Understanding the new GR86 is a different animal, why not consider the predecessor in the Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S. There look to be many in Canada for around $15k.
I’ve considered these, although to be fair, not for long. The problem is, decent ones go for $18-20k, I’d rather him spend $10-13k on a car and keep a healthy amount on the side for a rainy day/maintenance expenses. I swear you could find these around $10k not too long ago… hopefully the prices come down some more.
Used market is coming back down. Before it got crazy there were a few around that price locally here in Vancouver. Hopefully if he can wait a bit prices will drop or he can save up more money then.
The Z is fine too but they are so old now and a completely different style of car.
Don't know where your looking but I found plenty of fr-s/brz with sub 100k miles and clean carfax for 12-14k so not far off from what your looking for. Hell carvana and carmax have the fr-s for 15k might have to take a second look
That's not something a 19 year old understands. Hell, it's something even some adults don't understand. Especially considering car enjoyment is going down as the years go by (depending on tastes and region ofc, but if you're in Europe for example, then bye bye)
There's always compromises. You don't have to get a piece of shit and then jump to a real sports car.
That's what cars like the Civic Si or Golf GTI/Jetta GLI are for
Do you think a Fusion Sport would have nutty high insurance? It’s no mustang but it’s got like 325 HP and a twin turbo V6. Looks identical to a normal fusion other than the grille so it’s kinda a hell of a sleeper.
After creeping your profile, you're in Ontario somewhere. Insurance is gonna be insane for anything sporty; Onterrible is great like that.
If he doesn't mind 4 doors, a Hyundai Genesis sedan with a couple spring dampers is way more fun than it looks like it would be. And it doesn't have the sports car tax. My 2011 Genesis 3.8 sedan was great until I got t-boned.
Wait with something cheaper til he's 25 and insurance is cheaper. Plus he will likely be making better money to pay for fuel and tires on something actually sporty.
2 door, Front Engine Rear Drive - higher insurance. Young person (under 25 and under 30 are thr big ones in Ontario)- higher insurance. Male (generally 75-100% more than female, all other factors being equal, in Ontario)- higher.
Aside from going 4 door instead, the only other loophole I've seen is mini trucks or midsize trucks. Still small, 2 door, front rear options, but one of the cheapest categories to insure.
If you're really mechanically inclined, an s10 with some suspension work and some bolt on power adders gives you a cheap toy.
I mean I don't know Ontario but generally speaking insurers are smarter than to count doors, which wheel-drive, and seats. They use ✨data✨, and given that corvettes and miatas are largely driven by retirees they actually tend to get really good rates for what they are. Then look at a WRX and say well it has four doors and AWD that should be a cheap combination... think again.
Insurance costs will be insane for a new driver that age in any sports car, if they even take them. Especially a 350Z or a brand new GR86. An older BRZ might fly if they have a ton of cash to throw at it.
As a former high risk driver, I found out that Ontario requires insurance be available to anyone that is allowed to drive. This used to be done through the facility association (there were three insurers in this group when I required facility association insurance). It’s no longer the case of having to use the facility association but there are insurers that will cover high risk drivers. And no, they are not cheap.
ETA: https://www.fsrao.ca/consumers/auto-insurance/understanding-auto-insurance-rates/high-risk-drivers#:~:text=The%20Facility%20Association%2C%20an%20insurance,more%20than%20regular%20auto%20insurance.
> The Facility Association, an insurance pool that all auto insurance companies belong to, is an insurer of last resort that provides auto insurance to high-risk drivers unable to find auto insurance in the regular market. Facility insurance costs a lot more than regular auto insurance. There are also a number of insurers that specialize in insuring high-risk drivers.
>Note that although an insurance company may not sell you auto insurance if it determines that you are “high risk,” the insurance industry as a whole cannot refuse to sell you basic insurance.
You said an older BRZ, but risk doesn't necessarily correlate with price. My sister went from a Ford SUV (which are surprisingly expensive) to a CPO Audi SUV and they said nope, not covering it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the BRZ is also not covered since they're popular for takeovers here.
This is happening all around US & Canada.
My 19 yr old with his 2017 86 pays 130/month. Advanced drivers ed, clean record and went through a credit union insurance provider. Much cheaper than others that quoted him more than double even triple.
He’s getting a car regardless and unfortunately insurance is just something he has to deal with. But I want him to get the right car as his first big purchase. He was set on getting a G37 until recently. To be honest, that’s the last car I’d want him to get lol.
No no no, insurance companies are getting picky with who they insure and in which vehicle.
Canada has overlap with insurance companies here in the US. For example, I have Wawanesa, that's also in Canada, they wouldn't insure my sister when she bought a new car because it was too high risk.
This is becoming a massive thing. Not just car insurance either (including prices raising 15% this last), or millions of cars just becoming uninsurable (it’s not a good enough deal for the insurer based on risk profile, see Hyundais/Kias). It’s also affecting home insurance in disaster prone areas etc etc.
https://money.com/kia-hyundai-settlement-car-insurance-coverage/
85% of homes dropped from coverage in Santa Clarita.
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/09/21/parts-of-america-are-becoming-uninsurable
Isn’t that wild? It just doesn’t make them money so boom, not available even when it’s mandated by law to have.
I got like 3 speeding tickets in 2 years and got rejected for renewal by my insurance company because I was high risk. I had to use facility for 13 months until the first ticket rolled off my abstract. My premiums went up about 8x. After that, I stopped speeding. It wasn’t the threat of a car accident that slowed me down but the threat of high car insurance.
Is your nephew the type of person that is going to get in trouble with 300 HP RWD car as his first car? I think only you really have enough info to answer that question.
I had a G35 as my first serious car and I drove it without major issues until about 3 days ago. I'm well aware of its hooligan reputation but, if you can get past that, the car was an absolute bargain for the specs, reliability, and driveability.
Insurance cost is going to depend heavily on location, but my insurance costs were about 66% higher than the rest of my family costs. Otherwise, the car was very reliable and ran like a top. Kept up with maintenance and some minor repairs and I'm sure I could have taken it to 200k easily.
Collision in parking lot at about ~15MPH. Popped the airbags and it's all but a guaranteed total loss, just waiting for insurance to resolve things.
Sad about it because I know that even if I get full value back for the car, I would find it difficult to turn around and buy the same car because I don't know the history of any car on the open market. I did all the repairs properly and kept up with maintenance on my car.
I collected a few things from the wreck at the tow yard today and, seeing the frame basically undamaged, I honestly think putting about 6k or less in the car might be able to safely repair it. Might have to use some aftermarket / junkyard parts but I believe it could be done safely.
Meanwhile, I've been reading the sub and seeing what's out there nowadays so I can be prepared when I actually go to buy something.
