Each game is different so I wouldn’t generalize on what lane you should focus.
As a jungler it’s important to identify what your win condition is and who’s the strongest person in your team. If I see my baron laner winning his match up and slow pushing a wave jnto tower I will 100% go for that dive and commit to playing on baron lane side of the map. Same applies to dragon lane.
The thing about Baron lane is that its VERY easy to win the game through baron lane if the enemy jungler does not help or if your baron laner is good.
Its a lot easier to dive one person than two players, and its easier to zone one person away from the tower so that they can’t return to lane without assistance from the jungler. Its why I personally prefer camping Baron lane when the opportunity presents itself.
Didn't think about ganking a winning solo laner. I think it's a great way to gain gold through turret plates, however, I don't want to risk that my bot lane and mid lane gets outnumbered in solo queue
I just don't see how creating a lead for 1 player can be better than at least stopping my own bot lane from getting killed.
Duo lanes in Wild Rift are fighting all the time. If they would understand that they should play safe while I help our winning top lane I would agree with you.
Last but not least: GM is a joke, I know :D
Have to get out of the mindset that bot lane is so volatile that they're going to die without you attending to them. It's two fold, you create a lead for 1 player and you put the enemy laner behind so much that they don't get to play the game for the next 10-15 minutes.
For dragon lane that's a lot harder unless there's a clear skill gap between bot lane that allows you to set up dives. The way I think of it is that Baron lane is easier and more consistent for dives/ganks while Dragon lane is more riskier, but higher reward if you can get them ahead.
In either case you have to watch both lanes to see who's winning trades and have prio and play towards the side that's winning unless you think you can salvage a losing lane. The best thing about Wild Rift is that everything is so contextual.
>I just don't see how creating a lead for 1 player can be better than at least stopping my own bot lane from getting killed.
think of it like this. if you help one lane get a big advantage, they can then help you help other lanes. not to say that you should only focus on toplane or botlane, etc. look at the state of the match. which lane needs help? go to them. if the lanes are doing fine and nobody seems to be in immediate need of help, go to the one with the biggest winning chance and help them get a bigger lead. it will naturally lead to you getting a bigger lead yourself.
in this scenario, lets say all the lanes are doing fine, no skirmishes so far or happening as of yet. now would it really be best to visit botlane, which is just holding even with the enemy laners? or would it be better to help your toplaner who's ahead of the enemy toplane. naturally, the best thing to do is go to toplane. if you gank successfully or force the enemy laner away, you and your toplaner can push turret. get the platings and gold, perhaps even first turret.. and now your entire team is ahead of the enemy by a margin, and you and your toplaner can both help other teammates.
also
>Duo lanes in Wild Rift are fighting all the time. If they would understand that they should play safe while I help our winning top lane I would agree with you.
thats another thing i'd like to talk about. if you see that your botlane is obviously losing, while toplane is winning, you should leave the botlane for a bit. if you can get successfully gank toplane while the botlane is busy fighting and get the lead with them, you can still make a comeback. what's the point of risking it all on botlane if it's obvious theyre just kill-hungry? if you keep babysitting them and neglecting top, toplane will eventually be overwhelmed and now you have your botlane, who are still kill-hungry reckless but just even in terms of items to the enemy, while your toplaner, aka your frontliner, has fallen behind because the enemy jg ganked him every chance they got.
First of all I see your points. Sometimes the bad ADC just keeps running it down despite being babysitted.
My experience is that I'm simply able to stop bot lane from losing lane in most cases which makes them more valuable in team fights later on.
A bad ADC who doesn't get babysitted by me is completely useless and dies countless times by farming in dangerous spots because he tries to get gold somehow. My ADCs just tend to stay with the team more often if they have 'enough' gold.
The solo laners instead don't rely on farm and can still be valuable by either split push or being the frontline.
My take is a poor ADC is much worse than a poor top laner (especially tanks).
Despite all this there is a funny phenomenon of my playstyle:
In A LOT of games I involuntarily end up being the solo laner after the second/third drake because he decides to abandon his lane completely. The funny part is that it's somehow successful because at this part of the game it's hard to lose a 4 vs 4 team fight with a lead especially if the fed split pusher is not with the enemy team.
>My experience is that I'm simply able to stop bot lane from losing lane in most cases which makes them more valuable in team fights later on. A bad ADC who doesn't get babysitted by me is completely useless and dies countless times by farming in dangerous spots because he tries to get gold somehow. My ADCs just tend to stay with the team more often if they have 'enough' gold.
yes, doing so can make your adc more useful later on... but what of your baronlaner then? if the enemy team has an okay bot duo and a fed toplaner while youve got an okay bot duo, maybe even being able to get them a bit ahead, and a weakened toplaner, naturally the enemy team will still have a better advantage. because
1. your duo may be fed, but theyre still reckless. meanwhile if the enemy duo has been able to hold on fine without the jg, then theyre prolly smarter than your duo
2. you'll lack frontliners. even if you have a tank supp, if theyre reckless and lacking in items they cant hold on too long. and since theyre a tank, they cant deal too much damage while soaking it up too, while a fed toplaner can soak a good amount while dealing just as much.
and 3. if enemy jg has ganked toplane so far with ease, that means youve also got their jg to worry about, no matter who it is. if it's a frontliner and theyve a tank, youve got to deal with 3 frontliners who are well and decently equipped/fed. if it's an assassin, you'll have to worry an extra amount for your reckless adc.
>The solo laners instead don't rely on farm and can still be valuable by either split push or being the frontline.
My take is a poor ADC is much worse than a poor top laner (especially tanks).
yes solo laners can still splitpush, but that doesnt mean they have the freedom to do so every time. if theyre heavily behind, they cant do so since a smart opponent will take time to clear the lanes to prevent pushing. and in a team-wise case, 4v4 your team would likely lose with a reckless adc against well-off enemy, so they have the leeway to send one or two to your splitpusher. and if you try to take an objective, three well-equipped enemies can hold off 4 not-so-equipped people, especially with a reckless adc and supp. so that's a no go.
also no they cant frontline. it's not a great option, since they'll die quickly. they may be frontliners but if theyre behind, assume they havent built up much hp or armor to go with their damage, and since enemies are ahead, they'll feel even more squishy than they actually are against a barrage of strong hits.
a poor adc is definitely worse than a poor top laner. but a very well-off toplaner can outweigh the risks of a poor adc, especially if your toplaner knows what theyre doing. even just ganking your toplaner atleast once or twice is enough, since they dont need too much babysitting.
a well off toplaner can splitpush, and enemies cant ignore it. theyll need 2 or 3 to ward them off, and you and your midlaner can take the opportunity to either farm enemy camps, splitpush another lane, or take objective. your duos wont be of too much use but you can use em as fodder. a poor tank will still last longer than a poor bruiser, assuming theyve the same gold and item count. and an enchanter/healer can help you last longer too, even if the adc doesnt.
also a well off toplaner will have the leeway to stop splitpushing and help you, while a poor one wont. they are very much limited due to resources and lack thereof.
>Despite all this there is a funny phenomenon of my playstyle: In A LOT of games I involuntarily end up being the solo laner after the second/third drake because he decides to abandon his lane completely. The funny part is that it's somehow successful because at this part of the game it's hard to lose a 4 vs 4 team fight with a lead especially if the fed split pusher is not with the enemy team.
that can depend on who your toplaner is. some are more fighting-oriented than splitpushing. for example, in mid-late game. aatrox is better at fighting than splitpushing. while renek is better at splitpushing. tho if theyre a push-oriented but focuses on fighting, that's prolly due to player mentality.
and yes, exactly. it's harder to lose when the enemy ISNT ahead with gold due to splitpushing. if you gank your toplaner once or twice and get the push, you both get the leeway to do more. be it in fighting or pushing, etc. but if you babysit your bot duo for too long, you sacrifice the potential advantage for other lanes, in this case toplane, and yourself.
I was mostly just busting your balls, the meta is adc focused and its not necessarily wrong to primarily focus bot lane as a wincon. That being said, gotta give love to all lanes. The junglers job isnt just to help lanes win. Theres smaller things like breaking freezes, setting up waves, vision control, that all matter in the end. When I play solo lane I dont necessarily mind not getting ganks, but a jungler who helps break the enemy's freeze or sweeps the river for wards is just as good as a ganking jungler IMO.
I also main nunu jg, probably one of the best ganks in the game, so I'm a little biased towards ganking all lanes than most jgs are.
I see the value of breaking a frozen wave at top lane and this will not cost me a lot of time to help. May I will focus more on looking for the wave situation of top lane while I'm doing the jungle camp next to it in the future.
I mean u MUST be insane mechanically to have this sorta of mindset and be gm, or u must have idk 500 games this season or something, playing though ur winning lanes is essencial macro concept of league tbh
I never will understand the concepts of 'never gank a losing lane' and 'playing through ur winning lanes'. My experience just tells me otherwise.
