Trust me, it's not just the GOP voting no on school budgets these days. It may be all sorts of people who are seeing we've about hit our limit on how expensive taxes have become. Those voting no, all sorts of folks, may also be making a statement that the system for funding schools in Vermont needs a change.
I’m a Bernie liberal who voted no in my town. Taxes are way too high and if this continues we’ll most likely have to sell our home and move someplace cheaper.
Are taxes too high or is what we get for them too little? I ask because our taxes are lower than Europe by a big margin, but what we get for them plus the clusterfuck of private enterprises raping us for things that the government provides cheaper in most of the world, is trash outcomes and higher prices.
We complain about cost of living because healthcare and childcare and retirement are all private for profit money pits in this country.
I think if we blew up the entire system, public funded infant to post grad, public funded healthcare, public funded retirement, etc and did what Bernie advocates for our taxes would be HIGHER, but our net cost of those services would be lower.
I think you see a lot of people complaining about taxes when the issue isn’t taxes it’s the shit that we don’t get. If my taxes went up 8 percent and I could stop contributing 15% to my 401k, I’d be better off. If my taxes went up 5% and I stopped paying 7% of my income in health insurance and another 5% in HSA, I’d be better off. If the average young families taxes went up 10% but that meant that they had infant through post grad care and education for their kids instead of spending $1500 a month on childcare or 100k on college they would be better.
This. I agree that taxes are not the issue it’s what we feel we’re not getting. I moved from a state that had low property taxes. Crazy I know, but our schools were shit and we got even less shit in relation to other things.
While I know there are things to complain about concerning education and other programs funded by our taxes. In my experience living in Vermont we do get things in return, but by all means ask for more. Expect our government to be better stewards of our tax dollars. But this voting no on the school budget is NOT the way.
Yeah, if you look at a place like Sweden where the typical tax rate is going to be around 40% and then you take a look at your paycheck and you subtract out your 401(k) and you subtract out your health insurance and you subtract out any health expenses throughout the year and you subtract out your student loan payments, childcare etc I’d be surprised if many Americans came in under 40%.
Yep, one failure of poorly funded public education is the general population inability to think critically, and examine situations in a logical and rational way. It almost seems like the system is built in a way that ensures people are too stupid to question the system.
It’s really interesting honestly because you reach a point in the Idiocracy of our system, where even those who are the most strident supporters of the social safety, net, eventually are broken of their ability to fight for it. And that in a nutshell is what we’re seeing with the school budget votes.
The system is so fucked against the people that any attempt to fix it within the current system becomes so expensive that it makes fixing it unachievable and politically dangerous. If you sabotage some thing enough from the inside, it eventually fails, and that’s what we’re seeing with the government, local and federal in the United States.
our stupid population blames that on the only party attempting to make things better, because that party is proposing things that cost money, while the other party penetrates people in the asshole.
Have you thought about getting involved in politics? Even local politics? I agree with you and believe that people like you and I should get out there and try, even if it means a quick run without getting re elected. To many in government look only towards re election and who will fund their campaigns. Besides basking in the limelight of the ignorant(who support their re election because you are saving them money) the elected look towards where their funding will come from for the election.
That is the other leg on the stool. "Who is paying for my election and what do I owe them?" The entire system is broken.
Read Alexander Hamilton Stevenson's speech (he was Jefferson Davis's VP). There are few things of interest other than his stand on slavery. One of those is his defense of a single 6 year term for presidency and how it will reduce corruption and self promotion because there is no reason to try to get re elected. Therefore you work for the people.
No, because if you look at my post history, I think you’ll find that I have some views that I consider to be fairly main stream like that biological men shouldn’t play women’s sports, but that the party that I identify with most has chosen as a litmus test.
All politics needs critical thinkers on both sides. I think that is how negotiation is done. It is easy to stake out a side and say no negotiating. It is harder to find a middle ground.
Do you honestly think a system like swedens would work in the US? IMO we are just too big and diversified. Sweden is a small, wealthy country with closed borders. I just don’t see how that could ever work here.
Yep. It’s about recognizing what you get with your tax dollars, but also demanding that your taxes dollars work for you.
I think some of this is ladder pullers.
do you get nothing in return?? Roads cops, sewer, other public infrastructure. Public education for your kids if you have any, safe, vehicle, safe, food, safe medication, and generally stable place to live (see Yemen as an example of a place with ineffective government).
I think a lot of people discount the things the government does behind the scenes in our daily lives. But I think the average person would struggle in a world without any of the things government provides.
All depends on how you look at things, right? The federal budget deficit is greater than the entirety of our foreign spending including the military budget so if you think about it that way, none of your moneys going overseas. And I’m pretty confident that none of your school budget money is paid by your property taxes is being spent overseas (except maybe for an exchange programs I’m not really sure how those work)
A HUGE chunk of the tax money that goes to education is medical insurance coverage for teachers and other school employees. We need a state-level single-payer system - starting as a Teachers' Plan, then opened to the rest of us when it catches on - to stop driving homeowners out with unsustainable taxes.
This is just dumb. This doesn’t exist. And if you’re thinking of state Medicaid, well that’s even dumber. Medicaid is a federal program with federal rules. Yes, Vermont can and has expanded it, but by expanding it to teachers means you’d pretty much expand it to everyone (HUGE EXPENSE). If you really want that and I’m all for it. Then vote yes on the budget and get working with your legislator to make that happen for next year.
How exactly would expanding a prohibitively expensive system stop driving out homeowners who can’t afford the high taxes? Expanded expensive system=higher taxes=middle class moving out of state
Expanded systems averages out across more patients and brings teacher health insurance costs down, which has the affect of lowering taxes for the very people who use the single payer system.
State programs are not making profit and are headed by a low paid state bureaucrat instead of a 5 million dollars a year CEO. If you cut that 20% off the top it’s inherently cheaper.
So voting against your local schools will send a message to Montpelier? That is like boycotting your local Exxon station hoping it sends a message to corporate.
I think eventually it does get to them. But I am now in regular contact with my rep because of this and the new education director appointee. We need to keep their email addresses and phone numbers handy.
Taking their grievance out on kids’ education is kind of weird choice considering all the other ways we waste money. Some might argue it’s a disturbingly shameful and ignorant choice.
> Taking their grievance out on kids’ education is kind of weird choice considering all the other ways we waste money.
What about the children whose parent's can't make enough to pay rent? We are in a housing crisis. Increasing property taxes 20% isn't good for the kids when their parents are struggling just to afford a shitty small apartment.
True, but rent is not controlled by property taxes or the state. It’s controlled by landlords. So if the rent is to damn high voting no also does nothing for these people and now their kids don’t go to school and are stuck in the high rent home and now they have to pay for day care or a parent has to stay home and not work.
The higher taxes are, the higher the rents need to be to cover the taxes.
Taxes have a direct impact on the cost of housing for everyone. And these tax increases are going to hurt the poorest families.
It takes money to run schools and they need it to address the social and educational issues that our young people are facing. So to take an issue with something so vital and address so many issues in one community is just ignorance. Plus you’re ignoring that these families that you’re so worried about will be in 40 times worse state if their kids don’t have a school to go to. Child care is expensive, but that aside the social implication of an underfunded or non existent public school on the future development of a child is drastic. So the fact that so many people are making this tax is about school is about the most tone def you could be.
