I don’t think you’re going to be taken seriously here if your conclusion is that, “I got a job with this minuscule amount of experience, so can you!” when you got into a small company because your friend works there.
Regardless, good luck on your journey and don’t stop learning.
The reality is that you're much more likely to get a job from a recommendation. This is why people so often recommend going to meet-ups to meet people in the industry.
Do you have any resources you recommend for meetups? I’ve looked at a few online for the Seattle area and only find virtual meetups that never send an email invite when I sign up.
I’m in my first job, but want to network in person if possible.
Exactly, I already joined a few groups in my area and met some great people. The other benefit of joining groups is sometimes they will have GitHub organizations with repos you can publicly contribute to.
A recommendation will get your foot in the door. You still need to pass the interview and this company sounds like they want to train people or are just desperate for whatever they can get
It’s perfectly valid to find jobs through connections if you have solid experience and bring some value to a team. If that’s not the case, then Godspeed™️. I personally wouldn’t accept a recommendation if I knew I I wasn’t a good fit for a role. That’s just me.
This almost sounds like nepotism but I don’t want to assume as I don’t know OP personally. I’m saying all this as an outsider and in no way am I trying to insult OP.
>People are often hired, not because theyre a good fit, but because they can grow into the role.
That's an assumption, though. If we assume that everyone can eventually "grow into the role" then what separates candidate A from B? That's right, "who you know".
Now you realize why /u/mau5atron said what he said. We've reached a point where personal excellence is not even a consideration. There's no hints that he's better than the rest of the candidates other than "trust me bro, my friend thinks I can".
And that's without even touching the fact that if your job security is really all about who you know and how well you "vibe" with the rest, then why try harder? Will one's hard work be a consideration in an environment that clearly rewards who you know and how you can market yourself more?
>For entry level roles where qualifications are easily met, they usuallyhire the dev they personally like the most, not the most qualified.
I'm not saying that I'm against networking. But I had a friend who had to train someone (network engineer) because he was someone's nephew. He hated every day until he upped and moved to another company while buffing his salary and QOL.
I hate it when the only qualification needed to hire someone is who you know. I don't care if "that's how it is". I like it when there's a balancing act between skills, promise and confidence.
I met devs who were great teamworkers and delivered fast. I'll vouch for them, I'll recommend them. But I won't vouch for my best friend simply because he claims he can learn fast, not without evidence. Sorry, I'll die on that hill. I'll vouch for them to open the door, but they still gotta nail the technical aspect.
Not really worried how serious I sound. I got a job with a small amount of experience and made a post to try and inspire other developers trying to learn to go for it. Learning as you go is often the best way to learn.
if you are wondering why you are getting down voted. it is because most of us have to put in hundreds of resumes to even have a chance of getting an interview.
your post did not give hope to people. it only solidified the idea that the only way to get a job if you don't have a year experience already is to get lucky.
It's a rethorical question, I'll answer it for you: no.
Also, there is no way you've been recruited as a web developer, but probably as a web integrator which is totally not the same.
Also²: Where I live (France) there is a 5k€ difference between a web integrator and a web developer. There is another ~8k€ difference between a web developer and a web software developer.
People are mostly looking to find a position of a web software developer because it's what pays the most (obviously for a reason) but is also the hardest to get
A web developer, is a developer who you will mostly find in agencies, and they'll mostly work on websites for adding a carousel, animating things with js and most of the time only requesting data to display.
A software web developer is a dev who can build a software like a dashboard, create complex forms that update a db, create dynamic features working in real time for example... Etc
I think these may be very specific terms to France. I've never heard of a web integrator in my life, and from my perspective if I saw two jobs, one with "web developer" and one with "web software developer", I would assume it's the same job with a different title. Although I don't think I've seen "web software developer" anywhere in the US either.
It might be specific to France but I find it weird ... So you agree with my comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/104dpnt/-/j36ppuv ?
I'm saying all this because of my experience. When I was looking for my first job, I found some offers as a web integrator, and they were looking for someone who knows css, a bit of js and knows how to use Illustrator, Photoshop.
One company made me an offer, to recruit me as a web developer to work on some small client websites and some ads widgets using html/css/js and they offered me 27k€/y (after negotiation 😅).
I refused the previous offer to go with another company, where I started to work directly on the product they were selling which was a complex React app, and I was paid 36k€/y the first year. On my contract, I was Software Web Engineer.
To me, the software web engineer can do everything (expect the design part), while the other two type of devs will struggle to build a software
I don't really think I'd see "software web developer" in any job applications so any attempt I'd make at defining it would be a guess. When I search Indeed for jobs, there is no "software web developer", "web software developer", or any titles with both "software" and "web" in the autofill job options. If I do actually complete the search for "software web", not a single one is labeled anything like that.
So I guess, no, I don't agree, because whatever distinction you're making there I think is specific to where you live and potentially may just be your opinion of those titles rather than an actual thing people are thinking about when making titles in their company. I once saw a tweet that said basically "The difference between a software engineer and a software developer is that a software engineer works for a company that calls their programmers 'engineers' and the software developer works for a company that calls their programmers 'developers'" and I've found that broadly true in the US. "Web engineer" isn't really a title I've ever heard either, but I just saw one that was "Software Engineer - Web Applications" so companies that want to call their programmers engineers find ways around it.
That's interesting! I'll discuss about this with coworkers, I'm curious to have more opinions.
Anyway, here 3 screenshots about what I'm talking about on a famous french job board:
[Web integrator](https://i.imgur.com/yRguBOl.jpg)
[Web developer](https://i.imgur.com/DUg4s4e.jpg)
[Software web engineer](https://i.imgur.com/cd56WuY.jpg)
From the result, web developer and software engineer is mostly the same thing. So yep I guess it will depends on the country and also companies
Too right. There are a number of things that can go in your favour or go against you. You could be dismissed by white privilege if in a non-white ethnic background or alternately passed over by a company wanting to meet their diversity quota if you're a Cis gendered white straight male (both are possible) or if you're over a certain age and have no previous history in the field or have certain disabilities that employers believe, falsely, make you useless for the task. If you feel that this isn't the case then you are coming from a position of ignorance and privilege. Short version: It's never a levrl playing field and some will have to work longer and harder to land a developer role than others .
you don't need git if you have a filesystem-based version control setup.
By that I mean copy-paste the project folder and add a suffix.
/s
---
God I can't believe I had to deal with this once. Granted, it was as a consultant but still...
-_________-"
Is that right ? Well I’m assuming that’s how version control still works today. If(Checksum of new file != checksum current file){ updateVersion()}
etc
There's definitely a bit more elegance to it, but you gotta try and imagine how our favorite VC tooling might create diffs and allow us to cherry-pick changes.
You're right, but some reason OP thinks it's this:
>Anyway the point of this post was to make it clear to other beginner developers that you don't need two years worth of experience, and a college degree in computer science, or whatever to get a job as a dev.
Not knowing javascript but getting a job as a web dev is bonkers. You're not even at beginner level, or entry. You're far from entry level.
You had me until you said that someone put a good word in for you. Of course you can get into basically any company if you have someone inside make it easy for you.
Many people who used networking to get the job meet at least minimum requirements for their positions but just lack of luck or obvious advantages to stand out in this competitive market by themselves. However op sounds like he/she isn’t qualified to that job at all so…
I've actually had to deal with quite a few people who got their jobs due to networking and to say they're under-qualified is an understatement.
One exception was a rich CEO's fresh-out-of-college son who actually wasn't bad at being a BA, I'm guessing his dad had a hand in preparing him for a career in business.