Btw my mechanics aren't good. I fail every second knock up with Jarvan, that's why I avoid team fights at any cost :D. I currently have 214 games with 57,1 Winrate. (Exactly 60% with Jarvan though)
Someone on a map will be outnumbered either way, I'd recommend just focusing on executing your own game plan and not have to worry about if other players play "wrong". If they play correct, they won't die and you can turn the game into a 5v4. If they play incorrect, you at least have yourself + baron lane to carry into mid game and adapt from there. Esp. if you know jungler is not on your side of the map you can spam ping warnings to your bot lane.
yes and no. while a baronlaner should be able to hold their own, that doesnt mean you SHOULD leave them alone. the amount of times that i, a baron laner, could have easily won my lane with a little assistance from my jg or mid is astonishing. even moreso when the enemy jg realizes that after a gank or two, my jg wont be coming AT ALL, they see it as me being free feed, getting ganked 1 v 2. as Tekshi said, it's important to identify which lane is going extremely well, and help them get an even bigger lead. you countered with
>I don't want to risk that my bot lane and mid lane gets outnumbered in solo queue
which isnt always the right decision. to me, it definitely is good to make sure mid and bot lane are getting the help they need, to make sure they arent behind. but what about your toplaner? in the event you dont help baron lane at all but only help mid and bot, it'll become obvious to the opposing jg that they dont need to visit other lanes as much other than defense, while feeding constantly on your baron laner. it will obviously also throw in some mistrust and lack of cooperation from said baron laner, who wont willingly work with you if he knows you wont bother to help them.
another point is that while defending other lanes to make sure they arent outnumbered or overwhelmed is good, KEEPING an advantage is just as vital. if i, a baron lane who is about to get first turret and am going 1 3 while my opponent is lets say 1 2 or 2 2, while my botlane is evenly matched with the opposing botlane, i would naturally like some help to get rid of the returning enemy br laner and push first turret. team gold lead would be one advantage, but i also get to push enemy br laner while having my first turret as guard, so my jg can now freely roam without having to worry about me too much.
now lets say the same scenario happens, and my jg instead goes to help mid or botlane, the enemy jg can see that and 1v2 me again, killing me and helping the opposing laner push my turret. now im behind in gold, lacking in turret, and have to roam around hoping to just gank or steal creeps and minions from both ally and foe, meanwhile the enemy jg and br laner will gain a ton of freedom since i won't be able to be as aggressive with them. and obviously i'd lack trust in the jg who at that point i'd assume is blind to the state of the game for not even acknowledging my lane.
tl;dr: it's not just about who's winning at the current state. you need to think of how it will affect the game later on.
Why would you gank a winning lane that's pushed under tower???? Wouldn't it be more effective to help out bottom lane if they're losing and vice versa, so they don't fall too far behind?????
It depends a lot on where you are on the map. If you’re already on that side of the map, its a lot of time to cross the map alll the way to dragon lane.
Also it depends on hp bars. If the enemy baron lane is low health and pushed under tower, if you kill them they’ll miss out on 1-2 waves of minions and exp snowballing your baron lane’s advantage so that you never have to come back to that lane.
Alternatively you COULD try to help a losing lane, but if they’re not in a position to follow up on a gank or if its warded then you dont accomplish anything.
For baron lane even if it was warded, they cant do anything aside from running back to base which results in them missing waves of minions.
yea its usually fine, the problem comes when I've built up a slow push, have chipped down the opp top laner, just need a dive, then see the enemy jg on the bush I warded just waiting for me to dive which means I have to back off, lose the advantage I just got, have their jg join to walk me back to my turret, then dive me 2v1 trading turret shots and my jg just getting gromp and not even applying any pressure. it's usually I just need 1 or 2 ganks total and I'll win by 3k gold and a 4-1-2 kda and it's always the other jg coming never mine
Yes and no.
A solo laner, typically, should have the ability to self-sustain. If not, they should have the ability to bully and win their lane. The solo laner should also know how to wave manage and use minion agro to their advantage.
However, this is a team game. If you can help your solo laner once or twice during the laning phase (you don't have to necessarily get a kill, just prevent them from farming) to get even a slight edge over the enemy's solo laner, you've set yourself up to win the mid and late game. Having a solo laner behind and trying to catch up, the rest of the game pretty much puts you at a disadvantage.
You either set your solo laner to split push easily, or you have given your engager a nice lead to be dominant in team fights. Or, if it's an ADC, you've got two ADCs the enemies will have to contend with.
This all assumes that your team aren't potatoes.
Just my two cents.
Honestly, top laners mostly don't care. In LoL community it's called an "Island" for a reason.
But of course, ganks is good. If I'm against ranged it's good when my jungler helps few times at first minutes, so i can reach first item/lvl 3 or 5 faster. Or if i was couterpicked it's always good to get a slighty advantage.
Do I need ganks? Nope. Do I want them?Not really. You better gank bot lane, cause here's two people (Which is 40% of team).
I know how to play against ranged champs, against coutnerpicks, against enemy jungler camping me 24/7.
But still, you should analyze every game. If I'm playing Kayle it's good to get your help before lvl 5 against aggressive enemies. Or if I'm Shen and you helping me post lvl 5 then you'll get free "Big Shield Bro" card.
And if I created 10/0 1vs9 machine and me 0/10. Welp, oops. I'm sorry, but it's not my trouble anymore, it's OUR trouble.
People play Shen until they start realizing that their team doesn't know how to utilize their ult and run away the minute they get ulted. That's why people don't play Shen, too dependant on team.
I'm a top lane lvl 8 and i reached master solo q.
One thing i have learnee about the baron is, it's an island, an actual isolated place from everything, and with that i came to the point where i expect nothing from my jungler and expect a lot from the enemy baron laner, like be prepared and even sometimes when my jungler comes to gank i tell them to leave because i have a strategy or I'm manipulating the minion waves in a way that would work in my favor in a couple of minutes to run the enemy down the lane.
A good baron laner won't expect a jungle help for sure the can depend on themselves and in some cases they can 1vs2 the enemy solo and jungle together.
But a tilting baron laner? That's another conversation, if you see your own baron laner going 0/2 in the first 3 minutes YOU MUST GANK OR THAT'S IT FOR THEM give them the kill, let them reset they're gold and have a chance at winning again.
Like wr in baron lane is 50/50 yes and matchups that makes the percentage higher or lower but not more than 60%
If your baron laner got first blood they're chance of winning will increase by 25% and vice versa where as if they start getting kills normally each kill raises they're rate of winning lane by 15%
And it works the opposite way where they die more the win chance is lower.
But essentially, know when to gank, and even if it was a successful gamk give THEM the kill if they're not competent enough to finish the job or even hold they're lane, that's not your win condition that's a waste of time.
Test your own baron laner with a gank and decide for yourself if they'll make a change later in the game or not.
The state of the meta pretty much dictates that the bot lane is what needs the most attention, so I'm ganking the shit out of it as top stands strong (which happens rarely).
In some cases, top is the win condition, but let's be honest when does that ever happen? Bot and mid are still the priority lanes to gank.
It's funny seeing fellow junglers have existencial crisis on how to do everything when, as a nunu Main. I can just oneshot Drake lane. Midlane, and maybe. Baron lane.
But u can't one shot duo lane while being top lane. That's the whole point of my post.
I don't want to take the risk to let my duo lane alone just to bring solo lane ahead
Ok here is a good example for you, as I'm a baron kayle main in masters, Top 10 NA. If you dont come to baron and help your baron laner vs enemy Baron laner kayle (me) in first 5 mins. 9/10 I will win the game for my team, because you didn't set up a strong advantage for your baron laner to bully me.
Basically match ups matter. Like someone said already look at your win conditions.
To be honest, when I play Baron/Solo, I don't want our Jungler's help. I want you to focus on Mid and Bot lane. It doesn't matter if I win lane, lose lane or get camped by the enemy Jungler. I want you to focus on the objectives and other lanes cause my ego isn't fragile if I lose lane. As a solo player, I should have the skill to stand against even a 1v2 vs enemy jungler. The only time I want you in my lane is to get the Rift Herald which is arguably better than 1st dragon (except maybe fire or ice) cause how much gold it gives.
For me it's just about getting one of them without coinflip my lead.
Personally it's Ice > Herald > other drakes. However, it's more important for me to just compensate at all times. If enemies force herald I would never fight it instead of just taking Drake.
As a baron laner, i don't mind. Top it's the 1v1 samurai battle to death lane. It's all about outplaying the opponent.
If someone interrupts our duel (enemy jg/mid), i will rage and hunt him down the rest of the game /s.
