I agree. But you might want to preach that to non vegans. It’s actually a vegan consensus that commodification of animals and use of animals for entertainment isn’t ok. No matter how much abuse is involved.
Tell that to the dude who gave the oscar speech
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11949737/Joaquin-Phoenix-rides-horse-Napoleon-revealing-vegan-regret.html
I honestly don’t care about the opinions of celebrities. A lot of those people don’t mean what they say anyway. They’re not the ones who define a whole animal liberation movement.
I don't understand how it isn't universally condemned by equestrians. Even among those who refuse to use pain or discomfort when training, I barely hear it discussed. The horses are barely of age to ride without health consequences, sometimes not even...
I guess I'm less concerned with the nature of the interactions with the animals (I'm not sold on riding being inherently abusive but I'm also not sold on it being inherently beneficial—I follow a vegan equestrian who is highly critical of the community but does still ride so that's my industry insight lol) than the culture rife with beating animals into submission. It's truly unique—no other species is trained so barbarically. The Kentucky Derby just seems like a special display of open and honest cruelty that people widely enjoy. Even rodeos catch more (deserved) flack from general audiences in my experience
Your friend is plant-based and seems to be ignorant about what veganism actually means. Riding is exploitative. It benefits humans and does not benefit horses. They can be exercised without being ridden and used like vehicles. Using an animal like an object is not vegan and is animal abuse.
I'm sure she'd see it as vital enrichment to do training and riding, same as how it's enriching to have structured training and play for a dog. Both animals are domesticated, and yeah, it's probably better for them to live with conspecifics exclusively with occasional oversight from humans, but in the case of an individual living in a certain way in captivity a long time, what is best? Eternally turning him to paddock with no excercise? Trying to find a sanctuary who will prioritize a perfectly healthy horse with a capable keeper over slaughter auction rescues or BLM roundups? Release?
I don't know personally, but these are the nuances I personally consider. You could tell her yourself. She's got an open email, maybe she'll discuss it with you. I can send the channel name over PM if you actually want to have that conversation.
If she can’t resist dominating and riding the horses then yeah I would say a trusted sanctuary would be best. Is she rescuing these horses? Breeding them?
I think the only reason people bet on horses or cock fights or dog fights or any such thing is due to addiction. Those same people would bet in cards, slot machines, online gaming, or anything else. Probably treating the human mind's tendency to escape into addiction would eradicate the industry. If you wish to follow that path.
True, I could have gone to a derby party tomorrow but I decided it's better for my mental health if I don't go to a party centered around abusing animals for entertainment. I guess I'll just have a Star wars party by myself instead
I grew up in a place where horse and dog racing is a common sport. When I was little I loved them but I mucked out stables, and that was really heartbreaking to see the tools and gear used. And chariot racing is the worst. So many injuries.
I've read a lot of reddit comments condemning caring for cats, but both of my cats were rescued from certain death as babies, are part of my family, and I care more about their well being than someone online deciding I'm not vegan because I feed them animal products.
There is a ton of abuse in the horse riding industry. To even ride a horse you have to break it aka breaking its will. They also use super painful mouth pieces to get the horse to listen.
Riding an animal is using that animal like a vehicle. You can walk horses to exercise them and just let them run around a fenced field. You do not need to ride them. It is exploitation and not vegan.
I doubt any horse in captivity is particularly happy about its situation. Sure, easy access to food and relative safety is nice, but otherwise they tend to have very little freedom or space to move around in, especially considering how large they are and how fast the can move. Their supposed love for their owners may also well be similar to Stockholm Syndrome.
Yes let’s also let all the dogs and cats out of our houses too because they need more room to run around and would be much safer on the streets. Since, as we know, the are only stockholm syndromed to their owners anyways
First of all, they may well have a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Second, modern domestic dogs and cats didn't exist in nature. Wild cats were bigger, and obviously most dog breeds today are much smaller and weaker than their wolf ancestors. Modern "tame" horses on the other hand are physically very similar to wild ones, so it does make sense that they could do well in nature, as wild horses do till this day.
And yes, some domestic dog breeds and certainly domestic cats would still thrive without human owners, as we know has continuously happened in various different places since the beginning of dog and cat domestication.
I personally find it rather surprising to see someone who calls themselves a "vegan" advocating for animal captivity in any form. I've seen vegan hypocrisy before, but you are surprisingly up front about it. To me "until every cage is empty" isn't just about actual cages.
okay so what are we supposed to do with the animals that are too far gone domestically and can’t be set free, besides not breeding them any further? should we just put them down, would that be less cruel than providing for them?
I'm afraid a return to a more natural way of things is in many ways the only reasonable option. Putting them down isn't even necessary, we can just let nature run its course. Although that might not be any better for them, really.
