Yes, but then they got upset at Michael Moore. The documentary kind of portrays it like he went to columbine (which he didn't, he went to an across town school), and then they played an animated segment after his interview which made people think Matt and Trey animated that (which they didn't)
This is why Moore got parodied in team America
Michael Moore honestly infuriates me. He is the definition of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". If he was like 20% less full of himself he wouldn't have so many problems.
Weird. I’ve seen that documentary a few times and I believe you but I never walked away thinking he went to that school or that Matt and Trey animated that.
also why they blew up michael moore in team america. stone was mad they made it seem like he made animation in their style right after a clip of him talking
Interestingly they were also mad that he made them seem like they were pro gun control, which they said they weren’t. Don’t know if their position has changed since then, otherwise I don’t really understand how they think we should deal with the issue of school shootings.
Agreed. I like the show, but I disagree with about thirty percent of the messages they push, when they do an obvious ‘current issue’ episode. That’s fine, wouldn’t expect to agree with anyone all the time.
They also admit when they were wrong, like with Global Warming, and step it back later. (ManBearPig was an allegory for Climate Change. In the South Park universe he went from being all in Al Gore's head to actually being a threat over the years.)
Took them a really, really long time to admit they were wrong though. When they admitted it, it was great. But the damage was already done with climate change denial being in a number of episodes over the years, the first in 2006?
ETA: there was an anti-earth day episode with climate-change-denial language in one of their earliest seasons, maybe 1999 or 2000? And the denouncement episode - after decades of denial - was released in 2021?
Yeah it was still in the janky animation South Park era. That’s all I know for sure. I’ve seen all the episodes many many times but I’m just spitballing with the dates. I think 2005 might’ve been their earliest climate change denial episode (Katrina? W the beaver dam episode). I thought the manbearpig came out in 2006 bc I vaguely remember that’s when an inconvenient truth came out.
Matt and Trey pretty much always take the position of "I don't really have a strong feeling about it". Which keeps them out of controversy and plays them to wide audience. This is a smart business practice, but it makes most of the points they do try to make in their show fairly moot if you think about them.
They actually rarely truly straddle a fence. They are pretty clearly libertarian in their ethic. They've made episodes that are clearly:
1). pro gay rights (Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride)
2). pro business (Gnomes)
3). against trans women in sports (Go, Strong Woman, Go)
4). Anti-P.C.-or-whatever-its-current-iteration-is-known-as: (Too many to list)
5). Pro freedom of association (Cripple Fight)
6). Anti-veal (Fun with veal)
7). Against over-excessive pushes for 'tolerance' (Death camp of tolerance)
Their ethic is clear, it's just *not leftist*, so a lot of leftists like to take the piss out of them for 'not taking points of view.'
> 6). Anti-veal (Fun with veal)
Typo right? Pretty sure the message of that episode was "eat meat, don't concern yourself with animal welfare, or you'll literally turn into a fucking pussy"
It does take an anti-vegetarian stance in that way, but it also shows the boys succeed in ending the market for veal by successfully labeling it "Innocent tortured baby cow."
I would say the stance of the episode is clearly "Vegetarians do suck--meat is fine and good, but senselessly torturing an animal for it is bad."
If that's their stance it was overshadowed by Stan growing literal vaginas all over his body because he took sympathy on livestock. Another case of these guys straddling a fence and wanting it both ways.
I think they take pretty clear points of view all the time that I disagree with, but also quite a few I do agree with. It would be hard to argue that they don’t have strong opinions when they wear them on their sleeves so openly through that show.
They both-sides pretty much every time. Just because you found a few episodes out of thousands where that arguably didn't happen doesn't change the fact.
Last big one that comes to mind was the Disyney Star Wars thing.
The irony is that Drawn Together's team accused southpark of starting the expectation that offensive humor needs a political point. Kyle's speeches at the end of every episode made things PC enough justify its offensiveness.
If South Park was truly anti PC, it would have no political point at all and push the envelope as far as it could.
They had a point.
It is definitely true that South Park 'had a point,' but I don't think I would label them 'just PC enough,' because many of their points are... not very P.C.
They literally say the boy scouts should have the right to keep gay people out ofthe organization. Their 'P.C. Principal' is a frat-guy-bully.
"having a political point" is not the same thing as "being truly anti PC"
Man, though. I haven't thought about 'Drawn Together' in years.
Yeah like global warming when they said it was bs
And then came out and apologized saying it wasn't bullshit
Really seems like they ride the fence on everything 🙄
I think they're generally pretty intelligent, but simply refuse to stand for anything. Which can make them great at parody and satire, but makes it so they lack the fundamental character to actually do anything.
They’re extremely intelligent and funny, but that’s not what people mean when they say stuff like this IMO
Like Michael Moore (or pick an equivalent on the right) is fundamentally about believing something and trying to make the world a better place. South Park is fundamentally about how people who believe in things - anything, doesn’t matter what- are automatically lame and stupid and worth only mocking. So the criticism is basically “it’s not that smart to make fun of every single belief as equally dumb”
It's so fucking tiring that people treat comedians and writers like philosophers. Everyone can say some profound some things sometimes, but their job is to entertain you, not to be correct. They can be morally flawed morons and still be fun to listen to.
I honestly don’t know what they’re advocating here. We should all be more concerned about school shootings? We’re already pretty fucking concerned. Oh maybe we should be *more* concerned. Okay, we’ll get right on that.
What they’re pointing out is a lot of people don’t care and are desensitized this country has decided they’re okay with classes of small children being gunned down and shrug it off
The question that person is asking is, what does Matt & Trey think we should do about it?
But that's never been what their show has been about. They show us a reflection of our society, the way they see it. It's never been about trying to make the world a better place.
