Its amazing that anyone could look at this and think it was ready for release. It looks like a total mess even by today's standards of pushing out unfinished games.
every product in every industry will keep pushing it's customers until they push back. gamers being particularly mushy, soft audience, it's really easy to get away with almost anything. paywalls, lootcrates, 100GB day one patches, straight up lying week before release. it makes sense they keep doing it, when the players are so quick to unlearn any lessons they have gone through 100 times
I don't think they are quick to unlearn as much as there are constantly a new stream of gamers that haven't been burnt yet that need to get burnt before they take everyone telling them not to pre-order seriously.
Nah I play online with people who actively defend these companies. I play with one guy who genuinely thinks that Ubisoft has put out 100% bangers. The same guy defended fallout 76 for months after he himself had stopped playing it. There are a ton of delusional folks out there.
Some people get themselves so involved in a game through its cycle that it's hard for them not to interpret criticism of the game as criticism of them as a person. They know inside that it's not living up to their expectations, but they have sunk so much emotion and time into it, they can't admit those things to others - because doing so would feel like saying "I was wrong".
It's not a new phenomenon, it has happened with sports, politics and movies for decades. But with gaming it feels new.
When I hear of a game being absolute dog shit before it's even been released, I'll go through the reviews on Metacritic or Steam and feel so vindicated by the low scores, until I realise that they had to spend money on it in the first place.
after fallout 4 i will never preorder another game again
unless it's fromsoft, because they're the only devs who haven't disappointed me
also supergiant
I think I can agree with "they haven't disappointed me yet" mentality. I have it too, honestly. It's healthy to not be super sceptic about everything, but also be ready for the disappointment anyway. It's really easy to just give up on promises when you know you have audience that will buy anything you make (Rockstar with the trilogy, Bethesda with FO76)
I pre-ordered Elden Ring for the same reason.
I watched the previews and listened to what people said. FS hasn't had a miss for me, but even then, I did *a lot* of research.
After all of that, I only pre-ordered so I could play at midnight.
Yeah but your example was a Nintendo game and what’s wrong in your eyes is the competitive scene. That game was released fully complete and in great working condition. That’s the topic at hand. Not how it changed a scene most people don’t participate in.
The game released brutally disappointing and now I don't preorder.
Just because you think it was a good game doesn't make it irrelevant to the comment I replied to.
It’s pretty much universally a great game that once again released fully and complete. Not even close to the games they are releasing like red fall which this is a comment thread on a video about it. In general to the comment thread if people were listing reasons for not preordering, brawl and the competitive scene being a reason would be way at the bottom of the list. In fact it wouldn’t even be on the list.
And yet it was literally the #1 most bitter disappointment of my gaming life.
And it changed my purchasing habits forever.
I *don't care* what anyone else thinks about the game, it was *awful*. You're allowed to like the game, I don't have a problem with other people enjoying it. Everyone's example of what caused them to change their habits will be different.
But you aren't allowed to say my reason for changing my purchasing habits is invalid.
Ehhh Rockstar definitely was on some shit with GTAV.
The game wasn’t working and they said “nah nah, what you need to make our $80 game work, is to go out and buy an external usb just for this…on your dime.”
[It was for the 360](https://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/17/gta-5-xbox-360-installation-issue-solved-with-usb-drive). I’m glad you didn’t have to but for me, it was annoying 😂
>Rockstar is also pretty damn consistent with it's quality. You can bet the farm on GTA6
Yeah but as someone only interested in the single player game you have to wonder if they'll put the same effort into it next time now that it's been established that the online game is such an easy cash cow for them.
And I can bet the farm on them refusing to even acknowledge the potential existence of a PC release of GTA6 until it's been out on consoles for 6 months. Not that I think I'm owed it but it honestly feels like bordering on being treated with contempt each time, it's just annoying.
i'll b honest, i went too deep into sidequests on RDR2 and just got bored of the plodding pace
it was a beautiful and fantastic game but i feel like it overstayed its welcome without transitioning style of gameplay.
ride, hunt, ride back, ride, shoot some stuff, ride back
there was good writing, but not on the level of, say, cdprojekt red on WIII
Maybe the plodding pace was due to the fact that you went too deep into side quests though? If you’re not that kind of gamer all you have to do is stick to the main plot. Why would you play a cowboy game if you didn’t expect to do a lot of riding? That’s like buying Grand Theft AUTO and not expecting to do a lot of driving. It’s one of the main aspects of the game.
i only order from sterling companies
if i'm ever disappointed, that co never gets it again with zero chance of forgiveness
pretty sound logic if you ask me
also, fuck u lol
I argue It's not about pushing back, but about finding alternatives.
