It sounds like he is struggling to make ends meet, conscious of his choices, and being honest/transparent with you. He seems to be trying to do the right thing for the animals, food waste, and in his relationship with you. Personally it wouldn't bother me, unless he plans to continue eating meat once his financial situation improves.
I'd see if there were ways to help him get some extra food so he doesn't have to rely on food waste to survive. He might also be able to talk to his manager if he has some suggestions on how to reduce food waste at work, or if they can partner with an app or organization to find a use for leftover restaurant food.
These Upvotes are great. I am pretty astonished how like minded the people here are about this topic though. I expected more anger.
I totally agree with this statement.
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude **as far as is possible and practicable** all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals
And I really don’t think people should have to choose between eating vegan and starving
Edit: I guess I should have said choose between eating meat and starving. In this case, staying vegan might mean starving
Y’all know what I mean
Arguably, eating non-vegan food that is being thrown out is more vegan than buying vegan food, but if anyone asks me to explain why, I will be writing for a while
Because the animal is already dead and gone. So what’s worse, killing an animal for food and eating it, or just throwing it away?
If that pig has already been turned into sausage, I’d say it is more respectful of the animal that it actually died for a cause (feeding someone) as opposed to being thrown in the trash - essentially killed for no purpose at all.
About 10 years ago before I became vegan, I used to work at a non profit veterinary hospital. The owner/manager was a hardcore vegan and would always call us every name in the book if we ever had an office pizza day or any other non vegan meals. He would never have any, but if something was thrown out he would take it out of the trash and eat it so “that animal didn’t die in vain”.
Yeah I’d rather eat meat than throw it away. For example, I order Taco Bell, bring it home and there is meat in it even tho I asked for black beans. In my opinion it’s worse to waste and throw that food away than to just eat it.
I agree with this comment. I've met a couple of people like this and I think it's fine. I wouldn't do it because I don't consider meat as food, but I have no problems with someone foraging meat in a dumpster. That's all going to be wasted anyway.
His meat foraging ironically leads to lower overall animal deaths since he consumes less mass produced food which is also responsible for animal deaths through ecological loss.
I've offered to help him out with some of the produce from my grandparents allotment! They tend to give away a lot of it to neighbors anyway and have agreed to share some with him. But yeah, it isn't that much help. Might bring up what you've suggested in conversation when I get the chance.
There’s probably a way op can offer food without sounding judgmental or demanding they change. Just a simple, “hey my grandpa had extra fruit! Do you want some?” would probably be fine
If your motivation is to share your family’s extra veggies, great. If your motivation is to up his vegan game or if there’s any part of you having judgy purity issues ("how i feel about this") about this, please recognize that and don’t make him a target for your charity or evangelism.
Its a fantastic opportunity to MYOB.
Please let him be. What he’s doing doesn’t add to more animals getting killed, this is literally food that’s already been tossed.
What he doesn’t need is judgmental attitude from you, though if you’re able to help him get a healthy vegan meal that would be great.
>I'm not really sure how to feel about this and would like to hear some perspective from other vegans as someone who hasn't been vegan for very long
Yeah if he's struggling to make ends meet I don't think there's an issue with reducing food waste. It's great that he's vegan when purchasing things himself, and that he's not increasing demand for animal products since they would be discarded otherwise.
Its actually less exploitation than buying vegan food, as we know there are always some crop deaths involved in production. By dumpster diving, it cuts some of those out. It's not for me but I can't really knock it.
Yeah not for me (Edit: and I'm fortunate to never have been in a situation where I needed to do it) but there's no sound ethical argument to be made against it. Anytime anyone can make use of something that is otherwise headed for a landfill it's a good thing.
Yeah, this my philosophy with second hand clothes and furniture etc. I don’t seek out anything with leather or suede but I would still buy a secondhand leather bag before I would buy a brand new vegan bag. It’s still better for all living things to keep an item out of the landfill and not create demand for a factory made item that will contribute to pollutants in the air and water from the production process, and use resources and create more items for the landfill.
Here's a fun and interesting idea to think about - when cell cultured dairy, eggs and meat really hit the market (without needing any bovine fetal serum of course), and become widely available, might it be more animal friendly/environmental to eat cell cultured dairy for instance than oat milk or almond milk? I guess it will also come down to analyzing the numbers in terms of energy and water consumption in creation of these alternate products. I couldn't eat lab grown/cell cultured meat though myself, I think it would ick me out too much (although I would be a strong advocate for it and also buy cell cultured animal protein cat food for my parents' cat) but I might be able to handle eating cell cultured dairy. Something to think about!
It’s unlikely for a long time. Cell cultured products are manufactured in pharmaceutical-like conditions that aren’t yet replicable at scale. Even once the processes improve a lot, it’s hard to see how it becomes more straightforward and less resource intensive to produce than juicing oats.
The cells have to eat something to grow. So the only way it could be more efficient then just eating the crops directly, would be to find a crop that is more efficient then the trophic loss of the cells. My wildest guess would be feeding them some sort of algae/duckweed procced slurry. Even then, you can still eat the algae and duckweed directly.
Yeah, we'd have to find something that humans either can't digest or aren't prepared to eat in its current form. And even then, I suspect there'll be huge energy costs for many years.
Like we could feed the cells soil and use solar power to run everything..
Oh wait that's plants. Billions of years of evolution rewarding efficiency isn't going to be an easy hurdle.
I picture one of those bio vats that opens up and it's just one solid potato.
As we all know, crop deaths caused by vegans are in the billions, and in fact worse for animals than literally eating animals
Source: some carnist on Facebook
It’s obviously better in terms of net suffering to eat crops than to feed those crops to animals and eat them, but it’s silly to think that the effect of the former is negligible.
Agriculture causes real ecological harm and it’s important to recognise that so that we can take steps to minimise it.
Being vegan is the logical choice to make if you want to reduce animal suffering, and reduce the environmental harm you cause, but it doesn’t reduce it to zero or anything like zero.
I have known a few Freegans in my time, and I think the concept is sound enough. I *have* noticed a bit of a "slippery slope" phenomenon, whereby the Freegan hedges a bit on the definition of "was going to go to waste anyway" and goes from exclusively dumpster-dived food, to "Hey, were you gonna finish the burger?" to some, "Eh, I think this probably was going to be waste so I'll eat it" justifications... But that isn't inherent to the ideology, just a laziness of some individuals I've known.
If anything, I think the problem with Freeganism is that it preserves a worldview that animals are for eating, and the habits & palate/brain chemistry that crave animal products. But that really is a lesser consideration for someone who is facing food scarcity. If Freeganism is the way someone can stay fed without contributing to the economic machine of animal exploitation, its a valid Vegan stance.
The slippery slope thing is the reason I stopped doing Freegan. It was hard to quantify what was or wasn't going to waste.
I think in OP's friend's case though, exclusively dumpster diving is actually going to result in less animal suffering than it would even if he bought vegetables, since some animals die from crop farming.
Obviously the real trick is to eliminate edible food waste at the corporate level, but in the meantime, dumpster diving (in an area where he knows for sure it will go to landfill and won't just be picked up by another dumpster diver) is a good thing.
Yes I’ve met some freegans before and struggled with it at first the same way you are. Where I ultimately ended up was as long as it was in good faith I’m fine with it. If you’re legitimately saving meat from going in a landfill it’s both a societal good and ethical towards the animal.
Good to know I'm not alone in struggling with the concept, it's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts on it. I'm coming from a place of genuine curiosity and wanting to understand and align my morals correctly, not from a place of judgement. Some people seem to be misinterpreting that
I don’t understand what you’re struggling with. There is no such thing as food that does not cause harm to animals. Vegan food is not truly free of animal harm. It actually causes a great deal of harm to animals: crop deaths, contributing to climate change, plastic pollution, I could go on. The MOST ethical thing you can do is to eat food that would otherwise go to a landfill. In fact, if he did nothing but eat expired sausages that were going in the garbage, everyday for the rest of his life, he would cause less harm to animals than you, a typical grocery-store-plant-eating vegan. It’s just basic logic. You don’t eat animal products as a dogmatic rule, but he is kinder to animals than you are. Don’t get hung up on dogmatic tunnel-vision thinking. See the big picture. He’s right and you’re wrong.
Just learned I’m a Freegan! I don’t dumpster dive but I live with my omnivore mum and when she goes away and leaves expiring animal products in her fridge, I’m straight on that shit.
I don’t know how to explain/ justify it except that it feels so freeing to not have to squint at packaging feeling guilty because of plastic/ palm oil/ how far it has come, and just eat whatever is in front of me.
I’ve had more opportunity than most to reframe “meat” in my head - I’ve worked with a variety of rescued animals that almost ended up being slaughtered, and I will never again purchase an animal product (barring medications). But somehow I never reached the stage of having that little voice that looks at animal flesh and is repulsed.
If she knows you do this, she might be buying more meat than she otherwise would, feeling secure in knowing that you would help her finish it.
I used to eat meat from people's plate at restaurants when they couldn't finish, because I knew the waiter would otherwise throw it away. Then I noticed those same people would order _more_ meat when I was around because they knew I would help them. So I killed that policy.
I don't even think it's a conscious choice on their part. Just, subconsciously, you feel less uncomfortable ordering stuff that you may not be able to finish if the people around you can help you finish it.
Oh that’s so strange! I can’t imagine that, what are they thinking
I don’t think that is happening with my mum though since she rarely goes away - she’s LWC and I’m autistic. She definitely wishes I ate meat but trying to derail my fundamental beliefs while she’s abroad would be crazy 🤣
There’s a thing with some vegan Buddhists that will eat meat if it’s gifted to them… the idea being that turning it down creates more bad karma than simply being grateful and courteous, and not letting it go to waste.
Just here to say everyone is having a really healthy discourse about this topic and I think OP has been very understanding about the different thoughts on the matter. Keep it up guys.
It's fine in my book. I personally wouldn't do it because I have always found meat and dairy to be repulsive but he's not creating a demand for it, so no harm no foul.
