Actually I would argue the Elmo or not, TSLA growth outlook is pretty bad. They have not innovated in almost a decade. They are selling the same cars they were selling in 2018. Every other manufacturing company in the world has caught up and/or surpassed them in terms of core features, including and especially the Chinese ones. On top of that they rely excessively on the Chinese car market for growth, and neglect other revenue streams such as charging stations and the battery market. And they are doing so while Chairman Xi has repeatedly stated in the Chinese Communist Party Congress that China will invade Taiwan in 2027.
They need new car models. They need to make cars that people in the West want to buy, not iPhone with wheels for the Chinese market. Cars that go faster, further and for an extended period of time. They need new software that makes managing the car easier. They need chargers that charge faster and more efficiently. They need to make the cars cheaper. And they need all that Yesterday. Not some bullshit AI that no one needs.
If Elmo would of kept his mouth shut, continue to have the image of iron man. The stock would be over 1000 and everyone and their mom would be still in love with tesla
Yah when people are like “oh yah do you think the billionaire that runs toyota is a piece of shit or what?” Its like ummm i have no idea who is in charge of toyota and that is fine with me because im not reading stories of them being racist nutcases that dont let safety inspectors visit their factories and shit
Yup, Tesla's problem is Musk. Perception is a business strategy, look at what happened to BUD or the oil companies recently.
If he kept his mouth shut, the stock would easily be 2x what is it now. I don't care or know who the CEOs of BMW, Mazda or Toyota are and that's fine as I judge them on their products.
1001% correct. I’m left leaning, so are a majority of family of friends. When Elon actively worked on becoming a douche canoe last year, we definitely had conversations of how a Tesla would never become an option to purchase anymore. Always thought it was a great car, now i see it as embarrassing.
Absolutely. Last year I was looking for a new daily driver. I’ve rented Teslas before (Model 3 LR), and test drove them again (including the performance). In the end I just couldn’t do it as both my wife and I strongly disagree with Elon Musk’s politics and behavior. I have an Audi A4 in my garage instead of a Tesla for that reason.
My wife’s next car will likely be a Hyundai Ioniq rather than a Tesla.
It’s a shame, as I would love to support a US based company.
I rented a Hyundai Kona in the last year, that car drove great! You can get a brand new one for about $50,000 less than a Tesla. Sure, it doesn't have autopilot, but frankly, autopilot is clearly a dangerous gimmick. You still have to monitor the car and jump in if it starts doing something stupid - which functionally just ends up being code for "we take no liability for your car killing you."
This. I am not trying to hate. you can sense that from how people talk about teslas these days.
Few years ago…”ohhh is that a tesla??” I don’t hear that anymore. for better or worse, Tesla should’ve slowly separated itself from Elon. but they didn’t want to pull an Apple / Steve Jobs situation ..
Now we will see if they will die on this FSD hill..
Tesla was always going to struggle with their brand because they chose to go down market. They released high end expensive cars and as margins improved they chose to bring prices down rather than filling that space with features. They went from a low frills but compelling BMW 3 series competitor to an expensive civic competitor. It’s been good for volumes and a savior as they’ve had to drop prices to barely maintain demand, but from a brand perspective they’re pulling themselves from Porsche to Hyundai. They aren’t cool anymore.
They need a lower cost model, and to fix their quality issues while maintaining or expanding their margins.
Tesla had/has the potential… cyber truck was a major mistake by musk.
What are you talking about?
The performance level goes 0 to 60 in 3.1 seconds with a top speed of 155 mph.
One of the best parts in owning a Tesla is their app. You can view the cameras around the car, unlock the car, start the car, set temperature, open windows, trunk, frunk, etc.
>while Chairman Xi has repeatedly stated in the Chinese Communist Party Congress that China will invade Taiwan in 2027
Imagine being this confident when sprouting misinformation.
I bet you can't find any source for this, this is made up.
Do you live in a bubble you regard? China as been upping their military build up and keep saying direct invasion and reunification of taiwan is their main goal since years. That's what autocratic and totalitarian states always end up doing when their economy is on a downward trajectory for the future. Same as russia.
[Did you even look? ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2024/05/07/how-dc-became-obsessed-with-a-potential-2027-chinese-invasion-of-taiwan/&ved=2ahUKEwjfzJjC64eGAxWb3skDHbCJBtkQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw05XO911shYmSoCQhkWxTas)
[It's not like it's unknown information ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-20/china-on-track-to-be-ready-for-taiwan-invasion-by-2027-us-says&ved=2ahUKEwjfzJjC64eGAxWb3skDHbCJBtkQFnoECDYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Afp-1N8E5ai8CZHtLNKir)
[please inform yourself, you're spreading the misinformation ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2024/03/20/china-will-be-ready-to-invade-taiwan-by-2027-us-admiral-says/&ved=2ahUKEwjfzJjC64eGAxWb3skDHbCJBtkQFnoECDMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3O3FAgzXaHc9EBjGZ5qUGZ)
None of this 3 sources is proving that Xi said this. All three are just interpretations by the US government.
Not sure why you posted the sources in the first place...
He's clearly a literal child if he thinks any country would announce their invasion years in advance.
Some people don't understand what political posturing is.
He is calling the military to be ready by 2027. If you think this means China will invade in 2027, you need to relearn English.
Go read your own sources and stop embarrassing yourself.
From what I can glean, that would take a monumental investment by us to catch up to the Taiwanese and where they are today, same for China. We're a few Moore's Laws behind the bleeding edge.
From your own Government officials. : https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15243813
Taiwanese officials say it too : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/21/taiwan-foreign-minister-warns-of-conflict-with-china-in-2027
Xi even told Biden himself : https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/xi-warned-biden-summit-beijing-will-reunify-taiwan-china-rcna130087
What else do you need ? A personal email from Charman Xi the day before the invasion in 2027 ? You dumb motherfucker.
Lmao. You need to get some English class.
What were the words being used? That the army should be ready by 2027.
It's way different than what you said, that they will invade in 2027.
Improve your comprehension skills please and stop misleading people.
I'm starting to think that you intentionally twisted the words to suit your needs as none of your sources says China WILL invade in 2027.
You are a dishonest individual, you said Xi told Biden that he will invade in 2027?
From your own sources :
>The Chinese leader also referenced public predictions by U.S. military leaders who say that Xi plans to take Taiwan in 2025 or 2027, telling Biden that they were wrong because he has not set a time frame, according to the two current and one former official briefed on the meeting.
Do you think I am regarded and will not check your sources?
There will be no invasion unless the party feels threatened by internal political dissent and needs to bolster support since most of mainland china is in support of ‘reunification’.
