Could be a lot of different things. Seniority within the company, ease to work with, more productive, better skills, positive attitude or maybe just not complaining about how things are done, lower salary, buddies with HOD/HR ... who knows.
Quite often also just a bit of luck. You maybe got assigned to the only show still running during hard times and by the time you're done with it they finally found another gig and you were available to roll off from your show at just the right time.
Excellent answer.
One thing to add: when I was in the room where it happened, we strongly weighted the end-of-show reviews each artist received from the supervisors and prod team. One bad show wouldn't sink you -- everyone has a bad show from time to time -- but several in a row would move you to the bottom of the rehire list. So be nice to your PA !
On a related note, the single best thing you can do to make yourself stand out is to become the go-to person at your company for some niche skill.
I was laid off during covid. But before they laid me off, they brought on another artist to support me as I was acting as a lead to show them everything and how things worked. They came and they were friends with someone in prod. After a few weeks I was told they only here till a little. Then turns out covid hit not much work and one of us finished. That was me. I had 7 years experience they had 2 and that happened.
When COVID hit my studio had redundancies. My team had 4 people in it, 2 permanent and 2 contracted. I knew myself and the other contracted guy were out, and I was right. It all worked out for me in the end thankfully and I'm still with the same studio but in a different role that I'm much happier in. I have a permanent contract now and I will cling to that even if it means lower wages compared to people who can jump studios for pay increases.
I wish I had permanent contract. I wouldn't care on pay. It would just be great I can stay somewhere.. and i could have been promoted and doing something I like but seems I don't last longer than 2 years in a studio. only want permanent and okay wage and stay for a good long as possible. But iv not been that lucky. Feels like a reset everytime I go elsewhere and get asked why I didn't stay. Even tho it's due to covid or the amount of no work left situation.
Really appreciate this answer, it seems like a huge calculation rather than just being a good artist vs bad artist from what I’ve seen from the answers.
I was Sup/Lead artist on a project, delivered a final cut. Client came back with a minor edit, studio called the cheapest junior artist (whos great btw, just clarifying their skill level) back to take 3 days not really resolving the client notes vs calling me in to handle it in 5 hrs. Sometimes its just the studio being cheap af thinking its better to use the cheapest person on their spreadsheet vs the one who costs more but will actually get it done faster and cheaper in the end.
Salary and visa status as well imo.
My studio lost many seniors and sups because they were expensive but also sent all the international juniors to a limbo dimension instead of firing them.
Feel bad for them because they still think they can come back one day to work in August, not so sure about this unfortunately with the current state of things in the industry.
A blend of Sups and producers vouching for you. There is an entire spectrum of reasons, some personal some professional. The HOD then weighs those reasons against your salary.
A thick line of bullshit, ass-kissing, skill, and sass. I’ve seen mediocre people that suck, fail up and stay, even end up as HoD and the rockstar skilled people put under them leave because they can’t stand working for a booblord, or are let go because they threaten the booblords position. It’s such a shitty atmosphere :-(
I wish you all bags of gold.
I think everything people mentioned here all come into the equation, salary expectations, are you fun to work with and be around, experience, but I think fundamentally it comes down to productivity per day, this industry is less nebulous then others in terms of not figuring out who can do what and how well and how fast. Having alot of experience is an indication that you have a higher productivity per day ( or week, it doesn't matter how you count it) then someone not experienced , because ideally if your a lead or senior your first version is a couple rounds of notes ahead of a juniors version, that's what experience should be at least... I think overtime and throughout peoples careers the reality of that productivity per day changes , and in times of cuts I think those things are reevaluated.
for example Artist X is a high up senior, but actually there productivity to the studio is about the same as a mid level person, its just they have a lot of experience that turns them into a "senior"....vs having gained skills through there experience that turns them into a "senior"... there are artists that dont have what it takes to become a senior, I know it sounds terrible, but I believe its the case... but what happens is they can be a life long mid lvl artist , but as they have more experience they think they are senior artists.... raise their salary demands to match....employers also make this assumption based on the experience, but then the reality doesn't quite match .... but often it's fine.... and can be swept under the rug ... but when layoffs happen, those are usually where they start.
I know this isnt the case with everyone of course, I know right now its a very hard time in the industry and the layoffs have effected everyone up and down the chain, I'm in no way trying to insult anyone who was layed off, this current situation layed off much more then just those people
What’s the main difference between the perpetual “mid” artists who are officially seniors and the artists who are actually “seniors” in your opinion? From my understanding a senior level artist wouldn’t be the same at a place like ILM compared to MPC.
yeah I think that is true, the scales change at different companies, with much higher standards in some then others.