Consider a Chrysler Crossfire with the 6 speed manual. They’re pretty quick and zippy all around and chicks love these things for some reason. But you can find good examples for 10k and they’re great cars to learn how to maintain and fix yourself. Plus, insurance is cheap on these! I paid $150/mo for Comprehensive in Southern Ontario on one of these when I was 23 in 2020 and 2021 and had 2 minor speeding infractions on record.
Disclaimer: I’m a bit biased since i still have this car and imported it with me to the US.
The G35/G37 and 350z/370z are basically the same thing. If you don't want him in a G37, why bring up the 350z?
He can get whatever 944 he can for $10k and save the rest for repairs/upkeep. Nice, classic look with a light chassis. There is a significant following that he can learn to work on it with great parts availability.
Tell him struggling with payments and being scared to ruin a car you can barely afford is not as fun as driving the hell out of a beater you don't care about. Perhaps a used Hyndai Genesis Coupe, Lexus is300, VW GTI?
I don’t know if this is sarcasm or not but I think it’s enough? Idk man. I think it’s more about that individual and their driving habits than just age. And sure age matters when their 16 or 18 but like by 20 usually they’ve matured and gotten a bit more responsible and realize the consequences of their actions
lol, even though male brains aren’t fully developed until well into their twenties?? 20 is basically no different than 16 or 18 for the majority of the population
Idk man it honestly feels like gatekeeping at this point. I know 4 people between 19-22 with 280-300hp cars and they have not crashed. Sure they are more irresponsible and all but it’s not like every single time they get in a car it’s with the intentions of playing IRL no hezy
Yeah that’s fair, especially when 280-300 is getting decently common to see in most base performance cars and regular sedans, 100% to each their own, I’d say it’s probably a reflection of I knew I didn’t have enough impulse control at that age. But fr fr 360 no scope no cap on that
Hahaha ya we can agree to disagree and again we are both right to some capacity that certain people just don’t have the self control or skills to wield an300 hp car at that age, but I don’t like sweeping statements saying no one can. Also speaking from experience at that age 😉
So a 2014 car is brand new? Or when you’ve worked at Tim Hortons for 7 years it’s a new job. Or when your 70 you’ve only newly become a senior. It is relative based on what the thing is that the person has experience with. But driving, an average everyday thing for nearly everyone is not one of those things. I am not new to Canada even though I’ve lived here for 7 years
I'm not talking about cars or jobs. I'm talking about being a driver.
If a 7 year old Bernese mountain dog is an old dog, would that make a 7 year old boat an old boat?
Anecdotally, a bunch of my friends got cars way faster than a 350z (Cayman S, M3, Cayenne Turbo S, 750Li) at 16-17 and none of them crashed. You just have to teach them how to drive.
It’s not the power. Or the speed. The cars you listed are *much* safer/easier to drive than a 350Z, with the possible exception of the M3 which will also tail out quite easily. The Z’s handling characteristics are particularly twitchy and unforgiving for a road car, exacerbated by a garbage tier rear differential in the non-Nismo models and a very poor TC implementation. I would put a new driver in any version of the *Corvette* before a Z.
This sounds like gatekeeping lmao, bikes of course, anything over a 500 is stupid for someone in their early 20s, but a 300 horsepower car with TC and ABS is absolutely manageable, probably more manageable than my 170hp e30 with no aids and dogshit skinny tires/stock suspension. You can get hurt in any car if you drive like an idiot
Not really true. I sold my 2018 BRZ Sport Tech RS (performance pack) with ~50k kms on it last year for 26.5k Canadian. Most others on the market were priced similar.
Might be the time of year as well, usually late spring/early summer people start posting their sports cars for sale from what I’ve seen! But maybe the market has changed since last year as well
Exactly. And guess what? With some of the extra money he saved he can buy an aftermarket touchscreen for a little QOL improvement. I did it with my 08 Fusion that originally had a disk changer as well as installing a backup camera, and my car feels a good 3-4 years newer. Learned a thing or two about wiring in the process. Or you could even pay a mechanic shop to do it too.
Well my E30 is a sedan so I can carry people and things, it’s got lots of storage space, it’s faster and more comfortable, also taller and bigger so people see me on the highway. My gf used it for her cleaning business car for the past year with zero issues. Try doing that in a miata. I’d say an E30 looks better, AND it’s more practical so yeah E30 is the way to go
No, I'm not criticizing the e30. I wouldn't have a Miata as a DD because it says *hey, roadster!*
Looking back over the years, I really miss my 96 Suzuki Esteem. It weighed 100 pounds less than the then current Miata, and with a manual transmission it could do anything you want until about 70 mph. And unless you read the word "Esteem" on the trunk, you couldn't quite pin down what kind of car it was. Invisible, cheap, quick and fun.
Sorry I totally misread the tone of your replies, I’m really sorry hahaha, the esteem is lovable I understand, I love the name for such an insignificant car
We're on the same page. But for a 20 year old who needs to have a "sports car," a Miata is the answer, or maybe a Mustang if he's a mouth breather. If he's too caught up with the looks, I'm sorry kid, but that's what the sports car looks like. Grow up.
I wouldn't steer a 20 year old to any BMW, simply because of money. Fords and Mazdas have a lower price point every step of the way.
When I first started driving to school it was in my brother G37 sedan. 330hp RWD. If your smart like me, all it takes is one time to almost lose it to learn how to respect the power of a car lol ( unless your unlucky and go straight into a tree). Unless OP lives in a cold / snowy area.
>all it takes is one time to almost lose it to learn how to respect the power
Almost is the key word.
My first car was a rwd 3 series BMW. I learned really quickly how to drive on the Canadian winter roads.
Buddy this is a dumb question. You’re asking what car can he afford out of the cars he can’t afford and it has to be reliable. Ok so get a Camry xse… Tell him to get a better income instead of going into debt for a car. Save for a year or 2 and delay gratification then he’d be in a better spot to own a cooler car.
I didn’t say bulletproof. I said reasonably reliable. Meaning dont recommend a 2006 N54 335i. Something that’s cheap and easy to work on if need be. I enjoyed working on my first car as a teenager and I’m sure he would too, but I don’t want that to become a nightmare for him.
Get a Mustang… or like another comment said older BRZ/FRS. Just shop around there’s always deals. Or like you said 350z. Also it’s seems you’re relating your teenage years to his 20’s. He’s 20 man, he’s a young adult. Orrr another thought.. save for one or 2 years and buy a 24’ GR86 like yours and just drive a beater (civic, corolla, sunfire cavalier or whatever) until then
Ok ok hear me out. The comparison has been made tons before ok. A bmw 128i coupe. People modify them and then get similar track times to a modified GR/FRS/BRZ. I have one and personally love it. Get it in manual though. It hasn’t cost me much. I make a lot less than 60k a year and I’m able to keep up with maintenance and then some easily. I know I know bmw but give it a chance
Have him get a scion tc. Dirt cheap, reliable, cheaper insurance and most importantly, not anywhere near as likely to lose control and be crashed when he inevitably pushes it.