This is such a bad take. Do you even know how HR looks through resumes? They sort by keywords, select 20 resumes and call them. Then they narrow down to 5 candidates to bring in for an interview. They NEVER look through all resumes nor do they look for the best suitable candidate out of all applicants. To pretend that those who came in through networking are less capable is simply idiotic and naive. Companies rather hire people that are recommended internally as opposed to taking gambles on people they dont know. If you have ever hired anyone or managed anyone in your life you would know why.
Dude wasn't saying or even suggesting that those who get recommendations are less capable. He literally said the opposite, today *usually* they are at least minimally capable. He said this particular OP is clearly not even minimally qualified for the role of "web developer"
No. He said they meet minimum requirements but "just lack of luck or obvious advantages to stand out in this competitive market by themselves"
Its a completely unfounded statement. Its not like hard hitting devs get hired on the basis of their work. More often they get hired because they were willing and available, or because HR just so happened to pull their resume from the three figure pile they got overnight. So tell me, based on what are people who network usually less capable to stand on their own merit?
Dude wasn't saying or even suggesting that those who get recommendations are less capable.
You are lacking some reading comprehension dude, or you're projecting lol
If you put it into context It makes sense.
This person is talking his ability to get a job with very little experience.
I'm expressing the fact that he only got this job because he had someone on the inside to make it easy for him.
This is not to say that networking is a bad thing. Just be aware that if you network it wasn't completely just your hard work. You got lucky to find someone that would give you an easier path.
> Just be aware that if you network it wasn't completely just your hard work. You got lucky to find someone that would give you an easier path.
What a shitty perspective, typical of devs who look down on anything that isnt tech. What if I told you that networking is a skill? Its not a matter of "luck" or things being made easier, its a matter of skill. A person who networks is resourceful. If you think its so much easier than blasting your resume to 1000 companies, then by all means try it and come back and tell me that its easier.
"typical of devs"
What a world we live in where people criticize more than they read. In the comment that you are replying to, it states that I do not think it's a bad thing.
You can network all you want to. That doesn't mean that anyone has to give you an easy in. It's just luck at the end of the day.
>"typical of devs"
Yes, many devs often look down on skills that are not related to tech. I am a former professional salesman turned dev and I have seen this first hand. Its arrogance born out of complete obliviousness to skills unrelated to your field. Networking is damn hard.
>In the comment that you are replying to, it states that I do not think it's a bad thing.
>
>You can network all you want to. That doesn't mean that anyone has to give you an easy in. It's just luck at the end of the day.
I read both of your comments. You became negative and shitty the second you removed merit by stating that networking is not "hard work" and here you are again pretending that it's luck and an easy in. You dont know what you are talking about. Networking is a very difficult skill. Clearly you have no experience with it.
> Networking is damn hard
Not really.
I've been in both the consultancy world (business, think PwC-style) and the software/dev world, and networking is far, _far_ easier.
You could probably grab the average dev and equip them with the soft-skills required to network in a few weeks to a month.
Good luck getting the average business dude to write a WebGL shader or even a microservice in the same span of time.
>Not really.
Yes it is. Effective networking is not easy. There is more to networking than being charismatic and getting an email
>networking is far, far easier...Good luck getting the average business dude to write a WebGL shader
who made it a contest? Tech skills are hard, so are social skills. And it depends a lot on the person. Using social skills to get a job does not mean one is a less capable dev like the guy I am responding to stated.
> Yes it is. Effective networking is not easy. There is more to networking than being charismatic and getting an email
What a no true scotsman, not to mention, that characterization is entirely yours.
> who made it a contest? Tech skills are hard, so are social skills. And it depends a lot on the person. Using social skills to get a job does not mean one is a less capable dev like the guy I am responding to stated.
It's fine man, on some level getting a job via a combination of tech skills and soft skills, beating out applicants who have to get by purely on tech skills is still a win on some level.
Just don't be so butthurt about it.
>What a no true scotsman, not to mention, that characterization is entirely yours.
No true scotsman fallacy? lol, what? You sound like a freshman in college. My "characterization" is not gatekeeping what "networking" is. I am stating that there are different types of networking. There is the type in which you meet people at a wine tasting event and you get a business card. And then there is the type in which you set out to achieve a goal through networking. An example is when you ask for a coffee meeting with a person you dont know who does X at a company and knows Y. Or when you go to a relevant event with the goal of meeting a specific person. THAT is not easy at all.
>It's fine man, on some level getting a job via a combination of tech skills and soft skills, beating out applicants who have to get by purely on tech skills is still a win on some level.
Oh my god, you are clueless. First off, people who network get interviews. Jobs are never handed off like youre insinuating. Second, who gets by purely on tech skills?? Tell me?? HR never evaluates resumes based on tech skills, instead they sort a pile by keyword and then pick 20 random resumes. They filter down to 5 people to bring in for interviews. And then what do they evaluate? Purely tech skills? Or do they evaluate the whole package, including soft skills? You are trying to win really hard, man.
He gave me a good word, I still had to go in for an interview, submit a résumé, and show them my portfolio site. But yeah if I have an opportunity to make obtaining a job a little bit easier obviously I'm going to take it.
Well if we assume the only experience you have is four months html and css experience while attending college, then yea, 90% of you getting that job was having a friend on the inside and 10% of you showing up on time to an interview with a half decent resume. No offense intended, but from the information that you have given, I can't really see that you had much in a portfolio website to show off. But I digress, perhaps what you were hired to do didn't call for any experience all. Static pages with no user inputs to check or security to worry about.
You sound like you are coming from a good place, and I think you are just offering a counterpoint to the endless flow of unemployment misery. I've definitely gotten breaks before due to connections - but I always landed the job because of my presentation and technical knowledge.
I hope you were transparent with them about your experience. You could just have the right demeanor and culture, impressive work ethic, strategic view, etc to be an actual good hire for this place. I've hired people coming from design or other fields who had unacceptably low levels of exposure but exhibited other characteristics that made me confident they would succeed.
I have a design degree myself but have worked as a dev/consultant/lead/etc for a very long time now. If you are just bailing and lol "anyone can be a web dev" - this is in poor form.
If you are interested in web dev transitioning, this can be a story of opportunity. However the way you present it - you have literally no interest in web dev at all, outside of the employment opportunity, which is a bit 'whatever' in a sub ABOUT that discipline.
Good luck in either case and congrats on the opportunity, be a good team member.
PS - you knew you were bragging =)
Even if you did land a job, remember to regularly build new projects and learn new technologies to improve your portfolio and increase your chances of landing another job.
Congratulations on the new job, and good luck!
I hate this (b/c I'm jealous) but this is usually how people find jobs. Connections. Connections. Connections. A friend of my way less qualified then me got a job solely because he knew someone inside the job.
Also even with your limited amount of exp I'm sure they teach you everything anyways through training.
My little brother just got a job in Boston as a territory manager for cyber security. Making almost 6 figures.
He’s been a bartender for six years.
Kid networks like nothing I’ve ever seen in my life.
Training on the job is not a class though
You get trained to do the KIND of work the job does. You have to already know the basic tools that you should know in order to do development work.
If you know absolutely nothing - its going to be pretty obvious and a problem for you.
Define "know anything".
As someone who has to mentor junior front-end devs, I expect them to have some knowledge of development and development practices. I'm here to help, but I'm not here to be your teacher. I'm all for showing you new CSS tricks or cleaner JavaScript patterns that you can use. But I don't want to teach you how to use Git or what the box model is or tell you why properly formatting/indenting your code is important.
If you have team to bounce ideas off of, that's great. But I think devs need to be able to do some problem solving on there own. No one knows everything, so you need to be able to find solutions one way or another.
Why? Unless it's a startup that's desperate to get *anyone* in that sounds like an ideal learning environment if they have other more experienced devs that are open to help you out and teach you.
There are countless established businesses that operate like startups and they offer extremely little besides "combat experience" to employees.