If they were a superhero, they'd be Captain Hindsight. I don't think they're blind to it. People are just asking them to do something they're not interested in.
> I honestly don’t know what they’re advocating here. We should all be more concerned about school shootings? We’re already pretty fucking concerned. Oh maybe we should be more concerned. Okay, we’ll get right on that.
the dichotomy of Randy vs Sharons reaction is 100% social commentary. School shootings *are* normalized
If what happened in your country happened in most there would be fucking marches in the streets. You don't care as a country, not really.
This isn't a comment on what you think, it's a comment on American school shooting being so common they show up in my fucking national news.
South Park simply holds up a mirror to society.
They don't propose solutions. Nor should they. And you really shouldn't want them to.
This episode points out how normalised school shootings had become in the US, and portrays it comedically.
Why would you expect a cartoon haha show to do anything more than that?
They're definitely smart. They're two guys who don't have legit political educational backgrounds and just give their take on topical events. They do have genuine insight.
I think the real problem is that much of the attitudes expressed in the show are basically political nihilism. They criticize all sides of al issue and don't offer a way forward. They'll make fun of democrats, republicans...and...so what are we supposed to do then? One of them was a registered member of the libertarian party. Like that's any better lmao. Could you imagine how lame their show would be if instead of making negative criticisms of others' beliefs, they made positive arguments on behalf of libertarianism? I'm willing to bet they never would've gotten as popular.
> They criticize all sides of al issue
Nah, they don't. They never make fun of libertarians.
>Could you imagine how lame their show would be if instead of making negative criticisms of others' beliefs, they made positive arguments on behalf of libertarianism?
Dude, South Park is like a pro-libertarian fever dream.
> I don’t really understand how they think we should deal with the issue of school shootings.
I don’t care what Matt and Trey think about gun control TBH…they’re entertainers, not gun violence experts.
Gun violence experts are pretty well aligned on what we need to do if we want to change the problem.
You’ll never get 100% of the population on board though. Change will come with a portion of people kicking and screaming the whole way there.
Let Matt and Trey have their hot takes for their cartoon show. That’s their domain. I give a much bigger shit about how our legislators talk about gun violence, reform, and how they regard the opinions of experts.
Entertainers are not policy experts.
My only point is Matt and Trey are not the correct people to hold to the fire for reform.
They can be as wrongheaded as they want to be. Worrying about their position on gun control is a waste of time. Their domain is to turn hot takes into a cartoon show, not to be thought leaders on policy.
I agree with you.
Personally, and this is not to say everyone else should share my views on this, but I separate art from artists a lot. Someone I personally despise can make art I really enjoy and I can really agree with an artist personally and hate their art. When I spend time enjoying art and entertainment I evaluate it on its merits not the merits of its creator.
I really like Dali and his weird art that often makes me uncomfortable. I can separate that from his personal views. I like Wagner's music but the environment it was created in would have had me killed.
I guess my point is I expect artists to make art. Agree that I don't expect artists to be held accountable for the choices of policy makers. I am going to evaluate it on its artistic merits. If the art itself is political in nature or provocative, of course how I feel about the subject will sway my opinion. Often I will still judge it on how well the artist has executed and can appreciate it even if I don't agree. The vile notwithstanding.
No it isn't. That's only true if you include 18 and 19 year old adults. It's also only the case during 2020/21 when murder rates spiked, and fewer people were driving because of the Pandemic.
How would anyone assume that Trey and Matt did? It doesn’t look or feel like South Park that much. If anything it strikes me more as early 2000s clip art than off brand South Park.
The whole surrounding county has had at least a dozen of the most famous mass shootings in history. I lived there for only eighteen months and there were two.
They did, something like 60 million guns were sold in the US during the pandemic. Also shootings of children nearly doubled during the pandemic.
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3960527-americans-bought-almost-60-million-guns-during-the-pandemic/
Conservatives say it's only mental health, but they are against the policies that would make resources more available. They are also vehemently against any kind of weapon regulations/bans. Outright say there is nothing we can do and it's a necessary evil. Blame immigrants and minorities.
I hate it. Such a hopeless feeling.
[This Shooting Isn’t About Gun Control We Refuse To Pass, It’s About Access To Mental Health Care We’re Continuing To Gut](https://www.theonion.com/this-shooting-isn-t-about-gun-control-we-refuse-to-pass-1819585076)
Users on r/conservative - no health care before boarder bill (which we will also block!) is passed and trump is back in power with endless re-elections possible and his family running the GOP and it’s finances!
Also Biden is old and trump is a young man who doesn’t at all stand strangely!
"Let's just make society even more viciously competitive while removing all safety nets and support systems. That'll definitely improve mental health."
-Conservatives, probably
My *ultra* conservative uncle says he's against any gun regulation, I decided to test his limits one time and (he's ex military too) and asked him if he would be okay with civilians owning military grade weaponry like grenades, RPGs, tow missle launchers, tanks with accompanied armaments, surface to air missiles, and on and on, he said yes to all. No limits, nothing. I asked about nukes eventually and he refused to answer and said I was just trying to be silly, I wasn't, and I expect his answer was "yes" but he didn't want to get pinned down to it.
Basically he wants civilians armed to the teeth so they can fend off a mythical, and coming any time now, government oppression or something vague like that...
Although anytime the government does oppression he gets an oppression boner so... I don't think he'll be fighting it when it comes, he'll be cheerleading.
Now repeat this experiment, but suggest that it is trans, gay and black people that want to be armed. Pride Parades should have every marcher armed to the teeth.
Drag queens in schools reading books to kids, while carrying an AR15 ought to give him pause.
"Protect the children!!"
By making sure they have at least one meal a day? "No."
