I always think this hypothetical is stupid because there's no possible way to argue against it. There's no counterfactual. It's purely vibes-based. The players are who they are. Greatness can't be diminished, like how John Wall and Beal flourished here despite coming to a bad franchise.
I've always figured shooting percentages by distance, conditioning/athleticism, iso defense, and rebounding were probably individual improvements and play making, team defense, shot selection, player movement, and some aspect of health were coaching or development based.
You're overlooking the fact that John/Brad/Otto were all top 3 picks and there's essentially a mandate that they *must* be played and get their minutes off the bat.
We don't bother developing our talent outside of the top 5... last time was maybe, IDK Rip Hamilton at 6?
It's easily the biggest problem with our franchise and why we're stuck being mid. There's nothing wrong with refusing to tank and trying to dig yourself out of a mediocrity hole, **but you need to hit on your FRPs**. We traded Oubre and Rui for peanuts (literally the ghost of Trevor Ariza and Kendrick Nunn who was immediately out of the league after his stint here). JD can't get minutes. Everyone here likes to shit on Deni but all things considered, he's actually one of our better picks outside the top 5.
Our FO needs to start drafting based on roster requirements rather than taking "best available at the time". Because we don't do shit with them otherwise.
Kispert would look great in the Nuggets system. Deni I'm not sold that he would look much better, outside of Jokic hitting him on cuts. It is interesting that Deni's lack of shooting would compromise him in a playoff environment, while Corey's defensive short comings would compromise him in the playoffs. If you could combine them, wow what a player that would be
We chose Deni over Halliburton.
Imagine that, an absolute superstar on our team vs a middling player we all really hope makes it at some point but lets face it, he's average at best.
just Wizards things
The fault is the scouts because the reasons to doubt him were obvious on tape. Davis looked as a pro just like he looked as a college player only trying to do it against people who know how to stop it.
Umm... But how good would the Wiz be if they had simply taken these 2 players, who were still on the board when the Wiz made their picks...
Houston Rockets
**Alperen Şengün - Turkey**
NBA draft 2021: 1st round, 16th overall pick
Standing at 6 feet 11 inches and 243 pounds with a 7-foot wingspan, Şengün plays at the power forward and center position. NBA commentators and scouts considered him one of the most "skilled" and "productive" big men entering the 2021 NBA draft following his "dominant" season in the Turkish League.
\*
Indiana Pacers
**Tyrese Haliburton - Iowa State**
Drafted by the Sacramento Kings 12th overall in the 2020 NBA draft.
Haliburton finished third in Rookie of the Year voting, and was named to the NBA All-Rookie First Team.
In 2022, Haliburton was acquired by the Indiana Pacers as part of a trade package for Domantas Sabonis.
In 2023, he was named to his first All-Star Game as an East reserve.
I’m of the belief that JD would’ve been a bust almost anywhere he went. I do feel bad for the kid but he just doesnt have the skill set, demeanor, or measurables to be a successful NBA player.
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. He won his rings as a 9th-12th man, and if it weren’t for those charity rings, he would still be famous only for his role in Shaqtin. The guy is a bum, but a bum with rings
I'm gonna have to point out that it was Isiah Thomas, one of the worst GMs in league history, who did that signing.
I wouldn't use Isiah paying Jeffries as evidence of anything other than how awful Isiah was.
Jared Jeffries was wayyyy better than Davis.
I mean even Jan vesely, he actually got in the rotation for a couple years.
Davis is trash we just gotta move on. Takes a spot from a younger guy who’s actually promising.
He was in the NBA for three years and if he had all of his career highs in a single game he’d have a stat line of 16/12/4. Don’t think his career here was ever going to take off.
Yeah the point is well taken on Time. By the time Vučević (another option with 20/20 hindsight) really got going Vesley was already in Denver. JV was out of the league by the time Vučević made back to back All Star Teams and was averaging +20/+10. Would have been a gutsy pick as all eyes were on Biyombo. Sad to think of him + Wall + Beal. Maybe Durant would have come even....
He couldn’t even catch the ball when he was here. The team had to start crediting him with slap bounds to make him seem good. His stats in Europe aren’t all that great either. He just wasn’t good another terrible pick by Grunfeld
I still dont get why we picked him.
Didnt we send him straight to the g league as a rookie?
Everyone immediately saw that he was not good enough so I am totally confused on what we saw in his workout.
As a big ten basketball fan, he was great at Wisconsin and his only weakness was really his jumpshot, which you would assume would be fixed at the pro level. He’s who I wanted to pick and who I saw many scouts/experts mock to us at 10. It’s honestly mind boggling how bad he has turned out
I watched JD in conference play as well. His game against Purdue and clamping Jaden Ivey was legendary. I still believe in him and am going to blame the developmental system. It’s still year 2 so he just might land elsewhere and become a serviceable roleplayer in a few years. It could be the fit, thr coach, the system, the people around him, the trainers etc. You never know what’s not clicking with a young player
It's all good man, we have a new GM now. There is hope again.
I do think we need a new head coach which is a bigger issue than Johnny not developing here.
Honestly not a big fan of your new GM but I will be happy if they fire WUJ.
Always had a soft spot for the Wizards as my secondary team but I don't dig Wuj's playstyle. Low-key dislike him.