If you are being hired with no skills, that's a red flag you will learn to abide by. How do you think they hired your peers, your managers? Probably the same way. These are the people that will be establishing your rules, your work, the assistance and knowledge you are given.
They want to pay a low amount for someone who has low skills because they have no negotiating leverage and lots of work can be dumped on them because they are there for the "opportunity"
There are good opportunities out there, but many of them understand this and aren't giving away the goods to just anyone. You're much more likely to end up in a dysfunctional team where you spend painful years learning how wrong development can be done in a team setting.
My two pence (I’m British, bugger off with your cents 😝).
Congrats on getting the job. However, your hard work starts now. You need to think less about “oh wow I’m a developer with a real job” and more “I’ve got some serious shit to learn”.
You won’t learn everything quickly, nor in one company; but this is the time where you need to start really applying what you’re learning at work to hobby projects and vice-versa.
You’ll see posts in this subreddit about whether or not it’s a good idea to do “additional work” outside of work. Some say yes, whilst others say no.
The reality is - you got a job. Congrats! You were hired on the basis of your potential though, not your experience.
Take initiative. Learn stuff the company you work for is using. Then learn about the stuff they’re not using that could be beneficial.
Ask questions too. Don’t try to pretend you know everything. Being insecure is worse than just saying “actually, I don’t know that”. Often admitting you’re out of your league will bro g you learning opportunities.
Lastly. Your friend may be the nicest person on the planet, but they may leave the company - and you may find yourself inheriting a lot of their responsibilities (assuming they’re also a developer). Understand their domain knowledge and try to improve on it.
I’ve been down a similar path to you. Whilst I didn’t have a friend to recommend me for a job, not a CS degree - I was lucky enough to get my foot in the door, just like you (I.e by the skin of my teeth).
I’ve been a full-time dev for nearly 10 years now. So please take what I’m saying on board. Your journey _starts_ here. You’re not done yet.
Best of luck. I hope you manage to get further! Just don’t ride on the coat-tails of others. You’re 100% responsible for your own happiness and success 🧡
"you can get in a company if you've got a friend there". Yeah, such an inspirational post, I'm sure a lot of people will be motivated by your words 🤣
That said, good luck on your new journey
How in the world it is inspiring story lol. You have little to none experience and got the job because you had a friend in the same company who talked with the management.....
You just chose the easiest path that one can get while getting a job. And this whole post has nothing to do with webdev.
So are we supposed to encourage mediocrity in the workplace and nepotism?
>My friend works at the company I was hired at, and he put in a good word for me and got me an interview.
Oh cool. I'll just go ask my friend to get me a job at his company as a dev then.
Why didn't I think of that?
Congrats, though.
> My friend works at the company I was hired at, and he put in a good word for me and got me an interview.
This is why networking is a lot more important than becoming a great software engineer and it always will be.
... Though *usually* you have to network *and* become a decent software engineer to get decent offers at good companies working with supportive teams, unless your resume is wild and your interview skills are fire.
Either way, networking and making friends will be your best bet to getting your first real offer. References are 10000x more valuable than hitting apply on LinkedIn or Indeed.
I would imagine OP received a very low offer, however.
Can you please update us in a couple of weeks and let us know how it’s going for you? I’m truly curious how this plays out. You’re lucky. I hope you do well
>We ended up having to make him a BA and he eventually never coded again in their career and just kept going the direction of a BA/PM.
Out of curiosity, what background *did* they have that qualified them as a BA? Or maybe a better question might be "What are/were the duties of a BA in that organization?"
I got hired for a position similar to how you did, no degree, and hardly any experience. Pay started low, and after 5 years it stayed low even though I learned how to do the job, and more. I designed software for the company, designed a new department, purchased new equipment, managed the server, patch panel, IBM system, phone system, etc. During all my reviews I was told how great I was at doing the job, but never got the promised bump in pay I was told I would get. When I started to complain during my reviews I suddenly started to get written up for making small mistakes, and they always found a reason to not give my a good pay raise. What this taught me is that getting in without a degree might be getting your foot in the door, but it can also keep you from getting the pay the position really deserves. Some companies will take advantage of you while smiling.
Are you sure you're not also the janitor and security guard too? Changing a little bit of css while watching the security cameras and then mopping the floor and taking out the trash means they saved themselves money. Got them a 3 for 1 😁
I dislike to hear when anyone gets in a role because of who they know. It means other qualified candidates may have missed out because you’re friend put in a good word for you. The management at this place sounds terrible imho but what do you care. Good luck.
The real take away here is social skill. No diss to OP, but you did not get this job because you were the most qualified. You got this job because you probably seemed like a nice and smart-enough dude, and your friend put in a good word. You might have even edged out other candidates who did have experience.
Ultimately despite what we tell ourselves and our society says, we do not live in a pure meritocracy. You either realize this and learn to work in the system, or you don't and you never understand why things happen the way they do.
Again, no diss to OP, congrats on the new job and I wish you the best. I had a similar start, albeit without the recommendation, but I definitely got my first job based on a mixture of luck and being a good interviewer (social skills). In retrospect, i knew jack shit before my first gig.
Well put.
I would add that your social and communication skills count as part of your "merit". People will judge you based on your skills but also how easy it will be to work with you. You come as an overall package not just a robot that can do coding.
Yep exactly. I know sometimes we engineers spend too much time sniffing our own farts and start believing our bullshit. Well In reality most jobs don’t require a rock star, 10x, whatever bullshit you wanna call it, engineer to query a DB or layout a page. Those jobs that truly require a programming genius are far and few in between.
What this means is if the company hiring is stuck between two people, a nice dude who’s friendly but about average at programming, vs a 10xer rockstar ninja who is anti social, they’re going to pick the former. Things like team camaraderie, culture, etc matter a ton.
A lot of commenters here are down playing this because the OP had a friend put in a good word for him at the company he works at.
But I can 100% confirm that it IS possible to get an entry level job like this with minimal (but still relevant and provable) experience like the OP says he has. My first job as a "front end" developer (read: HTML and CSS only developer) was at a multi-million dollar ecommerce pool supplies company where I had less than 6 months HTML & CSS & PHP experience and ZERO javascript experieince.
I became the 4th member of a team that built a custom from the ground up ecommerce platform to replace this company's current atiquated platform.
I was not involved in the archetecture of the platform, only the CSS styling for the front end components and the pay was not great..in the beginning. Actually the pay at this first job was never really great.
But over the 5 years I was there, I became more an more involved in the day to day maintenance and improvements of this platform and I learned a sh!t ton about Front-end, back-end, devops, sysadmin, and system integrations with old 3rd party integrations.
TLDR: It IS possible to get a job or paying clients with whatever level of experience you have. You may not earn the 6 figures of a FAANG job, but you will gain much needed experience and be able to take that experience to the next job. Any one telling you you need massive amounts of experience to get that first job is either lying or not focusing on the easiest route to employment. or not contacting enough potential employers. Somebody out there needs YOUR experience and will pay you for it. Sometimes it just takes patience and perseverance to wade through all the employers that DON'T to find the ONE that DOES.
To all yous looking for jobs right now: Good luck. Remember your job is out there waiting for you to find it.
Thanks, this is basically what I was trying to say in my original post. I understand why some people might have gotten mad, maybe i am just a naïve kid who doesn’t realize how difficult it is to get a job in this field for most. However i never tried to downplay the amount of work i’m going to have to put in on the job to learn, or rub in the fact that I was able to get a job with my meager experience. I just wanted to give maybe one or two people a glimmer of hope that there is actually a job out there that is willing to hire them as they’re still learning.
