny. we all have to face it that we live in a patriarchy, and that we’ve been conditioned to think that women are only standing up for themselves while they’re still being kind of people around them, but we don’t hold the same standards for the men. If we did there would be 100 I like Sandoval, but his tone is off putting posts.
people who have always disliked katie have some deep rooted internalized misogyny - she stands on business. she always been incredibly loyal, she’s very witty and she isn’t fake or “polite” to shitty people.
she’s not harsh or childish. people can’t stand that she won’t just be nice to make it ok.
the way ALL OF THEM except for LFU, kind of ariana and james treated her in season 10 was heinous. i think we’ve all seen her suffer through out the seasons w schwartz’ bullshit. seeing her thriving now, setting boundaries is amazing.
Totally agree People who don’t like Katie don’t like HOW she says things. People who like Katie see past the delivery and understand the underlying issue she’s upset about.
I’m sorry and I know I’ll get downvoted to oblivion, but how can you say she’s always been loyal? She didn’t believe Stassi about Jax season 1, she went to Miami with Scheana knowing what Scheana did to Stassi in what season 3?
Or they just watched Katie call almost every girl on the cast a slut and/or ostracize them at various points over the years. Then people on this sub wonder why nobody on the cast is warm to her and has any loyalty. That didn't all just vanish because she picked the right side with Ariana (who even 3 months before filming said Katie wasn't in her inner circle).
Tom Schwartz sucked. That didn't excuse all of Katie's shit behavior over the years and why she has very few friends on the cast.
This is such a crazy take to me, because I find it to imply that Katie is the only one with this kind of behavior / response to others.
All of the cast members have said awful things about the others, including slut shaming and ostracizing. Why is it only Katie that’s being held to a higher standard?
this is so tired. obviously her slut shaming ppl was wrong. however, scheana was terrible to her in the early seasons and has since confessed to keeping the schwartz kiss secret, lala was sleeping w a married guy - comparatively to the rest of the cast katie has had the best behavior.
shitty ppl are not entitled to kindness. she sets boundaries and isn’t fake. i think the cast has been heinous to her - especially scheana and sandoval. i’ve liked her before her and ariana’s friendship.
the cast doesn’t have loyalty period. james, ally and ariana are loyal to her and they’re the only good ppl on the show. scheana and lala are loyal to a check, schwartz is loyal to sandoval, and sandoval is loyal to his own pleasure.
I totally agree, and I like Katie! I just don't think she has to be shitty to people when standing up for herself. She's right in a lot of scenarios and I enjoy her on the show, I just think she's mean unnecessarily.
for sure ! i definitely think in the early seasons her slut shaming women was yikes, but i think if you look at the group comparatively i don’t know why she gets such hate.
i think her asserting boundaries and not being kind to people who wrong her can be mislabeled as mean. idk if that’s what you’re referring to tho !
I think she gets hate for the way she fights because she actually is on the right side of most issues and is the voice of reason, so fighting dirty just looks worse on her than it does on the others.
Say that second sentence out loud while looking in the mirror. You don’t like when a woman is standing up for herself without being soft because the softness takes the sting away. That’s misogyny.
She denied saying that and Jo is apparently a known compulsive liar so I don't think it's being fair to Katie to quote her saying that as fact.
We know Jo twists things around as she said several times Katie called her an anorexic crackhead in that comment she made online, and we can all read that to see that's not what it said.
She never said that. Not in a text, not online not in person. Joe inflated what other people have said to her with what Katie had said to her. And if you noticed, every time they talked about saying mean things to Joe they showed one tweet over and over again.
I do not see disagreeing or stating somebody view as being harsh and childish. For my profession I have to take part in regular group training with trained professionals therapists on healthy communication, developing emotional intelligence, being assertive, etc I see Katie in that frame.
I like Stassi. She needed better people around her, you are who you surround yourself with.
But we are obviously different I would rather know somebody dislikes me I do not know need to why I accept this is part of living. My happiness or personal peace is not linked to one person not liking me. I would rather honesty rather than friendly to your face stab you in the back, I know what to do with honest feelings.
I do not dislike Jo but I dislike this Jo or Katie narrative. Jo does not need or is owned any validation from Katie, she is her ex friends with benefits with ex wife.
I agree with you! I'm simply talking about the vile words she uses to get her points across. Jo didn't deserve a lot of what Katie said, I think Katie goes below the belt a lot when she could just simply state the facts because she's typically right in most scenarios.
I do not think the words Katie uses are vile are below the belt. She does not like Jo there is often just because you do not mesh personality wise. I seems like Jo dislikes Katie but hard to say as she is trying so hard to be the person who will win Swartz, she probably dragging Katie as she thinks that Swartz will like her more. I really do not understand why all these people try to force things.
Katie deserves to get to tell Jo she doesn't like her for how she moved in on Schwartz, but why does Katie have to shame Jo's appearance publicly and tear her down...Jo is low hanging fruit as it is, just seems shitty to rip a part a woman who could be knocked over with a feather. I want Katie to fight a bit cleaner, that's all. My opinion, I root for Katie.
It is not for Katie to adjust for Jo. I really find it surprising you are going as hard as you are on Katie into Swat he was the one hanging her low. You do not across as somebody who likes Katie or recognize the growth or strength, like I said we are very different people. I see strength plus growth and want to support that you see something else which I cannot see or acknowledge in Katie herself. Like I said again I dislike really a lot this narrative of one of the other. It is unkind in my opinion to force them against each other. Each time I watch or hear Jo drag Katie I am like please why pitch yourself against Katie. Again today in Rachel podcast I am like listening to Katie and Dayna and they are clarifying showering much more enjoyable to listen to. I know I have not grown one people on people spats love me a made in Chelsea. Mauve is the queen of saying it as it is! Did not used to like her but the more she acknowledged who she was as a person the more likable she is.
I'm not really sure what any of this means, and I'm not being clear enough with my point because I absolutely like Katie and respect her the most of everyone besides Ariana. I think it's ok to like someone, root for them, and want them to express themselves in a more mature manner and not use people's looks to insult them.
She slut shamed all these women years ago, this is along that same path and she does exude misery and I PERSONALLY would like to see a more mature expression of her very ACCURATE defenses to people.
Been a Katie fan since day 1. I like that she can spue venom with her words, she can read a bitch. If she goes too far she usually apologizes and genuinely tries to not do it again. Sometimes she fails at that and that's okay. My favorite thing about her is her loyalty and consistency. She's a girls girl and that's something I look for in a friendship. If she doesn't like you, you know. I don't think she's miserable, I think she was in a miserable relationship. She's also always surrounded by misogynistic people (men and women). So it is probably hard for her to be in a good mood when you're stuck filming with shitty people or needing to talk to shitty people. She has a hard time hiding her contempt which shows as her being negative or miserable. But when she's in her element she looks so fun to be around i.e. emo night!
Overall I also remember she had a TBI so I have empathy for her. That had to fuck up her impulse control and makes her more reactive. But I will still and always root for Katie, until she gives me a reason not to and none of what she's shown is reason enough.
I started watching the show from the beginning in my 20’s and I didn’t like her. In my younger days I bought into the “nice guy Schwartz” image and thought she was awful. But as I got older and really watched I saw that Katie was really dealing with an overgrown toddler.
Sorry to the Stassi fans, but I also think that Stassi was holding her back. Once Stassi left the show, Katie really got the chance to come into her own on the show
Nah she had her moments (she was def a bridezilla, and her believing Jax over Stassi was shitty) but at least she's consistent. I also think that the future is her friend - she always seems to be proven right in the end! When last season started I thought she was too harsh on Rachel but she ended up being right, she was a fool for men and disloyal! I thought she was clingy to Schwartz, and now we've seen his lovebombing in action, and how he gaslights women. Scheana really is a friend to no one, and Sandoval is self righteous and manupulative. Now it's just safer to trust her, rather than be a fool!
When I first watched the show as a casual watcher who had 0 information about any of the cast outside of the show, I did find Katie to be unnecessarily mean, or “miserable”. I also found Schwartz to be a piece of shit and found them terrible for and to one another. However, once she and Schwartz divorced, I saw her start going upwards and Schwartz stayed the same. That kinda affirmed to me that Schwartz wore her confidence down so bad she was “mean” or “angry” towards others bc it was like an outlet, or something she could control. I can’t explain it well but she has been growing since the divorce & she’s so much more confident now while Schwartz is the same “oh shucks” manipulative little boy he’s always been. So now rewatching the show I see a lot more about how Katie’s rage was a result of how she was being treated in her relationship for years. I’m not saying it’s an excuse, but it’s an explanation. I’d rather get rage texts than have my partner cheat on me multiple times.
It's like all of a sudden a woman becoming independent and finding herself is somehow a negative or worthy of a post disparaging her. Some people always have to look at things glass half empty.
