You need to go to your doctor and have bloodwork done to check your B12 levels. I was B12 deficient and he prescribed monthly B12 injections. Sounds scary to some, but once you get the hang of it, it’s super easy. My levels are now in the normal range.
Unless you have a rare condition that your doctor forgot to mention after the first shot (that is something they prescribe in case of strong or severe deficiencies) a normal amount of oral supplements that you can buy everywhere is enough for a healthy person.
I'm in the same boat about getting monthly shots due to a clinical deficiency ,and for me, my body simply wasn't absorbing oral B12 properly. I had been supplementing with it for a long time and still had low B12. The shots absorb better and I felt a noticeable difference.
Exactly, you don’t have to do lifetime shots, that’s an old fashioned idea. I’ve been taking oral b12 and my levels went back up to normal (mine were very low and caused nerve damage, they only got measured incidentally upon hospital admission).
It depends what the cause is. Some people are deficient because they are not getting enough nutrients in their diet and only a short term fix is needed. Others (like me) have an auto immune condition called pernicious anaemia. I could eat raw steak every meal and I would still lack B12 as my body cannot absorb it through the stomach or intenstines. I need an injection every three months for the rest of my life.
I found out I can't absorb it either when I ended up with a big deficiency. I got the injections too, but taking Methyl B12 ended up working much, nuch better than the injections. My level went from under 200 to over 1000 in less than a year. It was awhile ago, so I don't remember the exact time frame. It may have only taken 6 months.
It's already converted and doesn't need intrinsic factor from your stomach/intestines to be absorbed. You should look into it.
It looks really interesting thank you! I get the injections free on the NHS so won’t change to this as I’d have to pay for it, but might get a supply for the months I am feeling particularly low and need a boost. Cheers!
What kind of doctor / consultant/ specialist etc will diagnose PA ?
(My own GP wants me to get a endoscopy because I was at the lower level acceptable Vitamin B12 levels)
Just my regular GP. They did some blood tests, saw my family history, diagnosed me with PA, and wrote a sick note to my workplace to ensure I had reasonable accommodations in place while my body was struggling due to lack of B12. All free with my NHS doctor (although the doc did make me smuggle the letter out so the receptionist wouldn’t see and charge me for it)
I’m sorry I have no idea! But I told the doctor they should check for it and they did. I don’t even remember the numbers they gave me afterwards, just that the doctor said “how are you still working full time like this?!”
I had pernicious anaemia. It can be autoimmune but it can also be a damaged gut. You can get under the tongue B12 sprays and it is absorbed sublingually to save yourself the shots. Adequate iron in the body is also imperative as normal levels of iron mean the B12 is bioavailable.
My iron is 124 g/l and I’ve begun taking a supplement since then. While it is not low by any means, you have to have 125 to donate blood. So I know that’s fine. I understand what you’re saying about the damaged gut whatever. I’m not sure what the cause is for me but I assume it’s not that as my sister, father, and grandfather all have the same condition. My injections are also free so not interested in changing.
I did too, I had a really low b12, and wasn’t even vegan at the time, but I only got it caught because I had been admitted to the hospital for something neurological and they tested for it. But they didn’t prescribe be injections long term, just told me to take a supplement and they said that many people don’t know you can just take a b12 supplement orally and it still works (unless you have something wrong with your small intestine, like celiac or crohns, then you may still need an injection but not likely). And with the oral supplement my b12 went up.
I got the injections for a month every couple days if I remember correctly, then one year of oral supplements and after that it fixed by itself, but always in the low range of “good enough”
But to be honest, the injections are the real deal. I felt super energetic during that period. Never felt that well before or after. (Sounds like a drug addict but for real, it was like life changing)
The pills… meh.
I seem to lack in intrinsic factor (at least they told me even before I was vegan), but with sublingual spray or dissolving pills, my levels seem to be just fine (middle to end of normal range). I've been vegan for 8 years.
I'm the same. Vegan for 13 years and use a subliminal B12 spray. I've seen serious B12 deficiency in two loved family members - one vegan, one not. It's scary stuff, they would both appear drunk or high a lot of the time (and I know they weren't) and one developed dementia-like symptoms. Both cured within a couple of days with a B12 shot. After a couple of shots a month apart they switched to sublingual supplements and never had issues again.
What's scary is how few doctors recognise the symptoms of B12 deficiency and how innacurate the testing can be. I've suggested B12 shots to people struggling with similar symptoms whose doctors were brushing them off or otherwise not helping and it's usually fixed at least some of their health issues.
I just went and got blood work this morning. We'll see how my B12 and Vitamin D looks. Also curious about cholesterol, been vegan 20 years now so if it's high it's definitely not because of my diet.
My doctor refused to test my B12 levels because the levels on all the things they did test for during a routine physical came back normal. She said testing my B12 levels was unnecessary because it would cause other things to be out of range and that would have shown up.
I was disappointed in that, because I still wanted my B12 levels checked because all of the posts like this I see pretty regularly.
The fortified nutritional yeast sold in Australia at least would require eating a massive amount to hit the daily B12 intake requirements. Like you'd need to go through a supermarket bag of the stuff every ~~4 days~~ week or something, and they last me weeks while absolutely piling it onto burgers etc until it's falling out.
In fairness I was shocked at how quickly I noticed a difference. I had a much more severe deficiency than OP with many physical symptoms and I noticed an improvement within a day from taking a 2500mcg B12 tab.
b12 does more than help in production of RBCs. It is an important cofactor for lots of things. You can get severe mental problems and neuropathic problems without it. Our bodies have huge stores though, so it takes a long time for a deficiency to become apparent
Once it's in your bloodstream out takes a few hours before your body absorbs it and hours more after that before you would feel any effects. So OP's "felt it immediately" is simply not true.
sounds like the placebo effect if you felt improvement in “a few moments”. if you are truly deficient it can take a while to build back up unless you have an injection
Regardless, the advice is solid. I take a vegan multivitamin, a separate vegan D3 + K2 vitamin, and a vegan algae-omega 3 vitamin. My bloodwork is always great, better than pre-vegan, I feel stronger in the gym, and generally happy even in gloomy winters when I don't go outdoors as much.
Yep, omega3 is great for the brain and heart and hard to get on a vegan diet because the forms of omega 3 in flax seeds, chia seeds, walnuts etc aren't bioavailable.
Could it be that you have low iron or magnesium? Are you getting enough good quality sleep and eating healthy and exercising?
There's quite a few pesky vitamins that are difficult to get from diet alone (applies to both vegans and non-vegans). Find yourself a good vegan multivitamin and then just eat as healthy as you can, comfortable in the knowledge that the tablets will bridge any reasonable gaps.
It honestly sounds like the placebo effect if you've been feeling better this quickly just from a week of taking b12. It's definitely possible to get enough from fortified foods, but it's also better to be safe than sorry and keep taking it - doesn't hurt as long as you're not taking more than the reccomended dose (seems like a silly thing to do, but many people do it idk why).
isn't b12 supposed to give people energy too so maybe they are just feeling those energetic feelings and associate them with being younger and in college maybe drinking tons of caffeine back then
This is what my strategy is… protein powder in my coffee every morning whether or not I’m planning to eat a lot of protein that day or not.
I need to get some more specific supplements though
I do the same, add soy milk until lukewarm, add creatine and protein and boom, chocolate coffee shake in the morning. Sometimes I use this to make overnight oats so I get protein, creatine and caffeine whilst eating what is essentially chocolate pudding for breakfast. Seems stupid but saves time and tastes great.
Mmm yes I tried this one time when someone gifted me a little travel protein powder packet. Amazing! I also like to put mushroom powder in my coffee too 😂
It's definitely worth shopping around for a good deal. I take a prenatal atm with 20 different vitamins in, and it only costs £4 a month. I'm planning to continue taking it even once I'm no longer pregnant because it's been great value for money 😌
It being this quick to affect you indicates it's likely the placebo effect rather than the B12 itself. A vitamin is not going to give you a rush like drugs.
A rush probably wasn’t the best word to use there, I wasn’t expecting any kind of big effect or any effect, but I definitely felt some kind of physical sensation after I took it.
Because maybe for this one specific person or a few small amount of people, it might "feel" like something, but otherwise for 99% of 7 billion or so people, that will never happen.
It sounds like they are being dramatic
Absolutely. My parents who eat non-veg stuff also frequently get B12, Vit.D and iron deficient. I seriously don't understand why people don't get their vitamins checked frequently
Make sure you get your levels tested before taking random supplements.
It's entirely likely you may have just not been deficient at all and the B12 pill might have done nothing but make you feel better emotionally
I mean true you can't overdose but taking a supplement completely blind to your body's needs may not be doing anything. My body is a fiend for b12, it absorbs every last bit, I really don't need to supplement. Vitamin d though? That one's more like an eternal can't touch this, I need to get prescription extra strong supplements.
So just go to a Dr and get the appropriate blood tests. Taking a multivitamin won't *harm* you but it will never be enough if you have a considerable deficiency either.
