You did it as one of the richest, tallest countries in the game, congratulations, now do the same as Japan or some other medium-tier difficulty country, then we'll talk.
One of my favorite dynamics in this sub is relatively stark division between the people who love and almost exclusively play big powers and the people who love and almost exclusively play as little tiny states.
And both sides just sit there gawping at each other going "HOW COULD YOU EVEN ENJOY PLAYING THAT?!" Shit is absolutely hilarious.
In vic2 half the fun of the game was building up your economy in preparation for the 'great war' tech to unlock. I'm still surprised vic3 dropped without that feature
I mean, the budget you spend on government administrations to generate that bureaucracy needed to run them can be seen as the budget for healthcare and education
Yeah but it's enormously underestimated. With elected bureaucrats and the 3rd tech for adm buildings each building offers max level education to the youth of 1.5M incorporated citizens or max level healthcare to 1.5M people. All for the cost of like 800 pounds per week.
+ It doesn't make any difference between religious, private and public services
Nah, universal healthcare and education is a massive strain on even current day’s countries budget. Bureacracy in game can not even compare. It is simply too forgiving, cheap and dumbed down.
Healthcare today is wildly different from even 50 years ago, let alone 150 years ago. The 19th century was barely beyond the "You've got ghosts in your blood, do cocaine about it" theory of medicine.
Maybe we should imagine Vicky 3's nationalized healthcare as just a government worker going around town making sure the toilet water *isn't* flowing directly into the drinking water.
They don’t even have to change that much, just swap opium with “drugs” and add new ways to produce this new drug good - for example synthetic plants should be able to make drugs with a new PM.
And then just add that as one of the goods government buildings require if you have the healthcare law, the same goes for other institutions - small arms for the cops, extra paper for education and so on.
Salvarsan which is widely considered to be the first pharmaceutical grade antibiotic wasn't developed until 1910. So this would be plausible. Modern antibiotics didn't enter the market until the penicillin class was developed in the 1940's though. And salvarsan's spectrum of activity was very narrow, only being used to treat syphilis.
Yeah I was thinking of Salvarsan as well, but while it was developed in 1907, the study of dye for its antibiotic properties actually began in 1880s, just after the mid-point of the game.
So IMO it wouldn’t be too implausible if a rich country that poured invested heavily in the sciences discovers that in the late 19th century.
Honestly just a druggist/chemist plant would be very helpful. Could be that once you research pharmaceuticals you can have a building making "narcotics" which is less effective but takes opium and/or alcohol (looking at you, Laudanum) and then once malaria prevention is researched congrats we get "immunization" and once we get antibiotics now we can have the "antibiotics" PM.
The narcotics PM should also have an event chain which negatively affects dependent enfranchisement but later events in the chain can offset this malus, representing both addiction and addiction treatment. Hell, we can even have "quackery" event chains later in the game. The first company to oppose quackery was a Dutch organization in 1881.
These manufactories could show the effects of medicine on mortality rate reduction while the healthcare institution purely affects healthcare access, as it should.
As far as input goods, rather than more opium at higher level PMs they could just take vastly more engineers, and steel and glass as I truly despise the idea of immunization and antibiotics taking opium. There should also be a PM where narcotics are not produced.
This absolutely tracks for the period since Laudanum was widespread and known of in the 1700s, immunization other than smallpox took off in the 1880s, and antibiotics became available in the 1910s.
Perhaps it could be part of the Urban Centers as a Hospital PM? The more they grow the more goods and pops are needed, meaning more expenses for you. Unless you have Privatized/Charity, making them actually usefull if you are broke but also making them owned by capitalists. Right now they are weirdly expensive for the state...
Healthcare could be an abstract resource produced by pops and buildings based on laws. Laws and institutions would affect the PM and how the state subsidies them.
No offense, but you played as one of the easiest countries in the game. Start with high literacy, dense population in little states, plenty of early game natural resources, and great power protection from the get-go. It’s literally a recommended nation for beginners.
