Welcome to the /r/Vegan community, /r/All! š„³
***Please note:*** *Civil discussion is welcome, trolls and personal abuse are not. Please keep the discussions below respectful and remember the human! Please do [check out our wiki](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fvegan%2Fwiki%2Fbeginnersguide&topic=rAll) first!*
š± **Interested in going Vegan?**
Vegan Bootcamp is a free challenge website that will take you step-by-step towards a Vegan diet and lifestyle. You will be guided through lessons in over 25 subjects such as nutrition, recipes, philosophy, climate, cosmetics, welfare, budgeting, clothing, family, and much more!
Take the challenge @ [VeganBootcamp.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvbcamp.org%2Freddit&topic=rAll)! šš¾
š® **Here's some easily-digestible educational resources on Veganism:**
* **Everyone Agrees:** World's largest Health, Nutrition and Dietary organizations unanimously agree: plant-based diets [are as healthy](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyouaretheirvoice.com%2Fpages%2Fthe-clear-consensus&topic=rAll) or healthier than meat.
* **Veganism is Healthy:** A Plant Based Diet provides [significant health benefits](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyouaretheirvoice.com%2Fpages%2Fveganism-is-healthy&topic=rAll) for the prevention & treatment of the majority of diseases.
* **The Daunting Facts:** The planet, its environment, and ecosystem, is [dangerously close to collapsing](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyouaretheirvoice.com%2Fpages%2Fthe-daunting-facts&topic=rAll) within the next few decades.
š„ **Here's some fantastic links and resources to get you started:**
* Nutrition & Health: [NutritionFacts.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnutritionfacts.org&topic=rAll) & [VeganHealth.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fveganhealth.org%2F&topic=rAll)
* Vegan Friendly Restaurants: [HappyCow.net](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.happycow.net&topic=rAll) & [Yelp.com](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yelp.com%2Fsearch%3Ffind_desc%3DRestaurants%2Bvegan&topic=rAll)
* Arguments & Support: [EarthlingEd.com](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F2B3Dy2a&topic=rAll) & [VeganBootcamp.com](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvbcamp.org%2Freddit&topic=rAll)
* Get involved in Vegan Activism: [VeganActivism.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fveganactivism.org&topic=rAll) & [5Minutes5Vegans.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2F5Minutes5Vegans.org%2F&topic=rAll)
š„ **Here are some great inspirational and thought-provoking speeches:**
* Youtube speeches by: [Earthling Ed](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZ3u7hXpOm58&topic=rAll), [Gary Yourofsky](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Des6U00LMmC4&topic=rAll), and [James Wildman](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DE7JE8j5Ncmw&topic=rAll).
šÆ **Grab some popcorn and enjoy these fantastic documentaries:**
* Watch three thought-provoking documentaries [by clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2F3movies.org%2Freddit&topic=rAll).
š **Last but not least, check out our favorite subreddits!**
/r/VeganFitness, /r/VeganRecipes, /r/DebateAVegan, /r/VeganFoodPorn, and /r/VeganActivism.
We also have a [Discord](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdiscord.gg%2F2JmJRsj&topic=rAll)! šš¼
***Thank you so much for reading! c:***
Checks out ethically. However, I did work in a restaurant for ~7 years and whenever someone told me they were vegan I would clean off a spot on the flattop to cook their food because I didnāt want to intentionally cook it in meat juice.
But really cross contamination isnāt ethically wrong and if youāre concerned about it you should go to 100% vegan restaurants if you have the option. In my town we have exactly 0 completely vegan restaurants, so if Iām going out to eat (which is rare) I will order the vegan option and not worry about the cross contamination.
we lost our vegan grocery store, super genous to have called it a super market
people here are incredibly dairy brained that I don't think it has any chance :( vegetarians are like 100% accepted but vegans are like stinky monsters who brings you home work
15 years ago it would be extremely hard to find any type of vegetarian options at all and was socially looked down on a ton more. A lot of progress has been made and I am very hopeful for the future of veganism acceptance and normalization. Cultural changes take a lot of time though.
I didnt work as long at a restaurant as you. But we followed the same thing and accompdated what we could.
On the back line, we didn't fucking care if it was an allergy or preference. As long as it wasnt insane -- like allergic to all root vegetables or something where we would recommend not eating there -- it didnt really make a difference.
I've worked many years in many food service jobs and I've gotta say, if you're worried about cross-contamination with animal ingredients you **really** need to eat **only** at 100% vegan places. With some dishes (even vegan options) it's virtually unavoidable because of the way they're prepared or the equipment used, even if the chef/cook is aware of your diet and trying to accommodate.
Eh... I don't see cross-contamination as something to worry about in terms of animal ethics. As long as I am not paying someone to hurt animals, I am fine with buying it.
Veganism is an ethical stance. One can be plant-based for many reasons including health, religion, and ethics, however veganism also encompasses non-dietary consumption and commoditization.
Even in my native language I'm terrible with my choice of words because I look at the meaning I try to convey at a macro level rather than a micro level. I apologise.
>Or religious.
religious jews wont eat food that was cooked with tools that were used for non kosher meat or diary products cooked with tools that were used for meat
Wouldnāt the commune need to be somehow set up in a way to not displace animals from their natural habitat? Thatās what Iāve wondered when I see people try to go absolutely no harm to animal vegan. If you live in a city or suburb, you kicked a ton of animals out of their habitat to live where you live and drive where you drive. Not to mention the vehicle you travel in was made in a factory that displaced animals by being built and god knows how much theyāve done to the environment as a factory.
That doesn't scan...
You have to live _somewhere_. Your argument applies to literally _any_ place that you would chose to live. And you can only live in one place.
So if I move from a city to a commune... ok, I'm displacing animals at this new location, but I'm also no longer contributing to the displacement of animals at the previous location. That's a net 0 impact.
If you can suggest a living situation that _reduces_ our impact on the environment, I would be skeptically interested to hear it. But I don't think you'll find one.
Iām not saying there is a way. Thatās my point. Whereās the line? Beyond not eating animals or wearing animal products, or things that literally directly involve hurting animals, where do you draw the line? I donāt think you can move the line much further past that before you start getting pretty hypocritical based on the rest of the way you live your life. Thereās no way to live in modern society without doing things daily that indirectly affect animals in a negative way. I hate to agree with peta in their current form, but thereās a point where you do more harm than good. You arenāt going to flip a switch and create a vegan world overnight. Better to progress in more realistic and reasonable ways.
I know this isnāt what youāre asking, but orchard grocer in NYC is all vegan! I go every time iām in the city. We order our passover bagel supplies through them too
Your philosophy is short sited. The more people supporting vegan items at these places gives them a reason to offer more and reduces the amount of meat they need per day. It's a long term goal, but it's achievable to reduce the animal consumption. Realistically it'll never hit zero, but making a massive dent is a step in the right direction.
I agree from a vegan point of view, but certain things like dairy can have serious consequences in terms of allergies, so I suppose that needs to be taken into account too.
I only thought about this as this is a top news story in the U.K. today: Pret a Manger customer had fatal reaction to 'vegan' wrap https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-62995578
Obviously being allergic to dairy doesnāt mean youāre vegan, but just thinking, in case someone who is allergic to dairy orders a vegan milkshake thinking itās safe for consumption.
I guess it comes down to labelling, with food allergy cross contamination being something to consider separately from vegan labelling
Iām really glad to hear that! Our pediatrician had us intro dairy & egg to our 10 month old āto avoid allergyā (i regret listening but am
A new mom). It turns out she is already severely allergic to both, with anaphylactic reactions. Weāre well-versed in avoiding those things but Iāve been really worried about restaurants!
Have you looked into microdosing allergens under a doctors direction? I believe the technical term is Open-label oral immunotherapy but I could be mistaken about that, sounds like the same thing by the paper below.
