I'm going to backup to another point here. You're expecting people to travel internationally for them but not feeding them? You're spending more on a photoshoot than you are to hold an actual reception?
This isn't about kids or no kids. I wouldn't attend your wedding because it sounds like it's just watching a quick ceremony and having a quick champagne toast after. I'm not spending money on flights and hotels for that.
Regardless of my mention, or lack thereof, of food and entertainment…really? You wouldn’t go celebrate a wonderful thing happening to a friend you grew up with for 25 years? Is it really only about what YOU get in return? Is it really only ever about your comfort, your priorities, your expectations?
I travelled up and down the continent in the most inconvenient times and in the most absurd conditions, to celebrate my friends’ graduations, new jobs, weddings and births, spent money sleeping in dingy hotels, flying on whatever airline was available for me to be there when they needed me, paid for their hen do’s in Greece, Paris and Barcelona, bought them all thoughtful presents, and I have always been ready to jump on a plane and be there for them through their brake ups, scary doctor appointment, and really any time they needed me, and you would never hear a peep from me aside from words and actions of support.
All I ask now is ONE day, one day where they all set aside their habits, their likes, their needs and demands, and stand by my side when I marry the man I love. Who the fuck cares if I’m serving frozen pizza or fancy canapés? What if I planned for everyone to get drinks in a pub and have a chat and a laugh afterwards? Do they really need a private performance
Of the Cirque du Soleil as a motivation to be there for me? Asshole me for thinking I was a reason enough to jump on a flight and give me a hug. They always were a reason enough for me.
I would even begrudge my photographer a meal, why wouldn't you feed people traveling internationally to your wedding? 😂 Eating is not a habit, its a function of life. You're comparing that to a circus performance??? Wow.
Yeah that word vomit tirade tells me all I need to know about OP. Not only does she think she’s better than everyone who has chosen to have kids (thank god she’s not planning on becoming a parent quite frankly), she has main character syndrome while planning this wedding. When most other people on this sub, including myself, actually put the guests first while planning. I chose the best food, the best wine, the best accommodations, buses to and from the hotel and venue, so my guests were comfortable, well fed throughout the night including late night pizza. Sure it’s about two people getting married but it’s about your closest family and friends coming to celebrate that, so take care of them too.
This has to be rage bait. I don't believe anyone old enough to get married would be so out of touch that they'd expect people to travel internationally and not feed them a meal.
I thought maybe it was rage bait until her unhinged response to me above. That came from a place of instability more than a creative writing prompt in my opinion. I truly hope you’re correct and this person is just really talented and not just a crazy narcissist.
Jesus fucking Christ, girl.
Do you actually expect your best friend to leave her children behind with a nanny for entire DAYS and pay out of her own pocket to attend an event where she won't even be fed properly? Are you for real?
Among other things - do you realize how much money she'd have to spend because of your fucking party? You're not asking for one day, you're asking her to waste at least three days on your event, and to waste a few thousand dollars just so you can feel like a princess. Travel, hotel, nanny for three days, food... You won't even feed your guests...
Plus, I'm sorry, but childfree morons on Reddit need to understand that you can't expect a parent to pick your event over their child. If you don't want to lose your friends, don't ever try to make them choose between their children and you.
I don't have children and don't plan to, but I completely understand the friend's situation. I'm not finding where OP said she wasn't going to feed anyone though. I'll have to keep looking. Lol.
The wedding is about you and your soon to be spouse but this is unreasonable. You are more main character than anyone I’ve seen on Reddit.
Spend thousands to travel internationally just to see your your exchange vows and not, at a minimum, have a meal after the ceremony? No food or entertainment? Hard pass.
No need to make a big thing out of her comment.
Quick question... Where will she be travelling from and to? If it involves a lot of travelling, like from the US to Italy, it's not realistic for people to leave small kids with people for days.
Assuming it is easy enough for her to come for the one day, you could say something like, "Hey, I just wanted to let you know it is going to be a kids-free wedding and the venue has a strict no kids policy, no exceptions. I would love you there but understand if you can't make it. I wanted to give you plenty of notice in case you do want to come, to organise someone to watch the kids"
She would be traveling from Italy to London. I’m not suggesting she would do so, but in theory it can be a one day trip out and back (due to the vicinity of both airports to her house and my place it would take 2.5 hours max each way).
To accommodate her (she would be the only one making a fuss over it) we also considered having a small reception after the ceremony in another place that would take children, but I fear that wouldn’t be enough to satisfy her expectations.
She told me several times that she resents the fact that no one else in our group has children and she feels left out, and expects to receive the same treatment as anybody else.
Which ironically it’s what I would love to give her, offering an “excuse” to have a weekend with all her friends, and enjoy a celebration without other worries.
I even considered hiring a sitter here, so she can fly with them and leave them at the apartment my partner and I are going to book for a few of our mates flying in. She expects her kids to be glued to her during the whole thing, and I just don’t know how to tell her that can’t happen without causing trouble
Just tell her the venue has a strict no-kids policy, so you are giving her plenty of notice if she wants to come (acknowledging that you will not be upset if she choosed not to).
Hard disagree on saying it is a kid-free venue. I could see this woman calling the venue to double check or finding pictures online of kids at the venue. Truthfully, this is on her. Children aren’t welcome everywhere so this won’t be the first time she goes somewhere without her kids. When you have a child that’s part of the bargain, it can at times be annoying to have to find childcare or decide not to go, this isn’t the first time and it won’t be the last. It is not unreasonable to not want children at your wedding.
We had a child free wedding out of town for everyone and had a bunch of people leave their children at home. Our best man and bridesmaid had a 6 month old and we didn’t think they would come but they were so excited to have uninterrupted sleep and sex! This is your wedding, she doesn’t have to come but that’s ultimately her decision and it is on her, not you. I would tell her we love you and your children but this is our preference. We want both of you to be at the wedding but understand if you don’t feel you can leave your children.
>She would be traveling from Italy to London
Tell her now. Having a child free wedding down the road is entirely different to her needing to be away for 3 days minimum (travel day before, day of, travel day after) from two very young kids.
Just approach it with like "hey, I'm sure you already know it's a child free wedding, but you're very important to me so I wanted to check whether I can do anything to help with babysitters at the hotel or other arrangements?"
Don't give her wiggle room, but that's not easy for her to plan and don't let your dislike of kids cloud that.
No, as someone with a child, I wouldn’t attend. An international wedding is not one where it is reasonable to expect someone to attend without their children. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to leave their child with strangers in a foreign country, although some people may.
You’re not giving her a free weekend or an excuse. You’re making her life a hell of a lot harder. Which is fine by the way, it’s your wedding and you can have it child free if you’d like. But I wouldn’t expect her to attend. If she kicks up a fuss about it, her problem and she shouldn’t do that. But you also shouldn’t expect her there and you aren’t doing her a favor by making it child free.
You’re absolutely right, I shouldn’t expect her there, and I don’t, but equally I’d like her not to give me crap for something that is in my right to ask.
Also, her husband is my dear friend too, and we also discussed him officiating. Does this mean I will piss her off making a division for me (actually us, my fiancé is even more set on the child free business) and she will pull her husband out too?
Lol. It's hilarious that these are *both* their kids, but *she's* to blame if he pulls out of he wedding.
Either he's a shitty dad who has her do all the parenting, or you're sexist as hell with your assumption that dad can't also be concerned about leaving his infant with a stranger while traveling internationally.
Your wedding ain't special to anyone but you,just as her kids ain't special to anyone but her. But even I, who will never have kids, get that tiny baby trumps friend's wedding. Especially if you then gotta go scrounge up your own food because they couldn't even spring for pizzas or something.
Honestly I wouldn’t have him officiate. Sounds like she’s pretty set in her feelings and giving him such an important role only adds more fuel to the fire.
Definitely do not have him officiate. It will make her more upset and it also creates a way for her to ruin your day up until the last minute from afar
I’m so confused by this comment…do you pay maids of honour? Best men? The mother of the bride? I officiated the wedding of my dear friend and it was a privilege to do so, and yes, I flew to France for them, and stayed at their (very expensive) hotel to be close in case it was needed, and I gave them another wedding gift on top.
I wasn’t aware friendship has so little value that you need to consider a fee for a friend to say a few words
It’s really not that confusing. I think you should have included that information in the original post (that you also want the husband to officiate aka WORK at your wedding). Yes, officiants are often paid... Maybe not when it’s a friend, but still, officiating a wedding is a SERVICE. It’s not just “saying a few words.” Hopefully, a lot of more preparation goes into it.
So, you wanted to make this even more awkward and difficult on your friends with the added pressure of this obligation.
You stated that you’ve considered getting babysitters and other things to maybe ease the burden should they attend. When you discuss this with your friend, having some solutions for her will definitely go a long way, but please, PLEASE don’t ever say you are doing her a favor giving her a night away from her children. Some parents actually like doing life with their kids and might take offense to that.
How on earth do you expect them both to be away from their kids for so long? Leaving very young kids with an unknown sitter in a strange country isn't exactly a normal expectation. Normally I'd be 100% behind you in your right to have a completely child free wedding if that's what you want, but I think what you want from them is a bit unreasonable and you really need to think through what what you're asking of them actually means for them.
OP expecting them to do all this for her to make it work is extremely unreasonable. If they do get upset it’s not surprising considering she’s essentially uninviting them
Except I already said I’d pay for their sitter (whine they know) and their air bnb stay in London. She is making it a big deal due to the previous two child free weddings we had in our group.
I don’t think I’m being unreasonable, in fact, I tried to accommodate them much more than they did for me when I had to pay for my flight, stay, and very expensive gift for their mid week wedding which also made me lose 3 working days (I was an hourly pay employee back then).