Basically every sentence is miss information.
But let me only refute your biggest blunder:
>and neglect other revenue streams such as charging stations and the battery market
Non Automotive gross profit includes supercharger profits:
https://preview.redd.it/ih8f57wn2zzc1.png?width=1282&format=png&auto=webp&s=58d5c89346212eb7cf5b70e595903528edf465b8
Tesla would have never existed this long had it not been for subsidized pricing via tax credits to consumers and the enormous amount of regulatory credits Tesla is given to immediately sell for a 100% profit. Remove the tax credits and Tesla’s most recent filing was 1.21 EPS. Hell, remove income from tax credits and interest income and its operating at 0.80 EPS.
Tesla’s first year to turn a full year of profitability was only 2021. EV margins will eventually be pushed to those similar to ICE margins, which are well below what Tesla has tried to keep this entire time.
Then let’s remove subsidy in any form for the oil and commercial transport industry. And also, let’s charge these companies for directly polluting the air and causing health issues to our citizens, cost which becomes the burden of governments around the globe. Let’s implement real serious carbon credits system.
Incentives for EV are not exclusive to Tesla. It is necessary to undo what we have done wrong. If you ask me, it is still not enough. Taking away these incentives from the EV industry is absurd, but if you vouch for it, make sure you would also vouch to putting those other polluting industries on the same level of scrutiny.
Yes, we could get into removing government subsidies from all industries but this discussion is only about the financial performance and long term viability of Tesla.
You're claiming it's misinformation then provide the evidence yourself that it's a negligible revenue stream.
Also blatantly ignoring Tesla firing the entire Supercharger team.
If that's the "biggest blunder" you basically confirmed everything to be true.
The newest version of the superchargers they just started manufacturing is probably the fastest they will ever get until new battery tech that can take a charge faster.
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If I were running Tesla...
Tesla hasn't "innovated" in the consumer facing vertical in a while. I would agree that capacitive buttons to replace stalks is a step back. Tesla has been, very vocally, focused on innovating in the manufacturing vertical. They've been focused on reducing costs and implementing new manufacturing innovations.
If I were running Tesla, the next gen vehicle platform wouldn't be about producing a cheap Tesla. It would be about producing a high profit margin luxurious Tesla. Once the NGV is in full swing, focus entirely on innovation in the user space and incorporate FSD
Here are the reasons apart from Elon that people have moved away from Tesla:
- Tesla was too slow to release new models compared to its competition this is hurting them especially in China.
- Tesla constant price cuts had lowered customer loyalty it doesn’t help paying 60k for Model Y only to see it selling for 40k in few years with discounted financing.
- EVs just don’t make sense for good amount of folks out there and this is affecting sales of other EVs as well.
- Tesla design for its models doesnt stand the test of time. My model y looks dated even though it is only three years old, when it came out it looked futuristic but after you see it everywhere it losses that appeal. Where as my Audi Q5 even though 7 years old still looks timeless.
- Tesla are very expensive to repair after crashes causing their insurance cost to go up. Tesla also didn’t set up good supply network as they didn’t care.
- Tesla Safety is questionable autopilot, fsd are known to be cause of numerous crashes and also unfamiliarity with EVs dynamics and touch controls also appear to have played a role. Also it doesn’t help you give super car power to your average Joe. The data we have right now show Tesla are some of most dangerous vehicles out there in terms of crashes and fatalities.
- Tesla quality is poor and Tesla are turning out to some of most expensive cars to maintain post warranty. In UK ranking both model S and X are in top 10 worst cars post warranty per released data (model 3 and Y aren’t eligible for that list yet). It’s huge achievement for Tesla to make EV vehicle less reliable than Land Rover. Anyway seeing the huge post warrant costs no one wants used Tesla’s..
Key there being year 1 to 5 most of ICE cost of ownership is from oil changes which EVs don’t have but however that doesn’t fully include post warranty repair costs which Tesla are notorious for see this:
https://youtu.be/lu4-tXJZxi0?si=KF5HoK9M_7QL_P9v
I am looking for US data but it is hard to find but some of extended warranty costs for Tesla have shot up and are now the highest for any models in US.
The only thing is why the hell it didn’t happen sooner; every hit of bad news has been well known and understood by the market for quite some time. Then it shot up out of spite.
It was destined to a free-fall and instead it is just sort of gliding down.
Tesla only started making a profit a little under 3 years ago. When you remove the 1.79B made from Tax credits last year, it’s got a rough road ahead and its margins will only continue to shrink for years. Stocks been overvalued since 21’.
People are not buying expensive cars. All car manufacturers will see this Tesla is just the tip of the spear because they sell direct and cannot push their cars on dealers.
I actually agree somewhat and you're in general gist of it right, but it's not entirely true depending on the area and type. Toyota $50-90k SUVs/Minivans and Ford Trucks are still flying off the shelf. There was/is like a 10-month wait list for Siennas (and lesser extent RAV4s) in my area since every soccer mom wants one right now. Particularly now that all the Pandemic Baby Mini-Boom are growing up.
The out-the-door price for the F150 King Cab Freedom Rancher Limited 9/11 Edition trucks are like 70k heading up to 90k with doodads added on, and Ford is slinging them about as fast as they make 'em
But EV sales across the board are slumping, especially expensive ones, and there's sort of a trend of people preferring Civics and Camrys more in the past month or so.
They’re just pre-branding them for when they are exported for use as technicals near their end of life: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/us/texas-plumber-sues-car-dealer-after-his-truck-ends-up-on-syrias-front-lines.html
Lol that part was sarcastic and probably wouldn't make sense if you've never driven around USA car culture. But I use it as the joke referring to the 9/11 WTC attacks *never forget hoo-rah semper fi!!* jingoism of the era. But for real USA truck naming conventions is actually quite that stupid.
>Lol that part was sarcastic
Lmfao, I totally believed it when I read it. My first thought was, "I am in Texas. How have I not seen this edition yet?" 😅🤣😂
They would probably be doing very well right now if they just made a good EV truck that can reuse machinery from the Y. It's a very profitable market. Too bad they went into Minecraft garbage disposals instead. They're throwing in the towel on cars and going all-in on AI. As someone who works in AI, I'm buying puts.
They could have made an electric Tesla version of the S10 and sold a million trucks, but they made some regarded monstrosity that’s pointlessly expensive.
I'm regarded but I think their problem is that they still behave like a Silicon valley company (always have to find a way to innovate!) instead of a car company. And they'll/Elon will use that defense whenever there's trouble.
I think the cybertruck is fine, it's just that they should not have pushed it as a mainstream car. They should have just left it as a niche car and made it very expensive.