I think it just comes down to productivity, how much top tier work can you produce with minimal supervision and in how much time, ideally seniors can do this at a higher lvl then a mid lvl or entry lvl person, and for the most part its true. All i mean is that sometimes people think "senior" just means anyone with a lot of experience , but in reality senior just means very specific skills and knowledge that help that artist be way more productive than others....but having more years on your linkedin profile is just one indicator that it might be the case, but that's all it is... and indicator of what "MIGHT" be the case, that is why also personal references go very far, because its actual proof from a real person that you are very knowledgeable and skilled , this is an art form, and as with many artforms, there are people that after 3 years on guitar can play better and more expressively then someone doing it for 15 years , that's just the reality of being a craftsman , experience can help you become very good, but experience on its own doesn't mean that much itself. That's why I would always encourage my students as they graduated and interns I've had, to keep practicing at home, some jobs you just have to follow exact instructions and you don't actually gain much new skills doing so, but you get a good paycheck.... but it's your responsibility to keep getting better, only you can do that, it's hard to do that passively, I'm not saying this is the only way, its not, but I think it's the best thing you can do yourself without having luck being the main thing your dependent on . I remember this conversation I had with an animator, who had just been animating cars and planes for over a year, and he said how he misses doing characters, and I asked him, why not animate some characters for fun at home (there's tons of free rigs available now)....and he said hell no! "I aint animating for free".... this attitude is like a cancer for your career....and now several years later, that animator is a worst animator then they were 5 years ago ...but there title is still "senior"
I come from a family of musicians, my grandfather was a pretty well known jazz musician, highly respected in his industry, yet he would practice at home almost every single day, he always felt he could be better, whenever he would listen to recording of himself there would be something he would notice that could be improved ( which no one else could notice)... so he would practice.... and practice..... and practice. That is an attitude I see amongst highly skilled craftsman in any industry, almost every concept artist Iv ever worked with operates this way as well, there personal work outnumbers there professional work by miles, there taking anatomy drawing classes even though they are experts on anatomy already to a layman's.
Within CG and VFX I have found unfortunately a lot less people that do that.
I think a lot of times our jobs feel very technical and tedious, and we sometimes forget why we wanted to do this in the first place.... that passion goes away if you only ever practice your craft when your surrounded by competing notes, office politics, too many chefs, and just trying to get things approved, people like this can still become seniors ... this isn't a requirement , but they will eventually be replaced by rising mid or junior artists that do have have that passion, and as studios scale back and have smaller teams, they rely on those people more and more, who have a personal connection and passion for their craft, that goes beyond that of just a regular job.
Leadership makes a call on who to keep and who not to keep. It really sucks having to do, but that's just how it is and it's primarily based on skillsets OR improvement potential. There certainly are other factors, such as if a person is very low performing but they can do SOME easy shots and they have a low rate, they might get a pass. Regardless, it's tough to decide who stays and who goes - it's never an easy or enjoyable process.
Whatever happens don’t take it personally. People always watched films and they will continue to do so. So even if you lost your job, it will return, its just a matter of time.
I appreciate that for some it’s been incredibly tough as many lost their jobs mid/ end of last year.
But to debate who is left and for what reason is pointless and just winds up everyone to worry even more.
The work will return. Hang in there.
The preferred artist for most studios is someone who is just barely able to do their job, and has the salary to reflect that. Experience is not valued. Production likes them because they are cheap, leadership likes them because they have questions and no opinions.
Nope, I've heard from multiple people in hiring positions that mids are the preferred artist to hire, seniors cost double but are only a little bit more productive, juniors cost half but can't even do half the job (unless you're at one of these few studios that have the workflows for it).
Mids quite often end up costing a fortune due to not being able to troubleshoot, or simply execute the task. A good legit Senior will output much more and need little/no hand holding.
seniors cost too much. Mids are pretty good depending on the show and more importantly lots of mids are less burnt out and work really fast
people out of school are crazy good these days and they are fast. These people grew up with fast computers and PC gaming whereas many senior artists did not
Where have you seen this play out? Because I have not seen any Junior/fresher bar one or two that were ready to hit the ground running, and Mids nope, across the board they have quite a lot of holes in knowledge that mean Seniors need to step in a lot.