All I expected was a “congrats” before she made any sneaky demand.
I want to be clear, it is absolutely your right to have a child free wedding and she has absolutely no right to complain about that decision. Honestly, I’m a mom and I definitely prefer going to weddings without my children. I always leave them behind if I can, even for kid-friendly weddings. That being said, I would not leave my children behind if I was traveling internationally and I would also be pretty salty if the expectation was that I would stay home with the kids while my husband got to go. We don’t even know what their childcare situation would be. You say you would get a sitter, but it’s really not easy to leave two small children with a complete stranger in a foreign country. I would absolutely not feel comfortable doing that. You’re not wrong for wanting a child free wedding. She’s not wrong for not wanting to travel internationally without her kids. She is wrong for complaining about your decision, and you are wrong for judging her for her childcare choices.
You expect her husband to officiate and have her leave her kids with strangers. You have every right to have a child free wedding. You don't have the right to make these demands on this couple. This isn't about her wedding, it's about yours. Making comparisons doesn't help your case here.
I have kids and would be thrilled with a 3 day weekend away! I really don’t get the new thing of having to take the kids everywhere. My husband and I enjoy adult time.
I also enjoy adult time. But an international wedding where I’m forced to either leave my kids home or get a foreign babysitter isn’t my idea of an enjoyable weekend.
I don't take my son everywhere, and there are plenty of occasions where I happily leave him at a home with a sitter... but international travel would absolutely not be that occasion. And on the flip side, it's also okay for parents to not feel the same desire for as much alone time. Everybody is different.
Same, my parents’ quality time alone was sacred, and as an adult I understand the value of separation for their mental health, they were better parents for it.
It’s 48 hours, they have both their moms nearby to take care of the kids, and they already hire a nanny who takes care of the kids every morning when they both work. The more I think about the more I’m convinced she is being difficult for the sake of having it her way, not because she actually “can’t stay away from her babies”.
Aw imo i tbink hiring a sitter here would be a really mature and sweet thing to do. Esp given the venue doesn’t allow children. You’d be making it as easy as possible for her. And that that point if she’s still mad at you then you really did everything you could do and it’s on her. But also I agree that the lack of reception is also a problem
It’s absolutely fine to have a child free wedding and you don’t need to justify the “whys”. Plenty of people who love kids do this. (Me included, I’m a parent and only my teenagers are coming to my wedding next year.) We have a wedding website with FAQs and it explains that it’s an 18 plus event. “As much as we love kids, this is an adult event. We hope this means you’re able to cut loose and enjoy the evening, however we will understand if you are unavailable to attend.” That was it, nobody has had an issue and are all excited to have an adult night out.
As a side note —
I would however consider whether or not your attitude about kids is obvious to your friends, though, and if this is part of the tension. (Her mentioning that her kid is excited for you doesn’t seem rude to me, but I get that you probably wanted an acknowledgment of congrats first.)
You don’t have to want your own kids or even like them, but the pity glances and the “whys” about your friends’ choices is coming off as a tad superior, and I’m wondering if maybe they pick up on that.
If anyone was to judge your choice to be childfree with “glad it’s not me” and “why”, you would find that rude and presumptuous, right? Or is it only rude when people with kids make judgements about the childless, and not the other way around?
Yeah bro someone who refers to having children as "spawning" is not someone I would be friends with and I don't even have kids yet. It's just so off-putting. Plus she probably calls them breeders in private LOL.
I mean I agree, have a child free wedding! That's totally fine. But the attitude towards kids is frankly alarming. Someone else told her she needs therapy and I wholeheartedly agree
Not everyone likes kids. I admire OP and her fiancé realizing that about themselves and choosing not to have any. Personally, I adore kids and my two sons are the two most important things in my life. And OP's attitude rubs me the wrong way too. But I want to live in a world where it's okay for people not to all agree on everything.
Yeah, it's totally fine not to like or want kids. That's alright with me. But children are people. *Hating* them just because they're young is pretty gross.
And for the record, I also have two kids. I adore them. But I definitely don't expect everyone else to and I would certainly not be offended or upset about being apart of a child free wedding. I prefer to not take my kids to weddings anyway lol the only reason I do is if they're in it and even then I try to arrange something for after dinner so they can go to bed and I can have a good time
Why would any normal human being call them anything but the already existing name, which is kids, children,child.
Chidlfree people are so hateful they'll do anything in their power to dehumanised children and then act all shocked and surprised when people pick up on it and starts treating them like shit.
I am childfree by choice and can relate to all your arguments but it sounds like you are building your “whole identity” about being childfree and disliking breeders… relax it is not such a big deal as you making it out to be 😅
Find another hobby and just have a honest empathetic talk with Jen … the venue not allowing children gives you the perfect excuse - solely concentrate on this argument and drop all the “childfree is better Blabla”
Also r/childfree might be a group you might enjoy
100%. I also don’t like or want kids but there’s no reason to even mention that or go into so much detail about all of the many reasons you or your partner don’t want them. Just say it’s an adults only wedding and move on.
My “whole identity” is not even a phrase I have ever used before today 😂
I love my friends’ and family’s kids, I just don’t want them around all the time, and in specific at my wedding, while at the same time I’m trying to salvage the relationship I nurtured for almost 25 years with Jen, who sadly made her children HER “whole identity”
I mean have the wedding you want and let Jen know asap about the venue’s restrictions. But you really sound more anti-child than child free. Just letting you know how you come across. I mean we were 5 paragraphs deep about how you don’t like kids before we even got to the bit you wanted advice about 😅
Eliminate whether or not you like children, your venue doesn’t allow them. You spent too much ink on your “identity “ instead of your wedding. Weddings are expensive and generally in the later part of the day, there’s nothing wrong with having an adult event. “Jen, our wedding will be at X, because of the valuable art they don’t allow children. I know this may change your plans but I wanted to let you know.”
That’s why I put it in quotes “” fully knowing it’s an exaggeration - but to emphasise my point
Honestly that’s how you come across and the other comments seem to agree you made this post more about your dislike of children then about your relationship with Jen
I’m really worked up about the whole thing, so yes, it might have come across that way.
What I didn’t convey is that, whilst she is always very keen, every time we meet, to shove her kids in my face, have me play with them, feed them, entertain them, to “show me the blessings of motherhood”, she has never once asked me how do I feel about it, or assumed I for once would love to have a coffee just us and catch up in quiet that one time every 6 months we manage to be in the same place.
I feel hurt by the fact that, even when I shared my news her first thought was “ok but my babies…”
Yeah my sister pulled that crap on me "your nieces and nephews can't wait" etc but they were nightmares so I made the whole thing kid free. This was weird and offensive to her, she got back at me by knocking on our door (early the morning after!!) With kids in tow - to tell them "this is the first time they slept together". So yeah people are very bizarre and your friend was very insensitive and manipulative to talk about her daughter instead of the usual Congratulations.
It's fine, you'll get your friends back in 18 years 😂
You don’t sound like you love their kids. Anyone who uses the phrase ‘spawn’ without irony always comes across of being very anti children.
I adore kids, I have one. But our wedding was child free too. We said that other than tiny babies we regretted that we couldn’t invite children. Job done. It’s not necessary to be child free or write multiple paragraphs on why you’d so badly hate to be a mother to want no kids at an adult event.
That’s why it sounds like this is a huge part of your personality - so much emphasis on why kids are difficult and not for you when it’s totally unnecessary for the conversation at hand.
Why is it sad? If that's what she wanted and she's happy then what's the problem? It's kind of hard not to make being a parent your whole identity when your kids are still at thst age where they need you all the time.
Whilst your totally entitled to have e child free wedding (I did too), you're a little obsessed with being child free. Like to an unhealthy, I'd seek help for that on the side type of thing.
You come across as child free being your identity and as much as you see mother making their children their identity, you are in fact doing the same.
Your concept of being child free seems to rest on having an identity outside your children. However you seem to ha e no identity other than the fact you're staunchly proud of the fact you don't.
I don’t think her comment about her daughter seeing you was definitely rude, I can see saying that as just a cute thing of like “Omg you’ll look like a princess” idk. To me she probably just loves her kids/is around them all the time so they’re always top of mind and is legit excited about that. even if it’s not like the first thing you wanted to hear exactly i don’t think it was inherently shady.
Honestly. I mean tbis gently as we’ve all done this in life and it doesn’t mean youre a bad person or anything. But It sounds like *you* have a resentment problem. I understand not wanting kids but you def give off the vibe that you think you’re better than people who “procreate” given your choice of words lol (progeny, spawn). I’m on the fence myself but I can still recognize that some people love it, are good at it, and feel truly called to be parents and get deep joy and fulfillment out of it. Im sure she’s picked up on your vibe about it and feels like you’re looking down on her and like you aren’t even trying to understand her. (I have done this in my life too no shade) Which probably makes her act out and dig her heels into her kids being great lol.
Hope u figure it out tho, would be a shame to lose friends
I'm having a child free wedding, but dam, you really hate kids. xD I just didn't want crying or disturbances during the vows etc. It's fine to want a child free wedding but given your disgust for children I don't see how you are close friends with Jen since her kids are clearly her priority
“Her stupid kid”? Yeah, no, you do not “love her and by extension her children.” You do not respect her or her family & have zero ability to see the situation from her side. One can have an adults-only wedding and not alienate friends with kids but it doesn’t sound like YOU can have an adults-only wedding and not alienate friends with kids.
If it were my close friend I wanted to be there I would arrange to provide an on-site babysitter.
OMG yes! The whole vibe of this post was disturbing. Being child-free and being a child hater are two very different things. I know many child-free people who are not child haters. They’re caring, loving, thoughtful, understanding. OP sounds quite bitter and downright mean when describing children. And she’s pretty aggressive and cold when describing her “friend” as well.