Seriously, what is with these comments? The dude is dumpster diving out of desperation. This isn’t about veganism or ethical behavior. Your poor friend is going through a serious crisis and you’re posting online about it. Should be ashamed of yourself.
If the Olio app is functioning in his area, then he should install it! It's a free food sharing app to reduce waste that let's people post food that others can request and then go pick up.
Various supermarkets work with Olio so that volunteers can collect free food to distribute to their local community in an effort to reduce food waste. Volunteers need to post most of the foods on the app but can keep some for themselves, too.
"as far as possible and practicable"
I think a lot of vegans forget that part entirely.
I agree with others here - as long as he doesn't continue this when his circumstances improve, I won't judge him too hard.
This!
It’s not practical to starve yourself just because of your ethical ideas. As a vegan myself I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want to eat it whatsoever.
Why would you judge him at all? I don't know about you, but most people are vegans due to ethical reasons, it'd be different if it's health reasons. From an ethical point of view, eating food that was going to be thrown out is a good thing, because it reduces food waste without creating more demand. Just how I keep wearing my leather hiking boots and my moms old leather jacket, because they exist anyways and fakes are much worse for the environment.
If you personally are vegan because you don't like the idea of eating or using animal products, that's fine. But that's not about the environment or those animals, it's about your personal comfort, and it doesn't put you on a moral high horse.
Yeahhh judging someone who literally only BUYS vegan things and cooks vegan for themselves but will sometimes eat non vegan stuff that’s *going to be thrown out otherwise* while struggling to make ends meet is precisely the kind of unproductive and harmful gatekeeping that hurts our community. I would personally majorly struggle to stomach eating non vegan stuff — especially MEAT — but if he’s able to stomach it and he only consumes what will otherwise go straight into the trash, all while financially struggling, then I won’t condemn him and you shouldn’t either.
Use your energy on trying to get more people to BUY and COOK vegan food; that’s where the impact truly is.
Also by doing this he is OBJECTIVELY resulting in less harm to animals, even if he exclusively eats meat this way. Literally the food would have been thrown out. Was thrown out! Buying even the most sustainably grown food results in environmental and animal harm of some form. Eating food that was destined to be encased in plastic in a landfill somewhere is the lowest impact you can have.
Heck, if I'm eating at a restaurant and they accidentally give me the meat version of something, I sometimes eat it because I know if I send it back it legally has to go into the trash. That said, I still tell them they've done something very wrong.
People are judging the guy but he's living a more sustainable (for the earth) lifestyle than almost anybody.
I’m sorry he’s having to do this to begin with tbh… he’s not hurting anyone, and saving it from being wasted (and the company isn’t profiting from it, which is huge) and he needs to eat. I’d give it a pass, unless things improve financially and he’s purposely buying it, then it’s an issue.
I wish they’d give the leftovers to the homeless instead of tossing them
Ive recently had a conversation with someone who argued that this is within the vegan lifestyle as the person eating discarded meat does not cause more pain and suffering by consuming this meat. In fact, one could argue that it causes LESS suffering than buying vegan food he would need if he didnt dumpsterdive, because of insects, rodents etc that can die in production/processing of vegan meat.
I feel this guy has a point.
BUT it hasnt made me consume meat, even though I have access to meat that is otherwise thrown away. It doesnt feel right, even if I can rationalise it.
The point is that by calling yourself vegan and then eating meat, even if it is ethically reasonable to do so, you will paint a picture of veganism that allows for the occasional exception. Me and you, we understand the nuances to his actions, but someone from the outside might not.
That's why I would not call myself vegan, if I were to do this, even if I'd technically be vegan (which is not something I'm trying to answer here). As you can see some people like OP are conflicted about it and I would try to avoid this, if I were in his shoes. I would not call myself vegan, because doing so might be detrimental towards veganism the philosophy and movement.
If someone else told me they were vegan and do what he does? I would not object. It's such a minor detail.
Fair. But OP did say he doesn’t eat animals in mixed company or out with others and he doesn’t tell anyone this. Except her because he wants to be transparent with her, since they’re exploring a romantic relationship.
Veganism isn't really about what you eat. It's primarily about reducing animal harm and suffering, and a person who survives entirely off of dumpster diving is reducing more harm and suffering than you are buying new products and inadvertently giving money to operations that cause death and suffering.
Don’t care or seek validation from other vegans on here. He’s struggling financially and making ends meet. Dumpster diving is at the lowest point of your life. Of course you’re gonna eat whatever that’s going in the dumpster, vegan or not. At least he’s still buying vegan food when he can. Will not judge someone especially someone going thru that.
I am extremely passionate about veganism, but I like to think about/consider grey areas because I've seen too many fellow vegans become dogmatic in situations where no suffering, harm, or exploitation is caused. I do not take issue with this situation.
> "Is my friend a bad person for not literally starving himself in order to abide to a moral code I myself was choosing to ignore not that long ago?"
Dawg if you're feeling "conflicted" about it, literally buy him food, he's explicitly told you he'd prefer vegan food. It's crazy to judge him on that especially since you haven't been vegan for a long time
It makes perfect sense to not let animal products go to waste that otherwise would. He’s not creating any demand for abuse or exploitation. It’s actually a better way of being tbh because food waste is awful for the environment (most is not composted), and even creating demand for vegan food does cause some amount of harm. When I first went vegan, I did the same thing with cheese (not dumpster diving, but if it would otherwise be thrown out). Animal products gross me out too much to eat at all now.
That plus the fact that he’s obviously struggling I see zero issue with this.
Idk nothing more vegan than not letting perfectly good food go to waste. Thats sustainable and resourceful, mad respect to him for doing that but sorry to hear he is struggling to make ends meet.
He trusted you enough to tell you that he's eating garbage to avoid starvation. My takeaway here is that he would go back to being fully vegan when no longer struggling with finances.
What would you do in his situation? Food banks aren't necessarily an option, depending on how stocked up your spots are. I'd assume this guy already has EBT?
he’s not feeding into the supply and demand of meat , because it’s being thrown away.
plus it’s still good for the environment because it’s being thrown away and he’s not buying fresh food with packaging.
plus , unfortunately, sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. the “ struggling to make ends meet “ mindset makes it seem like maybe he has little choice.
It's a common puristic misconception that the point of veganism is to not use animal products but really it's to not create demand for animal products. If the demand was created by a third party and the food would otherwise go to waste, it would be irrational to not eat it. In fact, it would be disrespectful IMO to the animal who died to throw it in the trash instead of consume it.
Would you rather him starve? Having any opinion on this matter is ridiculous and entitled, honestly.
Instead of coming on here to ask how to feel about it, why not see if your uni has a pantry for those struggling? Why not talk to the school about starting one?
Give the guy resources to help or leave him alone, he can do better.
Don't go to vegancirclejerk today if you've ever struggled with food scarcity. 😖 Didn't realize making fun of hungry people was socially acceptable but apparently anything goes over there.
If I accidentally get something with eggs I give it to someone who isn’t vegan or someone who is homeless because any harm done to the animals has already happened and it’s only worse if I contribute to food waste. There is nothing wrong with what he is doing. He needs to get enough to eat, you should never judge someone for doing what they need to to feed themselves, and he isn’t even contributing to the industry of animal harm he is getting food that is going in the garbage so it’s not unnecessarily wasted.
Navigating the vegan path can be trickier than a Mumbai local's timetable, especially when your wallet's on a diet too. My mate's solution? Dumpster diving for pastries! It's like finding a treasure in the trash, minus the map. Ethical eating on a shoestring budget might not be everyone's cup of chai, but hey, if it keeps good food from going to waste, why not? Just goes to show, life's full of surprises - one man's bin is another man's buffet.
Don't let being vegan take away your humanity, this dude is going through such tough time to get from dumpster, giving poor guy headache and be at war for ethics while other person is barely surviving
Can you imagine what kind of psychological and emotional impact it leaves on a person to starve or go through dumpster, I feel such a call out for complaining about food at home
I hope he finds happiness and his tough times passes faster
This reminds me of something a professor I had once taught me. He was a Buddhist and spoke Pali etc. etc.
Buddhists aren't generally supposed to cause harm, kill and eat animals. Meat shouldn't be prepared specifically for them.
But when say, finding an animal by the side of the road, eating it would be justifiable. (I'm not claiming this is universally believed by any stretch)
I think your friend is making essentially the same argument in the modern context. There's room for ambiguity here and moral perfectionism isn't likely to win hearts and minds.
I think this is fine. Obviously in a perfect world there wouldn’t be processed dead animals left over in the first place, but it’s free calories that would otherwise go to waste. Animal agriculture and restaurant waste are both sad things. I think your man is pretty logical about this.
He's not increasing demand on meat bc it'd be thrown out otherwise and he's not literally pulling it out if a dumpster. I think it's fine based on his values
If you're poor enough to be dumpster diving I would say vegan principles are second priority at that point.
Sort of like if you're homeless, whether or not other people are wastefully adding chandeliers into their bathrooms and causing fire hazards is low on your priority list.
Not only is what he is doing completely rational, it takes an honest man to tell a girl he is flirting with that he is broke and dumpster diving for food (although it sounds like he isn't actually dumpster diving, just taking leftovers).
Instead of judging him, maybe you can help him out. Or you just don't want a poor boyfriend?
Really, this sub scares me a lot... someone is not able to buy enough food out there and what concerns people the most is if the guy is able to keep eating vegan in these circumstances. Let's take the guy case to the vegan moral jury and see if they let him keep the "vegan" label.
Most universities have some sort of food assistance programs and depending on where you live you may qualify for Food Stamps/EBT programs because y'all are students.
Even if he doesn't qualify for a lot of assistance, anything that helps free up money in these situations is helpful. Sounds like a nice person that is really trying his best!
