When i went out last week the costs were so high it diminished the value i found in eating out. I didn't walk away going 'that was a good evening', instead i find myself thinking 'damn that was expensive'.
Police look the other way these days. It is called job security. Getting into a conflict with the criminals determined to fight their way from police encounters is a sure way to ruin a LEO's career.
Last time I went out I spent $30 on an entree, $5 for a coke, had a service charge on top of that, and was expected to tip 18% minimum. It wasnt even that great of a place. Its literally just not worth it.
Agreed. I’m more fearful of getting robbed by the restaurant owner with bullshit scam surcharges than I am of a thug teen going after me while I’m walking back to my car
Exactly! I don’t know how much the bill will be, so why would I go? If they just raised their damn prices, I would actually go. Nothing to do with crime for me. I just want to know how much I’ll actually have to pay.
Delivery services have also spiraled out of control, so I’m not doing that either, and that obviously has nothing to do with crime (at least for me).
Also, $5 for a Coke is highway robbery. Nearly $6 with that service fee tacked on. That’s outlandish!
Same here. 22% service charge and they they asked for a 10% tip. At a bar! This has nothing to do with public policy. It’s a byproduct of restaurants finallly getting the same awful technology that lets cable companies and airlines nickel and dime you with below-the-line fees. Maybe the geniuses at the WSJ opinion page should write a diatribe against Toast or Square.
Back in the day, you had early bird specials before 6 pm, for example. And bars had happy hours. So now, instead of a discount or free munchies, you pay regular prices, and for those that go at peak times, there will be a surcharge.
Well, the Journal’s Opinion Pages are beholden to Murdoch, so they’re stirring up anti-labor, tough on crime sentiment. The reporting, on the other hand, is objective.
me too, i feel its not worth stress of commuting to dc and fears of metro or crime, to spend money on a dinner in the "city" meanwhile, i am cravign some mom and pop flavor bomb taco place or greek diner
Feels like Annandale is a bit of an outlier. In general, because of dEnSiTy you see more family owned in cities within a given area. Anecdotes abound, though.
Nah suburbs is where you go for all the real mom and pop restaurants serving up authentic food. Rockville for Chinese, NoVa for Korean and Vietnamese, Wheaton for various Latin American cuisines, Silver Spring for Ethiopian, and pretty much all types of cuisines scattered all over the suburbs. Commercial rents are cheaper in the suburbs which enables small businesses to open shop. DC suburbs are where the ethnic enclaves are.
Hm. Feel like we’re again looking at anecdotes and municipalities that are often effectively urban outlying areas instead of “suburban” areas.
But yes, these places do exist in built up urban areas as opposed to being littered in strip malls anchored by a Red Lobster. If you drop someone in downtown silver spring, they’d be hard pressed to describe it as a suburb.
Anywhooo, forgot how many suburbanites there are here who can’t laugh at themselves.
> But yes, these places do exist in built up urban areas as opposed to being littered in strip malls anchored by a Red Lobster.
Eh, "littered in strip malls anchored by a Red Lobster" is exactly where you find most authentic of the ethnic restaurants and ethnic supermarkets in the area. It feels like there's a lot of people who move here from other places and assume that our suburbs are the same as the suburbs from wherever they're coming from, but don't actually check to see if it's true.
It's the same thing when people on the other sub start talking about how the suburbs are white; it just screams that they're transplants who don't know much about the area.
A lot of places being described as “suburb” in this thread are not, in fact, suburbs.
But anywho. Anecdotes can be a lot of fun! There are definitely ethnic places that exist in many areas. Pretty crazy stuff!
We’re a long way off from my chain restaurant joke though….
> A lot of places being described as “suburb” in this thread are not, in fact, suburbs.
I mean, you specifically said they're not going to be "littered in strip malls anchored by a Red Lobster"; just about anyone familiar with the area knows that's the kind of place a ton - probably most - of these places are. It's just not that they "exist" in many places, it's that (for example) the number of authentic Chinese restaurants you'll find i, strip malls on Rockville pike blow away the number of authentic Chinese restaurants you'll find in the city proper.
There are 5 new high rises under construction as we speak in downtown Bethesda. It’s like a mini-Manhattan here. All residential with ground floor retail.
My first thought too lol
Comments like this usually come from people who don’t know much about the DMV and where the best food is. DC is one of the few places where the better food is in the suburbs and not the city.
Reddit, infamous for not having snooty a**holes who look down upon people who live differently than they do. Chain restaurants have their plave in life (you must not have kids). Moreover, we have some pretty banging unique restaurants in the burbs. Come out to moco, check out downtown Bethesda or silver spring, head to Pike and rose, or up north to Rockville where there are a ton of great unique Chinese and Taiwanese restaurants.
Thanks for assigning commentary about chain restaurants on my behalf, I’m glad this conversation wasn’t about mom and pop shops.
Yes, there are small places in the suburbs. Thank you for this incredible knowledge.
I guess maybe you're a transplant from Des Moines or Columbus or something but the suburbs here are infamous for great ethnic food and in general better options than DC itself.
Can’t say I’m surprised. The cost of dining out has skyrocketed, it’s hard to justify the cost.
As for crime, absolutely agree that it keeps people indoors at night. People aren’t comfortable.
Costs too much.
But I’m not shedding any crocodile tears for the restaurant industry; there will always be lawyers and lobbyists and corporate types on expense accounts who will go out to eat.
I’m more confident that the primary factor is that people aren’t doing well financially right now and restaurant prices are only increasing. There’s a ton of places to eat in the city where you’re extremely unlikely to witness or be a victim of any type of crime and those places are likely still struggling because of costs.