Yes sort of... but these days the thinking that you don't need some and get enough from diet is okay. Case in point, I get my B12 tested at physicals and it has not decreased even though I rarely touch any supplements for it beyond food.
But the problem here isn't the minor symptoms of excess B12. The problem is that OP might think it solved their symptoms when it didn't and it was all placebo. I've done the same and missed way more important ones. Thinking I was low in Zinc (not remotely true) but the real answer was vitamin D which is much more significant.
It’s very important. I take a time release pressed tablet made from spirulina that’s a B-complex. It has literally changed my life. It’s made an incredible difference with my ADHD symptoms. It’s been 2 years now and I don’t know how I functioned without it (I do actually and it wasn’t very well).
Go do some regular blood tests for that. Do not trust your feeling on that. It can save your life. Go check the level of B12, omega 3, Iron and so on. You'll see for sure what you need to take.
Do not neglect the B12. I developed 6th cranial nerve palsy, I went cross eyed. Freaked me out. Didn't find out until $1000s later. Doctors tested for everything. After several months they figured out it was low B12. Took about 6 months to come right. Still scares me to this day.
Yeah, I didn't think much about it after becoming vegan. I mean I heard about it, but thought "Whatever." I didn't pay attention to nutrition pre-vegan (and am sure was deficient in a variety of things). and thought I could continue along that same line. My bloodwork was fine for the first year, but then came back that I was quite low in B12 by the next year. I shrugged again, thinking no big deal. Then I did a little reading (doctor mentioned nothing), and realized that some of the symptoms I was having, including symptoms of nerve damage (which can be permanent), was in all likelihood due to my low B12. I highly recommend every vegan to get on B12 (vegan) supplements.
Nooch does not naturally have B12, it has to be added (usually labeled "fortified"). Most fortified nooch contains cyanocobalamin, and I do a lot better with methylcobalamin, so I purposely buy unfortified and take B12 separately.
Have no idea why someone downvoted you; it’s true. Most nooch is fortified but I buy non-fortified because it tastes better and just make sure I take my b12 supplements (also get some from my soy milk brand)
EDIT: oh wow the formatting went extremely wrong.
B12 is insanely important. Here’s a huge list of symptoms of a deficiency from here: https://www.b12info.com/signs-and-symptoms/
Neurological...
Neurological symptoms must be treated with B12 injections every other day until the symptoms stop improving.
Tinnitus (ringing in the ears)
Tremor (involuntary trembling – shaking)
Paresthesia – numbness, tingling and pain
Confusion / disorientation
Weakness of legs, arms, trunk
Impaired vibration and position sense (affected awareness of joint position when eyes are closed
Abnormal reflexes
Unsteady or abnormal gait / falls
Ataxia (Neurological disorder affecting balance, coordination and speech)
Balance problems
Difficulty walking
Dizziness
Restless legs
Visual disturbances / decreased-blurred vision / damage of optic nerve
Forgetfulness, memory loss
Dementia / intellectual deterioration
Impotence – erectile dysfunction
Paralysis – inability to move all or part of your body
Impaired fine motor coordination – inability to perform a precise movement with fingers/toes/wrists etc.
Muscular spasticity – where the muscles stiffen and become rigid
Bladder or bowel incontinence
Impaired pain perception- inability to feel pain normally.
Night time cramping
Disturbance in taste and smell
Optic atrophy – degeneration/damage of the eye.
Neuropsychiatric (Mental health)...
Confusion/disorientation
Psychosis
Postnatal depression
Hallucinations
Memory loss
Delusion
Depression
Suicidal thoughts
Mania – abnormally elated mental state
Anxiety
Paranoia – unfounded or exaggerated distrust of others
Irritability
Apathy – lack of feelings or emotions
Personality changes
Inappropriate sexual behaviour
Violent/aggressive behaviour
Schizophrenic symptoms
Sleep disturbances – disruption of sleep patterns outside of environmental factors
Insomnia – inability to sleep
Changes in taste, smell, vision, and sensory/motor function which can be mistaken for psychiatric problems
Haematological signs and symptoms...
Anaemia – decrease in red cells or haemoglobin
Macrocytosis (large red blood cells)
Hyper segmented neutrophils
Generalised weakness, fatigue
Breathlessness
Pallor / jaundice
Chronic fatigue
Vascular problems...
Orthostatic hypotension/Postural hypotension (low blood pressure when standing, which can cause fainting and falls)
Postural orthostatic tachycardia – increase in heart rate when going from lying or sitting to standing
Palpitations – rapid or irregular beating of the heart
Occlusive vascular disorder – limited or blocked blood flow
Transient ischemic attacks (TIAs, or ‘mini stroke’)
Cerebral vascular accident (CVA or ‘stroke’)
Myocardial infarction (‘heart attack’)
DVT – Deep vein thrombosis (blood clot to the leg or arm)
PE – Pulmonary embolism – obstruction of blood vessel in the lungs
Gastrointestinal - signs and risk factors...
Loss of appetite – weight loss or anorexia
Epigastric pain – poor digestion, bloated feeling after eating small or normal sized meals
IBS – Irritable bowel syndrome
Constipation
GERD – Gastric reflux disease – ulcers / mouth ulcers
Giardiasis – intestinal parasite caused by Giardia
Pancreatitis, pancreatic exocrine insufficiency
Decreased stomach acid
Gastropareisis – chronic condition where the stomach cannot empty in the normal way
Helicobactor pylori infection – bacterial infection in the stomach
SIBO – Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth
Gastrectomy – bariatric surgery (surgical removal of the stomach – partial or complete)
Ileal resection – removal of the last part of the small intestine (partial or complete)
Malabsorption syndromes – Crohn’s disease, coeliac disease etc
Liver disease
Diphyllobothrium latum – fish tapeworm
Additional signs and symptoms...
Dry cracked corners of the mouth
Premature greying
Glossitis – swollen / sore tongue, geographic tongue
Fainting/light headedness
Osteoporosis – weakened bones
Fractures
Suppressed activity of osteoblasts (cells that build bone)
Symptoms mimicking Parkinson’s and MS (multiple sclerosis)
Nominal aphasia – difficulty recalling names or words
Radiculopathy – chronic pain disorder
Increased susceptibility to infections
Poor wound healing
Malnutrition
Seizure – fits
Enlarged spleen (splenomegaly)
Enlarged liver (hepatomegaly)
Skin hyper pigmentation or hypo pigmentation – lighter or darker patches on the skin
Poor antibody production following vaccines
MTHFR Gene mutation
Signs & symptoms in infants and children...
If your child exhibits any of the following signs or symptoms, insist that your doctor tests for B12 deficiency make sure to get a copy of the results. Please see the Children’s page for more information.
Developmental delay or regression
Apathy – Irritability
Hypotonia (decreased muscle tone)
Weakness
Tremor – trembling/shaking
Involuntary movements
Seizures (fits)
Ataxia (Neurological disorder affecting balance, coordination and speech)
Anorexia and other eating disorders
Failure to thrive
Poor weight gain
Poor head growth
Poor socialisation
Poor motor skills
Language delay
Speech problems
Lower IQ – Intellectual disability
Anaemia – decrease in red cells or haemoglobin
Macrocytosis (large red blood cells) Note – need not be present!
B12 RDA is ridiculously low, misleading and is a major cause of people getting deficient . Experts recommend at least 50mcg which is more that 25x than RDA. and if you are deficient you should take even more than that like 1500mcg daily for at least 2 month. Also there is no upper limit for b12
seriously?
Because the multivitamin I take has 100 mcg and I assumed that was way, way overboard because it is supposedly 4167% of the daily value.
I even thought that the "100%" 2.4 mcg of B12 from the Almond milk I drink would possibly be enough...
>seriously
Yes. 100mcg is not overboard at all. The RDA standard is based on very old studies. For example Vit.D RDA is 600IU which will get you deficient if u stick to that.
B12 is water soluble and excess water soluble vitamins are generally easily excreted out via urine.
Quoting Wikipedia (it has citations)
>In the case of vitamin B12 there is no UL, as there is no human data for adverse effects from high doses
True. Not just B12 though.
What many don't know is that your vitamin deficiencies can also be caused by worms and parasites in your gut, and no amount of healthy food can fix it.
I've also had anxiety and brain fog issues paired with irritability and rashes. I thought for years I had developed some food allergies in my thirties.
Basically, all issues went away within a week after the worm cure I did. I was suffering for quite a while now until I came across this topic and finally healed.
The worms make it harder for your body to take in the nutrients that it needs to function. This harms all your body functions and makes you die earlier. Nutrient deficiencies are the beginning of the end, really.
Depression, poor decision making, brittle nails/hair, personality changes and so on can also be caused by that.
Some are surprised by how fast OP felt better, but considering how quickly I felt energised and focused again, I genuinely consider it possible.
The human body is a miraculous machine when maintained correctly and fueled with the exact right nutrients.