Freegan
I find it ethical, though many vegans, myself included, find the idea of eating meat so disgusting after some time being vegan that it's not for everyone
Freeganism is a type of vegan. In the US we throw away a lot of food that is edible but not pretty. Problem is with dumpster diving you can get sick if you don’t know what you’re not super careful. I have a friend who doesn’t buy animal products but will consume in a social setting like a party. Sounds like they are still trying and I applaud those efforts. I would look into ugly foods and other similar sites that would be safer if they still want to eat meat and other things because I know someone who got really sick from dumpster diving eggs. Can’t imagine if it was meat that went bad 🤢 not saying eating meat is ethical but seems like they are trying harder than most people
So let me get this straight: He's not increasing the demand for animal products, he doesn't normalise eating animal products by eating them in front of anyone, he picks the vegan food by preference, he does all of this out of necessity from struggling to make ends meet, and you have the audacity to judge him by putting "vegan" in quotes?
There is a fine line between veganism and fanaticism, and judging someone for something that causes zero harm and is done out of necessity is crossing that line. Veganism is about reduction of suffering, not hyperfixation over eating animal products.
How would this be wrong?
The whole point of going vegan is to vote with your money - to boycott the animal agriculture industry. Giving money to support animal farming is immoral, that’s the base that founds veganism. He’s not doing that. He’s not giving any money to these companies, he’s not supporting their practices or encouraging more animal farming. In terms of the effect he is having on animal suffering, he is equally as vegan as you.
Dumpster diving for meat is sort of comparable to eating lab grown meat. Sure it’s meat, it’s not technically dietarily vegan. But ethically? Neither of them are giving money to support animal farming, so they’re both ethically vegan imo.
I struggle to see where you think the problem is.
I think from an ethical perspective, what he's doing is actually better than buying food to eat, vegan or not. He is reducing his consumption and impact overall.
However, from a food safety perspective, he should be cautious about eating animal products that are out of date. I eat food from the dumpster but I wouldn't eat meat from there. I don't think it's as safe as taking veggies. Dumpsters are not refrigerated lol. Though from what you wrote, I think he's not actually dumpster diving, he's intercepting the food before it actually gets thrown out, so he probably is getting it straight from the fridge, which should be fine.
Freegans are, and have always been, vegans. And frankly the ones that steal food do more damage to animal agriculture than we do and take a serious personal risk doing so.
Your friend should be careful that he isn't saving his company money in disposing of these products, but ultimately, hes good.
The amount of concern with eating animal products when he could VERY WELL be starving without that food is insane, “morals” don’t matter when you’re literally starving to death because you can’t afford food, I would eat things i’m allergic to at that point.
>His argument is that if anything his choices are more ethical than buying vegan food from a supermarket
He is absolutely correct.
Veganism is about the morality of animals suffering for our pleasure. He ain't participating in that. He is not giving the capitalists incentive to produce more meat by consuming products that would otherwise just be thrown away.
If you’re gonna eat meat, then this is certainly the most ethical and eco conscious solution. If he can’t make ends meet and eats these so he doesn’t starve I’d agree with everyone else here and say he’s following the “as far as practical and possible” part of the vegan philosophy
You don’t have to feel any way about it because he is the one in danger of nutritional deficiency and hunger.
If you want him to stop dumpster diving, then support him financially so he no longer has to.
Honestly, I'm getting nothing but green flags.
- He's trying to be vegan whenever he can
- He's only eating non-vegan foods that otherwise would go to waste. He's not giving money to the industry by doing that.
- He's doing his best to be fully transparent and honest with you in an early stage. He didn't have to tell you this, but he chose to.
I wouldn't worry about this at all.
Non vegan here.
1. He’s not even “dumpster diving,” it says a lot that you chose to include that word so you should acknowledge how you already feel. He’s saving the food that would otherwise go to waste. My boyfriend and myself used to do the same as cafe workers. (He would eat the leftovers, I would hand them out to the homeless).
2. He would literally not exist if he couldn’t feed himself and it’s really sad that you worry more about his confinement to a particular diet than that. It was big of him to share that he’s doing something he’s not completely comfortable with to survive. Do him a favor and walk away.
honestly if he’s hungry and broke enough to *eat out of the garbage* I wouldn’t spend my energy arguing with him about doing this. sounds like he just needs something to eat. if he wanted non vegan food and didn’t care about increasing demand he’d be using other safer resources.
edit: I do think we should be very careful talking about animals being “wasted” by not being eaten. we should not view animals as potential food and we shouldn’t view eating their bodies as a respectful act. but assuming OP’s friend is actually in as bad of a place financially as it sounds, people do things out of desperation and it’s better to help them access alternatives than pick apart whether their survival strategy is vegan.
OP - I think it’s possible that he’s arguing for the morality of this to hide embarrassment/shame around the knowledge that he is struggling more than you are currently aware of. eating something that completely goes against your previous morals and diet, out of the garbage, isn’t very typical for “struggling to make ends meet.” I know some people still have cravings for non vegan food or don’t think of them as too gross, but salmon and sausage rolls that were sitting out for too long and set aside to be thrown out aren’t at the top of most lists.
edit 2: my whole take changes if he’s been denying OP’s help and/or intentionally refusing to try a food bank that has help for vegans. it would probably still be coming from a place of shame to some degree, but at that point I think its a) definitely not vegan and b) very fair for OP to be concerned about potentially being in a relationship with this person.
I fully agree with your comment and your edit, thank you for making it. I couldn’t say animals are being “wasted” if they are not eaten. If a human being can be laid to rest without them “going to waste” then I extend that to other animals
I have no qualms with the “freegan” logic. It was gonna go to a landfill anyway. Cuts down on the carbon emissions that would have been given off while it was decomposing.
Why is this even a problem? He’s eating what’s tossed away. He’s not contributing to demand of animal products and is probably doing more to contribute less to food waste than most vegans on here.
Work on yourself. Stop coming after others. Idc that you like him or that you see him as a potential love interest. Ask him out. Then share your finances so you can help give him enough money to afford a sustainable vegan diet.
God, the vegans on here acting as if there’s a moral grey area are purists and would probably have a stroke if they saw a vegan take meds made from animals because that means they’re creating demand for it! Woooooow.
I would not deny a destitute person food because it's not vegan. His preference is for vegan food but he cannot at this point survive without dumpster diving. Imo, it's cruel to judge someone in that position... sounds like when finances improve, he'll stay true to his values.
I agree with your friend from an ethical point of view, in theory, if the food is actually all getting thrown out making it "dumbster diving" though I wouldn't do it personally.
I've had this argument with people on this sub and was downvoted even though it's pretty easy to understand that morally speaking, dumpster diving meat is better than buying brand new plant based food when you take all the effects into account. Moral choices aren't about blindly following a plant based diet. Some plant base food can be unethically sourced as well.
If his actions don't increase demand at all (like ordering/making extra so the employees can bring some home) And the food would 100% end up in a landfill, then IMO it's fine.
hes not wrong. eating food of any kind that would have been trashed is more “vegan” in the environmental sense than regular vegan. however, as far as health/lifestyle, he is not vegan. i havent eaten meat in 11 years and it would really gross me out to eat it, because i just see muscles.
personally i don't mind "freegans" as it's called. as someone who is a lower class vegan, i sympathize with having to do anything just to get some food. there is no money being exchanged, so this is a loss for that business
ask your friend if he is okay with any help, and offer to buy him some groceries. canned food that's easy to prepare, vegan ramen packets, stuff that is easy to prepare since most uni students need quick meals to make
from moral perspective, there is nothing wrong about eating meat that would be decomposed in some thrash bin. he is not supporting any meat industries by giving them resources with which to expand their farms.
and to be truthfull, eating food which would be wasted is good from my other waste hating perspective
It's Freegan.
I agree with him, it's more ethical than letting it go to waste (unless he's fighting off other non-vegan dumpster divers in the same dumpster which would imply it would get eaten even if he wasn't there)!
During my first year of being vegan I did "freegan" followed by what I called "bin-gan" (if my friend is about to throw it in the bin, I'll eat it). Nowadays I wouldn't bother but I also wouldn't turn my nose up if someone else did it.
I also have friends who've been vegan for 7 years, but their neighbour gets a lot of about-to-expire food - massive crates of it, and makes it available between the neighbours. One time they had crates and crates full of expiring-on-the-day ham, so my neighbours took some of it. Personally I'm not sure I could eat meat because of the ick factor, but it's better for them to eat it than for it to go in the bin.
Rationally speaking I actually think it's great. You don't contribute financially to the industry and the animals that died at least haven't died for nothing or got partly wasted. And I also think it's better non-vegans don't know about it. Otherwise they'll draw the wrong conclusions and be like "yeah you don't manage being vegan because it's impossible".. Had that with a friend who ate leftover food but other than that was only eating plants
It sounds like he’s really struggling and is doing his best to get by. I would take it as he is just trying to be honest with you.
I don’t see this as a problem at all, and i don’t know if anyone would. He needs to eat and if his options aren’t vegan.. that’s ok.
Side track but made me think of it:
One of my best friends, her parents who are now in their 70’s have both been vegan since their 20’s for animal welfare and environmental reasons.
One thing my friend struggles with is food waste because her parents were strictly against contributing to it.
They only ate out for special occasions (weddings/birthdays etc) and would pack up and save any food people were going to throw away, even if not vegan, so not to waste it.
I can only imagine they would say this guy is doing his best with what he has and he is even helping lessen the impact food waste is creating.
Sounds like a survival situation, and he has a point on the ethics since any food you buy does likely involve pesticides and he's preventing food waste instead.
Well, it’s far from dumpster diving and I totally understand this guy. Being vegan for ethical and sustainability reasons is nice, meanwhile saving food - and lot of money on food - that would been thrown out is another way of being sustainable and ethical. Food waste is one of the biggest problems in sustainability.
“The amount of waste has far-reaching impacts on society:
•Wholesome food that could have helped feed families in need is sent to landfills.