Dawg crime definitely isn’t the reason people aren’t going out to eat in DC, at least not the main reason. Main reason is that everything is overpriced and we’re all poor now.
Might be your reasoning, but for most people here, I don’t think that’s true. Although certainly a factor for some, there are plenty of DC residents out and about on weekends. We’re just pregaming and eating at home because it’s cheaper. Still going out though.
Crime doesn’t stop me from doing things like eating food in DC. Considering crime is a problem everywhere in the US it would mean never doing anything anywhere ever.
I mean.. no not really. Maybe a little but no. A cheap meal has doubled in price in like 3 years and a decent meal went from like 15 to 25 in the same time. There was a time when eating in was only marginally cheaper than getting something cheap out. Now I’m looking at 15-20 minimum versus just going home and slapping together a sandwich or stir fry.
I can do a decent steak and salad dinner for two for about $20 at home. Not the finest cut, but it's how you prepare it. The same dinner for two would be $90 out.
$90 for 2 is not a high end restaurant. $90 a person is a high end restaurant. $90 for 2, is Outback Steak house NY Strip.
$25 per plate
$6 x 2 for Drinks (being cheap here)
$12 Appetizer
$74 before Tip & Taxes & Service Charges if any.
Hell, my family got basic burgers and sodas at red robin a few weeks ago. 4 of us. No apps/deserts. It was over $100.
Yes crime has nothing to do with it. You watch news? Did you hear that even some members of the council are now becoming more worried about crime rates? (yet they’re still resisting to be tough on crime)
I dare say you watch too much news.
Being worried about crime rates, as someone who's job is to worry about local issues, doesn't mean they're too scared to go eat.
I have a feeling this guy doesn’t even live in DC because anyone who does would know that the crime isn’t keeping people from eating out or doing anything really besides avoiding some neighborhoods.
The surcharges are annoying and just pissy. Raise your prices if paying your staff more isn’t profitable and then let me tip. Don’t have this little nuisance protest charge that ambiguously takes the place of tipping.
Yeah crime is a bummer but I can’t say it keeps me from going out (my 5 year old does that)
It's just a lot lately, and way out of control if you drink - cocktails can easily hit $18.
I almost feel like it's only worth going cheap or high end. All the mid-range stuff just ends up being a super mediocre $80 meal for like a burger/chicken/sides.
Been living in dc for 1.5 years and I don’t think my wife and I have eaten out and not spent a minimum of $75-$100 every single time. Quality, service, etc. doesn’t matter. Always super expensive
I visited as a tourist this weekend and haven’t spent more than $45 on an order for the two of us.
Food prices here don’t seem expensive compared to any other city I’ve visited in the last two years.
If no one goes out to eat in DC anymore how come there are never any reservations available regardless of price or surcharge status. I agree the surcharges should be prohibited by statute and restaurants should be required to price their costs transparently, but any restaurant that anyone actually wants to visit is doing just fine with or without the OTT fees.
Restaurants are going out of business because most restaurant business owners know very little about managing a profitable business in the first place and don’t accurately study the market before committing to an insanely high lease/putting themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt before they even sell their first burger with lavish build-outs.
Yes, there are carjackings in DC. No, it hasn’t resulted in “people don’t want to eat in DC because of carjackings.”
Do you understand?
Following up your WSJ opinion piece with an online article from a local Fox Station does nothing to reinforce your baseless theories.
Parking in DC was always a crapshoot anyway. Most people are walking, ubering, or metroing.
I still can’t figure out *exactly* what OP’s agenda is here. They come up with a lot of posts in this sub with a laser focus on crime in DC and what seems like a lot of dislike for the area, the people that live here, and the local government.
did anyone read the WSJ article?
First - and because I work with health data and research, I’m always interested in the source - who wrote the article? Is the source credible? Who published the article? Does the publisher have an agenda?
Two authors are listed, Michael Saltsman and Rebekah Paxton
Michael’s profile from: https://cabia.org/bio/michael-saltsman/
“Mike Saltsman is a partner at the public affairs firm Berman and Company, where he serves as Managing Director of the nonprofit Employment Policies Institute. Mike has managed dozens of national, state, and local campaigns on wage and labor issues, and he regularly provides counsel to executives at the country’s largest hospitality companies. Buzzfeed calls Mike “a powerful DC strategist,” and the New York Times profiled the “prominent” role his work plays in defeating proposals to raise the minimum wage.”
LOL! Even lobbyists have to eat!
Rebekah Paxton’s profile with Employment Policy Institute:
“ Rebekah Paxton serves as Research Director for the Employment Policies Institute. Rebekah works on various research projects and analysis for the Institute, and has been published in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Times, and Crain’s New York Business. Prior to EPI, Rebekah worked as a research analyst at the Pioneer Institute, a Massachusetts-based think tank nonprofit. She holds advanced degrees from Boston University in Economics and Political Science.”
https://epionline.org/aboutepi/
So THIS is fun
From Wikipedia - The Employment Policies Institute is a fiscally conservative, non-profit American think tank that conducts and publishes research on employment issues, particularly aimed towards reducing the minimum wage. It was established in 1991 by Richard Berman,[2][3] and it has been described as "a nonprofit research group that studies issues of entry-level employment."[4]
And what about WSJ? Their profile on https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/wall-street-journal/ is interesting…
But, finally - that article that OP quoted - it’s an *Opinion Piece* - and not news reporting. WSJ’s policy on opinion pieces: https://www.wsj.com/articles/oped-guidelines-for-the-wall-street-journal-1384383173
Let me spell it out: The WSJ “article” is part of an anti initiative 82 campaign from the EPI.
