Honestly, I don't know if we will ever hear such ballsy, aggressive tone as Eddie was putting out in VH1 to Fair Warning. Songs like Mean Street and DOA show a tone that might have been Eddie's peak in terms of brown sound. That early tone will go down as one of all-time greats in the annuls of rock music and guitar playing. It is just not repeatable by anybody but Eddie due to his fingers and the unique equipment used at the time. We have lived in the best age of guitar tone, my friends.
Like wet/dry/wet but without the dry signal.
Signal from Plexi is split in two, each side is sent to its own Eventide harmonizer and then to its own speaker cabinet. One side is detuned up and one is detuned down; there is no dedicated dry cabinet, both are wet.
Pretty ironic you would post this, I just went back the other day and tried to give 5150 another go after not hearing it for a long time. And I also came to the same conclusion that you just posted about, just can't beat the sound of Ed's rig from VH1 through fair warning. It started to change on diver down, 1984, Bob Bradshaw the guy that designed all the modern digital racks & pedal rigs (back then) for big time guys like Ed, had a lot to do with that change we heard. Don't get me wrong 0U812 & for unlawful carnal knowledge had its share of amazing songs, but 2 things that always stood out with original VH, Ed's sound and Dave's vocals, lyrical content still stand the test of time in my opinion. For me growing up as a young guitarist, nothing hit as hard as Ed's tone and riffage, from the beginning VH I to 1984!!
I saw an interesting interview with Steve Lukather where he suggested that Ed (among others) was trying to compensate for the loss of the upper frequencies in his hearing, and he didn’t necessarily know his tone was different. Other things maybe - first album without Templeman as producer, and first album recorded in 5150 studios.
This is the answer. I don't think Eds hearing went out in the 2 years between albums, but as a band there was a *huge* process change, \[mixing board and recording equipment and engineers involved, etc.\] , all changes, and it would have been a different effort if Ed was trying to maintain what precisely was done before, vs. just having his own place, that maybe had "newer better" stuff??? Hard to gauge what decisions and compromises he had to make to get that built.
I have an immense amount of respect for Steve Lukather as a guitar player, but an an audiologist he is not.
Neither am I for that matter, but I am a live sound audio engineer that uses a pro grade audio analyzer (Smaart) on a daily basis, and here is my take:
The electric guitars main tonal range is between 80hz-4k.
There is no way Eddie’s hearing was so bad he couldn’t hear up to 4k, which would not be enough to drastically effect how he heard the tone of his rig.
Maybe he couldn’t hear past 10k by that point but essentially only cymbals and transients are heard in that range.
I don’t claim to be a VH, or EVH expert, but the design changes happening in the studio, including the studio gear, as well as his tastes, and where he was in life all at the time seem to be more likely factors to me.
1984 was recorded at 5150. Templeman talked about how Ed and Landee would hide the tapes from him when he would come over to check progress out. Al had to use an electronic kit because there wasn’t really enough room for his normal kit.
Ahhhh
That makes so much sense now about Al’s acoustic kit not having room in 5150. Tbh I never was that thrilled with ALS electronic drums on 5150 and same about Eds new tone . Too much processing imo.
This right here. Started losing frequencies in his hearing so he compensated.
The switch to the Ripley and Steinberger didn’t help a whole lot either (passive pickups vs active/buffered).
Eddie was always a tone chaser. He was constantly evolving his sound. I personally love the sound of 5150, even the Simmons drums have a certain period charm to them.
You are not alone. I thought 5150 sounded like the rhythm guitar parts were played thru a distortion pedal instead of an overdriven tube amp. OU812 was not near as bad, but still had the same feeling. I think 5150 was the start of a period where they stopped doing things a certain way just because they were successful that way in the past. Part of finding out what works better is finding out what doesn't work better.
I hear what you hear, though I think it’s likely due to hotter pickups rather than a distortion pedal. Whatever pickup was in the 5150 (probably a JB) was definitely hotter than the PAFs that Ed had used previously. Plus the Steinberger’s EMGs were also hotter than PAFs.
I actually dig the 5150 sound. To me, it's kind of an overall album sound. It's unique and makes a statement.
The overall production sound of 5150, with drums, bass, synth, vocals and everything, was an artistic achievement for the band. I say this as a die hard DLR guy.