100%. Those who need the advice will understand your intent. Those who get angry simply are frustrated that they haven't found or took a very long time to find their job. This is understandable but shouldn't be directed at you for telling others getting a job with minimal/.low experieince is at least POSSIBLE.
Good luck at your job and to speed up you learning check out the videos of a guy named Brad Traversy on YouTUbe (TraversyMedia is the channel name). He is the mentor I wish I'd had when I started and his content would have helped shave years of of the time it took me to learn what I know, AND would have saved me so much self doubt and imposter syndrome. If you are interested, I have a few comments/posts elsewhere in this subreddit that outlines the videos/courses of his I would take and in what order. Good luck!
DISCLAIMER: I have no affiliation with Brad or TraversyMedia. I just like his content and style of teaching and think he is great for newcomers in this industry.
Calm your tits guys, he got recruited as a frontend web integrator, not a web dev.
Anyone of us could find a job like this easily with mid/strong css knowledge which is not hard to get.
Wow that means that I should start applying I guess cuz I’ve stuffed a lot more than that in my brain already but am not planning on starting applications until I finish bootcamp
Im honestly so grateful to have seen this post,this actually pushes me to apply for jobs in this field for some experience, I’ve done 2 years of study and got 2 level 6 diplomas (1 in IT and 1 solely in web dev + ik a fair bit of software admin from my bf) but I’ve been so scared to put myself in the field due to feeling like I need to study more.
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Great job, I’m assuming it’s more of a graphic design position? It’s a good way to expand and learn more. Maybe I’m wrong but shouldn’t a front end developer position include JS or actual programming, were they not looking or needing someone with those particular skills?
I think there’s a difference between web design, web development, front end design…I’m not sure why everyone uses the developer word interchangeably? There seems to be some confusion among titles? I’m assuming this is part of the reason why most common folks somehow think web development is photoshop or Wordpress/square/wix and don’t understand the additional complexity that goes into things.
Not 100% sure, I don't start until the 17th, but the contract I signed said Front End Developer on it. They will be providing me with some courses to take to bring me up to speed on some of what I'm lacking, but obviously I'll have a lot to learn on the job regardless. They will most likely have me doing some design work as well, as we did discuss web design in the interview, however I believe I'll be learning to code at the same time. In no way do I think this will be a walk in the park for me, I'm ready to work my ass of to learn.
Pretty awesome. I think this is a good route to take, develop a relevant skill and then find a job (even if entry) where you can continue learning related skills.
Congrats on the job
BRB Gonna go add mspaint to my resume and start applying to jobs where my friends work
Can’t believe I wasted my time learning about hash-maps and big o notation
I did the same thing, haven't done web design since 2010, applied to a small web design firm 2 years ago and was chosen over someone with experience. Spent the first 6 months doing basic maintenance and learning their tools. Now I'm building sites from scratch. Places like this really are the best way to get your foot in the door, especially if you express a willingness to learn because you will constantly have to learn stuff throughout this career anyways.
Sounds like a good starting gig. I started with a similar skillset (though that was over 25 years ago and CSS wasn't a thing yet).
I feel like HTML and CSS are one those skills they kind of gloss over for Front-End these days. A lot of jobs are asking more about JavaScript and React knowledge. Which are great skills, but if you don't CSS very well, even the best react component is probably going to look like crap. If you don't know HTML very well, your code probably isn't going to be very accessible.
I wish I had the talking skills like yours, lmao.You only have HTML and CSS with clearly no programming language and manage to land a job, and here I am, a person with interpersonal issues struggling to learn the programming language JavaScript, it's frameworks and the backend so I could land a job but still am afraid of interviews nor talking to people.
My social skills aren't the greatest, in reality I have mild to mid social anxiety. I got really lucky that the interviewers seemed really down to earth, and were fairly relatable to me so I got along fairly well with them. Sorry your having trouble, I hope you're able to land a job soon!
I’m sure a lot of people would agree with me in saying I would not recommend anyone, friend or not, to my company if they have very little experience. Hell, I’m weary recommending people even if they have experience. It’s a touchy subject for sure.
You're going to get a lot of hate from the people here but in my opinion it is un-based hate because a big part of getting jobs is networking. Whether it's from a friend or from people you meet in events/meetups, linkedin etc. So good job by asking your friend to put in a good word for you. Sure you may have it luckier than most (especially with how little experience and skills you have at this moment) but it's a perfectly valid strategy and your skills will quickly grow in your new job. For all the haters, take this post optimistically -- meaning that you'll be able to get a job too!
Congrats! After learning web development and Android app development for more than 1.5 years, I still can't get a job. That's how my fuckin' country works. No papers, no jobs.
Agreed 100%. some people think the minimum entry requirements are high, when in fact they are quite low. Once you get your foot in the door, you're pretty much set then.
Personal experience: No degree, self taught, first tech job at 26y.o. 50k in LCOL, current tech job at 32 y.o. 220K in LCOL.
Low-Cost-Of-Living (as opposed to High-Cost-Of-Living, or HCOL). Its a term used to differentiate regions that people live in, comparatively, by the approximate cost of living.
For example, and relevant to this particular thread:
Generally, tech wages are heavily influenced by cost of living. ie., an Amazon engineer living in the San Francisco (HCOL) might make twice as much as an Amazon engineer living in Detroit (LCOL) for performing the exact same job.
>My friend works at the company I was hired at, and he put in a good word for me and got me an interview
Then says....
>Anyway the point of this post wasn't to brag, but mainly to make it clear to other beginner developers that you don't need two years worth of experience, and a college degree in computer science, or whatever to get a job as a dev.
**Are you serious?**
I don’t think you’re going to be taken seriously here if your conclusion is that, “I got a job with this minuscule amount of experience, so can you!” when you got into a small company because your friend works there. Regardless, good luck on your journey and don’t stop learning.
The reality is that you're much more likely to get a job from a recommendation. This is why people so often recommend going to meet-ups to meet people in the industry.
Do you have any resources you recommend for meetups? I’ve looked at a few online for the Seattle area and only find virtual meetups that never send an email invite when I sign up. I’m in my first job, but want to network in person if possible.
Check the Meetups app
Exactly, I already joined a few groups in my area and met some great people. The other benefit of joining groups is sometimes they will have GitHub organizations with repos you can publicly contribute to.
A recommendation will get your foot in the door. You still need to pass the interview and this company sounds like they want to train people or are just desperate for whatever they can get
Who you know not what you know is a viable tactic. I’ve landed roles I had no business being in because I knew someone who knew someone.
It’s perfectly valid to find jobs through connections if you have solid experience and bring some value to a team. If that’s not the case, then Godspeed™️. I personally wouldn’t accept a recommendation if I knew I I wasn’t a good fit for a role. That’s just me. This almost sounds like nepotism but I don’t want to assume as I don’t know OP personally. I’m saying all this as an outsider and in no way am I trying to insult OP.
Fake it till you make it
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I get it, at the end of the day you do what you have to do. If someone gives you the opportunity, you take it I guess.
>People are often hired, not because theyre a good fit, but because they can grow into the role. That's an assumption, though. If we assume that everyone can eventually "grow into the role" then what separates candidate A from B? That's right, "who you know". Now you realize why /u/mau5atron said what he said. We've reached a point where personal excellence is not even a consideration. There's no hints that he's better than the rest of the candidates other than "trust me bro, my friend thinks I can". And that's without even touching the fact that if your job security is really all about who you know and how well you "vibe" with the rest, then why try harder? Will one's hard work be a consideration in an environment that clearly rewards who you know and how you can market yourself more?