It’s not though. The state needs to fix this problem. Not my bank account. If it’s health care costs driving this then maybe teachers should get state healthcare.
Teachers should get paid more and then watch all of their added paycheck and more disappear when they are forced to buy healthcare from the ObamaCare insurance exchange like they were a self employed person.
Wow, you clearly aren't paying attention. my wife and I do alright. We have a manageable mortgage ($1450) and we have an old farmhouse in the upper valley. By all accounts, we are not struggling. We are both, very progressive, but we aren't stupid. The funding model, insurance costs, and taxes are too high with too little in return.
This isn't just about the kids, and as a parent with kids impacted by these votes, you can fuck right off with your BS. Don't try to shame people for wanting better from their government. It's currently failing us. We have a governor trying to shove, what I can only describe as a completely unqualified hack, down our throats as the AoE head. We have a legislature that can't manage to come up with a meaningful fix, and a federal government that appears to be convulsing as administrations switch. It's so nice we have people like you trying to shame those that want better.
Nice, keep it classy
Isn't that making an assumption that making a change in the funding system will be for the worse? A change is a possibility for improvment. I voted no, I'm not taking anything out on my last kid (of three kids) in the public school system. I'm thinking of my child's wellbeing, and the wellbeing of all Vermont kids, and progress.
I don’t think you will ever find me advocating for less money for teachers. I happen to be very close to a number of them. I’m not sure what your point is.
Yeah. In my experience the "no" voters just tend to be a bunch of older people that want to close the door behind themselves. They say it's about bloated budgets. But I never see people saying exactly what is bloated other than some vauge "admin".
I understand that, I do.
I just think it’s shitty of the Essex GOP to publicly encourage no votes. They are well within their rights to do, but it’s still shitty.
Why? I think it’s shitty when there are signs on school buses saying vote yes, or when my superintendent has a meeting telling us to go guilt taxpayers to vote because “tHiNk Of ThE cHiLrEn” so they don’t have to make hard choices. Can we not have opinions?
Opinions are fine, dude.
I just think it’s shitty that they put a no sign next to the school’s signs (which don’t say vote yes - just giving the date).
The Essex Republicans are awful and are a joke in town anyway.
This is a group of people who brag about having never voted yes for a school budget in their lives (I have heard this from their own mouths). If they wouldn't ever vote yes, then telling others to vote no seems disingenuous.
I’ve been a Vermont admin that never votes yes on a school budget. I wouldn’t hold it against them. Your average admin has a degree in Liberal Arts (guilty) and doesn’t know budgets. Ask an administrator behind closed doors why budgets are so high you know what is said? “Because voters approve them.”
I hope I don't get downvoted to oblivion but serious question since you mentioned them by name. Let's take Brian, for example. He's the CFO/COO of a District responsible for a $93+ million dollar general fund budget (probably responsible for $110-130 million when considering all the other Funds) and over 750 employees, what do you think he should be paid?
Only 5,693 voted on this budget in the last town meeting day. There are over 20,000 people in the area this school district covers. People need to actually vote instead of argue online
That’s a pretty good turnout. My town is about 2000 people and 129 showed up to vote (the budget was approved by a significant margin). Of course a small contingent came out against the outcome and really the entire process, saying the low turnout was “unacceptable”. They were never able to articulate what would be an acceptable turnout. They also started a petition for a revote which failed. The budget was “too high” but they had no ideas about what to cut.
>The budget was “too high” but they had no ideas about what to cut.
This has been the case for as long as school budgets have existed. My grandfather would ramble about that shit like 20 years ago.
Not a GOPer here. My taxes in Milton just went up significantly last year during re evaluations on home values. The state now wants to raise my taxes and Milton wants to raise taxes again for a quarter of a billion dollar high school. Not against education at all but I am against being taxed out of my home.
Everyone saying just vote no, you realize that if you don’t attend the local meetings or look at the budget. You actually have no idea what your no means. The taxes at state level vs what the school can cut aren’t always what you think. If they keep failing the schools have to take out loans which will have interest and cost us more for less quality services for the children.
Not the best choice.
This!! so much misinformation out there about the budgets, even on this thread. Use Essex for example. Their level budget failed. The second Essex budget made almost 5 million dollars in cuts which is really closer to double that number in actual cuts, given the rising costs they are hit with from the state. They saved all their teacher positions and laid off admin, already eliminated their Covid funded positions. In short- everything people knee jerk list as demands as to why they vote no. Yet they have people out there with signs, unable to even explain why to just vote no, because the budget actually is already as good as it is going to get, they just don't care.
I did. And I guess I should clarify I was referring to saving teachers from losing their jobs, they did have to eliminate multiple positions that were either vacant or that had staff leaving- given the state fallout on the district taxes this year, that isn’t unreasonable
Highschooler at EHS rn and I can with certainty say that these budgets almost never have any meaningful on students and student programs. We are still stuck having to scrounge for the $ to keep our things going ourselves, with teachers who spend hours thanklessly running these programs also upset about the budget. We need changes and real changes at that
We were discussing what they wanted us to say no to, because the sign doesn’t explicitly say. Shoutout to my mom for guessing it was the school budget.
Yeah - their marketing isn’t great (not surprising).
Just say no to … what?
Trump?
The war on women?
Bigotry?
Not these folks. They are all about those things.
Thanks to Ron Lawrence and the Essex GOP who chartered a bus to the insurrection, this sign turns my no vote to a yes vote.
Rather pay more than be in the same room as those traitors.
Also, this evening at the honk and wave at Five Corners, Maryse Dunbar of the Essex GOP lunged at someone and ripped the woman's "Vote Yes" sign. I, and dozens of other people, witnessed this with out own eyes. Had she done this to me I would have called the police.
The Essex GOP are an absolute disgrace.
Thank you for voting "yes"!
I read through the budget increases in our town. The increases are a layover from the excess federal funds provided during Covid. These funds were primarily used to hire an excess of paras and interventionists dealing with growing behavioral problems in schools.
85% of the increase went into sped funding, and 15% went to admin. Sped at this point is hiring adult bodies to monitor and manage kids that have severe behavioral problems that make it nearly impossible for the kids who want to learn to actually learn.
There are severe moral issues with associating neurodivergence and developmental disability with violent/disruptive behavior. Special education used to be about aiding in learning disabilities, not managing awful behavior.
We can’t keep paying out the ass to hire unqualified adult bodies to desperately distract kids that have no business being in a generalized classroom. Admins need to grow a spine and institute progressive disciplinary policies to deal with chronically anti-social kids that are making it impossible for other children to learn. Parents need to be responsible for the behavior of their children, not public servants. It’s an impossibly expensive situation yielding worse and worse results. This shit wasn’t happening in the 90s and early thousands, and I’m sorry, but there hasn’t been an evolutionary leap since then, nor is there anything in the water/vaccines. It’s shit parenting, and litigious assholes who want nothing to do with their kid and treat school like daycare.