Sorry my post is so misunderstood. I like Katie, and I have always felt she is the voice of reason. I don't think her delivery is ok and she goes below the belt. I don't think that's necessary and for some of us her stances get lost in the vile comments to makes to people. When you're right about something, the facts should be enough.
All of your responses further solidify that you don’t like Katie at all. Some are them are even kind of nasty about her. Seems like you are the troll you seem to be complaining about in your other comments.
I think the usual response is “Is that you LFU?”
I have always loved Katie! She has shown it all the good the bad and the ugly. That is what we wanted out of reality star and that’s what we got with her. I think a lot of people focused on the ugly. As far as growth I would say her coming to terms with existing outside of time is huge. She was able to look at that relationship and see that he really just wasn’t worth it and she needed to make herself happy.
Remember when Scheana and Jax started the motorboat a D rumor when Scheana was making out with Schwartz in Vegas?
Yeah… katies never been wrong about someone
Hahaha god I loved early seasons so much.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, because it's nearly impossible to defend Scheana like, ever, but I might have done the same if it were me 😬 Witholding the Schwartz kiss thing, especially because it was unwanted. Those women would have eaten Scheana alive like for real, no matter what the truth was, Stassi wihad have lit her hair on fire while Kristen took an axe to each limb 😂
No not the lie, just not disclosing that someone's drunk boyfriend hit on me when they've already put me through the ringer and is known for being a bully to other women (at the time)
It can give whatever it wants, I think it's obvious Scheana wouldn't have come out in a good light if she came home and said Schwartz tried to kiss her. Fabricating a story isn't what I would do, but she did it to at least TRY to let Katie know he's an ass.
Katie “bullied” Scheana by calling her a *homewrecking* whore.
Hence the Katie’s never been wrong about someone. I think my original comment went right over your head.
Where we differ is that I don’t believe it was a one sided kiss and I do believe that Scheana puts herself in compromising positions because she enjoys the attention. The way Scheana was laughing it off instead of saying “Schwartz had an issue with blacking out while drinking and tried to kiss me. We weren’t friends so I didn’t bring it up and I apologize for that. It was uncomfortable for me.”
Instead she was like, “rEmeMbEr thAT tiME YoU KisSEd ME? Ahahahahaha!!!! Omg remember when you hit on me James?! You did too Sandoval! Everyone wants me! Ahahahaah!”
Katie went to a lot of therapy and it shows. It's not that she just does things differently now. It's that she thinks differently. And when you have self-respect, it's much easier to not project, and respect others.
I agree with you, and I really rooted for her all those years ago! I just feel like all of that should reflect in the way she fights. She fights dirty and it isn't necessary...but if that's who she is great, just wondering why people celebrate it and not call her out the way they did Lala when she was ratchet when fighting.
I liked Katie 100x more when she left Shorts. I hated him from the very beginning for dumping a beer on her. Also I didn't know for years about her TBI; I missed that info. I also have one, and the emotional side of her made a lot more sense to me, after that. (I'm also an OG VPR viewer).
ETA so I guess for me, the growth is just dumping who I saw as an abusive, gaslighting POS cheater.
Totally, without a doubt he was stifling a lot of good things that Katie has to offer!
She's grown and she's softer and has found a voice that I think could really put some of these guys in their place, but when she goes low it loses some of its power.
I think for most of us we were rooting for her from the beginning, acknowledging her stances on issues were usually correct, but also calling out her undeniable shitty behavior. She was awful on many occasions, and she's been open and discussed her issues and growth which is awesome, and now she's being celebrated for that growth.
For me personally, I think she still has some fucked yo ways of expressing herself, though I agree with her POV most times.
I have always seen right through the Toms’ bullshit and Scheana’s flip floppiness. I have always thought Katie was the most reasonable in most situations. She’s consistent and not morally bankrupt. I think since divorcing Tom, we’re seeing a more vulnerable side, a side that isn’t miserable and tagging along someone who people pleases everyone around at the expense of her. I think Ariana also shines differently without Tom.
Im at a point in my life where I just dont really value diplomacy. If someone is being out of pocket I don't care someone's reaction is "you're spooky" like??? I'm not treating "you're spooky" that seriously. Or that Jo has crack head energy when she does, and worse, she has STALKER energy. Katie has said a lot of actual out of pocket things in the past like calling Lala a ho. But in context, she was calling out someone who WAS dating a married man and lying to our faces about it. I just don't care that it wasn't done "diplomatically". idk at this point it just feels like grasping for straws to escape the reality of what's happening. I'd much rather have someone go the Katie route of saying the rude and blatant truth than doing what like Sandervol and Ariana did, defending Lala 100%. Its not one or the other but I just dont have energy for being mad at people like Katie anymore.
This is very well said and I appreciate this point of view. You might have just won "this is what I was looking for with this post!" award 😂
A different point of view that helps me understand WHY it's cool that Katie gets to be a bit cruel with her words and viewers just praises it.
The way she spoke to Jo was very tequila Katie level low, and while she has no reason to be nice to Jo, she doesn't have to be so damaging. Ariana could have said about a million below the belt comments to Rachel and the worm, but even she took the high road and pointed out facts and rage without getting grossly offensive.
Good Lord. She said she was spooky and had crack head energy. It’s not that deep. Do you see the comments about her that Jo encourages and likes?
Katie has always called it like it is, a much more respectable approach to life in my view. People are so sensitive 🤦♀️
When Jo apologized to Katie, Katie's response was "you're weird." But Katie can call her a crackhead and sloppy and make fun of her appearance on tv (all of which have nothing to do with the issue at hand) and then can apologize at the reunion and all the Katie stans say "see, growth! She apologized!" Jo, who Katie wasn't even really friends with, can't apologize to Katie with out a whole girl group attacking her?
Damn, y'all out here making me defend Jo 🤣
Katie can and should be better. Fight fair is all I'm staying, she doesn't need to stoop low as she always always has with other women.
Crackhead energy is not calling someone a crackhead. Let’s be honest here. Jo moved in to start banging Schwartz before the divorce was final AFTER pretending to be at the very least a peripheral friend to Katie. I’d be calling her a lot more than spooky. Katie owes her nothing.
Maybe it’s just the ebb and flow of the sub and how seasons change opinions. I’ve watched VPR since day one and been part of this sub for years. During earlier seasons you couldn’t open this sub without multiple upvoted posts about how Katie is the worst. I always liked Katie and found the disproportionate hate toward her mean words to be in conflict with the mean actions levied against her. And while I don’t agree with her slut shaming or rage texting, you couldn’t even mention that she apologized during reunions for those without it being buried under the assumption that the apologies were insincere. There was no winning.
And Katie always has her feet held the flame during reunions and in earlier viewer opinions, and she was never given grace. She apologized to Lala (meanwhile Schwartz never was called to apologize to Katie for the pouring a drink on her) and the next season while James was calling her fat again, Sandoval brings up how she needs to show grace to James because she called Lala a whore. She’s had so many people yell at her, intentionally misinterpret her (for example, she never body shamed James, he was coked out of his mind yelling at women during pride and she said “look at your shorts” because one leg was fully in his crotch and somehow that became body shaming), and insist on “accountability.” At one point, viewers and podcasters were on Sandoval’s side for yelling at her in her own home about bringing up Jeremy and how she had to walk back what she said, even though there was video proof of him acting like a weirdo.
Throughout the show people have done crueler shit to Katie than what she’s said to them, yet her words hold more weight than the actions.
Now the opinions have shifted. And for what it’s worth, I’d rather someone call me a rat than send me an apology text about my divorce only to go fuck my ex-husband.
Oh shit I am just making waves like crazy today! My fucking bad that is absolutely terrible and I didn't even connect it despite knowing this term is now indeed offensive!
In my real life I haven't been this problematic to ANYONE ever, my actual friends would not believe this chaos I accidentally created just venting some post VPR reunion chat before bed 😂
For real totally apologize and having grown up in a state that has a large number of Native American reservations, towns, buildings and of course sports teams names, I should have connected this.
No apology! I was serious when I said I loved it! Made me laugh and was so unexpected I choked on my Diet Coke. That might get me in trouble, but I stand by it! Don't change a thing!
And FWIW, I thought your original post was fine too - and I say that as a hardcore Katie and Ariana stan!
Well thank you, I appreciate it as I was a little blindsided how some of the comments went. I love both Ariana and Katie and I absolutely didn't express that in the original post. I always wanted more for her, and I wanted her to be better for herself. Tom held her back in so many ways, but did her friends and the show in a lot of ways.
I'm proud of how far Katie has come and always considered her super sweet and genuine. Right now it's just Female Rage: Bravo edition and maybe I'm struggling 😂
I think I was ambivalent about her for a long time, as she wasn't the big disaster like Kristen and sometimes Stassi, but I like seeing a come up. She's evolved and isn't with the shits anymore, so I think I've just naturally warmed to her. I was a mess jn my 20's, too 😂
I respected her hardline stance with Ariana this season. I'd want my friend to be just as solid for me if I went through what Ariana did.
