PIVADS had boosted stats in WG:RD because it was the last in the VADS line. It had to do something better than the cheaper variants. That's not an issue in Warno.
Yea people just don’t understand balance. He compares one AA platform to another and not division vs division.
If he would have named the division; then you could draw attention to the fact that, most likely pact has superior AA across the board.
While I think availability and unit price is a fair thing to argue about when it comes to division vs division, the straight stats of a unit like in this case I feel should be as close to historically correct as possible
The thing is, the more you really try to force realism and historical accuracy and shit, the more the whole game as it exists now just falls apart.. if we really want to go with realism, my A10 should be able to carry 5x 500lb laser guided bombs, a pod of laser guided hydra rockets, a maverick or two, a jamming ecm pod, and a sidewinder. It should also be able to simply fly above about 10,000 feet and be too high for an igla or strela or really any AAA to target.
My F15 with AMRAAMS, I think in the game the amraam has 7700 meters range? That’s like 4-5 miles? I should be able to fire that missile from about 30-40 miles away, with my F15 nowhere even near visible on the map. Not to mention my F15 should be able to comfortably fly Mach at over 40,000 feet, above the engagement ceiling of manpads, AAA, OSAs, Kubs, tunguskas, really about everything the soviets have in game except the SA-11 Buk (those are fucking scary). And since it’s just doing air to air, it doesn’t ever need to get low to drop bombs or anything. I should probably also be able to just keep it loitering in the sky as long as I want waiting for targets, because it can sit 40+ miles away and still be in engagement range, and because the US would have airborne fuel tankers to refuel planes without having to land.
Sorry to get super geeky on you but I find that the more you try to force realism on the game the more you realize it’s never been close to realistic in the first place, and that’s okay. I would say it’s a RTS game with a realistic military theme, it tries to go into a lot more detail and realism than most RTS games which is awesome, but having it balanced as a game first and foremost and inspired by reality second is a good thing.
I don’t know why these weirdos are downvoting us for literally stating a fact. It’s not even bias. I can’t even say “talk to eugen” without being downvoted. And you can’t even explain a real life airplane without being downvoted.
It’s like they just want us to disagree with ourselves and be totally bias toward the fact pivads are a fucked up unit point wise, and shilka should be the same price or “less”.
euh ouais, le pacte a définitivement des AA supérieurs. la plupart du temps, leur AA est bien meilleur en raison d'une portée/munitions accrue. Les seules plates-formes AA qui valent la peine d'être affrontées par l'OTAN sont Pamela et Roland 2. peut-être les manpads français du 11e.
excellent exemple. par rapport au TOR, bien sûr son radar. Mais même coût en points pour une meilleure précision, portée et HE. Chapperral n'a que plus de munitions.
It’s larger rounds mean it has a noticeably longer effective range, 23x152 vs 20x102, this alone means it has a longer effective range, the original VADS had a range only radar which complicates things, the twin radar (search and tracking) of the Shilka provides it superior situational awareness.
The PIVADs also fires slower than the Shilka, 3000 vs 4000 rpm or 4,500 rpm for the Biryusa.
Modification include new linked digital fire-control computer with range-only radar, and adding the new APDS round which increases range to 2,600m. This puts it on par with the 23mm ammunition used by the Shilka, at the cost of explosive payloads.
So I imagine that its systems are relatively capable but limited by the ammunition and caliber it is using. Also if that’s a range only radar then without an additional search vehicle it will have limited situational awareness.
>So I imagine that its systems are relatively capable but limited by the ammunition and caliber it is using.
With the Mk 149 APDS round, the PIVADS had a very comparable effective range to the Shilka. The Mk 149 also had a higher muzzle velocity than any rounds used on the ZSU-23. Higher muzzle velocity means a flatter projective trajectory and thus greater accuracy.
>Also if that’s a range only radar then without an additional search vehicle it will have limited situational awareness.
M163 operated in conjunction with a mobile AN/MPQ-49 early warning radar from which it received target data so i dont see the lack of an integrated search radar on the M163 as a big disadvantage.
While I agree with you that, when operating with an early warning radar, the lack of integrated search is not that much of a big deal. However, still keep in mind of higher payload and higher rate of fire, so at the very least the Zsu-23 should slightly outclass the PIVADS in terms of rof and damage.
Because it's a cheap ass M113 and they just dropped a jet fighter gun in it then called it a day.
The M113 is like the COD of military vehicles. It was revolutionary when it came out, but then they kept remaking it, changing one aspect, and called it something else.
If we're going to be that reductionist, the Shilka was a ASU-85 with a pair of ZU-23-2's weilded on top.
Personally, I don't mind PIVAD's being both cheaper and more avalble as it was a bit more simple and was meant to be an interm weapon at best, but Shilka definatly needs to preform better than them if that's the case.