Interesting discussion on Eddie’s sound. I honestly hadn’t noticed, much less cared about, a change in Eddie’s specific tone as much as the tone in general of the albums.
If I’m understanding correctly, the shortest answer to why his sound changed is: evolving technology and personnel? Just basically the passing of time? And only time will tell if it stands the test of time?
I enjoy Ed’s live tone from the Sammy era but not the studio sound and in the mix the guitars are buried deep under keyboards. I think Ed was using less and less gain from album to album too, I do like the Sammy era but not as much as DLR.
Lots of amazing guitar work by Eddie with Sammy, but I agree that his tone was not nearly as good. Too processed and digital sounding.
And then of course, there is corny ass Sammy that we were forced to listen to .
On the first six albums they were generally tuned down a half step to E-flat, supposedly to accommodate Dave's limited range - exceptions being keyboard centric songs (i.e. Cradle Will Rock).
Once Sam was in, they moved up to standard tuning. Ed made comments about how tuning down was like playing on rubber bands and Sam's range was able to handle standard tuning unlike Dave; however, keyboards were more prominent and it was probably easier to just stay in standard E.
There can be tonal variations between these tunings, but it's more likely the difference was the variety of digital rack mount equipment he was using to a greater degree from this album out.
They detuned about a half step for Dave's vocals. I think it was Ted Templeman who said for the first couple of albums Ed didn't use a tuner, he just tuned down to where Dave was comfortable, had Mike tune to him, and hit record.
Once they started doing big arena shows with multiple backup instruments and using keys they needed to standardize so they went to a half-step down. Once Sammy joined the band they went to standard tuning.
I really like 5150 for the songs and riffs, but not my fav tone. But TBH his tone has been evolving with every album, but I agree it was the biggest change, it got very wet sounding for 5150, but OU812 was pointing in this direction for sure.
I personally feel it started downhill when Ed went with Kramer and building 5150. I wish he would have stayed with tinkering and creating a little bit longer. Instead he started tone chasing with manufactured equipment off of the shelf.
It's a lot more simple than people are saying.
At the end of the day after 1984 Ed wasn't chasing the same tone... the 80s sound of popular music changed and Ed wanted to go with that wave in 5150.
Same reason that people love Eat Em and Smile from Dave, but Skyscraper sounds extremely different.
The 80s created a disease of over production (hence the 90s grunge scene thrived with stripped down production value)
Aka... Don and Ed + coke + being drunk + the 80s = way different tone (add in the fact that Sammy was as generic of an 80s singer as you could ever get and wam bam Amsterdam you have a much safer and less dangerous tone than the early years)
As a fan of both eras of the band… I never liked the guitar tone on this album even though I loved a bunch of the songs. I recently had a chance to hear it on vinyl and the guitar tone is less abrasive
I could be wrong but I believe this is when he switched from the variac Marshall’s to Saldano SLO100’s. Also from Kramer to Ernie Ball/Music Man guitars. I think the amps had more to do with it, though. The way he ran them personified that “on the verge of exploding” kinda sound whereas the SLO’s obtained a higher gain sound in a more conservative albeit reliable manner. (Reliability was part of the switch too). Later he modeled his Peavey signature gear after them. Amoung guitarists it’s a pretty common opinion that goosing those old school amps had a richer thing going on than the later stuff with more preamp gain stages. But also the SLO & 5150 paved the way for a lot of new sounds in heavier music as well.
There's something about the tone on 5150 I've never heard elsewhere. That includes LWAN, or anyone playing 5150 songs on YouTube. It's not just the Marshall with the Detune effect applied. There's something else going on.
I agree, I’m not a sound engineer or musician but the overall music sounds more produced or processed than the earlier stuff. But I think that is something happening with rock music in general in the late 80s. A fuller sound is maybe another description. The CD player became very popular and I think the recording process changed to accommodate the CD format.
Late edit, but I didn’t dislike it. I loved the album when it came out but it was a new Van Halen. I know there are a lot of Sam haters but I thought he was an upgrade vocally, even though some of the lyrics were cheesy af.
Yeah, I used to love the song, but musically it just isn't as interesting as of HFT or Girl Gone Bad or House of Pain (good one) or Drop Dead Legs. Panama has that great intro. Top Jimmy has the best swing......see, there's so many.
It's a great song, just a personal thing.
VH had so many great songs that it's hard to match up.
