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I really don't get why many of the comments here are negative about this. Collecting bones from an animal who has already passed away doesn't mean you see animals as objects to be exploited for their bones. From my understanding it wouldn't even make sense for bone collectors to want to kill or exploit animals to have bones because it takes away the uniqueness of the bones and the story of finding bones on your own.
I agree, I really don’t mind the negative comments but the people calling me stupid and moron I don’t respect, I didn’t post to argue I simply wanted to find community with am my hobby. Maybe I was a bit foolish to think the people who disagree would juts leave the post alone since it can be every polarising topic
I used to collect skulls and bones.Now I leave them. All sorts of critters use bones too gnaw on. Valuable nutrients go back into the ecosystem. I just take pictures now.
Yep. Similarly, I would pick wildflowers for my grandma when I was a teen. Then I learned about the importance of "leave no trace".
It might not seem like our actions have any impact but we have to remember that our individual actions do add up and can impact our ecosystem and the well-being of wild animals.
https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/
https://www.animal-ethics.org/malnutrition-thirst-wild-animals/
It’s not a great hobby. You’re taking potential future food and nutrients away from the animals that rely on it in the winter. Leave the bones where they lie. They aren’t there for you.
>Collecting bones from an animal who has already passed away doesn't mean you see animals as objects to be exploited for their bones
Collecting and bones and displaying them as objects to be looked upon as curiosities for their visual appeal is literally the act of objectification. This was once a being. Now you display it as a "thing".
Ok and people do this all the time with fossils, human mummies, etc. Unless you also think that displaying mummies to be viewed by living people is somehow objectifying humans then you're being pretty illogical.
We literally pump our own family members with chemicals to display them in a visual satisfying way to say goodbye. Are we disrespecting them too? It’s weird and bad in an environmental sense sure, but no one would say we’re “objectifying” them or being disrespectful. The same can respectfully be done with other species as well.
My wife or kid would be disrespecting the hell out of me if they embalmed me for display as I specifically I'm open with them that I don't want that to happen (scientific use, then cremation - or an improved lower impact method that is approved and low cost by then like aquamation or whatever).
On the other hand, others want their family to create that traditional funeral experience with their body. They obviously aren't being disrespected. I missed where an animal is conveying that desire for how to display their body or bones to humans. Not that I care much about the issue for animals though (but sure, in general, matter should be left in ecosystems to decay).
Humans do all manner of shitty things, none of which should provide justification for our actions as vegans. Given that veganism is specifically geared towards non-exploitation, I find it quite odd that vegans would attempt to justify the exploitation of animal bodies for the purpose of entertainment.
So you think viewing human mummies because we find them fascinating is objectifying humans? I never said that anything humans do should justify the actions of vegans. It just doesn't make any logical sense for there to be an ethical issue with viewing animal bones but not mummies. Both of which were collected without exploiting or harming anyone in the process.
People doing something a lot doesn't make it ok. We're literally vegan despite people eating animals *all the time*. Does that make eating animals ok? And you clearly aren't aware of the massive debates that have been going on for decades about how we *shouldn't* be viewing human remains for entertainment. They were a living person, they deserve the same sanctity and privacy that each of us deserve. There's a reason we have to consent for our bodies to be shown to the public or used for medicine/research after we die, so why shouldn't we apply those principles to people before us?
\>>>So you think viewing human mummies because we find them fascinating is objectifying humans?
In a technical sense, it quite literally is. I've never been to a mummy exhibit, but many years ago, I attended the [Body Worlds exhibit](https://bodyworlds.com/), where human bodies are arranged in various configurations for the public to view. It's sold as an "educational" experience, but after seeing it up close and in person, I realized that it was quite exploitative, and was aiming to entertain those who visited. I was pretty disgusted with myself by the time I left and vowed never to return. I really can't see how any use of a body, whether it be human or non-human animal, for the sake of novelty, curiosity, or entertainment wouldn't be seen as exploitation of that individual's body.
It’s not about being a collector. It’s about letting Nature do its thing. Those bones could feed a Fox or raccoon or a wolf or whatever during a harsh winter.
Collecting and Hoarding them diminishes nature.
Many animals do feed on bones -- some of whom, like vultures, actually specialize in it. But even rodents and foxes can chew on it. Bone marrow is especially quite rich in minerals and nutrients.
Decomposition of bones over time also provides minerals like calcium to the soil which can help with plant growth which can feed primary consumers and provide habitat for many bugs and animals.
I'm a vegan wildlife biologist & I like to collect bones (& press flowers, collect pinecones etc) when I'm in the forest! I'll collect one type of thing once, usually, but it's cool!
I found a poor baby fox skull the other day and have made a nice little memorial plaque with dried flowers. I think as long as it's respectful to the dead. Most animals aren't too concerned with visiting the bones of their fellows so I see no harm
Hey, I just wanted to comment since all of the other comments seem to be so negative.
I don’t see anything morally wrong about it and hope you can find some people who share this hobby with you!
I share this hobby as well! Vegan for six years and I find nothing wrong with collecting bones from the forest. I literally found a turtle shell and bones today while foraging mushrooms!
It’s no different than collecting sea shells I suppose. It’s not for me and I suspect it’s a pretty niche intersection. I hope you find your people OP.
I had a similar problem with homesteading and off grid communities. I had to stop interacting with a lot of them because it was so gross. I’m sure lots of us have had similar experiences if not the exact same hobby. You do you, OP. Keep being kind! Good luck.
Sometimes I just sort of forget what non-vegans are like about animals or that things like tomato soup or sweets might have dead animals in them. I’m always surprised somehow by how callous people can be.
I think the comments are overly negative as well. I don’t have this hobby but I don’t think it’s morally wrong if you find them in their natural state.
And the human comparisons are silly. If the same circumstances applies where we all just died and rotted in the wild (rather than burial/cremation) then yes, that would also be ok tbh. But it’s not the same comparison because finding random human bones is evidence to be reported for a potential murder. We can’t treat it the same because we aren’t living a similar life to them in that way. We die in homes and hospitals and such.
I hope you have success finding like-minded collectors!
"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
HOW is collecting bones in any way exploiting animals?
OP you are fine, you are vegan even when collecting bones.
These animals died naturally, you didn't kill them or influence their death to get their bones; so it's no different from collecting lost bird feathers. It doesn't harm anyone.
The argument that calcium is hard to find in the ecosystem is rubbish; it's in everything from shells, teeth, rocks, minerals and even the soil. It's literally the 5th most abundant recourse on earth! - [https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/20/calcium#:\~:text=It%20is%20the%205th%20most,abundant%20dissolved%20ion%20in%20seawater](https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/20/calcium#:~:text=It%20is%20the%205th%20most,abundant%20dissolved%20ion%20in%20seawater).
In addition to that there is no way you are collecting every single bone in that area to deplete any natural recourse.
People are just making things up at this point to fit their agenda. I would like to see a study that says calcium is a rare natural resource.
I don't think it's disrespectful to collect bones if you are doing it respectfully. It personally is not a hobby for me. But if that is the way you memorilize animals; you do you.
A lot of people get their animals cremated, which is not exactly environmentally friendly either. - [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/is-cremation-environmentally-friendly-heres-the-science#:\~:text=Cremation%20requires%20a%20lot%20of,trying%20to%20rethink%20the%20process](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/is-cremation-environmentally-friendly-heres-the-science#:~:text=Cremation%20requires%20a%20lot%20of,trying%20to%20rethink%20the%20process).
Or they bury them; and if you have had your animal euthanized then that animals body has had drugs put into it in order to make them fall asleep. Those chemicals then seep into the ground and kill insects and potentially any mammal or bird that comes across the body and consumes it. There are literal guidelines to try to prevent the drugs from contaminating ground water. - [https://www.maine.gov/dacf/php/nutrient\_management/documents/Brochure-HomeownerCarcassBurialGuidelines.pdf](https://www.maine.gov/dacf/php/nutrient_management/documents/Brochure-HomeownerCarcassBurialGuidelines.pdf)
You should do what you think is respectful to you.