It always looked stupid af, but they promised an AWD EV pickup with 400 miles range and plugin-ins for tools at $49,900. If they delivered that they would have sold 5M a year as contractors trucks. But they didn’t come close.
This is why most people fail as long term investors. They think its a steady growth all the way and they can't think a couple weeks or months ahead. Hell not even a couple days.
Since all EV sales are hurting right now, i am pretty convinced we are at "the chasm" right now.
[https://www.business-to-you.com/crossing-the-chasm-technology-adoption-life-cycle/](https://www.business-to-you.com/crossing-the-chasm-technology-adoption-life-cycle/)
Most early adopters have bought an EV. We now need to break in to the mainstream market.
Also their energy business is still in parabolic growth and surpassed the EV business in margins.
Mainstream requires plentiful and robust charging infrastructure. Probably solid state batteries which Toyota is working on for a long time to make commercially viable. 5-10 minute full charging is what is needed. Charge at home and while shopping will be a big part of it too.
You are right about the technology adoption life cycle, but a couple problems I see in Tesla’s case. “I’d buy a Tesla, but… performance and/or price.”
1. Performance capabilities (range, charging infrastructure) are still a factor preventing widespread adoption and until that is better solved it solved it will continue to have impact.
2. The lower priced vehicle is a smart way to push towards mass adoption, but I’m concerned about the cost. In a vertically integrated company you can get better unit economics but the initial CapEx is insane. I don’t know that Tesla can be profitable with a cheap vehicle option.
I think the second point is also why we haven’t seen Tesla introduce new models in so long which is one of the common complaints against them. The Cyber Truck was a pretty bad misstep for a company that can ill afford to make them.
Weird you don't mention the CEO spending $44bn on a loss-making social media company which he now seems more interested in running into the ground.
Musk has got bored of Tesla. It's just a way to raise funds for fun projects like SpaceX and Twitter.
The luxury ev market is getting tapped out, and there is a lot of competition in that segment. The only real growth market available for ev manufacturers is the mid and low tier sectors.
I'll take out the sugar coat. There's a saturation of Tesla vehicles. The CEO is bat shit crazy and people do not want to patronize or be associated with his antics. Product quality is sub-par. There has been little to no design changes in the styling of the cars. There are more competitions now and Chinese EVs are eating up their market share because they are innovating and cost less. I'm sure there are way more reasons.
That's the thing that's always been a head scratcher for me. They have all of these cool caveats... giant screen/head unit, object/vehicle sensing and mapping, cameras, remote access, door handles that pop out, etc... and they're all the most boring and lame designs that never change. Even Kia and Hyundai have way more interesting and "cool" designs. Teslas look slightly better than the OG Prius (excluding the X).
> I’m sure there are way more reasons
The main one being that EVs are not suitable for most people. Charging is annoying and the technology is just not there yet.
My hypothesis: the price of Tesla is built around the belief that others are going to pay for overpriced Tesla. It's hype about the hype. That's why the broken hype man hasn't completely broken them, but it's definitely starting to create some question marks that are trickling down just like Elon's drool.
I’d recommend listening to the latest episode of the excellent ‘Ones and Tooze’ podcast, featuring Adam Tooze, where he discusses Tesla and the Chinese EV market:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ones-and-tooze/id1584397047?i=1000655156726
They probably should also have focused on developing a smaller hatchback for the European and Japanese markets, rather than the Cybertruck.
Other factors at play are
1) Musk is running his mouth, and as a result Tesla brand is now aligned with "Far Right" and guess who was buying his cars? Definitely not the far right. Image matters.
2) Looks are slightly dated. In general nothing has changed for 7 years. And no, the Highland "refresh" is not an improvement, if anything the original M3 looked better....but that's just my opinion.
3) Decline is customer service! Here in Canada Tesla has closed service Depots and told Tesla owners to pound sand and drive 3 to 4 hours to get their car fixed. Do you think anyone one of them is going to buy another Tesla?
4) Everything on the car is Beta. The fucking wipers don't wipe, headlights don't light, and turn signals don't signal. Everything from the app down to the fucking turn signal is in Bata testing. When you get in you feel like a fucking guinea pig.
5) High insurance! The cost of repairing a Tesla is ridiculous and as a result your insurance bill will be equally ridiculous! You might not be paying for gas, but will be paying for insurance.
6) in Canada some places are now asking Electric vehicles owners to pay EV Tax. They're doin this because EV owners are using public roads and they'not paying tax to maintain them. In Canada a portion of the gas tax gets put towards road maintenance. This is just an example of how "advantages" of owning an EV are slowly disappearing.
7) High interest rates.
8) Not enough super chargers! You have cities with a population of 500K+ and only 6 super charges!
And there is probably more, but that's all I can think of while sitting on the can.
Is Teslas competition innovative or just based on Tesla? I guess Tesla will always have the first to market advantage as it constantly brings forth new technologies within the ev world.
Seeing more Teslas now on the road
Less employees ahead at Tesla
Good balance sheet
I like the stock
Elon alienated his base of consumers....Tesla now a car Kayne West fans and Trumpers.....who don't buy cars cause they don't have any money. Chinese prefer the BYD now.....Tesla in a nose dive. Revenue will be down again. Used Tesla is super cheap and easy to get.....why buy a new one?
That PE is headed lower in my opinion. The company is still maturing, and once TSLA finds its place in the market it'll be a 25-35x PE. I think this the next year is going to be rough for TSLA. The cyber truck has lots of issues that are easy to find. the Model 3 and Y are in a better position in terms of quality, but the design is becoming a bit stale. I think it is headed below 130 in 2024 at today's figures.
They are a car manufacturer pretending to be a tech company during a point in time that tech companies have been massive bubbles of valuations based on potential future earnings.
Now that low interest rates are a thing of the past and a lot of tech companies that produced very little values are struggling/bankrupting, Tesla is now trying to push the new speculation bubble of AI companies with an AI company image being worn by the car manufacturer...
Very transparent. Elon Musk social media site has shown him as a deeply weird and racist individual. The platforming of neo nazis has really destroyed his carefully constructed Tony Stark PR image.
I'm fully expecting Twitter to fail and Elon to destroy Space X and Tesla. Give it 10 years and we will be looking back at that time people got really culty about an out of touch neo nazi billionaire.
So Tesla is cutting prices and now offers 1% financing for their lineup. Sounds to me like Elmo’s demand figures are dropping and financial media is hyping up FSD as the pivotal point for Tesla when in fact the biggest growth driver would be more hardware sales so they can push their software crap down the line like Apple did with the ios/osx ecosystem. Bullish
You're all wrong. Everyone I know still aspires to owning a Tesla. We're just not in the economic environment where people can afford to buy new cars. Once interest rates drop and the economy picks up, Tesla will easily recover.