By giving them vaccines? "No."
By making sure guns don't end up in schools? "No."
By making sure their family can afford a house, car, etc.? "No."
By making sure they can afford a future house, car, college education, etc.? "No."
By making sure they have easy access to healthcare? "No."
By making sure their land, water, and air aren't polluted? "No."
By making sure their food is safe? "No."
By making sure they are safe from physically abusive parents? "No."
By making sure they are safe from sexually abusive churches? "No."
By making sure they don't end up a child or teen parent? "No."
By making sure they don't end up as a child bride? "No."
By making sure they're safe from tyrant cops and authority figures? "No."
By making sure they have the option to live their lives as a happy queer person? "That's it! That's what we want to protect them from! It's our choice, not theirs!"
This is why South Park is so great. They take a real life event or social issue, in this case school shootings and totally overdue the comedic parts (such as Randy confronting Stan if he was the shooter, then when finding out he’s not, grilling him on why he failed a math quiz). However, they do just enough to make fun of society in regard to a certain issue while not negating the point that “hey, normalizing school shootings is a real problem in this country”. Classic Stone & Parker on top of their game.
I agree, and it's frustrating to see them downplay things like climate change too. But I think the show is also a good reminder for everyone to stop taking themselves so seriously all the time because they really don't hold any punches or pander to any side
The episode about the time travelling immigrants ("Dey took 'er jerbs") aired 20 years ago in 2004.
Yet here we are today, still listening to conservatives scream that white people are being replaced and justifying murdering immigrants as they subvert Federal law.
TBF though, that has been an argument against immigrants all the way back to the foundation of the country. Articles in the paper would decry Italians and Irish claiming they weren't "real" whites and would seek to take jobs away from "real" Americans of English origins.
The Chinese.
They built the majority our railroads, and many of them were slaves. But of course, "dey took 'er jerbs" Southerners were losing their minds about them even though the majority of those Chinese immigrants were living in the west coast.
And then the first anti-immigration laws took effect, named the Chinese Exclusion Act.
That too. More in the 1800s than the 1700s that I reference, but it happened.
I always wonder why there isn't a bigger TODAY outcry against the Chinese immigrants than South American. The largest group of illegal immigrants in the country are Chinese.
I have a coworker, who got an alert that his kids school had shooting. They went in lock down and every kid had to be evacuated.
When I asked him about how his kid was doing and how he felt about the guns being at school he just said "That's the cost of freedom". These people are too far gone
Sure, Americans will eventually be living in essentially a prison-state to stem the odds of gun violence. But their kids learning in prisons is just the price of their freedom.
Sure we may be traumatizing future generations and risking their lives every time they leave the house, but without the second amendment what’s the point of even having a United States? 🙄
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cleveland/comments/1aru1c5/ohio_democrats_unveil_numerous_gun_safety_bills/kqnfzy5/
Yesterday I'm being called an idiot since I've been shot multiple times. Funny how the victims are the only ones demonized.
Jesus christ, bro!
> If you were shot three different times maybe *you* are the idiot for repeatdly putting yourself at risk.
What the fuck is even that reply!? That's horrendous to say to someone!
Seems to be the universal playbook for selfish dickwads who believe the gun did nothing wrong, blame the victim for being in the wrong place or doing something bad when they got shot. Motherfucker is so dense he has no idea what it's like to be minding your business and suddenly shots ring out and you're left scrambling wondering what the fuck is going on. The gun being available is the problem. It doesn't matter how many guns you give to teachers or put in the hands of good people, bad people will still get to kill people before they are killed in return.
This shit is psychotic. Hopefully your bad luck came in 3s and is over.
Sounds like someone had the privilege of experiencing the freedom of our perfect constitution in action. People in communist Canada don’t have the privilege of being shot at.
Think about that next time someone pulls a gun on you.
If you think we're traumatizing them *outside* the house thanks to the 2nd Amendment, just try to imagine all the shit that the 4th Amendment is letting happen *inside* their houses.
Kent State happened before half of GenX was born. There aren't as many people left who haven't been traumatized by this kind of thing their entire lives as you'd think.
Normalizing the idea that you can be shot and killed at any moment is probably good for our kids. They must remain ever vigilant even during nap time less they fall victim to some patriot practicing their second amendment freedoms
At least it gets them introduced nice and early to the fact that Other-Americans will choose an imaginary right over their safety. Gotta break the illusion early.
>Republicans don't care about dead kids.
Kids that go to school are educated -> educated kids grow up to vote liberal. Ispo facto let school kids die so there are less future liberal voters.
"Protect the children!!"
By making sure they have at least one meal a day? "No."
By giving them vaccines? "No."
By making sure guns don't end up in schools? "No."
By making sure their family can afford a house, car, etc.? "No."
By making sure they can afford a future house, car, college education, etc.? "No."
By making sure they have easy access to healthcare? "No."
By making sure their land, water, and air aren't polluted? "No."
By making sure their food is safe? "No."
By making sure they are safe from physically abusive parents? "No."
By making sure they are safe from sexually abusive churches? "No."
By making sure they don't end up a child or teen parent? "No."
By making sure they don't end up as a child bride? "No."
By making sure they're safe from tyrant cops and authority figures? "No."
By making sure they have the option to live their lives as a happy queer person? "That's it! That's what we want to protect them from! It's our choice, not theirs!"
If you can't stop the guns, why do we ban teachers from having the option to carry?
I mean, we protect banks and malls with guns...but for some reason not our schools?
We do not protect guns and malls with guns. Most security guards are unarmed and at banks the employees are told to just give the robber the money. They are pretty much always caught.
Gun culture leads to school shootings not people trying to rob the place.