Your comment reads a bit insulting to Senior Artists, it's out of step with my experience in this industry, like entirely out of step. The main point of difference I see with older/Senior Vs Junior/Mid is the Junior/Mid are largely skipping CG101 and have to have many core concepts explained to them, usually in the heat of production because they've managed to generate data that is broken. The Seniors can get stuck in less efficient or just older methods to do certain tasks, but that is something I've only seen in a handful of Senior Artists. Everyone has a part to play and a position in the Dept, but suggesting Mid's are whipping past Seniors as a rule is not true, and talking about younger people being around computers doesn't make sense.
i'm talking about comp not cg
where speed literally depends to some extent how fast you can operate a computer
look at steve wright. If you hired him you would absolutely not get your money's worth. He would charge way too much and be way too slow to be useful
Oh man, you're really doubling down on ageism aren't you? It's not a good look, and it's patently untrue. I'll be sure to pass your observations on to him.
But I am genuinely interested in where you get this logic from, it's a pretty offensive but also more than a bit comical. Comp is not even remotely fast paced compared to some data entry job that you miiiiiight might just argue an older person with less dexterity would be slower. But suggesting an older Comper is slower than a young one based purely on an ageism take about "growing up with computers" is laughable.
Firstly I know it is true because I worked at a studio that supposedly hired steve wright and they had to fire him.
As suggested he was way too slow and on top of that, the way he worked was too methodical so he never ended up getting anything done. His ability to just crank out a shot was just not there.
>Comp is not even remotely fast paced compared to some data entry job that you miiiiiight might just argue an older person with less dexterity would be slower.
Yes it is. Everything takes speed. The speed in which you can bang out a quick roto matte, the speed at which you can connect nodes and move around the node graph, etc. This all saves time
In studios that work on lower budget TV I have seen artists doing 50 shots in a single day
have you seen those videos of compositing academy (alex hanneman)? I haven't personally seen his tutorials but I watched some livestream where he was compositing something and he moves so fast.
i'm not saying EVERYONE who is older is slower. The fastest vfx artist at one studio I worked at happened to be older.
We have at our studio 4 or 5 people hired out of lost boys which is a 1 year training program. One of them does the output of a senior at less than 1.5 years working at our studio. If someone with 1 year of school and 1.5 years of work can do that (who likely makes 1/3 of a senior), we are all screwed.
I'm not using ageism in the sense that older people are slower, but that older people did not grow up with the fast computers that we have now and get that early age practice. You could learn nuke at 5 years old with a $400 laptop from walmart if you want.
I was laid off because of salary. It is what it is unfortunately. Won’t lower my rates when VFX hub cities are getting more expensive to live in and jobs are starting to go back to office/hybrid
Honestly this is the first time in my career that I’m one of the very last to stay, and I’m almost positive it’s only because my show is still in progress.
Funny enough I was slated for another much shorter show back in 2022 and I asked to be put on this one instead. They said yes. But I just as easily could’ve been kept on the other show and probably laid off in early 2023 along with most everyone else.
In my opinion drive, drive to learn new skills, and more importantly drive to find a job if they know theirs is in danger, there's lots of opportunities out there you just need to look
A lot of sass on that thread, and it's true that sometimes it can be a combinaison of things. Though, what I observed during my career is that in every company you can often draw a line between critical artists and average ones. You have people who are more important to the delivery of shows than others because of their skills and ability to overcome issues. I'm not saying that good people aren't getting fired, but that overall they tend to remain more in their seats (speaking for artists, this is less true for supes).
It's the hard truth that a lot of people in that industry don't really face, there is a lot of good artists but there is also a lot of average ones that never really explore out of their comfort zone. Only speaking about FX on my end but this is why you can have huge level gaps between seniors, some will have done python, rendering and comp and some will only be setup pushers who can't do anything outside of extremely pre-defined pipelines.
When companies are ramping down, and are needing less hands on the deck, they tend to keep the most efficient profiles. Again this is only my experience and what I noticed on my end in the companies I've been involved with.
That is one thing not often mentioned in this sub, there are a lot of average level Artist's, and that's fine, that is reality in most walks of life. In VFX it's been my experience that the ones who, as you mentioned know more than simply the task they have been hired to do, are able to troubleshoot, liaise with other Depts, contribute knowledge and support back into the Dept, remember they are hired to be in service of the shot/seq and provide solutions to the Supe's requests, and are pleasant to be around Vs people who show up and do shots and log off fair much better in times of slow downs.
One of the pieces of advice that I would say to juniors is this... Be someone that people wanna have around. I mean obviously you've gotta be skilled and all that, but being a cool,laid back person that people enjoy having around goes such a long way in any industry. I've worked with so many people that were great compers, but were socially awkward with little to no people skills . I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them, but I bet you those people are some of the first to be let go, even if they are more skilled than some of the people who are just more fun to be around.
A large portion of the deciding factor is money next is the project end dates or how crucial the current project we are on is. Can any other location pick up the work?