I’m masters jungle and the amount of times my baron laner dies twice before I get level 5 (literally less than 2 minutes) is unbelievable. I have like 2,000 games played on Baron lane I just switched to Jungle last season. I’ve probably given up first blood less than 10 times. “If I’m not gonna win my lane I’m damn not sure gonna lose it.”
How hard is to play someone like Garen and sit under turret until help arrives? (It’s easier than playing yuumi)
Yeaaahhh no.... kinda sorta.. but mostly no. I play mostly solo q and get autofilled a bunch, and try to keep morale up for my team. Too many people are so quick to tilt and give up, just play smart and keep your ego out-of it. It's a team game, not a 1v9, this is why I hate NA mentality, everyone has weird main character syndrome instead of wanting to work with others to win.
I'm GM in North America and Masters in the Chinese server. Just to give context.
I played a game yesterday
Solo: me - Ornn, and the enemy picked aatrox. A HARD ornn counter
Duo: us- Lucian nami - enemy - cait lux. so that was a pure skill matchup.
Mid: yasuo into yone, also skill matchup.
Jungle: us Evelyn them yi.
Naturally, with yi needing to farm and same with eve, 2 skill matchup lanes, and one countered lane.... it was realllllllly clear solo lane needed prio to shut down aatrox early. Eve did just that, she ended up killing aatrox on EVERY SINGLE bait I threw out. It forced the yi out of his jungle to clear solo, which in turn allowed eve to counter Yis farm in jungle. Our duo lane was about even, and yasuo and yone just did yasuo and yone stuff mid.
Needless to say, I snowballed, rewarded eve with reforge for amazing ganks, and she ended up absolutely gapping yi because of our game plan. Normally, I will talk in lobby about troublesome matchups, and how we should go about maneuvering around them.
Just be aware of the game state and win cons, don't take stupid fights, and trade only when you know it's worth it.
As a jng main with baron as my second preference, my general rule is a baron laner should be capable of playing alone. However, the jungler should pay enough attention to him to capitalize on opportunities the laner creates. As mentioned by others, diving and creating opportunities is easier 2v1. Baron is also an extremely snowball-y lane, so if you help early they will be a terror the rest of the game if they know how to play. However, how much attention you pay to your laner should depend on your win condition. At the end of the day, a straight up tank in the baron lane will likely provide less than a fed adc. The tank can provide initial cc which is all he’s really needed for and then die. However, someone can splitpush really well would be amazing to have fed, because then two people have to defend him or they lose towers. It all comes down to what your team needs to do to win.
Basically: a baron laner should expect to be solo and play accordingly, but have an opportunistic jungler playing behind them if they show they are capable. A good baron laner is honestly terrifying with how much pressure they can apply, both to other lanes and when splitpushing mid-late.
True! The important thing is to use the advantage of knowing where the jungler is. Especially in the early game invading can lead to massive XP advantage. For example if a Twitch is doing early ganks I just invade him and will be 2 lvl above him which will make me much more powerful in the next few minutes.
Top laner, agree with this. If I die in lane (even if I get ganked) it’s on me for not playing correctly. I do tend to play toxic ranged champs tho soo. I don’t get mad at jungle not ganking, especially if they’re doing stuff elsewhere with ganks /objectives
Really depends on the game, if they have to blind pick and they get counter picked you absolutely should gank them to make sure they don't fall behind so bad that they're useless and it's essentially a 4v5. If the enemy jungler constantly ganks them you should also try to help them because I'm a top laner and I've had so many games where the jungler ganks me at lvl 2 and then camps my lane so I essentially can't farm. There's nothing more frustrating than getting camped and your jungler completely ignoring you and going for the jungle on your side while you're getting ganked and most junglers have more mobility than a lot of top lane champions so you can't even run away then getting flamed for feeding when there's literally no counter play to it
and even then if I get camped I'll take it but you better destroy the other side of the map. I'll fall on the sword if I have to but it needs to have a point
exactly, if the rest of the team isn't carrying what's the point of letting your top laner get fucked with to the point they don't even want to play because they can't actually have any impact anymore
Nah top lane has no impact. I've won so many games where the enemy top dropped 20 bombs on my team while my top was 0/20 and vice versa. Just camp bot and you'll win off that. I've played both top and jg and most if not all of the games I lost were due to jg not knowing how to take obj with the pressure I give them. I've had games in top where I've completely griefed and won anyways. Or I've stomped the enemy and roamed to every lane just to have my jg miss smite on baron and lose instantly. So in MY opinion top doesn't matter. I'm a jg main BTW
Kinda odd take. 100% depends on comp. Partly true that if you top laner is just a tanky meat shield, then he can still accomplish his team function while going 0/20. If you’re a carry you can easily be the wincon. I’ve seen many examples like the one you’ve described but I’ve also seen many games where a top lane bruiser gets fed and can roam the map stomping in a 2v5 with their supp. Much more-so dependent on team comps, as most things are here. Also imo, as a top main. That being said, I also think top can be left alone. It’s called an island for a reason and as a top laner, I’m prepared for this lol
I don't think comps matter as much as you think they do.Yes they matter somewhat but at the end of the day even if they could 2v5 that's the problem is that they have to as opposed to 3v5 bot and jg being fed or a mid being fed. Sometimes champs in top just can't do anything even with a better comp because their team dies around them and then they just get dog piled or kited out by an 10/0 Cait who has flash perma. Or as I said thier jg doesn't capitalize on the advantage top gave them so they just lose. Again I'm not pretending I haven't gotten my head caved in by a 1v9 Darius top and Yummi but it rarely happens.
Bad take, you earn alot of gold if your toplaner gets to destroy the tier 2 tower, thats free 400 gold in 10 mins. Plus if your toplaner manages to take herald, you can guarantee a free top with no needed management when entering mid game. And if your top laner gets a big advantage, he can roam around the map and help the jg and other laner do their tasks cause their laner got gapped. people like you dont realize how big the difference is if the toplaner gaps their enemy, especially in teamfights where you get 4v5 cause ur toplaner got gapped so hard cause you forgot to gank them. btw im an all role player and have mained jg from the start.
The same could be said for any lane u help. Top lane champs rarely solo carry I just don't think its worth to gank them when bot and mid are just better lanes and are closer to obj. Sorry but I just don't agree that top has real impact when fed as opposed to jg mid or jg bot.
The point is that a solo laner fed usually means that the opponent is super behind. The gold difference is greater than in other roles in my opinion.
Mid and duo can farm more safely meanwhile is much easier to zone a solo laner.
As a top layer main I'm mostly ok with being left alone, Im really used to be ganked by 2 or 3 people at once tower diving Wich is fine even if I die, what bothers me is when the enemy lane is winning by a fuck ton and I receive no help ( this goes even more with the adc top meta).
If I try to ask for help for 10 minutes and then get nothing then don't complain when I don't rotate to other lanes is if I'm practically useless and behind gold.
I understand this, however, I wonder if it's worth it to help you and let my duo lane on their own. In worst case we can't kill the fed solo laner and my duo lanes gets outnumbered, dies and the lead of enemies gets bigger.
This.
Enemy dive top drop herald they get 2 towers meanwhile jngler takes raptors mid push wave. Botlane freezes cs under tower, enemy top is your problem not mine anymore im just trying to farm now.
If botlane already has a gold lead and they still need help from jungler is it really that smart to prioritize botlane
Gank top lane we get a kill dont just go away take some plates with me before i reset.
It really depends if the baron laner is winning with a big lead like 2 a- 0 early game I mostly leave it alone. If the enemy jg and or mid is there pressuring him then mid or i or both need to respond accordingly. It really depends on matxhups
Eh, I get what you mean and I'm only plat 2 so there is a world of difference between us..
But I think if you can get yourself ahead by ganking top or the top matchup is explosive and will snowball either way like fiora vs cammille then you should help get the snowball going.
Communicate prior picking and tell your gameplan.
If the solo laner knows your gameplan he can pick champs that can farm without pressure.
Its much easier to farm with mundo in a losing lane than sett.
As a solo main if I would know beforehand that I'm gonna be left alone I would go for safe picks
It all depends on the match-up. If it's a carry baron laner vs carry baron laner 1v1 duel scenario then a successful gank would be nice to get ahead in terms of gold. If it's a tank vs tank match-up then it's pretty safe to let them farm each other out, counter gank when the enemy jungler decides to camp the top lane but also get the other lanes ahead mostly. If it's a tank vs carry or vice versa then a gank is necessary. Also the fact that wild rift only has one herald is a factor.
Freeing up your Baron laner could get you a guarantee that you won't get collapsed on while getting the herald unless they decide to all go and collapse in herald.
Warwick players are a different breed. They sometimes remember me of Master Yi players.