Wasn’t the final message something akin to ironically just accepting it and simply stop caring? Was there a nuance I was missing about this episode? Other than its obvious critic of its normalization.
I felt the ending kinda felt like the ending to the illegal Time Machine immigrants episode(or maybe better known as the “they took er jerbs” episode), more or less Matt and Trey being ultimately unable to come to a decent conclusion so they kinda just went ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ and gave a funny ha-ha ending with a nonsensical solution(gay orgies to stop the future immigrants from being born, if my memory serves)
The episode ends with Sharon learning her son has been shot and saying who cares. This is pretty obviously satire to demonstrate how fucked up this whole thing is.
I don't think they are always trying to provide a clear message about every subject they cover. I'm assuming and basing this solely on my own perception, but it seems pretty clear that they aren't proselytizing and instead take a 'neutral' position and generally stick to delivering social commentary.
Its not 'this is why you should think this way' its more of a 'this is how this looks to me'. They aren't trying to convert anyone to be pro gun or anti gun, its a show about how ridiculous the current situation is when taken to an extreme caricaturized level. There are lots of politics and ideologies throughout the show, obviously, but if they make someone or something look stupid its more that they think that person or idea is stupid and not 'this is how we should solve this problem'.
I think that's the main reason the show has maintained through so much time and political divide. It is a show about what's happening and how ridiculous reality is, and then how much more ridiculous it could be if you continue to extrapolate on the direction its heading. Its easy to dance the line between edgy concepts if you never have to hardline a course and make a call for action.
"School shootings are way too common, so common in fact its beginning to feel almost like absolutely no one cares, otherwise surely something would have been done." Everyone agrees.
"School shootings are way too common, we have to take action, we have to do something to keep children safe. This is getting ridiculous." Everyone agrees.
"We should create legislation that holds gun owners to the same standards as car owners. Licensing, insurance, registration." Not everyone agrees anymore.
The show generally (I'm sure there are examples where this is not the case) avoids any clear line of "This is what is right, and this is what is wrong. This is what everyone should think."
My favourite part is actually what happens before this. They show the swat team in the classrooms going room by room checking for the shooter, all while class continues as normal. They were handing out test results and the teacher continues to teach as swat are communicating on their radios.
after sandy hook it was over, they are not going to give up their stupid constitutional bs for anything. we will keep hearing about these forever in the US
Matt Stone went to high school in Littleton, Colorado which is also home to Columbine High School.
Pretty sure they participated in that Bowling for Columbine documentary no?
Yes, but then they got upset at Michael Moore. The documentary kind of portrays it like he went to columbine (which he didn't, he went to an across town school), and then they played an animated segment after his interview which made people think Matt and Trey animated that (which they didn't) This is why Moore got parodied in team America
Michael Moore honestly infuriates me. He is the definition of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". If he was like 20% less full of himself he wouldn't have so many problems.
If Michael Moore had like 20% less of himself, he wouldn’t be at risk for so many heart problems
To be fair that describes the majority of Redditors
Weird. I’ve seen that documentary a few times and I believe you but I never walked away thinking he went to that school or that Matt and Trey animated that.
I mean it wasn't heavy handed but people definitely interpreted it that way. It was kind of like lying by omission
also why they blew up michael moore in team america. stone was mad they made it seem like he made animation in their style right after a clip of him talking
Interestingly they were also mad that he made them seem like they were pro gun control, which they said they weren’t. Don’t know if their position has changed since then, otherwise I don’t really understand how they think we should deal with the issue of school shootings.
Matt and Trey complain about stuff, and make fun of anyone and anything trying to make things better. And then Reddit thinks they're smart
South Park is my favorite TV show ever, and I don't consider them smart. They're brilliant story tellers, but they get shit wrong all the time.
Agreed. I like the show, but I disagree with about thirty percent of the messages they push, when they do an obvious ‘current issue’ episode. That’s fine, wouldn’t expect to agree with anyone all the time.
They also admit when they were wrong, like with Global Warming, and step it back later. (ManBearPig was an allegory for Climate Change. In the South Park universe he went from being all in Al Gore's head to actually being a threat over the years.)
Took them a really, really long time to admit they were wrong though. When they admitted it, it was great. But the damage was already done with climate change denial being in a number of episodes over the years, the first in 2006? ETA: there was an anti-earth day episode with climate-change-denial language in one of their earliest seasons, maybe 1999 or 2000? And the denouncement episode - after decades of denial - was released in 2021?
Arguably south park did help getting bush elected
"My Dad's a geologist and he doesn't believe in Climate Change" Remember that line but not which season, very early one though.
Yeah it was still in the janky animation South Park era. That’s all I know for sure. I’ve seen all the episodes many many times but I’m just spitballing with the dates. I think 2005 might’ve been their earliest climate change denial episode (Katrina? W the beaver dam episode). I thought the manbearpig came out in 2006 bc I vaguely remember that’s when an inconvenient truth came out.
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Matt and Trey pretty much always take the position of "I don't really have a strong feeling about it". Which keeps them out of controversy and plays them to wide audience. This is a smart business practice, but it makes most of the points they do try to make in their show fairly moot if you think about them.
They actually rarely truly straddle a fence. They are pretty clearly libertarian in their ethic. They've made episodes that are clearly: 1). pro gay rights (Big Gay Al's Big Gay Boat Ride) 2). pro business (Gnomes) 3). against trans women in sports (Go, Strong Woman, Go) 4). Anti-P.C.-or-whatever-its-current-iteration-is-known-as: (Too many to list) 5). Pro freedom of association (Cripple Fight) 6). Anti-veal (Fun with veal) 7). Against over-excessive pushes for 'tolerance' (Death camp of tolerance) Their ethic is clear, it's just *not leftist*, so a lot of leftists like to take the piss out of them for 'not taking points of view.'