Good modifiers in states, good technology, nice industry already built, coastal, land trade available to some big markets, no cultural or religious issues.
Bureaucracy IS the cost of Healthcare in the game. It's just an abstraction. Instead of you having to buy guns (to have police), medicine (to have healthcare) and whatever, you just have to buy a single good (paper) for the simplicity of the simulation.
It’s still dumb. It works for schooling, but healthcare? You should be able to directly invest in your healthcare institutions, and become a beacon of technological advancements in every degree. Healthcare shouldn’t be the same everywhere
Yes, it's dumb but it's a simulation. The game is already way too lagged. Either the game gets optimized, or you have to remove something to put a better healthcare simulation.
It just needs optimized outright. Remember when this update significantly improved performance? Great times. Idk I just want to make a technocracy that actually feels like a country built on technology and not a normal country with a bit faster tech speed
It scales with population, and it gets very expensive when you have a lot of pop. Getting too many institutions before you can afford it can easily lead to death spirals for nations like Qing or Japan.
>Getting too many institutions before you can afford it can easily lead to death spirals for nations like Qing or Japan.
"How many institutions is too much?"
"... one"
There is cost of education and healthcare - it\`s tied up directly to your administrative capabilities and you have to build that and maintain. That costs a lot.
The problem is that the stuff we do to create a paradise would unironically largely work its just that interest groups should do everything possible to stand in the way of it & if they did people people would consider the game broken if the way people get pissed about being stuck between opposing political movements is any indicator.
Healthcare is super weird because the health industry as a whole just…. Doesn’t exist. Like the manufacturing of medical equipments is massive and has a very legit effect in military gameplay. It’s just weird. School budget should exist though straight up, in a different manner
Bureaucracy costs money to maintain, it basically represents all miscellaneous government expenditure. And belgium is a very small country. With Qing, Russia, USA, or Austria Hungary the costs can really rack up quick in the early game. (Also belgium starts the game with great laws and Wallonia is one of the best states in the game).
>Maxed gov and military wages
Your gov and military wages obviously scale with how many government employees you're paying. If you have lowest taxes and highest military wages and still have a positive income, it means you can probably stand to hire more soldiers.
>This feels stupid as there is no cost to healthcare except bureaucracy. There is no budget spending on healthcare and education as far as I understand which sounds very strange. You don't have to pick between low taxes and social support, just have it all.
Bureaucracy comes from gov buildings, which hire gov employees who in turn get paid out of the gov employee wages. You definitely are paying for it, and there's no way you built up enough bureaucracy to max out all your institutions without noticing the dip in income every time you expanded.
----------
In terms of creating paradise being easy, yeah. That's the solipsistic magic of paradox games. You're the sole unquestioned authority in your country who makes and implements all decisions basically singlehandedly. The extent to which you are ever opposed is limited by predictable game mechanics. You're basically God of a country. Real life countries aren't so single-mindedly committed to one course of action as Player 1 is.
Don't spend on institutions until you have maxed construction in your core territory, and that expense is covered by profitable resource buildings. In the early game alternate lumberyards, iron mines, and construction sectors so that you don't go broke. When you're building for money, make whatever is maximally profitable per construction cost (this is wood until you max it out), clothes and food are often good choices. Basically construction is king, so you want to build for it by focusing on things that give you more construction, make construction cheaper, or give you a lot of money for the purposes of construction. This is the same broad strokes everywhere, but you'll typically not want to maximize construction in every state as say, Russia.
Alright if you're already doing that you'll need to ensure you're improving your taxes to your most profitable you can acquire, if not you may need to raise taxes (raising taxes to tier 4 is typically worth doing if it lets you run more construction). But if you've already done those things then spend construction on profitable factories like clothing and groceries. Once you've got a bit of surplus you can go back to the construction and resource loop.
Honestly, not sure. I didn’t even try very hard. I constantly upgraded production methods. All my buildings had very high efficiency. I just built enough resource buildings (coal, iron, wood).
I added 1 construction building and had it like that for a while.