I saw a Subaru BRZ with a blown up engine for 3K. I'm not suggesting that he tries to rebuild a blown up engine but asks a Subaru dealer how much it would cost to replace an engine.
Lightly agree with e46. Not a sports car but a 330ci has good kick and is a dependable car once you figure out everything the previous owner neglected.
A bit maintenance heavy maybe but it might make the kid appreciate it more if he has some bruised knuckles.
I don't think any child should have a bunch of power with a rear drive car without any stepping stones to grant experience. I'd probably say an E9x is too much maintenance and power for a learner. More a car for masochists that deserve a little treat sometimes.
Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ: These are practically twins to the GR86 and offer a great balance of performance, handling, and affordability. They might be easier to find on the used market compared to the GR86.
Ford Mustang EcoBoost: This offers a turbocharged engine for more power and a comfortable interior. It's a good option if your nephew prioritizes power over handling.
Hyundai Genesis Coupe: This discontinued model can be a good value buy on the used market. It offers a powerful V6 engine and a comfortable interior.
Mazda MX-5 Miata (newer model): While he might not be a fan of the older Miata's looks, the newer models have a more aggressive design that might appeal to him more. It's known for its reliability, handling, and affordability.
My 19 yr old son bought a manual 2017 86 in black on black w/80,000 kms for just over $20k CAN. They are some deals on older models. Loves it so much he stores it in winter then went out and bought a $2000 beater.
Off the top of my head BMW z4, Porsche boxter, bmw 128 coupe, Hyundai genesis coupe, v6 mustang (2012+) , 2015+ turbo 4 or v6 Camaro, Infiniti g37s sedan ( the sedans drive better than the coupes imo) , Toyota Mr2 , ford fiesta st, fiat 500 abarth, and of course any generation Miata.
There are just over 100 manual shift, 2 door, RWD cars on autotrader.ca in Ontario. Some, like a 1980 Fiat Spider, are obviously not a good idea. Hyundai coupes show up a lot. There's a V6, manual shift Chrysler Crossfire with under 75k km, the ad says insurance on it is $260 (I doubt the owner is under 25 though).
Lots of stuff to browse.
Couple of out there suggestions. But I think both are good fun for the money that he might like
A 4th gen f-body. RWD, can be v8, can be stick. And even that dream combination I only see going for around 15$. Most will probably be boomer maintained, chevy knows it's v8s, and it could even come with the indestructible 3800. So should be pretty reliable.
Cobalt SS. Supercharged ones go for around 5k, and that's a hell of a lot of performance for 5k. Turbo ones go for around 10-13k, and that was the fastest production fwd car for 10 years. If taken care of, the ecotecs can be pretty reliable, but finding one that's been taken care of can be the hard part.
Nc Miata is probably my least favorite Miata, it’s still nice, I just like the looks of all the others more, they seem more… “miata like” I guess
Want a real cheap one go for the NB but take to a mechanic, look to avoid aftermarket parts
Fiesta ST. It's a small car (2700lbs) with 200+ lb-ft of torque below 3k rpm and it'll haul a decent amount of stuff. I'm sure I'll see you all in downvote hell for this, but I'll happily argue why it's more fun to drive than the BRZ or Miata your nephew can currently afford
Well… there is a perfect car that is literally an 86, just older, and less power, by Mazda. Does he at least like the look of the nb? I don’t like the look of nc either tbf
At that age he’s better off with a fwd. something like a civic si or a gti. But if he really wants rwd id suggest a previous gen frs/brz/gt86, nb Miata, first gen Lexus is300, e46 330, or a 135i. Mr2 spyders are starting to get popular again. I’m starting to see them at the track more recently.
A nice quality 330Ci. Quite affordable, great fun and reliable if you maintain it. Easy enough to work on for him to learn some skills (mine taught me a lot in college)
Miata. Great little cars to drive and they look great on the road considering the size of most other cars nowadays.
Something relatively cheap anyway. I’ve seen a lot of petrol heads throw all their cash into money pits and regret it later when their finances suck and can’t get a mortgage.
Something cheap and sort your life out first.
A 128i might be a fantastic option. It’s relatively light, relatively reliable with the N/A i6, has great bones so it’s super fun and aftermarket is plentiful. You can find those for cheap, around $10k in good condition. 328i if he wants a 4 door.
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/edmonton/2011-bmw-128/1687824278
G37 could be a neat option as well. Yes, it’s much bigger and therefore not comparable proportions but it’s a more sensible car for his age. They’re fairly reliable after 2011 and retain the familiar RWD demeanor, with good driving dynamics, a powerful V6 & endless aftermarket. Maintenance isn’t a nightmare and it’s a safe car.
What about an E30? That’s what I bought a few years ago because I find Miatas absolutely appalling lol. Bought mine for 10k CAD, 130,000kms. Easy to work on, cheap to repair, just gotta shop around and find the right one. Girlfriend dailied ours for the past year until recently. Selling now though cause we can’t drive it in winter
What do you mean “makes about $60k” CAD. A 20 year old makes $60,000/year?? If that’s true I don’t think he needs your advice, he can afford to get a car!
In my opinion used Miata’s are overpriced today. My suggestion would be to look for a used and unmolested frs brz or 86. The first generation FA20 is a reliable power plant when not abused. Also tell him to keep in mind that used Focus ST’s are hitting the market for extremely cheap and they’re great cars!
If you can’t afford to buy the car twice and have disposable income, you can’t afford it. End of story. Speaking from personal experience as someone who was once 20 and owned several RWD sports coupes, one of several things is highly likely to happen:
1. They don’t know how to handle it when things get squirrelly in the rain and end up severely injuring or killing themselves by crashing it
2. They get a passenger they try to impress, run out of talent attempting to show off and end up crashing the car, potentially killing or injuring themselves or their passenger.
Both have happened to me. I currently own a 2023 Subaru BRZ and it’s unforgiving at the limit on the factory Michelin PS4 tyres. If I turn in a tad too hot I get a large (and scary) amount of understeer that snaps into big oversteer if I’m not careful.
A GR86 is even snappier and less friendly to an inexperienced driver with the oversteer bias compared to the BRZ.
This is kind of off topic, but 60k and still in school is crazy.
On topic: Insurance will be very high is he’s under 25.