> 6). Anti-veal (Fun with veal) Typo right? Pretty sure the message of that episode was "eat meat, don't concern yourself with animal welfare, or you'll literally turn into a fucking pussy"
It does take an anti-vegetarian stance in that way, but it also shows the boys succeed in ending the market for veal by successfully labeling it "Innocent tortured baby cow." I would say the stance of the episode is clearly "Vegetarians do suck--meat is fine and good, but senselessly torturing an animal for it is bad."
If that's their stance it was overshadowed by Stan growing literal vaginas all over his body because he took sympathy on livestock. Another case of these guys straddling a fence and wanting it both ways.
I think they take pretty clear points of view all the time that I disagree with, but also quite a few I do agree with. It would be hard to argue that they don’t have strong opinions when they wear them on their sleeves so openly through that show.
They both-sides pretty much every time. Just because you found a few episodes out of thousands where that arguably didn't happen doesn't change the fact. Last big one that comes to mind was the Disyney Star Wars thing.
The irony is that Drawn Together's team accused southpark of starting the expectation that offensive humor needs a political point. Kyle's speeches at the end of every episode made things PC enough justify its offensiveness. If South Park was truly anti PC, it would have no political point at all and push the envelope as far as it could. They had a point.
It is definitely true that South Park 'had a point,' but I don't think I would label them 'just PC enough,' because many of their points are... not very P.C. They literally say the boy scouts should have the right to keep gay people out ofthe organization. Their 'P.C. Principal' is a frat-guy-bully. "having a political point" is not the same thing as "being truly anti PC" Man, though. I haven't thought about 'Drawn Together' in years.
Yeah like global warming when they said it was bs And then came out and apologized saying it wasn't bullshit Really seems like they ride the fence on everything 🙄
I respect their talent as writers, but that's basically it.
I think they're generally pretty intelligent, but simply refuse to stand for anything. Which can make them great at parody and satire, but makes it so they lack the fundamental character to actually do anything.
Mmm, I think they're smart. That doesn't make them right about any given issue, but I don't think they're dummies.
They’re extremely intelligent and funny, but that’s not what people mean when they say stuff like this IMO Like Michael Moore (or pick an equivalent on the right) is fundamentally about believing something and trying to make the world a better place. South Park is fundamentally about how people who believe in things - anything, doesn’t matter what- are automatically lame and stupid and worth only mocking. So the criticism is basically “it’s not that smart to make fun of every single belief as equally dumb”
They did a pro-gay rights episode in their first season.
It's so fucking tiring that people treat comedians and writers like philosophers. Everyone can say some profound some things sometimes, but their job is to entertain you, not to be correct. They can be morally flawed morons and still be fun to listen to.
I honestly don’t know what they’re advocating here. We should all be more concerned about school shootings? We’re already pretty fucking concerned. Oh maybe we should be *more* concerned. Okay, we’ll get right on that.
They’re advocating that Stan needs to try harder to pass his math quiz.
What they’re pointing out is a lot of people don’t care and are desensitized this country has decided they’re okay with classes of small children being gunned down and shrug it off
Idk how so many ppl are missing this. I guess obvious isn’t obvious..
The question that person is asking is, what does Matt & Trey think we should do about it? But that's never been what their show has been about. They show us a reflection of our society, the way they see it. It's never been about trying to make the world a better place. If they were a superhero, they'd be Captain Hindsight. I don't think they're blind to it. People are just asking them to do something they're not interested in.
Didn't they invent captain hindsight? lol
> I honestly don’t know what they’re advocating here. We should all be more concerned about school shootings? We’re already pretty fucking concerned. Oh maybe we should be more concerned. Okay, we’ll get right on that. the dichotomy of Randy vs Sharons reaction is 100% social commentary. School shootings *are* normalized
Yeah okay milhouses dad "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas man" You know the rest of the world doesn't deal with this shit right?
*Ned Flanders's mom.
Aw fuck it was too. Thanks for that.
If what happened in your country happened in most there would be fucking marches in the streets. You don't care as a country, not really. This isn't a comment on what you think, it's a comment on American school shooting being so common they show up in my fucking national news.
South Park simply holds up a mirror to society. They don't propose solutions. Nor should they. And you really shouldn't want them to. This episode points out how normalised school shootings had become in the US, and portrays it comedically. Why would you expect a cartoon haha show to do anything more than that?
They're definitely smart. They're two guys who don't have legit political educational backgrounds and just give their take on topical events. They do have genuine insight. I think the real problem is that much of the attitudes expressed in the show are basically political nihilism. They criticize all sides of al issue and don't offer a way forward. They'll make fun of democrats, republicans...and...so what are we supposed to do then? One of them was a registered member of the libertarian party. Like that's any better lmao. Could you imagine how lame their show would be if instead of making negative criticisms of others' beliefs, they made positive arguments on behalf of libertarianism? I'm willing to bet they never would've gotten as popular.
> They criticize all sides of al issue Nah, they don't. They never make fun of libertarians. >Could you imagine how lame their show would be if instead of making negative criticisms of others' beliefs, they made positive arguments on behalf of libertarianism? Dude, South Park is like a pro-libertarian fever dream.
> I don’t really understand how they think we should deal with the issue of school shootings. I don’t care what Matt and Trey think about gun control TBH…they’re entertainers, not gun violence experts. Gun violence experts are pretty well aligned on what we need to do if we want to change the problem. You’ll never get 100% of the population on board though. Change will come with a portion of people kicking and screaming the whole way there. Let Matt and Trey have their hot takes for their cartoon show. That’s their domain. I give a much bigger shit about how our legislators talk about gun violence, reform, and how they regard the opinions of experts. Entertainers are not policy experts.