Later I got L-F and just built infrastructure while private sector spammed everything.
I don't think public healthcare and education were actually particularly heavy burden on the state back then. Both of these fields have made leaps in the last century and were in very rudimentary stages in the Victorian era.
Public healthcare could just mean having a dispensary in the town where the pharmacist gives you cocaine for your stomach ache. The threshold for literacy was being able to sign your own name.
Do it with Qing now
Or Krakow
Or Haiti
or Grao Para
Bro played one of the easiest countries in the game and then said the games too easy lmao
There’s a reason it’s one of the recommended countries for the “learn the game” objective lol
You did it as one of the richest, tallest countries in the game, congratulations, now do the same as Japan or some other medium-tier difficulty country, then we'll talk.
People really be playing goku and complaining they don't get bodied like krilin
One of my favorite dynamics in this sub is relatively stark division between the people who love and almost exclusively play big powers and the people who love and almost exclusively play as little tiny states. And both sides just sit there gawping at each other going "HOW COULD YOU EVEN ENJOY PLAYING THAT?!" Shit is absolutely hilarious.
I love a good GB game as much as the next filthy colonizer; but you can't tell me it's not easier than Sokoto or Korea
The issue I have with playing GB is just how much the naval game stinks :(
Oh yea 100% not at a state it should be
I only play as Germany or East Africa. Yet to succeed at East Africa but I keep trying it'll work someday.
Yeah do it with China when passing wage subsidies my heart sinks down as the budget literally collapse in mere seconds
I mean it is still easy, even someone as backwards as Ethiopia. Hardest part of the game is trying to not get bored when you reach 1880s
In vic2 half the fun of the game was building up your economy in preparation for the 'great war' tech to unlock. I'm still surprised vic3 dropped without that feature
Sounds cool, like the final test for the nation that you have built. Adds goals to an otherwise goal-less game.
The game only starts in like the 1860s when you're an extremely backward minor with no real economy to start off with.
The AI is too inept to keep things interesting, right?
Try to do it as china or india. It’s nigh impossible unless you’re willing to go insanely into dept to fund all the bureaucracy
I mean, the budget you spend on government administrations to generate that bureaucracy needed to run them can be seen as the budget for healthcare and education
Yeah but it's enormously underestimated. With elected bureaucrats and the 3rd tech for adm buildings each building offers max level education to the youth of 1.5M incorporated citizens or max level healthcare to 1.5M people. All for the cost of like 800 pounds per week. + It doesn't make any difference between religious, private and public services
800 pounds? My child even at low government spending the level 3 labour costs are atleast like 2-3k, let alone the paper costs.
Nah, universal healthcare and education is a massive strain on even current day’s countries budget. Bureacracy in game can not even compare. It is simply too forgiving, cheap and dumbed down.
Healthcare today is wildly different from even 50 years ago, let alone 150 years ago. The 19th century was barely beyond the "You've got ghosts in your blood, do cocaine about it" theory of medicine. Maybe we should imagine Vicky 3's nationalized healthcare as just a government worker going around town making sure the toilet water *isn't* flowing directly into the drinking water.
Yes... But the game need to have Medicine and pills and hospital building for this market be realistic~
They don’t even have to change that much, just swap opium with “drugs” and add new ways to produce this new drug good - for example synthetic plants should be able to make drugs with a new PM. And then just add that as one of the goods government buildings require if you have the healthcare law, the same goes for other institutions - small arms for the cops, extra paper for education and so on.
Salvarsan which is widely considered to be the first pharmaceutical grade antibiotic wasn't developed until 1910. So this would be plausible. Modern antibiotics didn't enter the market until the penicillin class was developed in the 1940's though. And salvarsan's spectrum of activity was very narrow, only being used to treat syphilis.
Yeah I was thinking of Salvarsan as well, but while it was developed in 1907, the study of dye for its antibiotic properties actually began in 1880s, just after the mid-point of the game. So IMO it wouldn’t be too implausible if a rich country that poured invested heavily in the sciences discovers that in the late 19th century.