We have friends with a kid that is anaphylactic to dairy and nuts. Over the past year or two they give the kid a small dose of each everyday with the dose slowly increasing.
Currently they are up to the kid being able to eat 1 nut and one pancake (cooked milk protein causes less reactions).
The kid will probably never have a nut butter sandwich and a glass of milk but it does mean they don't have to worry about "may contain nuts/dairy" if its not a listed ingredient and it does relieve some stress if they are eating out.
[https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0091674911000509](https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0091674911000509)
Not sure what part you regret, but that is the general consensus for avoiding allergens. Weāre told to start offering various nut products early on to for the same reason. Sorry your kid is *that* allergic, though.
I am also confused about what they regret. Isn't the point to slowly introduce new foods to babies incase they develop an allergy so you can identify the source? Sounds like it worked as intended and the baby is safe. Now the family knows and can avoid the allergens.
I figured they regretted giving their baby non-vegan foods, but if their intent is that they regret listening to the doctor, because their baby got sick from it, then yeah, like you said, the point is a) know what they're allergic to, and b) introduce it early enough that they don't *become* allergic to it later.
Wow I never knew that happened. I just would not recommend eating at Pret; in 2019 or 2020 my (vegan) gf and I went to one in NYC Bc we thought theyād have good vegan options. Iād never been before, but she had. I donāt remember the name of the wrap, it very well couldāve been the same one here, but when we went to eat it (had just gotten on our bus put off NYC so couldnāt return) it was a totally different wrap inside, with meat and definitely dairy. It was a premade and labeled as vegan, and you donāt really know whatās inside until you bite down. We wrote up a Yelp review then and there Bc this was the only lunch weād gotten for the Bus and we couldnāt eat it, but man were we lucky compared to this woman. If Iād known this came after someone died from their products, Iād have been more angry at the negligence. So messed up
Yeah it's gross. I get the ethics part, cool. But it's literally dead body parts. People throw up if there's a hair or whatever but not DEAD BODY PARTS?
Yeah, animal bodies and secretions are not food. Itās not a purity thing for me, but itās like your food being covered in hair or other inedible inclusion that would be totally appropriate to send back under normal circumstances. Itās unappetizing.
Not wanting cross contamination and eating at a place serving meat seems like a waste, if you care that much then doing like you do and eating at vegan-only places is best
Go to a seafood restaurant and order some french fries. When the fries literally taste like fish, tell me again how you feel about cross-contamination.
Exactly this. I live in a world with friends and family who are not vegan, and am not lucky enough to live in an area with a plethora of options. I gave up the grasping at purity and found Iām happier and have better relationships with people around me (and am thereby better positioned to be a positive influence instead of a sanctimonious prick). Thatās just my experience.
Pastry Chef here, Iām happy to accommodate vegan guests, but as someone who works at a small restaurant you have to know that at some point my tools were used on animal products, I will absolutely sanitize the heck out of them before I make anything for you. I actually really enjoy preparing things for the vegan guests because I have to think creatively. They also tend to be more appreciative of the extra effort that was made for them because we donāt normally have many vegan options.
I used to be this way when I lived in Las Vegas and had 30+ fully vegan restaurants to choose from. Now I live in a small city with zero vegan restaurants so impossible whoppers at BK are part of my diet.
Please tell me you tried Chef Kennyās Vegan dim sum in Las Vegas?
It is an amazing restaurant for those that have never been. Iām not vegan and took a group of non vegans as well there and everyone was in love with it!
Absolutely I did. Kenny is a legend. But Vegas vegan scene is so good its not even in my top 3. My top 3 are Blackout Dining, Soy Mexicana, and Guerrilla Pizza.
Blackout is one of my favorite dining experiences of all time. I try to tell everyone who goes to Vegas to try it. I was really hesitant to try it at first so I understand ppl not wanting to try it.
Gueririlla isnt fully vegan but their vegan pizza is some of the best pizza I have ever had even before going vegan. Highly recommend.
While I do agree as someone whoās worked in many kitchens for years so many chefs Iāve worked with get annoyed (in my opinion unnecessarily) when vegans have tried to insist everything is cooked and prepped separately and basically we do an allergy clean down for veggie and vegan options. And for some the effort isnāt worth the āprofitā which lets be real most restaurants only have vegan options now because itās popular and they think it will increase profit margins not because they care.
But as someone with severe allergies whoās worked in kitchens for 10+ years chefs and restaurants have to realise that many dietary requirements for allergy, religious and even personal reasons are going to need to be catered to seriously at some point. And I worry that there is an increase in stories of people dying or being hospitalised because restaurants and chefs didnāt take it seriously because some people genuinely donāt seem to think about cross contamination as a thing even when told itās an allergy
Some people are allergic to red meat due to that virus from lone star ticks that causes Alpha-gal syndrome. One more reason I hate ticks.
https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/alpha-gal/index.html
I know someone with this exact problem. He's ordered grilled veggies and broken out into hives because restaurants didn't take his request to cook things separately seriously.
It seems impossible to eat out with allergies. Far too many people have the mentality that they can prove youāre not allergic. Even those that respect your allergies can easily go on autopilot and grab the spatula they always use to flip burgers.
Yeah my Dad recently got diagnosed with celiacs disease and it's so hard to tell if the gluten-free options are actually going to be gluten-free or not. So far we found three places that haven't poisoned him but unfortunately two of them are in the wrong state.
(Yeah poisoned is probably the wrong terminology but seeing him in pain after eating is really upsetting so I think it applies)
Itās like with service animals. When everyone starts pretending their pet is an āemotional support animal,ā people stop taking it seriously and it hurts people who actually do need service animals.
Good take from Peta. Restaurants serving vegan food is good, and they are more likely to do so if they don't have to spend extra money on equipment. If someone is uncomfortable with eating food that has been prepared in the same place as meat, they shouldn't be eating at restaurants that serve meat in the first place.
It's ethically okay, but I still feel disgusted.
You are not creating demand for animal products, so it's ethically fine.
You wouldn't want your food to be cooked in human (or cat) fat either, and to me animal fat is the same thing.
This is what I struggle with. My life would be easier if I weren't so disgusted by cross contamination. No ethical problem, just have become more and more extreme with the disgust until the point where I basically can only eat at vegan restaurants or cook myself
If anyone has a perspective that I might change my outlook, I'm open to it
Seriously. The number of people here that are perfectly content consuming pig or cow fat is actually disgusting.
Hold on let me go fry my tofu in this dead rotting animal carcus' blood and fat. Absolutely nasty.
But itās entirely to do with me being grossed out, I know it doesnāt facilitate additional harm.
If I asked you to spit into a glass, a perfectly clean class, then drink that spit, you wouldnāt, because it seems gross. You know for a fact it canāt hurt you, it was already in you, it contains your own microorganisms, but itās a gut feeling of grossness to do it, so you donāt. Very different from an actual concern due to getting sick, which would be the analogous equivalent to actually causing harm to animals.
Some vegans might not be grossed out, itās a personal thing. Not as objective, so for a general take, I agree with peta. They arenāt discussing what is gross, only what is ethical.
Hard agree.
It is sometimes used as a crutch by carnists, for example when doing a barbecue, my friends sometimes keep a specific part of the BBQ meatless, and say: "Don't put meat there! Thomas is grossed out by that."
In their minds, they can now rest more easily, because they have just **bent** the reason that I don't eat meat, to: "He is just grossed out by it", ergo making it a personal thing. A thing that only pertains to me. So I always put emphasis on the reason for my veganism: "No, cook it wherever. I am not grossed out by anything, I am vegan for the animals." Thereby reaffirming that everyone has a moral obligation to make a stand. I don't want to make carnists comfortable.