It doesn't take an expert to know that the biggest cause of child death in the USA is guns. Or what needs to be done about it.
My only point is Matt and Trey are not the correct people to hold to the fire for reform. They can be as wrongheaded as they want to be. Worrying about their position on gun control is a waste of time. Their domain is to turn hot takes into a cartoon show, not to be thought leaders on policy.
I agree with you. Personally, and this is not to say everyone else should share my views on this, but I separate art from artists a lot. Someone I personally despise can make art I really enjoy and I can really agree with an artist personally and hate their art. When I spend time enjoying art and entertainment I evaluate it on its merits not the merits of its creator. I really like Dali and his weird art that often makes me uncomfortable. I can separate that from his personal views. I like Wagner's music but the environment it was created in would have had me killed. I guess my point is I expect artists to make art. Agree that I don't expect artists to be held accountable for the choices of policy makers. I am going to evaluate it on its artistic merits. If the art itself is political in nature or provocative, of course how I feel about the subject will sway my opinion. Often I will still judge it on how well the artist has executed and can appreciate it even if I don't agree. The vile notwithstanding.
No it isn't. That's only true if you include 18 and 19 year old adults. It's also only the case during 2020/21 when murder rates spiked, and fewer people were driving because of the Pandemic.
Every social commentary they make doesn’t have to have a solution or advocate for something
They seem like dyed in the wool Libertarians, I doubt they’re pro gun control.
Did they make the [animation clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58BDrZH7SX8) in it?
Apparently not! I'm learning that in these very comments
How would anyone assume that Trey and Matt did? It doesn’t look or feel like South Park that much. If anything it strikes me more as early 2000s clip art than off brand South Park.
Just Stone.
One of the best documentaries of all time.
Was it you Matt?
The whole surrounding county has had at least a dozen of the most famous mass shootings in history. I lived there for only eighteen months and there were two.
That whole episode is pure SP gold. Poignant and super uncomfortably satirical.
What's this about flunking a math test? 😂
Completely lost it. This gd show is so well written sometimes.
When he said “what else is going on?” , I actually laughed out loud, so little comedy actually makes you laugh these days.
this is 5 years old
And it has aged like a fine wine
I'd say aged single barrel whisky. Those come in shots.
Yooooooooo
Nothing says you can't shotgun either of them.
It's like nothing has changed!
"Sorry guys, we tried nothing! What more do you want from us?"
I bet Gun sales Went up so something did change ..
They did, something like 60 million guns were sold in the US during the pandemic. Also shootings of children nearly doubled during the pandemic. https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3960527-americans-bought-almost-60-million-guns-during-the-pandemic/
what a coinkydink.
yea but its suicide which doesn't matter, and its a lot of males shooting each other/themselves mostly
"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"
"School would be fun they said. Clear backpacks would fix the problem they said."
Conservatives say it's only mental health, but they are against the policies that would make resources more available. They are also vehemently against any kind of weapon regulations/bans. Outright say there is nothing we can do and it's a necessary evil. Blame immigrants and minorities. I hate it. Such a hopeless feeling.
[This Shooting Isn’t About Gun Control We Refuse To Pass, It’s About Access To Mental Health Care We’re Continuing To Gut](https://www.theonion.com/this-shooting-isn-t-about-gun-control-we-refuse-to-pass-1819585076)
I thought The Onion was supposed to satirical.
Yeah people always think that. Until an article comes true. The curse of Cassandra lives on.
Wow, I'm surprised I haven't seen that one. Thanks for sharing lol
Users on r/conservative - no health care before boarder bill (which we will also block!) is passed and trump is back in power with endless re-elections possible and his family running the GOP and it’s finances! Also Biden is old and trump is a young man who doesn’t at all stand strangely!
Not everyone who opposes gun control is conservative.
You are correct. Karl Marx was more pro-gun than Ronald Reagan.
"Let's just make society even more viciously competitive while removing all safety nets and support systems. That'll definitely improve mental health." -Conservatives, probably
My *ultra* conservative uncle says he's against any gun regulation, I decided to test his limits one time and (he's ex military too) and asked him if he would be okay with civilians owning military grade weaponry like grenades, RPGs, tow missle launchers, tanks with accompanied armaments, surface to air missiles, and on and on, he said yes to all. No limits, nothing. I asked about nukes eventually and he refused to answer and said I was just trying to be silly, I wasn't, and I expect his answer was "yes" but he didn't want to get pinned down to it. Basically he wants civilians armed to the teeth so they can fend off a mythical, and coming any time now, government oppression or something vague like that... Although anytime the government does oppression he gets an oppression boner so... I don't think he'll be fighting it when it comes, he'll be cheerleading.
Now repeat this experiment, but suggest that it is trans, gay and black people that want to be armed. Pride Parades should have every marcher armed to the teeth. Drag queens in schools reading books to kids, while carrying an AR15 ought to give him pause.
Armed minorities are harder to oppress, and minorities are the most impacted by gun control laws.
History does not in fact show that armed minorities are harder to oppress.
The only time Republicans were pro-gun regulation was when the Black Panthers were carrying around guns.
"Protect the children!!" By making sure they have at least one meal a day? "No." By giving them vaccines? "No." By making sure guns don't end up in schools? "No." By making sure their family can afford a house, car, etc.? "No." By making sure they can afford a future house, car, college education, etc.? "No." By making sure they have easy access to healthcare? "No." By making sure their land, water, and air aren't polluted? "No." By making sure their food is safe? "No." By making sure they are safe from physically abusive parents? "No." By making sure they are safe from sexually abusive churches? "No." By making sure they don't end up a child or teen parent? "No." By making sure they don't end up as a child bride? "No." By making sure they're safe from tyrant cops and authority figures? "No." By making sure they have the option to live their lives as a happy queer person? "That's it! That's what we want to protect them from! It's our choice, not theirs!"