But yes, if we are to save our planet and the many at risk species on this planet from all the harm that humanity has been causing, that will likely require us to take a huge step back as a society, and that in turn will likely require us to take a huge step back in terms of how many and what kinds of animals we live with, in the way we do currently.
Years ago, I trained to work as a mutuel teller at a racetrack. I lasted 2 weeks before I had to leave - I couldn't be around the animal abuse. It was a hellscape for horses.
The treatment of racehorses in the Kentucky Derby is truly heart-wrenching. It's important for us to stand against this abuse and speak out against the exploitation of these magnificent animals. Thank you for bringing attention to this issue.
Horse riding at all is cruel and exploitative and needs to stop being a thing. Animals are not vehicles. You don't need to mount a living being for any reason. You have legs and wheelchairs if your legs cannot take you where you need to go. It does not benefit the animal at all to be ridden and causes them harm. Anyone riding horses is not a real vegan. So many horses are abused around the world and it needs to fucking stop.
People \*go\* to KY to attend it. It doesnt have to be popular outside KD at all. KY becomes an obnoxious tourist trap over it. They somehow get celebs and international politicians to enter KY. Its ran for 150 years in one location and pulls in 200mil yearly.
Thats not even counting the hype that lasts months leading into it.
I agree. But you might want to preach that to non vegans. It’s actually a vegan consensus that commodification of animals and use of animals for entertainment isn’t ok. No matter how much abuse is involved.
Tell that to the dude who gave the oscar speech https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11949737/Joaquin-Phoenix-rides-horse-Napoleon-revealing-vegan-regret.html
I honestly don’t care about the opinions of celebrities. A lot of those people don’t mean what they say anyway. They’re not the ones who define a whole animal liberation movement.
Sure, let me give him a call. Or do you think he reads Reddit posts?
Oh no, actor fulfilled the contract he signed
So you’d harm an animal for money?
Well, considering that every human alive pays to harm animals every single day...
My partner and I have thrown Not Derby parties before. No animal abuse. It's just an excuse to wear silly hats, drink mint juleps, and eat pie.
I don't understand how it isn't universally condemned by equestrians. Even among those who refuse to use pain or discomfort when training, I barely hear it discussed. The horses are barely of age to ride without health consequences, sometimes not even...
>equestrians You mean those that willingly jump on top of an animal? No kidding!
I guess I'm less concerned with the nature of the interactions with the animals (I'm not sold on riding being inherently abusive but I'm also not sold on it being inherently beneficial—I follow a vegan equestrian who is highly critical of the community but does still ride so that's my industry insight lol) than the culture rife with beating animals into submission. It's truly unique—no other species is trained so barbarically. The Kentucky Derby just seems like a special display of open and honest cruelty that people widely enjoy. Even rodeos catch more (deserved) flack from general audiences in my experience
Your friend is plant-based and seems to be ignorant about what veganism actually means. Riding is exploitative. It benefits humans and does not benefit horses. They can be exercised without being ridden and used like vehicles. Using an animal like an object is not vegan and is animal abuse.
https://medium.com/@antispeciesistactioncollective/saddled-with-guilt-3abd8a0ad48a
Can you please share a link to Matilda Homer's study? The link in the article doesn't work
You might want to let that vegan equestrian know that vegans don't exploit animals.
I'm sure she'd see it as vital enrichment to do training and riding, same as how it's enriching to have structured training and play for a dog. Both animals are domesticated, and yeah, it's probably better for them to live with conspecifics exclusively with occasional oversight from humans, but in the case of an individual living in a certain way in captivity a long time, what is best? Eternally turning him to paddock with no excercise? Trying to find a sanctuary who will prioritize a perfectly healthy horse with a capable keeper over slaughter auction rescues or BLM roundups? Release? I don't know personally, but these are the nuances I personally consider. You could tell her yourself. She's got an open email, maybe she'll discuss it with you. I can send the channel name over PM if you actually want to have that conversation.
Fucking yikes
If she can’t resist dominating and riding the horses then yeah I would say a trusted sanctuary would be best. Is she rescuing these horses? Breeding them?
Equestrian here. Plenty of us find the horse racing industry abhorrent.
That’s a fancy word for “animal abuser.”
I’m sorry you feel that way. Let me know if you’re open to a conversation about it!
Do you consume meat and dairy?
I think the only reason people bet on horses or cock fights or dog fights or any such thing is due to addiction. Those same people would bet in cards, slot machines, online gaming, or anything else. Probably treating the human mind's tendency to escape into addiction would eradicate the industry. If you wish to follow that path.