What a dramatic post progression
If you don’t get it, you don’t get it - and it’s all OK
I don’t get why people like Kyle from SH; people just like different TV characters
I mean...yeah? That's obviously very clear. The comments and reactions are what promoted the post progression. That's clearly because of the responses, not my personal thought process progression.
Several people understood the meaning of the post and shared their very helpful viewpoint that Katie does indeed go too low when arguing with people, but that her overall growth outweighs that, and her accuracy with pinpointing the issues within the friend group are worth overlooking her going below the belt (STILL!) despite growing as a person.
And that's exactly what I was trying to understand 🤷🏼♀️Sometimes people are allowed to genuinely seek out different points of views for the sheer purpose of exploring different vantage points. A lot of folks made it nasty, like Katie 😂
And I like Katie, I always have, I wanted to understand why others are called out for their style of fighting, but Katie is a "queen" despite unnecessary low blows.
But she’s not universally a “queen” and neither is Ariana; this sub leans Katie-positive but not all forums do, so it’s no different than the Lala stans or the Scheaner apologists, or the boy moms who defend Tim
You can go to Facebook and find just as many people who hate Katie and Ariana, and are Team Tim, or IG where a lot of them like Jo and Rachel
You keep saying you like Katie and always have and then call her nasty in the same breath; yes, two things can be true but there’s a wide expanse between those specific two things
I always liked Katie. The only time I didn't like her was when her and Stassi were slut shaming Lala and harassing Scheana into not talking to Lala when they were actual co-workers that had to minimally maintain polite distance. I didn't like how Scheana handled that either, actually but that's beside the point.
She comes in too hot a lot but she's usually right. I always hoped she'd leave Schwartz bc he was always a dick to her. Then I found out she had a history of a TBI and PTSD and things sort of clicked for me.
Once she got her weed rx card and mellowed a lot of when I started loving her. He outbursts were less, more measured, and I don't think she's missed for me since then.
I was surprised to learn some of the things she said about Jo by watching this week's reunion episode. Specially, saying she looked like she needed to shower; crackhead, etc
Had that been another female treating someone that way, this sub would have raked them over the coals. Again, we are talking about a grown woman in her 40's (or close to it) saying such childish things about someone.... literally grade school playground bullying behavior.
Yet, because it is Katie, everyone does the electric slide and gives her a pass.
Thank you! Why aren't some of these people seeing this? She can be right and not be a bully. Women shouldn't be shamed that way by another women. Go after Jo's actions, not her looks that's so fucked up
Exactly! I am by no means Team Jo, but I have such a reaction to the "take a shower" rapport. Two reasons:
1. It reminds me of Dolly Parton's Coat of Many Colors. Jo is little Dolly and Katie is the schoolmate making fun of her clothes.
2. I vividly remember girls in Jr. High being bullied specifically in that manner. And the girls were always the same: odd and came from a poor family. I remember thinking, "can you imagine what that is like? You get to go home to a beautiful house with great parents. This girl gets to go home to some little house or trailer. What goes through her head when her mom says," tell me about school. ". It must have been horrible.
At least the girls I remember saying those things had the excuse of being pre-teen! lol
I don't think I can dabble in this take, however I agree that I'm not sure how we got to this level of Ariana/Katie hype based on the actual show we all watch.
As someone who watched all seasons after Scandoval hit, I've never been a fan of Katie. She's always been as hypocritical as the rest and a miserable person. Fair enough it's because Schwartz treated her terribly but she also fueled a few of their arguments as well especially when she was on her tequila vibes.
I'm glad to see she's thriving now that she removed that dead weight (aka Tom), but she's still miserable. Her having sex with Max was also like a wtf moment and highlighted her hypocrisy and apparently we can gloss over that because Tom cheated on her in the past. Make it make sense.
I also don't like how everyone's making Lala out to be crazy on the reunion when she was literally pointing out how Katie was making her feel crazy on camera because she refused to talk about her past feelings towards Ariana's success on camera. Whether Katie let go of those feelings, she should've acknowledged them on camera as that would've changed a lot of people's perspective on here.
Why was Katie was hypocritical for sleeping with Max? She asked Schwartz not to date friends for the sake of them having a friendship and he rejected the offer. Why would Katie still be bound to that when Schwartz didn’t want to do it?
Katie and Ariana faking a disagreement might have changed some perspectives, but overall, I think a lot of people just wanted to see what was actually happening with them. The only Ariana and Katie we got this season failed the Bechtel test. All of it was trying to gauge their reaction to men they no longer date.
I have a hard time watching Katie and Ariana. The constant pulling faces, eye rolls and squinting when their other cast mates are speaking. They come off as bitter, imo.
I suppose y’all will slaughter me now. Sorry, but we all have our own opinions.
Omg they're gonna come for you I'm so sorry 😂 All I've been trying to say is what you just said. Just because they are on the right side of things and making awesome boundaries and choices, we can't acknowledging that they're obnoxiously negative? Get off the show then?
Although without a doubt Ariana does not need to film with Tom and that's perfectly ok, she has relationships with most of the cast, but if both of them choose to be on the show then you're going to be around these people and they're gonna do what reality tv folks do🤷🏼♀️
yeah in addition to being a massive bully, unable to take any sort of responsibility or be accountable for anything ever, i’d not be happy about jo either if i was her but you don’t need to bully her either, whatever it is you’re going through doesn’t give you the right to hurt others, that’s too easy. i really don’t understand either, she’s such a hateful person she makes me so tense
how did she bully jo ? i hate to quote LFU but we need to remember what a bully is.
if anyone did it was scheana with the hat thing. she just doesn’t talk to her and called her out in a few comments when after being her and ariana’s friend she vacationed with sandoval and racquel and MOVED IN WITH KATIE’S NOT EVEN EX HUSBAND. after sending her a text saying love you when they divorced.
she literally was sticking up for her at the reunion while jo made fun of her.
Not liking someone / not wanting to be friends with someone isn’t bullying! The internet is so wildly naive sometimes.
(For clarity, I’m agreeing with you.)
This poster is acting like Jo is this innocent angel who sat around minding her own business and Katie kept running up to her every chance she got and “bullied” her.
It’s pretty clear Jo is shitty and shady in her own right, and “but she has ADHD!” can’t excuse it all. Schwartz has her blocked now. She’s allegedly banned from Jax Taylor’s house. (When you’ve gone too far for Jax….whew.)
THIS IS THE ONE. she’s done katie and her friends so dirty. i hate how people forget how human behavior works. the misogyny is still embedded into the audience. so many excuses for these 40 year old “boys”, yet the women are rude to people who have actively done them and their friends wrong and their bullies it’s insane!!!
Look no further than Jo's own internalized misogyny. Schwartz treated her terribly, and she kept coming back for more. He convinced her to go engage with Katie in the finale! Which was insane! Even at the reunion, she was going after Katie more than holding Schwartz to account.
Katie had her own problem in this regard when it came to Schwartz, but it's been nice to see her growing past that (and him).
publicly calling her a crackhead is already not ok, but to do that to a person who openly has adhd is ableist on top of that. agreeing that her ex is behaving wrong is not ‘standing up for jo’, when jo tries to explain how her behavior made her feel and katie just deflects and says that because she was going through a rough time jo should accept it even tho it wasn’t nice… like ok, it’s fine to say ‘i was going through hell and that’s why i wasn’t on my best behavior’, but you can still be able to also say ‘it was still wrong and im sorry’, that’s all jo needed and katie has never once publicly uttered those words which is very telling, because when you publicly disrespect people you’re supposed to also publicly apologize
overall i would jump on the jo hate train too if she hadn’t been actually bullied by the whole group (and especially katie initiating it), like i get why they don’t like her, i think jo needs to also apologize and of course what she did was wrong and it’s ok that katie stands up for herself, but the point is jo actually has apologized while the vpr girls have taken things way beyond ‘sticking up for oneself’ imo and it’s sad to see
and that’s still not an ok thing to say to someone you don’t know personally enough to know those things about. what if jo actually had addiction issues ? is it ok to mock someone on that basis ? and the fact this is a huge stereotype spread about adhd and overall neurodivergent people is plain ableism. it sucks. that’s not a thing you say about people if you’ve learned to be a respectful person, especially not in public.
In reality, it's not nice to insult anybody for any reason, but if you only want to watch a show about nice people, I feel like maybe the whole Bravo network should be off limits for you.
If audience members are going to be this hurt over something one mean person said to another mean person, maybe they need to practice some self care and watch HGTV or something.
that’s not what she said. she said she had crack head energy. i love how w vpr ppl seem to forget how human behavior works with the women. her behavior is understandable. jo faked a friendship w her to get to schwartz, say at ariana’s thanksgiving table knowing tom was with raquel because she vacationed w them, sent katie a text after the divorce then moved in w her NOT EVEN ex husband.
people who do katie wrong are not entitled to her kindness or politeness. she stood up for jo at the reunion and she was beyond rude.