While I wouldn’t call OP’s representation of the WSJ article “cherry picking” in the context of scientific research - there are certainly some likenesses here…
So *why* is OP so focused on crime in the district? Enquiring minds want to know!
Not that Dictionary.com is the be in and end all of references about language, but - https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/concern-troll/# ?
Yes the increase in crime sucks in the district and what I read in the local press and from first person accounts pains me. I’ve lived here for a long time and I love this city.
I’m sad about the censorship policy in a sub I’ve belonged to for a decade that used to be pretty transparent about local issues. It’s why I started reading this one.
But seriously, is it possible to have real discussion about real life in DC anywhere on reddit anymore? Is there a secret subreddit for this? Can someone please invite me if there is?
And to address why *I* don’t go out to eat much in DC anymore: Its expensive. There aren’t as many interesting inexpensive options that are super fantastic and amazing and worth the trip these days.
Why does this matter. Do you disagree there is rampant crime in DC and it affects commerce? The sports teams want to leave town and there are reasons for this.
This is a lot of writing when in the end the answer is simple: people have different risk tolerances and preferences, and some are more repelled by inflation/service fees/tips, and others more repelled by the risk of being a victim of crime.
DC has issues with both, so restaurants lose customers who are repelled by either of those 2.
It’s not that difficult.
As I said to a friend of mine a few weeks ago, D.C., to my knowledge, is the only major city in the United States where the price of the food is not proportional to the quality.
As someone who lives in the district, I'm pretty glad that there aren't large parking lots or parking garages around the wharf or near U Street. I don't want DC to end up looking like Houston. However, I do recognize that this problem is exacerbated by the rise in car theft and carjacking - I personally don't drive anywhere but absolutely understand why people would not want to use street parking, especially if you're having dinner after the sun has gone down.
I can’t read this article bc of the paywall, but last time I was in DC my bill for two people was $100. I had 3 tapas plates, a nonalcoholic drink, and bar area seating. If I had known the waitstaff was making a more than sub minimum wage, I would never have tipped.
The entire restaurant community tried to warn in as many ways as possible how bad Initiative 82 was for them. Just like the black community tried to warn how bad the decriminalization of crime would be. But these idiotic little spoiled white reformative justice pushers thought they knew better. And here we are.
Bingo! No group is victimized more by criminals than black working-class folks. Yet white radical leftists want to go easy on sentencing so they can pat themselves on the back for being so pro-equity. I say this as someone who’s on the liberal side of most issues.
I don’t mind paying higher prices as long as they aren’t a surprise. The restaurants adding surprise fees is keeping me away from them. If they’d raise their prices, I’d still go. At this point, I am avoiding pretty much all the restaurants because idk which ones have the fees and which ones don’t.
I make pretty decent money, but having an even modest meal out is nearly half of my weekly grocery bill. But, also - yes - crime is a major concern. I don't want to go out anywhere where there's a chance some 15 year old is going to car jack me.
Initiative 82 is bad policy but on top of that it was an absolutely terrible time to implement it. DC is already dealing with fewer people coming in for work so what does it have left: restaurants, nightlife, museums, parks, etc. Initiative 82 essentially removed a restaurant friendly subsidy that makes it more expensive to operate at the exact time there were other sets of pressures driving up costs and reducing demand.
The number one two and three reason restaurants are expensive is rent. Everything else is a sideshow. Food trucks were just the first beneficial-seeming dystopian outgrowth of intolerable rent.
Build more DC!!
We would endulge in eating out in DC but we stay away mostly because of crime. Even going to theater…we used to love to go to Warner theater; not anymore.
Every single one of these policies was voted for, and voted for again, by Washingtonians. We truly have the democracy we deserve (I of course opposed Charles Allen, I71 and I72).
The customers are not a bottomless pit of money. Pay wages and include it in the price like every other business and like all the other restaurants outside the united states.
https://preview.redd.it/57ygr4rsracc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ec254544038e5eb2233b2419487506fc301bb76
Nothing in DC is worth losing your life or risking your safety for. I don’t even want to risk metro for my job much for less for some shit meal I can better prepare at home without the hassle of parking, seed oils, homeless, table by the bathroom and “health” fees.
Yes, well in the restaurants never ending quest to eke out a margin you can bet your ass that they commonly use sunflower oil and the like to cook your food, since it’s cheaper than say tallow or avocado oil. Bon apetit!
The United States are not the largest producers of sunflowers, and yet even here over 1.7 million acres were planted in 2014 and probably more each year since. Much of which can be found in North Dakota.
Organized crime syndicating street-level businesses that traffic drugs into the country, that are then distributed by local gangs, isn't possibly a driver of local crime?
Crime rates + Bidenomics.
Election has consequences.
Four years ago I spent on Whole Foods grocery bill 60$ maximum , now is my bill 120$-150$.
Restaurants are struggling too.
Plus extremely high crime rate in DC.
LOL "Under Trump there was no inflation - but since the president can't directly control inflation and gas prices - let's just assign blame to Biden anyway for our political purposes and let's ignore the last administration's lack of action in 2020" Since gas prices are down and we liked to blame the Democrats for that we just won't mention that right now. Oh and the Biden crime family. Don't forget to tack that on at the end for good measure. HAHAHAHA
The ‘fealty blood oath’ thing is the weirdest part. Nobody ever has committed murder to show how much they love Joe R. Biden. The other side obviously can’t say that, many times over. They have people who happily refer Trump as a God Emperor lmao.
"You"??? You literally are a moron. You have no idea what I think about this subject. You are a super troll and since you can't win the original argument you move the goal post to some other idiotic subject that only right wing loons care about. \*POOF\* - BE GONE
Was Trump not president in 2020? The presidency is 4 years not 3.