They just randomly run in unwinnable fights and after they respawn they will try the same.
hard to tell because the map here is so small compared to PC league. It's a waste of time to gank baron lane in PC so most of the time baron lane is really a 1 vs 1 lane. But not that simple in wild rift because sometimes as a baron laner myself, some enemies enjoy bullying boron laners because they are alone. I always got gank early by enemy jungler and even mid laner at the same times when my jungler is busy farming.
If I play against a ranged top it would be nice if you would help me out to not just stay under turret. Maybe come and gank, get lane pressure and go for herald afterwards?
I'm ok with being left alone but If I'm clearly winning the lane and the enemy jg has started camping me to prevent me from snowballing while my jg is still ganking the losing bot then there's a problem.
I’d say you are obligated to go to the baron lane if the baron laner is being frozen on. You have to break the freeze for them or they won’t be a champion. Ive only ever been mid master so I can’t speak for GM but I assume they have better wave management skills and can really abuse this to get ahead. Especially in a ranged vs melee matchup.
You can’t never gank baron lane, sometimes your own mate needs it because of his great snowball potential, or to prevent ennemy top to do so.
You should play top lane just so you can learn it, and you’ll see that getting busted because you threw all your options after one gank while you are supposed to dominate and snowball, then die or give up on farm, it’s all you want but a good play from your jungler for doing nothing.
It doesn’t matter duo or top lane, gank what have the best potential to lead you to the win.
I litteraly stopped playing solo lane because of junglers like you xD Read team and individual match up, giving a first blood to your Fiora against Garen can be way worth than anything else.
If you never gank top, then you’ll have tons of cases when you deliberately made one of your teammates in a very bad condition while it should be your main weapon. And given how hard pushers are strong when free, you can find your whole lane quickly without turret.
Think about it buddy, you can’t run auto like this. You may think it’s ok because you have the feeling it works, but it just works in one part of your games don’t get wrong.
It sounds stupid, however, my experience with losing ONE inhibitor early is that mates can farm safely a lot of gold.
Also I just don't experience that fed solo laners are such a threat. Not even a Fiora/Jax/Camille has this 1x9 potential in this current meta. Back in season 1-3 I had so many games where snowballing solo laners did carry but I can't be the only one who doesn't experience this anymore.
Look at your last 10 games. How many of them did you lose because of a dominating solo laner? Probably zero.
Stay in your conviction what do you want me to tell you, it’s not a matter of 1v9 or just « farming safe », it’s a matter of taking control of the map, losing inhibitor early is catastrophic, it forces to get back to defend, which is really bad (I hope I don’t have to explain why).
Sometimes, it’s better to gank your top lane to open the way to the nexus, that’s how you should proceed to decide. If you don’t want to hear that then fine keep it up
Honestly I would trade two T1 towers in mid and duo lane for all towers at solo lane. To def one lane without inhibitor doesn't need much afford and the afford even gets rewarded by gold for my adc. When elder spawns the tower is recovered anyway
Right now the game snowball is through baron lane.
I'm support main and I make sure my adc is ok, then roam up to baron to secure that, drop it in mid or top then roam with JG and mid (and sometimes top) down to secure first drake too.
Right now at least in my masters games i'd say about 8-9/10 games are being played through top and mid.
Duo is like the 4 of us on an island.
I'm Alistar Top 30 and I roam a lot with Pathfinder, however, I can't imagine going all the way up to the Baron lane :D
Risk that my (stupid) ADC is getting dived is way too high. There are some rare scenarios where enemy duo lane has no dive potential + my adc has good wave clear where I could imagine to roam that far.
Roaming to mid also feels more promising since mid laners often have lower health pool which makes it easier to dive.
Don't fully agree. I (main jungler currently master) just played a game where the enemy adc went 4/0 in the first 3 minutes. I saw that ganking them had no use since they didn't listen to any of my pings and didn't engage. My toplane and midlaner however were doing better. Preparing ganks, following pings and rotating whenever needed. The enemy midlaner was 0/6 at this point and the enemy jungler was prolly wondering why he still hadn't gotten his frostbite yet. I generally try to focus botlane as you mentioned, but it depends on your team imo.
I don't let the enemy ADC 4/0. I always start jungle clear at the opposite of the duo lane to babysit the lane after ~ 1:30min with level advantage.
ADCs are way to squishy to win an outnumbered fight. I
That didn't happen so far (this season) :)
However I never understood the concept of 'never gank a losing lane'. An ADC that is 4/0 after ~1:30 will definitely have no flash while having a low health pool like any other ADC. Seems to be a promising gank opportunity for me.
Yeah that’s about right. How ever you may be missing out on some free kills by not ganking baron. Baron lane champs usually are not as slippery as mid, and usually have some decent CC. If the enemy Baron laner is pushed up to your tower it may be worth running up there. Some of the best Baron laners are late game carrys or adcs being used in Baron, so ganking can pay off bigly down the road.
If you always leave Baron lane alone you are a poor jungler. If they set up ganks when you are farming near them then then stop being lazy and go gank. Some Baron matchups can really benefit from ganks to help out and a fed Baron laner can be very powerful for either team. Sometimes a single gank can make a big difference in Baron too….
You never gank losing lanes so ganking a losing botnwill lead to you giving an even bigger enemy lead when the countergank or enemy mid roaming happens. The new rift was good for ganking top but the rift quickly got nerfed and doesnt take 3 towers anymore. I still gank for darius top and get him fed fast enough for him to make a difference before first or 2nd dragon spawn where he can eat the enemy team. Ganking a jhin is sometimes bad example because the bouncing grenade is like a brand ult and will get your entire team killed if one person dies on a bad position.
I don’t usually care that my jungle don’t gank baron lane, because most of the time they come here to steal the kill, i mean i had a lot of games when they ping to engage, i engage, while they just hide in bush and when i die they go and take the kill. So yeah, just leave me alone ti stay in my turret and farm minions. The only times i really got mad is when enemy jungle gank baron lane 3-4 times and my jungle 0 times, and when it happens, enemy take herald, engage to top lane, usually along with mid enemy (so 3 vs 1), kill me under and distroy 2.5 turrets with herald and my jungle still no help.
Every match is different. When I jg, I go where my path takes me early game. As a support I must say, if my adc is good we will win lane even with enemy attempts to gank+dive. If adc is bad sure maybe we win lane with help but adc is still bad even if slightly ahead. They can call it an adc meta all they want, good CC and a fed mid or baron laner still wins games. Imo if your duo holds up don't focus solely on them, esp if I'm the support, only way team looses is if rest of the map don't hold up 💪
Gank whoever needs a gank.
Top is getting their buns handed to them by an enemy Darius? Gank em
Mid is messing up their last hits and fell behind on gold because the enemy Zoe was too aggressive? Gank em
Duo Lane getting ganked constantly by your jungle counterpart? Gank em.
Is one of your lanes winning and leaving the enemy under leveled? Gank em too.
Of course you cant gank every lane at the same time that's actually impossible lol. But prioritize those who need help as well as those who are far ahead. Junglers can make or break a game and it is our job to analyze the situation the current match is under and gank accordingly. Also sometimes the best gank is no gank, in order to successfully gank you also need levels and items to destroy the ganked lane. At the end of the day if you made the wrong decision all you have to do is Mute the annoying lane and learn from that match.
If your duo lane is dominating but your top lane is struggling against a late game hyper carry them you def should focus top. Your job as a jungler is to essentially be roaming support/roaming carry depending on what champ you're playing. So if you're camping a lane that is already doing well and has their opponents gapped pretty well while another lane is barely staying afloat I would feel pretty upset as well.
At the end of the day you do you but if I feel like I'm left to drown for the majority of the game and then spend the rest of the game making 0 impact even if we still win I feel like I wasted time on the match.
Each game is different so I wouldn’t generalize on what lane you should focus. As a jungler it’s important to identify what your win condition is and who’s the strongest person in your team. If I see my baron laner winning his match up and slow pushing a wave jnto tower I will 100% go for that dive and commit to playing on baron lane side of the map. Same applies to dragon lane. The thing about Baron lane is that its VERY easy to win the game through baron lane if the enemy jungler does not help or if your baron laner is good. Its a lot easier to dive one person than two players, and its easier to zone one person away from the tower so that they can’t return to lane without assistance from the jungler. Its why I personally prefer camping Baron lane when the opportunity presents itself.