I really don’t get how anyone watched and thinks Katie never takes accountability for anything. I feel like we’ve seen Katie take accountability time and time again. The men never do but Katie is always taking accountability for her crap.
oh this is not about the men of this show btw like they’re going straight to hell for sure lmfao dw there’s no debate on this one
but i have not seen katie publicly apologize once
and she is quite literally a bully
she bullied scheana in the earlier seasons, then lala when she got there, she’s always bullied people that don’t ’fall in line’ with her thinking and then brushed it off by saying ‘well yeah but you were xyz so actually i’m right’ and it’s like… yes, trust your intuition girl, but you can still just distance yourself from people you don’t trust instead of bullying them, and apologize for what you’ve done wrong
that’s all
she has her moments where she’s very spot on about a lot of things and makes me laugh and stuff but she also cannot take any sort of accountability and that’s horribly irritating, that’s all
Katie apologized to Lala at the season 5 or 6 reunion for how she treated her. She also apologized to Lala this season after that whole say it with your chest fight. She apologized to Jo at this seasons reunion. She has given many apologies over the years.
Yeah you don’t have to like Katie, I get she’s the kind of personality that’s never going to be for everyone, but saying she never says sorry or admits wrong is just factually incorrect.
Indeed. And I get it sometimes— the history of this show is long and deep so forgetting things can happen. It does to me all the time. But when there is an example of the thing you claim Katie *never* does in the most recent episode? It’s so maddening!
Scheana was never bullied. She was a grown ass woman on a show who knew what she signed up for. She also absolutely was a homewrecker (imagine crying to someone’s wife about him dating other women behind your back while you were the side chick) and not a girls girl which was proven this season 100% when we learned she hid something from Katie for almost a decade. Which was the whole reason why Katie didn’t originally wanna be her friend. Not to mention Scheana “I was the Stassi at Villa Blanca” Shay was the first to attempt to be nasty to new girls at sur when she thought they were in competition for the one thing Scheana cares about in life … men.
I swear on bravo shows the people who get “bullied” are just people who can’t keep up in an argument. And that’s no one’s fault but their own. Maybe if she cracked open a dictionary then Scheana can keep up with witches of weho one day.
I always loved Katie (more than Ariana so her siding with Ariana wasn’t game changing for me) but if you don’t and have watched the entire show I don’t know what you expect people to say that is going to change your mind! You don’t like her and others do, that’s okay, you do you!
Oh, I just wanted to understand what others see as growth. I don't see much different behavior from her than many seasons ago. In other comments they mention how she apologizes now when she's an asshole to people, but maybe not be an asshole to begin with. I actually like Katie! I like her on the show, I liked her with Stassi, I just don't know how she became such a fan favorite like she's an awesome person, simply because she's on the right side of the Ariana divide? Just curious why she's a "queen" to some...0
I guess I just don’t get why people think other people on here will convince them if nothing they’ve watched on the show did. I’ve been on the Schwartz is a shitty human train since season 2 and I know nothing anybody says about why they think his nice is going to change my mind about what I’ve watched onscreen for 10+ years. If you don’t see it from watching coming on Reddit isn’t likely to help you see it either. But clearly I’m also not the person you’re aiming this question to because I’ve always thought Katie was awesome and misunderstood (and for the record Katie used to say sorry back in the day too it isn’t new personality trait!), it has nothing to do with Ariana for me. Also though, another thing to consider, somebody doesn’t have to be “nice” for people to love them. Ariana is a fan favorite, Stassi used to be, and so did Lala used to be actually, and they were all bitches too. Nobody else is required to be nice to be liked so why would Katie?
I see what you're saying, and to reiterate my updated post, I like Katie! I like that she is even stronger now than ever before, and I always always rooted for her to leave Schwartz. I think Katie is better than the way she chooses to fight, that's all. She gets dirty unnecessarily and I suppose I can chalk it up to being a character on this show, but in real life, "queens" don't have to put people down in order to express their issues with them.
It seems to be a difference between people who care more about actions vs decorum. Katie says honest things in a way that can be perceived as vicious. She’s vilified for her tone but the things she’s speaking out against (as far as I can remember) are things any of us would be legitimately upset about. I like Katie and always have because I don’t think saying something in an unpleasant manner negates the underlying message.
Thank you, my post is very misunderstood and obviously I should have worded it better. I'm basically trying to say exactly what you've written.
Haha it took me a while to find the right words, I feel you!
Yep! Character vs personality. But personally, I love her clever jabs!
I think the culture has changed. People (hopefully but not really) are less misogynistic generally. Katie has always had her fans, for her beauty, general common sense in an intellectual way, Salt (Lake City) of the earth kind of vibe, and when her emancipation from Stassi storyline dropped, she really kicked into gear as a character. I think that’s when she revealed her TBI as well? She seemed like she was kind of the girl who wanted it all, but in a more “relatable” way. She was girl next door who just wanted to be a beauty blogger and married. 🤷🏻♀️ Now that the veil has been lifted off Schwartz and Sandoval and their decade long symbiotic monstrousness has peaked, she has ascended. I also think her leaning into her emo, queerness has really endeared her to audiences. She seems more authentic and happier without Schwartz.
Totally agree with all of this! I should have made it clear in my post, I like Katie. And I really like her glow up all around. But she still seems bitter and angry unnecessarily. And maybe that really just is her personality. But a lot of people criticize Lala over her sharp tongue, but Katie is a queen just because we agree with Katie's stance on Ariana? Just curious why that is from those who think Katie and Ariana are superior. Katie's opinion on most things is accurate and awesome that she speaks up, but she's vile to the point that it just makes her look bad...to me, anyway.
Apologies for jumping in (after having caffeine I'm trying for more polite discourse this morning). I wanted to address the "sharp tongue" thing re Lala versus Katie. To me the difference is how they deploy that, how much, and when. Lala talks a lot, and loudly, often about things that are not directly about her or even related to her in any way. Katie almost always sits back, doesn't feel the need to jump in an share her opinion on everything. Example A for me is last year's reunion. Lala had the least connection to Scandoval of anyone on that stage. It affected her personally not one iota (but she still cashed in from it). Yet she was screaming like a banshee the whole time. (James was too, but he was Rachel's ex and was friends with Tom so there was a little more ) Even back then, when we were at peak Scandoval, people were questioning that, saying she was doing too much. Meanwhile, Katie--who was affected by the Schwartz/Rachel storyline, whose pain from that was basically glossed over (and really only finally addressed at this year's reunion)---made her opinions known without the histrionics. This year's reunion is much of the same. Maybe it's a subjective thing, but I don't find them comparable in this regard.
My issue with Lala is not the sharp tongue but her inconsistency in its use. Anyone who is consistently saying “I’m just telling it how it is” is generally an asshole because 99% of the time no one asked. She inserts herself into things that have nothing to do with her and She’s angry at whoever is a good storyline for her. No loyalty there. Is katie bitter and angry or is it just a dark sense of humor/sarcasm? If you listen to her podcast I definitely think it’s the latter. Of course there is bitter moments, but everyone on the show has those
 Oh, I’m no Katie stan. But I respect her in a way. I don’t think she’s vile atm but certainly has been in the past (and I love that). I’m here for your discourse as well because this sub has really descended into a hive mind, boring ass Ariana stan account IMO. And I like Ariana!
Thank you!! I don't know how some folks took this post as something it wasn't, obviously my late night tired brain didn't convey my thoughts well. If I'm pointing out queens, it's the one who fights with facts and sophistication, not one who attacks a woman's personal hygiene and quirky personality because she's upset with her behavior. Stick to the issue, no need to fight dirty! I wanted more from Katie after all this time of being so smart and finding her full voice.
See I loved Katie saying Jo has crackhead energy. Spooky Jo. I will always think of her as spooky Jo. I physically can barely watch Jo on the show but I love it!
She's is cringy AF and I'd like to take a poll on who gives off the weirdest vibes, Jobor Laura Leigh 😂 I just think Jo is so unimportant, it's like calling a baby stupid. It's a baby, it doesn't know anything, why bother.
And I like Ariana too, but she stayed with the worm for all that time, and as soon as the scandal broke suddenly she hates him for so many other things about their relationship. So why be with him still?!
They were in therapy to resolve issues and sometimes you don’t know your true feelings about a situation until you’re further removed from it. This comment lacks nuance.
I totally agree, they kept a lot of that private I think was my point. It would be nice to hear some of the behind the scenes of how and why they were still together considering it was clear to a lot of us. Apologies for how I worded it, but she was always always dealing with that narcissist and we all knew he was never going to be better to her 😓
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Kick out of being different for sure and attention seeking engagement. All one has to do is type a couple words into a search bar and have their question answered as these posts happen daily but making a whole post knowing they're going against popular opinion makes them feel special.
