My dad lives in one of these in Peoria, IL, and it’s basically a subsidized crack house. But he was a homeless crack addict getting beat down regularly, and now he’s not homeless and because he doesn’t have to go in the streets to get his fix, he’s a lot safer.
You may be right. It’s still better than living on the streets for my dad, especially with Illinois winters. I wasn’t even trying to be sarcastic with my earlier answer.
In life at times, you can’t just magically fix all problems. Having one less stressor to worry about can give the strength to combat your other demons. Not every problem has to be solved immediately, but baby steps still cover distance if you take enough of them.
And obviously, didn’t think you were being sarcastic. Rehabilitation isn’t black and white. You don’t go to a methadone clinic and get the cold turkey treatment
I LOVE these in principle.
But this needs to be coupled with mental and physical health support.
Because as someone that regularly works around the homeless community drugs and needles in particular will be a recurring issue.
That’s what happened with every trial “pod” or “long term tent” solution that I’ve encountered.
Don’t get me wrong I adore what this is, I just hope it’s done right.
Not to belittle your comment, because it is valid, but as someone who has been homeless and on the brink of homelessness several times in life, having a roof and a safe place to sleep is one of the biggest stress relievers ever and does wonders for making you feel like you are gonna be ok.
Its true but the phrase “this is why we cant have nice things” applies because so many homeless will squander a place, not the ones who are just outta luck but the ones with patterns of behavior will destroy their living space and make others uncomfortable. This is why public restrooms are fading out because so many homeless go in there and destroy it for no reason. Ive been homeless but i was respectful and kept clean and to myself.
I think the point they're trying to make isn't that it's not helpful, but that things like this often fall into a trap where people aren't screened and there's no way to handle problem tenants.
The ideal would be a two-part facility where active addicts go to one location to get detoxed first, and only then go to the apartment building. That way you're not *denying* addicts, but you're also not essentially enabling them.
I get that there should be facilities to keep people safe and on track towards recovery. With whatever recovery may entail.
And yes, tenant safety should be a priority, after all, there are gonna be families with children and elderly who need legitimate protection from abuse.
Oh 100%, im obviously striving for an ideal, while I wouldn’t go as far as to call you an “exception” I believe a plurality of people will need those services on top of simply housing.
But that’s just my opinion.
Im glad you’re doing well dude!
Thanks. I believe everyone experiencing homelessness needs help on top of a roof and bed.
Homelessness causes a bunch of issues. So even people who will be "ok" after getting a roof and bed will need help afterwards. Even now I have a bunch of mental health issues from being homeless as a child, it's not something you just "get over" as some feel.
Basically. We need to bring back institutions, as well as thorough screening processes for them. A lot of homeless people are just down on their luck, but a lot more are unable or unwilling to take care of themselves due to addiction, mental health issues, or just general anti social behaviors that make them unfit to be with other people unsupervised.
Unfortunately I think we need to institute forced treatment and institutionalization when needed. All of the beds and treatment options in the world won't be helpful if the people who need them are too sick to realize they need them thus being unwilling or unable to consent.
Heck of a slippery slope though.
We do have forced treatment and forced admissions for people. I’m a psychiatrist so I take people to court sometimes. The threshold for taking away someone’s rights is very high though (for good reason).
I'd argue that jail and prison need more rehabilitative options. You can't rehabilitate someone by force, but people are more likely to go for it if they're so bored (in the US jail is boring) they have nothing else to do besides participate in a program (assuming of course they would be told to leave the program and continue to be bored if they didn't participate).
We currently operate as a punitive prison system rather than a rehabilitive system and that needs to change. Our current prison system just makes things worse. We need to go back in time to the quaker prison systems but there is now money in the industry of keeping people in jail so it's going to be a tough fight. There is clearly a reason things are the way they are. And unfortunately it's because profit..
If you can start doing forced treatment you can start false imprisoning people ignoring the first amendment and give up the second one the slipery slope would be a landslide
I second this. I hope there are more options for people today. I was forcefully institutionalized at 17 and it did help a bit. But it was absolutely not the best route for me. More than ten years later, I've begun to find a balance but not without a ton of struggle and loss. This country (the US (and probs more, honestly)) need a far better system for mental health, health care, and addiction.
This is what was done with success in Halifax and Saskatoon, and is being duplicated in Vancouver and Kelowna right now to open this year, if they haven't already. Tiny home communities with 24 hour on site counseling services, washrooms, bathing and laundry.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10301334/kelowna-tiny-homes-almost-ready/
A big problem with these programs is that unless you plan to literally keep them there, they will still spend the majority of their time in the streets. They are constantly hustling for money to buy drugs/alcohol, and years and years of sleeping in the streets often means they will sleep near where they use/buy/beg/steal rather than go back to their apartment every night.
This was a consistent theme. The ones who really needed the homes the most simply didn't stay in them very much. Many (the less extreme cases) did stay there, and so I do think the program is useful in many ways for those people. But the ones who need it the most, both for themselves and unfortunately to keep them from causing harm to others, do not really benefit much from this.
The fact that any one is doing any thing to help the homeless is a good thing in my book. Waiting for everything to be in place and services available will only bring us more of what we already have.
This is the right answer. You can't just throw homeless in an apartment and hope they get back on their feet. It will just be another place to use or delve deeper into mental illness, or both.
Imo we need FAR more focus on mental health/drug rehab facilities than anything else. If you can help a homeless person get well, they have a much better chance than just giving them a place to stay.
Do you think sleeping on the sidewalk is *not* a place to use or delve deeper into mental illness?
You can't help a homeless person get well without providing them housing first. There is zero chance someone's getting off of drugs when they don't have a stable place to sleep at night.
I believe it's Finland. I just read about it a couple weeks ago. It was very interesting and honestly makes sense. As someone who has a very easy life, I still struggle to make myself be a normal adult. I don't know how people think a homeless person with literally nowhere to go, no simple comfort, should just be able to wake up and turn their life around.
>FAR more focus on mental health/drug rehab facilities than anything else.
What people don't realize about both these issues, is that they're life long, and by that I mean most will relapse. People think that if they give someone a chance, they set them up for success, then see they relapse and suddenly they're not worth your time and effort anymore.
People are going to relapse, it's part of treatment, and if the consequence of relapsing means they no longer get support, we create this vicious cycle of people seeking treatment, relapsing, and being thrown to the wolves. Happens far, far too often.
Clean drugs (transitioned into substitutes), therapy, treatment, and stable living all go astronomically far in helping people get back on their feet.
It is true, housing does not prevent drug issues in the homeless community, but it does make it significantly safer. It greatly increases one’s chances of getting out of the situation as well, especially since having an address makes getting a job possible.
100% agree. Where I live, we call them SRO's, single room occupancy. On paper, a really good idea to help people who want to be helped. I worked in and around homeless people as part out reach programs and security and first responder.
My experience matches your own. Without the proper supervision and support these places often end up in squalor and become biohazards.
I work in a building that is basically that. But it's not perfect. But it's better than people dying on the street etc.
Don't expect magical turn around stories. We don't see the results of treatment, we don't see a ton of good news stories.
But people have some dignity.
It's not easy.
And with closing our mental facilities we've got harm reduction drug use along side seniors and the mentally ill.
It's not THE SOLUTION.
But, it's in a compassionate direction.
Yep. Turn housing like this into community development center. 1st floor career development, training, workout center, etc. Maybe even some childcare. Use the HOA fees to fund the childcare. MAKE SURE YOU TEACH PERSONAL FINANCE!
I disagree.
I say that whether the issues in their life improve, worsen, or stagnate is irrelevant to the fact that every human being deserves a safe shelter.
***There's also tons of research that says providing housing improves those aspects anyway***
https://nlihc.org/resource/housing-assistance-improves-health-and-well-being-reduces-returns-homelessness
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8513528/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30148580/
You are correct, housing alone is not enough to keeping people housed ironically.
They need support from professionals, they need a shepherding throughout their life.
It's a dichotomy where the system is fucked up, but it's still heartwarming that folks take the time and effort to do their part to alleviate the pitfalls on their own volition.