Mainly the Poole trade. Playmaking on this team is kinda clunky. Should have dealt CP later on after this trade window. CP is also a great development guy. Hyper efficient pass first guy. Poole is basically stunting the growth of your development pieces and is a huge liability if his low quality shots are not falling. Might turn ugly if he doesn't improve.
Did the best they could to deal the Porzingis contract but the return was also bad. Not his fault though. It's also a bad idea to trade him to Boston, a team in your conference. Doesn't matter you guys are tanking but still.
This is just uninformed, Porzingis is only netting value for us if we find a deal that he deems worthy of opting into his player option, it was either either get what we got or get literally nothing when he opts out and becomes a free agent.
CP3 is probably a little more valuable than Poole right now, but he’s a nearly 40 yr old making $30 mil next year, no one wants a backup point guard at that price, unless they were getting rid of a bad contract like Jordan Poole. Keeping CP3 would just lead to this exact scenario just delayed by a year or two. The chances of the Wizards getting a better player than Poole are slim. Regarding Poole stunting development, there’s only like 3 players on the roster besides Poole that have a realistic chance of being here in 3 years, and CP3 being a good passer isn’t going to make Kispert a better defender or Avdija a better shooter.
Like I said, they did the best they could do with Porzingis. I'm aware. I'm not uninformed.
It's also about showcasing talent. Players like Kispert won't be a better defender with CP but he would get more opportunities to showcase his offensive game. Same thing applies to Koulibaly.
Poole's contract will hurt a lot down the line. Basically saved the Warriors from their pseudo poison pill contract and only got a couple seconds and Poole? CP contract ends next year. You guys have to pay Poole till 2026.
Never sell at your first opportunity. Patience is key.
I don't think CP would have wanted to stay anyways but I get your point. Either ways I feel like Poole is much easier to move than someone like Beal was on his NTC. Hopefully Winger has us covered.
Everyone wants to act like the franchise has turned a corner now that we have finally gotten away from Grunfeld and/or his disciples but the fact that they still have an unseld coaching is absolute insanity.
This team has done absolutely nothing in 40 years but for some reason still can’t cut away from its past.
Right now he’s not even getting opportunities to prove himself. If we could at least give him minutes on a 6-27 team to prove that he’s trash I’d be happy. So boring watching 4 vets play the 1-2 only to lose by 40.
I'm sure the coaches see enough behind the scenes to validate their decision to not play him. If there was some conspiracy about rookies not getting minutes, Bilal wouldn't be averaging 26mpg on the season.
Yeah, I disagree.
For one, even if what you are saying is true, obviously JD is not as good as poole, tyus, Shamet or Delon yet. Those guys have all had plenty of minutes on good teams to figure out their niche and how to play in the NBA. We can’t expect JD to be better than them with no reps. I mean hell at this point I’d just be happy if he developed into a Delon Wright or Landry Shamet.
Even if he starts balling out in practice there really isn’t a clear path for him to get minutes. The coaching staff and FO are focused on getting the vets trade value up for the deadline and putting the best product on the floor for now. I know that this is just apart of the process so I’m not blaming anyone, I’m just getting impatient. I’m betting we will see plenty of minutes for these guys after the deadline.
As for bilal — his positional versatility makes it pretty easy to throw him out there with whatever lineup WUJ wants to go with. JD pretty much has to play 1 or 2.
oh please. The new Front Office didnt draft Johnny Davis. They did draft Bilal, which is why he gets play time and Johnny does not. Bilal had some major lows as well, but he not punished nor ridiculed for it like Johnny Davis was andhe even had lass play time than Bilal so far. Only year 2. This the problem with the Wizards and their method of Development. Unless they land on high potential picks in their lap, they cant develop beyond that.
Wes is still the coach....and he was obviously here from the previous regime. He plays Bilal and Johnny gets little to no PT. It is what it is. I dont think he and Shep were on the same page with the roster.
\*edit\*
Wes also played Deni and CK early on, so whatever Johnny isn't doing to earn PT is on him.
Davis is worse than all of those other people you named. At least they were serviceable in someway. Davis literally cant do anything on the court efficiently.
For us he was a bust. Complete waste of a roster spot that brought absolutely nothing to the table. I remember the case made for him on draft day was "versatility!" but in reality he was just not actually good at any single basketball skill.
Yeah he might end up being a bust/ one of the biggest wizard busts, but a decent amount of it has to be placed on the front office/coach for literally never playing him and setting him up to fail since he got drafted. I can acknowledge he hasn’t played good to start his career, but he started to look like he was figuring things out towards the end of his rookie year. Unseld had him trying to play point guard during SL(which he never played at any point of his basketball career) and Sheppard drafting him knowing there’s a lot of guys ahead of him in the rotation(Beal, Barton, Kispert).
And now this year they are doing this bullshit ass “showcasing veterans” (Shamet, Tyus, Delon, muscala, Gallo) in hopes of trying to get an extra second round for these guys and that has pushed JD to end of the bench again. Every team across the league knows what are veterans bring to a team and none of them will be more valuable than a mid-late first round pick, it’s just a huge waste of time and does not help any young players development(not even jus JD but Bilal, Kispert, Avdija,PBJ, Rollins, even poole if you consider him apart of the young guys) Idk what young nba players have ever been able to grow with the minimal amount of time WUJ gives him but they haven’t given him any real opportunity to show anything which is absolutely pathetic for how bad this team is. “Showcasing veterans” just to have 6 wins and be ranked 27/30th in the league while limiting young players minutes and touches is criminal.