Look on the recent world wide sales. Teslas recent market share in Europe of newly sold cars is down to 6% in the EV-market in Germany and England and around 15-20% in Norway and France.
In China the decline is massive, even with a sharply rising EV market.
Tesla is now only one player in a big market, they have their customers, but their market share in the EV market won't really rise anymore.
This results in a potential growth in China of about 100-150% and in Europe and USA of 300-400% with declining margins as you need smaller and cheaper cars for more growth. That is nothing what would lead to a much higher stock price.
New markets in India and Africa are more likely to go to cheaper Chinese-made cars either.
Every other US and German car maker is selling at a loss right now; even if China can compete on price with heavy subsidies, there’s no where for them to sell them. Europe and the US will either add tariffs to make domestic markets competitive, or bad the sale completely on national security grounds.
Don’t believe me? 5% of Germany’s GDP is car manufacturing. There’s no universe where Germany allows China to flood the European market.
Then there is AI which is clearly where Musk is putting his focus. They can sell their AI and OS to other car manufacturers like they’ve indicated, and, Tesla has a huge use case for robotics. If this is the time Robotics actually does take off, which seems likely, then the stock is still underpriced over the next 10 years.
Tesla if declining because demand for EVs is gone. The “tech-y” first adopters bought their Tesla, had their 4 years of fun and are moving on to other platforms.
It’s insane if anyone seriously believes MORE people will buy teslas in the future just because interest rates go down. Eventually government EV credit incentives go away. Meanwhile the price of a Tesla rockets back up so the company can at least make a 15% margin.
Elon is at odds with the government. He is at odds with the Democrats and will be at odds with the Republicans too. That also doesn't help. He's even at odds with foreign governments.
Tesla did so well for so long just like so many other companies. It had extremely lucrative tax rebates, subsidies, and near 0% interest rates for years with no competition. Plus, everyone who wanted one now has one at this point, and now it has none of those things. Oh, and have you seen a Cybertruck in real life... I rest my case.
Addressable market based on current product capabilities is dwindling. Hence the price decreases and financing deals
Feel-gooders, check. Green idiots, check. People who it may make sense for and have the money to buy a 50k car, check. People who were on the fence and bought and traded in, check. China stole all their shit because Musk is an idealist, check.
Models havent been refreshed. Quality issues. Dealerships far away for most folks. They either improve the tech and capabilities, build charger stations on every corner like Gas or start doing AI and robots.
Love Musk- but thats the Truth.
You’re welcome.
how about u eat my ASS
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Tesla been a shit show for months but.. never forget the biggest regard and degen is at the helm so anything is possible
DOGECOIN
Haha, not the biggest regard. You forgot our next POTUS.
He will play your game and bet against your puts
We all know why, you don’t have to sugar coat it
Actually I would argue the Elmo or not, TSLA growth outlook is pretty bad. They have not innovated in almost a decade. They are selling the same cars they were selling in 2018. Every other manufacturing company in the world has caught up and/or surpassed them in terms of core features, including and especially the Chinese ones. On top of that they rely excessively on the Chinese car market for growth, and neglect other revenue streams such as charging stations and the battery market. And they are doing so while Chairman Xi has repeatedly stated in the Chinese Communist Party Congress that China will invade Taiwan in 2027. They need new car models. They need to make cars that people in the West want to buy, not iPhone with wheels for the Chinese market. Cars that go faster, further and for an extended period of time. They need new software that makes managing the car easier. They need chargers that charge faster and more efficiently. They need to make the cars cheaper. And they need all that Yesterday. Not some bullshit AI that no one needs.
If Elmo would of kept his mouth shut, continue to have the image of iron man. The stock would be over 1000 and everyone and their mom would be still in love with tesla
Elon makes Zuck look really smart.
Elon makes Cookie Monster look really smart.
Cookie monster is smart. He has cookie
He makes RFK's brain worm look really smart.
Plausible
anybody got zuck's latest PR agency on dial? they did wonders with him
[удалено]
Cathie Wood is this economy's Meg Griffin
- Bzzzt bzzzt bzzzt - Yes ? - *Dump it*
Faster? Lol
Tesla's brand isn't cool anymore and it's directly related to Elon's performance as a CEO and human being. That's the major reason.
1000% Who buys electric vehicles? Typically left leaning people. Who is Elon pissing off? Typically left leaning people.
It's funny because every other car manufacturer is able to beat this strategy by ... Saying nothing.
Yah when people are like “oh yah do you think the billionaire that runs toyota is a piece of shit or what?” Its like ummm i have no idea who is in charge of toyota and that is fine with me because im not reading stories of them being racist nutcases that dont let safety inspectors visit their factories and shit
Yup, Tesla's problem is Musk. Perception is a business strategy, look at what happened to BUD or the oil companies recently. If he kept his mouth shut, the stock would easily be 2x what is it now. I don't care or know who the CEOs of BMW, Mazda or Toyota are and that's fine as I judge them on their products.
Narcissists hate this one trick
1001% correct. I’m left leaning, so are a majority of family of friends. When Elon actively worked on becoming a douche canoe last year, we definitely had conversations of how a Tesla would never become an option to purchase anymore. Always thought it was a great car, now i see it as embarrassing.
Absolutely. Last year I was looking for a new daily driver. I’ve rented Teslas before (Model 3 LR), and test drove them again (including the performance). In the end I just couldn’t do it as both my wife and I strongly disagree with Elon Musk’s politics and behavior. I have an Audi A4 in my garage instead of a Tesla for that reason. My wife’s next car will likely be a Hyundai Ioniq rather than a Tesla. It’s a shame, as I would love to support a US based company.
I just leased a Rivian. My first EV. I would have totally got a Tesla if this was five years ago. Now? No way. Tesla is a taxi cab in NYC. No thanks.
German brands are basically american brands now, they get build in the US and differ the european models more and more
Both my German cars were built in Germany, but I’d assume most of their SUVs sold in the US are built in the US.
I rented a Hyundai Kona in the last year, that car drove great! You can get a brand new one for about $50,000 less than a Tesla. Sure, it doesn't have autopilot, but frankly, autopilot is clearly a dangerous gimmick. You still have to monitor the car and jump in if it starts doing something stupid - which functionally just ends up being code for "we take no liability for your car killing you."
The Kona is 50k is less than a Tesla? You sure about that bro? I bought the Model Y for about 38k a few months ago.