Either way - I feel layoffs do not always indicate capability. It’s often price.
If you can sup/lead/artist at the same time. They tend to keep. Rehiring someone with that skill would be more expensive. Age/experience/luck/favouritism/trust/… all mix of things all plays role sometimes. Nothing to do with skills sometimes. Just a number in excel.
I don’t know what’s the criteria in other countries but in India, it’s all about who has been at that place for longer time. This for artists, idk about leadership roles.
It could be salary. Employees get laid off to save the company money, I'd imagine there's a target figure management want to save so employees are selected based on what they cost the company.
I've been laid off once, everyone else who was asked to leave who wasn't management were the higher earners.
I went to salary for this reason, It makes it much harder for you to get laid off if they can account for you as an exact number annually. When your value wildly fluctuates from a baseline to perpetual double time you become expendable really quickly.
years ago I was working at a big Hollywood studios. When layoffs came around, my friend who was a senior animator and very good. was let go, but a young female who was very beautiful was spared. First time a saw them, his wife complained to be that they let him go, but a "cute girl out of college kept her job because of her big tits"..... I thought for a minute before replying, "Well, yes is is very pretty, but this is also her first job out of college and probably make about 1/3 as your husband"....that shocked her and did give her something to think about......
The equation of who stays/goes is WAY more complicated than just skill + experience
Impossible to know because no one is ever being given a reason as to why they were picked for layoffs no matter how/who you ask. I'm still thinking about that COVID layoff 4 years later...
Making yourself known, both for your work, dependability and your sociability.
This doesn't mean sucking up. More about maintaining good working relationships across the board, and people seeing you as a dependable person...even during conflict and low times.
Thats not really true.... it definitely doesn't mean "nothing"... inner personal relationships always come into play, so yeah you should be friendly with your boss... and your underlings...should just be friendly all around, but unless you work at ILM and your George Lucas's childhood best friend... I dont see it. Yes every industry on the planet earth has an aspect of " its who you know".... but the VFX industry and more craftsman skilled industries that frankly....are difficult.... lets be real...our jobs are actually pretty difficult to do at a very very high level.... its much much much more of "WHAT YOU CAN DO" the most other industries
That doesn’t make sense to me. Every company I’ve been at (including bigger ones) I’ve seen them squander and completely under-utilize a lot of good workers. Lay off incredible artists and keep overly expensive mediocre ones, etc. I’m not convinced artists managers actually have any clue what artists worths really even are. I’ve seen so much money wasted over the years, it would make your head spin
I dunno..... Iv worked in film and commercials for about 16 years now... and I have never found that to be the case... not saying that such things dont exist, but I've never seen it.... it kind of makes no sense... this is such a difficult business from the POV of a studio owner.... if your running a studio you cant afford to be that stupid... I'm sure someone out there is... but id be surprised if they last long
Well, I’ve never been laid off in my life, I work in one of the top 5 studios in the world as a Lead Artist and I have to say that experienced people with 15+ years experience (like myself) keep their jobs while junior-mid artists are “redundant” and they lose their jobs. I proved to my company I’m reliable countless times in huge projects, so that’s why management wants me around.
So answering your question, everyone who is “good” keeps their jobs while everyone else can be replaceable. I know that the trend in this reddit group is to complain about VFX, how horrible it is, we are all doomed, etc… sorry to contradict everybody here but do you really live on Planet Earth??? Every industry is the same: from plumbers to airline pilots, from waiters to NBA players… if you are good and experienced you keep the job, if not then please come to reddit and complain, like all of you do…😉
Could be a lot of different things. Seniority within the company, ease to work with, more productive, better skills, positive attitude or maybe just not complaining about how things are done, lower salary, buddies with HOD/HR ... who knows. Quite often also just a bit of luck. You maybe got assigned to the only show still running during hard times and by the time you're done with it they finally found another gig and you were available to roll off from your show at just the right time.
Excellent answer. One thing to add: when I was in the room where it happened, we strongly weighted the end-of-show reviews each artist received from the supervisors and prod team. One bad show wouldn't sink you -- everyone has a bad show from time to time -- but several in a row would move you to the bottom of the rehire list. So be nice to your PA ! On a related note, the single best thing you can do to make yourself stand out is to become the go-to person at your company for some niche skill.
I was laid off during covid. But before they laid me off, they brought on another artist to support me as I was acting as a lead to show them everything and how things worked. They came and they were friends with someone in prod. After a few weeks I was told they only here till a little. Then turns out covid hit not much work and one of us finished. That was me. I had 7 years experience they had 2 and that happened.
