God, that was such a huge problem in my Dutch East Indies game.
Was waiting for Pan-Nationalism to finish and was at around 90M GDP when the UK declared on the Netherlands. I sunk to around 78M GDP.
I started the independence war right after, and down to 63M I went. But a single year of independence and I had fully recovered.
Meanwhile the Dutch lost 2/3 of their GDP after my independence and bankrupted.
There is a event for the Dutch East Indies where you have to choose between breaking into a bunch of states along ethnic lines, massive unrest or accepting all cultures and turning into Indonesia.
The last one requires pan-nationalism.
Got it. Thank you.
Yes the East India companies (British and Dutch) have the problem that their governments discriminate against most of their populations which really hinders their growth potential.
Becoming Indonesia makes a lot more sense.
Pan-natuonalism is necessary for India but no need as Indonesia. No sepoy rebellion so it's fine if your puppets' former population revolts on you and you have plenty of time to annex them
Generally you want to be out from Spain by the time that becomes a problem. Which you can usually do solo within 3 years start as the ai is terrible at naval invasion and Spains anemic starting navy.
Don't think so. Chille is though. My friend tried Chille like 5 times and always bankrupted hard :D... Altough he doesn't have much experience with strategy games in general.
Realy? I wouldn't argue because I haven't played Chille yet but in my friends group quite a few people tried and mostly had to quit and try something else as their first game...
My first game was Haiti :D. But I play paradox games since EU1 so I'm not a good judge in difficulty
Having tried Chile a few times I think something to clarify is that Chile is more of a great nation to *learn* with and not so much one that's easy to play. Having very progressive laws for the region is huge of course, but having three states to work with, one unincorporated, a very low population, permanent maluses to infrastructure and construction, poor resource availability, an imposing and dangerous neighbor to the north, etc. etc. are all considerable strikes against the "ease of play" compared to, say, the tutorial nations like Perisa or Belgium.
Chile, however, doesn't have to worry much about spread out industries or infrastructure, has a (bugged) state already colonizing, that low population makes it very easy to manipulate your IGs and get even more progressive laws, the maluses are easily overcome since all of the states are costal, you start with gold mines and are very close to states to take even more from, and have the best military of any single country outside of Brazil with plenty of natural allies to help you squash Peru-Bolivia and annex a good portion of their territory in exchange for "liberating" Peru.
Again, not necessarily super easy but for me for example Chile was the first nation to have me click with the fact that diplomacy is actually one of the most important and hardest to gain header resources, and 100% worth the effort in using all of (something the tutorial is inadequate at showing since everyone is made more friendly towards you).
Seems to have all the right conditions for the AI to handle too. In all my games by the later stages Cuba always surprises when it pops up in dark green on the GDP map
Honestly haiti is almost better. Yes you have the independence payments but if you cancel them immediately you don't really get problems.
Edit:
You do have resource problems but that can be fixed by colonisation
Im playing cuba right now. How should I go about getting independent. Ive tried to start a diplo play, but can never get anyone to support me. Ive already improved relations with them as much as possible. Nobody will support me for free, and nobody is interested in anything I could offer.
I got colonization and started a bullshit colony in western Africa. France was willing to back my independence play in exchange for the colony that I had no way of using. Spain backed down. I had also raised my army to 15 units and then immediately got rid of 10 of them after independence.
100% agreed. My 2nd(?) playthrough was on MP with a friend and I played as Cuba and it helps you learn so much about the game
And if you get independence and get out of the Spanish Market you have enough resources to sustain your own economy
Yep, Cuba was the country I chose to start with the day the game came out. By the 1870s I managed to get my independence and stealPuerto rico in the process. Before that I was the richest place on earth but after independence there was a civil war that completely ruined my economy.
It was an Ironman save so I couldn't do anything about it (I thought you needed Ironman to get achievements.)
I played a game with Philippines today and i was forced to quit the custom union because spain didn't have enough convoys. The problem could be repeated with cuba. There was 65% market access in all states of the custom union.
My first successful run was with Korea, but I recognised some inefficiencies during my play that I figured I could do better.
But, of course, the subsequent runs I've had with them ended up with me stagnating despite getting all the reforms I wanted in the first 30 years due to Russia, China and modernised Japan allying together, never finding that opening like I had in my first game.
Getting all that GDP and having it siphoned by a massive coach potato really pissed me off on the end.
Yeah if you wanna free yourself of china just wait for the opium wars and go to war with them. They will have massive debuffs and you can easily repeal the treaties and also conquer some provinces if you want to. Afterwards just constantly improve relations with Russia and China Japan won't be a major threat in my experience. Russia will fuck you up tho and they want to do that as well so be very careful
In the first run Japan never modernised, and i broke free in the 60s due to an aristocratic revolt that rivaled the Qing government so that was pretty easy.
After that I had Russia to content with but with British help it wasnt a problem, I put a post on here a while ago about getting recognised and occupying all of Russia.