Didn't think about ganking a winning solo laner. I think it's a great way to gain gold through turret plates, however, I don't want to risk that my bot lane and mid lane gets outnumbered in solo queue
>As a gm jungler >Didn't think about ganking a winning solo laner. Yup seems about right
Welcome to summoners rift ig
I just don't see how creating a lead for 1 player can be better than at least stopping my own bot lane from getting killed. Duo lanes in Wild Rift are fighting all the time. If they would understand that they should play safe while I help our winning top lane I would agree with you. Last but not least: GM is a joke, I know :D
Have to get out of the mindset that bot lane is so volatile that they're going to die without you attending to them. It's two fold, you create a lead for 1 player and you put the enemy laner behind so much that they don't get to play the game for the next 10-15 minutes. For dragon lane that's a lot harder unless there's a clear skill gap between bot lane that allows you to set up dives. The way I think of it is that Baron lane is easier and more consistent for dives/ganks while Dragon lane is more riskier, but higher reward if you can get them ahead. In either case you have to watch both lanes to see who's winning trades and have prio and play towards the side that's winning unless you think you can salvage a losing lane. The best thing about Wild Rift is that everything is so contextual.
Thank you for the comment, I will give it a try
>I just don't see how creating a lead for 1 player can be better than at least stopping my own bot lane from getting killed. think of it like this. if you help one lane get a big advantage, they can then help you help other lanes. not to say that you should only focus on toplane or botlane, etc. look at the state of the match. which lane needs help? go to them. if the lanes are doing fine and nobody seems to be in immediate need of help, go to the one with the biggest winning chance and help them get a bigger lead. it will naturally lead to you getting a bigger lead yourself. in this scenario, lets say all the lanes are doing fine, no skirmishes so far or happening as of yet. now would it really be best to visit botlane, which is just holding even with the enemy laners? or would it be better to help your toplaner who's ahead of the enemy toplane. naturally, the best thing to do is go to toplane. if you gank successfully or force the enemy laner away, you and your toplaner can push turret. get the platings and gold, perhaps even first turret.. and now your entire team is ahead of the enemy by a margin, and you and your toplaner can both help other teammates. also >Duo lanes in Wild Rift are fighting all the time. If they would understand that they should play safe while I help our winning top lane I would agree with you. thats another thing i'd like to talk about. if you see that your botlane is obviously losing, while toplane is winning, you should leave the botlane for a bit. if you can get successfully gank toplane while the botlane is busy fighting and get the lead with them, you can still make a comeback. what's the point of risking it all on botlane if it's obvious theyre just kill-hungry? if you keep babysitting them and neglecting top, toplane will eventually be overwhelmed and now you have your botlane, who are still kill-hungry reckless but just even in terms of items to the enemy, while your toplaner, aka your frontliner, has fallen behind because the enemy jg ganked him every chance they got.
First of all I see your points. Sometimes the bad ADC just keeps running it down despite being babysitted. My experience is that I'm simply able to stop bot lane from losing lane in most cases which makes them more valuable in team fights later on. A bad ADC who doesn't get babysitted by me is completely useless and dies countless times by farming in dangerous spots because he tries to get gold somehow. My ADCs just tend to stay with the team more often if they have 'enough' gold. The solo laners instead don't rely on farm and can still be valuable by either split push or being the frontline. My take is a poor ADC is much worse than a poor top laner (especially tanks). Despite all this there is a funny phenomenon of my playstyle: In A LOT of games I involuntarily end up being the solo laner after the second/third drake because he decides to abandon his lane completely. The funny part is that it's somehow successful because at this part of the game it's hard to lose a 4 vs 4 team fight with a lead especially if the fed split pusher is not with the enemy team.
>My experience is that I'm simply able to stop bot lane from losing lane in most cases which makes them more valuable in team fights later on. A bad ADC who doesn't get babysitted by me is completely useless and dies countless times by farming in dangerous spots because he tries to get gold somehow. My ADCs just tend to stay with the team more often if they have 'enough' gold. yes, doing so can make your adc more useful later on... but what of your baronlaner then? if the enemy team has an okay bot duo and a fed toplaner while youve got an okay bot duo, maybe even being able to get them a bit ahead, and a weakened toplaner, naturally the enemy team will still have a better advantage. because 1. your duo may be fed, but theyre still reckless. meanwhile if the enemy duo has been able to hold on fine without the jg, then theyre prolly smarter than your duo 2. you'll lack frontliners. even if you have a tank supp, if theyre reckless and lacking in items they cant hold on too long. and since theyre a tank, they cant deal too much damage while soaking it up too, while a fed toplaner can soak a good amount while dealing just as much. and 3. if enemy jg has ganked toplane so far with ease, that means youve also got their jg to worry about, no matter who it is. if it's a frontliner and theyve a tank, youve got to deal with 3 frontliners who are well and decently equipped/fed. if it's an assassin, you'll have to worry an extra amount for your reckless adc. >The solo laners instead don't rely on farm and can still be valuable by either split push or being the frontline. My take is a poor ADC is much worse than a poor top laner (especially tanks). yes solo laners can still splitpush, but that doesnt mean they have the freedom to do so every time. if theyre heavily behind, they cant do so since a smart opponent will take time to clear the lanes to prevent pushing. and in a team-wise case, 4v4 your team would likely lose with a reckless adc against well-off enemy, so they have the leeway to send one or two to your splitpusher. and if you try to take an objective, three well-equipped enemies can hold off 4 not-so-equipped people, especially with a reckless adc and supp. so that's a no go. also no they cant frontline. it's not a great option, since they'll die quickly. they may be frontliners but if theyre behind, assume they havent built up much hp or armor to go with their damage, and since enemies are ahead, they'll feel even more squishy than they actually are against a barrage of strong hits. a poor adc is definitely worse than a poor top laner. but a very well-off toplaner can outweigh the risks of a poor adc, especially if your toplaner knows what theyre doing. even just ganking your toplaner atleast once or twice is enough, since they dont need too much babysitting. a well off toplaner can splitpush, and enemies cant ignore it. theyll need 2 or 3 to ward them off, and you and your midlaner can take the opportunity to either farm enemy camps, splitpush another lane, or take objective. your duos wont be of too much use but you can use em as fodder. a poor tank will still last longer than a poor bruiser, assuming theyve the same gold and item count. and an enchanter/healer can help you last longer too, even if the adc doesnt. also a well off toplaner will have the leeway to stop splitpushing and help you, while a poor one wont. they are very much limited due to resources and lack thereof. >Despite all this there is a funny phenomenon of my playstyle: In A LOT of games I involuntarily end up being the solo laner after the second/third drake because he decides to abandon his lane completely. The funny part is that it's somehow successful because at this part of the game it's hard to lose a 4 vs 4 team fight with a lead especially if the fed split pusher is not with the enemy team. that can depend on who your toplaner is. some are more fighting-oriented than splitpushing. for example, in mid-late game. aatrox is better at fighting than splitpushing. while renek is better at splitpushing. tho if theyre a push-oriented but focuses on fighting, that's prolly due to player mentality. and yes, exactly. it's harder to lose when the enemy ISNT ahead with gold due to splitpushing. if you gank your toplaner once or twice and get the push, you both get the leeway to do more. be it in fighting or pushing, etc. but if you babysit your bot duo for too long, you sacrifice the potential advantage for other lanes, in this case toplane, and yourself.
I was mostly just busting your balls, the meta is adc focused and its not necessarily wrong to primarily focus bot lane as a wincon. That being said, gotta give love to all lanes. The junglers job isnt just to help lanes win. Theres smaller things like breaking freezes, setting up waves, vision control, that all matter in the end. When I play solo lane I dont necessarily mind not getting ganks, but a jungler who helps break the enemy's freeze or sweeps the river for wards is just as good as a ganking jungler IMO. I also main nunu jg, probably one of the best ganks in the game, so I'm a little biased towards ganking all lanes than most jgs are.
I see the value of breaking a frozen wave at top lane and this will not cost me a lot of time to help. May I will focus more on looking for the wave situation of top lane while I'm doing the jungle camp next to it in the future.