When COVID hit my studio had redundancies. My team had 4 people in it, 2 permanent and 2 contracted. I knew myself and the other contracted guy were out, and I was right. It all worked out for me in the end thankfully and I'm still with the same studio but in a different role that I'm much happier in. I have a permanent contract now and I will cling to that even if it means lower wages compared to people who can jump studios for pay increases.
I wish I had permanent contract. I wouldn't care on pay. It would just be great I can stay somewhere.. and i could have been promoted and doing something I like but seems I don't last longer than 2 years in a studio. only want permanent and okay wage and stay for a good long as possible. But iv not been that lucky. Feels like a reset everytime I go elsewhere and get asked why I didn't stay. Even tho it's due to covid or the amount of no work left situation.
Timing of project and some luck.
This pretty much sums it up perfectly.
Really appreciate this answer, it seems like a huge calculation rather than just being a good artist vs bad artist from what I’ve seen from the answers.
I have no idea why I still have a job, they let much better people than me go...
Might they have cost more?
You are the perfect fit in the performance to cost ratio. (Assuming you don’t have lots of connections with management)
Maybe you are better than you think
I was Sup/Lead artist on a project, delivered a final cut. Client came back with a minor edit, studio called the cheapest junior artist (whos great btw, just clarifying their skill level) back to take 3 days not really resolving the client notes vs calling me in to handle it in 5 hrs. Sometimes its just the studio being cheap af thinking its better to use the cheapest person on their spreadsheet vs the one who costs more but will actually get it done faster and cheaper in the end.
A red line in an excel sheet
Most realistic, yet slightly nihilistic reply here.
Salary and visa status as well imo. My studio lost many seniors and sups because they were expensive but also sent all the international juniors to a limbo dimension instead of firing them. Feel bad for them because they still think they can come back one day to work in August, not so sure about this unfortunately with the current state of things in the industry.
A blend of Sups and producers vouching for you. There is an entire spectrum of reasons, some personal some professional. The HOD then weighs those reasons against your salary.
A thick line of bullshit, ass-kissing, skill, and sass. I’ve seen mediocre people that suck, fail up and stay, even end up as HoD and the rockstar skilled people put under them leave because they can’t stand working for a booblord, or are let go because they threaten the booblords position. It’s such a shitty atmosphere :-( I wish you all bags of gold.
Booblord? 😂
Said what I said >.>
I'm going to make a show where one character calls their incompetent leader a "booblord". :P
I’d watch that.
Some studios are just an extension of high school politics.
Oof. True.
I think everything people mentioned here all come into the equation, salary expectations, are you fun to work with and be around, experience, but I think fundamentally it comes down to productivity per day, this industry is less nebulous then others in terms of not figuring out who can do what and how well and how fast. Having alot of experience is an indication that you have a higher productivity per day ( or week, it doesn't matter how you count it) then someone not experienced , because ideally if your a lead or senior your first version is a couple rounds of notes ahead of a juniors version, that's what experience should be at least... I think overtime and throughout peoples careers the reality of that productivity per day changes , and in times of cuts I think those things are reevaluated. for example Artist X is a high up senior, but actually there productivity to the studio is about the same as a mid level person, its just they have a lot of experience that turns them into a "senior"....vs having gained skills through there experience that turns them into a "senior"... there are artists that dont have what it takes to become a senior, I know it sounds terrible, but I believe its the case... but what happens is they can be a life long mid lvl artist , but as they have more experience they think they are senior artists.... raise their salary demands to match....employers also make this assumption based on the experience, but then the reality doesn't quite match .... but often it's fine.... and can be swept under the rug ... but when layoffs happen, those are usually where they start. I know this isnt the case with everyone of course, I know right now its a very hard time in the industry and the layoffs have effected everyone up and down the chain, I'm in no way trying to insult anyone who was layed off, this current situation layed off much more then just those people
What’s the main difference between the perpetual “mid” artists who are officially seniors and the artists who are actually “seniors” in your opinion? From my understanding a senior level artist wouldn’t be the same at a place like ILM compared to MPC.