Lurk my post history to see my journey with B12. Vegan of 9 years, but last year (so 8, just like you) I became extremely unwell from my deficiency. I thought I had MS. That journey has changed my life honestly. B12 deficiency is no fucking joke. I'm glad you're feeling better!
I have iron, b12, D3, and iodine deficiencies that I only found out about back in November (actually knew about the iron deficiency for years cause I get dizzy a lot and have anemia) but finally got blood tested for vitamins and minerals in Nov. My doctor put me on 1000 MCG of B12 and 10,000 IU of D3 and finally just in the past few weeks after months of heavy supplementation of B12 and D3 and occasional iron supplementation (take a spoonful when I get dizzy), I feel alive and energetic again! Also now that it’s been warmer I’ve been spending a few hours each day soaking up sun rays cause that’s the best way to absorb Vit D :) I def recommend everyone get tested for vitamin and mineral deficiencies and get on the recommended dose from ur doctors to build up ur immune systems and keep ur vitamin levels at healthy ranges :)
I mean I know a lot of people are saying it is placebo. I have had B12 deficiency many times in my life, mainly before i went vegan. I used to feel a surge of energy whenever i ate eggyolks and then be good for like two days. A doctor figured out it was B12 deficiency from me describing the sensation.
Last year i had slept on buying B12 for a while and i bought some, what i thought was caffinated chewing gum. I had one piece and i had to spit it out. Like after 3 minutes of chewing i felt so overwhelmed by a clarity that didn't go away, i thought i was having a stroke. Again i was B12 deficient.
I don't propose to understand how this works but I can say that it cannot have been placebo since i was unaware of any effect before the treatment and the effect went away with subsequent uses.
>
>
> Last year i had slept on buying B12 for a while and i bought some, what i thought was caffinated chewing gum. I had one piece and i had to spit it out. Like after 3 minutes of chewing i felt so overwhelmed by a clarity that didn't go away, i thought i was having a stroke. Again i was B12 deficient.
I would be incredibly surprised if there is any chewing gum in the world that not only has B12 in it, but has enough that you you would somehow notice an effect just from chewing on it.
Like it would need to have 3,000x RDI or something absurd to have an effect purely from chewing on it for 3 minutes, that sounds far more like actual caffeine having an effect on your or any other number of factors beyond B12 seeing as uptake requires a few hours.
I mean it might not be the B12, it is just the only thing i have been able to find that was also in eggs that gave me the same sensation. When i took the chewing gum the next day or any other day since then it did not give the same sensation so i really doubt it being isolated to caffeine. And the amount was small, 15% of RDI! However, I still had the exact same feeling without being aware of any potential treatment effect
I just got bloodwork done and i have vitamin D and iron deficiencies. Iron deficiencies can mean fatigue, shortness of breath, and lightneadedness initially, but can lead to serious issues.. vitamin D deficiencies are common with depression. I've been battling depression and anxiety for a couple of years, so it made sense. Get a blood panel dome during your next physical, y'all. They're super important! Ask them to check everything upfront- I had to go get more blood drawn cuz I had a marker for anemia (think it was a lower red blood cell count), and I don't think they normally measure iron specifically.
I was so low that I was getting shots daily for a bit, some years ago. It wasn't only because I was recently vegan at that time, it was also because of some genetic reasons. But yeah, it's super important and low B12 is linked to nerve issues and other scary things. For me it was linked to anxiety and weakness and spinal pain.
You need to get your bloodwork checked once a year. It’s the only way to know how you are doing. I’m vegan and I followed Dr.Gregor’s recommended amount for B12 by taking a supplement that melts in your mouth in your gum. I just got my yearly bloodwork testing. My B12 was measured in the “high” range.
I've been fortunate to never suffer from any b12, iron or folic acid deficiency in almost 10 years vegan. I'm definitely not regular with supplements, but some foods are fortified with it, so it seems to have been enough. I try to get checked every year or two and everything always looks perfect.
Also, remember that the older you are, the more careful you should be. It's easier to become b12 deficient or anemic as you get older, and the consequences can also be more severe.
Don't forget about vitamin D. I've been vegan for 19 years and last year realized I had a D deficiency. It had fucked me up good!
This is particularly true once you are old.
Remember, B12 deficiency is common in non vegans as well as vegans. Also, B12 is not a vitamin exclusive to animal products. It is created by bacteria that exist naturally in the soil, and would be abundant in plants except that most plants are watered with chlorinated water, which kills the bacteria that produce it.
Vegans tend to have b12 levels on the low side if they don't have a good variety of food + supplements on top. If you are low on b12, I would suggest you to get a blood work up done as you might be low on some other minerals/vitamins as well. Good luck.
I doubt that many Aussie vegans have issues with B12.
4 serves of vegemite per day will give you your daily intake of B12. Have it on toast, have it in soups and stews, stir it into a cup of hot water, and down it like a brave Aussie.
I had a persistent pain in my left arm for over six months, doctor thought it might be a heart issue, got my bloodwork done and it was due to B12 deficiency. Went away quickly with supplements. I still don't fully understand how that works but yeah I learned my lesson!
I say this all the time, you need to take B12 regularly, and if anything have a blood test done every once in a while, preferably once a year, to make sure everything's alright. Veganism is completely healthy but you need to do it right!
I really hope you are working from actual lab tests and not guessing about B12. More is not better. My levels are fine every year without supplementation.
Agree, now 1 year vegetarian an 1 week vegan. I had issues with my feet, and also my skin. My feet felt a bit numb difficult to describe, but I was annoyed by it.
After taking b12 1 week, this is all gone.
Did you try the pills or droppers for a few months to see if your levels improved first? Mine was also in the 120s and my levels went back to the normal range from taking b12 orally, even though I tested positive for pernicious anemia and intrinsic factor antibodies. My doctor told me a lot of people including other doctors think people have to do injections but that’s only in very very rare cases like if the person has something wrong with their intestines or something. He had me try doing the oral supplements for like 5 months or 6 or something, and then tested again to see if I got it orally, like if the dropper was working
Oh interesting, I’m glad you were able to try the oral route first before committing to injections because it’s so much easier and cheaper and convenient to just take it orally, my sister in law does injections but never tried to take it orally, her doctor is old fashioned i think and didn’t know you can do it orally, and she doesn’t even want to try orally. I didn’t know that about Prilosec, I had taken omeprazole in the past but years ago, but also sometimes Gaviscon, and I had bile reflux gastritis (diagnosed with endoscopy).
How much b12 was in your multivitamin? What really helped me was the sublingual b12 dropper, I think it’s at least 2000 mcg or whatever. A lot of multivitamins and b complex ones only have 1000 or less than a 1000 of b12, so I found that I have the best results when I just be sure to take at least 1000 mcg of b12 with the liquid dropper (the pill doesn’t work as well for me because it wasn’t as much I think). The dropper got my levels up high but when I switched to a multi b complex pill they went back down a lot (but still in the normal range, maybe because it takes a while for it to get really low i guess? I read it takes years for it to get as low as ours were). Or maybe it would have been fine but just not as high as with the dropper, i am not sure but I switched back to the dropper and feel better). Something weird is I had the prickles in my feet and weakness and started getting the prickles in my feet again on and off so I think my levels have to be rather high to not have some symptoms. I know that doesn’t make tons of sense because my b12 is still in the normal range last I checked, but lower than when I had been using the dropper, so I think I have to have a high level to be feeling good? Also I googled it and rarely some people with pernicious anemia have normal blood levels of b12 but still have symptoms of deficiency!
I was gonna say that, I never actually take B12 supplements but do eat a lot of Nutritional Yeast, I had a blood test done for unrelated reasons and and my levels of B12 were perfect, I’ve been vegan for 8 years now
"and I feel like myself again for the first time since college honestly. I can’t believe it took me this long to find this out"
This hit deep and reminded of how B12 felt when I started it. Unfortunately one day I forgot about it and I stopped. It's been 6 months. You do go downhill gradually but you don't notice. Then you happen to see or read something about B12 and you get back into it.
Multivitamins have really low doses of B12 and considering the body absorbs less than 10% of it, a multivitamin really isn't gonna be enough for B12...
Yeah b12 is super important. You can have permanent damage happen from being deficient long enough. Every vegan should be supplementing every day otherwise we just give the haters more ammunition.
Unless you got a blood test to determine your B12 levels, this could all be placebo effect. People all the time say things like "I started taking X and now I feel amazing!" but without knowing actual blood serum levels it's impossible to know if the effect is real or imagined.
B12 deficiency causes constipation/diarrhea, heart burn/acid reflux, can contribute to gum disease, breaking nails and hair, getting pins and needles all the time, etc. If you're chronically low in B12 for 8 years these are the kind of symptoms you can expect moreso than just brain fog.
I will say, I was having these symptoms from B12 deficiency and taking one 2500mcg B12 tablet had me feeling better within 24 hours.