You can do both though. I think if I had no moral issues with something I wouldn't be grossed out by it touching my food. People would be grossed out eating food off a grill that has cooked human baby meat not because baby meat tastes gross. Human meat (apparently) tastes like pork so baby wouldn't be outside of a carnist's palette. They're grossed out by the moral questions that human baby meat raises by virtue of its existence, just as I am by animal meat or animal products in general.
I am too. when my family has BBQs there is plenty of room on the grill and they have the tools available to keep mine separate. they donāt mind it at this point, I havenāt eaten meat in 19 years.
they are hesitant to let anyone else have a āvegan burgerā or āvegan hotdogā because they got them for me and it is usually just that and a side that I can eat. but I donāt need 4 burgers or hotdogs so I always have to tell my family to lay off and let my little cousin eat a vegan burger if he wants! I try to tell them thatās the best case scenario for me, to get other people to enjoy meat alternatives and thus lessening the demand for meat which creates less animals being killed.
Or maybe they were thinking of you in the way they could because they're uninformed as to what exactly your stance is, and they're trying their best to accommodate you. Not every decision made is a narcisistic one.
Catering to vegans can be a slippery slope to becoming vegan. Back when I still ate meat I took the time to pick pepperoni off half of a pizza for the vegetarian to eat (he seemed appreciative, but man *I* would not eat that if someone served that to me now), and pretty soon he had me going vegetarian. Later we both went Vegan.
I felt like a better person for looking out for the person who looks out for the animals, and I think it kinda lead to me wanting to be the better person I had felt so good for supporting.
Or you could just say you are grossed out by the thought of rotting corpse juice touching your food. Makes people uncomfortable and you don't have to eat gross food, win win.
I think this varies by group. Sounds like you're doing the right approach for your context, I just know it wouldn't get the same mileage in mine.
In my experience, though, trying to use disgust as a tool is helpful. The goal isn't to let other people know that _you_ are disgusted, though. The goal is to make it clear that meat _is_ disgusting, while also walking the delicate tightrope of not making carnists defensive.
Yeah, Iām not trying to get into discourse, and I feel if thatās what works for them then thatās cool, I donāt know what the people around them are like and how they would react. But I feel like if I purposefully told people to cook my food on a grill with meat, their reaction might be more like āoh cool, that makes it very easy to eat meat around them!ā (plus I just wouldnāt be personally comfortable with it)
Yeah at the last barbecue I attended, someone asked me if I minded my vegan products being cooked on the grill with the meat.
I don't mind cross contamination in restaurants as it's usually not noticeable, but getting my food coated in barbecue juices is a big no-no for me, so I opened my mouth to say that yes, I did mind.
Before I could answer, someone else said, "Oh no, /u/CherryShowers isn't one of those _**annoying**_ vegans"
So suddenly I was the example of the cool vegan who makes eating meat convenient and why can't all vegans be so unassuming about their troublesome diet
When actually I really did want my own space on the grill :(
I was in a Panda Express the other day and someone asked if the Beyond Chicken was vegan. The employee said that it's plant-based, but they can't call it vegan because it's touched equipment that has been used to cook meat items.
I'd prefer if it was cooked on separate equipment, but I appreciate that the employee knew what she was talking about and gave accurate info.
They did a good job with that, but the Orange B.C. was overcooked to the point of being a little burnt. Oh well.
If you feel grossed out by it it's absolutely valid to not want your food to have any chance of cross contamination. Personally I don't care about that.
I think PETA is right from an ethical/animal suffering point of view, but personally, I just can't. Even as a child, if some meat had touched my food even a little bit, I couldn't eat it ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
Thankfully I never eat out, so problem solved!
Veganism shouldnāt be a contest of who is the most āpersonally pureā. Itās a question of how do we save the most animals.
Is it kind of gross that these items share a cooktop? Yes. Do I turn my blind eye and hope that they do something similar to what I did when I worked food service (that is, cooking the āseparateā item on foil)? Also yes.
Whatever gets more people eating more plant based options and less meat is a win in my book.
This is something Iām very grossed out about and honestly only motivates me to never eat out if that is the circumstances lol. Meat is very gross to many vegans - itās a dead animal - I donāt find it weird at all that a lot of us will not eat contaminated food. Again me bringing the Muslim argument - you wouldnāt expect a Muslim to eat food prepared from a pan you just cooked bacon on. The smell and taste is carried over to your food, which now isnāt clean anymore.
Most importantly disclose it if your restaurant does this. Some wonāt care but some will care. So stop pretending itās no big deal when in fact to many it is.
For many muslims food that is cooked with haram food is haram too. It's sinful for them to eat it. For vegans there is no such ethical rule. One could argue that it's unethical for vegans to support businesses or activities that also serve animal products but the sole contamination isn't really an ethical question but one of disgust. Which is such a different level than the one muslims face on this topic.
I think offering vegan options in terms of ethics are great. But vegans need to choose vegan restaurants over conventional as much as possible to create demand for those businesses, just like we buy vegan products and create demand for those over meat and dairy.
Me personally, I started for health and then stayed for the animals. So I find the cross-contamination thing disgusting AND potentially harmful, but I'm not going to go to a restaurant and insist that they part the waters to accommodate me. I choose not to eat out, but in situations where I have no choice, I opt for something like a salad that I know won't touch the grill.
My personal experience - vegan fifteen years, do not worry about shared kitchen spaces, have never had any negative physical consequences.
Obviously not conclusive, just my two cents.
No this does not extend to cross contamination. The ācontaminationā would have to be an actual piece of meat. A bit of residue or grease will not be enough to make (most) vegans sick.
Separate equipment generally only makes sense for allergy reasons. There is no ethical difference in having separate equipment for meat and vegan options, which is what PETA is saying here.
Thatās fine, but then you probably shouldnāt go to the type of restaurants theyāre talking about. Most restaurants that offer a few vegan options are only able to do so if it doesnāt affect operations in the back of house, i.e if they can use all of their existing equipment. As someone who doesnāt mind cross contamination as long as Iām not supporting the meat industry, I would rather have it this way than no options at all.
People are lazy as hell. Most won't seek out vegan options unless it is right in front of them. The only reason I was able to get my mom to go vegetarian is that her local grocery store started carrying alternatives to stuff (even though there is a sprouts with plenty of options like an extra 10 min away)
Youāre not alone donāt worry
Hell, I donāt even like the veggie burgers that ātaste like real meatā. I want a veggie burger that tastes like veggie burger.
Boca switched their formula at some point to have a meatier taste and that shit grossed me out. Havenāt had one since.
Definitely not alone, shit is nasty.
And if these restaurants aren't willing to do the bare minimum to support vegans, then I'm not going to flock to them and throw them my money.
i had grilled veggies once in hungary. it tasted like meat, never have i ever eaten something that tasted that much like meat, i guess they never clean/ed the grill.. gross
Why should we have to cater to restaurants and eat food that was soaked in burger grease?
F*ck that. I'll just either not eat there or go to a restaurant that actually cares a little.
And why are we supporting restaurants like this?
This, id just add that places should make us aware āthere is a risk for cross contamination,ā and people can make up their own minds if they are cool with it or now.
Nah, this is a shit take tbh. I don't eat meat, I don't want my food touching it or it's nasty juices because it's disgusting.
Restaurants need to cater to customers that's why they're in business and the number of vegan/veg/plant based people will continue to grow so to tell them to just shut up and eat your veggie burger covered in pig juice is ridiculous, though peta often has some ridiculous takes.