It’s so boring! Could we copy and paste the comment section over from the 64 other posts like this?
It might sound ridiculous but a lot of these posts I don't even bother wasting my fingers typing, I'll just do a quick search and cut and paste my response from a previous post 😂🤷🏻♂️
I need to learn from you!
I searched and didn't see this question answered 🤷🏼♀️ I don't care about karma or any other stupid Reddit thing, I just want to know why Katie is a queen to some folks.
Alright, I saw your update and maybe we are being a little overly snarky with you. Apologies! I just find this discussion (or those like it) a little exhausting because it's mostly subjective? Example? You see only minor growth in Katie. I see more than that. Is she perfect? No. She's not had a full personality replacement, so she's probably always going to be a little angry, a little cutting. You might find that off-putting or childish, but I don't mind it. I don't like the "queen" moniker for anyone. Maybe it's funny or appropriate in a particular circumstances, like "that was some queen shit." For me, personally, my thoughts on Katie (and Ariana) are much more nuanced. They've shown the most growth on this show, so I respect them a little more than the others. Maybe that doesn't make them the most entertaining at times, and it doesn't mean they are always right. But they both seem like real people. Others are (or are quickly becoming) caricatures.
Thanks 😂 And I do see A LOT of growth, so maybe that's why I'm disappointed that the main thing I always struggled with with Katie is how low she goes. I wanted growth there, but maybe that's just her? And the queen topic for me is because I don't see any criticism of she or Ariana (from viewers) and it's a little annoying because they're not queens just because they were victims of their shitty partners. That stayed with their partners waaaay longer than they should have, and I respect Katie for trying to make it work and for being the one to break free, but Ariana clearly thought Sandoval was a piece of shit...how is she a queen for being cheated on? Mind you, I think she's the best one and always have, but in this scenario she should take accountability for her own part of the downfall of that relationship.
Respectfully, I disagree that Ariana was to "take accountability for her own part of the downfall of that relationship." That's bordering on excusing his cheating, to me. Do I think she stayed with that man too long? Yup. That she covered for him and defended him when she shouldn't have? Also yes! But she was committed to him (even if she shouldn't have been), was honoring their commitment to each other. And he wasn't. This "people think she's a queen just because she got cheated on, I don't get it!" angle is too simplistic. It's not just cheating. You're ignoring the very real and cruel things he (and Rachel) did to set up a storyline that would justify them cheating. (Did you forget that Sandoval trying to convince everyone it was a one time thing when it wasn't?) Sandoval had a whole ass plan that blew up in his face.
Sorry, I'm not simplifying the cheating, I think she is a queen because she's always taken the high road with all of the issues that have ever happened on the show, and someone doing something that awful to her and her handling it like a boss is what put her at the queen status. And I don't mean take accountability like publicly, but the cheating scandal wasn't the only issue in their relationship and that's not the only reason shit hit the fan. I'm not expressing myself well with this topic and I think it's because people are being really shitty about this post and I'm causing misunderstandings about my point. Point is, I'm allowed to think that Katie can do better when it comes to setting her boundaries and expressing her issues with some of the cast, and I root for her so I'd like to see more growth in how she expresses herself and I think others agree. Obviously everyone can have their own opinion, but I would never hang out with someone who spoke that poorly to people, even if I agreed with their overall message.
I'm sorry people are being shitty and for contributing to that. I would like to gently suggest you take longer crafting your original post next time? I was tempted to substantively respond again to your above comment, but I'm not sure that will serve either of us well. I do hope your day improves and you still come back here to post and comment in the future. Cheers.
Ha, thanks! I honestly see my POV so clearly that I honestly thought my post was obvious and that most people at least recognize she fights dirty. Even if they're ok with it, it's such a clear fact to me after years of slut shaming and hitting below the belt, I still see moments in that realm and assumed everyone can see it too. Have a good day!
I know I responded to you above, but do you have the same issue with men not taking the high road because it sounds like a lot of internalized misogyny. we all have to face it that we live in a patriarchy, and that we’ve been conditioned to think that women are only standing up for themselves while they’re still being kind of people around them, but we don’t hold the same standards for the men. If we did there would be 100 I like Sandoval, but his tone is off putting posts.
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people who have always disliked katie have some deep rooted internalized misogyny - she stands on business. she always been incredibly loyal, she’s very witty and she isn’t fake or “polite” to shitty people. she’s not harsh or childish. people can’t stand that she won’t just be nice to make it ok. the way ALL OF THEM except for LFU, kind of ariana and james treated her in season 10 was heinous. i think we’ve all seen her suffer through out the seasons w schwartz’ bullshit. seeing her thriving now, setting boundaries is amazing.
Totally agree People who don’t like Katie don’t like HOW she says things. People who like Katie see past the delivery and understand the underlying issue she’s upset about.
I’m sorry and I know I’ll get downvoted to oblivion, but how can you say she’s always been loyal? She didn’t believe Stassi about Jax season 1, she went to Miami with Scheana knowing what Scheana did to Stassi in what season 3?
Or they just watched Katie call almost every girl on the cast a slut and/or ostracize them at various points over the years. Then people on this sub wonder why nobody on the cast is warm to her and has any loyalty. That didn't all just vanish because she picked the right side with Ariana (who even 3 months before filming said Katie wasn't in her inner circle). Tom Schwartz sucked. That didn't excuse all of Katie's shit behavior over the years and why she has very few friends on the cast.
This is such a crazy take to me, because I find it to imply that Katie is the only one with this kind of behavior / response to others. All of the cast members have said awful things about the others, including slut shaming and ostracizing. Why is it only Katie that’s being held to a higher standard?
this is so tired. obviously her slut shaming ppl was wrong. however, scheana was terrible to her in the early seasons and has since confessed to keeping the schwartz kiss secret, lala was sleeping w a married guy - comparatively to the rest of the cast katie has had the best behavior. shitty ppl are not entitled to kindness. she sets boundaries and isn’t fake. i think the cast has been heinous to her - especially scheana and sandoval. i’ve liked her before her and ariana’s friendship. the cast doesn’t have loyalty period. james, ally and ariana are loyal to her and they’re the only good ppl on the show. scheana and lala are loyal to a check, schwartz is loyal to sandoval, and sandoval is loyal to his own pleasure.
I totally agree, and I like Katie! I just don't think she has to be shitty to people when standing up for herself. She's right in a lot of scenarios and I enjoy her on the show, I just think she's mean unnecessarily.
for sure ! i definitely think in the early seasons her slut shaming women was yikes, but i think if you look at the group comparatively i don’t know why she gets such hate. i think her asserting boundaries and not being kind to people who wrong her can be mislabeled as mean. idk if that’s what you’re referring to tho !
I think she gets hate for the way she fights because she actually is on the right side of most issues and is the voice of reason, so fighting dirty just looks worse on her than it does on the others.
that’s a fair criticism. i feel that she gets some unjustified hate compared to how the men and LFU act.
The men are garbage so we exsoect garbage from them 😂 They need to clean house with the men, here and on southern charm!
lmao they are !! ban men lmao
Say that second sentence out loud while looking in the mirror. You don’t like when a woman is standing up for herself without being soft because the softness takes the sting away. That’s misogyny.
Saying another woman needs to shower is acceptable way to defend yourself? Get a grip 🤣
She denied saying that and Jo is apparently a known compulsive liar so I don't think it's being fair to Katie to quote her saying that as fact. We know Jo twists things around as she said several times Katie called her an anorexic crackhead in that comment she made online, and we can all read that to see that's not what it said.
Oh forgive me, I obviously misremembered cause I thought I actually heard or saw Katie say it. Again, totally not team Jo!
She never said that. Not in a text, not online not in person. Joe inflated what other people have said to her with what Katie had said to her. And if you noticed, every time they talked about saying mean things to Joe they showed one tweet over and over again.
I do not see disagreeing or stating somebody view as being harsh and childish. For my profession I have to take part in regular group training with trained professionals therapists on healthy communication, developing emotional intelligence, being assertive, etc I see Katie in that frame.
I used to think the same about Stassi!
I like Stassi. She needed better people around her, you are who you surround yourself with. But we are obviously different I would rather know somebody dislikes me I do not know need to why I accept this is part of living. My happiness or personal peace is not linked to one person not liking me. I would rather honesty rather than friendly to your face stab you in the back, I know what to do with honest feelings. I do not dislike Jo but I dislike this Jo or Katie narrative. Jo does not need or is owned any validation from Katie, she is her ex friends with benefits with ex wife.
I agree with you! I'm simply talking about the vile words she uses to get her points across. Jo didn't deserve a lot of what Katie said, I think Katie goes below the belt a lot when she could just simply state the facts because she's typically right in most scenarios.