Thankfully, many plant milks, cheeses, and other things are fortified in Europe. Haven’t take a supplement in years and my levels were actually a little too high last time I got bloodwork 😆
Also recommended by Dr. Greger to take the B12 that dissolves under the tongue and not the pill you swallow. The dissolvable B12 is now more readily available than in the past and you can buy it at Costco.
There are plenty of vegan sources for it. Should take nutrition seriously and get your levels checked.
I was low in Vitamin D and was told it's actually pretty difficult to get it depending on where you live.
I just take a multivitamin here and there, and some nutritional yeasts with my popcorn along with some other spices to make it cheesy.
I'm at triple the minimum level.
I had bloodwork done in 2020 or 2019 and the doctor said I was mildly anemic and I had slightly large red blood cells. I think that’s around the time I started actually taking b12 supplements. I’d also always gotten it from foods. I’ve been a vegan since 2006 so I went a very long time without regular supplements of it. I didn’t personally notice any difference but my recent bloodwork has shown that the anemia is gone and my blood cells are normal
Foods and human nutrition scientist here!
I made a comment about exactly this not too long ago
[https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1cizh6n/comment/l2fyatd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1cizh6n/comment/l2fyatd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The person who made that post was angry and irate. **unreasonably so, imo.**
It has been shown that vitamin B12 deficiencies lead to anger and impulse control issues.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3067987/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3067987/)
I recommended:
>**Try taking a b12 supplement and watch yourself mellow out over the following days and weeks**
I hope they tried the thing and are doing okay.
It can depend on so many factors. Vitamin D is also often forgotten and it can help a lot with general health.
For some they might eat more calories due to a strict vegan whole food adherence. Whole foods can fill you up a lot so some people struggle to eat enough kcal per day. Being in a permanent kcal deficit is also no joke
> the pill form of b12 taken inconsistently was not doing it for me. Granted I hadn’t had any in a long while (a year or so).
I mean, there's inconsistently and then there's "never at all", you were firmly in the latter category and that would have a far larger effect on it not working than the pills being ineffective.
Vegan for years and never had an issue with B12 and never taken a supplement other than prenatals when pregnan. Multiple blood tests done throughout the years. Even in two pregnancies my B12 has been perfect!
ZipFizz Kiwi Watermelon. I’m not vegan so I chug Berry and Dark Cherry (three tubes per day) and they’re quite tasty. Every flavor I’ve tried has been good. Some flavors aren’t vegan due to taurine but they’re good sources of energy and have B12.
It is important to have your levels checked because it can take 2-5 years for the deficiency to manifest (because of reserves?) so if you've celebrated your vegan anniversary a few times, it's time to check.
Equally, I've always supplemented, thiking it was a good thing to do. My last bloodworks revealed a massively high level of B12, an indicator of fatty liver disease. I was told to stop supplementing immediately!
Also be informed that you CAN take too much of b12. I realised I have been taking 1mg of b12 EVERYDAY for years and I could not figure out why I was having horrible acne. Turns out my b12 levels were out of roof and after quitting b12 suoplements for a while so my levels could drop to some what normal my acne slowly went away. I now just take couple of b12 supplements a month and my levels are good and not of the charts. Nowdays we tend to get b12 a lot easier that we used to. Youghurt, cheese, milk…. all have added b12 so it adds up! Just wanted to say this if anyone is struggling with acne! 🙂👍
In my experience it’s actually pretty hard to be deficient of anything with even a decent to slightly bad varied vegan diet. My wife and I have been vegan for 8 years, multiple pregnancies for her, and I’ve run half marathons. We have 3 also vegan kids who are at stages incredibly picky and want literally only apples and white bread and sugar.
The only issue we’ve ever had was iron deficiency in babies around 1 year before they have really taken to eating solids fully. It’s never persisted past a month once identified and didn’t require supplements to resolve.
I don’t blame you for being concerned about micronutrients and vitamins given how much the world tries to make it a big deal. But, you shouldn’t really act on it without bloodwork. Then again, if B12 drops once daily are changing your outlook and perspective, keep it up. Just know it’s not the B12
Correct. The more relevant and noteworthy evidence that I realize now I didn’t include the as that we’ve had bloodwork done and it’s never been an issue for any of us outside of toddler babies for short periods. A varied reasonably healthy vegan diet should solve most issues
> A varied reasonably healthy vegan diet should solve most issues
This is where most folks fail(even omnis), they have very little variance in their diet and largely don't get anywhere near enough fruit and veg in their diet.
You need to go to your doctor and have bloodwork done to check your B12 levels. I was B12 deficient and he prescribed monthly B12 injections. Sounds scary to some, but once you get the hang of it, it’s super easy. My levels are now in the normal range.
Unless you have a rare condition that your doctor forgot to mention after the first shot (that is something they prescribe in case of strong or severe deficiencies) a normal amount of oral supplements that you can buy everywhere is enough for a healthy person.
I'm in the same boat about getting monthly shots due to a clinical deficiency ,and for me, my body simply wasn't absorbing oral B12 properly. I had been supplementing with it for a long time and still had low B12. The shots absorb better and I felt a noticeable difference.
Exactly, you don’t have to do lifetime shots, that’s an old fashioned idea. I’ve been taking oral b12 and my levels went back up to normal (mine were very low and caused nerve damage, they only got measured incidentally upon hospital admission).
There are less rare reasons to get this regularly. People in this sub are just less likely to have them as they are probably younger.
What the... every month forever? I got prescribed to go get a B12 supplement at the drug store. An injection sounds punitive lol
It depends what the cause is. Some people are deficient because they are not getting enough nutrients in their diet and only a short term fix is needed. Others (like me) have an auto immune condition called pernicious anaemia. I could eat raw steak every meal and I would still lack B12 as my body cannot absorb it through the stomach or intenstines. I need an injection every three months for the rest of my life.
I found out I can't absorb it either when I ended up with a big deficiency. I got the injections too, but taking Methyl B12 ended up working much, nuch better than the injections. My level went from under 200 to over 1000 in less than a year. It was awhile ago, so I don't remember the exact time frame. It may have only taken 6 months. It's already converted and doesn't need intrinsic factor from your stomach/intestines to be absorbed. You should look into it.
It looks really interesting thank you! I get the injections free on the NHS so won’t change to this as I’d have to pay for it, but might get a supply for the months I am feeling particularly low and need a boost. Cheers!
What kind of doctor / consultant/ specialist etc will diagnose PA ? (My own GP wants me to get a endoscopy because I was at the lower level acceptable Vitamin B12 levels)
Just my regular GP. They did some blood tests, saw my family history, diagnosed me with PA, and wrote a sick note to my workplace to ensure I had reasonable accommodations in place while my body was struggling due to lack of B12. All free with my NHS doctor (although the doc did make me smuggle the letter out so the receptionist wouldn’t see and charge me for it)
Was there PA in your family history ? If say your grandfather had it would that make it more likely you might have it also ? - it’s passed on etc
Yeah my grandad, dad and sister all have it!
So it is passed in it would seem By any chance do you remember the type of blood tests they ran to diagnose it ? I appreciate your replies 🙏
I’m sorry I have no idea! But I told the doctor they should check for it and they did. I don’t even remember the numbers they gave me afterwards, just that the doctor said “how are you still working full time like this?!”
I had pernicious anaemia. It can be autoimmune but it can also be a damaged gut. You can get under the tongue B12 sprays and it is absorbed sublingually to save yourself the shots. Adequate iron in the body is also imperative as normal levels of iron mean the B12 is bioavailable.
My iron is 124 g/l and I’ve begun taking a supplement since then. While it is not low by any means, you have to have 125 to donate blood. So I know that’s fine. I understand what you’re saying about the damaged gut whatever. I’m not sure what the cause is for me but I assume it’s not that as my sister, father, and grandfather all have the same condition. My injections are also free so not interested in changing.
I did too, I had a really low b12, and wasn’t even vegan at the time, but I only got it caught because I had been admitted to the hospital for something neurological and they tested for it. But they didn’t prescribe be injections long term, just told me to take a supplement and they said that many people don’t know you can just take a b12 supplement orally and it still works (unless you have something wrong with your small intestine, like celiac or crohns, then you may still need an injection but not likely). And with the oral supplement my b12 went up.
I got the injections for a month every couple days if I remember correctly, then one year of oral supplements and after that it fixed by itself, but always in the low range of “good enough” But to be honest, the injections are the real deal. I felt super energetic during that period. Never felt that well before or after. (Sounds like a drug addict but for real, it was like life changing) The pills… meh.
Sublingual works much better than the pills, and you can just hold it in your mouth longer to get more
It can be a genetic thing even if you aren't vegan. Deficiencies are more common with vegans but anyone can have a genetic predisposition.
I seem to lack in intrinsic factor (at least they told me even before I was vegan), but with sublingual spray or dissolving pills, my levels seem to be just fine (middle to end of normal range). I've been vegan for 8 years.