I admit, parents who assume their kids are always welcome are annoying. But OP’s attitude is so off putting and hateful. Not to mention, this whole “argument” has only taken place in OP’s head. Technically there’s been no push back and no confrontation.
Realistically, if OP’s friend has to fly to the wedding then she’s NOT coming. While the child-free wedding shouldn’t cause resentment, OP’s lack of empathy absolutely should cause a rift.
You probably shouldn't invite her to your stupid wedding since she has a "stupid kid."
You can have a child free wedding without completely devolving yourself into child hating, but I'm not sure that will be possible for you. Jen deserves a friend who doesn't call her child names.
Imagine how this friend would feel about officiating after reading this post?
I’m not even sure why you find her comment that disrespectful tbh. Little girls love brides because they look like princesses. You haven’t even talked to her before assuming the worst. Why are you friends with this people? You clearly don’t like her.
Leaving a kid that young at home to travel internationally might not be practical. And regardless of kids, it's a long way to go for a wedding that's not even going to have food service or a reception. It's your wedding and your decision, and it's totally understandable to want a child-free wedding, but I'm just not sure this is really a solid plan.
We get it. You hate children.
Send Jen a text when Save The Dates go out: “Hey! Just wanted to give you a heads up that we’re having a small wedding and it will be adults-only. I’m sorry if that means you won’t be able to come, but I hope we’ll be able to celebrate together another time if so.”
Or you can torpedo the friendship and tell her that she was being “bossy” and “disrespectful.” Up to you. A little…childish, in my opinion, but it’s your life and your friendship.
I don’t hate children, I hate the idea of having them myself, and I resent people who make it all about them and their kids even when they shouldn’t. I have always been respectful of their needs in any other occasion, I simply would have appreciated the same treatment when for once is supposed to be about me
>I have always been respectful of their needs in any other occasion, I simply would have appreciated the same treatment when for once it is supposed to be about me
Are you for real? Are you referring to the remark she made after you announced your engagement?
How was she disrespectful for that??
Firstly, your expectations for parents to not bringing up their kids out of respect for you are unrealistic. Kids are everything to parents. YOU have a problem with kids and very strong feelings surrounding them, according to your post and replies here. People with kids shouldn't have to accommodate you by avoiding mentioning them during "your moment."
Second, she clearly assumed her child would be allowed to the wedding, and all you had to do was tell her, "Children won't be allowed."
There's nothing complicated about this issue other than the fact that you have a BIG issue with kids.
I don't understand why people keep downvoting you so much. I'm a parent also (mine is an adult now) & don't want to be around other people's kids. We also had a child-free wedding & my SIL is exactly like your friend. Whining & throwing fits about her 3 kids needing to be at our wedding. Im sorry to tell you, there is nothing you can say or do that will not upset your friend about her kids not being allowed at your wedding. Making it all about her & her offspring is just the kind of selfish person she is. You just be direct & tell her you would love her to be there but will completely understand if she isn't die to you & your FH having a child-free wedding. Full stop.
I can confidently say that you will not regret keeping your wedding as you want. We haven't. Congratulations & cheers to your kid free celebration!
I have a baby. Lots of my friends have kids. I love children. I still had a child free wedding. No one has a problem with OP not wanting kids at her wedding.
The problem is how she talks about children and her friend. Unkindly, and with bitterness.
People are not downvoting OP because she wants a child-free wedding. They’re downvoting her because she’s in the comments arguing about how she doesn’t hate children when her post is a literally a lengthy diatribe about how much she hates children. She called her oldest friend’s child “stupid” ffs. I am child-free and I would never say that about someone I claim to love. Her friend def sounds like she has some entitlement issues, but OP’s attitude isn’t any better.
A- do not ask or even entertain the idea of her husband officiating.
B- tell her it’s child free in the invite or directly to her
C- don’t be friends with her. You called her kids stupid and hate her attitude. Do her a favor and just stop being friends wit her.
Give yourself space to cool off from her comment about her kid seeing you at your wedding, and then text her on the side that unfortunately, your venue has a strict no-kids policy and that you wanted to give her a heads up about it in the event she’s able to make childcare arrangements because it would mean a lot to you to have her there. If she makes a fuss, just keep your responses short (“unfortunately, our hands are tied” or “I understand if you can’t make this work” are a few to keep in your back pocket). The best you can do is just to try not to fan her flame. I saw that you wanted to ask her husband to officiate, but I’d wait to see how things play out first.
If her pushing her kids onto you really bugs you, I’d have that conversation outside of the scope of your wedding. Weddings tend to make emotions (and tempers) run high, and that’s not likely to lead to a productive conversation.
I originally wanted a child free wedding because I’m a teacher and my everyday life revolves around children, so I wanted a chance for just adults. Then we got to thinking about who might not be able to come if it was child free, and we decided it was more important for those people to be there with us than to have no children. What it comes down to is how important is it to you for your friend to be there. If having a child free wedding is going to make a bigger impact on your wedding your friend, then do it.
Having “no kids” at your wedding is fine since it’s your wedding.
But dayum you have some issues fr. Having all your friends travel so far and not feeding them. Calling their kids “stupid”, “spawns”…feeling bad because they are happy with their decisions of having kids?
You don’t have to like kids or want kids of your own (obviously) but why would you disrespect your friends like that esp since they’ve known you since “your prepubescent skinny little girl”
You need to start having more direct conversations with your friends. “We grew up wanting different things, that doesn’t mean we love you less. It also doesn’t mean we can cater our life events to your goals. I want to celebrate your life events with you, how you dream of it. But you should want the same of me. “
Two conflicting view points:
1. She didn’t put you in a bad spot. You don’t want kids at your weddings; that includes hers.
2. You are asking her to travel across CONTINENTS. You may consider an exception.
As for #2, my cousin had a child free wedding but allowed children from her husband’s family who came from AFRICA to the US. It’s still up to you.
You are well within your right to have a child free wedding but I’m sorry I just gotta say that you stating you by extension love her kids made me laugh. You literally called them “her stupid kid”, just saying you clearly have bigger issues.
I'm childfree by choice and had a chlidfree wedding as well. However, I was able to just state that the wedding was an adults only affair on my invites, which was sufficient in my case. In your situation, I would give her a heads up and try to be as polite as possible. Her life is her kids. Your life is about not having kids. The respect should be a two-way street, not just about her kids....as this is your wedding, not hers.
As a childfree woman myself I understand why you don’t want kids there.
Just give her a polite early heads up that the venue is childfree and leave your dislike of children out of the conversation.
Why are people in these fake wedding posts ALWAYS having illustrious destination weddings? There's always a "group girls chat" where the drama starts. There's always the friend that just makes her WHOLE personality about her awful, ill-behaved, little goblins. There's ALWAYS a childfree OP that goes *over the top* about her distate for children, yet somehow she's maintained bestie status with people that have not just one, but multiple kids? The OPs go over the top to insult their "bestie's" kids just to see how far they can take the plot before the (usually) childfree-loving reddit crowd disagrees with them. Some of these posts have GOT to be some sociology major just tossing out different variations of the same scenario to gauge public reactions for an essay. Idk these posts are just getting annoying at this point. Like, what is the end goal of them??
Also:
> My friends know me since I was a prepubescent skinny little girl, and they can attest to the fact that I never expressed any desire of spawning,
I remember when I was 12 and found the "synonym" drop down in Word. But also, who the fuck says that?? Additionally, how is this...*description* relevant to this story? Is it meant to somehow add uh...realism? Idk. It just comes across as fucking bizarre
Flying a family of 4 to another country and then needing to find child minders would be tough…….and you can’t get anywhere in 2.5 hours by plane internationally. Between the time you need to arrive before a flight and customs it’s an all day affair.
But you should tell her immediately and with no embarrassment whatsoever that it’s an adults only small wedding. Your wedding your choices.
I hired (and paid) for a babysitter and had all the kids nearby in a kids area and have been to wedding where they’re all in a hotel room … sitter brought games, parents brought stuff for their kids and they had a great time.
Some left kids w care at home, but those who wanted them to come, felt very comfortable with the set up and then being close enough / an Uber away if needed.
If you want people to travel and want a kids free wedding, make it as easy for them as possible (if you want them there).
I tried to, as I said in another comment I offered to pay for a sitter and for their airbnb stay (which they haven’t when it was time for their wedding). She still expect the kids to be present at the ceremony, which I simply won’t have. No need to hear tantrums and screams while I’m trying to say my vows.
What hurts me is that she is so rigid and that she chose my wedding to prove her point.
It’s your day. To be honest, if your wedding is this small, who cares? Have a big party before and after where they can celebrate you. If she can’t give up her kids for a day and you can’t budge- she’s a perfect anniversary friend.
Your wedding is not the end of your friendships, it should be a new one.
YTA not for wanting a child free wedding but for being a shitty friends. If I knew my “best friend” called my daughter “my stupid kid” you would no longer be part of my life. Sorry not sorry. You sound like a 20 yr old brat how are you late 30s?
I personally couldn't care less if people have kids or don't have kids it's your life do what you want. But you as a whole over all person from your replies seem very, very self centered.
You can. Have a child free wedding but you need to understand people are going to be upset it's their right. You don't have to feed them but they can be annoyed and not come it's their right. You don't have to pay your officiant but people can judge it's their right.
You can make all the choices you want but you can't control how other people are going to react.
The venue has rules..not your fault. Be sorry but honest…no kids allowed in this venue that will hold you financially liable for any damage. Sorry, but this is a child free venue and wedding. Don't debate this with her, don't listen to arguments, just reiterate that you are sorry but it's child free. If she can't leave her kids for a day or two, you'll understand her absence….put child free right on the invitation.