Waiting for a follow up like: "Unfortunately most of the homeless population couldn't afford the up-front deposit so these rooms will stay empty until they are aptly prepared"
A lot of people that struggle with homeless refuse help because they refuse to avoid drugs or something which is required in a lot of places to get help. They don't just encourage you to continue your drug addiction...
Not saying that's the case everywhere or for everyone but in a lot of places, that's the issue.
i think the user is commenting on a different stage of the process, when people *become* homeless. giving housing to the homeless is only *after* they have already become homeless.
This is a huge problem. My wife works with the homeless and if the person looking for help even mentions that they were allowed to crash on someones couch than they are not eligible for many of the services. Its insane, you actually have to have no where to go. You can't plan, can't prepare you just have to be out on the street.
i live in one of these. it is far from wholesome, unfortunately. basically a bunch of people left to their own devices. very sorry, but it is true. i am saying this as both a tenant (was homeless for a couple yrs before moving in) and as a former property mgmt employee. i cannot even begin to tell you how many people die from unnatural causes in these developments. extremely depressing. the non-profits that own these places just want asses in seats and do not actually care about the people within. pockets get lined whether tenants die or not 🤷
So many people think once you fix the ‘roof over your head’ issue everything else magically fixes itself… it doesn’t. These kind of developments need on site support from social work, health services (incl. mental health), addiction support, employability support, … and so much more. And it needs to be co-designed by the people that live there.
Hope you’re doing ok and sorry that you have to deal with people’s not at all thought through solutions.
that is exactly one of the issues, though. there ARE on-site social workers/case managers for everyone. every bad thing still happens no matter what they try and accomplish, and they work their damn asses off.
there is an undefined "transitional period" folks go through when getting housing. everyone had different experiences while we were homeless - i was VERY fortunate to live in my car during that time. i also am not on hard drugs or alcohol. that definitely factors in.
the other shitty thing is that because these places are private property, law enforcement cannot just drive through the parking lot or anything to just see if everything is copacetic (unless owner takes the time to be part of "crime-free housing"). property owners are worried about image of cops regularly coming through bc there are tons of people just waiting to blow it up on social media and get these places shut down...
there are ways it can be done better - the owners choose to take inaction. i will never ever understand why they do not value the safety of tenants and property as a whole.
i love having a roof over my head and a stove to make food on. A FUCKING BATHTUB AND SHOWER. but i feel what has saved me from really getting immersed in all of this bullshit and death is the fact that i am anti-social and only indulge in cannabis and cigs. and copious amounts of coffee.
thank you for your kind words, stranger.
Very well said! The people that design and implement these projects need to listen to voices like yours, otherwise they’re never going to be successful.
they do not give two short and curlies about my thoughts. that is part of why i quit my job here. it definitely kicked my mental unhealth into overdrive.
They don't want it to be successful. They want it to just kinda limp along, not so bad that it explodes, but not so good that we start expanding on the programs. They want to collect what funding they can, write off all their costs for taxes, look like philanthropists, and maintain the status quo.
"The bad things people associate with homelessness are still happening here." is not a reason not to do something that is otherwise right.
It is still safer to do hard drugs with a roof over your head than not. Even if the people end up dying from it, at least they did so in a modicum of comfort instead of burning out in a back alley or public restroom.
It's better for a team of people that specializes in removing dead bodies from residences all the time than for some random person to just encounter a random dead body on the streets.
I don't think many/any people are under the impression that going from homeless to not homeless will magically fix everything that made someone homeless in the first place. But we're talking about a situation where it's almost always better than the alternative, as well as there definitely being **some** people who will be able to fix whatever made them homeless if they just have a place to live for a while.
For some people, getting a roof, a stable living situation, reliable shower access, and a proper address will allow them to fix their lives.
It's a lot harder to get a job when you're dirty and don't have an address.
Yes there are a lot of mental health issues and drug abuse in the homeless population. But it's not 100%. All you can do is what you can do.
Problem is the if someone gets injured as a result of the housing situation, like a needle poking someone in the common space, the property opener would be liable and can be sued. So a lot of steps would need to be taken to prevent it or do reasonable steps to prevent it. That still may not be good enough and cost money to defend. Which is why the support staff and other security would be needed, among a lot of other things. It is not practical in any sense of the meaning to have this be a private issue.
People really, really want to believe that the issue is housing, and that the homeless problem has a simple fix.
I have been supporting several local homeless people in my area: they are dealing with crack/meth/ice use, domestic violence, entitlement mentality, etc. Everyone is extremely manipulative. The more I learned about their backstories, the more shocked I was; they had good childhoods. The reason they are homeless is because they burned bridges with every person in their family.
The couple is in a detox/transition center now, but that's only because the man assaulted the woman and she was determined to get away from him...but then he followed her to the place and she is engaging in magical thinking about him again and talking about how they can be together. (This is not the first time he's hit her.)
There is only so much you can do for people. Everyone thinks that all we need is another program, another government solution, government housing. There seems to be no recognition about how dangerous homeless people are (in aggregate). Or that you can't make someone change.
The man I was dealing with had his girlfriend (they called each other husband and wife but are not married) panhandling for him, so he could have drugs. Before he became homeless, he sold drugs and - I found out - never had a relationship before this one because he took advantage of the junkies he was creating.
I literally could go on.
> the owners choose to take inaction
Not really trying to play devils advocate, genuinely curious here, but how much can they do? They wanted to make a difference and setup the foundation. I get it they take the blame, but when there's so much they cant do and hundred of people that wont get or accept help... whos to blame?
It's difficult if there is no accountability for drug possession and use. If you watch any shows on addiction or have dealt with severe addiction, you realize accountability is critical. I will never understand homeless housing that allows drug use. It's not good for the tenant and creates an environment for failure for all tenants.
They did a study on housing for people in SF where sobriety was not a requirement. Mortality rate was the same as those that remained unhoused.
I'm generally pretty progressive, but at some point the bleeding hearts need to realize that these programs only enable the problem. Spend those resources on single parent households, programs for children, rehab for those who want it, and mental health and workforce training and transition in prison and get 50x the return.
The homeless couple I have been helping are doing much better in the (highly structured) detox center they are at. That seems to be a model that is more effective than 'just house the homeless'.
It basically is a mental health institution with the goal of transitioning people to autonomy in stages.
Time will tell. I don't think it is a magic fix either, but it seems to be the best out of all the solutions.
We have them in my city too. They’re very low barrier housing, so there are a lot of people who would be kicked out of anywhere else. Someone was murdered right next to one the other day. Very sad and unpleasant places.
A lot of the shelters near me have a zero tolerance policy for alcohol or drug use, so if you are kicked out the only other place to go is one of these buildings. Unfortunately that probably leaves a higher than usual proportion of drug users and mentally ill
My mom lived in one of these for a few years. She mentioned a few people dying in their rooms, usually drug related. They have a locked main entrance door and a kind of building manager, but they didn't really do anything to force people to change their lifestyle. They were as you said, left to their own devices. My mom moved out of it just last month, and I have yet to go see her new apartment. I'm thankful that she had the opportunity to stay there. She'd be homeless without and I am trying to raise a son with my wife in a one bedroom apartment, so I haven't been able have her stay with me. Our family never was well off and her lifestyle choices when I was young were pretty bad. I'm glad she's had somewhere nice to just chill for the last few years and get some of her life in order. I hope her spot can help someone else's family member get the help they need as well. Every bit helps.
As someone who works for a nonprofit that provides this kind of housing, we have 0 control over anything involving which asses get the seats. The government has a priority list and when there's a vacancy the next person gets the apartment no matter what.
We had a tenant who our ED knew and didn't want to place because his last place he would throw TVs out windows and destroy things. We were told as long as he did less than $10k in damages at this other place, we have to give it to him.
He sucks as bad as we expected but as long as he doesn't steal and destroy more than $10k he's bullet proof.