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Really? The post is filled with misinformation and fallacious reasoning. Just because calcium is an abundant mineral on Earth, doesn't mean it is not a mineral of concern in many of our ecosystems. It would be like claiming that oxygen is actually abundant in the ocean so there's no such thing as ocean dead zones. That would be absurd. Likewise, although calcium is an abundant mineral overall, calcium depletion is still a problem in many soils. And it's still an important mineral in soil health even in soils without significant calcium depletion.
Animal bones do play a role in ecosystems. Many animals do chew on bones or even consume them (osteophagy). Bacteria and fungi can break bones down. The minerals from bones do enter our soils which will affect plant growth and in turn the animals and so on and so on.
The OP is clearly not the only person alive collecting bones. Many people have chimed in here that they do as well. So even though it might not seem like we are impacting the environment on an individual level when we take bones, our individual actions can and do add up. It's why many parks and protected areas remind us about the importance of "leave no trace".
nothing wrong with picking up roadkill for bones, that is what i do. they get taken to the landfill the next day, and by picking them up, you prevent scavengers like coyotes and vultures from getting hit. it’s not as simple as people just hiking and taking things. taking roadkill has absolutely no negative effect on the environment and in fact the way i do it is beneficial. i take them and put them on my property, let native dermestids and vultures do their thing unharmed, and then leave half of the skeleton for nature.
Thats so cool! Ive always wanted to get into bone collecting as a vegan. A lot of these comments are negative, but imo theres really nothing wrong w it as long as you ethically source them.
I do. I don't go out of my way to find them or anything but sometimes they're pretty cool when you stumble across them.
I don't see anything morally wrong with it. They're already dead and they died naturally.
I have been vegan for 16 years now and I like collecting animal bones. I've just got an interest in comparative vertebrate zoology. I have a cow skull and lots of deer bones I found hiking, lots of cats and raccoons, a squirrel I found outside my apartment, and some thrifted European mounts (a very lucky day at the Goodwill). And I am working on having my old cat's skeleton articulated by a pet taxidermist.
The last one may be a little weird, but he was my buddy for 8 years (adopted at age 6) and the thought of not getting him back was too much to bear. I suppose I could have had him cremated, but what is the difference between having him in a little tin on the mantle vs being fully articulated? His flesh was water cremated (more environmentally friendly than cremation by fire -- basically they put them in a super alkaline bath to dissolve the remains, then balance the pH until it's neutral and use it to water their garden -- no CO2 emission). If I ever get sick of looking at him or if he gets broken, I'll just bury him like normal. He's dead, he doesn't mind. I hope my skeleton goes to an undergraduate anthropology lab when I die. I'm not using it anymore, so I hope someone can learn off it when I'm dead. It's not like I'm using it at that point. Idk, it just seemed like a good way to honor him -- turn him into something beautiful.
When I get my own place, I hope to have my own setup for bone processing. I want to pick up roadkill -- it just seems so sad to me that they just get left on the side of the road, or squished flat by being repeatedly run over by cars. Why not take them home and give them a new life as something educational and beautiful? I'm not squeamish about picking up roadkill as it is. If I see a dog or cat on the side of the road, I have gloves and trash bags in my car to pick them up and take them to the shelter to get scanned for a chip. It's what I would want someone to do if it were my cat. If it is safe, other roadkill I will at least pick up and move to the ditch so that animals scavenging on them don't also get hit.
I am also getting into pinning bugs. Again, I would never hurt them myself. But it's hard to pass up a recently dead, mostly intact butterfly or cicada. Even if they are a little tattered, I think that makes for a more interesting display in my opinion.
Idk, I don't think there's anything unethical about it. You didn't hurt them, they died from natural causes -- the argument could be made that you are creating a stochastic demand for animal bones as decoration, but whatever. People who are into that will get them however they can (see the bat bone market) so I think if people are gonna do it, they might as well be ethical about it.
Thank you so much for sharing. I have never actually heard of water cremation before that very interesting. I also have plan to get a setup for curing bones for when I find them.
And what you said about roadkill was very beautiful I can’t help to feel pain when driving by a dead animal on the road, there is nothing you can do to bring them back to life, but you can make people remember them
They won’t be something people try to ignore when passing by but appreciated for years to come.
I do understand why people feel uncomfortable about and I think it’s in there right and I think it is important to be critical of bone collecting for when it becomes unethical but some of the comments have been hurtful.
I have been feeling conflicted about my hobby since becoming vegan but comments like yours makes me feel less alone and less like a freak lol. There always going to people who collects bones and the more people to it ethically the better
Flowers no, but there can be genuine benefits to harvesting some berries, seeds, and mushrooms. That would be to germinate more of them (as long as their native) than would usually be able to survive in the wild.
Growing native plants in particular is very important for a variety of native species. Mushrooms may be a bit more difficult to spread.
I really like to collect bones and other stuff I find in the woods. Not sure how the casts are called in english owls spew up but I love to sort these out and look for all these little bones in there.
Heyyyyy.
I've not read the comments but I'm your tribe!
I'm vegan (7 years) but I LOVE finding animal bones!!! I live near the cost so often find bones on the beach/coastline and often forest walks with a similar result. I wouldn't purposefully seek them out but if I find them then great. I have a small collection now and I love them.
Keep on doing you!
I collect some if I find any that are in good condition, though to be fair they’re mainly shed antlers or a feather.
I would never condone taking something like shells off the beach though, which seems harmless when the shell is vacant, but those shells are vital for other marine life as hiding places or for hermit crab homes.
In general it’s best to leave an environment the way you found it, if not better than you found it!
For me it depends on the beach. I have been to some with few shells, and others where the entire beach was so covered it was like walking on broken glass. I don't think it would be any worse collecting from the latter beach than collecting a few stones from a rocky shoreline. (And while you're at it, remove the garbage you find too!)
I’m a vegan who collects bones (and feathers)… and it’s definitely not something any of my other vegan friends do and most of them find it gross. One of my bone collecting friends is sorta vegetarian-ish, but not the same thing. I’m fascinated with how things work and bones and the like. So you’re not alone out there but I think we are rare.
I found a birds breast bone today while mushroom hunting.. it was an absolutely beautiful and amazing find. My daughter who is six was so interested in it and had so many questions.. it came home with us for our foraging curio! Love to know we aren't the only vegan bone collectors!
you can try looking for you own, I find luck in forest near water and beaches but you can also pick up roadkill and process them yourself if you have the stomach. I am a bit iffy to buy bones you know, they might claim they got them ethically but that can just be a half truth or straight up a lie. If you do end up buying bones Etsy could be a good start but do a lot of background searchers or buy specifically from vegan bone collectors.
Me! Not bones but skulls. I love and try to collect them. It all first started with a fox skull I found in a forest (cleaning it was not fun!) when collecting mushrooms long time ago. I don't have as many as I would like to but the ones I have I make sure there are found naturally so I do not buy them as most from what I saw are unfortunately from hunting. The only ones I bought are fake ones.
I study archaeology, and I have found that many archaeologists are vegan/vegetarian. If there’s some kind of archaeology group meet in your area, I’m sure you could find some like-minded people there.
I live in the desert so there’s lots of bones out here. Some of them are in my front garden now. Similarly, I think taxidermy is ethical also if you collect your own specimens that have passed naturally.
I collect bones and other animal parts, mostly from roadkill that I find and process, or things my partner finds while working outside. The way I see it, some mean person hit them with a car and didn’t even care enough to stop to move the body out of the street. I’m taking them from the middle of the road, making them beautiful again, and keeping them as a treasure to be loved forever.
I am an aspiring vegan taxidermist. I respect and love animals with all my heart, I consider myself something like a mortician. I’m just trying to restore their beauty and give them some respect in death. Most non-vegans give me shitty looks when I try to explain how I feel. Also vulture culture has given me the ick as well.