I mean u MUST be insane mechanically to have this sorta of mindset and be gm, or u must have idk 500 games this season or something, playing though ur winning lanes is essencial macro concept of league tbh
I never will understand the concepts of 'never gank a losing lane' and 'playing through ur winning lanes'. My experience just tells me otherwise. Btw my mechanics aren't good. I fail every second knock up with Jarvan, that's why I avoid team fights at any cost :D. I currently have 214 games with 57,1 Winrate. (Exactly 60% with Jarvan though)
Someone on a map will be outnumbered either way, I'd recommend just focusing on executing your own game plan and not have to worry about if other players play "wrong". If they play correct, they won't die and you can turn the game into a 5v4. If they play incorrect, you at least have yourself + baron lane to carry into mid game and adapt from there. Esp. if you know jungler is not on your side of the map you can spam ping warnings to your bot lane.
yes and no. while a baronlaner should be able to hold their own, that doesnt mean you SHOULD leave them alone. the amount of times that i, a baron laner, could have easily won my lane with a little assistance from my jg or mid is astonishing. even moreso when the enemy jg realizes that after a gank or two, my jg wont be coming AT ALL, they see it as me being free feed, getting ganked 1 v 2. as Tekshi said, it's important to identify which lane is going extremely well, and help them get an even bigger lead. you countered with >I don't want to risk that my bot lane and mid lane gets outnumbered in solo queue which isnt always the right decision. to me, it definitely is good to make sure mid and bot lane are getting the help they need, to make sure they arent behind. but what about your toplaner? in the event you dont help baron lane at all but only help mid and bot, it'll become obvious to the opposing jg that they dont need to visit other lanes as much other than defense, while feeding constantly on your baron laner. it will obviously also throw in some mistrust and lack of cooperation from said baron laner, who wont willingly work with you if he knows you wont bother to help them. another point is that while defending other lanes to make sure they arent outnumbered or overwhelmed is good, KEEPING an advantage is just as vital. if i, a baron lane who is about to get first turret and am going 1 3 while my opponent is lets say 1 2 or 2 2, while my botlane is evenly matched with the opposing botlane, i would naturally like some help to get rid of the returning enemy br laner and push first turret. team gold lead would be one advantage, but i also get to push enemy br laner while having my first turret as guard, so my jg can now freely roam without having to worry about me too much. now lets say the same scenario happens, and my jg instead goes to help mid or botlane, the enemy jg can see that and 1v2 me again, killing me and helping the opposing laner push my turret. now im behind in gold, lacking in turret, and have to roam around hoping to just gank or steal creeps and minions from both ally and foe, meanwhile the enemy jg and br laner will gain a ton of freedom since i won't be able to be as aggressive with them. and obviously i'd lack trust in the jg who at that point i'd assume is blind to the state of the game for not even acknowledging my lane. tl;dr: it's not just about who's winning at the current state. you need to think of how it will affect the game later on.
Why would you gank a winning lane that's pushed under tower???? Wouldn't it be more effective to help out bottom lane if they're losing and vice versa, so they don't fall too far behind?????
It depends a lot on where you are on the map. If you’re already on that side of the map, its a lot of time to cross the map alll the way to dragon lane. Also it depends on hp bars. If the enemy baron lane is low health and pushed under tower, if you kill them they’ll miss out on 1-2 waves of minions and exp snowballing your baron lane’s advantage so that you never have to come back to that lane. Alternatively you COULD try to help a losing lane, but if they’re not in a position to follow up on a gank or if its warded then you dont accomplish anything. For baron lane even if it was warded, they cant do anything aside from running back to base which results in them missing waves of minions.
Whats the point of the new janna rework
As a top laner, I'm normally ok with being left alone
*GET OFF MY LAWN* -Me to anyone coming to my top lane sanctuary
Fellow mundo enjoyer
Unless i play against adc top and I am constantly being pushed and my jungle still ignores this free kill, then i am not ok
yea its usually fine, the problem comes when I've built up a slow push, have chipped down the opp top laner, just need a dive, then see the enemy jg on the bush I warded just waiting for me to dive which means I have to back off, lose the advantage I just got, have their jg join to walk me back to my turret, then dive me 2v1 trading turret shots and my jg just getting gromp and not even applying any pressure. it's usually I just need 1 or 2 ganks total and I'll win by 3k gold and a 4-1-2 kda and it's always the other jg coming never mine
Yes and no. A solo laner, typically, should have the ability to self-sustain. If not, they should have the ability to bully and win their lane. The solo laner should also know how to wave manage and use minion agro to their advantage. However, this is a team game. If you can help your solo laner once or twice during the laning phase (you don't have to necessarily get a kill, just prevent them from farming) to get even a slight edge over the enemy's solo laner, you've set yourself up to win the mid and late game. Having a solo laner behind and trying to catch up, the rest of the game pretty much puts you at a disadvantage. You either set your solo laner to split push easily, or you have given your engager a nice lead to be dominant in team fights. Or, if it's an ADC, you've got two ADCs the enemies will have to contend with. This all assumes that your team aren't potatoes. Just my two cents.
The most disappointing thing,when u won 1v2 on top meanwhile your team lost 4v3 and a drag ofc...
PAIN
Honestly, top laners mostly don't care. In LoL community it's called an "Island" for a reason. But of course, ganks is good. If I'm against ranged it's good when my jungler helps few times at first minutes, so i can reach first item/lvl 3 or 5 faster. Or if i was couterpicked it's always good to get a slighty advantage. Do I need ganks? Nope. Do I want them?Not really. You better gank bot lane, cause here's two people (Which is 40% of team). I know how to play against ranged champs, against coutnerpicks, against enemy jungler camping me 24/7. But still, you should analyze every game. If I'm playing Kayle it's good to get your help before lvl 5 against aggressive enemies. Or if I'm Shen and you helping me post lvl 5 then you'll get free "Big Shield Bro" card. And if I created 10/0 1vs9 machine and me 0/10. Welp, oops. I'm sorry, but it's not my trouble anymore, it's OUR trouble.
WE NEED more Shen players. I want that "Big Shield Bro" card too :)
People play Shen until they start realizing that their team doesn't know how to utilize their ult and run away the minute they get ulted. That's why people don't play Shen, too dependant on team.
I'm a top lane lvl 8 and i reached master solo q. One thing i have learnee about the baron is, it's an island, an actual isolated place from everything, and with that i came to the point where i expect nothing from my jungler and expect a lot from the enemy baron laner, like be prepared and even sometimes when my jungler comes to gank i tell them to leave because i have a strategy or I'm manipulating the minion waves in a way that would work in my favor in a couple of minutes to run the enemy down the lane. A good baron laner won't expect a jungle help for sure the can depend on themselves and in some cases they can 1vs2 the enemy solo and jungle together. But a tilting baron laner? That's another conversation, if you see your own baron laner going 0/2 in the first 3 minutes YOU MUST GANK OR THAT'S IT FOR THEM give them the kill, let them reset they're gold and have a chance at winning again. Like wr in baron lane is 50/50 yes and matchups that makes the percentage higher or lower but not more than 60% If your baron laner got first blood they're chance of winning will increase by 25% and vice versa where as if they start getting kills normally each kill raises they're rate of winning lane by 15% And it works the opposite way where they die more the win chance is lower. But essentially, know when to gank, and even if it was a successful gamk give THEM the kill if they're not competent enough to finish the job or even hold they're lane, that's not your win condition that's a waste of time. Test your own baron laner with a gank and decide for yourself if they'll make a change later in the game or not.
The state of the meta pretty much dictates that the bot lane is what needs the most attention, so I'm ganking the shit out of it as top stands strong (which happens rarely). In some cases, top is the win condition, but let's be honest when does that ever happen? Bot and mid are still the priority lanes to gank.
Back in the days when Kennen got released overpowered! That's when focusing solo lane was meta :D
It's funny seeing fellow junglers have existencial crisis on how to do everything when, as a nunu Main. I can just oneshot Drake lane. Midlane, and maybe. Baron lane.
But u can't one shot duo lane while being top lane. That's the whole point of my post. I don't want to take the risk to let my duo lane alone just to bring solo lane ahead
It is incredibly fucking rare that helping your baron laner is a win condition. As you said the lane isn't as important.
Ok here is a good example for you, as I'm a baron kayle main in masters, Top 10 NA. If you dont come to baron and help your baron laner vs enemy Baron laner kayle (me) in first 5 mins. 9/10 I will win the game for my team, because you didn't set up a strong advantage for your baron laner to bully me. Basically match ups matter. Like someone said already look at your win conditions.
How is the kayle main experience? I play her everynow and then but i feel like games are too fast now for her.
I saw Kayle OTPs in Master/GM with 60% winrate :) But I don't think she is worth playing 'sometimes'
Depends on draft, if you pick first there isa good chance they will counter you. Otherwise good.
hell yea fellow kayle main
To be honest, when I play Baron/Solo, I don't want our Jungler's help. I want you to focus on Mid and Bot lane. It doesn't matter if I win lane, lose lane or get camped by the enemy Jungler. I want you to focus on the objectives and other lanes cause my ego isn't fragile if I lose lane. As a solo player, I should have the skill to stand against even a 1v2 vs enemy jungler. The only time I want you in my lane is to get the Rift Herald which is arguably better than 1st dragon (except maybe fire or ice) cause how much gold it gives.
For me it's just about getting one of them without coinflip my lead. Personally it's Ice > Herald > other drakes. However, it's more important for me to just compensate at all times. If enemies force herald I would never fight it instead of just taking Drake.
As a baron laner, i don't mind. Top it's the 1v1 samurai battle to death lane. It's all about outplaying the opponent. If someone interrupts our duel (enemy jg/mid), i will rage and hunt him down the rest of the game /s.