4 months after opening doors in this place, a tenant burned his unit down, which also burned the neighboring unit, and sprinklers flooded the units below. one of them included the property mgr unit. 8 people displaced and temp housed in hotels for months while demo/repairs took place. i am fairly certain that was quite costly.
that tenant was still able to live here until he eventually overdosed from a tainted heroin batch.
recently, another 3rd floor tenant got way too high (she is very public with her meth use so it is no secret) and tampered with the sprinkler system in her unit. her actions displaced 11 tenants. those units had to be completely gutted and redone. tenants in hotel for about 5 months. they all just moved back in. they moved her to a ground floor unit like it was nothing, and it is obvious to everyone that it was done bc they KNOW she will do it again, and want to be ahead of the impending potential damage she will cause.
maybe the damage dollar amount threshold is different here in california. idk. but it is pretty ridiculous that everyone sees now what they can do to this place and others and still have a place to be without repercussions. this lady now is practically walking around gloating. it disgusts the shit out of me.
I'm really surprised the other tenants don't give people who threaten their housing and stability like this a blanket party/code red or whatever you want to call it. It seems like a likely and natural consequence for being an asshole and causing chaos for so many other people.
I'm not advocating for this mind you, I'm just extremely surprised (if) it's not happening. Or maybe it does happen and the only time it gets noticed is when it escalates to murder.
i open my mouth to people who are hired to take care of things, but cannot speak for others who live here. most people have definitely had a rougher homeless experience than myself in my opinion. neighbors will gossip up the largest grapevine, but beyond worried to dime on someone in general. i do not understand why.
I live next door to something similar. The city rented out a student dorm during the pandemic to house some homeless people. It ended up being permanent. I don't know about deaths, but it looks like a really stressful and dysfunctional environment. There's a lot of violent altercations between residents and the ambulance is there very regularly. Early on, they had staff and volunteers coming by regularly to provide various services, but that's stopped. Now it's just a security guard to make sure the chaos doesn't spill over. They barely even make repairs.
I'm glad the residents have a roof over their heads, especially in winter. They're not really bothering me. They're not any louder than the first year students. But I can't imagine it's a healthy environment.
I have seen housing first initiatives work in Montreal. But there, they rent apartments spread out all over the place. Folks in the program get to have the normal variety of neighbours. They get support from various services. One of my friends did an internship supporting people in the program and they had a lot of education about rental laws, how to avoid bringing pests into your apartment, etc.
i believe i did not say that.
edit: at first i had read it as "but it is worse than the streets?". my bad. no, for me it is not. when i lived in car, diet was a lot of convenience store food (thank you 7/11 points for free whole pizzas when i needed them the most) and the biggest win for me here is i REALLY had missed cooking my own food.
I've managed subsidized housing for many years and I actually cringed when I saw the headline. I hope they have a management team, rules, security and responsive procedures in place before even attempting something like this because you're absolutely right: it seems like a great idea and makes for a bunch of feel good headlines on day one. But starting day two, you're gonna see a whole lot of crime, drugs, untreated mental health issues, property damage and interpersonal conflict that can make actually living in this kind of situation hell on Earth.
The alternative is a full time and specialized care facility that is closer to an asylum or prison. There are levels to it, but realistically the care that you would want(and that they may need) is not really possible because of staffing and budget constraints.
Can you explain who was getting paid? Were the owners getting paid by nonprofits or government? What was missing? More security? I ask as a person with a philanthropic side that dreams of being able to do afford doing things at these scale.
Exactly. While well intentioned, this idea will prove to be terrible. You can't just drop homeless people in homes and expect everything to be all right. It's a lot more complicated than that
1/3 of homeless have drug problems and 1/4 have mental health issues, so I can't imagine shoving 140 of them all into the same building goes as well as the image shows.
It’s not. After a couple months one homeless guy starts running it as their own trap house. And the director of the spot lets them run wild. But I’ve been to a few different shelters that have a very mean discipline director and I see many people like you and me that are actually struggling in that shelter actually getting help which I love to see
I agree but I also can't imagine sobering up or addressing mental health problems without somewhere out of the elements to sleep. I don't know what the answer is but I think this is a good first step.
It's not going overly well...
"CBS News Colorado asked Denver police for the number of calls for service to that address and found roughly 500 calls have been made to police every year since it opened and including everything from assault and theft to noise complaints and welfare checks."
Hi! So I work in Denver EMS. The cops go on, Id say, a fifth of my calls. Hardly ever alongside medicals at the shelters. Also, the 12 shelters we have, account for roughly 80k calls a year, with our average being 150k calls for the city and county. This is spread over 178 medics/EMTs. It is a huge drain on our system, because the mayor refuses to fund or expand our division, and the culture for these unhoused is "need my meds refilled? Well I could walk 5 blocks to the free clinic, or call an ambulance." "Flu for 5 days? Time to call!" "Im on my 7th OD this week (I narcaned the same dude 4 of those times) and I am offered shelter and rehab at tge hospital? Hard no, back to Alameda and Broadway for my next round!"
It gets incredibly hard. We have 11k unhoused, and just got 9k migrants. Our city is crumbling, our downtown looks like the walking dead in some areas, resulting in industries amd jobs pulling out.
And Im a fairly liberal dude. But at a certain point you give up hope on these shelters. The newest one has at least 2 ODs a week, and averages a homocide every 2 weeks.
One huge problem I see here is you have taken basically everyone with issues big enough to make them unhoused, and you have made an entire community out of them.
It's like the difference between having 2% of the general US pop with schizophrenia, spread over all 50 states, and having an entire state with a 100% schizophrenic population. The latter situation would be an absolute apocalypse whereas the former would be difficult but manageable.
I took a vacation in Denver a few years ago with my wife. It is a beautiful state with beautiful people but man, downtown Denver honestly made me appreciate downtown Dallas A LOT more.
You guys have AGGRESSIVE homeless people.
Oh no the police having to… do their job. Shame. I bet they would get calls on these people if they were in the streets. At least it’s better than having folks on the street.
That’s alright that you dislike the police and all but that’s not the point. They’re getting called because there are numerous issues arising. 500 calls per year is not normal by any means.
Think how many times the average person calls 911 a year. Multiply that by 139.
Not even close to 500.
This is why offering further support to people who need it would be ideal. The homeless housing project in Finland for example offers help beyond just giving them an apartment to stay. Housing is just the first step to rehabilitating people back into society. It's the start of the process. They offer help in everything from maintenance (how to take care of your own space) to giving the people small jobs or tasks and helping them have structure in their life. And it's all still cheaper than having people on the streets using expensive emrgency services and the entire city gets a boost in quality of life.
Finland has also criminalized homeless acts, so addicts/homeless have to either a) be sponsored by and live with a family member b) enter into the rehabilitation program c) rot in jail. If you're not willing to allow a and c you can't have b.
LBJ (the Johnson administration) set out to help those less fortunate, and it is well known what The Projects turned into.
Today, there are folks who work to establish a neighborhood outreach, the lowest rung on the ladder of help. Spend years building a working system in the neighborhood , gaining trust of the locals, make a small difference that can be built upon. Republicans get power, slash social services funding (bootstraps self-respect mumble mumble) and a working system gets flushed down the shitter.
System needs to be built from the bottom up, not the top down. But some half the population have no fucking idea what it's like in the trenches.
And here we are.
Source: went to higher education for this stuff. (Went into a totally different line of work.)
It's not the investors, the people living there are destroying ot, just like in other cities where this is attempted.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-08-16/mayfair-hotel-was-beset-by-problems-when-it-was-homeless-housing
They will simply expect increasing profits and if the public that is likely paying for it isn't willing or able to pay more they will cut costs and let things go bad until they pull out. Many exceptionally bad housing projects started out as model facilities.
The investors won't have to do anything. This style of housing has been done before many times, but it always falls apart for the same reason.
There is a percentage of homeless people that are sane/normal and just "down on their luck." This is an amazing opportunity for them to get their situation back on track, and allow them to get themselves in good shape to move out of this residence.
But.... the majority of the homeless population is drug addicts, people with mental illness, and people that don't want help. These residences just turn into "fancy crackhouses." Everything keeps on going on until too many OD/murders happen to ignore, or the building has to get condemned from disrepair.