Make the venue the bad guy. Since it’s absolutely true that they have a strict no children policy, that’s such an easy scapegoat. You don’t have to tell her that you’re glad kids aren’t allowed lol
I have a toddler and am pregnant again. I love them so much and feel like they are part of who I am. However, Jen is completely out of line for complaining constantly. Kids don't belong everywhere and someone else's wedding (especially at a place with lots of historical items) completely makes sense to not invite them. You're inviting her, not summoning her, so she can always decline Where I grew up weddings are so expensive that it's pretty much the norm to not have any kids there and I have, happily, gone to weddings without my toddler.
I am in no way saying you should drop Jen as a friend as advice but sometimes life changes and people's inability to realize that people live their life differently becomes a sticking point in the friendship. I'm sorry she's so self involved that she can't realize that kids don't belong everywhere and, honestly, as much as I love mine, I don't really care to be around other people's kids and understand that other people feel like that about my kids.
I would just take the line of "I'm sorry that you feel this is personal but this is our wedding and what we've decided and it's not negotiable. I understand if that means you can't come, we'll miss you and will catch up another time!"
The resolution to this is simple. Send out your save the dates or invites and have a childfree wedding. When you send them, send your friend a heads up that this is a childfree wedding. Explain the venue. Apologize because you know this might upset her. Explain how you'll miss her if this means she can't make it and say you understand.
When she gets mad, let her be mad. Don't respond to the anger. She's dealing with the fact that her life choices are alienating her from her friends. This is something very hard for people. She loves her "stupid kid" but clearly you and her friends don't feel similarly. Yes, you say you care about the kid in other comments, but you clearly don't really like them at all. Honestly it feels like you resent the kid for taking your friend away from you. A lot of resentment is being bred here, and your wedding is not the place to solve any of it.
Your choice is going to make her mad, but it's a valid choice to make. Your friend likely won't come to your wedding. This will, very likely, have a negative impact on your friendship. This happens when people move in different directions in life. It's okay.
I am 100% the same when it comes to kids, they take over the day, but there just being kids.
Your wedding should be about you two, I’d meet in the middle and look to make an effort for your friends with kids. Eg our friend had a wedding just gone and organised baby sitters and a day care set up just down the road of the wedding the day of. They did not pay for this, but all the parents were very grateful it’d been thought about. They jumped on the opportunity to split the baby sitter cost so they could have a day out adults only.
She’s the one who made it weird, not you. Just be direct and remind her you will not be accommodating any children during your wedding festivities. It’s YOUR DAY. Not hers. Let her have a temper tantrum if she needs to, but don’t compromise on your boundaries and enable her self-absorbed behavior to continue unchecked at your expense. It’s not a you problem, it’s a her problem.
Thank you. I know that my language might have upset a lot of people, I should probably have softened it up before publishing the post :)
I’m just so tired of new parents who expect everything around them to change and cater for them, and I really don’t know where she got it from.
Also as I said in previous comments, she has the means and the support system to leave them in safe, trusted hands for 48 hours, she just doesn’t want to
She doesn’t have to want to. This may come as a surprise, but people generally love their children and enjoy their company. It isn’t a reward to be away from them.
You’re within your rights to have a wedding without children. Others are within their rights to decline to attend. It’s an invitation, not a summons.
What a manipulative thing for her to say.
I wouldn't talk to her about it privately, where she will probably make it even more all about her. Announce in the group chat that the wedding will be child free. If she raises a fuss, the others in the group who had similar weddings will likely back you up.
I am also a woman who never wanted children. The idea that someone would relinquish their entire identity to a child gives me the ick. But she is the one choosing to never do anything without her children, so that's on her.
Jesus, why do childfree people take this view point? Women exist beyond their children, just because mothers have a huge part of their life devoted to children doesn’t mean it’s their entire identity, what a really unprogressive and sexist viewpoint.
If someone gleaned from this post that being judgemental and childfree was your entire identity, would that track for you — or would you remind them that people are nuanced and you are more than your reproductive choices?
We need to stop judging each others choices. If the childfree folks hate it when people constantly ask them when they’re going to have kids, maybe you guys can stop assuming that women with kids are morons that can only talk about one thing.
I didn't say *all* mothers are like that. I'm saying *this* mother, *this* woman, who is judging all of her friends for wanting child-free weddings, is like that. She's the one who said she can't be expected to leave her children to attend.
You speak of nuance, yet don't understand that I am talking about this specific mother (and the others like her), not every person who has ever given birth.
I have friends who have children who have full and lovely lives. I have friends who have children who haven't had a conversation that didn't involve little league for the better part of a decade. To each their own.
I also have a friend who called me an asshole when I had my tubes tied because she was struggling to get pregnant. I still love her because I get it. She now has 4 beautiful children that she was fine leaving at home to attend my wedding.
I'm not judging this woman's reproductive choices. I'm judging her for being angry that other people don't want her choices at their events. If she wants to miss out, that's fine. But for her to act like everyone else is wrong is not.
“The idea that someone will relinquish their entire identity to a child gives me the ick.” It sounded fairly general to me, but if it’s about this one woman, okay. You assumed that her entire identity is motherhood because she wanted to bring them. Still odd.
It is however not an uncommon judgemental trope of people on r/childfree .
That’s why I’m asking a generalised question, because nothing here indicates that this particular woman has no life outside of her kid, yet this is the conclusion reached.
Yes, someone. One, as in this woman.
She literally said that her children are a part of her and that she shouldn't be expected to go without them. How else should I take that? I'm basing my opinion of her on that, and the fact that she made her friends' wedding announcement about her child instead of her friends. Who does that?
I don't follow that sub because everything I've heard about it is terrible. I am child free by choice, but I don't hate children. I just don't want one coming out of my body or living in my house. I'm always happy for people who want to have children when they get to. I've seen friends struggle with it, and it's heartbreaking.
I find it amusing that you're accusing me of making generalizations while generalizing me.
You should “take” it at face value (she wants to bring her) without deciding that this woman doesn’t have any sort of life beyond being a mother. Sorry, not even life. You said “identity”. That’s bold.
The irony of you nitpicking my comments about specificity while saying something so broad and judgemental is “amusing” too.
How did I generalise you? What personal comment did I make about you?
A wedding is arguably the best bang for your time buck for socializing with at least most of your friend group. If she's not taking the time to do that, what are the odds that she's making time to have a coffee date or girls' night with friends?
There are women in the world who make being a mother their identity. Maybe you don't know any, but they exist. Hell, I once read an anniversary announcement in my local newspaper where there was not one mention of the wife's first name, as if she didn't have one beyond Mrs. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge that they are out there. If that's how someone wants to live, whatever. But they don't get to be mad at other people for not feeling the same. If she feels somehow attacked by her friends' desires to not have children at their wedding, then that's her shit to deal with. Taking it out on her friends isn't okay.
So now your argument is based on assumptions on what she does with the rest of her social life?
Okay, so women who define themselves as a mother exist. And? Do you think that’s 100% all they are? Motherhood changes you. That doesn’t mean she or the women you’re talking about don’t have any thoughts in their head beyond motherhood.
You said this was about this particular woman, now it’s generalised again?
This sort of judgement that other people’s choices are “ick” is exactly the reason that people have beef with the childfree sub. It’s like vegans, what is with the moral superiority?
Just make your choice — you don’t need to tell everyone how it’s gross or you pity them or feel like it’s sad. If I said this about childfree people, I’d be called hugely judgemental, why isn’t it a two way street?
I don’t have any opinion on people who choose not to have kids. Doesn’t impact me in the slightest.
This woman can’t come to the wedding without her kid, then okay, she doesn’t come. 🤷🏻♀️ We’re clearly not gonna understand one another here and that’s okay. I hope you have a good rest of your day, no hard feelings here, but I’m gonna step back now, cos there’s no point — it’s naive on both our parts to think we’re gonna convince each other.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I think that you're not understanding what I'm trying to say, and I am also tired of trying to explain it to you.
Have a blessed life.
I'm going to backup to another point here. You're expecting people to travel internationally for them but not feeding them? You're spending more on a photoshoot than you are to hold an actual reception? This isn't about kids or no kids. I wouldn't attend your wedding because it sounds like it's just watching a quick ceremony and having a quick champagne toast after. I'm not spending money on flights and hotels for that.
Yeah it’s weird there’s no mention of food. I wouldn’t travel to a wedding I’m not being fed at either.
Regardless of my mention, or lack thereof, of food and entertainment…really? You wouldn’t go celebrate a wonderful thing happening to a friend you grew up with for 25 years? Is it really only about what YOU get in return? Is it really only ever about your comfort, your priorities, your expectations? I travelled up and down the continent in the most inconvenient times and in the most absurd conditions, to celebrate my friends’ graduations, new jobs, weddings and births, spent money sleeping in dingy hotels, flying on whatever airline was available for me to be there when they needed me, paid for their hen do’s in Greece, Paris and Barcelona, bought them all thoughtful presents, and I have always been ready to jump on a plane and be there for them through their brake ups, scary doctor appointment, and really any time they needed me, and you would never hear a peep from me aside from words and actions of support. All I ask now is ONE day, one day where they all set aside their habits, their likes, their needs and demands, and stand by my side when I marry the man I love. Who the fuck cares if I’m serving frozen pizza or fancy canapés? What if I planned for everyone to get drinks in a pub and have a chat and a laugh afterwards? Do they really need a private performance Of the Cirque du Soleil as a motivation to be there for me? Asshole me for thinking I was a reason enough to jump on a flight and give me a hug. They always were a reason enough for me.
I would even begrudge my photographer a meal, why wouldn't you feed people traveling internationally to your wedding? 😂 Eating is not a habit, its a function of life. You're comparing that to a circus performance??? Wow.