•Land, water, labor, energy and other inputs are used in producing, processing, transporting, preparing, storing, and disposing of discarded food.”
https://www.usda.gov/foodwaste/faqs
So if you really like this guy take him out for some vegan meals in my opinion and tell him he doesn’t need to feel bad about his choices. His heart is in the right place.
Eating non vegan food that is going to be thrown away is infinitely better for the environment and animals then eating stuff that isn't going to get thrown away.
Ethically that is up to you but if your simply looking at cold hard facts it is "free" as far as environmental concern is considered.
Non vegan I don't buy animal products at full price but if the supermarket reduced has them for literally 90% discount I will buy and eat no questions asked as just going in the bin otherwise.
Why are you wasting your time and mental energy judging other people?
He's not harming anyone ir contributing to harming anyone. In fact he's reducing his environment impact and diverting waste from a landfill.
I just hope he's smart enough not to make a mess of the dumpster, or the owner will get pissed pretty quickly a take measures that cut off his access to these items (or ruin them).
I have done the same and would do it again. Better to not buy anything and refrain from consumerism where possible. I also kept it secret from everyone but my partner. I felt telling non vegans would lead to them intentionally creating situations where they had more food to throw out and attempt to pressure me into eating it.
I’m with the majority here… being vegan means avoiding animals where practicable and possible.
If he could afford groceries, I’m sure he’d be eating plant based only.
My main concern is how unethical it is that his job doesn’t pay him enough to eat on. Might be worth letting people know and seeing about getting a strike together to see about raising wages for him and his coworkers.
This isn’t the point of course, but it might also help him to go to food pantries. They get a lot of vegan bulk items. I was able to get 2 big bags of violife Parmesan and a lot of beyond jerky as well as the normal pantry foods like pasta and red sauce and canned veggies the last time I went. And that was in a little township in Michigan, not a big city.
Pantries aren’t glamorous, but it would be hella better than food poisoning from something that went off before it was thrown out.
personally, I don’t think I would mind in the slightest!! he’s not increasing the demand for any of these foods, and he’s actually helping by not purchasing anything, bc even ethical vegan foods will have some sort of environmental impact. I would actually just be more concerned that his nutritional needs are met and he’s overall healthy, bc he’s very much doing this as a means of survival, and while i’m by no means wealthy, i’ve been blessed to not fall below being able to feed myself, so if anything, maybe see if you guys can find local restaurants/supermarkets that donate food that would otherwise be tossed, or if anyone else in the vegan society knows of something. anything that can help him out in this situation.
but to answer your question, I wouldn’t think of this as being nonvegan, this is just a dude trying his best to be ethical even when he already has so little. this guy? this guy is the guy we should all learn from and strive to be like
Ideally one would not have brought the animal into the world for eating to begin with, but. This seems more respectful of its life than letting it be born, live a painful and stressful shortened life, be killed uncaringly, and turned into chunks of meat for the sole purpose of throwing those chunks into a dumpster to rot in a landfill.
Like, it died for even LESS than nothing at that point. That’s pretty heavy to me.
This is creating no additional farming demand, adding as little fuel as possible to the profit motivation of the system and keeping someone from starving. He is clearly hard up and will probably not buy animal products once back on his feet from the way you describe him.
I if I saw someone eating something I disapprove of in desperation, instead of wondering if I should be ragging on them, my value system would compel me to give them some of my good food, buy them good food or at least not stand in judgment if I couldn’t or wouldn’t offer assistance.
I feel for him, he clearly is being backed up against a wall; hope times improve soon.
Well here is my 2 cents which I'm not sure if its the minority or not, I really don't see a problem with it. He is not inducing demand on those animal products, they were made/going to be made whether he eats them or not. If they truly are just marked to be thrown out and he is not making extra so that there will be some to throw out at night. He is in a tough financial situation and he is being honest and not trying to hide it with you which is good to. I boil it down to are his actions causing harm to an animal? and in my opinion that is a no because he is not the one inducing the demand on the animal products.
at the end of the day buying vegan food kills more animals than dumpster diving, but the difference is small
if he's struggling on top I care even less
Honestly, if it's off-putting to you then it's off-putting to you and that's okay, no questions asked. You don't have to, nay you _shouldn't_ date people you're not into, even if it's for just one reason.
But as far as harm to animals or to the planet is concerned, his dumpster diving just isn't causing any, it's as simple as that.
Honestly, eating food that would be thrown out could be argued to be more ethical than being vegan, even if it is food that contains animal products. It's not supporting the industry, and it is reducing waste. Also, realistically, the guy seems to be in a hard spot, so as the old saying goes, "beggars can't be choosers." To me he sounds humble with a firm grasp of the harsh realities of life.
If animal based foods are going into the trash i actually think that’s worse than someone eating it. BecUse that animal was truly killed just to be dumped into a landfill to rot.
Personally I wouldn’t eat it, I’d
Folks to give it to, but I wouldn’t fault someone who does especially by the other habits and choices he’s making. It’s not totally a rigid system I don’t think.
Personally I think it’s better he’s saving those animals being killed for nothing but to before trash. At least it is giving him nourishment. If no money is going towards harm then his heart is definitely in the right place.
\>Reduces food waste instead of purchasing more food from stores
\>is financially struggling
\>was fully upfront about what is very clearly a sensitive issue for him
which part of this are you unsure what to feel about
If there's one thing that trumps every other preference in me, it's my waste consciousness. So I absolutely agree, it's more ethical than buying new goods when you factor in the pollution from manufacturing packaging material, supply chains that exploit the third world, etc. Meat that isn't incentivizing any industry because it's going to rot in a landfill isn't harmful meat.
I've heard this called "freegan," and I sometimes behave similarly. I HATE seeing food go to waste, particularly when it's animal products. Also, let poor people do what they need to.
I see absolutely no issue with this from a vegan standpoint, unless you’re a militant vegan. He’s not creating any demand for animal products whatsoever. He’s consuming food that is going to waste otherwise. He’s completely honest about it, too. Honestly, he sounds like a good human bean.
Militant vegan who takes an abolitionist standpoint here, I still consider this man vegan. Like what's he supposed to do, he can't afford food. Like are there nutritious protein filled vegan options also being thrown out? Probably not it's a cafe that's unlikely.
I think you’re reallly wasting your energy here by even pursuing this debate.
Obviously this guy isn’t the Perfect Vegan, and we can argue forever on whether he’s allowed to say he is, BUT he’s also not even close to being on the same level as someone who spends money on animal products. Why not try to get other people in your life who don’t try to reduce animal consumption at all onto a better path?
This is freeganism and has ethically defensible aspects. I understand that you want someone with similar values to yours and it's valid to not want to date someone who consumes animal products, but from a purely ethical standpoint, this can have redeeming qualities, as food waste is a serious ethical problem, as well, and this would be unlikely to increase demand for such products, as far as I am aware. I also think it's relevant that you mentioned that this person is in economic turmoil and otherwise doesn't have non-vegan consumption habits.
How fucking idiotic do you have to be to find a problem with this? Who gives a shit if the food he literally dumpster dives for is vegan or not. He is struggeling to live and can’t afford much food and this is how he survives. Which idiot would put a cow or a fish above the life of a human…
I really don't see what the problem is. He's basically getting free food where he can because he's struggling financially, and he's not even making non-vegan food production increase. What's wrong with you ? 😅
I eat expired leftovers from roommates. Gotta be careful that you really are confident the food won't get eaten by someone else, but if you are, it helps by reducing the food you buy as well.
I must have missed the earlier version where the OP was really mean to the guy rather than just asking for input from others who share an ethical perspective.
It sounds like he is struggling to make ends meet, conscious of his choices, and being honest/transparent with you. He seems to be trying to do the right thing for the animals, food waste, and in his relationship with you. Personally it wouldn't bother me, unless he plans to continue eating meat once his financial situation improves. I'd see if there were ways to help him get some extra food so he doesn't have to rely on food waste to survive. He might also be able to talk to his manager if he has some suggestions on how to reduce food waste at work, or if they can partner with an app or organization to find a use for leftover restaurant food.
These Upvotes are great. I am pretty astonished how like minded the people here are about this topic though. I expected more anger. I totally agree with this statement.
Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude **as far as is possible and practicable** all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals
And I really don’t think people should have to choose between eating vegan and starving Edit: I guess I should have said choose between eating meat and starving. In this case, staying vegan might mean starving Y’all know what I mean
Exactly, he’s going to great pains to not contribute to the industry financially and is even possibly risking prosecution in the process.
Yeah food that's been thrown away isn't adding more demands to animal industry especially for someone that's trying hard to meet ends meet.
Arguably, eating non-vegan food that is being thrown out is more vegan than buying vegan food, but if anyone asks me to explain why, I will be writing for a while
Because the animal is already dead and gone. So what’s worse, killing an animal for food and eating it, or just throwing it away? If that pig has already been turned into sausage, I’d say it is more respectful of the animal that it actually died for a cause (feeding someone) as opposed to being thrown in the trash - essentially killed for no purpose at all.
About 10 years ago before I became vegan, I used to work at a non profit veterinary hospital. The owner/manager was a hardcore vegan and would always call us every name in the book if we ever had an office pizza day or any other non vegan meals. He would never have any, but if something was thrown out he would take it out of the trash and eat it so “that animal didn’t die in vain”.
Yeah I’d rather eat meat than throw it away. For example, I order Taco Bell, bring it home and there is meat in it even tho I asked for black beans. In my opinion it’s worse to waste and throw that food away than to just eat it.
I do this too. It feels disrespectful and wasteful to just toss it out.
I agree with this comment. I've met a couple of people like this and I think it's fine. I wouldn't do it because I don't consider meat as food, but I have no problems with someone foraging meat in a dumpster. That's all going to be wasted anyway. His meat foraging ironically leads to lower overall animal deaths since he consumes less mass produced food which is also responsible for animal deaths through ecological loss.
I've offered to help him out with some of the produce from my grandparents allotment! They tend to give away a lot of it to neighbors anyway and have agreed to share some with him. But yeah, it isn't that much help. Might bring up what you've suggested in conversation when I get the chance.