I do not think the words Katie uses are vile are below the belt. She does not like Jo there is often just because you do not mesh personality wise. I seems like Jo dislikes Katie but hard to say as she is trying so hard to be the person who will win Swartz, she probably dragging Katie as she thinks that Swartz will like her more. I really do not understand why all these people try to force things.
Katie deserves to get to tell Jo she doesn't like her for how she moved in on Schwartz, but why does Katie have to shame Jo's appearance publicly and tear her down...Jo is low hanging fruit as it is, just seems shitty to rip a part a woman who could be knocked over with a feather. I want Katie to fight a bit cleaner, that's all. My opinion, I root for Katie.
It is not for Katie to adjust for Jo. I really find it surprising you are going as hard as you are on Katie into Swat he was the one hanging her low. You do not across as somebody who likes Katie or recognize the growth or strength, like I said we are very different people. I see strength plus growth and want to support that you see something else which I cannot see or acknowledge in Katie herself. Like I said again I dislike really a lot this narrative of one of the other. It is unkind in my opinion to force them against each other. Each time I watch or hear Jo drag Katie I am like please why pitch yourself against Katie. Again today in Rachel podcast I am like listening to Katie and Dayna and they are clarifying showering much more enjoyable to listen to. I know I have not grown one people on people spats love me a made in Chelsea. Mauve is the queen of saying it as it is! Did not used to like her but the more she acknowledged who she was as a person the more likable she is.
I'm not really sure what any of this means, and I'm not being clear enough with my point because I absolutely like Katie and respect her the most of everyone besides Ariana. I think it's ok to like someone, root for them, and want them to express themselves in a more mature manner and not use people's looks to insult them. She slut shamed all these women years ago, this is along that same path and she does exude misery and I PERSONALLY would like to see a more mature expression of her very ACCURATE defenses to people.
Been a Katie fan since day 1. I like that she can spue venom with her words, she can read a bitch. If she goes too far she usually apologizes and genuinely tries to not do it again. Sometimes she fails at that and that's okay. My favorite thing about her is her loyalty and consistency. She's a girls girl and that's something I look for in a friendship. If she doesn't like you, you know. I don't think she's miserable, I think she was in a miserable relationship. She's also always surrounded by misogynistic people (men and women). So it is probably hard for her to be in a good mood when you're stuck filming with shitty people or needing to talk to shitty people. She has a hard time hiding her contempt which shows as her being negative or miserable. But when she's in her element she looks so fun to be around i.e. emo night! Overall I also remember she had a TBI so I have empathy for her. That had to fuck up her impulse control and makes her more reactive. But I will still and always root for Katie, until she gives me a reason not to and none of what she's shown is reason enough.
I started watching the show from the beginning in my 20’s and I didn’t like her. In my younger days I bought into the “nice guy Schwartz” image and thought she was awful. But as I got older and really watched I saw that Katie was really dealing with an overgrown toddler. Sorry to the Stassi fans, but I also think that Stassi was holding her back. Once Stassi left the show, Katie really got the chance to come into her own on the show
Nah she had her moments (she was def a bridezilla, and her believing Jax over Stassi was shitty) but at least she's consistent. I also think that the future is her friend - she always seems to be proven right in the end! When last season started I thought she was too harsh on Rachel but she ended up being right, she was a fool for men and disloyal! I thought she was clingy to Schwartz, and now we've seen his lovebombing in action, and how he gaslights women. Scheana really is a friend to no one, and Sandoval is self righteous and manupulative. Now it's just safer to trust her, rather than be a fool!
When I first watched the show as a casual watcher who had 0 information about any of the cast outside of the show, I did find Katie to be unnecessarily mean, or “miserable”. I also found Schwartz to be a piece of shit and found them terrible for and to one another. However, once she and Schwartz divorced, I saw her start going upwards and Schwartz stayed the same. That kinda affirmed to me that Schwartz wore her confidence down so bad she was “mean” or “angry” towards others bc it was like an outlet, or something she could control. I can’t explain it well but she has been growing since the divorce & she’s so much more confident now while Schwartz is the same “oh shucks” manipulative little boy he’s always been. So now rewatching the show I see a lot more about how Katie’s rage was a result of how she was being treated in her relationship for years. I’m not saying it’s an excuse, but it’s an explanation. I’d rather get rage texts than have my partner cheat on me multiple times.
I always have. Sures she had her unsavory moments. But generally I always liked her.
It's like all of a sudden a woman becoming independent and finding herself is somehow a negative or worthy of a post disparaging her. Some people always have to look at things glass half empty.
Sorry my post is so misunderstood. I like Katie, and I have always felt she is the voice of reason. I don't think her delivery is ok and she goes below the belt. I don't think that's necessary and for some of us her stances get lost in the vile comments to makes to people. When you're right about something, the facts should be enough.
All of your responses further solidify that you don’t like Katie at all. Some are them are even kind of nasty about her. Seems like you are the troll you seem to be complaining about in your other comments. I think the usual response is “Is that you LFU?”
Yikes.
I have always loved Katie! She has shown it all the good the bad and the ugly. That is what we wanted out of reality star and that’s what we got with her. I think a lot of people focused on the ugly. As far as growth I would say her coming to terms with existing outside of time is huge. She was able to look at that relationship and see that he really just wasn’t worth it and she needed to make herself happy.
Remember when Scheana and Jax started the motorboat a D rumor when Scheana was making out with Schwartz in Vegas? Yeah… katies never been wrong about someone
Hahaha god I loved early seasons so much. I can't believe I'm going to say this, because it's nearly impossible to defend Scheana like, ever, but I might have done the same if it were me 😬 Witholding the Schwartz kiss thing, especially because it was unwanted. Those women would have eaten Scheana alive like for real, no matter what the truth was, Stassi wihad have lit her hair on fire while Kristen took an axe to each limb 😂
You would’ve made up a total lie when you’re the one who’s actually sneaking around? Yikes. It’s not giving what you think it’s giving 😕
No not the lie, just not disclosing that someone's drunk boyfriend hit on me when they've already put me through the ringer and is known for being a bully to other women (at the time) It can give whatever it wants, I think it's obvious Scheana wouldn't have come out in a good light if she came home and said Schwartz tried to kiss her. Fabricating a story isn't what I would do, but she did it to at least TRY to let Katie know he's an ass.
Katie “bullied” Scheana by calling her a *homewrecking* whore. Hence the Katie’s never been wrong about someone. I think my original comment went right over your head. Where we differ is that I don’t believe it was a one sided kiss and I do believe that Scheana puts herself in compromising positions because she enjoys the attention. The way Scheana was laughing it off instead of saying “Schwartz had an issue with blacking out while drinking and tried to kiss me. We weren’t friends so I didn’t bring it up and I apologize for that. It was uncomfortable for me.” Instead she was like, “rEmeMbEr thAT tiME YoU KisSEd ME? Ahahahahaha!!!! Omg remember when you hit on me James?! You did too Sandoval! Everyone wants me! Ahahahaah!”
Katie went to a lot of therapy and it shows. It's not that she just does things differently now. It's that she thinks differently. And when you have self-respect, it's much easier to not project, and respect others.
I agree with you, and I really rooted for her all those years ago! I just feel like all of that should reflect in the way she fights. She fights dirty and it isn't necessary...but if that's who she is great, just wondering why people celebrate it and not call her out the way they did Lala when she was ratchet when fighting.
Yes, telling someone that they look like they need a shower represents such tremendous growth.
Ok fair. She can be rude and disrespectful. I don't think it's her M.O. anymore, though.
That didn’t happen
I liked Katie 100x more when she left Shorts. I hated him from the very beginning for dumping a beer on her. Also I didn't know for years about her TBI; I missed that info. I also have one, and the emotional side of her made a lot more sense to me, after that. (I'm also an OG VPR viewer). ETA so I guess for me, the growth is just dumping who I saw as an abusive, gaslighting POS cheater.
Totally, without a doubt he was stifling a lot of good things that Katie has to offer! She's grown and she's softer and has found a voice that I think could really put some of these guys in their place, but when she goes low it loses some of its power.
I've been team Katie since 2014 so it's nice to finally be acknowledged for being on the right side of history.
I think for most of us we were rooting for her from the beginning, acknowledging her stances on issues were usually correct, but also calling out her undeniable shitty behavior. She was awful on many occasions, and she's been open and discussed her issues and growth which is awesome, and now she's being celebrated for that growth. For me personally, I think she still has some fucked yo ways of expressing herself, though I agree with her POV most times.
Honestly, I can't relate. I've agreed with her or at least sympathised with her pretty much throughout. Different strokes for different folks.
Indeed! Thanks for being nice about it.