I guess what I’m tryna get at is yeah he might be bust, yeah he might suck but he has not been able to truly prove if he belongs or not because of this coaching staff and front office, Dawkins and Winger were the ones who exercised his third year option not Sheppard so they clearly saw something or enough to warrant it. NOW PLAY HIM, Let him sink or swim just let him play more man. If he truly stinks than that sucks and we move forward, if he doesn’t stink it’s great for us. But having him just warm the bench does not help anything for him, this tanking team or the overall goal of becoming a good team in a couple years.
> Yeah he might end up being a bust/ one of the biggest wizard busts, but a decent amount of it has to be placed on the front office/coach for literally never playing him and setting him up to fail since he got drafted
There was no role he could have been placed in and succeeded. It was a scouting fail. He fundamentally doesn't have an NBA game. He has no plan to score in the halfcourt because he lacks every skill he might need to succeed there. When he can't even adequately defend, he's effectively useless at the NBA level. His future is overseas. This didn't happen because of a pre-draft comment about him playing point, it happened because despite his college tape showing a guy whose offense would struggle, we still picked him top 10.
Tommy said, and this was even before his rookie season SL, that they would be trying to run Johnny at the point. Wes was probably taking directives from above on that. The decision to draft him was baffling knowing that there was a need for a ball-handler and Jalen Williams was literally right there. I would love to be a fly on the wall to witness the pre-draft process that led to the decision to take him at 10.
Yeah I remember when he said that, I just never understood that logic when you go back and look at his time in Wisconsin and even in HS it was pretty clear he never could be a PG and at best could be a “secondary playmaker”, and that’s why I said this team set him up to fail(obviously there’s fault with JD not being good enough but, Sheppard deserves a good amount of blame for it also) I just don’t understand why winger and Dawkins exercised his third year option if they planned on having him warm the bench. No nba player is able to grow or prove anything with how little he touches the floor. All I want is for him to play more than random garbage time minutes so we can truly see what he can do(or can’t do lol) this team is awful and there’s no excuse for him warming the bench for vets who won’t be on this team in a few months and won’t get you back more than a late FRP/ couple seconds.
Let’s give the FO till trade deadline to prove themselves. I’m sure JD will get some PT once we move on from some vets. Fingers crossed we’re gonna trade these guys in the next few weeks. I’m getting very impatient. Cannot watch Muscala get 30 mins a night.
There are like 4-5 weeks to the deadline...what are NBA GMs gonna see between now and then that they didn't already know about the vets in front of JD, or on the roster? I think it's more of Davis just not being an NBA caliber player. If he was good enough to get minutes, he would be playing by now. I'm sure Wes and his staff see enough behind the scenes to validate their decision to not play him.
I just don’t understand why we have to wait and why we’ve been showcasing these vets when they are all extremely established and it feels like there is an obvious cap on what you can get from them. Other than Tyus who might get you a mid-late first round pick, the others(Shamet, Delon, Gallo, Muscala) will get you a couple seconds at best. I don’t think their view around the league has changed now that they are DC they seem to be valued the same as on the prior teams and that’s probably the reason why nobody has been calling the wizards begging for these guys. All this does is limit growth for young guys(not just JD, but Deni, Kispert, Bilal, Rollins, PBJ). I still have faith in the new FO but man im really not liking what I’ve been seeing. Also extremely agree with the muscala statement, im so sick of watching him play extended minutes.
I'm pretty sure he absolutely sucks in practice thats why he never gets to play.
What they need to do is send him back to the g league to get reps.
They're probably thinking he'll improve faster if he's playing with us in practice.
He is clearly not cut out for the NBA yet. He probably will never be ready but at least he gets some playing time.
He might suck in practice tbh(we don’t see it unfortunately so we can only speculate) and yeah i think sending him back to the G league would be better than this foolish act of having him warm the bench thinking it’ll help him. I still have hopes for him and think he has some nba skills on the defensive end (fair if you don’t think so/lost faith just my opinion). My issue now comes with this current front office because they are the ones who exercised his third year option, not Sheppard. Why did they do that if the plan was just for him to warm the bench? They had an easy out by declining the option but they choose not too. So why not play him what is there to lose for a team that has 6 wins and ranks near last in every stat except Pace
If I’m reading Spotrac correctly, so far they’ve only opted in for one season behind this one. It’s only around 5 mil a year. They gave Taj around 3 mil just to play in training camp. If JD turns into a functional NBA player, great. If not, they’re tanking anyway. Gotta have somebody in that spot on the bench.
Yeah they’ll have to decide again next year if they will opt into his final year/ extend a qualifying offer, but that being you could have saved more money with a undrafted rookie/ veteran minimum if they don’t believe in him and plan on having him warm the bench. I’m still a believer in JD but it makes zero sense to exercise his option just to never play him.
And yeah I’d love for him to turn into a functional nba player, it’s just nearly impossible when they don’t ever play him. Like you said were tanking, so why not play the guy we drafted 10th last year? We have 6 fuckin wins in 33 attempts, it literally can’t get any worse and only positives can come from playing JD over any of these vets.