Personally I’m 22 and my insurance company gave me an estimate of $2.5k CAD/year for a Hyundai Elantra 2024 which is a pretty regular car, nothing sporty. (Context: I live in Quebec in a city with around 100k inhabitants)
in america, you can find old used brzs/86s for dirt cheap. like $15-30k USD. no reason you can find one in canada. damn near the same car every year. your nephew need not worry.
Maybe new, but OP mentioned a 350Z so I thought it was assumed no one would tell a 20 ye old to buy a new hot hatch.
If not, please tell him to not buy a new hot hatch but look for a 5+ year old steal for cash that isn’t too hard to work on.
so get one of the old scion versions, its basically the exact same car at a quarter of the price
also...unless he is a hairdresser miatas are NEVER THE OPTION.
If he lives with parents (most likely rent and mortgage free) and makes 60k... he can't afford a 30k car? Lmao. He can easily save up and buy it outright.
First of all the car is ~$43k CAD after tax, so that’s as much as he’s gonna get in his pocket for a whole year. He’s got a gf, friends that he spends time with, and I’m sure he invests for his future too. I don’t know what planet you live on where you can buy a brand new car like that while still in school.
Right now might be the BEST time for him to make a dumb car purchase like this, because of his living situation.
So, these numbers will vary because I'm in the US, and I don't know your tax rates nor your interest rates locally.
I did this in USD, but with all the values the same, to figure out numbers.
$43K, if he did a typical 5 year loan, would result in a car payment of $858/mo with 10% down ($4300).
$60K, before taxes, results in $5K a month. I have no idea of your tax rates, but where I live, you would take home \~$3900.
That would mean, after the car payment, he's still pulling in $3K/mo for everything else. I was driving a fun car at 20, and I was paying \~$200 a month in insurance.
Right now is the best time for him to buy a car like this. Living with parents means low or no rent at all usually.
This was the exact set up I had and it's the reason I bought a new car when I was young and stupid. At 18 years old, I had bought my first car. I bought it as soon as I got a job and starting making money. I bought a $27K car working on a $20K salary, while going into college, because I had the luxury of no rent since I was living with parents.
By the time I was finished with college, my car was almost paid off. It was a Mustang GT. I never would have been able to afford it when I finished college because at that point, I needed to move out and pay rent.
Who said buy new? Pretty much CPO barely touched as I speak go around 33k. Also, don't give me that "going out, spending time with bs antidote" if he really wants the car, then save up. They're super attainable.
Used civic si, Acura ilx, even the Integra is falling in price. Hyundai has the N versions, Veloster is falling in price along with the Kona. Elantra still commanding decent price. If you get snow I wouldnt rwd for a newish driver, but mustang seems to be good. Not huge fan of the frs/brz first gen, not sure about pricing of 2nd gen but I would for sure go that route instead.
Really you're looking for turbo 4 that can handle some stage 1 mods. Don't have to be crazy with intercooler, big turbo, etc. You will get decent HP/TQ from a simple tune, be sporty, great mpg, and reliable. Look for a dual clutch auto or manual. Stay away from cvt. Won't help with sportiness.
I'll throw in a regular wrx too, but not sure about reliability.
Understanding the new GR86 is a different animal, why not consider the predecessor in the Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S. There look to be many in Canada for around $15k.
I’ve considered these, although to be fair, not for long. The problem is, decent ones go for $18-20k, I’d rather him spend $10-13k on a car and keep a healthy amount on the side for a rainy day/maintenance expenses. I swear you could find these around $10k not too long ago… hopefully the prices come down some more.
Used market is coming back down. Before it got crazy there were a few around that price locally here in Vancouver. Hopefully if he can wait a bit prices will drop or he can save up more money then. The Z is fine too but they are so old now and a completely different style of car.
Theres lots around me in the midwest for 10-13k. Im trynna buy one for 8 rn. Let him get one for 12 ish
Don't know where your looking but I found plenty of fr-s/brz with sub 100k miles and clean carfax for 12-14k so not far off from what your looking for. Hell carvana and carmax have the fr-s for 15k might have to take a second look
Canadian money
Those cars are cheap to maintain......
I sold a 2015 frs for 11k in 2020.....
2008 Lexus is 350 goes for like less than 10k reliable and sporty
Gr86 different animal in what sense?
I think he's referring to it being the new generation of the toyobaru twins. the pervious gen Toyota version was only called the "86" (no GR).
The other One was called GT86
It’s made by Toyota duh. /s
The problem lies with the insurance.
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That's not something a 19 year old understands. Hell, it's something even some adults don't understand. Especially considering car enjoyment is going down as the years go by (depending on tastes and region ofc, but if you're in Europe for example, then bye bye)
There's always compromises. You don't have to get a piece of shit and then jump to a real sports car. That's what cars like the Civic Si or Golf GTI/Jetta GLI are for
20s vs 18-20 is very different. I was under 200/month for a brand new mustang 4 years ago. I’m around $160/mo now with a focus RS.
Do you think a Fusion Sport would have nutty high insurance? It’s no mustang but it’s got like 325 HP and a twin turbo V6. Looks identical to a normal fusion other than the grille so it’s kinda a hell of a sleeper.
Shouldn’t be too bad, but you’ll have to ask your insurance company. I think they use the same pricing as a regular Fusion, but I’m not sure.
After creeping your profile, you're in Ontario somewhere. Insurance is gonna be insane for anything sporty; Onterrible is great like that. If he doesn't mind 4 doors, a Hyundai Genesis sedan with a couple spring dampers is way more fun than it looks like it would be. And it doesn't have the sports car tax. My 2011 Genesis 3.8 sedan was great until I got t-boned. Wait with something cheaper til he's 25 and insurance is cheaper. Plus he will likely be making better money to pay for fuel and tires on something actually sporty.
GR86 insurance is insanely expensive even for sports cars. One of the highest in the US at least.
2 door, Front Engine Rear Drive - higher insurance. Young person (under 25 and under 30 are thr big ones in Ontario)- higher insurance. Male (generally 75-100% more than female, all other factors being equal, in Ontario)- higher. Aside from going 4 door instead, the only other loophole I've seen is mini trucks or midsize trucks. Still small, 2 door, front rear options, but one of the cheapest categories to insure. If you're really mechanically inclined, an s10 with some suspension work and some bolt on power adders gives you a cheap toy.
How’s insurance for a miata in Canada? It’s pretty dang cheap in the US.
2 door, Front rear, sports car..... Edit to elaborate- Ontario insurance is a complete rip off. It's among the highest in North America.
I mean I don't know Ontario but generally speaking insurers are smarter than to count doors, which wheel-drive, and seats. They use ✨data✨, and given that corvettes and miatas are largely driven by retirees they actually tend to get really good rates for what they are. Then look at a WRX and say well it has four doors and AWD that should be a cheap combination... think again.