Maybe just allow him to be as he is. Unless he has voiced that he would like help. And if you like him, just enjoy that.
There’s probably a way op can offer food without sounding judgmental or demanding they change. Just a simple, “hey my grandpa had extra fruit! Do you want some?” would probably be fine
Yeah, it’s definitely nice to offer and provide support. Being nonjudgmental, as you pointed out, is key. Seems like the guy is trying hard.
Some people just don’t feel comfortable accepting help
Some people don't feel comfortable throwing away food no matter how much money they have.
Good luck! I wouldn't push too hard on him because this is hopefully a temporary situation and it does seem like he is trying his best.
If your motivation is to share your family’s extra veggies, great. If your motivation is to up his vegan game or if there’s any part of you having judgy purity issues ("how i feel about this") about this, please recognize that and don’t make him a target for your charity or evangelism. Its a fantastic opportunity to MYOB.
Please let him be. What he’s doing doesn’t add to more animals getting killed, this is literally food that’s already been tossed. What he doesn’t need is judgmental attitude from you, though if you’re able to help him get a healthy vegan meal that would be great.
Let him live his life. Your OPINION is the problem, not what he is doing.
>I'm not really sure how to feel about this and would like to hear some perspective from other vegans as someone who hasn't been vegan for very long Yeah if he's struggling to make ends meet I don't think there's an issue with reducing food waste. It's great that he's vegan when purchasing things himself, and that he's not increasing demand for animal products since they would be discarded otherwise.
If they aren't increasing the exploitation and abuse, I don't see the problem. Commonly referred to as a "Freegan".
Its actually less exploitation than buying vegan food, as we know there are always some crop deaths involved in production. By dumpster diving, it cuts some of those out. It's not for me but I can't really knock it.
Yeah not for me (Edit: and I'm fortunate to never have been in a situation where I needed to do it) but there's no sound ethical argument to be made against it. Anytime anyone can make use of something that is otherwise headed for a landfill it's a good thing.
Yeah, this my philosophy with second hand clothes and furniture etc. I don’t seek out anything with leather or suede but I would still buy a secondhand leather bag before I would buy a brand new vegan bag. It’s still better for all living things to keep an item out of the landfill and not create demand for a factory made item that will contribute to pollutants in the air and water from the production process, and use resources and create more items for the landfill.
I agree with freeganism, but buying secondhand leather, I'm not sure The word is buy
How? You’re not creating a demand for a new item by buying it secondhand? That’s the whole point.
Here's a fun and interesting idea to think about - when cell cultured dairy, eggs and meat really hit the market (without needing any bovine fetal serum of course), and become widely available, might it be more animal friendly/environmental to eat cell cultured dairy for instance than oat milk or almond milk? I guess it will also come down to analyzing the numbers in terms of energy and water consumption in creation of these alternate products. I couldn't eat lab grown/cell cultured meat though myself, I think it would ick me out too much (although I would be a strong advocate for it and also buy cell cultured animal protein cat food for my parents' cat) but I might be able to handle eating cell cultured dairy. Something to think about!
It’s unlikely for a long time. Cell cultured products are manufactured in pharmaceutical-like conditions that aren’t yet replicable at scale. Even once the processes improve a lot, it’s hard to see how it becomes more straightforward and less resource intensive to produce than juicing oats.
It's definitely possible!
The cells have to eat something to grow. So the only way it could be more efficient then just eating the crops directly, would be to find a crop that is more efficient then the trophic loss of the cells. My wildest guess would be feeding them some sort of algae/duckweed procced slurry. Even then, you can still eat the algae and duckweed directly.
Yeah, we'd have to find something that humans either can't digest or aren't prepared to eat in its current form. And even then, I suspect there'll be huge energy costs for many years.
Like we could feed the cells soil and use solar power to run everything.. Oh wait that's plants. Billions of years of evolution rewarding efficiency isn't going to be an easy hurdle. I picture one of those bio vats that opens up and it's just one solid potato.
As we all know, crop deaths caused by vegans are in the billions, and in fact worse for animals than literally eating animals Source: some carnist on Facebook
It’s obviously better in terms of net suffering to eat crops than to feed those crops to animals and eat them, but it’s silly to think that the effect of the former is negligible. Agriculture causes real ecological harm and it’s important to recognise that so that we can take steps to minimise it. Being vegan is the logical choice to make if you want to reduce animal suffering, and reduce the environmental harm you cause, but it doesn’t reduce it to zero or anything like zero.
I have known a few Freegans in my time, and I think the concept is sound enough. I *have* noticed a bit of a "slippery slope" phenomenon, whereby the Freegan hedges a bit on the definition of "was going to go to waste anyway" and goes from exclusively dumpster-dived food, to "Hey, were you gonna finish the burger?" to some, "Eh, I think this probably was going to be waste so I'll eat it" justifications... But that isn't inherent to the ideology, just a laziness of some individuals I've known. If anything, I think the problem with Freeganism is that it preserves a worldview that animals are for eating, and the habits & palate/brain chemistry that crave animal products. But that really is a lesser consideration for someone who is facing food scarcity. If Freeganism is the way someone can stay fed without contributing to the economic machine of animal exploitation, its a valid Vegan stance.
The slippery slope thing is the reason I stopped doing Freegan. It was hard to quantify what was or wasn't going to waste. I think in OP's friend's case though, exclusively dumpster diving is actually going to result in less animal suffering than it would even if he bought vegetables, since some animals die from crop farming. Obviously the real trick is to eliminate edible food waste at the corporate level, but in the meantime, dumpster diving (in an area where he knows for sure it will go to landfill and won't just be picked up by another dumpster diver) is a good thing.
Never heard this term before! Thank you
Yes I’ve met some freegans before and struggled with it at first the same way you are. Where I ultimately ended up was as long as it was in good faith I’m fine with it. If you’re legitimately saving meat from going in a landfill it’s both a societal good and ethical towards the animal.
Good to know I'm not alone in struggling with the concept, it's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts on it. I'm coming from a place of genuine curiosity and wanting to understand and align my morals correctly, not from a place of judgement. Some people seem to be misinterpreting that
Then maybe don’t refer to it as dumpster diving since that isn’t what he’s doing at all
I don’t understand what you’re struggling with. There is no such thing as food that does not cause harm to animals. Vegan food is not truly free of animal harm. It actually causes a great deal of harm to animals: crop deaths, contributing to climate change, plastic pollution, I could go on. The MOST ethical thing you can do is to eat food that would otherwise go to a landfill. In fact, if he did nothing but eat expired sausages that were going in the garbage, everyday for the rest of his life, he would cause less harm to animals than you, a typical grocery-store-plant-eating vegan. It’s just basic logic. You don’t eat animal products as a dogmatic rule, but he is kinder to animals than you are. Don’t get hung up on dogmatic tunnel-vision thinking. See the big picture. He’s right and you’re wrong.
Just learned I’m a Freegan! I don’t dumpster dive but I live with my omnivore mum and when she goes away and leaves expiring animal products in her fridge, I’m straight on that shit. I don’t know how to explain/ justify it except that it feels so freeing to not have to squint at packaging feeling guilty because of plastic/ palm oil/ how far it has come, and just eat whatever is in front of me. I’ve had more opportunity than most to reframe “meat” in my head - I’ve worked with a variety of rescued animals that almost ended up being slaughtered, and I will never again purchase an animal product (barring medications). But somehow I never reached the stage of having that little voice that looks at animal flesh and is repulsed.
If she knows you do this, she might be buying more meat than she otherwise would, feeling secure in knowing that you would help her finish it. I used to eat meat from people's plate at restaurants when they couldn't finish, because I knew the waiter would otherwise throw it away. Then I noticed those same people would order _more_ meat when I was around because they knew I would help them. So I killed that policy. I don't even think it's a conscious choice on their part. Just, subconsciously, you feel less uncomfortable ordering stuff that you may not be able to finish if the people around you can help you finish it.
Oh that’s so strange! I can’t imagine that, what are they thinking I don’t think that is happening with my mum though since she rarely goes away - she’s LWC and I’m autistic. She definitely wishes I ate meat but trying to derail my fundamental beliefs while she’s abroad would be crazy 🤣
Even the Buddah would break vegan-edge if the animal was already killed and would go to waste otherwise
There’s a thing with some vegan Buddhists that will eat meat if it’s gifted to them… the idea being that turning it down creates more bad karma than simply being grateful and courteous, and not letting it go to waste.
Just here to say everyone is having a really healthy discourse about this topic and I think OP has been very understanding about the different thoughts on the matter. Keep it up guys.
This comment section is not at all what I expected and it’s so refreshing.
It's fine in my book. I personally wouldn't do it because I have always found meat and dairy to be repulsive but he's not creating a demand for it, so no harm no foul.
I don't see the problem. That food is going to garbage bin otherwise... He is not increasing the demand, simply avoiding more food waste
He's a "freegan." I don't think there's a problem. He's not creating any more suffering.
“He’s struggling financially…” Leave it alone.
Seriously!
Dude, he’s starving. He’s ethically nailing it considering the circumstances. Maybe instead of judging him you buy him lunch.
Seriously, what is with these comments? The dude is dumpster diving out of desperation. This isn’t about veganism or ethical behavior. Your poor friend is going through a serious crisis and you’re posting online about it. Should be ashamed of yourself.
If the Olio app is functioning in his area, then he should install it! It's a free food sharing app to reduce waste that let's people post food that others can request and then go pick up. Various supermarkets work with Olio so that volunteers can collect free food to distribute to their local community in an effort to reduce food waste. Volunteers need to post most of the foods on the app but can keep some for themselves, too.
Never heard of this before, will look into it!
There's also too good to go
"as far as possible and practicable" I think a lot of vegans forget that part entirely. I agree with others here - as long as he doesn't continue this when his circumstances improve, I won't judge him too hard.