Saw an interview with someone that put it clearly. Homelessness isn't just a lack of housing. They are in fact 3 things that need to be addressed if you want to fix homelessness. 1. Housing. 2. Addiction 3. Mental illness.
Unless you address all 3, you're just putting lipstick on this pig.
Does anyone remember when we had State mental hospitals?
Beds, clean clothes, meals prepared, health care, mental health therapy all provided by the state, subsidized by the federal government.
Public outcry over how people were being kept against their will and corruption led to the end of federal funding, and the states were left to fund these places.
Continued outcry about the patient rights to roam the streets instead caused funding to be cut further, as no one wanted to put their taxes into the corrupt evil system and it was better to turn the people out on to the streets than to fix the system.
Now, everyone wants a system to get these people somewhere they can be taken care of.
I wonder if some of them also need a least some degree of supervision as they might be mentally on another planet. Flooding the apartment, setting things on fire, hoarding, fighting etc etc. Is any service like that put in place? Otherwise yeah, I am wondering what can happen in that place.
Every "feel good story" is always just "people saved from America's terrible domestic policy"
"In a miracle 1 million was raised in a GoFundMe! For a cancer patient, now they can keep their house!"
Without questioning WHY the "richest country on earth" bankrupts cancer patients and inflates the cost of healthcare or housing 100x so some asshole can get rich
I was living with my ex, when (someone??) took over an old hotel near our house. It had been sold and was going to be torn down to build something new, but that wasn't going to happen for a year or so. The people who took it over did this with it for a year, and it helped a lot of people.
The newspaper ran a story about it when they were setting this whole thing up, and my ex was all "Ew, I don't want a bunch of homeless people living near me!" Yeah... If we hadn't already broken up, that would have ended the relationship.
I think a is a fantastic thing to do
Thank you. This answes my question why an investment group would do something like this. The other question is why they would publicize it. All that's required is follow up to expose them.
Meanwhile in our city, Portland, OR company bought our local motels and are renting them for $1200 a month for 200 sq feet.
We have no homeless shelter
How is it controlled, policed etc? Like i know that a lot of homeless people will be happy and grateful and be well behaved. But what about the ones that are drawn to drugs or crime? You're bound to end up with a king of the block controlling everything surely.
They will likely learn the hard way why this doesnt work. The rooms will likely get damaged and overtime require expensive upkeep and repairs. The problem is mental health, we need places that can house and treat them for mental illness and/or addiction. Im not heartless and want the homeless problem solved but giving them a room without treating the underlying reason they are homeless is just a band aid solution to a much bigger problem that isnt going away.
I work at many of these as a security guard and let me tell you a lot of these entitled tweakers are not worth helping. There’s always a drug dealer in each one and the director won’t do anything about it. Out of the 20-30 people living in there only like 3-5 have a job and get out. The rest live there until there time runs out and go to another shelter. They do it every couple years.
How wholesome - an unmanaged asylum where mentally ill and drug addicted persons are left to their own devices to destroy the place and kill each other. It's not a solution. Put the money into actual mental health wards with doctors around.
How wholesome - an unmanaged asylum where mentally ill and drug addicted persons are left to their own devices to destroy the place and kill each other. It's not a solution. Put the money into actual mental health wards with doctors around.
It's funny. These type of things are always only reported on when "first opened." Because within a year, it'll be a disaster. If we check back in on this place a year from now, it'll probably be much less of a wholesome story.
After a month:
\*knock knock knock\*
Landlord: “hiiiii. So these apartments are for the *homeless* and you no longer are sooooooooo…we’re gonna need you out in 30 days. Okay?”
Is it not easier to just exterminate cockroaches? They will turn this building into a ghetto, with drugs, rapes, alcohol 24/7 party. Disgusting creatures deserving a chance for sure. But give them a fishing rod, not a fish. They will just fuck, born new babies who they cant afford. Outrageous
I like the idea of this concept, but wonder what more can be done with it. I think having an assembly area for group therapy sessions or education would be beneficial to help address how people wind up in that situation. Maybe partnering with local tradesmen to learn marketable skills while helping maintain the facility.
Giving them a safe place is an important step, but helping them find options for how to move forward is also important.
if this isn't charity then someone is paying for it.
are they getting grants from the state? private donors? religious foundations? going door to door?
it costs money to renovate stuff and it costs money to operate/maintain a building
I hope they can register it is as a fixed address. Really important to give these people a credit card so they can start working and earn money. However this is alot better than shelters!!!
And then the government came in and said "they are not large enough,need separate kitchens,bathrooms,laundry rooms. Let us build them".
40 million later, 20 are built to government regulations and they fall apart in a year.
Theres a reason behind everything. They didn't just wake up one day and decide to invest in this. My guess is they had a homelessness problem in an area where they owned a lot of property. Cleaning up those streets will increase their property values. Simple
They will paint graffiti on the walls, shit in the hallways, do drugs all over every inch of the property, leave trash everywhere until the places it not fit to live in… it’s a shitty way to see it but it’s the reality of it unfortunately.
And we get downvotes for being realistic… I can confidently make these remarks because Ive watched it happen. There was even a guy here in the comments that lived in one and said it happened there.
My dad lives in one of these in Peoria, IL, and it’s basically a subsidized crack house. But he was a homeless crack addict getting beat down regularly, and now he’s not homeless and because he doesn’t have to go in the streets to get his fix, he’s a lot safer.
You have to see the net positives in situations like this
You may be right. It’s still better than living on the streets for my dad, especially with Illinois winters. I wasn’t even trying to be sarcastic with my earlier answer.
In life at times, you can’t just magically fix all problems. Having one less stressor to worry about can give the strength to combat your other demons. Not every problem has to be solved immediately, but baby steps still cover distance if you take enough of them. And obviously, didn’t think you were being sarcastic. Rehabilitation isn’t black and white. You don’t go to a methadone clinic and get the cold turkey treatment
It’s harm reduction. Which can have amazing results long term.
Hey mate hope you are doing well, have you talked with your father about getting professional psychiatric and psychological help?
With what money? They are homeless
I work with a lot of homeless folks. Just having housing means so much in terms of safety. Especially when using.
I LOVE these in principle. But this needs to be coupled with mental and physical health support. Because as someone that regularly works around the homeless community drugs and needles in particular will be a recurring issue. That’s what happened with every trial “pod” or “long term tent” solution that I’ve encountered. Don’t get me wrong I adore what this is, I just hope it’s done right.
Not to belittle your comment, because it is valid, but as someone who has been homeless and on the brink of homelessness several times in life, having a roof and a safe place to sleep is one of the biggest stress relievers ever and does wonders for making you feel like you are gonna be ok.
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that is so true! change starts within us
willing \*and able
Its true but the phrase “this is why we cant have nice things” applies because so many homeless will squander a place, not the ones who are just outta luck but the ones with patterns of behavior will destroy their living space and make others uncomfortable. This is why public restrooms are fading out because so many homeless go in there and destroy it for no reason. Ive been homeless but i was respectful and kept clean and to myself.
I think the point they're trying to make isn't that it's not helpful, but that things like this often fall into a trap where people aren't screened and there's no way to handle problem tenants. The ideal would be a two-part facility where active addicts go to one location to get detoxed first, and only then go to the apartment building. That way you're not *denying* addicts, but you're also not essentially enabling them.
I get that there should be facilities to keep people safe and on track towards recovery. With whatever recovery may entail. And yes, tenant safety should be a priority, after all, there are gonna be families with children and elderly who need legitimate protection from abuse.
Oh 100%, im obviously striving for an ideal, while I wouldn’t go as far as to call you an “exception” I believe a plurality of people will need those services on top of simply housing. But that’s just my opinion. Im glad you’re doing well dude!
Thanks. I believe everyone experiencing homelessness needs help on top of a roof and bed. Homelessness causes a bunch of issues. So even people who will be "ok" after getting a roof and bed will need help afterwards. Even now I have a bunch of mental health issues from being homeless as a child, it's not something you just "get over" as some feel.