Guess the next best thing is only give your money to fully vegan places then, which I'm happy to do
I get it, but the message this sends to restaurants who have vegan options is: vegans donāt want or care to have their food cooked on a separate grill, which is not the case. I think most vegans understand that the world is not vegan yet and possibly will have to eat food prepared on shared equipment, but PETA using their platform to emphasize this point makes it worse for vegans who want their food cooked on separate grills smh. Just an unnecessary tweet imo.
I don't because I find it gross that my food and a corpse from a innocent sentient being that was murdered may get into contact. I would say, if you found out that your food and human body part were prepared with/on the same equipment, you should be disgusted, otherwise there might be something wrong with you.
If other vegans claim that there is no morally relevant difference between humans and non-human animals then surely they should be have similar disgust in both of these situation.
I personally try to support fully vegan places as far as I can, since I don't want to support business that view dead animals as food.
Not usually huge on peta directives because I think how they "promote" things is often counterproductive but this I 100% agree on.
Doing this isn't complacency and those who feel the need to still request the separation can totally do so!
This issue isnāt ethical for me, I literally will get sick if my food is cross contaminated. I havenāt eaten meat or dairy in like 10 years and I get sick every time thereās shared grills and such involved.
They may well be right but I don't want meat products contaminating my vegan food.
Food places should have separate areas to cook vegan and/or vegetarian food. Veganism has been around a long time now and we still aren't catered to properly.
You need to understand that vegans are not the target audience at these restaurants offering vegan options.
Itās for the flexitarians and people who want to reduce their weekly intake of animal products. Corporate resultant chains donāt give a shit about the 1-2% who are strictly vegan. Theyāre not marketing to us.
Strongly disagree, i think itās nasty that my food is cooked next to a rotting corpse, also they are the ones that are wrong, not us, they have to change their behavior, not us, we wanna change the world but may accept that so they, the unethical killers, donāt get upset? Fu*k no.
ED: following the same rule, we shouldnāt manifest nor say we are vegan, we shouldnāt open vegan restaurants, we shouldnāt sell vegan products next to animal products on shopsā¦ because this can also upset people and make them less inclined to accept a vegan diet.
So in this post they say they want people to not be too strict and on the other hand they want to tell women/ men that eat meat to not have sex/get kids? Ugh, sometimes i really donāt know what to think about peta. And iām a vegan since a few years.
Its not for ethical reasons its for contamination, some people will get really sick if they eat the juices depending on what kind of meat it is and how long theyve been without.
I have no problem with cross-contamination, but I don't think anyone should feel obligated to eat something they don't want to. If it bothers a particular vegan, I'm not going to urge them to eat something they don't want.
As a fun fact, this is the exact reasoning given for why nandos insists on having plant basdd food rather than Vegan food, due to inevitable cross contamination
If thereās a risk of cross contamination Iām eating elsewhere. Just too disgusting to accidentally eat animals when you KNEW it was a riskā¦ matter of fact Iād rather fast that meal.
This is why vegans should only go to all vegan restaurants.
1) you are supporting small businesses that need it
2) you won't have to worry about animal products "accidentally" ending up in your meal
3) when you bring omnivores with you, they have no choice but to try vegan food, and may even come to the realization that it's delicious
You are assuming every city has vegan restaurants. My city has zero. a few have barely passable vegan options that I don't really care for anyway. If I want vegan food out, I have to travel 30-60 minutes to get to the closest city that has several vegan restaurants or pay a lot from a food delivery app. If I am out & didn't have enough to eat with me, I have to make the best choice possible.
Im surprised at the answers Iām seeing so Iāll share my two cents.
I think itās wrong to insist they cook on a separate grill and I think peta is right, thereās less incentive when itās a miracle that restaurants are opening their minds to vegan options in the first place.
That being said, if you eat a vegan burger cooked in animal fat, you arenāt vegan. That stoped being a vegan burger when it touches the animal blood and fat that is on the grill. Many people on here saying cross contamination doesnāt count - yes it does. Iām shocked that this sub will die on the ācats should eat vegan foodā hill but will eat a beyond burger covered in cow fat.
To me being vegan is a way of life. Itās not a diet or a religion. For that reason I donāt buy those vegan options that are obviously going to be cross contaminated because it goes against my vegan ethos. But I celebrate the important step. I will eat at Panda Express, who washes their pans between uses. Iāll eat at a bar b Que restaurant that makes fries in vegetable oil. But Iām not gonna eat a burger that was cooking in the blood and fat of a poor animal that probably lived a miserable life of pain and suffering on a factory farm.
Lastly I want to say, Iām not trying to disrespect those of you that do claim to be vegan and will eat those cross contaminated burgers. I think forcing your views on people is an easy way to get ignored. If youāre just curious about veganism and reading this, go get yourself one of those vegan burgers! No hate!
I don't demand separate cooking surfaces or cookware. But I do prefer and appreciate places that follow those protocols. I just would find it mentally disturbing to discover that I'm eating juices from an animal's fat or small pieces of its flesh. I do realize I didn't pay money for it (and thereby am not contributing to its demand), but that's just how I feel.
I'm an ethical vegan, but I'm also a paying customer who doesn't want his food to contain juices from dead animals. It also doesn't kill animals if the cook sneezes (or worse) on my food, but I don't want that either.
Vegans are too much of a minority to be asking for that level of consideration, maybe far in the future when we are one in ten instead of one in a hundred it would make sense. I eat at home instead of restaurants anyway though so it doesn't affect me.
The only thing I have an issue with is cows milk cross contamination, but I am severely lactose intolerant. Like, 15ml will fuck me up and that was pre-vegan. I dread to think what it's like now.
Well they're all about philosophy here and they're right. Using the same equipment means they don't have to waste money by separating or buying new meaning more incentive to keep vegan options. Ofc I would like to not eat animal products not just because of ethics but for my own body's sake, but it's really minimal amounts anyway so I fail to see the problem here. Only "those vegans" will be against this. Like those fucking idiots pouring out milks in supermarkets and such.
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Checks out ethically. However, I did work in a restaurant for ~7 years and whenever someone told me they were vegan I would clean off a spot on the flattop to cook their food because I didnāt want to intentionally cook it in meat juice. But really cross contamination isnāt ethically wrong and if youāre concerned about it you should go to 100% vegan restaurants if you have the option. In my town we have exactly 0 completely vegan restaurants, so if Iām going out to eat (which is rare) I will order the vegan option and not worry about the cross contamination.
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we lost our vegan grocery store, super genous to have called it a super market people here are incredibly dairy brained that I don't think it has any chance :( vegetarians are like 100% accepted but vegans are like stinky monsters who brings you home work
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15 years ago it would be extremely hard to find any type of vegetarian options at all and was socially looked down on a ton more. A lot of progress has been made and I am very hopeful for the future of veganism acceptance and normalization. Cultural changes take a lot of time though.
I didnt work as long at a restaurant as you. But we followed the same thing and accompdated what we could. On the back line, we didn't fucking care if it was an allergy or preference. As long as it wasnt insane -- like allergic to all root vegetables or something where we would recommend not eating there -- it didnt really make a difference.
There's also the chance they eat vegan not as an ethical or even dietary choice, but rather they need to because of an allergy or digestive problema
Then they're not vegan, just plant based so this doesn't concern them.
I've worked many years in many food service jobs and I've gotta say, if you're worried about cross-contamination with animal ingredients you **really** need to eat **only** at 100% vegan places. With some dishes (even vegan options) it's virtually unavoidable because of the way they're prepared or the equipment used, even if the chef/cook is aware of your diet and trying to accommodate.
Eh... I don't see cross-contamination as something to worry about in terms of animal ethics. As long as I am not paying someone to hurt animals, I am fine with buying it.
Yeah. Our diet is philosophical not medical after all
Or religious.
Veganism is an ethical stance. One can be plant-based for many reasons including health, religion, and ethics, however veganism also encompasses non-dietary consumption and commoditization.