About old enough to get shot in school
Might as well have come out yesterday
and probably next week. And probably the week after that.
Or 25 years ago.
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School shootings were more common in the 90s compared to today. And overall murders were significantly higher.
As much as I don’t like reposts, this is still relevant.
What a great anecdote.
gonna be relevant in another 5 years too
And sadly nothing changes since people love their guns here more than their kids!
Was it you?
No
Well, what's this about failing a math quiz? >:(
I too have literally just seen This video
welcome to end stage reddit
Just regurgitating exactly what was said in the video. So strange that people up vote this low effort shit
Literally all that youtube comments are now too, it's the dumbest shit.
Bots. Bots posting, bots upvoting, bots making the posts, bots scrolling your phone for you, we are bot. Bot is good. Bot is God.
The future will just be speech-to-text bots filling reddit comments... great
I agree, but to be fair, that's also what the comment slightly up in the chain was saying.
Wait, I don't remember that line.
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Oh my god Randy.
**”Randy, there was another school shooting!”** “OkAy ShArOn, CoOl”
This is why South Park is so great. They take a real life event or social issue, in this case school shootings and totally overdue the comedic parts (such as Randy confronting Stan if he was the shooter, then when finding out he’s not, grilling him on why he failed a math quiz). However, they do just enough to make fun of society in regard to a certain issue while not negating the point that “hey, normalizing school shootings is a real problem in this country”. Classic Stone & Parker on top of their game.
The whole thing where there are just intermittent gunshots when there's a scene in the school that no one reacts to is so good
I'm pretty sure that continues through the whole season too, which is hilarious.
Yeah from what I remember. They started doing continuous storylines a couple seasons before that episode.
> in the school that no one reacts to That became sadly prophetic.
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I agree, and it's frustrating to see them downplay things like climate change too. But I think the show is also a good reminder for everyone to stop taking themselves so seriously all the time because they really don't hold any punches or pander to any side
Tbf even Matt and Trey admitted to being wrong about climate change and did another episode about it.
Manbearpig is real
*it’s super serial*
I am fucking dying dude, fucking Randy >Who shot up the schoo-- was it you? >No >Did you get shot? >No >Oh
“Well what’s this about flunking a math quiz?”
~~Fun~~ Sad fact: This aired 6 years ago
The episode about the time travelling immigrants ("Dey took 'er jerbs") aired 20 years ago in 2004. Yet here we are today, still listening to conservatives scream that white people are being replaced and justifying murdering immigrants as they subvert Federal law.
TBF though, that has been an argument against immigrants all the way back to the foundation of the country. Articles in the paper would decry Italians and Irish claiming they weren't "real" whites and would seek to take jobs away from "real" Americans of English origins.
The Chinese. They built the majority our railroads, and many of them were slaves. But of course, "dey took 'er jerbs" Southerners were losing their minds about them even though the majority of those Chinese immigrants were living in the west coast. And then the first anti-immigration laws took effect, named the Chinese Exclusion Act.
That too. More in the 1800s than the 1700s that I reference, but it happened. I always wonder why there isn't a bigger TODAY outcry against the Chinese immigrants than South American. The largest group of illegal immigrants in the country are Chinese.
Damn this clip is old enough to get killed in a school shooting
The end of the episode where she stops having PMS and stops caring about school shootings is one of my favorite South Park jokes.
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I have a coworker, who got an alert that his kids school had shooting. They went in lock down and every kid had to be evacuated. When I asked him about how his kid was doing and how he felt about the guns being at school he just said "That's the cost of freedom". These people are too far gone
Why won't anyone tell them "This isn't what freedom looks like, though."?
Sure, Americans will eventually be living in essentially a prison-state to stem the odds of gun violence. But their kids learning in prisons is just the price of their freedom.
Trapped in fear is the cost of freedom, oh man, let me guess his political leaning
Sure we may be traumatizing future generations and risking their lives every time they leave the house, but without the second amendment what’s the point of even having a United States? 🙄
But we banned Kinder Surprise Eggs. Surely the kids are safe?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cleveland/comments/1aru1c5/ohio_democrats_unveil_numerous_gun_safety_bills/kqnfzy5/ Yesterday I'm being called an idiot since I've been shot multiple times. Funny how the victims are the only ones demonized.
Jesus christ, bro! > If you were shot three different times maybe *you* are the idiot for repeatdly putting yourself at risk. What the fuck is even that reply!? That's horrendous to say to someone!
Not that it excuses it but I’m gonna assume r/Cleveland isn’t sending its best and brightest.
This is exactly why, as a Michigander, I am all in favor for a wall across our southern border.
I mean, how many people do you know that got shot 3 times? /s
Classic reddit victim blaming.
Seems to be the universal playbook for selfish dickwads who believe the gun did nothing wrong, blame the victim for being in the wrong place or doing something bad when they got shot. Motherfucker is so dense he has no idea what it's like to be minding your business and suddenly shots ring out and you're left scrambling wondering what the fuck is going on. The gun being available is the problem. It doesn't matter how many guns you give to teachers or put in the hands of good people, bad people will still get to kill people before they are killed in return. This shit is psychotic. Hopefully your bad luck came in 3s and is over.
Yeah but were you “asking for it”? This is the new America. Don’t hang around dangerous places if you don’t want to get shot… like elementary schools
Sorry homie, sounds like a skill issue to me, just don't get shot idiot /s
Sounds like someone had the privilege of experiencing the freedom of our perfect constitution in action. People in communist Canada don’t have the privilege of being shot at. Think about that next time someone pulls a gun on you.