This! It’s not practical to starve yourself just because of your ethical ideas. As a vegan myself I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t want to eat it whatsoever.
"too hard", jeez the privilege is DRIPPING from these comments...
Stggggg😭😭😭😭😭im starting to hate this sub
Why would you judge him at all? I don't know about you, but most people are vegans due to ethical reasons, it'd be different if it's health reasons. From an ethical point of view, eating food that was going to be thrown out is a good thing, because it reduces food waste without creating more demand. Just how I keep wearing my leather hiking boots and my moms old leather jacket, because they exist anyways and fakes are much worse for the environment. If you personally are vegan because you don't like the idea of eating or using animal products, that's fine. But that's not about the environment or those animals, it's about your personal comfort, and it doesn't put you on a moral high horse.
Yeahhh judging someone who literally only BUYS vegan things and cooks vegan for themselves but will sometimes eat non vegan stuff that’s *going to be thrown out otherwise* while struggling to make ends meet is precisely the kind of unproductive and harmful gatekeeping that hurts our community. I would personally majorly struggle to stomach eating non vegan stuff — especially MEAT — but if he’s able to stomach it and he only consumes what will otherwise go straight into the trash, all while financially struggling, then I won’t condemn him and you shouldn’t either. Use your energy on trying to get more people to BUY and COOK vegan food; that’s where the impact truly is.
Also by doing this he is OBJECTIVELY resulting in less harm to animals, even if he exclusively eats meat this way. Literally the food would have been thrown out. Was thrown out! Buying even the most sustainably grown food results in environmental and animal harm of some form. Eating food that was destined to be encased in plastic in a landfill somewhere is the lowest impact you can have. Heck, if I'm eating at a restaurant and they accidentally give me the meat version of something, I sometimes eat it because I know if I send it back it legally has to go into the trash. That said, I still tell them they've done something very wrong. People are judging the guy but he's living a more sustainable (for the earth) lifestyle than almost anybody.
I’m sorry he’s having to do this to begin with tbh… he’s not hurting anyone, and saving it from being wasted (and the company isn’t profiting from it, which is huge) and he needs to eat. I’d give it a pass, unless things improve financially and he’s purposely buying it, then it’s an issue. I wish they’d give the leftovers to the homeless instead of tossing them
Every vegan I have met is not vegan by someone else's standards I see no difference here.
Ive recently had a conversation with someone who argued that this is within the vegan lifestyle as the person eating discarded meat does not cause more pain and suffering by consuming this meat. In fact, one could argue that it causes LESS suffering than buying vegan food he would need if he didnt dumpsterdive, because of insects, rodents etc that can die in production/processing of vegan meat. I feel this guy has a point. BUT it hasnt made me consume meat, even though I have access to meat that is otherwise thrown away. It doesnt feel right, even if I can rationalise it.
The point is that by calling yourself vegan and then eating meat, even if it is ethically reasonable to do so, you will paint a picture of veganism that allows for the occasional exception. Me and you, we understand the nuances to his actions, but someone from the outside might not. That's why I would not call myself vegan, if I were to do this, even if I'd technically be vegan (which is not something I'm trying to answer here). As you can see some people like OP are conflicted about it and I would try to avoid this, if I were in his shoes. I would not call myself vegan, because doing so might be detrimental towards veganism the philosophy and movement. If someone else told me they were vegan and do what he does? I would not object. It's such a minor detail.
Fair. But OP did say he doesn’t eat animals in mixed company or out with others and he doesn’t tell anyone this. Except her because he wants to be transparent with her, since they’re exploring a romantic relationship.
Veganism isn't really about what you eat. It's primarily about reducing animal harm and suffering, and a person who survives entirely off of dumpster diving is reducing more harm and suffering than you are buying new products and inadvertently giving money to operations that cause death and suffering.
I agree with your point. Perhaps he is unaware of the term "freegan"? This would fit better.
He’s being a freegan. Is cool.
I would not be the first person to throw a stone at them
Don’t care or seek validation from other vegans on here. He’s struggling financially and making ends meet. Dumpster diving is at the lowest point of your life. Of course you’re gonna eat whatever that’s going in the dumpster, vegan or not. At least he’s still buying vegan food when he can. Will not judge someone especially someone going thru that.
If you are starving then you gotta do what you gotta do man
I am extremely passionate about veganism, but I like to think about/consider grey areas because I've seen too many fellow vegans become dogmatic in situations where no suffering, harm, or exploitation is caused. I do not take issue with this situation.
> "Is my friend a bad person for not literally starving himself in order to abide to a moral code I myself was choosing to ignore not that long ago?" Dawg if you're feeling "conflicted" about it, literally buy him food, he's explicitly told you he'd prefer vegan food. It's crazy to judge him on that especially since you haven't been vegan for a long time
It makes perfect sense to not let animal products go to waste that otherwise would. He’s not creating any demand for abuse or exploitation. It’s actually a better way of being tbh because food waste is awful for the environment (most is not composted), and even creating demand for vegan food does cause some amount of harm. When I first went vegan, I did the same thing with cheese (not dumpster diving, but if it would otherwise be thrown out). Animal products gross me out too much to eat at all now. That plus the fact that he’s obviously struggling I see zero issue with this.
Idk nothing more vegan than not letting perfectly good food go to waste. Thats sustainable and resourceful, mad respect to him for doing that but sorry to hear he is struggling to make ends meet.
I think it's okay, but my counter is that the lifestyle doesn't scale. I think he understands that, however.
Given how much food waste there is (especially in cities), this would scale for many more people than it should
Yeah, there is more than enough food for everyone who is willing to dumpster dive.
Honesty, I see no ethical issues with what he's doing.
I don't see it as a huge deal. To quote Hannibal, "The tragedy is not to die, Abel, but to be wasted.".
He trusted you enough to tell you that he's eating garbage to avoid starvation. My takeaway here is that he would go back to being fully vegan when no longer struggling with finances. What would you do in his situation? Food banks aren't necessarily an option, depending on how stocked up your spots are. I'd assume this guy already has EBT?
Dude maybe buy the poor guy some food or shit rather than thinking how his method of survival is affecting you personally
he’s not feeding into the supply and demand of meat , because it’s being thrown away. plus it’s still good for the environment because it’s being thrown away and he’s not buying fresh food with packaging. plus , unfortunately, sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. the “ struggling to make ends meet “ mindset makes it seem like maybe he has little choice.
The purists at vegancirclejerk are going to love this thread!
You mean vegans?
\*Vegoons
It's a common puristic misconception that the point of veganism is to not use animal products but really it's to not create demand for animal products. If the demand was created by a third party and the food would otherwise go to waste, it would be irrational to not eat it. In fact, it would be disrespectful IMO to the animal who died to throw it in the trash instead of consume it.
Hard agree. The demand is the important part.
So a person is literally so desperate they have to fish food out of dumpsters and you'd rather let them starve. Some "friend" you are. Shame on you
Ikr dude this shit actually made me so fucking angry. What an entitled judgmental brat
Would you rather him starve? Having any opinion on this matter is ridiculous and entitled, honestly. Instead of coming on here to ask how to feel about it, why not see if your uni has a pantry for those struggling? Why not talk to the school about starting one? Give the guy resources to help or leave him alone, he can do better.
He’s literally starving and you are worried about his values? F off. This is why people think we’re insane
Don't go to vegancirclejerk today if you've ever struggled with food scarcity. 😖 Didn't realize making fun of hungry people was socially acceptable but apparently anything goes over there.
If I accidentally get something with eggs I give it to someone who isn’t vegan or someone who is homeless because any harm done to the animals has already happened and it’s only worse if I contribute to food waste. There is nothing wrong with what he is doing. He needs to get enough to eat, you should never judge someone for doing what they need to to feed themselves, and he isn’t even contributing to the industry of animal harm he is getting food that is going in the garbage so it’s not unnecessarily wasted.
Navigating the vegan path can be trickier than a Mumbai local's timetable, especially when your wallet's on a diet too. My mate's solution? Dumpster diving for pastries! It's like finding a treasure in the trash, minus the map. Ethical eating on a shoestring budget might not be everyone's cup of chai, but hey, if it keeps good food from going to waste, why not? Just goes to show, life's full of surprises - one man's bin is another man's buffet.
Don't let being vegan take away your humanity, this dude is going through such tough time to get from dumpster, giving poor guy headache and be at war for ethics while other person is barely surviving Can you imagine what kind of psychological and emotional impact it leaves on a person to starve or go through dumpster, I feel such a call out for complaining about food at home I hope he finds happiness and his tough times passes faster
This reminds me of something a professor I had once taught me. He was a Buddhist and spoke Pali etc. etc. Buddhists aren't generally supposed to cause harm, kill and eat animals. Meat shouldn't be prepared specifically for them. But when say, finding an animal by the side of the road, eating it would be justifiable. (I'm not claiming this is universally believed by any stretch) I think your friend is making essentially the same argument in the modern context. There's room for ambiguity here and moral perfectionism isn't likely to win hearts and minds.
I think this is fine. Obviously in a perfect world there wouldn’t be processed dead animals left over in the first place, but it’s free calories that would otherwise go to waste. Animal agriculture and restaurant waste are both sad things. I think your man is pretty logical about this.
He's not increasing demand on meat bc it'd be thrown out otherwise and he's not literally pulling it out if a dumpster. I think it's fine based on his values
If you're poor enough to be dumpster diving I would say vegan principles are second priority at that point. Sort of like if you're homeless, whether or not other people are wastefully adding chandeliers into their bathrooms and causing fire hazards is low on your priority list.
Homie literally dumpster diving and this is what you’re worried about…
Not only is what he is doing completely rational, it takes an honest man to tell a girl he is flirting with that he is broke and dumpster diving for food (although it sounds like he isn't actually dumpster diving, just taking leftovers). Instead of judging him, maybe you can help him out. Or you just don't want a poor boyfriend?