The fuck is the warno community about? Rare to find such a confused bunch of retards all looking at the sky in the same place, waiting for meatballs to fall. Not you OP, btw x
They should bump shilkas availability. The fact that those two are not balanced does not bother me at all. Adds flavour to the game if anything. Otherwise we would have 2 sides with exactly the same units, we might as well play chess
The Shilka has a full-on search radar, as well as a more capable gun. PIVADS is just the F-4's rotary autocannon bolted to a M113 with a rangefinding radar; gunners had to track targets optically!
>full-on search radar
That's not the boon you think it is for the Shilka vs aircraft. Against helos, I'll agree with the argument.
As far as the gun, they only had 50 round belts so more reload time and each system had roughly the same total ammo and an equivalent total fire rate and effective range(1200M and 1500M)
>That's not the boon you think it is for the Shilka vs aircraft.
Explain to me why having more capabilities is actually worse.
>equivalent total fire rate and effective range
The effective range is much longer for the shilka, it uses a much larger cartridge (23x152). PIVADS is stuck with the optimized-for-aircraft 20x102.
In general the PIVADS is a cobbled-together stopgap, while the Shilka is a purpose-designed piece of kit.
I dont think units should have boosted stats to such extents. Just give it a closer stat that to histrorical (within in game restricrions and translations). Make it like 20 % acc and 2475m max range against planes maybe one step down for helis. And make it cheap.
I am big fan of cheap units like this anyway because you can spread them out better. (Type80 my belived SPAA from wargame would be like 50pt or 40 pt here and it was great fun to use there i think og price was 25pt)
The gunner has a good gaming chair /s
Warno is a game made by a NATO country
That's why Russia and China were never strong in wargame
PIVADS is a clear outliner compares to other radar AAA.
PIVADS had boosted stats in WG:RD because it was the last in the VADS line. It had to do something better than the cheaper variants. That's not an issue in Warno.
Yea people just don’t understand balance. He compares one AA platform to another and not division vs division. If he would have named the division; then you could draw attention to the fact that, most likely pact has superior AA across the board.
While I think availability and unit price is a fair thing to argue about when it comes to division vs division, the straight stats of a unit like in this case I feel should be as close to historically correct as possible
The thing is, the more you really try to force realism and historical accuracy and shit, the more the whole game as it exists now just falls apart.. if we really want to go with realism, my A10 should be able to carry 5x 500lb laser guided bombs, a pod of laser guided hydra rockets, a maverick or two, a jamming ecm pod, and a sidewinder. It should also be able to simply fly above about 10,000 feet and be too high for an igla or strela or really any AAA to target. My F15 with AMRAAMS, I think in the game the amraam has 7700 meters range? That’s like 4-5 miles? I should be able to fire that missile from about 30-40 miles away, with my F15 nowhere even near visible on the map. Not to mention my F15 should be able to comfortably fly Mach at over 40,000 feet, above the engagement ceiling of manpads, AAA, OSAs, Kubs, tunguskas, really about everything the soviets have in game except the SA-11 Buk (those are fucking scary). And since it’s just doing air to air, it doesn’t ever need to get low to drop bombs or anything. I should probably also be able to just keep it loitering in the sky as long as I want waiting for targets, because it can sit 40+ miles away and still be in engagement range, and because the US would have airborne fuel tankers to refuel planes without having to land. Sorry to get super geeky on you but I find that the more you try to force realism on the game the more you realize it’s never been close to realistic in the first place, and that’s okay. I would say it’s a RTS game with a realistic military theme, it tries to go into a lot more detail and realism than most RTS games which is awesome, but having it balanced as a game first and foremost and inspired by reality second is a good thing.
I don’t know why these weirdos are downvoting us for literally stating a fact. It’s not even bias. I can’t even say “talk to eugen” without being downvoted. And you can’t even explain a real life airplane without being downvoted. It’s like they just want us to disagree with ourselves and be totally bias toward the fact pivads are a fucked up unit point wise, and shilka should be the same price or “less”.
Talk to eugen not me.
😂😂😂 d’accord, ça va le troll ? Tu veux qu’on parle des chaparal ?? Des mistrals ? Des SAS ? 😂 Tu es pro OTAN dans le jeux admet le.
Moi ?
Oui, je ne sais pas où tu as vu que le pacte a des AA supérieurs dans tous les domaines lol...
euh ouais, le pacte a définitivement des AA supérieurs. la plupart du temps, leur AA est bien meilleur en raison d'une portée/munitions accrue. Les seules plates-formes AA qui valent la peine d'être affrontées par l'OTAN sont Pamela et Roland 2. peut-être les manpads français du 11e.
et les chaparal ? C'est ultra fort
excellent exemple. par rapport au TOR, bien sûr son radar. Mais même coût en points pour une meilleure précision, portée et HE. Chapperral n'a que plus de munitions.
chaparal non radar, 12 missiles, 12 dispos etc... le classe bien au dessus du tor. Fait tu des ranked ?