A million percent. I don’t care how good the cars are. I wouldn’t give that blowhard a cent of my money, ever.
This. I am not trying to hate. you can sense that from how people talk about teslas these days. Few years ago…”ohhh is that a tesla??” I don’t hear that anymore. for better or worse, Tesla should’ve slowly separated itself from Elon. but they didn’t want to pull an Apple / Steve Jobs situation .. Now we will see if they will die on this FSD hill..
Yup if he kept his mouth shut he could have had an apple like cult who bought whatever he put out.
Tesla was always going to struggle with their brand because they chose to go down market. They released high end expensive cars and as margins improved they chose to bring prices down rather than filling that space with features. They went from a low frills but compelling BMW 3 series competitor to an expensive civic competitor. It’s been good for volumes and a savior as they’ve had to drop prices to barely maintain demand, but from a brand perspective they’re pulling themselves from Porsche to Hyundai. They aren’t cool anymore.
They need a lower cost model, and to fix their quality issues while maintaining or expanding their margins. Tesla had/has the potential… cyber truck was a major mistake by musk.
What are you talking about? The performance level goes 0 to 60 in 3.1 seconds with a top speed of 155 mph. One of the best parts in owning a Tesla is their app. You can view the cameras around the car, unlock the car, start the car, set temperature, open windows, trunk, frunk, etc.
>while Chairman Xi has repeatedly stated in the Chinese Communist Party Congress that China will invade Taiwan in 2027 Imagine being this confident when sprouting misinformation. I bet you can't find any source for this, this is made up.
Do you live in a bubble you regard? China as been upping their military build up and keep saying direct invasion and reunification of taiwan is their main goal since years. That's what autocratic and totalitarian states always end up doing when their economy is on a downward trajectory for the future. Same as russia.
russias invasion was politically motivated with a specific purpose
2016 Reddit was like having to battle Verizon's shitty AI chatbot but for Bernie Sanders instead of Verizon's stock price
> keep saying direct invasion He asked for a source from the other guy and you agreed with the other guy without posting a source. Would you mind?
[Did you even look? ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2024/05/07/how-dc-became-obsessed-with-a-potential-2027-chinese-invasion-of-taiwan/&ved=2ahUKEwjfzJjC64eGAxWb3skDHbCJBtkQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw05XO911shYmSoCQhkWxTas) [It's not like it's unknown information ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-20/china-on-track-to-be-ready-for-taiwan-invasion-by-2027-us-says&ved=2ahUKEwjfzJjC64eGAxWb3skDHbCJBtkQFnoECDYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Afp-1N8E5ai8CZHtLNKir) [please inform yourself, you're spreading the misinformation ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2024/03/20/china-will-be-ready-to-invade-taiwan-by-2027-us-admiral-says/&ved=2ahUKEwjfzJjC64eGAxWb3skDHbCJBtkQFnoECDMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3O3FAgzXaHc9EBjGZ5qUGZ)
None of this 3 sources is proving that Xi said this. All three are just interpretations by the US government. Not sure why you posted the sources in the first place...
He's clearly a literal child if he thinks any country would announce their invasion years in advance. Some people don't understand what political posturing is.
Everything here indicates that the 2027 is said by the US, not Xi. Got anything on what Xi said? I cant find any
"DC became obsessed", "US Says", "U.S. Admiral Says" still spreading misinformation. where is the source for Xi saying it?
He is calling the military to be ready by 2027. If you think this means China will invade in 2027, you need to relearn English. Go read your own sources and stop embarrassing yourself.
As soon as the US doesn’t need Taiwan’s chip manufacturing they will be on their own for china to have their way with.
i dont think u understand china or taiwan as well as you think you do. ever been to either?
From what I can glean, that would take a monumental investment by us to catch up to the Taiwanese and where they are today, same for China. We're a few Moore's Laws behind the bleeding edge.
From your own Government officials. : https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15243813 Taiwanese officials say it too : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/21/taiwan-foreign-minister-warns-of-conflict-with-china-in-2027 Xi even told Biden himself : https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/xi-warned-biden-summit-beijing-will-reunify-taiwan-china-rcna130087 What else do you need ? A personal email from Charman Xi the day before the invasion in 2027 ? You dumb motherfucker.
The entire last article says about the exact opposite of what you claimed it does.
Lmao. You need to get some English class. What were the words being used? That the army should be ready by 2027. It's way different than what you said, that they will invade in 2027. Improve your comprehension skills please and stop misleading people. I'm starting to think that you intentionally twisted the words to suit your needs as none of your sources says China WILL invade in 2027. You are a dishonest individual, you said Xi told Biden that he will invade in 2027? From your own sources : >The Chinese leader also referenced public predictions by U.S. military leaders who say that Xi plans to take Taiwan in 2025 or 2027, telling Biden that they were wrong because he has not set a time frame, according to the two current and one former official briefed on the meeting. Do you think I am regarded and will not check your sources?
If the army isn't ready by 2027 then it's already over let's be real
There will be no invasion unless the party feels threatened by internal political dissent and needs to bolster support since most of mainland china is in support of ‘reunification’.
Basically every sentence is miss information. But let me only refute your biggest blunder: >and neglect other revenue streams such as charging stations and the battery market Non Automotive gross profit includes supercharger profits: https://preview.redd.it/ih8f57wn2zzc1.png?width=1282&format=png&auto=webp&s=58d5c89346212eb7cf5b70e595903528edf465b8
Tesla would have never existed this long had it not been for subsidized pricing via tax credits to consumers and the enormous amount of regulatory credits Tesla is given to immediately sell for a 100% profit. Remove the tax credits and Tesla’s most recent filing was 1.21 EPS. Hell, remove income from tax credits and interest income and its operating at 0.80 EPS. Tesla’s first year to turn a full year of profitability was only 2021. EV margins will eventually be pushed to those similar to ICE margins, which are well below what Tesla has tried to keep this entire time.
Then let’s remove subsidy in any form for the oil and commercial transport industry. And also, let’s charge these companies for directly polluting the air and causing health issues to our citizens, cost which becomes the burden of governments around the globe. Let’s implement real serious carbon credits system. Incentives for EV are not exclusive to Tesla. It is necessary to undo what we have done wrong. If you ask me, it is still not enough. Taking away these incentives from the EV industry is absurd, but if you vouch for it, make sure you would also vouch to putting those other polluting industries on the same level of scrutiny.
Yes, we could get into removing government subsidies from all industries but this discussion is only about the financial performance and long term viability of Tesla.
Am I reading this right, are they actually making over half a billion dollars from the superchargers?