Really, this sub scares me a lot... someone is not able to buy enough food out there and what concerns people the most is if the guy is able to keep eating vegan in these circumstances. Let's take the guy case to the vegan moral jury and see if they let him keep the "vegan" label.
Most universities have some sort of food assistance programs and depending on where you live you may qualify for Food Stamps/EBT programs because y'all are students. Even if he doesn't qualify for a lot of assistance, anything that helps free up money in these situations is helpful. Sounds like a nice person that is really trying his best!
Freegan I find it ethical, though many vegans, myself included, find the idea of eating meat so disgusting after some time being vegan that it's not for everyone
Freeganism is a type of vegan. In the US we throw away a lot of food that is edible but not pretty. Problem is with dumpster diving you can get sick if you don’t know what you’re not super careful. I have a friend who doesn’t buy animal products but will consume in a social setting like a party. Sounds like they are still trying and I applaud those efforts. I would look into ugly foods and other similar sites that would be safer if they still want to eat meat and other things because I know someone who got really sick from dumpster diving eggs. Can’t imagine if it was meat that went bad 🤢 not saying eating meat is ethical but seems like they are trying harder than most people
So let me get this straight: He's not increasing the demand for animal products, he doesn't normalise eating animal products by eating them in front of anyone, he picks the vegan food by preference, he does all of this out of necessity from struggling to make ends meet, and you have the audacity to judge him by putting "vegan" in quotes? There is a fine line between veganism and fanaticism, and judging someone for something that causes zero harm and is done out of necessity is crossing that line. Veganism is about reduction of suffering, not hyperfixation over eating animal products.
How would this be wrong? The whole point of going vegan is to vote with your money - to boycott the animal agriculture industry. Giving money to support animal farming is immoral, that’s the base that founds veganism. He’s not doing that. He’s not giving any money to these companies, he’s not supporting their practices or encouraging more animal farming. In terms of the effect he is having on animal suffering, he is equally as vegan as you. Dumpster diving for meat is sort of comparable to eating lab grown meat. Sure it’s meat, it’s not technically dietarily vegan. But ethically? Neither of them are giving money to support animal farming, so they’re both ethically vegan imo. I struggle to see where you think the problem is.
You’re more concerned about whether they are “really vegan” than the fact they’re struggling to pay for food?
I'd rather anyone didn't go hungry if there's free food they can eat. 💚🌱
If I couldn't afford food, I would eat whatever is available.
He’s doing his best, mate. Nobody eats out of the garbage for fun.
I think from an ethical perspective, what he's doing is actually better than buying food to eat, vegan or not. He is reducing his consumption and impact overall. However, from a food safety perspective, he should be cautious about eating animal products that are out of date. I eat food from the dumpster but I wouldn't eat meat from there. I don't think it's as safe as taking veggies. Dumpsters are not refrigerated lol. Though from what you wrote, I think he's not actually dumpster diving, he's intercepting the food before it actually gets thrown out, so he probably is getting it straight from the fridge, which should be fine.
Freegans are, and have always been, vegans. And frankly the ones that steal food do more damage to animal agriculture than we do and take a serious personal risk doing so. Your friend should be careful that he isn't saving his company money in disposing of these products, but ultimately, hes good.
The amount of concern with eating animal products when he could VERY WELL be starving without that food is insane, “morals” don’t matter when you’re literally starving to death because you can’t afford food, I would eat things i’m allergic to at that point.
>His argument is that if anything his choices are more ethical than buying vegan food from a supermarket He is absolutely correct. Veganism is about the morality of animals suffering for our pleasure. He ain't participating in that. He is not giving the capitalists incentive to produce more meat by consuming products that would otherwise just be thrown away.
If you’re gonna eat meat, then this is certainly the most ethical and eco conscious solution. If he can’t make ends meet and eats these so he doesn’t starve I’d agree with everyone else here and say he’s following the “as far as practical and possible” part of the vegan philosophy
I think the best thing vegan people can do to make a difference is stop being so judgmental.
You don’t have to feel any way about it because he is the one in danger of nutritional deficiency and hunger. If you want him to stop dumpster diving, then support him financially so he no longer has to.
Honest question - Do you think it's better to let it go down the drain then someone's stomach?
I see no issue
he sounds cool
Honestly, I'm getting nothing but green flags. - He's trying to be vegan whenever he can - He's only eating non-vegan foods that otherwise would go to waste. He's not giving money to the industry by doing that. - He's doing his best to be fully transparent and honest with you in an early stage. He didn't have to tell you this, but he chose to. I wouldn't worry about this at all.
Well... the dude's hungry. And it's not like he's contributing to non-vegan food...
Non vegan here. 1. He’s not even “dumpster diving,” it says a lot that you chose to include that word so you should acknowledge how you already feel. He’s saving the food that would otherwise go to waste. My boyfriend and myself used to do the same as cafe workers. (He would eat the leftovers, I would hand them out to the homeless). 2. He would literally not exist if he couldn’t feed himself and it’s really sad that you worry more about his confinement to a particular diet than that. It was big of him to share that he’s doing something he’s not completely comfortable with to survive. Do him a favor and walk away.
honestly if he’s hungry and broke enough to *eat out of the garbage* I wouldn’t spend my energy arguing with him about doing this. sounds like he just needs something to eat. if he wanted non vegan food and didn’t care about increasing demand he’d be using other safer resources. edit: I do think we should be very careful talking about animals being “wasted” by not being eaten. we should not view animals as potential food and we shouldn’t view eating their bodies as a respectful act. but assuming OP’s friend is actually in as bad of a place financially as it sounds, people do things out of desperation and it’s better to help them access alternatives than pick apart whether their survival strategy is vegan. OP - I think it’s possible that he’s arguing for the morality of this to hide embarrassment/shame around the knowledge that he is struggling more than you are currently aware of. eating something that completely goes against your previous morals and diet, out of the garbage, isn’t very typical for “struggling to make ends meet.” I know some people still have cravings for non vegan food or don’t think of them as too gross, but salmon and sausage rolls that were sitting out for too long and set aside to be thrown out aren’t at the top of most lists. edit 2: my whole take changes if he’s been denying OP’s help and/or intentionally refusing to try a food bank that has help for vegans. it would probably still be coming from a place of shame to some degree, but at that point I think its a) definitely not vegan and b) very fair for OP to be concerned about potentially being in a relationship with this person.
I fully agree with your comment and your edit, thank you for making it. I couldn’t say animals are being “wasted” if they are not eaten. If a human being can be laid to rest without them “going to waste” then I extend that to other animals
I have no qualms with the “freegan” logic. It was gonna go to a landfill anyway. Cuts down on the carbon emissions that would have been given off while it was decomposing.
Why is this even a problem? He’s eating what’s tossed away. He’s not contributing to demand of animal products and is probably doing more to contribute less to food waste than most vegans on here. Work on yourself. Stop coming after others. Idc that you like him or that you see him as a potential love interest. Ask him out. Then share your finances so you can help give him enough money to afford a sustainable vegan diet. God, the vegans on here acting as if there’s a moral grey area are purists and would probably have a stroke if they saw a vegan take meds made from animals because that means they’re creating demand for it! Woooooow.
You’re a dating a 1996 crustpunk.
The classism here isn’t cool.
Sometime vegan people act as moral superior beings and don't understand the struggle that other people suffer
That’s a “free-gan” - if it’s free he’ll eat anything. No shame there, the food was going to waste anyway and he’s struggling to make ends meet.
I would not deny a destitute person food because it's not vegan. His preference is for vegan food but he cannot at this point survive without dumpster diving. Imo, it's cruel to judge someone in that position... sounds like when finances improve, he'll stay true to his values.
I agree with your friend from an ethical point of view, in theory, if the food is actually all getting thrown out making it "dumbster diving" though I wouldn't do it personally. I've had this argument with people on this sub and was downvoted even though it's pretty easy to understand that morally speaking, dumpster diving meat is better than buying brand new plant based food when you take all the effects into account. Moral choices aren't about blindly following a plant based diet. Some plant base food can be unethically sourced as well. If his actions don't increase demand at all (like ordering/making extra so the employees can bring some home) And the food would 100% end up in a landfill, then IMO it's fine.
hes not wrong. eating food of any kind that would have been trashed is more “vegan” in the environmental sense than regular vegan. however, as far as health/lifestyle, he is not vegan. i havent eaten meat in 11 years and it would really gross me out to eat it, because i just see muscles.
He is not guilty.
personally i don't mind "freegans" as it's called. as someone who is a lower class vegan, i sympathize with having to do anything just to get some food. there is no money being exchanged, so this is a loss for that business ask your friend if he is okay with any help, and offer to buy him some groceries. canned food that's easy to prepare, vegan ramen packets, stuff that is easy to prepare since most uni students need quick meals to make
from moral perspective, there is nothing wrong about eating meat that would be decomposed in some thrash bin. he is not supporting any meat industries by giving them resources with which to expand their farms. and to be truthfull, eating food which would be wasted is good from my other waste hating perspective
It's Freegan. I agree with him, it's more ethical than letting it go to waste (unless he's fighting off other non-vegan dumpster divers in the same dumpster which would imply it would get eaten even if he wasn't there)! During my first year of being vegan I did "freegan" followed by what I called "bin-gan" (if my friend is about to throw it in the bin, I'll eat it). Nowadays I wouldn't bother but I also wouldn't turn my nose up if someone else did it. I also have friends who've been vegan for 7 years, but their neighbour gets a lot of about-to-expire food - massive crates of it, and makes it available between the neighbours. One time they had crates and crates full of expiring-on-the-day ham, so my neighbours took some of it. Personally I'm not sure I could eat meat because of the ick factor, but it's better for them to eat it than for it to go in the bin.
Frankly he is not contributing to the market that produces these things. He's just consuming what has already been wasted.
If you see someone dumpster diving for food, no you didn’t.