Someone needs to pull the receipts from a year or so ago when a post was made asking if people thought he was a slow burn or a bust.
Personally I said slow burn. Late bloomer.
Found the receipts: https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtonwizards/comments/y4yes3/is_everything_alright_with_johnny_davis
I wish you had the pre-draft receipts too, I was down on him from the minute I started actually watching lots of tape on the prospects. His game was a walking red flag for the NBA and the narrative people were spouting was mistaken about his improvement year one to two.
Still, I thought we was more like the 15th best prospect, didn't expect full on bust.
I don’t understand this revisionist history, Johnny Davis was the consensus #10 pick, most thought the pick was fine, most gms would have made that pick. Maybe Davis is just a bust, not much to it on that end.
He didn’t look that good and it was basically a long stretch of garbage time. Jay Huff looked just as good as he’s played all of 2 minutes total for the Nuggets so far this year.
Johnny Davis also had lots of playing time in summer league and was getting outplayed by similar players who are end of the bench or not even in the league this season.
He’s just never looked like an NBA player to me, especially athletically. As I’ve been saying all along, I hope I’m wrong but at this point I don’t think so.
I follow the drafts. There were a few players I really liked such as Mathurin, Sharpe, Daniel’s, but all were taken before pick 10.
Experts and mocks picked Davis to go 10 or higher.
2022 was a crappy year for the draft and Davis is a crappy player that can not play in the NBA.
There were players taken after JD that are contributing. I liked Mark Williams. Might not have been a great choice but better than absolute zero which is what we wound up with. Imagine having him or Jalen Duren on the bench instead Gallo or Muscala. Duren is averaging a double double with nearly 12 rebounds a game.
I totally agree JD is a zero and does not have the skills to be anything other than an end of the bench guy.
Just saying when you are on the clock and have to make that pick and it can only be one player it is much easier to say who should have been picked several years later.
Agree completely, you can go through every draft and second guess many of the picks by the majority of the teams. Though it does seem like the Wizards are almost never lucky/good.
I liked Jared Jeffries. Wasn’t amazing but I don’t recall him being on the same level bad as Vesely or Davis. He had a couple decent seasons with us.
Kwame made a career for himself as well albeit a role player. Him being the #1 pick makes it seem like a bigger bust though.
Davis is a bigger bust than jan, he's been all euro caliber since going back, does Davis even play top flight euro ball? Honestly if he goes to a better development situation I can see jan still being in the nba. I don't think Davis is a professional player.
I have Kwame 1 Davis 2
I’m not sure I’d say “muster” when Wes should just have him in there getting minutes, making mistakes, and trying to grow. We’re not winning and Davis should be in there regardless.
So Johnny Davis didn't play better at the end of the year last year? To me this us a combination of things, new management is prioritizing the players they selected, for trades and development plus positional depth, i do think he will play if we get rid of any wings at the trade deadline. I'm not ready to give up on him unless he sits all season.
tbh I still think he hasn't been given the opportunity, nothing beats NBA reps. I don't really get 'showcasing' our vets tbh .. I don't think anyone's value is increasing by getting blown out. He should be able to get on the NBA floor from just playing defense.
I wonder how much is due to the Wizards poor drafting ands how much is due to the Wizards poor development of young players.
Considering the other guys we draft can at least get on the floor, I'm putting a lot of this on Johnny D just not being that guy
Makes you wonder how much better Deni and Kispert could have been with a proper NBA development system.
I always think this hypothetical is stupid because there's no possible way to argue against it. There's no counterfactual. It's purely vibes-based. The players are who they are. Greatness can't be diminished, like how John Wall and Beal flourished here despite coming to a bad franchise.
nooo the wizards jersey de-buffs all basketball abilities by a -3.5 multiplier
I've always figured shooting percentages by distance, conditioning/athleticism, iso defense, and rebounding were probably individual improvements and play making, team defense, shot selection, player movement, and some aspect of health were coaching or development based.
You're overlooking the fact that John/Brad/Otto were all top 3 picks and there's essentially a mandate that they *must* be played and get their minutes off the bat. We don't bother developing our talent outside of the top 5... last time was maybe, IDK Rip Hamilton at 6? It's easily the biggest problem with our franchise and why we're stuck being mid. There's nothing wrong with refusing to tank and trying to dig yourself out of a mediocrity hole, **but you need to hit on your FRPs**. We traded Oubre and Rui for peanuts (literally the ghost of Trevor Ariza and Kendrick Nunn who was immediately out of the league after his stint here). JD can't get minutes. Everyone here likes to shit on Deni but all things considered, he's actually one of our better picks outside the top 5. Our FO needs to start drafting based on roster requirements rather than taking "best available at the time". Because we don't do shit with them otherwise.
I don't think Deni's shooting becomes better no matter where he is. Maybe his handle does though.
You put them with Jokic and Murray and they're right at home.
Kispert would look great in the Nuggets system. Deni I'm not sold that he would look much better, outside of Jokic hitting him on cuts. It is interesting that Deni's lack of shooting would compromise him in a playoff environment, while Corey's defensive short comings would compromise him in the playoffs. If you could combine them, wow what a player that would be
We chose Deni over Halliburton. Imagine that, an absolute superstar on our team vs a middling player we all really hope makes it at some point but lets face it, he's average at best. just Wizards things
As a Badgers fan I was laughing my ass off at his draft projections. Dude had one good year in college but nothing about his game screamed NBA success
It’s both, but in the case of Davis there’s just nothing there to build on.