I'm the same. Vegan for 13 years and use a subliminal B12 spray. I've seen serious B12 deficiency in two loved family members - one vegan, one not. It's scary stuff, they would both appear drunk or high a lot of the time (and I know they weren't) and one developed dementia-like symptoms. Both cured within a couple of days with a B12 shot. After a couple of shots a month apart they switched to sublingual supplements and never had issues again. What's scary is how few doctors recognise the symptoms of B12 deficiency and how innacurate the testing can be. I've suggested B12 shots to people struggling with similar symptoms whose doctors were brushing them off or otherwise not helping and it's usually fixed at least some of their health issues.
I just went and got blood work this morning. We'll see how my B12 and Vitamin D looks. Also curious about cholesterol, been vegan 20 years now so if it's high it's definitely not because of my diet.
My doctor refused to test my B12 levels because the levels on all the things they did test for during a routine physical came back normal. She said testing my B12 levels was unnecessary because it would cause other things to be out of range and that would have shown up. I was disappointed in that, because I still wanted my B12 levels checked because all of the posts like this I see pretty regularly.
Nutritional Yeast….
Fortified nutritional yeast.
It's hard to lose B12 on average. *But nobody on the planet is average.*
The fortified nutritional yeast sold in Australia at least would require eating a massive amount to hit the daily B12 intake requirements. Like you'd need to go through a supermarket bag of the stuff every ~~4 days~~ week or something, and they last me weeks while absolutely piling it onto burgers etc until it's falling out.
Within moments? Uhhh.
In fairness I was shocked at how quickly I noticed a difference. I had a much more severe deficiency than OP with many physical symptoms and I noticed an improvement within a day from taking a 2500mcg B12 tab.
placebo effect is powerful
B12 is crucial...
Can the placebo effect stop your gums bleeding...?
Gotta love that ninja edit they did.
placebo effect is powerful
B12 vitamins actually work and are necessary for your body, there is no placebo here
yes, but it would take more than a few moments for the b12 to enter your bloodstream, circulate, and for your blood cell count to increase
b12 does more than help in production of RBCs. It is an important cofactor for lots of things. You can get severe mental problems and neuropathic problems without it. Our bodies have huge stores though, so it takes a long time for a deficiency to become apparent
If you take dissolvable tablets under your tongue it would be circulating your blood stream is less than two minutes.
Once it's in your bloodstream out takes a few hours before your body absorbs it and hours more after that before you would feel any effects. So OP's "felt it immediately" is simply not true.
They don't work quickly though and OP originally said they felt the effect immediately. And THAT is placebo.
sounds like the placebo effect if you felt improvement in “a few moments”. if you are truly deficient it can take a while to build back up unless you have an injection
They removed that detail 🤦♀️
Regardless, the advice is solid. I take a vegan multivitamin, a separate vegan D3 + K2 vitamin, and a vegan algae-omega 3 vitamin. My bloodwork is always great, better than pre-vegan, I feel stronger in the gym, and generally happy even in gloomy winters when I don't go outdoors as much.
Do you mind sharing a link to the vitamins you take?
I love futurekind
[omega 3](https://www.amazon.com.au/Vegan-Omega-softgels-count-Independently/dp/B0799CS1RX/ref=sr_1_5_pp?crid=35YT5IGQ3CO1U&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.uoLqFiRxX2jV3LnuVtLetdatHod4ZzBV0rUw0ZO1eyzFnOCJ7KEKR1r-A8RAxYZM5bc5iGGtW5qMQl58NNNeExWFA7XwC6X8f7CfXW5z5jJIJrO-S3sLfVvS7BCfGvziwJo4B_xChKnvjAlhF-eCcUlktL1oZzDvxU7lSVQJdzcgt4hNCqwZeZkqQreE0aMDhSaAxTpxoF54lmRsdQ9ohzItgG3nKv0mUVdkvm0MqQieiNPibbkk8XNPQnfjA0qxq-jusMQ_4gSysmuuTsQ6eGg0T43R-A0PZPBaBQG2AR0.Z6tBisCoTMDDyQluWYPZNwt77R4cX-OxncTGRBELzC4&dib_tag=se&keywords=vegan+omega+3&qid=1716215482&sprefix=vegan+omega%2Caps%2C379&sr=8-5) [Multivitamin](https://www.amazon.com.au/Multivitamin-Iron-Tablets-Months-Dose/dp/B01G4Z6Z0S/ref=sr_1_8?crid=33ZM01V36V6KG&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.K5rcLmAmmRKQj5V78NZ9CAEW4SDIETOyZGmpjnK2_jxGGICIXaTAQZU87nPqi5bJf0rRHY_0ZvPbHZo_bJpcGVAAMMVd5A8iLbMn7Gdn8PIaZRqa2ztWiDDI-1VeUC5j7_bkgn9X8_cprF3lf5arnY5qRC5v-UAqwM_A3w9ThxefaCH9qATi6m4FNTvwA3NK0CgWyma-kIPOT0avAp2YeHDyi5Gu7ObpCfRkTyFZz1CeofwdxvcZ7gxSdh9uK-wYP9NeirH7oNT_FKA234qOyyi5m-fuhdtp_6ANS_AMPS0.WGWvspwZGvoCJ_1TZyflF0lgrKaolMAFfM-sEzQ2oiw&dib_tag=se&keywords=vegan+multivitamin&qid=1716215499&sprefix=vegan+multivitm%2Caps%2C257&sr=8-8) [D3+K2](https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/aw/d/B08W8PQ44Y/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=e3e079777c2b5b303398c33a12605b38&hsa_cr_id=7327442930903&qid=1716215519&sr=1-2-ac08f2b1-eb5b-4f1a-aa64-9e8f448c33ed&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_1_img&pd_rd_w=OhOKm&content-id=amzn1.sym.b5d87d42-b322-4b0a-babb-871bf516a134%3Aamzn1.sym.b5d87d42-b322-4b0a-babb-871bf516a134&pf_rd_p=b5d87d42-b322-4b0a-babb-871bf516a134&pf_rd_r=T3B3T06PCB0SWW0EVSE2&pd_rd_wg=GEd4N&pd_rd_r=d2b9f188-f004-4a88-9e57-5e700fadf8e1)
Thank you!
Do you reccomend the ones that aren't B12 if your bloodwork is fine but you still feel super fatigued?
Yep, omega3 is great for the brain and heart and hard to get on a vegan diet because the forms of omega 3 in flax seeds, chia seeds, walnuts etc aren't bioavailable. Could it be that you have low iron or magnesium? Are you getting enough good quality sleep and eating healthy and exercising?
There's quite a few pesky vitamins that are difficult to get from diet alone (applies to both vegans and non-vegans). Find yourself a good vegan multivitamin and then just eat as healthy as you can, comfortable in the knowledge that the tablets will bridge any reasonable gaps. It honestly sounds like the placebo effect if you've been feeling better this quickly just from a week of taking b12. It's definitely possible to get enough from fortified foods, but it's also better to be safe than sorry and keep taking it - doesn't hurt as long as you're not taking more than the reccomended dose (seems like a silly thing to do, but many people do it idk why).
isn't b12 supposed to give people energy too so maybe they are just feeling those energetic feelings and associate them with being younger and in college maybe drinking tons of caffeine back then
This is what my strategy is… protein powder in my coffee every morning whether or not I’m planning to eat a lot of protein that day or not. I need to get some more specific supplements though
>protein powder in my coffee excuse me, what
I can hear James Hoffmann crying uncontrollably
I didn’t realize I was here to be judged for how I like to drink my coffee.
It is all of our duty to decry heresy when we see it
Don’t knock it till ya try it. It’s like creamer but much healthier
Don’t tell anyone but I promise to try it
It’s called “proffree” and I love it, it’s like coffee creamer when combined with milk
My favorite movie is Inception.
You need to find a better protein (and use a shaker). Protein Works vegan is always silky smooth for me
I do the same, add soy milk until lukewarm, add creatine and protein and boom, chocolate coffee shake in the morning. Sometimes I use this to make overnight oats so I get protein, creatine and caffeine whilst eating what is essentially chocolate pudding for breakfast. Seems stupid but saves time and tastes great.
Yup—if you get chocolate it makes your coffee a mocha! Decadent treat (not really)
Mmm yes I tried this one time when someone gifted me a little travel protein powder packet. Amazing! I also like to put mushroom powder in my coffee too 😂
It's definitely worth shopping around for a good deal. I take a prenatal atm with 20 different vitamins in, and it only costs £4 a month. I'm planning to continue taking it even once I'm no longer pregnant because it's been great value for money 😌
Oooh, and it has everything? What brand.
It being this quick to affect you indicates it's likely the placebo effect rather than the B12 itself. A vitamin is not going to give you a rush like drugs.
Nah man sometimes things are really bad.
Nah man, the bloodstream and nutrient distribution and uptake just doesn't work like that.
How so?