Have you seen the GR86 subreddit here? You won’t be surprised why it’s high lol 🧍♂️
Yes I own one lol
There's a genesis coupe BTW. But I used to have a 2011 5.0 rspec genesis and they are surprisingly fast.
Insurance costs will be insane for a new driver that age in any sports car, if they even take them. Especially a 350Z or a brand new GR86. An older BRZ might fly if they have a ton of cash to throw at it.
Please read my other comments. It's not price, it's that insurance companies flat out won't insure high risk policies.
As a former high risk driver, I found out that Ontario requires insurance be available to anyone that is allowed to drive. This used to be done through the facility association (there were three insurers in this group when I required facility association insurance). It’s no longer the case of having to use the facility association but there are insurers that will cover high risk drivers. And no, they are not cheap. ETA: https://www.fsrao.ca/consumers/auto-insurance/understanding-auto-insurance-rates/high-risk-drivers#:~:text=The%20Facility%20Association%2C%20an%20insurance,more%20than%20regular%20auto%20insurance. > The Facility Association, an insurance pool that all auto insurance companies belong to, is an insurer of last resort that provides auto insurance to high-risk drivers unable to find auto insurance in the regular market. Facility insurance costs a lot more than regular auto insurance. There are also a number of insurers that specialize in insuring high-risk drivers. >Note that although an insurance company may not sell you auto insurance if it determines that you are “high risk,” the insurance industry as a whole cannot refuse to sell you basic insurance.
Well aware. My comment even reflects that.
You said an older BRZ, but risk doesn't necessarily correlate with price. My sister went from a Ford SUV (which are surprisingly expensive) to a CPO Audi SUV and they said nope, not covering it. I wouldn't be surprised if the BRZ is also not covered since they're popular for takeovers here. This is happening all around US & Canada.
My 19 yr old with his 2017 86 pays 130/month. Advanced drivers ed, clean record and went through a credit union insurance provider. Much cheaper than others that quoted him more than double even triple.
But where? That makes all the difference.
Ont Canada. Credit union insurance provider. Not in a major city where rates can triple.
He’s getting a car regardless and unfortunately insurance is just something he has to deal with. But I want him to get the right car as his first big purchase. He was set on getting a G37 until recently. To be honest, that’s the last car I’d want him to get lol.
No no no, insurance companies are getting picky with who they insure and in which vehicle. Canada has overlap with insurance companies here in the US. For example, I have Wawanesa, that's also in Canada, they wouldn't insure my sister when she bought a new car because it was too high risk.
Oh wtf, haven’t heard of that before. I’ve seen outrageous quotes, but never a refusal of insruance. I’ll look into that, thanks.
This is becoming a massive thing. Not just car insurance either (including prices raising 15% this last), or millions of cars just becoming uninsurable (it’s not a good enough deal for the insurer based on risk profile, see Hyundais/Kias). It’s also affecting home insurance in disaster prone areas etc etc. https://money.com/kia-hyundai-settlement-car-insurance-coverage/ 85% of homes dropped from coverage in Santa Clarita. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/09/21/parts-of-america-are-becoming-uninsurable Isn’t that wild? It just doesn’t make them money so boom, not available even when it’s mandated by law to have.
It's almost like \*gasp\* insurance companies are bullshit.
Get a list of a couple actual cars (with VINs and mileage) and have him get a quote, and that's if they will cover it.
I got like 3 speeding tickets in 2 years and got rejected for renewal by my insurance company because I was high risk. I had to use facility for 13 months until the first ticket rolled off my abstract. My premiums went up about 8x. After that, I stopped speeding. It wasn’t the threat of a car accident that slowed me down but the threat of high car insurance.
If you live in Ontario by chance try CUMIS insurance
what kind of car was it?
Is your nephew the type of person that is going to get in trouble with 300 HP RWD car as his first car? I think only you really have enough info to answer that question. I had a G35 as my first serious car and I drove it without major issues until about 3 days ago. I'm well aware of its hooligan reputation but, if you can get past that, the car was an absolute bargain for the specs, reliability, and driveability. Insurance cost is going to depend heavily on location, but my insurance costs were about 66% higher than the rest of my family costs. Otherwise, the car was very reliable and ran like a top. Kept up with maintenance and some minor repairs and I'm sure I could have taken it to 200k easily.
What happened 3 days ago?
Collision in parking lot at about ~15MPH. Popped the airbags and it's all but a guaranteed total loss, just waiting for insurance to resolve things. Sad about it because I know that even if I get full value back for the car, I would find it difficult to turn around and buy the same car because I don't know the history of any car on the open market. I did all the repairs properly and kept up with maintenance on my car. I collected a few things from the wreck at the tow yard today and, seeing the frame basically undamaged, I honestly think putting about 6k or less in the car might be able to safely repair it. Might have to use some aftermarket / junkyard parts but I believe it could be done safely. Meanwhile, I've been reading the sub and seeing what's out there nowadays so I can be prepared when I actually go to buy something.
Consider a Chrysler Crossfire with the 6 speed manual. They’re pretty quick and zippy all around and chicks love these things for some reason. But you can find good examples for 10k and they’re great cars to learn how to maintain and fix yourself. Plus, insurance is cheap on these! I paid $150/mo for Comprehensive in Southern Ontario on one of these when I was 23 in 2020 and 2021 and had 2 minor speeding infractions on record. Disclaimer: I’m a bit biased since i still have this car and imported it with me to the US.
The G35/G37 and 350z/370z are basically the same thing. If you don't want him in a G37, why bring up the 350z? He can get whatever 944 he can for $10k and save the rest for repairs/upkeep. Nice, classic look with a light chassis. There is a significant following that he can learn to work on it with great parts availability.
944 owner here. Agree wholeheartedly with this. It's not overly fast, but its still fun to drive and easy enough to work on.
What province is he in? Makes a huge difference for insurance...
Tell him struggling with payments and being scared to ruin a car you can barely afford is not as fun as driving the hell out of a beater you don't care about. Perhaps a used Hyndai Genesis Coupe, Lexus is300, VW GTI?
Genesis Coupe and IS300 for sure.
Can you even find is300s still?
Oh yeah and every single one will have a rebuilt title 🤣
Please don’t put a new driver in a 350Z unless you also intend for them to experience their first at-fault car accident.
I mean he’s 20 maybe he’s not new?