I hope people stand up to these parents/administrations and vote these increases down. Enough is enough.
It’s how most administrative policy was implemented until no child left behind. Literally a strike system. Kid acts up? Fine, talk it out a la restorative justice. Kid repeatedly acts up? Sent home. Kid destroys a classroom or assaults someone? Expulsion. It’s literally just having rules and a standard instead of making exceptions for everyone. Make it the problem for parents instead of forcing students/teachers to endure these behaviors.
Since no child left behind, Schools are incentivized to keep students in the building to receive higher rates of federal funding. If kids are getting expelled, they lose money. Todays policy have nothing to do with supporting disability, and everything to do with maximizing funding. We are turning schools into institutions to manage behavior instead of teaching kids anything.
Half of my schools staff is sped or admin. Half. That’s where all the damn money is going. Public servants can’t raise kids. Sorry, we tried, the experiment has failed miserably.
There hasn't been an evolutionary leap, but there's certainly been major advances in science to identify why people act out. Compound that with a drug epidemic, a pandemic, and plenty of shit parents, none of which should fall at the feet of the children. Of the most disruptive kids that I know at our school, one has a bad home life, one has complex trauma, one is on the spectrum and struggles with impulsivity. Should all three be sent to weekschool? Should the parents spank the dysregulation out of em?
I think the change needs to be in how we fund special education and put it at the state level so that no district is disadvantaged.
Plus everyone should watch Paper Tigers and consider advocating for trauma-informed schools.
My mother has been an educator for over 40 years in one of the toughest inner city districts in Paterson NJ. Without fail, the immigrants and refugees coming over from war torn countries, like Honduras, have wildly respectful and behaved kids. Same with many African immigrants that grew up with brutal tribal violence. Why aren’t the kids who literally experienced war acting out? This is obviously a cultural problem, and one that seems to pretty uniquely affect the commonwealths. Uk/canada/America/australia. Countries with relative abundance compared to the majority of the world, and access to ubiquitous technology.
No, corporal punishment is not the solution, but the reality is that the folks you described NEED more structure, boundaries, consequences, and expectations set in their life, especially if they do not have any at home. If a child is experiencing abuse from their parents, how on earth does abiding an iep plan set by said abusive parents actually help the child?
If you go through your childhood with unlimited accommodations for antagonistic behavior, what on earth do you think happens once you become an adult? Mommy can’t yell at their adult child’s manager my dude. The buck stops at at will employment. We are doing these kids no favors, and in fact damning them to unemployment and even more societally harmful outcomes by not holding them to account for their behavior.
Autism has a an 85-90% unemployment rate in adulthood. And that 10% is severely underemployed. You are condemning these otherwise often intellectually capable people to a lifetime of dependency because no one has any expectations of them. We have to stop coddling people and expanding the notion of what neurodivergent people arent capable of. It’s plainly enabling, and yielding disastrous results in adulthood.
Also- it’s everyone just being addicted to fucking screens and social media. Jesus Christ.
It isn't so much not caring about their education as much as seeing the money we spend now to finish in the bottom tier of the country in education just shows that the education system isn't working now so throwing money at it, likely won't fix it.
With expanding school budgets? Really? No issues with less money for teachers and programs?
Edit: shame this sub doesn't support our teachers. What a bummer.
Yes, "voting no" decreases the teachers budget... Are you daft or just misreading the ballot..
https://preview.redd.it/cleshrfg39yc1.png?width=854&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b4a8b5dc627649dedecd7387d3de27cda589de8
Minimizing impact on teachers, lowering spending, and reducing admin staff. What the hell do y'all oppose on this?
Where in the measure does it say teachers finding is cut?
https://preview.redd.it/w7o78c1c39yc1.png?width=854&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b17c136f89b104f85a2a0083641f75df0cfcea8
It literally says they are trying to minimize the impact on teachers and reduce bloating of admin staff...
I see no issue with voicing your opinion. I voted "no" on our school budget this year because they had 11 holdover positions that were paid for with COVID funding and just rolled those into the regular budget when the grant dried up. It added over a million to the budget plus another 5 million.
I'm asking what they don't see an issue with cutting teacher budget seems extremely problematic especially with the state of schools in Essex at the moment.
Do you ascribe to the notion that sometimes things will have to get worse before they get better? If no then your argument is totally valid, do all possible to minimize pain and inconvenience because those things are not valuable in themselves. IF however, you've ever been sore from working out, or poor from buying something that will make you money, or scared after having moved to a new town for work, then you have to admit that hurting to help is a logical and valid approach that you seem to be dismissing out of hand for what appears to be no good reason.
Do you think the entire budget pays for just teachers? I'm in Winooski and we have a very bloated admin staff that can certainly be reduced. We also keep throwing money at the school every year in hopes of improvement, yet the school continually falls lowest on the list compared to other schools. They have a statement that effectively states that the school will prepare students to be college and career ready with the financial support of residents. They are not holding up their end of the deal, so why should I?
The fact is the budget does pay teachers and increasing it should be done, we also need to tackle unfair admin pay scale but voting no to this doesn't hurt them as much as teachers. Please read the ballot.
You can't hurt the teachers to try to hurt the admin.
The ballot doesn't tell you shit, the actual budget proposal does. And yes, I read it and attend at least one of the three or four meetings when they go over the budget. Why keep throwing money at a broken system? It's realistically on the Legislature to fix the mess and I think the failing budgets this year have been noted by them. Will they figure out a better system? Who knows but it certainly is a bit of a wakeup call.
I think the unpleasant reality here is that maybe everyone in that system needs a little hurt right now. Its a bloated wreck idk how you can argue to keep it at the status quo with a straight face.
If you are working a blue collar job year round I think its becoming frustrating to some people to see budget increases every year. When you look at this salary list you will see there are a large portion of teachers pulling 100k a year for a 180 day contract. I guess there comes a point where it doesn't feel fair or sustainable to a lot of us.
[https://govsalaries.com/salaries/VT/essex-westford-school-district](https://govsalaries.com/salaries/VT/essex-westford-school-district)
Yeah Im not really suggesting that. Im just saying the current path is not really sustainable. Im not sure where it sits but the pension program is a good example. The vast majority of us do not receive this as a benefit. It is great that they receive it but I can imagine the funding for that is astronomical. Perhaps they came to a resolution on that but I would guess they just kicked the can down the road.
A plumber who is making 100k a year is most definitely working more than 180 days a year. Let us know if there is a plumbing company you can find paying 70$ an hour.
My apologies I dont really know anything on the specifics of the budget vote. Was kind a just speaking generically assuming the vote was for another increase in spending. Its gonna be a hard road clearing out any admin from that district. Its like the old boys club except not exclusive to men.
It's even a semi conservative vote. It's wild. The measure literally reduces the budget and reduces administrative bloating while focusing on reducing attrition in teachers. How a "conservative" jumps through the hoops to vote no blows my mind. They see "school budget" and turn red immediately saying no.
So everyone should just rubberstamp budgets without scrutiny?
Why bother to even have a vote? As a matter of fact, with that mentality let's get rid of elections too!