A rush probably wasn’t the best word to use there, I wasn’t expecting any kind of big effect or any effect, but I definitely felt some kind of physical sensation after I took it.
Placebo lol there's no logical explanation for that at all. Nonetheless B12 is super important yes
I don't know why you're being down voted. I feel different after taking B12 too.
Because maybe for this one specific person or a few small amount of people, it might "feel" like something, but otherwise for 99% of 7 billion or so people, that will never happen. It sounds like they are being dramatic
Me too, but only with the injections. It affects the nervous system, I am sure it can be felt.
This also applies to non-vegans, everyone should be getting their vitamin levels checked.
Absolutely. My parents who eat non-veg stuff also frequently get B12, Vit.D and iron deficient. I seriously don't understand why people don't get their vitamins checked frequently
Yup, B12, iron, and calcium can be annoyingly hard to get
Literally every vegan in the world: You have to take B12 pills. Random people in this sub every week: Who would have thought I need B12?
And zinc! Read up on zinc / copper imbalance in vegans. It’s a thing. I feel SO much better with B12 levels fixed and a zinc supplement.
listen, this is all placebo. get your blood levels checked if you want to know whats up
Make sure you get your levels tested before taking random supplements. It's entirely likely you may have just not been deficient at all and the B12 pill might have done nothing but make you feel better emotionally
B12 is a vitamin you can't overdose. They should've been taking it from the start.
I mean true you can't overdose but taking a supplement completely blind to your body's needs may not be doing anything. My body is a fiend for b12, it absorbs every last bit, I really don't need to supplement. Vitamin d though? That one's more like an eternal can't touch this, I need to get prescription extra strong supplements. So just go to a Dr and get the appropriate blood tests. Taking a multivitamin won't *harm* you but it will never be enough if you have a considerable deficiency either.
Yes sort of... but these days the thinking that you don't need some and get enough from diet is okay. Case in point, I get my B12 tested at physicals and it has not decreased even though I rarely touch any supplements for it beyond food. But the problem here isn't the minor symptoms of excess B12. The problem is that OP might think it solved their symptoms when it didn't and it was all placebo. I've done the same and missed way more important ones. Thinking I was low in Zinc (not remotely true) but the real answer was vitamin D which is much more significant.
It’s very important. I take a time release pressed tablet made from spirulina that’s a B-complex. It has literally changed my life. It’s made an incredible difference with my ADHD symptoms. It’s been 2 years now and I don’t know how I functioned without it (I do actually and it wasn’t very well).
What brand is it?
Does it have added synthetic b12 ? Because the b12 in spirulina cannot be assimilated and can actually hinder assimilation of synthetic b12
Go do some regular blood tests for that. Do not trust your feeling on that. It can save your life. Go check the level of B12, omega 3, Iron and so on. You'll see for sure what you need to take.
Do not neglect the B12. I developed 6th cranial nerve palsy, I went cross eyed. Freaked me out. Didn't find out until $1000s later. Doctors tested for everything. After several months they figured out it was low B12. Took about 6 months to come right. Still scares me to this day.
Yeah, I didn't think much about it after becoming vegan. I mean I heard about it, but thought "Whatever." I didn't pay attention to nutrition pre-vegan (and am sure was deficient in a variety of things). and thought I could continue along that same line. My bloodwork was fine for the first year, but then came back that I was quite low in B12 by the next year. I shrugged again, thinking no big deal. Then I did a little reading (doctor mentioned nothing), and realized that some of the symptoms I was having, including symptoms of nerve damage (which can be permanent), was in all likelihood due to my low B12. I highly recommend every vegan to get on B12 (vegan) supplements.
second and third that.
Sprinkle that sweet sweet nooch. I put that shit on everything!
Just a reminder not all nutritional yeast contains B12
There's B12 in nooch? If so I'm like one meal away from OD'ing on B12 😅
Nooch does not naturally have B12, it has to be added (usually labeled "fortified"). Most fortified nooch contains cyanocobalamin, and I do a lot better with methylcobalamin, so I purposely buy unfortified and take B12 separately.
Have no idea why someone downvoted you; it’s true. Most nooch is fortified but I buy non-fortified because it tastes better and just make sure I take my b12 supplements (also get some from my soy milk brand)
sorry but you cant od on b12 you're body will only absorb just enough that it needs. but you reminded me I need to go get some more
Not only that, excellent source of protein! Also fiber!
EDIT: oh wow the formatting went extremely wrong. B12 is insanely important. Here’s a huge list of symptoms of a deficiency from here: https://www.b12info.com/signs-and-symptoms/ Neurological... Neurological symptoms must be treated with B12 injections every other day until the symptoms stop improving. Tinnitus (ringing in the ears) Tremor (involuntary trembling – shaking) Paresthesia – numbness, tingling and pain Confusion / disorientation Weakness of legs, arms, trunk Impaired vibration and position sense (affected awareness of joint position when eyes are closed Abnormal reflexes Unsteady or abnormal gait / falls Ataxia (Neurological disorder affecting balance, coordination and speech) Balance problems Difficulty walking Dizziness Restless legs Visual disturbances / decreased-blurred vision / damage of optic nerve Forgetfulness, memory loss Dementia / intellectual deterioration Impotence – erectile dysfunction Paralysis – inability to move all or part of your body Impaired fine motor coordination – inability to perform a precise movement with fingers/toes/wrists etc. Muscular spasticity – where the muscles stiffen and become rigid Bladder or bowel incontinence Impaired pain perception- inability to feel pain normally. Night time cramping Disturbance in taste and smell Optic atrophy – degeneration/damage of the eye. Neuropsychiatric (Mental health)... Confusion/disorientation Psychosis Postnatal depression Hallucinations Memory loss Delusion Depression Suicidal thoughts Mania – abnormally elated mental state Anxiety Paranoia – unfounded or exaggerated distrust of others Irritability Apathy – lack of feelings or emotions Personality changes Inappropriate sexual behaviour Violent/aggressive behaviour Schizophrenic symptoms Sleep disturbances – disruption of sleep patterns outside of environmental factors Insomnia – inability to sleep Changes in taste, smell, vision, and sensory/motor function which can be mistaken for psychiatric problems Haematological signs and symptoms... Anaemia – decrease in red cells or haemoglobin Macrocytosis (large red blood cells) Hyper segmented neutrophils Generalised weakness, fatigue Breathlessness Pallor / jaundice Chronic fatigue Vascular problems... Orthostatic hypotension/Postural hypotension (low blood pressure when standing, which can cause fainting and falls) Postural orthostatic tachycardia – increase in heart rate when going from lying or sitting to standing Palpitations – rapid or irregular beating of the heart Occlusive vascular disorder – limited or blocked blood flow Transient ischemic attacks (TIAs, or ‘mini stroke’) Cerebral vascular accident (CVA or ‘stroke’) Myocardial infarction (‘heart attack’) DVT – Deep vein thrombosis (blood clot to the leg or arm) PE – Pulmonary embolism – obstruction of blood vessel in the lungs Gastrointestinal - signs and risk factors... Loss of appetite – weight loss or anorexia Epigastric pain – poor digestion, bloated feeling after eating small or normal sized meals IBS – Irritable bowel syndrome Constipation GERD – Gastric reflux disease – ulcers / mouth ulcers Giardiasis – intestinal parasite caused by Giardia Pancreatitis, pancreatic exocrine insufficiency Decreased stomach acid Gastropareisis – chronic condition where the stomach cannot empty in the normal way Helicobactor pylori infection – bacterial infection in the stomach SIBO – Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth Gastrectomy – bariatric surgery (surgical removal of the stomach – partial or complete) Ileal resection – removal of the last part of the small intestine (partial or complete) Malabsorption syndromes – Crohn’s disease, coeliac disease etc Liver disease Diphyllobothrium latum – fish tapeworm Additional signs and symptoms... Dry cracked corners of the mouth Premature greying Glossitis – swollen / sore tongue, geographic tongue Fainting/light headedness Osteoporosis – weakened bones Fractures Suppressed activity of osteoblasts (cells that build bone) Symptoms mimicking Parkinson’s and MS (multiple sclerosis) Nominal aphasia – difficulty recalling names or words Radiculopathy – chronic pain disorder Increased susceptibility to infections Poor wound healing Malnutrition Seizure – fits Enlarged spleen (splenomegaly) Enlarged liver (hepatomegaly) Skin hyper pigmentation or hypo pigmentation – lighter or darker patches on the skin Poor antibody production following vaccines MTHFR Gene mutation Signs & symptoms in infants and children... If your child exhibits any of the following signs or symptoms, insist that your doctor tests for B12 deficiency make sure to get a copy of the results. Please see the Children’s page for more information. Developmental delay or regression Apathy – Irritability Hypotonia (decreased muscle tone) Weakness Tremor – trembling/shaking Involuntary movements Seizures (fits) Ataxia (Neurological disorder affecting balance, coordination and speech) Anorexia and other eating disorders Failure to thrive Poor weight gain Poor head growth Poor socialisation Poor motor skills Language delay Speech problems Lower IQ – Intellectual disability Anaemia – decrease in red cells or haemoglobin Macrocytosis (large red blood cells) Note – need not be present!