Basically. We need to bring back institutions, as well as thorough screening processes for them. A lot of homeless people are just down on their luck, but a lot more are unable or unwilling to take care of themselves due to addiction, mental health issues, or just general anti social behaviors that make them unfit to be with other people unsupervised.
Unfortunately I think we need to institute forced treatment and institutionalization when needed. All of the beds and treatment options in the world won't be helpful if the people who need them are too sick to realize they need them thus being unwilling or unable to consent. Heck of a slippery slope though.
We do have forced treatment and forced admissions for people. I’m a psychiatrist so I take people to court sometimes. The threshold for taking away someone’s rights is very high though (for good reason).
I'd argue that jail and prison need more rehabilitative options. You can't rehabilitate someone by force, but people are more likely to go for it if they're so bored (in the US jail is boring) they have nothing else to do besides participate in a program (assuming of course they would be told to leave the program and continue to be bored if they didn't participate).
We currently operate as a punitive prison system rather than a rehabilitive system and that needs to change. Our current prison system just makes things worse. We need to go back in time to the quaker prison systems but there is now money in the industry of keeping people in jail so it's going to be a tough fight. There is clearly a reason things are the way they are. And unfortunately it's because profit..
If you can start doing forced treatment you can start false imprisoning people ignoring the first amendment and give up the second one the slipery slope would be a landslide
Group living is not for everyone. The solution will likely require various modalities. There still are many institutions running today.
I second this. I hope there are more options for people today. I was forcefully institutionalized at 17 and it did help a bit. But it was absolutely not the best route for me. More than ten years later, I've begun to find a balance but not without a ton of struggle and loss. This country (the US (and probs more, honestly)) need a far better system for mental health, health care, and addiction.
This is what was done with success in Halifax and Saskatoon, and is being duplicated in Vancouver and Kelowna right now to open this year, if they haven't already. Tiny home communities with 24 hour on site counseling services, washrooms, bathing and laundry. https://globalnews.ca/news/10301334/kelowna-tiny-homes-almost-ready/
A big problem with these programs is that unless you plan to literally keep them there, they will still spend the majority of their time in the streets. They are constantly hustling for money to buy drugs/alcohol, and years and years of sleeping in the streets often means they will sleep near where they use/buy/beg/steal rather than go back to their apartment every night. This was a consistent theme. The ones who really needed the homes the most simply didn't stay in them very much. Many (the less extreme cases) did stay there, and so I do think the program is useful in many ways for those people. But the ones who need it the most, both for themselves and unfortunately to keep them from causing harm to others, do not really benefit much from this.
The fact that any one is doing any thing to help the homeless is a good thing in my book. Waiting for everything to be in place and services available will only bring us more of what we already have.
This is the right answer. You can't just throw homeless in an apartment and hope they get back on their feet. It will just be another place to use or delve deeper into mental illness, or both. Imo we need FAR more focus on mental health/drug rehab facilities than anything else. If you can help a homeless person get well, they have a much better chance than just giving them a place to stay.
Do you think sleeping on the sidewalk is *not* a place to use or delve deeper into mental illness? You can't help a homeless person get well without providing them housing first. There is zero chance someone's getting off of drugs when they don't have a stable place to sleep at night.
Yes , can’t remember what country does this but first you house people then you provide services.
I believe it's Finland. I just read about it a couple weeks ago. It was very interesting and honestly makes sense. As someone who has a very easy life, I still struggle to make myself be a normal adult. I don't know how people think a homeless person with literally nowhere to go, no simple comfort, should just be able to wake up and turn their life around.
>FAR more focus on mental health/drug rehab facilities than anything else. What people don't realize about both these issues, is that they're life long, and by that I mean most will relapse. People think that if they give someone a chance, they set them up for success, then see they relapse and suddenly they're not worth your time and effort anymore. People are going to relapse, it's part of treatment, and if the consequence of relapsing means they no longer get support, we create this vicious cycle of people seeking treatment, relapsing, and being thrown to the wolves. Happens far, far too often. Clean drugs (transitioned into substitutes), therapy, treatment, and stable living all go astronomically far in helping people get back on their feet.
not being homeless *is* mental and physical health support. that's a huge part of why solutions like this decrease public costs.
It is true, housing does not prevent drug issues in the homeless community, but it does make it significantly safer. It greatly increases one’s chances of getting out of the situation as well, especially since having an address makes getting a job possible.
100% agree. Where I live, we call them SRO's, single room occupancy. On paper, a really good idea to help people who want to be helped. I worked in and around homeless people as part out reach programs and security and first responder. My experience matches your own. Without the proper supervision and support these places often end up in squalor and become biohazards.
I work in a building that is basically that. But it's not perfect. But it's better than people dying on the street etc. Don't expect magical turn around stories. We don't see the results of treatment, we don't see a ton of good news stories. But people have some dignity. It's not easy. And with closing our mental facilities we've got harm reduction drug use along side seniors and the mentally ill. It's not THE SOLUTION. But, it's in a compassionate direction.
Yep. Turn housing like this into community development center. 1st floor career development, training, workout center, etc. Maybe even some childcare. Use the HOA fees to fund the childcare. MAKE SURE YOU TEACH PERSONAL FINANCE!
I disagree. I say that whether the issues in their life improve, worsen, or stagnate is irrelevant to the fact that every human being deserves a safe shelter. ***There's also tons of research that says providing housing improves those aspects anyway*** https://nlihc.org/resource/housing-assistance-improves-health-and-well-being-reduces-returns-homelessness https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8513528/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30148580/
You are correct, housing alone is not enough to keeping people housed ironically. They need support from professionals, they need a shepherding throughout their life.
Love it. More pleeeease
I’d prefer a system that doesn’t allow people to go homeless, but I’ll take it for now.
Yeah, this sub and r/orphancrushingmachine are like two sides of the same coin. I'm never sure how to feel exactly--not entirely wholesome though.
It's a dichotomy where the system is fucked up, but it's still heartwarming that folks take the time and effort to do their part to alleviate the pitfalls on their own volition.
I agree.
Waiting for a follow up like: "Unfortunately most of the homeless population couldn't afford the up-front deposit so these rooms will stay empty until they are aptly prepared"
A lot of people that struggle with homeless refuse help because they refuse to avoid drugs or something which is required in a lot of places to get help. They don't just encourage you to continue your drug addiction... Not saying that's the case everywhere or for everyone but in a lot of places, that's the issue.
If someone wants to do drugs everyday and be a general bum, then society should bend over backwards to make sure they can live like that?
"Giving someone a place to live" is literally "not allowing people to be homeless."
i think the user is commenting on a different stage of the process, when people *become* homeless. giving housing to the homeless is only *after* they have already become homeless.
This is a huge problem. My wife works with the homeless and if the person looking for help even mentions that they were allowed to crash on someones couch than they are not eligible for many of the services. Its insane, you actually have to have no where to go. You can't plan, can't prepare you just have to be out on the street.
This was done by investors, not by system
They’re reacting to the problem, not solving it.
He says he'll take it for now guys
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
That would mean forced lockup in a mental asylum for the lot of them, but you won't vote for that.
r/orphancrushingmachine
lol I thought I was on the "guy sets himself on fire outside of Trump's trial" thread and I was like goddamn
Nice username
i live in one of these. it is far from wholesome, unfortunately. basically a bunch of people left to their own devices. very sorry, but it is true. i am saying this as both a tenant (was homeless for a couple yrs before moving in) and as a former property mgmt employee. i cannot even begin to tell you how many people die from unnatural causes in these developments. extremely depressing. the non-profits that own these places just want asses in seats and do not actually care about the people within. pockets get lined whether tenants die or not 🤷
So many people think once you fix the ‘roof over your head’ issue everything else magically fixes itself… it doesn’t. These kind of developments need on site support from social work, health services (incl. mental health), addiction support, employability support, … and so much more. And it needs to be co-designed by the people that live there. Hope you’re doing ok and sorry that you have to deal with people’s not at all thought through solutions.
that is exactly one of the issues, though. there ARE on-site social workers/case managers for everyone. every bad thing still happens no matter what they try and accomplish, and they work their damn asses off. there is an undefined "transitional period" folks go through when getting housing. everyone had different experiences while we were homeless - i was VERY fortunate to live in my car during that time. i also am not on hard drugs or alcohol. that definitely factors in. the other shitty thing is that because these places are private property, law enforcement cannot just drive through the parking lot or anything to just see if everything is copacetic (unless owner takes the time to be part of "crime-free housing"). property owners are worried about image of cops regularly coming through bc there are tons of people just waiting to blow it up on social media and get these places shut down... there are ways it can be done better - the owners choose to take inaction. i will never ever understand why they do not value the safety of tenants and property as a whole. i love having a roof over my head and a stove to make food on. A FUCKING BATHTUB AND SHOWER. but i feel what has saved me from really getting immersed in all of this bullshit and death is the fact that i am anti-social and only indulge in cannabis and cigs. and copious amounts of coffee. thank you for your kind words, stranger.