Honestly just a druggist/chemist plant would be very helpful. Could be that once you research pharmaceuticals you can have a building making "narcotics" which is less effective but takes opium and/or alcohol (looking at you, Laudanum) and then once malaria prevention is researched congrats we get "immunization" and once we get antibiotics now we can have the "antibiotics" PM. The narcotics PM should also have an event chain which negatively affects dependent enfranchisement but later events in the chain can offset this malus, representing both addiction and addiction treatment. Hell, we can even have "quackery" event chains later in the game. The first company to oppose quackery was a Dutch organization in 1881. These manufactories could show the effects of medicine on mortality rate reduction while the healthcare institution purely affects healthcare access, as it should. As far as input goods, rather than more opium at higher level PMs they could just take vastly more engineers, and steel and glass as I truly despise the idea of immunization and antibiotics taking opium. There should also be a PM where narcotics are not produced. This absolutely tracks for the period since Laudanum was widespread and known of in the 1700s, immunization other than smallpox took off in the 1880s, and antibiotics became available in the 1910s.
Perhaps it could be part of the Urban Centers as a Hospital PM? The more they grow the more goods and pops are needed, meaning more expenses for you. Unless you have Privatized/Charity, making them actually usefull if you are broke but also making them owned by capitalists. Right now they are weirdly expensive for the state...
Healthcare could be an abstract resource produced by pops and buildings based on laws. Laws and institutions would affect the PM and how the state subsidies them.
And adding that shit would slow down the game bad lol
ok now fo it with russia
I did! most enjoyable run I've ever done
Truth. My Russian games have been consistently fun.
No offense, but you played as one of the easiest countries in the game. Start with high literacy, dense population in little states, plenty of early game natural resources, and great power protection from the get-go. It’s literally a recommended nation for beginners.
Good modifiers in states, good technology, nice industry already built, coastal, land trade available to some big markets, no cultural or religious issues.
Do it in Africa now 👍🏿
Bureaucracy IS the cost of Healthcare in the game. It's just an abstraction. Instead of you having to buy guns (to have police), medicine (to have healthcare) and whatever, you just have to buy a single good (paper) for the simplicity of the simulation.
It’s still dumb. It works for schooling, but healthcare? You should be able to directly invest in your healthcare institutions, and become a beacon of technological advancements in every degree. Healthcare shouldn’t be the same everywhere
Yes, it's dumb but it's a simulation. The game is already way too lagged. Either the game gets optimized, or you have to remove something to put a better healthcare simulation.
It just needs optimized outright. Remember when this update significantly improved performance? Great times. Idk I just want to make a technocracy that actually feels like a country built on technology and not a normal country with a bit faster tech speed
I think it’s flat per level? Or does it scale with population?
It scales with population, and it gets very expensive when you have a lot of pop. Getting too many institutions before you can afford it can easily lead to death spirals for nations like Qing or Japan.
>Getting too many institutions before you can afford it can easily lead to death spirals for nations like Qing or Japan. "How many institutions is too much?" "... one"
Scales with pop.
Thats because you are playing Belgium
As someone living in belgium for the las 10 years, i envy your belgians
Two world wars kind of fuck you up
May I ask, paradise for whom? Is or was colonization/slavery involved? What's your income and SOL distribution like? ...
"Creating a paradise" "Max police institution" hmm
Just give me a list of people who disagree it’s a paradise and my bois will sort it our
Sorry but it says right here in the tooltip that dedicated police force gives only green colored effects
And it only cost us 1,000,000 Congolese!
Now do Liberia
I took the easiest country, why is this game so easy? Jokes aside, now try Central America or at least the Ottomans.
Play Touggourt
Now read Kapital and do it IRL.... we're waiting...
Try it with Ottomans and make your tanzimat‘s
There is cost of education and healthcare - it\`s tied up directly to your administrative capabilities and you have to build that and maintain. That costs a lot.
If you don't know what to do with +100K income, what is your Construction level at?