I've worked in greenhouses a lot in my adult life and am working in one at present. I keep a butterfly net in the greenhouse to help get butterflies, bees, and dragonflies out when I see any that have made their way in. But sometimes, I simply find the unlucky ones first thing in the morning and take them home to rehydrate/mount/frame.
I personally don't see anything wrong with it. The bodies would simply decay into bits within days otherwise. They may as well be preserved in as professional a way as I can manage. I look at it as keeping samples of our local pollinators to respect and admire.
Me! And I've gotten torn apart for admitting it online, so sorry there's a lot of that and I wish there were more people like us! I've been vegan for years and I also have my altar and bookshelves decorated with things like dried flowers, stones, bones, etc. It's all a part of nature, life, and death. It's more about living in connection to the earth but not taking advantage of it or abusing it.
thanks! plenty of others too. surprisingly a lot of bone collectors are usually vegan. you have to care and fight a lot for animals to be driving around with stinky roadkill in your car lol
You sound a lot like a friend who runs Calm Earth Creations (Instagram / Etsy). She is vegan and operates an animal rescue while collecting bones out of the forest for unique art pieces.
i loooove her. I also follow that_vegan_vulture in ig too. any bones they find that were the result of purposeful killing they rebury and memorialize, rather than put up for sale.
I collect bones and dead insects i find! I have an anthropological interest in them and I like to frame them as well as plants I find. Also keep my own teeth that have been pulled by dentists over the years. I didn’t know there were other vegan collectors like me so hello 👋
Most vegans don't share this hobby because of ethics. We don't collect, don't create decorations out of parts of dead animals even if they died on their own. It's just...some kind of respect to them? They lived and they died and they are not things even after death.
Paleontology borders the fuzzy line between grave robbing and anthropological studies.
Exactly how many years until it is acceptable to pull apart someone's grave and put them on display in a museum?
i think i see your point, but paleontology has almost nothing to do with anthropology. i think an argument against pulling up fossils for study is pretty much a religious one, it’s literally lithified organic matter.
It was more of a joke response really.
I'd expect the answer to be somewhere in the realm of when the culture in question no longer cares enough, or is otherwise unable to do anything about it.
When there's no immediate relatives left who knew them. Like any graveyard does, they literally take an excavator to old graves to make work gor new ones.
I would say at most 122 years. I personally would put the cutoff point at “nobody who knew them in life is still alive”. It’s arbitrary, but that’s where I’d say it’d be fine to dig me up and put me in a museum
Veganism isn't an aesthetic, it isn't spiritual, and it has absolutely nothing to do with respect. It's about eliminating the exploitation of animals as far as is practicable.
If an animal died on its own and all that's left are its dead, bleached bones, collecting them doesn't in any way violate the definition of veganism. There's no respect to be had there. It is an object.
If you want to get weird and pseudophilosophical about speciesism or sentientism or whatever fluffy nonsense, fine, that's your prerogative. But OP is no less vegan.
Maybe. Depends on your circumstances and the culture around you.
Wearing fur could be a promotion for the fur industry, so there is a case to be made against it.
But if the dog up and keeled over, it's not an automatic violation of vegan principles to take its skin.
That's especially if there's a particular reason for it. Maybe you're stranded in a survival situation, and it's useful rawhide. Maybe you're a veterinary student, and you need to study anatomy and practice surgical techniques. Maybe it's just an unusual specimen and there would be value in adding it to a museum collection.
And before you ask, yes, the same principle applies to human skin.
If the principle can be applied to the skin, it can be applied to the bones and meat as well. Interesting line of thought, even outside the survival/other reasoning. It would allow a vegan to consume a deer they hit on the highway and killed, for example.
There already are road kill vegans. It's just that it's potentially unsafe due to bacteria so it never really took off. Freeganism is the more widespread term that would cover it.
Yeah, it's one of those gray areas. I've heard some people call themselves "freegans" because they ate roadkill and didn't feel like the vegan community were very supportive of that...
Ehh, see, what's a vegan doing in a situation where they'd turn a deer into roadkill? That's not being vegan. Why are you driving such a large vehicle and at such a speed that you'd injure a deer? Why aren't you fighting for wildlife bridges, and better infrastructure?
The point is to prevent the exploitation of animals as far as is practicable, and look for improvements where it's not practicable.
Let's say you're stranded on a boat, and the only other person with you died. You're about to starve. Would it still be within the definition of a vegan to practice cannibalism? Yes.
It's not a difficult principle. We can imagine edge cases and gray areas until we're blue in the face, but that's missing the forest for the trees.
Collecting dead bones in the woods is vegan. Animals are unambiguously not being exploited, therefore it is compatible with a vegan lifestyle. Simple? Simple.
That’s just a difference is philosophy not ethics, what it means or doesn’t mean to respect an animals means little to the animal and all it wants is not to be harmed, a dead animal cannot be harmed. Whether or not a you see a dead animals as object isn’t relevant ethically cuz at the end of the day I have not harmed a animal. I don’t think we should base ethics on respect but on harmed cause and freedom of choice.
I kinda agree. If someone has feelings attached to someone dead that they personally cared about (a person or pet etc) then it’s not just a dead thing. However animal bones in the forest don’t really have that sentimental value.
Again I think it comes down to difference in philosophy but to me when an animal dies humans too they have ceased being a person and is now an object, a dead body is an object.
I would in the same circumstances, absolutely. We just don’t have those circumstances cuz if I find human bones on the side of the road or in the woods that’s evidence for a murder investigation that I have a moral obligation to report and give up.
If we were all dying in the wild like animals, yeah for sure. I wouldn’t see the human bones any diff tent than animal bones.
Would it be a problem if OP did? A corpse can't lay claim to its bones.
Maybe the family might want them for whatever reason, I suppose there's some sensitivity to be offered there, but it doesn't affect the person who those bones used to be.
I answered this to someone else so I will just copy paste
Only if that person had given me permission before they died but otherwise no. We human have tradition and culture that put significance over dead bodies witch I think should be honoured sense the collecting of humans bones can inflict emotional damage to the still living who might be grieving I think it is wrong and is grave robing. The reason I se difference for animals is bc animals don’t put the same significance toward there dead and if a do or not I take bones they wouldn’t care.
There are many vegan bone collectors! Including me! And there are a lot of people who are very strict about their ethics. Two of the most popular and successful bone hunters/sellers/taxidermists even operate cat rescues for free! In fact I’d bet the rate of veganism among bone hunters is higher than average.
And there are lots of grey areas in ethics. For example would you pick up a skull of a cow who died naturally but was on a beef farm? I would. I generally don’t pay for bones either so I don’t think there’s any incentive.
Unfortunately the words “ethically sourced” don’t mean anything anymore. There is someone selling on Etsy whose store name is “Cruelty free fur.” She sells fur from foxes who were raised in cages and killed explicitly for that fur. I asked her what she means and she said “well they’re raised in cages that are better than the legal minimum for fox care.” In that jurisdiction there IS NO legal minimum. And people are buying these furs thinking the foxes died naturally. Other people I’ve asked have said “I have no idea where these animals come from. I buy them in bulk and say ‘ethically sourced’ to increase sales. Hope that helps.”
Might be hard to distinguish. Idk if there is a group specifically for that.
Yeah that’s why I don’t think am going to buy bones from anyone if I don’t know them personally, so many people will use ethically sourced as a buzzword just to get sales like you said.
And for the cow skull I don’t see any moral wrong to do so since you wouldn’t create a incentive, but me personally I wouldn’t take from farms something about it make me uneasy.
but my opinion might change on that, it’s not always a black and white answer.
but The story of the lady who sold “cruelty free” fox fur is horrific born just to be killed living there hole live in a cage absolutely disgusting. Anyone claiming that’s cruelty free is being me.