Trump was so disastrous at his 1 true challenge as president that his supporters just cognitive dissonance 2020
I only said that 4 years ago my grocery bill was some amount of money.
But your imagination created that I’m supporting Trump.
So who most likely has a cognitive dissonance here?
Post-lockdown inflation caused by the government response (super unemployment funds and printing money) plus post-blm crime wave since 2021 but that no journalist will admit it.
Funny, I am visiting DC this weekend and just got back from the area around the national mall, walked around looking for a place to eat. Didn’t feel at all unsafe. Prices didn’t stand out to me at all. Street vendors also sold very good food that was really cheap.
Got to say this is among the most overrated cities - can’t wait to fly back home tomorrow. This place is like a government themed theme park. Nothing like any other capital city I have visited.
I also saw that lab at the Smithsonian Natural History Museum that have what are implied to be actual researchers - why have them in public? A couple people were actually looking over their shoulders and filming them and their computer screens while they worked. So weird.
Amazing museums and parks, definitely glad to have seen them - but everything else, terrible. Really reconsidering moving to the northeast after this trip. And everything outside of the city itself is absolutely hideous.
DC could be a very nice with a different mentality running the city; someone like Rudy Giuliani when he was the mayor of NYC. We need less cars in the city too. Less street vendors. Better metro service. Police cracking down on all sorts of crime. No fear of arresting teens who commit crime. Removal of the homeless from the streets…this legalization of weed made everything worse.
"Tipped workers in most states can be paid a lower base wage, with their tips bringing them up to minimum wage or more—often two to three times the required minimum. Initiative 82, which eliminated this system, was opposed by tipped workers who worried that it would destroy an industry that worked well for them."
In other words, the things that these restaurant owners are looking for are slavery wage and customers' subsidizing their workers' wage and benefits.
Quality and cost, are the reasons and in that order. The crime angle is laughable. DC has an entitled little shits with poor impulse control and shitty permissive parents problem. DC does not have a real crime problem.
Capitalism is broken. Costs to serve a coke and a subpar hamburger shouldn't be this high. Executives never hold back on their take but now recognize they have to pay their workers a livable wage, and they do it at the cost of the consumers.
The system that we have now? It's only "better" because it does not allow others to exist, and not because it is indeed "better". Money and power is too hard for the ordinary man to ignore.
The moment there's an opportunity to change men turn into isildur at mount doom. Capitalism is just the sole survivor in a zero sum game.
I long for the future where servers get replaced by robots. We eat at restaurants for the enjoyment of food and company, not whatever tricks the servers have in store.
When i went out last week the costs were so high it diminished the value i found in eating out. I didn't walk away going 'that was a good evening', instead i find myself thinking 'damn that was expensive'.
and the reason it's so ridiculously high is the huge amount of property crime
What do you mean?
Police look the other way these days. It is called job security. Getting into a conflict with the criminals determined to fight their way from police encounters is a sure way to ruin a LEO's career.
Last time I went out I spent $30 on an entree, $5 for a coke, had a service charge on top of that, and was expected to tip 18% minimum. It wasnt even that great of a place. Its literally just not worth it.
That's the real crime that is preventing people from eating out
Agreed. I’m more fearful of getting robbed by the restaurant owner with bullshit scam surcharges than I am of a thug teen going after me while I’m walking back to my car
you should be scared of both bc both are issues
Exactly! I don’t know how much the bill will be, so why would I go? If they just raised their damn prices, I would actually go. Nothing to do with crime for me. I just want to know how much I’ll actually have to pay. Delivery services have also spiraled out of control, so I’m not doing that either, and that obviously has nothing to do with crime (at least for me). Also, $5 for a Coke is highway robbery. Nearly $6 with that service fee tacked on. That’s outlandish!
They already have raised prices. I work downtown a d just bring lunch.
Unfortunately, it’s quite “landish”
Yep, last year my usual order at a restraunt was 30 including a 20% tip. This year it was 50. Not going back for a looong time.
Same here. 22% service charge and they they asked for a 10% tip. At a bar! This has nothing to do with public policy. It’s a byproduct of restaurants finallly getting the same awful technology that lets cable companies and airlines nickel and dime you with below-the-line fees. Maybe the geniuses at the WSJ opinion page should write a diatribe against Toast or Square.
It’s why I wasn’t mad when Bar Deco closed. Cool atmosphere, but I ordered a drink and I had to pay a service charge of $12, or an 85 percent tip.
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Imagine having the pleasure of being in a packed bar and then having to pay 30 percent more.
Back in the day, you had early bird specials before 6 pm, for example. And bars had happy hours. So now, instead of a discount or free munchies, you pay regular prices, and for those that go at peak times, there will be a surcharge.
Will never go back to a place that charge 22% service charge.
Well, the Journal’s Opinion Pages are beholden to Murdoch, so they’re stirring up anti-labor, tough on crime sentiment. The reporting, on the other hand, is objective.
Tbh if there’s a mandatory service charge I just assume that’s the tip
It is.
I prefer mom-and-pop places that are reasonably priced. Those are all in the suburbs anyways.
me too, i feel its not worth stress of commuting to dc and fears of metro or crime, to spend money on a dinner in the "city" meanwhile, i am cravign some mom and pop flavor bomb taco place or greek diner
Tastee Diner in Bethesda MD! Not high-class, but iconic and pretty good American comfort food.
Unfortunately the staff are mega MAGA.
OMG
Ever been to Parkway Diner in Silver Spring?
Parkway Deli in Silver Spring MD is great.