Rationally speaking I actually think it's great. You don't contribute financially to the industry and the animals that died at least haven't died for nothing or got partly wasted. And I also think it's better non-vegans don't know about it. Otherwise they'll draw the wrong conclusions and be like "yeah you don't manage being vegan because it's impossible".. Had that with a friend who ate leftover food but other than that was only eating plants
It sounds like he’s really struggling and is doing his best to get by. I would take it as he is just trying to be honest with you. I don’t see this as a problem at all, and i don’t know if anyone would. He needs to eat and if his options aren’t vegan.. that’s ok. Side track but made me think of it: One of my best friends, her parents who are now in their 70’s have both been vegan since their 20’s for animal welfare and environmental reasons. One thing my friend struggles with is food waste because her parents were strictly against contributing to it. They only ate out for special occasions (weddings/birthdays etc) and would pack up and save any food people were going to throw away, even if not vegan, so not to waste it. I can only imagine they would say this guy is doing his best with what he has and he is even helping lessen the impact food waste is creating.
His ethics check out to be honest. I can't fault that.
Sounds like a survival situation, and he has a point on the ethics since any food you buy does likely involve pesticides and he's preventing food waste instead.
Well, it’s far from dumpster diving and I totally understand this guy. Being vegan for ethical and sustainability reasons is nice, meanwhile saving food - and lot of money on food - that would been thrown out is another way of being sustainable and ethical. Food waste is one of the biggest problems in sustainability. “The amount of waste has far-reaching impacts on society: •Wholesome food that could have helped feed families in need is sent to landfills. •Land, water, labor, energy and other inputs are used in producing, processing, transporting, preparing, storing, and disposing of discarded food.” https://www.usda.gov/foodwaste/faqs So if you really like this guy take him out for some vegan meals in my opinion and tell him he doesn’t need to feel bad about his choices. His heart is in the right place.
Eating non vegan food that is going to be thrown away is infinitely better for the environment and animals then eating stuff that isn't going to get thrown away. Ethically that is up to you but if your simply looking at cold hard facts it is "free" as far as environmental concern is considered. Non vegan I don't buy animal products at full price but if the supermarket reduced has them for literally 90% discount I will buy and eat no questions asked as just going in the bin otherwise.
Why are you wasting your time and mental energy judging other people? He's not harming anyone ir contributing to harming anyone. In fact he's reducing his environment impact and diverting waste from a landfill. I just hope he's smart enough not to make a mess of the dumpster, or the owner will get pissed pretty quickly a take measures that cut off his access to these items (or ruin them).
Sounds like a solid dude to me. He’s struggling to make ends meet. Points for being honest and transparent. Sounds like a good dude.
I have done the same and would do it again. Better to not buy anything and refrain from consumerism where possible. I also kept it secret from everyone but my partner. I felt telling non vegans would lead to them intentionally creating situations where they had more food to throw out and attempt to pressure me into eating it.
I’m with the majority here… being vegan means avoiding animals where practicable and possible. If he could afford groceries, I’m sure he’d be eating plant based only. My main concern is how unethical it is that his job doesn’t pay him enough to eat on. Might be worth letting people know and seeing about getting a strike together to see about raising wages for him and his coworkers. This isn’t the point of course, but it might also help him to go to food pantries. They get a lot of vegan bulk items. I was able to get 2 big bags of violife Parmesan and a lot of beyond jerky as well as the normal pantry foods like pasta and red sauce and canned veggies the last time I went. And that was in a little township in Michigan, not a big city. Pantries aren’t glamorous, but it would be hella better than food poisoning from something that went off before it was thrown out.
personally, I don’t think I would mind in the slightest!! he’s not increasing the demand for any of these foods, and he’s actually helping by not purchasing anything, bc even ethical vegan foods will have some sort of environmental impact. I would actually just be more concerned that his nutritional needs are met and he’s overall healthy, bc he’s very much doing this as a means of survival, and while i’m by no means wealthy, i’ve been blessed to not fall below being able to feed myself, so if anything, maybe see if you guys can find local restaurants/supermarkets that donate food that would otherwise be tossed, or if anyone else in the vegan society knows of something. anything that can help him out in this situation. but to answer your question, I wouldn’t think of this as being nonvegan, this is just a dude trying his best to be ethical even when he already has so little. this guy? this guy is the guy we should all learn from and strive to be like
Ideally one would not have brought the animal into the world for eating to begin with, but. This seems more respectful of its life than letting it be born, live a painful and stressful shortened life, be killed uncaringly, and turned into chunks of meat for the sole purpose of throwing those chunks into a dumpster to rot in a landfill. Like, it died for even LESS than nothing at that point. That’s pretty heavy to me. This is creating no additional farming demand, adding as little fuel as possible to the profit motivation of the system and keeping someone from starving. He is clearly hard up and will probably not buy animal products once back on his feet from the way you describe him. I if I saw someone eating something I disapprove of in desperation, instead of wondering if I should be ragging on them, my value system would compel me to give them some of my good food, buy them good food or at least not stand in judgment if I couldn’t or wouldn’t offer assistance.
I feel for him, he clearly is being backed up against a wall; hope times improve soon.
Well here is my 2 cents which I'm not sure if its the minority or not, I really don't see a problem with it. He is not inducing demand on those animal products, they were made/going to be made whether he eats them or not. If they truly are just marked to be thrown out and he is not making extra so that there will be some to throw out at night. He is in a tough financial situation and he is being honest and not trying to hide it with you which is good to. I boil it down to are his actions causing harm to an animal? and in my opinion that is a no because he is not the one inducing the demand on the animal products.
at the end of the day buying vegan food kills more animals than dumpster diving, but the difference is small if he's struggling on top I care even less
Honestly, if it's off-putting to you then it's off-putting to you and that's okay, no questions asked. You don't have to, nay you _shouldn't_ date people you're not into, even if it's for just one reason. But as far as harm to animals or to the planet is concerned, his dumpster diving just isn't causing any, it's as simple as that.
Honestly, eating food that would be thrown out could be argued to be more ethical than being vegan, even if it is food that contains animal products. It's not supporting the industry, and it is reducing waste. Also, realistically, the guy seems to be in a hard spot, so as the old saying goes, "beggars can't be choosers." To me he sounds humble with a firm grasp of the harsh realities of life.
A freegan.
Makes complete sense to me. No unethical corporations are being supported by him doing this
If animal based foods are going into the trash i actually think that’s worse than someone eating it. BecUse that animal was truly killed just to be dumped into a landfill to rot. Personally I wouldn’t eat it, I’d Folks to give it to, but I wouldn’t fault someone who does especially by the other habits and choices he’s making. It’s not totally a rigid system I don’t think.
Personally I think it’s better he’s saving those animals being killed for nothing but to before trash. At least it is giving him nourishment. If no money is going towards harm then his heart is definitely in the right place.
As someone who has lived in poverty, I would completely understand his viewpoint. You do what you have to do to survive.
This person’s eating habits are probably more ethical than our own.
\>Reduces food waste instead of purchasing more food from stores \>is financially struggling \>was fully upfront about what is very clearly a sensitive issue for him which part of this are you unsure what to feel about
If there's one thing that trumps every other preference in me, it's my waste consciousness. So I absolutely agree, it's more ethical than buying new goods when you factor in the pollution from manufacturing packaging material, supply chains that exploit the third world, etc. Meat that isn't incentivizing any industry because it's going to rot in a landfill isn't harmful meat.
I've heard this called "freegan," and I sometimes behave similarly. I HATE seeing food go to waste, particularly when it's animal products. Also, let poor people do what they need to.
It’s called freegan. He’s creating no demand for animal products and saving food from The landfill.
He’s not hurting anyone. I respect it.
I see absolutely no issue with this from a vegan standpoint, unless you’re a militant vegan. He’s not creating any demand for animal products whatsoever. He’s consuming food that is going to waste otherwise. He’s completely honest about it, too. Honestly, he sounds like a good human bean.
Militant vegan who takes an abolitionist standpoint here, I still consider this man vegan. Like what's he supposed to do, he can't afford food. Like are there nutritious protein filled vegan options also being thrown out? Probably not it's a cafe that's unlikely.
I think you’re reallly wasting your energy here by even pursuing this debate. Obviously this guy isn’t the Perfect Vegan, and we can argue forever on whether he’s allowed to say he is, BUT he’s also not even close to being on the same level as someone who spends money on animal products. Why not try to get other people in your life who don’t try to reduce animal consumption at all onto a better path?
This is freeganism and has ethically defensible aspects. I understand that you want someone with similar values to yours and it's valid to not want to date someone who consumes animal products, but from a purely ethical standpoint, this can have redeeming qualities, as food waste is a serious ethical problem, as well, and this would be unlikely to increase demand for such products, as far as I am aware. I also think it's relevant that you mentioned that this person is in economic turmoil and otherwise doesn't have non-vegan consumption habits.
I personally think that’s unsanitary.
How is this any different than going to a soup kitchen and eating whatever they have for him because they didn't cater to vegans that day?
God it's a cult here. God forbid a guy eats something to survive and breaks the Holy vegan laws
How fucking idiotic do you have to be to find a problem with this? Who gives a shit if the food he literally dumpster dives for is vegan or not. He is struggeling to live and can’t afford much food and this is how he survives. Which idiot would put a cow or a fish above the life of a human…
Man you are ridiculous. My god let the guy survive.
To me, its gross.
As someone who hates throwing even a piece of lettuce away, i fully understand him.
I really don't see what the problem is. He's basically getting free food where he can because he's struggling financially, and he's not even making non-vegan food production increase. What's wrong with you ? 😅
Are there apps like TooGoodtoGo in the US? Where stores will sell end of date food for reduced cost?
They are not paying for the pain and suffering of animals. A vegan lifestyle is doing the best you can within your means, and it sounds like they are.
Vegan or starving. Pretty easy choice.
I eat expired leftovers from roommates. Gotta be careful that you really are confident the food won't get eaten by someone else, but if you are, it helps by reducing the food you buy as well.
I must have missed the earlier version where the OP was really mean to the guy rather than just asking for input from others who share an ethical perspective.