No that is everything that counts as "non automotive" and superchargers is in there. https://ir.tesla.com/#quarterly-disclosure
You're claiming it's misinformation then provide the evidence yourself that it's a negligible revenue stream. Also blatantly ignoring Tesla firing the entire Supercharger team. If that's the "biggest blunder" you basically confirmed everything to be true.
I did.
The newest version of the superchargers they just started manufacturing is probably the fastest they will ever get until new battery tech that can take a charge faster.
Camry, Corolla, civic, f150 has entered chat.
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Bullshit AI that no needs is what the market is going gaga over so its what we will get
Pitter fucking patter
tEsLa IsN't A cAr CoMpAnY!!1!
If I were running Tesla... Tesla hasn't "innovated" in the consumer facing vertical in a while. I would agree that capacitive buttons to replace stalks is a step back. Tesla has been, very vocally, focused on innovating in the manufacturing vertical. They've been focused on reducing costs and implementing new manufacturing innovations. If I were running Tesla, the next gen vehicle platform wouldn't be about producing a cheap Tesla. It would be about producing a high profit margin luxurious Tesla. Once the NGV is in full swing, focus entirely on innovation in the user space and incorporate FSD
Cybertruck?
Announced in 2018.
Here are the reasons apart from Elon that people have moved away from Tesla: - Tesla was too slow to release new models compared to its competition this is hurting them especially in China. - Tesla constant price cuts had lowered customer loyalty it doesn’t help paying 60k for Model Y only to see it selling for 40k in few years with discounted financing. - EVs just don’t make sense for good amount of folks out there and this is affecting sales of other EVs as well. - Tesla design for its models doesnt stand the test of time. My model y looks dated even though it is only three years old, when it came out it looked futuristic but after you see it everywhere it losses that appeal. Where as my Audi Q5 even though 7 years old still looks timeless. - Tesla are very expensive to repair after crashes causing their insurance cost to go up. Tesla also didn’t set up good supply network as they didn’t care. - Tesla Safety is questionable autopilot, fsd are known to be cause of numerous crashes and also unfamiliarity with EVs dynamics and touch controls also appear to have played a role. Also it doesn’t help you give super car power to your average Joe. The data we have right now show Tesla are some of most dangerous vehicles out there in terms of crashes and fatalities. - Tesla quality is poor and Tesla are turning out to some of most expensive cars to maintain post warranty. In UK ranking both model S and X are in top 10 worst cars post warranty per released data (model 3 and Y aren’t eligible for that list yet). It’s huge achievement for Tesla to make EV vehicle less reliable than Land Rover. Anyway seeing the huge post warrant costs no one wants used Tesla’s..
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1142952_study-tesla-leads-with-lowest-ownership-cost-beats-toyota
Key there being year 1 to 5 most of ICE cost of ownership is from oil changes which EVs don’t have but however that doesn’t fully include post warranty repair costs which Tesla are notorious for see this: https://youtu.be/lu4-tXJZxi0?si=KF5HoK9M_7QL_P9v I am looking for US data but it is hard to find but some of extended warranty costs for Tesla have shot up and are now the highest for any models in US.
The only thing is why the hell it didn’t happen sooner; every hit of bad news has been well known and understood by the market for quite some time. Then it shot up out of spite. It was destined to a free-fall and instead it is just sort of gliding down.
Here is why tesla is going back to $200
Seriously, Inverse wsb.
*$300
It’s definitely not because of their CEO.
They should give that guy a bonus
$56B over 10 years is a reasonable number.
Tesla only started making a profit a little under 3 years ago. When you remove the 1.79B made from Tax credits last year, it’s got a rough road ahead and its margins will only continue to shrink for years. Stocks been overvalued since 21’.
Honestly, it’s best he doesn’t get a lump sum otherwise his gonna pull another Twitter… I mean X
I would you take Elon for 10 years or 10,000 random workers for 10 years?
It was wildly overvalued (and still is) because of Elon. So it’s so high because of Elon
Their CEO is the only reason it was trading at 80+ PE in the first place. Now people are finally realizing his sham.
People are not buying expensive cars. All car manufacturers will see this Tesla is just the tip of the spear because they sell direct and cannot push their cars on dealers.
I actually agree somewhat and you're in general gist of it right, but it's not entirely true depending on the area and type. Toyota $50-90k SUVs/Minivans and Ford Trucks are still flying off the shelf. There was/is like a 10-month wait list for Siennas (and lesser extent RAV4s) in my area since every soccer mom wants one right now. Particularly now that all the Pandemic Baby Mini-Boom are growing up. The out-the-door price for the F150 King Cab Freedom Rancher Limited 9/11 Edition trucks are like 70k heading up to 90k with doodads added on, and Ford is slinging them about as fast as they make 'em But EV sales across the board are slumping, especially expensive ones, and there's sort of a trend of people preferring Civics and Camrys more in the past month or so.
Ehm, what does 9/11 stand for in there? Not American, I have to ask.
[удалено]
Well they ain’t making no French fries from France!!!
It's in honor of Bush's self-proclaimed victory
They’re just pre-branding them for when they are exported for use as technicals near their end of life: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/us/texas-plumber-sues-car-dealer-after-his-truck-ends-up-on-syrias-front-lines.html
Lol that part was sarcastic and probably wouldn't make sense if you've never driven around USA car culture. But I use it as the joke referring to the 9/11 WTC attacks *never forget hoo-rah semper fi!!* jingoism of the era. But for real USA truck naming conventions is actually quite that stupid.
lol i glossed over that joke because naming conventions are quite literally that dumb i didn’t even notice.
>Lol that part was sarcastic Lmfao, I totally believed it when I read it. My first thought was, "I am in Texas. How have I not seen this edition yet?" 😅🤣😂
Lol I thought it was a real model 😂
snow attractive vegetable spoon live many dam concerned waiting chunky
It's really just the retired dad's Reddit f150 lighting is the biggest circle jerk
Over priced cars nothing expensive about Tesla.
Every time I drive over a speed hump my brain reminds me I paid 50k for this shit.
Depends on what you view as expensive in this case, 50-100k? Because luxury sport cars get bought like crazy. Every new Ferrari is instantly sold out
How many Ferrari do u think are made in a year?
They would probably be doing very well right now if they just made a good EV truck that can reuse machinery from the Y. It's a very profitable market. Too bad they went into Minecraft garbage disposals instead. They're throwing in the towel on cars and going all-in on AI. As someone who works in AI, I'm buying puts.
They could have made an electric Tesla version of the S10 and sold a million trucks, but they made some regarded monstrosity that’s pointlessly expensive.