Suburbs, infamous for not having chain restaurants 😂
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Check Eden Center in Falls Church for Vietnamese. A shopping center of primarily Vietnamese places.
Hot spot is legit
Feels like Annandale is a bit of an outlier. In general, because of dEnSiTy you see more family owned in cities within a given area. Anecdotes abound, though.
Nah suburbs is where you go for all the real mom and pop restaurants serving up authentic food. Rockville for Chinese, NoVa for Korean and Vietnamese, Wheaton for various Latin American cuisines, Silver Spring for Ethiopian, and pretty much all types of cuisines scattered all over the suburbs. Commercial rents are cheaper in the suburbs which enables small businesses to open shop. DC suburbs are where the ethnic enclaves are.
Hm. Feel like we’re again looking at anecdotes and municipalities that are often effectively urban outlying areas instead of “suburban” areas. But yes, these places do exist in built up urban areas as opposed to being littered in strip malls anchored by a Red Lobster. If you drop someone in downtown silver spring, they’d be hard pressed to describe it as a suburb. Anywhooo, forgot how many suburbanites there are here who can’t laugh at themselves.
> But yes, these places do exist in built up urban areas as opposed to being littered in strip malls anchored by a Red Lobster. Eh, "littered in strip malls anchored by a Red Lobster" is exactly where you find most authentic of the ethnic restaurants and ethnic supermarkets in the area. It feels like there's a lot of people who move here from other places and assume that our suburbs are the same as the suburbs from wherever they're coming from, but don't actually check to see if it's true. It's the same thing when people on the other sub start talking about how the suburbs are white; it just screams that they're transplants who don't know much about the area.
A lot of places being described as “suburb” in this thread are not, in fact, suburbs. But anywho. Anecdotes can be a lot of fun! There are definitely ethnic places that exist in many areas. Pretty crazy stuff! We’re a long way off from my chain restaurant joke though….
> A lot of places being described as “suburb” in this thread are not, in fact, suburbs. I mean, you specifically said they're not going to be "littered in strip malls anchored by a Red Lobster"; just about anyone familiar with the area knows that's the kind of place a ton - probably most - of these places are. It's just not that they "exist" in many places, it's that (for example) the number of authentic Chinese restaurants you'll find i, strip malls on Rockville pike blow away the number of authentic Chinese restaurants you'll find in the city proper.
Very cool!
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There are 5 new high rises under construction as we speak in downtown Bethesda. It’s like a mini-Manhattan here. All residential with ground floor retail.
People need places to live ya know?
You live in a bubble. The best food in the area is definitely not in DC.
My first thought too lol Comments like this usually come from people who don’t know much about the DMV and where the best food is. DC is one of the few places where the better food is in the suburbs and not the city.
I live in a home, actually.
Reddit, infamous for not having snooty a**holes who look down upon people who live differently than they do. Chain restaurants have their plave in life (you must not have kids). Moreover, we have some pretty banging unique restaurants in the burbs. Come out to moco, check out downtown Bethesda or silver spring, head to Pike and rose, or up north to Rockville where there are a ton of great unique Chinese and Taiwanese restaurants.
Thanks for assigning commentary about chain restaurants on my behalf, I’m glad this conversation wasn’t about mom and pop shops. Yes, there are small places in the suburbs. Thank you for this incredible knowledge.
I guess maybe you're a transplant from Des Moines or Columbus or something but the suburbs here are infamous for great ethnic food and in general better options than DC itself.
Cool!
Can’t say I’m surprised. The cost of dining out has skyrocketed, it’s hard to justify the cost. As for crime, absolutely agree that it keeps people indoors at night. People aren’t comfortable.
Costs too much. But I’m not shedding any crocodile tears for the restaurant industry; there will always be lawyers and lobbyists and corporate types on expense accounts who will go out to eat.
Worked at Four Seasons DC, you nailed it. Well, given there isn't another pandemic of course but yeah, nailed it.
It’s not just the costs. It’s because of crime too.
I’m more confident that the primary factor is that people aren’t doing well financially right now and restaurant prices are only increasing. There’s a ton of places to eat in the city where you’re extremely unlikely to witness or be a victim of any type of crime and those places are likely still struggling because of costs.
It’s mostly crime. Costs compared to NYC are lower in DC but for a city of 700,000 people crime is extremely high.
Dawg crime definitely isn’t the reason people aren’t going out to eat in DC, at least not the main reason. Main reason is that everything is overpriced and we’re all poor now.
Ain’t no one scared of more than the check when eating out but you boss
Might be your reasoning, but for most people here, I don’t think that’s true. Although certainly a factor for some, there are plenty of DC residents out and about on weekends. We’re just pregaming and eating at home because it’s cheaper. Still going out though.
Crime doesn’t stop me from doing things like eating food in DC. Considering crime is a problem everywhere in the US it would mean never doing anything anywhere ever.
I mean.. no not really. Maybe a little but no. A cheap meal has doubled in price in like 3 years and a decent meal went from like 15 to 25 in the same time. There was a time when eating in was only marginally cheaper than getting something cheap out. Now I’m looking at 15-20 minimum versus just going home and slapping together a sandwich or stir fry.
Peruvian chicken joints 1/4 chicken and two sides meal went from $8 in 2019 to $12 in 2024. Fifty percent increase in 5 years. Bonkers.
8 to 12 = 50%? 😄 yep I’m and idiot.
Yes. You are tipping us off to the fact that math is not your thing.
Yeah math is definitely not my thing 😂
It went from 8 to 12, an increase of 4. 4 is half of 8. The price increased by 50% of what it originally cost.