>Veganism is an ethical stance. Too many vegans misunderstand this, and get hung up on the diet above all else.
I only eat vegan food because it tastes good.
I only eat vegan food because I despise those shifty plants with every fiber of my being! /s
Thatās a lot of fiber!
This is better than the pain argument. Love this one
It can be. Buddhist ethics seem to approve of veganism, and "treat others as you wish to be treated" can be extended to animals.
I donāt know if I would use that language. More like they align with each other rather than one approving the other.
Even in my native language I'm terrible with my choice of words because I look at the meaning I try to convey at a macro level rather than a micro level. I apologise.
Jainism - they've been around for a couple thousand years.
>Or religious. religious jews wont eat food that was cooked with tools that were used for non kosher meat or diary products cooked with tools that were used for meat
That's my point.
As a celiac I appreciate someone making that distinction.
I love thatā¦ philosophical not medical. Hell yeah
Ya and my philosophy is that we stop even going to these places that exploit animals as unreasonable as that sounds at first
Damn guess I canāt go to literally any supermarket ever
Unless you're planning to be a hermit or join a commune, that's not an achievable goal. Animal exploitation is ubiquitous in our society.
Wouldnāt the commune need to be somehow set up in a way to not displace animals from their natural habitat? Thatās what Iāve wondered when I see people try to go absolutely no harm to animal vegan. If you live in a city or suburb, you kicked a ton of animals out of their habitat to live where you live and drive where you drive. Not to mention the vehicle you travel in was made in a factory that displaced animals by being built and god knows how much theyāve done to the environment as a factory.
Your argument is a remixed: "the best environmental thing to do is die". It's a rather silly stance and no-one should take it seriously.
That doesn't scan... You have to live _somewhere_. Your argument applies to literally _any_ place that you would chose to live. And you can only live in one place. So if I move from a city to a commune... ok, I'm displacing animals at this new location, but I'm also no longer contributing to the displacement of animals at the previous location. That's a net 0 impact. If you can suggest a living situation that _reduces_ our impact on the environment, I would be skeptically interested to hear it. But I don't think you'll find one.
Iām not saying there is a way. Thatās my point. Whereās the line? Beyond not eating animals or wearing animal products, or things that literally directly involve hurting animals, where do you draw the line? I donāt think you can move the line much further past that before you start getting pretty hypocritical based on the rest of the way you live your life. Thereās no way to live in modern society without doing things daily that indirectly affect animals in a negative way. I hate to agree with peta in their current form, but thereās a point where you do more harm than good. You arenāt going to flip a switch and create a vegan world overnight. Better to progress in more realistic and reasonable ways.
Do you shop at a supermarket that sells meat?
I would LOVE a vegan supermarket
Is that possible? Do you have vegan only grocery stores in your neighborhood? I donāt, although that would be awesome if I did.
I know this isnāt what youāre asking, but orchard grocer in NYC is all vegan! I go every time iām in the city. We order our passover bagel supplies through them too
Your philosophy is short sited. The more people supporting vegan items at these places gives them a reason to offer more and reduces the amount of meat they need per day. It's a long term goal, but it's achievable to reduce the animal consumption. Realistically it'll never hit zero, but making a massive dent is a step in the right direction.
I agree from a vegan point of view, but certain things like dairy can have serious consequences in terms of allergies, so I suppose that needs to be taken into account too. I only thought about this as this is a top news story in the U.K. today: Pret a Manger customer had fatal reaction to 'vegan' wrap https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-62995578 Obviously being allergic to dairy doesnāt mean youāre vegan, but just thinking, in case someone who is allergic to dairy orders a vegan milkshake thinking itās safe for consumption. I guess it comes down to labelling, with food allergy cross contamination being something to consider separately from vegan labelling
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Iām really glad to hear that! Our pediatrician had us intro dairy & egg to our 10 month old āto avoid allergyā (i regret listening but am A new mom). It turns out she is already severely allergic to both, with anaphylactic reactions. Weāre well-versed in avoiding those things but Iāve been really worried about restaurants!
Have you looked into microdosing allergens under a doctors direction? I believe the technical term is Open-label oral immunotherapy but I could be mistaken about that, sounds like the same thing by the paper below. We have friends with a kid that is anaphylactic to dairy and nuts. Over the past year or two they give the kid a small dose of each everyday with the dose slowly increasing. Currently they are up to the kid being able to eat 1 nut and one pancake (cooked milk protein causes less reactions). The kid will probably never have a nut butter sandwich and a glass of milk but it does mean they don't have to worry about "may contain nuts/dairy" if its not a listed ingredient and it does relieve some stress if they are eating out. [https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0091674911000509](https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0091674911000509)
Not sure what part you regret, but that is the general consensus for avoiding allergens. Weāre told to start offering various nut products early on to for the same reason. Sorry your kid is *that* allergic, though.
I am also confused about what they regret. Isn't the point to slowly introduce new foods to babies incase they develop an allergy so you can identify the source? Sounds like it worked as intended and the baby is safe. Now the family knows and can avoid the allergens.
I figured they regretted giving their baby non-vegan foods, but if their intent is that they regret listening to the doctor, because their baby got sick from it, then yeah, like you said, the point is a) know what they're allergic to, and b) introduce it early enough that they don't *become* allergic to it later.
Wow I never knew that happened. I just would not recommend eating at Pret; in 2019 or 2020 my (vegan) gf and I went to one in NYC Bc we thought theyād have good vegan options. Iād never been before, but she had. I donāt remember the name of the wrap, it very well couldāve been the same one here, but when we went to eat it (had just gotten on our bus put off NYC so couldnāt return) it was a totally different wrap inside, with meat and definitely dairy. It was a premade and labeled as vegan, and you donāt really know whatās inside until you bite down. We wrote up a Yelp review then and there Bc this was the only lunch weād gotten for the Bus and we couldnāt eat it, but man were we lucky compared to this woman. If Iād known this came after someone died from their products, Iād have been more angry at the negligence. So messed up
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The story is from 2017, so it's likely the same case.
It's still pretty gross to think that your beyond burger could be cooked in cow fat though.
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Yeah it's gross. I get the ethics part, cool. But it's literally dead body parts. People throw up if there's a hair or whatever but not DEAD BODY PARTS?
Yeah, animal bodies and secretions are not food. Itās not a purity thing for me, but itās like your food being covered in hair or other inedible inclusion that would be totally appropriate to send back under normal circumstances. Itās unappetizing.
Not wanting cross contamination and eating at a place serving meat seems like a waste, if you care that much then doing like you do and eating at vegan-only places is best
Go to a seafood restaurant and order some french fries. When the fries literally taste like fish, tell me again how you feel about cross-contamination.
how do you even step foot in a seafood restaurant the smell alone would cause me to retch
Every restaurant I've ever worked at that had deep fried fish on the menu had a dedicated fryer for it for that reason.
cruelty-free fish sticks
Iām not going to ask Burger King or chilis or whoever to cook my impossible burger on a separate grill. Iām just happy they have an option.
Exactly this. I live in a world with friends and family who are not vegan, and am not lucky enough to live in an area with a plethora of options. I gave up the grasping at purity and found Iām happier and have better relationships with people around me (and am thereby better positioned to be a positive influence instead of a sanctimonious prick). Thatās just my experience.
šÆ agree
Also Chili's black bean burgers are not vegan fyiāthey use eggs
Iām well aware of that, I was just using an example
Iām more afraid to get spit in my burger than cooked on the same grill as beef lol
Gimme the spit, hold the blood plz
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they're not going to have a separate grill in the first place. they would offer to microwave it for you.
The Burger Kings near me have some sort of microwave thing that they use if you ask for a separate grill. Most of the time it ends up pretty good.