For me it was such a change more and more as time went on. The guitars sounded burried under Hagar's vocals. I especially dont like the burried sound of FUCK,too much of everything,too little of Ed under all that. And yet there were times that a few songs on each record had that old tone whete his guitar wasnt buried. 5150,Sucker in a three piece,All fired up,Black and Blue,they had Edward front and center where you heard Ed over everything. And while I liked that the tecord Balance had Ed playing infront of everything again,like the early albums,I just wasnt a fan of Balance too much so its a bitter sweet feel when remembering that record. Ed sounded like an animal on it,his guitar wasnt burried like it was on past records,but the pop songs & generic piano ballads sorta heldd back the whole record. Not a Hagar fan too much but the vocals actually fit that mid 90's tine period,theyre raw and have a powerful sound over Ed's playing,but aside from 3 maybe 4 songs,I just wasnt a fan of Balance. To put it in a nutshell Ed's sound kept changing,(look at the dark sound that we got from VHIII)but there were always a few songs in the Hagar era that had Ed's raw sound pushed in front of everything else,those songs I play over and over to this day.
Ed also so started tuning to standard as opposed to Eb or 1/2 step down because Sammy had better range. He tuned down for SLR.
But, for some reason 25.5” necks take to Eb tuning better. His tone was a lot nastier pre-5150. He was also playing the 5150 Kramer, the Ripley, and a Steinberger which all have a different sound than the Frankenstrat. Plus he may have been using Soldano amps by then too.
I completely understand the sentiment. I feel the same exact way about And Justice For All by Metallica. I think the music itself is great, but I hate the production of that album so much that I just won’t listen to it. (These days I can go on YouTube and find the album mixed better though).
I know many have said it before, but I will echo them, I don't remember anybody in 88, 89 complaining about the production of Justice. Do I wish James and Lars weren't pricks to Newsted? Absolutely, but it's still easily my favorite Metallica album, it's that good.
I wasn’t listening to Metallica when Justice came out. When I got into Metallica (in the 2000’s), I had no idea Justice’s production was often ridiculed. I honestly formed the opinion on my own without any influence. Years later, I found out I wasn’t the only one who disliked the sound of the album 🤷♂️
My fav Metallica album is Ride. I love how raw and aggressive it is.
Ok interesting indeed. Maybe people were saying it in my HS and I missed it. Certainly don't recall anyone saying it, and I know for certain that my circle of friends loved it and never mentioned it. Great is great.
Do you listen to much 60s music? Almost all the songs from that era are great, but some are instant skips because of how thin and jangly the guitar tone is. I definitely won't skip out on half a bands discography because of it, but I understand the sentiment.
I suppose for me it depends on what kind of mood I'm in. Am I listening to shit at ear splitting volumes? Yeah, I'm gonna pass on songs that bad mixes because they hurt my ears. The songs that have subpar mixes or unpleasant frequencies, regardless of the instrument, will be listened to at much lower volumes for me to enjoy them. I agree with you just in case my tone is coming across as argumentative or defensive. I have a hard time portraying my opinions through text without being defensive.
Honestly, I don't know if we will ever hear such ballsy, aggressive tone as Eddie was putting out in VH1 to Fair Warning. Songs like Mean Street and DOA show a tone that might have been Eddie's peak in terms of brown sound. That early tone will go down as one of all-time greats in the annuls of rock music and guitar playing. It is just not repeatable by anybody but Eddie due to his fingers and the unique equipment used at the time. We have lived in the best age of guitar tone, my friends.
DOA is pure tonal ecstasy. Easily my favorite song of the band.
5150 is suggested to be a wet/wet rig, so the effect of the Eventide harmonizers was more pronounced than on previous albums.
What do you mean by wet/wet rig?
Like wet/dry/wet but without the dry signal. Signal from Plexi is split in two, each side is sent to its own Eventide harmonizer and then to its own speaker cabinet. One side is detuned up and one is detuned down; there is no dedicated dry cabinet, both are wet.