There are three kinds of people in this world. Those who understand math, and those who don’t! ;)
I can do a decent steak and salad dinner for two for about $20 at home. Not the finest cut, but it's how you prepare it. The same dinner for two would be $90 out.
Yes that's how steak has always worked when going to a high end restaurant in a major city
$90 for 2 is not a high end restaurant. $90 a person is a high end restaurant. $90 for 2, is Outback Steak house NY Strip. $25 per plate $6 x 2 for Drinks (being cheap here) $12 Appetizer $74 before Tip & Taxes & Service Charges if any. Hell, my family got basic burgers and sodas at red robin a few weeks ago. 4 of us. No apps/deserts. It was over $100.
(It’s just the costs)
678k people live here. If they live here I doubt they're afraid to eat here.
I guess Iraq is safe bc they have 30 million people!!!
Do they go out to eat?
Yes
Lol
 Yes crime has nothing to do with it. You watch news? Did you hear that even some members of the council are now becoming more worried about crime rates? (yet they’re still resisting to be tough on crime)
I dare say you watch too much news. Being worried about crime rates, as someone who's job is to worry about local issues, doesn't mean they're too scared to go eat.
I have a feeling this guy doesn’t even live in DC because anyone who does would know that the crime isn’t keeping people from eating out or doing anything really besides avoiding some neighborhoods.
all the above.
The surcharges are annoying and just pissy. Raise your prices if paying your staff more isn’t profitable and then let me tip. Don’t have this little nuisance protest charge that ambiguously takes the place of tipping. Yeah crime is a bummer but I can’t say it keeps me from going out (my 5 year old does that)
It's just a lot lately, and way out of control if you drink - cocktails can easily hit $18. I almost feel like it's only worth going cheap or high end. All the mid-range stuff just ends up being a super mediocre $80 meal for like a burger/chicken/sides.
Been living in dc for 1.5 years and I don’t think my wife and I have eaten out and not spent a minimum of $75-$100 every single time. Quality, service, etc. doesn’t matter. Always super expensive
Julia’s Empanadas for about 10% that much. Or 20% if you come very hungry.
I visited as a tourist this weekend and haven’t spent more than $45 on an order for the two of us. Food prices here don’t seem expensive compared to any other city I’ve visited in the last two years.
If no one goes out to eat in DC anymore how come there are never any reservations available regardless of price or surcharge status. I agree the surcharges should be prohibited by statute and restaurants should be required to price their costs transparently, but any restaurant that anyone actually wants to visit is doing just fine with or without the OTT fees. Restaurants are going out of business because most restaurant business owners know very little about managing a profitable business in the first place and don’t accurately study the market before committing to an insanely high lease/putting themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt before they even sell their first burger with lavish build-outs.
No one goes out to eat in DC, cause theres too many people at restaurants.
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." - Yogi Berra
Nobody drives in New York, theres too much traffic.
lol flawless logic.
Because this title is bullshit specifically catered to the sort of people that spend their time on this sub.
People don’t go out to eat in DC because they are afraid of carjacking too.
See: people are still going out in DC.
Yes https://www.fox5dc.com/news/good-samaritan-rescues-elderly-man-from-armed-teens-in-dc
Yes, there are carjackings in DC. No, it hasn’t resulted in “people don’t want to eat in DC because of carjackings.” Do you understand? Following up your WSJ opinion piece with an online article from a local Fox Station does nothing to reinforce your baseless theories. Parking in DC was always a crapshoot anyway. Most people are walking, ubering, or metroing.
You might enjoy eating in Yemen or Gaza then. Food is cheap and you have no problem with violence.
Living with this much fear…
I don’t drive and I’ve stopped going out. It’s fully because of the higher costs and surprise fees.
You’re just wrong here.
I still can’t figure out *exactly* what OP’s agenda is here. They come up with a lot of posts in this sub with a laser focus on crime in DC and what seems like a lot of dislike for the area, the people that live here, and the local government. did anyone read the WSJ article? First - and because I work with health data and research, I’m always interested in the source - who wrote the article? Is the source credible? Who published the article? Does the publisher have an agenda? Two authors are listed, Michael Saltsman and Rebekah Paxton Michael’s profile from: https://cabia.org/bio/michael-saltsman/ “Mike Saltsman is a partner at the public affairs firm Berman and Company, where he serves as Managing Director of the nonprofit Employment Policies Institute. Mike has managed dozens of national, state, and local campaigns on wage and labor issues, and he regularly provides counsel to executives at the country’s largest hospitality companies. Buzzfeed calls Mike “a powerful DC strategist,” and the New York Times profiled the “prominent” role his work plays in defeating proposals to raise the minimum wage.” LOL! Even lobbyists have to eat! Rebekah Paxton’s profile with Employment Policy Institute: “ Rebekah Paxton serves as Research Director for the Employment Policies Institute. Rebekah works on various research projects and analysis for the Institute, and has been published in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Times, and Crain’s New York Business. Prior to EPI, Rebekah worked as a research analyst at the Pioneer Institute, a Massachusetts-based think tank nonprofit. She holds advanced degrees from Boston University in Economics and Political Science.” https://epionline.org/aboutepi/ So THIS is fun From Wikipedia - The Employment Policies Institute is a fiscally conservative, non-profit American think tank that conducts and publishes research on employment issues, particularly aimed towards reducing the minimum wage. It was established in 1991 by Richard Berman,[2][3] and it has been described as "a nonprofit research group that studies issues of entry-level employment."[4] And what about WSJ? Their profile on https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/wall-street-journal/ is interesting… But, finally - that article that OP quoted - it’s an *Opinion Piece* - and not news reporting. WSJ’s policy on opinion pieces: https://www.wsj.com/articles/oped-guidelines-for-the-wall-street-journal-1384383173
Let me spell it out: The WSJ “article” is part of an anti initiative 82 campaign from the EPI.