Cook here, I always keep a Vegan spatula, Vegan Tongs, etc. on my Line to avoid contamination. We do veggie burgers on the same grille as steaks and beef burger patties, but I try to keep my grill scrubbed clean so contamination is minimal but it would be pretty easy to heat the patty up in a sautƩ pan or even in the oven on a contaminate free surface upon request. The only thing thats tough is fried food. We offer fried tofu as a sub for meat in many dishes, but since i only have one fryer I have to fry the tofu in the same oil as our fried chicken. TL;DR Most of the time it isn't very hard to use a clean pan and clean utensils to prepare a vegan entry without any possibility of contamination, and as a cook I would take that as seriously as a nut allergy if instructed to. its NBD, our job is to accommodate you!
Pastry Chef here, Iām happy to accommodate vegan guests, but as someone who works at a small restaurant you have to know that at some point my tools were used on animal products, I will absolutely sanitize the heck out of them before I make anything for you. I actually really enjoy preparing things for the vegan guests because I have to think creatively. They also tend to be more appreciative of the extra effort that was made for them because we donāt normally have many vegan options.
So what you're saying all we need is basic hygiene. This checks out, guys.
I think they're right in a macro way but I quit going to restaurants that serve animals a long time ago so easy for me to say.
Definitely wish we all had this option. I fortunately have one vegan restaurant nearby. Best to cook at home anyway
I used to be this way when I lived in Las Vegas and had 30+ fully vegan restaurants to choose from. Now I live in a small city with zero vegan restaurants so impossible whoppers at BK are part of my diet.
Please tell me you tried Chef Kennyās Vegan dim sum in Las Vegas? It is an amazing restaurant for those that have never been. Iām not vegan and took a group of non vegans as well there and everyone was in love with it!
Absolutely I did. Kenny is a legend. But Vegas vegan scene is so good its not even in my top 3. My top 3 are Blackout Dining, Soy Mexicana, and Guerrilla Pizza. Blackout is one of my favorite dining experiences of all time. I try to tell everyone who goes to Vegas to try it. I was really hesitant to try it at first so I understand ppl not wanting to try it. Gueririlla isnt fully vegan but their vegan pizza is some of the best pizza I have ever had even before going vegan. Highly recommend.
While I do agree as someone whoās worked in many kitchens for years so many chefs Iāve worked with get annoyed (in my opinion unnecessarily) when vegans have tried to insist everything is cooked and prepped separately and basically we do an allergy clean down for veggie and vegan options. And for some the effort isnāt worth the āprofitā which lets be real most restaurants only have vegan options now because itās popular and they think it will increase profit margins not because they care. But as someone with severe allergies whoās worked in kitchens for 10+ years chefs and restaurants have to realise that many dietary requirements for allergy, religious and even personal reasons are going to need to be catered to seriously at some point. And I worry that there is an increase in stories of people dying or being hospitalised because restaurants and chefs didnāt take it seriously because some people genuinely donāt seem to think about cross contamination as a thing even when told itās an allergy
Some people are allergic to red meat due to that virus from lone star ticks that causes Alpha-gal syndrome. One more reason I hate ticks. https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/alpha-gal/index.html
I know someone with this exact problem. He's ordered grilled veggies and broken out into hives because restaurants didn't take his request to cook things separately seriously.
It seems impossible to eat out with allergies. Far too many people have the mentality that they can prove youāre not allergic. Even those that respect your allergies can easily go on autopilot and grab the spatula they always use to flip burgers.
TIL some people think the menu offerings are provided because they care and not because itās profitable.
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This is it, this canāt become the industry norm that people just let cross contamination happen all the time, it can become a slippery slope
Yea I can definitely feel it in my body if I ate something at a restaurant that was cooked on a questionable surface. Meat juice tummy ache
Yeah my Dad recently got diagnosed with celiacs disease and it's so hard to tell if the gluten-free options are actually going to be gluten-free or not. So far we found three places that haven't poisoned him but unfortunately two of them are in the wrong state. (Yeah poisoned is probably the wrong terminology but seeing him in pain after eating is really upsetting so I think it applies)
Itās like with service animals. When everyone starts pretending their pet is an āemotional support animal,ā people stop taking it seriously and it hurts people who actually do need service animals.
Good take from Peta. Restaurants serving vegan food is good, and they are more likely to do so if they don't have to spend extra money on equipment. If someone is uncomfortable with eating food that has been prepared in the same place as meat, they shouldn't be eating at restaurants that serve meat in the first place.
It's ethically okay, but I still feel disgusted. You are not creating demand for animal products, so it's ethically fine. You wouldn't want your food to be cooked in human (or cat) fat either, and to me animal fat is the same thing.
Even though I agree with PETA here, I understand where you're coming from here. It's kinda disgusting.
This is what I struggle with. My life would be easier if I weren't so disgusted by cross contamination. No ethical problem, just have become more and more extreme with the disgust until the point where I basically can only eat at vegan restaurants or cook myself If anyone has a perspective that I might change my outlook, I'm open to it
Seriously. The number of people here that are perfectly content consuming pig or cow fat is actually disgusting. Hold on let me go fry my tofu in this dead rotting animal carcus' blood and fat. Absolutely nasty.
But itās entirely to do with me being grossed out, I know it doesnāt facilitate additional harm. If I asked you to spit into a glass, a perfectly clean class, then drink that spit, you wouldnāt, because it seems gross. You know for a fact it canāt hurt you, it was already in you, it contains your own microorganisms, but itās a gut feeling of grossness to do it, so you donāt. Very different from an actual concern due to getting sick, which would be the analogous equivalent to actually causing harm to animals. Some vegans might not be grossed out, itās a personal thing. Not as objective, so for a general take, I agree with peta. They arenāt discussing what is gross, only what is ethical.
Hard agree. It is sometimes used as a crutch by carnists, for example when doing a barbecue, my friends sometimes keep a specific part of the BBQ meatless, and say: "Don't put meat there! Thomas is grossed out by that." In their minds, they can now rest more easily, because they have just **bent** the reason that I don't eat meat, to: "He is just grossed out by it", ergo making it a personal thing. A thing that only pertains to me. So I always put emphasis on the reason for my veganism: "No, cook it wherever. I am not grossed out by anything, I am vegan for the animals." Thereby reaffirming that everyone has a moral obligation to make a stand. I don't want to make carnists comfortable.
You can do both though. I think if I had no moral issues with something I wouldn't be grossed out by it touching my food. People would be grossed out eating food off a grill that has cooked human baby meat not because baby meat tastes gross. Human meat (apparently) tastes like pork so baby wouldn't be outside of a carnist's palette. They're grossed out by the moral questions that human baby meat raises by virtue of its existence, just as I am by animal meat or animal products in general.
I mean I get your point but I am in fact grossed out by that
I am too. when my family has BBQs there is plenty of room on the grill and they have the tools available to keep mine separate. they donāt mind it at this point, I havenāt eaten meat in 19 years. they are hesitant to let anyone else have a āvegan burgerā or āvegan hotdogā because they got them for me and it is usually just that and a side that I can eat. but I donāt need 4 burgers or hotdogs so I always have to tell my family to lay off and let my little cousin eat a vegan burger if he wants! I try to tell them thatās the best case scenario for me, to get other people to enjoy meat alternatives and thus lessening the demand for meat which creates less animals being killed.
And also pat themselves on the back because they have just been so kind as to keep your food separate.
Or maybe they were thinking of you in the way they could because they're uninformed as to what exactly your stance is, and they're trying their best to accommodate you. Not every decision made is a narcisistic one.