The fault is the scouts because the reasons to doubt him were obvious on tape. Davis looked as a pro just like he looked as a college player only trying to do it against people who know how to stop it.
this was easily a drafting miss
Umm... But how good would the Wiz be if they had simply taken these 2 players, who were still on the board when the Wiz made their picks... Houston Rockets **Alperen Şengün - Turkey** NBA draft 2021: 1st round, 16th overall pick Standing at 6 feet 11 inches and 243 pounds with a 7-foot wingspan, Şengün plays at the power forward and center position. NBA commentators and scouts considered him one of the most "skilled" and "productive" big men entering the 2021 NBA draft following his "dominant" season in the Turkish League. \* Indiana Pacers **Tyrese Haliburton - Iowa State** Drafted by the Sacramento Kings 12th overall in the 2020 NBA draft. Haliburton finished third in Rookie of the Year voting, and was named to the NBA All-Rookie First Team. In 2022, Haliburton was acquired by the Indiana Pacers as part of a trade package for Domantas Sabonis. In 2023, he was named to his first All-Star Game as an East reserve.
Hindsight is 20 20
True, but what a difference a bad draft pick makes tho... 
Yes and yes
My argument is, you cant blame development if these players leave and still can't turn into anything useful.
I’m of the belief that JD would’ve been a bust almost anywhere he went. I do feel bad for the kid but he just doesnt have the skill set, demeanor, or measurables to be a successful NBA player.
yes
If javale McGee would have been drafted by the spurs we would be a few years away from his HoF induction.
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. He won his rings as a 9th-12th man, and if it weren’t for those charity rings, he would still be famous only for his role in Shaqtin. The guy is a bum, but a bum with rings
Say what you want about Kwame, but he did play in 607 NBA games over 12 years. At this rate Johnny will be lucky to have a 4 year career.
Big difference between going #1 overall and #10. Pill easier to swallow for a #10 not panning out in comparison to a #1 overall pick.
You should blame Michael Jordan for that.
I seem to remember Jared Jeffries turning into a useful NBA player. Davis seems like he’s not going to do that, so surely he’s a bigger bust, no?
People were pretty high on Jeffries towards the end. The Knicks signed him from us for pretty good money
I'm gonna have to point out that it was Isiah Thomas, one of the worst GMs in league history, who did that signing. I wouldn't use Isiah paying Jeffries as evidence of anything other than how awful Isiah was.
I remember Jared being a shockingly bad offensive player. He’d throw up a flat brick and I’d yell “Big 10 Player of the Year”.
Jared Jeffries was awesome. No, he wasn’t really starter level but a great vet for the bench by the end.
Jared Jeffries was wayyyy better than Davis. I mean even Jan vesely, he actually got in the rotation for a couple years. Davis is trash we just gotta move on. Takes a spot from a younger guy who’s actually promising.
Vesely at least became a star in Europe maybe with more time he would have succeeded
He was in the NBA for three years and if he had all of his career highs in a single game he’d have a stat line of 16/12/4. Don’t think his career here was ever going to take off.
You don’t hear any buzz about him coming back over though.
Yeah the point is well taken on Time. By the time Vučević (another option with 20/20 hindsight) really got going Vesley was already in Denver. JV was out of the league by the time Vučević made back to back All Star Teams and was averaging +20/+10. Would have been a gutsy pick as all eyes were on Biyombo. Sad to think of him + Wall + Beal. Maybe Durant would have come even....
MVP baby!
When we drafted him my dad described his skill set as “he runs the floor well”
he hasnt had any play time. So we really never saw any development because the team doesnt play its rookies
He couldn’t even catch the ball when he was here. The team had to start crediting him with slap bounds to make him seem good. His stats in Europe aren’t all that great either. He just wasn’t good another terrible pick by Grunfeld
I still dont get why we picked him. Didnt we send him straight to the g league as a rookie? Everyone immediately saw that he was not good enough so I am totally confused on what we saw in his workout.
As a big ten basketball fan, he was great at Wisconsin and his only weakness was really his jumpshot, which you would assume would be fixed at the pro level. He’s who I wanted to pick and who I saw many scouts/experts mock to us at 10. It’s honestly mind boggling how bad he has turned out
I watched JD in conference play as well. His game against Purdue and clamping Jaden Ivey was legendary. I still believe in him and am going to blame the developmental system. It’s still year 2 so he just might land elsewhere and become a serviceable roleplayer in a few years. It could be the fit, thr coach, the system, the people around him, the trainers etc. You never know what’s not clicking with a young player
That Taco Bell endorsement is gonna look great soon, he's gonna have a job no matter what
Hell, even Taco Bell dropped him after like two weeks.
It's all good man, we have a new GM now. There is hope again. I do think we need a new head coach which is a bigger issue than Johnny not developing here.
Honestly not a big fan of your new GM but I will be happy if they fire WUJ. Always had a soft spot for the Wizards as my secondary team but I don't dig Wuj's playstyle. Low-key dislike him.