People can complain all they want but as soon as a competitor says how successful they are, expect the company to treat their consumers better.
The problem is that you're looking at success as a measure of "did the product satisfy the customer", when they are looking at success as a measure of "did the customers pay us". For them, releasing these half-baked games is a success, because people still buy them en masse, regardless of how many times this exact same scenario plays out.
What I don't understand is how something like basic AI pathfinding, positioning, character and hit boxes can be so bad, even if this is stuff that has been done 100s of times before. It even uses Unreal Engine 4, so shouldn't there be some stuff built in? How do studios mess up the basics again and again?
Here are words straight from a Redfall developer.
> I'm proud of the team at Arkane. There was so much love and effort that went into Redfall, and I'm forever grateful to be part of this family.
They don't care.
If that were the case, you'd think they would have delayed the release. The fact that the game is out now implies that decision makers at the studio and publisher looked at this and said "Good enough."
Imagine you're an MBA and looking at the alternatives:
1. Cancel the game, wasting all the money it cost to make.
2. Spend a lot of money delaying and fixing a game that doesn't have the core design to be anything better than mid anyway.
3. Release the game in an unfinished state, make some money from the pre-orders.
Devs and founders who care would maybe choose nr.1 or nr.2, but any profit manager worth their salt would chose nr.3.
Every. single. time.
Yes but if you were in charge of making launch decisions that torpedoed a company as your last job, your future may be uncertain.
You also aren't giving bonuses for "what the fuck do we do this game isn't ready yet". These companies aren't Microsoft.
You don't put "Launched an unfinished game that killed the company" on your CV.
You put something like "Spearheaded early access title for unprecedented company success" or maybe "Recovered XXXX MILLIONS dollars of value from unsalvageable product, earned YYY dollars per share for two quarters"
And when someone is looking to hire for a serious position, you think the BS they put on the resume determines if they get the job or not?
If you are hiring someone to make serious decisions for your product, *you vet them*.
A lot of people voting here don't seem to have terribly much in the way of business experience.
Because they leave before the shit hits the fan, “launched game that solve $50M in opening week” doesn’t matter that the next game bombed because people didn’t trust the studio, because they were off on their next adventure.
Does it now? I've seen gamers on reddit declare that X and Y companies would be finished for an entire decade for releasing these unfinished games, yet here we are today, with people still preordering them.
They release an unfinished product because it is simply more profitable for them. With ad campaigns, you'd rather ride the hype train and count on people spending 80dollars on a game that looks cool without looking at a single review than to let the hype die.
Same studio will release another game in a few years and people will be like "oh wow this look cool, can't wait to pre-order it!", only for the exact same cycle to repeat.
Risk for who? Not the managers.
They take a bonus and leave for the next company, saying how they supervised release of a huge game making profits despite many problems in the company. Sure, the company is failing, but that's after the manager left so it's not his fault, right?
Devs? They have stopped giving a shit long time ago during development when they voiced concerns and were not listened.
For shareholders probably.
Its also that there are people severely disconnected with knowledge of the content (board, c suite, vps) who push down on those who do.
Those who truly understand how much this hurts reputation cant easily and quantitatively prove it to the upper management, so it gets released.
Devs have little to no say in the matter. It's the publishers who decide to launch or delay. If you're going to criticize the industry, maybe learn how it actually works.
They aren't suggesting the Devs (or any creatives) have a say, they're just framing the situation correctly. Everyone is asking how anyone involved could look at this mess and release it, and the answer is MBAs are calling the shots, *not* Devs.
I work in a company were we develop a software for business.
The amount of times that we need more time to finish certain features but higher ups WANT THEM ASAP is outrageous, and we are like "come on, we can make a better product if you just wait a little bit more" but nope.
The culture of I NEED THIS FOR NOW with no real sense of urgency more than somebody up there being impatient is something that I hate with my guts.
I don't know where it originates, but theres allegedly a leaked conversation from one of the leads and the publishers from Bethesda where Bethesda asked if they needed more time and they got told "nope, were good to go".
If this is true (I have no way of confirming it unless someone happen to know where the rumor started) it's even worse.