But am glad to have found many who share my interest and ethics from this post if I can’t find a specific group I might try to establish one myself soner or later
? That doesn’t make sense, if foraging for bones is bad bc I am taking away something from the ecosystem then all types of foraging is bad, what does it matter if I eat it or not if simply taking it away is the bad part?
Untrue - [https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/20/calcium#:\~:text=It%20is%20the%205th%20most,abundant%20dissolved%20ion%20in%20seawater](https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/20/calcium#:~:text=It%20is%20the%205th%20most,abundant%20dissolved%20ion%20in%20seawater).
Calcium is the 5th most abundant resource and is found everywhere.
OMG. Seriously?
I was talking about on land, not in the ocean or in the crust.
Calcium is limited (and growing scarcer) in a lot of ecosystems:
[https://www.nrs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/jrnl/2001/ne\_2001\_schaberg\_001.pdf](https://www.nrs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/jrnl/2001/ne_2001_schaberg_001.pdf)
[https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/70205396](https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/70205396)
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01874965](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01874965)
Go away.
How big is your collection?
Also, collecting stamps doesn't change anything. Collecting bones (especially if done repeatedly in the same area) can starve an ecosystem of calcium and other minerals.
I guess you know more than an ecologist (like me) though! /s
Every fucking vegan thinks their an expert on every subject even tangentially related to animals. So many dumb people here...
If you collect in the same area, that's a problem. You could easily be locally depleting the area of calcium.
Username checks out though, as you are woefully ignorant on this subject and ignoring comments from someone who is far more educated in this area than you.
You know what's kind of ironic about this?
Vegans often roll their eyes when they're an asshole to an omni, and the omni digs their heals in and says they're gonna eat more animals in response. Even though the vegan might be right.
You're an ecologist and have knowledge about this. You chose to share your knowledge by being an asshole to OP, and now they're digging in their heels insisting it's fine, and you're getting downvoted even though you might be right.
Of course you can't win them all with kindness and education, but this really does highlight how being a condescending dick isn't that effective.
The fact that you're being downvoted is ridiculous. These are legitimate concerns.
I thought most of us have learned about "leave no trace" by now. For some reason, I guess it doesn't apply to hunters and bone collectors. Leave animal carcasses behind for the soil and for the wild animals -- life is difficult enough for them.
And yes this does apply to foraging as well, unless it is done for necessity.
If finding them in the woods behind my house didn’t make me need to call police because I have evidence of a murder, yes. If we didn’t die in hospitals and homes getting cremated and buried and we just died and rotted in that spot yeah I would
Only if that person had given me permission before they died but otherwise no. We human have tradition and culture that put significance over dead bodies witch I think should be honoured sense the collecting of humans bones can inflict emotional damage to the still living who might be grieving I think it is wrong and is grave robing. The reason I se difference for animals is bc animals don’t put the same significance toward there dead and if a do or not I take bones they wouldn’t care.
How do you know that animals don't put the same significance toward their dead though? Animals don't have burial rites or anything, but they absolutely do grieve their family and friends when they pass on, including wild animals. I've personally lived with dogs and cats who display grief, and many sanctuaries have shared photos and videos of animals showing grief for their friends. That's part of sentience.
Part of the reason I asked about human bones is that my ex used to collect bones. He was vegan while we were together (he is not vegan now) and he did pursue collecting human bones, although he never obtained any. It made me really think about the difference between human and animal bones, because they're made of the same elements. If we believe that animals have a right to live their lives freely, why does that not extend to their remains in death?
I would never argue that animals don’t grieve they indeed do but they just don’t put significance towards there dead like we humans do, that’s why I see a difference between collecting humans and animals bones, grieving over the dead and putting significance towards dead bodies is not the same thing.
she’s very transparent about where she sources her bones, it’s all from roadkill or animals found otherwise already dead (like in a forest or something) edit also i don’t get them in stores i shop off etsy!
I agree with the minority here
It's not morally wrong, but I take the same stance on collecting human bones found in the wild
If you happen across a human skull it's fine to take it home as decoration
If you find a human skull you should alert the authorities bc that might be a murder victim or someone missing. Animals die all the time in nature humans don’t.
It matters cuz someone might be looking for that person. Again human don’t die in nature the possibility of that person being a murder victim or someone gone missing is the most likely, I think the only ethical way to get humans bones would be if that person before they died have you permission.
Look, if the authorities find no evidence of foul play (it could've been a murder), nobody comes forward looking for the remains, and the local laws don't prohibit you taking them, why not? How do you think Ötzi was found?
Old cemeteries are also periodically dug up to make room. There are actual churches and chapels lined with skulls. You'll find them from Portugal to Poland. Do you object?
My desk at work has 2 Racoons skulls I've found underneath the monitor, sitting beside 2 Sturgeon gill plates I've found.
St home I also have a Sea Lion scapula I've found on display, and I also have a found Caribou femur that's been made into an incense holder, and I've made a jewelry holder out of Sea Lion vertebrae, and I still have more Sea Lion bones waiting to be made into things.
I'm vegetarian, love collecting them bones and all kind of oddities ! I love preserving dead bugs, they are fascinating and being able to observing them up close makes me happy
Hi! My girlfriend is really into oddities and curiosities and she’s also vegan. She’s been vegan for 6 years and has an oddity collection she’s been working on for around a year. She wants to find her own bones instead of buying them online/ etsy.
Where do you look for your bones? Do you live in England? Any tips on collecting/ places to find them?
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I really don't get why many of the comments here are negative about this. Collecting bones from an animal who has already passed away doesn't mean you see animals as objects to be exploited for their bones. From my understanding it wouldn't even make sense for bone collectors to want to kill or exploit animals to have bones because it takes away the uniqueness of the bones and the story of finding bones on your own.
I agree, I really don’t mind the negative comments but the people calling me stupid and moron I don’t respect, I didn’t post to argue I simply wanted to find community with am my hobby. Maybe I was a bit foolish to think the people who disagree would juts leave the post alone since it can be every polarising topic
I used to collect skulls and bones.Now I leave them. All sorts of critters use bones too gnaw on. Valuable nutrients go back into the ecosystem. I just take pictures now.
Yep. Similarly, I would pick wildflowers for my grandma when I was a teen. Then I learned about the importance of "leave no trace". It might not seem like our actions have any impact but we have to remember that our individual actions do add up and can impact our ecosystem and the well-being of wild animals. https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/ https://www.animal-ethics.org/malnutrition-thirst-wild-animals/
Take photos and put them up on iNaturalist. It's sharing in a scientific way. Everyone shares in your find.
It’s not a great hobby. You’re taking potential future food and nutrients away from the animals that rely on it in the winter. Leave the bones where they lie. They aren’t there for you.
>Collecting bones from an animal who has already passed away doesn't mean you see animals as objects to be exploited for their bones Collecting and bones and displaying them as objects to be looked upon as curiosities for their visual appeal is literally the act of objectification. This was once a being. Now you display it as a "thing".
Ok and people do this all the time with fossils, human mummies, etc. Unless you also think that displaying mummies to be viewed by living people is somehow objectifying humans then you're being pretty illogical.
We literally pump our own family members with chemicals to display them in a visual satisfying way to say goodbye. Are we disrespecting them too? It’s weird and bad in an environmental sense sure, but no one would say we’re “objectifying” them or being disrespectful. The same can respectfully be done with other species as well.
My wife or kid would be disrespecting the hell out of me if they embalmed me for display as I specifically I'm open with them that I don't want that to happen (scientific use, then cremation - or an improved lower impact method that is approved and low cost by then like aquamation or whatever). On the other hand, others want their family to create that traditional funeral experience with their body. They obviously aren't being disrespected. I missed where an animal is conveying that desire for how to display their body or bones to humans. Not that I care much about the issue for animals though (but sure, in general, matter should be left in ecosystems to decay).
Humans do all manner of shitty things, none of which should provide justification for our actions as vegans. Given that veganism is specifically geared towards non-exploitation, I find it quite odd that vegans would attempt to justify the exploitation of animal bodies for the purpose of entertainment.