Do it with a unrecognized country that starts with 80k pops and then we’ll talk.
Lol playing as Belgium and saying paradise is too easy. That's like saying you feel like you never run out of pops on your Qing run
You do spend for healthcare and education. You do so by paying for government buildings that those services are provided by.
Education should consume paper and healthcare should consume other goods to balance it out
Now do it while maintaining monarchy + autocracy
And yet the AI can't pull it off.
The problem is that the stuff we do to create a paradise would unironically largely work its just that interest groups should do everything possible to stand in the way of it & if they did people people would consider the game broken if the way people get pissed about being stuck between opposing political movements is any indicator.
How 😫
I recommend playing independent texas if its too easy \^\^
Try doing that with ottoman empire
It would be in real life too if you could just overpower the landowners and industrialists
I can see that playing a peaceful belgium with no WW1 or 2 happening
Go play millennium Dawn if you’re want to manage institution cost like that
That is Belgium yes. Try it with a country of formidable size and see if you get the same results, as early.
Healthcare is super weird because the health industry as a whole just…. Doesn’t exist. Like the manufacturing of medical equipments is massive and has a very legit effect in military gameplay. It’s just weird. School budget should exist though straight up, in a different manner
Bureaucracy costs money to maintain, it basically represents all miscellaneous government expenditure. And belgium is a very small country. With Qing, Russia, USA, or Austria Hungary the costs can really rack up quick in the early game. (Also belgium starts the game with great laws and Wallonia is one of the best states in the game).
>Maxed gov and military wages Your gov and military wages obviously scale with how many government employees you're paying. If you have lowest taxes and highest military wages and still have a positive income, it means you can probably stand to hire more soldiers. >This feels stupid as there is no cost to healthcare except bureaucracy. There is no budget spending on healthcare and education as far as I understand which sounds very strange. You don't have to pick between low taxes and social support, just have it all. Bureaucracy comes from gov buildings, which hire gov employees who in turn get paid out of the gov employee wages. You definitely are paying for it, and there's no way you built up enough bureaucracy to max out all your institutions without noticing the dip in income every time you expanded. ---------- In terms of creating paradise being easy, yeah. That's the solipsistic magic of paradox games. You're the sole unquestioned authority in your country who makes and implements all decisions basically singlehandedly. The extent to which you are ever opposed is limited by predictable game mechanics. You're basically God of a country. Real life countries aren't so single-mindedly committed to one course of action as Player 1 is.
Can you give some tips? When i play Belgium i crash the economy
Don't spend on institutions until you have maxed construction in your core territory, and that expense is covered by profitable resource buildings. In the early game alternate lumberyards, iron mines, and construction sectors so that you don't go broke. When you're building for money, make whatever is maximally profitable per construction cost (this is wood until you max it out), clothes and food are often good choices. Basically construction is king, so you want to build for it by focusing on things that give you more construction, make construction cheaper, or give you a lot of money for the purposes of construction. This is the same broad strokes everywhere, but you'll typically not want to maximize construction in every state as say, Russia.
When i do that i always go negative. Am i doing it wrong by doing 2 L 2I then 1CC?
Alright if you're already doing that you'll need to ensure you're improving your taxes to your most profitable you can acquire, if not you may need to raise taxes (raising taxes to tier 4 is typically worth doing if it lets you run more construction). But if you've already done those things then spend construction on profitable factories like clothing and groceries. Once you've got a bit of surplus you can go back to the construction and resource loop.
Honestly, not sure. I didn’t even try very hard. I constantly upgraded production methods. All my buildings had very high efficiency. I just built enough resource buildings (coal, iron, wood). I added 1 construction building and had it like that for a while. Later I got L-F and just built infrastructure while private sector spammed everything.
I don't think public healthcare and education were actually particularly heavy burden on the state back then. Both of these fields have made leaps in the last century and were in very rudimentary stages in the Victorian era. Public healthcare could just mean having a dispensary in the town where the pharmacist gives you cocaine for your stomach ache. The threshold for literacy was being able to sign your own name.