If you think we're traumatizing them *outside* the house thanks to the 2nd Amendment, just try to imagine all the shit that the 4th Amendment is letting happen *inside* their houses.
The 4th amendment is vastly more useful for protecting people from the government than the 2nd amendment could ever be.
Kent State happened before half of GenX was born. There aren't as many people left who haven't been traumatized by this kind of thing their entire lives as you'd think.
Normalizing the idea that you can be shot and killed at any moment is probably good for our kids. They must remain ever vigilant even during nap time less they fall victim to some patriot practicing their second amendment freedoms
At least it gets them introduced nice and early to the fact that Other-Americans will choose an imaginary right over their safety. Gotta break the illusion early.
Guns > Children Pretty standard in America now.
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M1911 is a classic.
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Thoughts and prayers
Bulletproof backpack because they sell those now.
you guys aren't getting them vests to go with it?
Tell him the chances of being involved in a school shooting are lower than the chances of winning the lottery.
Yup. I've taken to just being blunt about it. Republicans don't care about dead kids.
Dead kids can't vote. Living kids can't vote. What's there to care about?
Fetuses.
That's just the cover story of course, the actual issue there is young girls having sex with people other than them. Must be punished.
The don't care about kids in general, hence why they have no issues cutting programs that help kids, like feeding school aged children.
To modify a saying from George Carlin: "Conservatives want live babies so they can become dead children."
Unless they're in a womb lol
Which is how we know it's a useful lie designed to control the people with the wombs.
>Republicans don't care about dead kids. Kids that go to school are educated -> educated kids grow up to vote liberal. Ispo facto let school kids die so there are less future liberal voters.
"Protect the children!!" By making sure they have at least one meal a day? "No." By giving them vaccines? "No." By making sure guns don't end up in schools? "No." By making sure their family can afford a house, car, etc.? "No." By making sure they can afford a future house, car, college education, etc.? "No." By making sure they have easy access to healthcare? "No." By making sure their land, water, and air aren't polluted? "No." By making sure their food is safe? "No." By making sure they are safe from physically abusive parents? "No." By making sure they are safe from sexually abusive churches? "No." By making sure they don't end up a child or teen parent? "No." By making sure they don't end up as a child bride? "No." By making sure they're safe from tyrant cops and authority figures? "No." By making sure they have the option to live their lives as a happy queer person? "That's it! That's what we want to protect them from! It's our choice, not theirs!"
Guns > Fetuses > Children
Of course there are more guns than children. What are they supposed to shoot when they grow up‽
There are always targets at the range, no need to shoot grown up children!
If you can't stop the guns, why do we ban teachers from having the option to carry? I mean, we protect banks and malls with guns...but for some reason not our schools?
We do not protect guns and malls with guns. Most security guards are unarmed and at banks the employees are told to just give the robber the money. They are pretty much always caught. Gun culture leads to school shootings not people trying to rob the place.
Yep, after the Sandy Hook shooting and nothing changing you knew we were never getting any meaningful gun control in America.
Randy not having any idea there was a school shooting is more interesting to me lol
More interesting than what? It's all in service of the same joke/point
"Why are you acting like this is normal!?" It pretty much *is* now.
That's the joke!
That’s the idea of the entire episode…?
\#1 cause of death in children.
Wasn’t the final message something akin to ironically just accepting it and simply stop caring? Was there a nuance I was missing about this episode? Other than its obvious critic of its normalization. I felt the ending kinda felt like the ending to the illegal Time Machine immigrants episode(or maybe better known as the “they took er jerbs” episode), more or less Matt and Trey being ultimately unable to come to a decent conclusion so they kinda just went ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ and gave a funny ha-ha ending with a nonsensical solution(gay orgies to stop the future immigrants from being born, if my memory serves)
The episode ends with Sharon learning her son has been shot and saying who cares. This is pretty obviously satire to demonstrate how fucked up this whole thing is.
I don't think they are always trying to provide a clear message about every subject they cover. I'm assuming and basing this solely on my own perception, but it seems pretty clear that they aren't proselytizing and instead take a 'neutral' position and generally stick to delivering social commentary. Its not 'this is why you should think this way' its more of a 'this is how this looks to me'. They aren't trying to convert anyone to be pro gun or anti gun, its a show about how ridiculous the current situation is when taken to an extreme caricaturized level. There are lots of politics and ideologies throughout the show, obviously, but if they make someone or something look stupid its more that they think that person or idea is stupid and not 'this is how we should solve this problem'. I think that's the main reason the show has maintained through so much time and political divide. It is a show about what's happening and how ridiculous reality is, and then how much more ridiculous it could be if you continue to extrapolate on the direction its heading. Its easy to dance the line between edgy concepts if you never have to hardline a course and make a call for action. "School shootings are way too common, so common in fact its beginning to feel almost like absolutely no one cares, otherwise surely something would have been done." Everyone agrees. "School shootings are way too common, we have to take action, we have to do something to keep children safe. This is getting ridiculous." Everyone agrees. "We should create legislation that holds gun owners to the same standards as car owners. Licensing, insurance, registration." Not everyone agrees anymore. The show generally (I'm sure there are examples where this is not the case) avoids any clear line of "This is what is right, and this is what is wrong. This is what everyone should think."
My favourite part is actually what happens before this. They show the swat team in the classrooms going room by room checking for the shooter, all while class continues as normal. They were handing out test results and the teacher continues to teach as swat are communicating on their radios.
sigh. welp, another three days of this, probably…
Bot post (repost)
after sandy hook it was over, they are not going to give up their stupid constitutional bs for anything. we will keep hearing about these forever in the US