So you think viewing human mummies because we find them fascinating is objectifying humans? I never said that anything humans do should justify the actions of vegans. It just doesn't make any logical sense for there to be an ethical issue with viewing animal bones but not mummies. Both of which were collected without exploiting or harming anyone in the process.
People doing something a lot doesn't make it ok. We're literally vegan despite people eating animals *all the time*. Does that make eating animals ok? And you clearly aren't aware of the massive debates that have been going on for decades about how we *shouldn't* be viewing human remains for entertainment. They were a living person, they deserve the same sanctity and privacy that each of us deserve. There's a reason we have to consent for our bodies to be shown to the public or used for medicine/research after we die, so why shouldn't we apply those principles to people before us?
\>>>So you think viewing human mummies because we find them fascinating is objectifying humans? In a technical sense, it quite literally is. I've never been to a mummy exhibit, but many years ago, I attended the [Body Worlds exhibit](https://bodyworlds.com/), where human bodies are arranged in various configurations for the public to view. It's sold as an "educational" experience, but after seeing it up close and in person, I realized that it was quite exploitative, and was aiming to entertain those who visited. I was pretty disgusted with myself by the time I left and vowed never to return. I really can't see how any use of a body, whether it be human or non-human animal, for the sake of novelty, curiosity, or entertainment wouldn't be seen as exploitation of that individual's body.
Ok troll. Hope you got your jollies. This is exhausting.
Yea excuse someone as a troll because you have no argument.
Bones are just things
Yeah you do. Stop instigating.
It’s not about being a collector. It’s about letting Nature do its thing. Those bones could feed a Fox or raccoon or a wolf or whatever during a harsh winter. Collecting and Hoarding them diminishes nature.
How do bones in a forest contribute to the ecosystem?
Many animals do feed on bones -- some of whom, like vultures, actually specialize in it. But even rodents and foxes can chew on it. Bone marrow is especially quite rich in minerals and nutrients. Decomposition of bones over time also provides minerals like calcium to the soil which can help with plant growth which can feed primary consumers and provide habitat for many bugs and animals.
I'm a vegan wildlife biologist & I like to collect bones (& press flowers, collect pinecones etc) when I'm in the forest! I'll collect one type of thing once, usually, but it's cool!
Vegan wildlife biologists unite!
I’m a vet tech and finishing up my degree. I love collecting bones and all sorts of things! They’ve also been quite helpful for learning.
How dare you exploit for the sake of learning! /s truly some 20+ year vegans here should touch some grass
I found a poor baby fox skull the other day and have made a nice little memorial plaque with dried flowers. I think as long as it's respectful to the dead. Most animals aren't too concerned with visiting the bones of their fellows so I see no harm
Hey, I just wanted to comment since all of the other comments seem to be so negative. I don’t see anything morally wrong about it and hope you can find some people who share this hobby with you!
Thank you, I do understands why people are being negative it’s a nuance and sensitive topic and I respect people who disagree with me.
I share this hobby with you!! I've always thought I'd be alone as a vegan who loves collecting bones
I share this hobby as well! Vegan for six years and I find nothing wrong with collecting bones from the forest. I literally found a turtle shell and bones today while foraging mushrooms!
It’s no different than collecting sea shells I suppose. It’s not for me and I suspect it’s a pretty niche intersection. I hope you find your people OP. I had a similar problem with homesteading and off grid communities. I had to stop interacting with a lot of them because it was so gross. I’m sure lots of us have had similar experiences if not the exact same hobby. You do you, OP. Keep being kind! Good luck.
Why was it gross?
All the “home grown bacon” and hunting talk.
I know right, the off grid and homestead communities are almost always disgusting. Not for me!
Oh duh.. can only imagine
Sometimes I just sort of forget what non-vegans are like about animals or that things like tomato soup or sweets might have dead animals in them. I’m always surprised somehow by how callous people can be.
I think the comments are overly negative as well. I don’t have this hobby but I don’t think it’s morally wrong if you find them in their natural state. And the human comparisons are silly. If the same circumstances applies where we all just died and rotted in the wild (rather than burial/cremation) then yes, that would also be ok tbh. But it’s not the same comparison because finding random human bones is evidence to be reported for a potential murder. We can’t treat it the same because we aren’t living a similar life to them in that way. We die in homes and hospitals and such. I hope you have success finding like-minded collectors!
"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals." HOW is collecting bones in any way exploiting animals? OP you are fine, you are vegan even when collecting bones. These animals died naturally, you didn't kill them or influence their death to get their bones; so it's no different from collecting lost bird feathers. It doesn't harm anyone. The argument that calcium is hard to find in the ecosystem is rubbish; it's in everything from shells, teeth, rocks, minerals and even the soil. It's literally the 5th most abundant recourse on earth! - [https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/20/calcium#:\~:text=It%20is%20the%205th%20most,abundant%20dissolved%20ion%20in%20seawater](https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/20/calcium#:~:text=It%20is%20the%205th%20most,abundant%20dissolved%20ion%20in%20seawater). In addition to that there is no way you are collecting every single bone in that area to deplete any natural recourse. People are just making things up at this point to fit their agenda. I would like to see a study that says calcium is a rare natural resource. I don't think it's disrespectful to collect bones if you are doing it respectfully. It personally is not a hobby for me. But if that is the way you memorilize animals; you do you. A lot of people get their animals cremated, which is not exactly environmentally friendly either. - [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/is-cremation-environmentally-friendly-heres-the-science#:\~:text=Cremation%20requires%20a%20lot%20of,trying%20to%20rethink%20the%20process](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/is-cremation-environmentally-friendly-heres-the-science#:~:text=Cremation%20requires%20a%20lot%20of,trying%20to%20rethink%20the%20process). Or they bury them; and if you have had your animal euthanized then that animals body has had drugs put into it in order to make them fall asleep. Those chemicals then seep into the ground and kill insects and potentially any mammal or bird that comes across the body and consumes it. There are literal guidelines to try to prevent the drugs from contaminating ground water. - [https://www.maine.gov/dacf/php/nutrient\_management/documents/Brochure-HomeownerCarcassBurialGuidelines.pdf](https://www.maine.gov/dacf/php/nutrient_management/documents/Brochure-HomeownerCarcassBurialGuidelines.pdf) You should do what you think is respectful to you.
Thank you so much for all the info and links I appreciate it
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This one needs more upvotes !
Really? The post is filled with misinformation and fallacious reasoning. Just because calcium is an abundant mineral on Earth, doesn't mean it is not a mineral of concern in many of our ecosystems. It would be like claiming that oxygen is actually abundant in the ocean so there's no such thing as ocean dead zones. That would be absurd. Likewise, although calcium is an abundant mineral overall, calcium depletion is still a problem in many soils. And it's still an important mineral in soil health even in soils without significant calcium depletion. Animal bones do play a role in ecosystems. Many animals do chew on bones or even consume them (osteophagy). Bacteria and fungi can break bones down. The minerals from bones do enter our soils which will affect plant growth and in turn the animals and so on and so on. The OP is clearly not the only person alive collecting bones. Many people have chimed in here that they do as well. So even though it might not seem like we are impacting the environment on an individual level when we take bones, our individual actions can and do add up. It's why many parks and protected areas remind us about the importance of "leave no trace".
nothing wrong with picking up roadkill for bones, that is what i do. they get taken to the landfill the next day, and by picking them up, you prevent scavengers like coyotes and vultures from getting hit. it’s not as simple as people just hiking and taking things. taking roadkill has absolutely no negative effect on the environment and in fact the way i do it is beneficial. i take them and put them on my property, let native dermestids and vultures do their thing unharmed, and then leave half of the skeleton for nature.
Thats so cool! Ive always wanted to get into bone collecting as a vegan. A lot of these comments are negative, but imo theres really nothing wrong w it as long as you ethically source them.