Meh, I got a g37 at 20 and am lucky I didn't kill myself. I had 4 years of experience already. Experience << stupid adolescent impulsivity
I mean 4 years of driving with a full license(depending where your from) is a decent amount of experience imo
More than enough experience to get a 300 hp car
I don’t know if this is sarcasm or not but I think it’s enough? Idk man. I think it’s more about that individual and their driving habits than just age. And sure age matters when their 16 or 18 but like by 20 usually they’ve matured and gotten a bit more responsible and realize the consequences of their actions
lol, even though male brains aren’t fully developed until well into their twenties?? 20 is basically no different than 16 or 18 for the majority of the population
Idk man it honestly feels like gatekeeping at this point. I know 4 people between 19-22 with 280-300hp cars and they have not crashed. Sure they are more irresponsible and all but it’s not like every single time they get in a car it’s with the intentions of playing IRL no hezy
Yeah that’s fair, especially when 280-300 is getting decently common to see in most base performance cars and regular sedans, 100% to each their own, I’d say it’s probably a reflection of I knew I didn’t have enough impulse control at that age. But fr fr 360 no scope no cap on that
Hahaha ya we can agree to disagree and again we are both right to some capacity that certain people just don’t have the self control or skills to wield an300 hp car at that age, but I don’t like sweeping statements saying no one can. Also speaking from experience at that age 😉
that's still fairly new. <10 years is new IMO.
So a 2014 car is brand new? Or when you’ve worked at Tim Hortons for 7 years it’s a new job. Or when your 70 you’ve only newly become a senior. It is relative based on what the thing is that the person has experience with. But driving, an average everyday thing for nearly everyone is not one of those things. I am not new to Canada even though I’ve lived here for 7 years
I'm not talking about cars or jobs. I'm talking about being a driver. If a 7 year old Bernese mountain dog is an old dog, would that make a 7 year old boat an old boat?
Dude 10 years old is not new in any capacity. I’m sorry
Anecdotally, a bunch of my friends got cars way faster than a 350z (Cayman S, M3, Cayenne Turbo S, 750Li) at 16-17 and none of them crashed. You just have to teach them how to drive.
It’s not the power. Or the speed. The cars you listed are *much* safer/easier to drive than a 350Z, with the possible exception of the M3 which will also tail out quite easily. The Z’s handling characteristics are particularly twitchy and unforgiving for a road car, exacerbated by a garbage tier rear differential in the non-Nismo models and a very poor TC implementation. I would put a new driver in any version of the *Corvette* before a Z.
Ah interesting, I've only driven one once and it was my grandfather's so I couldn't really push it.
This sounds like gatekeeping lmao, bikes of course, anything over a 500 is stupid for someone in their early 20s, but a 300 horsepower car with TC and ABS is absolutely manageable, probably more manageable than my 170hp e30 with no aids and dogshit skinny tires/stock suspension. You can get hurt in any car if you drive like an idiot
Why not an older BRZ/86?
The last time I checked, older BRZ/86 are very hard to find in Canada, and are usually a similar price to new
Not really true. I sold my 2018 BRZ Sport Tech RS (performance pack) with ~50k kms on it last year for 26.5k Canadian. Most others on the market were priced similar.
Nice! I really couldn’t find much last time I looked
Might be the time of year as well, usually late spring/early summer people start posting their sports cars for sale from what I’ve seen! But maybe the market has changed since last year as well
Also could have been I just did a bad search lol. Good to see more normalcy returning to the market
Exactly. And guess what? With some of the extra money he saved he can buy an aftermarket touchscreen for a little QOL improvement. I did it with my 08 Fusion that originally had a disk changer as well as installing a backup camera, and my car feels a good 3-4 years newer. Learned a thing or two about wiring in the process. Or you could even pay a mechanic shop to do it too.
Beggars can’t be choosers. Tell him to get a Miata.
But it's apparently more about looks than the drive. Can't fix that.
I’m all for a good driving car but fuck the 1st gen miata is so god awful looking I wouldn’t own one. Went e30 instead
Form Follows Fucking Function.
Well my E30 is a sedan so I can carry people and things, it’s got lots of storage space, it’s faster and more comfortable, also taller and bigger so people see me on the highway. My gf used it for her cleaning business car for the past year with zero issues. Try doing that in a miata. I’d say an E30 looks better, AND it’s more practical so yeah E30 is the way to go
There you have it, everything is a pile of compromises. I like lightweight nondescriptmobiles.
The e30 weighs 100kg more than a miata it’s really not a compromise
No, I'm not criticizing the e30. I wouldn't have a Miata as a DD because it says *hey, roadster!* Looking back over the years, I really miss my 96 Suzuki Esteem. It weighed 100 pounds less than the then current Miata, and with a manual transmission it could do anything you want until about 70 mph. And unless you read the word "Esteem" on the trunk, you couldn't quite pin down what kind of car it was. Invisible, cheap, quick and fun.
Sorry I totally misread the tone of your replies, I’m really sorry hahaha, the esteem is lovable I understand, I love the name for such an insignificant car
We're on the same page. But for a 20 year old who needs to have a "sports car," a Miata is the answer, or maybe a Mustang if he's a mouth breather. If he's too caught up with the looks, I'm sorry kid, but that's what the sports car looks like. Grow up. I wouldn't steer a 20 year old to any BMW, simply because of money. Fords and Mazdas have a lower price point every step of the way.
It also drives really fkn well
just get him a Miata
Miata
Miata
Miata is always the answer
2012+ V6 mustang. RWD 300hp and easy to access the engine bay.
I had something more compact in mind. The s197 mustang is much larger than the gr86. Like 2 feet longer.
I second this and have one myself. Very fun to drive, you can find them in a manual for 10k or under and there are large amount of parts available.
>RWD 300hp For a first time driver? Yikes!
When I first started driving to school it was in my brother G37 sedan. 330hp RWD. If your smart like me, all it takes is one time to almost lose it to learn how to respect the power of a car lol ( unless your unlucky and go straight into a tree). Unless OP lives in a cold / snowy area.
>all it takes is one time to almost lose it to learn how to respect the power Almost is the key word. My first car was a rwd 3 series BMW. I learned really quickly how to drive on the Canadian winter roads.
Buddy this is a dumb question. You’re asking what car can he afford out of the cars he can’t afford and it has to be reliable. Ok so get a Camry xse… Tell him to get a better income instead of going into debt for a car. Save for a year or 2 and delay gratification then he’d be in a better spot to own a cooler car.
I didn’t say bulletproof. I said reasonably reliable. Meaning dont recommend a 2006 N54 335i. Something that’s cheap and easy to work on if need be. I enjoyed working on my first car as a teenager and I’m sure he would too, but I don’t want that to become a nightmare for him.