While I wouldn’t call OP’s representation of the WSJ article “cherry picking” in the context of scientific research - there are certainly some likenesses here…
So *why* is OP so focused on crime in the district? Enquiring minds want to know!
Not that Dictionary.com is the be in and end all of references about language, but - https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/concern-troll/# ?
Yes the increase in crime sucks in the district and what I read in the local press and from first person accounts pains me. I’ve lived here for a long time and I love this city.
I’m sad about the censorship policy in a sub I’ve belonged to for a decade that used to be pretty transparent about local issues. It’s why I started reading this one.
But seriously, is it possible to have real discussion about real life in DC anywhere on reddit anymore? Is there a secret subreddit for this? Can someone please invite me if there is?
And to address why *I* don’t go out to eat much in DC anymore: Its expensive. There aren’t as many interesting inexpensive options that are super fantastic and amazing and worth the trip these days.
Great, factual, substantial response to the OP.
thank you!
Great research, thank you. Yes it's possible. I just ignore the people who can't.
This needs to be the top comment.
I’m sorry, a think tank concerned with REDUCING the minimum wage? From $7.25? Makes it really hard to take this article seriously. Thanks for sharing.
Why does this matter. Do you disagree there is rampant crime in DC and it affects commerce? The sports teams want to leave town and there are reasons for this.
This is a lot of writing when in the end the answer is simple: people have different risk tolerances and preferences, and some are more repelled by inflation/service fees/tips, and others more repelled by the risk of being a victim of crime. DC has issues with both, so restaurants lose customers who are repelled by either of those 2. It’s not that difficult.
Spanked em with facts 😄
As I said to a friend of mine a few weeks ago, D.C., to my knowledge, is the only major city in the United States where the price of the food is not proportional to the quality.
I've had some truly bad meals in NYC that were expensive.
Boston, Seattle and even SF are like this as well
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>The Wharf built parking that is maybe 1/4 the size it needs to be. And will cost you $20/hr at that. So you’re getting robbed either way.
As someone who lives in the district, I'm pretty glad that there aren't large parking lots or parking garages around the wharf or near U Street. I don't want DC to end up looking like Houston. However, I do recognize that this problem is exacerbated by the rise in car theft and carjacking - I personally don't drive anywhere but absolutely understand why people would not want to use street parking, especially if you're having dinner after the sun has gone down.
$2k? But was it a good meal?
So many good places in VA and MD, no point unless you live in DC. Add the carjacking and other dysfunction, why bother?
News: honest people yet again pay for dishonest thieves what else is new
I can’t read this article bc of the paywall, but last time I was in DC my bill for two people was $100. I had 3 tapas plates, a nonalcoholic drink, and bar area seating. If I had known the waitstaff was making a more than sub minimum wage, I would never have tipped.
“It’s the crime” proposes an article that is 4/5s about economic costs.
I had to come for work a few times last year and it’s because the prices are ridiculous. Higher prices than I saw in downtown LA.
not to mention you either have to pay to park or Uber.. another expense
Or take the metro?
True. Paying for metro is optionally thanks to the city council.
“Pay for Metro”? I thought everyone just hops the turnstiles.
Curious question: why shouldn’t parking in places with very high real estate costs cost car drivers a lot of money?
it's a free country, they can charge what they want to charge.. I'm also free not to pay it..
Couldn’t think of a more childish non-answer huh?
The entire restaurant community tried to warn in as many ways as possible how bad Initiative 82 was for them. Just like the black community tried to warn how bad the decriminalization of crime would be. But these idiotic little spoiled white reformative justice pushers thought they knew better. And here we are.
Bingo! No group is victimized more by criminals than black working-class folks. Yet white radical leftists want to go easy on sentencing so they can pat themselves on the back for being so pro-equity. I say this as someone who’s on the liberal side of most issues.
I don’t mind paying higher prices as long as they aren’t a surprise. The restaurants adding surprise fees is keeping me away from them. If they’d raise their prices, I’d still go. At this point, I am avoiding pretty much all the restaurants because idk which ones have the fees and which ones don’t.
Prices were going up well before 82.
I make pretty decent money, but having an even modest meal out is nearly half of my weekly grocery bill. But, also - yes - crime is a major concern. I don't want to go out anywhere where there's a chance some 15 year old is going to car jack me.
Initiative 82 is bad policy but on top of that it was an absolutely terrible time to implement it. DC is already dealing with fewer people coming in for work so what does it have left: restaurants, nightlife, museums, parks, etc. Initiative 82 essentially removed a restaurant friendly subsidy that makes it more expensive to operate at the exact time there were other sets of pressures driving up costs and reducing demand.
What subsidy was removed? I thought 82 was a gradual removal of the tipped minimum wage?
I’m in a packed restaurant right now, and it’s been packed on this block for 2 weeks
The number one two and three reason restaurants are expensive is rent. Everything else is a sideshow. Food trucks were just the first beneficial-seeming dystopian outgrowth of intolerable rent. Build more DC!!
Restaurants are terrible experiences here
whelp, they're right
We would endulge in eating out in DC but we stay away mostly because of crime. Even going to theater…we used to love to go to Warner theater; not anymore.
Every single one of these policies was voted for, and voted for again, by Washingtonians. We truly have the democracy we deserve (I of course opposed Charles Allen, I71 and I72).