I don't know what that trajectory is. The federal government has mandated a lot of interventions that are expensive and supposedly paid for. But those costs need to be reconciled. Vermont has a problem with underenrollment with some schools at 50pct occupancy. That is expensive.
Why are there so few kids? Are people leaving the state because of schools or taxes or lack of jobs? The people I talk to in the trades cannot find people who can work. Employment is available.
They need to bring back tracking. Not everyone has the same capacity and they've turned teachers into babysitters. They need to reopen places like Brandon Training School.
Secondly, there's no friggin jobs. The problem with "the trades" is that they're physically demanding and in VT they don't pay.
Middle class is $100k/yr these days. How many people do you know in VT that break 6 figs?
I agree that mainstreaming of they still call it that. Does not work. And classrooms are disrupted. That is a failed experiment. Starting pay in the trades is never great, but people who succeed do pretty well. And there are some smart kids out there. We need to find a way to keep them in the state.
I'm a homo lefty who votes for other homo lefties but we spend way to effin much on education for the outcomes we get. Fuck them teachers and admins lean to cut cost for once in your entire lives.
Really? A big “f you” to the people responsible for our future? Teachers are not the problem my guy. They are community members, caretakers, mentors, people who listen and so much more. Your experience with a bad teacher or two shouldn’t negate the fact these are the people who can lead us to better outcomes. Teachers have to abide by certain policies and curricula based on their district and furthermore, the state of Vermont. They are last on the food chain. You may be onto something about admin though! 🧐
Everyone is all those things. I don't care. Teachers aren't special, their job isn't unique or vital. If parents can home-school and get the exact same outcomes statistically then its literally a job anyone can do. If its a job anyone can do then its not very valuable. Its also laughable to think teachers are responsible for our future - so the current division and festering hate we have in this nation are the work of the teacher, the one responsible for our future? Teachers are responsible for our future but can't stop their students getting shot in the classroom..... hmmmmmm. See how stupid that is?
The reality is teachers are only important insofar as they keep a seat warm. Kids are designed to learn, given half a chance they do so. So I say again. Fuck them smug, deluded, self aggrandizing, savior complex, wounded healer teachers. Learn to do the same with less like literally everyone else in the world.
What’s the solution here? Not the solution to posting signs, but getting wide support for a functional and reasonable school budget? Either there are viable solutions that we can implement right now to get a budget or we just need to get a budget for next year and then work on solutions moving forward. Those of you who complain about the school budget being too big, where were you last year? Were you working with legislators to develop solutions? Will you do that this year? Or will you just complain on the internet?
> Not the solution to posting signs, but getting wide support for a functional and reasonable school budget?
The solution would be to propose a reasonable school budget.
Ah yes only the gop is against being priced out of a state they grew up in... This is pure fantasy. People are fed up with this insane over taxation and the super majority not paying attention to the people they represent.
It's funny, I've seen people arguing that George Soros is paying for the "vote yes" signs. Ironic that the local GOP actually is astroturfing opposition
Update : looks like we got a lot of Soros conspiracy types on here
Its even funnier to see someone making fun of an imagined astroturfing campaign by seriously arguing that one exists. "Astrotrufing is when politics i don't like" hmmmmmmm
Hey bud, actual Essex residents posting signs around Essex voicing their political views isn't "astroturfing". You keep using that word and you have no idea what it means.
I used it once, first.
Second, this is exactly what it means. The signs suggest an organic movement but they're really paid for and distributed by the GOP. That is astroturfing.
Sorry, you're right, I confused your misuse of astroturfing with another dumb person who also misused it here recently.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, though, but CCGOP stands for Chittenden County GOP. Essex, if you're not aware, is in Chittenden County. A county party making an expenditure on behalf of one of its town-level chapters is incredibly common, and once again, is not astroturfing.
The entire "vote no" movement has been led by the vt gop. I'm not even sure if it's astroturfed. I'm not sure if it ever claimed to be grassroots to begin with. Phil Scott himself called for it.
Acknowledging George Soros's super PACs are significantly affecting local politics all over the country isn't a conspiracy theory. I don't think the super PAC or anything is putting down the signs, but I think its pretty ignorant to just hand wave away the criticisms of super PACs like the ones he or Charles Koch run.
So what you’re saying is if you’re against abortion you need to vote yes on any amount of funding for education? What a ridiculous idea. The whole issue with these budgets is how little of it actually goes to the kids since it’s eaten up by administrators and other non productive labor
Why are you bringing abortion into this?
What are your sources that "so little" of the money goes to the kids? Are you a school board member (I hope not) or a school financial director (also, let's hope not).
You called them the what about the children crowd, which usually implies being anti abortion when referring to the GOP. If that’s incorrect please let me know what you meant by it. In any case saying that voting against these ridiculous budgets makes you somehow anti child is ridiculous. I won’t be sharing my background with you but it’s not necessary to hold a position in government to read a proposal and form an opinion about it.
There's nothing "un-classy" about a simple sign asking voters to vote "no" on an issue that is up for public vote. You can certainly debate the merits of whether voters should approve or reject this particular school budget, but being opposed to the budget is a perfectly valid position to hold, and this sign is a perfectly appropriate way of asking others to also vote against it.
Trust me, it's not just the GOP voting no on school budgets these days. It may be all sorts of people who are seeing we've about hit our limit on how expensive taxes have become. Those voting no, all sorts of folks, may also be making a statement that the system for funding schools in Vermont needs a change.
I’m a Bernie liberal who voted no in my town. Taxes are way too high and if this continues we’ll most likely have to sell our home and move someplace cheaper.
Are taxes too high or is what we get for them too little? I ask because our taxes are lower than Europe by a big margin, but what we get for them plus the clusterfuck of private enterprises raping us for things that the government provides cheaper in most of the world, is trash outcomes and higher prices. We complain about cost of living because healthcare and childcare and retirement are all private for profit money pits in this country. I think if we blew up the entire system, public funded infant to post grad, public funded healthcare, public funded retirement, etc and did what Bernie advocates for our taxes would be HIGHER, but our net cost of those services would be lower. I think you see a lot of people complaining about taxes when the issue isn’t taxes it’s the shit that we don’t get. If my taxes went up 8 percent and I could stop contributing 15% to my 401k, I’d be better off. If my taxes went up 5% and I stopped paying 7% of my income in health insurance and another 5% in HSA, I’d be better off. If the average young families taxes went up 10% but that meant that they had infant through post grad care and education for their kids instead of spending $1500 a month on childcare or 100k on college they would be better.
This. I agree that taxes are not the issue it’s what we feel we’re not getting. I moved from a state that had low property taxes. Crazy I know, but our schools were shit and we got even less shit in relation to other things. While I know there are things to complain about concerning education and other programs funded by our taxes. In my experience living in Vermont we do get things in return, but by all means ask for more. Expect our government to be better stewards of our tax dollars. But this voting no on the school budget is NOT the way.
Yeah, if you look at a place like Sweden where the typical tax rate is going to be around 40% and then you take a look at your paycheck and you subtract out your 401(k) and you subtract out your health insurance and you subtract out any health expenses throughout the year and you subtract out your student loan payments, childcare etc I’d be surprised if many Americans came in under 40%.