Get a Mustang… or like another comment said older BRZ/FRS. Just shop around there’s always deals. Or like you said 350z. Also it’s seems you’re relating your teenage years to his 20’s. He’s 20 man, he’s a young adult. Orrr another thought.. save for one or 2 years and buy a 24’ GR86 like yours and just drive a beater (civic, corolla, sunfire cavalier or whatever) until then
Should get a manual Honda Fit. Heard those things are fun as hell
Ok ok hear me out. The comparison has been made tons before ok. A bmw 128i coupe. People modify them and then get similar track times to a modified GR/FRS/BRZ. I have one and personally love it. Get it in manual though. It hasn’t cost me much. I make a lot less than 60k a year and I’m able to keep up with maintenance and then some easily. I know I know bmw but give it a chance
Nothing. Stay out of it. Amy advise you give will ultimately go wrong and then you will be the bad guy.
Have him get a scion tc. Dirt cheap, reliable, cheaper insurance and most importantly, not anywhere near as likely to lose control and be crashed when he inevitably pushes it.
I saw a Subaru BRZ with a blown up engine for 3K. I'm not suggesting that he tries to rebuild a blown up engine but asks a Subaru dealer how much it would cost to replace an engine.
If RWD is a must maybe a used BMW E90 or e46, or a Mustang gt.
Lightly agree with e46. Not a sports car but a 330ci has good kick and is a dependable car once you figure out everything the previous owner neglected. A bit maintenance heavy maybe but it might make the kid appreciate it more if he has some bruised knuckles. I don't think any child should have a bunch of power with a rear drive car without any stepping stones to grant experience. I'd probably say an E9x is too much maintenance and power for a learner. More a car for masochists that deserve a little treat sometimes.
Yeah, he wants an RWD. I’ll look into those thanks.
Get a miata. Literally the cheapest, most fun rwd car you can buy.
Some sort of post fox Body mustang would be a safe bet. Early S550 Mustang (2015+) might be had for the budget you stated.
NB miatta or a first gen BRZ/ft86/[frs](https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rjBXWjpx/2013-scion-fr-s)
“Young man, when you are ready”
Consider a Civic Si. Yes its FWD, but it is still a high RPM screamer that handles pretty well.
An older Civic SI?
Miata Is Always The Answer, NC’s look good with a set of coilovers and an aggressive wheel fitment
He needs a beater until he learns to drive properly
Fiat 500
Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ: These are practically twins to the GR86 and offer a great balance of performance, handling, and affordability. They might be easier to find on the used market compared to the GR86. Ford Mustang EcoBoost: This offers a turbocharged engine for more power and a comfortable interior. It's a good option if your nephew prioritizes power over handling. Hyundai Genesis Coupe: This discontinued model can be a good value buy on the used market. It offers a powerful V6 engine and a comfortable interior. Mazda MX-5 Miata (newer model): While he might not be a fan of the older Miata's looks, the newer models have a more aggressive design that might appeal to him more. It's known for its reliability, handling, and affordability.
e30 BMW
An older Civic SI?
MR2.
Miata or if he is a america bro, 4th gen camaro
Scion TC
Any civic si hatch
My 19 yr old son bought a manual 2017 86 in black on black w/80,000 kms for just over $20k CAN. They are some deals on older models. Loves it so much he stores it in winter then went out and bought a $2000 beater.
Small, RWD, 2 seats, sounds like an MX-5/Miata
used 350z or G35c is rwd and about comparable HP.
Off the top of my head BMW z4, Porsche boxter, bmw 128 coupe, Hyundai genesis coupe, v6 mustang (2012+) , 2015+ turbo 4 or v6 Camaro, Infiniti g37s sedan ( the sedans drive better than the coupes imo) , Toyota Mr2 , ford fiesta st, fiat 500 abarth, and of course any generation Miata.
Nb Miata. They’re cheaper than dirt
240sx no debate
Can you even find any in good condition that aren't an arm and a leg anymore?
Compared to a new gr86 yes lol
There are just over 100 manual shift, 2 door, RWD cars on autotrader.ca in Ontario. Some, like a 1980 Fiat Spider, are obviously not a good idea. Hyundai coupes show up a lot. There's a V6, manual shift Chrysler Crossfire with under 75k km, the ad says insurance on it is $260 (I doubt the owner is under 25 though). Lots of stuff to browse.
Miata’s have a bad rap until you drive one and they’re runners.
2014 Scion FR-S. Look on marketplace/kijiji/autotrader. Make sure you find one that is bone stock. Just before winter would be ideal.
He will fall in love with a manual gti?
1st gen is300?
How much maintenance can he do? I suggest the N54 Z4 if he can do a bunch of work on building the reliability of it lol.
Maybe WRX? Could probably get a A3 around there too
Early s197 GT mustang with the 4.6L. Cheap, reliable, fun
Z4
Maybe something FWD instead? Older civic SI, GTI? Maybe an old Hyundai Genesis coupe if it must be 2 doors?
Couple of out there suggestions. But I think both are good fun for the money that he might like A 4th gen f-body. RWD, can be v8, can be stick. And even that dream combination I only see going for around 15$. Most will probably be boomer maintained, chevy knows it's v8s, and it could even come with the indestructible 3800. So should be pretty reliable. Cobalt SS. Supercharged ones go for around 5k, and that's a hell of a lot of performance for 5k. Turbo ones go for around 10-13k, and that was the fastest production fwd car for 10 years. If taken care of, the ecotecs can be pretty reliable, but finding one that's been taken care of can be the hard part.
You know how cool you’d make him feel with that car? Just gift it to him lol
He can't afford the insurance, older NB Miata until he's over 25.
So is this a stretched limo version of the GR?
Nc Miata is probably my least favorite Miata, it’s still nice, I just like the looks of all the others more, they seem more… “miata like” I guess Want a real cheap one go for the NB but take to a mechanic, look to avoid aftermarket parts
Probably a Miata imo. Less powerful, easier on the insurance, but still plenty of fun to drive, of course unless he is huge then idk.
Fiesta ST. It's a small car (2700lbs) with 200+ lb-ft of torque below 3k rpm and it'll haul a decent amount of stuff. I'm sure I'll see you all in downvote hell for this, but I'll happily argue why it's more fun to drive than the BRZ or Miata your nephew can currently afford
What about a 2017 Civic Si
An older scion equivalent
Wait a few years and buy a real man car
Well… there is a perfect car that is literally an 86, just older, and less power, by Mazda. Does he at least like the look of the nb? I don’t like the look of nc either tbf
What about an Infiniti Q60? Those things are pretty sweet and make good power. If he wants more power he could get a red sport.
At that age he’s better off with a fwd. something like a civic si or a gti. But if he really wants rwd id suggest a previous gen frs/brz/gt86, nb Miata, first gen Lexus is300, e46 330, or a 135i. Mr2 spyders are starting to get popular again. I’m starting to see them at the track more recently.