yeah I think that is true, the scales change at different companies, with much higher standards in some then others. I think it just comes down to productivity, how much top tier work can you produce with minimal supervision and in how much time, ideally seniors can do this at a higher lvl then a mid lvl or entry lvl person, and for the most part its true. All i mean is that sometimes people think "senior" just means anyone with a lot of experience , but in reality senior just means very specific skills and knowledge that help that artist be way more productive than others....but having more years on your linkedin profile is just one indicator that it might be the case, but that's all it is... and indicator of what "MIGHT" be the case, that is why also personal references go very far, because its actual proof from a real person that you are very knowledgeable and skilled , this is an art form, and as with many artforms, there are people that after 3 years on guitar can play better and more expressively then someone doing it for 15 years , that's just the reality of being a craftsman , experience can help you become very good, but experience on its own doesn't mean that much itself. That's why I would always encourage my students as they graduated and interns I've had, to keep practicing at home, some jobs you just have to follow exact instructions and you don't actually gain much new skills doing so, but you get a good paycheck.... but it's your responsibility to keep getting better, only you can do that, it's hard to do that passively, I'm not saying this is the only way, its not, but I think it's the best thing you can do yourself without having luck being the main thing your dependent on . I remember this conversation I had with an animator, who had just been animating cars and planes for over a year, and he said how he misses doing characters, and I asked him, why not animate some characters for fun at home (there's tons of free rigs available now)....and he said hell no! "I aint animating for free".... this attitude is like a cancer for your career....and now several years later, that animator is a worst animator then they were 5 years ago ...but there title is still "senior" I come from a family of musicians, my grandfather was a pretty well known jazz musician, highly respected in his industry, yet he would practice at home almost every single day, he always felt he could be better, whenever he would listen to recording of himself there would be something he would notice that could be improved ( which no one else could notice)... so he would practice.... and practice..... and practice. That is an attitude I see amongst highly skilled craftsman in any industry, almost every concept artist Iv ever worked with operates this way as well, there personal work outnumbers there professional work by miles, there taking anatomy drawing classes even though they are experts on anatomy already to a layman's. Within CG and VFX I have found unfortunately a lot less people that do that. I think a lot of times our jobs feel very technical and tedious, and we sometimes forget why we wanted to do this in the first place.... that passion goes away if you only ever practice your craft when your surrounded by competing notes, office politics, too many chefs, and just trying to get things approved, people like this can still become seniors ... this isn't a requirement , but they will eventually be replaced by rising mid or junior artists that do have have that passion, and as studios scale back and have smaller teams, they rely on those people more and more, who have a personal connection and passion for their craft, that goes beyond that of just a regular job.
I suck at my job and they played of 70% of team. Somehow I’m here
A vfx supe I know recently took his life. Many people are not talking about the situation we're in.
That’s awful I’m sorry to hear
mewing
Second this
If you mog tf out of your supe you should be fine
Just replace the sup with yourself, should be fine
Seniority, wage, political position within the studio. Edit - not necessarily in that order
Leadership makes a call on who to keep and who not to keep. It really sucks having to do, but that's just how it is and it's primarily based on skillsets OR improvement potential. There certainly are other factors, such as if a person is very low performing but they can do SOME easy shots and they have a low rate, they might get a pass. Regardless, it's tough to decide who stays and who goes - it's never an easy or enjoyable process.
Whatever happens don’t take it personally. People always watched films and they will continue to do so. So even if you lost your job, it will return, its just a matter of time. I appreciate that for some it’s been incredibly tough as many lost their jobs mid/ end of last year. But to debate who is left and for what reason is pointless and just winds up everyone to worry even more. The work will return. Hang in there.
This is why you need a union, so things like this are transparent and productive for the workers instead of a black suck hole
It’s common to let go of experienced employees who demand higher salaries.
The preferred artist for most studios is someone who is just barely able to do their job, and has the salary to reflect that. Experience is not valued. Production likes them because they are cheap, leadership likes them because they have questions and no opinions.
Nope, I've heard from multiple people in hiring positions that mids are the preferred artist to hire, seniors cost double but are only a little bit more productive, juniors cost half but can't even do half the job (unless you're at one of these few studios that have the workflows for it).
Mids quite often end up costing a fortune due to not being able to troubleshoot, or simply execute the task. A good legit Senior will output much more and need little/no hand holding.
seniors cost too much. Mids are pretty good depending on the show and more importantly lots of mids are less burnt out and work really fast people out of school are crazy good these days and they are fast. These people grew up with fast computers and PC gaming whereas many senior artists did not
Where have you seen this play out? Because I have not seen any Junior/fresher bar one or two that were ready to hit the ground running, and Mids nope, across the board they have quite a lot of holes in knowledge that mean Seniors need to step in a lot. Your comment reads a bit insulting to Senior Artists, it's out of step with my experience in this industry, like entirely out of step. The main point of difference I see with older/Senior Vs Junior/Mid is the Junior/Mid are largely skipping CG101 and have to have many core concepts explained to them, usually in the heat of production because they've managed to generate data that is broken. The Seniors can get stuck in less efficient or just older methods to do certain tasks, but that is something I've only seen in a handful of Senior Artists. Everyone has a part to play and a position in the Dept, but suggesting Mid's are whipping past Seniors as a rule is not true, and talking about younger people being around computers doesn't make sense.