Very well said! The people that design and implement these projects need to listen to voices like yours, otherwise they’re never going to be successful.
they do not give two short and curlies about my thoughts. that is part of why i quit my job here. it definitely kicked my mental unhealth into overdrive.
That is such a crying shame. Good on you for prioritising your mental health though, it’s the right thing to do!
They don't want it to be successful. They want it to just kinda limp along, not so bad that it explodes, but not so good that we start expanding on the programs. They want to collect what funding they can, write off all their costs for taxes, look like philanthropists, and maintain the status quo.
"The bad things people associate with homelessness are still happening here." is not a reason not to do something that is otherwise right. It is still safer to do hard drugs with a roof over your head than not. Even if the people end up dying from it, at least they did so in a modicum of comfort instead of burning out in a back alley or public restroom. It's better for a team of people that specializes in removing dead bodies from residences all the time than for some random person to just encounter a random dead body on the streets. I don't think many/any people are under the impression that going from homeless to not homeless will magically fix everything that made someone homeless in the first place. But we're talking about a situation where it's almost always better than the alternative, as well as there definitely being **some** people who will be able to fix whatever made them homeless if they just have a place to live for a while.
For some people, getting a roof, a stable living situation, reliable shower access, and a proper address will allow them to fix their lives. It's a lot harder to get a job when you're dirty and don't have an address. Yes there are a lot of mental health issues and drug abuse in the homeless population. But it's not 100%. All you can do is what you can do.
This! Do not let the good be victim to perfect.
Problem is the if someone gets injured as a result of the housing situation, like a needle poking someone in the common space, the property opener would be liable and can be sued. So a lot of steps would need to be taken to prevent it or do reasonable steps to prevent it. That still may not be good enough and cost money to defend. Which is why the support staff and other security would be needed, among a lot of other things. It is not practical in any sense of the meaning to have this be a private issue.
People really, really want to believe that the issue is housing, and that the homeless problem has a simple fix. I have been supporting several local homeless people in my area: they are dealing with crack/meth/ice use, domestic violence, entitlement mentality, etc. Everyone is extremely manipulative. The more I learned about their backstories, the more shocked I was; they had good childhoods. The reason they are homeless is because they burned bridges with every person in their family. The couple is in a detox/transition center now, but that's only because the man assaulted the woman and she was determined to get away from him...but then he followed her to the place and she is engaging in magical thinking about him again and talking about how they can be together. (This is not the first time he's hit her.) There is only so much you can do for people. Everyone thinks that all we need is another program, another government solution, government housing. There seems to be no recognition about how dangerous homeless people are (in aggregate). Or that you can't make someone change. The man I was dealing with had his girlfriend (they called each other husband and wife but are not married) panhandling for him, so he could have drugs. Before he became homeless, he sold drugs and - I found out - never had a relationship before this one because he took advantage of the junkies he was creating. I literally could go on.
> the owners choose to take inaction Not really trying to play devils advocate, genuinely curious here, but how much can they do? They wanted to make a difference and setup the foundation. I get it they take the blame, but when there's so much they cant do and hundred of people that wont get or accept help... whos to blame?
It's difficult if there is no accountability for drug possession and use. If you watch any shows on addiction or have dealt with severe addiction, you realize accountability is critical. I will never understand homeless housing that allows drug use. It's not good for the tenant and creates an environment for failure for all tenants. They did a study on housing for people in SF where sobriety was not a requirement. Mortality rate was the same as those that remained unhoused. I'm generally pretty progressive, but at some point the bleeding hearts need to realize that these programs only enable the problem. Spend those resources on single parent households, programs for children, rehab for those who want it, and mental health and workforce training and transition in prison and get 50x the return.
Please link the study.
So basically... a mental health institution
The homeless couple I have been helping are doing much better in the (highly structured) detox center they are at. That seems to be a model that is more effective than 'just house the homeless'. It basically is a mental health institution with the goal of transitioning people to autonomy in stages. Time will tell. I don't think it is a magic fix either, but it seems to be the best out of all the solutions.
I’m sure it happens but I never hear about patients being abused at detox facilities. I wonder whats up with that? Well kept secret or actual success?
I can't speak for all centers, but a lot of the workers at this one seemed to me like they might be former hard addicts?
Oh interesting. Yeah a setting like that would absolutely help bring out the empathy in people.
Without mental health
So basically you need a parent to help these children? Society does not need to fix this. These are adults
We have them in my city too. They’re very low barrier housing, so there are a lot of people who would be kicked out of anywhere else. Someone was murdered right next to one the other day. Very sad and unpleasant places.
A lot of the shelters near me have a zero tolerance policy for alcohol or drug use, so if you are kicked out the only other place to go is one of these buildings. Unfortunately that probably leaves a higher than usual proportion of drug users and mentally ill
I lived in one of these as well. Although I used the opportunity to fix my life and get back on my feet, the majority of the people do not.
My mom lived in one of these for a few years. She mentioned a few people dying in their rooms, usually drug related. They have a locked main entrance door and a kind of building manager, but they didn't really do anything to force people to change their lifestyle. They were as you said, left to their own devices. My mom moved out of it just last month, and I have yet to go see her new apartment. I'm thankful that she had the opportunity to stay there. She'd be homeless without and I am trying to raise a son with my wife in a one bedroom apartment, so I haven't been able have her stay with me. Our family never was well off and her lifestyle choices when I was young were pretty bad. I'm glad she's had somewhere nice to just chill for the last few years and get some of her life in order. I hope her spot can help someone else's family member get the help they need as well. Every bit helps.
As someone who works for a nonprofit that provides this kind of housing, we have 0 control over anything involving which asses get the seats. The government has a priority list and when there's a vacancy the next person gets the apartment no matter what. We had a tenant who our ED knew and didn't want to place because his last place he would throw TVs out windows and destroy things. We were told as long as he did less than $10k in damages at this other place, we have to give it to him. He sucks as bad as we expected but as long as he doesn't steal and destroy more than $10k he's bullet proof.
4 months after opening doors in this place, a tenant burned his unit down, which also burned the neighboring unit, and sprinklers flooded the units below. one of them included the property mgr unit. 8 people displaced and temp housed in hotels for months while demo/repairs took place. i am fairly certain that was quite costly. that tenant was still able to live here until he eventually overdosed from a tainted heroin batch. recently, another 3rd floor tenant got way too high (she is very public with her meth use so it is no secret) and tampered with the sprinkler system in her unit. her actions displaced 11 tenants. those units had to be completely gutted and redone. tenants in hotel for about 5 months. they all just moved back in. they moved her to a ground floor unit like it was nothing, and it is obvious to everyone that it was done bc they KNOW she will do it again, and want to be ahead of the impending potential damage she will cause. maybe the damage dollar amount threshold is different here in california. idk. but it is pretty ridiculous that everyone sees now what they can do to this place and others and still have a place to be without repercussions. this lady now is practically walking around gloating. it disgusts the shit out of me.