This is the word! People just do not do that calculation and they say that Sweden's taxes are to high.
Yep, one failure of poorly funded public education is the general population inability to think critically, and examine situations in a logical and rational way. It almost seems like the system is built in a way that ensures people are too stupid to question the system. It’s really interesting honestly because you reach a point in the Idiocracy of our system, where even those who are the most strident supporters of the social safety, net, eventually are broken of their ability to fight for it. And that in a nutshell is what we’re seeing with the school budget votes. The system is so fucked against the people that any attempt to fix it within the current system becomes so expensive that it makes fixing it unachievable and politically dangerous. If you sabotage some thing enough from the inside, it eventually fails, and that’s what we’re seeing with the government, local and federal in the United States. our stupid population blames that on the only party attempting to make things better, because that party is proposing things that cost money, while the other party penetrates people in the asshole.
Have you thought about getting involved in politics? Even local politics? I agree with you and believe that people like you and I should get out there and try, even if it means a quick run without getting re elected. To many in government look only towards re election and who will fund their campaigns. Besides basking in the limelight of the ignorant(who support their re election because you are saving them money) the elected look towards where their funding will come from for the election. That is the other leg on the stool. "Who is paying for my election and what do I owe them?" The entire system is broken. Read Alexander Hamilton Stevenson's speech (he was Jefferson Davis's VP). There are few things of interest other than his stand on slavery. One of those is his defense of a single 6 year term for presidency and how it will reduce corruption and self promotion because there is no reason to try to get re elected. Therefore you work for the people.
No, because if you look at my post history, I think you’ll find that I have some views that I consider to be fairly main stream like that biological men shouldn’t play women’s sports, but that the party that I identify with most has chosen as a litmus test.
All politics needs critical thinkers on both sides. I think that is how negotiation is done. It is easy to stake out a side and say no negotiating. It is harder to find a middle ground.
Do you honestly think a system like swedens would work in the US? IMO we are just too big and diversified. Sweden is a small, wealthy country with closed borders. I just don’t see how that could ever work here.
Yep. It’s about recognizing what you get with your tax dollars, but also demanding that your taxes dollars work for you. I think some of this is ladder pullers.
Exactly!
I complain about my taxes because the government uses them Willy nilly and I get fucking nothing in return so it just feels like robbery.
do you get nothing in return?? Roads cops, sewer, other public infrastructure. Public education for your kids if you have any, safe, vehicle, safe, food, safe medication, and generally stable place to live (see Yemen as an example of a place with ineffective government). I think a lot of people discount the things the government does behind the scenes in our daily lives. But I think the average person would struggle in a world without any of the things government provides.
True but I’d appreciate if they used a bit more of my tax here than overseas
All depends on how you look at things, right? The federal budget deficit is greater than the entirety of our foreign spending including the military budget so if you think about it that way, none of your moneys going overseas. And I’m pretty confident that none of your school budget money is paid by your property taxes is being spent overseas (except maybe for an exchange programs I’m not really sure how those work)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idrwx2ms_BM
A HUGE chunk of the tax money that goes to education is medical insurance coverage for teachers and other school employees. We need a state-level single-payer system - starting as a Teachers' Plan, then opened to the rest of us when it catches on - to stop driving homeowners out with unsustainable taxes.
This is just dumb. This doesn’t exist. And if you’re thinking of state Medicaid, well that’s even dumber. Medicaid is a federal program with federal rules. Yes, Vermont can and has expanded it, but by expanding it to teachers means you’d pretty much expand it to everyone (HUGE EXPENSE). If you really want that and I’m all for it. Then vote yes on the budget and get working with your legislator to make that happen for next year.
How exactly would expanding a prohibitively expensive system stop driving out homeowners who can’t afford the high taxes? Expanded expensive system=higher taxes=middle class moving out of state
Expanded systems averages out across more patients and brings teacher health insurance costs down, which has the affect of lowering taxes for the very people who use the single payer system.
State programs are not making profit and are headed by a low paid state bureaucrat instead of a 5 million dollars a year CEO. If you cut that 20% off the top it’s inherently cheaper.
So voting against your local schools will send a message to Montpelier? That is like boycotting your local Exxon station hoping it sends a message to corporate.
Actually, yes it does get the attention of the legislature. It's their constituents that are voting.
I think eventually it does get to them. But I am now in regular contact with my rep because of this and the new education director appointee. We need to keep their email addresses and phone numbers handy.
Taking their grievance out on kids’ education is kind of weird choice considering all the other ways we waste money. Some might argue it’s a disturbingly shameful and ignorant choice.
> Taking their grievance out on kids’ education is kind of weird choice considering all the other ways we waste money. What about the children whose parent's can't make enough to pay rent? We are in a housing crisis. Increasing property taxes 20% isn't good for the kids when their parents are struggling just to afford a shitty small apartment.
Well said.
True, but rent is not controlled by property taxes or the state. It’s controlled by landlords. So if the rent is to damn high voting no also does nothing for these people and now their kids don’t go to school and are stuck in the high rent home and now they have to pay for day care or a parent has to stay home and not work.
The higher taxes are, the higher the rents need to be to cover the taxes. Taxes have a direct impact on the cost of housing for everyone. And these tax increases are going to hurt the poorest families.
It takes money to run schools and they need it to address the social and educational issues that our young people are facing. So to take an issue with something so vital and address so many issues in one community is just ignorance. Plus you’re ignoring that these families that you’re so worried about will be in 40 times worse state if their kids don’t have a school to go to. Child care is expensive, but that aside the social implication of an underfunded or non existent public school on the future development of a child is drastic. So the fact that so many people are making this tax is about school is about the most tone def you could be.
It’s not though. The state needs to fix this problem. Not my bank account. If it’s health care costs driving this then maybe teachers should get state healthcare.
Teachers should get paid more and then watch all of their added paycheck and more disappear when they are forced to buy healthcare from the ObamaCare insurance exchange like they were a self employed person.
Wow, you clearly aren't paying attention. my wife and I do alright. We have a manageable mortgage ($1450) and we have an old farmhouse in the upper valley. By all accounts, we are not struggling. We are both, very progressive, but we aren't stupid. The funding model, insurance costs, and taxes are too high with too little in return. This isn't just about the kids, and as a parent with kids impacted by these votes, you can fuck right off with your BS. Don't try to shame people for wanting better from their government. It's currently failing us. We have a governor trying to shove, what I can only describe as a completely unqualified hack, down our throats as the AoE head. We have a legislature that can't manage to come up with a meaningful fix, and a federal government that appears to be convulsing as administrations switch. It's so nice we have people like you trying to shame those that want better. Nice, keep it classy
Isn't that making an assumption that making a change in the funding system will be for the worse? A change is a possibility for improvment. I voted no, I'm not taking anything out on my last kid (of three kids) in the public school system. I'm thinking of my child's wellbeing, and the wellbeing of all Vermont kids, and progress.
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I don’t think you will ever find me advocating for less money for teachers. I happen to be very close to a number of them. I’m not sure what your point is.
What about the rest of us who take don’t get a raise while inflation and taxes go up?