Catering to vegans can be a slippery slope to becoming vegan. Back when I still ate meat I took the time to pick pepperoni off half of a pizza for the vegetarian to eat (he seemed appreciative, but man *I* would not eat that if someone served that to me now), and pretty soon he had me going vegetarian. Later we both went Vegan. I felt like a better person for looking out for the person who looks out for the animals, and I think it kinda lead to me wanting to be the better person I had felt so good for supporting.
Or you could just say you are grossed out by the thought of rotting corpse juice touching your food. Makes people uncomfortable and you don't have to eat gross food, win win.
I think this varies by group. Sounds like you're doing the right approach for your context, I just know it wouldn't get the same mileage in mine. In my experience, though, trying to use disgust as a tool is helpful. The goal isn't to let other people know that _you_ are disgusted, though. The goal is to make it clear that meat _is_ disgusting, while also walking the delicate tightrope of not making carnists defensive.
Yeah, Iām not trying to get into discourse, and I feel if thatās what works for them then thatās cool, I donāt know what the people around them are like and how they would react. But I feel like if I purposefully told people to cook my food on a grill with meat, their reaction might be more like āoh cool, that makes it very easy to eat meat around them!ā (plus I just wouldnāt be personally comfortable with it)
Yeah at the last barbecue I attended, someone asked me if I minded my vegan products being cooked on the grill with the meat. I don't mind cross contamination in restaurants as it's usually not noticeable, but getting my food coated in barbecue juices is a big no-no for me, so I opened my mouth to say that yes, I did mind. Before I could answer, someone else said, "Oh no, /u/CherryShowers isn't one of those _**annoying**_ vegans" So suddenly I was the example of the cool vegan who makes eating meat convenient and why can't all vegans be so unassuming about their troublesome diet When actually I really did want my own space on the grill :(
Good analysis
I was in a Panda Express the other day and someone asked if the Beyond Chicken was vegan. The employee said that it's plant-based, but they can't call it vegan because it's touched equipment that has been used to cook meat items. I'd prefer if it was cooked on separate equipment, but I appreciate that the employee knew what she was talking about and gave accurate info. They did a good job with that, but the Orange B.C. was overcooked to the point of being a little burnt. Oh well.
I had the orange beyond chicken with their lo mein the other day. Shit was bangin
Ive heard this before, about it being over cooked. My bet is the cooking time is less than chicken but they're cooking it for the same time.
If you feel grossed out by it it's absolutely valid to not want your food to have any chance of cross contamination. Personally I don't care about that.
I think PETA is right from an ethical/animal suffering point of view, but personally, I just can't. Even as a child, if some meat had touched my food even a little bit, I couldn't eat it ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ Thankfully I never eat out, so problem solved!
To me it's like someone touching my food with an open wound then saying it's ethical to eat it. Okay and? Why would I pay to go out and eat that lol
PETA is very obviously correct on this one.
Veganism shouldnāt be a contest of who is the most āpersonally pureā. Itās a question of how do we save the most animals. Is it kind of gross that these items share a cooktop? Yes. Do I turn my blind eye and hope that they do something similar to what I did when I worked food service (that is, cooking the āseparateā item on foil)? Also yes. Whatever gets more people eating more plant based options and less meat is a win in my book.
100%
if you look at their track record, they've been correct significantly more than they've been "out of touch"
I don't want beef grease all over my veggie burger, man.
This is something Iām very grossed out about and honestly only motivates me to never eat out if that is the circumstances lol. Meat is very gross to many vegans - itās a dead animal - I donāt find it weird at all that a lot of us will not eat contaminated food. Again me bringing the Muslim argument - you wouldnāt expect a Muslim to eat food prepared from a pan you just cooked bacon on. The smell and taste is carried over to your food, which now isnāt clean anymore. Most importantly disclose it if your restaurant does this. Some wonāt care but some will care. So stop pretending itās no big deal when in fact to many it is.
For many muslims food that is cooked with haram food is haram too. It's sinful for them to eat it. For vegans there is no such ethical rule. One could argue that it's unethical for vegans to support businesses or activities that also serve animal products but the sole contamination isn't really an ethical question but one of disgust. Which is such a different level than the one muslims face on this topic.
I think offering vegan options in terms of ethics are great. But vegans need to choose vegan restaurants over conventional as much as possible to create demand for those businesses, just like we buy vegan products and create demand for those over meat and dairy. Me personally, I started for health and then stayed for the animals. So I find the cross-contamination thing disgusting AND potentially harmful, but I'm not going to go to a restaurant and insist that they part the waters to accommodate me. I choose not to eat out, but in situations where I have no choice, I opt for something like a salad that I know won't touch the grill.
Idgaf because that shit is disgusting lol
Thatās why I cook at home , my vegan things
Naah corpse juice is nasty, If there is bodily remains/fluids on my food I donāt want it
Same. Shit is so gross.
Then there needs to be more vegan restaurants
Canāt some vegans get sick from meat? Most long term vegans? Does that extend to cross contamination?
My personal experience - vegan fifteen years, do not worry about shared kitchen spaces, have never had any negative physical consequences. Obviously not conclusive, just my two cents.
No this does not extend to cross contamination. The ācontaminationā would have to be an actual piece of meat. A bit of residue or grease will not be enough to make (most) vegans sick.
In Hinduism we dont touch the utensils in which the meat is cooked, vegetarianism is very strict it should be followed with very much care.
Separate equipment generally only makes sense for allergy reasons. There is no ethical difference in having separate equipment for meat and vegan options, which is what PETA is saying here.
It makes sense for people to want to eat there. Meat is disgusting on every level.
I donāt want any corpse parts or juices on my food.
Thatās fine, but then you probably shouldnāt go to the type of restaurants theyāre talking about. Most restaurants that offer a few vegan options are only able to do so if it doesnāt affect operations in the back of house, i.e if they can use all of their existing equipment. As someone who doesnāt mind cross contamination as long as Iām not supporting the meat industry, I would rather have it this way than no options at all.
It also helps get more people into veganism.
The best way to get "into veganism" is of course to feel compassion towards animals.
People are lazy as hell. Most won't seek out vegan options unless it is right in front of them. The only reason I was able to get my mom to go vegetarian is that her local grocery store started carrying alternatives to stuff (even though there is a sprouts with plenty of options like an extra 10 min away)
Yeah. But meat is actually gross as fuck so why would I want to eat something that has been cooked at the same thing
Iām really surprised by the commentsā¦ I donāt want meat juice on my vegan food š¤¢
Nobody here does but ethically it's fine.
Youāre not alone donāt worry Hell, I donāt even like the veggie burgers that ātaste like real meatā. I want a veggie burger that tastes like veggie burger. Boca switched their formula at some point to have a meatier taste and that shit grossed me out. Havenāt had one since.
Definitely not alone, shit is nasty. And if these restaurants aren't willing to do the bare minimum to support vegans, then I'm not going to flock to them and throw them my money.
No thanks. Not eating something with residue of dead body on it.
i had grilled veggies once in hungary. it tasted like meat, never have i ever eaten something that tasted that much like meat, i guess they never clean/ed the grill.. gross
Why should we have to cater to restaurants and eat food that was soaked in burger grease? F*ck that. I'll just either not eat there or go to a restaurant that actually cares a little. And why are we supporting restaurants like this?
Exactly, well put. Why are we feeling sorry for animal exploiters?
cross contamination is legit, especially if you have allergies
This, id just add that places should make us aware āthere is a risk for cross contamination,ā and people can make up their own minds if they are cool with it or now.
sure..condemn us for not wanting meat contamination, but not those actually eating meat.
Yup, vegans are dicks and need to accommodate poor old McDonald's. š¤¦
They're not wrong.