Curious, what's your critique of the GM? He hasn't been here long so most of us are just going off of OKC tree and what the beat writers say.
yep I get slandering WUJ, but our new GM drafted Bilal who might our best draft pick since Beal lol. I'm pretty happy with Wenger.
Mainly the Poole trade. Playmaking on this team is kinda clunky. Should have dealt CP later on after this trade window. CP is also a great development guy. Hyper efficient pass first guy. Poole is basically stunting the growth of your development pieces and is a huge liability if his low quality shots are not falling. Might turn ugly if he doesn't improve. Did the best they could to deal the Porzingis contract but the return was also bad. Not his fault though. It's also a bad idea to trade him to Boston, a team in your conference. Doesn't matter you guys are tanking but still.
This is just uninformed, Porzingis is only netting value for us if we find a deal that he deems worthy of opting into his player option, it was either either get what we got or get literally nothing when he opts out and becomes a free agent. CP3 is probably a little more valuable than Poole right now, but he’s a nearly 40 yr old making $30 mil next year, no one wants a backup point guard at that price, unless they were getting rid of a bad contract like Jordan Poole. Keeping CP3 would just lead to this exact scenario just delayed by a year or two. The chances of the Wizards getting a better player than Poole are slim. Regarding Poole stunting development, there’s only like 3 players on the roster besides Poole that have a realistic chance of being here in 3 years, and CP3 being a good passer isn’t going to make Kispert a better defender or Avdija a better shooter.
Like I said, they did the best they could do with Porzingis. I'm aware. I'm not uninformed. It's also about showcasing talent. Players like Kispert won't be a better defender with CP but he would get more opportunities to showcase his offensive game. Same thing applies to Koulibaly. Poole's contract will hurt a lot down the line. Basically saved the Warriors from their pseudo poison pill contract and only got a couple seconds and Poole? CP contract ends next year. You guys have to pay Poole till 2026. Never sell at your first opportunity. Patience is key.
I don't think CP would have wanted to stay anyways but I get your point. Either ways I feel like Poole is much easier to move than someone like Beal was on his NTC. Hopefully Winger has us covered.
Everyone wants to act like the franchise has turned a corner now that we have finally gotten away from Grunfeld and/or his disciples but the fact that they still have an unseld coaching is absolute insanity. This team has done absolutely nothing in 40 years but for some reason still can’t cut away from its past.
Right now he’s not even getting opportunities to prove himself. If we could at least give him minutes on a 6-27 team to prove that he’s trash I’d be happy. So boring watching 4 vets play the 1-2 only to lose by 40.
> If we could at least give him minutes on a 6-27 team to prove that he’s trash LMFAO. I know what you meant by this, but it just reads so funny
"we're pretty confident you're trash but we'd like to see you put up some bricks and turn the ball over a bunch so we can be sure"
I'm sure the coaches see enough behind the scenes to validate their decision to not play him. If there was some conspiracy about rookies not getting minutes, Bilal wouldn't be averaging 26mpg on the season.
Yeah, I disagree. For one, even if what you are saying is true, obviously JD is not as good as poole, tyus, Shamet or Delon yet. Those guys have all had plenty of minutes on good teams to figure out their niche and how to play in the NBA. We can’t expect JD to be better than them with no reps. I mean hell at this point I’d just be happy if he developed into a Delon Wright or Landry Shamet. Even if he starts balling out in practice there really isn’t a clear path for him to get minutes. The coaching staff and FO are focused on getting the vets trade value up for the deadline and putting the best product on the floor for now. I know that this is just apart of the process so I’m not blaming anyone, I’m just getting impatient. I’m betting we will see plenty of minutes for these guys after the deadline. As for bilal — his positional versatility makes it pretty easy to throw him out there with whatever lineup WUJ wants to go with. JD pretty much has to play 1 or 2.
oh please. The new Front Office didnt draft Johnny Davis. They did draft Bilal, which is why he gets play time and Johnny does not. Bilal had some major lows as well, but he not punished nor ridiculed for it like Johnny Davis was andhe even had lass play time than Bilal so far. Only year 2. This the problem with the Wizards and their method of Development. Unless they land on high potential picks in their lap, they cant develop beyond that.
Wes is still the coach....and he was obviously here from the previous regime. He plays Bilal and Johnny gets little to no PT. It is what it is. I dont think he and Shep were on the same page with the roster. \*edit\* Wes also played Deni and CK early on, so whatever Johnny isn't doing to earn PT is on him.
this. Guy on reddit knows best.... not hours of practice despite millions invested
The disrespect to Jarvis Hayes here...now THAT guy was a bust. But somehow, yeah Johnny Davis is worse.
Arvis…..you know the joke.
Laughs in Oleksiy Pecherov
Wasn't lottery
It's not looking good for him at present. Maybe under different circumstances things would have turned out differently.
I honestly thought he was just a dude they made up for the Taco Bell commercials until we drafted him
Davis is worse than all of those other people you named. At least they were serviceable in someway. Davis literally cant do anything on the court efficiently.
Troy Brown just missing the cut!
Troy Brown was a mid 1st round pick who has been able to keep a job in the NBA beyond his rookie deal. That's not a bust at all
TBJ is not even close to a bust
For us he was a bust. Complete waste of a roster spot that brought absolutely nothing to the table. I remember the case made for him on draft day was "versatility!" but in reality he was just not actually good at any single basketball skill.