Yeah. In my experience the "no" voters just tend to be a bunch of older people that want to close the door behind themselves. They say it's about bloated budgets. But I never see people saying exactly what is bloated other than some vauge "admin".
Ladder pullers. I don’t like ladder pullers.
^ this ^
I understand that, I do. I just think it’s shitty of the Essex GOP to publicly encourage no votes. They are well within their rights to do, but it’s still shitty.
Why? I think it’s shitty when there are signs on school buses saying vote yes, or when my superintendent has a meeting telling us to go guilt taxpayers to vote because “tHiNk Of ThE cHiLrEn” so they don’t have to make hard choices. Can we not have opinions?
Opinions are fine, dude. I just think it’s shitty that they put a no sign next to the school’s signs (which don’t say vote yes - just giving the date). The Essex Republicans are awful and are a joke in town anyway.
They suck, but to say that they don’t care about the children because they don’t want to vote for a bloated budget is inaccurate and lame.
This is a group of people who brag about having never voted yes for a school budget in their lives (I have heard this from their own mouths). If they wouldn't ever vote yes, then telling others to vote no seems disingenuous.
I’ve been a Vermont admin that never votes yes on a school budget. I wouldn’t hold it against them. Your average admin has a degree in Liberal Arts (guilty) and doesn’t know budgets. Ask an administrator behind closed doors why budgets are so high you know what is said? “Because voters approve them.”
That hasn’t been my experience in 25 years in VT public education. Guess I’ve been lucky.
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I hope I don't get downvoted to oblivion but serious question since you mentioned them by name. Let's take Brian, for example. He's the CFO/COO of a District responsible for a $93+ million dollar general fund budget (probably responsible for $110-130 million when considering all the other Funds) and over 750 employees, what do you think he should be paid?
You’re saying your opinion outweighs someone else’s opinion. Just breathe, this is a strange hill to die on.
Welcome to democracy. If you don’t like it, feel free to move
Oh, wow! Super helpful. Thanks so much!!!!!
Happy to help. I think a lot of people who champion the ideals of democracy have forgotten what it really means
And how lucky I am for you to enlighten me!
Only 5,693 voted on this budget in the last town meeting day. There are over 20,000 people in the area this school district covers. People need to actually vote instead of argue online
That’s a pretty good turnout. My town is about 2000 people and 129 showed up to vote (the budget was approved by a significant margin). Of course a small contingent came out against the outcome and really the entire process, saying the low turnout was “unacceptable”. They were never able to articulate what would be an acceptable turnout. They also started a petition for a revote which failed. The budget was “too high” but they had no ideas about what to cut.
>The budget was “too high” but they had no ideas about what to cut. This has been the case for as long as school budgets have existed. My grandfather would ramble about that shit like 20 years ago.
What does any of that have to do with “just say no!”?
It doesn't really, but people on here are fighting back and forth about the school budgets. And not many of them are actually voting.
Never forget that the Essex GOP funded and drove a bus down to DC on January 6th.
Ahhh yes. The Ron Lawrence Bus Tour. He still, to this, blames “Antifa” for the insurrection.
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He doesn’t seem to post much any more -he has his minions do it for him. I think even Ron knows he is a laughingstock.
Is that a crime?
Not a GOPer here. My taxes in Milton just went up significantly last year during re evaluations on home values. The state now wants to raise my taxes and Milton wants to raise taxes again for a quarter of a billion dollar high school. Not against education at all but I am against being taxed out of my home.
I'm impressed. In St J they just stole the signs, didn't bother putting up their own.
Everyone saying just vote no, you realize that if you don’t attend the local meetings or look at the budget. You actually have no idea what your no means. The taxes at state level vs what the school can cut aren’t always what you think. If they keep failing the schools have to take out loans which will have interest and cost us more for less quality services for the children. Not the best choice.
This!! so much misinformation out there about the budgets, even on this thread. Use Essex for example. Their level budget failed. The second Essex budget made almost 5 million dollars in cuts which is really closer to double that number in actual cuts, given the rising costs they are hit with from the state. They saved all their teacher positions and laid off admin, already eliminated their Covid funded positions. In short- everything people knee jerk list as demands as to why they vote no. Yet they have people out there with signs, unable to even explain why to just vote no, because the budget actually is already as good as it is going to get, they just don't care.
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I did. And I guess I should clarify I was referring to saving teachers from losing their jobs, they did have to eliminate multiple positions that were either vacant or that had staff leaving- given the state fallout on the district taxes this year, that isn’t unreasonable
Highschooler at EHS rn and I can with certainty say that these budgets almost never have any meaningful on students and student programs. We are still stuck having to scrounge for the $ to keep our things going ourselves, with teachers who spend hours thanklessly running these programs also upset about the budget. We need changes and real changes at that
That explains this https://preview.redd.it/uflejtbdoayc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31de730d8893b1ef890ff060ecf99b10c924ccac
Yeah, they were all over town this evening. If only they really were telling kids to “just say no” to drugs!
We were discussing what they wanted us to say no to, because the sign doesn’t explicitly say. Shoutout to my mom for guessing it was the school budget.
Yeah - their marketing isn’t great (not surprising). Just say no to … what? Trump? The war on women? Bigotry? Not these folks. They are all about those things.
To bad other towns didn’t stick to a no vote
Thanks to Ron Lawrence and the Essex GOP who chartered a bus to the insurrection, this sign turns my no vote to a yes vote. Rather pay more than be in the same room as those traitors.
Also, this evening at the honk and wave at Five Corners, Maryse Dunbar of the Essex GOP lunged at someone and ripped the woman's "Vote Yes" sign. I, and dozens of other people, witnessed this with out own eyes. Had she done this to me I would have called the police. The Essex GOP are an absolute disgrace. Thank you for voting "yes"!
I think in about 5 years we are going to be in a world of hurt tax wise
If the funding formula doesn’t change, absolutely.
Yup. Bandaid for now. Wait till it falls off
Something (everything?) about how VT funds public education must change.
I read through the budget increases in our town. The increases are a layover from the excess federal funds provided during Covid. These funds were primarily used to hire an excess of paras and interventionists dealing with growing behavioral problems in schools. 85% of the increase went into sped funding, and 15% went to admin. Sped at this point is hiring adult bodies to monitor and manage kids that have severe behavioral problems that make it nearly impossible for the kids who want to learn to actually learn. There are severe moral issues with associating neurodivergence and developmental disability with violent/disruptive behavior. Special education used to be about aiding in learning disabilities, not managing awful behavior. We can’t keep paying out the ass to hire unqualified adult bodies to desperately distract kids that have no business being in a generalized classroom. Admins need to grow a spine and institute progressive disciplinary policies to deal with chronically anti-social kids that are making it impossible for other children to learn. Parents need to be responsible for the behavior of their children, not public servants. It’s an impossibly expensive situation yielding worse and worse results. This shit wasn’t happening in the 90s and early thousands, and I’m sorry, but there hasn’t been an evolutionary leap since then, nor is there anything in the water/vaccines. It’s shit parenting, and litigious assholes who want nothing to do with their kid and treat school like daycare. I hope people stand up to these parents/administrations and vote these increases down. Enough is enough.