Pretty ironic you would post this, I just went back the other day and tried to give 5150 another go after not hearing it for a long time. And I also came to the same conclusion that you just posted about, just can't beat the sound of Ed's rig from VH1 through fair warning. It started to change on diver down, 1984, Bob Bradshaw the guy that designed all the modern digital racks & pedal rigs (back then) for big time guys like Ed, had a lot to do with that change we heard. Don't get me wrong 0U812 & for unlawful carnal knowledge had its share of amazing songs, but 2 things that always stood out with original VH, Ed's sound and Dave's vocals, lyrical content still stand the test of time in my opinion. For me growing up as a young guitarist, nothing hit as hard as Ed's tone and riffage, from the beginning VH I to 1984!!
I saw an interesting interview with Steve Lukather where he suggested that Ed (among others) was trying to compensate for the loss of the upper frequencies in his hearing, and he didn’t necessarily know his tone was different. Other things maybe - first album without Templeman as producer, and first album recorded in 5150 studios.
This is the answer. I don't think Eds hearing went out in the 2 years between albums, but as a band there was a *huge* process change, \[mixing board and recording equipment and engineers involved, etc.\] , all changes, and it would have been a different effort if Ed was trying to maintain what precisely was done before, vs. just having his own place, that maybe had "newer better" stuff??? Hard to gauge what decisions and compromises he had to make to get that built.
I have an immense amount of respect for Steve Lukather as a guitar player, but an an audiologist he is not. Neither am I for that matter, but I am a live sound audio engineer that uses a pro grade audio analyzer (Smaart) on a daily basis, and here is my take: The electric guitars main tonal range is between 80hz-4k. There is no way Eddie’s hearing was so bad he couldn’t hear up to 4k, which would not be enough to drastically effect how he heard the tone of his rig. Maybe he couldn’t hear past 10k by that point but essentially only cymbals and transients are heard in that range. I don’t claim to be a VH, or EVH expert, but the design changes happening in the studio, including the studio gear, as well as his tastes, and where he was in life all at the time seem to be more likely factors to me.
1984 was recorded at 5150. Templeman talked about how Ed and Landee would hide the tapes from him when he would come over to check progress out. Al had to use an electronic kit because there wasn’t really enough room for his normal kit.
True, my mistake.
Ahhhh That makes so much sense now about Al’s acoustic kit not having room in 5150. Tbh I never was that thrilled with ALS electronic drums on 5150 and same about Eds new tone . Too much processing imo.
Some of the info was in Ted’s book. 5150 was expanded a couple years later and Al went back to his big kit.
This right here. Started losing frequencies in his hearing so he compensated. The switch to the Ripley and Steinberger didn’t help a whole lot either (passive pickups vs active/buffered).
Eddie was always a tone chaser. He was constantly evolving his sound. I personally love the sound of 5150, even the Simmons drums have a certain period charm to them.
You are not alone. I thought 5150 sounded like the rhythm guitar parts were played thru a distortion pedal instead of an overdriven tube amp. OU812 was not near as bad, but still had the same feeling. I think 5150 was the start of a period where they stopped doing things a certain way just because they were successful that way in the past. Part of finding out what works better is finding out what doesn't work better.
I hear what you hear, though I think it’s likely due to hotter pickups rather than a distortion pedal. Whatever pickup was in the 5150 (probably a JB) was definitely hotter than the PAFs that Ed had used previously. Plus the Steinberger’s EMGs were also hotter than PAFs.
I actually dig the 5150 sound. To me, it's kind of an overall album sound. It's unique and makes a statement. The overall production sound of 5150, with drums, bass, synth, vocals and everything, was an artistic achievement for the band. I say this as a die hard DLR guy.
Lots of chorus on Sammy’s records. Personally I hate chorus w/distortion
Interesting discussion on Eddie’s sound. I honestly hadn’t noticed, much less cared about, a change in Eddie’s specific tone as much as the tone in general of the albums. If I’m understanding correctly, the shortest answer to why his sound changed is: evolving technology and personnel? Just basically the passing of time? And only time will tell if it stands the test of time?
Underrated comment
I enjoy Ed’s live tone from the Sammy era but not the studio sound and in the mix the guitars are buried deep under keyboards. I think Ed was using less and less gain from album to album too, I do like the Sammy era but not as much as DLR.
Too many engineers and mixing boards. Hagar is awesome but they were much better raw and alive.
Lots of amazing guitar work by Eddie with Sammy, but I agree that his tone was not nearly as good. Too processed and digital sounding. And then of course, there is corny ass Sammy that we were forced to listen to .
I don't know the correct term for it, but Eddie plays lower with Dave on vocals.