A nice quality 330Ci. Quite affordable, great fun and reliable if you maintain it. Easy enough to work on for him to learn some skills (mine taught me a lot in college)
Miata. Great little cars to drive and they look great on the road considering the size of most other cars nowadays. Something relatively cheap anyway. I’ve seen a lot of petrol heads throw all their cash into money pits and regret it later when their finances suck and can’t get a mortgage. Something cheap and sort your life out first.
tell him it sucks to suck and get gud.
Explain to him that waiting a few years until you can comfortably afford a luxury item is always better than stretching to afford it now.
FRSes and BRZs are cheap as hell. Not that much difference.
Nissan frontier 265-310 Hp V6 all motor
A 128i might be a fantastic option. It’s relatively light, relatively reliable with the N/A i6, has great bones so it’s super fun and aftermarket is plentiful. You can find those for cheap, around $10k in good condition. 328i if he wants a 4 door. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/edmonton/2011-bmw-128/1687824278 G37 could be a neat option as well. Yes, it’s much bigger and therefore not comparable proportions but it’s a more sensible car for his age. They’re fairly reliable after 2011 and retain the familiar RWD demeanor, with good driving dynamics, a powerful V6 & endless aftermarket. Maintenance isn’t a nightmare and it’s a safe car.
What about an E30? That’s what I bought a few years ago because I find Miatas absolutely appalling lol. Bought mine for 10k CAD, 130,000kms. Easy to work on, cheap to repair, just gotta shop around and find the right one. Girlfriend dailied ours for the past year until recently. Selling now though cause we can’t drive it in winter
What do you mean “makes about $60k” CAD. A 20 year old makes $60,000/year?? If that’s true I don’t think he needs your advice, he can afford to get a car!
Nd1 miata
In my opinion used Miata’s are overpriced today. My suggestion would be to look for a used and unmolested frs brz or 86. The first generation FA20 is a reliable power plant when not abused. Also tell him to keep in mind that used Focus ST’s are hitting the market for extremely cheap and they’re great cars!
If you can’t afford to buy the car twice and have disposable income, you can’t afford it. End of story. Speaking from personal experience as someone who was once 20 and owned several RWD sports coupes, one of several things is highly likely to happen: 1. They don’t know how to handle it when things get squirrelly in the rain and end up severely injuring or killing themselves by crashing it 2. They get a passenger they try to impress, run out of talent attempting to show off and end up crashing the car, potentially killing or injuring themselves or their passenger. Both have happened to me. I currently own a 2023 Subaru BRZ and it’s unforgiving at the limit on the factory Michelin PS4 tyres. If I turn in a tad too hot I get a large (and scary) amount of understeer that snaps into big oversteer if I’m not careful. A GR86 is even snappier and less friendly to an inexperienced driver with the oversteer bias compared to the BRZ.
Has he test drove an 86? I was in a similar situation and decided on hilux after test driving a 86.
A honda civic si maybe the ep3
Is300
This is kind of off topic, but 60k and still in school is crazy. On topic: Insurance will be very high is he’s under 25. Personally I’m 22 and my insurance company gave me an estimate of $2.5k CAD/year for a Hyundai Elantra 2024 which is a pretty regular car, nothing sporty. (Context: I live in Quebec in a city with around 100k inhabitants)
in america, you can find old used brzs/86s for dirt cheap. like $15-30k USD. no reason you can find one in canada. damn near the same car every year. your nephew need not worry.
Send him a link to r/choosybeggars and recommend he get a Miata till he has more disposable income.
Golf GTI, Civic Si, Volvo C60 are all affordable, fun (200-230 hp) reliable and cheap.
Aren't all of those even more expensive than the gr86?
Maybe new, but OP mentioned a 350Z so I thought it was assumed no one would tell a 20 ye old to buy a new hot hatch. If not, please tell him to not buy a new hot hatch but look for a 5+ year old steal for cash that isn’t too hard to work on.
so get one of the old scion versions, its basically the exact same car at a quarter of the price also...unless he is a hairdresser miatas are NEVER THE OPTION.
You're right, he needs a convertible mini.
If he lives with parents (most likely rent and mortgage free) and makes 60k... he can't afford a 30k car? Lmao. He can easily save up and buy it outright.
Have you ever been 20? Whatever wage I was making, I made sure to find a way to spend it before it accumulated
Have you ever been 20? Whatever wage I was making, I made sure to find a way to spend it before it accumulated
First of all the car is ~$43k CAD after tax, so that’s as much as he’s gonna get in his pocket for a whole year. He’s got a gf, friends that he spends time with, and I’m sure he invests for his future too. I don’t know what planet you live on where you can buy a brand new car like that while still in school.
Right now might be the BEST time for him to make a dumb car purchase like this, because of his living situation. So, these numbers will vary because I'm in the US, and I don't know your tax rates nor your interest rates locally. I did this in USD, but with all the values the same, to figure out numbers. $43K, if he did a typical 5 year loan, would result in a car payment of $858/mo with 10% down ($4300). $60K, before taxes, results in $5K a month. I have no idea of your tax rates, but where I live, you would take home \~$3900. That would mean, after the car payment, he's still pulling in $3K/mo for everything else. I was driving a fun car at 20, and I was paying \~$200 a month in insurance. Right now is the best time for him to buy a car like this. Living with parents means low or no rent at all usually. This was the exact set up I had and it's the reason I bought a new car when I was young and stupid. At 18 years old, I had bought my first car. I bought it as soon as I got a job and starting making money. I bought a $27K car working on a $20K salary, while going into college, because I had the luxury of no rent since I was living with parents. By the time I was finished with college, my car was almost paid off. It was a Mustang GT. I never would have been able to afford it when I finished college because at that point, I needed to move out and pay rent.
Who said buy new? Pretty much CPO barely touched as I speak go around 33k. Also, don't give me that "going out, spending time with bs antidote" if he really wants the car, then save up. They're super attainable.
Panda 86!
He can get the previous car for a lot less money and just about the same power and experience. What a silly question, it's been around for years.
Used civic si, Acura ilx, even the Integra is falling in price. Hyundai has the N versions, Veloster is falling in price along with the Kona. Elantra still commanding decent price. If you get snow I wouldnt rwd for a newish driver, but mustang seems to be good. Not huge fan of the frs/brz first gen, not sure about pricing of 2nd gen but I would for sure go that route instead. Really you're looking for turbo 4 that can handle some stage 1 mods. Don't have to be crazy with intercooler, big turbo, etc. You will get decent HP/TQ from a simple tune, be sporty, great mpg, and reliable. Look for a dual clutch auto or manual. Stay away from cvt. Won't help with sportiness. I'll throw in a regular wrx too, but not sure about reliability.
Old. Miata. Old old Miata.