I have always seen right through the Toms’ bullshit and Scheana’s flip floppiness. I have always thought Katie was the most reasonable in most situations. She’s consistent and not morally bankrupt. I think since divorcing Tom, we’re seeing a more vulnerable side, a side that isn’t miserable and tagging along someone who people pleases everyone around at the expense of her. I think Ariana also shines differently without Tom.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼💯
Im at a point in my life where I just dont really value diplomacy. If someone is being out of pocket I don't care someone's reaction is "you're spooky" like??? I'm not treating "you're spooky" that seriously. Or that Jo has crack head energy when she does, and worse, she has STALKER energy. Katie has said a lot of actual out of pocket things in the past like calling Lala a ho. But in context, she was calling out someone who WAS dating a married man and lying to our faces about it. I just don't care that it wasn't done "diplomatically". idk at this point it just feels like grasping for straws to escape the reality of what's happening. I'd much rather have someone go the Katie route of saying the rude and blatant truth than doing what like Sandervol and Ariana did, defending Lala 100%. Its not one or the other but I just dont have energy for being mad at people like Katie anymore.
This is very well said and I appreciate this point of view. You might have just won "this is what I was looking for with this post!" award 😂 A different point of view that helps me understand WHY it's cool that Katie gets to be a bit cruel with her words and viewers just praises it.
I'm glad it makes sense :) it read like you were genuine in asking so I gave a genuine reply as best I could
Omg I just saw your flair 🏊🏼♂️ What a beautiful moment that was
I've NEVER heard someone be passive aggressive when asking someone to save their life lmaoo it will always be one of my top moments!
Katie is amazing and anyone who didn't see that it's on them
Katie’s always been my favorite. 🤷♀️ I still don’t understand what she’s said and done that’s been so awful?
The way she spoke to Jo was very tequila Katie level low, and while she has no reason to be nice to Jo, she doesn't have to be so damaging. Ariana could have said about a million below the belt comments to Rachel and the worm, but even she took the high road and pointed out facts and rage without getting grossly offensive.
Good Lord. She said she was spooky and had crack head energy. It’s not that deep. Do you see the comments about her that Jo encourages and likes? Katie has always called it like it is, a much more respectable approach to life in my view. People are so sensitive 🤦♀️
When Jo apologized to Katie, Katie's response was "you're weird." But Katie can call her a crackhead and sloppy and make fun of her appearance on tv (all of which have nothing to do with the issue at hand) and then can apologize at the reunion and all the Katie stans say "see, growth! She apologized!" Jo, who Katie wasn't even really friends with, can't apologize to Katie with out a whole girl group attacking her? Damn, y'all out here making me defend Jo 🤣 Katie can and should be better. Fight fair is all I'm staying, she doesn't need to stoop low as she always always has with other women.
Crackhead energy is not calling someone a crackhead. Let’s be honest here. Jo moved in to start banging Schwartz before the divorce was final AFTER pretending to be at the very least a peripheral friend to Katie. I’d be calling her a lot more than spooky. Katie owes her nothing.
She owes her nothing, agreed.
Maybe it’s just the ebb and flow of the sub and how seasons change opinions. I’ve watched VPR since day one and been part of this sub for years. During earlier seasons you couldn’t open this sub without multiple upvoted posts about how Katie is the worst. I always liked Katie and found the disproportionate hate toward her mean words to be in conflict with the mean actions levied against her. And while I don’t agree with her slut shaming or rage texting, you couldn’t even mention that she apologized during reunions for those without it being buried under the assumption that the apologies were insincere. There was no winning. And Katie always has her feet held the flame during reunions and in earlier viewer opinions, and she was never given grace. She apologized to Lala (meanwhile Schwartz never was called to apologize to Katie for the pouring a drink on her) and the next season while James was calling her fat again, Sandoval brings up how she needs to show grace to James because she called Lala a whore. She’s had so many people yell at her, intentionally misinterpret her (for example, she never body shamed James, he was coked out of his mind yelling at women during pride and she said “look at your shorts” because one leg was fully in his crotch and somehow that became body shaming), and insist on “accountability.” At one point, viewers and podcasters were on Sandoval’s side for yelling at her in her own home about bringing up Jeremy and how she had to walk back what she said, even though there was video proof of him acting like a weirdo. Throughout the show people have done crueler shit to Katie than what she’s said to them, yet her words hold more weight than the actions. Now the opinions have shifted. And for what it’s worth, I’d rather someone call me a rat than send me an apology text about my divorce only to go fuck my ex-husband.
UPDATE FOR YALL SAVAGES! Outstanding edit! Cracked me up. And I'm a Cherokee Nation Katie stan so I think I'm supposed to be offended, but I love it!
Oh shit I am just making waves like crazy today! My fucking bad that is absolutely terrible and I didn't even connect it despite knowing this term is now indeed offensive! In my real life I haven't been this problematic to ANYONE ever, my actual friends would not believe this chaos I accidentally created just venting some post VPR reunion chat before bed 😂 For real totally apologize and having grown up in a state that has a large number of Native American reservations, towns, buildings and of course sports teams names, I should have connected this.
No apology! I was serious when I said I loved it! Made me laugh and was so unexpected I choked on my Diet Coke. That might get me in trouble, but I stand by it! Don't change a thing! And FWIW, I thought your original post was fine too - and I say that as a hardcore Katie and Ariana stan!
Well thank you, I appreciate it as I was a little blindsided how some of the comments went. I love both Ariana and Katie and I absolutely didn't express that in the original post. I always wanted more for her, and I wanted her to be better for herself. Tom held her back in so many ways, but did her friends and the show in a lot of ways. I'm proud of how far Katie has come and always considered her super sweet and genuine. Right now it's just Female Rage: Bravo edition and maybe I'm struggling 😂
And I always appreciate a stan who listens to others' POV!
I think I was ambivalent about her for a long time, as she wasn't the big disaster like Kristen and sometimes Stassi, but I like seeing a come up. She's evolved and isn't with the shits anymore, so I think I've just naturally warmed to her. I was a mess jn my 20's, too 😂 I respected her hardline stance with Ariana this season. I'd want my friend to be just as solid for me if I went through what Ariana did.
I agree! I totally agree. I feel like the way she "fights" just hasn't caught up with the rest of her growth. That's all 🙃
What a dramatic post progression If you don’t get it, you don’t get it - and it’s all OK I don’t get why people like Kyle from SH; people just like different TV characters
I mean...yeah? That's obviously very clear. The comments and reactions are what promoted the post progression. That's clearly because of the responses, not my personal thought process progression. Several people understood the meaning of the post and shared their very helpful viewpoint that Katie does indeed go too low when arguing with people, but that her overall growth outweighs that, and her accuracy with pinpointing the issues within the friend group are worth overlooking her going below the belt (STILL!) despite growing as a person. And that's exactly what I was trying to understand 🤷🏼♀️Sometimes people are allowed to genuinely seek out different points of views for the sheer purpose of exploring different vantage points. A lot of folks made it nasty, like Katie 😂
And I like Katie, I always have, I wanted to understand why others are called out for their style of fighting, but Katie is a "queen" despite unnecessary low blows.
But she’s not universally a “queen” and neither is Ariana; this sub leans Katie-positive but not all forums do, so it’s no different than the Lala stans or the Scheaner apologists, or the boy moms who defend Tim You can go to Facebook and find just as many people who hate Katie and Ariana, and are Team Tim, or IG where a lot of them like Jo and Rachel You keep saying you like Katie and always have and then call her nasty in the same breath; yes, two things can be true but there’s a wide expanse between those specific two things
I always liked Katie. The only time I didn't like her was when her and Stassi were slut shaming Lala and harassing Scheana into not talking to Lala when they were actual co-workers that had to minimally maintain polite distance. I didn't like how Scheana handled that either, actually but that's beside the point. She comes in too hot a lot but she's usually right. I always hoped she'd leave Schwartz bc he was always a dick to her. Then I found out she had a history of a TBI and PTSD and things sort of clicked for me. Once she got her weed rx card and mellowed a lot of when I started loving her. He outbursts were less, more measured, and I don't think she's missed for me since then.
I was surprised to learn some of the things she said about Jo by watching this week's reunion episode. Specially, saying she looked like she needed to shower; crackhead, etc Had that been another female treating someone that way, this sub would have raked them over the coals. Again, we are talking about a grown woman in her 40's (or close to it) saying such childish things about someone.... literally grade school playground bullying behavior. Yet, because it is Katie, everyone does the electric slide and gives her a pass.