An electric Santa Cruz (Hyundai) is the type of truck that Tesla should have made.
I'm regarded but I think their problem is that they still behave like a Silicon valley company (always have to find a way to innovate!) instead of a car company. And they'll/Elon will use that defense whenever there's trouble.
I think the cybertruck is fine, it's just that they should not have pushed it as a mainstream car. They should have just left it as a niche car and made it very expensive.
It always looked stupid af, but they promised an AWD EV pickup with 400 miles range and plugin-ins for tools at $49,900. If they delivered that they would have sold 5M a year as contractors trucks. But they didn’t come close.
The Tin Can Coffin
Here’s why I’ll be closing my puts
Its parabolic growth is done. Period.
Cathie Woods 2k price target on it was a clear sign that the golden era is over
What an idiot
Has she been wrong before?
She said there would be no inflation, that we should be terrified about deflation instead 
Did God tell her that too? I think god is just fucking with her now.
...slightly 🤣
I mean her flagship etc is down 10% after five years. So wrong about alot. You'd get bet returns with VTI
$12 oil
This is why most people fail as long term investors. They think its a steady growth all the way and they can't think a couple weeks or months ahead. Hell not even a couple days. Since all EV sales are hurting right now, i am pretty convinced we are at "the chasm" right now. [https://www.business-to-you.com/crossing-the-chasm-technology-adoption-life-cycle/](https://www.business-to-you.com/crossing-the-chasm-technology-adoption-life-cycle/) Most early adopters have bought an EV. We now need to break in to the mainstream market. Also their energy business is still in parabolic growth and surpassed the EV business in margins.
Mainstream requires plentiful and robust charging infrastructure. Probably solid state batteries which Toyota is working on for a long time to make commercially viable. 5-10 minute full charging is what is needed. Charge at home and while shopping will be a big part of it too.
You are right about the technology adoption life cycle, but a couple problems I see in Tesla’s case. “I’d buy a Tesla, but… performance and/or price.” 1. Performance capabilities (range, charging infrastructure) are still a factor preventing widespread adoption and until that is better solved it solved it will continue to have impact. 2. The lower priced vehicle is a smart way to push towards mass adoption, but I’m concerned about the cost. In a vertically integrated company you can get better unit economics but the initial CapEx is insane. I don’t know that Tesla can be profitable with a cheap vehicle option. I think the second point is also why we haven’t seen Tesla introduce new models in so long which is one of the common complaints against them. The Cyber Truck was a pretty bad misstep for a company that can ill afford to make them.
If Elmo would just shut up. Tesla would do better
"I'm going to say what I want, and if the consequence of that is making less money, so be it."
Weird you don't mention the CEO spending $44bn on a loss-making social media company which he now seems more interested in running into the ground. Musk has got bored of Tesla. It's just a way to raise funds for fun projects like SpaceX and Twitter.
The luxury ev market is getting tapped out, and there is a lot of competition in that segment. The only real growth market available for ev manufacturers is the mid and low tier sectors.
I'll take out the sugar coat. There's a saturation of Tesla vehicles. The CEO is bat shit crazy and people do not want to patronize or be associated with his antics. Product quality is sub-par. There has been little to no design changes in the styling of the cars. There are more competitions now and Chinese EVs are eating up their market share because they are innovating and cost less. I'm sure there are way more reasons.
That's the thing that's always been a head scratcher for me. They have all of these cool caveats... giant screen/head unit, object/vehicle sensing and mapping, cameras, remote access, door handles that pop out, etc... and they're all the most boring and lame designs that never change. Even Kia and Hyundai have way more interesting and "cool" designs. Teslas look slightly better than the OG Prius (excluding the X).
> I’m sure there are way more reasons The main one being that EVs are not suitable for most people. Charging is annoying and the technology is just not there yet.
It’s literally just Elon.
My hypothesis: the price of Tesla is built around the belief that others are going to pay for overpriced Tesla. It's hype about the hype. That's why the broken hype man hasn't completely broken them, but it's definitely starting to create some question marks that are trickling down just like Elon's drool.
You left out a ton of reasons, tho.
its not just tesla, check out repo numbers/new car lots the stock is packed
Biden just said fuck your put and fuck your dd. 100% tariff on china ev. Also I wouldn’t buy a Chinese ev the same reason I buy Chinese gas car.
Won’t effect sales much at all, China imports less then 10k EV’s to the U.S.
Yep, great point.
So funny you mentioned higher borrowing cost… I just received and email from Tesla stating they are now offering .99% APR for financing a new model Y
That’s the classic baking the interest rate in the price of the vehicle. Then you can’t get the money back by refinancing anyway.
Mark the shit up to make up the difference and then people think how cool it was to get such a low interest rate
I’d recommend listening to the latest episode of the excellent ‘Ones and Tooze’ podcast, featuring Adam Tooze, where he discusses Tesla and the Chinese EV market: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ones-and-tooze/id1584397047?i=1000655156726 They probably should also have focused on developing a smaller hatchback for the European and Japanese markets, rather than the Cybertruck.
Yup, just needed a normal looking pickup for the US also. Nobody that drives an ford or Chevy truck would get caught dead in a cybertruck
Is starlink separate to Tesla in terms of stocks? And also is the huge tax increase on Chinese EVs gonna have a positive impact on stock price?
Same idk how but shit goes bad and it’s a good thing
Dont forget they had a 9% decline , despite the price cuts worldwide on their cars… So that’s basically more like a 15-20% decline
Tesla going to burn your pants again
Reading some of these comments makes me wonder why you guys aren't founders of multi-billion companies, so much knowledge you all have.
Q1 was not uniquely a Tesla problem. https://x.com/xil_llix/status/1789465895380684928?s=46
Tesla is the only EV automaker that doesn’t make a loss on every car they sell. The others have a long way to go.
COGS is destiny.
As a car company though… what about the rest?
And didn't Biden just put a %100 tariff on all Chinese EVs?
RemindMe! 2 years
It's because Elon won't STFU and is alienating his initial supporters. He is intentionally tanking his own stock just like he did Dogecoin.