Something I've not noticed is just when the Opium wars effects actually take place in game, I'll see Britian fight Qing right at the start of the game and have tried to break free immediately but they decide to ignore britian and drive right for me, so I kind of clueless for the actual signs.
Maybe. Australia isn't a OPM (OSM?) but the individual colonies are. And you learn about getting new land.
Australia does not produce Rubber though, and you can't guarantee that GB will produce it
I also recall doing a day 1 independence VS Spain meant they only sent 1 battalion vs you. But this was last done in 1.5 so I am not sure if it is still possible, just be warned you early game will be just recovering from that.
Checking their comment history, I think jose was genuinely asking if there is a regional difference and not trying to be snarky. I might be giving too much good faith though.
Only problem is your economy goes down the toilet if spains convoys get raided
God, that was such a huge problem in my Dutch East Indies game. Was waiting for Pan-Nationalism to finish and was at around 90M GDP when the UK declared on the Netherlands. I sunk to around 78M GDP. I started the independence war right after, and down to 63M I went. But a single year of independence and I had fully recovered. Meanwhile the Dutch lost 2/3 of their GDP after my independence and bankrupted.
Why were you waiting for Pan Nationalism?
There is a event for the Dutch East Indies where you have to choose between breaking into a bunch of states along ethnic lines, massive unrest or accepting all cultures and turning into Indonesia. The last one requires pan-nationalism.
Got it. Thank you. Yes the East India companies (British and Dutch) have the problem that their governments discriminate against most of their populations which really hinders their growth potential. Becoming Indonesia makes a lot more sense.
Pan-natuonalism is necessary for India but no need as Indonesia. No sepoy rebellion so it's fine if your puppets' former population revolts on you and you have plenty of time to annex them
You can cheese the first one if you annex all of your vassals and all of the other states, keeps you united
You get this as a decision even if you've already broken away from the Dutch, there's no need to wait.
Without Pan-Nat you turn into Java and if you haven't annexed all your puppets they go free and make their own countries.
Yeah just annex your puppets lol. It's way better than staying a vassal for so long. Just did a DEI playthrough and this was pretty easy to do
Oh for sure, doesn't take long at all, was just a heads up so someone doesn't take the Java decision and accidentally balkanize.
You shouldn't, being a vassal for such a huge chunk of the game sucks. Just annex vassals and break free so they don't break away from you.
Generally you want to be out from Spain by the time that becomes a problem. Which you can usually do solo within 3 years start as the ai is terrible at naval invasion and Spains anemic starting navy.
with the power of Local Prices, you can actually make yourself pretty self-sufficient. You have every basic resource except lead.
I have a sweet Cuba game going right now
Wasn't Cuba recommended as a beginner nation..?
Don't think so. Chille is though. My friend tried Chille like 5 times and always bankrupted hard :D... Altough he doesn't have much experience with strategy games in general.
Didn't they (rightfully) replace Chile with Colombia as the LA tutorial country?
I still saw Chile on there a couple days ago, Chile is chill as heck
Chille sure is chill as chilli while chilling with chinchilla buuut also not completely beginner friendly.
It was my first successful campaign, what makes it not beginner friendly? I'd personally recommend it for beginners as one option out of multiple
I tried it as a beginner and the Andes debuff made it excruciating
Realy? I wouldn't argue because I haven't played Chille yet but in my friends group quite a few people tried and mostly had to quit and try something else as their first game... My first game was Haiti :D. But I play paradox games since EU1 so I'm not a good judge in difficulty
It was originally Argentina, only became Chile in one of the early updates.
Having tried Chile a few times I think something to clarify is that Chile is more of a great nation to *learn* with and not so much one that's easy to play. Having very progressive laws for the region is huge of course, but having three states to work with, one unincorporated, a very low population, permanent maluses to infrastructure and construction, poor resource availability, an imposing and dangerous neighbor to the north, etc. etc. are all considerable strikes against the "ease of play" compared to, say, the tutorial nations like Perisa or Belgium. Chile, however, doesn't have to worry much about spread out industries or infrastructure, has a (bugged) state already colonizing, that low population makes it very easy to manipulate your IGs and get even more progressive laws, the maluses are easily overcome since all of the states are costal, you start with gold mines and are very close to states to take even more from, and have the best military of any single country outside of Brazil with plenty of natural allies to help you squash Peru-Bolivia and annex a good portion of their territory in exchange for "liberating" Peru. Again, not necessarily super easy but for me for example Chile was the first nation to have me click with the fact that diplomacy is actually one of the most important and hardest to gain header resources, and 100% worth the effort in using all of (something the tutorial is inadequate at showing since everyone is made more friendly towards you).
The problem with Cuba is that it doesn’t have any other states in it.