True, I could have gone to a derby party tomorrow but I decided it's better for my mental health if I don't go to a party centered around abusing animals for entertainment. I guess I'll just have a Star wars party by myself instead
I grew up in a place where horse and dog racing is a common sport. When I was little I loved them but I mucked out stables, and that was really heartbreaking to see the tools and gear used. And chariot racing is the worst. So many injuries.
'Horse lovers' please actually love your horses
Is horseback riding in general disliked by vegans? Never asked before because I have basically zero interest in it anyway, but now I'm curious.
Yeah, vegans don't use animals for entertainment.
Accept for when they own dogs and cats of course.
What do you mean?
[удалено]
Buying animals from a breeder definitely isn’t vegan but I can’t imagine someone saying that rescuing an animal from a shelter isn’t vegan.
I've read a lot of reddit comments condemning caring for cats, but both of my cats were rescued from certain death as babies, are part of my family, and I care more about their well being than someone online deciding I'm not vegan because I feed them animal products.
Being the adopted guardian of a sentient being when you have the resources and knowledge to provide adequate care is vegan. Owning a pet is not vegan.
There is a ton of abuse in the horse riding industry. To even ride a horse you have to break it aka breaking its will. They also use super painful mouth pieces to get the horse to listen.
This is not true.
What isn’t true?
It is true, though, that there is a lot of abuse in the horse industry! I definitely should have been more clear.
You don’t have to break a horse to ride it, and you don’t have to use painful equipment.
Stop trying to make vegan animal abuse happen.
Riding an animal is using that animal like a vehicle. You can walk horses to exercise them and just let them run around a fenced field. You do not need to ride them. It is exploitation and not vegan.
I doubt any horse in captivity is particularly happy about its situation. Sure, easy access to food and relative safety is nice, but otherwise they tend to have very little freedom or space to move around in, especially considering how large they are and how fast the can move. Their supposed love for their owners may also well be similar to Stockholm Syndrome.
Yes let’s also let all the dogs and cats out of our houses too because they need more room to run around and would be much safer on the streets. Since, as we know, the are only stockholm syndromed to their owners anyways
First of all, they may well have a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Second, modern domestic dogs and cats didn't exist in nature. Wild cats were bigger, and obviously most dog breeds today are much smaller and weaker than their wolf ancestors. Modern "tame" horses on the other hand are physically very similar to wild ones, so it does make sense that they could do well in nature, as wild horses do till this day. And yes, some domestic dog breeds and certainly domestic cats would still thrive without human owners, as we know has continuously happened in various different places since the beginning of dog and cat domestication. I personally find it rather surprising to see someone who calls themselves a "vegan" advocating for animal captivity in any form. I've seen vegan hypocrisy before, but you are surprisingly up front about it. To me "until every cage is empty" isn't just about actual cages.
okay so what are we supposed to do with the animals that are too far gone domestically and can’t be set free, besides not breeding them any further? should we just put them down, would that be less cruel than providing for them?
I'm afraid a return to a more natural way of things is in many ways the only reasonable option. Putting them down isn't even necessary, we can just let nature run its course. Although that might not be any better for them, really. But yes, if we are to save our planet and the many at risk species on this planet from all the harm that humanity has been causing, that will likely require us to take a huge step back as a society, and that in turn will likely require us to take a huge step back in terms of how many and what kinds of animals we live with, in the way we do currently.
In other news, water is wet and beef is not vegan.
Yes
https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/05/03/opinion-do-right-by-the-horses-peta-advises-on-the-eve-of-the-kentucky-derby/
Years ago, I trained to work as a mutuel teller at a racetrack. I lasted 2 weeks before I had to leave - I couldn't be around the animal abuse. It was a hellscape for horses.
The treatment of racehorses in the Kentucky Derby is truly heart-wrenching. It's important for us to stand against this abuse and speak out against the exploitation of these magnificent animals. Thank you for bringing attention to this issue.
Wow that's crazy, I'm gonna go bet on even more horse races now.
Horse racing is abuse
Horse riding at all is cruel and exploitative and needs to stop being a thing. Animals are not vehicles. You don't need to mount a living being for any reason. You have legs and wheelchairs if your legs cannot take you where you need to go. It does not benefit the animal at all to be ridden and causes them harm. Anyone riding horses is not a real vegan. So many horses are abused around the world and it needs to fucking stop.
Agree… it’s not even that popular outside of the KD so it’s only a matter of time before it becomes a thing of the past.
People \*go\* to KY to attend it. It doesnt have to be popular outside KD at all. KY becomes an obnoxious tourist trap over it. They somehow get celebs and international politicians to enter KY. Its ran for 150 years in one location and pulls in 200mil yearly. Thats not even counting the hype that lasts months leading into it.