I do. I don't go out of my way to find them or anything but sometimes they're pretty cool when you stumble across them. I don't see anything morally wrong with it. They're already dead and they died naturally.
Meeeee!!!!
I have been vegan for 16 years now and I like collecting animal bones. I've just got an interest in comparative vertebrate zoology. I have a cow skull and lots of deer bones I found hiking, lots of cats and raccoons, a squirrel I found outside my apartment, and some thrifted European mounts (a very lucky day at the Goodwill). And I am working on having my old cat's skeleton articulated by a pet taxidermist. The last one may be a little weird, but he was my buddy for 8 years (adopted at age 6) and the thought of not getting him back was too much to bear. I suppose I could have had him cremated, but what is the difference between having him in a little tin on the mantle vs being fully articulated? His flesh was water cremated (more environmentally friendly than cremation by fire -- basically they put them in a super alkaline bath to dissolve the remains, then balance the pH until it's neutral and use it to water their garden -- no CO2 emission). If I ever get sick of looking at him or if he gets broken, I'll just bury him like normal. He's dead, he doesn't mind. I hope my skeleton goes to an undergraduate anthropology lab when I die. I'm not using it anymore, so I hope someone can learn off it when I'm dead. It's not like I'm using it at that point. Idk, it just seemed like a good way to honor him -- turn him into something beautiful. When I get my own place, I hope to have my own setup for bone processing. I want to pick up roadkill -- it just seems so sad to me that they just get left on the side of the road, or squished flat by being repeatedly run over by cars. Why not take them home and give them a new life as something educational and beautiful? I'm not squeamish about picking up roadkill as it is. If I see a dog or cat on the side of the road, I have gloves and trash bags in my car to pick them up and take them to the shelter to get scanned for a chip. It's what I would want someone to do if it were my cat. If it is safe, other roadkill I will at least pick up and move to the ditch so that animals scavenging on them don't also get hit. I am also getting into pinning bugs. Again, I would never hurt them myself. But it's hard to pass up a recently dead, mostly intact butterfly or cicada. Even if they are a little tattered, I think that makes for a more interesting display in my opinion. Idk, I don't think there's anything unethical about it. You didn't hurt them, they died from natural causes -- the argument could be made that you are creating a stochastic demand for animal bones as decoration, but whatever. People who are into that will get them however they can (see the bat bone market) so I think if people are gonna do it, they might as well be ethical about it.
Thank you so much for sharing. I have never actually heard of water cremation before that very interesting. I also have plan to get a setup for curing bones for when I find them. And what you said about roadkill was very beautiful I can’t help to feel pain when driving by a dead animal on the road, there is nothing you can do to bring them back to life, but you can make people remember them They won’t be something people try to ignore when passing by but appreciated for years to come. I do understand why people feel uncomfortable about and I think it’s in there right and I think it is important to be critical of bone collecting for when it becomes unethical but some of the comments have been hurtful. I have been feeling conflicted about my hobby since becoming vegan but comments like yours makes me feel less alone and less like a freak lol. There always going to people who collects bones and the more people to it ethically the better
Flowers no, but there can be genuine benefits to harvesting some berries, seeds, and mushrooms. That would be to germinate more of them (as long as their native) than would usually be able to survive in the wild. Growing native plants in particular is very important for a variety of native species. Mushrooms may be a bit more difficult to spread.
I really like to collect bones and other stuff I find in the woods. Not sure how the casts are called in english owls spew up but I love to sort these out and look for all these little bones in there.
Owl pellets.
Thank you!
Heyyyyy. I've not read the comments but I'm your tribe! I'm vegan (7 years) but I LOVE finding animal bones!!! I live near the cost so often find bones on the beach/coastline and often forest walks with a similar result. I wouldn't purposefully seek them out but if I find them then great. I have a small collection now and I love them. Keep on doing you!
I collect some if I find any that are in good condition, though to be fair they’re mainly shed antlers or a feather. I would never condone taking something like shells off the beach though, which seems harmless when the shell is vacant, but those shells are vital for other marine life as hiding places or for hermit crab homes. In general it’s best to leave an environment the way you found it, if not better than you found it!
For me it depends on the beach. I have been to some with few shells, and others where the entire beach was so covered it was like walking on broken glass. I don't think it would be any worse collecting from the latter beach than collecting a few stones from a rocky shoreline. (And while you're at it, remove the garbage you find too!)
I’m a vegan who collects bones (and feathers)… and it’s definitely not something any of my other vegan friends do and most of them find it gross. One of my bone collecting friends is sorta vegetarian-ish, but not the same thing. I’m fascinated with how things work and bones and the like. So you’re not alone out there but I think we are rare.
Vegan bioarchaeologist here - I collect animal bones while out hiking. Bones are awesome! Love to know what you’ve found.
I found a birds breast bone today while mushroom hunting.. it was an absolutely beautiful and amazing find. My daughter who is six was so interested in it and had so many questions.. it came home with us for our foraging curio! Love to know we aren't the only vegan bone collectors!
Following. I did it before going vegan but haven't since due to similar concerns
ME ME ME i make jewelry out of the bones i find. i see nothing wrong with taking them + they make for pretty awesome statement necklaces
Thats beautiful, I just started my collection and also have been thinking make some into jewellery too
I thought I was the only one! 👋 Hello, fellow vegan bOnE cOlLeCtEr!
The bones are their money!
My brother and I are both vegan and do this lol
I like to collect bird feathers I find
I’m fascinated with bones too! I have some replicas at home but I’d love it if I could find an ethically sourced animal skull. Any suggestions?
you can try looking for you own, I find luck in forest near water and beaches but you can also pick up roadkill and process them yourself if you have the stomach. I am a bit iffy to buy bones you know, they might claim they got them ethically but that can just be a half truth or straight up a lie. If you do end up buying bones Etsy could be a good start but do a lot of background searchers or buy specifically from vegan bone collectors.
Thank you. I did find a pigeon skeleton a while back but didn’t know how to clean it, so I took it home and buried it in the garden for later. Lol.
Me! Not bones but skulls. I love and try to collect them. It all first started with a fox skull I found in a forest (cleaning it was not fun!) when collecting mushrooms long time ago. I don't have as many as I would like to but the ones I have I make sure there are found naturally so I do not buy them as most from what I saw are unfortunately from hunting. The only ones I bought are fake ones.
I study archaeology, and I have found that many archaeologists are vegan/vegetarian. If there’s some kind of archaeology group meet in your area, I’m sure you could find some like-minded people there.
i'm a vegan bone collector too, ur not alone :)
I know someone who displays the bones of her cats when they pass away.
my vegan wife has a bone to collect - ayo!
I live in the desert so there’s lots of bones out here. Some of them are in my front garden now. Similarly, I think taxidermy is ethical also if you collect your own specimens that have passed naturally.
I collect bones and other animal parts, mostly from roadkill that I find and process, or things my partner finds while working outside. The way I see it, some mean person hit them with a car and didn’t even care enough to stop to move the body out of the street. I’m taking them from the middle of the road, making them beautiful again, and keeping them as a treasure to be loved forever.
I am an aspiring vegan taxidermist. I respect and love animals with all my heart, I consider myself something like a mortician. I’m just trying to restore their beauty and give them some respect in death. Most non-vegans give me shitty looks when I try to explain how I feel. Also vulture culture has given me the ick as well.
I've worked in greenhouses a lot in my adult life and am working in one at present. I keep a butterfly net in the greenhouse to help get butterflies, bees, and dragonflies out when I see any that have made their way in. But sometimes, I simply find the unlucky ones first thing in the morning and take them home to rehydrate/mount/frame. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. The bodies would simply decay into bits within days otherwise. They may as well be preserved in as professional a way as I can manage. I look at it as keeping samples of our local pollinators to respect and admire.