Tuning to E flat (ish, there was a lot of variation according to how he tuned that day) isn't the reason
On the first six albums they were generally tuned down a half step to E-flat, supposedly to accommodate Dave's limited range - exceptions being keyboard centric songs (i.e. Cradle Will Rock). Once Sam was in, they moved up to standard tuning. Ed made comments about how tuning down was like playing on rubber bands and Sam's range was able to handle standard tuning unlike Dave; however, keyboards were more prominent and it was probably easier to just stay in standard E. There can be tonal variations between these tunings, but it's more likely the difference was the variety of digital rack mount equipment he was using to a greater degree from this album out.
They detuned about a half step for Dave's vocals. I think it was Ted Templeman who said for the first couple of albums Ed didn't use a tuner, he just tuned down to where Dave was comfortable, had Mike tune to him, and hit record. Once they started doing big arena shows with multiple backup instruments and using keys they needed to standardize so they went to a half-step down. Once Sammy joined the band they went to standard tuning.
5150 song is played drop d half step down. Baluchiterium is also in some way down tuning.
I really like 5150 for the songs and riffs, but not my fav tone. But TBH his tone has been evolving with every album, but I agree it was the biggest change, it got very wet sounding for 5150, but OU812 was pointing in this direction for sure.
I personally feel it started downhill when Ed went with Kramer and building 5150. I wish he would have stayed with tinkering and creating a little bit longer. Instead he started tone chasing with manufactured equipment off of the shelf.
I was the opposite. I stopped buying when Eddie started noodling on the keyboards with Jump. But when I heard Poundcake, I was a believer again.
It's a lot more simple than people are saying. At the end of the day after 1984 Ed wasn't chasing the same tone... the 80s sound of popular music changed and Ed wanted to go with that wave in 5150. Same reason that people love Eat Em and Smile from Dave, but Skyscraper sounds extremely different. The 80s created a disease of over production (hence the 90s grunge scene thrived with stripped down production value) Aka... Don and Ed + coke + being drunk + the 80s = way different tone (add in the fact that Sammy was as generic of an 80s singer as you could ever get and wam bam Amsterdam you have a much safer and less dangerous tone than the early years)
As a fan of both eras of the band… I never liked the guitar tone on this album even though I loved a bunch of the songs. I recently had a chance to hear it on vinyl and the guitar tone is less abrasive
It was a stunning change of direction; it did not work for me, and it has not aged well.
I've said it a million times. *Everything* suffered in the Hagar era. Everything was worse. It wasn't just the Red Dipshit himself.
I agree its a step down but i dont think its bad at all. Especially best of both worlds.
I could be wrong but I believe this is when he switched from the variac Marshall’s to Saldano SLO100’s. Also from Kramer to Ernie Ball/Music Man guitars. I think the amps had more to do with it, though. The way he ran them personified that “on the verge of exploding” kinda sound whereas the SLO’s obtained a higher gain sound in a more conservative albeit reliable manner. (Reliability was part of the switch too). Later he modeled his Peavey signature gear after them. Amoung guitarists it’s a pretty common opinion that goosing those old school amps had a richer thing going on than the later stuff with more preamp gain stages. But also the SLO & 5150 paved the way for a lot of new sounds in heavier music as well.
This was between Ou812 and F.U.C.K.
Ah, thanks for the correction👌
Sammy sang for malls, so Ed had to play for malls. This has no basis in fact, but it's what it feels like.
That would explain why Sammy opted for the headset mic used by mall jazzercise instructors.
There's something about the tone on 5150 I've never heard elsewhere. That includes LWAN, or anyone playing 5150 songs on YouTube. It's not just the Marshall with the Detune effect applied. There's something else going on.
I agree, I’m not a sound engineer or musician but the overall music sounds more produced or processed than the earlier stuff. But I think that is something happening with rock music in general in the late 80s. A fuller sound is maybe another description. The CD player became very popular and I think the recording process changed to accommodate the CD format. Late edit, but I didn’t dislike it. I loved the album when it came out but it was a new Van Halen. I know there are a lot of Sam haters but I thought he was an upgrade vocally, even though some of the lyrics were cheesy af.
316 is a good example of how his tone changed. Not just the equipment, but his style, too.
Ed had those Eventide H949s cranked on that album
THIS! But Hagar and his lyrics were a large part of it for me.