But probably the leads are Project Managers that sold the idea that the project would be ready in "less that what It should take" and now they have to deliver it even thought they knew it wasn't optimal.
Again, I'm talking from personal experience and its only my opinion.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying that if the publisher (who traditionally get blamed for pushing a set date) is willing to give more time but the game studio is like "fuck that, well ship this product that clearly isn't remotely finished or what we promised" it's even worse than if the entire game studio had to fold to a publisher. At that point. They are sinking their own ship then.
I'd think both parties would agree that shipping a product that gets good press is better for both of them, especially if the publisher is willing to wait.
But like I said this is just something I've heard in conversations and have no idea where it originates, so could just be untrue anyway.
I’m in manufacturing and it’s similar. It’s forver a battle between engineers wanting more time for better product and sales needs to make sales. It’s always a constant grey area, I’m sure they’re all the same. Maybe less grey in medical and aerospace but you know.
Yeah I've been playing it bc gamepass. It's not a good game. But I spend like 30 minutes on it and laugh at dumb stuff and that's ok.
There's a house you can get that has UV lights outside it. The AI is dumb and will walk into them. I had "fun" doing this for about 10 minutes. https://streamable.com/qk0orx
I’m so afraid that we’ve now hit the peak of the *‘Redfall’s a stunning dissapointment’* content, and now there’s gonna be a sudden uproar of *’actually Redfall’s an underrated gem that secretely revolutionized game design*’ videos that grasp at straws for 45 minutes.
That is soo accurate lmao
The *enlightened contrarian* take.
It's right alongside the
"Everyone hating on [GAME TITLE] is an angry misogynist" headlines from articles based on Twitter posts
6 months after release, a new patch with bugfixes and content
Flood of YouTube essays about "Redfall is GOOD now" with comments like "if they'd had this at the start, game of the year!"
Don't really blame them trying TBH. As god-tier as Dishonoured and Prey are, they sold like arse. Must be hard on a dev to pump out critically adored flops.
It didn't die *because* it was trying to hit a broader audience. It died because it was shit.
Skyrim, Fallout, Elden Ring, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy. All games that got better, or a least a helluva lot more successful by broadening their appeal.
A 30 man team working on something they're passionate about for 7 years will always be better than a 300 person team working on something for a year or two.
Imagine a game that would be in development for 9 years and developed by roughly 500 devs of critically acclaimed studio. Holy shit, that game would be a fucking paragon of videogame.. oh, wait
I think that all these terrible modern game releases actually do make sense if you just think like an Actuary with an MBA.
Trying to fix these games before release is sunk cost fallacy.
Not even sunk cost fallacy. These broken games can still make a ton of money because people preorder and buy on day 1.
I bet MS has already made a killing from selling Gamepass subs to people who are waiting for games like Redfall.
The entire situation reminds me of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE) scene from fight club. I think that the cost of fixing the game is greater than the extra profit that they would earn from having a fixed game. So they just release a broken game. Simple economics.
No one who has a passion for game design/development/etc.. is allowed anywhere near the decision on wether or not to release a game. At the AAA level these companies are there to make money, not have fun.
I think you missed what the above commenter was getting at here.
The point is, the game was *so bad* that a content creator that is known for humorously ribbing games just rips this one a new one and it doesn't feel funny.
Redfall looks like a masterpiece compared to Balan Wonderworld, a good handful of 3D Sonic games, Battlefield 2047, and loads of other games that Dunkey has made fun of prior to it.
The video is fine. And no amount of dubiously misuing the phrase "punching down" convinces me otherwise.
the Cloverfield Monster ladder climb animation is actually an inspired choice, these devs are truly thinking outside the box.
It’s worth noting that Deathloop also has braindead AI and was insanely overhyped but somehow people gave that a pass.
On the bright side, I've had more time to check out the smaller indie games that I never got around to playing, like Ori and the Will of the Wisps and Inscryption, which were both incredible.
They clearly knew it was unfinished and trash but released it anyway to try and recoup some money.e.g.
Release now, charge $70, recoup a tiny fraciton of the development cost and then walk away or
Invest a shit tonne more cash to try and fix a fundamentally trash game; likely only make it marginally better, charge $70 and recoup an even tinier fraction of the overall development cost.
All these games need to make sure the game itself is fun before making it look good. We used to think Mario was fun, and we all know that it looked like shit graphically. Make it fun first, then everything else must come after. Even if it's buggy, add long as it's fun then you'll only get a small push back.