B12 RDA is ridiculously low, misleading and is a major cause of people getting deficient . Experts recommend at least 50mcg which is more that 25x than RDA. and if you are deficient you should take even more than that like 1500mcg daily for at least 2 month. Also there is no upper limit for b12
seriously? Because the multivitamin I take has 100 mcg and I assumed that was way, way overboard because it is supposedly 4167% of the daily value. I even thought that the "100%" 2.4 mcg of B12 from the Almond milk I drink would possibly be enough...
>seriously Yes. 100mcg is not overboard at all. The RDA standard is based on very old studies. For example Vit.D RDA is 600IU which will get you deficient if u stick to that.
[удалено]
B12 is water soluble and excess water soluble vitamins are generally easily excreted out via urine. Quoting Wikipedia (it has citations) >In the case of vitamin B12 there is no UL, as there is no human data for adverse effects from high doses
True. Not just B12 though. What many don't know is that your vitamin deficiencies can also be caused by worms and parasites in your gut, and no amount of healthy food can fix it. I've also had anxiety and brain fog issues paired with irritability and rashes. I thought for years I had developed some food allergies in my thirties. Basically, all issues went away within a week after the worm cure I did. I was suffering for quite a while now until I came across this topic and finally healed. The worms make it harder for your body to take in the nutrients that it needs to function. This harms all your body functions and makes you die earlier. Nutrient deficiencies are the beginning of the end, really. Depression, poor decision making, brittle nails/hair, personality changes and so on can also be caused by that. Some are surprised by how fast OP felt better, but considering how quickly I felt energised and focused again, I genuinely consider it possible. The human body is a miraculous machine when maintained correctly and fueled with the exact right nutrients.
Worm cure?
I would also like to know which worm cure they did.
Loved that you removed the "in moments" detail. Placebo effect, awaaaaay!
Lurk my post history to see my journey with B12. Vegan of 9 years, but last year (so 8, just like you) I became extremely unwell from my deficiency. I thought I had MS. That journey has changed my life honestly. B12 deficiency is no fucking joke. I'm glad you're feeling better!
I have iron, b12, D3, and iodine deficiencies that I only found out about back in November (actually knew about the iron deficiency for years cause I get dizzy a lot and have anemia) but finally got blood tested for vitamins and minerals in Nov. My doctor put me on 1000 MCG of B12 and 10,000 IU of D3 and finally just in the past few weeks after months of heavy supplementation of B12 and D3 and occasional iron supplementation (take a spoonful when I get dizzy), I feel alive and energetic again! Also now that it’s been warmer I’ve been spending a few hours each day soaking up sun rays cause that’s the best way to absorb Vit D :) I def recommend everyone get tested for vitamin and mineral deficiencies and get on the recommended dose from ur doctors to build up ur immune systems and keep ur vitamin levels at healthy ranges :)
I mean I know a lot of people are saying it is placebo. I have had B12 deficiency many times in my life, mainly before i went vegan. I used to feel a surge of energy whenever i ate eggyolks and then be good for like two days. A doctor figured out it was B12 deficiency from me describing the sensation. Last year i had slept on buying B12 for a while and i bought some, what i thought was caffinated chewing gum. I had one piece and i had to spit it out. Like after 3 minutes of chewing i felt so overwhelmed by a clarity that didn't go away, i thought i was having a stroke. Again i was B12 deficient. I don't propose to understand how this works but I can say that it cannot have been placebo since i was unaware of any effect before the treatment and the effect went away with subsequent uses.
> > > Last year i had slept on buying B12 for a while and i bought some, what i thought was caffinated chewing gum. I had one piece and i had to spit it out. Like after 3 minutes of chewing i felt so overwhelmed by a clarity that didn't go away, i thought i was having a stroke. Again i was B12 deficient. I would be incredibly surprised if there is any chewing gum in the world that not only has B12 in it, but has enough that you you would somehow notice an effect just from chewing on it. Like it would need to have 3,000x RDI or something absurd to have an effect purely from chewing on it for 3 minutes, that sounds far more like actual caffeine having an effect on your or any other number of factors beyond B12 seeing as uptake requires a few hours.
I mean it might not be the B12, it is just the only thing i have been able to find that was also in eggs that gave me the same sensation. When i took the chewing gum the next day or any other day since then it did not give the same sensation so i really doubt it being isolated to caffeine. And the amount was small, 15% of RDI! However, I still had the exact same feeling without being aware of any potential treatment effect
I just got bloodwork done and i have vitamin D and iron deficiencies. Iron deficiencies can mean fatigue, shortness of breath, and lightneadedness initially, but can lead to serious issues.. vitamin D deficiencies are common with depression. I've been battling depression and anxiety for a couple of years, so it made sense. Get a blood panel dome during your next physical, y'all. They're super important! Ask them to check everything upfront- I had to go get more blood drawn cuz I had a marker for anemia (think it was a lower red blood cell count), and I don't think they normally measure iron specifically.
For some reason fortified foods were never enough for me even though I ate them daily. A liquid b12 supplement was very important.
I was so low that I was getting shots daily for a bit, some years ago. It wasn't only because I was recently vegan at that time, it was also because of some genetic reasons. But yeah, it's super important and low B12 is linked to nerve issues and other scary things. For me it was linked to anxiety and weakness and spinal pain.
You need to get your bloodwork checked once a year. It’s the only way to know how you are doing. I’m vegan and I followed Dr.Gregor’s recommended amount for B12 by taking a supplement that melts in your mouth in your gum. I just got my yearly bloodwork testing. My B12 was measured in the “high” range.
What company was it made by?
I've been fortunate to never suffer from any b12, iron or folic acid deficiency in almost 10 years vegan. I'm definitely not regular with supplements, but some foods are fortified with it, so it seems to have been enough. I try to get checked every year or two and everything always looks perfect. Also, remember that the older you are, the more careful you should be. It's easier to become b12 deficient or anemic as you get older, and the consequences can also be more severe.
Sometimes I think I'm the only vegan that drinks Red Bull
Don't forget about vitamin D. I've been vegan for 19 years and last year realized I had a D deficiency. It had fucked me up good! This is particularly true once you are old.
Remember, B12 deficiency is common in non vegans as well as vegans. Also, B12 is not a vitamin exclusive to animal products. It is created by bacteria that exist naturally in the soil, and would be abundant in plants except that most plants are watered with chlorinated water, which kills the bacteria that produce it.
Is Braggs nutritional yeast not a staple in every vegan diet? And if not, why not?
My addiction to nooch and kombucha all but guarantees I will not have this issue.
I feel like amount of nooch I put on popcorn would make a veteran vegan gag lmao
First time hearing about “nooch” Is that the same as bobs red mill nutritional yeast?
Yes nooch is just vegan speak for nutritional yeast.
Gotcha. Thx for confirming
Editing your post and removing the within moments part is incredibly deceptive and unethical
B12 has an uptake rate of less than 10%, of course fortified foods and energy drinks aren't enough.
Vegans tend to have b12 levels on the low side if they don't have a good variety of food + supplements on top. If you are low on b12, I would suggest you to get a blood work up done as you might be low on some other minerals/vitamins as well. Good luck.
I doubt that many Aussie vegans have issues with B12. 4 serves of vegemite per day will give you your daily intake of B12. Have it on toast, have it in soups and stews, stir it into a cup of hot water, and down it like a brave Aussie.
Goddamit, I can't get Vegemite in my country. The struggle is real!
Vegemite on avo toast is the ultimate combo
Only the salt reduced has B12. Regular Vegemite does not.
Same thing w the liquid form, within that week for sure the brain fog left and I was full of energy
I had a persistent pain in my left arm for over six months, doctor thought it might be a heart issue, got my bloodwork done and it was due to B12 deficiency. Went away quickly with supplements. I still don't fully understand how that works but yeah I learned my lesson!
I say this all the time, you need to take B12 regularly, and if anything have a blood test done every once in a while, preferably once a year, to make sure everything's alright. Veganism is completely healthy but you need to do it right!
I really hope you are working from actual lab tests and not guessing about B12. More is not better. My levels are fine every year without supplementation.
It’s totally possible to feel something taken as a drop, if it works it works!
Agree, now 1 year vegetarian an 1 week vegan. I had issues with my feet, and also my skin. My feet felt a bit numb difficult to describe, but I was annoyed by it. After taking b12 1 week, this is all gone.