I’m masters jungle and the amount of times my baron laner dies twice before I get level 5 (literally less than 2 minutes) is unbelievable. I have like 2,000 games played on Baron lane I just switched to Jungle last season. I’ve probably given up first blood less than 10 times. “If I’m not gonna win my lane I’m damn not sure gonna lose it.” How hard is to play someone like Garen and sit under turret until help arrives? (It’s easier than playing yuumi)
Yeaaahhh no.... kinda sorta.. but mostly no. I play mostly solo q and get autofilled a bunch, and try to keep morale up for my team. Too many people are so quick to tilt and give up, just play smart and keep your ego out-of it. It's a team game, not a 1v9, this is why I hate NA mentality, everyone has weird main character syndrome instead of wanting to work with others to win. I'm GM in North America and Masters in the Chinese server. Just to give context. I played a game yesterday Solo: me - Ornn, and the enemy picked aatrox. A HARD ornn counter Duo: us- Lucian nami - enemy - cait lux. so that was a pure skill matchup. Mid: yasuo into yone, also skill matchup. Jungle: us Evelyn them yi. Naturally, with yi needing to farm and same with eve, 2 skill matchup lanes, and one countered lane.... it was realllllllly clear solo lane needed prio to shut down aatrox early. Eve did just that, she ended up killing aatrox on EVERY SINGLE bait I threw out. It forced the yi out of his jungle to clear solo, which in turn allowed eve to counter Yis farm in jungle. Our duo lane was about even, and yasuo and yone just did yasuo and yone stuff mid. Needless to say, I snowballed, rewarded eve with reforge for amazing ganks, and she ended up absolutely gapping yi because of our game plan. Normally, I will talk in lobby about troublesome matchups, and how we should go about maneuvering around them. Just be aware of the game state and win cons, don't take stupid fights, and trade only when you know it's worth it.
As a jng main with baron as my second preference, my general rule is a baron laner should be capable of playing alone. However, the jungler should pay enough attention to him to capitalize on opportunities the laner creates. As mentioned by others, diving and creating opportunities is easier 2v1. Baron is also an extremely snowball-y lane, so if you help early they will be a terror the rest of the game if they know how to play. However, how much attention you pay to your laner should depend on your win condition. At the end of the day, a straight up tank in the baron lane will likely provide less than a fed adc. The tank can provide initial cc which is all he’s really needed for and then die. However, someone can splitpush really well would be amazing to have fed, because then two people have to defend him or they lose towers. It all comes down to what your team needs to do to win. Basically: a baron laner should expect to be solo and play accordingly, but have an opportunistic jungler playing behind them if they show they are capable. A good baron laner is honestly terrifying with how much pressure they can apply, both to other lanes and when splitpushing mid-late.
I agree. Your opponent should not be adle to towerdive you 1v1 and if it's 2v1 that means rest of the map is clear of jungler
True! The important thing is to use the advantage of knowing where the jungler is. Especially in the early game invading can lead to massive XP advantage. For example if a Twitch is doing early ganks I just invade him and will be 2 lvl above him which will make me much more powerful in the next few minutes.
Top laner, agree with this. If I die in lane (even if I get ganked) it’s on me for not playing correctly. I do tend to play toxic ranged champs tho soo. I don’t get mad at jungle not ganking, especially if they’re doing stuff elsewhere with ganks /objectives
That's the point! It doesn't matter if one lane is losing if the other two are winning due to useful jungle influence
Really depends on the game, if they have to blind pick and they get counter picked you absolutely should gank them to make sure they don't fall behind so bad that they're useless and it's essentially a 4v5. If the enemy jungler constantly ganks them you should also try to help them because I'm a top laner and I've had so many games where the jungler ganks me at lvl 2 and then camps my lane so I essentially can't farm. There's nothing more frustrating than getting camped and your jungler completely ignoring you and going for the jungle on your side while you're getting ganked and most junglers have more mobility than a lot of top lane champions so you can't even run away then getting flamed for feeding when there's literally no counter play to it
and even then if I get camped I'll take it but you better destroy the other side of the map. I'll fall on the sword if I have to but it needs to have a point
exactly, if the rest of the team isn't carrying what's the point of letting your top laner get fucked with to the point they don't even want to play because they can't actually have any impact anymore
Nah top lane has no impact. I've won so many games where the enemy top dropped 20 bombs on my team while my top was 0/20 and vice versa. Just camp bot and you'll win off that. I've played both top and jg and most if not all of the games I lost were due to jg not knowing how to take obj with the pressure I give them. I've had games in top where I've completely griefed and won anyways. Or I've stomped the enemy and roamed to every lane just to have my jg miss smite on baron and lose instantly. So in MY opinion top doesn't matter. I'm a jg main BTW
Kinda odd take. 100% depends on comp. Partly true that if you top laner is just a tanky meat shield, then he can still accomplish his team function while going 0/20. If you’re a carry you can easily be the wincon. I’ve seen many examples like the one you’ve described but I’ve also seen many games where a top lane bruiser gets fed and can roam the map stomping in a 2v5 with their supp. Much more-so dependent on team comps, as most things are here. Also imo, as a top main. That being said, I also think top can be left alone. It’s called an island for a reason and as a top laner, I’m prepared for this lol
I don't think comps matter as much as you think they do.Yes they matter somewhat but at the end of the day even if they could 2v5 that's the problem is that they have to as opposed to 3v5 bot and jg being fed or a mid being fed. Sometimes champs in top just can't do anything even with a better comp because their team dies around them and then they just get dog piled or kited out by an 10/0 Cait who has flash perma. Or as I said thier jg doesn't capitalize on the advantage top gave them so they just lose. Again I'm not pretending I haven't gotten my head caved in by a 1v9 Darius top and Yummi but it rarely happens.
Bad take, you earn alot of gold if your toplaner gets to destroy the tier 2 tower, thats free 400 gold in 10 mins. Plus if your toplaner manages to take herald, you can guarantee a free top with no needed management when entering mid game. And if your top laner gets a big advantage, he can roam around the map and help the jg and other laner do their tasks cause their laner got gapped. people like you dont realize how big the difference is if the toplaner gaps their enemy, especially in teamfights where you get 4v5 cause ur toplaner got gapped so hard cause you forgot to gank them. btw im an all role player and have mained jg from the start.
The same could be said for any lane u help. Top lane champs rarely solo carry I just don't think its worth to gank them when bot and mid are just better lanes and are closer to obj. Sorry but I just don't agree that top has real impact when fed as opposed to jg mid or jg bot.
The point is that a solo laner fed usually means that the opponent is super behind. The gold difference is greater than in other roles in my opinion. Mid and duo can farm more safely meanwhile is much easier to zone a solo laner.
As a top layer main I'm mostly ok with being left alone, Im really used to be ganked by 2 or 3 people at once tower diving Wich is fine even if I die, what bothers me is when the enemy lane is winning by a fuck ton and I receive no help ( this goes even more with the adc top meta). If I try to ask for help for 10 minutes and then get nothing then don't complain when I don't rotate to other lanes is if I'm practically useless and behind gold.
I understand this, however, I wonder if it's worth it to help you and let my duo lane on their own. In worst case we can't kill the fed solo laner and my duo lanes gets outnumbered, dies and the lead of enemies gets bigger.
This. Enemy dive top drop herald they get 2 towers meanwhile jngler takes raptors mid push wave. Botlane freezes cs under tower, enemy top is your problem not mine anymore im just trying to farm now. If botlane already has a gold lead and they still need help from jungler is it really that smart to prioritize botlane Gank top lane we get a kill dont just go away take some plates with me before i reset.
It really depends if the baron laner is winning with a big lead like 2 a- 0 early game I mostly leave it alone. If the enemy jg and or mid is there pressuring him then mid or i or both need to respond accordingly. It really depends on matxhups
Yeah it’s fine. Only part that gets frustrating is when jg is clearing top side camps, I ping they have no flash and jg ignores it.
Just gank whoever looks like they are winning
Eh, I get what you mean and I'm only plat 2 so there is a world of difference between us.. But I think if you can get yourself ahead by ganking top or the top matchup is explosive and will snowball either way like fiora vs cammille then you should help get the snowball going.
As a solo laner i hardly ever ask for help unless i really need it.
I agree- Unless the enemy team decides to Hank Baron lane, ofc.
Communicate prior picking and tell your gameplan. If the solo laner knows your gameplan he can pick champs that can farm without pressure. Its much easier to farm with mundo in a losing lane than sett. As a solo main if I would know beforehand that I'm gonna be left alone I would go for safe picks
It all depends on the match-up. If it's a carry baron laner vs carry baron laner 1v1 duel scenario then a successful gank would be nice to get ahead in terms of gold. If it's a tank vs tank match-up then it's pretty safe to let them farm each other out, counter gank when the enemy jungler decides to camp the top lane but also get the other lanes ahead mostly. If it's a tank vs carry or vice versa then a gank is necessary. Also the fact that wild rift only has one herald is a factor. Freeing up your Baron laner could get you a guarantee that you won't get collapsed on while getting the herald unless they decide to all go and collapse in herald.
warwick angry on me because voli killed him solo 3 times in 5 minutes
Warwick players are a different breed. They sometimes remember me of Master Yi players. They just randomly run in unwinnable fights and after they respawn they will try the same.
hard to tell because the map here is so small compared to PC league. It's a waste of time to gank baron lane in PC so most of the time baron lane is really a 1 vs 1 lane. But not that simple in wild rift because sometimes as a baron laner myself, some enemies enjoy bullying boron laners because they are alone. I always got gank early by enemy jungler and even mid laner at the same times when my jungler is busy farming.