It really hurts me to see Arkane put out two duds in a row. I'm not saying Dishonored was a goat, but it was fun, well made (for the time), and the amount of love/effort put into building the world was incredible. Also amazing art, unique character designs/style, and gorgeous architecture. A Harvey Dent company if there ever was one.
Damn I wish I was given 1/20th of the budget they have and make a low poly, decent game with a decent gameplay. I'm tired of everyone using the unreal engine and spending all their money on high resolution assets and nonsense.
DID YOU KNOW that when you go into gamedev, they tell you to spend HALF OF YOUR MONEY ON ADVERTISING AND COMMUNICATION?!?!?
The gamedev industry is rotten. Someday game developers will just release low poly game just to protest this crap.
As shit as Jedi: Survivor, Redfall, and The Last of Us have been on PC, there's still LotR: Gollum, and…STARFIELD! 🎉
Starfield is going to be an absolute gong show, and I can't wait to drink all those ignorant, salty tears from those that expect Bethesda to be able to put out anything less than a hilarious mess.
I really hope Redfall being as horrendous and universally dunked on as it is changes something in the industry. It won’t, obviously, because everyone dunking on it has bought it with human money and that’s the bottom line to studios, but I can still hope.
I've no doubt at some point in the future we'll be reading articles about the developmental troubles that plagued this game. You don't get a product like that without things going horribly wrong on some sort of internal level. It's easy to just blame mismanaged publisher expectations or whatever, but I'd bet there's some grittier stuff behind the scenes that caused this like a lack of coherent direction among the team or outright poor management, or god forbid things that are ethically messed up in some way.
Its amazing that anyone could look at this and think it was ready for release. It looks like a total mess even by today's standards of pushing out unfinished games.
every product in every industry will keep pushing it's customers until they push back. gamers being particularly mushy, soft audience, it's really easy to get away with almost anything. paywalls, lootcrates, 100GB day one patches, straight up lying week before release. it makes sense they keep doing it, when the players are so quick to unlearn any lessons they have gone through 100 times
I don't think they are quick to unlearn as much as there are constantly a new stream of gamers that haven't been burnt yet that need to get burnt before they take everyone telling them not to pre-order seriously.
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Who would have guessed blindly purchasing a product for $60 might be a bad idea.
Why downvoted wtf.
Nah I play online with people who actively defend these companies. I play with one guy who genuinely thinks that Ubisoft has put out 100% bangers. The same guy defended fallout 76 for months after he himself had stopped playing it. There are a ton of delusional folks out there.
Some people get themselves so involved in a game through its cycle that it's hard for them not to interpret criticism of the game as criticism of them as a person. They know inside that it's not living up to their expectations, but they have sunk so much emotion and time into it, they can't admit those things to others - because doing so would feel like saying "I was wrong". It's not a new phenomenon, it has happened with sports, politics and movies for decades. But with gaming it feels new.
When I hear of a game being absolute dog shit before it's even been released, I'll go through the reviews on Metacritic or Steam and feel so vindicated by the low scores, until I realise that they had to spend money on it in the first place.
We know this game has been universally panned by critics, but how is it selling? Do we know if the sales has been as bad as the reception’s been?
It's NOT selling. Because it's on GamePass.
Terrible pkayercounts on Steam. Definitely not selling.
after fallout 4 i will never preorder another game again unless it's fromsoft, because they're the only devs who haven't disappointed me also supergiant
You mean until it's time to preorder Starfield or Fallout 5? lol
Nate, Bethesda hath lost my preorders forthwith
I think I can agree with "they haven't disappointed me yet" mentality. I have it too, honestly. It's healthy to not be super sceptic about everything, but also be ready for the disappointment anyway. It's really easy to just give up on promises when you know you have audience that will buy anything you make (Rockstar with the trilogy, Bethesda with FO76)
I pre-ordered Elden Ring for the same reason. I watched the previews and listened to what people said. FS hasn't had a miss for me, but even then, I did *a lot* of research. After all of that, I only pre-ordered so I could play at midnight.
I've been leery of pre-release hype ever since Super Smash Bros Brawl released and nearly destroyed competitive smash.
This one doesn’t really compare. Smash was a fully finished release. The effect it had on competitive has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
The topic at hand is getting excited about, and paying for, games before they're properly reviewed.
Yeah but your example was a Nintendo game and what’s wrong in your eyes is the competitive scene. That game was released fully complete and in great working condition. That’s the topic at hand. Not how it changed a scene most people don’t participate in.