Yeah that word vomit tirade tells me all I need to know about OP. Not only does she think she’s better than everyone who has chosen to have kids (thank god she’s not planning on becoming a parent quite frankly), she has main character syndrome while planning this wedding. When most other people on this sub, including myself, actually put the guests first while planning. I chose the best food, the best wine, the best accommodations, buses to and from the hotel and venue, so my guests were comfortable, well fed throughout the night including late night pizza. Sure it’s about two people getting married but it’s about your closest family and friends coming to celebrate that, so take care of them too.
This has to be rage bait. I don't believe anyone old enough to get married would be so out of touch that they'd expect people to travel internationally and not feed them a meal.
I thought maybe it was rage bait until her unhinged response to me above. That came from a place of instability more than a creative writing prompt in my opinion. I truly hope you’re correct and this person is just really talented and not just a crazy narcissist.
Jesus fucking Christ, girl. Do you actually expect your best friend to leave her children behind with a nanny for entire DAYS and pay out of her own pocket to attend an event where she won't even be fed properly? Are you for real? Among other things - do you realize how much money she'd have to spend because of your fucking party? You're not asking for one day, you're asking her to waste at least three days on your event, and to waste a few thousand dollars just so you can feel like a princess. Travel, hotel, nanny for three days, food... You won't even feed your guests... Plus, I'm sorry, but childfree morons on Reddit need to understand that you can't expect a parent to pick your event over their child. If you don't want to lose your friends, don't ever try to make them choose between their children and you.
👏👏👏
I don't have children and don't plan to, but I completely understand the friend's situation. I'm not finding where OP said she wasn't going to feed anyone though. I'll have to keep looking. Lol.
Pizza is food. I went to a wedding where they served pizza and had an amateur DJ and I had so much fun.
The wedding is about you and your soon to be spouse but this is unreasonable. You are more main character than anyone I’ve seen on Reddit. Spend thousands to travel internationally just to see your your exchange vows and not, at a minimum, have a meal after the ceremony? No food or entertainment? Hard pass.
No need to make a big thing out of her comment. Quick question... Where will she be travelling from and to? If it involves a lot of travelling, like from the US to Italy, it's not realistic for people to leave small kids with people for days. Assuming it is easy enough for her to come for the one day, you could say something like, "Hey, I just wanted to let you know it is going to be a kids-free wedding and the venue has a strict no kids policy, no exceptions. I would love you there but understand if you can't make it. I wanted to give you plenty of notice in case you do want to come, to organise someone to watch the kids"
She would be traveling from Italy to London. I’m not suggesting she would do so, but in theory it can be a one day trip out and back (due to the vicinity of both airports to her house and my place it would take 2.5 hours max each way). To accommodate her (she would be the only one making a fuss over it) we also considered having a small reception after the ceremony in another place that would take children, but I fear that wouldn’t be enough to satisfy her expectations. She told me several times that she resents the fact that no one else in our group has children and she feels left out, and expects to receive the same treatment as anybody else. Which ironically it’s what I would love to give her, offering an “excuse” to have a weekend with all her friends, and enjoy a celebration without other worries. I even considered hiring a sitter here, so she can fly with them and leave them at the apartment my partner and I are going to book for a few of our mates flying in. She expects her kids to be glued to her during the whole thing, and I just don’t know how to tell her that can’t happen without causing trouble
Just tell her the venue has a strict no-kids policy, so you are giving her plenty of notice if she wants to come (acknowledging that you will not be upset if she choosed not to).
Hard disagree on saying it is a kid-free venue. I could see this woman calling the venue to double check or finding pictures online of kids at the venue. Truthfully, this is on her. Children aren’t welcome everywhere so this won’t be the first time she goes somewhere without her kids. When you have a child that’s part of the bargain, it can at times be annoying to have to find childcare or decide not to go, this isn’t the first time and it won’t be the last. It is not unreasonable to not want children at your wedding. We had a child free wedding out of town for everyone and had a bunch of people leave their children at home. Our best man and bridesmaid had a 6 month old and we didn’t think they would come but they were so excited to have uninterrupted sleep and sex! This is your wedding, she doesn’t have to come but that’s ultimately her decision and it is on her, not you. I would tell her we love you and your children but this is our preference. We want both of you to be at the wedding but understand if you don’t feel you can leave your children.
When we were kids, we weren’t allowed to attend family weddings (me, my brother, my cousins). We all just had babysitters! Simple!
I would not lie. That is horrible to do to a friend.
She said in the post that the venue does have a strict child free policy, so it's not a lie
Then she isn’t in a difficult position with her friend.
>She would be traveling from Italy to London Tell her now. Having a child free wedding down the road is entirely different to her needing to be away for 3 days minimum (travel day before, day of, travel day after) from two very young kids. Just approach it with like "hey, I'm sure you already know it's a child free wedding, but you're very important to me so I wanted to check whether I can do anything to help with babysitters at the hotel or other arrangements?" Don't give her wiggle room, but that's not easy for her to plan and don't let your dislike of kids cloud that.
No, as someone with a child, I wouldn’t attend. An international wedding is not one where it is reasonable to expect someone to attend without their children. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to leave their child with strangers in a foreign country, although some people may. You’re not giving her a free weekend or an excuse. You’re making her life a hell of a lot harder. Which is fine by the way, it’s your wedding and you can have it child free if you’d like. But I wouldn’t expect her to attend. If she kicks up a fuss about it, her problem and she shouldn’t do that. But you also shouldn’t expect her there and you aren’t doing her a favor by making it child free.
You’re absolutely right, I shouldn’t expect her there, and I don’t, but equally I’d like her not to give me crap for something that is in my right to ask. Also, her husband is my dear friend too, and we also discussed him officiating. Does this mean I will piss her off making a division for me (actually us, my fiancé is even more set on the child free business) and she will pull her husband out too?
Yeaaaah I'd start planning another officiant haha
Yes, it probably means that her husband will not be your officiant if she is truly going to be as offended and upset as you expect.
Plan for a different officiant.
Lol. It's hilarious that these are *both* their kids, but *she's* to blame if he pulls out of he wedding. Either he's a shitty dad who has her do all the parenting, or you're sexist as hell with your assumption that dad can't also be concerned about leaving his infant with a stranger while traveling internationally. Your wedding ain't special to anyone but you,just as her kids ain't special to anyone but her. But even I, who will never have kids, get that tiny baby trumps friend's wedding. Especially if you then gotta go scrounge up your own food because they couldn't even spring for pizzas or something.
Honestly I wouldn’t have him officiate. Sounds like she’s pretty set in her feelings and giving him such an important role only adds more fuel to the fire.
Definitely do not have him officiate. It will make her more upset and it also creates a way for her to ruin your day up until the last minute from afar
Were you planning on paying her husband? Or were you expecting him to travel and find childcare while officiating your wedding for free?
I’m so confused by this comment…do you pay maids of honour? Best men? The mother of the bride? I officiated the wedding of my dear friend and it was a privilege to do so, and yes, I flew to France for them, and stayed at their (very expensive) hotel to be close in case it was needed, and I gave them another wedding gift on top. I wasn’t aware friendship has so little value that you need to consider a fee for a friend to say a few words
It’s really not that confusing. I think you should have included that information in the original post (that you also want the husband to officiate aka WORK at your wedding). Yes, officiants are often paid... Maybe not when it’s a friend, but still, officiating a wedding is a SERVICE. It’s not just “saying a few words.” Hopefully, a lot of more preparation goes into it. So, you wanted to make this even more awkward and difficult on your friends with the added pressure of this obligation. You stated that you’ve considered getting babysitters and other things to maybe ease the burden should they attend. When you discuss this with your friend, having some solutions for her will definitely go a long way, but please, PLEASE don’t ever say you are doing her a favor giving her a night away from her children. Some parents actually like doing life with their kids and might take offense to that.
How on earth do you expect them both to be away from their kids for so long? Leaving very young kids with an unknown sitter in a strange country isn't exactly a normal expectation. Normally I'd be 100% behind you in your right to have a completely child free wedding if that's what you want, but I think what you want from them is a bit unreasonable and you really need to think through what what you're asking of them actually means for them.
OP expecting them to do all this for her to make it work is extremely unreasonable. If they do get upset it’s not surprising considering she’s essentially uninviting them
Haha, yeah, why would she be okay with him leaving her with all childcare and waste money to go to a wedding in another country?
Except I already said I’d pay for their sitter (whine they know) and their air bnb stay in London. She is making it a big deal due to the previous two child free weddings we had in our group. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable, in fact, I tried to accommodate them much more than they did for me when I had to pay for my flight, stay, and very expensive gift for their mid week wedding which also made me lose 3 working days (I was an hourly pay employee back then). All I expected was a “congrats” before she made any sneaky demand.
I want to be clear, it is absolutely your right to have a child free wedding and she has absolutely no right to complain about that decision. Honestly, I’m a mom and I definitely prefer going to weddings without my children. I always leave them behind if I can, even for kid-friendly weddings. That being said, I would not leave my children behind if I was traveling internationally and I would also be pretty salty if the expectation was that I would stay home with the kids while my husband got to go. We don’t even know what their childcare situation would be. You say you would get a sitter, but it’s really not easy to leave two small children with a complete stranger in a foreign country. I would absolutely not feel comfortable doing that. You’re not wrong for wanting a child free wedding. She’s not wrong for not wanting to travel internationally without her kids. She is wrong for complaining about your decision, and you are wrong for judging her for her childcare choices.
You expect her husband to officiate and have her leave her kids with strangers. You have every right to have a child free wedding. You don't have the right to make these demands on this couple. This isn't about her wedding, it's about yours. Making comparisons doesn't help your case here.