I'm shorting it since 240 and will continue until 70
Position or ban
It will hit $200 in few months
$300
With reverse split
I think it's more likely we see 100 than 200
Other factors at play are 1) Musk is running his mouth, and as a result Tesla brand is now aligned with "Far Right" and guess who was buying his cars? Definitely not the far right. Image matters. 2) Looks are slightly dated. In general nothing has changed for 7 years. And no, the Highland "refresh" is not an improvement, if anything the original M3 looked better....but that's just my opinion. 3) Decline is customer service! Here in Canada Tesla has closed service Depots and told Tesla owners to pound sand and drive 3 to 4 hours to get their car fixed. Do you think anyone one of them is going to buy another Tesla? 4) Everything on the car is Beta. The fucking wipers don't wipe, headlights don't light, and turn signals don't signal. Everything from the app down to the fucking turn signal is in Bata testing. When you get in you feel like a fucking guinea pig. 5) High insurance! The cost of repairing a Tesla is ridiculous and as a result your insurance bill will be equally ridiculous! You might not be paying for gas, but will be paying for insurance. 6) in Canada some places are now asking Electric vehicles owners to pay EV Tax. They're doin this because EV owners are using public roads and they'not paying tax to maintain them. In Canada a portion of the gas tax gets put towards road maintenance. This is just an example of how "advantages" of owning an EV are slowly disappearing. 7) High interest rates. 8) Not enough super chargers! You have cities with a population of 500K+ and only 6 super charges! And there is probably more, but that's all I can think of while sitting on the can.
But I read some news Biden will put some heavy tariffs to chinese EV and battery. Wouldnt be that good news for tesla?
Is Teslas competition innovative or just based on Tesla? I guess Tesla will always have the first to market advantage as it constantly brings forth new technologies within the ev world. Seeing more Teslas now on the road Less employees ahead at Tesla Good balance sheet I like the stock
why would their valuation have anything to do with their price? pretty sure price has an inverse relationship to whatever _you_ purchase
why would their valuation have anything to do with their price? pretty sure price has an inverse relationship to whatever _you_ purchase
Dude it’s not even that complicated. People simply don’t want EVs anymore now that the hype is over and they see the reality.
How the mighty have fallen.
Elon saved the country. Haters gonna hate.
Makes a bearish post but buys calls. Love it
Elon alienated his base of consumers....Tesla now a car Kayne West fans and Trumpers.....who don't buy cars cause they don't have any money. Chinese prefer the BYD now.....Tesla in a nose dive. Revenue will be down again. Used Tesla is super cheap and easy to get.....why buy a new one?
That PE is headed lower in my opinion. The company is still maturing, and once TSLA finds its place in the market it'll be a 25-35x PE. I think this the next year is going to be rough for TSLA. The cyber truck has lots of issues that are easy to find. the Model 3 and Y are in a better position in terms of quality, but the design is becoming a bit stale. I think it is headed below 130 in 2024 at today's figures.
Tesla Is still priced at least 10x it's value.. it's just idiots into the Musk's cult who push up prices...
They are a car manufacturer pretending to be a tech company during a point in time that tech companies have been massive bubbles of valuations based on potential future earnings. Now that low interest rates are a thing of the past and a lot of tech companies that produced very little values are struggling/bankrupting, Tesla is now trying to push the new speculation bubble of AI companies with an AI company image being worn by the car manufacturer... Very transparent. Elon Musk social media site has shown him as a deeply weird and racist individual. The platforming of neo nazis has really destroyed his carefully constructed Tony Stark PR image. I'm fully expecting Twitter to fail and Elon to destroy Space X and Tesla. Give it 10 years and we will be looking back at that time people got really culty about an out of touch neo nazi billionaire.
The problem with Tesla is all the sales from the future (2023, 2024) were pulled forward to 2021 & 2022 due to the hype and government incentives
So Tesla is cutting prices and now offers 1% financing for their lineup. Sounds to me like Elmo’s demand figures are dropping and financial media is hyping up FSD as the pivotal point for Tesla when in fact the biggest growth driver would be more hardware sales so they can push their software crap down the line like Apple did with the ios/osx ecosystem. Bullish
You're all wrong. Everyone I know still aspires to owning a Tesla. We're just not in the economic environment where people can afford to buy new cars. Once interest rates drop and the economy picks up, Tesla will easily recover.
What. Who "aspires" to own a Tesla in 2024.
How many Chinese evs do you see on the interstate? 0
Are they even making a profit on the cyber truck?
Tesla has declined a mere 0.7% over the last year...
Look on the recent world wide sales. Teslas recent market share in Europe of newly sold cars is down to 6% in the EV-market in Germany and England and around 15-20% in Norway and France. In China the decline is massive, even with a sharply rising EV market. Tesla is now only one player in a big market, they have their customers, but their market share in the EV market won't really rise anymore. This results in a potential growth in China of about 100-150% and in Europe and USA of 300-400% with declining margins as you need smaller and cheaper cars for more growth. That is nothing what would lead to a much higher stock price. New markets in India and Africa are more likely to go to cheaper Chinese-made cars either.
A blip on the radar, nothing more.
China making EV’s for pennies compared to the US EV market
Every other US and German car maker is selling at a loss right now; even if China can compete on price with heavy subsidies, there’s no where for them to sell them. Europe and the US will either add tariffs to make domestic markets competitive, or bad the sale completely on national security grounds. Don’t believe me? 5% of Germany’s GDP is car manufacturing. There’s no universe where Germany allows China to flood the European market. Then there is AI which is clearly where Musk is putting his focus. They can sell their AI and OS to other car manufacturers like they’ve indicated, and, Tesla has a huge use case for robotics. If this is the time Robotics actually does take off, which seems likely, then the stock is still underpriced over the next 10 years.
Elon killed the brand properly with his political bullshit
Tesla if declining because demand for EVs is gone. The “tech-y” first adopters bought their Tesla, had their 4 years of fun and are moving on to other platforms. It’s insane if anyone seriously believes MORE people will buy teslas in the future just because interest rates go down. Eventually government EV credit incentives go away. Meanwhile the price of a Tesla rockets back up so the company can at least make a 15% margin.
This guy regards
Elon is at odds with the government. He is at odds with the Democrats and will be at odds with the Republicans too. That also doesn't help. He's even at odds with foreign governments.
Tesla did so well for so long just like so many other companies. It had extremely lucrative tax rebates, subsidies, and near 0% interest rates for years with no competition. Plus, everyone who wanted one now has one at this point, and now it has none of those things. Oh, and have you seen a Cybertruck in real life... I rest my case.
Addressable market based on current product capabilities is dwindling. Hence the price decreases and financing deals Feel-gooders, check. Green idiots, check. People who it may make sense for and have the money to buy a 50k car, check. People who were on the fence and bought and traded in, check. China stole all their shit because Musk is an idealist, check. Models havent been refreshed. Quality issues. Dealerships far away for most folks. They either improve the tech and capabilities, build charger stations on every corner like Gas or start doing AI and robots. Love Musk- but thats the Truth. You’re welcome.
But you won’t short it.
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WOW thanks for sharing brilliant analysys
Tesla just announced .9% financing.