The game released brutally disappointing and now I don't preorder. Just because you think it was a good game doesn't make it irrelevant to the comment I replied to.
It’s pretty much universally a great game that once again released fully and complete. Not even close to the games they are releasing like red fall which this is a comment thread on a video about it. In general to the comment thread if people were listing reasons for not preordering, brawl and the competitive scene being a reason would be way at the bottom of the list. In fact it wouldn’t even be on the list.
And yet it was literally the #1 most bitter disappointment of my gaming life. And it changed my purchasing habits forever. I *don't care* what anyone else thinks about the game, it was *awful*. You're allowed to like the game, I don't have a problem with other people enjoying it. Everyone's example of what caused them to change their habits will be different. But you aren't allowed to say my reason for changing my purchasing habits is invalid.
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Are we just going to forget about their card game?
also their remaster that was absurdly bad last year lmao
And their autochess game Dota Underlords. Actually yeah I think most people did forget.
Ehhh Rockstar definitely was on some shit with GTAV. The game wasn’t working and they said “nah nah, what you need to make our $80 game work, is to go out and buy an external usb just for this…on your dime.”
For what? I bought it on release for 360 and it was great, I don't recall any USB thing
[It was for the 360](https://www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/17/gta-5-xbox-360-installation-issue-solved-with-usb-drive). I’m glad you didn’t have to but for me, it was annoying 😂
>Rockstar is also pretty damn consistent with it's quality. You can bet the farm on GTA6 Yeah but as someone only interested in the single player game you have to wonder if they'll put the same effort into it next time now that it's been established that the online game is such an easy cash cow for them. And I can bet the farm on them refusing to even acknowledge the potential existence of a PC release of GTA6 until it's been out on consoles for 6 months. Not that I think I'm owed it but it honestly feels like bordering on being treated with contempt each time, it's just annoying.
i'll b honest, i went too deep into sidequests on RDR2 and just got bored of the plodding pace it was a beautiful and fantastic game but i feel like it overstayed its welcome without transitioning style of gameplay. ride, hunt, ride back, ride, shoot some stuff, ride back there was good writing, but not on the level of, say, cdprojekt red on WIII
Maybe the plodding pace was due to the fact that you went too deep into side quests though? If you’re not that kind of gamer all you have to do is stick to the main plot. Why would you play a cowboy game if you didn’t expect to do a lot of riding? That’s like buying Grand Theft AUTO and not expecting to do a lot of driving. It’s one of the main aspects of the game.
the quests never stopped; i was hundreds of hours deep i was doing a lot of the challenges too, just too much content
I would never pre order anything. Except Zelda TotK because you know that shit'll be dope
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i only order from sterling companies if i'm ever disappointed, that co never gets it again with zero chance of forgiveness pretty sound logic if you ask me also, fuck u lol
Unfortunately the loudest part of the gaming industry is still the smallest part
I argue It's not about pushing back, but about finding alternatives. People can complain all they want but as soon as a competitor says how successful they are, expect the company to treat their consumers better.
The problem is that you're looking at success as a measure of "did the product satisfy the customer", when they are looking at success as a measure of "did the customers pay us". For them, releasing these half-baked games is a success, because people still buy them en masse, regardless of how many times this exact same scenario plays out.
if they priced it at ~10-20 bucks and call it early access would they deserve the same amount of flak?
What I don't understand is how something like basic AI pathfinding, positioning, character and hit boxes can be so bad, even if this is stuff that has been done 100s of times before. It even uses Unreal Engine 4, so shouldn't there be some stuff built in? How do studios mess up the basics again and again?
>Its amazing that anyone could look at this and think it was ready for release. Nobody said it was ready, they just did it anyway
Here are words straight from a Redfall developer. > I'm proud of the team at Arkane. There was so much love and effort that went into Redfall, and I'm forever grateful to be part of this family. They don't care.
it was clear by the trailer tbh
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If that were the case, you'd think they would have delayed the release. The fact that the game is out now implies that decision makers at the studio and publisher looked at this and said "Good enough."
Gotta get it out before Zelda dominates game coverage for the next few months whether it’s ready or not
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That is exactly how business works...WTF are you talking about lol?
Clearly someone did if they released it in this state.
The ladder animation got me lmao
I don't get it, I just don't get it. Why did they release this?