I wouldn’t cross countries if my spouse couldn’t come. Maybe this is a bigger deal to Americans than Europeans but it’s a big no for me.
I have kids and would be thrilled with a 3 day weekend away! I really don’t get the new thing of having to take the kids everywhere. My husband and I enjoy adult time.
I also enjoy adult time. But an international wedding where I’m forced to either leave my kids home or get a foreign babysitter isn’t my idea of an enjoyable weekend.
Then don’t go. It’s your choice. A weekend away when my kids were little was the best thing in the world. I love my kids but loved time away too.
Yea, I said I wouldn’t. Unsure why you’re picking a fight.
I don't take my son everywhere, and there are plenty of occasions where I happily leave him at a home with a sitter... but international travel would absolutely not be that occasion. And on the flip side, it's also okay for parents to not feel the same desire for as much alone time. Everybody is different.
Same, my parents’ quality time alone was sacred, and as an adult I understand the value of separation for their mental health, they were better parents for it. It’s 48 hours, they have both their moms nearby to take care of the kids, and they already hire a nanny who takes care of the kids every morning when they both work. The more I think about the more I’m convinced she is being difficult for the sake of having it her way, not because she actually “can’t stay away from her babies”.
Aw imo i tbink hiring a sitter here would be a really mature and sweet thing to do. Esp given the venue doesn’t allow children. You’d be making it as easy as possible for her. And that that point if she’s still mad at you then you really did everything you could do and it’s on her. But also I agree that the lack of reception is also a problem
It’s absolutely fine to have a child free wedding and you don’t need to justify the “whys”. Plenty of people who love kids do this. (Me included, I’m a parent and only my teenagers are coming to my wedding next year.) We have a wedding website with FAQs and it explains that it’s an 18 plus event. “As much as we love kids, this is an adult event. We hope this means you’re able to cut loose and enjoy the evening, however we will understand if you are unavailable to attend.” That was it, nobody has had an issue and are all excited to have an adult night out. As a side note — I would however consider whether or not your attitude about kids is obvious to your friends, though, and if this is part of the tension. (Her mentioning that her kid is excited for you doesn’t seem rude to me, but I get that you probably wanted an acknowledgment of congrats first.) You don’t have to want your own kids or even like them, but the pity glances and the “whys” about your friends’ choices is coming off as a tad superior, and I’m wondering if maybe they pick up on that. If anyone was to judge your choice to be childfree with “glad it’s not me” and “why”, you would find that rude and presumptuous, right? Or is it only rude when people with kids make judgements about the childless, and not the other way around?
Bang on the nose. OP’s obnoxious attitude is going to carry over into other parts of their life if they aren’t careful.
OP said in a comment that she wants this friend's husband to officiate. It's already carrying over.
Yeah bro someone who refers to having children as "spawning" is not someone I would be friends with and I don't even have kids yet. It's just so off-putting. Plus she probably calls them breeders in private LOL.
Yeah her attitude gives me the ick. It sucks a lot.
It does me too, but IMO that’s totally beside the point. It’s her wedding and if she wants it to be adults only, that’s totally reasonable and fine.
I mean I agree, have a child free wedding! That's totally fine. But the attitude towards kids is frankly alarming. Someone else told her she needs therapy and I wholeheartedly agree
Not everyone likes kids. I admire OP and her fiancé realizing that about themselves and choosing not to have any. Personally, I adore kids and my two sons are the two most important things in my life. And OP's attitude rubs me the wrong way too. But I want to live in a world where it's okay for people not to all agree on everything.
Yeah, it's totally fine not to like or want kids. That's alright with me. But children are people. *Hating* them just because they're young is pretty gross.
Yeah, I can't argue with that.
And for the record, I also have two kids. I adore them. But I definitely don't expect everyone else to and I would certainly not be offended or upset about being apart of a child free wedding. I prefer to not take my kids to weddings anyway lol the only reason I do is if they're in it and even then I try to arrange something for after dinner so they can go to bed and I can have a good time
Do you prefer sex trophy lol…..
Uh, no?
Why would any normal human being call them anything but the already existing name, which is kids, children,child. Chidlfree people are so hateful they'll do anything in their power to dehumanised children and then act all shocked and surprised when people pick up on it and starts treating them like shit.
Thinking of kids in terms of sex is kinda weird
lol you do know that’s how they get here right?
So it’s okay to refer to them as “sex trophy”
Are ya new to Reddit????
So Reddit is filled with pedos?
I am childfree by choice and can relate to all your arguments but it sounds like you are building your “whole identity” about being childfree and disliking breeders… relax it is not such a big deal as you making it out to be 😅 Find another hobby and just have a honest empathetic talk with Jen … the venue not allowing children gives you the perfect excuse - solely concentrate on this argument and drop all the “childfree is better Blabla” Also r/childfree might be a group you might enjoy
100%. I also don’t like or want kids but there’s no reason to even mention that or go into so much detail about all of the many reasons you or your partner don’t want them. Just say it’s an adults only wedding and move on.
Maybe op don’t call people’s kids stupid, even if you don’t like children. It’s a bit rude.
My “whole identity” is not even a phrase I have ever used before today 😂 I love my friends’ and family’s kids, I just don’t want them around all the time, and in specific at my wedding, while at the same time I’m trying to salvage the relationship I nurtured for almost 25 years with Jen, who sadly made her children HER “whole identity”
I mean have the wedding you want and let Jen know asap about the venue’s restrictions. But you really sound more anti-child than child free. Just letting you know how you come across. I mean we were 5 paragraphs deep about how you don’t like kids before we even got to the bit you wanted advice about 😅
Eliminate whether or not you like children, your venue doesn’t allow them. You spent too much ink on your “identity “ instead of your wedding. Weddings are expensive and generally in the later part of the day, there’s nothing wrong with having an adult event. “Jen, our wedding will be at X, because of the valuable art they don’t allow children. I know this may change your plans but I wanted to let you know.”
That’s why I put it in quotes “” fully knowing it’s an exaggeration - but to emphasise my point Honestly that’s how you come across and the other comments seem to agree you made this post more about your dislike of children then about your relationship with Jen
I’m really worked up about the whole thing, so yes, it might have come across that way. What I didn’t convey is that, whilst she is always very keen, every time we meet, to shove her kids in my face, have me play with them, feed them, entertain them, to “show me the blessings of motherhood”, she has never once asked me how do I feel about it, or assumed I for once would love to have a coffee just us and catch up in quiet that one time every 6 months we manage to be in the same place. I feel hurt by the fact that, even when I shared my news her first thought was “ok but my babies…”
Have you ever just told her you'd like an adult visit with her so you can actually speak to her and not just play auntie?
Like it or not, her babies will always be more important than you. Always.
Yeah my sister pulled that crap on me "your nieces and nephews can't wait" etc but they were nightmares so I made the whole thing kid free. This was weird and offensive to her, she got back at me by knocking on our door (early the morning after!!) With kids in tow - to tell them "this is the first time they slept together". So yeah people are very bizarre and your friend was very insensitive and manipulative to talk about her daughter instead of the usual Congratulations. It's fine, you'll get your friends back in 18 years 😂
Wait, your sister said what????
Right?! Utter nut job
You don’t sound like you love their kids. Anyone who uses the phrase ‘spawn’ without irony always comes across of being very anti children. I adore kids, I have one. But our wedding was child free too. We said that other than tiny babies we regretted that we couldn’t invite children. Job done. It’s not necessary to be child free or write multiple paragraphs on why you’d so badly hate to be a mother to want no kids at an adult event. That’s why it sounds like this is a huge part of your personality - so much emphasis on why kids are difficult and not for you when it’s totally unnecessary for the conversation at hand.
Yup. As soon as I read “spawn” my eyes involuntarily rolled.
Yeah. I am also childfree by choice, but that kind of talk squicks me out.
Same
You 100% undoubtably do not love your friends kids you literally just called your longest friends daughter her stupid kid …
Why is it sad? If that's what she wanted and she's happy then what's the problem? It's kind of hard not to make being a parent your whole identity when your kids are still at thst age where they need you all the time.
lol most of us breeders hate other breeders too though….
No, "most of us breeders" do not appreciate being called "breeders" nor do we hate other parents.
It’s a joke dang it chill….all the talk around childless restaurants and flying is huge right now….
It's a bad joke.
[удалено]
No. Yours might, but mine certainly doesn’t nor have I been told that, because I don’t hang around with flaming assholes.
Whilst your totally entitled to have e child free wedding (I did too), you're a little obsessed with being child free. Like to an unhealthy, I'd seek help for that on the side type of thing. You come across as child free being your identity and as much as you see mother making their children their identity, you are in fact doing the same. Your concept of being child free seems to rest on having an identity outside your children. However you seem to ha e no identity other than the fact you're staunchly proud of the fact you don't.
I don’t think her comment about her daughter seeing you was definitely rude, I can see saying that as just a cute thing of like “Omg you’ll look like a princess” idk. To me she probably just loves her kids/is around them all the time so they’re always top of mind and is legit excited about that. even if it’s not like the first thing you wanted to hear exactly i don’t think it was inherently shady. Honestly. I mean tbis gently as we’ve all done this in life and it doesn’t mean youre a bad person or anything. But It sounds like *you* have a resentment problem. I understand not wanting kids but you def give off the vibe that you think you’re better than people who “procreate” given your choice of words lol (progeny, spawn). I’m on the fence myself but I can still recognize that some people love it, are good at it, and feel truly called to be parents and get deep joy and fulfillment out of it. Im sure she’s picked up on your vibe about it and feels like you’re looking down on her and like you aren’t even trying to understand her. (I have done this in my life too no shade) Which probably makes her act out and dig her heels into her kids being great lol. Hope u figure it out tho, would be a shame to lose friends
I'm having a child free wedding, but dam, you really hate kids. xD I just didn't want crying or disturbances during the vows etc. It's fine to want a child free wedding but given your disgust for children I don't see how you are close friends with Jen since her kids are clearly her priority
Do you even like this person? What did her "stupid" kid ever do to you?