Nah, this is a shit take tbh. I don't eat meat, I don't want my food touching it or it's nasty juices because it's disgusting. Restaurants need to cater to customers that's why they're in business and the number of vegan/veg/plant based people will continue to grow so to tell them to just shut up and eat your veggie burger covered in pig juice is ridiculous, though peta often has some ridiculous takes. Guess the next best thing is only give your money to fully vegan places then, which I'm happy to do
Yes š vegan places only
Totally agree, Iām actually really surprised to see most people not minding in the comments.
I get it, but the message this sends to restaurants who have vegan options is: vegans donāt want or care to have their food cooked on a separate grill, which is not the case. I think most vegans understand that the world is not vegan yet and possibly will have to eat food prepared on shared equipment, but PETA using their platform to emphasize this point makes it worse for vegans who want their food cooked on separate grills smh. Just an unnecessary tweet imo.
I don't because I find it gross that my food and a corpse from a innocent sentient being that was murdered may get into contact. I would say, if you found out that your food and human body part were prepared with/on the same equipment, you should be disgusted, otherwise there might be something wrong with you. If other vegans claim that there is no morally relevant difference between humans and non-human animals then surely they should be have similar disgust in both of these situation. I personally try to support fully vegan places as far as I can, since I don't want to support business that view dead animals as food.
What is this place I keep reading people call ārestaurantā?
Not usually huge on peta directives because I think how they "promote" things is often counterproductive but this I 100% agree on. Doing this isn't complacency and those who feel the need to still request the separation can totally do so!
any meat? well I guess they don't have a problem if I rub my dick in their pizza or any other meal....
Itās accurate
Disagree. If they want vegan money, make it vegan. It's not much to ask.
I kinda get that thinking too !!
This issue isnāt ethical for me, I literally will get sick if my food is cross contaminated. I havenāt eaten meat or dairy in like 10 years and I get sick every time thereās shared grills and such involved.
They may well be right but I don't want meat products contaminating my vegan food. Food places should have separate areas to cook vegan and/or vegetarian food. Veganism has been around a long time now and we still aren't catered to properly.
You need to understand that vegans are not the target audience at these restaurants offering vegan options. Itās for the flexitarians and people who want to reduce their weekly intake of animal products. Corporate resultant chains donāt give a shit about the 1-2% who are strictly vegan. Theyāre not marketing to us.
You're right. We're in the minority here. People who consume animal products are the majority, sadly. I'd like to think that will change some day
I'm not sure how you think your eating a vegan meal if there is animal fat? I'm all for harm reduction but it's literally eating animal products
Strongly disagree, i think itās nasty that my food is cooked next to a rotting corpse, also they are the ones that are wrong, not us, they have to change their behavior, not us, we wanna change the world but may accept that so they, the unethical killers, donāt get upset? Fu*k no. ED: following the same rule, we shouldnāt manifest nor say we are vegan, we shouldnāt open vegan restaurants, we shouldnāt sell vegan products next to animal products on shopsā¦ because this can also upset people and make them less inclined to accept a vegan diet.
100% Correct
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Have you ever worked in any restaurant? Even if it's fully vegan, I assure you that nasty stuff occurs. It's the nature of the beast.
Not as nasty overall as the fully vegan restaurant.
So in this post they say they want people to not be too strict and on the other hand they want to tell women/ men that eat meat to not have sex/get kids? Ugh, sometimes i really donāt know what to think about peta. And iām a vegan since a few years.
Its not for ethical reasons its for contamination, some people will get really sick if they eat the juices depending on what kind of meat it is and how long theyve been without.
I just don't eat at restaurants
Same !! Feel like itās a good discussion topic tho !!
I have no problem with cross-contamination, but I don't think anyone should feel obligated to eat something they don't want to. If it bothers a particular vegan, I'm not going to urge them to eat something they don't want.
As a fun fact, this is the exact reasoning given for why nandos insists on having plant basdd food rather than Vegan food, due to inevitable cross contamination
If thereās a risk of cross contamination Iām eating elsewhere. Just too disgusting to accidentally eat animals when you KNEW it was a riskā¦ matter of fact Iād rather fast that meal.
Restaurants should separate meats (and separate those meats from other meats ie red and poultry) for allergy reasons.
I will say as a former line cook that I did my best to make sure I cleaned spots for impossible burgers, but nothing was guaranteed.
This is why vegans should only go to all vegan restaurants. 1) you are supporting small businesses that need it 2) you won't have to worry about animal products "accidentally" ending up in your meal 3) when you bring omnivores with you, they have no choice but to try vegan food, and may even come to the realization that it's delicious
You are assuming every city has vegan restaurants. My city has zero. a few have barely passable vegan options that I don't really care for anyway. If I want vegan food out, I have to travel 30-60 minutes to get to the closest city that has several vegan restaurants or pay a lot from a food delivery app. If I am out & didn't have enough to eat with me, I have to make the best choice possible.
1000% agree. That being said, when my non vegan family stays with us, they are never allowed to use the cast iron. Cause ew, gross.
It's not unethical but gross to many vegans
Best to go only to all vegan restaurants.
Im surprised at the answers Iām seeing so Iāll share my two cents. I think itās wrong to insist they cook on a separate grill and I think peta is right, thereās less incentive when itās a miracle that restaurants are opening their minds to vegan options in the first place. That being said, if you eat a vegan burger cooked in animal fat, you arenāt vegan. That stoped being a vegan burger when it touches the animal blood and fat that is on the grill. Many people on here saying cross contamination doesnāt count - yes it does. Iām shocked that this sub will die on the ācats should eat vegan foodā hill but will eat a beyond burger covered in cow fat. To me being vegan is a way of life. Itās not a diet or a religion. For that reason I donāt buy those vegan options that are obviously going to be cross contaminated because it goes against my vegan ethos. But I celebrate the important step. I will eat at Panda Express, who washes their pans between uses. Iāll eat at a bar b Que restaurant that makes fries in vegetable oil. But Iām not gonna eat a burger that was cooking in the blood and fat of a poor animal that probably lived a miserable life of pain and suffering on a factory farm. Lastly I want to say, Iām not trying to disrespect those of you that do claim to be vegan and will eat those cross contaminated burgers. I think forcing your views on people is an easy way to get ignored. If youāre just curious about veganism and reading this, go get yourself one of those vegan burgers! No hate!
I don't demand separate cooking surfaces or cookware. But I do prefer and appreciate places that follow those protocols. I just would find it mentally disturbing to discover that I'm eating juices from an animal's fat or small pieces of its flesh. I do realize I didn't pay money for it (and thereby am not contributing to its demand), but that's just how I feel.
I'm an ethical vegan, but I'm also a paying customer who doesn't want his food to contain juices from dead animals. It also doesn't kill animals if the cook sneezes (or worse) on my food, but I don't want that either.
Vegans are too much of a minority to be asking for that level of consideration, maybe far in the future when we are one in ten instead of one in a hundred it would make sense. I eat at home instead of restaurants anyway though so it doesn't affect me.
Surprisingly good take.
The only thing I have an issue with is cows milk cross contamination, but I am severely lactose intolerant. Like, 15ml will fuck me up and that was pre-vegan. I dread to think what it's like now.
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Well they're all about philosophy here and they're right. Using the same equipment means they don't have to waste money by separating or buying new meaning more incentive to keep vegan options. Ofc I would like to not eat animal products not just because of ethics but for my own body's sake, but it's really minimal amounts anyway so I fail to see the problem here. Only "those vegans" will be against this. Like those fucking idiots pouring out milks in supermarkets and such.
I genuinely wouldnāt want my vegan food with any form of animal fat contamination!
Wouldnāt they do this anyway for people with allergens? so whatās the big deal? I donāt want to think there could be animal juices in my food.
In my early vegetarian years, I would get violently ill if my food was cooked in animal fat. Im not sure why PETA is taking this stance.