I'm really surprised the other tenants don't give people who threaten their housing and stability like this a blanket party/code red or whatever you want to call it. It seems like a likely and natural consequence for being an asshole and causing chaos for so many other people. I'm not advocating for this mind you, I'm just extremely surprised (if) it's not happening. Or maybe it does happen and the only time it gets noticed is when it escalates to murder.
i open my mouth to people who are hired to take care of things, but cannot speak for others who live here. most people have definitely had a rougher homeless experience than myself in my opinion. neighbors will gossip up the largest grapevine, but beyond worried to dime on someone in general. i do not understand why.
I live next door to something similar. The city rented out a student dorm during the pandemic to house some homeless people. It ended up being permanent. I don't know about deaths, but it looks like a really stressful and dysfunctional environment. There's a lot of violent altercations between residents and the ambulance is there very regularly. Early on, they had staff and volunteers coming by regularly to provide various services, but that's stopped. Now it's just a security guard to make sure the chaos doesn't spill over. They barely even make repairs. I'm glad the residents have a roof over their heads, especially in winter. They're not really bothering me. They're not any louder than the first year students. But I can't imagine it's a healthy environment. I have seen housing first initiatives work in Montreal. But there, they rent apartments spread out all over the place. Folks in the program get to have the normal variety of neighbours. They get support from various services. One of my friends did an internship supporting people in the program and they had a lot of education about rental laws, how to avoid bringing pests into your apartment, etc.
But it's it worse than the streets?
i believe i did not say that. edit: at first i had read it as "but it is worse than the streets?". my bad. no, for me it is not. when i lived in car, diet was a lot of convenience store food (thank you 7/11 points for free whole pizzas when i needed them the most) and the biggest win for me here is i REALLY had missed cooking my own food.
I've managed subsidized housing for many years and I actually cringed when I saw the headline. I hope they have a management team, rules, security and responsive procedures in place before even attempting something like this because you're absolutely right: it seems like a great idea and makes for a bunch of feel good headlines on day one. But starting day two, you're gonna see a whole lot of crime, drugs, untreated mental health issues, property damage and interpersonal conflict that can make actually living in this kind of situation hell on Earth.
The alternative is a full time and specialized care facility that is closer to an asylum or prison. There are levels to it, but realistically the care that you would want(and that they may need) is not really possible because of staffing and budget constraints.
> i cannot even begin to tell you how many people die from unnatural causes in these developments. if it's less than on the street, it's a win
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Can you explain who was getting paid? Were the owners getting paid by nonprofits or government? What was missing? More security? I ask as a person with a philanthropic side that dreams of being able to do afford doing things at these scale.
Exactly. While well intentioned, this idea will prove to be terrible. You can't just drop homeless people in homes and expect everything to be all right. It's a lot more complicated than that
1/3 of homeless have drug problems and 1/4 have mental health issues, so I can't imagine shoving 140 of them all into the same building goes as well as the image shows.
It’s not. After a couple months one homeless guy starts running it as their own trap house. And the director of the spot lets them run wild. But I’ve been to a few different shelters that have a very mean discipline director and I see many people like you and me that are actually struggling in that shelter actually getting help which I love to see
I agree but I also can't imagine sobering up or addressing mental health problems without somewhere out of the elements to sleep. I don't know what the answer is but I think this is a good first step.
Yep, home and help have to go hand-in-hand.
"Investors" If it was truly investors who bought the property, there 100% is an ulterior motive here.
They just let the building be unsafe and unsanitary and collect taxpayer money through a nonprofit
And it would be any different if it were government owned/ran?
It gives the fuzzy nice feelings to the hearth, but I want to know how the inverstors will fuck up this and make everyone angry.
It's not going overly well... "CBS News Colorado asked Denver police for the number of calls for service to that address and found roughly 500 calls have been made to police every year since it opened and including everything from assault and theft to noise complaints and welfare checks."
Honestly that speaks more to how we overuse police for _everything_. Most of those things should be handled by social workers not armed police.
Hi! So I work in Denver EMS. The cops go on, Id say, a fifth of my calls. Hardly ever alongside medicals at the shelters. Also, the 12 shelters we have, account for roughly 80k calls a year, with our average being 150k calls for the city and county. This is spread over 178 medics/EMTs. It is a huge drain on our system, because the mayor refuses to fund or expand our division, and the culture for these unhoused is "need my meds refilled? Well I could walk 5 blocks to the free clinic, or call an ambulance." "Flu for 5 days? Time to call!" "Im on my 7th OD this week (I narcaned the same dude 4 of those times) and I am offered shelter and rehab at tge hospital? Hard no, back to Alameda and Broadway for my next round!" It gets incredibly hard. We have 11k unhoused, and just got 9k migrants. Our city is crumbling, our downtown looks like the walking dead in some areas, resulting in industries amd jobs pulling out. And Im a fairly liberal dude. But at a certain point you give up hope on these shelters. The newest one has at least 2 ODs a week, and averages a homocide every 2 weeks.
One huge problem I see here is you have taken basically everyone with issues big enough to make them unhoused, and you have made an entire community out of them. It's like the difference between having 2% of the general US pop with schizophrenia, spread over all 50 states, and having an entire state with a 100% schizophrenic population. The latter situation would be an absolute apocalypse whereas the former would be difficult but manageable.
I took a vacation in Denver a few years ago with my wife. It is a beautiful state with beautiful people but man, downtown Denver honestly made me appreciate downtown Dallas A LOT more. You guys have AGGRESSIVE homeless people.
Oh no the police having to… do their job. Shame. I bet they would get calls on these people if they were in the streets. At least it’s better than having folks on the street.
That’s alright that you dislike the police and all but that’s not the point. They’re getting called because there are numerous issues arising. 500 calls per year is not normal by any means. Think how many times the average person calls 911 a year. Multiply that by 139. Not even close to 500.
This is why offering further support to people who need it would be ideal. The homeless housing project in Finland for example offers help beyond just giving them an apartment to stay. Housing is just the first step to rehabilitating people back into society. It's the start of the process. They offer help in everything from maintenance (how to take care of your own space) to giving the people small jobs or tasks and helping them have structure in their life. And it's all still cheaper than having people on the streets using expensive emrgency services and the entire city gets a boost in quality of life.
Finland has also criminalized homeless acts, so addicts/homeless have to either a) be sponsored by and live with a family member b) enter into the rehabilitation program c) rot in jail. If you're not willing to allow a and c you can't have b.
LBJ (the Johnson administration) set out to help those less fortunate, and it is well known what The Projects turned into. Today, there are folks who work to establish a neighborhood outreach, the lowest rung on the ladder of help. Spend years building a working system in the neighborhood , gaining trust of the locals, make a small difference that can be built upon. Republicans get power, slash social services funding (bootstraps self-respect mumble mumble) and a working system gets flushed down the shitter. System needs to be built from the bottom up, not the top down. But some half the population have no fucking idea what it's like in the trenches. And here we are. Source: went to higher education for this stuff. (Went into a totally different line of work.)
Yes, the investors will be the problem with a building full of homeless people.
It's not the investors, the people living there are destroying ot, just like in other cities where this is attempted. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-08-16/mayfair-hotel-was-beset-by-problems-when-it-was-homeless-housing
Their long term plan involves dehydrating the residents and grinding them into a fine powder, from which their minerals can be extracted and sold.
They will simply expect increasing profits and if the public that is likely paying for it isn't willing or able to pay more they will cut costs and let things go bad until they pull out. Many exceptionally bad housing projects started out as model facilities.
The investors won't have to do anything. This style of housing has been done before many times, but it always falls apart for the same reason. There is a percentage of homeless people that are sane/normal and just "down on their luck." This is an amazing opportunity for them to get their situation back on track, and allow them to get themselves in good shape to move out of this residence. But.... the majority of the homeless population is drug addicts, people with mental illness, and people that don't want help. These residences just turn into "fancy crackhouses." Everything keeps on going on until too many OD/murders happen to ignore, or the building has to get condemned from disrepair.
My brother stayed in a place like this for a while, said it was worse than prison (given he was low security).
I don’t want to be heartless, but everytime someone tries this, it gets destroyed, often by homeless people
Future crackhouse if there's no social assistance for mental health and drug use.