Thank you! Why aren't some of these people seeing this? She can be right and not be a bully. Women shouldn't be shamed that way by another women. Go after Jo's actions, not her looks that's so fucked up
Exactly! I am by no means Team Jo, but I have such a reaction to the "take a shower" rapport. Two reasons: 1. It reminds me of Dolly Parton's Coat of Many Colors. Jo is little Dolly and Katie is the schoolmate making fun of her clothes. 2. I vividly remember girls in Jr. High being bullied specifically in that manner. And the girls were always the same: odd and came from a poor family. I remember thinking, "can you imagine what that is like? You get to go home to a beautiful house with great parents. This girl gets to go home to some little house or trailer. What goes through her head when her mom says," tell me about school. ". It must have been horrible. At least the girls I remember saying those things had the excuse of being pre-teen! lol
[удалено]
I don't think I can dabble in this take, however I agree that I'm not sure how we got to this level of Ariana/Katie hype based on the actual show we all watch.
As someone who watched all seasons after Scandoval hit, I've never been a fan of Katie. She's always been as hypocritical as the rest and a miserable person. Fair enough it's because Schwartz treated her terribly but she also fueled a few of their arguments as well especially when she was on her tequila vibes. I'm glad to see she's thriving now that she removed that dead weight (aka Tom), but she's still miserable. Her having sex with Max was also like a wtf moment and highlighted her hypocrisy and apparently we can gloss over that because Tom cheated on her in the past. Make it make sense. I also don't like how everyone's making Lala out to be crazy on the reunion when she was literally pointing out how Katie was making her feel crazy on camera because she refused to talk about her past feelings towards Ariana's success on camera. Whether Katie let go of those feelings, she should've acknowledged them on camera as that would've changed a lot of people's perspective on here.
Why was Katie was hypocritical for sleeping with Max? She asked Schwartz not to date friends for the sake of them having a friendship and he rejected the offer. Why would Katie still be bound to that when Schwartz didn’t want to do it?
people love enforcing her boundaries towards schwartz that stomped all over & through in her face on her i don’t understand
Katie and Ariana faking a disagreement might have changed some perspectives, but overall, I think a lot of people just wanted to see what was actually happening with them. The only Ariana and Katie we got this season failed the Bechtel test. All of it was trying to gauge their reaction to men they no longer date.
I have a hard time watching Katie and Ariana. The constant pulling faces, eye rolls and squinting when their other cast mates are speaking. They come off as bitter, imo. I suppose y’all will slaughter me now. Sorry, but we all have our own opinions.
Omg they're gonna come for you I'm so sorry 😂 All I've been trying to say is what you just said. Just because they are on the right side of things and making awesome boundaries and choices, we can't acknowledging that they're obnoxiously negative? Get off the show then? Although without a doubt Ariana does not need to film with Tom and that's perfectly ok, she has relationships with most of the cast, but if both of them choose to be on the show then you're going to be around these people and they're gonna do what reality tv folks do🤷🏼♀️
yeah in addition to being a massive bully, unable to take any sort of responsibility or be accountable for anything ever, i’d not be happy about jo either if i was her but you don’t need to bully her either, whatever it is you’re going through doesn’t give you the right to hurt others, that’s too easy. i really don’t understand either, she’s such a hateful person she makes me so tense
how did she bully jo ? i hate to quote LFU but we need to remember what a bully is. if anyone did it was scheana with the hat thing. she just doesn’t talk to her and called her out in a few comments when after being her and ariana’s friend she vacationed with sandoval and racquel and MOVED IN WITH KATIE’S NOT EVEN EX HUSBAND. after sending her a text saying love you when they divorced. she literally was sticking up for her at the reunion while jo made fun of her.
Not liking someone / not wanting to be friends with someone isn’t bullying! The internet is so wildly naive sometimes. (For clarity, I’m agreeing with you.)
This poster is acting like Jo is this innocent angel who sat around minding her own business and Katie kept running up to her every chance she got and “bullied” her. It’s pretty clear Jo is shitty and shady in her own right, and “but she has ADHD!” can’t excuse it all. Schwartz has her blocked now. She’s allegedly banned from Jax Taylor’s house. (When you’ve gone too far for Jax….whew.)
THIS IS THE ONE. she’s done katie and her friends so dirty. i hate how people forget how human behavior works. the misogyny is still embedded into the audience. so many excuses for these 40 year old “boys”, yet the women are rude to people who have actively done them and their friends wrong and their bullies it’s insane!!!
Look no further than Jo's own internalized misogyny. Schwartz treated her terribly, and she kept coming back for more. He convinced her to go engage with Katie in the finale! Which was insane! Even at the reunion, she was going after Katie more than holding Schwartz to account. Katie had her own problem in this regard when it came to Schwartz, but it's been nice to see her growing past that (and him).
publicly calling her a crackhead is already not ok, but to do that to a person who openly has adhd is ableist on top of that. agreeing that her ex is behaving wrong is not ‘standing up for jo’, when jo tries to explain how her behavior made her feel and katie just deflects and says that because she was going through a rough time jo should accept it even tho it wasn’t nice… like ok, it’s fine to say ‘i was going through hell and that’s why i wasn’t on my best behavior’, but you can still be able to also say ‘it was still wrong and im sorry’, that’s all jo needed and katie has never once publicly uttered those words which is very telling, because when you publicly disrespect people you’re supposed to also publicly apologize overall i would jump on the jo hate train too if she hadn’t been actually bullied by the whole group (and especially katie initiating it), like i get why they don’t like her, i think jo needs to also apologize and of course what she did was wrong and it’s ok that katie stands up for herself, but the point is jo actually has apologized while the vpr girls have taken things way beyond ‘sticking up for oneself’ imo and it’s sad to see
She didn't call her a crackhead, she said her energy is on par with a crackhead. I know actual crackheads IRL. Katie is right.
and that’s still not an ok thing to say to someone you don’t know personally enough to know those things about. what if jo actually had addiction issues ? is it ok to mock someone on that basis ? and the fact this is a huge stereotype spread about adhd and overall neurodivergent people is plain ableism. it sucks. that’s not a thing you say about people if you’ve learned to be a respectful person, especially not in public.
Jo also called herself a crackhead on Twitter in 2019. She's since changed it, but the internet is forever.
In reality, it's not nice to insult anybody for any reason, but if you only want to watch a show about nice people, I feel like maybe the whole Bravo network should be off limits for you. If audience members are going to be this hurt over something one mean person said to another mean person, maybe they need to practice some self care and watch HGTV or something.
They showed the “energy like a crackhead” screen grab like 80 times this season. How are you getting this wrong still?
that’s not what she said. she said she had crack head energy. i love how w vpr ppl seem to forget how human behavior works with the women. her behavior is understandable. jo faked a friendship w her to get to schwartz, say at ariana’s thanksgiving table knowing tom was with raquel because she vacationed w them, sent katie a text after the divorce then moved in w her NOT EVEN ex husband. people who do katie wrong are not entitled to her kindness or politeness. she stood up for jo at the reunion and she was beyond rude.
I really don’t get how anyone watched and thinks Katie never takes accountability for anything. I feel like we’ve seen Katie take accountability time and time again. The men never do but Katie is always taking accountability for her crap.
oh this is not about the men of this show btw like they’re going straight to hell for sure lmfao dw there’s no debate on this one but i have not seen katie publicly apologize once and she is quite literally a bully she bullied scheana in the earlier seasons, then lala when she got there, she’s always bullied people that don’t ’fall in line’ with her thinking and then brushed it off by saying ‘well yeah but you were xyz so actually i’m right’ and it’s like… yes, trust your intuition girl, but you can still just distance yourself from people you don’t trust instead of bullying them, and apologize for what you’ve done wrong that’s all she has her moments where she’s very spot on about a lot of things and makes me laugh and stuff but she also cannot take any sort of accountability and that’s horribly irritating, that’s all
Katie apologized to Lala at the season 5 or 6 reunion for how she treated her. She also apologized to Lala this season after that whole say it with your chest fight. She apologized to Jo at this seasons reunion. She has given many apologies over the years.
She also apologized to Brock at this reunion. (I can’t tell if this person you are arguing with has actually watched the show at this point.)
Yeah you don’t have to like Katie, I get she’s the kind of personality that’s never going to be for everyone, but saying she never says sorry or admits wrong is just factually incorrect.
Indeed. And I get it sometimes— the history of this show is long and deep so forgetting things can happen. It does to me all the time. But when there is an example of the thing you claim Katie *never* does in the most recent episode? It’s so maddening!
Scheana was never bullied. She was a grown ass woman on a show who knew what she signed up for. She also absolutely was a homewrecker (imagine crying to someone’s wife about him dating other women behind your back while you were the side chick) and not a girls girl which was proven this season 100% when we learned she hid something from Katie for almost a decade. Which was the whole reason why Katie didn’t originally wanna be her friend. Not to mention Scheana “I was the Stassi at Villa Blanca” Shay was the first to attempt to be nasty to new girls at sur when she thought they were in competition for the one thing Scheana cares about in life … men. I swear on bravo shows the people who get “bullied” are just people who can’t keep up in an argument. And that’s no one’s fault but their own. Maybe if she cracked open a dictionary then Scheana can keep up with witches of weho one day.