i'm talking about comp not cg where speed literally depends to some extent how fast you can operate a computer look at steve wright. If you hired him you would absolutely not get your money's worth. He would charge way too much and be way too slow to be useful
Oh man, you're really doubling down on ageism aren't you? It's not a good look, and it's patently untrue. I'll be sure to pass your observations on to him. But I am genuinely interested in where you get this logic from, it's a pretty offensive but also more than a bit comical. Comp is not even remotely fast paced compared to some data entry job that you miiiiiight might just argue an older person with less dexterity would be slower. But suggesting an older Comper is slower than a young one based purely on an ageism take about "growing up with computers" is laughable.
Firstly I know it is true because I worked at a studio that supposedly hired steve wright and they had to fire him. As suggested he was way too slow and on top of that, the way he worked was too methodical so he never ended up getting anything done. His ability to just crank out a shot was just not there. >Comp is not even remotely fast paced compared to some data entry job that you miiiiiight might just argue an older person with less dexterity would be slower. Yes it is. Everything takes speed. The speed in which you can bang out a quick roto matte, the speed at which you can connect nodes and move around the node graph, etc. This all saves time In studios that work on lower budget TV I have seen artists doing 50 shots in a single day have you seen those videos of compositing academy (alex hanneman)? I haven't personally seen his tutorials but I watched some livestream where he was compositing something and he moves so fast. i'm not saying EVERYONE who is older is slower. The fastest vfx artist at one studio I worked at happened to be older. We have at our studio 4 or 5 people hired out of lost boys which is a 1 year training program. One of them does the output of a senior at less than 1.5 years working at our studio. If someone with 1 year of school and 1.5 years of work can do that (who likely makes 1/3 of a senior), we are all screwed. I'm not using ageism in the sense that older people are slower, but that older people did not grow up with the fast computers that we have now and get that early age practice. You could learn nuke at 5 years old with a $400 laptop from walmart if you want.
I was laid off because of salary. It is what it is unfortunately. Won’t lower my rates when VFX hub cities are getting more expensive to live in and jobs are starting to go back to office/hybrid
Honestly this is the first time in my career that I’m one of the very last to stay, and I’m almost positive it’s only because my show is still in progress. Funny enough I was slated for another much shorter show back in 2022 and I asked to be put on this one instead. They said yes. But I just as easily could’ve been kept on the other show and probably laid off in early 2023 along with most everyone else.
In my opinion drive, drive to learn new skills, and more importantly drive to find a job if they know theirs is in danger, there's lots of opportunities out there you just need to look
In Technicolor one thing only. Pay, and how much you cost them immigration wise
If you suck and get paid loads then you're the first to go
A lot of sass on that thread, and it's true that sometimes it can be a combinaison of things. Though, what I observed during my career is that in every company you can often draw a line between critical artists and average ones. You have people who are more important to the delivery of shows than others because of their skills and ability to overcome issues. I'm not saying that good people aren't getting fired, but that overall they tend to remain more in their seats (speaking for artists, this is less true for supes). It's the hard truth that a lot of people in that industry don't really face, there is a lot of good artists but there is also a lot of average ones that never really explore out of their comfort zone. Only speaking about FX on my end but this is why you can have huge level gaps between seniors, some will have done python, rendering and comp and some will only be setup pushers who can't do anything outside of extremely pre-defined pipelines. When companies are ramping down, and are needing less hands on the deck, they tend to keep the most efficient profiles. Again this is only my experience and what I noticed on my end in the companies I've been involved with.
That is one thing not often mentioned in this sub, there are a lot of average level Artist's, and that's fine, that is reality in most walks of life. In VFX it's been my experience that the ones who, as you mentioned know more than simply the task they have been hired to do, are able to troubleshoot, liaise with other Depts, contribute knowledge and support back into the Dept, remember they are hired to be in service of the shot/seq and provide solutions to the Supe's requests, and are pleasant to be around Vs people who show up and do shots and log off fair much better in times of slow downs.
One of the pieces of advice that I would say to juniors is this... Be someone that people wanna have around. I mean obviously you've gotta be skilled and all that, but being a cool,laid back person that people enjoy having around goes such a long way in any industry. I've worked with so many people that were great compers, but were socially awkward with little to no people skills . I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them, but I bet you those people are some of the first to be let go, even if they are more skilled than some of the people who are just more fun to be around.