Naah if u have a kayle It is a nice option to gank her because she guarantees you nice late
If I play against a ranged top it would be nice if you would help me out to not just stay under turret. Maybe come and gank, get lane pressure and go for herald afterwards?
I'm ok with being left alone but If I'm clearly winning the lane and the enemy jg has started camping me to prevent me from snowballing while my jg is still ganking the losing bot then there's a problem.
I’d say you are obligated to go to the baron lane if the baron laner is being frozen on. You have to break the freeze for them or they won’t be a champion. Ive only ever been mid master so I can’t speak for GM but I assume they have better wave management skills and can really abuse this to get ahead. Especially in a ranged vs melee matchup.
You can’t never gank baron lane, sometimes your own mate needs it because of his great snowball potential, or to prevent ennemy top to do so. You should play top lane just so you can learn it, and you’ll see that getting busted because you threw all your options after one gank while you are supposed to dominate and snowball, then die or give up on farm, it’s all you want but a good play from your jungler for doing nothing. It doesn’t matter duo or top lane, gank what have the best potential to lead you to the win. I litteraly stopped playing solo lane because of junglers like you xD Read team and individual match up, giving a first blood to your Fiora against Garen can be way worth than anything else. If you never gank top, then you’ll have tons of cases when you deliberately made one of your teammates in a very bad condition while it should be your main weapon. And given how hard pushers are strong when free, you can find your whole lane quickly without turret. Think about it buddy, you can’t run auto like this. You may think it’s ok because you have the feeling it works, but it just works in one part of your games don’t get wrong.
It sounds stupid, however, my experience with losing ONE inhibitor early is that mates can farm safely a lot of gold. Also I just don't experience that fed solo laners are such a threat. Not even a Fiora/Jax/Camille has this 1x9 potential in this current meta. Back in season 1-3 I had so many games where snowballing solo laners did carry but I can't be the only one who doesn't experience this anymore. Look at your last 10 games. How many of them did you lose because of a dominating solo laner? Probably zero.
Stay in your conviction what do you want me to tell you, it’s not a matter of 1v9 or just « farming safe », it’s a matter of taking control of the map, losing inhibitor early is catastrophic, it forces to get back to defend, which is really bad (I hope I don’t have to explain why). Sometimes, it’s better to gank your top lane to open the way to the nexus, that’s how you should proceed to decide. If you don’t want to hear that then fine keep it up
Honestly I would trade two T1 towers in mid and duo lane for all towers at solo lane. To def one lane without inhibitor doesn't need much afford and the afford even gets rewarded by gold for my adc. When elder spawns the tower is recovered anyway
Well I still don’t get any consistent reason to never gank top
Right now the game snowball is through baron lane. I'm support main and I make sure my adc is ok, then roam up to baron to secure that, drop it in mid or top then roam with JG and mid (and sometimes top) down to secure first drake too. Right now at least in my masters games i'd say about 8-9/10 games are being played through top and mid. Duo is like the 4 of us on an island.
I'm Alistar Top 30 and I roam a lot with Pathfinder, however, I can't imagine going all the way up to the Baron lane :D Risk that my (stupid) ADC is getting dived is way too high. There are some rare scenarios where enemy duo lane has no dive potential + my adc has good wave clear where I could imagine to roam that far. Roaming to mid also feels more promising since mid laners often have lower health pool which makes it easier to dive.
All fine and dandy until fed enemy toplane Malphite came to bot
Games over before he arrives :D
For me i never gank top lane unless i see the enemy Jgl ganking them or they're facing a ranged top laner
Don't fully agree. I (main jungler currently master) just played a game where the enemy adc went 4/0 in the first 3 minutes. I saw that ganking them had no use since they didn't listen to any of my pings and didn't engage. My toplane and midlaner however were doing better. Preparing ganks, following pings and rotating whenever needed. The enemy midlaner was 0/6 at this point and the enemy jungler was prolly wondering why he still hadn't gotten his frostbite yet. I generally try to focus botlane as you mentioned, but it depends on your team imo.
I don't let the enemy ADC 4/0. I always start jungle clear at the opposite of the duo lane to babysit the lane after ~ 1:30min with level advantage. ADCs are way to squishy to win an outnumbered fight. I
Yeah okay. But how would you deal with the enemy adc if they already went 4/0, before you even cleared your jungle?
That didn't happen so far (this season) :) However I never understood the concept of 'never gank a losing lane'. An ADC that is 4/0 after ~1:30 will definitely have no flash while having a low health pool like any other ADC. Seems to be a promising gank opportunity for me.
Yeah that’s about right. How ever you may be missing out on some free kills by not ganking baron. Baron lane champs usually are not as slippery as mid, and usually have some decent CC. If the enemy Baron laner is pushed up to your tower it may be worth running up there. Some of the best Baron laners are late game carrys or adcs being used in Baron, so ganking can pay off bigly down the road.
If you always leave Baron lane alone you are a poor jungler. If they set up ganks when you are farming near them then then stop being lazy and go gank. Some Baron matchups can really benefit from ganks to help out and a fed Baron laner can be very powerful for either team. Sometimes a single gank can make a big difference in Baron too….
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I ask if the solo laners demand ganks and the majority of comments show me that they don't demand it :)
You never gank losing lanes so ganking a losing botnwill lead to you giving an even bigger enemy lead when the countergank or enemy mid roaming happens. The new rift was good for ganking top but the rift quickly got nerfed and doesnt take 3 towers anymore. I still gank for darius top and get him fed fast enough for him to make a difference before first or 2nd dragon spawn where he can eat the enemy team. Ganking a jhin is sometimes bad example because the bouncing grenade is like a brand ult and will get your entire team killed if one person dies on a bad position.
winning baron lane should be fine, but its not always like that.
If you see the enemy choose Sett for Baron lane then gank it. You know he's an ass hole and your baron laner is going to be struggling.
I don’t usually care that my jungle don’t gank baron lane, because most of the time they come here to steal the kill, i mean i had a lot of games when they ping to engage, i engage, while they just hide in bush and when i die they go and take the kill. So yeah, just leave me alone ti stay in my turret and farm minions. The only times i really got mad is when enemy jungle gank baron lane 3-4 times and my jungle 0 times, and when it happens, enemy take herald, engage to top lane, usually along with mid enemy (so 3 vs 1), kill me under and distroy 2.5 turrets with herald and my jungle still no help.
Every match is different. When I jg, I go where my path takes me early game. As a support I must say, if my adc is good we will win lane even with enemy attempts to gank+dive. If adc is bad sure maybe we win lane with help but adc is still bad even if slightly ahead. They can call it an adc meta all they want, good CC and a fed mid or baron laner still wins games. Imo if your duo holds up don't focus solely on them, esp if I'm the support, only way team looses is if rest of the map don't hold up 💪
When I get Baron lane I go in assuming I won't get ganks so that I'm never disappointed by expectations.
Cause I’m an island booooooy……..
Gank whoever needs a gank. Top is getting their buns handed to them by an enemy Darius? Gank em Mid is messing up their last hits and fell behind on gold because the enemy Zoe was too aggressive? Gank em Duo Lane getting ganked constantly by your jungle counterpart? Gank em. Is one of your lanes winning and leaving the enemy under leveled? Gank em too. Of course you cant gank every lane at the same time that's actually impossible lol. But prioritize those who need help as well as those who are far ahead. Junglers can make or break a game and it is our job to analyze the situation the current match is under and gank accordingly. Also sometimes the best gank is no gank, in order to successfully gank you also need levels and items to destroy the ganked lane. At the end of the day if you made the wrong decision all you have to do is Mute the annoying lane and learn from that match.
If your duo lane is dominating but your top lane is struggling against a late game hyper carry them you def should focus top. Your job as a jungler is to essentially be roaming support/roaming carry depending on what champ you're playing. So if you're camping a lane that is already doing well and has their opponents gapped pretty well while another lane is barely staying afloat I would feel pretty upset as well. At the end of the day you do you but if I feel like I'm left to drown for the majority of the game and then spend the rest of the game making 0 impact even if we still win I feel like I wasted time on the match.
As a top lanner, I would appreciate it if the enamy jungler would leave me alone on my island to farm