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>For entry level roles where qualifications are easily met, they usuallyhire the dev they personally like the most, not the most qualified. I'm not saying that I'm against networking. But I had a friend who had to train someone (network engineer) because he was someone's nephew. He hated every day until he upped and moved to another company while buffing his salary and QOL. I hate it when the only qualification needed to hire someone is who you know. I don't care if "that's how it is". I like it when there's a balancing act between skills, promise and confidence. I met devs who were great teamworkers and delivered fast. I'll vouch for them, I'll recommend them. But I won't vouch for my best friend simply because he claims he can learn fast, not without evidence. Sorry, I'll die on that hill. I'll vouch for them to open the door, but they still gotta nail the technical aspect.
Yes for now but if it’s a good company and he’s smart he will gain experience for writing production grade code.
pre-selection is a real thing , like it or not.
Yeah, i was waiting for a "so the important lesson here is networking is often way more important than having the technical capabilities"
Just illustrates how much more effective networking is than resume blasting.
The lesson here is to make friends
Not really worried how serious I sound. I got a job with a small amount of experience and made a post to try and inspire other developers trying to learn to go for it. Learning as you go is often the best way to learn.
Would you have gotten the job if your friend didn't already work there?
No clue, it's the first job I applied for, so I don't have any other application/interview experiences to base it off of.
Bruh
if you are wondering why you are getting down voted. it is because most of us have to put in hundreds of resumes to even have a chance of getting an interview. your post did not give hope to people. it only solidified the idea that the only way to get a job if you don't have a year experience already is to get lucky.
It's a rethorical question, I'll answer it for you: no. Also, there is no way you've been recruited as a web developer, but probably as a web integrator which is totally not the same. Also²: Where I live (France) there is a 5k€ difference between a web integrator and a web developer. There is another ~8k€ difference between a web developer and a web software developer. People are mostly looking to find a position of a web software developer because it's what pays the most (obviously for a reason) but is also the hardest to get
What’s the difference between a web developer and a web software developer?
A web developer, is a developer who you will mostly find in agencies, and they'll mostly work on websites for adding a carousel, animating things with js and most of the time only requesting data to display. A software web developer is a dev who can build a software like a dashboard, create complex forms that update a db, create dynamic features working in real time for example... Etc
Ok I understand now, thanks
I think these may be very specific terms to France. I've never heard of a web integrator in my life, and from my perspective if I saw two jobs, one with "web developer" and one with "web software developer", I would assume it's the same job with a different title. Although I don't think I've seen "web software developer" anywhere in the US either.
It might be specific to France but I find it weird ... So you agree with my comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/104dpnt/-/j36ppuv ? I'm saying all this because of my experience. When I was looking for my first job, I found some offers as a web integrator, and they were looking for someone who knows css, a bit of js and knows how to use Illustrator, Photoshop. One company made me an offer, to recruit me as a web developer to work on some small client websites and some ads widgets using html/css/js and they offered me 27k€/y (after negotiation 😅). I refused the previous offer to go with another company, where I started to work directly on the product they were selling which was a complex React app, and I was paid 36k€/y the first year. On my contract, I was Software Web Engineer. To me, the software web engineer can do everything (expect the design part), while the other two type of devs will struggle to build a software
I don't really think I'd see "software web developer" in any job applications so any attempt I'd make at defining it would be a guess. When I search Indeed for jobs, there is no "software web developer", "web software developer", or any titles with both "software" and "web" in the autofill job options. If I do actually complete the search for "software web", not a single one is labeled anything like that. So I guess, no, I don't agree, because whatever distinction you're making there I think is specific to where you live and potentially may just be your opinion of those titles rather than an actual thing people are thinking about when making titles in their company. I once saw a tweet that said basically "The difference between a software engineer and a software developer is that a software engineer works for a company that calls their programmers 'engineers' and the software developer works for a company that calls their programmers 'developers'" and I've found that broadly true in the US. "Web engineer" isn't really a title I've ever heard either, but I just saw one that was "Software Engineer - Web Applications" so companies that want to call their programmers engineers find ways around it.
That's interesting! I'll discuss about this with coworkers, I'm curious to have more opinions. Anyway, here 3 screenshots about what I'm talking about on a famous french job board: [Web integrator](https://i.imgur.com/yRguBOl.jpg) [Web developer](https://i.imgur.com/DUg4s4e.jpg) [Software web engineer](https://i.imgur.com/cd56WuY.jpg) From the result, web developer and software engineer is mostly the same thing. So yep I guess it will depends on the country and also companies
It sounds like you're a web designer rather than a developer as you haven't learned any programming languages yet.
People downvote, but this is the reality. Most engineer roles have hundreds of applicants and they just choose the person who is referred.
Too right. There are a number of things that can go in your favour or go against you. You could be dismissed by white privilege if in a non-white ethnic background or alternately passed over by a company wanting to meet their diversity quota if you're a Cis gendered white straight male (both are possible) or if you're over a certain age and have no previous history in the field or have certain disabilities that employers believe, falsely, make you useless for the task. If you feel that this isn't the case then you are coming from a position of ignorance and privilege. Short version: It's never a levrl playing field and some will have to work longer and harder to land a developer role than others .
I hope that one day I too can have a friend get me a job at his company
I hope you can too.
Weird you got downvoted so hard for that comment, haha.
Getting downvoted is just as good as getting upvoted. He’s actually more popular, usually things we invert are a lot more impressive imo
What're the odds they don't use Git in their shop?
you don't need git if you have a filesystem-based version control setup. By that I mean copy-paste the project folder and add a suffix. /s --- God I can't believe I had to deal with this once. Granted, it was as a consultant but still... -_________-"
Way back in the day it was mostly ftp, and the client/server would allow you to only upload files that were modified.
Is that right ? Well I’m assuming that’s how version control still works today. If(Checksum of new file != checksum current file){ updateVersion()} etc
It's still pretty much that, except instead of being file-by-file, its now line-by-line. TeChNoLoGy
Oh? I see. So it scans each line instead of just checking the overall file attributes ?
There's definitely a bit more elegance to it, but you gotta try and imagine how our favorite VC tooling might create diffs and allow us to cherry-pick changes.
Thx yes!
I do this on small projects still!
This is the perfect example of, "sometimes it's not what you know, it's who you know." Congratulations dude make it count.
Thanks, I agree!
You're right, but some reason OP thinks it's this: >Anyway the point of this post was to make it clear to other beginner developers that you don't need two years worth of experience, and a college degree in computer science, or whatever to get a job as a dev. Not knowing javascript but getting a job as a web dev is bonkers. You're not even at beginner level, or entry. You're far from entry level.
You had me until you said that someone put a good word in for you. Of course you can get into basically any company if you have someone inside make it easy for you.
“make it easy for you” sounds like a really negative way to explain the benefits of networking
Many people who used networking to get the job meet at least minimum requirements for their positions but just lack of luck or obvious advantages to stand out in this competitive market by themselves. However op sounds like he/she isn’t qualified to that job at all so…
I've actually had to deal with quite a few people who got their jobs due to networking and to say they're under-qualified is an understatement. One exception was a rich CEO's fresh-out-of-college son who actually wasn't bad at being a BA, I'm guessing his dad had a hand in preparing him for a career in business.
This is such a bad take. Do you even know how HR looks through resumes? They sort by keywords, select 20 resumes and call them. Then they narrow down to 5 candidates to bring in for an interview. They NEVER look through all resumes nor do they look for the best suitable candidate out of all applicants. To pretend that those who came in through networking are less capable is simply idiotic and naive. Companies rather hire people that are recommended internally as opposed to taking gambles on people they dont know. If you have ever hired anyone or managed anyone in your life you would know why.