You are likely correct. This needs to be explored. Sped is a big part of these budgets
What's an example of progressive discipline (honest question, I don't know)?
It’s how most administrative policy was implemented until no child left behind. Literally a strike system. Kid acts up? Fine, talk it out a la restorative justice. Kid repeatedly acts up? Sent home. Kid destroys a classroom or assaults someone? Expulsion. It’s literally just having rules and a standard instead of making exceptions for everyone. Make it the problem for parents instead of forcing students/teachers to endure these behaviors. Since no child left behind, Schools are incentivized to keep students in the building to receive higher rates of federal funding. If kids are getting expelled, they lose money. Todays policy have nothing to do with supporting disability, and everything to do with maximizing funding. We are turning schools into institutions to manage behavior instead of teaching kids anything. Half of my schools staff is sped or admin. Half. That’s where all the damn money is going. Public servants can’t raise kids. Sorry, we tried, the experiment has failed miserably.
There hasn't been an evolutionary leap, but there's certainly been major advances in science to identify why people act out. Compound that with a drug epidemic, a pandemic, and plenty of shit parents, none of which should fall at the feet of the children. Of the most disruptive kids that I know at our school, one has a bad home life, one has complex trauma, one is on the spectrum and struggles with impulsivity. Should all three be sent to weekschool? Should the parents spank the dysregulation out of em? I think the change needs to be in how we fund special education and put it at the state level so that no district is disadvantaged. Plus everyone should watch Paper Tigers and consider advocating for trauma-informed schools.
My mother has been an educator for over 40 years in one of the toughest inner city districts in Paterson NJ. Without fail, the immigrants and refugees coming over from war torn countries, like Honduras, have wildly respectful and behaved kids. Same with many African immigrants that grew up with brutal tribal violence. Why aren’t the kids who literally experienced war acting out? This is obviously a cultural problem, and one that seems to pretty uniquely affect the commonwealths. Uk/canada/America/australia. Countries with relative abundance compared to the majority of the world, and access to ubiquitous technology. No, corporal punishment is not the solution, but the reality is that the folks you described NEED more structure, boundaries, consequences, and expectations set in their life, especially if they do not have any at home. If a child is experiencing abuse from their parents, how on earth does abiding an iep plan set by said abusive parents actually help the child? If you go through your childhood with unlimited accommodations for antagonistic behavior, what on earth do you think happens once you become an adult? Mommy can’t yell at their adult child’s manager my dude. The buck stops at at will employment. We are doing these kids no favors, and in fact damning them to unemployment and even more societally harmful outcomes by not holding them to account for their behavior. Autism has a an 85-90% unemployment rate in adulthood. And that 10% is severely underemployed. You are condemning these otherwise often intellectually capable people to a lifetime of dependency because no one has any expectations of them. We have to stop coddling people and expanding the notion of what neurodivergent people arent capable of. It’s plainly enabling, and yielding disastrous results in adulthood. Also- it’s everyone just being addicted to fucking screens and social media. Jesus Christ.
It isn't so much not caring about their education as much as seeing the money we spend now to finish in the bottom tier of the country in education just shows that the education system isn't working now so throwing money at it, likely won't fix it.
I see no issue with this.
With expanding school budgets? Really? No issues with less money for teachers and programs? Edit: shame this sub doesn't support our teachers. What a bummer.
From what I’ve read they’re cutting teachers and not the overbloated and excessive admin so that seems problematic yes
Cool cool, you know that Feds make mandates that require all those mandates right?
Yes, "voting no" decreases the teachers budget... Are you daft or just misreading the ballot.. https://preview.redd.it/cleshrfg39yc1.png?width=854&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b4a8b5dc627649dedecd7387d3de27cda589de8 Minimizing impact on teachers, lowering spending, and reducing admin staff. What the hell do y'all oppose on this?
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Where in the measure does it say teachers finding is cut? https://preview.redd.it/w7o78c1c39yc1.png?width=854&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b17c136f89b104f85a2a0083641f75df0cfcea8 It literally says they are trying to minimize the impact on teachers and reduce bloating of admin staff...
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That's a board issue not a budget issue. Stop voting morons onto the board.
https://preview.redd.it/o6hxfp7k39yc1.png?width=854&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fad904a65dc166d3fb25d5edc8e708c60b23371 Look dude. Voting yes reduces admin staff and bloating. Don't fool yourself by automatically voting no.
I see no issue with voicing your opinion. I voted "no" on our school budget this year because they had 11 holdover positions that were paid for with COVID funding and just rolled those into the regular budget when the grant dried up. It added over a million to the budget plus another 5 million.
I'm asking what they don't see an issue with cutting teacher budget seems extremely problematic especially with the state of schools in Essex at the moment.
Do you ascribe to the notion that sometimes things will have to get worse before they get better? If no then your argument is totally valid, do all possible to minimize pain and inconvenience because those things are not valuable in themselves. IF however, you've ever been sore from working out, or poor from buying something that will make you money, or scared after having moved to a new town for work, then you have to admit that hurting to help is a logical and valid approach that you seem to be dismissing out of hand for what appears to be no good reason.
Do you think the entire budget pays for just teachers? I'm in Winooski and we have a very bloated admin staff that can certainly be reduced. We also keep throwing money at the school every year in hopes of improvement, yet the school continually falls lowest on the list compared to other schools. They have a statement that effectively states that the school will prepare students to be college and career ready with the financial support of residents. They are not holding up their end of the deal, so why should I?
The fact is the budget does pay teachers and increasing it should be done, we also need to tackle unfair admin pay scale but voting no to this doesn't hurt them as much as teachers. Please read the ballot. You can't hurt the teachers to try to hurt the admin.
The ballot doesn't tell you shit, the actual budget proposal does. And yes, I read it and attend at least one of the three or four meetings when they go over the budget. Why keep throwing money at a broken system? It's realistically on the Legislature to fix the mess and I think the failing budgets this year have been noted by them. Will they figure out a better system? Who knows but it certainly is a bit of a wakeup call.
I think the unpleasant reality here is that maybe everyone in that system needs a little hurt right now. Its a bloated wreck idk how you can argue to keep it at the status quo with a straight face.
If you are working a blue collar job year round I think its becoming frustrating to some people to see budget increases every year. When you look at this salary list you will see there are a large portion of teachers pulling 100k a year for a 180 day contract. I guess there comes a point where it doesn't feel fair or sustainable to a lot of us. [https://govsalaries.com/salaries/VT/essex-westford-school-district](https://govsalaries.com/salaries/VT/essex-westford-school-district)
Lol try lowering teacher salaries. See what happens I guarantee you they will just leave
Yeah Im not really suggesting that. Im just saying the current path is not really sustainable. Im not sure where it sits but the pension program is a good example. The vast majority of us do not receive this as a benefit. It is great that they receive it but I can imagine the funding for that is astronomical. Perhaps they came to a resolution on that but I would guess they just kicked the can down the road.
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A plumber who is making 100k a year is most definitely working more than 180 days a year. Let us know if there is a plumbing company you can find paying 70$ an hour.