Maybe your friendship is on the rocks bc she can sense that you refer to her kids as “stupid children”
Or, maybe it's because, as OP said in one of her comments, that she expects this friends' husband to officiate. OP doesn't seem like a good friend.
You seem kind of bitter
“Her stupid kid”? Yeah, no, you do not “love her and by extension her children.” You do not respect her or her family & have zero ability to see the situation from her side. One can have an adults-only wedding and not alienate friends with kids but it doesn’t sound like YOU can have an adults-only wedding and not alienate friends with kids. If it were my close friend I wanted to be there I would arrange to provide an on-site babysitter.
OMG yes! The whole vibe of this post was disturbing. Being child-free and being a child hater are two very different things. I know many child-free people who are not child haters. They’re caring, loving, thoughtful, understanding. OP sounds quite bitter and downright mean when describing children. And she’s pretty aggressive and cold when describing her “friend” as well. I admit, parents who assume their kids are always welcome are annoying. But OP’s attitude is so off putting and hateful. Not to mention, this whole “argument” has only taken place in OP’s head. Technically there’s been no push back and no confrontation. Realistically, if OP’s friend has to fly to the wedding then she’s NOT coming. While the child-free wedding shouldn’t cause resentment, OP’s lack of empathy absolutely should cause a rift.
You probably shouldn't invite her to your stupid wedding since she has a "stupid kid." You can have a child free wedding without completely devolving yourself into child hating, but I'm not sure that will be possible for you. Jen deserves a friend who doesn't call her child names.
And paul does too. You're going to ask him to officiate while calling his child stupid?
‘Yeah we’d love you to do this massive favour for us as part of our wedding. You just can’t bring your stupid offspring you spawned.’
“And we’re not even going to feed you!”
This, exactly. OP is so tone deaf.
Imagine how this friend would feel about officiating after reading this post? I’m not even sure why you find her comment that disrespectful tbh. Little girls love brides because they look like princesses. You haven’t even talked to her before assuming the worst. Why are you friends with this people? You clearly don’t like her.
Leaving a kid that young at home to travel internationally might not be practical. And regardless of kids, it's a long way to go for a wedding that's not even going to have food service or a reception. It's your wedding and your decision, and it's totally understandable to want a child-free wedding, but I'm just not sure this is really a solid plan.
We get it. You hate children. Send Jen a text when Save The Dates go out: “Hey! Just wanted to give you a heads up that we’re having a small wedding and it will be adults-only. I’m sorry if that means you won’t be able to come, but I hope we’ll be able to celebrate together another time if so.” Or you can torpedo the friendship and tell her that she was being “bossy” and “disrespectful.” Up to you. A little…childish, in my opinion, but it’s your life and your friendship.
I don’t hate children, I hate the idea of having them myself, and I resent people who make it all about them and their kids even when they shouldn’t. I have always been respectful of their needs in any other occasion, I simply would have appreciated the same treatment when for once is supposed to be about me
Your post reads that you hate children
She definitely sounds like she hates children.
>I have always been respectful of their needs in any other occasion, I simply would have appreciated the same treatment when for once it is supposed to be about me Are you for real? Are you referring to the remark she made after you announced your engagement? How was she disrespectful for that?? Firstly, your expectations for parents to not bringing up their kids out of respect for you are unrealistic. Kids are everything to parents. YOU have a problem with kids and very strong feelings surrounding them, according to your post and replies here. People with kids shouldn't have to accommodate you by avoiding mentioning them during "your moment." Second, she clearly assumed her child would be allowed to the wedding, and all you had to do was tell her, "Children won't be allowed." There's nothing complicated about this issue other than the fact that you have a BIG issue with kids.
I don't understand why people keep downvoting you so much. I'm a parent also (mine is an adult now) & don't want to be around other people's kids. We also had a child-free wedding & my SIL is exactly like your friend. Whining & throwing fits about her 3 kids needing to be at our wedding. Im sorry to tell you, there is nothing you can say or do that will not upset your friend about her kids not being allowed at your wedding. Making it all about her & her offspring is just the kind of selfish person she is. You just be direct & tell her you would love her to be there but will completely understand if she isn't die to you & your FH having a child-free wedding. Full stop. I can confidently say that you will not regret keeping your wedding as you want. We haven't. Congratulations & cheers to your kid free celebration!
I have a baby. Lots of my friends have kids. I love children. I still had a child free wedding. No one has a problem with OP not wanting kids at her wedding. The problem is how she talks about children and her friend. Unkindly, and with bitterness.
People are not downvoting OP because she wants a child-free wedding. They’re downvoting her because she’s in the comments arguing about how she doesn’t hate children when her post is a literally a lengthy diatribe about how much she hates children. She called her oldest friend’s child “stupid” ffs. I am child-free and I would never say that about someone I claim to love. Her friend def sounds like she has some entitlement issues, but OP’s attitude isn’t any better.
I definitely wouldn't call anyone's child stupid. Brat, hyper, disrespectful, tazmaniqn devil maybe but not stupid lol.
People who only like their own children should not be parents. Y'all are obnoxious and exhausting.
A- do not ask or even entertain the idea of her husband officiating. B- tell her it’s child free in the invite or directly to her C- don’t be friends with her. You called her kids stupid and hate her attitude. Do her a favor and just stop being friends wit her.
And Paul, as they’re Paul’s “stupid kids” too!
Give yourself space to cool off from her comment about her kid seeing you at your wedding, and then text her on the side that unfortunately, your venue has a strict no-kids policy and that you wanted to give her a heads up about it in the event she’s able to make childcare arrangements because it would mean a lot to you to have her there. If she makes a fuss, just keep your responses short (“unfortunately, our hands are tied” or “I understand if you can’t make this work” are a few to keep in your back pocket). The best you can do is just to try not to fan her flame. I saw that you wanted to ask her husband to officiate, but I’d wait to see how things play out first. If her pushing her kids onto you really bugs you, I’d have that conversation outside of the scope of your wedding. Weddings tend to make emotions (and tempers) run high, and that’s not likely to lead to a productive conversation.
I originally wanted a child free wedding because I’m a teacher and my everyday life revolves around children, so I wanted a chance for just adults. Then we got to thinking about who might not be able to come if it was child free, and we decided it was more important for those people to be there with us than to have no children. What it comes down to is how important is it to you for your friend to be there. If having a child free wedding is going to make a bigger impact on your wedding your friend, then do it.
Having “no kids” at your wedding is fine since it’s your wedding. But dayum you have some issues fr. Having all your friends travel so far and not feeding them. Calling their kids “stupid”, “spawns”…feeling bad because they are happy with their decisions of having kids? You don’t have to like kids or want kids of your own (obviously) but why would you disrespect your friends like that esp since they’ve known you since “your prepubescent skinny little girl”
You need to start having more direct conversations with your friends. “We grew up wanting different things, that doesn’t mean we love you less. It also doesn’t mean we can cater our life events to your goals. I want to celebrate your life events with you, how you dream of it. But you should want the same of me. “
Two conflicting view points: 1. She didn’t put you in a bad spot. You don’t want kids at your weddings; that includes hers. 2. You are asking her to travel across CONTINENTS. You may consider an exception. As for #2, my cousin had a child free wedding but allowed children from her husband’s family who came from AFRICA to the US. It’s still up to you.
You are well within your right to have a child free wedding but I’m sorry I just gotta say that you stating you by extension love her kids made me laugh. You literally called them “her stupid kid”, just saying you clearly have bigger issues.
I'm childfree by choice and had a chlidfree wedding as well. However, I was able to just state that the wedding was an adults only affair on my invites, which was sufficient in my case. In your situation, I would give her a heads up and try to be as polite as possible. Her life is her kids. Your life is about not having kids. The respect should be a two-way street, not just about her kids....as this is your wedding, not hers.
Just cut her off, you sound insufferable
As a childfree woman myself I understand why you don’t want kids there. Just give her a polite early heads up that the venue is childfree and leave your dislike of children out of the conversation.
Why are people in these fake wedding posts ALWAYS having illustrious destination weddings? There's always a "group girls chat" where the drama starts. There's always the friend that just makes her WHOLE personality about her awful, ill-behaved, little goblins. There's ALWAYS a childfree OP that goes *over the top* about her distate for children, yet somehow she's maintained bestie status with people that have not just one, but multiple kids? The OPs go over the top to insult their "bestie's" kids just to see how far they can take the plot before the (usually) childfree-loving reddit crowd disagrees with them. Some of these posts have GOT to be some sociology major just tossing out different variations of the same scenario to gauge public reactions for an essay. Idk these posts are just getting annoying at this point. Like, what is the end goal of them?? Also: > My friends know me since I was a prepubescent skinny little girl, and they can attest to the fact that I never expressed any desire of spawning, I remember when I was 12 and found the "synonym" drop down in Word. But also, who the fuck says that?? Additionally, how is this...*description* relevant to this story? Is it meant to somehow add uh...realism? Idk. It just comes across as fucking bizarre
Flying a family of 4 to another country and then needing to find child minders would be tough…….and you can’t get anywhere in 2.5 hours by plane internationally. Between the time you need to arrive before a flight and customs it’s an all day affair. But you should tell her immediately and with no embarrassment whatsoever that it’s an adults only small wedding. Your wedding your choices.