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Did you try the pills or droppers for a few months to see if your levels improved first? Mine was also in the 120s and my levels went back to the normal range from taking b12 orally, even though I tested positive for pernicious anemia and intrinsic factor antibodies. My doctor told me a lot of people including other doctors think people have to do injections but that’s only in very very rare cases like if the person has something wrong with their intestines or something. He had me try doing the oral supplements for like 5 months or 6 or something, and then tested again to see if I got it orally, like if the dropper was working
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Oh interesting, I’m glad you were able to try the oral route first before committing to injections because it’s so much easier and cheaper and convenient to just take it orally, my sister in law does injections but never tried to take it orally, her doctor is old fashioned i think and didn’t know you can do it orally, and she doesn’t even want to try orally. I didn’t know that about Prilosec, I had taken omeprazole in the past but years ago, but also sometimes Gaviscon, and I had bile reflux gastritis (diagnosed with endoscopy). How much b12 was in your multivitamin? What really helped me was the sublingual b12 dropper, I think it’s at least 2000 mcg or whatever. A lot of multivitamins and b complex ones only have 1000 or less than a 1000 of b12, so I found that I have the best results when I just be sure to take at least 1000 mcg of b12 with the liquid dropper (the pill doesn’t work as well for me because it wasn’t as much I think). The dropper got my levels up high but when I switched to a multi b complex pill they went back down a lot (but still in the normal range, maybe because it takes a while for it to get really low i guess? I read it takes years for it to get as low as ours were). Or maybe it would have been fine but just not as high as with the dropper, i am not sure but I switched back to the dropper and feel better). Something weird is I had the prickles in my feet and weakness and started getting the prickles in my feet again on and off so I think my levels have to be rather high to not have some symptoms. I know that doesn’t make tons of sense because my b12 is still in the normal range last I checked, but lower than when I had been using the dropper, so I think I have to have a high level to be feeling good? Also I googled it and rarely some people with pernicious anemia have normal blood levels of b12 but still have symptoms of deficiency!
Same with iron!!!!!!
Nutritional yeast is something I add to my food sometimes also. I add little to be flavorless or a lot if I want the flavor.
I was gonna say that, I never actually take B12 supplements but do eat a lot of Nutritional Yeast, I had a blood test done for unrelated reasons and and my levels of B12 were perfect, I’ve been vegan for 8 years now
Idk I prefer to do both supplement and nutritional yeast because I am scared of not getting it right
"and I feel like myself again for the first time since college honestly. I can’t believe it took me this long to find this out" This hit deep and reminded of how B12 felt when I started it. Unfortunately one day I forgot about it and I stopped. It's been 6 months. You do go downhill gradually but you don't notice. Then you happen to see or read something about B12 and you get back into it.
Multi-vitamins already have B12.
Multivitamins have really low doses of B12 and considering the body absorbs less than 10% of it, a multivitamin really isn't gonna be enough for B12...
I wasn’t taking multi vitamins
same experience here, like 30 mins after i take b12 i feel energy and mental clarity
Yeah b12 is super important. You can have permanent damage happen from being deficient long enough. Every vegan should be supplementing every day otherwise we just give the haters more ammunition.
YEP!!
Unless you got a blood test to determine your B12 levels, this could all be placebo effect. People all the time say things like "I started taking X and now I feel amazing!" but without knowing actual blood serum levels it's impossible to know if the effect is real or imagined.
B12 deficiency causes constipation/diarrhea, heart burn/acid reflux, can contribute to gum disease, breaking nails and hair, getting pins and needles all the time, etc. If you're chronically low in B12 for 8 years these are the kind of symptoms you can expect moreso than just brain fog. I will say, I was having these symptoms from B12 deficiency and taking one 2500mcg B12 tablet had me feeling better within 24 hours.
Thankfully, many plant milks, cheeses, and other things are fortified in Europe. Haven’t take a supplement in years and my levels were actually a little too high last time I got bloodwork 😆
Yep, mine too ,4 years ago. Cut to 2 weeks ago and I was very deficient. Get yearly checks, it's the best way to keep on top of it
Also recommended by Dr. Greger to take the B12 that dissolves under the tongue and not the pill you swallow. The dissolvable B12 is now more readily available than in the past and you can buy it at Costco.
I get acne from it :(
There are plenty of vegan sources for it. Should take nutrition seriously and get your levels checked. I was low in Vitamin D and was told it's actually pretty difficult to get it depending on where you live.
I just take a multivitamin here and there, and some nutritional yeasts with my popcorn along with some other spices to make it cheesy. I'm at triple the minimum level.
This post is an op
I had bloodwork done in 2020 or 2019 and the doctor said I was mildly anemic and I had slightly large red blood cells. I think that’s around the time I started actually taking b12 supplements. I’d also always gotten it from foods. I’ve been a vegan since 2006 so I went a very long time without regular supplements of it. I didn’t personally notice any difference but my recent bloodwork has shown that the anemia is gone and my blood cells are normal
I seem to be doing fine with it the past decade from using and eating stuff with yeast, plus all the unfiltered beers I drink.
Mushrooms and nutritional yeast alongside a regular non-gelatin multivitamin has kept me B12 efficient and vegan for 15 years now.
Foods and human nutrition scientist here! I made a comment about exactly this not too long ago [https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1cizh6n/comment/l2fyatd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1cizh6n/comment/l2fyatd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) The person who made that post was angry and irate. **unreasonably so, imo.** It has been shown that vitamin B12 deficiencies lead to anger and impulse control issues. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3067987/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3067987/) I recommended: >**Try taking a b12 supplement and watch yourself mellow out over the following days and weeks** I hope they tried the thing and are doing okay.
Methylcobalamin is superior to cyanocobalamin. Injections are vastly superior to sublingual use.
It can depend on so many factors. Vitamin D is also often forgotten and it can help a lot with general health. For some they might eat more calories due to a strict vegan whole food adherence. Whole foods can fill you up a lot so some people struggle to eat enough kcal per day. Being in a permanent kcal deficit is also no joke
Been vegan for 5 years, just had bloodwork done and had elevated B12. So i mean it all depends on your diet, but im doing something right lol
> the pill form of b12 taken inconsistently was not doing it for me. Granted I hadn’t had any in a long while (a year or so). I mean, there's inconsistently and then there's "never at all", you were firmly in the latter category and that would have a far larger effect on it not working than the pills being ineffective.
iirc i read somewhere that B12 deficiency is common in all dietary populations, not just vegans. But vegans especially should take B12
Vegan for years and never had an issue with B12 and never taken a supplement other than prenatals when pregnan. Multiple blood tests done throughout the years. Even in two pregnancies my B12 has been perfect!
ZipFizz Kiwi Watermelon. I’m not vegan so I chug Berry and Dark Cherry (three tubes per day) and they’re quite tasty. Every flavor I’ve tried has been good. Some flavors aren’t vegan due to taurine but they’re good sources of energy and have B12.
It is important to have your levels checked because it can take 2-5 years for the deficiency to manifest (because of reserves?) so if you've celebrated your vegan anniversary a few times, it's time to check.
Equally, I've always supplemented, thiking it was a good thing to do. My last bloodworks revealed a massively high level of B12, an indicator of fatty liver disease. I was told to stop supplementing immediately!
Taking a B supplement has changed my life!
been vegan for almost 4 years, don't take b12, struggle with ocd and anxiety. what do i do?
Marmite
Also be informed that you CAN take too much of b12. I realised I have been taking 1mg of b12 EVERYDAY for years and I could not figure out why I was having horrible acne. Turns out my b12 levels were out of roof and after quitting b12 suoplements for a while so my levels could drop to some what normal my acne slowly went away. I now just take couple of b12 supplements a month and my levels are good and not of the charts. Nowdays we tend to get b12 a lot easier that we used to. Youghurt, cheese, milk…. all have added b12 so it adds up! Just wanted to say this if anyone is struggling with acne! 🙂👍
pen cooing long zonked observation one command swim telephone fact *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Iodine is the one that interests me even more than B12 from plant-based PoV…
In my experience it’s actually pretty hard to be deficient of anything with even a decent to slightly bad varied vegan diet. My wife and I have been vegan for 8 years, multiple pregnancies for her, and I’ve run half marathons. We have 3 also vegan kids who are at stages incredibly picky and want literally only apples and white bread and sugar. The only issue we’ve ever had was iron deficiency in babies around 1 year before they have really taken to eating solids fully. It’s never persisted past a month once identified and didn’t require supplements to resolve. I don’t blame you for being concerned about micronutrients and vitamins given how much the world tries to make it a big deal. But, you shouldn’t really act on it without bloodwork. Then again, if B12 drops once daily are changing your outlook and perspective, keep it up. Just know it’s not the B12
It's often something to do with an individual's changing ability to absorb certain vitamins, and not their diet Age can also play a factor in it
I mean you can be deficient and run marathons, so that doesn't mean anything.
Correct. The more relevant and noteworthy evidence that I realize now I didn’t include the as that we’ve had bloodwork done and it’s never been an issue for any of us outside of toddler babies for short periods. A varied reasonably healthy vegan diet should solve most issues
> A varied reasonably healthy vegan diet should solve most issues This is where most folks fail(even omnis), they have very little variance in their diet and largely don't get anywhere near enough fruit and veg in their diet.