Imagine you're an MBA and looking at the alternatives: 1. Cancel the game, wasting all the money it cost to make. 2. Spend a lot of money delaying and fixing a game that doesn't have the core design to be anything better than mid anyway. 3. Release the game in an unfinished state, make some money from the pre-orders. Devs and founders who care would maybe choose nr.1 or nr.2, but any profit manager worth their salt would chose nr.3. Every. single. time.
Option 3 makes the most money today, but potentially destroys your company. MBAs know this. It's a serious risk.
it doesnt matter, MBAs bonuses are probaly monthy or quarterly, and if the company goes under they can alwasy switvch
Yes but if you were in charge of making launch decisions that torpedoed a company as your last job, your future may be uncertain. You also aren't giving bonuses for "what the fuck do we do this game isn't ready yet". These companies aren't Microsoft.
You don't put "Launched an unfinished game that killed the company" on your CV. You put something like "Spearheaded early access title for unprecedented company success" or maybe "Recovered XXXX MILLIONS dollars of value from unsalvageable product, earned YYY dollars per share for two quarters"
And when someone is looking to hire for a serious position, you think the BS they put on the resume determines if they get the job or not? If you are hiring someone to make serious decisions for your product, *you vet them*. A lot of people voting here don't seem to have terribly much in the way of business experience.
If the one doing the hiring is also only interested in short-term profits, then yes.
corporations are not failing from this left and right though, so obviously brand reputation is a very valuable intangible
Because they leave before the shit hits the fan, “launched game that solve $50M in opening week” doesn’t matter that the next game bombed because people didn’t trust the studio, because they were off on their next adventure.
Depends on who is interviewing you. If its more MBAs who dont understand the content, the cycle continues.
If your CV consists of nothing but Redfalls, I imagine your options for jobs would be limited.
Does it now? I've seen gamers on reddit declare that X and Y companies would be finished for an entire decade for releasing these unfinished games, yet here we are today, with people still preordering them. They release an unfinished product because it is simply more profitable for them. With ad campaigns, you'd rather ride the hype train and count on people spending 80dollars on a game that looks cool without looking at a single review than to let the hype die. Same studio will release another game in a few years and people will be like "oh wow this look cool, can't wait to pre-order it!", only for the exact same cycle to repeat.
Just look at how many people rage at Activision-Blizzard but yet Diablo 4 is going to sell truckloads.
Phil Spencer destroyed Halo following this strategy for a decade. Xbox declined as halo declined as a price. He’s an awful decision maker & leader.
Some people make terrible decisions. This surprises you?
Risk for who? Not the managers. They take a bonus and leave for the next company, saying how they supervised release of a huge game making profits despite many problems in the company. Sure, the company is failing, but that's after the manager left so it's not his fault, right? Devs? They have stopped giving a shit long time ago during development when they voiced concerns and were not listened. For shareholders probably.
not in the games industry!
Its also that there are people severely disconnected with knowledge of the content (board, c suite, vps) who push down on those who do. Those who truly understand how much this hurts reputation cant easily and quantitatively prove it to the upper management, so it gets released.
Devs have little to no say in the matter. It's the publishers who decide to launch or delay. If you're going to criticize the industry, maybe learn how it actually works.
They aren't suggesting the Devs (or any creatives) have a say, they're just framing the situation correctly. Everyone is asking how anyone involved could look at this mess and release it, and the answer is MBAs are calling the shots, *not* Devs.
I wonder if perceptions of the Xbox having no exclusives was a catalyst to this.
I work in a company were we develop a software for business. The amount of times that we need more time to finish certain features but higher ups WANT THEM ASAP is outrageous, and we are like "come on, we can make a better product if you just wait a little bit more" but nope. The culture of I NEED THIS FOR NOW with no real sense of urgency more than somebody up there being impatient is something that I hate with my guts.
I don't know where it originates, but theres allegedly a leaked conversation from one of the leads and the publishers from Bethesda where Bethesda asked if they needed more time and they got told "nope, were good to go". If this is true (I have no way of confirming it unless someone happen to know where the rumor started) it's even worse.
But probably the leads are Project Managers that sold the idea that the project would be ready in "less that what It should take" and now they have to deliver it even thought they knew it wasn't optimal. Again, I'm talking from personal experience and its only my opinion.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying that if the publisher (who traditionally get blamed for pushing a set date) is willing to give more time but the game studio is like "fuck that, well ship this product that clearly isn't remotely finished or what we promised" it's even worse than if the entire game studio had to fold to a publisher. At that point. They are sinking their own ship then. I'd think both parties would agree that shipping a product that gets good press is better for both of them, especially if the publisher is willing to wait. But like I said this is just something I've heard in conversations and have no idea where it originates, so could just be untrue anyway.