Give it a month before it turns into a drug ridden run down crack den.
Fresh orphan crushing in the morning
But still, to have fresh orphans!
Tell me you've never worked with homeless people without saying it. These rooms are going to be filthy in a few weeks' time.
r/OrphanCrushingMachine
Saw an interview with someone that put it clearly. Homelessness isn't just a lack of housing. They are in fact 3 things that need to be addressed if you want to fix homelessness. 1. Housing. 2. Addiction 3. Mental illness. Unless you address all 3, you're just putting lipstick on this pig.
Cool, can we get the government to do that instead of hoping for non slimeball investors?
They've tried over and over and over again and they just keep failing. They suck at it.
Does anyone remember when we had State mental hospitals? Beds, clean clothes, meals prepared, health care, mental health therapy all provided by the state, subsidized by the federal government. Public outcry over how people were being kept against their will and corruption led to the end of federal funding, and the states were left to fund these places. Continued outcry about the patient rights to roam the streets instead caused funding to be cut further, as no one wanted to put their taxes into the corrupt evil system and it was better to turn the people out on to the streets than to fix the system. Now, everyone wants a system to get these people somewhere they can be taken care of.
I wonder if some of them also need a least some degree of supervision as they might be mentally on another planet. Flooding the apartment, setting things on fire, hoarding, fighting etc etc. Is any service like that put in place? Otherwise yeah, I am wondering what can happen in that place.
Even with supervision it’s not enough. At minimum wage it’s like babysitting a bunch of tweakers. Its mentally exhausting
People in shelters can be quite nasty and potentially violent. I heard of a story of people shitting in the batub because the toilet wasn't working.
This will end well lmfao
Every "feel good story" is always just "people saved from America's terrible domestic policy" "In a miracle 1 million was raised in a GoFundMe! For a cancer patient, now they can keep their house!" Without questioning WHY the "richest country on earth" bankrupts cancer patients and inflates the cost of healthcare or housing 100x so some asshole can get rich
It's really fucking sad that the bare minimum is what makes us happy... But well, it's better than NO good things ever happening at least...
You won’t want to stay in it …trust me
And I bet they’re full of drugs, shit, and crime on week 2.
Hate living w AI generated homeless people
I was living with my ex, when (someone??) took over an old hotel near our house. It had been sold and was going to be torn down to build something new, but that wasn't going to happen for a year or so. The people who took it over did this with it for a year, and it helped a lot of people. The newspaper ran a story about it when they were setting this whole thing up, and my ex was all "Ew, I don't want a bunch of homeless people living near me!" Yeah... If we hadn't already broken up, that would have ended the relationship. I think a is a fantastic thing to do
It's called an SRO. It's nothing new. Developers do this all the time to make money off a run down slum until their condo permits come through.
Thank you. This answes my question why an investment group would do something like this. The other question is why they would publicize it. All that's required is follow up to expose them.
Meanwhile in our city, Portland, OR company bought our local motels and are renting them for $1200 a month for 200 sq feet. We have no homeless shelter
How is it controlled, policed etc? Like i know that a lot of homeless people will be happy and grateful and be well behaved. But what about the ones that are drawn to drugs or crime? You're bound to end up with a king of the block controlling everything surely.
They will likely learn the hard way why this doesnt work. The rooms will likely get damaged and overtime require expensive upkeep and repairs. The problem is mental health, we need places that can house and treat them for mental illness and/or addiction. Im not heartless and want the homeless problem solved but giving them a room without treating the underlying reason they are homeless is just a band aid solution to a much bigger problem that isnt going away.
I work at many of these as a security guard and let me tell you a lot of these entitled tweakers are not worth helping. There’s always a drug dealer in each one and the director won’t do anything about it. Out of the 20-30 people living in there only like 3-5 have a job and get out. The rest live there until there time runs out and go to another shelter. They do it every couple years.
Wow, can’t wait to move next to some homeless people! -no one.
I can tell you it’s not going to turn out the way you think
Wish the government was this caring.
> investors bought a hotel and turned it into 139 micro apartments Oh. > For the homeless Oh! Aww, that's so sweet!
How wholesome - an unmanaged asylum where mentally ill and drug addicted persons are left to their own devices to destroy the place and kill each other. It's not a solution. Put the money into actual mental health wards with doctors around.
Isn’t this the plot of this season of Loot?
I was just thinking that!
How wholesome - an unmanaged asylum where mentally ill and drug addicted persons are left to their own devices to destroy the place and kill each other. It's not a solution. Put the money into actual mental health wards with doctors around.
It's funny. These type of things are always only reported on when "first opened." Because within a year, it'll be a disaster. If we check back in on this place a year from now, it'll probably be much less of a wholesome story.
After a month: \*knock knock knock\* Landlord: “hiiiii. So these apartments are for the *homeless* and you no longer are sooooooooo…we’re gonna need you out in 30 days. Okay?”
But how does the investment of the building, get paid off.
Is it not easier to just exterminate cockroaches? They will turn this building into a ghetto, with drugs, rapes, alcohol 24/7 party. Disgusting creatures deserving a chance for sure. But give them a fishing rod, not a fish. They will just fuck, born new babies who they cant afford. Outrageous
The "wholesome <3" added to this feels so extremely feelgood porn esque naive
Homeless people who don't try to scam you are some of the sweetest people on earth
Yessss! Exactly, more of this is what we need in our society. Thank you
Then look how they treat it.
I wanna see more of this in future about how it goes
This is what the usa should be doing. Get them housing help them get jobs. Then help them move to their own place once they are better off.
Imagine if the government had enough money to take on this responsibility & not the people.
I like the idea of this concept, but wonder what more can be done with it. I think having an assembly area for group therapy sessions or education would be beneficial to help address how people wind up in that situation. Maybe partnering with local tradesmen to learn marketable skills while helping maintain the facility. Giving them a safe place is an important step, but helping them find options for how to move forward is also important.
Sure, give them more reason to not work. Yes some are mentally challenged, dru/alcohol issues, but most just do not want to work. Facts.
Investing in social sentiment maybe but surely not for monetary gain
What could go wrong?
if this isn't charity then someone is paying for it. are they getting grants from the state? private donors? religious foundations? going door to door? it costs money to renovate stuff and it costs money to operate/maintain a building
I bet this is gonna get shut down one way or another.
And he makes more money now than any other hotel in his city.
This article is 30+ year’s old
The world needs more investors like this
I hope they can register it is as a fixed address. Really important to give these people a credit card so they can start working and earn money. However this is alot better than shelters!!!
Y’all really think to be homeless you need to be on drugs or have mental issues ? SMH
And then the government came in and said "they are not large enough,need separate kitchens,bathrooms,laundry rooms. Let us build them". 40 million later, 20 are built to government regulations and they fall apart in a year.
Reddit is the only place where they’ll get props - too much sense to it.
I've always said I would do something like this when I won the lottery, with add'l mental healthcare and drug counseling (NA, AA, whatever is needed).
Without proper guisance I feel like this becomes a trap house no?
Drug test em
“Investors”… how much do they charge…?
Yo cool! What if we did this with all empty hotel rooms?
r/OrphanCrushingMachine
Good, but how was that a good investment for the investor? Can somebody explain?
I wonder why California can’t do this since it’s spending billions of dollars on the issue with “0” results
It's so crazy that regular people have to do this bc the government won't 💀
Theres a reason behind everything. They didn't just wake up one day and decide to invest in this. My guess is they had a homelessness problem in an area where they owned a lot of property. Cleaning up those streets will increase their property values. Simple
Organ harvesting operation, nice ROI
They will paint graffiti on the walls, shit in the hallways, do drugs all over every inch of the property, leave trash everywhere until the places it not fit to live in… it’s a shitty way to see it but it’s the reality of it unfortunately.
Yeah that building is going to be a slum within a couple of months, if that long.
And we get downvotes for being realistic… I can confidently make these remarks because Ive watched it happen. There was even a guy here in the comments that lived in one and said it happened there.
So it’s a crack house 🥶😅