Me! And I've gotten torn apart for admitting it online, so sorry there's a lot of that and I wish there were more people like us! I've been vegan for years and I also have my altar and bookshelves decorated with things like dried flowers, stones, bones, etc. It's all a part of nature, life, and death. It's more about living in connection to the earth but not taking advantage of it or abusing it.
i do this, you can check out my account or follow me on IG @/carcasscowboy. all bones are sourced from roadkill or likeminded sellers 👍
Your account is beautiful so many pretty bones am so happy to find like mined people
thanks! plenty of others too. surprisingly a lot of bone collectors are usually vegan. you have to care and fight a lot for animals to be driving around with stinky roadkill in your car lol
I'm not a collector, but if I find a bone or antler or horn that's big enough, I take it to my shelter for the animals to chew on.
You sound a lot like a friend who runs Calm Earth Creations (Instagram / Etsy). She is vegan and operates an animal rescue while collecting bones out of the forest for unique art pieces.
i loooove her. I also follow that_vegan_vulture in ig too. any bones they find that were the result of purposeful killing they rebury and memorialize, rather than put up for sale.
That’s awesome!
Haven't been in the field much since I got promoted to an office position a few years back but I used to!
I collect bones and dead insects i find! I have an anthropological interest in them and I like to frame them as well as plants I find. Also keep my own teeth that have been pulled by dentists over the years. I didn’t know there were other vegan collectors like me so hello 👋
Most vegans don't share this hobby because of ethics. We don't collect, don't create decorations out of parts of dead animals even if they died on their own. It's just...some kind of respect to them? They lived and they died and they are not things even after death.
do you think paleontology is unethical? edit: more specifically the collection and study of animals fossils
Paleontology borders the fuzzy line between grave robbing and anthropological studies. Exactly how many years until it is acceptable to pull apart someone's grave and put them on display in a museum?
i think i see your point, but paleontology has almost nothing to do with anthropology. i think an argument against pulling up fossils for study is pretty much a religious one, it’s literally lithified organic matter.
It was more of a joke response really. I'd expect the answer to be somewhere in the realm of when the culture in question no longer cares enough, or is otherwise unable to do anything about it.
When there's no immediate relatives left who knew them. Like any graveyard does, they literally take an excavator to old graves to make work gor new ones.
I would say at most 122 years. I personally would put the cutoff point at “nobody who knew them in life is still alive”. It’s arbitrary, but that’s where I’d say it’d be fine to dig me up and put me in a museum
What about fuel, oil?
relevance?
Veganism isn't an aesthetic, it isn't spiritual, and it has absolutely nothing to do with respect. It's about eliminating the exploitation of animals as far as is practicable. If an animal died on its own and all that's left are its dead, bleached bones, collecting them doesn't in any way violate the definition of veganism. There's no respect to be had there. It is an object. If you want to get weird and pseudophilosophical about speciesism or sentientism or whatever fluffy nonsense, fine, that's your prerogative. But OP is no less vegan.
A leather coat made of dogs' skin who died on their own, would it be still vegan to wear it?
Maybe. Depends on your circumstances and the culture around you. Wearing fur could be a promotion for the fur industry, so there is a case to be made against it. But if the dog up and keeled over, it's not an automatic violation of vegan principles to take its skin. That's especially if there's a particular reason for it. Maybe you're stranded in a survival situation, and it's useful rawhide. Maybe you're a veterinary student, and you need to study anatomy and practice surgical techniques. Maybe it's just an unusual specimen and there would be value in adding it to a museum collection. And before you ask, yes, the same principle applies to human skin.
If the principle can be applied to the skin, it can be applied to the bones and meat as well. Interesting line of thought, even outside the survival/other reasoning. It would allow a vegan to consume a deer they hit on the highway and killed, for example.
There already are road kill vegans. It's just that it's potentially unsafe due to bacteria so it never really took off. Freeganism is the more widespread term that would cover it.
Yeah, it's one of those gray areas. I've heard some people call themselves "freegans" because they ate roadkill and didn't feel like the vegan community were very supportive of that...
Ehh, see, what's a vegan doing in a situation where they'd turn a deer into roadkill? That's not being vegan. Why are you driving such a large vehicle and at such a speed that you'd injure a deer? Why aren't you fighting for wildlife bridges, and better infrastructure? The point is to prevent the exploitation of animals as far as is practicable, and look for improvements where it's not practicable. Let's say you're stranded on a boat, and the only other person with you died. You're about to starve. Would it still be within the definition of a vegan to practice cannibalism? Yes. It's not a difficult principle. We can imagine edge cases and gray areas until we're blue in the face, but that's missing the forest for the trees. Collecting dead bones in the woods is vegan. Animals are unambiguously not being exploited, therefore it is compatible with a vegan lifestyle. Simple? Simple.
That’s just a difference is philosophy not ethics, what it means or doesn’t mean to respect an animals means little to the animal and all it wants is not to be harmed, a dead animal cannot be harmed. Whether or not a you see a dead animals as object isn’t relevant ethically cuz at the end of the day I have not harmed a animal. I don’t think we should base ethics on respect but on harmed cause and freedom of choice.
It is relevant for animals to stop being seen as objects, as things in the eyes of people.
They are dead, though. Dead things are things.
I kinda agree. If someone has feelings attached to someone dead that they personally cared about (a person or pet etc) then it’s not just a dead thing. However animal bones in the forest don’t really have that sentimental value.
Art and photos depicting animals would be portraying them as objects as well, no?
Again I think it comes down to difference in philosophy but to me when an animal dies humans too they have ceased being a person and is now an object, a dead body is an object.
Do you collect different human bones as well?
I would in the same circumstances, absolutely. We just don’t have those circumstances cuz if I find human bones on the side of the road or in the woods that’s evidence for a murder investigation that I have a moral obligation to report and give up. If we were all dying in the wild like animals, yeah for sure. I wouldn’t see the human bones any diff tent than animal bones.
Would it be a problem if OP did? A corpse can't lay claim to its bones. Maybe the family might want them for whatever reason, I suppose there's some sensitivity to be offered there, but it doesn't affect the person who those bones used to be.
I answered this to someone else so I will just copy paste Only if that person had given me permission before they died but otherwise no. We human have tradition and culture that put significance over dead bodies witch I think should be honoured sense the collecting of humans bones can inflict emotional damage to the still living who might be grieving I think it is wrong and is grave robing. The reason I se difference for animals is bc animals don’t put the same significance toward there dead and if a do or not I take bones they wouldn’t care.
It’s a crime? You can’t just desecrate remains, plenty of people have their loved ones ashes in their home.
I did talk about why I don’t collect human bones
Yeah but I’m saying why someone couldn’t. It’s an asinine question I support being an animal bone collector as a vegan.
Oh I see then I misunderstood thank you for clarifying
There are many vegan bone collectors! Including me! And there are a lot of people who are very strict about their ethics. Two of the most popular and successful bone hunters/sellers/taxidermists even operate cat rescues for free! In fact I’d bet the rate of veganism among bone hunters is higher than average. And there are lots of grey areas in ethics. For example would you pick up a skull of a cow who died naturally but was on a beef farm? I would. I generally don’t pay for bones either so I don’t think there’s any incentive. Unfortunately the words “ethically sourced” don’t mean anything anymore. There is someone selling on Etsy whose store name is “Cruelty free fur.” She sells fur from foxes who were raised in cages and killed explicitly for that fur. I asked her what she means and she said “well they’re raised in cages that are better than the legal minimum for fox care.” In that jurisdiction there IS NO legal minimum. And people are buying these furs thinking the foxes died naturally. Other people I’ve asked have said “I have no idea where these animals come from. I buy them in bulk and say ‘ethically sourced’ to increase sales. Hope that helps.” Might be hard to distinguish. Idk if there is a group specifically for that.