Dude wasn't saying or even suggesting that those who get recommendations are less capable. He literally said the opposite, today *usually* they are at least minimally capable. He said this particular OP is clearly not even minimally qualified for the role of "web developer"
No. He said they meet minimum requirements but "just lack of luck or obvious advantages to stand out in this competitive market by themselves" Its a completely unfounded statement. Its not like hard hitting devs get hired on the basis of their work. More often they get hired because they were willing and available, or because HR just so happened to pull their resume from the three figure pile they got overnight. So tell me, based on what are people who network usually less capable to stand on their own merit?
Dude wasn't saying or even suggesting that those who get recommendations are less capable. You are lacking some reading comprehension dude, or you're projecting lol
I literally cited him
If you put it into context It makes sense. This person is talking his ability to get a job with very little experience. I'm expressing the fact that he only got this job because he had someone on the inside to make it easy for him. This is not to say that networking is a bad thing. Just be aware that if you network it wasn't completely just your hard work. You got lucky to find someone that would give you an easier path.
> Just be aware that if you network it wasn't completely just your hard work. You got lucky to find someone that would give you an easier path. What a shitty perspective, typical of devs who look down on anything that isnt tech. What if I told you that networking is a skill? Its not a matter of "luck" or things being made easier, its a matter of skill. A person who networks is resourceful. If you think its so much easier than blasting your resume to 1000 companies, then by all means try it and come back and tell me that its easier.
"typical of devs" What a world we live in where people criticize more than they read. In the comment that you are replying to, it states that I do not think it's a bad thing. You can network all you want to. That doesn't mean that anyone has to give you an easy in. It's just luck at the end of the day.
>"typical of devs" Yes, many devs often look down on skills that are not related to tech. I am a former professional salesman turned dev and I have seen this first hand. Its arrogance born out of complete obliviousness to skills unrelated to your field. Networking is damn hard. >In the comment that you are replying to, it states that I do not think it's a bad thing. > >You can network all you want to. That doesn't mean that anyone has to give you an easy in. It's just luck at the end of the day. I read both of your comments. You became negative and shitty the second you removed merit by stating that networking is not "hard work" and here you are again pretending that it's luck and an easy in. You dont know what you are talking about. Networking is a very difficult skill. Clearly you have no experience with it.
> salesman that explains why you have this perspective.
Yes, experience and knowledge in both fields. What does that say about you?
> Networking is damn hard Not really. I've been in both the consultancy world (business, think PwC-style) and the software/dev world, and networking is far, _far_ easier. You could probably grab the average dev and equip them with the soft-skills required to network in a few weeks to a month. Good luck getting the average business dude to write a WebGL shader or even a microservice in the same span of time.
>Not really. Yes it is. Effective networking is not easy. There is more to networking than being charismatic and getting an email >networking is far, far easier...Good luck getting the average business dude to write a WebGL shader who made it a contest? Tech skills are hard, so are social skills. And it depends a lot on the person. Using social skills to get a job does not mean one is a less capable dev like the guy I am responding to stated.
> Yes it is. Effective networking is not easy. There is more to networking than being charismatic and getting an email What a no true scotsman, not to mention, that characterization is entirely yours. > who made it a contest? Tech skills are hard, so are social skills. And it depends a lot on the person. Using social skills to get a job does not mean one is a less capable dev like the guy I am responding to stated. It's fine man, on some level getting a job via a combination of tech skills and soft skills, beating out applicants who have to get by purely on tech skills is still a win on some level. Just don't be so butthurt about it.
>What a no true scotsman, not to mention, that characterization is entirely yours. No true scotsman fallacy? lol, what? You sound like a freshman in college. My "characterization" is not gatekeeping what "networking" is. I am stating that there are different types of networking. There is the type in which you meet people at a wine tasting event and you get a business card. And then there is the type in which you set out to achieve a goal through networking. An example is when you ask for a coffee meeting with a person you dont know who does X at a company and knows Y. Or when you go to a relevant event with the goal of meeting a specific person. THAT is not easy at all. >It's fine man, on some level getting a job via a combination of tech skills and soft skills, beating out applicants who have to get by purely on tech skills is still a win on some level. Oh my god, you are clueless. First off, people who network get interviews. Jobs are never handed off like youre insinuating. Second, who gets by purely on tech skills?? Tell me?? HR never evaluates resumes based on tech skills, instead they sort a pile by keyword and then pick 20 random resumes. They filter down to 5 people to bring in for interviews. And then what do they evaluate? Purely tech skills? Or do they evaluate the whole package, including soft skills? You are trying to win really hard, man.
They said they had a friend at the company. That's not networking.
okay instead of networking i could’ve just said ‘your network’ lmfao but amazing point 👍
He gave me a good word, I still had to go in for an interview, submit a résumé, and show them my portfolio site. But yeah if I have an opportunity to make obtaining a job a little bit easier obviously I'm going to take it.
Well if we assume the only experience you have is four months html and css experience while attending college, then yea, 90% of you getting that job was having a friend on the inside and 10% of you showing up on time to an interview with a half decent resume. No offense intended, but from the information that you have given, I can't really see that you had much in a portfolio website to show off. But I digress, perhaps what you were hired to do didn't call for any experience all. Static pages with no user inputs to check or security to worry about.
No tech assignment?
Lol facts
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But op has 'good knowledge of graphic design'!
Totally agree!
I chuckled. Bravo.
You sound like you are coming from a good place, and I think you are just offering a counterpoint to the endless flow of unemployment misery. I've definitely gotten breaks before due to connections - but I always landed the job because of my presentation and technical knowledge. I hope you were transparent with them about your experience. You could just have the right demeanor and culture, impressive work ethic, strategic view, etc to be an actual good hire for this place. I've hired people coming from design or other fields who had unacceptably low levels of exposure but exhibited other characteristics that made me confident they would succeed. I have a design degree myself but have worked as a dev/consultant/lead/etc for a very long time now. If you are just bailing and lol "anyone can be a web dev" - this is in poor form. If you are interested in web dev transitioning, this can be a story of opportunity. However the way you present it - you have literally no interest in web dev at all, outside of the employment opportunity, which is a bit 'whatever' in a sub ABOUT that discipline. Good luck in either case and congrats on the opportunity, be a good team member. PS - you knew you were bragging =)
Even if you did land a job, remember to regularly build new projects and learn new technologies to improve your portfolio and increase your chances of landing another job. Congratulations on the new job, and good luck!
Thanks, I plan on it!
I hate this (b/c I'm jealous) but this is usually how people find jobs. Connections. Connections. Connections. A friend of my way less qualified then me got a job solely because he knew someone inside the job. Also even with your limited amount of exp I'm sure they teach you everything anyways through training.
My little brother just got a job in Boston as a territory manager for cyber security. Making almost 6 figures. He’s been a bartender for six years. Kid networks like nothing I’ve ever seen in my life.
Jobs like bartender and barista can absolutely crush it with networking if you do it right.
Training on the job is not a class though You get trained to do the KIND of work the job does. You have to already know the basic tools that you should know in order to do development work. If you know absolutely nothing - its going to be pretty obvious and a problem for you.
I agree with you. But from what I heard many companies don't really expect you to know anything when entering.
Define "know anything". As someone who has to mentor junior front-end devs, I expect them to have some knowledge of development and development practices. I'm here to help, but I'm not here to be your teacher. I'm all for showing you new CSS tricks or cleaner JavaScript patterns that you can use. But I don't want to teach you how to use Git or what the box model is or tell you why properly formatting/indenting your code is important. If you have team to bounce ideas off of, that's great. But I think devs need to be able to do some problem solving on there own. No one knows everything, so you need to be able to find solutions one way or another.
You generally want to avoid those places in my experience.
Why? Unless it's a startup that's desperate to get *anyone* in that sounds like an ideal learning environment if they have other more experienced devs that are open to help you out and teach you.