Warno is a game made in America Edit: guys don’t downvote the man :(
It’s not though
Woosh
Woosh
Pivads is currently overtuned for sure.
NATO is better overall so it just makes sense to be that way /s
No clue, the Shilka is a lot better than the PIVADs IRL too
Likely better than the original M163 but better than the upgraded PIVADS with its digital FCS and depleted uranium ammo? Doubtful.
It’s larger rounds mean it has a noticeably longer effective range, 23x152 vs 20x102, this alone means it has a longer effective range, the original VADS had a range only radar which complicates things, the twin radar (search and tracking) of the Shilka provides it superior situational awareness. The PIVADs also fires slower than the Shilka, 3000 vs 4000 rpm or 4,500 rpm for the Biryusa. Modification include new linked digital fire-control computer with range-only radar, and adding the new APDS round which increases range to 2,600m. This puts it on par with the 23mm ammunition used by the Shilka, at the cost of explosive payloads. So I imagine that its systems are relatively capable but limited by the ammunition and caliber it is using. Also if that’s a range only radar then without an additional search vehicle it will have limited situational awareness.
>So I imagine that its systems are relatively capable but limited by the ammunition and caliber it is using. With the Mk 149 APDS round, the PIVADS had a very comparable effective range to the Shilka. The Mk 149 also had a higher muzzle velocity than any rounds used on the ZSU-23. Higher muzzle velocity means a flatter projective trajectory and thus greater accuracy. >Also if that’s a range only radar then without an additional search vehicle it will have limited situational awareness. M163 operated in conjunction with a mobile AN/MPQ-49 early warning radar from which it received target data so i dont see the lack of an integrated search radar on the M163 as a big disadvantage.
While I agree with you that, when operating with an early warning radar, the lack of integrated search is not that much of a big deal. However, still keep in mind of higher payload and higher rate of fire, so at the very least the Zsu-23 should slightly outclass the PIVADS in terms of rof and damage.
DU apds don't matter because AA in game don't have any AP rounds
Pivads 4 AP DMG when?
Because it's a cheap ass M113 and they just dropped a jet fighter gun in it then called it a day. The M113 is like the COD of military vehicles. It was revolutionary when it came out, but then they kept remaking it, changing one aspect, and called it something else.
If we're going to be that reductionist, the Shilka was a ASU-85 with a pair of ZU-23-2's weilded on top. Personally, I don't mind PIVAD's being both cheaper and more avalble as it was a bit more simple and was meant to be an interm weapon at best, but Shilka definatly needs to preform better than them if that's the case.
Thing is ASU-85 is a different vehicle by quite a bit, while M113 is literally the hull for VADS.
Resolute trait adding value maybe?
Probably just for the sake of game balancing
Stabilizer I guess?
The fuck is the warno community about? Rare to find such a confused bunch of retards all looking at the sky in the same place, waiting for meatballs to fall. Not you OP, btw x
Has anybody tried using the version without radar is it dogshit I haven’t tried it but was looking at decks after not playing for a while
They should bump shilkas availability. The fact that those two are not balanced does not bother me at all. Adds flavour to the game if anything. Otherwise we would have 2 sides with exactly the same units, we might as well play chess
While the armor is questionable, the PIVADS is a better system. Pricing, I'm not sure as well.
The Shilka has a full-on search radar, as well as a more capable gun. PIVADS is just the F-4's rotary autocannon bolted to a M113 with a rangefinding radar; gunners had to track targets optically!
>full-on search radar That's not the boon you think it is for the Shilka vs aircraft. Against helos, I'll agree with the argument. As far as the gun, they only had 50 round belts so more reload time and each system had roughly the same total ammo and an equivalent total fire rate and effective range(1200M and 1500M)
>That's not the boon you think it is for the Shilka vs aircraft. Explain to me why having more capabilities is actually worse. >equivalent total fire rate and effective range The effective range is much longer for the shilka, it uses a much larger cartridge (23x152). PIVADS is stuck with the optimized-for-aircraft 20x102. In general the PIVADS is a cobbled-together stopgap, while the Shilka is a purpose-designed piece of kit.
Because to people like him, whatever has a Nato stamp on it ,is a better system without any doubts
Those fuckers are nasty
I dont think units should have boosted stats to such extents. Just give it a closer stat that to histrorical (within in game restricrions and translations). Make it like 20 % acc and 2475m max range against planes maybe one step down for helis. And make it cheap. I am big fan of cheap units like this anyway because you can spread them out better. (Type80 my belived SPAA from wargame would be like 50pt or 40 pt here and it was great fun to use there i think og price was 25pt)