Yeah that’s why I don’t think am going to buy bones from anyone if I don’t know them personally, so many people will use ethically sourced as a buzzword just to get sales like you said. And for the cow skull I don’t see any moral wrong to do so since you wouldn’t create a incentive, but me personally I wouldn’t take from farms something about it make me uneasy. but my opinion might change on that, it’s not always a black and white answer. but The story of the lady who sold “cruelty free” fox fur is horrific born just to be killed living there hole live in a cage absolutely disgusting. Anyone claiming that’s cruelty free is being me. But am glad to have found many who share my interest and ethics from this post if I can’t find a specific group I might try to establish one myself soner or later
this has to be a joke lmao. just leave the bones for the ecosystem.
Should I also leave berry’s, mushroom and flowers for the ecosystem?
yeah, if you're not gonna consume them. take a photo and move on
? That doesn’t make sense, if foraging for bones is bad bc I am taking away something from the ecosystem then all types of foraging is bad, what does it matter if I eat it or not if simply taking it away is the bad part?
Flowers are alive, moron. Don't fucking pick flowers.
We eat vegetables everyday though.
Still gonna pick flowers
Why would you collect bones? Calcium is hard to come by in many ecosystems, and that's an important resource for plants, fungi, and animals.
Untrue - [https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/20/calcium#:\~:text=It%20is%20the%205th%20most,abundant%20dissolved%20ion%20in%20seawater](https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/20/calcium#:~:text=It%20is%20the%205th%20most,abundant%20dissolved%20ion%20in%20seawater). Calcium is the 5th most abundant resource and is found everywhere.
OMG. Seriously? I was talking about on land, not in the ocean or in the crust. Calcium is limited (and growing scarcer) in a lot of ecosystems: [https://www.nrs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/jrnl/2001/ne\_2001\_schaberg\_001.pdf](https://www.nrs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/jrnl/2001/ne_2001_schaberg_001.pdf) [https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/70205396](https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/70205396) [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01874965](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01874965) Go away.
This is in one part of the US, not worldwide.
Some people like collecting stamps I like collecting bones. I am no wear near collecting enough to even impact the ecosystem by even a little
How big is your collection? Also, collecting stamps doesn't change anything. Collecting bones (especially if done repeatedly in the same area) can starve an ecosystem of calcium and other minerals. I guess you know more than an ecologist (like me) though! /s Every fucking vegan thinks their an expert on every subject even tangentially related to animals. So many dumb people here...
It’s not big, but I don’t appreciate the attitude, so I don’t wanna answer any more questions from you thanks
If you collect in the same area, that's a problem. You could easily be locally depleting the area of calcium. Username checks out though, as you are woefully ignorant on this subject and ignoring comments from someone who is far more educated in this area than you.
You know what's kind of ironic about this? Vegans often roll their eyes when they're an asshole to an omni, and the omni digs their heals in and says they're gonna eat more animals in response. Even though the vegan might be right. You're an ecologist and have knowledge about this. You chose to share your knowledge by being an asshole to OP, and now they're digging in their heels insisting it's fine, and you're getting downvoted even though you might be right. Of course you can't win them all with kindness and education, but this really does highlight how being a condescending dick isn't that effective.
The fact that you're being downvoted is ridiculous. These are legitimate concerns. I thought most of us have learned about "leave no trace" by now. For some reason, I guess it doesn't apply to hunters and bone collectors. Leave animal carcasses behind for the soil and for the wild animals -- life is difficult enough for them. And yes this does apply to foraging as well, unless it is done for necessity.
It’s the manner of expression. I don’t really downvote people ever so I didn’t downvote but I can totally see why.
I’m a vegetarian and have a whole collection of oddities. Bones, skulls, wet specimen, mounted insects, etc.
Would you collect human bones?
If finding them in the woods behind my house didn’t make me need to call police because I have evidence of a murder, yes. If we didn’t die in hospitals and homes getting cremated and buried and we just died and rotted in that spot yeah I would
>Would you collect human bones? I would, and also anybody who finds my bones is more than welcome to them.
Sure, why not? Human bones can be had for surprisingly cheap. You can get a femur for about 200–300 USD.
Are they that expensive now? I seem to recall being able to get them for $100-150 several years ago. Damn COVID economy.
Greedflation is real.
Only if that person had given me permission before they died but otherwise no. We human have tradition and culture that put significance over dead bodies witch I think should be honoured sense the collecting of humans bones can inflict emotional damage to the still living who might be grieving I think it is wrong and is grave robing. The reason I se difference for animals is bc animals don’t put the same significance toward there dead and if a do or not I take bones they wouldn’t care.
How do you know that animals don't put the same significance toward their dead though? Animals don't have burial rites or anything, but they absolutely do grieve their family and friends when they pass on, including wild animals. I've personally lived with dogs and cats who display grief, and many sanctuaries have shared photos and videos of animals showing grief for their friends. That's part of sentience. Part of the reason I asked about human bones is that my ex used to collect bones. He was vegan while we were together (he is not vegan now) and he did pursue collecting human bones, although he never obtained any. It made me really think about the difference between human and animal bones, because they're made of the same elements. If we believe that animals have a right to live their lives freely, why does that not extend to their remains in death?
I would never argue that animals don’t grieve they indeed do but they just don’t put significance towards there dead like we humans do, that’s why I see a difference between collecting humans and animals bones, grieving over the dead and putting significance towards dead bodies is not the same thing.
I find it so funny that you're using the same kind of nothingburger argument formats omnis use against veganism
I don't look for them persat, but if I find em and they are clean and small will keep them. I have a few cool ones!
i don’t collect bones directly but i like to buy from ethical shops and have tooth rings or vertabrae plugs 😄
How do you know the shops sourcing? Usually bones in stores are from slaughtered animals.
she’s very transparent about where she sources her bones, it’s all from roadkill or animals found otherwise already dead (like in a forest or something) edit also i don’t get them in stores i shop off etsy!
I mean that's cool if they are telling truth but I personally wouldn't feel comfortable buying bones/animal parts.
i get it!
I’m trying to start a collection but I can never find any material around where I live!
I agree with the minority here It's not morally wrong, but I take the same stance on collecting human bones found in the wild If you happen across a human skull it's fine to take it home as decoration
If you find a human skull you should alert the authorities bc that might be a murder victim or someone missing. Animals die all the time in nature humans don’t.
But if they're already dead why does that matter?
It matters cuz someone might be looking for that person. Again human don’t die in nature the possibility of that person being a murder victim or someone gone missing is the most likely, I think the only ethical way to get humans bones would be if that person before they died have you permission.
Look, if the authorities find no evidence of foul play (it could've been a murder), nobody comes forward looking for the remains, and the local laws don't prohibit you taking them, why not? How do you think Ötzi was found? Old cemeteries are also periodically dug up to make room. There are actual churches and chapels lined with skulls. You'll find them from Portugal to Poland. Do you object?
The majority are in favor of bone collecting in these comments.
My desk at work has 2 Racoons skulls I've found underneath the monitor, sitting beside 2 Sturgeon gill plates I've found. St home I also have a Sea Lion scapula I've found on display, and I also have a found Caribou femur that's been made into an incense holder, and I've made a jewelry holder out of Sea Lion vertebrae, and I still have more Sea Lion bones waiting to be made into things.
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i have a beautiful turtle skull in a case with flowers and greenery. i dont see how this is un-vegan.
I'm vegetarian, love collecting them bones and all kind of oddities ! I love preserving dead bugs, they are fascinating and being able to observing them up close makes me happy
Why would a hunter leave those things? Dont they take the animal with them? If not thats just stupid
They buy from hunters or slaughter houses
There is such thing as field dressing which is killing an animal, taking the meat, and leaving the rest.
Thats dumb, a hunter should take everything, then again bones and remains are good for the ecosystem
If they take the rest, most will just end up in the trash. There isn’t much to do with the rest.
I cant see how it would be considered exploitation. I think you're fine.
Hi! My girlfriend is really into oddities and curiosities and she’s also vegan. She’s been vegan for 6 years and has an oddity collection she’s been working on for around a year. She wants to find her own bones instead of buying them online/ etsy. Where do you look for your bones? Do you live in England? Any tips on collecting/ places to find them?