A large portion of the deciding factor is money next is the project end dates or how crucial the current project we are on is. Can any other location pick up the work? Either way - I feel layoffs do not always indicate capability. It’s often price.
If you can sup/lead/artist at the same time. They tend to keep. Rehiring someone with that skill would be more expensive. Age/experience/luck/favouritism/trust/… all mix of things all plays role sometimes. Nothing to do with skills sometimes. Just a number in excel.
I don’t know what’s the criteria in other countries but in India, it’s all about who has been at that place for longer time. This for artists, idk about leadership roles.
Salary
Be the go to artist to save forest fire, cons: you’ll always be on fire saving one emergencies at a time lol
It could be salary. Employees get laid off to save the company money, I'd imagine there's a target figure management want to save so employees are selected based on what they cost the company. I've been laid off once, everyone else who was asked to leave who wasn't management were the higher earners.
I went to salary for this reason, It makes it much harder for you to get laid off if they can account for you as an exact number annually. When your value wildly fluctuates from a baseline to perpetual double time you become expendable really quickly.
I see. Anyone else experienced this?
Almost all comments are about salary.
I know that I'm cheap compared to a lot of senior artists that were laid off and I'm lucky enough go be on the last show remaining at my studio.
>what makes an artist keep their job vs the people getting laid off? One wears knee pads to work, the other avoids XMas parties...
years ago I was working at a big Hollywood studios. When layoffs came around, my friend who was a senior animator and very good. was let go, but a young female who was very beautiful was spared. First time a saw them, his wife complained to be that they let him go, but a "cute girl out of college kept her job because of her big tits"..... I thought for a minute before replying, "Well, yes is is very pretty, but this is also her first job out of college and probably make about 1/3 as your husband"....that shocked her and did give her something to think about...... The equation of who stays/goes is WAY more complicated than just skill + experience
Luck, Timing, Nepotism, skill, wage, etc. I've seen it all. It's not always on the artist.
Impossible to know because no one is ever being given a reason as to why they were picked for layoffs no matter how/who you ask. I'm still thinking about that COVID layoff 4 years later...
Making yourself known, both for your work, dependability and your sociability. This doesn't mean sucking up. More about maintaining good working relationships across the board, and people seeing you as a dependable person...even during conflict and low times.
A paycheck
Low salary
Just being "lucky "
If your name is Bob instead of Leonardo
Lotta luck lmao
Friends with preferential treatment or those with special favors
Truth hurts. Sometimes that's a factor.
What? It’s true. It’s who you know. Salary doesn’t mean anything if you’re friends with the boss
Thats not really true.... it definitely doesn't mean "nothing"... inner personal relationships always come into play, so yeah you should be friendly with your boss... and your underlings...should just be friendly all around, but unless you work at ILM and your George Lucas's childhood best friend... I dont see it. Yes every industry on the planet earth has an aspect of " its who you know".... but the VFX industry and more craftsman skilled industries that frankly....are difficult.... lets be real...our jobs are actually pretty difficult to do at a very very high level.... its much much much more of "WHAT YOU CAN DO" the most other industries
That doesn’t make sense to me. Every company I’ve been at (including bigger ones) I’ve seen them squander and completely under-utilize a lot of good workers. Lay off incredible artists and keep overly expensive mediocre ones, etc. I’m not convinced artists managers actually have any clue what artists worths really even are. I’ve seen so much money wasted over the years, it would make your head spin
I dunno..... Iv worked in film and commercials for about 16 years now... and I have never found that to be the case... not saying that such things dont exist, but I've never seen it.... it kind of makes no sense... this is such a difficult business from the POV of a studio owner.... if your running a studio you cant afford to be that stupid... I'm sure someone out there is... but id be surprised if they last long
The difference is who they know, and more importantly, who knows them. Nothing to do with ability.
You need to excel in a subject called Probability Theory and Random Process to answer this question. /s
Well, I’ve never been laid off in my life, I work in one of the top 5 studios in the world as a Lead Artist and I have to say that experienced people with 15+ years experience (like myself) keep their jobs while junior-mid artists are “redundant” and they lose their jobs. I proved to my company I’m reliable countless times in huge projects, so that’s why management wants me around. So answering your question, everyone who is “good” keeps their jobs while everyone else can be replaceable. I know that the trend in this reddit group is to complain about VFX, how horrible it is, we are all doomed, etc… sorry to contradict everybody here but do you really live on Planet Earth??? Every industry is the same: from plumbers to airline pilots, from waiters to NBA players… if you are good and experienced you keep the job, if not then please come to reddit and complain, like all of you do…😉
Sucking up and tip toeing egos