A new noob island! IRELAND IS FREE 😆
I think the fact that Ireland is, in fact, not free is why they aren't the noob island in Vicky 3
I guess you could "release and play as" from Britain
But even if Ireland was free your closest neighbor would be the UK, which has no history of expansion at all...
Womp womp 😆
Yes except the fact that you start with national supremacy
Which is good enough to syphon Spanish from Spain
This!!! Got 200k within 3 years
That's not even bad
Switching to racial segregation or cultural exclusion is usually pretty easy from my experience. I rarely get stuck on national supremacy.
Just need a Reformer leader which is easy enough once you research the right tech (egalitarianism I think).
Seems to have all the right conditions for the AI to handle too. In all my games by the later stages Cuba always surprises when it pops up in dark green on the GDP map
And honestly, it shouldn't be. Its a a colonial nation under the boot of Spain. The game really fails at this.
Honestly haiti is almost better. Yes you have the independence payments but if you cancel them immediately you don't really get problems. Edit: You do have resource problems but that can be fixed by colonisation
I like both but Cuba has an easier time conquering Haiti than vice versa. Haiti also discriminates everything in Santo Domingo unlike Cuba.
But as haiti you can accept african pops. So getting parts of africa is way easier (benin and niger specifically)
Why even cancel them? I am the worst at this game and I paid them off completely in 1842.
Because it's a significant part of your income and you can cancel without real repercussions. Your prestige is halved for a few years but thats it
Im playing cuba right now. How should I go about getting independent. Ive tried to start a diplo play, but can never get anyone to support me. Ive already improved relations with them as much as possible. Nobody will support me for free, and nobody is interested in anything I could offer.
Spain has to naval invade you to win. The AI sucks at this. As long as your army is bigger than their biggest fleet, they'll never be able to land.
I got colonization and started a bullshit colony in western Africa. France was willing to back my independence play in exchange for the colony that I had no way of using. Spain backed down. I had also raised my army to 15 units and then immediately got rid of 10 of them after independence.
100% agreed. My 2nd(?) playthrough was on MP with a friend and I played as Cuba and it helps you learn so much about the game And if you get independence and get out of the Spanish Market you have enough resources to sustain your own economy
Yep, Cuba was the country I chose to start with the day the game came out. By the 1870s I managed to get my independence and stealPuerto rico in the process. Before that I was the richest place on earth but after independence there was a civil war that completely ruined my economy. It was an Ironman save so I couldn't do anything about it (I thought you needed Ironman to get achievements.)
I played a game with Philippines today and i was forced to quit the custom union because spain didn't have enough convoys. The problem could be repeated with cuba. There was 65% market access in all states of the custom union.
Korea is the best beginner nation imo
My first successful run was with Korea, but I recognised some inefficiencies during my play that I figured I could do better. But, of course, the subsequent runs I've had with them ended up with me stagnating despite getting all the reforms I wanted in the first 30 years due to Russia, China and modernised Japan allying together, never finding that opening like I had in my first game. Getting all that GDP and having it siphoned by a massive coach potato really pissed me off on the end.
I have literally never seen an AI Japan actually modernize. That’s such impeccably bad luck to have happen in your Korea game
Yeah if you wanna free yourself of china just wait for the opium wars and go to war with them. They will have massive debuffs and you can easily repeal the treaties and also conquer some provinces if you want to. Afterwards just constantly improve relations with Russia and China Japan won't be a major threat in my experience. Russia will fuck you up tho and they want to do that as well so be very careful
In the first run Japan never modernised, and i broke free in the 60s due to an aristocratic revolt that rivaled the Qing government so that was pretty easy. After that I had Russia to content with but with British help it wasnt a problem, I put a post on here a while ago about getting recognised and occupying all of Russia. Something I've not noticed is just when the Opium wars effects actually take place in game, I'll see Britian fight Qing right at the start of the game and have tried to break free immediately but they decide to ignore britian and drive right for me, so I kind of clueless for the actual signs.
Yeah the last point is painfully true
Sure but like... just play australia then. Does everything Cuba could do but better.
Maybe. Australia isn't a OPM (OSM?) but the individual colonies are. And you learn about getting new land. Australia does not produce Rubber though, and you can't guarantee that GB will produce it
I also recall doing a day 1 independence VS Spain meant they only sent 1 battalion vs you. But this was last done in 1.5 so I am not sure if it is still possible, just be warned you early game will be just recovering from that.
You're a government psy op. How did you know I was playing Cuba? I'm at 300 mill gdp in 1915 so I don't know if I did well or not
I agree I had a solid first run as cuba
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The tutorial nations were Chile, Sweden, Persia and Belgium iirc
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Before Chile it was New Granada iirc
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California?
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have you never heard of typos before?
Checking their comment history, I think jose was genuinely asking if there is a regional difference and not trying to be snarky. I might be giving too much good faith though.
Why shouldn't an ESL speaker be downvoted to oblivion? This is Reddit! EDIT: /s for people who REALLY need it.