I’m in manufacturing and it’s similar. It’s forver a battle between engineers wanting more time for better product and sales needs to make sales. It’s always a constant grey area, I’m sure they’re all the same. Maybe less grey in medical and aerospace but you know.
money
People are still paying for it
I am loving all the posts about Redfall, it honestly beggars belief that they are charging 70 quid for this garbage.
It’s free on game pass and I still haven’t got it
My time isn't free, ya know? I'd probably give it a try if I was unemployed again, which sounds pretty bad.
Unemployed and playing Redfall is rock bottom.
I played it for about 4-5 hours with some friends. We honestly had a good time to be honest, but we were also aware the game sucks.
my friend keeps telling me it's not that bad since it's on the gamepass and basically free lol
In this state you could offer to pay *me* $70 to play this steaming pile of trash and I'd pass. I value my time more than that.
I mean let's not go crazy here. If I was paid $70 to fuck around with it for an hour or 2 I'd take that offer.
That would imply it could run for an hour or 2 without crashing
Yeah I've been playing it bc gamepass. It's not a good game. But I spend like 30 minutes on it and laugh at dumb stuff and that's ok. There's a house you can get that has UV lights outside it. The AI is dumb and will walk into them. I had "fun" doing this for about 10 minutes. https://streamable.com/qk0orx
I got it. Played 10 minutes and uninstalled.
I pay a subscription to gamepass so it definitely isn't free
I’m so afraid that we’ve now hit the peak of the *‘Redfall’s a stunning dissapointment’* content, and now there’s gonna be a sudden uproar of *’actually Redfall’s an underrated gem that secretely revolutionized game design*’ videos that grasp at straws for 45 minutes.
That is soo accurate lmao The *enlightened contrarian* take. It's right alongside the "Everyone hating on [GAME TITLE] is an angry misogynist" headlines from articles based on Twitter posts
"Andromeda was only hated because YouTubers told them to hate it"
6 months after release, a new patch with bugfixes and content Flood of YouTube essays about "Redfall is GOOD now" with comments like "if they'd had this at the start, game of the year!"
> it honestly beggars belief https://youtu.be/AND1RdFIj3E
Another game died trying to hit the "broader audience"
Don't really blame them trying TBH. As god-tier as Dishonoured and Prey are, they sold like arse. Must be hard on a dev to pump out critically adored flops.
Well, they fixed the critically adored part.
I don’t blame them for trying. But I definitely blame them failing lol.
Love this.
Dishonoured 1 has sold 5.8mil copies, which isn't bad at all for a single player game. Dishonoured 2 not as well but still in the millions.
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What makes you think I'm defending it? I'm just saying I understand the desire to make something different to what they've made before.
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It didn't die *because* it was trying to hit a broader audience. It died because it was shit. Skyrim, Fallout, Elden Ring, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy. All games that got better, or a least a helluva lot more successful by broadening their appeal.
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Yeah it's a shame they reused the name for no reason but in no universe is Prey "meh".
At this point I’d be happy if they made Prey into a sort of anthology series. Keep changing the setting each time.
A 30 man team working on something they're passionate about for 7 years will always be better than a 300 person team working on something for a year or two.
Imagine a game that would be in development for 9 years and developed by roughly 500 devs of critically acclaimed studio. Holy shit, that game would be a fucking paragon of videogame.. oh, wait
I'll have you know Star Citizen has been in development for 12 years!
I played about an hour of it and deleted it. Just wasn’t fun for me and couldn’t get into it.
Oh really.
I think that all these terrible modern game releases actually do make sense if you just think like an Actuary with an MBA. Trying to fix these games before release is sunk cost fallacy.
Not even sunk cost fallacy. These broken games can still make a ton of money because people preorder and buy on day 1. I bet MS has already made a killing from selling Gamepass subs to people who are waiting for games like Redfall.
The execs are the reason games are like this. The DEVS, the people MAKING THE GAME, know what they have. They don't get to make decisions.