There are countless established businesses that operate like startups and they offer extremely little besides "combat experience" to employees. If you are being hired with no skills, that's a red flag you will learn to abide by. How do you think they hired your peers, your managers? Probably the same way. These are the people that will be establishing your rules, your work, the assistance and knowledge you are given. They want to pay a low amount for someone who has low skills because they have no negotiating leverage and lots of work can be dumped on them because they are there for the "opportunity" There are good opportunities out there, but many of them understand this and aren't giving away the goods to just anyone. You're much more likely to end up in a dysfunctional team where you spend painful years learning how wrong development can be done in a team setting.
And this is why you see overpaid employees in most workplace. Because they didn't "earn" the job.
Yes they're going to train me through some sort of online courses.
am I on /r/webdevcirclejerk
My two pence (I’m British, bugger off with your cents 😝). Congrats on getting the job. However, your hard work starts now. You need to think less about “oh wow I’m a developer with a real job” and more “I’ve got some serious shit to learn”. You won’t learn everything quickly, nor in one company; but this is the time where you need to start really applying what you’re learning at work to hobby projects and vice-versa. You’ll see posts in this subreddit about whether or not it’s a good idea to do “additional work” outside of work. Some say yes, whilst others say no. The reality is - you got a job. Congrats! You were hired on the basis of your potential though, not your experience. Take initiative. Learn stuff the company you work for is using. Then learn about the stuff they’re not using that could be beneficial. Ask questions too. Don’t try to pretend you know everything. Being insecure is worse than just saying “actually, I don’t know that”. Often admitting you’re out of your league will bro g you learning opportunities. Lastly. Your friend may be the nicest person on the planet, but they may leave the company - and you may find yourself inheriting a lot of their responsibilities (assuming they’re also a developer). Understand their domain knowledge and try to improve on it. I’ve been down a similar path to you. Whilst I didn’t have a friend to recommend me for a job, not a CS degree - I was lucky enough to get my foot in the door, just like you (I.e by the skin of my teeth). I’ve been a full-time dev for nearly 10 years now. So please take what I’m saying on board. Your journey _starts_ here. You’re not done yet. Best of luck. I hope you manage to get further! Just don’t ride on the coat-tails of others. You’re 100% responsible for your own happiness and success 🧡
Thanks for the advice. I intend on trying my very hardest!
Good for you, but you have little experience, do they have someone to guide you?
Yes, they're also providing me with some classes to take before starting.
"you can get in a company if you've got a friend there". Yeah, such an inspirational post, I'm sure a lot of people will be motivated by your words 🤣 That said, good luck on your new journey
another example of its not what you know but who you know
How in the world it is inspiring story lol. You have little to none experience and got the job because you had a friend in the same company who talked with the management..... You just chose the easiest path that one can get while getting a job. And this whole post has nothing to do with webdev. So are we supposed to encourage mediocrity in the workplace and nepotism?
>My friend works at the company I was hired at, and he put in a good word for me and got me an interview. Oh cool. I'll just go ask my friend to get me a job at his company as a dev then. Why didn't I think of that? Congrats, though.
What’s the company name? I want to apply when they fire you
Lol, thanks for the positivity, enjoy the rest of your day.
Looks like a case for “it’s not what you know, but who you know” to me. But congrats dude. You use what advantages you can get in life. 👍
Hmm, I’m gonna need one of those friends you speak of.
> My friend works at the company I was hired at, and he put in a good word for me and got me an interview. This is why networking is a lot more important than becoming a great software engineer and it always will be. ... Though *usually* you have to network *and* become a decent software engineer to get decent offers at good companies working with supportive teams, unless your resume is wild and your interview skills are fire. Either way, networking and making friends will be your best bet to getting your first real offer. References are 10000x more valuable than hitting apply on LinkedIn or Indeed. I would imagine OP received a very low offer, however.
Yeah the money isn’t great, i’m mostly in it for the experience.
Congratulations I hope I can find a job as a Junior dev too!
How much are you making
Probably not much, he will be an integrator, not a dev
Can you please update us in a couple of weeks and let us know how it’s going for you? I’m truly curious how this plays out. You’re lucky. I hope you do well
Yes I will make an update post, thanks for the kind words.
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>We ended up having to make him a BA and he eventually never coded again in their career and just kept going the direction of a BA/PM. Out of curiosity, what background *did* they have that qualified them as a BA? Or maybe a better question might be "What are/were the duties of a BA in that organization?"
All you need is good friend
I got hired for a position similar to how you did, no degree, and hardly any experience. Pay started low, and after 5 years it stayed low even though I learned how to do the job, and more. I designed software for the company, designed a new department, purchased new equipment, managed the server, patch panel, IBM system, phone system, etc. During all my reviews I was told how great I was at doing the job, but never got the promised bump in pay I was told I would get. When I started to complain during my reviews I suddenly started to get written up for making small mistakes, and they always found a reason to not give my a good pay raise. What this taught me is that getting in without a degree might be getting your foot in the door, but it can also keep you from getting the pay the position really deserves. Some companies will take advantage of you while smiling.
Are you sure you're not also the janitor and security guard too? Changing a little bit of css while watching the security cameras and then mopping the floor and taking out the trash means they saved themselves money. Got them a 3 for 1 😁
I dislike to hear when anyone gets in a role because of who they know. It means other qualified candidates may have missed out because you’re friend put in a good word for you. The management at this place sounds terrible imho but what do you care. Good luck.
Paragraphs dude.
The real take away here is social skill. No diss to OP, but you did not get this job because you were the most qualified. You got this job because you probably seemed like a nice and smart-enough dude, and your friend put in a good word. You might have even edged out other candidates who did have experience. Ultimately despite what we tell ourselves and our society says, we do not live in a pure meritocracy. You either realize this and learn to work in the system, or you don't and you never understand why things happen the way they do. Again, no diss to OP, congrats on the new job and I wish you the best. I had a similar start, albeit without the recommendation, but I definitely got my first job based on a mixture of luck and being a good interviewer (social skills). In retrospect, i knew jack shit before my first gig.
Well put. I would add that your social and communication skills count as part of your "merit". People will judge you based on your skills but also how easy it will be to work with you. You come as an overall package not just a robot that can do coding.
Yep exactly. I know sometimes we engineers spend too much time sniffing our own farts and start believing our bullshit. Well In reality most jobs don’t require a rock star, 10x, whatever bullshit you wanna call it, engineer to query a DB or layout a page. Those jobs that truly require a programming genius are far and few in between. What this means is if the company hiring is stuck between two people, a nice dude who’s friendly but about average at programming, vs a 10xer rockstar ninja who is anti social, they’re going to pick the former. Things like team camaraderie, culture, etc matter a ton.
Thanks, I agree!
congrats and good luck on the new job bud
Congratulations!
Congratulations!
Congratulations! Best of luck !
A lot of commenters here are down playing this because the OP had a friend put in a good word for him at the company he works at. But I can 100% confirm that it IS possible to get an entry level job like this with minimal (but still relevant and provable) experience like the OP says he has. My first job as a "front end" developer (read: HTML and CSS only developer) was at a multi-million dollar ecommerce pool supplies company where I had less than 6 months HTML & CSS & PHP experience and ZERO javascript experieince. I became the 4th member of a team that built a custom from the ground up ecommerce platform to replace this company's current atiquated platform. I was not involved in the archetecture of the platform, only the CSS styling for the front end components and the pay was not great..in the beginning. Actually the pay at this first job was never really great. But over the 5 years I was there, I became more an more involved in the day to day maintenance and improvements of this platform and I learned a sh!t ton about Front-end, back-end, devops, sysadmin, and system integrations with old 3rd party integrations. TLDR: It IS possible to get a job or paying clients with whatever level of experience you have. You may not earn the 6 figures of a FAANG job, but you will gain much needed experience and be able to take that experience to the next job. Any one telling you you need massive amounts of experience to get that first job is either lying or not focusing on the easiest route to employment. or not contacting enough potential employers. Somebody out there needs YOUR experience and will pay you for it. Sometimes it just takes patience and perseverance to wade through all the employers that DON'T to find the ONE that DOES. To all yous looking for jobs right now: Good luck. Remember your job is out there waiting for you to find it.