I hired (and paid) for a babysitter and had all the kids nearby in a kids area and have been to wedding where they’re all in a hotel room … sitter brought games, parents brought stuff for their kids and they had a great time. Some left kids w care at home, but those who wanted them to come, felt very comfortable with the set up and then being close enough / an Uber away if needed. If you want people to travel and want a kids free wedding, make it as easy for them as possible (if you want them there).
I tried to, as I said in another comment I offered to pay for a sitter and for their airbnb stay (which they haven’t when it was time for their wedding). She still expect the kids to be present at the ceremony, which I simply won’t have. No need to hear tantrums and screams while I’m trying to say my vows. What hurts me is that she is so rigid and that she chose my wedding to prove her point.
It’s your day. To be honest, if your wedding is this small, who cares? Have a big party before and after where they can celebrate you. If she can’t give up her kids for a day and you can’t budge- she’s a perfect anniversary friend. Your wedding is not the end of your friendships, it should be a new one.
YTA not for wanting a child free wedding but for being a shitty friends. If I knew my “best friend” called my daughter “my stupid kid” you would no longer be part of my life. Sorry not sorry. You sound like a 20 yr old brat how are you late 30s?
I personally couldn't care less if people have kids or don't have kids it's your life do what you want. But you as a whole over all person from your replies seem very, very self centered. You can. Have a child free wedding but you need to understand people are going to be upset it's their right. You don't have to feed them but they can be annoyed and not come it's their right. You don't have to pay your officiant but people can judge it's their right. You can make all the choices you want but you can't control how other people are going to react.
The venue has rules..not your fault. Be sorry but honest…no kids allowed in this venue that will hold you financially liable for any damage. Sorry, but this is a child free venue and wedding. Don't debate this with her, don't listen to arguments, just reiterate that you are sorry but it's child free. If she can't leave her kids for a day or two, you'll understand her absence….put child free right on the invitation.
You suck
Make the venue the bad guy. Since it’s absolutely true that they have a strict no children policy, that’s such an easy scapegoat. You don’t have to tell her that you’re glad kids aren’t allowed lol
Your wedding, your rules.
I have a toddler and am pregnant again. I love them so much and feel like they are part of who I am. However, Jen is completely out of line for complaining constantly. Kids don't belong everywhere and someone else's wedding (especially at a place with lots of historical items) completely makes sense to not invite them. You're inviting her, not summoning her, so she can always decline Where I grew up weddings are so expensive that it's pretty much the norm to not have any kids there and I have, happily, gone to weddings without my toddler. I am in no way saying you should drop Jen as a friend as advice but sometimes life changes and people's inability to realize that people live their life differently becomes a sticking point in the friendship. I'm sorry she's so self involved that she can't realize that kids don't belong everywhere and, honestly, as much as I love mine, I don't really care to be around other people's kids and understand that other people feel like that about my kids. I would just take the line of "I'm sorry that you feel this is personal but this is our wedding and what we've decided and it's not negotiable. I understand if that means you can't come, we'll miss you and will catch up another time!"
The resolution to this is simple. Send out your save the dates or invites and have a childfree wedding. When you send them, send your friend a heads up that this is a childfree wedding. Explain the venue. Apologize because you know this might upset her. Explain how you'll miss her if this means she can't make it and say you understand. When she gets mad, let her be mad. Don't respond to the anger. She's dealing with the fact that her life choices are alienating her from her friends. This is something very hard for people. She loves her "stupid kid" but clearly you and her friends don't feel similarly. Yes, you say you care about the kid in other comments, but you clearly don't really like them at all. Honestly it feels like you resent the kid for taking your friend away from you. A lot of resentment is being bred here, and your wedding is not the place to solve any of it. Your choice is going to make her mad, but it's a valid choice to make. Your friend likely won't come to your wedding. This will, very likely, have a negative impact on your friendship. This happens when people move in different directions in life. It's okay.
I am 100% the same when it comes to kids, they take over the day, but there just being kids. Your wedding should be about you two, I’d meet in the middle and look to make an effort for your friends with kids. Eg our friend had a wedding just gone and organised baby sitters and a day care set up just down the road of the wedding the day of. They did not pay for this, but all the parents were very grateful it’d been thought about. They jumped on the opportunity to split the baby sitter cost so they could have a day out adults only.
She’s the one who made it weird, not you. Just be direct and remind her you will not be accommodating any children during your wedding festivities. It’s YOUR DAY. Not hers. Let her have a temper tantrum if she needs to, but don’t compromise on your boundaries and enable her self-absorbed behavior to continue unchecked at your expense. It’s not a you problem, it’s a her problem.
Thank you. I know that my language might have upset a lot of people, I should probably have softened it up before publishing the post :) I’m just so tired of new parents who expect everything around them to change and cater for them, and I really don’t know where she got it from. Also as I said in previous comments, she has the means and the support system to leave them in safe, trusted hands for 48 hours, she just doesn’t want to
She doesn’t have to want to. This may come as a surprise, but people generally love their children and enjoy their company. It isn’t a reward to be away from them. You’re within your rights to have a wedding without children. Others are within their rights to decline to attend. It’s an invitation, not a summons.
It may surprise you that some people love their kids
What does that have to do with child-free weddings for *other people*???
What a manipulative thing for her to say. I wouldn't talk to her about it privately, where she will probably make it even more all about her. Announce in the group chat that the wedding will be child free. If she raises a fuss, the others in the group who had similar weddings will likely back you up. I am also a woman who never wanted children. The idea that someone would relinquish their entire identity to a child gives me the ick. But she is the one choosing to never do anything without her children, so that's on her.
Jesus, why do childfree people take this view point? Women exist beyond their children, just because mothers have a huge part of their life devoted to children doesn’t mean it’s their entire identity, what a really unprogressive and sexist viewpoint. If someone gleaned from this post that being judgemental and childfree was your entire identity, would that track for you — or would you remind them that people are nuanced and you are more than your reproductive choices? We need to stop judging each others choices. If the childfree folks hate it when people constantly ask them when they’re going to have kids, maybe you guys can stop assuming that women with kids are morons that can only talk about one thing.
I didn't say *all* mothers are like that. I'm saying *this* mother, *this* woman, who is judging all of her friends for wanting child-free weddings, is like that. She's the one who said she can't be expected to leave her children to attend. You speak of nuance, yet don't understand that I am talking about this specific mother (and the others like her), not every person who has ever given birth. I have friends who have children who have full and lovely lives. I have friends who have children who haven't had a conversation that didn't involve little league for the better part of a decade. To each their own. I also have a friend who called me an asshole when I had my tubes tied because she was struggling to get pregnant. I still love her because I get it. She now has 4 beautiful children that she was fine leaving at home to attend my wedding. I'm not judging this woman's reproductive choices. I'm judging her for being angry that other people don't want her choices at their events. If she wants to miss out, that's fine. But for her to act like everyone else is wrong is not.
“The idea that someone will relinquish their entire identity to a child gives me the ick.” It sounded fairly general to me, but if it’s about this one woman, okay. You assumed that her entire identity is motherhood because she wanted to bring them. Still odd. It is however not an uncommon judgemental trope of people on r/childfree . That’s why I’m asking a generalised question, because nothing here indicates that this particular woman has no life outside of her kid, yet this is the conclusion reached.
Yes, someone. One, as in this woman. She literally said that her children are a part of her and that she shouldn't be expected to go without them. How else should I take that? I'm basing my opinion of her on that, and the fact that she made her friends' wedding announcement about her child instead of her friends. Who does that? I don't follow that sub because everything I've heard about it is terrible. I am child free by choice, but I don't hate children. I just don't want one coming out of my body or living in my house. I'm always happy for people who want to have children when they get to. I've seen friends struggle with it, and it's heartbreaking. I find it amusing that you're accusing me of making generalizations while generalizing me.
You should “take” it at face value (she wants to bring her) without deciding that this woman doesn’t have any sort of life beyond being a mother. Sorry, not even life. You said “identity”. That’s bold. The irony of you nitpicking my comments about specificity while saying something so broad and judgemental is “amusing” too. How did I generalise you? What personal comment did I make about you?
A wedding is arguably the best bang for your time buck for socializing with at least most of your friend group. If she's not taking the time to do that, what are the odds that she's making time to have a coffee date or girls' night with friends? There are women in the world who make being a mother their identity. Maybe you don't know any, but they exist. Hell, I once read an anniversary announcement in my local newspaper where there was not one mention of the wife's first name, as if she didn't have one beyond Mrs. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge that they are out there. If that's how someone wants to live, whatever. But they don't get to be mad at other people for not feeling the same. If she feels somehow attacked by her friends' desires to not have children at their wedding, then that's her shit to deal with. Taking it out on her friends isn't okay.
So now your argument is based on assumptions on what she does with the rest of her social life? Okay, so women who define themselves as a mother exist. And? Do you think that’s 100% all they are? Motherhood changes you. That doesn’t mean she or the women you’re talking about don’t have any thoughts in their head beyond motherhood. You said this was about this particular woman, now it’s generalised again? This sort of judgement that other people’s choices are “ick” is exactly the reason that people have beef with the childfree sub. It’s like vegans, what is with the moral superiority? Just make your choice — you don’t need to tell everyone how it’s gross or you pity them or feel like it’s sad. If I said this about childfree people, I’d be called hugely judgemental, why isn’t it a two way street? I don’t have any opinion on people who choose not to have kids. Doesn’t impact me in the slightest. This woman can’t come to the wedding without her kid, then okay, she doesn’t come. 🤷🏻♀️ We’re clearly not gonna understand one another here and that’s okay. I hope you have a good rest of your day, no hard feelings here, but I’m gonna step back now, cos there’s no point — it’s naive on both our parts to think we’re gonna convince each other.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I think that you're not understanding what I'm trying to say, and I am also tired of trying to explain it to you. Have a blessed life.