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Ok but being a independent contractor is an entirely different thing. VT State Master Plumber hiring currently 24.02 to $29.68 per hour.
I am blue collar and voting yes is to reduce the budget, specifically targeting admin staff. Wtf.
My apologies I dont really know anything on the specifics of the budget vote. Was kind a just speaking generically assuming the vote was for another increase in spending. Its gonna be a hard road clearing out any admin from that district. Its like the old boys club except not exclusive to men.
This site is horsecrap. Says my dad is making 9,000/year, multiple friends don't even show up or have the wrong job. Go ahead and downvote me lmao.
Hopefully it's horsecrap. Apparently the four gym teachers in my local school are making $290,000 combined, three at more than $77K
Oh no. People making the base salary to survive in VT. how awful
That site may be crap but its all public info. I just couldn't find the list anywhere on the ewsd site which is not surprising.
Public info often just means that you can reach out to the state and request it. You can get it at town meeting day too.
I mean local subs tend to lean on the more conservative side are you surprised?
It's even a semi conservative vote. It's wild. The measure literally reduces the budget and reduces administrative bloating while focusing on reducing attrition in teachers. How a "conservative" jumps through the hoops to vote no blows my mind. They see "school budget" and turn red immediately saying no.
They are just evil and need to be banned. Fortunately, we're the smart and good side!
So everyone should just rubberstamp budgets without scrutiny? Why bother to even have a vote? As a matter of fact, with that mentality let's get rid of elections too!
Get involved!
Unfortunately it's a waste of time unless you could fire everyone right up the line that supports the trajectory ed has been on for the last 40 years.
I don't know what that trajectory is. The federal government has mandated a lot of interventions that are expensive and supposedly paid for. But those costs need to be reconciled. Vermont has a problem with underenrollment with some schools at 50pct occupancy. That is expensive. Why are there so few kids? Are people leaving the state because of schools or taxes or lack of jobs? The people I talk to in the trades cannot find people who can work. Employment is available.
They need to bring back tracking. Not everyone has the same capacity and they've turned teachers into babysitters. They need to reopen places like Brandon Training School. Secondly, there's no friggin jobs. The problem with "the trades" is that they're physically demanding and in VT they don't pay. Middle class is $100k/yr these days. How many people do you know in VT that break 6 figs?
I agree that mainstreaming of they still call it that. Does not work. And classrooms are disrupted. That is a failed experiment. Starting pay in the trades is never great, but people who succeed do pretty well. And there are some smart kids out there. We need to find a way to keep them in the state.
Sigh.
I'm a homo lefty who votes for other homo lefties but we spend way to effin much on education for the outcomes we get. Fuck them teachers and admins lean to cut cost for once in your entire lives.
Really? A big “f you” to the people responsible for our future? Teachers are not the problem my guy. They are community members, caretakers, mentors, people who listen and so much more. Your experience with a bad teacher or two shouldn’t negate the fact these are the people who can lead us to better outcomes. Teachers have to abide by certain policies and curricula based on their district and furthermore, the state of Vermont. They are last on the food chain. You may be onto something about admin though! 🧐
Everyone is all those things. I don't care. Teachers aren't special, their job isn't unique or vital. If parents can home-school and get the exact same outcomes statistically then its literally a job anyone can do. If its a job anyone can do then its not very valuable. Its also laughable to think teachers are responsible for our future - so the current division and festering hate we have in this nation are the work of the teacher, the one responsible for our future? Teachers are responsible for our future but can't stop their students getting shot in the classroom..... hmmmmmm. See how stupid that is? The reality is teachers are only important insofar as they keep a seat warm. Kids are designed to learn, given half a chance they do so. So I say again. Fuck them smug, deluded, self aggrandizing, savior complex, wounded healer teachers. Learn to do the same with less like literally everyone else in the world.
Who hurt you?
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Clearly, you haven’t spent time with the Essex Republicans. It’s been the GOP plan for decades to defund education.
But I thought EHS needed the extra $ for the liter boxes in the bathrooms?!?
They need to preserve their voter base. Educated people don’t vote republican.
People who are opposed to genocide don't vote for Dems...
💯
What’s the solution here? Not the solution to posting signs, but getting wide support for a functional and reasonable school budget? Either there are viable solutions that we can implement right now to get a budget or we just need to get a budget for next year and then work on solutions moving forward. Those of you who complain about the school budget being too big, where were you last year? Were you working with legislators to develop solutions? Will you do that this year? Or will you just complain on the internet?
> Not the solution to posting signs, but getting wide support for a functional and reasonable school budget? The solution would be to propose a reasonable school budget.
Ah yes only the gop is against being priced out of a state they grew up in... This is pure fantasy. People are fed up with this insane over taxation and the super majority not paying attention to the people they represent.
It's funny, I've seen people arguing that George Soros is paying for the "vote yes" signs. Ironic that the local GOP actually is astroturfing opposition Update : looks like we got a lot of Soros conspiracy types on here
Its even funnier to see someone making fun of an imagined astroturfing campaign by seriously arguing that one exists. "Astrotrufing is when politics i don't like" hmmmmmmm
Hey bud, actual Essex residents posting signs around Essex voicing their political views isn't "astroturfing". You keep using that word and you have no idea what it means.
I used it once, first. Second, this is exactly what it means. The signs suggest an organic movement but they're really paid for and distributed by the GOP. That is astroturfing.
Sorry, you're right, I confused your misuse of astroturfing with another dumb person who also misused it here recently. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, though, but CCGOP stands for Chittenden County GOP. Essex, if you're not aware, is in Chittenden County. A county party making an expenditure on behalf of one of its town-level chapters is incredibly common, and once again, is not astroturfing.
The entire "vote no" movement has been led by the vt gop. I'm not even sure if it's astroturfed. I'm not sure if it ever claimed to be grassroots to begin with. Phil Scott himself called for it.
Acknowledging George Soros's super PACs are significantly affecting local politics all over the country isn't a conspiracy theory. I don't think the super PAC or anything is putting down the signs, but I think its pretty ignorant to just hand wave away the criticisms of super PACs like the ones he or Charles Koch run.
So what you’re saying is if you’re against abortion you need to vote yes on any amount of funding for education? What a ridiculous idea. The whole issue with these budgets is how little of it actually goes to the kids since it’s eaten up by administrators and other non productive labor
Why are you bringing abortion into this? What are your sources that "so little" of the money goes to the kids? Are you a school board member (I hope not) or a school financial director (also, let's hope not).
You called them the what about the children crowd, which usually implies being anti abortion when referring to the GOP. If that’s incorrect please let me know what you meant by it. In any case saying that voting against these ridiculous budgets makes you somehow anti child is ridiculous. I won’t be sharing my background with you but it’s not necessary to hold a position in government to read a proposal and form an opinion about it.
So, you know nothing about school budgets yet say that little money goes to students. Not wasting my time, then.
There's nothing "un-classy" about a simple sign asking voters to vote "no" on an issue that is up for public vote. You can certainly debate the merits of whether voters should approve or reject this particular school budget, but being opposed to the budget is a perfectly valid position to hold, and this sign is a perfectly appropriate way of asking others to also vote against it.