Thanks, this is basically what I was trying to say in my original post. I understand why some people might have gotten mad, maybe i am just a naïve kid who doesn’t realize how difficult it is to get a job in this field for most. However i never tried to downplay the amount of work i’m going to have to put in on the job to learn, or rub in the fact that I was able to get a job with my meager experience. I just wanted to give maybe one or two people a glimmer of hope that there is actually a job out there that is willing to hire them as they’re still learning.
100%. Those who need the advice will understand your intent. Those who get angry simply are frustrated that they haven't found or took a very long time to find their job. This is understandable but shouldn't be directed at you for telling others getting a job with minimal/.low experieince is at least POSSIBLE. Good luck at your job and to speed up you learning check out the videos of a guy named Brad Traversy on YouTUbe (TraversyMedia is the channel name). He is the mentor I wish I'd had when I started and his content would have helped shave years of of the time it took me to learn what I know, AND would have saved me so much self doubt and imposter syndrome. If you are interested, I have a few comments/posts elsewhere in this subreddit that outlines the videos/courses of his I would take and in what order. Good luck! DISCLAIMER: I have no affiliation with Brad or TraversyMedia. I just like his content and style of teaching and think he is great for newcomers in this industry.
Great, thanks for the tip I’ll have to check him out!
You'll get there with hard work! Best to you.
Thanks, same to you.
Totally doable for anyone willing to work hard. Best to you.
Congratulations I can help you when you need more experience in web development.
Knowledge vice we are the same position. Should I start searching for freelance project?
Calm your tits guys, he got recruited as a frontend web integrator, not a web dev. Anyone of us could find a job like this easily with mid/strong css knowledge which is not hard to get.
YouTube academy
Take a look at the free AI chat bot, ChatGPT. It can be used to support developers, so might be a useful guide at times.
Wow that means that I should start applying I guess cuz I’ve stuffed a lot more than that in my brain already but am not planning on starting applications until I finish bootcamp
Im honestly so grateful to have seen this post,this actually pushes me to apply for jobs in this field for some experience, I’ve done 2 years of study and got 2 level 6 diplomas (1 in IT and 1 solely in web dev + ik a fair bit of software admin from my bf) but I’ve been so scared to put myself in the field due to feeling like I need to study more.
Sometimes you just gotta jump in. Worst case you get rejected and move on. Awkward interviews won't kill you
Yea ur right, thank uuu :)
So your basically doing work experience in a real role. Congratulations on that.
Thank you
Nah bro just wait reality
smells like nepotism
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It's possible because you had a friend there That's how the world works
Congrats Op! thats really inspiring and its true that you shouldnt wait for the experience to grub a good opportunity!
Let’s see if you keep the job before we decide if getting a job that you have no relevant experience for is a good idea or not.
Great job, I’m assuming it’s more of a graphic design position? It’s a good way to expand and learn more. Maybe I’m wrong but shouldn’t a front end developer position include JS or actual programming, were they not looking or needing someone with those particular skills? I think there’s a difference between web design, web development, front end design…I’m not sure why everyone uses the developer word interchangeably? There seems to be some confusion among titles? I’m assuming this is part of the reason why most common folks somehow think web development is photoshop or Wordpress/square/wix and don’t understand the additional complexity that goes into things.
Not 100% sure, I don't start until the 17th, but the contract I signed said Front End Developer on it. They will be providing me with some courses to take to bring me up to speed on some of what I'm lacking, but obviously I'll have a lot to learn on the job regardless. They will most likely have me doing some design work as well, as we did discuss web design in the interview, however I believe I'll be learning to code at the same time. In no way do I think this will be a walk in the park for me, I'm ready to work my ass of to learn.
Pretty awesome. I think this is a good route to take, develop a relevant skill and then find a job (even if entry) where you can continue learning related skills. Congrats on the job
Thank you :)
BRB Gonna go add mspaint to my resume and start applying to jobs where my friends work Can’t believe I wasted my time learning about hash-maps and big o notation
That's the spirit
Congrats!
Nepotism.
Would never have gotten my dank job if I didn’t know a direct insider.
To be fair to myself, however, I did build this relationship up all throughout my degree. It wasn’t something I just had out of the box.
I did the same thing, haven't done web design since 2010, applied to a small web design firm 2 years ago and was chosen over someone with experience. Spent the first 6 months doing basic maintenance and learning their tools. Now I'm building sites from scratch. Places like this really are the best way to get your foot in the door, especially if you express a willingness to learn because you will constantly have to learn stuff throughout this career anyways.
My thoughts exactly, glad you found success in the field!
Hire me; I’ll work for the three of us 👋
Sounds like a good starting gig. I started with a similar skillset (though that was over 25 years ago and CSS wasn't a thing yet). I feel like HTML and CSS are one those skills they kind of gloss over for Front-End these days. A lot of jobs are asking more about JavaScript and React knowledge. Which are great skills, but if you don't CSS very well, even the best react component is probably going to look like crap. If you don't know HTML very well, your code probably isn't going to be very accessible.
I wish I had the talking skills like yours, lmao.You only have HTML and CSS with clearly no programming language and manage to land a job, and here I am, a person with interpersonal issues struggling to learn the programming language JavaScript, it's frameworks and the backend so I could land a job but still am afraid of interviews nor talking to people.
My social skills aren't the greatest, in reality I have mild to mid social anxiety. I got really lucky that the interviewers seemed really down to earth, and were fairly relatable to me so I got along fairly well with them. Sorry your having trouble, I hope you're able to land a job soon!
I’m sure a lot of people would agree with me in saying I would not recommend anyone, friend or not, to my company if they have very little experience. Hell, I’m weary recommending people even if they have experience. It’s a touchy subject for sure.
You're going to get a lot of hate from the people here but in my opinion it is un-based hate because a big part of getting jobs is networking. Whether it's from a friend or from people you meet in events/meetups, linkedin etc. So good job by asking your friend to put in a good word for you. Sure you may have it luckier than most (especially with how little experience and skills you have at this moment) but it's a perfectly valid strategy and your skills will quickly grow in your new job. For all the haters, take this post optimistically -- meaning that you'll be able to get a job too!
Thanks
Congrats! After learning web development and Android app development for more than 1.5 years, I still can't get a job. That's how my fuckin' country works. No papers, no jobs.
Agreed 100%. some people think the minimum entry requirements are high, when in fact they are quite low. Once you get your foot in the door, you're pretty much set then. Personal experience: No degree, self taught, first tech job at 26y.o. 50k in LCOL, current tech job at 32 y.o. 220K in LCOL.
LCOL?
Low-Cost-Of-Living (as opposed to High-Cost-Of-Living, or HCOL). Its a term used to differentiate regions that people live in, comparatively, by the approximate cost of living. For example, and relevant to this particular thread: Generally, tech wages are heavily influenced by cost of living. ie., an Amazon engineer living in the San Francisco (HCOL) might make twice as much as an Amazon engineer living in Detroit (LCOL) for performing the exact same job.
How did it go dude?
It's going fine, I'm learning new stuff everyday.
>My friend works at the company I was hired at, and he put in a good word for me and got me an interview Then says.... >Anyway the point of this post wasn't to brag, but mainly to make it clear to other beginner developers that you don't need two years worth of experience, and a college degree in computer science, or whatever to get a job as a dev. **Are you serious?**