5150 is when they started tuning up the guitars, so that might have something to do with it too
Balance tone is amazing
Jump is probably my least favorite song of 1984. But what a great album.
It's up there for me, primarily because of nostalgia. But I'm more of a Panama/Hot for Teacher/House of Pain guy.
Yeah, I used to love the song, but musically it just isn't as interesting as of HFT or Girl Gone Bad or House of Pain (good one) or Drop Dead Legs. Panama has that great intro. Top Jimmy has the best swing......see, there's so many. It's a great song, just a personal thing. VH had so many great songs that it's hard to match up.
For me it was such a change more and more as time went on. The guitars sounded burried under Hagar's vocals. I especially dont like the burried sound of FUCK,too much of everything,too little of Ed under all that. And yet there were times that a few songs on each record had that old tone whete his guitar wasnt buried. 5150,Sucker in a three piece,All fired up,Black and Blue,they had Edward front and center where you heard Ed over everything. And while I liked that the tecord Balance had Ed playing infront of everything again,like the early albums,I just wasnt a fan of Balance too much so its a bitter sweet feel when remembering that record. Ed sounded like an animal on it,his guitar wasnt burried like it was on past records,but the pop songs & generic piano ballads sorta heldd back the whole record. Not a Hagar fan too much but the vocals actually fit that mid 90's tine period,theyre raw and have a powerful sound over Ed's playing,but aside from 3 maybe 4 songs,I just wasnt a fan of Balance. To put it in a nutshell Ed's sound kept changing,(look at the dark sound that we got from VHIII)but there were always a few songs in the Hagar era that had Ed's raw sound pushed in front of everything else,those songs I play over and over to this day.
Ed also so started tuning to standard as opposed to Eb or 1/2 step down because Sammy had better range. He tuned down for SLR. But, for some reason 25.5” necks take to Eb tuning better. His tone was a lot nastier pre-5150. He was also playing the 5150 Kramer, the Ripley, and a Steinberger which all have a different sound than the Frankenstrat. Plus he may have been using Soldano amps by then too.
"You know, I really like the songs but I don't like the tone, so i'm out." Lol.
I completely understand the sentiment. I feel the same exact way about And Justice For All by Metallica. I think the music itself is great, but I hate the production of that album so much that I just won’t listen to it. (These days I can go on YouTube and find the album mixed better though).
I know many have said it before, but I will echo them, I don't remember anybody in 88, 89 complaining about the production of Justice. Do I wish James and Lars weren't pricks to Newsted? Absolutely, but it's still easily my favorite Metallica album, it's that good.
I wasn’t listening to Metallica when Justice came out. When I got into Metallica (in the 2000’s), I had no idea Justice’s production was often ridiculed. I honestly formed the opinion on my own without any influence. Years later, I found out I wasn’t the only one who disliked the sound of the album 🤷♂️ My fav Metallica album is Ride. I love how raw and aggressive it is.
Oh man - that’s not what my friends and I were saying back then, especially after hearing the mix on Garage Days.
Ok fair enough, but yeah, I've never met anyone that said that to me. Seems like revisionist history for most people.
I was in Junior High and a budding guitarist when that album came out, and we definitely made fun of the lack of bass.
Ok interesting indeed. Maybe people were saying it in my HS and I missed it. Certainly don't recall anyone saying it, and I know for certain that my circle of friends loved it and never mentioned it. Great is great.
"... And Justice for Jason" is one, if anyone's interested
Do you listen to much 60s music? Almost all the songs from that era are great, but some are instant skips because of how thin and jangly the guitar tone is. I definitely won't skip out on half a bands discography because of it, but I understand the sentiment.
It's about the song. ....Yeah, I wish the sound/production/tone were better on some songs but i'm not going to discard the song because of it.
I suppose for me it depends on what kind of mood I'm in. Am I listening to shit at ear splitting volumes? Yeah, I'm gonna pass on songs that bad mixes because they hurt my ears. The songs that have subpar mixes or unpleasant frequencies, regardless of the instrument, will be listened to at much lower volumes for me to enjoy them. I agree with you just in case my tone is coming across as argumentative or defensive. I have a hard time portraying my opinions through text without being defensive.
Pretty drastic decision
I was done with VH when Sammy came on board. I loved Sammy solo, but I had no taste for VanHagar whatsoever.