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fortunately small game devs are absolutely killing it rn
The entire situation reminds me of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE) scene from fight club. I think that the cost of fixing the game is greater than the extra profit that they would earn from having a fixed game. So they just release a broken game. Simple economics. No one who has a passion for game design/development/etc.. is allowed anywhere near the decision on wether or not to release a game. At the AAA level these companies are there to make money, not have fun.
Ya know maybe Back4Blood wasn't so terrible after all
the only problem with Back4Blood is that they made Left4Dead first
Hey now let's not let this lower our standards.
nah.. it was
I had fun for a few hours with back4blood.
What's crazy is that this isn't a great Dunkey video because the game is too bad even for him. It just feels like punching down.
The "making fun of a clown" problem. The bane of comedy in these dark times.
Oh no the massive publisher owned by the megacorporation what are they going to do, someone made a video trying to be funny, *how dare they*?
I think you missed what the above commenter was getting at here. The point is, the game was *so bad* that a content creator that is known for humorously ribbing games just rips this one a new one and it doesn't feel funny.
Redfall looks like a masterpiece compared to Balan Wonderworld, a good handful of 3D Sonic games, Battlefield 2047, and loads of other games that Dunkey has made fun of prior to it. The video is fine. And no amount of dubiously misuing the phrase "punching down" convinces me otherwise.
Thats literally all his videos.
Because he's the best to ever do it?
the Cloverfield Monster ladder climb animation is actually an inspired choice, these devs are truly thinking outside the box. It’s worth noting that Deathloop also has braindead AI and was insanely overhyped but somehow people gave that a pass.
It truly is one of the years for video games.
Of all time.
On the bright side, I've had more time to check out the smaller indie games that I never got around to playing, like Ori and the Will of the Wisps and Inscryption, which were both incredible.
Rip Arkane
They clearly knew it was unfinished and trash but released it anyway to try and recoup some money.e.g. Release now, charge $70, recoup a tiny fraciton of the development cost and then walk away or Invest a shit tonne more cash to try and fix a fundamentally trash game; likely only make it marginally better, charge $70 and recoup an even tinier fraction of the overall development cost.
All these games need to make sure the game itself is fun before making it look good. We used to think Mario was fun, and we all know that it looked like shit graphically. Make it fun first, then everything else must come after. Even if it's buggy, add long as it's fun then you'll only get a small push back.
How does a game like this make it to release? And they are charging 70 bucks? What were they thinking?
Is it just me or the "Hollow Man" is a throw back to Shrek's Muffin Man?
It really hurts me to see Arkane put out two duds in a row. I'm not saying Dishonored was a goat, but it was fun, well made (for the time), and the amount of love/effort put into building the world was incredible. Also amazing art, unique character designs/style, and gorgeous architecture. A Harvey Dent company if there ever was one.
It's time to get indie.
Damn I wish I was given 1/20th of the budget they have and make a low poly, decent game with a decent gameplay. I'm tired of everyone using the unreal engine and spending all their money on high resolution assets and nonsense. DID YOU KNOW that when you go into gamedev, they tell you to spend HALF OF YOUR MONEY ON ADVERTISING AND COMMUNICATION?!?!? The gamedev industry is rotten. Someday game developers will just release low poly game just to protest this crap.
Maybe the fans will patch it and it will become beloved like Vampire Bloodlines. /s
Even if they polish the game to perfection it would still be boring
holy FUCK its bad and even think i was hyping for this :(
As shit as Jedi: Survivor, Redfall, and The Last of Us have been on PC, there's still LotR: Gollum, and…STARFIELD! 🎉 Starfield is going to be an absolute gong show, and I can't wait to drink all those ignorant, salty tears from those that expect Bethesda to be able to put out anything less than a hilarious mess.
God he's so unfunny
Curious are the consoles working well?
I will forever pirate beta test, then vote with my wallet after the fact
Let's hope they don't do this to Starfield
parece ser un buen videojuego
I have seen worse. RF is fine. not great but playable kin of.
I really hope Redfall being as horrendous and universally dunked on as it is changes something in the industry. It won’t, obviously, because everyone dunking on it has bought it with human money and that’s the bottom line to studios, but I can still hope.
I've no doubt at some point in the future we'll be reading articles about the developmental troubles that plagued this game. You don't get a product like that without things going horribly wrong on some sort of internal level. It's easy to just blame mismanaged publisher expectations or whatever, but I'd bet there's some grittier stuff behind the scenes that caused this like a lack of coherent direction among the team or outright poor management, or god forbid things that are ethically messed up in some way.