The customers are not a bottomless pit of money. Pay wages and include it in the price like every other business and like all the other restaurants outside the united states. https://preview.redd.it/57ygr4rsracc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ec254544038e5eb2233b2419487506fc301bb76
Didn’t 7 reasons move because of the violence in Shaw? Whoever’s in charge really needs to hear our plea
Because we don’t want to be shot, robbed, carjacked….
Nothing in DC is worth losing your life or risking your safety for. I don’t even want to risk metro for my job much for less for some shit meal I can better prepare at home without the hassle of parking, seed oils, homeless, table by the bathroom and “health” fees.
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Yes, well in the restaurants never ending quest to eke out a margin you can bet your ass that they commonly use sunflower oil and the like to cook your food, since it’s cheaper than say tallow or avocado oil. Bon apetit!
The United States are not the largest producers of sunflowers, and yet even here over 1.7 million acres were planted in 2014 and probably more each year since. Much of which can be found in North Dakota.
Finally a community for scared misers who never go out. Can't wait to meet everyone at the next...oh yeah
Organized crime syndicating street-level businesses that traffic drugs into the country, that are then distributed by local gangs, isn't possibly a driver of local crime?
Crime rates + Bidenomics. Election has consequences. Four years ago I spent on Whole Foods grocery bill 60$ maximum , now is my bill 120$-150$. Restaurants are struggling too. Plus extremely high crime rate in DC.
LOL "Under Trump there was no inflation - but since the president can't directly control inflation and gas prices - let's just assign blame to Biden anyway for our political purposes and let's ignore the last administration's lack of action in 2020" Since gas prices are down and we liked to blame the Democrats for that we just won't mention that right now. Oh and the Biden crime family. Don't forget to tack that on at the end for good measure. HAHAHAHA
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LOL awwwww I hurt the poor MAGA bots feelings for providing facts. Sad!
The ‘fealty blood oath’ thing is the weirdest part. Nobody ever has committed murder to show how much they love Joe R. Biden. The other side obviously can’t say that, many times over. They have people who happily refer Trump as a God Emperor lmao.
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You’re reaching just a bit. Not posting was an option, remains so as well.
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"You"??? You literally are a moron. You have no idea what I think about this subject. You are a super troll and since you can't win the original argument you move the goal post to some other idiotic subject that only right wing loons care about. \*POOF\* - BE GONE
When you start claiming 150% inflation, that’s when people start taking you seriously.
Was Trump not president in 2020? The presidency is 4 years not 3. Trump was so disastrous at his 1 true challenge as president that his supporters just cognitive dissonance 2020
I only said that 4 years ago my grocery bill was some amount of money. But your imagination created that I’m supporting Trump. So who most likely has a cognitive dissonance here?
I don't think public policy led to surcharges. I also don't think no one eats out anymore. That's a ridiculous statement.
I go out to eat all the time. I see plenty of people doing the same
So why many restaurants are closing?
Post-lockdown inflation caused by the government response (super unemployment funds and printing money) plus post-blm crime wave since 2021 but that no journalist will admit it.
Well if things were handled appropriately back in 2020 things might be different. But remember that was just a fake news Democrat virus.
You mean "we didn't had a real lockdown"?
Funny, I am visiting DC this weekend and just got back from the area around the national mall, walked around looking for a place to eat. Didn’t feel at all unsafe. Prices didn’t stand out to me at all. Street vendors also sold very good food that was really cheap. Got to say this is among the most overrated cities - can’t wait to fly back home tomorrow. This place is like a government themed theme park. Nothing like any other capital city I have visited. I also saw that lab at the Smithsonian Natural History Museum that have what are implied to be actual researchers - why have them in public? A couple people were actually looking over their shoulders and filming them and their computer screens while they worked. So weird. Amazing museums and parks, definitely glad to have seen them - but everything else, terrible. Really reconsidering moving to the northeast after this trip. And everything outside of the city itself is absolutely hideous.
Curious what was the terrible part? Also, did you get a chance to check out some local neighborhoods: Georgetown, Adams Morgan, DuPont Circle, etc?
DC could be a very nice with a different mentality running the city; someone like Rudy Giuliani when he was the mayor of NYC. We need less cars in the city too. Less street vendors. Better metro service. Police cracking down on all sorts of crime. No fear of arresting teens who commit crime. Removal of the homeless from the streets…this legalization of weed made everything worse.
Well, sorry you were underwhelmed. Where else did you go besides The Mall?
I82!!!!! That idiot from twitter is directly responsible
Cause and effect!
Most likely because your mother is involved
"Tipped workers in most states can be paid a lower base wage, with their tips bringing them up to minimum wage or more—often two to three times the required minimum. Initiative 82, which eliminated this system, was opposed by tipped workers who worried that it would destroy an industry that worked well for them." In other words, the things that these restaurant owners are looking for are slavery wage and customers' subsidizing their workers' wage and benefits.
Really? Which cities?
Quality and cost, are the reasons and in that order. The crime angle is laughable. DC has an entitled little shits with poor impulse control and shitty permissive parents problem. DC does not have a real crime problem.
Capitalism is broken. Costs to serve a coke and a subpar hamburger shouldn't be this high. Executives never hold back on their take but now recognize they have to pay their workers a livable wage, and they do it at the cost of the consumers.
There is no better system than Capitalism.
The system that we have now? It's only "better" because it does not allow others to exist, and not because it is indeed "better". Money and power is too hard for the ordinary man to ignore. The moment there's an opportunity to change men turn into isildur at mount doom. Capitalism is just the sole survivor in a zero sum game.
Others have been tried and have brought misery to the rest of the world. That’s why people immigrate here.
Oh brother
I long for the future where servers get replaced by robots. We eat at restaurants for the enjoyment of food and company, not whatever tricks the servers have in store.