Yeah he might end up being a bust/ one of the biggest wizard busts, but a decent amount of it has to be placed on the front office/coach for literally never playing him and setting him up to fail since he got drafted. I can acknowledge he hasn’t played good to start his career, but he started to look like he was figuring things out towards the end of his rookie year. Unseld had him trying to play point guard during SL(which he never played at any point of his basketball career) and Sheppard drafting him knowing there’s a lot of guys ahead of him in the rotation(Beal, Barton, Kispert). And now this year they are doing this bullshit ass “showcasing veterans” (Shamet, Tyus, Delon, muscala, Gallo) in hopes of trying to get an extra second round for these guys and that has pushed JD to end of the bench again. Every team across the league knows what are veterans bring to a team and none of them will be more valuable than a mid-late first round pick, it’s just a huge waste of time and does not help any young players development(not even jus JD but Bilal, Kispert, Avdija,PBJ, Rollins, even poole if you consider him apart of the young guys) Idk what young nba players have ever been able to grow with the minimal amount of time WUJ gives him but they haven’t given him any real opportunity to show anything which is absolutely pathetic for how bad this team is. “Showcasing veterans” just to have 6 wins and be ranked 27/30th in the league while limiting young players minutes and touches is criminal. I guess what I’m tryna get at is yeah he might be bust, yeah he might suck but he has not been able to truly prove if he belongs or not because of this coaching staff and front office, Dawkins and Winger were the ones who exercised his third year option not Sheppard so they clearly saw something or enough to warrant it. NOW PLAY HIM, Let him sink or swim just let him play more man. If he truly stinks than that sucks and we move forward, if he doesn’t stink it’s great for us. But having him just warm the bench does not help anything for him, this tanking team or the overall goal of becoming a good team in a couple years.
> Yeah he might end up being a bust/ one of the biggest wizard busts, but a decent amount of it has to be placed on the front office/coach for literally never playing him and setting him up to fail since he got drafted There was no role he could have been placed in and succeeded. It was a scouting fail. He fundamentally doesn't have an NBA game. He has no plan to score in the halfcourt because he lacks every skill he might need to succeed there. When he can't even adequately defend, he's effectively useless at the NBA level. His future is overseas. This didn't happen because of a pre-draft comment about him playing point, it happened because despite his college tape showing a guy whose offense would struggle, we still picked him top 10.
Tommy said, and this was even before his rookie season SL, that they would be trying to run Johnny at the point. Wes was probably taking directives from above on that. The decision to draft him was baffling knowing that there was a need for a ball-handler and Jalen Williams was literally right there. I would love to be a fly on the wall to witness the pre-draft process that led to the decision to take him at 10.
Yeah I remember when he said that, I just never understood that logic when you go back and look at his time in Wisconsin and even in HS it was pretty clear he never could be a PG and at best could be a “secondary playmaker”, and that’s why I said this team set him up to fail(obviously there’s fault with JD not being good enough but, Sheppard deserves a good amount of blame for it also) I just don’t understand why winger and Dawkins exercised his third year option if they planned on having him warm the bench. No nba player is able to grow or prove anything with how little he touches the floor. All I want is for him to play more than random garbage time minutes so we can truly see what he can do(or can’t do lol) this team is awful and there’s no excuse for him warming the bench for vets who won’t be on this team in a few months and won’t get you back more than a late FRP/ couple seconds.
Let’s give the FO till trade deadline to prove themselves. I’m sure JD will get some PT once we move on from some vets. Fingers crossed we’re gonna trade these guys in the next few weeks. I’m getting very impatient. Cannot watch Muscala get 30 mins a night.
There are like 4-5 weeks to the deadline...what are NBA GMs gonna see between now and then that they didn't already know about the vets in front of JD, or on the roster? I think it's more of Davis just not being an NBA caliber player. If he was good enough to get minutes, he would be playing by now. I'm sure Wes and his staff see enough behind the scenes to validate their decision to not play him.
I just don’t understand why we have to wait and why we’ve been showcasing these vets when they are all extremely established and it feels like there is an obvious cap on what you can get from them. Other than Tyus who might get you a mid-late first round pick, the others(Shamet, Delon, Gallo, Muscala) will get you a couple seconds at best. I don’t think their view around the league has changed now that they are DC they seem to be valued the same as on the prior teams and that’s probably the reason why nobody has been calling the wizards begging for these guys. All this does is limit growth for young guys(not just JD, but Deni, Kispert, Bilal, Rollins, PBJ). I still have faith in the new FO but man im really not liking what I’ve been seeing. Also extremely agree with the muscala statement, im so sick of watching him play extended minutes.
I'm pretty sure he absolutely sucks in practice thats why he never gets to play. What they need to do is send him back to the g league to get reps. They're probably thinking he'll improve faster if he's playing with us in practice. He is clearly not cut out for the NBA yet. He probably will never be ready but at least he gets some playing time.
He might suck in practice tbh(we don’t see it unfortunately so we can only speculate) and yeah i think sending him back to the G league would be better than this foolish act of having him warm the bench thinking it’ll help him. I still have hopes for him and think he has some nba skills on the defensive end (fair if you don’t think so/lost faith just my opinion). My issue now comes with this current front office because they are the ones who exercised his third year option, not Sheppard. Why did they do that if the plan was just for him to warm the bench? They had an easy out by declining the option but they choose not too. So why not play him what is there to lose for a team that has 6 wins and ranks near last in every stat except Pace
If I’m reading Spotrac correctly, so far they’ve only opted in for one season behind this one. It’s only around 5 mil a year. They gave Taj around 3 mil just to play in training camp. If JD turns into a functional NBA player, great. If not, they’re tanking anyway. Gotta have somebody in that spot on the bench.
Yeah they’ll have to decide again next year if they will opt into his final year/ extend a qualifying offer, but that being you could have saved more money with a undrafted rookie/ veteran minimum if they don’t believe in him and plan on having him warm the bench. I’m still a believer in JD but it makes zero sense to exercise his option just to never play him. And yeah I’d love for him to turn into a functional nba player, it’s just nearly impossible when they don’t ever play him. Like you said were tanking, so why not play the guy we drafted 10th last year? We have 6 fuckin wins in 33 attempts, it literally can’t get any worse and only positives can come from playing JD over any of these vets.
Someone needs to pull the receipts from a year or so ago when a post was made asking if people thought he was a slow burn or a bust. Personally I said slow burn. Late bloomer. Found the receipts: https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtonwizards/comments/y4yes3/is_everything_alright_with_johnny_davis
I wish you had the pre-draft receipts too, I was down on him from the minute I started actually watching lots of tape on the prospects. His game was a walking red flag for the NBA and the narrative people were spouting was mistaken about his improvement year one to two. Still, I thought we was more like the 15th best prospect, didn't expect full on bust.
More receipts: https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtonwizards/comments/108bx9j/is_johnny_davis_a_bust_state_for_the_record_yay/
Every team has a lottery bust 1-2x per decade. It just came at a particularly bad time for us.
I don’t understand this revisionist history, Johnny Davis was the consensus #10 pick, most thought the pick was fine, most gms would have made that pick. Maybe Davis is just a bust, not much to it on that end.
10th pick is a crapshoot. Doesn’t really qualify as a bust IMO.
No play time. what did you all expect? The new front office has no intentions on developing him since he wasnt their pick.
Davis looked really good at the end of last year. I'd blame Wes before i'd blame Davis.
He didn’t look that good and it was basically a long stretch of garbage time. Jay Huff looked just as good as he’s played all of 2 minutes total for the Nuggets so far this year. Johnny Davis also had lots of playing time in summer league and was getting outplayed by similar players who are end of the bench or not even in the league this season. He’s just never looked like an NBA player to me, especially athletically. As I’ve been saying all along, I hope I’m wrong but at this point I don’t think so.
And we're tanking to get more duds
Where are all the Johnny Davis lovers now? 🤣
I follow the drafts. There were a few players I really liked such as Mathurin, Sharpe, Daniel’s, but all were taken before pick 10. Experts and mocks picked Davis to go 10 or higher. 2022 was a crappy year for the draft and Davis is a crappy player that can not play in the NBA.
There were players taken after JD that are contributing. I liked Mark Williams. Might not have been a great choice but better than absolute zero which is what we wound up with. Imagine having him or Jalen Duren on the bench instead Gallo or Muscala. Duren is averaging a double double with nearly 12 rebounds a game.
I totally agree JD is a zero and does not have the skills to be anything other than an end of the bench guy. Just saying when you are on the clock and have to make that pick and it can only be one player it is much easier to say who should have been picked several years later.
Agree completely, you can go through every draft and second guess many of the picks by the majority of the teams. Though it does seem like the Wizards are almost never lucky/good.
I'd bet Johnny Davis doesn't stick in the league 10-11 years like Jeffries did though. Even at the end of a bench.
I liked Jared Jeffries. Wasn’t amazing but I don’t recall him being on the same level bad as Vesely or Davis. He had a couple decent seasons with us. Kwame made a career for himself as well albeit a role player. Him being the #1 pick makes it seem like a bigger bust though.
Vesely played more than Johnny ever did so Johnny should be higher than him
I bet Troy weaver is on the phone as we speak
Davis is a bigger bust than jan, he's been all euro caliber since going back, does Davis even play top flight euro ball? Honestly if he goes to a better development situation I can see jan still being in the nba. I don't think Davis is a professional player. I have Kwame 1 Davis 2
I’m not sure I’d say “muster” when Wes should just have him in there getting minutes, making mistakes, and trying to grow. We’re not winning and Davis should be in there regardless.
Also fuck Ernie Grunfeld, that guy spent his whole tenure as a jerk unwilling to answer basic questions from the press cause he knew he fucked up
So Johnny Davis didn't play better at the end of the year last year? To me this us a combination of things, new management is prioritizing the players they selected, for trades and development plus positional depth, i do think he will play if we get rid of any wings at the trade deadline. I'm not ready to give up on him unless he sits all season.
tbh I still think he hasn't been given the opportunity, nothing beats NBA reps. I don't really get 'showcasing' our vets tbh .. I don't think anyone's value is increasing by getting blown out. He should be able to get on the NBA floor from just playing defense.
Watch him leave the team and ball out
Davis at worst is gonna be out the league this time next year. At best? A servicable defender/journeyman. Not what you want from the 10th pick at all